June 13, 2025 • 21 mins
Holly and Tracy talk about Tracy growing up in a mostly Protestant community with little exposure to Catholicism. They also talk about the Gorsuch family's ties to John Wilkes Booth.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production
of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday, Am Holly Fry and
I'm Tray c V. Wilson. We talked about Pope Leo
the thirteenth this week. Sure did. These are always tricky
(00:21):
because I wanna always include as much as I can about,
you know, their positions on religion without being without offering
commentary on it. But it's tricky, especially when it fell
to you to read some of the more like super
pro old school Catholicism stuff that he wrote, right, I
(00:46):
more struggled with the grammatical construction than like the content.
I'm like, you know, I read whatever, whatever we're quoting,
I read it. That was not my personal words that
are coming out of my mouth. It's a quote. But
like there were multiple times that there were just the
words were in an order that my brain was really
(01:08):
having a hard time with. Yeah, And some of that
is that it's translated from Latin, right, And some of
that is that it was translated a long time ago,
when it was pretty customary for a lot of English
language official documents to be more stilted. Anyway, Yeah, I
don't know who did those translations, but I have so
(01:29):
little familiarity with like any of the like doctrine of
the Catholic Church. Ohh, because like I grew up in
an area that was overwhelmingly Protestant Christian, Right, I feel
like I could count the number of like Catholic students
(01:51):
in my school classes in single digits, being one digit
being my one finger holding it up to count one person.
And some of that was because there were Catholic private
schools that a lot of the Catholic kids went to
that I would not have known otherwise. But just like
that was overwhelmingly there were the flavors of Protestantism that
(02:12):
were mostly what was represented in my day to day life.
So it's like most of my familiarity is more the
things that are widely represented in various popular culture, like
the fact that the pope exists and confession and monasteries,
like you sort of absorb those kinds of ideas through
(02:36):
media and whatever. And then when we were getting into
things about his documents that he was writing, I was like,
none of this is really connecting to these in my
brain very well, right, Yeah, it's interesting, right, I grew
up half my mother's side of the family very Roman Catholic,
so definitely grew up with that. And it was very
(02:59):
funny when Poplio the fourteenth was announced. Where was I.
I was somewhere. I think we were driving home from
either the Vets office or like coffee with a friend,
and Brian was reading it to me on his phone
because I was driving, and he was like, oh, he's
Poplio the fourteenth, and I was like, oh, this is
a very interesting choice. And I was just like spouting
(03:21):
off things I knew about Poplio the thirteenth to poor Brian,
who was like, okay. And I did see a lot
of news coverage of Leo the thirteenth that summated him
in ways that removed the complications of his papacy. And
there is an interesting thing that has emerged in like
(03:42):
the last twenty years where and even longer really probably
more like forty to fifty years, where historians and scholars,
you know, in the early half of the twentieth century,
there was a lot of like I don't want to
say whitewashing because that's not accurate, but there was a
lot of writing about him that made him seem much
(04:05):
more liberal than he was. Sure he was obviously in
some ways very progressive and liberal for his time. The
fact that there was a pope in the early nineteen
hundreds going no workers' unions was pretty groundbreaking. But he
also there was a lot of writing that left out
how much he was like, Nope, we're not gonna change
(04:25):
the church ever. Yeah, you gotta straighten up and fly
right if you want to be at our party. And
it was like a lot of that gets left out, right, Yeah,
And I mean that doesn't necessarily detract from the progressive
things he did, Yeah, but it is a partial picture,
and it oversimplifies the complexity of any human being, and
(04:47):
particularly a human being that does wield a lot of power.
Even though he may not have held the political maneuverability
in terms of like ruling papal states that prior press
had had, he still was very influential on a huge
portion of the global population. And as we mentioned at
the end, he was very good at outreach and pr
(05:10):
and talking to other people that were not part of
the Catholic Church right had power and you know, creating
relationships with them that he could then exert power through.
So he's really fascinating to me. Yeah, I was on
vacation when the conclave happened, and was not really looking
(05:31):
at news a lot because I was on vacation, hooray.
