August 18, 2020 • 47 mins
There’s a movement afoot that says we should all stop thinking about our weight and just enjoy food. No, it doesn’t help you lose weight…No, it’s not a diet…No, - just listen to the episode, okay?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody. I don't know if you've heard, but we
have a book coming out finally, finally, after all these years.
It's great, it's fun. You're gonna love it. It's called
Stuff You Should Know Colon, an incomplete compendium of mostly
interesting things. Ye, and it's twenty six jam packed chapters
that we wrote with another guy named Nils Parker, who's
(00:22):
amazing and is illustrated amazingly by our illustrator Carl Manardo.
And it's just an all around joy to pick up
and read. Even though we haven't physically held in our
hands yet, it's like we have Chuck in our dreams
so far. I can't wait to actually see and hold
this thing and smell it. And so should you, so
pre order now. It means a lot to us. The
(00:43):
support is a very big deal, So pre order anywhere
books are sold. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a
production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles Chizy,
(01:04):
Chuck Bryant, and this is Stuff You Should Know. Um, yeah,
that's all I gotta say. I think this is super interesting,
this anti diet movement episode MM hmm, I do too.
I'd heard a little bit about it. Every once in
a while, we'll say something and one of our listeners
will write in and be like, Hey, you guys shouldn't
(01:25):
be saying that, or you guys shouldn't be talking about,
you know, trying to lose weight or something, because it
shames other people indirectly, Like you should check out the
anti dieting movement. So all of you people who have
ever written in with the suggestion for that, this one's
for you, because I believe all of you are the
ones who who brought that to my awareness. Yeah. So
(01:48):
the anti diet movement is a response to, Um, there's
a lot of pieces to it, and we're gonna we're
gonna go over all of them. But it's a response
to diet culture in the world old especially in the
United States, and a response that basically says, we don't
think diet culture is healthy. Uh, literally healthy for your
(02:11):
physical health and also not healthy for your mental health
and for the well being of an individual. Uh, we
don't think diets work. We think we have proof and
studies that show diets don't work, and we think that
there's a better way, which is to accept food as
something that is to be enjoyed and accept your body.
(02:32):
And there's a lot more to it than that, but
that's sort of the broadest stroke in society goes what
I tell you, man, it's when you look at how
we are, you know, I don't want to maybe brainwashed
is too strong of a word, but how humans and
Americans are brainwashed into thinking there is only one way
(02:56):
right to live um and only one way to of
that way right. It's pretty interesting and hard to undo.
And there's and we're all of us, every single one
of us in America, and I would guess and most
of the West as well, are subjects to kind of
this two pronged attack about weight. One is the idea
(03:17):
that you just don't look as good when you're overweight,
and then to the idea that you're not as healthy
when you're overweight. And this anti dieting movement rejects both
of those. They they so their whole thing is. And
it's really it's worth kind of restating here because it's
tough to wrap your head around because of the way
(03:38):
that we've all been brought up for so long that
the anti dieting movement isn't like no, no, no. All
you have to do is cut meat out and you're fine.
You can do everything else. There's nothing like that. It's
not only not only don't diet, it's throw away. You're
dieting books, stop following dieting blogs, reject the standard of
(03:59):
beauty at like the the small kind of vaguely underweight
um standard that we have in the West. Um. And
stop listening to people, including your own inner voice. That's
that that makes you feel ashamed when you crave or
eat certain foods. That all foods are on the table.
There's no such thing as bad foods. And you can
(04:21):
just stop thinking about weight and food. Those two things
can be decoupled for the rest of your life. You're free,
basically is whether say you're free, Go fly, little bird,
go live your life, stop thinking about being overweight. Yeah,
And it all comes down and this might it's just
some people may just think this is the craziest thing
they've ever heard in their life. Um. But what they're
(04:45):
saying is is something called that you should embrace, something
called intuitive eating. And this came around and the sometime
in the nineties there was a book written by Evelyn
Tree Bowl and uh At Lease resh called intuitive eating
colon a revolutionary program that works. And this is and
(05:08):
this was basically the idea that we've been looking at.
This cycle happened for years of restricting your food, getting
on a diet, losing weight, gaining it back, sometimes gaining
back even more weight, doing this over and over and over.
It's not working. It's not good for people, it's not effective. Uh,
(05:29):
it doesn't make you healthier to go through this weight
loss and weight gain cycle. And you need to stop
listening to these external controls, whether it's the media or
your parents, or your spouse or partner or yourself. And
you need to start listening to your body and eating
(05:50):
what your body says to eat. And here's the important part,
stop eating when your body says it's full, right, And
so they kind of put all these things. So intuitive
eating is kind of the central focus of anti dieting,
but it's not one and the same. Anti dieting is
a larger umbrella movement is the best word for it.
(06:12):
That includes anti or intuitive eating, but it also includes
a kind of a militant opposition to um fat shaming
of any sort of any kind, and also kind of
believes not even kind of overtly believes that any weight
loss goal is negative, that it's it comes from that
(06:35):
being brainwashed culturally. So we'll talk more about that anti
dieting movement in general, but like we should really explain
the intense principles of intuitive eating that UM that triple
and Rush put together, and we should say it one
other thing too, This is not a diet So so
when you're hearing these things, don't think and then you
(06:56):
do this and you lose weight. Now that's out the window.
That has nothing to do with this. This is about
your relationship to food. And then number two, these people
are no slouches. UM Trible and Rush are both registered dietitians,
which are UM certified regulated UM professionals who know what
they're talking about with with nutrition and intuitive eating is
(07:19):
widely almost universally embraced by dietitians and nutritionists as well.
So you just kind of keep that mindset when you're
hearing these ten principles of intuitive eating. Yeah, and before
we actually listen to ten, it's worth pointing out that
part of intuitive eating is UH. Part of the foundation
is the fact that they say, hey, listen, look at
(07:41):
your kids when you're born and your little baby, and
you don't know anything. You're just a dumb baby, and
you grow up to be a dumb little toddler. Your
body tells you when you're hungry, and you eat, and
your body tells you when you're full, and you stop eating.
And I see that with my five year old. I'm
not hungry anymore, all right, stop eating. And it's that easy.
(08:03):
And the argument for intuitive eating is that, uh, and
you know, partially the anti diet movement is somewhere along
the way, we lose that as adults or as you know,
teenagers even because of this onslaught from the media and
from everybody talking about your weight, your weight, your weight,
and your health and you've got to be skinny, and
we lose these we literally lose these biological triggers that
(08:27):
say when you're hungry, stop when you're full. Those just
go away. And the idea is to kind of retrain
your mind and body to get back to that state
you were when you were a dumb baby, right, Yeah,
because I don't even know if it goes away. We're
just trained by diet culture to ignore them. It goes away. Yeah,
I know, I don't know if I agree with that. One,
(08:49):
but I but the but the key is is that
that it's being one way or another. We don't have
that intuitively anymore because diet culture is come in and
replace that with no pay attention to the calories or
ignore the fact that you're hungry because you're you're limiting
portion size and they're saying, ignore that bad advice. Right,
(09:11):
So here are the principles, the ten principles. The first
one is we already kind of covered it to reject
the diet mentality. Basically, it's just saying that you know,
these these diets, um don't deliver lasting results, and you've
got to remind yourself of that, right. Um. There's also
the next one is honor your hunger. It's so sweet
(09:31):
they have honor and here a couple of times, but
they're basically saying that when you are hungry, you should eat,
and you should pay attention to not only um, what
your bodies like the fact that your body is telling
you're hungry, so so go ahead and eat, but um,
what your body is asking for too. Now your body,
it's important to say, is what they're saying to honor
(09:54):
not you're sad, so go eat the ice cream, right,
which comes later. That comes later. Yeah, what else, Chuck,
there's make peace with food. Yeah, that is basically unconditional
permission to eat um. You know, we're tempted by the
twinkies and the ice cream and stuff like that. And
they're saying, give yourself that permission, because that's sort of
(10:17):
one of the keys is once you rewire your brain,
you're not gonna want the twinkie for lunch because it
doesn't have that allure and it's probably not gonna make
you feel great physically. And maybe you need to do
that a couple of times to realize, you, boy, I
don't feel so hot after eating ice cream for lunch
and only ice cream for lunch exactly. Yeah. So so
(10:37):
there's they're saying, just like there's there's if you if
you are on the couch and you're like, uh, those
oreo sound good? Should I should not? They're saying, get
rid of this. Should I should not? If you feel
hungry and those oreo sound good, you just get up
and you eat the oreos without a second thought. That's
the point of making peace with food, giving yourself permission
to live like that, That's right. The next one, number
(11:00):
four is challenged the food police, which can be everything
from your friends and family or partners to your own
and I think many times your own inner voice probably
more than any anything, that inner voice UM. And one
of the things that the food police too, is um,
they can come about in ways that are much less
(11:22):
direct than than calling them the food police. Sounds like
food police, sounds like somebody who's going to tell you
to put down that twinkie because you, you know, a
moment on the lips of a lifetime on the hips.
People who say stuff like that to other people, that's
definitely food police kind of stuff. But that that same
kind of guilt or shame or reinforcement of feeling guilty
(11:45):
or ashamed about food can come from people who are
talking about their own dislike for their body or their weight,
because um, it makes you kind of sympathetically trigger and
examine your own, especially if that person is maybe um,
weighs less than you do, because if they're worried about
their weight, well geez, that means you should really be
(12:06):
worried about your weight. Or they're worried about eating that
the grilled chicken on their Caesar salad and you're tucking
into a chili dog, should you really be eating this?
