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December 11, 2015 50 mins

You've probably heard some of the accusations regarding recent tragedies -- that the official story is wrong, and aspects of certain events are either misrepresented or staged completely. But could that be true? What are 'crisis actors?"

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
From UFOs two ghosts and government cover ups. Histories were
with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn
the stuff they don't want you to now. Welcome back
to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel,
and I am then most importantly you are you, or

(00:23):
at least we hope, and that makes this stuff they
don't want you to know. Gentlemen, today, we are looking
at something controversial, to say the least. Yes, this is
something uh that has vehement reactions on either side, and
what we're going to try and do is tell you

(00:44):
about it, explain the scythes and give you a little
historical background on maybe some maybe some context about why
people would believe something like this. And because so many
of our best suggestions come from our listeners, we went
to Twitter before recording this, just a little bit before
recording it, as we sometimes do, and asked, asked you

(01:07):
or you if you follow us on Twitter? What what
we should address? What? What are some points we should address?
And we've got a few nomad if you guys are
cool with I'll read a few of them, all right, So, uh,
Stewart Lucky asked us, uh, where in particular do people
supposedly recruit or hire crisis actors or is it just

(01:31):
done internally? And then let's see, uh, propaganda do ask
us how is it pretty much? I'm paraphrasing prop do.
But you say that a conspiracy powerful enough to stage
all these events and hid the truth can't afford new actors. Uh.

(01:52):
Kolby says, what about the photoshop abilities to age young
of five people in image used in conjunction with crisis actors?
Are videos of dummies being staged a positioned at Sandy
Hook the Boston bombing video? Uh? And people want to
know about Tim Osmond, one distraught woman who shows up

(02:13):
in multiple cases. Uh. And then we also have uh,
let's see Kolby k has a bunch of these. Um
says that one woman died in two of them and
that the media used the same image slightly cropped and screwed.
People really want to hear about Sandy Hook and the
father and that, uh, the last one, it's not not

(02:37):
related and you'll enjoy this one is lethal feeders music
says no, but could you please have no old turn
up his microphone. He's on the quieter side sometimes and
hard to hear. Hashtag constructive. What I've never heard that
before in my life. People are always telling me to
pipe down. Yeah, okay, okay, I can do that. That's

(03:00):
on me. We'll pipe up. That's no, it's on me
production lines, because I mean, it's my job to fiddle
the knobs. And obviously maybe I'm just you know, insecure
and I want to be quieter. But I'm gonna work
on that, guys. But Jeff such a great voice. Thank you.
I look forward to hearing more of it. Yes, So
these are some of the questions that you've asked us.
We can't answer all of these, but we're gonna address
some of them. And one of the one of the

(03:21):
first places for us to start would be that, uh,
the times they are changing, and they appear to write
their disasters. It seems like you cannot turn on the
news without hearing about a mass shooting, a terrorist attack.
The other thing I'm sorry is going for a list. Well,
you know, there are increasing environmental disasters that are occurring now.

(03:45):
So I mean just there are bad things on that
that TV or your Reddit feed perhaps, and the lovely
twenty four hour news cycle gives us these just like
loops of these things when they happen, and you know,
for example, the shooting at the Planned Parenthood the other
week or several weeks ago, I just felt like, as
the story was developing, you just turned on the TV
and it's just like this loop of like non information.

(04:07):
You know, they're just trying to fill time. So well, yeah,
there was the San Bernardino shooting recently, even after that,
and you know, did you guys see the whole thing
where news crews went into the apartment they went into
the part To my stomach, it was one of the
strangest things I've ever seen, and clearly the producer who

(04:28):
was present at the scene was uncomfortable with what the
journalist was attempting to do, which was divulging private information
based you know, people's license information and pictures of children
and such, and was ridiculed on the Daily Show for it.
Right now, it seems like that one could be an
episode into itself, because I've already been seeing things about
how you know, supposedly they had not cleared the scene,

(04:52):
and you know, some someone had to have given signed
off to allow those journalists to come in there. You know,
if it was still an active crime scene, there would
have been tape up, they would not have been able
to get in the way they had. So, you know,
the story CNN told I don't mean to go too
long on this, let me know if I am, But
the story CNN told was that the FBI had already

(05:14):
gone in and taken all the evidence out that they
needed that they thought was pertinent, and then control of
the apartment was officially under the person who owned the
apartment complex. It seemed like it happened really really fast,
as all yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, it all just came
at you, and then you know, on the news, you
get analysis on essentially nothing. That's what I mean, That's

(05:34):
that's what I brought this whole thing up. It's just
they just it just ends up being these this minutia,
Like with the planned Parenthood shooting, where the guy was
still at large and there was really nothing to report.
They just kind of get like these random experts to
talk about the psychology of, you know, an active shooter situation,
which I suppose can be useful information, but it just
at the end of the day, feels like they're just