But I got a push a push notification on my
phone from a group chat that I'm in that just
said white smoke. And then like the next time I
actually looked at that group chat just had an enormously
(05:52):
long discussion and I was like, I'm not reading any
of this. But a couple of people had, like in
my social circle, had pointed to sort of threads of
analysis of like this choice of pope and what it
could mean and stuff like that, and I was reading
through them and I was like, I just I don't understand.
I don't know what half of these things that you're
(06:13):
talking about are. Like they were talking about different kind
of factions within the church, different movements that had happened. Yeah,
And I was like, I've never heard of any of
this at all, Like it's just not within my scope
in a lot of fos, right, Well, it is really
interesting to watch the ways the selection of the pope
(06:35):
has often been a hard shift from what has gone before.
That was almost one of the more unique things about
the selection of Leo the fourteenth is that they actually
said oh this was Pope Francis's pick. Well, then that's
our guy, Like it wasn't so much. No, no, we
(06:55):
should hard shift to a far more conservative stance than
Francis had because I was getting us in trouble or
picking a moderate like just so how quickly that conclave
played out and that they picked his guy was really interesting. Yeah,
I was. I was not expecting the Somebody had mentioned like, oh,
(07:16):
the conclave starting, and I was like, yeah, I'll probably
gone for a while. I was one hundred percent wrong
in that. This is why I should not talk about
things that I have a little familiarity. Well we did.
I mean, the thing is, though nobody knew. I mean
there were discussions going into that, Like the second Francis passed,
there was a lot of like, are they gonna like
(07:37):
rubber band back the other way? Are they gonna try
to find someone who's a little middle ground? Are they now?
Granted I do feel like there will be more middle
ground than people may be hoping with the new store,
but yeah, it's just the whole thing is fascinating to me,
and having been raised half Catholic, it's super fascinating. Like
(07:57):
when we were in Italy, and we were walking through
the Vatican Museum. I was losing my mind. Yeah, yeah,
and writing down names of popes as we went for
things that I wanted to cover in the future. Leo
the thirteenth was one of them. So this offered up
an opportunity because he is, you know, he gets a
lot of like nicknames that are very much like he
(08:21):
was a magical unicorn gateway between Catholicism and the new
era of industrialization. And I mean, I guess if you
really reduce things down, you could say that, yes, but
it's so much more complicated, and more recent scholars have
pointed out, like, hey, those versions that we read in
the nineteen teens about his life are really really adoring,
(08:46):
right right, Yeah, you know, any he's I'm fascinating. I'm
fascinated by it all. Yeah. We talked about the Christiana
incident this week. Yeah, I'm glad that you did this
(09:08):
one because it had been lingering on my short list
literally for years, just hanging out there, Christiana Riot with
a question mark afterward. Yeah, not even researched enough to
really think about whether riot was the correct term to
use there or not. Just there on the list. Yeah,
it gets written about and as we said at the
top of the show, the Christiana Riot, the Christianic Resistance,
(09:32):
the Christiana incident. And I think part of the problem
is that the actual details of what happened in those
you know, ninety minutes where things were really happening, are
so messy and confusing that there's almost no way to
know what the right thing was except that we know that, yeah,
the first shots fired were Gorsas people. Yeah, and we
(09:55):
like we've talked in various previous episodes about how often
things that are described as quote race riots, like that
term is loadfully incorrect and loaded in terms of describing
what actually happened, which was often a white mob attacking
(10:16):
a black community that then became described as a race riot. Yes,
there's an interesting, weird tie in that I discovered that
doesn't really fit in the narrative. But I was like, what, So,
Edward Gorsich had another son that was younger than Dickinson
(10:38):
named Thomas. Thomas went to school with and was friends
with a younger boy named John Wilkes Booth. Oh wow, Okay,
it's one of those things too. This comes up a
lot for me, and I imagine it does for you,
and really anyone that studies history, particularly of the US's
(11:01):
earlier years, because it's so populated now that the idea
of so many people knowing each other seems absurd. But
then you'll read these things and it's like, this person
was tied to this person, and I also knew this person,
and I'm like, were there seven people living in the
US for a long time? But it really was much
smaller in terms of population than it is now. It's
(11:22):
hard to consider. Even so, that's still a weird coincidence
in my opinion. John Wilkes Booth just in case anybody
doesn't remember, I remember, but just in case, is the
person who assassinated Abraham Lincoln the Wild Times. This did
become for me such a fascinating look at what all
(11:42):
was going on, And I highly recommend if people find
this story interesting, that you go read William Parker's story
in The Atlantic. It's listed in the show notes as
one of the sources. Because he is a character in
a way, not in the jovial way that you would
often use that term, but like he sounds like an
(12:03):
intense dude that was very ready to go. If it
was like, all right, great, we gotta fight these people.