So the food police in this sense can kind of
come from a number of different directions. Defund the food police.
Ye uh. The next one is respect your fullness. And
this is a big part of it because they're saying
(12:28):
eat when you're hungry, but they're not saying eat till
you feel sick. They're saying you need to listen to
your body at all times when it's hungry, feed it
and then maybe eat a little slower, maybe pause during
that snack or during that meal and say, all right, body,
all am I hungry now? Or my board or stressed out?
(12:49):
And is that why I'm continuing to eat? Like check
in with yourself in the middle of a meal to see, body,
do you need fuel right now? Or you know it's
some and going on at work and this twinkie makes
it a whole lot better. And so that kind of
um reveals like one of the big principles of intuitive eating,
(13:10):
which is mindfulness, Like you're not supposed to just kind
of zone out and watch you know, TV while you're
eating ice cream, because then you look down and you
eating way more ice cream than you've even realized, which
means that you didn't even enjoy that ice cream. You
want to be more mindful when you're eating, in part,
not just to monitor how much you're eating, but to
enjoy it more. That's part of the whole thing as well.
(13:32):
And then for the next one on the list, in fact,
this satisfaction. Okay, hold on, I've got one more thing
about respecting your fullness. So there's this confusion teaching that
the Japanese called hara hatchi boo, which means belli is
eight percent full. And the kind of rule of thumb
among Japanese people is that you eat until you feel
(13:53):
about full, because then your food kind of expands in
your stomach and by the time um, you're done eating
eventually becomes a hundred percent full. So you don't you
don't overeat until you feel sick. And it's actually extremely satisfying.
It just takes again that level of mindfulness that uh,
and that number six was satisfaction, which is, you know,
(14:16):
enjoy your food, Assess that taste in the texture, and
how does that feel in your stomach? Is it a
gut bomb or does it feel good? Right? And I
think also chuck, if you if you stop and think
about a lot of the ultra processed foods that people
have in America, you will find it doesn't make you
(14:39):
feel very good. So I think the authors are aware
that part of that mindfulness is going to lead you
to a different some different kinds of foods than the
ones that that people traditionally think of that they're just
gonna eat when food when they don't feel guilty about
eating food, you know, right, like they sit back and
they're like, no, no, no, go ahead and uh down
(15:00):
on the ice cream. And then they sit back and
go watch this, right, I don't know about be happy
for a few minutes, and then they're going to be like, oh,
I gotta stomach cakee. I think ice cream is exempted
from that. I keep talking about ice cream ice cream
in the world. Let's I'll leave ice cream alone. But
I think, you know, there's there's been plenty of stuff
that I've eaten where I realized later that it's not
actually good, it doesn't actually taste good, it's not actually satisfying.
(15:23):
It actually makes me feel kind of bad. And then
the icing on the cake of of I love icing
on cake. Disappointment. Yeah, icing and ice cream are exempted,
but the icing on this cake of of um. Just
feeling kind of duped is that I probably saw an
ad for that food within the last couple of days,
(15:43):
and the ad worked its mojo on my head. And
that's why I ate it, not because I like it,
but because the ad got me. And then the food
itself is designed to hijack your limbic system, so I
ate more and more and more. But when I stopped
and really thought about how it made me feel, it
didn't feel good about it. I didn't like that food
and I've actually given up Popeye's chicken as a result.
(16:05):
Very good. Yeah, honoring your feelings is the next one.
Without food. Um, you know, check in with yourself emotionally,
how are you? Are you anxious? You lonely? Are you
stressed out? You mad? Like? What are your food triggers
and why are they there? And try and resolve some
of those those issues without using the food. That's a big,
(16:27):
big part of it. I think that is the part
of it, dude. I think most people who are overweight
are overweight because they eat emotionally. Maybe I'm maybe it's
over confirmation by some huge stress eater huge um, And
I guess it's possible I could just be presuming most
(16:50):
people are like that, But I suspect that that is
the key to all of it. Is if you can
figure out that food is in addiction to you, um,
and that you're using it as an emotional crutch, that
that will make you identify what you're actually trying to
deal with or cover up or run from or make
your make make yourself feel better against using food, and
(17:13):
that is the key to decoupling it. And when you
can do that, you can do all this other stuff,
I would guess is just kind of like a cascade
of easiness from that point on. I think that's probably
the hardest part. UH. Number eight is respecting your body.
And this is the idea that you know, you want
to love your body and accept your body and feel
(17:33):
good about what what they call your genetic blueprint and
the body that you have and maybe were meant to have,
and having a realistic expectation about what you can and
should look like. That's a big, big part of it. UM.
The ninth one really kind of stands out to me
to Chuck is that um, exercise There they're saying, like exercise,
(17:54):
but the thing to know about exercises, you don't exercise
for weight loss. That's not what exercises for. It's actually
not that great for weight loss. It's good for improving
your mood and making you feel better. And it can
help with number eight. With you just respecting your body.
You can just feel good about your body without even
really losing any weight, just from from exercising from time
(18:15):
to time. And they don't even say you necessarily need
to exercise, they're just saying move more. Don't be sentary.
Just a big one. But but that was a big
life changing thing for me too, is learning that exercise
is not about weight loss, it's about boosting your mood
and sense of well being. It feels good, it does,
it feels really good, but if you do it to
(18:35):
try to lose weight, it's very frustrating and counterproductive and
you'll eventually give up exercise probably. Uh. And then the
last one honor your health with gentle nutrition. Uh. And
this is the idea that you're making food choices um
that you you like the taste of, but also honored
the health aspect um. Sure, you might want to have
(18:57):
some cookies and chips from time to time, but focusing
on those, you know, nonprocessed foods that that also do
taste good. That's sort of the route that they suggest
you go right. So, so that's and that's intuitive eating.
Although if you if you go back to number um
uh three, technically number ten could be canceled out. Like
(19:19):
if you're just like, no, I really hate asparagus, I
hate vegetables, I love oreos. I'm just gonna eat oreos.
They're like, Okay, that's fine, as long as you're not
feeling guilt about as long as you love your body,
as long as you know you're listening to yourself and
and the cues your body is telling you whatever, that's
that's just part of it. It's it's go to town.
Just love food and love yourself is kind of the message,
(19:41):
which is a pretty pretty good message that I think
a lot of people want to hear. You want to
take a break and then talk about the idea that
this is rooted in science. Yeah, okay, we're gonna do that.
Eventually everybody will be right back. Stuck stuck, Stuck. I
(20:11):
don't know that you know it's stuck in this Stuck.
It's a great name. That's the name of it. It's
a great name. Alright, stuck snet with with an X. Alright,
so intuitive eating this has been you know, sort of
a new way of thinking. Um, that's come about over
the last like probably ten or fifteen years, maybe a
(20:33):
little bit more, but it seems like it's really gainsteam
in the last ten or fifteen. And the idea is
that they're all these budd buzzwords that we are sort
of ingrained in its dieting, losing weight, getting healthy. They've
changed that to or changing from diet to things like
getting healthy or or it's a lifestyle change. Uh, and
(20:54):
they're trying to avoid some of those earlier buzzwords. But
if you're an anti diet proponent, you're saying, know what,
this is all the same stuff, just because you call
it a lifestyle now and you're talking about getting healthy
rather than losing weight or going on a diet. It's
the same size, it's just in different clothing. Yeah, it's
it's here's the standard and everyone needs to reach it
(21:14):
no matter what. And that really flies in the face
of this idea that that seems to be one of
the tenets of intuitive eating and definitely of the anti
diet movement, which is that every person has their own
different basically genetic weight set point and that that is
what your body is going to stay at uh no
matter what. UM. And if if you try to contravene
(21:40):
that set point, you might be successful for a little bit,
but probably the vast majority of people are going to
suffer relapse, I guess, and they'll gain that weight back
over time. Give them enough time, they'll gain that weight back,
and then the problem is they might even gain even more.
And so there are some diets out there that have
been demonstrably shown to work, like weight Watchers now called WW,
(22:04):
like Jenny Craig now called Jenny Craig still, although I
didn't know it's Australian, so I guess it should be
Genie Craig. How was that that was great? I don't
think it was great. I thought all of a sudden
I was talking to Russell Crowe, right. So um, those
have been shown to work. The problem is this that
(22:25):
you are signing up for a lifetime of paying attention
to what you eat, like that's how it works. Like
it'll work, but you have to keep it up for
literally the rest of your life if you want to
keep that weight off. So um, and then other diets
just don't work at all, or they will work temporarily,
but then you just go right back and then you
gain some weight. And they seem to have figured out,
(22:46):
at least according to intuitive eating dietitians and anti dieting
movement proponents, that there there seems to be some biological
response by the body to diet and it's almost this
comedy of errors that just makes everything even worse when
you try to diet. Yeah, I mean the idea is,
(23:08):
you know, if with any diet pretty much you're restricting
food in some way, whether it's a kind of food
or the amount of food, there is almost always going
to be some amount of hunger involved. Even though they
all say, like, with this diet, you'll never be hungry again.
