September 11, 2024 • 42 mins
The role of AI in the classroom is evolving rapidly. When students and teachers embrace this technology, it has the ability to democratize access to education through programs like IBM SkillsBuild. In this episode of Smart Talks with IBM, Dr. Laurie Santos, host of Pushkin’s The Happiness Labpodcast, spoke with two innovators in the space. Justina Nixon-Saintil is Vice President and Chief Impact Officer, IBM Corporate Social Responsibility, and April Dawson is an Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation and a professor of law. They discuss the importance of lifelong learning, upskilling, and the ethical implications of AI in education.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, it's Robert and Joe here. Today we've got
something a little bit different to share with you. It
is a new season of the Smart Talks with IBM
podcast series.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Today we are witnessed to one of those rare moments
in history, the rise of an innovative technology with the
potential to radically transform business and society forever. The technology,
of course, is artificial intelligence, and it's the central focus
for this new season of Smart Talks with IBM.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Join hosts from your favorite Pushkin podcasts as they talk
with industry experts and leaders to explore how businesses can
integrate AI into their workflows and help drive real change
in this new era of AI. And of course, host
Malcolm Gladwell will be there to guide you through the
season and throw in his two cents as well.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Look out for new episodes of Smart Talks with IBM
every other week on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts, and learn more at IBM
dot com slash smart talks.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hello. Hello, Welcome to Smart Talk with IBM, a podcast
from Pushkin Industries, iHeartRadio and IBM. I'm Malcolm Glabwell. This
season we're diving back into the world of artificial intelligence,
but with a focus on the powerful concept of open
its possibilities, implications, and misconceptions. We'll look at openness from
(01:19):
a variety of angles and explore how the concept is
already reshaping industries, ways of doing business, and our very
notion of what's possible. On today's episode, doctor Lori Santos
sat down with two women at the forefront of AI
in education. Justina Nixon Saniel is Vice President and Chief
(01:40):
Impact Officer of IBM Corporate Social Responsibility, and April Dawson
is an Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation and Professor
of Law at North Carolina Central University School of Law. Together,
they explore the transformative impact of AI on education and
the workforce. As technology rapidly evolves, industries are being reshaped
(02:05):
and the demand for new skills is at an all
time high. This is opening up opportunities for diverse talent,
enabling individuals from various backgrounds to excel in roles they
might not have previously considered. They also address the ethical
considerations of AI, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a human
(02:25):
centered approach, whether you're a teacher or a student or
someone interested in the future of work, It's essential to
embrace the role of AI in the education landscape. AI
is not only changing the way we work, but also
how we learn, making education more accessible, personalized, and aligned
with the demands of the modern job market.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Justin Andennepel, so great to meet both of you. I'm
so excited for this conversation. Thank you for having me,
and thank you for.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Having me Justina.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
To start, could you share some insights on your journey
to becoming IBM's Chief Impact Officer and how your background
in engineering shapes your approach to corporate social responsibility.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
So I've had an interest in journey. I'm an immigrant.
I was one of the only black women who graduated
from my school's mechanical engineering program many many years ago.
I started my engineering career at a nuclear facility that's
around forty five miles outside of Buffalo, New York, and
eventually worked for one of the largest telecommunications companies in
(03:31):
the world in engineering, marketing, and eventually in corporate social responsibility.
I was hired to lead the organization away from traditional
philanthropy to creating platforms and solutions that leveraged four G
and five g technologies to positively impact disadvantaged communities, and
that is what has led me to the work that
(03:52):
I do at IBM today. I have the honor of
being the company's first Chief Impact Officer, and is such
a privilege and a responsibility to be at IBM, which
has such a huge history in sustainability, in social and
in the ethical space as well. When I consider how
my background in engineering ties into the work that I do,
(04:14):
I actually think engineers are very skilled at analyzing data
and at innovative problem solving. The other thing where there's
a lot of alignment with my engineering background is really
around how do I think about using technology to solve
some of the biggest issues that we have in society.
(04:35):
And I get very excited about innovating and creating and
leveraging technologies like AI and hybrid cloud to really bring
those into the work that we do and to solve
some of those big challenges that we have in society
today around sustainability and education.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
That's fabulous, April, tell me about your path to becoming
Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation as well as a
professor in law.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
So I am a child of an educator, actually educators
Both my parents are educators. I went to high school
where my mom taught, and it was in the eighties
and it was during that time period when teachers were
given Apple computers, so they were brand new. My mom
brought one home. I started playing with it. Then I
(05:18):
just kind of fell in love with the technology. I
received my undergraduate degree in computer science because of that
early exposure. I went to Bennett College here in Greensboro,
North Carolina. It's an HBCU, a historically black college and university.
I was a programmer after graduating from Bennett, and I've
always loved technology, but I also had a love for
(05:42):
the law. So after being a programmer for a couple
of years, I decided to go to law school. And
even as a lawyer, I leveraged technology in my private practice.
When I decided to begin teaching almost twenty years ago,
I would ask myself, how could I leverage a technology
to enhance my teaching to help the students better understand
(06:03):
the material. And so when our dean at the time,
Brownie Lewis, when she was able to facilitate a five
million dollar grant to North Carolina Central University School of Law,
we created the Technology Law and Policy Center, and she
asked me if I would be interested in serving as
the inaugural Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation. So suffice
(06:28):
it to say, I'm in my dream job. I'm able
to combine my love of technology, my love of law,
my love of education, and so it's really an exciting
time to be in a position like I have.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I love that, April, what inspired you to integrate AI
and technology into your law curriculum.
Speaker 6 (06:46):
It's interesting, As I mentioned before, I've always used it
personally as an educator, but the thought of teaching a
class that really kind of focused on technology and the
legal implications of that really occurred because Ray Thomas, who
was an IP lawyer and worked at IBM at the
(07:07):
time in twenty twenty so around the pandemic, he encouraged
us to take advantage of the IBM Skills Build training program,
the Train the Trainer program. So really, not until that
time period did I even really even think about teaching
a tech focused legal class. And during that time period,
a couple of my other colleagues and I we did
(07:29):
the Train the Trainer blockchain course. I did the data
science course, and then that next summer we team taught
the Blockchain for Lawyer's class, which we designed, and then
I taught a Data Science for Lawyers class, and so
that was, you know, really kind of the first iteration
of us really being intentional about teaching technology and law.
(07:52):
And then one of my other colleagues, doctor Savon Da Grady,
she is a professor at the School of Library and
Information Sciences here at NCCU. She reached out to me
and said, would you be interesting in teaching a joint
AI and the law class that would include her Masters
of Information Science students and my law students. So it's
(08:12):
a wonderful interdisciplinary class where you have master's students and
law students and we talk about the foundations of AI,
we talk about the legal implications of policy implications. And
so really this kind of all started because of the
resources that IBM have made available to NCCU.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
That's so cool, and that class sounds amazing. I wish
I could like drop out of being a professor I
done this class. This sounds awesome. So this is a
question for both of you. In this age of AI
and open technology, does the role of education change? Are
we kind of at a different spot with what education
should be doing now.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
When I look at the role of education today from
the corporate point of view, I think it does change.
I was having a discussion earlier today with some members
of my team, and we were discussing early professional hires,
so people would want to hire right out of college,
and one of the first things that I shared was
(09:12):
some of the tasks that they would have done previously
will be automated. We will be using AI for those
basic tasks that in the past we would have hired
an intern or a recent college graduate to do. And
it's so critical now that we look at higher level
(09:32):
types of tasks that we will need college graduates to do.
And I can foresee in the future hiring someone from
college who does not have at least a basic understanding
of AI. There will be some roles where they will
have to have an advanced understanding, especially if they're in
an engineering role or computer science role, but across the
(09:54):
board they will need to understand AI. So, when I
think about the way that education is changing, whether you're
a college student, whether you're an adult professional, you will
need to be a lifelong learner and you will need
to understand how to continuously upskill and reskill yourself to
be able to understand technologies like AI because of the
(10:16):
rapid acceleration of these types of technologies, and I think
that's very important. I think everyone has to be prepared,
if they're not doing it today, to upskill and reskill themselves.