We gotta fight these people. There's no questions about it.
And like, there's a phrasing that he used at one
point where he was talking about one of the things
that his group of men, and it's very interesting because
(12:24):
even in older write ups and newer it's often described
as a vigilance society, but not very specifically a vigilante society,
which is an interesting thing. But that he would basically
like everybody had to like swear their intentions before they
would go do a thing like, listen, we all know
this guy is giving up people who are gonna get
(12:47):
kidnapped and taken away. We have reached a point where
we have to burn his house down. You guys all
have to swear that you're in for this and that
nobody's gonna like turntail. And he would do that before
any of these things, it sounds like, and that's right,
is just a very fascinating sort of careful way to
measure intention and quite thoughtful because at that point he
(13:09):
has all of them on some sort of record, like
everyone else in the group has witnessed. You said you
were going to do this, We're all doing this. That
just fascinated me, Yeah, he kind of abruptly left his
wife though, which makes me sad. I don't know what
the relationship was, right, but I was like, oh, that's
an Oh, that's a sad ending. All right. They've been
(13:30):
through so much. Stay together, make love last. They had
a lot of kids together. But you know, everybody's life
takes a different path. I don't know what his personal
life experience was. I was just thinking, you never know,
you never know. Maybe it was miserable. I don't know.
I don't know. I started working on this kind of
(13:58):
in a fit, and it was in the middle of
the night as I am off and working in the
middle of the night because myserk Katiean rhythms are weird.
And then I was like, took a few hours in
and I was like, I should check with Tracy because
I'm not sure if you had mentioned it at one
point in the past. But I was like, I feel
like this was when she was thinking about doing yeah
and bless you. You were like, yeah, but I haven't
done it, so go ahead. I have this list of
(14:21):
potential topic episodes, and it's like down at the bottom
of a spreadsheet that we use for planning out what
we're doing. Yeah, like what we're recording when, And it's
wild to me that we're still using a spreadsheet. I
just I have not thought of a better way to
do it to make sure that we have enough episodes
(14:43):
recorded to account for upcoming time off. But down below
it is just this like huge list of things that
I've been thinking about doing. And Christiana was up near
the top of that list. So it's totally possible that
looking at that calendar repeatedly, it's I probably remembered it. Yeah, yeah,
because I keep my list on my phone because sometimes
(15:06):
I'll do stuff like if I am traveling and I
haven't started a show yet, I'll be like, what am
I thinking of? I have time on this flight I
could maybe start. And I don't always have my computer
with me on those on trips, right. I make notes
If I'm out about, out and about in the world
and I see something that seems interesting, a lot of
(15:28):
times I will put it into a notes app. The
other day, I'm not going to spoil what it was,
But the other day I was I was doing a
thing that made me think of something to maybe do
as an episode, and so I just emailed myself from
my phone. Oh, yeah, I did, with just that one
word in the subject line, like, I'll remember what this
means on Tuesday when I returned to the office. How
(15:51):
often do you not remember what that means? I am
more likely to lose track of things that are in
the notes app, especially if like a really long time
has passed between putting something in a note and then
like if I kind of go I am running short
of ideas? Do I have anything that I didn't transfer
(16:12):
over to the list from the notes app? And occasionally
I will run into stuff that I will think at
first was a topic idea for the show, and it
will turn out to be something absolutely unrelated to the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I've done that. You know. Sometimes you'll be like, I
(16:32):
say you, I mean that in the general not you.
