March 27, 2024 • 11 mins
The strange thing about the story of the Ramree Island Crocodile Massacre is that it didn't happen. Yet the story lives on.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck.
Ben's here two sitting in for Dave. It's a brain buster,
which we like to call short stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's right. This is when we tell the tale of
the Ramri Island crocodile massacre.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
It was bizarre, boy, what just happened? So, yeah, you
mentioned the Ramri Island crocodile massacret that happens to be
the title of this episode. Let's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Thank goodness. All right, here's the story. Nineteen forty five,
World War two is happening. The Allies had pinned down
one thousand Japanese soldier and a mangrove swamp off of
what is now Minamar. Back then it was Burma. I
imagine they weren't like me and thought, oh jeez, I
love mangroves. This is amazing. They were scared and it's
(00:49):
all they should have been, because only twenty of those
one thousand soldiers made it out alive. And as the
story goes, roughly nine hundred of them were eaten by
saltwater crocodiles.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yes, and just an orgy of animal flesh eating horror.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, which should be the first sign that. Hm, maybe
that's not quite right.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, you just kind of spoiled the whole thing for everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, what else is there?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The idea that Crocodile's a nine hundred Japanese soldiers in
a single night in a mangrove swamp on Ramree Island
off of me and mar Yeah, well that's the story
that was basically generally believed back when people were I
don't want to say dumber, because we're pretty dumb now,
but maybe well a little more prone to listen to
(01:44):
the Guinness Book of World Records.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, and maybe a little less access to good information,
even though you know the Internet give it and take
it away of course in that respect. But the origins
of the story are there was a Royal Canadian Lieutenant
command named Bruce Wright who little side note, he was
credited with being the guy who sort of invented the
(02:06):
idea of the frogman unit, when these scuba div ring
soldiers would scuba dive near something and spy or maybe
stick a bomb in the underside of a submarine or something.
I don't know what they do. But he was taking
part in a joint British and Indian mission there at
Ramary Island. He was a leader of the frogmen. He
(02:26):
was a reconnaissance guy. He was also a wildlife biologist
and author. And then later on in nineteen sixty two,
wrote a book called Wildlife Sketches Colon Near and Far
in which he detailed partially detailed the story of this
crocodile massacre.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah. And so he was a respected naturalist or respected
biologist by this time. And if he hadn't a been,
we probably wouldn't be talking about this story right now. Yeah, because,
like he said at the outsid is so fantastic that
it just defies sensibility. But because there was a respected naturalist,
(03:08):
Bruce Wright writing about this, it was picked up by
another scientist, a conservationist named Roger carus Or Karris, who
wrote a book a couple of years later called Dangerous
to Man. And even in his account of the Ramriy
Island massacre he says, like, if this had come from
somebody else, I would not be recounting it here. But
(03:31):
not only is Bruce Wright like very respected and a
trustworthy fellow, he was on Ramory Island when this happened.
So it happened.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, But here's the deal, and I said he detailed it,
Right did in his book. It wasn't that detailed. It
was only a paragraph, so it wasn't super robust. I
think the more robust account came from Karris's book. But
here's the deal is that Right was at Ramriy, but
he did not witness this happen. He apparently, we found
(04:03):
out later, had picked up on this story second hand
from some of his We said that he was, you know,
working with the British military, from some of those British
soldiers who are patrolling the island. So he picks up
that passage second hand. And in the book, if you
read his passage, he never even claims to have personally
witnessed it.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, can't touch this, that's right.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So that's another problem. We should probably talk a little
bit about the sea crocodiles though, huh? Or should we
take a break?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I think we should take a break and come back.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
All right, we'll do that, and then she's you're gonna
hear so much about sea crocodiles you'll be crazy with it.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay, Chuck, we're back. We're talking about the saltwater crocodile
Crocodilus porosis poof also known as the esturine. Esturine right, esturine.
M I just keep saying the same version over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I know how to say estuary, but esturine. Maybe that
is it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
It's got to be it. Crocodile. There's only one of
two crocodile species that will prey on humans. And one
reason they prey on humans is because we're basically like
a a piece of gum to the compared to their guys.
