March 13, 2024 • 11 mins
There’s an ingredient in Skittles and lots of other food that Dunkin Donuts stopped using it in their powdered donuts. Skittles said they were phasing it out too back in 2016 but still haven’t and now the lawsuits flow like The Spice.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck, Ben,
Dave gid Yo.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
All right. So this is one that is a little
frustrating because I found over the years, I think we
both agree that it's so hard sometimes to find follow
ups to legal matters. Like there's a lot of hay
made when a lawsuit is put out put out there
or introduced or whatever, but then it's always so hard
to find resolution. And we're talking about the fact that
(00:32):
in July twenty twenty two, a man in California filed
a lawsuit against Mars Incorporated because of skittles, and because
specifically an additive called titanium dioxide class action lawsuit that
has health risks. And I tried to find a follow
(00:52):
up and what I saw that that was dismissed.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Oh was it? I didn't see that.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
In November twenty two without prejudice, and that which means
a new lawsuit can happen. And another woman in summer
last year, in twenty twenty three, like a year later
again in California, has sued again, and I don't know
the status of that one.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
The reason they're picking on skittles in particular, it seems
like is because back in twenty sixteen, Skittle said to
the world, while I should say, Mars Zinc said to
the world, Hey, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore.
We're going to phase it out of our candies, specifically Skittles.
And here we are in twenty twenty four and Skittles
(01:32):
still has titanium dioxide. In fact, the candy makers or
food producers who use titanium dioxide in their products aren't
even required to list it as titanium dioxide. It's listed
as titanium dioxide, which I take to be a giant
f you to all the people who filed lawsuits against
(01:53):
Mars for that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What I don't get is why they would make some
big announcement about getting it out of their candy and
then keeping it there.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I don't know, but I'll bet the CEO that was
in charge during that period is no longer there.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I bet you're right.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
They were like, uh, we have bad news, like we
can't make Skittles without titanium dioxide.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And he said, what, so should we talk about titanium dioxide? Yes,
all right. Titanium is an element in the Earth's crust.
It is naturally occurring thing. Not anything unusual about titanium.
But when it reacts interacts with oxygen, rather, it forms
a white powder, a very fine white powder called titanium
(02:34):
dioxide that evidently is used as a whitening agent. Yes,
and a lot of processed foods. Not this is not
we're using skittles because there was a lawsuit. But this
stuff's in a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
It is. And the reason it's a whitening agent is
because it reflects light so well, specifically all types of light.
So it appears white, but it reflects it so well.
It's used as an ingredient in sunscreen, and it's used
as an ingredient kind of as sunscreen UV protected in
other stuff like makeup and toothpaste. Right, so it is everywhere.
(03:10):
The thing is is titanium dioxide. It's a naturally occurring thing.
Like you said, titanium is natural, So titanium dioxide it's
just what happens when titanium comes in contact with oxygen.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
The problem with it being used in the food industry
and personal care industry is that it's used in a
specific form as titanium dioxide nanoparticles, and we're talking like
nano nanoparticles. They're the little tiny particles of titanium dioxide
of appear in your food. Are about one hundred nanometers across.
(03:45):
Your hair is eighty thousand nanometers across. And because they're
so small, they can scatter light. Right, that's the appropriate
response to that. They can scale. The smaller they are,
the more effective they are at scattering lights. So that's
why they want to use those really tiny nanoparticles. But
the concern is because they're so small, it can go
(04:05):
to all sorts of different parts of your body, and
if it starts to accumulate, it can cause all sorts
of problems. That's the basis of that lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, they can get in the bloodstream. What I want
to know is what does that stuff do for a skittle.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I don't know, because it's not like Skittles is white?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
No white skittle?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
No, I think there actually is a white like special skittle,
like a limited edition, but this is used in regular skills. Yeah,
maybe it makes them reflective. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Okay, So we mentioned the nanoparticles. They can get the
blood stream. You said they can accumulate. They can accumulate
in your organs, which is pretty scary, especially, I mean
any organ but especially when you're talking about when of
your filtering mechanisms in your body, like your liver or
your kidney. If you're trying to filter things and more
bad things are going in, that's a problem.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, So we should say specifically, there is no pure
viewed evidence that nanoparticles of titanium dioxide migrate to your
liver or your kidneys, or that they accumulate there. There's
no evidence whatsoever, and that's what the Titanium Producers Association says.