(05:55):
filling out time and patting you know, their air time,
and it's just not particularly encouraging right, and how much
of it is in the in the wake of tragic event,
how much of that news is manufactured, you know, how
much of it is an echo chamber. When we talk
about manufacturing news, it gets one of the big things

(06:16):
that is tied up inherently in the crisis actor conspiracy theory,
which is a false flag attack. So if you listen
to this show or you watch our videos, you know
that we talk about false flags quite a lot. It's
a topic that comes up very heavily in our sphere here,
and uh, let's just go over it. A false flag

(06:37):
is essentially an attack that occurs when there's one group.
Let's say Group A is going to carry out an attack,
but they don't want anyone to know that they are
in fact Group A, so they either disguise themselves, dress
up in a way that Group B would dress up,
or fly the flag of Group B. H This was
an old tactic in naval warfare and it ben Yes,

(07:02):
the term comes from naval warfare, wherein one ship would
fly a false flag of flag that was not their own. So,
for the sake of argument, hypothetically, let's say that the
UK and Spain are both on the eastern coast of
what would later become the United States and a Spanish

(07:24):
Spanish ship. It decides that they are going to attack
a ship from UK. So what they do is instead
of sailing up to them, and keep in mind these
are sailing ships, you know, and they will see each
other coming, so right, So what they do instead is
they raise the British flag. When they raise that flag,

(07:47):
then the other ship, the ship they're attempting to uh
to to rob says oh, great, wonderful, jolly good, jolly good, Yeah, exactly,
jolly good to fellow British. Apologies to our UK. Listen, yeah,
we apologies, yeah, main mainly on my behalf. And then

(08:08):
once within firing range or attack range, boom, British flag down,
Spanish flag up or uh. This could be a pirate
pirate practice, you know. This has also happened numerous times
in more modern ages, especially in the maritime field, but
not just in the water. Right. Oh, I was just
gonna stay too. That term false flag, it's funny to me.

(08:30):
It harkens back to a time where there were rules,
there were standards, you know, you had to you flew
your flag in the battlefield so that you knew who
your enemy was. And obviously warfare has let's say, devolved
into something much less sportsmanlike than that. Leave it there. Anyway,
you're absolutely right and well about how warfare has changed
and adapted and evolved over the years. And there, Hey,

(08:54):
that's another podcast we can talk about how warfare has adapted,
for sure, if that's interesting in the future of it.
But Ben, under your point, yes, naval warfare isn't the
only place where false flags have occurred. There have. There
are numerous examples. One of them occurred when Japan wanted
to invade Manchuria. Oh yeah, n one, so to protect

(09:17):
their interest, Japan occupied UH Manchuria because of a bombing
and a railway. It's called the Mukden incident. However, here's
what happened though, Japan plant at the bomb what yeah,
and Japan blew up the UH the railway or tried to.

(09:38):
They didn't. They didn't do the best job. But because
of that, in staid, oh, we have to protect the
South Manchuria Railway, which was Japanese don so boom, we
have to be there. So these are political maneuvers essentially, Yeah, yes,
spot on uh. And there's other stuff happens with German
forces invading Poland through a a series of false flags

(10:01):
known as Operation Himmler, and this comes. You can read
some more about this in a fantastic article by Skeptoid,
which I don't always agree with, but does it does
a good job. And it's just one of those things
that false flags seemed to be a way to get
around an official channel of getting something done right. It's

(10:22):
it's this weird, it's this weird way of I don't
understand it. It's like shooting your own foot almost a
lot of times so that you can get the doctor
that you really need to come in that didn't want
to come in or something. You know, that's a pretty
good example. I mean, it's weird. It's a strange, strange thing. Well,
it's yeah, it's an it's an active deceit or espionage

(10:44):
carried to an extreme and at times brutal degree. We
know that false flag attacks are real. We have a
bunch of possible or debatable false flag attacks. For instance,
the Gulf of Tonkin is often called one of those.
But the thing is that real, proven false flag attacks

(11:05):
are vastly outnumbered by alleged false flag attacks. Right and
we can see that there there's still a debate about that,
but they're also there's also this um disturbing habit where
people say, well, I don't believe the official story, therefore
this is a false flag attack. This is one of

(11:27):
the big pieces of the crisis actor theory, which brings
us to the question of the day, right, what is
a crisis actor. So, a crisis actor is basically a
person who is paid to role play or perform the
part of a victim or an antagonist or civilian or
any other bystander in war games or disaster drills. So

(11:50):
this I mean, specifically, I guess would refer to, you know,
a staged event that is understood to be staged. Is
that correct? Yeah, I'm just making sure I'm on the
right page here. Um, So, crisis actors are in fact real,
I mean, this is a definite thing. In the you
know scenarios that we're describing here, you can find different
contractors and private companies not just in the States but
in other countries that use actors to make these disaster

(12:12):
drills in scenarios somehow more real. So, for example, like
an active shooter drill in an office building, you've got
companies that come in and train workers how to respond
to an active shooter scenario. This company might outsource these
crisis actors to come in either play the part of
the shooter, be a plant someone that works in the building,
to kind of change things up, go for the wrong exit,

(12:34):
give you examples to you know, uh, ignore like obstacles
almost to go through another way. Um, in order to
kind of like exercise what you've been taught. And it
doesn't necessary. I love to use example because it does
not necessarily need to be a military thing. It could
be a private industry. That's a really great point. I've
got a short story. Oh you have a short story?