Tracy will say sure, you know. You'll be like, oh, yeah,
I'll remember, of course. I remember. This is very important.
It's made an impact on me. Sally made an impression
on me. I'll never forget what was that. I don't
even know this name means. Yes, when I emailed myself
this one word subject line of an email with nothing else,
I was like, I'm am I going to remember what
this means? When I get back to work, we'll see yeah,
(16:56):
sometimes I do and other times no. But I have
to write everything down because otherwise some other shiny object
will supplant it and then I want to game here,
or I'll be like a kiddie. Look listen. Unrelated to history,
unrelated to anything. I'm gonna tell you an amazing thing
that happened to me at the airport. Great. So we
(17:17):
are coming off of the weekend when I had a
lot of people that came into town to spend time
with us, which was wonderful. And while I was waiting
for one of my friends at the arrival's lobby, I
had seen this woman walk by a couple times holding
a puppy, and then she looped around a third time
and she looked at me and said, will you hold
this puppy while I set up a little playpen for him?
(17:40):
And I was like, are you also going to offer
me a million dollars and a cake? Like? What, of course,
give me the puppy. It was the cutest little thing.
And it turned out she was meeting the puppies new
people and they had not gotten in yet and the
puppy needed to stretch. It's like like, I can't carry
(18:00):
him around and I don't want to leave him in
the carrier. He's very young, and I'm worried he needs
a potty pad, and so I want to set up
his thing, but I can't hold him and do it.
Can you hold him? Right? It's just like the bliss
the sweetest puppy. The puppy licked my face and I
almost there was a flash in my brain of if
you just run out the door right now, this is
your puppy. I don't need a puppy. I'm not equipped
(18:21):
for a puppy. But it was so sweet. It was
a great moment. Yeah, sometimes the universe gives you puppy kisses. Yeah,
just cuz. Yeah. We some friends and I went on
a hike over the weekend and we were going to
hike and then we were going to get in the
car and drive approximately two and a half hours to
get back to where we all live. And as we
(18:44):
were in the in the car setting off, we all
kind of realized we were more tired than we thought
we were gonna be u And so my friend who
was driving, was like, Okay, if I see a place
to buy coffee, we're stopping. Yeah, said great, and so
we stopped at this like little locally owned coffee Roasterree.
We went and we just got something to drink. We
(19:07):
came out and there was somebody with the cutest little
corgi outside of the coffee shop, and so we all
got to have surprise corgi time. It's the best surprise
puppy time. It's pretty magical. Now you're making me want
to go and buy a coffee at a cute new place.
(19:27):
They're probably not, but you never know. But there's a
place near us that has a really yummy banana latte
that I'm obsessed with, and now I have to go
get another one. Okay, delicious. They also have a lavender
latte with is it Holapano sugar on it? Oh it
sounds wild, but it's so perfect and delicious. I love it. Anyway,
(19:49):
I'm glad we got to take a look at this
topic this week. I'll loop it back to history because
we always talk in broad strokes, not we people in general.
You know, there's a presumption that we I know, how
the Civil War like ratcheted up to the point that
it became a declaration of war. But there are a
lot of moments like this that are important steps on
(20:09):
the way to it, and I think it's important to
look at them because we're all experiencing a lot of
moments that are important and could potentially be steps to
bigger things that are scary, and I just think it's
important to look at history. Thank you. Yeah. If this
is your weekend coming up, I hope it kicks butt.
(20:31):
I hope you have a great time. I hope you
have a lot of fun and that surprise puppies land
in your world. Who know on that maybe the delicious
coffee if that's your thing, Even if it's not your weekend,
maybe you could have surprise puppy time. I hope that
everybody is kind to one another. And if you don't
have time off this weekend, I really hope that you
at least sneak a little bit of time away for
(20:52):
yourself in whatever way recharges you best, whether that is
alone or with people you love. We will be right
back here tomorrow, last episode, and then on Monday we
will have something brand new. Stuff you missed in History
Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(21:13):
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows,
Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production
of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday, Am Holly Fry and
I'm Tray c V. Wilson. We talked about Pope Leo
the thirteenth this week. Sure did. These are always tricky
(00:21):
because I wanna always include as much as I can about,
you know, their positions on religion without being without offering
commentary on it. But it's tricky, especially when it fell
to you to read some of the more like super
pro old school Catholicism stuff that he wrote, right, I
(00:46):
more struggled with the grammatical construction than like the content.
