STBYM Halftober Monsterfest Playlist, Episode 4: Killer's Mask

The most recent Friday the 13th holiday was kind of a bummer, so let's play catch-up with this 2018 episode about masked killers in reality, fiction and culture.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff
Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.
My name is Robert Lynn, and I'm Joe McCormick, and
welcome to October. That's right. October for us is a
just a full month of Halloween flavored, spooky, creepy, monstrous content. Uh.

(00:28):
You know, we would put out monstrous and occasionally horror
theme content at other points during the year, but we
really try and make sure that October is just jam packed.
We take our our we take this one holiday very seriously. Anyway,
it's monster science all month, that's right. And so today, Robert,
he wanted to talk about horror movies and masks. Yeah,

(00:49):
I kind of. I just kept thinking about this recently,
and I don't think there was one particular movie, uh
that that that inspired it, because obviously I've been watching
slasher movies for a large proportion of my life. I
imagine you have as well, and I and I don't
imagine we have to explain this particular trope to anyone
out there. You don't have to have seen a single

(01:11):
slasher film to know it by heart. A mask murderer
is on the prow and perhaps by the end of
the film, you'll either discover the killer's identity or the
nature of the disfiguration that forces them to wear that mask. Yeah,
you discover it through this, this unmasking that tends to
happen at the end of the movie. And I think
it's interesting that the unmasking or face reveal trope happens

(01:36):
in horror movies. Now, okay, I'll frame it in two ways.
One way is that it happens in horror movies that
are also mysteries. This makes total sense to me. Imagine
a slasher movie like the scream movies, where it turns
out at the end of every movie that the killer
is a character known to you and you've discovered Ah,
it was this person all along, and the mask revealed

(01:58):
the face you know, the maskets pulled off. The face
revealed tells you who it was. It conveys information. Yeah,
this is the Scooby Doo trope exactly. It was old
man grizzle Bums all along. But then there are tons
of movies with masked killers that have unmasking moments, but
the killer's mask is removed and it is not it's

(02:19):
not a mystery, it's not a character like there's Halloween
and the Friday the Thirteen sequels. In movies like this,
you already know who the killer is, or the killer
is not a previously known character, and in these cases,
I always wonder what purpose does the face reveal serve?
It still tends to happen at the climax of the

(02:39):
movie as if like this is all what it's all
been leading up to. There's the face, but it's not
like it reveals anything about who it was. It's just like, well,
that's what his face looks like. Yeah, I mean, in
one level, is just kind of like the Fangoria magazine
like gore ahound Ethos, right, you know, it's like you
just you're building up to that point where you're seeing
all this grizzly stuff, but you want reach like peak

(03:01):
uh pete grotesque, and that's where it's going to occur
when that mask is pulled off, I guess. So. So
it's this is of course all just a very well
worn trope, but a trope that we keep utilizing in
our our horror fiction because, let's face it, it works,
it's fun, and I realized that it can it can
be a little bit problematic when we start to dissect

(03:21):
our love for pretend murder films, which essentially that's what
we're talking about, pretend murder movies. And I just want
to warn people at the top of this episode that
while we often talk about horror movies, monsters, ghosts, and
so forth, we don't usually talk about real world serial
killers and stuff, which can, arguably, at least to me,
be a more disturbing subject matter. And so as a

(03:44):
point of illustration of our topic today, we will be
discussing a few real murderers from history. Just a fair
warning if that sort of thing is likely to bother you.
You know, I think about the difference between loving fictional
horror and loving, say, true cry. I am like, this
is a big difference for me. I love monsters and murder,

(04:04):
mystery horror and all that, but I do not really
enjoy true crime at all, and I often find it unpleasant.
I mean, I can think of a few counter examples,
like I like the movie Zodiac, and I love the
Charles Manson season of the podcast. You must remember this.
Have you ever listened to that? Um? I have? I
think I've listened to a few episodes. Yes, it's just
really good, but I have. I have not listened to

(04:24):
the Charles Manson episodes. Well, if you haven't checked it
out that here's a podcast recommendation you must remember. This
with Karina Longworth is about Hollywood history and I really
enjoy it. But in general, I really prefer my exposure
to violence and murder to be fictional. And of course
I know people who are exactly the other way around, right.
I know you probably do too, Robert, Like, they can't

(04:44):
stomach even the mildest of monster movies, but they gobble
up nonfiction crime books and podcasts about the most horrible
kinds of real life murder and mayhem, which to me
is more likely to make me feel just kind of depressed. Yeah,
I don't know. I do know individuals who fall into
either CATA. I know individuals who like both. I mean,
there are there are people who just really love both

(05:07):
horror and true crime and we'll and we'll we'll take it,
you know, all in however they can, they can get it. Um.
You know. For my own part, I'm not as much
into true crime right now, but I certainly went through
a period of time in college in particular, where I
was just like consuming everything I could get at the time,
and there weren't as many options, especially online. We didn't

(05:27):
have true crime podcasts that back then. But you know,
I was watching, uh, you know, any kind of forensic
documentary I could get my hands on. I was, I
was visiting some of the the early true crime websites
and and and reading the you know some of those uh,
those those big thick detective manuals about homicide investigation. Now,

(05:48):
one thing that we can come back to in a
minute is, I bet when you were going through this
true crime phase, you may have been surprised to not
encounter much use of the mask in in real life
murder exactly. And that's that's really the the question that
that kind of led to this episode was just the
question and the realization that when you look at you

(06:09):
look at all of these masked psychopathic individuals in our fiction,
and then you you look to real life, um, serial
murders and true crime, and you really don't see that
many masks. You do see a few notable, notable exceptions,
which we will discuss here, but for the most part,

(06:30):
the killer's mask seems to be an obsession of fiction
that is not as present in real life crime. And
we will certainly explore some potential reasons for that later
on in the episode. Now, I do want to mention
one thing here. We we've we've been talking about true
crime and uh in horror fiction. Uh kind of as
if they are just too completely separate kingdoms. Of course,

(06:52):
these kingdoms border each other and actually overlap. Uh It
it becomes impossible to to really uh keep one away
from the other. You have horror movies that are very
much inspired by real life murders, real life crime, and then, unfortunately,
we also have the reverse, which will discuss just briefly
as well, where you have real life crime that is

(07:14):
inspired by horror fiction. Now, if we stick to fictional
horror for a bit, you can think of some obvious
reasons that it might make sense for a villain to
wear a mask. Right, Yeah, let's roll through some of
the just obvious reasons. First of all, this is the
Scooby Doo factor. Creates a sense of mystery who or
what is underneath that mask. I gotta know, it makes

(07:36):
a lot more sense for this to be the case
in movies where there is actually a known character whose
identity is being concealed. When I was in in high school,
a friend of mine collected these larger scale g I.
Joe figures, not the like old school ones, but kind
of like a you know, a new school version that
was out, and he had one of Destro uh, and