(12:55):
Can I just give people a place that they can
go really fast? If you want to see a company
that does specialize in this, Yes, the UK one, Yeah,
I I This is one of the best examples that
I could find is called crisis cast dot com. It
says on the website, quote are specially trained professional role
play actors and internationally credited film crews bring realistic, informed

(13:18):
crisis management and disaster incidents to life. And then they
go on to talk about all the different things that
they can do with stunts, medical simulations, using film techniques
to bring the best of theater and film to our
live immersive simulations. They also have a pretty interesting emphasis
on social media. They do damage control in that way,

(13:39):
which makes me think about is that like sock Puppets?
Is that what that is? I think it exactly verges
on that. It also verges on information or narrative management.
Probably when do you like, oh, Egypt is going up
in flames? When do you black out the Twitter? Or
even when like an unpopular person uh does like and

(14:00):
ask me anything on Reddit and you see like people
asking them really softball questions that have like newly created
accounts and stuff. Maybe something along those lines, if very well,
could be. We haven't taken the course. I wonder what
their prices are. Should we sign up for that? Yes,
I'm thinking it's going to be steep. It might get
a free trial. Maybe there's a yeah, maybe the first
ten minutes are free and then we just leave. Uh

(14:23):
So I have a yeah, ever story that kind of
ties into this because I first found out about crisis
actors actual crisis actors in a another life, and I'll
talk too much about my personal life on this show,
So I'm gonna start now. Other than to say that
I worked at a place that would handle various reports

(14:45):
of disasters from around the world, primarily in the Western Hemisphere,
and some of these calls would come from a place
called Fort Polk in Louisiana. And these people would call
because they were injured at work, and no often was
something minor, and they couldn't say too much about what

(15:09):
they were doing. It wasn't really the gist of our conversation.
But what I learned is that they were civilians who
are hired to role play in these things happening at
the UM, the Joint Readiness Operation or something like that
at Fort Polk. Wait, so were you not informed that
it was happening in advance, like you were just supposed

(15:31):
to take the call as you normally would. The phone
would ring and you would answer it and they would say,
I'm I'm calling from this whatever the contractor is, and
I got to report this injury, and then I'd say, oh,
all right, well let's go on. So the thing that
really started to shed some light in it was how
how did you injure yourself? And you could tell that

(15:53):
there was a certain language they had to use when
describing it. Right, there was already a talking point, but
they didn't involve a little things that made me, made
me stop or say. One person said, well, I was
leaving the village thinking weird you huh, And I thought, Wow,
Louisiana's on a whole another level. Man. They got villages, Yeah,

(16:15):
they got parishes. Why not have villages? You know? It
made you see? No, you get it. It made sense
at the time. Just to throw in one more example
here really fast. Uh, did you guys ever in your
high school do a thing called ghost out? Have you
ever heard of this term? No, but I'm intrigued. You
may have done. You may have experienced something similar, but
not ghost out like field day. It's kind of like

(16:38):
field Day, but it's the most macab version of it
that you can imagine. So, in an attempt to prevent
teenagers who are just getting their cars from drinking and
driving or driving recklessly. Uh, in Forsyth County where I
went to high school, they did this thing called ghost
out where they would bring a wrecked vehicle onto a
field and they would have the actors at the school

(17:00):
pretend that or sometimes they were actors. Sometimes they were
like really popular kids pretend like they had died or
gotten into this massive car accident. They'd get in the
car that's already crushed up a little bit and have
blood on them, and you know, some of them would
be dead, some of them would be barely alive. All
of the local police and first responders would show up

(17:21):
and basically use the jaws of life get the kids
out of the car. They would perform CPR on some
of them, on others, they would put a body bag,
put them into a body bag, and then there would
be a mock funeral and all this other stuff. I
just thought it was a really weird. It was my
first version of a crisis acting kind of thing, because
I was an actor back in those days, and it

(17:43):
took part in one of them. And it was very,
very strange to have a helicopter landing on your school,
something that you know, you don't see every day, and
it gives you that tension that something real is occurring.
I just want to know if you guys had ever
experienced anything like that. The closest thing that I have
experience of that was I remember when I was younger,
a lot of area churches would do these um tribulations

(18:05):
relations like like like church haunted houses, and they would
have things like wrecked cars outside with like ghostly teenagers
dead and you know, on drugs or whatever. And the
devil was a big part of it, and like he
would always you'd be these scenarios that were presented to
you and at the end, the devil would pop out,
and you know, it would be a whole thing. Um,
is that what you you're talking about? Ben? Yeah, I