I'm like, you know, I read whatever, whatever we're quoting,
I read it. That was not my personal words that
are coming out of my mouth. It's a quote. But
like there were multiple times that there were just the
words were in an order that my brain was really
(01:08):
having a hard time with. Yeah, And some of that
is that it's translated from Latin, right, And some of
that is that it was translated a long time ago,
when it was pretty customary for a lot of English
language official documents to be more stilted. Anyway, Yeah, I
don't know who did those translations, but I have so
(01:29):
little familiarity with like any of the like doctrine of
the Catholic Church. Ohh, because like I grew up in
an area that was overwhelmingly Protestant Christian, Right, I feel
like I could count the number of like Catholic students
(01:51):
in my school classes in single digits, being one digit
being my one finger holding it up to count one person.
And some of that was because there were Catholic private
schools that a lot of the Catholic kids went to
that I would not have known otherwise. But just like
that was overwhelmingly there were the flavors of Protestantism that
(02:12):
were mostly what was represented in my day to day life.
So it's like most of my familiarity is more the
things that are widely represented in various popular culture, like
the fact that the pope exists and confession and monasteries,
like you sort of absorb those kinds of ideas through
(02:36):
media and whatever. And then when we were getting into
things about his documents that he was writing, I was like,
none of this is really connecting to these in my
brain very well, right, Yeah, it's interesting, right, I grew
up half my mother's side of the family very Roman Catholic,
so definitely grew up with that. And it was very
(02:59):
funny when Poplio the fourteenth was announced. Where was I.
I was somewhere. I think we were driving home from
either the Vets office or like coffee with a friend,
and Brian was reading it to me on his phone
because I was driving, and he was like, oh, he's
Poplio the fourteenth, and I was like, oh, this is
a very interesting choice. And I was just like spouting
(03:21):
off things I knew about Poplio the thirteenth to poor Brian,
who was like, okay. And I did see a lot
of news coverage of Leo the thirteenth that summated him
in ways that removed the complications of his papacy. And
there is an interesting thing that has emerged in like
(03:42):
the last twenty years where and even longer really probably
more like forty to fifty years, where historians and scholars,
you know, in the early half of the twentieth century,
there was a lot of like I don't want to
say whitewashing because that's not accurate, but there was a
lot of writing about him that made him seem much
(04:05):
more liberal than he was. Sure he was obviously in
some ways very progressive and liberal for his time. The
fact that there was a pope in the early nineteen
hundreds going no workers' unions was pretty groundbreaking. But he
also there was a lot of writing that left out
how much he was like, Nope, we're not gonna change
(04:25):
the church ever. Yeah, you gotta straighten up and fly
right if you want to be at our party. And
it was like a lot of that gets left out, right, Yeah,
And I mean that doesn't necessarily detract from the progressive
things he did, Yeah, but it is a partial picture,
and it oversimplifies the complexity of any human being, and
(04:47):
particularly a human being that does wield a lot of power.
Even though he may not have held the political maneuverability
in terms of like ruling papal states that prior press
had had, he still was very influential on a huge
portion of the global population. And as we mentioned at
the end, he was very good at outreach and pr
(05:10):
and talking to other people that were not part of
the Catholic Church right had power and you know, creating
relationships with them that he could then exert power through.
So he's really fascinating to me. Yeah, I was on
vacation when the conclave happened, and was not really looking
(05:31):
at news a lot because I was on vacation, hooray.
