August 9, 2019 • 41 mins
From the late 1970s to the 1980s, the US Government paid for intelligence officers to undergo weeklong training sessions at a remote place called the Monroe Institute. Training sessions themselves aren't particularly abnormal -- but these officers weren't learning new languages, the latest news about satellites and so on. Instead, the Institute was using hypnosis to teach them astral projection, ESP and clairvoyance. The news went public via a declassified CIA document released in 1984, but questions remain: Was this all a waste of money? Or was there something else to the story?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Welcome back
(00:24):
to the show. My name is Matt nol Is on
an adventure they called me Ben. When you're joined as
always with our super producer Paul Mission Control decade. Most importantly,
you are you. You are here, and that makes this
stuff they don't want you to know. Uh mission control
quick check in thumbs up, thumbs down. Oh wow, it's
a thumbs up with a with an on and onward
(00:46):
and upward motion. So someone's excited about the weekend. It
is Friday as we record this. How about you, Matt
and your big plans. Oh, I'm so excited to mow
my lawn and clean the house and do things that
I don't always get to do. You're not going to
storm Area fifty one. I thought about it and find
them aliens. Uh No, and probably not just a shout
(01:11):
out here. There's a there's a I guess a petition
going around right now as we are recording this that
was just popping up in the news. CNN, Times Magazine,
everybody's talking about it. Um, just a heads up. If
you're gonna storm a secret government facility, don't give him
a giant heads up that they're gonna be thousands of
you coming. Well, maybe it is smart to give them
(01:33):
heads up so you don't get shot. But at the
same time, if there are extraterrestrial bodies kept somewhere on
Groom Lake, they're not going to be there when you
when you get there. It's a very good point. Uh.
Let me perhaps comment on this with an anecdote from
a friend of mine who attempted to visit area of
fifty one with his brother once on a road trip,
(01:54):
and interest of anonymity, I'm not going to give their names.
This is, however, a true story. So they wanted to
on a great trip out west see how close they
could get to Area fifty one. The places surrounded by
signs that do notify you know, do notify you of
when something is considered trespassing, and also notify you that
(02:18):
it is legal for Uncle Sam to use lethal force
on anyone past that point. Uh, there will be no
legal repercussions, There will be no class action lawsuit, there
will be no help for you if you cross that
line and get popped. So this guy's experience went the
following way. They had taken and believe his brother's truck,
(02:42):
and they had driven up as close as they could
get and they kind of got out, uh, in front
of one of those signs. But as they're getting out,
they see a glint in the distance that they would
later recognize as a sniper rifle. Uh. They were also Uh,
they were also approached by very aggressive military vehicles driving
(03:08):
at them. Oh. Actually wait, no, they didn't manage to
get out of the truck. I think they stopped the
truck they saw the glint, and then the vehicles came
after them, so they turned around and started high tail
it out. Uh, they got rammed, they got fish tailed. Uh.
And then you know, like what I mean by fish
tailed is one of the military vehicles purposely swiped the
(03:30):
back end of their truck such that they almost lost
control of the vehicle. So it was exactly exactly so Matt. Uh.
So they escaped with a lesson learned, and I'm sure
they will never visit again. But if you are one
of those people who genuinely thinks that you will storm
(03:52):
area fifty one with thousands and thousands of others. Or
if you are one of those people who thinks you
will storm and die in the process, uh, and you survived,
let us know how it goes. Today's episode is about
another nefarious activity of Uncle Sam. Internationally speaking, the Central
(04:13):
Intelligence Agency is one of the United states most well known,
and some would say infamous, branches of government. It was
created on Paul's birthday on September. Although he is not
this old, it was a ninety seven when it was
created and this uh. The official duty of the CIA
is to collect, analyze, evaluate, and disseminate foreign intelligence to
(04:37):
assist the President and senior US government policymakers in making
decisions relating to national security. That's a pretty Legit seems
pretty good, seems like something that we would want to
do as a country, as a a state government. Right
on the offset, this doesn't sound too egregious, doesn't. After all?
Governments need to know what's happening in the world around us,
(04:59):
especially when it may have an effect on domestic affairs,
and these days, in the globally interconnected society in which
we live, or maybe survive is a better word, these
sorts of foreign affairs nearly always have some sort of
measurable effect on domestic affairs. However, if you have checked
out any episode of this show ever, ever, ever in
(05:22):
the past, then you know that the CIA has been
involved in multitudes of less than above the board activities
over the past six decades. We're talking assassinations, corporate corruption
like overthrowing a country to help the bottom line of
US based corporation, covert activities not approved by Congress, and
(05:44):
frankly bizarre experiments. Today's episode is about that last one.
So here are the facts. The CIA has done tons
and tons and tons of stuff. Not all of these
activities seemed directly related to foreign intelligence and national security.
They're kind of, um, a to C thinking rather than
(06:08):
a to be thinking, Yeah, how do we get to
that end goal? Sometimes that end goal is how do
we make a person who is being interrogated more susceptible
to telling us all the information we want? As in
MK Ultra, that's that's the CIA mind control program that
we made I believe two episodes about recently. Check those
(06:28):
out and can also find some videos on that that
we've covered. Um, how do we take out a large
number of people, perhaps in a way that wouldn't indicate
traditional weaponry like traditional munitions. There you go, here's some
biological warfare for you, um, perhaps finding a way to
kill someone without letting anyone else know that the CIA
(06:50):
was involved, or the United States or anyone else. In fact,
um unorthodox assassinations, poisoning wet suits, exploding cigars like we
talked about on the of the Fidel Castro cube episode,
or how about just biological warfare experiments on the citizens
of the United States, which is a true story. There
(07:10):
are various accounts of the Central Intelligence Agency dispersing contaminants
or substances meant to impersonate contaminants over large swath's population
centers here in the US, more or less to see
what would happen. The CIA has also experimented with hypnosis,
(07:31):
and honestly, in comparison to some of their other research avenues,
this is pretty tame. This is sort of a slow
news day for the CIA, one would think, at least,
But what what exactly is hypnosis? What do we mean
when we say hypnosis? Nowadays it's widely misunderstood, and this
is due primarily to its depiction in works of fiction.
(07:55):
One film that I Love in Particular is a real
blockbuster when it came out. It's a cabinet dr caligary
in which a somnambulist or a sleepwalker is turned into
a monster sort of a a predecessor of what we
call the Manchurian candidate today, and through the power of hypnosis,
(08:17):
the epononymous villain of the film creates this killing machine.
That's not how hypnosis works. That's at least that's not
what the science shows us. Hypnosis is not a process
wherein someone can be turned into a killing machine, forced
to harm themselves, or really even forced to do something
that they wouldn't have done normally, you know what I mean,
(08:42):
sort of like the reason why being drunk is not
a good excuse for someone's behavior. It's not something you
would never have done. It's just something that you would
do when you are less inhibited or less aware of
the consequences of your actions. Hypnosis is also not a
good tool for researching hidden trauma or suppressed memories, because,
(09:03):
as long time listeners know, you can implant false memories
and people very very very easily. So what is hypnosis instead?