(07:58):
apparently the mask would come him off, but he refused
to take the doll out of the box, which always
just I was like, how can you do that? Don't
You've got to know, right, You've got to know what
Destro's face looks like underneath that mask on this doll.
And I never found out, so uh, And to my knowledge,
he never opened the box. But there's there's this this
even when we know that it's not vital to like

(08:20):
the true identity of the character, there is something about
the identity of the character wrapped up in whatever is
being hidden from us. What do you think you're gonna
learn by seeing his face? I don't know. It's kind
of it's it's almost something that's not put into words.
I mean, it might be something again to this, like
we are so dependent upon uh, the human face to

(08:44):
understand intention and motivation. I mean, the face is a
communications array, and if that and if the other individual's
face is hidden from us, true communication cannot take place.
So I feel like part of the unmasking psychology is
faced in that, like, like we're having a one sided
facial conversation here, and you must remove that mask for this,

(09:06):
for this understanding to be true. Well, in general, to
be uncovered is to be vulnerable, and to be covered
is to be guarded. Any way, right now, another advantage
to having a mask killer in your fiction is, of
course it sets up that potential big reveal we've been
talking about, right, what's the identity of the killer, what's
the what's the monster's face? Look like? You're gonna build anticipation,
especially if that is the trump, especially if that is

(09:29):
what is expected. You go into that Friday thirteenth movie
knowing that there's going to be a moment where you
get to see Jason Vorhees's face. There are also some
very practical filmmaking concerns you can take into account here, right,
oh yeah, because it's generally cheaper to just put a
mask on your character than to do all of that
crazy makeup special effects, you know, especially if you're using

(09:51):
a generic mask like a hockey mask or a sack
or a gas mask or some of Yeah, just something
you find and uh and you might say, well, we'll heck,
there's some really impressive like Tom Savini u um uh
makeup effects that are utilized to create Jason in many
of those films right when them unmasking does occur. But

(10:13):
if you think, if you think of it this way,
it's like that's a that's a costly um makeup effect
to roll out, and you can't just you know, film
put it on once. If you're filming it multiple times,
you're gonna have to put it on multiple times. It's
gonna cost time and money. But if you have him
just wear a hockey mask for most of the time,
then that just makes filming easier. And if you can't

(10:33):
afford that fancy makeup at all to begin with, then
there you go. That's that's the easiest step to take.
Putting a mask on, I would say, also requires less
of your actor, That's right. You don't have to really
worry as much about your your the acting abilities of
the actor, or you don't have to depend on them
having a particular uh, you know, unique face. So I'm thinking,

(10:55):
on one hand, you don't have to have Christopher Lee,
who who as you know, an accomplished horror actor, and
you don't also don't have to worry about do I
have a like a Robert Zadar, somebody who maybe you know,
arguably is was not as great an actor as Christopher Lee,
but definitely had a very interesting face. You don't have

(11:17):
to have either of those. If you just have a
mask you can throw over the individual. No, you can
basically just cast your stunt coordinator exactly, which I believe
is generally what you see in some of these cases.
You just have the stunt player or just somebody with
a large frame perhaps playing the character. And then hey,
you can use as many actors as you actually need.
You can recast it every movie. You don't have to

(11:38):
worry about getting into into, you know, deep contract negotiations
with your with your slasher character. It's also great branding,
great for Halloween costumes. Oh I see, so that's the
I mean, that's the reason that Jason Vorhees so easily
pops up on every street during Halloween, or certainly at
every haunted attraction, um, you know, any haunted else, commercial

(12:00):
haunted house you might go to, they will inevitably be
somebody in a hockey mask. And then finally, it leaves
lots of room for the creepy and the uncanny. And
this I think gets into the deeper history of of
the the use of masks in humans civilization, in various cultures. Uh,
the idea that the mask is an ancient, uh, performative

(12:24):
tool that allows an individual to become something else. Yeah,
and we see this in everything from drama to religious ceremonies.
Um So what, Robert, what are some of your favorite
horror movie masks? Well, I have to say I've always
been very partial to leather Face from the Texas Chainsaw Masker,
especially for the first film. But but I I say,

(12:46):
I love one and two and I and I and
I really like I like three and four as well.
And four. Yeah, I mean you got u you know
Matthew McConaughey. I mean four is a bit wackadoodle, but
you still have McConaughey in there doing his thing. I
have what's the one with the aliens? Um? I don't
know about. There's illuminato in the fourth one. Maybe that's

(13:08):
what I'm thinking about. Yeah, I don't think we've been
blessed with an alien um uh plot in Texas Chancel
Mask yet. Part three, though, had a Vigo Morrison in it,
Vigo Mortenson. Yeah, yeah, so that's that was worthwhile. Three
was pretty good. Yeah, But but you're into the mask, right, Yeah.
The mask is the main factor here that we're talking

(13:30):
about here today. You know, he had this mask that
was stitched together from from pieces of leather faces victims
or perhaps the bodies that the leather the lead the
chainsaw family is stealing out of the cemeteries. Um. And
in that first film especially, you never see what is
underneath it. You might wonder about it, but it's there's
no reveal or anything. Eventually, Hollywood couldn't resist and they

(13:53):
depicted leather Face unmasked in two thousand three. That's in
the remake. Yeah, and to Michael Bay remake. Yeah, And
that was fun enough, you know, but it wasn't for me.
It wasn't a says, I think it's the original film
by by any means. I always like the implication that
that it didn't matter, like you didn't there wasn't it
wasn't set up for an unmasking, like maybe there wasn't

(14:16):
even an identity under there. You know. It's like his
identity was the mask made out of his crimes. Now,
another favorite of mine Uh, and I understand this is
one of your favorites as well. Dr Philip K. Decker's
Button Mask and Clive Barker's Night Breathe. Oh, this one
is so good. This is probably this might be my
favorite horror movie killer mask. Uh. So it is worn

(14:39):
by David Cronenberg, or at least David Cronenberg plays the
character that's wearing it. I don't know if that's actually
him and all the scenes, because it seems like this
is another case of like Cronenberg is great, but we
really can't have him on set all the time or
like doing all these stunts. So let's just have the
stunt guy play him, and then whenever he pulls it off,
we'll get we'll get Dave on on set. If he said,

(15:00):
if you haven't seen it, it's basically a sock over
the head with buttons for eyes and a zipper mouth,
but impeccably designed, like it's a highly stylized mask that
actually makes no sense. Then I didn't even really think
about this till yesterday. How did he see out of it?
It's almost like he didn't see like when he became
the killer, he was like using some sort of like uh,

(15:23):
you know, barkery six cents, you know, like he saw
through murder or something. It's a very creepy mask, especially
knowing that the person under it is supposed to be
a soft spoken, floppy hair David Cronenberg, just imagining how
that mask over the top of his head is pressing
his hair down is one of one of the great
sources of horror in that movie. Uh. Cronenberg, of course,