They all say that, but that's sort of the idea
with any diet is you're restricting yourself. And anti diet
(23:31):
proponents say, you know what, when that happens, your body
is wired to want to eat and survive and when
you're consuming less food energy, Uh, that's going to create
that energy deficit and that's when you're gonna be burning
those fat stores and that is how you lose weight.
But your body is also going to trigger a biological
starvation response. That is going to mean you're gonna fail eventually,
(23:54):
because your body is saying, I got to eat. I
think I'm I think I'm lost in the middle of
the woods all of a sudden, and go eat. You're hungry.
You're hungry. Yeah, you're more hungry than you would have been. Right,
So this can very, very easily lead to binge eating
because you're not just hungry, you're you're angry at this point,
(24:15):
and so when you finally do give in and start
to eat, you're gonna eat more than you would have
if you were just plain hungry. Right, that's a huge
problem with it. But it seems to be even more
um more nuanced than that, and that the body seems
to to enter um basically a kind of starvation mode
(24:36):
where once it does manage to get you out of
that um or starvation response, where it does get you
out of that diet and back into eating. Um, what
what you've just done is scare your brain, it seems like,
so where your brain says, well, I didn't realize that
food scarcity was going to be an issue in our lifetime,
So now that I realize it is, I'm going to
(24:59):
take that set point of adipocity, which is the amount
of fat you would generally store on yourself. I'm gonna
inch it up a little higher so that that my
person can store more fat, because we need to make
sure that if this ever happens again, we have plenty
of energy stores. So when you come out of dieting,
you can actually gain more weight than you had that
(25:19):
before because of that, because of that adipocity set point
being increased, and then as a result, as a response,
you end up dieting again. Your braid says, that happened again,
so your adipocity set point might be set even higher,
and so you'll gain even more weight back. And it's
a phenomenon that we're just starting to understand that I
can't tell if it's just theoretical or an interpretation of evidence,
(25:41):
but a term I've seen for it is called diet
induced obesity. And it's just fascinating to think that dieting
can actually make you heavier then you would have been
if you hadn't diet it at all. Yeah, I mean,
here's a thing I don't think we mentioned yet. When
your body goes into that iological response that says, oh boy,
(26:02):
you gotta eat now. It's also saying you gotta eat
something that's really high in calories. It's like, don't reach
for the triscuit, friend, you need that pimento cheese on
white bread, which yeah, yeah, palmetto cheese. You ever had
that stuff? I've got some of my fridge right now. Buddy, man,
that's the best. It's hard to go back to anything else,
(26:24):
to be honest, I didn't even know there was anything
else anymore, although there was. There's a listener who makes
some Queen Charlotte pimento cheese out of Charlotte, North Carolina.
It's Queen Charlotte. Um, it's extremely good. Yes, it's like
high end pimento cheese, but it's it's not like snooty
(26:45):
pimento cheese is like really really good pimento cheese. Do
you do you get the palmetto? Do you get the
palepeno or bacon or just the plane just the halap Okay? Yeah, no,
I've not had the bacon. I'm trying not to eat pig,
not for any any health reasons, but just because they're
supposed to be really smart. Yeah, I mean I don't
get the bacon because Emily doesn't eat it, and I don't.
(27:06):
I just get the plane. I don't get the helpine either,
because I don't look super hot things although and it's
not that hot. It's um, it's becoming really apparent that
Emily and I are basically one and the same person.
I have drawn up divorce papers for that reason. That's
it from her me. We can't get divorced. Okay, all right, kay?
(27:27):
So um we what were we talking about? Oh? Yeah, yeah,
So your body wants, even like high high calorie foods
to pack that weight back on, and it's going to
pack on more than last time because you've scared it
into thinking that it's going to possibly run into food
scarcity again. So that's what you're doing, is you're basically
forcing your body into a starvation mode to lose weight.
(27:49):
But your body responds by saying, like, I'm two steps
ahead of you. You're not going to win this game.
And then you're eventually going to keep gaining more and
more weight back and dieting more and more. And and
here's the other big part of it, too, Chuck, is
that you're going to end up on this disappointing treadmill
where you've wasted all this time and energy and emotion
into something that's just going to frustrate you. In the
(28:10):
anti dieting people just say stop well, which could trigger
what leads you to eat to begin with, which is
stress and anxiety about your weight. Uh. And then there
are people like Christie Harrison author. She's a podcaster of
Food Pyke and author of anti diet colon Reclaim Your Time, Money,
well Being and Happiness through Intuitive Eating. She's also a
(28:35):
registered dietitian, so she knows what she's talking about too. Yeah,
so she says, you know what this um, your nutrition,
your physical activity, smoking, alcohol, uh, any kind of behavioral
health determine it is just about thirty of your overall
health anyway. And you know people hang everything on this
(28:56):
like that, like an ideal wheat and ideal weight means
I'm healthy. Uh. And and of course we think people
should quit smoking. I'm not saying go out and smoke anyway.
But there are people that say, all of this stuff
combined is only about of your health. And I'm sure
your genetics have a lot to do with it. Um,
(29:17):
somebody may uh, somebody's anxiety and stress level maybe so
high that they have, you know, a steel cable running
through their body at all times. And they may be thin,
but they may drop dead from that heart attack in
their forties because they're not addressing other factors in their
life other than food. Right. Um, And that's it's kind
(29:41):
of rich too for the diet culture to be like, well,
what about health? What about health? Because diet there's some
pretty unhealthy diets out there. Um. I ran across a
few that have come and gone over the years, and
then sometimes I revived. Have you heard of the sleeping
beauty diet? What's that? You take a nap every time
you're hungry, You take sleeping pills at night so you
(30:04):
sleep longer so you're not awake to eat. Don't forget
dealer meal, which wasn't necessarily bad, but it was definitely
calorie rest Richard Simmons very colorful, cute little cards or something. Yeah,
the grapefruit diet, the cabbage soup diet, which severely and
the cabbage soup. I didn't realize this dates back to
(30:25):
the fifties and it works. The thing is it's calorie restrictive,
so you're entering that that's that's that starvation response, and
it'll work if at first, Um, it's just you you
eat more when you finally get to eat again. Um.
And then there's this one is I just can't believe this.
This is a real thing, chuck, the feeding tube diet.
(30:47):
I didn't even want to look that up. I did,
and it's exactly what you think a doctor, a doctor UM,
like I guess, a doctor nick type um fits you
with the naso gastric tube that delivers about eight hundred
calories of nutrients directly to your stomach and um. Under
(31:08):
the severe calorie restriction, you will shed the weight, but
again you're going to gain it all back and then
some probably when you start eating again, so that that's
still going on. Yes, So the idea that you that
that not dieting is unhealthy is awfully rich coming from
(31:29):
people who undertake some of these extraordinarily dangerous diets, like
you can get a kidney infection from that feeding tube diet.
Like a lot of stuff can go wrong, But there
are some things that that do exist in the world
that you have to kind of consider, and one of
them is the obesity epidemic, which is tough to get around,
(31:49):
but astoundingly the anti diet movement has been like we
got this. Yeah, I mean the anti diet diet movement
says there is no public health crisis going on. Uh,
unless you're talking about the diet culture burn. Uh. They're like,
there is no obesity epidemic. If you look at the
average weight of Americans compared to the generation before, it's
(32:13):
about six to eleven pounds more. And maybe what this
has done if you look at the b m I scale,
which basically says there are three types of people I
guess four underweight, normal, overweight, and obese. Uh, that might
that six to eleven pounds, which amounts to ten extra
calories a day um over time, that might nudge you
(32:33):
into a different category, um, from overweight to obese or
from normal to overweight. But b m I and mortality
are just uh. And this is this is what they're saying,
is that that's causation. Like we've we think we have
evidence that shows that being obese and having a higher
(32:53):
b m I doesn't mean you're gonna die sooner, which
is that's astounding lee contrary to the common since it
seems like or at least the common perception of the
link between being overweight and being dead. Basically and apparently
(33:14):
the the the um the holy text of anti diet
ing UH, seems to revolve around this two thousand and
six study by the law professor named campos So I
don't know what campus is first name, but campos um
did a survey of the medical literature and tried to
find the the correlations between b m I and mortality
(33:38):
and and seemed to find that there actually is a correlation,
but it's not where you think that. People who are
in the overweight range or the low range of obesity
apparently don't seem to have much more of a risk
factor than anybody who's in the normal weight range. As
far as mortality goes, you have to get into the UM,
the the the far side of obesity and then the
(34:01):
far side of underweight UM to get to where you're
actually at risk of dying. So that's super contrary to
UM to what most people think. UH. And again like
there's this is a two thousand and six study by
law professor to survey of the new the literature on
nutrition and weight and UM. So you can take that
(34:21):
as you will, but at the same time, if it
is correct, it's still to me, I don't think it
discounts everything because if people have gained six to eleven
pounds on average compared to just a generation before that,
that's not terribly much. I mean, it seems like a
lot depending on how I guess inculcated into the diet
(34:44):
culture you are. But it it seems like that's taking
a snapshot of something that we're still in the process of, um,
and then just saying don't worry about it because it's
just this much, not how much more is it going
to be? And is there danger or if we reach
that point, if everybody ends up like the humans in
that in Wally, you know, um. And it's kind of
(35:07):
akin to saying like, well, the it's just the living
room that's on fire right now, there's the whole rest
of the house is not on fire. Stop your moral
panic about house fires. It's very similar to that. So
I'm not saying that it's wrong, and I'm not saying that, uh,
it doesn't help the anti diet movements, um ideas. But
I think that just to say like bam, case closed
(35:29):
is is a little glib. You're being glib, Matt. What's
that we say that in our house a lot? That
was when Tom Cruise and Matt Lower interviewed Tom Cruise
that scientology. You're being glib Matt. That is about is
Tom Cruise? The thing to say is anyone's ever since?