What what do we mean when we say that the
Cia was experimenting with real hypnosis. What are we talking about. Well,
it's really a trance state that you can put somebody in,
(09:24):
and you know what, it is characterized by extreme suggestibility,
and that's where you bring in being able to plant
memories into somebody by you know, just leading someone down
a path of suggestion. Right. It also has to do
with relaxation heightened imagination. But it isn't exactly the way
because when you hear that, maybe you think about sleep
(09:46):
or that sleepy feeling that you'll get sometimes when you're
a bit out of it, as you might put it,
as I would put it, um, but it isn't really
like sleep because the subject, the person who is under hypnosis,
is alert the entire time that they are undergoing hypnosis.
It's um a lot of times compared to day dreaming,
or at least the feeling of losing yourself in a
(10:09):
book or a movie, or maybe that that kind of
feeling you get when you come to alertness again after
you've been driving in a car for a long time
and you realize, oh wow, I've gone three or four
miles and I can't recall any of the exits or
any of the things that just occurred, and have to
reiterate this. You are fully conscious when you are under hypnosis,
(10:30):
but you do tune out all of the other stuff
that's occurring around you, all the stimuli. You focus intently
on whatever is at hand, the subject at hand. Uh.
If someone speaking to you and like leading you through hypnosis,
that is the only thing that's occurring. Those those words,
the sounds basically coming towards you. Yeah, think about flow state.
(10:51):
Flow state is when, for new athletes in the audience,
you feel that you are in the zone. Maybe you're
so focused the time seems to slow it. Maybe you
don't hear things the way that you would normally hear them.
If you're outside of the flow state. In the everyday
trance of say Walter Midiesque flight of fancy, or let's
(11:15):
say watching a film that you're very into, an imaginary
world seems somewhat more real. We suspend our disbelief and
this this primarily translates to a work of fiction or unreality,
fully engaging our emotions. That's why people have a cathartic
(11:35):
experience when they see tragedies or when they watch love stories.
These imaginary events can cause you to experience genuine fear, sadness,
or happiness. This is also, by the way, the reason
that jump scares in horror films work. You know that
you're in a theater with maybe eighty or more people,
(11:56):
or you know that you're the only person in your
house but that creepy girl from the ring. Am I right?
Some researchers categorize all of these trances as forms of
self hypnosis. There's a hypnotism expert back in the twentieth
century named Milton Ericson and Ericsson believed that most people
hypnotize themselves on a daily basis. And for those of
(12:19):
us listening who say, oh, well, I am unhypnotize herble,
I've never been in a trance state. If you've ever
been on a road trip for more than about three hours,
I can guarantee that you have entered something like this.
It is the way the human mechanism works. Most psychiatrists
don't focus on this accidental sneak up on your trance state.
(12:42):
They focus on intentional relaxation focusing exercises you know what
I mean, Like breathe deep counter breaths. Imagine that there
is a waterfall or you're slowly floating away from your
body as we count down from ten to one. That, yeah,
(13:02):
it's almost the focused meditation kind of things, or guided meditation,
or a s MR kinds of things. This deep hypnosis
is often compared to that sort of reverie we encounter
between wakefulness and sleep, which is for a lot of people,
the most amazing part of their day. And I would
say that all of this we're discussing right here reminds
(13:24):
me of the feeling you get when you're deeply immersed
in a video game. And I think it's probably almost
more powerful in that respect, because even though your body
is reacting, your fingers are touching some control mechanism, your
entire consciousness is existing in whatever that imaginary world is
(13:46):
um on your screen. However you're experiencing the video game,
especially in a VR setting or something um to, where
all of the external stimuli, especially if you're wearing headphones,
just goes away. Um, that's just what I'm thinking. I'm
hearing all of this, agreed. In conventional hypnosis, we approached
(14:06):
the suggestion of our hypnotists or you know yourself if
you're the hypnotist, as if they were reality. But on
some level we are always aware that this is not
the concrete, you know, baseline reality. It's it's like we're
playing pretend, similar to when you play games as children,
(14:26):
but on a more intense level. And in this particular
mental state, people do feel uninhibited and do feel relaxed.
Presumably this is because you get a bit further away
cognitively from the worries and doubts that usually keep our
actions in check. This all leads to subjects of hypnotism
(14:49):
also being highly suggestible, which is how you can hypnotize
someone and convince them that they had an experience they
just now remember bird right, and then boom, you can
write a book. So and this has been the path
for a lot of unethical therapists, especially in the nineties
and eighties. By the way, this is this is how
(15:11):
stage magicians can get people to do things that are
endearing but not dangerous. However, the CIA did not research
hypnotism to make people squawk like chickens or learn to
chill acts and be laid back a f Instead, they
did this to teach their agents psychic powers. And we'll
(15:34):
get into that right after a word from our sponsor.
Here's where it gets crazy. Yes, that is correct, The
CIA researched psychic powers or extra sensory perception a k a. ESP. Yeah,
(15:56):
it's a lot like something we've discussed on this show before.
Remote viewing, remember this remote viewing them in Project Stargate,
that whole military program from seventy eight, probably seeing the
movie The Menu stare At Goats loosely based on that
or somewhat based on that, And the CIA had this
whole separate program specifically to research potential of remote viewing
(16:19):
and you know, in in this like kind of weird
sci fi way, to unlock those powers of the human mind,
the ones that have been hidden away or that we
forgot about or we just don't realize when we're on
this corporeal plane that we that we have. And they
did not go into this endeavor alone. They partnered out,
they contracted out. They went to a place called the
(16:42):
Monroe Institute. From the late nineteen seventies into the nineteen eighties,
the CIA paid for intelligence officers to go on week
long excursions to an out of the way place called
the Monroe Institute. The Monroe Institute specialized out of body
experiences and astral projection, and Matt you had you had
(17:05):
done a little bit of digging on the namesake of
the Monroe Institute. Correct, Yeah, yeah, I did. There's this
guy named Robert A. Monroe. He is a fascinating subject.
He was an executive for broadcast radio in several different respects,
several different Uh, I don't know. I guess you can
(17:26):
call it stations. He ended up making his own company,
and as part of his company that he created, he
was doing a lot of research into audio and one
thing that just kind of happened to occur. As he's
doing all this research on how audio affects listeners, uh,
other new things we can do with audio? How can
we influence people who are listening? Uh? He stumbled upon
(17:50):
this idea that perhaps through tones, we can influence the
way people experience either other audio or even get someone
to encounter what he would later coin in one of
his books and out of body experience right right in
his book Journeys Out of the Body. Is that correct? Yes? Correct?
(18:13):
And he and far Journeys is another one of his books,
Ultimate Journey, lots of journeys, Journey out of the Body,
that's the that's the big one. Um, it's really I mean,
he's a fascinating character. And if you go to the
Monroe Institute's website, which is m O N R O
E Institute dot org, you can you can actually find
(18:35):
YouTube videos of this man, Bob Monroe as he's called
a lot of times, where he's giving talks. And I
started going down this rabbit hole today with this guy.
