January 26, 2024 • 25 mins
Holly talks about her infatuation with the show "Succession," and why Tracy might not like it. Tracy talks about a unique bridge designed by John Roebling.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production
of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and
I'm Tracy V.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Wilton. We talked about.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
This Takanovite movement this week, Yes, but we also were
going to talk about Succession, Yes, which makes me happy
to talk about because that show is stressful but very enjoyable.
And I will tell you how I started watching it.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I've watched none of it.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
This is one of those shows that I started watching
on a flight on my way out to California, Okay,
And I came to it very late, like pretty recently,
like in end of twenty twenty three, so I got
to mainline the.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Whole thing, which is kind of nice.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
But I watched two episodes on my way out there
because I didn't start it right away, and like, I
was obsessed the whole time we were in California. I
wouldn't stop talking about it, and I was almost excited
for a really good trip that I was having to
end so I could get back on a plane and.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Watch more episodes. That's how good it was.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And it's been great, and it had one of the
best final seasons of a show ever, like just satisfying
and delicious and painful and good, and I'm delighted it's
getting so many awards.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, I have watched none of it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
As I just said, we have an accidental theme for
the week of TV inspired episodes that Tracy's watched none of.
I will say this, I don't know if you will
like it or not for a very specific reason.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Is that reason? Throw up?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, I'm trying to think if there's ever any throw No,
but I will. I don't want to out you, so
stop me if you're like, don't, but I think you've
been pretty public. You don't like The Office, Yeah, because
like the embarrassment comedy in an office setting, which we
have all lived through, it's just uncomfortable. I have a
(02:02):
hard time with any TV show where part of the
setup is people at work having a bad and often
cringey time because of their terrible bosses. So imagine that
The Office is a really spectacularly written drama.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I don't know that you enjoy it. I think it
will stressed me out.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I think it might there are things in it that
you and I having worked for in a variety of
large corporations. Yeah, I mean I white knuckled some moments
for sure. Yeah, where I'm like, oh, I have been
there when like a boss wagh up the chain makes
a decision that they think is great and everyone under
them has to figure out how to execute it in
(02:48):
a and it's often painful and none of those people's
needs are ever considered. And there is a lot of
that on this show. Well, there are shows that are
set in workplaces and those workplaces have dysfunctions, but the
episodes often end with like a resolution. Nope, okay, So
(03:09):
just I'm just going to give an example. So I know,
people when we discuss things like this, people are often
compelled to write in with opinions, and so I'm just
going to give an example of some shows I have
liked that are also about dysfunctional workplaces.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Superstore.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I really enjoy fun Fun, so fun, you know, and
there's times in that show when like managers or bosses
are just making bad decisions, but you know, often there's
a resolution. Better Off Ted similarly the workplace and Better
Off Ted very dysfunctional, but the episodes felt sort of
(03:50):
resolved and kind of optimistic in some ways, sometimes in
a way that I found better when we you know,
our show is part of a company that's been through
just a whole series of acquisitions and mergers and spinoffs
and whatever. And during one of those I was promoted
into management and was given management training, and there were
(04:11):
scenes from the office that were used as like the
conversation starter for sort of how not. And I was like,
this is why I can't watch this show, Like I
just I want to fix those people's workplace so it's
not doing this to them anymore. Yeah, I mean, I
will say, you don't see a lot of like the
lower level employees on succession. You're seeing like the family
(04:35):
that runs this business, and they're messed up inner relations
and how they are all jockeying for power show, which
to me just leaves like the grossest taste in my mouth,
Like I don't have whatever ambition that is to run
any Like I don't. But it's very compelling and all
of the acting is spectacular, like there is no weak
(04:56):
link in that chain. And it's kind of interesting because
you get well, you start to get a little invested
in certain characters, thinking like, oh, this is the one
who has a little bit of a conscience and if
they can just nurture that seed and grow a tree
of actual good judgment and competanto that tree doesn't it
gets no, not gonna discount, so don't don't get attached an.
(05:17):
But it is spectacular television and I love it. So
that is yeah, why it inspired this to kud of
my Movement episode. But I also have such feelings about
this moment because, like I said at the end of
the episode, I have a weird I feel really bad
for Alexis ta Khanov in the midst of all of it. Yes,
(05:40):
I do not feel good about him selecting a fourteen
year old as his bride y so gross, But I
do think, like I said, he was a guy who
did not have a lot of education but was a
pretty good miner, and they were like, we can exploit that, sure,
and it just is like and then it was gone
and he didn't know how to cope with his life anymore.