And I can't foresee any roles in the future where
candidates will not need to have a very basic understanding
of AI or even advanced understanding of AI.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
That's great, April. Let me ask you a slightly different
version of the question, what is the significance of AI
for students and young professionals today?
Speaker 6 (10:46):
When we think about the disruption that JENAI especially has
caused within the legal profession, students have to be more
adept when it comes to feeling comfortable, being uncomfortable, and
learning something new. The other thing that I would just
kind of emphasize from an educational standpoint is this also
means that educators have to approach teaching differently. You know,
(11:10):
I've been teaching for going on twenty years and things
are kind of being turned on their heads somewhat right,
and I have had to upskill and reskill. We can't
teach that what we don't know, we can't monitor that
what we don't know. Just as the students have to
understand generative AI, the educators have to understand it as well.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Yeah, this is something I've felt in the classroom myself
as a psychology professor, right, is that I'm realizing how
much I need to kind of go back to school
and learn about all these AI tools, not just so
that I can teach it, but just so I can
understand how my students are using these things, right, but
also to figure out how I can enhance the educational
experience of my own students in psychology right by giving
(11:53):
them access to these tools. And so, yeah, I'm curious
in your experience, how does AI actually enhance the educationally
experience for your law students. And I'm curious if you
could give an example of the type of thing you
do in your classroom.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Yeah. So one of the things that I tell my
students is you got to get your hands dirty. You
can't understand these tools if you don't kind of dig
in and just see how they work. So one giving
them permission and encouraging them to do it in terms
of how they might be able to use these tools
to help them learn better. I encourage them to as
(12:28):
they're wrestling maybe with concepts that are confusing, they haven't
completely wrapped their heads around it. And when we think
about large language models, these tools are really helpful in
that sense. Right, if there's a passage in the book
and you're not quite following it, or there's a case
right and you need some assistance in breaking it down,
(12:50):
running that information through a large language model and then
asking questions about it can be really beneficial. Also in
the law school, the legal context, large languge models are
really helpful for that as well. But one thing I
do caution my students is that any understanding that you
think you have gained through the use of these tools,
you need to circle back to your professor and make
(13:12):
sure that your understanding is correct.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I love that, and I've seen the importance of that
in my own classroom too. You mentioned so many of
the things that these tools are great at, but I
think another thing that AI in the classroom can help
us with is democratizing the classroom. And so, Justina, I'm
curious in what ways do you think integrating AI into
education is help us going to bridge these gaps and
actually democratize access to education even more.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Yeah, I think it's going to really make a difference
in providing access to education in many different ways. I
want to give you an example. Through our IBM Skills
Bill program, we're infusing AI technology into the platform to
create a more personalized enhance experience for learners in every language.
(13:55):
So we are creating personalized learning pathways, we are tailoring
the access to our learners to meet their individual needs,
and we are also using AI to answer questions in
a more timely and accurate manner. If you really think
about it, you will need a significant staff to be
able to respond quickly to questions to make sure the
(14:17):
questions are accurate. With AI, we can answer questions immediately,
we can answer them in a more sophisticated way than
we did in the past, and we can also offer
cost recommendations and learning pathways that meet their needs. We
have courses such as AI Ethics and prompt Writing and
getting started with machine Learning, all the way to actually
(14:40):
use in coding to help create these large language models.
So when you think about the average learner that we
are working with, they may want just an introductory course
on AI ethics or understanding how to use AI in
their day to day work, or they actually may want
to understand how do you so really leverage a code
(15:01):
for a large language model, And I think it's important
to give them all the different options and create those
personalized learning pathways for them. The other thing around really
democratizing opportunities to provide free access to this kind of learning,
and we do that again through our Skills Bill program.
If you have courses that you can only pay to access,
(15:24):
then you're really not given the opportunity for everyone to
advance and to learn. So by leveraging AI on our
platform but also providing that free access, we're really helping
to breage the gap, you know, for learners and make
sure they can upskill and reskill themselves and help them
also increase social and economic mobility.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
So it sounds like an amazing program. Justina, Can you
describe the vision behind IBM Skills Build and how it's
built to reach so many learners around the world.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
So, IBM has always been committed to investing in the
future of work and with offered educational experiences for many,
many years. And IBM Skills Built is a program. Again,
it's free, it's open, anyone can access it, but it's
really around getting access to the right technical skills and
(16:15):
workplace learning skills so that you could be prepared for
a career in technology, but in any industry and any field.
We know now that understanding technology, understanding AI or cybersecurity
or any of those tech topics are needed whether you're
working in a tech company, or whether you're working in
(16:36):
retail or in legal or any of these different industries.
So we want to make sure we could provide that
access to learners. In twenty twenty one, we launched a
global commitment to skill thirty million people by twenty thirty
and we are making significant progress against that goal. Just
last year, we reported that we skilled eleven point five
million learners around the world, and these are learners that
(16:59):
enrolled in IBM courses, including access in our platform, IBM
Skills Build, and it's really the cornerstone of our education
work at IBM. We really focus on scaling our work
through partnerships. So we partner with historically black colleges and universities,
and that's how, of course, we got the chance to
(17:20):
meet April. We partner with nonprofit organizations across the globe.
We also partner with governments to make sure we provide
that free access to the communities that are aligned with
their national agenda around skill in and those communities that
are most in need. It's really important that we scale
the program through those premier partnerships, so that's extremely important
(17:43):
to us.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
The vision behind IBM Skills Build is truly inspiring. In
a world where technology is changing every industry, having access
to these crucial skills is more important than ever. This
initiative is breaking down barriers and in suring that people
from all walks of life can participate in the future
of work. In order to effectively scale a platform, the
(18:08):
strategic collaborations with educational institutions, nonprofits and governments are key.
It's clear that IBM is deeply invested in creating long
lasting change in communities around the world. This approach will
strengthen the workforce globally, helping to bridge the digital divide
and create more equitable opportunities in the tech space.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
So now we're shifting gears to think a little bit
about the real world insights. Justina, what can you tell
us about the skills first movement? This seems to be
an open approach to attracting top talent. What are you
hearing from students and partners.
Speaker 6 (18:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
So IBM has been leading the skills first movement for
quite some time. And one of the things that we realized,
and we actually tested this out, is that you don't
always need a four year degree to be successful at
a tech job. So when we looked at the job
postings that we had, we decided to make a commitment
(19:06):
to have at least fifty percent of our job postings
not requiring a four year degree. And when we started
hiring people without a four year degree in certain roles,
we realized that they were as successful as those with
a four year degree. Now, this doesn't work across the board,
but this is really a way to get access to
(19:28):
what I consider to be untapped talent that are skilled
in different ways. Maybe they've had some experiences already, maybe
they have a different set of badges and certificates or
other credentials that can support them getting access to some
of the roles that are offered by companies. So this
is really a way to help address the opportunity gap
(19:50):
and provide a pathway for diverse talent.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
What impact do you think AI has had on global
learning standards broadly so far.
Speaker 6 (20:00):
I think from the perspective of a law student realizing
that this little universe in which we kind of thought
we might operate has expanded. When we think about AI
and we think about the implications of AI, it goes
far beyond our state national I mean, you have to
have an understanding of what's going on in other countries.