He has some kind of I guess what would be
considered out of their ideas about what human consciousness is. Um,
I guess what he's discovered through his explorations of his
(18:57):
own technology and his own techniques. I don't I actually
don't want to describe them in full detail here. I
would just encourage you to listen to some of these,
because if I just told you in a bulleted point
what he believes experience is as consciousness, you would just
probably sigh, roll your eyes and then leave. But I
(19:17):
think after hearing what we're gonna tell you today, then
maybe watching these, your mind might might be a little
more open or susceptible to suggestion. Yeah, and and just
I agree with that, Matt. Just to give everyone a
taste of where we're where we're coming from with this,
let's let's describe Bob's findings not in his own words,
(19:39):
but in an excellent short summary by journalist Caroline Haskins
writing for Motherboard on Vice, she says, human consciousness is
nothing but an intersection of energy planes that forms a
hologram able to travel through space time all one word,
across the universe and into the past, present, and future.
(20:00):
That's the elevator pitch for the nature of consciousness is
seen by the Monroe Institute. There's a lot more to it,
so check it out. I guess before you, before you
make your your final call. Uh. This this was very
out there for some people, but it was also very
promising for others, including people like Army Commander Wayne m McDonald,
(20:25):
who in June was asked to give his commander an
assessment of the psychic services provided by the Monroe Institute.
This was during something called Projects Center Lane. The Monroe
Institute is known for not just Bob's opinions on the
nature of human consciousness and it's uh interactions with what
we call reality, but for the patented technology that he
(20:49):
and his associates have created. They call it hemmy sink
short for hemisphere synchronization, and it uses audio to quote
sync guys. The brain waves of the left and right
sides of the brain. According to the website, this makes
the brain more receptive to hypnosis and all of the
other potential things they believe the human mind can do
(21:13):
while in that state. And you may have heard of
this before a lot of times, it's referred to as
binaural beats. On the Internet. You can find YouTube videos
of purported by neural beats, and generally it has to
do with two different similar but not the same tones
that are being played in stereo into both of your
(21:35):
ears right. And as we established before, audio has tremendous power,
some effects of which are more apparent than others. So
Wayne was asked to provide this assessment after he had
completed the week long psychic program at the institute a
month prior. And this this institute, just for reference, is
(21:58):
located in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia in a
small town called Fabor Favors, about thirty miles east of Charlotte'sville.
That that probably gives our US audience a rough sense.
For everyone outside of the US, I don't think they
are just a series of names. But if you if
you pop on Google Maps, you can see the point
we're making is this is relatively isolated. So here's the
(22:21):
question what did McDonald say. Well, his report formed the
basis of a twenty nine page Army document that featured
detailed explanations of hypnosis, holograms, and out of body experiences.
The documents placed these phenomena in the context of these
larger ideas of consciousness, energy, spacetime, quantum, sub atomic particles,
(22:48):
the astral projection Ryan of course, astral projection is the
idea that one can uncouple the mind and the body
and send the mind free throughout all sorts of places
and doesn't have to travel through linear time. I do
want to note here that we primarily focus on this
(23:09):
being a CIA activity, but a lot of this was
the CIA and the Army functioning sort of hand and glove. Uh.
They were, they were sharing a lot of research on this.
So McDonald's cites a metaphor penned by Monroe Institute employee
named Melissa Jagger or Yeager in order to illustrate the
(23:29):
nature of hypnosis. The metaphor says that the normal state
of consciousness is kind of like a lamp, and that
means it admits light in a chaotic, incoherent way, but
in which we kind of in a way disagree with
that because it's just more of like an omnipresent single
source of light that goes in all directions. But but
we agree. Yeah, But a hypnotized state of consciousness, by contrast,
(23:54):
would be like a laser beam and thoughts and energy
are as you had said earlier, Matt, describing hypnosis there
like a disciplined stream of light or like a laser.
So when they're doing projects CenTra Lane, when when they're
working on this, the big question here is how they
(24:14):
found candidates? Right? How how did they how did they
get officers to participate in projects Center Lane. Well, the
first thing you gotta do when you're gonna bring someone
on into some kind of hypnosis study and or UM
learning and training technique is to hypnotize them. That's of
(24:36):
course first and foremost, and then UM, after they're under hypnosis,
they would practice UM like reaching this place, this state
of consciousness considered the astral plane, and the whole goal
is to learn foreign languages, like basically be able to
teach yourself things at a faster pace, to enter the matrix,
(24:57):
if you will, in a way, and to also do
this thing that the documents referred to as habit control training,
which you can assume has to do with, you know,
training each of these people who are going to take
part in this to do certain things, to not do
certain things, although the details of that are lost to us.
According to one of the declassified files, two hundred and
(25:20):
fifty one Army intelligence candidates were selected for the first
year of experimentation, and of those candidates, a hundred and
seventeen were initially interviewed under the impression that they were
just taking a survey. Right, McDonald was trying to find
people who are in the middle of the bell curve
regarding credule is um versus skepticism. So people who objected
(25:45):
to military use of what they called psycho energetics categorically
were not considered to be good candidates. And then on
the other side of the spectrum, people who seemed incredibly
gassed and excited about psycho energetics, or people who, by
whatever measure they had the study conducted, considered to be
(26:06):
a cult, fanatics, or mystical zealots were also out of
the running. But for the people who were accepted, they
were they were shipped off on a real weird field trip.
They went to the Monroe Institute and then they would
listen to this heem I sink audio. After this, one
of the institute's research associates would do the guided meditation
(26:27):
that you mentioned earlier, Matt. They would guide intelligence officers
into the astral plane, the psychic space, in which the
Institute maintained that officers could heighten their century experiences, accelerate
their healing, travel into the past or the future, or
even solve real world dilemmas without the restraints of a
(26:48):
physical body. I know, right. Another technique known as remote
viewing was also employed, and this is something that should
be familiar if if you caught our early interview with
the scientists Russell targ or some of our work on
projects stargate. According to a declassified document from eighty two,
(27:10):
which doesn't specifically explicitly mentioned the Army or the Monroe
Institute because they didn't go until the next year, right right.
This This does, however, follow the precise description of remote
viewing as explained by the UH, as explained by the
three doc that does mention Monroe by name. So what
(27:34):
what were they doing exactly? What was their first big milestone?
Test goal. The answer will surprise you, we promise, and
we'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Well,
(27:54):
according to the documents that that we found online, the
goal of all of this remote viewing, all of the
energy that all of these people put in was to
remotely view Mars in the year one million b C.
Basically to find out if there was a human civilization
(28:16):
or another extraterrestrial civilization of intelligent beings that lived on
Mars back then. According to the transcript, and interviewer read
coordinates and verbal cues to a subject, and the subject
claimed to see dust storms, alien structures, and even an
ancient alien race. You can, by the way, you can
(28:39):
see all of the stuff we're describing at CIA dot gov.
Just searching through their reading room and you will. You
will see this written out explicitly. We're not styling on
this north paraphrasing. You heard that it's on the CIA's website.
It's true. So some people did say that they saw something.
(28:59):
You could either, you know, you you can read the
transcript and decide for yourself whether they're just hyper suggestible
and maybe they're just kind of improvising and riffing on
cueues that the research associate or already gave them. But
here's here's one description from subject to certainly saw something.
He says, very toll again, very large people, but they're
(29:22):
they're thin. They look thin because of their height, and
they dressed like, oh hell, it's like it's like a
real light silk, but it's not you know, flowing type
of clothing. It's it's cut to fit their their ancient people.
