April 24, 2019 • 12 mins
Speaking in public is frequently cited as people’s number one fear, even more fearful than death. Most people go through life avoiding public speaking, but it turns out that only makes things worse. The best medicine? Public speaking.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck.
There's Josh, the other Josh who has now become our
go to guest producer, and this is short stuff. Enough
about that. Yeah, we fired Frank the chair and the
little water dipping bird that pressed record, which was Yeah,
the bird really started to phone things in, don't you think?
(00:25):
I think so, Chuck, Speaking of phoning things in, imagine
having to do public speaking. I can't imagine what that
must be like. Do you remember. I mean, we've done
plenty of talks, we've done live shows. That's just kind
of part of what we do. Do you remember them
crippling stage fright I used to get. Yeah, I mean
(00:46):
we both had varying levels early on. It's not like
I was always a cool cucumber. You seemed like it.
Well that you didn't go into the bathroom with me
moments before showtime. I always wanted to, But yeah, you were.
You were that through me. Um. You always were a
bit more nervous. But I think you're just wound a
(01:07):
little tighter in general. But we we both overcame that
for the most part, don't you think. Yeah? Yeah, And
you know how we overcame it. I can tell you how,
and I know that you know how, but let's tell
everybody else through through basically exposure therapy, just doing it.
And it turns out what we're talking about is is
just public speaking in general. But um, the fear of
(01:30):
public speaking almost goes hand in hand with public speaking.
I saw a stat that said that people of people
in the world have a fear of public speaking. I'm
surprised it's not more than that. To be honest, I
am too. And then there's that old trope, the idea
that there's some poll taken somewhere of what Americans fear
(01:51):
the most, and number one was public speaking and number
two was death. And Jerry Seinfeld turned it into that
men that most people would rather be in the casket
than giving the eulogy because of that fear of public speaking.
And there's a word for it too, it's called glossophobia,
which is great work. Yeah, I mean, it's a it's
(02:12):
a real thing, and we should point out that it
is a legit um anxiety disorder, a social anxiety disorder
for for most people. Um, Like I had a bit
of the jitters. I don't think I was had a
technical I was a technical glossophob um. But for a
lot of people, it's not just like I'm nervous, my
(02:33):
palms are sweaty. For some people, it's debilitating to the
point where they will structure their life so that they
never have to do that, never have a job where
they have to speak in front of like a conference room,
you know, right, or small handful of people, basically anybody.
They always want to be the ones in the audience.
(02:53):
They don't want to be the ones giving the talk
so much so, like you said, they'll they'll structure their
their life around avoiding it. Avoidance is like the number
one go to thing that people do when they suffer
from glossophobia. They just do whatever they can to not
give that talk. That's right, And like you said that,
it's a it's a subset of a social anxiety disorder,
(03:16):
which is really at base a social anxiety disorder is
a UM. It's a performance fear. It's the fear of
being judged and or failing. Um, that's what it is
among your peers. Yeah, it's the it's the fear of
the result, not like I mean, it manifests its ways
as you like walk up on that stage but what
(03:37):
you're really afraid of is saying the wrong thing, uh,
feeling like you've said something dumb, being judged as not
knowing what you're talking about. And that's why it helped us,
because we have a very forgiving, loving, loyal audience whenever
we go out to do live shows. It makes it
a lot easier than And we've done talks where we
(04:01):
weren't full in a room full of stuff you should know, fans,
and those are always more nerve racking for me. Well,
they also always went really poorly too. You're kind of right.
But one of the problems though with this is is
like that that you're not only your fear, you know,
not knowing what you're talking about or being judged and failing,
but also catastrophically screwing up, like forgetting your place, maybe
(04:26):
bursting into tears and running off of stage, and so
you fear these things. But the insidious thing about you know,
glossophobia are really any social anxiety disorder, is that you
come to fear the fear. Right. It's not like you
experience just the fear while you're up on stage. You
you fear this, this failure, this whatever it is you're
(04:49):
you're having to do for a very long stretch ahead
of time. And that is the most crippling part of
any social anxiety disorder, the fear of the fear of
so aciated with it, and that's what leads to the avoidance. Right,
So let's take a quick break and we're gonna come
back and talk about how this manifests itself in what
you can do about it right after this. If you
(05:22):
want to know, then you're in luck. Just listen to Chuck.