So even when we're thinking about the regulation of AI
(20:22):
and the governance of AI and policies surrounding AI, it
means you have to be open to learning about what's
happening in other countries where AI is disrupting those spaces
as well. So again, I think it really underscores for
our law students how you have to see yourself as
part of a larger team. Lawyers don't work in isolation,
(20:45):
and it's really good that law students are recognizing that
while they're still in school.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
So it really seems like these technologies are kind of
changing the learning experience in law by making kind of
broader and maybe more global. Justin can you share any
example of how IBM Skills build has made a significant
difference in other kinds of learning journeys?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:05):
Absolutely, I mean this is one of the most rewarding
parts of my job. What I get excited about is
when I travel and I meet with students who have
been a part of IBM Skills Build and they have
been able to use the learning, the certificates, the opportunities
that we've provided them around mentorship as well to be
able to move into a better paying job or a
(21:27):
new job that they did not have the opportunity previously.
We had one of our learners, his name was Oscar
and he arrived in California from Mexico when he was
around five years old and he worked and he attended
college full time. But during his last semester, he was
introduced to the IBM Skills Build program through the Hispanic
(21:47):
Heritage Foundation, one of our partners, and through the career
assessment tool of the program, he identified areas where he
could excel and it allowed him to dig deeper into
learning paths that match his interests and his skills. So
he started taking cosses such as AI Fundamentals, he earned credentials,
and he was able to get a better role when
(22:10):
he graduated from college. So we have so many beneficiaries
of the program who have been able to access the training,
also access the mentorship that we provide through the program
and able to get a better pain on new job
because of it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
That's fabulous, April. I know your students have used IBM
skills builled. Can you give us an example of how
it's made an important impact on a student's journey.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Yes, absolutely so. I mentioned that we taught a Blockchain
for Lawyers class and one of the students had a
big interest in blockchain cryptocurrency. He actually also had a
master's in information science and so he was a dual
degree student. He was also in my AI and the
(22:54):
law class, so he not only got the blockchain certificate,
he got the AI Foundation certificate. It he wound up
being the editor in chief of the law journal and
he is a legal tech lawyer. And so this kind
of goes back to what Justina was saying about making
sure that the talent that's there has access to the resources.
It really does make a big difference in so many
(23:16):
of our students' lives.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
That's such an inspiring story, Justina. I'm curious what impact
Skills Build has had on the communities you work with,
maybe even beyond just students.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Yeah, so it has had a tremendous impact in our communities.
I think one of the big things about digital skills
and upskill in and reskilling is not just in certain areas.
For example, I mentioned the story of Oscar who was
graduating from college got access to Skills Build. It helped
(23:47):
him get a better paying job. But we have programs
in sustainability as well where we are working with farmers
in the middle of Texas and we are providing access
to skills Build as well so that they can use
the technology and understand the technology that we are bringing
to them throughout Sustainability Accelerator program. And what's so interesting
(24:08):
about this is we need to upskill and reskill them
as well. Right, So if you think about certain jobs
where you just need to better understand the data or
the technology, our partnerships with nonprofits to be able to
bring it to people in different fields, and sustainability is
one that we focus on as well that has been
inspiring to me. We also have programs where we focus
(24:30):
on girls, especially in India, and make sure we're giving
them access to this kind of training and mentorship again
to make them competitive in the marketplace, to make sure
that they have an opportunity at a good paying job
and that they could be independent. So our global partners
work with us on leveraging skills, build curating it in
(24:53):
a way that makes sense for their communities that they
want to impact. And we focus on women who have
left the work and they want to return. We focus
on veterans. We focus on black communities in the US
or Hispanic communities. So we really look at those really
great global partnerships and make sure we are bringing in
(25:13):
people who would have been otherwise left out of the
tech field and giving them the opportunity to reskill and
upskill themselves, and helping them through our partnerships, connect to
good paying jobs as well.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
So so far we've been focused on students in their learning,
but now I want to turn to both of your learning.
I'm curious, what are some challenges that you've faced in
your careers and how have you overcome them?
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Yeah. Sure. So one of the things that I quickly
found out was that law school was not as I envisioned.
You kind of go in, you think it's one thing,
it's another. The curriculum can be very surprising. It's not
like the undergraduate curriculum. And I just had to kind
of reach out and develop mentors. And I was very
(25:59):
lucky in that I had a number of individuals who
provided me with a tremendous amount of support, and I
think that's one of the reasons why I love teaching
so much, is to be able to support the students
and just help them kind of build their community and
their network so they can excel and then they can
reach back and help others excel as well.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I love that. Justina, same question. What are some key
challenges that you've faced in your career and how have
you overcome them?
Speaker 5 (26:27):
Yeah, I'm smiling because what April mentioned is exactly the
experience I've had. I was one of the only black
women to graduate from my school's mechanical engineering program, and
when my children were very young, I also stepped away
from the workforce for several years to focus on them.
And I don't think I would be successful today without
(26:51):
the help of mentors. They're the ones that really helped
me to be successful, to understand the corporate environment, to
connect me with with other opportunities, and I think it's
important to me to make myself available to others, and
that's a really big part of what I do. I
want to make myself at my field more representative of
(27:13):
the work that we do and I want to make
sure that I provide access to others and give others
the same types of opportunities I have, and that's why
I do enjoy leading this type of work at IBM.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Here here to both of you giving back to the
students that we were back in the day. It's so important, Justina.
IBM has a goal of equipping thirty million learners with
technology skills by twenty thirty as part of the IBM
Skills Build programming. Why is this initiative important and how
is IBM planning to exactly achieve this.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
Yeah, we believe the talent gap is one of the
biggest challenges that we face in society today. So AI
of course is accelerating this movement and there's more of
a sense of urgency. However, we know that there is
a significant talent gap and that there are many people
that are disadvantage who are not getting access to the
(28:05):
right opportunities, and that's why we made the commitment to
skill thirty million people by twenty thirty, and that's why
we're providing free access to programs like IBM Skills Build
with over a thousand courses in twenty languages, to make
them accessible to all and to give others the chance
to be successful. Last year, we also announced the commitment
(28:26):
to train two million people in AI over the next
three years, because again we understand the importance of AI
and understanding it to be successful in any job, especially
an entry level job. So we're continuing to expand our
AI offerings because we know that it is exacerbating the
(28:47):
talent gap and we know that these skills will be
in demand significantly by corporations.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
So, April, Justina just mentioned, you know, all the changes
that we're seeing at AI. I'm curious what role you
think educators play in terms of making students aware of
all these technological and societal changes happening in their fields.
Speaker 6 (29:07):
Yeah, educators are so vital. And one of the things
that I've noticed is that students who have not engaged
with the tech have not done so either because an educator,
a teacher or professor has told them not to that
you know, they just say, you know, no, you can't
use it, or they haven't said anything at all, They
haven't encouraged them to look into it to try it.
(29:31):
And we have to encourage students to become familiar with
these tools for all the reasons that Justina mentioned in
terms of what the workforce is demanding. But also if
we don't provide them with guidance, then there's the real
chance that they will use them inappropriately. So we have
to provide them with permission to dive in. We have
(29:55):
to teach them how to use these tools ethically, with integrity,
what are the best practices? And again that kind of
goes back to something I mentioned before, which I speak
about a lot, is that it requires educators to themselves
learn about these tools. And that's one of the reasons
why I was so appreciative of the trainer program because
(30:17):
again we started offering courses at the Law School, because
these courses were provided free of charge, of course to
our faculty, so we were able to upskill and reskill
and then turn around and share that with our students.
So educators are vital. But I also think that we
need to make sure we do a better job as
(30:40):
a society of supporting our educators so that they can
gain the knowledge and then pay that forward to the students.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Right because not everybody's providing the kinds of free resources
the IBM provides. We're teachers who really need it. April
in what ways has IBM Skills Build changed your perspective
on the potential of AI and education.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
Well as far as the potential, it makes it so
much easier, right, I mean, it lightens the lift for educators.
If I had to design the AI Foundations class, you know,
ground up, there's no way I could have done that.