(06:01):
And I, yeah, I think that's it's a little bit heartbreaking.
It's one of those things where you're like, if you
had not if none of that had happened, would he have,
you know, lived out his life with you have Dokia
and their kids and been poor and probably not having
(06:22):
a great and luxurious life, but you know, not the
extreme roller coaster that his life began, because right right,
I don't know. I hope his his surviving children. I
think his daughters are still alive. I hope they are
prosperous and faring very well, but I don't know. It's
not my business to look into their lives. No, so, uh, yeah,
(06:47):
I know. I wondered how you would perceive some of
this as interlocking into what we had talked about on
you know, the famine discussion, because you did the research
on the Holidaymoor episode. Yeah, did it conjure any thoughts
or like, were you like, huh, I hadn't thought about
(07:10):
how this led to this, lad to this or you
usually have a pretty good holistic.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Sense of how it all plays out.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Uh, this this is not the only effort, like Stalin's
Fidier plans, not the only effort to like let's just
totally revolutionize how things work, oh right, but then went
very badly and caused it famine or other strife and
huge death tolls. And so I feel like, now I
am really cynical any time I hear any proposal for
(07:39):
any kind of effort like that, And I'm like, yeah,
it's not going to go great. And with this one
in particular, so much of the Holladaymoor episode was focused
specifically on like farming and grain and food that I like,
I didn't spend a lot of time a lot of
time thinking about like industry and what happened after that
(08:01):
and all of that. So it's definitely all part of
the same the same.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Arc of.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
A lot of really radical plans that did not work well, right,
some of which on the surface seemed kind of compelling.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Like one of the things that I.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Was thinking about as we talked about this was like
all the praise for labor, Like I can absolutely understand
why a lot of folks who were in the labor
movement in the United States were like, yeah, this is
this is the way that like and like had a
lot of especially at the outset, like very pro pro
(08:43):
Soviet ideas, until it became clear that like a lot
of things were leading to famine and destruction and death.
Because when you're talking about the rights of workers and
praising the worker and like praising innovations that came from
the worker, I'm like, I can totally see how people
(09:03):
might just like eat that up when you're in a
movement that's like trying to fight for the basic rights.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Of the worker. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, So what I'm hearing is that in your big
sweeping changes are bad, is that you're never gonna get
on board with my internet time idea as long as
your internet time does not lead to mass famine and
death when liquidating a class of dear lord, no people,
(09:34):
no one's ever going to I hope people know that.
While I do love the concept of internet time, I
am joking.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I don't. I'm not really trying to start a movement,
but man, it would be so cool.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Let's just all take a week off and then we
just start the clocks over again, because that would work.
That's no problem. I feel like I'm exactly the person. See,
this is exactly why I should never have a position
of extreme power, because nobody who's like kind of a creative,
dreamy kind of person should do that. Because then I
say that and it sounds like a great idea to me,
(10:05):
and there are a bunch of other people that go,
how are we going to do this?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Shoot, didn't even think this through. That's how it happens.
That happens.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I'm having a flashback to the time when we were
owned by a previous company and they changed all of
our email overnight and didn't tell anybody. Oh yeah, yeah,
people thought they were fired.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, because none of us could log in.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, went to log in to their email over the weekend,
their account did not exist anymore.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
They were like, I still work here. Yeah. It was
a wild time. Yeah, wild time.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So the time I got in trouble for yelling at
some people for having not communicated that. You got in
trouble for that. I don't know if I got in
trouble for that. Getting in trouble is probably too strong
a word. I sent a very pointed email, which was
maybe too pointed, and the response I got to it
(11:03):
was not was not like, oh, you are so right.
I absolutely should go apologize to everyone who thought they
were fired.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It was so many years ago.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a previous iteration of our thing.
It was just a wild time. Every company, by the way,
has been through that at some point in time. Oh,
I mean I can't anytime I talk to friends who
work for some big corporation or even a small corporation.