(15:46):
is usually known as a horror director. This movie makes
me think he should take more acting roles. He is
so unsettling in it. He was he was so good.
Another one of my favorite horror movie masks is not
worn by like a movie kill or but in the
nineteen seventy three The Wickerman, which is one of my
favorite horror movies, it's not explicitly a single killer with

(16:08):
a mask, but the masks that the villagers wear for
the celebration of their pagan religion are just awesome. There's
like rabbits and fish and bear masks. Uh, It's it's
all there. And I keep thinking, one of these days,
I'm gonna have a really good Wickerman party on May
Day or something. Well. That really sets expectations very high
for whatever you're gonna burn in your backyard. But the

(16:30):
but the masks are great here because they highlight the
continuity between horror movie masks and the traditional use of
masks in religious ceremonies. They just make that connection explicit. Yeah. Yeah,
there's there's an explicit treatment of like, you know, pagan
pagan practices and pagan belief systems in that movie. Yeah,

(16:50):
excellent film. And again you're talking about the original, not
the the remake, not not the one with the not
the bees, though that one's worth watching for different reasons. Now,
there are a lot of films where the masks, uh
that the slasher wears are unimpressive or they're trying a
bit too hard. Um. And in some of these cases
I haven't. I have admittedly not given the film a

(17:10):
proper shake. Like I know there was that the Groundhog
Day slasher movie that came out in the last year. Well,
I don't know what you're talking about. Um, I can't
remember the name of the film off hand. But the
character wears like a baby mask. So it's like this
kind of goofy looking baby mask, but then it's creepy
because he's wearing the baby mask. Oh that reminds me
of one of the creepiest masks in movies, which is

(17:31):
not a horror movie, but in Terry Gilliam's Brazil the
baby mask that terror carrogator. Yeah. Yeah, well I think
it's Michael Palin, Michael Palin's character in that. But yeah,
he is. He is acting as an interrogator and torturing
our hero. Uh so, I guess it is kind of
a horror ish scene and that that is a terrible mask, right,
terrifying indeed. But you know, so sometimes mask I feel

(17:54):
like they're trying a little bit too hard. I was.
I was never a big fan of the mask that
are are the mask or masks that are utilizing the
Saw films, because he seems to have just a lot
of gimmicks. He has too many gimmicks, you know. He
has the traps, he has like a theatrical Robiwars. There's
a pig mask. There's also the creepy puppet, a lot

(18:14):
of stuff. I'm just biased against the Saw movies in general,
Like I don't get down with the whole torture thing. Yeah. Well,
I will say though that again, I've only seen like
the first one, and I did read that They later
established that there's some sort of connection between the pig
masks and the Chinese zodiac. So so kudos for like
somehow working that in. I was not aware of that.

(18:35):
Angle doesn't really tempt me to watch the films though,
well you know they're there are a number of slasher
films where they did just like pick out a mask,
an existing mask, like it's the like it's a like
a coal miner's mask, right, or it's a gas mask
or something something that that that already exists. Let's claim
it and make it part of our slasher movie motif. Right.

(18:58):
So you've got Jason in the Thirteenth Movies just wears
a hockey mask. Uh, the in My Bloody Valentine, it's
just sort of like a miner's gas mask. That's a
that's a classic of the kind of as an early
slasher film. And then of course just like grabbing a
mask off the racks of the Halloween Store. Yeah, the
Screen movies classic example of that, the ghost face mask.

(19:19):
I do have this. I have wondered about this, and
I looked around. I couldn't find an example of anybody
doing this. But why do we not have any horror
movies where the slasher wears a Greek tragedy mask, because
so many of these are just mega creepy looking. If
I recall correctly, there is a scene in Scream Too
that uses the Greek tragic chorus masks. But I think

(19:40):
maybe it's that the killer is just in the normal
ghost face mask from the screen movies and is blending
in among a crowd of Greek masks. They're like trying
to do a murder during a play rehearsal. It's not
a very smart strategy. Well, as far as I know there,
I think there's a there's a huge area of opportunity here,
you know, not so much for ghost face killer. I
guess this would be like Greek face killer. Alright, Well,

(20:04):
we're gonna take a break and when we come back,
we will we'll get in more to the real life
killers and why we don't really see that many masks
utilized in their crimes. Thank alright, we're back. All right.
So we've been discussing how masks are extremely common in
horror movies horror stories about fictional killers, but this doesn't

(20:28):
appear to reflect reality so much. Yeah, when you start
looking around for examples of of especially serial murderers who
used a mask during the commission of their crimes. You
do not find that many cases. And we looked around,
um and I we even employed um the the true
crime expertise of our of our colleague, Scott Benjamin on

(20:52):
this as well. Scott knows what's up. Yeah, and uh
and he helped us with a few of these examples
that will will mention here. But but but let's lay
some ground rules here. So we're gonna be looking for
actual masks serial killers or spree killers. Uh. And and
we're discounting any kind of mass that was used purely

(21:12):
as a disguise, like a fake beard, false hair, etcetera. Um.
And also we have we're gonna require that the mask
be used during the commission of the crime itself, because
that's what we see in these slasher movies. Right. It's
not that Jason goes home afterwards and where's the hockey
mask and his den It's not that, uh, you know,

(21:33):
it's not that he's wearing the hockey mask to blend
in during a hockey game. He is using it, uh
for some varied effect during the crime itself. The most
notable example, and imagine this is the one that a
lot of you are thinking of is the Zodiac Killer. Now,
this was not the case during all of the Zodiac
Killers crimes, right, just some of them, right uh now,

(21:55):
to remind everybody who we're talking about, this was the
Northern California serial killer who was at if during the
sixties and seventies. Identity as of this recording still unknown,
but specifically the September nineteen sixty nine attack at Lake
Barry Essa, he wore a black executioner type hood with

(22:16):
clip on sunglasses over the eyeholes and a Zodiac symbol
branded bib uh. Kind of an awkward sounding mask really,
and and if you you look on mine you can
see illustrations of this. It does look a little bit goofy,
a little bit awkward, but also frightening, and that seems
to have probably been the the effect, one of the

(22:37):
effects that he was going after. It seems like he
might have been trying this out, experimenting with it as
a means of intimidating targets during daytime attacks, but other
attacks didn't did not involve the mask. And then there's
the less famous but still very well known Phantom Killer
six string of killings and tech arcana. This was a

(22:58):
lover's lane attack or wore a white mask with holes
cut out for the eyes and mouth. And this was
actually the basis for the horror film The Town That
Dreaded Sundown. I think very loosely based. Yes, But but
but that just description may summon, you know, the memories
of that VHS tape cover for that VHS tape which

(23:19):
had that that killer on the front. Well, when I
think about movies with a white sack over the head,
I obviously go to Friday the Thirteenth, Part two, before
Jason took on the hockey mask. That's right, That's something
that it's easy to forget if you're if you're not
like a hardcore Friday of their Teeth fan, Right, is
that he didn't get the hockey mask till which movie,
the third one? The third one? So he takes it

(23:40):
from a character character has just got a hockey mask.
Oh wow, if he'd been a baseball umpire, we'd have
a totally different franchise on our hands, wouldn't we That
would be quite odd. Now we've already mentioned Texas Chainsaw Masker,
and of course, uh the real life case that partially
inspired this movie. As well as is the book The

(24:00):
Silence of the Lambs, the character of Buffalo Bill and that,
but and also Alfred Hitchcox psycho the character Norman Bates.
The the real life case that had some degree of
inspiration and all of these was that of ed Geen,
who lived nineteen o six through four, who committed at
least two murders and mutilated the bodies of corpses that

(24:21):
he pilfered from graveyards and two masks, uh were found
in his possession that were made from the skin of
two female heads, and these were found in his house
by police. But there's no indication at least so far
as I've seen, that he ever wore these in the
commission of his crimes. Wow, I mean at least during
the murders. I mean, obviously a lot of what this
guy was doing it can be considered a crime right now.