They're they're dying, it's past their time or age. They're
very philosophic about it. They're looking for a way to survive,
(29:43):
and they just can't. Wow. This is just one example,
to be fair, that is a direct quote, but there
are other examples out there. Was he was he from
Georgia or Alabama? Where where was he from? It maybe
lost to history, It don't know if it's a source,
but sounded like he went through being from maybe four
or five very different places in the course of that description.
(30:06):
You know what I mean. I guess he was a
military brat and moved around a lot. But this is
all real. This all definitely happened, And the big question
is what happened next after they sent these people for
these things? Uh? What did what did they find. What
did the Army in the c i A find with
(30:28):
HEMI Sink technology. Well, there's this guy who was described
as a personal management analyst named Ray Ray Wald Cooder.
He wrote this article for the hem Sinc. Journal. So
they've got an entire journal here. And again the Monroe
Institute was a research arm created through his research and
(30:50):
development efforts through his broadcast company. Okay, so he's reviewing
the Army's uses of HEMI Sink technology, so kind of
so you'd have the Army looking at their technology. Now
they're looking back on how the Army is going to
be using it, and and in this he states that
the Army variously used HEMI Sink technology for stress reduction,
(31:12):
psychological counseling, and enhanced learning abilities for various levels of personnel,
as well as training for people seeking officer level positions.
So really, they truly are, at least in several ways
here attempting to use it like the matrix to teach
people skills as fast as they can and as efficiently
(31:33):
as possible. And Waltcotter wrote also that several intensive Army
military training programs have been conducted using the technology. This
is where it gets this. This is pretty fascinating because
he said these programs demonstrated positive results, which means that
in one or more than one of the fields of
(31:55):
research that they were conducting, this technology hem I sink
was found to be successful. We don't know which fields,
We don't know how successful. We just know that they
felt there was something to it, and as a result,
research continued until when the Defense Appropriations Act directs the
(32:16):
program to be transferred to way for it the CIA,
and the CIA keeps working with this. We're not sure
exactly what they did with it, because we don't know
what did or did not make it into a written report.
But the CIA itself later said remote viewing had not
been proven to work by a psychic mechanism specifically, and
(32:40):
they assured us or assured themselves internally that it had
not been used operationally. Furthermore, the CIA concluded that there
was nothing striking or surprising about its findings after doing
research of their own. M Yeah, so now we're at
(33:03):
another than a fork in the road. Right. Over twenty
million dollars was sunk into this project, of which we're aware,
and to be fair, that is not a huge figure
in comparison to many other strange Army and CIA projects.
But let's remember that the US public footed the bill here,
(33:24):
and this was at a time when people were, as
they are now still in need of education, medical care, food,
and so on. Uh So, is it money well spent?
Was it foolish? Is there more to the story. I
don't know, but maybe you're saying, hey, guys, I i'm um.
I'm a person who learns through experience. I want to
(33:45):
follow in the footsteps of the CIA and Army intelligence
and figure this out for myself. While we have good
news for you friends and neighbors. The Monroe Institute, as
we record, is still operating. It's still around, it is
still selling. It's him I Sink program today. So you
can take a week off yourself and go find out
(34:06):
what all the hubbub is about. Yeah, and there's everything
from many one day programs, or you can jump on
one of their five to six day consciousness programs. And you, guys,
then when Row institutes and kind of in a silly way,
but also in I'm genuinely interested in this about you
could take a class about energy medicine. You can take
(34:30):
a class that's described as event Horizon conscious presence. We
could all probably use a little bit of that nowadays,
or something called animal and interspecies communication. Now that one
I'm into. If I could talk to my dog, like
really know what's going on, that would be huge. That's
(34:51):
my pick, awesome or event horizon, whatever that is. So
let us know your experience with this, if you decide
to engage in this sort of activity, or if you
take a field trip to the Monroe Institute, let us
know if you've been to this or something like this
in the past. We would love to hear your stories.
(35:12):
Most importantly, like all classified projects, this was technically a conspiracy,
not a theory that really spent the money in secret
the Army and then later the CIA. Yet for fringe researchers,
the admitted conspiracy is simply a distraction, sort of a
(35:35):
red herring to throw you off the trail, and they'll
argue that this sort of experimentation continues today. So if
we took a little bit of time to speculate to
engage in some what iffory, let's let's see what would
be the best way to conduct this sort of experimentation
(35:59):
with out the usual legal limitations imposed by domestic and
international law. First, if we throw worlds to the wayside,
you would probably want to set up an institution or
laboratory of some sort in a place that the US
controlled but was not legally obligated towards, so like Diego,
(36:24):
Garcia maybe, or or one of the islands where so
many people have been black bagged in the War on Terror.
And then you would want, of course keep it out
of the news. You would also you would also want
to make sure that you could dope the subjects up
as much as you wanted to see how far into
(36:47):
that state you could get them before there were delatorious
cognitive or physical effects, and then probably just to get
a baseline, you would keep going until if you died.
That's that's the kind of stuff that you will see
fringe researchers arguing is happening now as we record today.
There isn't proof of that, but that is some disturbing speculation,
(37:10):
and just saying that that could happen, which absolutely good
for all we know it could be happening. Now, just
saying that could happen is not the same thing as
saying any of that would result in actual remote viewing,
you know what I mean? Or reproducible astral travel and
so on, and just saying it is completely possible for
the U S and other powerful governments to kidnap people,
(37:33):
take them into a place where ethical constraints do not apply,
and experiment on them. There you go. Or you could just,
I don't know, pump some of that binaural stuff that
Hemi sink stuff into the radio waves and see how
it plays on the public overall. Does it have any
effect on humans while they're driving or while they're listening
(37:56):
to their podcasts? That's a very good Did you guys
notice the the Hemi sink technology happening in your ears
while you're listening to this? You didn't because we weren't
using it. But but wouldn't that be cool if we did?
Wouldn't that be cool if we did? What would happen?
(38:17):
Let us know, and and also let us know what
you think about this idea of Center Lane in general.
Was it a brief, well intentioned dabbling and unorthodox methods
that was rightly discarded when the science just didn't hold
up to scrutiny, or was it something else, something a
little more sinister, something they don't want you to know.
(38:38):
Perfect you can tell us about it on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,
find our favorite part of the show your fellow listeners
on our community page. Here's where it gets crazy. Yeah,
or you can call us where we are one three
three st d w y t K. Leave a message,
tell us about your experience rather than writing it down.
We'll enjoy it. You might get on the air, but
(39:00):
make sure you let us know if you want us
to use your name and or if you want us
to mask your voice or whatever, or you just don't
want it to go on the air. Have we ever
masked anyone's voice for this match? We have. On the
last voicemail episode we had a Royal Canadian Mounted Police
officer call in that we masked his voice. Fantastic. So
maybe even you just want your voice masked for the
(39:22):
look for the aesthetic. Sure, Paul, Paul doesn't mind. No, seriously,
please don't abuse that. And while you're on the internet,
why not drop us a review on iTunes. Every every
review you give us gives it gets us think of
it this way. It gets us a little bit further
away from being black bagged ourselves. So do help us out,
(39:46):
and yes, and it also helps more people find the
show because it moves us up in the rankings on
places like Apple Podcasts, and it is just you know,
if you want other people listen, then why not. By
the way, tell us what you really think. We're not
asking you just to give us a five star review.
We're asking for your opinion. I mean, that would be nice, totally.