Small companies have problems too, for sure. It's like they
all have some absurd story of like, and then the
(11:35):
decision was made to.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Give us all a baby goat for Fridays.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Like there's always some wacky thing that someone thinks is
going to be a big innovation and of course turns
into an absolute stressful train wreck. I don't know the
solution here, because I do think like, sometimes you have
to shake stuff up, but it's hard to do that
and maintain like the through line that people need to
get their jobs done.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, it's tricky, tricky anyway, he's here our hippie talks.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I'm big.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yes, I think part of my email had said I'm
probably gonna get in trouble for sending this email, and
the response included, if you have to put in the
sentence I'm probably going to get in trouble for sending
this email.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Don't send the email. And I was like, we're not
gonna agree on this. Maww.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We also talked about Emily Warren Roebling this week and
our accidental theme of stuff inspired by TV that I
didn't watch.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I have not watched this show.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, in this case, neither of us has watched the
show The Gilded Age. I was too busy getting up
early so that I could watch an episode of Succession
before I.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
God, So it's a show I may watch sometime. I
just I have not watched it. So while while I
was doing research on this episode, I listened to an
episode of the podcast Bowery Boys.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Oh Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Podcast Yeah about New York history is sort of like
a background knowledge listening for me. This is an episode
that they put out that was about all three of
the Roblings, so John and Washington and Emily Warren Robling.
And near the beginning of it, they were talking about
favorite bridges designed by John Robling, and one of them
(13:39):
says that he particularly likes this one that is over
the Delaware River near the New York Pennsylvania border, not
far from Port Jervis, And I was like, hang on,
I know exactly where you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Let me look.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And every fall, a bunch of friends of mine we
go in together. When I say a bunch, I mean
like thirty of us, and we rent what is effectively
a mansion that has sleeping space for thirty people, which
you can do when you have thirty people all pitching
(14:15):
in on the cost. And as we drive out to
this place, there is this weird one lane bridge that
we drive over, and it has always been weird to me.
Number one, that it is a one lane bridge. Traffic
goes on it in both directions, so you gotta yield
(14:38):
if if it's coming from the other way. But then
also just the structure of it seemed odd to me.
I was like, this bridge, it's weird to have a
one lane bridge.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You don't see many of those.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I know they exist, especially more rural areas, but like,
you don't see that many of them, and just the
building of it was weird. Turns out, as I learned
from this episode of The Bowery Boys, that this was
originally an aqueduct that John Roebling designed, and that coal
barge is coal barges would be floated across it, and
I was like, well, that answers why this bridge has
(15:12):
also always seemed so weirdly designed to me. So then
of course I immediately got into the group chat with
the friends that, you know, some of the friends that
I go on this trip with every year, and I
was like, hey, you know that one way bridge that
we are always driving over, here's why it's so weird.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So that was great.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Some things came up in the research for this that
didn't make it into the episode. One is that there
was a report in one of the newspapers in eighteen
ninety from Trenton, New Jersey, and I'm just going to
read it quote State Dairy Inspector maguire is investigating the
(15:51):
cause of the sickness which attacked two or three dozen
of the guests at a barn party given by Missus
Washington a Roebling on Friday evening.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
None of these cases so far have been fatal. Bump bump.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I didn't find any other anything about this, but I was,
you know, writing just a whole story in my head
about you know that Emily the party that Emily were
in robling Through where everybody got food poisoning. Yeah, that's
what I'm assuming happened. There saw contradictory accounts of whether
(16:26):
she had resigned from her leadership position at the Daughters
of the American Revolution because of her health or whether
she was voted out in something that sounded like it
was full of drama.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I mean, I could not confirm which of those was
say it does.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I was like, uh, that sounds like maybe a good
cover story, but I don't actually know, right, I mean
I am now probably writing historical fan fiction, but like,
given the nature of that, she wrote near the end
of her life about her son even not believing she
(17:06):
was capable of what she was capable of and stuff.