All right, So you gotta give a talk at your
school or whatever, which I did, by the way, my
very first like a big in front of people speaking
(05:42):
and not just like classroom size, was when I ran
for a vice president of student council. I had to
speak in front of the entire school in the gym
and it was pretty nerve. Ranking new locker combos for everyone?
Was that your platform? No? What was it? Brady or no?
A Happy Days? Was angled parking? That was the big
thing that Richie was running on, Was it? Really? Yeah? Man,
(06:04):
that is a it's an arcane trivia question right there.
I have no idea how that's stuck with me. But um,
what you will feel in your body, which is what
I felt back then and what I don't so much
feel now is on edge. Um, if it's really bad,
sense of panic and doom, your heart's gonna be beating faster.
These are like literal physical changes. You will be sweating,
(06:26):
especially if you're me. You might be trembling, you might
feel weak and dizzy. Uh. You might have trouble sleeping
in the days proceeding for weeks or weeks. Um, I
have trouble sleeping after shows because of just the adrenaline,
just because you're so amped. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,
there's definitely a come down stage. But all this is
(06:46):
actually science and physiological things that are going on in
your body, isn't that right? Yeah, And the reason why
you're having this physiological reaction is because the whole thing
any social anxiety disorder, but also a glossophobias, since it's
a subset of that is centered around the amygdala, which
regulates our emotions. And for some reason, they think it
starts in childhood, probably where there's just some sort of
(07:08):
you know, innate shyness that doesn't um dealt with and
just grows and grows and grows as an adult, but
you start to associate performance with fear and the amygdala.
Then when it senses that there's some sort of performance
impending starts to freak you out. It associates performance with
(07:29):
that fear and not only things that have gone wrong
in the past, but all the things that could go
wrong in the future, and releases the same stress hormones
that it releases. If a bear suddenly shows itself to
you and takes a swipe at you with with its clause,
which means that the fight or flight uh response is
(07:49):
kicked in, So you're having a physiological fight or flight response,
which is why you feel like you want to run
from wherever. The place you have to give the talk
is just run forever, quite job, start a new life,
maybe grow a mustache as a disguise. Yeah. And as
a kid, it's like it can very easily be avoided
instead of dealt with. And then that fear just never
(08:10):
has overcome and you become an adult who has that
same fear uh and you walk a really fine line
as a parent. I'm already seeing this with like, now
you don't have to do that. If you don't, you know,
if it freaks you out too much, or you know,
you don't want to be the fifties parent either. That's like, no,
get on that high dive and jump right, you know,
like they back then they thought they were helping. Like
(08:32):
my dad, I was scared of roller coasters and he
told me, I'm not bringing you back anymore than if
you don't get on this roller coaster right now. And
I did and I loved it. However, I mean, people
don't parent that way anymore. So you really got to
walk that fine line of encouragement and maybe like it
might be good if you could overcome this fear without
(08:54):
traumatizing them at the same time, Right, you have to
figure out a way to trick them into doing it
kind of you. There's a lot of trickery involved, I
can imagine there has to be. That's the there's your
fine line, there's the balance struck right there. But avoidance
is not going to solve your problem. And experts say,
if you want to, if you have to overcome this
fear or want to, uh, you gotta do what we
(09:15):
did and you've got to just kind of start doing
it on a smaller scale ideally, right. So, um, if
you really really have it bad, and this is say
like affecting you personally or professionally or whatever. Um, it
would help probably to go seek a cognitive behavioral therapist
who's going to help you retrain your brain to see
things differently so that your brain doesn't associate public speaking
(09:39):
with abject fear and terror. And the way that you
do this, like you said, just kind of starting out small,