And if we're thinking about exposing students, regardless of their
area of study to AI or to technology, those that
(31:28):
are experts in those particular spaces, they're not going to
be able to build those courses. So having something like
IBM Skills Build available so that we can you know,
design a course around those modules that are already put
together is incredibly helpful. And so it means the potential
of providing AI education to all students. It just really
(31:51):
increases the possibility, which is good for all of us.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Justina, as you think about your work at IBM, how
do you balance the need for technological innovation with the
importance of maintaining a human centered approach and education.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
I really like how April touched on ethics earlier, because
it is so important that we continue to make sure
the human is at the center of everything that we
do and that we are protecting people. Even as we
foster innovation with AI and the way that IBM has
done that, we've had reasonable policies and guardrails in place
(32:28):
around everything that we do around AI. I'm actually a
part of our AI Ethics Board. We meet on a
regular basis to discuss cases, to discuss technology, and we
actually have discussions and make decisions on what is the
right thing to do, and we are always considering a
human centered approach. How do we make sure that we
(32:51):
are protecting people and how do we make sure that
we have their voice in every decision that we make.
We have three principles around trust and transparency, and the
first is the purpose of AI is to augment human intelligence,
not replace it. The second is that data and insights
belong to their creators, So with anyone that we work with,
(33:14):
we make sure that we protect their data insights and
it belongs to them, it doesn't belong to us. And
then any new technology, including any AI products, systems, platforms,
must be transparent and explainable. So I think that's important
to have those types of principles in place. I'm proud
to be a part of the AI Ethics Board making
(33:35):
decisions around how AI is deployed, and I think making
sure that we continue to keep humans people at the
center of every decision we make around innovation is how
we protect them.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
So we've talked so much about all the changes that
are happening right now. Justin know, I kind of want
you to put on your like, you know, future prediction cap.
What future developments do you anticipate in the realm of
open education.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
I think that and I've been in education a very
long time, and I remember us talking about personalized learning
maybe ten years fifteen years ago, and I'm not sure
it ever came to fruition in the way that we imagined.
And we know that the teacher will always be the guide.
They will always be the one that's needed. I don't
(34:22):
think any technology will ever replace teachers, But I think
what AI can do is enhanced that experience by really
creating personalized learning content and experiences in the education space.
I think that is one of the things that I
would say should be something we see in the very
near future around the acceleration of AI.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
April, You've done so much elegant work teaching your students
about AI and technology. I'm curious what advice you have
for other educators and technologists looking to advocate for a
skills first approach or more AI training for their students,
what advice will you have for with them?
Speaker 6 (35:01):
The first piece of advice that I always give is
don't feel overwhelmed because you can. I mean, there's a
lot going on. It's hard to keep up with how
fast things are moving, even for those of us that
love this space. You don't have to do everything at once,
just you know, baby steps, and that's that's absolutely fine.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
As a professor, I have to say I needed to
hear that, so giving myself grace taking that one to heart.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
In fact, I have in my PowerPoint presentation the first
slide I put up is of a turtle and it
says slow your role. And it's like, I'm going to
be talking about a lot of things, but I want
you to remember this slide, just slow your role. It's okay.
The other thing that I encourage professors to do is
to join an educator community group. And there are a
(35:46):
lot that have popped up as a result of jin
ai and the disruption that we're seeing just in the
education space, and so how can we crowd source our
advice without a doubt. If you're thinking about a particular
assignment and how you might use Jenai in crafting that
assignment or incorporating it in the assessment, there is a
(36:07):
professor out there who has either already done it or
they're also thinking about it. So you know, let's be
more collaborative. And I will say that's been really wonderful
for me as a law professor, being able to collaborate
with professors from other disciplines. And the last thing that
(36:27):
I would say, you know, sometimes it can be hard
to convince your colleagues within your institution to be progressive,
and if you can bring an outside speaker to come
in and kind of just share what's going on, that
can oftentimes get people moving even if you within the
building aren't able to get that same traction. So those
(36:50):
are kind of the three pieces of advice that I'll
typically give professors.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
So this has been a fabulous conversation that we are
reaching the end of our time. But before we rap,
let's do a speed round. Ready, first question April first,
complete this sentence. In five years, AI will blank.
Speaker 6 (37:11):
In five years, AI will be more fully leveraged to
help lawyers better serve their clients. More efficiently and will
help close the access to justice gap.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Nice justin the same question.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
In five years, AI will have disrupted every industry and
there would have been significant advancements made in education and
sustainability with the use of AI.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Okay, speed round question number two. What is the number
one thing that people misunderstand about AI?
Speaker 5 (37:47):
Justin at you first, The number one misunderstanding about AI
is that it's going to destroy everyone's jobs. I think
that people with AI skills or understanding of AI will
have some advantages in the workplace.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
April.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
The number one thing people misunderstand about AI is that
only computer scientists or mathematicians or engineers can understand it.
You can gain an understanding again through baby steps, and
there are so many resources available. If you explore the
(38:22):
information and bite sized pieces, you can begin to wrap
your head around it.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Okay, next speed around question, what advice would you give
yourself ten years ago to better prepare you for today?
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Justina you first, The advice I would give myself ten
years ago is to continue learning. I always love understanding technology.
I always dove deep into whether it's machine learning or
four G and five G technologies. Understanding AI and hybrid
cloud today is something that I also enjoy doing, so
(38:55):
I would say continue learning, continue diving into these technologies,
continue understanding what it means for you and your future career, April.
Speaker 6 (39:05):
Be more interdisciplinary, so stay current with the evolution of
computer science, but also incorporate the study of data and
ethics and sociology because the challenges they're opposed by AI
they're multifaceted and you have to have an understanding in
(39:26):
these areas to really address the promise and the challenges
of AI.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Final speed round question, how are you already using AI
in your day to day life today?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
April.
Speaker 6 (39:38):
So I use it in my teaching. The other way
that I plan on using it in the future is
serving the students and then using the data analysis tool
to help me gather that information and figure out how
best to address the information that I've received from my students.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Nice, Justina, Yeah, So the way that we're using AI
today is to actually analyze complex and large data sets
in our sustainability work to provide insights to some of
our partners on how they can increase crop yield, for example,
or how they can deliver clean energy solutions to rural areas.
(40:18):
So we actively using it in the programs that we
have within our corporate Social Responsibility portfolio and also integrating
it into our Skills Bill platform.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Well, thank you both so much. You did excellent in
the speed round, but it was just so fabulous to
talk to you both today. I think this is a
time of so many exciting challenges in the field of education,
and it was fabulous to hear more about how AI
and IBM Skills Build and so many technologies can help
us out. Thank you both so much for this fun conversation.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Thank you for having us. It was great.
Speaker 6 (40:50):
Yes, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
What an insightful conversation with Justina and April. This discussion
demonstrated how technology and education can intersect to create a
meaningful impact in today's educational landscape. Students must utilize AI
in the classroom in order to prepare for the modern workforce,
and educators must use the technology, including IBM Skills Build,
(41:16):
to train students for the complexities of tomorrow's challenges. As
April and Justina emphasized, impact starts by centering the humans
using the tool. Ensuring their empowered to access, adopt, and
excel with the technology is just as critical as the
power of the tool itself. Justina and April's work is
(41:38):
a powerful reminder that as we continue to integrate AI
technology into our educational systems, we have the opportunity to
create more equitable and accessible learning environments. It's clear that
the future of learning and technology is bright and the
adoption of AI is crucial in shaping that future. Smart
(42:01):
Talks with IBM is produced by Matt Romano, Joey fish Ground,
Amy Gains McQuaid, and Jacob Goldstein or edited by Lydia
gene Kott. Our engineers are Sarah Bugaer and Ben Tolliday.
Theme song by Gramoscope Special thanks to the eight Bar
and IBM teams, as well as the Pushkin marketing team.
Smart Talks with IBM is a production of Pushkin Industries
(42:24):
and Ruby Studio at iHeartMedia. To find more Pushkin podcasts,
listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to podcasts. I'm Malcolm Glapa. This is a paid
advertisement from IBM. The conversations on this podcast don't necessarily
represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.