(18:28):
just essentially the religious version of the haunted house exactly. Yeah,
but it was more of a sit down thing. Well,
now elementary schools are going through drills for active shooters.
I mean, this is a a commonplace thing. My wife
was a school of psychologists before she quit to the
baby stuff, and they would every once in a while
they would have a drill where the police are there

(18:51):
and everybody's like huddled in a room and lockdown and everything.
It's an industry. I mean. Another show that I work
on that is Asn't Hasn't come out yet, a new thing.
We we speak to a couple of folks who are
former firefighters and police officers who now run a company
that trains office workers and how to react to active

(19:12):
shooters scenarios. And they were talking about how there was
one time years ago where they had heard about one
of these active shooter scenarios being done in a retirement
home without telling anybody that it was happening, and not
only did it result in a lot of traumatized elderly folks, um,
there were quite a few lawsuits that arose from it.
I can't imagine, So I would imagine that it would

(19:33):
be something you definitely have to prep elementary schools for.
In all these situations, save poor unfortunate residents of the
retirement community, there's one crucial important thing that you knew
they weren't really dead. Absolutely no, you knew it really
wasn't satan right, Yes, okay, But what if there was

(19:56):
another level to this? What if there's another level to
what we call, I hope you hear the finger quotes here, folks,
crisis acting. So what if there are actors where agents
hired not to enhance a training experience or what's what's
that phrase, a teaching moment, teachable moments, a teachable moment
of it, But what if instead they're hired to deceive

(20:18):
entire populations? That is that is the theory, the the
idea of when you hear people talk about crisis actors
on the internet, they're most likely not referring to this scenario.
Is we're just talking about that are proven to exist. Well,
and that is almost a hybrid of what we're describing

(20:39):
in terms of organizations hiring these actors to create these
teachable moments that you're talking about and those false flag attacks.
So it's almost like using actors to manipulate public opinion.
You're teaching well, well, I mean in theory you're teaching
the public way to feel if this is true, or

(21:00):
teaching the public a way to view a certain topic.
It certainly frames the discussion. Let's put it like right, yeah,
narrative management. Here's the gist, ladies and gentlemen, that certain forces,
typically thought to be government's, a coalition of governments, or
a cabal of New World Order types, pick pick your favorite,

(21:20):
are staging faked tragedies as a means of swaying the
population to support more extensive control over the po titty
and the common man or woman. So one of the
things that you may hear a lot, that the three
of us have heard a lot, is the idea that
mass shootings are some sort of staged eventment to justify
the abolishment of gun rights. Now I know, and that Matt,

(21:43):
I really appreciate you putting that disclaimer there at the beginning. Here.
We know this is a controversial thing, and we know
that people have actually died those are irrefutable. However, to
say that we shouldn't, to say that we shouldn't look
at this concept or this idea defeats the purpose of

(22:04):
this show. Absolutely, So we're doing it. We're doing a
respectful way. We know that this can be a traumatic
topic for people, But this is the gist of the story.
You might hear other examples to promoting a culture of
fear that will make the population more amenable to to
widespread surveillance. Right. Absolutely, Most of these theories have several

(22:27):
layers of nuance depending on who's talking about them and
supporting them. You can hear different variations of these on
info Wars, and Professor James Tracy of Florida Pacific University
is one of the leading advocates of the concept. Yeah,
this guy crops up all over the place when you
look up crisis actors, the theories he was. I think
he was the first source that I found. I think

(22:47):
from two thousand thirteen, UM during the Sandy Hook shooting
where he was discussing these people are actors or not
discussing it. He was just he was saying alleging, yeah,
and alleging that the people are actors and these yeah,
and the proof here is where the debate hinges. Right,
So folks who believe in this crisis actor conspiracy idea

(23:09):
will show side by side photographic photographs. I said, photographic evidence.
But that's it's like a photograph, right, I'm just I'm
using too many works at this point. Is just pixels. Yeah, sure,
it's true. It's like the old Mitch Hedberg joke, like
every photo of you is a photo of you when
you were younger. Um. But the but the point being

(23:30):
that they show pictures of different tragedies and people from
different tragedies and say, ah, this is the same person. Yeah.
And a lot of times they'll try and do I guess,
amateur versions of looking at the nose and then drawing
shapes on the nose and then comparing it with the
other shapes. And I mean it's it's people in photoshop

(23:53):
that are attempting to see, in my opinion, a lot
of times what they want to see I see, no,
I got I've got a point for that one too.
But we'll go back to the Some of the other
proof or stuff offered as proof will be um errors
in early reporting or when the story changes. That happens
a lot, which because of this news cycle that I

(24:14):
was talking about, I mean it makes sense just like logistically,
people are trying to rush to be the first one
to report the facts of one of these crises because
people eat it up. It is super huge for ratings.
I mean, people are glued to their TV steps when
these things happen, and so there is this like total
breakneck you know, race to be the first one to
report the story, and in that process things get lost