Sure an amuse bouche.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, they're big. They can get up to twenty three feet,
they can weigh a ton. They are, like you said,
they're pretty aggressive. Like you know, we've done stuff on
crocodiles and alligators even they're not super aggressive animals. But
these saltwater crocs are pretty territorial, and I think they've
done some stats. The most recent I found was twenty
(06:05):
fifteen seventy nine fatal saltwater crocodile attacks out of one
hundred and eighty in one year in Southeast Asia and
coastal India and Oceania.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So yeah, which is where they live, so basically throughout
the world. That's how many people were.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Attacked, Yeah, exactly, But seventy nine fatalities in a year
is a lot for you know, talking about eating by crocodile,
but when you talk about nine hundred men being eate,
like eaten overnight, that doesn't sound possible.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah. And there was a historian named Frank mclenn who
wrote a book on the Battle and the Pacific, specifically
on or the War in the Pacific is specifically the
battles in Burma, and he mentions this crocodile story and
he says that it quote offends every single canaan of
historical verifability.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Every single cannon.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Verifiability. What is going on?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I don't know. You didn't say battle was specific there,
so I was kind of proud of.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
You, the Battle of Pisketti. Yeah, So Frank mclenn's onto something.
He's like, this doesn't even make sense, because seriously, by
this time, the story is that nine hundred Japanese soldiers
were eaten in a single horrific night in an island
off of Burma, in a mangrove swamp, and that the
(07:25):
British who were fighting them heard their horrific cries as
they perished. And finally, Frank mclan's like, this does not
make sense everybody, let's just stop and use our noodles
for a second.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, the whole thing starts to kind of fall apart.
First of all, that neither one of the official either
Japanese or British military records mentioned this at all, so
that's a big one. Second of all, they didn't lose
nine hundred soldiers there at Ramrey. Apparently there were a
couple of investigations and about five hundred of the original
(07:59):
one thousand did get out alive. So I went on
to five hundred, that would still be too many, And
so apparently they did more investigating. They talked to Burmese
villagers who were alive during that time. Some of them
were actually conscripted by the military of Japan, and they said,
you know, most of them actually died from disease and
(08:21):
dehydration and exposure, and if any were eaten, it may
have been like a dozen or so.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Which is still significant. I mean, like, if one hundred
and eighty for a year across the world and only
seventy nine are killed, a dozen in a couple of
weeks is pretty significant. The thing is, it's not like
this story is completely without merit. It's just it was
so ridiculously embellished that basically everybody's like, this isn't true,
(08:51):
but there's still Apparently were sounds, terrible sounds coming from
the Japanese soldiers that the British noticed. But there were
a couple of investigations into this. Herpetologist Stephen Platt investigated
in a national geographic show called Nazi World War Weird
also investigated, and I don't remember which one, but they
(09:14):
one of them looked into the British military records for
that battle, which again was weeks long, a single night
and on one particular night though February eighteenth, nineteen forty five,
which would coincide with the original story about the crocodile massacre,
the Allies were alerted by cries of Japanese soldiers, but
(09:34):
they weren't being attacked by crocodiles. They were drowning by
the dozens as they were trying to swim from Ramrie
Island to the Burmese mainland.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Equally as horrifying. But I also always thought, didn't we
even find out for research of drowning as a pretty
quiet affair.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yes, So there were some other things that could have
accounted for this one. The British started mowing them down
with machine guns as they tried to swim away. That
was ultimately what accounted for the massacre at Ramree Island.
They were also being picked off by sharks and some
of them died as their boats were sinking. And if
(10:11):
your boat sinking, I'm sure that can probably get a
pretty good loud rise out of you.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, And I think the next day at daybreak, there
were crocodiles feeding on bodies and they were just obviously
there was a lot of you know, crocodile food there
all of a sudden, so there are a lot more
crocodiles in view, and so I think that it sort
of helped the story, or at least a legend build.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah. So if you take all that information, put it
into Bruce Wright, pick them up, shake them for a
little bit, turn them upside down, what pours out is
the Ramrie Island crocodile massacres story.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, So there you go, myth busted way to go.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Adam Short stuff out?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Short stuff is that stuff you should know? Is a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app
Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck.