Hey everyone, it's Robert and Joe here. Today we've got
something a little bit different to share with you. It
is a new season of the Smart Talks with IBM
podcast series.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Today we are witnessed to one of those rare moments
in history, the rise of an innovative technology with the
potential to radically transform business and society forever. The technology,
of course, is artificial intelligence, and it's the central focus
for this new season of Smart Talks with IBM.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Join hosts from your favorite Pushkin podcasts as they talk
with industry experts and leaders to explore how businesses can
integrate AI into their workflows and help drive real change
in this new era of AI. And of course, host
Malcolm Gladwell will be there to guide you through the
season and throw in his two cents as well.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Look out for new episodes of Smart Talks with IBM
every other week on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts, and learn more at IBM
dot com slash smart talks.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Hello. Hello, Welcome to Smart Talk with IBM, a podcast
from Pushkin Industries, iHeartRadio and IBM. I'm Malcolm Glabwell. This
season we're diving back into the world of artificial intelligence,
but with a focus on the powerful concept of open
its possibilities, implications, and misconceptions. We'll look at openness from
(01:19):
a variety of angles and explore how the concept is
already reshaping industries, ways of doing business, and our very
notion of what's possible. On today's episode, doctor Lori Santos
sat down with two women at the forefront of AI
in education. Justina Nixon Saniel is Vice President and Chief
(01:40):
Impact Officer of IBM Corporate Social Responsibility, and April Dawson
is an Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation and Professor
of Law at North Carolina Central University School of Law. Together,
they explore the transformative impact of AI on education and
the workforce. As technology rapidly evolves, industries are being reshaped
(02:05):
and the demand for new skills is at an all
time high. This is opening up opportunities for diverse talent,
enabling individuals from various backgrounds to excel in roles they
might not have previously considered. They also address the ethical
considerations of AI, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a human
(02:25):
centered approach, whether you're a teacher or a student or
someone interested in the future of work, It's essential to
embrace the role of AI in the education landscape. AI
is not only changing the way we work, but also
how we learn, making education more accessible, personalized, and aligned
with the demands of the modern job market.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Justin Andennepel, so great to meet both of you. I'm
so excited for this conversation. Thank you for having me,
and thank you for.
Speaker 5 (02:59):
Having me Justina.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
To start, could you share some insights on your journey
to becoming IBM's Chief Impact Officer and how your background
in engineering shapes your approach to corporate social responsibility.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
So I've had an interest in journey. I'm an immigrant.
I was one of the only black women who graduated
from my school's mechanical engineering program many many years ago.
I started my engineering career at a nuclear facility that's
around forty five miles outside of Buffalo, New York, and
eventually worked for one of the largest telecommunications companies in
(03:31):
the world in engineering, marketing, and eventually in corporate social responsibility.
I was hired to lead the organization away from traditional
philanthropy to creating platforms and solutions that leveraged four G
and five g technologies to positively impact disadvantaged communities, and
that is what has led me to the work that
(03:52):
I do at IBM today. I have the honor of
being the company's first Chief Impact Officer, and is such
a privilege and a responsibility to be at IBM, which
has such a huge history in sustainability, in social and
in the ethical space as well. When I consider how
my background in engineering ties into the work that I do,
(04:14):
I actually think engineers are very skilled at analyzing data
and at innovative problem solving. The other thing where there's
a lot of alignment with my engineering background is really
around how do I think about using technology to solve
some of the biggest issues that we have in society.
(04:35):
And I get very excited about innovating and creating and
leveraging technologies like AI and hybrid cloud to really bring
those into the work that we do and to solve
some of those big challenges that we have in society
today around sustainability and education.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
That's fabulous, April, tell me about your path to becoming
Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation as well as a
professor in law.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
So I am a child of an educator, actually educators
Both my parents are educators. I went to high school
where my mom taught, and it was in the eighties
and it was during that time period when teachers were
given Apple computers, so they were brand new. My mom
brought one home. I started playing with it. Then I
(05:18):
just kind of fell in love with the technology. I
received my undergraduate degree in computer science because of that
early exposure. I went to Bennett College here in Greensboro,
North Carolina. It's an HBCU, a historically black college and university.
I was a programmer after graduating from Bennett, and I've
always loved technology, but I also had a love for
(05:42):
the law. So after being a programmer for a couple
of years, I decided to go to law school. And
even as a lawyer, I leveraged technology in my private practice.
When I decided to begin teaching almost twenty years ago,
I would ask myself, how could I leverage a technology
to enhance my teaching to help the students better understand
(06:03):
the material. And so when our dean at the time,
Brownie Lewis, when she was able to facilitate a five
million dollar grant to North Carolina Central University School of Law,
we created the Technology Law and Policy Center, and she
asked me if I would be interested in serving as
the inaugural Associate Dean of Technology and Innovation. So suffice
(06:28):
it to say, I'm in my dream job. I'm able
to combine my love of technology, my love of law,
my love of education, and so it's really an exciting
time to be in a position like I have.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I love that, April, what inspired you to integrate AI
and technology into your law curriculum.
Speaker 6 (06:46):
It's interesting, As I mentioned before, I've always used it
personally as an educator, but the thought of teaching a
class that really kind of focused on technology and the
legal implications of that really occurred because Ray Thomas, who
was an IP lawyer and worked at IBM at the
(07:07):
time in twenty twenty so around the pandemic, he encouraged
us to take advantage of the IBM Skills Build training program,
the Train the Trainer program. So really, not until that
time period did I even really even think about teaching
a tech focused legal class. And during that time period,
a couple of my other colleagues and I we did
(07:29):
the Train the Trainer blockchain course. I did the data
science course, and then that next summer we team taught
the Blockchain for Lawyer's class, which we designed, and then
I taught a Data Science for Lawyers class, and so
that was, you know, really kind of the first iteration
of us really being intentional about teaching technology and law.
(07:52):
And then one of my other colleagues, doctor Savon Da Grady,
she is a professor at the School of Library and
Information Sciences here at NCCU. She reached out to me
and said, would you be interesting in teaching a joint
AI and the law class that would include her Masters
of Information Science students and my law students. So it's
(08:12):
a wonderful interdisciplinary class where you have master's students and
law students and we talk about the foundations of AI,
we talk about the legal implications of policy implications. And
so really this kind of all started because of the
resources that IBM have made available to NCCU.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
That's so cool, and that class sounds amazing. I wish
I could like drop out of being a professor I
done this class. This sounds awesome. So this is a
question for both of you. In this age of AI
and open technology, does the role of education change? Are
we kind of at a different spot with what education
should be doing now.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
When I look at the role of education today from
the corporate point of view, I think it does change.
I was having a discussion earlier today with some members
of my team, and we were discussing early professional hires,
so people would want to hire right out of college,
and one of the first things that I shared was
(09:12):
some of the tasks that they would have done previously
will be automated. We will be using AI for those
basic tasks that in the past we would have hired
an intern or a recent college graduate to do. And
it's so critical now that we look at higher level
(09:32):
types of tasks that we will need college graduates to do.
And I can foresee in the future hiring someone from
college who does not have at least a basic understanding
of AI. There will be some roles where they will
have to have an advanced understanding, especially if they're in
an engineering role or computer science role, but across the
(09:54):
board they will need to understand AI. So, when I
think about the way that education is changing, whether you're
a college student, whether you're an adult professional, you will
need to be a lifelong learner and you will need
to understand how to continuously upskill and reskill yourself to
be able to understand technologies like AI because of the
(10:16):
rapid acceleration of these types of technologies, and I think
that's very important. I think everyone has to be prepared,
if they're not doing it today, to upskill and reskill themselves.
And I can't foresee any roles in the future where
candidates will not need to have a very basic understanding
of AI or even advanced understanding of AI.