(24:37):
in the shuffle all the time. And it is also true,
to be absolutely fair, it is also true that news
stories can get can get suppressed. It's happened. You know.
It's like the old if you've heard of the Friday
night news dump, you know, or the Friday afternoon news dump. Yes,
so this is what okay. If ever, you have news

(24:58):
that you have to announce which don't want to get
a lot of attention on it and a lot of eyes,
what you do is you wait till Friday afternoon, when
no one gives a flying far fig nugan about what
you might be discussing. Sort of like that those handful
of months in the year when Hollywood studios released movies
that they know are going to be dogs, and they

(25:18):
don't screen them for critics, and they just kind of
want to just shove them out there and then basically
slew them un of the rug and pretend like they
never had What do they call those the dump months?
I want to uh So, that's that's another kind of
proof that's offered that the news might get something wrong, which,
as we see, is debatable absolutely. A third notion would

(25:40):
be that the people who see an interview, for instance,
are not themselves persuaded that the person is real. Implication
being that not only is this a crisis actor, but
it's also a bad actor. And based on this interview,
I the one bringing the truth and able to because

(26:01):
I have the one bringing the truth them in an
amazing judge of character. And I can tell you that's
not how people react, probably due to a personal experience
in my life. We're an anecdote with which I am familiar.
That's a fair way to say it. That is a
very fair way to say it. A lot of the
accusations that come through are of people who are being
interviewed after a tragedy. You're absolutely right, and then you'll

(26:23):
see blog posts this. You know, did you see the
reaction of this father of this slain child, or did
you see the reaction of this person who was supposed
to be examining these bodies and how callous they were
in their discussion and they were laughing. And that's where
a lot of it, Uh yeah, a lot of it,
at least that I've seen, comes from there. Now I've

(26:44):
I've seen I've seen simpets of that interview, so I'm
familiar the one you're referring to. So there are more.
There are multiples from different tragedies, Okay, multiples from different
tragedies wherein there's like a remember, let's say, of someone
who who died who just seems like maybe they're not

(27:06):
mourning as much as they should be, at least according
to the blogs that you'll read. Okay, oh yeah, because
I didn't know if it was them, I didn't know
if it was if the you was you, and specific
we're we're just talking about those general accusations. We're talking
about the general accusations well, and to me, it seems
like a lot of that can come from this rush

(27:29):
to get reporting done on these things, whether it's with
experts or whether it's with eyewitnesses. And kind of a
comical example of how easily this can happen is on
the HLN network there was a supposed expert, uh talking
about Edward Snowden getting a Twitter account, and the whole
time this this um anchor I suppose, is interviewing him,

(27:51):
He's describing Edward scissor hands and like he says, quote
casting amount is just completely wrong just because he was
created on top of a mount by Vincent Price. And
the expert said, that's what the expert said, and he says, um,
you know Edward snow And then he said, you know,
it was just it wasn't until he poked a hole
in the water bed with his scissor finger that people

(28:12):
started to turn on him. And he's saying all these
things and this uh, this anchor is just smiling and nodding,
and it just goes to show that, like I mean,
people are pretty easily duped, even like who are thought
to be professionals I can't imagine the person interviewing him
or her thinking that, oh maybe that's just tech, you know,
mumbo jumbo that I don't get. Yeah, poking hole in

(28:34):
the water bed with the ulciss. Maybe their thoughts were occupied.
Maybe maybe they were aware, but they couldn't they Yeah,
I mean, but you have to ask you if you
were the anchor. I think everybody listeners you'd probably agree.
If you were the anchor, wouldn't you feel like it's
a great opportunity to earn some credibility by stopping? You know?

(28:54):
One might think it depends in that situation, depends on
when you were born, because that there is a window,
a very small window, or that movie was highly important
and I am in that window. We know what you would. Okay,
So let's get into a couple of specific examples of
when crisis actors have been alleged to be at work.

(29:16):
The first one is during the Sandy Hook School shooting
in two thousand twelve December four, twelve, and the official
story is that Adam Lanza, acting alone, went in and
killed twenty six people, twenty of which were aged six
to seven, at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Now,

(29:36):
this is by all accounts a a tragedy, like a
horrible thing that occurred. There are a lot of people
who say that it didn't actually occur. Um and that's
where these theories start to come in. There are all
kinds of theories about what happened that day, no one died,
or that The theories rain from accusations that Adam Lanza

(30:02):
wasn't the actual shooter, that he was perhaps a scapegoat,
or that there were multiple other shooters that were the
ones truly doing the killing. Uh and it ranges all
the way to the military was somehow involved to uh
and and really there's there are so many If you
want to learn more about that stuff, we have a
video called Sandy Hook Questions, Claims and Questions. You can

(30:24):
check that out and learn more about the the overall
Sandy Hook conspiracy. But but to get into the crisis
actors version of this, one of the prominent things people
were saying is that the whole thing wasn't real. It
was all some kind of staged event where all the
teachers and the kids, the parents, even the medical examiner,