But I got a push a push notification on my
phone from a group chat that I'm in that just
said white smoke. And then like the next time I
actually looked at that group chat just had an enormously
(05:52):
long discussion and I was like, I'm not reading any
of this. But a couple of people had, like in
my social circle, had pointed to sort of threads of
analysis of like this choice of pope and what it
could mean and stuff like that, and I was reading
through them and I was like, I just I don't understand.
I don't know what half of these things that you're
(06:13):
talking about are. Like they were talking about different kind
of factions within the church, different movements that had happened. Yeah,
And I was like, I've never heard of any of
this at all, Like it's just not within my scope
in a lot of fos, right, Well, it is really
interesting to watch the ways the selection of the pope
(06:35):
has often been a hard shift from what has gone before.
That was almost one of the more unique things about
the selection of Leo the fourteenth is that they actually
said oh this was Pope Francis's pick. Well, then that's
our guy, Like it wasn't so much. No, no, we
(06:55):
should hard shift to a far more conservative stance than
Francis had because I was getting us in trouble or
picking a moderate like just so how quickly that conclave
played out and that they picked his guy was really interesting. Yeah,
I was. I was not expecting the Somebody had mentioned like, oh,
(07:16):
the conclave starting, and I was like, yeah, I'll probably
gone for a while. I was one hundred percent wrong
in that. This is why I should not talk about
things that I have a little familiarity. Well we did.
I mean, the thing is, though nobody knew. I mean
there were discussions going into that, Like the second Francis passed,
there was a lot of like, are they gonna like
(07:37):
rubber band back the other way? Are they gonna try
to find someone who's a little middle ground? Are they now?
Granted I do feel like there will be more middle
ground than people may be hoping with the new store,
but yeah, it's just the whole thing is fascinating to me,
and having been raised half Catholic, it's super fascinating. Like
(07:57):
when we were in Italy, and we were walking through
the Vatican Museum. I was losing my mind. Yeah, yeah,
and writing down names of popes as we went for
things that I wanted to cover in the future. Leo
the thirteenth was one of them. So this offered up
an opportunity because he is, you know, he gets a
lot of like nicknames that are very much like he
(08:21):
was a magical unicorn gateway between Catholicism and the new
era of industrialization. And I mean, I guess if you
really reduce things down, you could say that, yes, but
it's so much more complicated, and more recent scholars have
pointed out, like, hey, those versions that we read in
the nineteen teens about his life are really really adoring,
(08:46):
right right, Yeah, you know, any he's I'm fascinating. I'm
fascinated by it all. Yeah. We talked about the Christiana
incident this week. Yeah, I'm glad that you did this
(09:08):
one because it had been lingering on my short list
literally for years, just hanging out there, Christiana Riot with
a question mark afterward. Yeah, not even researched enough to
really think about whether riot was the correct term to
use there or not. Just there on the list. Yeah,
it gets written about and as we said at the
top of the show, the Christiana Riot, the Christianic Resistance,
(09:32):
the Christiana incident. And I think part of the problem
is that the actual details of what happened in those
you know, ninety minutes where things were really happening, are
so messy and confusing that there's almost no way to
know what the right thing was except that we know that, yeah,
the first shots fired were Gorsas people. Yeah, and we
(09:55):
like we've talked in various previous episodes about how often
things that are described as quote race riots, like that
term is loadfully incorrect and loaded in terms of describing
what actually happened, which was often a white mob attacking
(10:16):
a black community that then became described as a race riot. Yes,
there's an interesting, weird tie in that I discovered that
doesn't really fit in the narrative. But I was like, what, So,
Edward Gorsich had another son that was younger than Dickinson
(10:38):
named Thomas. Thomas went to school with and was friends
with a younger boy named John Wilkes Booth. Oh wow, Okay,
it's one of those things too. This comes up a
lot for me, and I imagine it does for you,
and really anyone that studies history, particularly of the US's
(11:01):
earlier years, because it's so populated now that the idea
of so many people knowing each other seems absurd. But
then you'll read these things and it's like, this person
was tied to this person, and I also knew this person,
and I'm like, were there seven people living in the
US for a long time? But it really was much
smaller in terms of population than it is now. It's
(11:22):
hard to consider. Even so, that's still a weird coincidence
in my opinion. John Wilkes Booth just in case anybody
doesn't remember, I remember, but just in case, is the
person who assassinated Abraham Lincoln the Wild Times. This did
become for me such a fascinating look at what all
(11:42):
was going on, And I highly recommend if people find
this story interesting, that you go read William Parker's story
in The Atlantic. It's listed in the show notes as
one of the sources. Because he is a character in
a way, not in the jovial way that you would
often use that term, but like he sounds like an
(12:03):
intense dude that was very ready to go. If it
was like, all right, great, we gotta fight these people.