And look what happened to Matt Lower. Yeah, he got cruised.
(35:53):
Do you want to take a break. Oh my gosh,
have we not taken a second break yet? No, let's
take a break and we'll come back and talk about
The big elephant is in the room right after this
(36:14):
stuck stuck, stuck. I don't know that you know it
stuck and this stuck. It's a great name. That's the
name of it. It's a great name. Alright, stucks net
within with an X. So the elephant in the room
is nutrition. I think this is the glaring thing that
if you've been listening so far and and disagreed with
(36:37):
a lot of the anti diet movement, you're probably saying,
you can't eat just oreos just because it makes you
feel good. You gotta have nutrition. The body needs nutrition.
And here's the thing, the body does need nutrition. But
the anti diet movement says, just unwire your brain on
(36:57):
um this moral judgment on food, and if you get
too intuitive eating you're what we're saying is listen to
your body. And if you eat these just oreos for lunch,
you're gonna feel like garbage later on. And if you're
listening to your body, your body is gonna tell you
that it wants nutrition, and it wants good vegetables and
(37:20):
it wants whole foods. And if you're really in tune
and you're really listening and you're not just uh saying, oh, well,
I'm just gonna give myself permission because I'm an anti
dieter to do whatever I want. And I may be
doubled over in pain every afternoon for eating garbage food. Uh,
that means you're not doing it right. That means you're
not listening to your body because your body will crave
nutritional health. Right, you're just being a smart alec at
(37:41):
that point. That's right. So UM. There there's that's kind
of like the big the big thing among registered UM
dietitians and nutritionists that basically says like, you know, yeah,
we're in favor of anti diet ng and we're definitely
in favor of people being body positive. Um. There's some
thing called UM Healthy at Every Size UM that was
(38:04):
founded by h Dr Bacon of all people any size
any size, Yes, size, health at every size, Linda Bacon
back in two thousand ten um. And so most most
dieticians and nutritions are like, of course, we're all very
much in favor of that, but like, nutrition is important,
(38:27):
and I'm sure there's some people out there like, yeah,
you would say that you're a nutritionist, but it is.
There's just I just think that there's no getting around
the idea that you need healthy, whole foods. I think
the problem is the anti diet movement says that sounds
awfully close to there's such things as good foods and
(38:47):
there's such things as bad foods, and we reject that
out right, And the nutritionists are saying, no, there really
is such things as foods that are better for you
and your body and are going to make you feel
better when you eat them then other foods. So technically
sure there is such thing as good and bad foods
of that sense, but not shame. It's just this is
(39:09):
going to provide more benefits for you than this. Yeah,
and you know there is a real danger too. Uh.
And the people that are I guess you would say
against the anti diet movement say like, listen, we can't
let this thing. We're all for body positivity, but we
can't let it go so far in the other direction
that your diet shaming and you're saying, you know, you
(39:32):
shouldn't eat like you were saying you shouldn't seek out
nutritional foods, like, don't let the pendulum swing so far
in the other direction that your brainwashing people into thinking
that they can just eat garbage all the time and
be healthy. I don't get the impression that that is
super prevalent among anti diet movement. I don't think it is.
(39:54):
I think it's more that seems to be targeting any
kind of weight loss, and that seems to be a
division in the anti diet movement itself to where um,
if you if you want to lose weight, or even
if you don't say you want to lose weight, but
it's evident that you did. There's a model named Ashley
Graham who was UM a full figured UH Sports Illustrated
(40:17):
cover model UM a couple of years back, and she
like lost a few a few pounds but it's still
definitely plus size and full figured and proud of it UM.
But she she she faced a huge backlash as a
result of that, where people were like, I'm not a
fan of yours anymore because you lost you lost weight,
and you've betrayed us all. So there's there's this division
(40:39):
between well, no, I feel better when I shed a
couple of pounds and I have no problem with with
wanting to shed a couple of pounds, and the other
side is like, you can't even think that way. That's
diet culture brainwashing you. We reject that, and we reject
you basically too. And so there's it's just the Internet
has been injected into it, which is the problem is
what it seems like, right, because people should be able
(41:02):
to make their own decisions on their own bodies and
how they feel the best suits them without being piled
on on the internet and on either side and I
and I get to also that people are like, well no,
that like when you talk about that stuff, it makes
me feel shame. It triggers my shame. But the problem
is is like you, you can't control other people. You
(41:25):
can only control yourself and your response to other people
and forcing other people to behave in a way that
makes life easier for you. It's not how things work,
Like you have to just focus on yourself and your
own response and your own positivity so that it is
strong enough and robust enough that it can withstand hearing
other people talk about how they wish they could lose
(41:45):
some weight and being like, huh, you know what, I
don't anymore. I'm truly body positive. I truly love my body. Um.
That would be the true body positivity that that people
are trying to achieve there, and it would solve the
problem of fighting in eating among people who agree on
almost everything else. You know, yeah, and it's you know,
it's a it's so hard wired, it's really hard to undo.
(42:08):
It takes a lot of work. There was a study
in two thousand seventeen of intuitive eating among retired female athletes,
and they said they felt very liberated and when they
you know, made that shift to food freedom for lack
of a better term, but they said it quote necessitated
an effortful process of recalibration, during which athletes had to
(42:30):
relearn and reinterpret their bodies physiological signals of hunger and satiety. So,
like I was saying earlier, how that you know, you
you lose these signals from when you were a baby
that you A lot of work has to go into
relearning those signals, um, and these are from these female
athletes of uh. And this isn't necessarily the same thing,
(42:50):
but there's a big movement now among former NFL players
to get their health back into shape. And there's a
long list of these men who have come out saying
the NFL like kills you, uh, the weight that you
have to keep on, the amount of food that you
have to eat to be you know, an offense or
defensive lineman. And the before and after pictures of some
(43:14):
of these guys there are like six four three twenty
on the offensive line that are now like six four
to five is unbelievable, and they're just like, I've never
felt better in my life. And I can walk around
now and I don't feel like I'm you know, carrying
a sled behind me, uh, Because the NFL is just like, no, man,
(43:34):
you gotta you gotta way three pounds if you want
to be on the line. Yeah. And then I think
also the opposite way is for people who are in
sports and have to be severely calorie restricted, you're basically
taught to have an eating disorder that you have to
unlearned when you stop playing sports too. So it kind
of goes both ways. I think the key here is
(43:54):
for everybody, for athletes, for everyday people, for people who
are overweight underweight, the the cross that all of us
are bearing, if you'll allow me to get a little
religious in my metaphors here, um, is that we all
have to stop being so obsessed with food and how
we we look in our weight. And it's just we're
(44:15):
all almost all of us are on the same road together,
and it's good to remember that we're on it together,
traveling together. Let's stop squabbling with one another. I definitely
honor my hunger. You got anything else, I got nothing else? Okay, Um,
thank you for listening everybody. We hope this helped. We
hope it didn't set anybody off. If it did, email
(44:37):
us let us know. We apologize in advance. That was
definitely not our intent. Um. And since we said that,
it's time for listener. Now, I'm gonna call this ex
murder and Family or X murdered family. Hey, you guys
are the best. I stumbled upon your macha that ain't
just tea podcast a few weeks ago, and I've been
(44:59):
down to stuff should know rabbit hole ever since. Well,
welcome to the show. Of Jenny. Yeah, welcome. Love hearing
about new listeners right. Most recently, I've been really into
your shows about axe murderers. They're fascinating. And get this,
I've discovered that members of my own family were killed
by an axe murderer or two in the eighteen hundreds.
(45:19):
There's a whole book about it titled to Murder along
the Muskanic Cong Murder along the Muskanic Cong. I thought
it was more. They're called the infamous Change Water Massacres
of eight forty three. Uh. The casting Her family, which
is my family line, was sleeping one night when two
men who were attempting to rob them came in and
(45:41):
murdered the mother, uncle, and two year old sister with axes.
They had lured the father outside, killed him and threw
him in a ditch right before that. What's amazing is
that there were two survivors, little JP and his older
brother Victor, who were asleep on a cot behind the doorway.
The murderers had no clue the boys were there, and
they were left unharmed and slept through the whole thing
(46:01):
at six and ten years old. What's interesting is that
I'm not sure if the two men convicted were killers?
Were the Killers? More than two other men were originally arrested,
so it's kind of sketchy. You guys should check it out.
Thanks for all you do. You're a comfort, especially during
the strange season. That is from Jenny Farnand thanks Jenny.
(46:22):
That's awesome. We're probably just farning. I get I like
Fard the Destroyer, the Macha Drinker. Um, thanks Jenny. We
appreciate you listening. Can you imagine those two boys six
and ten being like, hey, who's up for pan kit?
When they wake up? Is it too soon? It's an
(46:42):
eight murder Chuck and the other one says, no, I'd
rather have waffle oh a little bit. Yeah, we might
cut this, but if we don't, you guys can let
us know how much we suck. Um. We're right to
us via email at stuff podcast Us at iHeart radio
dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of
(47:06):
iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my
heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
where ever you listen to your favorite shows. H
Hey, everybody. I don't know if you've heard, but we
have a book coming out finally, finally, after all these years.