Speaker 4 (10:39):
That's great, April. Let me ask you a slightly different
version of the question, what is the significance of AI
for students and young professionals today?
Speaker 6 (10:46):
When we think about the disruption that JENAI especially has
caused within the legal profession, students have to be more
adept when it comes to feeling comfortable, being uncomfortable, and
learning something new. The other thing that I would just
kind of emphasize from an educational standpoint is this also
means that educators have to approach teaching differently. You know,
(11:10):
I've been teaching for going on twenty years and things
are kind of being turned on their heads somewhat right,
and I have had to upskill and reskill. We can't
teach that what we don't know, we can't monitor that
what we don't know. Just as the students have to
understand generative AI, the educators have to understand it as well.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Yeah, this is something I've felt in the classroom myself
as a psychology professor, right, is that I'm realizing how
much I need to kind of go back to school
and learn about all these AI tools, not just so
that I can teach it, but just so I can
understand how my students are using these things, right, but
also to figure out how I can enhance the educational
experience of my own students in psychology right by giving
(11:53):
them access to these tools. And so, yeah, I'm curious
in your experience, how does AI actually enhance the educationally
experience for your law students. And I'm curious if you
could give an example of the type of thing you
do in your classroom.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
Yeah. So one of the things that I tell my
students is you got to get your hands dirty. You
can't understand these tools if you don't kind of dig
in and just see how they work. So one giving
them permission and encouraging them to do it in terms
of how they might be able to use these tools
to help them learn better. I encourage them to as
(12:28):
they're wrestling maybe with concepts that are confusing, they haven't
completely wrapped their heads around it. And when we think
about large language models, these tools are really helpful in
that sense. Right, if there's a passage in the book
and you're not quite following it, or there's a case
right and you need some assistance in breaking it down,
(12:50):
running that information through a large language model and then
asking questions about it can be really beneficial. Also in
the law school, the legal context, large languge models are
really helpful for that as well. But one thing I
do caution my students is that any understanding that you
think you have gained through the use of these tools,
you need to circle back to your professor and make
(13:12):
sure that your understanding is correct.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
I love that, and I've seen the importance of that
in my own classroom too. You mentioned so many of
the things that these tools are great at, but I
think another thing that AI in the classroom can help
us with is democratizing the classroom. And so, Justina, I'm
curious in what ways do you think integrating AI into
education is help us going to bridge these gaps and
actually democratize access to education even more.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
Yeah, I think it's going to really make a difference
in providing access to education in many different ways. I
want to give you an example. Through our IBM Skills
Bill program, we're infusing AI technology into the platform to
create a more personalized enhance experience for learners in every language.
(13:55):
So we are creating personalized learning pathways, we are tailoring
the access to our learners to meet their individual needs,
and we are also using AI to answer questions in
a more timely and accurate manner. If you really think
about it, you will need a significant staff to be
able to respond quickly to questions to make sure the
(14:17):
questions are accurate. With AI, we can answer questions immediately,
we can answer them in a more sophisticated way than
we did in the past, and we can also offer
cost recommendations and learning pathways that meet their needs. We
have courses such as AI Ethics and prompt Writing and
getting started with machine Learning, all the way to actually
(14:40):
use in coding to help create these large language models.
So when you think about the average learner that we
are working with, they may want just an introductory course
on AI ethics or understanding how to use AI in
their day to day work, or they actually may want
to understand how do you so really leverage a code
(15:01):
for a large language model, And I think it's important
to give them all the different options and create those
personalized learning pathways for them. The other thing around really
democratizing opportunities to provide free access to this kind of learning,
and we do that again through our Skills Bill program.
If you have courses that you can only pay to access,
(15:24):
then you're really not given the opportunity for everyone to
advance and to learn. So by leveraging AI on our
platform but also providing that free access, we're really helping
to breage the gap, you know, for learners and make
sure they can upskill and reskill themselves and help them
also increase social and economic mobility.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
So it sounds like an amazing program. Justina, Can you
describe the vision behind IBM Skills Build and how it's
built to reach so many learners around the world.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
So, IBM has always been committed to investing in the
future of work and with offered educational experiences for many,
many years. And IBM Skills Built is a program. Again,
it's free, it's open, anyone can access it, but it's
really around getting access to the right technical skills and
(16:15):
workplace learning skills so that you could be prepared for
a career in technology, but in any industry and any field.
We know now that understanding technology, understanding AI or cybersecurity
or any of those tech topics are needed whether you're
working in a tech company, or whether you're working in
(16:36):
retail or in legal or any of these different industries.
So we want to make sure we could provide that
access to learners. In twenty twenty one, we launched a
global commitment to skill thirty million people by twenty thirty
and we are making significant progress against that goal. Just
last year, we reported that we skilled eleven point five
million learners around the world, and these are learners that
(16:59):
enrolled in IBM courses, including access in our platform, IBM
Skills Build, and it's really the cornerstone of our education
work at IBM. We really focus on scaling our work
through partnerships. So we partner with historically black colleges and universities,
and that's how, of course, we got the chance to
(17:20):
meet April. We partner with nonprofit organizations across the globe.
We also partner with governments to make sure we provide
that free access to the communities that are aligned with
their national agenda around skill in and those communities that
are most in need. It's really important that we scale
the program through those premier partnerships, so that's extremely important
(17:43):
to us.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
The vision behind IBM Skills Build is truly inspiring. In
a world where technology is changing every industry, having access
to these crucial skills is more important than ever. This
initiative is breaking down barriers and in suring that people
from all walks of life can participate in the future
of work. In order to effectively scale a platform, the
(18:08):
strategic collaborations with educational institutions, nonprofits and governments are key.
It's clear that IBM is deeply invested in creating long
lasting change in communities around the world. This approach will
strengthen the workforce globally, helping to bridge the digital divide
and create more equitable opportunities in the tech space.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
So now we're shifting gears to think a little bit
about the real world insights. Justina, what can you tell
us about the skills first movement? This seems to be
an open approach to attracting top talent. What are you
hearing from students and partners.
Speaker 6 (18:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
So IBM has been leading the skills first movement for
quite some time. And one of the things that we realized,
and we actually tested this out, is that you don't
always need a four year degree to be successful at
a tech job. So when we looked at the job
postings that we had, we decided to make a commitment
(19:06):
to have at least fifty percent of our job postings
not requiring a four year degree. And when we started
hiring people without a four year degree in certain roles,
we realized that they were as successful as those with
a four year degree. Now, this doesn't work across the board,
but this is really a way to get access to
(19:28):
what I consider to be untapped talent that are skilled
in different ways. Maybe they've had some experiences already, maybe
they have a different set of badges and certificates or
other credentials that can support them getting access to some
of the roles that are offered by companies. So this
is really a way to help address the opportunity gap
(19:50):
and provide a pathway for diverse talent.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
What impact do you think AI has had on global
learning standards broadly so far.
Speaker 6 (20:00):
I think from the perspective of a law student realizing
that this little universe in which we kind of thought
we might operate has expanded. When we think about AI
and we think about the implications of AI, it goes
far beyond our state national I mean, you have to
have an understanding of what's going on in other countries.
So even when we're thinking about the regulation of AI
(20:22):
and the governance of AI and policies surrounding AI, it
means you have to be open to learning about what's
happening in other countries where AI is disrupting those spaces
as well. So again, I think it really underscores for
our law students how you have to see yourself as
part of a larger team. Lawyers don't work in isolation,
(20:45):
and it's really good that law students are recognizing that
while they're still in school.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
So it really seems like these technologies are kind of
changing the learning experience in law by making kind of
broader and maybe more global. Justin can you share any
example of how IBM Skills build has made a significant
difference in other kinds of learning journeys?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (21:05):
Absolutely, I mean this is one of the most rewarding
parts of my job. What I get excited about is
when I travel and I meet with students who have
been a part of IBM Skills Build and they have
been able to use the learning, the certificates, the opportunities
that we've provided them around mentorship as well to be
able to move into a better paying job or a
(21:27):
new job that they did not have the opportunity previously.