Was she getting real frustrated with people towards the end
and maybe just like tired of dealing with the things
she had been I mean, she was so accomplished in
so many ways. Am I particularly marvel at how much
(17:28):
education she continued to go after, you know, in her
very adult life. And so I could see someone like
that eventually hitting that tipping point of like, but you
are treating me like a delicate flower. I have all
(17:49):
the skills and knowledge and maybe that becoming a greeting
point in social situation that makes sense, or maybe characteristically
some other members of that group were like, what did
she say about foreign husbands? I don't know, Yeah, I
didn't love that at all. No, So we said that
(18:22):
there's a ton of correspondence between her and Washington that
survives in a collection, but like, it's not they haven't
been published for everyone to read, right right, There are
a couple of quotes from them that have circulated in
a lot of articles. One is actually not between Washington
(18:43):
and Emily, but was a letter that Washington wrote to
his sister right after they met. And I don't remember
the exact wording, but he was talking about having met
this woman and he said something like, so, yes, someone
has finally captured your brother Washi's heart. And the fact
that he were for her to himself is Washy. I
(19:07):
found really charming. And I'm like, I'm guessing this is
probably like the family nickname for him.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
The other was and I think.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
This might have also been a letter from him to
his sister, not a letter it was. This was also
to his sister, so he wrote he described her as
quote a most entertaining talker, which is a mighty good thing.
You knew, I myself, being so stupid, I loved that. Also,
(19:36):
you had remarked on that address and sort of the
moment where we took a took a little sponsor break,
you had had commented on the address at the alumni dinner.
I can't remember the exact wording of what you said,
but it was something to the effect of, man, that
guy could really write a speech. Yeah, I mean, like
(19:59):
we we were both really quite moved by it. During recording,
we were both very emotionally overcome by this very flowery,
beautiful description, you know, which has some elements today that
come across, as I would say, a little maybe patronizing,
but like still very very beautifully written.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So Rother W.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Raymond, who gave that address, was a mining engineer. He
was not a graduate of renssel Or Polytechnic Institute, And
as I understand it, the reason he was giving the
address at this alumni dinner was specifically.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Because he wrote a good speech.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
He had a reputation as a speech maker, so like
he gave this speech for that reason, not because he
was affiliated with the with the institute. Well, he gave
a good speech. That's a really good speech. As you said,
some of it obviously patronizing, which is part and partial
(20:59):
of its time, right, but it's also.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Really like.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
In terms of a narrative, it's just beautifully structured. Yeah,
I love it. Do you dream that someone would write
such a speech about me?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
My goodness. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
There are a lot of sort of more recent write
ups that are really focused on Emily in the ground.
She broke into a space that women were not part of, right, Yes,
super important. I think it's also really important to talk
about disability and access and accommodations and things like that,
because still today there are a lot of people who
(21:41):
are skilled in whatever field, but like like an office
is not accessible to them, right And in a lot
of cases like the default in the United States, while
we do have things like the Americans with Disabilities Act,
which is a minimum, not the end, I'll be all
of everything, right, Like, there are still places, plenty of
(22:06):
plenty of places where sort of the go to responses, well,
like that person obviously can't do that job, instead of
how can we make this job accessible to that person
who has this expertise? Right, I mean I get frustrated
to I'm sure you have run across this where there
(22:30):
are discussions about situations like that, and they're always there's
always some person who thinks they are telling it like
it is, and they're like, why should jobs have to
make special dispensations so this one person can get blah
blah blah blah blah. And I get I rate, which
(22:52):
I know you do as well, and it's like, no,
the point is that everyone could do that job.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Job.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, it's not just for this one person. In this case,
there might be one person you can easily point to
and say they are the beneficiary of the work that
we're immediately doing to like make this place accessible. But
that will mean that going forward, it is accessible to everyone.
That is the point, Like I just it makes me
rabid angry.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, my mom.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
When my mom went back to work after my brother
and I were little, because she stayed home with us
for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
After some years after my brother was born, when she went.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Back to work, she spent the entire rest of her
career working with disabled people. So she taught disabled adults,
she worked in a couple of different roles in long
term care for kids, disabled kids who had like really
really high support needs. And then she herself started to
become disabled and the place she was working, which was
(23:56):
literally residential care for disabled children and did not want
to accommodate my mom's disability. That is the wildest Uh yeah, yeah,
so this is not a new thing. It's uh progress
has been made, uh since the days of Emily Warren
(24:18):
Rubling and her husband, but not to the point that
we need to in my opinion. Yeah, Okurt, So I
think that's where we can leave it today. Fingers crossed
for better futures.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah yeah, So Happy Friday.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Whatever's happening this weekend for you, I hope it goes well.