It's great, it's fun. You're gonna love it. It's called
Stuff You Should Know Colon, an incomplete compendium of mostly
interesting things. Ye, and it's twenty six jam packed chapters
that we wrote with another guy named Nils Parker, who's
(00:22):
amazing and is illustrated amazingly by our illustrator Carl Manardo.
And it's just an all around joy to pick up
and read. Even though we haven't physically held in our
hands yet, it's like we have Chuck in our dreams
so far. I can't wait to actually see and hold
this thing and smell it. And so should you, so
pre order now. It means a lot to us. The
(00:43):
support is a very big deal, So pre order anywhere
books are sold. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a
production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles Chizy,
(01:04):
Chuck Bryant, and this is Stuff You Should Know. Um, yeah,
that's all I gotta say. I think this is super interesting,
this anti diet movement episode MM hmm, I do too.
I'd heard a little bit about it. Every once in
a while, we'll say something and one of our listeners
will write in and be like, Hey, you guys shouldn't
(01:25):
be saying that, or you guys shouldn't be talking about,
you know, trying to lose weight or something, because it
shames other people indirectly, Like you should check out the
anti dieting movement. So all of you people who have
ever written in with the suggestion for that, this one's
for you, because I believe all of you are the
ones who who brought that to my awareness. Yeah. So
(01:48):
the anti diet movement is a response to, Um, there's
a lot of pieces to it, and we're gonna we're
gonna go over all of them. But it's a response
to diet culture in the world old especially in the
United States, and a response that basically says, we don't
think diet culture is healthy. Uh, literally healthy for your
(02:11):
physical health and also not healthy for your mental health
and for the well being of an individual. Uh, we
don't think diets work. We think we have proof and
studies that show diets don't work, and we think that
there's a better way, which is to accept food as
something that is to be enjoyed and accept your body.
(02:32):
And there's a lot more to it than that, but
that's sort of the broadest stroke in society goes what
I tell you, man, it's when you look at how
we are, you know, I don't want to maybe brainwashed
is too strong of a word, but how humans and
Americans are brainwashed into thinking there is only one way
(02:56):
right to live um and only one way to of
that way right. It's pretty interesting and hard to undo.
And there's and we're all of us, every single one
of us in America, and I would guess and most
of the West as well, are subjects to kind of
this two pronged attack about weight. One is the idea
(03:17):
that you just don't look as good when you're overweight,
and then to the idea that you're not as healthy
when you're overweight. And this anti dieting movement rejects both
of those. They they so their whole thing is. And
it's really it's worth kind of restating here because it's
tough to wrap your head around because of the way
(03:38):
that we've all been brought up for so long that
the anti dieting movement isn't like no, no, no. All
you have to do is cut meat out and you're fine.
You can do everything else. There's nothing like that. It's
not only not only don't diet, it's throw away. You're
dieting books, stop following dieting blogs, reject the standard of
(03:59):
beauty at like the the small kind of vaguely underweight
um standard that we have in the West. Um. And
stop listening to people, including your own inner voice. That's
that that makes you feel ashamed when you crave or
eat certain foods. That all foods are on the table.
There's no such thing as bad foods. And you can
(04:21):
just stop thinking about weight and food. Those two things
can be decoupled for the rest of your life. You're free,
basically is whether say you're free, Go fly, little bird,
go live your life, stop thinking about being overweight. Yeah,
And it all comes down and this might it's just
some people may just think this is the craziest thing
they've ever heard in their life. Um. But what they're
(04:45):
saying is is something called that you should embrace, something
called intuitive eating. And this came around and the sometime
in the nineties there was a book written by Evelyn
Tree Bowl and uh At Lease resh called intuitive eating
colon a revolutionary program that works. And this is and
(05:08):
this was basically the idea that we've been looking at.
This cycle happened for years of restricting your food, getting
on a diet, losing weight, gaining it back, sometimes gaining
back even more weight, doing this over and over and over.
It's not working. It's not good for people, it's not effective. Uh,
(05:29):
it doesn't make you healthier to go through this weight
loss and weight gain cycle. And you need to stop
listening to these external controls, whether it's the media or
your parents, or your spouse or partner or yourself. And
you need to start listening to your body and eating
(05:50):
what your body says to eat. And here's the important part,
stop eating when your body says it's full, right, And
so they kind of put all these things. So intuitive
eating is kind of the central focus of anti dieting,
but it's not one and the same. Anti dieting is
a larger umbrella movement is the best word for it.
(06:12):
That includes anti or intuitive eating, but it also includes
a kind of a militant opposition to um fat shaming
of any sort of any kind, and also kind of
believes not even kind of overtly believes that any weight
loss goal is negative, that it's it comes from that
(06:35):
being brainwashed culturally. So we'll talk more about that anti
dieting movement in general, but like we should really explain
the intense principles of intuitive eating that UM that triple
and Rush put together, and we should say it one
other thing too, This is not a diet So so
when you're hearing these things, don't think and then you
(06:56):
do this and you lose weight. Now that's out the window.
That has nothing to do with this. This is about
your relationship to food. And then number two, these people
are no slouches. UM Trible and Rush are both registered dietitians,
which are UM certified regulated UM professionals who know what
they're talking about with with nutrition and intuitive eating is
(07:19):
widely almost universally embraced by dietitians and nutritionists as well.
So you just kind of keep that mindset when you're
hearing these ten principles of intuitive eating. Yeah, and before
we actually listen to ten, it's worth pointing out that
part of intuitive eating is UH. Part of the foundation
is the fact that they say, hey, listen, look at
(07:41):
your kids when you're born and your little baby, and
you don't know anything. You're just a dumb baby, and
you grow up to be a dumb little toddler. Your
body tells you when you're hungry, and you eat, and
your body tells you when you're full, and you stop eating.
And I see that with my five year old. I'm
not hungry anymore, all right, stop eating. And it's that easy.
(08:03):
And the argument for intuitive eating is that, uh, and
you know, partially the anti diet movement is somewhere along
the way, we lose that as adults or as you know,
teenagers even because of this onslaught from the media and
from everybody talking about your weight, your weight, your weight,
and your health and you've got to be skinny, and
we lose these we literally lose these biological triggers that
(08:27):
say when you're hungry, stop when you're full. Those just
go away. And the idea is to kind of retrain
your mind and body to get back to that state
you were when you were a dumb baby, right, Yeah,
because I don't even know if it goes away. We're
just trained by diet culture to ignore them. It goes away. Yeah,
I know, I don't know if I agree with that. One,
(08:49):
but I but the but the key is is that
that it's being one way or another. We don't have
that intuitively anymore because diet culture is come in and
replace that with no pay attention to the calories or
ignore the fact that you're hungry because you're you're limiting
portion size and they're saying, ignore that bad advice. Right,
(09:11):
So here are the principles, the ten principles. The first
one is we already kind of covered it to reject
the diet mentality. Basically, it's just saying that you know,
these these diets, um don't deliver lasting results, and you've
got to remind yourself of that, right. Um. There's also
the next one is honor your hunger. It's so sweet
(09:31):
they have honor and here a couple of times, but
they're basically saying that when you are hungry, you should eat,
and you should pay attention to not only um, what
your bodies like the fact that your body is telling
you're hungry, so so go ahead and eat, but um,
what your body is asking for too. Now your body,
it's important to say, is what they're saying to honor
(09:54):
not you're sad, so go eat the ice cream, right,
which comes later. That comes later. Yeah, what else, Chuck,
there's make peace with food. Yeah, that is basically unconditional
permission to eat um. You know, we're tempted by the
twinkies and the ice cream and stuff like that. And
they're saying, give yourself that permission, because that's sort of
(10:17):
one of the keys is once you rewire your brain,
you're not gonna want the twinkie for lunch because it
doesn't have that allure and it's probably not gonna make
you feel great physically. And maybe you need to do
that a couple of times to realize, you, boy, I
don't feel so hot after eating ice cream for lunch
and only ice cream for lunch exactly. Yeah. So so
(10:37):
there's they're saying, just like there's there's if you if
you are on the couch and you're like, uh, those
oreo sound good? Should I should not? They're saying, get
rid of this. Should I should not? If you feel
hungry and those oreo sound good, you just get up
and you eat the oreos without a second thought. That's
the point of making peace with food, giving yourself permission
to live like that, That's right. The next one, number
(11:00):
four is challenged the food police, which can be everything
from your friends and family or partners to your own
and I think many times your own inner voice probably
more than any anything, that inner voice UM. And one
of the things that the food police too, is um,
they can come about in ways that are much less
(11:22):
direct than than calling them the food police. Sounds like
food police, sounds like somebody who's going to tell you
to put down that twinkie because you, you know, a
moment on the lips of a lifetime on the hips.
People who say stuff like that to other people, that's
definitely food police kind of stuff. But that that same
kind of guilt or shame or reinforcement of feeling guilty
(11:45):
or ashamed about food can come from people who are
talking about their own dislike for their body or their weight,
because um, it makes you kind of sympathetically trigger and
examine your own, especially if that person is maybe um,
weighs less than you do, because if they're worried about
their weight, well geez, that means you should really be
(12:06):
worried about your weight. Or they're worried about eating that
the grilled chicken on their Caesar salad and you're tucking
into a chili dog, should you really be eating this?