Ben's here two sitting in for Dave. It's a brain buster,
which we like to call short stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
That's right. This is when we tell the tale of
the Ramri Island crocodile massacre.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
It was bizarre, boy, what just happened? So, yeah, you
mentioned the Ramri Island crocodile massacret that happens to be
the title of this episode. Let's talk about it.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Thank goodness. All right, here's the story. Nineteen forty five,
World War two is happening. The Allies had pinned down
one thousand Japanese soldier and a mangrove swamp off of
what is now Minamar. Back then it was Burma. I
imagine they weren't like me and thought, oh jeez, I
love mangroves. This is amazing. They were scared and it's
(00:49):
all they should have been, because only twenty of those
one thousand soldiers made it out alive. And as the
story goes, roughly nine hundred of them were eaten by
saltwater crocodiles.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yes, and just an orgy of animal flesh eating horror.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, which should be the first sign that. Hm, maybe
that's not quite right.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, you just kind of spoiled the whole thing for everybody.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, what else is there?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The idea that Crocodile's a nine hundred Japanese soldiers in
a single night in a mangrove swamp on Ramree Island
off of me and mar Yeah, well that's the story
that was basically generally believed back when people were I
don't want to say dumber, because we're pretty dumb now,
but maybe well a little more prone to listen to
(01:44):
the Guinness Book of World Records.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, and maybe a little less access to good information,
even though you know the Internet give it and take
it away of course in that respect. But the origins
of the story are there was a Royal Canadian Lieutenant
command named Bruce Wright who little side note, he was
credited with being the guy who sort of invented the
(02:06):
idea of the frogman unit, when these scuba div ring
soldiers would scuba dive near something and spy or maybe
stick a bomb in the underside of a submarine or something.
I don't know what they do. But he was taking
part in a joint British and Indian mission there at
Ramary Island. He was a leader of the frogmen. He
(02:26):
was a reconnaissance guy. He was also a wildlife biologist
and author. And then later on in nineteen sixty two,
wrote a book called Wildlife Sketches Colon Near and Far
in which he detailed partially detailed the story of this
crocodile massacre.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah. And so he was a respected naturalist or respected
biologist by this time. And if he hadn't a been,
we probably wouldn't be talking about this story right now. Yeah, because,
like he said at the outsid is so fantastic that
it just defies sensibility. But because there was a respected naturalist,
(03:08):
Bruce Wright writing about this, it was picked up by
another scientist, a conservationist named Roger carus Or Karris, who
wrote a book a couple of years later called Dangerous
to Man. And even in his account of the Ramriy
Island massacre he says, like, if this had come from
somebody else, I would not be recounting it here. But
(03:31):
not only is Bruce Wright like very respected and a
trustworthy fellow, he was on Ramory Island when this happened.
So it happened.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, But here's the deal, and I said he detailed it,
Right did in his book. It wasn't that detailed. It
was only a paragraph, so it wasn't super robust. I
think the more robust account came from Karris's book. But
here's the deal is that Right was at Ramriy, but
he did not witness this happen. He apparently, we found
(04:03):
out later, had picked up on this story second hand
from some of his We said that he was, you know,
working with the British military, from some of those British
soldiers who are patrolling the island. So he picks up
that passage second hand. And in the book, if you
read his passage, he never even claims to have personally
witnessed it.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, can't touch this, that's right.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So that's another problem. We should probably talk a little
bit about the sea crocodiles though, huh? Or should we
take a break?
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I think we should take a break and come back.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
All right, we'll do that, and then she's you're gonna
hear so much about sea crocodiles you'll be crazy with it.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Okay, Chuck, we're back. We're talking about the saltwater crocodile
Crocodilus porosis poof also known as the esturine. Esturine right, esturine.
M I just keep saying the same version over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
I know how to say estuary, but esturine. Maybe that
is it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
It's got to be it. Crocodile. There's only one of
two crocodile species that will prey on humans. And one
reason they prey on humans is because we're basically like
a a piece of gum to the compared to their guys.