(24:44):
In another case that was recommended to us by Scott Benjamin,
who again is well versed in all of this, uh,
he points out that during the late nineties early two thousands,
there was a German serial killer man by the name
of Martin Ney, who wore a black mask and black
clothing and of in the commission of his crimes, and
it sounds like it was perhaps a disguise, perhaps camouflage,

(25:06):
because he committed his crimes at night, but also as
a means of intimidating his young victims. So in the
real cases of mask wearing we've seen here with like
the Zodiac and with Martine, it sounds like an important
factor is the idea that the mask would make the
victim more afraid because, like the the killer is playing
some kind of power game. Right, especially important or possibly

(25:30):
important in that Zodiac attack, because again, daylight attack against
more than one victim um a psychological advantage. Now, beyond
these cases we've discussed here, you really don't find a lot. Now,
I know some of you will find some tidbit you
want to send in it. Certainly, feel free to send
that into us if there's a case that, uh, that

(25:50):
you think should be added to this, uh, this this pile.
But but still for the most part, there are very
few masks that are utilized. You look at some of
these other cases. For instance, John Wayne Gaycy famously dressed
as a clown at fundraising events, parades, and children's parties,
but he didn't wear the get up as part of
his crimes, and even if he had wouldn't have been

(26:11):
a mask. Now there's also the case of mass shooter
James Egan Holmes, who wore a gas mask during the
two thousand twelve Aurora shootings, But in this case, he
was attempting to use tear gas canisters during his attack
as well, So there seems to be a you know,
particular reason in that case. And beyond this, you'll find
a few rare cases here and there of an individual

(26:33):
uh murder taking place committed by someone in say Halloween mask,
but certainly the majority of cereal and mass homicides UH
seem to be unmasked acts. This incongruity between fictional killers
and real killers makes me think that, uh, that the
mask must be playing some important psychological role in the

(26:53):
in what horror fiction does. Because masks are not that common.
It can't just be that this is in hired by
the way the real events went down, right, And likewise,
we're not we're not pointing this out to say, oh, look,
horror movies are getting it wrong, man, you know, Like, no,
we're not saying that horror movies should be more like
real crimes. In fact, I do not really want them

(27:14):
to be like real crimes, right. I agree with with
that sentiment very much so. But so at this point,
let's stop and just consider the reasons based on these accounts,
one might actually wear a mask during a murder um
and we can consider where these examples line up, so
to hide one's identity, to intimidate, to augment one's identity,

(27:35):
or to become someone else protective purposes like the gas
mask or one that doesn't really come up in any
of these cases, but one could conceivably wear it, wear
a mask just because it's cold outside, like I'm thinking
a ski mask or something. And with the with the
zodiac example, we seem to see an attempt at the
first three, right, but identity protection might well fall behind

(27:56):
augmentation again. Think of the zodiac some but also just
that intimidation factor again. Broad daylight attack on two individuals
and it's thought that he he may have you know,
he may have wished to benefit from some sort of
a shock uh feature in his attack, but he was
also assuming in identity, right, I means yeah, because he

(28:17):
had the zodiac symbol, and this seems to fall in
line with the identity that he projected in his letters
to the media. Now let's stopped to think though about
the various reasons not to wear a mask during your crimes.
Reasons that I can think, uh, you know, must have
presented themselves to these individuals who attempted to use mass
in their in their crimes. First of all, it's highly

(28:38):
conspicuous if you're standing around a park, uh, dressed in
a black hood with a with a crazy symbol on
your chest. Uh, people are gonna probably take notice. Also,
it's it's gonna be it's liable to limit your senses,
especially your vision. You're gonna you're gonna have a hard
time seeing what you're doing. It's also liable to be
a bit uncomfortable, and it's a calling card which might

(29:00):
be desirable uh to you. But also they can certainly
play against you. For instance, UH looked at a rare
case of an individual. This is a spree killer named
Daniel Gonzalez from two thousand four who committed at least
one murder while wearing a hockey mask inspired by Jason Vorhees.
But the mask in this case ended up with the

(29:22):
victims DNA on it and was used in his conviction.
I think an important point and to think keep in
mind and all of this too, though, is when you
look at the modus operandi of so many serial and
mask killers. Serial killers especially often work by surprise and subterfuge.
In either case, it often makes far more sense not
to look like a monster or a weirdo, but rather

(29:44):
to look exactly like yourself or or like a normal
human at least even if you disguise yourself slightly in
some fashion. Yeah, they're probably just trying to look like anybody. Yeah. Ultimately,
wearing a mask is not a careful thing to do.
And being careful that's that's ah, that's part in martial
to organize serial killers, especially people like Ted Bundy, John

(30:04):
Wayne Gacy, rather than of course a disorganized serial killers
that are going to be more uh you know, impulse based.
So what is this masking incongruity between real serial killers
in the killers of horror fiction? Tell us, Well, I
think we're onto something. Uh. First of all, we just
mass traditions, Like we've long used mass to tell stories.

(30:28):
So if we tell stories about fantastic killers, uh, in
our horror movies, we're gonna use masks again. Like it's
just two it's just it's just such a part, a
rich part of our history. But I think ultimately has
far It has far less to do with with with
actual serial killers and what they're doing, and far more
to do with how we're processing the idea that the

(30:50):
human beings are capable of these crimes. Yeah, what we
think about them, what they represent in our fiction, not
what real murderers are actually like. Now that note's take
another break, and when we come back, we're going to
talk a little bit about executioners, mobs, high priests, and uh,
and of course the Purge movies. Thank thank alright, we're

(31:12):
back now. Joe, you're a big Purge fan. I am not.
I've never seen a Purge movie. I have to admit
that I have not either, but I did really enjoy
the Rick and Morty episode that has a Purge planet
and it sounds like an unsustainable planet. Yeah. Well, the
Purge concept, for anyone was not familiar, as the whole
idea is like one night a year where all crimes
are legal, mainly murder. That's what the horror movies mostly