So the food police in this sense can kind of
come from a number of different directions. Defund the food police.
Ye uh. The next one is respect your fullness. And
this is a big part of it because they're saying
(12:28):
eat when you're hungry, but they're not saying eat till
you feel sick. They're saying you need to listen to
your body at all times when it's hungry, feed it
and then maybe eat a little slower, maybe pause during
that snack or during that meal and say, all right, body,
all am I hungry now? Or my board or stressed out?
(12:49):
And is that why I'm continuing to eat? Like check
in with yourself in the middle of a meal to see, body,
do you need fuel right now? Or you know it's
some and going on at work and this twinkie makes
it a whole lot better. And so that kind of
um reveals like one of the big principles of intuitive eating,
(13:10):
which is mindfulness, Like you're not supposed to just kind
of zone out and watch you know, TV while you're
eating ice cream, because then you look down and you
eating way more ice cream than you've even realized, which
means that you didn't even enjoy that ice cream. You
want to be more mindful when you're eating, in part,
not just to monitor how much you're eating, but to
enjoy it more. That's part of the whole thing as well.
(13:32):
And then for the next one on the list, in fact,
this satisfaction. Okay, hold on, I've got one more thing
about respecting your fullness. So there's this confusion teaching that
the Japanese called hara hatchi boo, which means belli is
eight percent full. And the kind of rule of thumb
among Japanese people is that you eat until you feel
(13:53):
about full, because then your food kind of expands in
your stomach and by the time um, you're done eating
eventually becomes a hundred percent full. So you don't you
don't overeat until you feel sick. And it's actually extremely satisfying.
It just takes again that level of mindfulness that uh,
and that number six was satisfaction, which is, you know,
(14:16):
enjoy your food, Assess that taste in the texture, and
how does that feel in your stomach? Is it a
gut bomb or does it feel good? Right? And I
think also chuck, if you if you stop and think
about a lot of the ultra processed foods that people
have in America, you will find it doesn't make you
(14:39):
feel very good. So I think the authors are aware
that part of that mindfulness is going to lead you
to a different some different kinds of foods than the
ones that that people traditionally think of that they're just
gonna eat when food when they don't feel guilty about
eating food, you know, right, like they sit back and
they're like, no, no, no, go ahead and uh down
(15:00):
on the ice cream. And then they sit back and
go watch this, right, I don't know about be happy
for a few minutes, and then they're going to be like, oh,
I gotta stomach cakee. I think ice cream is exempted
from that. I keep talking about ice cream ice cream
in the world. Let's I'll leave ice cream alone. But
I think, you know, there's there's been plenty of stuff
that I've eaten where I realized later that it's not
actually good, it doesn't actually taste good, it's not actually satisfying.
(15:23):
It actually makes me feel kind of bad. And then
the icing on the cake of of I love icing
on cake. Disappointment. Yeah, icing and ice cream are exempted,
but the icing on this cake of of um. Just
feeling kind of duped is that I probably saw an
ad for that food within the last couple of days,
(15:43):
and the ad worked its mojo on my head. And
that's why I ate it, not because I like it,
but because the ad got me. And then the food
itself is designed to hijack your limbic system, so I
ate more and more and more. But when I stopped
and really thought about how it made me feel, it
didn't feel good about it. I didn't like that food
and I've actually given up Popeye's chicken as a result.
(16:05):
Very good. Yeah, honoring your feelings is the next one.
Without food. Um, you know, check in with yourself emotionally,
how are you? Are you anxious? You lonely? Are you
stressed out? You mad? Like? What are your food triggers
and why are they there? And try and resolve some
of those those issues without using the food. That's a big,
(16:27):
big part of it. I think that is the part
of it, dude. I think most people who are overweight
are overweight because they eat emotionally. Maybe I'm maybe it's
over confirmation by some huge stress eater huge um, And
I guess it's possible I could just be presuming most
(16:50):
people are like that, But I suspect that that is
the key to all of it. Is if you can
figure out that food is in addiction to you, um,
and that you're using it as an emotional crutch, that
that will make you identify what you're actually trying to
deal with or cover up or run from or make
your make make yourself feel better against using food, and
(17:13):
that is the key to decoupling it. And when you
can do that, you can do all this other stuff,
I would guess is just kind of like a cascade
of easiness from that point on. I think that's probably
the hardest part. UH. Number eight is respecting your body.
And this is the idea that you know, you want
to love your body and accept your body and feel
(17:33):
good about what what they call your genetic blueprint and
the body that you have and maybe were meant to have,
and having a realistic expectation about what you can and
should look like. That's a big, big part of it. UM.
The ninth one really kind of stands out to me
to Chuck is that um, exercise There they're saying, like exercise,
(17:54):
but the thing to know about exercises, you don't exercise
for weight loss. That's not what exercises for. It's actually
not that great for weight loss. It's good for improving
your mood and making you feel better. And it can
help with number eight. With you just respecting your body.
You can just feel good about your body without even
really losing any weight, just from from exercising from time
(18:15):
to time. And they don't even say you necessarily need
to exercise, they're just saying move more. Don't be sentary.
Just a big one. But but that was a big
life changing thing for me too, is learning that exercise
is not about weight loss, it's about boosting your mood
and sense of well being. It feels good, it does,
it feels really good, but if you do it to
(18:35):
try to lose weight, it's very frustrating and counterproductive and
you'll eventually give up exercise probably. Uh. And then the
last one honor your health with gentle nutrition. Uh. And
this is the idea that you're making food choices um
that you you like the taste of, but also honored
the health aspect um. Sure, you might want to have
(18:57):
some cookies and chips from time to time, but focusing
on those, you know, nonprocessed foods that that also do
taste good. That's sort of the route that they suggest
you go right. So, so that's and that's intuitive eating.
Although if you if you go back to number um
uh three, technically number ten could be canceled out. Like
(19:19):
if you're just like, no, I really hate asparagus, I
hate vegetables, I love oreos. I'm just gonna eat oreos.
They're like, Okay, that's fine, as long as you're not
feeling guilt about as long as you love your body,
as long as you know you're listening to yourself and
and the cues your body is telling you whatever, that's
that's just part of it. It's it's go to town.
Just love food and love yourself is kind of the message,
(19:41):
which is a pretty pretty good message that I think
a lot of people want to hear. You want to
take a break and then talk about the idea that
this is rooted in science. Yeah, okay, we're gonna do that.
Eventually everybody will be right back. Stuck stuck, Stuck. I
(20:11):
don't know that you know it's stuck in this Stuck.
It's a great name. That's the name of it. It's
a great name. Alright, stuck snet with with an X. Alright,
so intuitive eating this has been you know, sort of
a new way of thinking. Um, that's come about over
the last like probably ten or fifteen years, maybe a
(20:33):
little bit more, but it seems like it's really gainsteam
in the last ten or fifteen. And the idea is
that they're all these budd buzzwords that we are sort
of ingrained in its dieting, losing weight, getting healthy. They've
changed that to or changing from diet to things like
getting healthy or or it's a lifestyle change. Uh, and
(20:54):
they're trying to avoid some of those earlier buzzwords. But
if you're an anti diet proponent, you're saying, know what,
this is all the same stuff, just because you call
it a lifestyle now and you're talking about getting healthy
rather than losing weight or going on a diet. It's
the same size, it's just in different clothing. Yeah, it's
it's here's the standard and everyone needs to reach it
(21:14):
no matter what. And that really flies in the face
of this idea that that seems to be one of
the tenets of intuitive eating and definitely of the anti
diet movement, which is that every person has their own
different basically genetic weight set point and that that is
what your body is going to stay at uh no
matter what. UM. And if if you try to contravene
(21:40):
that set point, you might be successful for a little bit,
but probably the vast majority of people are going to
suffer relapse, I guess, and they'll gain that weight back
over time. Give them enough time, they'll gain that weight back,
and then the problem is they might even gain even more.
And so there are some diets out there that have
been demonstrably shown to work, like weight Watchers now called WW,
(22:04):
like Jenny Craig now called Jenny Craig still, although I
didn't know it's Australian, so I guess it should be
Genie Craig. How was that that was great? I don't
think it was great. I thought all of a sudden
I was talking to Russell Crowe, right. So um, those
have been shown to work. The problem is this that
(22:25):
you are signing up for a lifetime of paying attention
to what you eat, like that's how it works. Like
it'll work, but you have to keep it up for
literally the rest of your life if you want to
keep that weight off. So um, and then other diets
just don't work at all, or they will work temporarily,
but then you just go right back and then you
gain some weight. And they seem to have figured out,
(22:46):
at least according to intuitive eating dietitians and anti dieting
movement proponents, that there there seems to be some biological
response by the body to diet and it's almost this
comedy of errors that just makes everything even worse when
you try to diet. Yeah, I mean the idea is,
(23:08):
you know, if with any diet pretty much you're restricting
food in some way, whether it's a kind of food
or the amount of food, there is almost always going
to be some amount of hunger involved. Even though they
all say, like, with this diet, you'll never be hungry again.
They all say that, but that's sort of the idea
with any diet is you're restricting yourself. And anti diet
(23:31):
proponents say, you know what, when that happens, your body
is wired to want to eat and survive and when
you're consuming less food energy, Uh, that's going to create
that energy deficit and that's when you're gonna be burning
those fat stores and that is how you lose weight.