maybe giving a speech alone in a room, and then
moving up to one in front of a friend, then
a handful of friends, your dog, maybe even first I'll
bet your dog, wouldn't you. Most dogs aren't very judging usually,
and then maybe moving up to some thing like toast masters,
(10:01):
like a supportive group that is that that can really
help you and give you a chance to give speeches
in front of other people who are very supportive and
aren't going to judge you. And then you just keep
going and pushing yourself and pushing yourself, and by doing
that over and over again in increasingly um anxiety inducing settings,
you retrain your brain so that it doesn't associate terror,
(10:24):
it associates good things instead, like that that being pumped
up on adrenaline afterwards because you're you're so thrilled with yourself. Yeah,
I've I've been to many weddings where I feel bad
for the toastmaster that UH was kind of that position
was shoved onto them, and they it ruins the wedding
up until that point for them a lot of times,
because you can just tell they're just like, I don't
(10:46):
want to do this, man, I've just been going over,
been writing, and I just always feel so bad. I
thought you're gonna say it ruins the wedding, Well, it
ruins their experience right until it's over, and then they
just get plastered. Right. But on one of the things
you can do to UM, no matter whether you're performing
for yourself in a room alone or in front of
(11:06):
like a room full of people, UM, one way to
really help yourself is to know the material to be
prepared and not just memorize it, because if you memorize that,
you can lose your place and then you're just toast.
To know the material so much that you can improve
and add lib whenever needed, because there's such thing as
hecklers out there and they will try to throw you off.
(11:29):
But if you know the stuff, you can find your
place again and be much more comfortable. That's the advice
I always give to people is if you're nervous, just
know the material inside now, and then you can start
to relax and make the jokes that people love. Good advice.
If your crutches the actual material, then you're in good shape. Right.
So that's it for public speaking. Get out there and
(11:50):
speak publicly and in the meantime, this is short stuff out.
Stuff you should know is production of I Heart Radio.
How stuff works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,
visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. H M.
Hey, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck.
There's Josh, the other Josh who has now become our
go to guest producer, and this is short stuff. Enough
about that. Yeah, we fired Frank the chair and the
little water dipping bird that pressed record, which was Yeah,
the bird really started to phone things in, don't you think?
(00:25):
I think so, Chuck, Speaking of phoning things in, imagine
having to do public speaking. I can't imagine what that
must be like. Do you remember. I mean, we've done
plenty of talks, we've done live shows. That's just kind
of part of what we do. Do you remember them
crippling stage fright I used to get. Yeah, I mean
(00:46):
we both had varying levels early on. It's not like
I was always a cool cucumber. You seemed like it.
Well that you didn't go into the bathroom with me
moments before showtime. I always wanted to, But yeah, you were.
You were that through me. Um. You always were a
bit more nervous. But I think you're just wound a
(01:07):
little tighter in general. But we we both overcame that
for the most part, don't you think. Yeah? Yeah, And
you know how we overcame it. I can tell you how,
and I know that you know how, but let's tell
everybody else through through basically exposure therapy, just doing it.
And it turns out what we're talking about is is
just public speaking in general. But um, the fear of
(01:30):
public speaking almost goes hand in hand with public speaking.
I saw a stat that said that people of people
in the world have a fear of public speaking. I'm
surprised it's not more than that. To be honest, I
am too. And then there's that old trope, the idea
that there's some poll taken somewhere of what Americans fear
(01:51):
the most, and number one was public speaking and number
two was death. And Jerry Seinfeld turned it into that
men that most people would rather be in the casket
than giving the eulogy because of that fear of public speaking.