We gotta fight these people. There's no questions about it.
And like, there's a phrasing that he used at one
point where he was talking about one of the things
that his group of men, and it's very interesting because
(12:24):
even in older write ups and newer it's often described
as a vigilance society, but not very specifically a vigilante society,
which is an interesting thing. But that he would basically
like everybody had to like swear their intentions before they
would go do a thing like, listen, we all know
this guy is giving up people who are gonna get
(12:47):
kidnapped and taken away. We have reached a point where
we have to burn his house down. You guys all
have to swear that you're in for this and that
nobody's gonna like turntail. And he would do that before
any of these things, it sounds like, and that's right,
is just a very fascinating sort of careful way to
measure intention and quite thoughtful because at that point he
(13:09):
has all of them on some sort of record, like
everyone else in the group has witnessed. You said you
were going to do this, We're all doing this. That
just fascinated me, Yeah, he kind of abruptly left his
wife though, which makes me sad. I don't know what
the relationship was, right, but I was like, oh, that's
an Oh, that's a sad ending. All right. They've been
(13:30):
through so much. Stay together, make love last. They had
a lot of kids together. But you know, everybody's life
takes a different path. I don't know what his personal
life experience was. I was just thinking, you never know,
you never know. Maybe it was miserable. I don't know.
I don't know. I started working on this kind of
(13:58):
in a fit, and it was in the middle of
the night as I am off and working in the
middle of the night because myserk Katiean rhythms are weird.
And then I was like, took a few hours in
and I was like, I should check with Tracy because
I'm not sure if you had mentioned it at one
point in the past. But I was like, I feel
like this was when she was thinking about doing yeah
and bless you. You were like, yeah, but I haven't
done it, so go ahead. I have this list of
(14:21):
potential topic episodes, and it's like down at the bottom
of a spreadsheet that we use for planning out what
we're doing. Yeah, like what we're recording when, And it's
wild to me that we're still using a spreadsheet. I
just I have not thought of a better way to
do it to make sure that we have enough episodes
(14:43):
recorded to account for upcoming time off. But down below
it is just this like huge list of things that
I've been thinking about doing. And Christiana was up near
the top of that list. So it's totally possible that
looking at that calendar repeatedly, it's I probably remembered it. Yeah, yeah,
because I keep my list on my phone because sometimes
(15:06):
I'll do stuff like if I am traveling and I
haven't started a show yet, I'll be like, what am
I thinking of? I have time on this flight I
could maybe start. And I don't always have my computer
with me on those on trips, right. I make notes
If I'm out about, out and about in the world
and I see something that seems interesting, a lot of
(15:28):
times I will put it into a notes app. The
other day, I'm not going to spoil what it was,
But the other day I was I was doing a
thing that made me think of something to maybe do
as an episode, and so I just emailed myself from
my phone. Oh, yeah, I did, with just that one
word in the subject line, like, I'll remember what this
means on Tuesday when I returned to the office. How
(15:51):
often do you not remember what that means? I am
more likely to lose track of things that are in
the notes app, especially if like a really long time
has passed between putting something in a note and then
like if I kind of go I am running short
of ideas? Do I have anything that I didn't transfer
(16:12):
over to the list from the notes app? And occasionally
I will run into stuff that I will think at
first was a topic idea for the show, and it
will turn out to be something absolutely unrelated to the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I've done that. You know. Sometimes you'll be like, I
(16:32):
say you, I mean that in the general not you.