(30:48):
they're all actors and they're putting on a play and
essentially a drill that then got filmed by these TV
cameras and the TV crews and it got turned into
a real event. And a couple of these specific examples
within this specific example are one of the fathers of
one of the children who died. His name is Robbie Parker,

(31:10):
and he gave a press a press conference, uh gosh,
I think it was on the of December of that year,
and people when he first walks out, he's kind of
laughing with people that he's talking to before he walks
up to the mic, and he's smiling, and at least
according to the blogs, he appears to get into character

(31:31):
almost if you're going to be in a performance, and
then talks about his child, his daughter that just died.
And on the surface of it, I have to say, personally,
I was a bit I felt weird about watching. It
didn't feel right to me. But that does not mean
you mean he came off disingenuously. It's not that he

(31:53):
came off disingenuous. It was just it it didn't it's
something didn't feel right, didn't And and just because the
way this man is dealing with the trauma of losing
his daughter, uh is different from the way that I
would probably deal with It doesn't mean that this man
is an actor. Not only that, I mean, think about
what it would mean to not only go through that trauma,

(32:14):
but to have to go through it in the public
eye and be propped up for a press conference. I
mean that would require some amount of quote unquote getting
in character, you know. I mean, it's it's I can't
even imagine. I can't even imagine. Another person that came
under scrutiny while this was all going down, like I
mentioned before, is the medical examiner Mr. Wayne Carver. The

(32:34):
second he also gave an interview to a bunch of press,
and he was discussing what he found, uh, from from
when he went through the school, from when he was
doing autopsies on some of the victims. And the guy
just comes off as extremely callous. It seems like he
didn't just experience all of these horrifying things that he

(32:55):
just experienced. But perhaps, I mean, because of his role
of what he does every day, maybe it's maybe he
is a bit uh. I don't reguard it against the
emotions of these kind of situations. You have to be
It's like being a being a detective or being a policeman,
a first responder of any kind, you have to be
a little bit not callous, maybe a little bit clinical.

(33:17):
You have to kind of like just act and you
can't necessarily let the emotions of the situation affect you.
Otherwise you might make a mistake, you might not know
do things correctly, you might not follow the correct procedure.
So you have to kind of look at it in
a very clinical, procedural way. But I just have to
say again personally, when I remember watching this and I

(33:38):
watched it again for this podcast, there is something off
and it feels just strange when you're watching these some
of these interviews. So then why couldn't they get better actors?
I don't know, Ben, I'm just asking, like, if you know,
if it if it is a matter of salesmanship and deception,

(33:58):
wouldn't they go for the cream of the crop, or
at least someone marginally convincing. If that is the case,
I would tend to agree then, But let's let's go
really quickly. At least let's have a thought experiment about
what it would take for you to do this. How
much money would you have to be offered to do
something like that? Go in and pretend on in front

(34:21):
of cameras that something awful happened, knowing that it wasn't true,
and knowing that you were going to convince the world
that it was. So it's interesting that you bring up
that point, Matt, because that's something that was alluding to
earlier when we talk about the proof as far as
multiple people showing up in the same in different the

(34:42):
same person showing up in multiple disasters, Because how reasonable
is it to say that there is some vast, overarching
conspiracy involving hundreds in some cases, what thousands of people
who can all manage to keep a sea grit and
be able to brilliantly execute something like this despite rough

(35:05):
around the edges proof that people believe they have found,
and then yet still say we're going to use the
same people. It's just it's the the believability factor for that,
for that alone, is very low to me, just objectively,
and if someone can explain to me why there would

(35:25):
be such an elaborate, difficult to execute plan that relied
on using the same looking people over and over, you
know what I mean. It's like spending seven billion dollars
on a submarine program getting in the water and saying,
do you guys think the screen door is going to
be a problem? You know, Uh, it just doesn't add

(35:49):
It's I think the screen doors find Ben. But but
you know, I think you do a really good job
explaining that Sandy Hook example. I mean, and the whole
time you were doing that, I just feel myself, you know,
getting just a little nauseated that that someone would think
that because I just doesn't make sense, it doesn't add up.
And it's such an intensely tragic thing to have happened,

(36:14):
especially you know, if you've got loved ones who are
kids or kids yourself. Just to think that someone really
truly believes that that was staged, I just I just
find it. It's sort of as a little bit baffling. Yeah.
Can you imagine being the like being the father that
you and I are? Sorry, Ben, you are well, no,

(36:40):
I guess when you're talking about feeling a little off
about the father's uh you know, press conference again, I
just can you imagine you'd be losing your mind, You
wouldn't know how to act, you know, and then you're
basically thrust on this podium and told to emote for
the cameras and there's probably so many thoughts going on,
so many kind of cow or intuitive emotions. You're like,

(37:01):
you know, on the one hand, you want to honor
your child, demand you want to act as a source
of information for people. So there are these like competing motivations,
and it would just you'd get caught up in this mailstrom.
And I can't imagine just having to like center yourself
and prepare to do that. I mean, I would be
acting real, real weird. What are the effects of shock.