We will be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow. We
will have something brand new on Monday. Stuff you Missed
in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
(24:57):
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production
of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and
I'm Tracy V.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Wilton. We talked about.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
This Takanovite movement this week, Yes, but we also were
going to talk about Succession, Yes, which makes me happy
to talk about because that show is stressful but very enjoyable.
And I will tell you how I started watching it.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I've watched none of it.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
This is one of those shows that I started watching
on a flight on my way out to California, Okay,
And I came to it very late, like pretty recently,
like in end of twenty twenty three, so I got
to mainline the.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Whole thing, which is kind of nice.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
But I watched two episodes on my way out there
because I didn't start it right away, and like, I
was obsessed the whole time we were in California. I
wouldn't stop talking about it, and I was almost excited
for a really good trip that I was having to
end so I could get back on a plane and.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Watch more episodes. That's how good it was.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And it's been great, and it had one of the
best final seasons of a show ever, like just satisfying
and delicious and painful and good, and I'm delighted it's
getting so many awards.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, I have watched none of it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
As I just said, we have an accidental theme for
the week of TV inspired episodes that Tracy's watched none of.
I will say this, I don't know if you will
like it or not for a very specific reason.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Is that reason? Throw up?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
No?
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Okay, I'm trying to think if there's ever any throw No,
but I will. I don't want to out you, so
stop me if you're like, don't, but I think you've
been pretty public. You don't like The Office, Yeah, because
like the embarrassment comedy in an office setting, which we
have all lived through, it's just uncomfortable. I have a
(02:02):
hard time with any TV show where part of the
setup is people at work having a bad and often
cringey time because of their terrible bosses. So imagine that
The Office is a really spectacularly written drama.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I don't know that you enjoy it. I think it
will stressed me out.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I think it might there are things in it that
you and I having worked for in a variety of
large corporations. Yeah, I mean I white knuckled some moments
for sure. Yeah, where I'm like, oh, I have been
there when like a boss wagh up the chain makes
a decision that they think is great and everyone under
them has to figure out how to execute it in
(02:48):
a and it's often painful and none of those people's
needs are ever considered. And there is a lot of
that on this show. Well, there are shows that are
set in workplaces and those workplaces have dysfunctions, but the
episodes often end with like a resolution. Nope, okay, So
(03:09):
just I'm just going to give an example. So I know,
people when we discuss things like this, people are often
compelled to write in with opinions, and so I'm just
going to give an example of some shows I have
liked that are also about dysfunctional workplaces.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Superstore.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I really enjoy fun Fun, so fun, you know, and
there's times in that show when like managers or bosses
are just making bad decisions, but you know, often there's
a resolution. Better Off Ted similarly the workplace and Better
Off Ted very dysfunctional, but the episodes felt sort of
(03:50):
resolved and kind of optimistic in some ways, sometimes in
a way that I found better when we you know,
our show is part of a company that's been through
just a whole series of acquisitions and mergers and spinoffs
and whatever. And during one of those I was promoted
into management and was given management training, and there were
(04:11):
scenes from the office that were used as like the
conversation starter for sort of how not. And I was like,
this is why I can't watch this show, Like I
just I want to fix those people's workplace so it's
not doing this to them anymore. Yeah, I mean, I
will say, you don't see a lot of like the
lower level employees on succession. You're seeing like the family
(04:35):
that runs this business, and they're messed up inner relations
and how they are all jockeying for power show, which
to me just leaves like the grossest taste in my mouth,
Like I don't have whatever ambition that is to run
any Like I don't. But it's very compelling and all
of the acting is spectacular, like there is no weak
(04:56):
link in that chain. And it's kind of interesting because
you get well, you start to get a little invested
in certain characters, thinking like, oh, this is the one
who has a little bit of a conscience and if
they can just nurture that seed and grow a tree
of actual good judgment and competanto that tree doesn't it
gets no, not gonna discount, so don't don't get attached an.
(05:17):
But it is spectacular television and I love it. So
that is yeah, why it inspired this to kud of
my Movement episode. But I also have such feelings about
this moment because, like I said at the end of
the episode, I have a weird I feel really bad
for Alexis ta Khanov in the midst of all of it. Yes,
(05:40):
I do not feel good about him selecting a fourteen
year old as his bride y so gross, But I
do think, like I said, he was a guy who
did not have a lot of education but was a
pretty good miner, and they were like, we can exploit that, sure,
and it just is like and then it was gone
and he didn't know how to cope with his life anymore.