But your body is also going to trigger a biological
starvation response. That is going to mean you're gonna fail eventually,
(23:54):
because your body is saying, I got to eat. I
think I'm I think I'm lost in the middle of
the woods all of a sudden, and go eat. You're hungry.
You're hungry. Yeah, you're more hungry than you would have been. Right,
So this can very, very easily lead to binge eating
because you're not just hungry, you're you're angry at this point,
(24:15):
and so when you finally do give in and start
to eat, you're gonna eat more than you would have
if you were just plain hungry. Right, that's a huge
problem with it. But it seems to be even more
um more nuanced than that, and that the body seems
to to enter um basically a kind of starvation mode
(24:36):
where once it does manage to get you out of
that um or starvation response, where it does get you
out of that diet and back into eating. Um, what
what you've just done is scare your brain, it seems like,
so where your brain says, well, I didn't realize that
food scarcity was going to be an issue in our lifetime,
So now that I realize it is, I'm going to
(24:59):
take that set point of adipocity, which is the amount
of fat you would generally store on yourself. I'm gonna
inch it up a little higher so that that my
person can store more fat, because we need to make
sure that if this ever happens again, we have plenty
of energy stores. So when you come out of dieting,
you can actually gain more weight than you had that
(25:19):
before because of that, because of that adipocity set point
being increased, and then as a result, as a response,
you end up dieting again. Your braid says, that happened again,
so your adipocity set point might be set even higher,
and so you'll gain even more weight back. And it's
a phenomenon that we're just starting to understand that I
can't tell if it's just theoretical or an interpretation of evidence,
(25:41):
but a term I've seen for it is called diet
induced obesity. And it's just fascinating to think that dieting
can actually make you heavier then you would have been
if you hadn't diet it at all. Yeah, I mean,
here's a thing I don't think we mentioned yet. When
your body goes into that iological response that says, oh boy,
(26:02):
you gotta eat now. It's also saying you gotta eat
something that's really high in calories. It's like, don't reach
for the triscuit, friend, you need that pimento cheese on
white bread, which yeah, yeah, palmetto cheese. You ever had
that stuff? I've got some of my fridge right now. Buddy, man,
that's the best. It's hard to go back to anything else,
(26:24):
to be honest, I didn't even know there was anything
else anymore, although there was. There's a listener who makes
some Queen Charlotte pimento cheese out of Charlotte, North Carolina.
It's Queen Charlotte. Um, it's extremely good. Yes, it's like
high end pimento cheese, but it's it's not like snooty
(26:45):
pimento cheese is like really really good pimento cheese. Do
you do you get the palmetto? Do you get the
palepeno or bacon or just the plane just the halap Okay? Yeah, no,
I've not had the bacon. I'm trying not to eat pig,
not for any any health reasons, but just because they're
supposed to be really smart. Yeah, I mean I don't
get the bacon because Emily doesn't eat it, and I don't.
(27:06):
I just get the plane. I don't get the helpine either,
because I don't look super hot things although and it's
not that hot. It's um, it's becoming really apparent that
Emily and I are basically one and the same person.
I have drawn up divorce papers for that reason. That's
it from her me. We can't get divorced. Okay, all right, kay?
(27:27):
So um we what were we talking about? Oh? Yeah, yeah,
So your body wants, even like high high calorie foods
to pack that weight back on, and it's going to
pack on more than last time because you've scared it
into thinking that it's going to possibly run into food
scarcity again. So that's what you're doing, is you're basically
forcing your body into a starvation mode to lose weight.
(27:49):
But your body responds by saying, like, I'm two steps
ahead of you. You're not going to win this game.
And then you're eventually going to keep gaining more and
more weight back and dieting more and more. And and
here's the other big part of it, too, Chuck, is
that you're going to end up on this disappointing treadmill
where you've wasted all this time and energy and emotion
into something that's just going to frustrate you. In the
(28:10):
anti dieting people just say stop well, which could trigger
what leads you to eat to begin with, which is
stress and anxiety about your weight. Uh. And then there
are people like Christie Harrison author. She's a podcaster of
Food Pyke and author of anti diet colon Reclaim Your Time, Money,
well Being and Happiness through Intuitive Eating. She's also a
(28:35):
registered dietitian, so she knows what she's talking about too. Yeah,
so she says, you know what this um, your nutrition,
your physical activity, smoking, alcohol, uh, any kind of behavioral
health determine it is just about thirty of your overall
health anyway. And you know people hang everything on this
(28:56):
like that, like an ideal wheat and ideal weight means
I'm healthy. Uh. And and of course we think people
should quit smoking. I'm not saying go out and smoke anyway.
But there are people that say, all of this stuff
combined is only about of your health. And I'm sure
your genetics have a lot to do with it. Um,
(29:17):
somebody may uh, somebody's anxiety and stress level maybe so
high that they have, you know, a steel cable running
through their body at all times. And they may be thin,
but they may drop dead from that heart attack in
their forties because they're not addressing other factors in their
life other than food. Right. Um, And that's it's kind
(29:41):
of rich too for the diet culture to be like, well,
what about health? What about health? Because diet there's some
pretty unhealthy diets out there. Um. I ran across a
few that have come and gone over the years, and
then sometimes I revived. Have you heard of the sleeping
beauty diet? What's that? You take a nap every time
you're hungry, You take sleeping pills at night so you
(30:04):
sleep longer so you're not awake to eat. Don't forget
dealer meal, which wasn't necessarily bad, but it was definitely
calorie rest Richard Simmons very colorful, cute little cards or something. Yeah,
the grapefruit diet, the cabbage soup diet, which severely and
the cabbage soup. I didn't realize this dates back to
(30:25):
the fifties and it works. The thing is it's calorie restrictive,
so you're entering that that's that's that starvation response, and
it'll work if at first, Um, it's just you you
eat more when you finally get to eat again. Um.
And then there's this one is I just can't believe this.
This is a real thing, chuck, the feeding tube diet.
(30:47):
I didn't even want to look that up. I did,
and it's exactly what you think a doctor, a doctor UM,
like I guess, a doctor nick type um fits you
with the naso gastric tube that delivers about eight hundred
calories of nutrients directly to your stomach and um. Under
(31:08):
the severe calorie restriction, you will shed the weight, but
again you're going to gain it all back and then
some probably when you start eating again, so that that's
still going on. Yes, So the idea that you that
that not dieting is unhealthy is awfully rich coming from
(31:29):
people who undertake some of these extraordinarily dangerous diets, like
you can get a kidney infection from that feeding tube diet.
Like a lot of stuff can go wrong, But there
are some things that that do exist in the world
that you have to kind of consider, and one of
them is the obesity epidemic, which is tough to get around,
(31:49):
but astoundingly the anti diet movement has been like we
got this. Yeah, I mean the anti diet diet movement
says there is no public health crisis going on. Uh,
unless you're talking about the diet culture burn. Uh. They're like,
there is no obesity epidemic. If you look at the
average weight of Americans compared to the generation before, it's
(32:13):
about six to eleven pounds more. And maybe what this
has done if you look at the b m I scale,
which basically says there are three types of people I
guess four underweight, normal, overweight, and obese. Uh, that might
that six to eleven pounds, which amounts to ten extra
calories a day um over time, that might nudge you
(32:33):
into a different category, um, from overweight to obese or
from normal to overweight. But b m I and mortality
are just uh. And this is this is what they're saying,
is that that's causation. Like we've we think we have
evidence that shows that being obese and having a higher
(32:53):
b m I doesn't mean you're gonna die sooner, which
is that's astounding lee contrary to the common since it
seems like or at least the common perception of the
link between being overweight and being dead. Basically and apparently
(33:14):
the the the um the holy text of anti diet
ing UH, seems to revolve around this two thousand and
six study by the law professor named campos So I
don't know what campus is first name, but campos um
did a survey of the medical literature and tried to
find the the correlations between b m I and mortality
(33:38):
and and seemed to find that there actually is a correlation,
but it's not where you think that. People who are
in the overweight range or the low range of obesity
apparently don't seem to have much more of a risk
factor than anybody who's in the normal weight range. As
far as mortality goes, you have to get into the UM,
the the the far side of obesity and then the
(34:01):
far side of underweight UM to get to where you're
actually at risk of dying. So that's super contrary to
UM to what most people think. UH. And again like
there's this is a two thousand and six study by
law professor to survey of the new the literature on
nutrition and weight and UM. So you can take that
(34:21):
as you will, but at the same time, if it
is correct, it's still to me, I don't think it
discounts everything because if people have gained six to eleven
pounds on average compared to just a generation before that,
that's not terribly much. I mean, it seems like a
lot depending on how I guess inculcated into the diet
(34:44):
culture you are. But it it seems like that's taking
a snapshot of something that we're still in the process of, um,
and then just saying don't worry about it because it's
just this much, not how much more is it going
to be? And is there danger or if we reach
that point, if everybody ends up like the humans in
that in Wally, you know, um. And it's kind of
(35:07):
akin to saying like, well, the it's just the living
room that's on fire right now, there's the whole rest
of the house is not on fire. Stop your moral
panic about house fires. It's very similar to that. So
I'm not saying that it's wrong, and I'm not saying that, uh,
it doesn't help the anti diet movements, um ideas. But
I think that just to say like bam, case closed
(35:29):
is is a little glib. You're being glib, Matt. What's
that we say that in our house a lot? That
was when Tom Cruise and Matt Lower interviewed Tom Cruise
that scientology. You're being glib Matt. That is about is
Tom Cruise? The thing to say is anyone's ever since?