We had one of our learners, his name was Oscar
and he arrived in California from Mexico when he was
around five years old and he worked and he attended
college full time. But during his last semester, he was
introduced to the IBM Skills Build program through the Hispanic
(21:47):
Heritage Foundation, one of our partners, and through the career
assessment tool of the program, he identified areas where he
could excel and it allowed him to dig deeper into
learning paths that match his interests and his skills. So
he started taking cosses such as AI Fundamentals, he earned credentials,
and he was able to get a better role when
(22:10):
he graduated from college. So we have so many beneficiaries
of the program who have been able to access the training,
also access the mentorship that we provide through the program
and able to get a better pain on new job
because of it.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
That's fabulous, April. I know your students have used IBM
skills builled. Can you give us an example of how
it's made an important impact on a student's journey.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Yes, absolutely so. I mentioned that we taught a Blockchain
for Lawyers class and one of the students had a
big interest in blockchain cryptocurrency. He actually also had a
master's in information science and so he was a dual
degree student. He was also in my AI and the
(22:54):
law class, so he not only got the blockchain certificate,
he got the AI Foundation certificate. It he wound up
being the editor in chief of the law journal and
he is a legal tech lawyer. And so this kind
of goes back to what Justina was saying about making
sure that the talent that's there has access to the resources.
It really does make a big difference in so many
(23:16):
of our students' lives.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
That's such an inspiring story, Justina. I'm curious what impact
Skills Build has had on the communities you work with,
maybe even beyond just students.
Speaker 5 (23:26):
Yeah, so it has had a tremendous impact in our communities.
I think one of the big things about digital skills
and upskill in and reskilling is not just in certain areas.
For example, I mentioned the story of Oscar who was
graduating from college got access to Skills Build. It helped
(23:47):
him get a better paying job. But we have programs
in sustainability as well where we are working with farmers
in the middle of Texas and we are providing access
to skills Build as well so that they can use
the technology and understand the technology that we are bringing
to them throughout Sustainability Accelerator program. And what's so interesting
(24:08):
about this is we need to upskill and reskill them
as well. Right, So if you think about certain jobs
where you just need to better understand the data or
the technology, our partnerships with nonprofits to be able to
bring it to people in different fields, and sustainability is
one that we focus on as well that has been
inspiring to me. We also have programs where we focus
(24:30):
on girls, especially in India, and make sure we're giving
them access to this kind of training and mentorship again
to make them competitive in the marketplace, to make sure
that they have an opportunity at a good paying job
and that they could be independent. So our global partners
work with us on leveraging skills, build curating it in
(24:53):
a way that makes sense for their communities that they
want to impact. And we focus on women who have
left the work and they want to return. We focus
on veterans. We focus on black communities in the US
or Hispanic communities. So we really look at those really
great global partnerships and make sure we are bringing in
(25:13):
people who would have been otherwise left out of the
tech field and giving them the opportunity to reskill and
upskill themselves, and helping them through our partnerships, connect to
good paying jobs as well.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
So so far we've been focused on students in their learning,
but now I want to turn to both of your learning.
I'm curious, what are some challenges that you've faced in
your careers and how have you overcome them?
Speaker 6 (25:36):
Yeah. Sure. So one of the things that I quickly
found out was that law school was not as I envisioned.
You kind of go in, you think it's one thing,
it's another. The curriculum can be very surprising. It's not
like the undergraduate curriculum. And I just had to kind
of reach out and develop mentors. And I was very
(25:59):
lucky in that I had a number of individuals who
provided me with a tremendous amount of support, and I
think that's one of the reasons why I love teaching
so much, is to be able to support the students
and just help them kind of build their community and
their network so they can excel and then they can
reach back and help others excel as well.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I love that. Justina, same question. What are some key
challenges that you've faced in your career and how have
you overcome them?
Speaker 5 (26:27):
Yeah, I'm smiling because what April mentioned is exactly the
experience I've had. I was one of the only black
women to graduate from my school's mechanical engineering program, and
when my children were very young, I also stepped away
from the workforce for several years to focus on them.
And I don't think I would be successful today without
(26:51):
the help of mentors. They're the ones that really helped
me to be successful, to understand the corporate environment, to
connect me with with other opportunities, and I think it's
important to me to make myself available to others, and
that's a really big part of what I do. I
want to make myself at my field more representative of
(27:13):
the work that we do and I want to make
sure that I provide access to others and give others
the same types of opportunities I have, and that's why
I do enjoy leading this type of work at IBM.
Speaker 4 (27:25):
Here here to both of you giving back to the
students that we were back in the day. It's so important, Justina.
IBM has a goal of equipping thirty million learners with
technology skills by twenty thirty as part of the IBM
Skills Build programming. Why is this initiative important and how
is IBM planning to exactly achieve this.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
Yeah, we believe the talent gap is one of the
biggest challenges that we face in society today. So AI
of course is accelerating this movement and there's more of
a sense of urgency. However, we know that there is
a significant talent gap and that there are many people
that are disadvantage who are not getting access to the
(28:05):
right opportunities, and that's why we made the commitment to
skill thirty million people by twenty thirty, and that's why
we're providing free access to programs like IBM Skills Build
with over a thousand courses in twenty languages, to make
them accessible to all and to give others the chance
to be successful. Last year, we also announced the commitment
(28:26):
to train two million people in AI over the next
three years, because again we understand the importance of AI
and understanding it to be successful in any job, especially
an entry level job. So we're continuing to expand our
AI offerings because we know that it is exacerbating the
(28:47):
talent gap and we know that these skills will be
in demand significantly by corporations.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
So, April, Justina just mentioned, you know, all the changes
that we're seeing at AI. I'm curious what role you
think educators play in terms of making students aware of
all these technological and societal changes happening in their fields.
Speaker 6 (29:07):
Yeah, educators are so vital. And one of the things
that I've noticed is that students who have not engaged
with the tech have not done so either because an educator,
a teacher or professor has told them not to that
you know, they just say, you know, no, you can't
use it, or they haven't said anything at all, They
haven't encouraged them to look into it to try it.
(29:31):
And we have to encourage students to become familiar with
these tools for all the reasons that Justina mentioned in
terms of what the workforce is demanding. But also if
we don't provide them with guidance, then there's the real
chance that they will use them inappropriately. So we have
to provide them with permission to dive in. We have
(29:55):
to teach them how to use these tools ethically, with integrity,
what are the best practices? And again that kind of
goes back to something I mentioned before, which I speak
about a lot, is that it requires educators to themselves
learn about these tools. And that's one of the reasons
why I was so appreciative of the trainer program because
(30:17):
again we started offering courses at the Law School, because
these courses were provided free of charge, of course to
our faculty, so we were able to upskill and reskill
and then turn around and share that with our students.
So educators are vital. But I also think that we
need to make sure we do a better job as
(30:40):
a society of supporting our educators so that they can
gain the knowledge and then pay that forward to the students.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
Right because not everybody's providing the kinds of free resources
the IBM provides. We're teachers who really need it. April
in what ways has IBM Skills Build changed your perspective
on the potential of AI and education.
Speaker 6 (31:02):
Well as far as the potential, it makes it so
much easier, right, I mean, it lightens the lift for educators.
If I had to design the AI Foundations class, you know,
ground up, there's no way I could have done that.
And if we're thinking about exposing students, regardless of their
area of study to AI or to technology, those that
(31:28):
are experts in those particular spaces, they're not going to
be able to build those courses. So having something like
IBM Skills Build available so that we can you know,
design a course around those modules that are already put
together is incredibly helpful. And so it means the potential
of providing AI education to all students. It just really
(31:51):
increases the possibility, which is good for all of us.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Justina, as you think about your work at IBM, how
do you balance the need for technological innovation with the
importance of maintaining a human centered approach and education.