(06:01):
And I, yeah, I think that's it's a little bit heartbreaking.
It's one of those things where you're like, if you
had not if none of that had happened, would he have,
you know, lived out his life with you have Dokia
and their kids and been poor and probably not having
(06:22):
a great and luxurious life, but you know, not the
extreme roller coaster that his life began, because right right,
I don't know. I hope his his surviving children. I
think his daughters are still alive. I hope they are
prosperous and faring very well, but I don't know. It's
not my business to look into their lives. No, so, uh, yeah,
(06:47):
I know. I wondered how you would perceive some of
this as interlocking into what we had talked about on
you know, the famine discussion, because you did the research
on the Holidaymoor episode. Yeah, did it conjure any thoughts
or like, were you like, huh, I hadn't thought about
(07:10):
how this led to this, lad to this or you
usually have a pretty good holistic.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Sense of how it all plays out.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Uh, this this is not the only effort, like Stalin's
Fidier plans, not the only effort to like let's just
totally revolutionize how things work, oh right, but then went
very badly and caused it famine or other strife and
huge death tolls. And so I feel like, now I
am really cynical any time I hear any proposal for
(07:39):
any kind of effort like that, And I'm like, yeah,
it's not going to go great. And with this one
in particular, so much of the Holladaymoor episode was focused
specifically on like farming and grain and food that I like,
I didn't spend a lot of time a lot of
time thinking about like industry and what happened after that
(08:01):
and all of that. So it's definitely all part of
the same the same.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Arc of.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
A lot of really radical plans that did not work well, right,
some of which on the surface seemed kind of compelling.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Like one of the things that I.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Was thinking about as we talked about this was like
all the praise for labor, Like I can absolutely understand
why a lot of folks who were in the labor
movement in the United States were like, yeah, this is
this is the way that like and like had a
lot of especially at the outset, like very pro pro
(08:43):
Soviet ideas, until it became clear that like a lot
of things were leading to famine and destruction and death.
Because when you're talking about the rights of workers and
praising the worker and like praising innovations that came from
the worker, I'm like, I can totally see how people
(09:03):
might just like eat that up when you're in a
movement that's like trying to fight for the basic rights.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Of the worker. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, So what I'm hearing is that in your big
sweeping changes are bad, is that you're never gonna get
on board with my internet time idea as long as
your internet time does not lead to mass famine and
death when liquidating a class of dear lord, no people,
(09:34):
no one's ever going to I hope people know that.
While I do love the concept of internet time, I
am joking.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I don't. I'm not really trying to start a movement,
but man, it would be so cool.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Let's just all take a week off and then we
just start the clocks over again, because that would work.
That's no problem. I feel like I'm exactly the person. See,
this is exactly why I should never have a position
of extreme power, because nobody who's like kind of a creative,
dreamy kind of person should do that. Because then I
say that and it sounds like a great idea to me,
(10:05):
and there are a bunch of other people that go,
how are we going to do this?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Shoot, didn't even think this through. That's how it happens.
That happens.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I'm having a flashback to the time when we were
owned by a previous company and they changed all of
our email overnight and didn't tell anybody. Oh yeah, yeah,
people thought they were fired.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Yeah, because none of us could log in.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, went to log in to their email over the weekend,
their account did not exist anymore.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
They were like, I still work here. Yeah. It was
a wild time. Yeah, wild time.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So the time I got in trouble for yelling at
some people for having not communicated that. You got in
trouble for that. I don't know if I got in
trouble for that. Getting in trouble is probably too strong
a word. I sent a very pointed email, which was
maybe too pointed, and the response I got to it
(11:03):
was not was not like, oh, you are so right.
I absolutely should go apologize to everyone who thought they
were fired.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
It was so many years ago.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a previous iteration of our thing.
It was just a wild time. Every company, by the way,
has been through that at some point in time. Oh,
I mean I can't anytime I talk to friends who
work for some big corporation or even a small corporation.