(37:22):
I just want to make the point that this guy,
after going through all that, then imagine going home and
then on your Facebook or you know, you're getting emails
or getting calls like, hey, we know you're an actor,
we know what you're doing. Your daughter never died, like
that whole other level of going through that. I mean,
what you're describing, it's it's on par with Holocaust denial

(37:44):
to me. WHOA. So the the other interesting thing here
as well is that, no, it's gonna sound like I'm
against what you guys are saying, but I want you
to explore that feeling right now, that feeling being profoundly offended,
and think about how that affects a decision, because there

(38:07):
is um there is a bizarre turn here, and we
saved it till the end of the episode. Uh, this
is just imagine the catchphrase if you wish, when people
are when people are acting under the reins of emotion.
Let's uh, there's this need to strike out against an injustice, right,

(38:32):
a need to make the world right again after it
was so profoundly skewed. And that's where we get to
something that is that I think is equally disturbing. So
we've got the crisis actors that are real, right that
we know about, the ones that are paid right to
say this is what you do if there's a sue
or in the office. We have the crisis actors that

(38:52):
are alleged people who travel around and some kind of
twisted carnival faking disasters. Right according to the people who
believe that, say, in the Middle there's something that I
think is just as disturbing and it's equally real. Something
like crisis actors do exist and they play a key
role in the murky world of propaganda. One of them

(39:13):
helped justify US invasion in the Middle East, and her
name when she was given her testimony was nurse Nariyah
to justify invasion in Iraq. This uh, this person was
talking about Iraqi atrocity, c atracitys on the behalf of
the Iraqi army. I'll read her quote here. I volunteered

(39:35):
at the allad in the hospital with twelve what other
women who wanted to help as well. I was the
youngest volunteer. The other women were from twenty to thirty
years old. While I was there, I saw the Iraqi
soldiers come into the hospital with guns. They took the
babies out of the incubators, took the incubators and left
the children to die on the cold floor. Here at
the last part, she's crying it was horrifying. So it

(39:59):
turns out that one she's not a nurse too, she's
the daughter of the Aquiti ambassador to the US, and
that the incubator stuff wasn't true. It also turns out
that she was probably working in concert with a pr
group called Hill and Knowlton. And although it's not clear

(40:22):
right now how much of her testimony is coached, there
were there's some pretty compelling reports that Hill and Knowlton
provided witnesses, wrote their testimony, and coached the heck out
of them and here's the other thing. It pretty much worked,
didn't it. Well, that's what history would say because at
the time, the emotional atmosphere based on this atrocity compelled

(40:44):
people to say, you know, it equated saying this story
doesn't add up to becoming a fan of pulling children
out of incubators and tossing them on the hospital floors.
How could you speak against this story when it was happening,
right because of this emotional equivalency. Now, I only say
that because it's interesting and with I'm going to go

(41:08):
out and say it, guys understanding where what um? I
understand the offensive nature of the the whole theories or
the approach people are taking with those theories, and no,
I'm on board with you. I think that there is
a certain amount of offensiveness and just in the lack

(41:29):
of empathy or the lack of consideration when people have
actually died. These events that we're talking about are not
uh Fort Polk scenarios where someone stubs their thumb pretending
to be a villager. Right, These people, men, women, and
children died in many ways, were execute, were murdered, and

(41:53):
two and then and there's a very valid argument that
to explore those kind of things, or to accuse people
who somehow survived the tragedy of being Charlatan's demeans not
only then but degrades the value of the life's laws.
I think a sort of a slightly less extreme example

(42:14):
that's happening right now can be found in some of
the things UM presidential candidate Donald Trump finds himself saying,
you know, describing groups of of of Muslims having tailgate
parties watching the World Trade Center's collapse, completely unverifiable, no
one's found any footage of it, but he won't back

(42:34):
down from it. And it's just a way of dividing people,
and UM, it's something that people who share his perspective,
perhaps UM can latch onto and use it to fuel
their anger. And I think a lot of these alleged
um UH incidents of crisis actors could be intended to

(42:55):
do the same thing. And like what you're talking about
with h yeah, with nurse no Riyah, UM clearly an
attempt to shift public opinion, and that can be done
in small and large ways. And I think, you know,
Trump is a good example of a bit of a
propaganda machine, you know, I mean a lot of the

(43:15):
things he says can't be verified. We've heard some great
you not to get too political, but we have heard
some fantastic and fascinating conspiracy theories, specifically about Donald Trump
and specifically you know about well Bernie Sanders and Hillary
Clinton as well. And we have a pretty we have

(43:37):
a pretty compelling episode about the Federal Election Commission which
goes a long way and I personally believe that one,
which goes a long way towards explaining why, uh, it's
so difficult to rest control from the dichotomy of the
two party system. Yeah, third parties have no chance basically

(43:59):
when it comes to getting time on television with debates. Yeah,
it's uh, it's it's stuff, but you can. You can
watch that video. The only drawback to that video, I
would say, is that Noll's not in it. Yeah, it's
just you and I. I'm okay with that. Oh yeah whatever. No,
we did a great job. Have you seen it? We

(44:20):
we both we take sides campaigning. No oh no, no,
I need to dig into the back catalog. It would
have been good because then we could have done a
real third party. It would have been really good. If
I had remembered a red tie because in the video
we were both wearing blue ties, and I feel like, oh, yeah,
that was a bad move, Matt. At the time, I
think I only owned one tie. No wait, that's not true.