We we accept it, but we'll take the other stuff too.
(40:10):
And if none of that quite fills out your dance card,
if there's another way that you prefer to communicate, we
have one more for you. Even in these our modern days,
you can still send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they
(40:47):
Don't Want You to Know is a production of iHeart
Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Welcome back
(00:24):
to the show. My name is Matt nol Is on
an adventure they called me Ben. When you're joined as
always with our super producer Paul Mission Control decade. Most importantly,
you are you. You are here, and that makes this
stuff they don't want you to know. Uh mission control
quick check in thumbs up, thumbs down. Oh wow, it's
a thumbs up with a with an on and onward
(00:46):
and upward motion. So someone's excited about the weekend. It
is Friday as we record this. How about you, Matt
and your big plans. Oh, I'm so excited to mow
my lawn and clean the house and do things that
I don't always get to do. You're not going to
storm Area fifty one. I thought about it and find
them aliens. Uh No, and probably not just a shout
(01:11):
out here. There's a there's a I guess a petition
going around right now as we are recording this that
was just popping up in the news. CNN, Times Magazine,
everybody's talking about it. Um, just a heads up. If
you're gonna storm a secret government facility, don't give him
a giant heads up that they're gonna be thousands of
you coming. Well, maybe it is smart to give them
(01:33):
heads up so you don't get shot. But at the
same time, if there are extraterrestrial bodies kept somewhere on
Groom Lake, they're not going to be there when you
when you get there. It's a very good point. Uh.
Let me perhaps comment on this with an anecdote from
a friend of mine who attempted to visit area of
fifty one with his brother once on a road trip,
(01:54):
and interest of anonymity, I'm not going to give their names.
This is, however, a true story. So they wanted to
on a great trip out west see how close they
could get to Area fifty one. The places surrounded by
signs that do notify you know, do notify you of
when something is considered trespassing, and also notify you that
(02:18):
it is legal for Uncle Sam to use lethal force
on anyone past that point. Uh, there will be no
legal repercussions, There will be no class action lawsuit, there
will be no help for you if you cross that
line and get popped. So this guy's experience went the
following way. They had taken and believe his brother's truck,
(02:42):
and they had driven up as close as they could
get and they kind of got out, uh, in front
of one of those signs. But as they're getting out,
they see a glint in the distance that they would
later recognize as a sniper rifle. Uh. They were also Uh,
they were also approached by very aggressive military vehicles driving
(03:08):
at them. Oh. Actually wait, no, they didn't manage to
get out of the truck. I think they stopped the
truck they saw the glint, and then the vehicles came
after them, so they turned around and started high tail
it out. Uh, they got rammed, they got fish tailed. Uh.
And then you know, like what I mean by fish
tailed is one of the military vehicles purposely swiped the
(03:30):
back end of their truck such that they almost lost
control of the vehicle. So it was exactly exactly so Matt. Uh.
So they escaped with a lesson learned, and I'm sure
they will never visit again. But if you are one
of those people who genuinely thinks that you will storm
(03:52):
area fifty one with thousands and thousands of others. Or
if you are one of those people who thinks you
will storm and die in the process, uh, and you survived,
let us know how it goes. Today's episode is about
another nefarious activity of Uncle Sam. Internationally speaking, the Central
(04:13):
Intelligence Agency is one of the United states most well known,
and some would say infamous, branches of government. It was
created on Paul's birthday on September. Although he is not
this old, it was a ninety seven when it was
created and this uh. The official duty of the CIA
is to collect, analyze, evaluate, and disseminate foreign intelligence to
(04:37):
assist the President and senior US government policymakers in making
decisions relating to national security. That's a pretty Legit seems
pretty good, seems like something that we would want to
do as a country, as a a state government. Right
on the offset, this doesn't sound too egregious, doesn't. After all?
Governments need to know what's happening in the world around us,
(04:59):
especially when it may have an effect on domestic affairs,
and these days, in the globally interconnected society in which
we live, or maybe survive is a better word, these
sorts of foreign affairs nearly always have some sort of
measurable effect on domestic affairs. However, if you have checked
out any episode of this show ever, ever, ever in
(05:22):
the past, then you know that the CIA has been
involved in multitudes of less than above the board activities
over the past six decades. We're talking assassinations, corporate corruption
like overthrowing a country to help the bottom line of
US based corporation, covert activities not approved by Congress, and
(05:44):
frankly bizarre experiments. Today's episode is about that last one.
So here are the facts. The CIA has done tons
and tons and tons of stuff. Not all of these
activities seemed directly related to foreign intelligence and national security.
They're kind of, um, a to C thinking rather than
(06:08):
a to be thinking, Yeah, how do we get to
that end goal? Sometimes that end goal is how do
we make a person who is being interrogated more susceptible
to telling us all the information we want? As in
MK Ultra, that's that's the CIA mind control program that
we made I believe two episodes about recently. Check those
(06:28):
out and can also find some videos on that that
we've covered. Um, how do we take out a large
number of people, perhaps in a way that wouldn't indicate
traditional weaponry like traditional munitions. There you go, here's some
biological warfare for you, um, perhaps finding a way to
kill someone without letting anyone else know that the CIA
(06:50):
was involved, or the United States or anyone else. In fact,
um unorthodox assassinations, poisoning wet suits, exploding cigars like we
talked about on the of the Fidel Castro cube episode,
or how about just biological warfare experiments on the citizens
of the United States, which is a true story. There
(07:10):
are various accounts of the Central Intelligence Agency dispersing contaminants
or substances meant to impersonate contaminants over large swath's population
centers here in the US, more or less to see
what would happen. The CIA has also experimented with hypnosis,
(07:31):
and honestly, in comparison to some of their other research avenues,
this is pretty tame. This is sort of a slow
news day for the CIA, one would think, at least,
But what what exactly is hypnosis? What do we mean
when we say hypnosis? Nowadays it's widely misunderstood, and this
is due primarily to its depiction in works of fiction.
(07:55):
One film that I Love in Particular is a real
blockbuster when it came out. It's a cabinet dr caligary
in which a somnambulist or a sleepwalker is turned into
a monster sort of a a predecessor of what we
call the Manchurian candidate today, and through the power of hypnosis,
(08:17):
the epononymous villain of the film creates this killing machine.
That's not how hypnosis works. That's at least that's not
what the science shows us. Hypnosis is not a process
wherein someone can be turned into a killing machine, forced
to harm themselves, or really even forced to do something
that they wouldn't have done normally, you know what I mean,
(08:42):
sort of like the reason why being drunk is not
a good excuse for someone's behavior. It's not something you
would never have done. It's just something that you would
do when you are less inhibited or less aware of
the consequences of your actions. Hypnosis is also not a
good tool for researching hidden trauma or suppressed memories, because,
(09:03):
as long time listeners know, you can implant false memories
and people very very very easily. So what is hypnosis instead?
What what do we mean when we say that the
Cia was experimenting with real hypnosis. What are we talking about. Well,
it's really a trance state that you can put somebody in,
(09:24):
and you know what, it is characterized by extreme suggestibility,
and that's where you bring in being able to plant
memories into somebody by you know, just leading someone down
a path of suggestion. Right. It also has to do
with relaxation heightened imagination. But it isn't exactly the way
because when you hear that, maybe you think about sleep
(09:46):
or that sleepy feeling that you'll get sometimes when you're
a bit out of it, as you might put it,
as I would put it, um, but it isn't really
like sleep because the subject, the person who is under hypnosis,
is alert the entire time that they are undergoing hypnosis.