And there's a word for it too, it's called glossophobia,
which is great work. Yeah, I mean, it's a it's
(02:12):
a real thing, and we should point out that it
is a legit um anxiety disorder, a social anxiety disorder
for for most people. Um, Like I had a bit
of the jitters. I don't think I was had a
technical I was a technical glossophob um. But for a
lot of people, it's not just like I'm nervous, my
(02:33):
palms are sweaty. For some people, it's debilitating to the
point where they will structure their life so that they
never have to do that, never have a job where
they have to speak in front of like a conference room,
you know, right, or small handful of people, basically anybody.
They always want to be the ones in the audience.
(02:53):
They don't want to be the ones giving the talk
so much so, like you said, they'll they'll structure their
their life around avoiding it. Avoidance is like the number
one go to thing that people do when they suffer
from glossophobia. They just do whatever they can to not
give that talk. That's right, And like you said that,
it's a it's a subset of a social anxiety disorder,
(03:16):
which is really at base a social anxiety disorder is
a UM. It's a performance fear. It's the fear of
being judged and or failing. Um, that's what it is
among your peers. Yeah, it's the it's the fear of
the result, not like I mean, it manifests its ways
as you like walk up on that stage but what
(03:37):
you're really afraid of is saying the wrong thing, uh,
feeling like you've said something dumb, being judged as not
knowing what you're talking about. And that's why it helped us,
because we have a very forgiving, loving, loyal audience whenever
we go out to do live shows. It makes it
a lot easier than And we've done talks where we
(04:01):
weren't full in a room full of stuff you should know, fans,
and those are always more nerve racking for me. Well,
they also always went really poorly too. You're kind of right.
But one of the problems though with this is is
like that that you're not only your fear, you know,
not knowing what you're talking about or being judged and failing,
but also catastrophically screwing up, like forgetting your place, maybe
(04:26):
bursting into tears and running off of stage, and so
you fear these things. But the insidious thing about you know,
glossophobia are really any social anxiety disorder, is that you
come to fear the fear. Right. It's not like you
experience just the fear while you're up on stage. You
you fear this, this failure, this whatever it is you're
(04:49):
you're having to do for a very long stretch ahead
of time. And that is the most crippling part of
any social anxiety disorder, the fear of the fear of
so aciated with it, and that's what leads to the avoidance. Right,
So let's take a quick break and we're gonna come
back and talk about how this manifests itself in what
you can do about it right after this. If you
(05:22):
want to know, then you're in luck. Just listen to Chuck.
All right, So you gotta give a talk at your
school or whatever, which I did, by the way, my
very first like a big in front of people speaking
(05:42):
and not just like classroom size, was when I ran
for a vice president of student council. I had to
speak in front of the entire school in the gym
and it was pretty nerve. Ranking new locker combos for everyone?
Was that your platform? No? What was it? Brady or no?
A Happy Days? Was angled parking? That was the big
thing that Richie was running on, Was it? Really? Yeah? Man,
(06:04):
that is a it's an arcane trivia question right there.
I have no idea how that's stuck with me. But um,
what you will feel in your body, which is what
I felt back then and what I don't so much
feel now is on edge. Um, if it's really bad,
sense of panic and doom, your heart's gonna be beating faster.
These are like literal physical changes. You will be sweating,
(06:26):
especially if you're me. You might be trembling, you might
feel weak and dizzy. Uh. You might have trouble sleeping
in the days proceeding for weeks or weeks. Um, I
have trouble sleeping after shows because of just the adrenaline,
just because you're so amped. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,
there's definitely a come down stage. But all this is
(06:46):
actually science and physiological things that are going on in
your body, isn't that right? Yeah, And the reason why
you're having this physiological reaction is because the whole thing
any social anxiety disorder, but also a glossophobias, since it's
a subset of that is centered around the amygdala, which
regulates our emotions. And for some reason, they think it
starts in childhood, probably where there's just some sort of
(07:08):
you know, innate shyness that doesn't um dealt with and
just grows and grows and grows as an adult, but
you start to associate performance with fear and the amygdala.