And look what happened to Matt Lower. Yeah, he got cruised.
(35:53):
Do you want to take a break. Oh my gosh,
have we not taken a second break yet? No, let's
take a break and we'll come back and talk about
The big elephant is in the room right after this
(36:14):
stuck stuck, stuck. I don't know that you know it
stuck and this stuck. It's a great name. That's the
name of it. It's a great name. Alright, stucks net
within with an X. So the elephant in the room
is nutrition. I think this is the glaring thing that
if you've been listening so far and and disagreed with
(36:37):
a lot of the anti diet movement, you're probably saying,
you can't eat just oreos just because it makes you
feel good. You gotta have nutrition. The body needs nutrition.
And here's the thing, the body does need nutrition. But
the anti diet movement says, just unwire your brain on
(36:57):
um this moral judgment on food, and if you get
too intuitive eating you're what we're saying is listen to
your body. And if you eat these just oreos for lunch,
you're gonna feel like garbage later on. And if you're
listening to your body, your body is gonna tell you
that it wants nutrition, and it wants good vegetables and
(37:20):
it wants whole foods. And if you're really in tune
and you're really listening and you're not just uh saying, oh, well,
I'm just gonna give myself permission because I'm an anti
dieter to do whatever I want. And I may be
doubled over in pain every afternoon for eating garbage food. Uh,
that means you're not doing it right. That means you're
not listening to your body because your body will crave
nutritional health. Right, you're just being a smart alec at
(37:41):
that point. That's right. So UM. There there's that's kind
of like the big the big thing among registered UM
dietitians and nutritionists that basically says like, you know, yeah,
we're in favor of anti diet ng and we're definitely
in favor of people being body positive. Um. There's some
thing called UM Healthy at Every Size UM that was
(38:04):
founded by h Dr Bacon of all people any size
any size, Yes, size, health at every size, Linda Bacon
back in two thousand ten um. And so most most
dieticians and nutritions are like, of course, we're all very
much in favor of that, but like, nutrition is important,
(38:27):
and I'm sure there's some people out there like, yeah,
you would say that you're a nutritionist, but it is.
There's just I just think that there's no getting around
the idea that you need healthy, whole foods. I think
the problem is the anti diet movement says that sounds
awfully close to there's such things as good foods and
(38:47):
there's such things as bad foods, and we reject that
out right, And the nutritionists are saying, no, there really
is such things as foods that are better for you
and your body and are going to make you feel
better when you eat them then other foods. So technically
sure there is such thing as good and bad foods
of that sense, but not shame. It's just this is
(39:09):
going to provide more benefits for you than this. Yeah,
and you know there is a real danger too. Uh.
And the people that are I guess you would say
against the anti diet movement say like, listen, we can't
let this thing. We're all for body positivity, but we
can't let it go so far in the other direction
that your diet shaming and you're saying, you know, you
(39:32):
shouldn't eat like you were saying you shouldn't seek out
nutritional foods, like, don't let the pendulum swing so far
in the other direction that your brainwashing people into thinking
that they can just eat garbage all the time and
be healthy. I don't get the impression that that is
super prevalent among anti diet movement. I don't think it is.
(39:54):
I think it's more that seems to be targeting any
kind of weight loss, and that seems to be a
division in the anti diet movement itself to where um,
if you if you want to lose weight, or even
if you don't say you want to lose weight, but
it's evident that you did. There's a model named Ashley
Graham who was UM a full figured UH Sports Illustrated
(40:17):
cover model UM a couple of years back, and she
like lost a few a few pounds but it's still
definitely plus size and full figured and proud of it UM.
But she she she faced a huge backlash as a
result of that, where people were like, I'm not a
fan of yours anymore because you lost you lost weight,
and you've betrayed us all. So there's there's this division
(40:39):
between well, no, I feel better when I shed a
couple of pounds and I have no problem with with
wanting to shed a couple of pounds, and the other
side is like, you can't even think that way. That's
diet culture brainwashing you. We reject that, and we reject
you basically too. And so there's it's just the Internet
has been injected into it, which is the problem is
what it seems like, right, because people should be able
(41:02):
to make their own decisions on their own bodies and
how they feel the best suits them without being piled
on on the internet and on either side and I
and I get to also that people are like, well no,
that like when you talk about that stuff, it makes
me feel shame. It triggers my shame. But the problem
is is like you, you can't control other people. You
(41:25):
can only control yourself and your response to other people
and forcing other people to behave in a way that
makes life easier for you. It's not how things work,
Like you have to just focus on yourself and your
own response and your own positivity so that it is
strong enough and robust enough that it can withstand hearing
other people talk about how they wish they could lose
(41:45):
some weight and being like, huh, you know what, I
don't anymore. I'm truly body positive. I truly love my body. Um.
That would be the true body positivity that that people
are trying to achieve there, and it would solve the
problem of fighting in eating among people who agree on
almost everything else. You know, yeah, and it's you know,
it's a it's so hard wired, it's really hard to undo.
(42:08):
It takes a lot of work. There was a study
in two thousand seventeen of intuitive eating among retired female athletes,
and they said they felt very liberated and when they
you know, made that shift to food freedom for lack
of a better term, but they said it quote necessitated
an effortful process of recalibration, during which athletes had to
(42:30):
relearn and reinterpret their bodies physiological signals of hunger and satiety. So,
like I was saying earlier, how that you know, you
you lose these signals from when you were a baby
that you A lot of work has to go into
relearning those signals, um, and these are from these female
athletes of uh. And this isn't necessarily the same thing,
(42:50):
but there's a big movement now among former NFL players
to get their health back into shape. And there's a
long list of these men who have come out saying
the NFL like kills you, uh, the weight that you
have to keep on, the amount of food that you
have to eat to be you know, an offense or
defensive lineman. And the before and after pictures of some
(43:14):
of these guys there are like six four three twenty
on the offensive line that are now like six four
to five is unbelievable, and they're just like, I've never
felt better in my life. And I can walk around
now and I don't feel like I'm you know, carrying
a sled behind me, uh, Because the NFL is just like, no, man,
(43:34):
you gotta you gotta way three pounds if you want
to be on the line. Yeah. And then I think
also the opposite way is for people who are in
sports and have to be severely calorie restricted, you're basically
taught to have an eating disorder that you have to
unlearned when you stop playing sports too. So it kind
of goes both ways. I think the key here is
(43:54):
for everybody, for athletes, for everyday people, for people who
are overweight underweight, the the cross that all of us
are bearing, if you'll allow me to get a little
religious in my metaphors here, um, is that we all
have to stop being so obsessed with food and how
we we look in our weight. And it's just we're
(44:15):
all almost all of us are on the same road together,
and it's good to remember that we're on it together,
traveling together. Let's stop squabbling with one another. I definitely
honor my hunger. You got anything else, I got nothing else? Okay, Um,
thank you for listening everybody. We hope this helped. We
hope it didn't set anybody off. If it did, email
(44:37):
us let us know. We apologize in advance. That was
definitely not our intent. Um. And since we said that,
it's time for listener. Now, I'm gonna call this ex
murder and Family or X murdered family. Hey, you guys
are the best. I stumbled upon your macha that ain't
just tea podcast a few weeks ago, and I've been
(44:59):
down to stuff should know rabbit hole ever since. Well,
welcome to the show. Of Jenny. Yeah, welcome. Love hearing
about new listeners right. Most recently, I've been really into
your shows about axe murderers. They're fascinating. And get this,
I've discovered that members of my own family were killed
by an axe murderer or two in the eighteen hundreds.
(45:19):
There's a whole book about it titled to Murder along
the Muskanic Cong Murder along the Muskanic Cong. I thought
it was more. They're called the infamous Change Water Massacres
of eight forty three. Uh. The casting Her family, which
is my family line, was sleeping one night when two
men who were attempting to rob them came in and
(45:41):
murdered the mother, uncle, and two year old sister with axes.
They had lured the father outside, killed him and threw
him in a ditch right before that. What's amazing is
that there were two survivors, little JP and his older
brother Victor, who were asleep on a cot behind the doorway.
The murderers had no clue the boys were there, and
they were left unharmed and slept through the whole thing
(46:01):
at six and ten years old. What's interesting is that
I'm not sure if the two men convicted were killers?
Were the Killers? More than two other men were originally arrested,
so it's kind of sketchy. You guys should check it out.
Thanks for all you do. You're a comfort, especially during
the strange season. That is from Jenny Farnand thanks Jenny.
(46:22):
That's awesome. We're probably just farning. I get I like
Fard the Destroyer, the Macha Drinker. Um, thanks Jenny. We
appreciate you listening. Can you imagine those two boys six
and ten being like, hey, who's up for pan kit?
When they wake up? Is it too soon? It's an
(46:42):
eight murder Chuck and the other one says, no, I'd
rather have waffle oh a little bit. Yeah, we might
cut this, but if we don't, you guys can let
us know how much we suck. Um. We're right to
us via email at stuff podcast Us at iHeart radio
dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of
(47:06):
iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my
heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
where ever you listen to your favorite shows. H
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