Speaker 5 (32:05):
I really like how April touched on ethics earlier, because
it is so important that we continue to make sure
the human is at the center of everything that we
do and that we are protecting people. Even as we
foster innovation with AI and the way that IBM has
done that, we've had reasonable policies and guardrails in place
(32:28):
around everything that we do around AI. I'm actually a
part of our AI Ethics Board. We meet on a
regular basis to discuss cases, to discuss technology, and we
actually have discussions and make decisions on what is the
right thing to do, and we are always considering a
human centered approach. How do we make sure that we
(32:51):
are protecting people and how do we make sure that
we have their voice in every decision that we make.
We have three principles around trust and transparency, and the
first is the purpose of AI is to augment human intelligence,
not replace it. The second is that data and insights
belong to their creators, So with anyone that we work with,
(33:14):
we make sure that we protect their data insights and
it belongs to them, it doesn't belong to us. And
then any new technology, including any AI products, systems, platforms,
must be transparent and explainable. So I think that's important
to have those types of principles in place. I'm proud
to be a part of the AI Ethics Board making
(33:35):
decisions around how AI is deployed, and I think making
sure that we continue to keep humans people at the
center of every decision we make around innovation is how
we protect them.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
So we've talked so much about all the changes that
are happening right now. Justin know, I kind of want
you to put on your like, you know, future prediction cap.
What future developments do you anticipate in the realm of
open education.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
I think that and I've been in education a very
long time, and I remember us talking about personalized learning
maybe ten years fifteen years ago, and I'm not sure
it ever came to fruition in the way that we imagined.
And we know that the teacher will always be the guide.
They will always be the one that's needed. I don't
(34:22):
think any technology will ever replace teachers, But I think
what AI can do is enhanced that experience by really
creating personalized learning content and experiences in the education space.
I think that is one of the things that I
would say should be something we see in the very
near future around the acceleration of AI.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
April, You've done so much elegant work teaching your students
about AI and technology. I'm curious what advice you have
for other educators and technologists looking to advocate for a
skills first approach or more AI training for their students,
what advice will you have for with them?
Speaker 6 (35:01):
The first piece of advice that I always give is
don't feel overwhelmed because you can. I mean, there's a
lot going on. It's hard to keep up with how
fast things are moving, even for those of us that
love this space. You don't have to do everything at once,
just you know, baby steps, and that's that's absolutely fine.
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
As a professor, I have to say I needed to
hear that, so giving myself grace taking that one to heart.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
In fact, I have in my PowerPoint presentation the first
slide I put up is of a turtle and it
says slow your role. And it's like, I'm going to
be talking about a lot of things, but I want
you to remember this slide, just slow your role. It's okay.
The other thing that I encourage professors to do is
to join an educator community group. And there are a
(35:46):
lot that have popped up as a result of jin
ai and the disruption that we're seeing just in the
education space, and so how can we crowd source our
advice without a doubt. If you're thinking about a particular
assignment and how you might use Jenai in crafting that
assignment or incorporating it in the assessment, there is a
(36:07):
professor out there who has either already done it or
they're also thinking about it. So you know, let's be
more collaborative. And I will say that's been really wonderful
for me as a law professor, being able to collaborate
with professors from other disciplines. And the last thing that
(36:27):
I would say, you know, sometimes it can be hard
to convince your colleagues within your institution to be progressive,
and if you can bring an outside speaker to come
in and kind of just share what's going on, that
can oftentimes get people moving even if you within the
building aren't able to get that same traction. So those
(36:50):
are kind of the three pieces of advice that I'll
typically give professors.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
So this has been a fabulous conversation that we are
reaching the end of our time. But before we rap,
let's do a speed round. Ready, first question April first,
complete this sentence. In five years, AI will blank.
Speaker 6 (37:11):
In five years, AI will be more fully leveraged to
help lawyers better serve their clients. More efficiently and will
help close the access to justice gap.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
Nice justin the same question.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
In five years, AI will have disrupted every industry and
there would have been significant advancements made in education and
sustainability with the use of AI.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
Okay, speed round question number two. What is the number
one thing that people misunderstand about AI?
Speaker 5 (37:47):
Justin at you first, The number one misunderstanding about AI
is that it's going to destroy everyone's jobs. I think
that people with AI skills or understanding of AI will
have some advantages in the workplace.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
April.
Speaker 6 (38:02):
The number one thing people misunderstand about AI is that
only computer scientists or mathematicians or engineers can understand it.
You can gain an understanding again through baby steps, and
there are so many resources available. If you explore the
(38:22):
information and bite sized pieces, you can begin to wrap
your head around it.
Speaker 4 (38:27):
Okay, next speed around question, what advice would you give
yourself ten years ago to better prepare you for today?
Speaker 5 (38:34):
Justina you first, The advice I would give myself ten
years ago is to continue learning. I always love understanding technology.
I always dove deep into whether it's machine learning or
four G and five G technologies. Understanding AI and hybrid
cloud today is something that I also enjoy doing, so
(38:55):
I would say continue learning, continue diving into these technologies,
continue understanding what it means for you and your future career, April.
Speaker 6 (39:05):
Be more interdisciplinary, so stay current with the evolution of
computer science, but also incorporate the study of data and
ethics and sociology because the challenges they're opposed by AI
they're multifaceted and you have to have an understanding in
(39:26):
these areas to really address the promise and the challenges
of AI.
Speaker 4 (39:31):
Final speed round question, how are you already using AI
in your day to day life today?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
April.
Speaker 6 (39:38):
So I use it in my teaching. The other way
that I plan on using it in the future is
serving the students and then using the data analysis tool
to help me gather that information and figure out how
best to address the information that I've received from my students.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Nice, Justina, Yeah, So the way that we're using AI
today is to actually analyze complex and large data sets
in our sustainability work to provide insights to some of
our partners on how they can increase crop yield, for example,
or how they can deliver clean energy solutions to rural areas.
(40:18):
So we actively using it in the programs that we
have within our corporate Social Responsibility portfolio and also integrating
it into our Skills Bill platform.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
Well, thank you both so much. You did excellent in
the speed round, but it was just so fabulous to
talk to you both today. I think this is a
time of so many exciting challenges in the field of education,
and it was fabulous to hear more about how AI
and IBM Skills Build and so many technologies can help
us out. Thank you both so much for this fun conversation.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Thank you for having us. It was great.
Speaker 6 (40:50):
Yes, thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
What an insightful conversation with Justina and April. This discussion
demonstrated how technology and education can intersect to create a
meaningful impact in today's educational landscape. Students must utilize AI
in the classroom in order to prepare for the modern workforce,
and educators must use the technology, including IBM Skills Build,
(41:16):
to train students for the complexities of tomorrow's challenges. As
April and Justina emphasized, impact starts by centering the humans
using the tool. Ensuring their empowered to access, adopt, and
excel with the technology is just as critical as the
power of the tool itself. Justina and April's work is
(41:38):
a powerful reminder that as we continue to integrate AI
technology into our educational systems, we have the opportunity to
create more equitable and accessible learning environments. It's clear that
the future of learning and technology is bright and the
adoption of AI is crucial in shaping that future. Smart
(42:01):
Talks with IBM is produced by Matt Romano, Joey fish Ground,
Amy Gains McQuaid, and Jacob Goldstein or edited by Lydia
gene Kott. Our engineers are Sarah Bugaer and Ben Tolliday.
Theme song by Gramoscope Special thanks to the eight Bar
and IBM teams, as well as the Pushkin marketing team.
Smart Talks with IBM is a production of Pushkin Industries
(42:24):
and Ruby Studio at iHeartMedia. To find more Pushkin podcasts,
listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to podcasts. I'm Malcolm Glapa. This is a paid
advertisement from IBM. The conversations on this podcast don't necessarily
represent IBM's positions, strategies or opinions.
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