(31:35):
interested in, but conceivably other crimes are also legal. I'm
not exactly sure how the legislation works. So yeah, you
have to wonder why do people focus on murder when
they could just focus on trying to steal as much
money as possible. Yeah, or ignore environmental regulations. I don't know,
There's so many things you could do, right, I guess
there's like that's the one night of the year the
company does all the polluting. We store it up all

(31:59):
year and then they just dump. Well, we've had four
Purge movies thus far, well one parody Purge movie on
top of that, it's not related. And then there's a
Purge TV show coming out. Maybe the Purge TV show,
we'll get into white collar Purge crimes. Oh man, one can.
One can only hope. But in these movies and in
the the other things they've inspired, like the Rick and
Morty that you see this idea that people are taken

(32:22):
to the streets and jumping into each other's homes wearing masks,
often really well designed masks. They're often very impressive and creative. Uh.
And in Rick and Morty they kind of present this
idea that people have been working all year on their
Purge masks, you know, like they're going to a science
fiction convention. Oh, is their cosplay. Yeah, except there purging right,

(32:44):
But you knows is there's the fantastic side to all
of this. But but certainly we do see masks worn
by protesters, terrorists, mob participants. You can be anonymous when
you wear these masks and these hoods or what have you.
And there's also that in imidation factor. Just think of
you know, groups like the klu Klux Klan, etcetera. Yeah,
there's the idea that that putting on a mask can

(33:06):
bring out are the worst of us, the worst part
of humanity can escape when your identity is hidden. Yeah.
And this this gets into a number of different psychological effects,
some that we've talked on the show about. For instance,
in clothed cognition um. This has com up on the
podcast a couple of times. The roles and attributes associated
with a particular uniform or costume influence the self reflection

(33:29):
of the individual and their choices their actions. And this
can be as simple as you dress like a doctor
and someone hands you a clipboard and you start feeling
you feel a little smarter, a little more confident. Yeah.
You you can give people a sense of authority by
addressing them in a certain way. Address people in Uh,
in like a military uniform, you might be able to
make them feel more powerful and aggressive and authoritative. Right.

(33:52):
It's kind of a reminder that when we dress in
costumes for Halloween. Uh, you know, we're we're playing with
the deeper magic of the human condition. A past episode
of stuffable in your mind. My Halloween costume made me
do it. Uh. We go into this a little bit
and uh, and we've discussed them among different studies. There's
one study about how masked children take more candy than

(34:14):
unmasked children. That was a nine study. Yeah, there are
a few studies along these lines, and whether correctly or not,
people have long associated masks with like impunity to do evil.
Like in medieval Catholic France, there was this thing called
the Feast of Fools that I was reading about. It
was a feast that was celebrated by by members of

(34:35):
the church. That was originally, I think, a more liturgically
grounded observance of inversions, as in Jesus saying the first
she'll be last, and the last she'll be first. But
I think over time it developed into something with a
reputation for mischief, like people disguise their identities with masks, costumes,
or faces covered in mud or dung, and there would

(34:56):
be wild partying, gambling. Mockery of authority is often taking
place within the church itself, so you'd go in the
church and gamble and make fun of the bishop or something.
It's also associated with the quote boy Bishop tradition, where
you'd take some random boy, dress him up like the bishop,
and he'd get to be in charge for the day.
So I might say, you know, the old bishop smells

(35:17):
like doo doo, Go take a bath um and this
This seemed to go on through the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries,
despite a lot of attempts by the Church to eliminate it,
or to at least eliminate the wilder aspects of the
feast and make it more pious and apparently Pope Innocent.
The third tried to ban masks, reasoning that it was
the masking which allowed people to engage in the sinful

(35:39):
misbehavior which they would not engage in if their faces
were visible, though of course, there was another element here
in that the masking often had people not just hiding
their own identity but assuming another, like you could put
on a crusader mask or a Lady in waiting mask
or a jester mask. Interesting. I'm also reminded of the

(36:00):
tradition and in various alpine regions where you'd have the
crampus costumes come out closer to Christmas and they would
go on these rampages. And that has of course been
a that's been an area of concern where people would say, Oh,
the cramp the crampuses are getting a little out of hand.
We need a crack down on the crampuses. They're scaring
the children a little bit too much. They're getting too
into it. Crampus knocked is over the line this year. Um,

(36:24):
you know, I I've I've neglected to mention, of course,
the the V for Vendetta masks that the Guy Fox
mass that were embraced by the organization anonymous. If I
guess you can kind of a loose organization and non
centralized organization, well do you mean the idea that, But
potentially a mask can help with d individuation where you
come to believe, you know, I'm not this individual person

(36:47):
with individual responsibilities, but I'm sort of like a feature
of a group, right. And it's also kind of reminder
of just how disconnected the mask can become from the
original thing. Like we we kind of don't think about
it with with Jason Vorhees, like we don't think, oh, man,
it's a movie about hockey. We just know that's Jason's mask.
And likewise, if you see a video, like a grainy

(37:10):
video on YouTube and somebody's wearing the Guy Fox mask,
we don't go, oh, guy Fox, or we don't think
oh v for Vendetta, that was a great Alan Moore. Uh,
comic book, the graphic novels amazing. Now we think, oh,
it's the it's the anonymous organization. Now. One thing you
have to wonder is when you see people behaving badly
in groups, is it because the group provides anonymity or

(37:32):
for some other reason associated with being in a group,
Like is anonymity alone enough to get people to break
social taboos? I was looking at one study on this.
I don't think it looks like a particularly good study.
It's a small sample size, it's kind of a strange
test condition. But for what it's worth, given these caveats, Uh,
this was the nineteen seventies and the Journal of Social Psychology.

(37:54):
But is this one by Vorhees Jay at All? No,
this is by Mathis and Guest called anonymity and group
anti social behavior. They got twenty six people, sixteen men
and ten women from a personality course at Western Illinois
University UH and they tried to get them to judge
how willing they would be to engage in what they

(38:15):
called anti social behavior. The actual reality of this was
carrying a sign through the college cafeteria reading masturbation is
fun um under four conditions, which would be alone, undisguised,
alone disguised, in a group undisguised, and in a group disguised.
And the subjects were basically they were more willing to

(38:38):
carry the sign. They would do it for less money
if they could do it, if they could do it
in a group, and if they could do it disguised.
So both conditions seemed to make people more willing to
do this action that they were calling anti social behavior.
But as I've said, I don't know, this study seems
a little iffy to me. I love the experiment, though

(39:00):
more delightful experiments I've seen. Well, they said anonymity apparently
they thought was an explanation for group anti social behavior. Now, there,
of course, a ton of different mass traditions throughout the
world a lot of times involving groups wearing the masks,
and we can't mention all of them here. Maybe we'll
come back and do it in an episode in the

(39:20):
future they will explore more of them. But I ran
across an interesting one from the Philippines though, a Catholic
Holy Weak tradition called Marionis festival. And in this you
see a number of different masks worn, um, people taking
on various roles from you know, the Passion of the Christ,
the Crucifixion, and so forth. But in part of it