Then when it senses that there's some sort of performance
impending starts to freak you out. It associates performance with
(07:29):
that fear and not only things that have gone wrong
in the past, but all the things that could go
wrong in the future, and releases the same stress hormones
that it releases. If a bear suddenly shows itself to
you and takes a swipe at you with with its clause,
which means that the fight or flight uh response is
(07:49):
kicked in, So you're having a physiological fight or flight response,
which is why you feel like you want to run
from wherever. The place you have to give the talk
is just run forever, quite job, start a new life,
maybe grow a mustache as a disguise. Yeah. And as
a kid, it's like it can very easily be avoided
instead of dealt with. And then that fear just never
(08:10):
has overcome and you become an adult who has that
same fear uh and you walk a really fine line
as a parent. I'm already seeing this with like, now
you don't have to do that. If you don't, you know,
if it freaks you out too much, or you know,
you don't want to be the fifties parent either. That's like, no,
get on that high dive and jump right, you know,
like they back then they thought they were helping. Like
(08:32):
my dad, I was scared of roller coasters and he
told me, I'm not bringing you back anymore than if
you don't get on this roller coaster right now. And
I did and I loved it. However, I mean, people
don't parent that way anymore. So you really got to
walk that fine line of encouragement and maybe like it
might be good if you could overcome this fear without
(08:54):
traumatizing them at the same time, Right, you have to
figure out a way to trick them into doing it
kind of you. There's a lot of trickery involved, I
can imagine there has to be. That's the there's your
fine line, there's the balance struck right there. But avoidance
is not going to solve your problem. And experts say,
if you want to, if you have to overcome this
fear or want to, uh, you gotta do what we
(09:15):
did and you've got to just kind of start doing
it on a smaller scale ideally, right. So, um, if
you really really have it bad, and this is say
like affecting you personally or professionally or whatever. Um, it
would help probably to go seek a cognitive behavioral therapist
who's going to help you retrain your brain to see
things differently so that your brain doesn't associate public speaking
(09:39):
with abject fear and terror. And the way that you
do this, like you said, just kind of starting out small,
maybe giving a speech alone in a room, and then
moving up to one in front of a friend, then
a handful of friends, your dog, maybe even first I'll
bet your dog, wouldn't you. Most dogs aren't very judging usually,
and then maybe moving up to some thing like toast masters,
(10:01):
like a supportive group that is that that can really
help you and give you a chance to give speeches
in front of other people who are very supportive and
aren't going to judge you. And then you just keep
going and pushing yourself and pushing yourself, and by doing
that over and over again in increasingly um anxiety inducing settings,
you retrain your brain so that it doesn't associate terror,
(10:24):
it associates good things instead, like that that being pumped
up on adrenaline afterwards because you're you're so thrilled with yourself. Yeah,
I've I've been to many weddings where I feel bad
for the toastmaster that UH was kind of that position
was shoved onto them, and they it ruins the wedding
up until that point for them a lot of times,
because you can just tell they're just like, I don't
(10:46):
want to do this, man, I've just been going over,
been writing, and I just always feel so bad. I
thought you're gonna say it ruins the wedding, Well, it
ruins their experience right until it's over, and then they
just get plastered. Right. But on one of the things
you can do to UM, no matter whether you're performing
for yourself in a room alone or in front of
(11:06):
like a room full of people, UM, one way to
really help yourself is to know the material to be
prepared and not just memorize it, because if you memorize that,
you can lose your place and then you're just toast.
To know the material so much that you can improve
and add lib whenever needed, because there's such thing as
hecklers out there and they will try to throw you off.
(11:29):
But if you know the stuff, you can find your
place again and be much more comfortable. That's the advice
I always give to people is if you're nervous, just
know the material inside now, and then you can start
to relax and make the jokes that people love. Good advice.
If your crutches the actual material, then you're in good shape. Right.
So that's it for public speaking. Get out there and
(11:50):
speak publicly and in the meantime, this is short stuff out.
Stuff you should know is production of I Heart Radio.
How stuff works. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,
visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. H M.
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