(44:42):
I have two ties. One is black. That's the only
kind of have. I guess if we're just not really talking,
I'm sorry, guys, I didn't it was. I watched a
great episode of Futurama last night where it was about
a presidential election for president of the world, and all
three candidates were clones and they were wearing the same
exact outfit, had the an exact voice, and I'll have
the pretty much same exact opinions, only just ever so

(45:05):
slightly tweaked. And then the third party candidate was Robot
Richard Nixon with he had stolen Bender's body. Just just
one thing that reminds me absolutely of a great, a
great book which I recommend called the Illuminatous Trilogy. Have
you guys heard about this? Friend of mine? Just turn
me onto it, and um, I've been meaning to to

(45:26):
really dig into it. So it's it's pretty darn good.
Written by a guy named Robert she a guy named
Robert Anton Wilson, which a lot of you guys out
there listeners will already recognize that second name. But I
mentioned this because there's a part in that there's a
part in that book where they're describing leaders of the world,

(45:47):
and it doesn't happen consecutively. It will be one leader
who's like the president of the United States, one leader
as a president of somewhere else whatever. And what they
did that was so clever is they take the same
exact pograph and they change it so that you know
it's about the one person, and then it just occurs
in the book. And I thought, I thought it was brilliant. Plus,

(46:08):
you know, it's saves time on writing. But isn't that
the didn't that inspire the Illuminati the game? I I
feel like that's before Yeah, I can see them being
tied together. But no, no spoilers. For anyone who wants
to read it, do check it out. I know it
looks like a hefty tone, but it's a pretty it's

(46:30):
a pretty fast read too. Well, if you guys don't
have anything else, I feel like we should maybe do
some listener mail. Yeah, so this one is from Melissa. Hi, guys,
I love the show, but lately you keep doing that
thing where you pose questions that you don't answer. On
the Ghost podcast, you all discuss whether Christians believe in

(46:51):
ghosts but didn't have any information on it. It drives
me crazy, and you guys have been so good about
it so far. Maybe you could try to keep track
of when that happens and add an extra section at
the end after you've checked out. Um, that is all
on me. Uh Lately, I feel like I have just
been willy nilly posing questions that just pop into my head,
and sometimes we do get away from the answers. I

(47:11):
do think though, that Matt had a good point about
whether Christians believe in ghosts or not, and simply because
of you know, the fact that they have the Holy
Ghost and the Holy Trinity and the idea of the afterlife,
it feels like they'd be more prone to believe in ghosts.
And that's kind of where we left it, But probably
a little more research into that would be appropriate. Any

(47:32):
question is any question worth asking is worth finding an
answer to. That's my response on it, and I'm i
am excited about the idea of setting up something a
segment wherein we could address things like that. Maybe beyond
listener mail. But the only way to know that is
for uh, is for listeners to respond like you just did, Melissa,

(47:56):
and we appreciate it, and we certainly appreciate the time
listening to this show. No promises, of course, because this
show is a work in progress, but we're going to
keep an eye on that. And thank you again for writing.
Does somebody else have a listener mail really fast? I
want to jump in and say thanks to Edward for
sending sending over a killer track. It was awesome. He

(48:16):
was responding to you know about the Guidestones documentary that
you made, and he sent over a track called Encounter
at RUA nineteen. It was great. I loved it. Have
you not heard this? Ye have not heard this yet?
Oh man? All right, well can we play it on
the podcast. I don't know if there's any copyrighted stuff
in there. I think he made it, but he sampled

(48:40):
some flutes that I I don't know, So Edward, you'll
have to get back to us and then maybe we
can play it. Edward, I'm sorry I didn't hear that.
I will definitely go digging through the the old end
box and and uh, you know, listen, give that one
a listen. So thanks for listening and thanks for responding.
I'm glad you like the guys tones doc. So if
you want to join in in this converse station and

(49:00):
all the conversations that we have here into the future,
you can contact us. We are all over the internet.
We are on Twitter, we're on Facebook conspiracy Stuff at
both of those. You can just send us your suggestions.
Most of our best suggestions come from you, guys, and uh,
we really like hearing from you. We like hearing feedback.
We'd like to know what you think, So please hit

(49:22):
us up, talk to us, hang out with us there.
And if you don't want to mess with any of
the social media stuff, you can just send us a
good old fashioned electronic message at conspiracy at how stuff
works dot com from one on this topic and other

(49:43):
unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. You
can also get in touch on Twitter at the handle
at conspiracy Stuff.

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