It's um a lot of times compared to day dreaming,
or at least the feeling of losing yourself in a
(10:09):
book or a movie, or maybe that that kind of
feeling you get when you come to alertness again after
you've been driving in a car for a long time
and you realize, oh wow, I've gone three or four
miles and I can't recall any of the exits or
any of the things that just occurred, and have to
reiterate this. You are fully conscious when you are under hypnosis,
(10:30):
but you do tune out all of the other stuff
that's occurring around you, all the stimuli. You focus intently
on whatever is at hand, the subject at hand. Uh.
If someone speaking to you and like leading you through hypnosis,
that is the only thing that's occurring. Those those words,
the sounds basically coming towards you. Yeah, think about flow state.
(10:51):
Flow state is when, for new athletes in the audience,
you feel that you are in the zone. Maybe you're
so focused the time seems to slow it. Maybe you
don't hear things the way that you would normally hear them.
If you're outside of the flow state. In the everyday
trance of say Walter Midiesque flight of fancy, or let's
(11:15):
say watching a film that you're very into, an imaginary
world seems somewhat more real. We suspend our disbelief and
this this primarily translates to a work of fiction or unreality,
fully engaging our emotions. That's why people have a cathartic
(11:35):
experience when they see tragedies or when they watch love stories.
These imaginary events can cause you to experience genuine fear, sadness,
or happiness. This is also, by the way, the reason
that jump scares in horror films work. You know that
you're in a theater with maybe eighty or more people,
(11:56):
or you know that you're the only person in your
house but that creepy girl from the ring. Am I right?
Some researchers categorize all of these trances as forms of
self hypnosis. There's a hypnotism expert back in the twentieth
century named Milton Ericson and Ericsson believed that most people
hypnotize themselves on a daily basis. And for those of
(12:19):
us listening who say, oh, well, I am unhypnotize herble,
I've never been in a trance state. If you've ever
been on a road trip for more than about three hours,
I can guarantee that you have entered something like this.
It is the way the human mechanism works. Most psychiatrists
don't focus on this accidental sneak up on your trance state.
(12:42):
They focus on intentional relaxation focusing exercises you know what
I mean, Like breathe deep counter breaths. Imagine that there
is a waterfall or you're slowly floating away from your
body as we count down from ten to one. That, yeah,
(13:02):
it's almost the focused meditation kind of things, or guided meditation,
or a s MR kinds of things. This deep hypnosis
is often compared to that sort of reverie we encounter
between wakefulness and sleep, which is for a lot of people,
the most amazing part of their day. And I would
say that all of this we're discussing right here reminds
(13:24):
me of the feeling you get when you're deeply immersed
in a video game. And I think it's probably almost
more powerful in that respect, because even though your body
is reacting, your fingers are touching some control mechanism, your
entire consciousness is existing in whatever that imaginary world is
(13:46):
um on your screen. However you're experiencing the video game,
especially in a VR setting or something um to, where
all of the external stimuli, especially if you're wearing headphones,
just goes away. Um, that's just what I'm thinking. I'm
hearing all of this, agreed. In conventional hypnosis, we approached
(14:06):
the suggestion of our hypnotists or you know yourself if
you're the hypnotist, as if they were reality. But on
some level we are always aware that this is not
the concrete, you know, baseline reality. It's it's like we're
playing pretend, similar to when you play games as children,
(14:26):
but on a more intense level. And in this particular
mental state, people do feel uninhibited and do feel relaxed.
Presumably this is because you get a bit further away
cognitively from the worries and doubts that usually keep our
actions in check. This all leads to subjects of hypnotism
(14:49):
also being highly suggestible, which is how you can hypnotize
someone and convince them that they had an experience they
just now remember bird right, and then boom, you can
write a book. So and this has been the path
for a lot of unethical therapists, especially in the nineties
and eighties. By the way, this is this is how
(15:11):
stage magicians can get people to do things that are
endearing but not dangerous. However, the CIA did not research
hypnotism to make people squawk like chickens or learn to
chill acts and be laid back a f Instead, they
did this to teach their agents psychic powers. And we'll
(15:34):
get into that right after a word from our sponsor.
Here's where it gets crazy. Yes, that is correct, The
CIA researched psychic powers or extra sensory perception a k a. ESP. Yeah,
(15:56):
it's a lot like something we've discussed on this show before.
Remote viewing, remember this remote viewing them in Project Stargate,
that whole military program from seventy eight, probably seeing the
movie The Menu stare At Goats loosely based on that
or somewhat based on that, And the CIA had this
whole separate program specifically to research potential of remote viewing
(16:19):
and you know, in in this like kind of weird
sci fi way, to unlock those powers of the human mind,
the ones that have been hidden away or that we
forgot about or we just don't realize when we're on
this corporeal plane that we that we have. And they
did not go into this endeavor alone. They partnered out,
they contracted out. They went to a place called the
(16:42):
Monroe Institute. From the late nineteen seventies into the nineteen eighties,
the CIA paid for intelligence officers to go on week
long excursions to an out of the way place called
the Monroe Institute. The Monroe Institute specialized out of body
experiences and astral projection, and Matt you had you had
(17:05):
done a little bit of digging on the namesake of
the Monroe Institute. Correct, Yeah, yeah, I did. There's this
guy named Robert A. Monroe. He is a fascinating subject.
He was an executive for broadcast radio in several different respects,
several different Uh, I don't know. I guess you can
(17:26):
call it stations. He ended up making his own company,
and as part of his company that he created, he
was doing a lot of research into audio and one
thing that just kind of happened to occur. As he's
doing all this research on how audio affects listeners, uh,
other new things we can do with audio? How can
we influence people who are listening? Uh? He stumbled upon
(17:50):
this idea that perhaps through tones, we can influence the
way people experience either other audio or even get someone
to encounter what he would later coin in one of
his books and out of body experience right right in
his book Journeys Out of the Body. Is that correct? Yes? Correct?
(18:13):
And he and far Journeys is another one of his books,
Ultimate Journey, lots of journeys, Journey out of the Body,
that's the that's the big one. Um, it's really I mean,
he's a fascinating character. And if you go to the
Monroe Institute's website, which is m O N R O
E Institute dot org, you can you can actually find
(18:35):
YouTube videos of this man, Bob Monroe as he's called
a lot of times, where he's giving talks. And I
started going down this rabbit hole today with this guy.
He has some kind of I guess what would be
considered out of their ideas about what human consciousness is. Um,
I guess what he's discovered through his explorations of his
(18:57):
own technology and his own techniques. I don't I actually
don't want to describe them in full detail here. I
would just encourage you to listen to some of these,
because if I just told you in a bulleted point
what he believes experience is as consciousness, you would just
probably sigh, roll your eyes and then leave. But I
(19:17):
think after hearing what we're gonna tell you today, then
maybe watching these, your mind might might be a little
more open or susceptible to suggestion. Yeah, and and just
I agree with that, Matt. Just to give everyone a
taste of where we're where we're coming from with this,
let's let's describe Bob's findings not in his own words,
(19:39):
but in an excellent short summary by journalist Caroline Haskins
writing for Motherboard on Vice, she says, human consciousness is
nothing but an intersection of energy planes that forms a
hologram able to travel through space time all one word,
across the universe and into the past, present, and future.