Sure an amuse bouche.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, they're big. They can get up to twenty three feet,
they can weigh a ton. They are, like you said,
they're pretty aggressive. Like you know, we've done stuff on
crocodiles and alligators even they're not super aggressive animals. But
these saltwater crocs are pretty territorial, and I think they've
done some stats. The most recent I found was twenty
(06:05):
fifteen seventy nine fatal saltwater crocodile attacks out of one
hundred and eighty in one year in Southeast Asia and
coastal India and Oceania.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So yeah, which is where they live, so basically throughout
the world. That's how many people were.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Attacked, Yeah, exactly, But seventy nine fatalities in a year
is a lot for you know, talking about eating by crocodile,
but when you talk about nine hundred men being eate,
like eaten overnight, that doesn't sound possible.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah. And there was a historian named Frank mclenn who
wrote a book on the Battle and the Pacific, specifically
on or the War in the Pacific is specifically the
battles in Burma, and he mentions this crocodile story and
he says that it quote offends every single canaan of
historical verifability.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Every single cannon.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Verifiability. What is going on?
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I don't know. You didn't say battle was specific there,
so I was kind of proud of.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
You, the Battle of Pisketti. Yeah, So Frank mclenn's onto something.
He's like, this doesn't even make sense, because seriously, by
this time, the story is that nine hundred Japanese soldiers
were eaten in a single horrific night in an island
off of Burma, in a mangrove swamp, and that the
(07:25):
British who were fighting them heard their horrific cries as
they perished. And finally, Frank mclan's like, this does not
make sense everybody, let's just stop and use our noodles
for a second.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, the whole thing starts to kind of fall apart.
First of all, that neither one of the official either
Japanese or British military records mentioned this at all, so
that's a big one. Second of all, they didn't lose
nine hundred soldiers there at Ramrey. Apparently there were a
couple of investigations and about five hundred of the original
(07:59):
one thousand did get out alive. So I went on
to five hundred, that would still be too many, And
so apparently they did more investigating. They talked to Burmese
villagers who were alive during that time. Some of them
were actually conscripted by the military of Japan, and they said,
you know, most of them actually died from disease and
(08:21):
dehydration and exposure, and if any were eaten, it may
have been like a dozen or so.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Which is still significant. I mean, like, if one hundred
and eighty for a year across the world and only
seventy nine are killed, a dozen in a couple of
weeks is pretty significant. The thing is, it's not like
this story is completely without merit. It's just it was
so ridiculously embellished that basically everybody's like, this isn't true,
(08:51):
but there's still Apparently were sounds, terrible sounds coming from
the Japanese soldiers that the British noticed. But there were
a couple of investigations into this. Herpetologist Stephen Platt investigated
in a national geographic show called Nazi World War Weird
also investigated, and I don't remember which one, but they
(09:14):
one of them looked into the British military records for
that battle, which again was weeks long, a single night
and on one particular night though February eighteenth, nineteen forty five,
which would coincide with the original story about the crocodile massacre,
the Allies were alerted by cries of Japanese soldiers, but
(09:34):
they weren't being attacked by crocodiles. They were drowning by
the dozens as they were trying to swim from Ramrie
Island to the Burmese mainland.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Equally as horrifying. But I also always thought, didn't we
even find out for research of drowning as a pretty
quiet affair.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Yes, So there were some other things that could have
accounted for this one. The British started mowing them down
with machine guns as they tried to swim away. That
was ultimately what accounted for the massacre at Ramree Island.
They were also being picked off by sharks and some
of them died as their boats were sinking. And if
(10:11):
your boat sinking, I'm sure that can probably get a
pretty good loud rise out of you.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Yeah, And I think the next day at daybreak, there
were crocodiles feeding on bodies and they were just obviously
there was a lot of you know, crocodile food there
all of a sudden, so there are a lot more
crocodiles in view, and so I think that it sort
of helped the story, or at least a legend build.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah. So if you take all that information, put it
into Bruce Wright, pick them up, shake them for a
little bit, turn them upside down, what pours out is
the Ramrie Island crocodile massacres story.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, So there you go, myth busted way to go.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Adam Short stuff out?
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Short stuff is that stuff you should know? Is a
production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
For more podcasts my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app
Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
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