Small companies have problems too, for sure. It's like they
all have some absurd story of like, and then the
(11:35):
decision was made to.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Give us all a baby goat for Fridays.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Like there's always some wacky thing that someone thinks is
going to be a big innovation and of course turns
into an absolute stressful train wreck. I don't know the
solution here, because I do think like, sometimes you have
to shake stuff up, but it's hard to do that
and maintain like the through line that people need to
get their jobs done.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, it's tricky, tricky anyway, he's here our hippie talks.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I'm big.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yes, I think part of my email had said I'm
probably gonna get in trouble for sending this email, and
the response included, if you have to put in the
sentence I'm probably going to get in trouble for sending
this email.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Don't send the email. And I was like, we're not
gonna agree on this. Maww.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
We also talked about Emily Warren Roebling this week and
our accidental theme of stuff inspired by TV that I
didn't watch.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
I have not watched this show.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, in this case, neither of us has watched the
show The Gilded Age. I was too busy getting up
early so that I could watch an episode of Succession
before I.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
God, So it's a show I may watch sometime. I
just I have not watched it. So while while I
was doing research on this episode, I listened to an
episode of the podcast Bowery Boys.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Oh Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Podcast Yeah about New York history is sort of like
a background knowledge listening for me. This is an episode
that they put out that was about all three of
the Roblings, so John and Washington and Emily Warren Robling.
And near the beginning of it, they were talking about
favorite bridges designed by John Robling, and one of them
(13:39):
says that he particularly likes this one that is over
the Delaware River near the New York Pennsylvania border, not
far from Port Jervis, And I was like, hang on,
I know exactly where you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Let me look.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And every fall, a bunch of friends of mine we
go in together. When I say a bunch, I mean
like thirty of us, and we rent what is effectively
a mansion that has sleeping space for thirty people, which
you can do when you have thirty people all pitching
(14:15):
in on the cost. And as we drive out to
this place, there is this weird one lane bridge that
we drive over, and it has always been weird to me.
Number one, that it is a one lane bridge. Traffic
goes on it in both directions, so you gotta yield
(14:38):
if if it's coming from the other way. But then
also just the structure of it seemed odd to me.
I was like, this bridge, it's weird to have a
one lane bridge.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
You don't see many of those.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
I know they exist, especially more rural areas, but like,
you don't see that many of them, and just the
building of it was weird. Turns out, as I learned
from this episode of The Bowery Boys, that this was
originally an aqueduct that John Roebling designed, and that coal
barge is coal barges would be floated across it, and
I was like, well, that answers why this bridge has
(15:12):
also always seemed so weirdly designed to me. So then
of course I immediately got into the group chat with
the friends that, you know, some of the friends that
I go on this trip with every year, and I
was like, hey, you know that one way bridge that
we are always driving over, here's why it's so weird.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So that was great.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Some things came up in the research for this that
didn't make it into the episode. One is that there
was a report in one of the newspapers in eighteen
ninety from Trenton, New Jersey, and I'm just going to
read it quote State Dairy Inspector maguire is investigating the
(15:51):
cause of the sickness which attacked two or three dozen
of the guests at a barn party given by Missus
Washington a Roebling on Friday evening.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
None of these cases so far have been fatal. Bump bump.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
I didn't find any other anything about this, but I was,
you know, writing just a whole story in my head
about you know that Emily the party that Emily were
in robling Through where everybody got food poisoning. Yeah, that's
what I'm assuming happened. There saw contradictory accounts of whether
(16:26):
she had resigned from her leadership position at the Daughters
of the American Revolution because of her health or whether
she was voted out in something that sounded like it
was full of drama.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I mean, I could not confirm which of those was
say it does.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
I was like, uh, that sounds like maybe a good
cover story, but I don't actually know, right, I mean
I am now probably writing historical fan fiction, but like,
given the nature of that, she wrote near the end
of her life about her son even not believing she
(17:06):
was capable of what she was capable of and stuff.