(39:41):
you see masked executioners of chasing the Figure of Longeness
through the streets. This, of course, is the the figure
that's supposed to have actually driven the spear into Christ's side.
But in this uh, this mask though, Uh, he's depicted
as a cyclops. Yeah. And then when they and then

(40:01):
when they finally catch him, uh, they execute him after
he testifies to Christ's power. That seems like a weird
version somehow has something to do in my mind with
like the mine ads, uh, you know, taking on their
their skins and costumes in a way, disguising their identities
when they behave in a frenzy as a mob now
we should also point out that executioners have worn the

(40:24):
mass as well to protect their identity and or to
invoke some key narrative point in the proceedings right, divine justice,
the faceless actions of the state, etcetera. And sometimes these
are mere hoods. But you can also find examples of
medieval masks that incorporate iron or made of iron that
the executioner would wear. I want to come back to

(40:45):
this in a minute with reference to Jason Vorhees. Okay, well,
let's head back to Jason Vorhees territory at this point.
So I think a lot of what we've talked about
here gives us the emma we need to understand what's
going on, sometimes intentionally, but more often I think accidentally. Uh.
In the creation of slasher films. I mean, that's one
of the wonderful things about about horror movies and b movies,

(41:06):
I think, is that oftentimes, uh, the creators don't even
realize like the potent symbols and UH and narrative elements
that they're playing with. Well, yeah, I mean sometimes people
ask like ask me, why do you like horror movies? Like,
with the implication being that horror movies are mostly bad,
which I agree they are, and the most movies of

(41:26):
all kinds I think are bad. Um, but they're mostly bad.
They're stupid and all that. And I agree that most
horror movies are bad and stupid, but they're they're very
psychologically interesting and culturally interesting in a way that not
all say, bad dramas or other types that are bad
comedies are horror movies, I feel like are almost always,

(41:50):
even when they're not very well made narratives, they are
revealing about the the creatures and the cultures that made them. Yeah,
and and about this, you know what is a widely
viewed and often communally viewed slasher film but a public
mask ritual. I mean, it's it's especially easy to think
about this when we attend again these haunted attractions that

(42:13):
feature actors dressed up as these various masked murderer characters.
You know, especially uh a Jason Vories or Michael Myers
or leather Face, you know something where the mask is
is a found item essentially, or it's easily acquired at
the grocery store. Um. I I wonder if they connect
with these deeper traditions. Uh so, you know, yeah, crazy

(42:36):
realistic monster, makeup, special effects. They're cool and all, but
there's something about the mask itself. You know, this is
not merely a human, but a human playing a part,
taking on a role, and perhaps the authority of a
primal force, even the authority of a divine force. Yeah,
I think there's something to that, because you know, honestly,
don't we see this in the evolution of the way

(42:59):
we we depict Jason Vorhees mask on VHS and DVD covers. Well,
if you look at the evolution of Friday thirteenth, you know,
VHS box art or posters for the films, the first
few movies just emphasized murder. They're just like, okay, there's
slaughter going on. But starting somewhere after Jason puts on

(43:22):
the familiar hockey mask and we get to see the
hockey mask repeated, the mask becomes the focus of the franchise, right.
It stops being about how many people will he kill
this time? It starts being about the mask, And often
the mask is like glowing or something. Yeah. Like, there's
some especially on some of the VHS covers I was

(43:42):
looking at, and the ones I remember from my childhood
seeing on the shelves there's like there's a glowing light
behind the mask shining through the mask. Holes in the
hockey mask are all like they're they're like Spielberg shafts
of light. You know. Yeah, it's like it's like God
is speaking to us through Jason Vorhees, Like it's this.
There's something to this, man, I mean, it gets this

(44:03):
in a minute. And it's strange given how few supernatural
elements there are in Friday the Thirteenth, right, I mean,
there are supernatural elements to present themselves. Yes, he's essentially
this undead creature. Eventually, but part six he becomes basically
a zombie. Right, But there's not a lot of divine
supernatural elements here, at least not on the surface. But
then look at those VHS covers. Look at the divine

(44:26):
light shining or the demonic light shining through that mask.
I think that that also that in contemplating real life
serial killers, we we like the idea of dehumanizing them
in our fiction because surely they don't look like everyone else.
I mean, and surely especially they don't look like they
can't look like me, But so we have to obscure
them with a mask. They're transformed by the mask and

(44:48):
underneath that mask, then they're they're surely going to be
some sort of fleshly monstrosity or deformity that denotes inner
distortion as well, because of course that's the the other
old trope, right. Uh, that just goes goes back through
most of human history, that that the outer distortion represents
inner distortion. Yeah. As much as we love monsters in

(45:08):
in fiction and myth, I mean, one of the sad
things about the idea of a monster, like the roots
of that word, going back to this superstition that people
with abnormal physical appearances reflect some kind of sinfulness or
curse or monstrosity and their character. Yeah. So the unmasking
scene where you get to see a distorted face underneath,
it's kind of like, oh, thank goodness, my grotesque understanding

(45:31):
of the world is confirmed. Um, ugly people do ugly things,
which is ridiculous when you when you call it out
like that. But uh, but I think it is that
they are these examples are tying into that tradition. Uh.
It's also interesting to observe that many mass traditions also
seem to employ and unmasking. We saw this in some
of the first nation's rituals that we explored in the

(45:53):
Winter People episodes of what I Think last year, where
if you remove the mask, you're able to cure an
individual that has been overcome by a particular ritualistic madness.
Oh yeah, and because the ritual mask is is a
magical item and it denotes this barrier between us and
the other. So I, in preparing for this episode, came

(46:14):
across a book that I thought had some really interesting
insights here about Jason Vorhees specifically, but it can tell
us more about the role of masks in horror in general. Um.
And this is a book called Horror Zone, The Cultural
Experience of Contemporary Horror Cinema, published in two thousand and
ten by ib Trus, edited by a scholar named Ian Conrich.
And there's a chapter on the Friday the Thirteen films

(46:36):
written by Conrich himself, And so he starts by drawing
comparisons between the Friday the Thirteenth series with Jason and
the Hockey Mask and the tradition of the Theater of
the Grand Genial in Paris, which went from eight to
nineteen sixty two and which specialized in these blood bath
dramas full of torture and mutilation and murder and gore.