Tracy will say sure, you know. You'll be like, oh, yeah,
I'll remember, of course. I remember. This is very important.
It's made an impact on me. Sally made an impression
on me. I'll never forget what was that. I don't
even know this name means. Yes, when I emailed myself
this one word subject line of an email with nothing else,
I was like, I'm am I going to remember what
this means? When I get back to work, we'll see yeah,
(16:56):
sometimes I do and other times no. But I have
to write everything down because otherwise some other shiny object
will supplant it and then I want to game here,
or I'll be like a kiddie. Look listen. Unrelated to history,
unrelated to anything. I'm gonna tell you an amazing thing
that happened to me at the airport. Great. So we
(17:17):
are coming off of the weekend when I had a
lot of people that came into town to spend time
with us, which was wonderful. And while I was waiting
for one of my friends at the arrival's lobby, I
had seen this woman walk by a couple times holding
a puppy, and then she looped around a third time
and she looked at me and said, will you hold
this puppy while I set up a little playpen for him?
(17:40):
And I was like, are you also going to offer
me a million dollars and a cake? Like? What, of course,
give me the puppy. It was the cutest little thing.
And it turned out she was meeting the puppies new
people and they had not gotten in yet and the
puppy needed to stretch. It's like like, I can't carry
(18:00):
him around and I don't want to leave him in
the carrier. He's very young, and I'm worried he needs
a potty pad, and so I want to set up
his thing, but I can't hold him and do it.
Can you hold him? Right? It's just like the bliss
the sweetest puppy. The puppy licked my face and I
almost there was a flash in my brain of if
you just run out the door right now, this is
your puppy. I don't need a puppy. I'm not equipped
(18:21):
for a puppy. But it was so sweet. It was
a great moment. Yeah, sometimes the universe gives you puppy kisses. Yeah,
just cuz. Yeah. We some friends and I went on
a hike over the weekend and we were going to
hike and then we were going to get in the
car and drive approximately two and a half hours to
get back to where we all live. And as we
(18:44):
were in the in the car setting off, we all
kind of realized we were more tired than we thought
we were gonna be u And so my friend who
was driving, was like, Okay, if I see a place
to buy coffee, we're stopping. Yeah, said great, and so
we stopped at this like little locally owned coffee Roasterree.
We went and we just got something to drink. We
(19:07):
came out and there was somebody with the cutest little
corgi outside of the coffee shop, and so we all
got to have surprise corgi time. It's the best surprise
puppy time. It's pretty magical. Now you're making me want
to go and buy a coffee at a cute new place.
(19:27):
They're probably not, but you never know. But there's a
place near us that has a really yummy banana latte
that I'm obsessed with, and now I have to go
get another one. Okay, delicious. They also have a lavender
latte with is it Holapano sugar on it? Oh it
sounds wild, but it's so perfect and delicious. I love it. Anyway,
(19:49):
I'm glad we got to take a look at this
topic this week. I'll loop it back to history because
we always talk in broad strokes, not we people in general.
You know, there's a presumption that we I know, how
the Civil War like ratcheted up to the point that
it became a declaration of war. But there are a
lot of moments like this that are important steps on
(20:09):
the way to it, and I think it's important to
look at them because we're all experiencing a lot of
moments that are important and could potentially be steps to
bigger things that are scary, and I just think it's
important to look at history. Thank you. Yeah. If this
is your weekend coming up, I hope it kicks butt.
(20:31):
I hope you have a great time. I hope you
have a lot of fun and that surprise puppies land
in your world. Who know on that maybe the delicious
coffee if that's your thing, Even if it's not your weekend,
maybe you could have surprise puppy time. I hope that
everybody is kind to one another. And if you don't
have time off this weekend, I really hope that you
at least sneak a little bit of time away for
(20:52):
yourself in whatever way recharges you best, whether that is
alone or with people you love. We will be right
back here tomorrow, last episode, and then on Monday we
will have something brand new. Stuff you missed in History
Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(21:13):
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows,
Stuff You Missed in History Class News
Hosts And Creators
Holly Frey
Tracy Wilson
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