(20:00):
That's the elevator pitch for the nature of consciousness is
seen by the Monroe Institute. There's a lot more to it,
so check it out. I guess before you, before you
make your your final call. Uh. This this was very
out there for some people, but it was also very
promising for others, including people like Army Commander Wayne m McDonald,
(20:25):
who in June was asked to give his commander an
assessment of the psychic services provided by the Monroe Institute.
This was during something called Projects Center Lane. The Monroe
Institute is known for not just Bob's opinions on the
nature of human consciousness and it's uh interactions with what
we call reality, but for the patented technology that he
(20:49):
and his associates have created. They call it hemmy sink
short for hemisphere synchronization, and it uses audio to quote
sync guys. The brain waves of the left and right
sides of the brain. According to the website, this makes
the brain more receptive to hypnosis and all of the
other potential things they believe the human mind can do
(21:13):
while in that state. And you may have heard of
this before a lot of times, it's referred to as
binaural beats. On the Internet. You can find YouTube videos
of purported by neural beats, and generally it has to
do with two different similar but not the same tones
that are being played in stereo into both of your
(21:35):
ears right. And as we established before, audio has tremendous power,
some effects of which are more apparent than others. So
Wayne was asked to provide this assessment after he had
completed the week long psychic program at the institute a
month prior. And this this institute, just for reference, is
(21:58):
located in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia in a
small town called Fabor Favors, about thirty miles east of Charlotte'sville.
That that probably gives our US audience a rough sense.
For everyone outside of the US, I don't think they
are just a series of names. But if you if
you pop on Google Maps, you can see the point
we're making is this is relatively isolated. So here's the
(22:21):
question what did McDonald say. Well, his report formed the
basis of a twenty nine page Army document that featured
detailed explanations of hypnosis, holograms, and out of body experiences.
The documents placed these phenomena in the context of these
larger ideas of consciousness, energy, spacetime, quantum, sub atomic particles,
(22:48):
the astral projection Ryan of course, astral projection is the
idea that one can uncouple the mind and the body
and send the mind free throughout all sorts of places
and doesn't have to travel through linear time. I do
want to note here that we primarily focus on this
(23:09):
being a CIA activity, but a lot of this was
the CIA and the Army functioning sort of hand and glove. Uh.
They were, they were sharing a lot of research on this.
So McDonald's cites a metaphor penned by Monroe Institute employee
named Melissa Jagger or Yeager in order to illustrate the
(23:29):
nature of hypnosis. The metaphor says that the normal state
of consciousness is kind of like a lamp, and that
means it admits light in a chaotic, incoherent way, but
in which we kind of in a way disagree with
that because it's just more of like an omnipresent single
source of light that goes in all directions. But but
we agree. Yeah, But a hypnotized state of consciousness, by contrast,
(23:54):
would be like a laser beam and thoughts and energy
are as you had said earlier, Matt, describing hypnosis there
like a disciplined stream of light or like a laser.
So when they're doing projects CenTra Lane, when when they're
working on this, the big question here is how they
(24:14):
found candidates? Right? How how did they how did they
get officers to participate in projects Center Lane. Well, the
first thing you gotta do when you're gonna bring someone
on into some kind of hypnosis study and or UM
learning and training technique is to hypnotize them. That's of
(24:36):
course first and foremost, and then UM, after they're under hypnosis,
they would practice UM like reaching this place, this state
of consciousness considered the astral plane, and the whole goal
is to learn foreign languages, like basically be able to
teach yourself things at a faster pace, to enter the matrix,
(24:57):
if you will, in a way, and to also do
this thing that the documents referred to as habit control training,
which you can assume has to do with, you know,
training each of these people who are going to take
part in this to do certain things, to not do
certain things, although the details of that are lost to us.
According to one of the declassified files, two hundred and
(25:20):
fifty one Army intelligence candidates were selected for the first
year of experimentation, and of those candidates, a hundred and
seventeen were initially interviewed under the impression that they were
just taking a survey. Right, McDonald was trying to find
people who are in the middle of the bell curve
regarding credule is um versus skepticism. So people who objected
(25:45):
to military use of what they called psycho energetics categorically
were not considered to be good candidates. And then on
the other side of the spectrum, people who seemed incredibly
gassed and excited about psycho energetics, or people who, by
whatever measure they had the study conducted, considered to be
(26:06):
a cult, fanatics, or mystical zealots were also out of
the running. But for the people who were accepted, they
were they were shipped off on a real weird field trip.
They went to the Monroe Institute and then they would
listen to this heem I sink audio. After this, one
of the institute's research associates would do the guided meditation
(26:27):
that you mentioned earlier, Matt. They would guide intelligence officers
into the astral plane, the psychic space, in which the
Institute maintained that officers could heighten their century experiences, accelerate
their healing, travel into the past or the future, or
even solve real world dilemmas without the restraints of a
(26:48):
physical body. I know, right. Another technique known as remote
viewing was also employed, and this is something that should
be familiar if if you caught our early interview with
the scientists Russell targ or some of our work on
projects stargate. According to a declassified document from eighty two,
(27:10):
which doesn't specifically explicitly mentioned the Army or the Monroe
Institute because they didn't go until the next year, right right.
This This does, however, follow the precise description of remote
viewing as explained by the UH, as explained by the
three doc that does mention Monroe by name. So what
(27:34):
what were they doing exactly? What was their first big milestone?
Test goal. The answer will surprise you, we promise, and
we'll tell you after a word from our sponsor. Well,
(27:54):
according to the documents that that we found online, the
goal of all of this remote viewing, all of the
energy that all of these people put in was to
remotely view Mars in the year one million b C.
Basically to find out if there was a human civilization
(28:16):
or another extraterrestrial civilization of intelligent beings that lived on
Mars back then. According to the transcript, and interviewer read
coordinates and verbal cues to a subject, and the subject
claimed to see dust storms, alien structures, and even an
ancient alien race. You can, by the way, you can
(28:39):
see all of the stuff we're describing at CIA dot gov.
Just searching through their reading room and you will. You
will see this written out explicitly. We're not styling on
this north paraphrasing. You heard that it's on the CIA's website.
It's true. So some people did say that they saw something.
(28:59):
You could either, you know, you you can read the
transcript and decide for yourself whether they're just hyper suggestible
and maybe they're just kind of improvising and riffing on
cueues that the research associate or already gave them. But
here's here's one description from subject to certainly saw something.
He says, very toll again, very large people, but they're
(29:22):
they're thin. They look thin because of their height, and
they dressed like, oh hell, it's like it's like a
real light silk, but it's not you know, flowing type
of clothing. It's it's cut to fit their their ancient people.
They're they're dying, it's past their time or age. They're
very philosophic about it. They're looking for a way to survive,
(29:43):
and they just can't. Wow. This is just one example,
to be fair, that is a direct quote, but there
are other examples out there. Was he was he from
Georgia or Alabama? Where where was he from? It maybe
lost to history, It don't know if it's a source,
but sounded like he went through being from maybe four
or five very different places in the course of that description.