(46:58):
And there were these big fan ends of the Grand
gain Yall who'd come to the theater all the time,
the genial airs. And there was a drama scholar named
mel Gordon who did a study of the Grand gain
y'all that Conridge discusses to get a sense of what
this theater was like. Here's a section that Conridge quotes
from Gordon. There's a company manager for the theater who

(47:19):
quote frequently purchased different animal eyeballs from taxidermists, not only
for visual realism when characters eyes were gouaged out, but
for the organ's ability to bounce when they hit the
stage floor. Now that's some real commitment that that's a
stage drama. These little horror plays they were putting on
in Paris, and they wanted real, realistic gore effects, and

(47:41):
for some reason people were eating this up. One of
the interesting things to me is that Gordon says that
many of these plays were short, and a regular evenings
program at a theater might include three gruesome horror plays
and three comedies or farces, and they would alternate back
and forth. And this type of lineup where you'd have
a gruesome horror play with gore and then a comedy

(48:01):
or a force and then keep going back and forth.
Was known as hot and cold showers. Well, this makes
me think though of how, especially a lot of the
horror movies, you'll have that up and down right of
like bad comedy and horrific violence. Absolutely, yeah, that's that's
what I was highlighting here. Uh yeah, there is a
sense of of wanting to like chill you with some

(48:23):
kind of horrific site and then make you laugh. Now.
Of course, Connor says that the Friday the Thirteenth films
are comparable to Grand Guineall productions in their emphasis on
slaughter and the the illusions used to create the appearance
of gore. So Sean Cunningham, the director of the first
Friday the Thirteenth movie, discusses how the makeup effects created
by Tom Savini for the movie We're so good and

(48:45):
so convincing that he would be tempted to keep the
scene running and show much more explicit gore than would
normally be warranted by good filmmaking. Um, just because they
had put so much work into the blood and gore
effects and they looked so realistic and so good, which
I've never read that before, but that makes a lot
of sense to me, Like the turn toward an emphasis

(49:07):
on blood and gore in these slasher movies basically just
being a product of the fact that their makeup effects
people were so good. Yeah, you know, I think back
to some of the terrible horror movies I've seen where
like where they just do not know to cut away
from the gore effect because the first like at for
a second, the gore effect is highly effective, and then

(49:28):
you start staring at it a little bit longer and
you begin to see the cracks in the facade. Well,
it's kind of like, you know a movie that's got
a fancy car in it, and there are a lot
of scenes with that car because it's like, the filmmakers,
we paid to lease this car, you know, we might
as well get a lot out of it. It's like,
once you've sunk enough costs and to get a really
good thing, you're tempted to just over indulge in it

(49:50):
because of the sunk costs. Yeah, if if you you're
not having to worry about using Nicholas Cage for just
one hour of filmmaking, if you've got if you've got
him for the full week, you just let him go, right.
But so getting back to the mask, Conrad has these
thoughts on the role of Jason's mask, and some of
it has to do with Jason functioning very much like

(50:10):
as you mentioned earlier, an executioner and playing the same
cultural role as one. In writing on Grand Guenial, Gordon
writes that these theater performances, the gory ones on stage quote,
traded on sensationalistic plots and the exploitation of their audiences
visceral curiosity. In a way, they acted as fantasy substitutes

(50:33):
for the guillotine and its public executions. Now that's interesting
because so public executions with large audiences used to be
a regular feature of public life in many societies, especially
you know societies in Europe where they've more recently been
phased out, either through abolition of the death penalty or
through massive reduction, and how often it's applied through changing

(50:55):
the venue to make them private instead of public. There's
clearly something that rove huge crowds out to see the
workings of the guillotine or the Halifax jibbit or the gallows,
the burning at the stake, the breaking on the wheel,
and when you couldn't go out and see that kind
of stuff anymore, did whatever drove people to attend those

(51:15):
things disappear? I would say, probably not right, that there's
still going to be this hunger, But how are you
going to appease it? So, Conrad writes, quote, Like Halloween's
Michael Myers and the Texas Chainsaw Masker's leather face, the
executioner's mask establishes a cold, mechanical and faceless killer, devoid

(51:35):
of personality. The mask also adds the detachment that the executioner,
the professional killer requires in order to function unhindered. Jason's
hockey mask is so much part of his identity, his
one essential accessory, that without it he is incomplete and
maybe even unable to function convincingly as the executioner and so.

(51:59):
Author Allie S. Kennetti, who wrote a book called Crowds
and Power, wrote that the power of the mask lies
in the fact that it is unlike a human face
rigid quote. What gives the mask it's interdictory quality is
the fact that it never changes. Everything behind the mask
is mysterious above all its separates, and of course interdictory.

(52:20):
Here means enforcing a prohibition. Right, the executioner, the embodiment
of the harshest end of the law and of justice,
is masked in order to be made without a human face,
because human faces, even even mean human faces, can convey uncertainty, individuality, vulnerability,
even maybe sympathy, and the inscrutable mask sort of leaves

(52:43):
the victim feeling baffled and subservient, being put to death
by a force beyond human appeal. So this makes me
think about what's going on with this big face reveal
that happens so often towards the end of these movies,
you know, like when Jason's mask gets knocked off and
you get to see his face. Conridge thinks that these
reveals are designed to show always that the killer is

(53:06):
not just a normal human wearing the mask, but some
sort of aberration more in it than a he. And
I think, if this interpretation is correct, it's sort of
as if you saw the execution or raise his mask
to you, and where you expected to see a human
face that might show you an expression of pity. Instead,
what you get is something just as monstrous and inhuman

(53:29):
underneath the mask. It's almost like taking the mask off
and showing you Jason's monster face is letting you know
that there is no appeal, there's no chance that he's
going to change his mind about this. Has anyone ever
made a slasher film where there is just like a
black hole underneath the mask? I think that would be
a nice psychedelic twist on it. Well, it's just a

(53:50):
complete void and no faces, absolute darkness. Yeah, that's interesting.
I've definitely never seen it. Look at us Stewart is
given away wonderful slasher movie ideas in this uh So,
Conridge quotes a scholar named Bernard Veldt who has written that,
since Jason wears a hockey mask, and I think this
is a pretty terrible take, he is an angry god

(54:11):
quote playing a sport or a game with human life.
But Conrich, I think, does not agree with this take,
and I don't agree with this take either. Instead, he
he points out that the movies emphasize Jason not as
a game player, but as an efficient, skilled professional, sort
of rapidly and systematically dispatching his victims one after another,

(54:32):
with no particular indication that he's playing games or getting
any personal sense of enjoyment out of it. And I
would say. In other words, this means he's behaving like
a medieval headsman with a full schedule of executions lined
up for the day. And I think this is correct.
This is how Jason is portrayed in the Friday the
Thirteenth movies. He is efficient and systematic and business like.

(54:54):
He it's like watching someone do their job. Yeah, and
this is I think this is one of the reasons
why for so long everyone was like, Oh, when's he
gonna fight Freddie? Because Freddie is the complete opposite of
that Freddie. Yeah, yeah, fred Freddie is a sadist and uh,
and Jason is a pro And personally, I think this
Jason as professional executioner model is highly salient as to

(55:18):
what role these films are playing culturally and why they
are what they are, and what role the mask plays. Um.
Think about the way that in movies like this, the
murders generally don't come as a surprise, you know. Rather,
there there's sort of a series of repeated cues that
a character is about to meet the acts. Uh. The
character gets isolated from the others, their music and film

(55:41):
pacing cues to let you know that a murderer is coming.
They're certain cliches and tropes that are invoked. Is anybody there?
And then it happens, And it strikes me as very
much like sort of having the next condemned prisoner being
brought up to the executioner's block and allowed a prayer
or final words or whatever in this repeated and predictable pattern.