Was she getting real frustrated with people towards the end
and maybe just like tired of dealing with the things
she had been I mean, she was so accomplished in
so many ways. Am I particularly marvel at how much
(17:28):
education she continued to go after, you know, in her
very adult life. And so I could see someone like
that eventually hitting that tipping point of like, but you
are treating me like a delicate flower. I have all
(17:49):
the skills and knowledge and maybe that becoming a greeting
point in social situation that makes sense, or maybe characteristically
some other members of that group were like, what did
she say about foreign husbands? I don't know, Yeah, I
didn't love that at all. No, So we said that
(18:22):
there's a ton of correspondence between her and Washington that
survives in a collection, but like, it's not they haven't
been published for everyone to read, right right, There are
a couple of quotes from them that have circulated in
a lot of articles. One is actually not between Washington
(18:43):
and Emily, but was a letter that Washington wrote to
his sister right after they met. And I don't remember
the exact wording, but he was talking about having met
this woman and he said something like, so, yes, someone
has finally captured your brother Washi's heart. And the fact
that he were for her to himself is Washy. I
(19:07):
found really charming. And I'm like, I'm guessing this is
probably like the family nickname for him.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
The other was and I think.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
This might have also been a letter from him to
his sister, not a letter it was. This was also
to his sister, so he wrote he described her as
quote a most entertaining talker, which is a mighty good thing.
You knew, I myself, being so stupid, I loved that. Also,
(19:36):
you had remarked on that address and sort of the
moment where we took a took a little sponsor break,
you had had commented on the address at the alumni dinner.
I can't remember the exact wording of what you said,
but it was something to the effect of, man, that
guy could really write a speech. Yeah, I mean, like
(19:59):
we we were both really quite moved by it. During recording,
we were both very emotionally overcome by this very flowery,
beautiful description, you know, which has some elements today that
come across, as I would say, a little maybe patronizing,
but like still very very beautifully written.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
So Rother W.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Raymond, who gave that address, was a mining engineer. He
was not a graduate of renssel Or Polytechnic Institute, And
as I understand it, the reason he was giving the
address at this alumni dinner was specifically.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Because he wrote a good speech.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
He had a reputation as a speech maker, so like
he gave this speech for that reason, not because he
was affiliated with the with the institute. Well, he gave
a good speech. That's a really good speech. As you said,
some of it obviously patronizing, which is part and partial
(20:59):
of its time, right, but it's also.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Really like.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
In terms of a narrative, it's just beautifully structured. Yeah,
I love it. Do you dream that someone would write
such a speech about me?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
My goodness. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
There are a lot of sort of more recent write
ups that are really focused on Emily in the ground.
She broke into a space that women were not part of, right, Yes,
super important. I think it's also really important to talk
about disability and access and accommodations and things like that,
because still today there are a lot of people who
(21:41):
are skilled in whatever field, but like like an office
is not accessible to them, right And in a lot
of cases like the default in the United States, while
we do have things like the Americans with Disabilities Act,
which is a minimum, not the end, I'll be all
of everything, right, Like, there are still places, plenty of
(22:06):
plenty of places where sort of the go to responses, well,
like that person obviously can't do that job, instead of
how can we make this job accessible to that person
who has this expertise? Right, I mean I get frustrated
to I'm sure you have run across this where there
(22:30):
are discussions about situations like that, and they're always there's
always some person who thinks they are telling it like
it is, and they're like, why should jobs have to
make special dispensations so this one person can get blah
blah blah blah blah. And I get I rate, which
(22:52):
I know you do as well, and it's like, no,
the point is that everyone could do that job.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Job.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yeah, it's not just for this one person. In this case,
there might be one person you can easily point to
and say they are the beneficiary of the work that
we're immediately doing to like make this place accessible. But
that will mean that going forward, it is accessible to everyone.
That is the point, Like I just it makes me
rabid angry.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, my mom.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
When my mom went back to work after my brother
and I were little, because she stayed home with us
for a little bit.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
After some years after my brother was born, when she went.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Back to work, she spent the entire rest of her
career working with disabled people. So she taught disabled adults,
she worked in a couple of different roles in long
term care for kids, disabled kids who had like really
really high support needs. And then she herself started to
become disabled and the place she was working, which was
(23:56):
literally residential care for disabled children and did not want
to accommodate my mom's disability. That is the wildest Uh yeah, yeah,
so this is not a new thing. It's uh progress
has been made, uh since the days of Emily Warren
(24:18):
Rubling and her husband, but not to the point that
we need to in my opinion. Yeah, Okurt, So I
think that's where we can leave it today. Fingers crossed
for better futures.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yeah yeah, So Happy Friday.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Whatever's happening this weekend for you, I hope it goes well.
We will be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow. We
will have something brand new on Monday. Stuff you Missed
in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more
(24:57):
podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Stuff You Missed in History Class News
Hosts And Creators
Tracy V. Wilson
Holly Frey
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