(30:06):
You know what I mean. I guess he was a
military brat and moved around a lot. But this is
all real. This all definitely happened, And the big question
is what happened next after they sent these people for
these things? Uh? What did what did they find. What
did the Army in the c i A find with
(30:28):
HEMI Sink technology. Well, there's this guy who was described
as a personal management analyst named Ray Ray Wald Cooder.
He wrote this article for the hem Sinc. Journal. So
they've got an entire journal here. And again the Monroe
Institute was a research arm created through his research and
(30:50):
development efforts through his broadcast company. Okay, so he's reviewing
the Army's uses of HEMI Sink technology, so kind of
so you'd have the Army looking at their technology. Now
they're looking back on how the Army is going to
be using it, and and in this he states that
the Army variously used HEMI Sink technology for stress reduction,
(31:12):
psychological counseling, and enhanced learning abilities for various levels of personnel,
as well as training for people seeking officer level positions.
So really, they truly are, at least in several ways
here attempting to use it like the matrix to teach
people skills as fast as they can and as efficiently
(31:33):
as possible. And Waltcotter wrote also that several intensive Army
military training programs have been conducted using the technology. This
is where it gets this. This is pretty fascinating because
he said these programs demonstrated positive results, which means that
in one or more than one of the fields of
(31:55):
research that they were conducting, this technology hem I sink
was found to be successful. We don't know which fields,
We don't know how successful. We just know that they
felt there was something to it, and as a result,
research continued until when the Defense Appropriations Act directs the
(32:16):
program to be transferred to way for it the CIA,
and the CIA keeps working with this. We're not sure
exactly what they did with it, because we don't know
what did or did not make it into a written report.
But the CIA itself later said remote viewing had not
been proven to work by a psychic mechanism specifically, and
(32:40):
they assured us or assured themselves internally that it had
not been used operationally. Furthermore, the CIA concluded that there
was nothing striking or surprising about its findings after doing
research of their own. M Yeah, so now we're at
(33:03):
another than a fork in the road. Right. Over twenty
million dollars was sunk into this project, of which we're aware,
and to be fair, that is not a huge figure
in comparison to many other strange Army and CIA projects.
But let's remember that the US public footed the bill here,
(33:24):
and this was at a time when people were, as
they are now still in need of education, medical care, food,
and so on. Uh So, is it money well spent?
Was it foolish? Is there more to the story. I
don't know, but maybe you're saying, hey, guys, I i'm um.
I'm a person who learns through experience. I want to
(33:45):
follow in the footsteps of the CIA and Army intelligence
and figure this out for myself. While we have good
news for you friends and neighbors. The Monroe Institute, as
we record, is still operating. It's still around, it is
still selling. It's him I Sink program today. So you
can take a week off yourself and go find out
(34:06):
what all the hubbub is about. Yeah, and there's everything
from many one day programs, or you can jump on
one of their five to six day consciousness programs. And you, guys,
then when Row institutes and kind of in a silly way,
but also in I'm genuinely interested in this about you
could take a class about energy medicine. You can take
(34:30):
a class that's described as event Horizon conscious presence. We
could all probably use a little bit of that nowadays,
or something called animal and interspecies communication. Now that one
I'm into. If I could talk to my dog, like
really know what's going on, that would be huge. That's
(34:51):
my pick, awesome or event horizon, whatever that is. So
let us know your experience with this, if you decide
to engage in this sort of activity, or if you
take a field trip to the Monroe Institute, let us
know if you've been to this or something like this
in the past. We would love to hear your stories.
(35:12):
Most importantly, like all classified projects, this was technically a conspiracy,
not a theory that really spent the money in secret
the Army and then later the CIA. Yet for fringe researchers,
the admitted conspiracy is simply a distraction, sort of a
(35:35):
red herring to throw you off the trail, and they'll
argue that this sort of experimentation continues today. So if
we took a little bit of time to speculate to
engage in some what iffory, let's let's see what would
be the best way to conduct this sort of experimentation
(35:59):
with out the usual legal limitations imposed by domestic and
international law. First, if we throw worlds to the wayside,
you would probably want to set up an institution or
laboratory of some sort in a place that the US
controlled but was not legally obligated towards, so like Diego,
(36:24):
Garcia maybe, or or one of the islands where so
many people have been black bagged in the War on Terror.
And then you would want, of course keep it out
of the news. You would also you would also want
to make sure that you could dope the subjects up
as much as you wanted to see how far into
(36:47):
that state you could get them before there were delatorious
cognitive or physical effects, and then probably just to get
a baseline, you would keep going until if you died.
That's that's the kind of stuff that you will see
fringe researchers arguing is happening now as we record today.
There isn't proof of that, but that is some disturbing speculation,
(37:10):
and just saying that that could happen, which absolutely good
for all we know it could be happening. Now, just
saying that could happen is not the same thing as
saying any of that would result in actual remote viewing,
you know what I mean? Or reproducible astral travel and
so on, and just saying it is completely possible for
the U S and other powerful governments to kidnap people,
(37:33):
take them into a place where ethical constraints do not apply,
and experiment on them. There you go. Or you could just,
I don't know, pump some of that binaural stuff that
Hemi sink stuff into the radio waves and see how
it plays on the public overall. Does it have any
effect on humans while they're driving or while they're listening
(37:56):
to their podcasts? That's a very good Did you guys
notice the the Hemi sink technology happening in your ears
while you're listening to this? You didn't because we weren't
using it. But but wouldn't that be cool if we did?
Wouldn't that be cool if we did? What would happen?
(38:17):
Let us know, and and also let us know what
you think about this idea of Center Lane in general.
Was it a brief, well intentioned dabbling and unorthodox methods
that was rightly discarded when the science just didn't hold
up to scrutiny, or was it something else, something a
little more sinister, something they don't want you to know.
(38:38):
Perfect you can tell us about it on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter,
find our favorite part of the show your fellow listeners
on our community page. Here's where it gets crazy. Yeah,
or you can call us where we are one three
three st d w y t K. Leave a message,
tell us about your experience rather than writing it down.
We'll enjoy it. You might get on the air, but
(39:00):
make sure you let us know if you want us
to use your name and or if you want us
to mask your voice or whatever, or you just don't
want it to go on the air. Have we ever
masked anyone's voice for this match? We have. On the
last voicemail episode we had a Royal Canadian Mounted Police
officer call in that we masked his voice. Fantastic. So
maybe even you just want your voice masked for the
(39:22):
look for the aesthetic. Sure, Paul, Paul doesn't mind. No, seriously,
please don't abuse that. And while you're on the internet,
why not drop us a review on iTunes. Every every
review you give us gives it gets us think of
it this way. It gets us a little bit further
away from being black bagged ourselves. So do help us out,
(39:46):
and yes, and it also helps more people find the
show because it moves us up in the rankings on
places like Apple Podcasts, and it is just you know,
if you want other people listen, then why not. By
the way, tell us what you really think. We're not
asking you just to give us a five star review.
We're asking for your opinion. I mean, that would be nice, totally.
We we accept it, but we'll take the other stuff too.
(40:10):
And if none of that quite fills out your dance card,
if there's another way that you prefer to communicate, we
have one more for you. Even in these our modern days,
you can still send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they
(40:47):
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