(56:03):
Here's another parallel. How often the murders and slasher movies
can feel like punishments for particular sins, taboo violations, or
just general character flaws that the victims have prominently displayed
in the scenes right beforehand. Oh yes, this is a
this is a classic part of the whole genre. Right,
you have a campful of horrible kids, and you're gonna

(56:24):
have to get through all of those before you get
to that that final girl who actually has virtue, right,
the one, the one who's the innocent, who's undeserving of
the punishment. So yeah, I think there's something that Connors
is really onto here. I think the model of Jason
as a sort of execution or of European history, the
sovereign's representative, there's something to that. And of course, as

(56:45):
we mentioned a minute ago, the mask really helps with
the execution or persona. I think it's highly possible that
a major role played by films like The Friday the
Thirteenth films is they're tapping into something that was lost
when public executions went away, This desire people had to
see some kind of disembodied arm of justice enacting systematic

(57:09):
violence against people who break taboos. You know this, this
makes me think of Paris Hilton. Um. I don't know
if you remember, there was a Harmony that came out
the House of Wax. I believe itself a remake of
past wax movies, just like a legacy of you know,
the wax based horror movies. But it was a pretty
big deal at the time because Paris Hilton wasn't like

(57:30):
kind of peak uh fame slash infamy. Um. And she
has a role in the film and she is killed
by the unknown murder and you can kind of see
that as like this weird and I and and kind
of I have to say, unsettling, like the public desire
for the fictional executioner to take care of Paris Hilton,

(57:54):
for the for the population people. Yeah, the movie was
advertised Wait did you already just say that the movie
was adver ties as come watch Paris Die. Basically, yeah,
that was basically the techno that. I don't know if
that was the actual tablet line, but things and there
were things advertising the movie that said that, And I
mean that's like, on one hand, you could see, you know,

(58:14):
I'm not saying I'm a big fan of Paris Hilton
or anything, but there is something kind of like nasty,
maybe somewhat misogynistic about that, just like taking some prominent,
maybe rich, annoying female celebrity and saying, now you all
get to see what it looks like if she gets murdered.
But this does make me think there's a possibility for
for this for the future. Again, here's another free idea

(58:36):
for everyone out there. Um, it's essentially celebrity Big Brother.
But but you have Jason Vorhees on hand to dispatch
fictionally of course, to dispatch everybody in the Big Brother House.
And that's every season like whoever the most uh you know, um,
but reviled the celebrities are too. Given um, given season,

(58:58):
then those are the ones that are brought on the show.
That sort of what these movies are though. But I
wonder if it gets it, maybe it gets some of
that public distaste out of their system too. It's almost
like a it's like a mock execution, you know, it's
almost like a parody uh taking place, you know, and
like maybe thanks to the House of Wax, people were

(59:18):
able to say, Okay, we're all right with Paris. Now
she's paid for her crimes, we can move on. We
saw her diet in that horror movie. Well, I don't
remember who the killer was in that movie or if
a mask was involved, but I do think that that
it's correct that the mask is an important part of
establishing this uh this like disembodied enactment of justice, execution

(59:40):
or arm of the law kind of punishment. Well, it's
worth noting that in many of these slasher films there
may not be an actual mask, but thanks to the
way it is shot, the killer remains faceless. I'm thinking,
of course, about the various Dario Orgento films where you
just see hands enacting crimes. Or there's one segment in
the original vhf us Um anthology film that came out

(01:00:02):
where the the killer in the woods, their their face
is always covered by VHS tracking errors. Oh yeah, I
remember that, which can be interpreted is essentially a kind
of mask. It's like the medium itself coming for you. Ye. Now,
another thing I want to say is that all this
stuff I've been saying about the Friday the Thirteenth movies,
it doesn't apply equally across all movies with masked killers.

(01:00:25):
I would say a counter example would be better movies, generally,
better movies that have more likable characters, where you're like
invested in their survival and their their peril raises your stress.
You're sort of where you're with the characters. You know.
A bad thing about the Friday the Thirteenth movies is
you're just generally not with the characters. You're not worried

(01:00:47):
about whether they're going to make it or not. And
that's been a long criticism of the Friday the Thirteenth
movies is that there's something kind of nasty at the
core of them where you're not hoping the characters survive.
You're just waiting to see which one of the gets
killed next and how again, making it more kind of
like going to a public execution. Yeah, the characters without

(01:01:08):
masks are kind of, to a certain extent as inhuman
as the character in the mask. I wonder how the
mask functions differently in horror, where you genuinely do like
the characters. You want them to survive, and you're you're
trying to see how they will get through it. Well,
then you're begging for them to, uh, to unmask the villain, right,
I mean, it's it's kind of like the the ideas,

(01:01:29):
like the law is oppressive and horrible until it goes
after the people that do not deserve it's it's wrath
when it becomes unjust, and then we want to see it's, uh,
it's secrets uncovered. Then we want to see the executioner's
mask ripped from its face. Yeah, maybe that's what's going
on in the scene. I'm sure you remember this, Robert.
There's a scene that has never much made sense to

(01:01:50):
me in the original Halloween where Michael Myers mask comes
off brief briefly and you see his face and then
he just sort of puts the mask back on. The
face revealed doesn't really show anything. It's just a guy.
It's just a guy in his face. Uh. And I've
never understood why that's in the movie. Maybe it's it's
a brief moment of victory, because in Halloween it's not

(01:02:13):
quite the same you're you're very much with Jamie Lee Curtis, like,
you know, you want her to get through this. You
don't want to see her punished or anything. Yeah, that
is a weird moment, Like that's one that I legitimately
had forgotten that that was a part of the original Halloween.
It's always a surprising moment and I'm not sure what
it means. One quick side note I couldn't finish this
episode without mentioning, is I remember the story our colleague

(01:02:35):
Ben Boland, one of the hosts of stuff that I
don't want you to know and ridiculous history. Uh. He
told Uh, he told a group of us one time
in the office that he got pulled over for driving
with a werewolf mask on, And I asked him, is
that true? And he said, yes, it is true. He
was wearing a werewolf mask driving a car that was
in Georgia. He wasn't given a ticket, but the the

(01:02:56):
the cop who pulled him overtold him he could not
drive with a mask on one and he did. He
still doesn't know quite why that is h He's also
he said he'd driven with a batman mask on before
and never gotten pulled over for that. But did get
pulled over for the werewolf mask. Interesting, Well, I mean
I'm imagining there's less of visibility with the werewolf mask. Alright, Well,

(01:03:16):
we're gonna leave it off there. I had a lot
of fun here today talking about slasher movies, mass traditions
and really just kind of trying to dive deep into
something that's very easy to take for granted and just
dismiss it's just some silly aspect of our silly horror movies.
But I think it's anything but as usual. Even our
silliest horror movies tell us something about ourselves, all right.

(01:03:39):
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