They like to point that out. The Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers
(05:17):
Association website says there's nothing that says that food grade
titanium dioxide is harmful to human health. Just want to
put that out there everybody. That's what they say.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
But yees.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So it makes sense to be skeptical because while we're
talking about here are nothing but animal studies, almost exclusively
mouse studies, and they do cause damage in mice for sure,
and they have been shown to inflame tissues in humans
when inhaled. You're not inhaling titanium dioxide nanoparticles when you
(05:49):
eat skittles. But if you put everything together, yes, it's
good to be skeptical, but it's also good to be
aware of the concept of xenobiotics and their effect on
the human body, as well as the corporate history of
food manufacturers putting unsafe, harmful products in food long after
we've figured out like, no, this is probably a problem.
(06:12):
So it's it's good to use your brain. But also
you know, no, like there's no like smoking gun here
that says yes, titanium dioxide is going to wreck your
liver and give you cancer. That's just not there yet,
but it's it's possible enough that people are like, just
get that out of there. Who cares how extra white
you're You're well, you're not eating tide, but your your
(06:33):
colgate is you.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Just co o a, you did it both sides, co
o A. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
That explains why I feel faint.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
All right, we'll take a break. I'm gonna give Josh
some smelling salts and we'll be right back. As why
why sk tough?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
You should know, definitely should know.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I'm not childs of each.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Ski.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
All right, So you're probably wondering, well, we have an FDA.
What do they say about all this? Oh?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, they're great.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
The FDA says that, uh, titanium dioxide is a food
addits of the food. Great stuff doesn't exceed. If it
doesn't exceed one percent of the food's weight, then it's
all fine and dandy. However, there are companies and nations
and continents that are getting rid of this stuff. In
twenty fifteen, Dunkin Donuts said, you know what, we're gonna
(07:37):
use titanium dioxide anymore. Uh, and our powdered tuggar toppings.
The EU, of course, they're always first in line saying
we don't need that stuff. Let's just get rid of it,
let's pan it.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
They are always a person in line saying that can
harm people who we care about.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, exactly, dang socialists, nanny state. So, uh, you mentioned
that the Titanic, you know, big titanium dioxide is like, hey,
you guys don't need to worry about this. It's in
such small levels, it's not a big deal. And like,
you know, you'd have to be a real small kid
to really get the worst effect. Like, oh, I don't
know kids who eat skitt holes.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Right, Yeah, that's a big one. So the Environmental Working
Group released a paper a little while ago that said
that this stuff is in thousands of children's sweets, is
an ingredient. And yeah, if you're small, if this stuff
does accumulate at all, the smaller the body, the more
impact that accumulation's probably going to have. And it has
(08:38):
been shown to make it through the gut, like it
does make it into the body beyond just your digestive system.
But as the Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association points out, food
grade titanium or yeah, food grade titanium dioxide called E
one seven to one. Uh, it can't have more than
(08:59):
four of titanium dioxide to it in the nanoparticles, I
should say, and that I guess poison dot Org, which
is the National Poison Control Center's website, said that.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I thought that was the band's website. Is that not right?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
No, there's this poison. So the National Poison Control Center
says that one tenth of one percent of the titanium
dioxide that is in your food stuff, which is just
one percent of the food by weight, So a very
very tiny fraction passes through the gut and makes it
(09:34):
into the rest of your body. So there's just just
again two ways of looking at this. It does get
out of your gut and into the rest of your body,
where it may accumulate if you enough skittles or starbursts
or something like that. But there's no studies yet that
show that it actually causes any harm.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
My whole deal is like, just why just don't put
it in there and no one will ever notice or care.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Frankly, if don't Donuts can do without it for their
powdered donuts, then you can do it for skittles, because
there's I genuinely don't understand why it's in there. I
saw one place where it's used as a flavor enhancer.
Everyone else says it's a color enhancer, so maybe it
has something to do with the flavor of skittles. I
(10:19):
don't know. I also saw that if it is used
as a flavor enhancer, it's mustard, and I don't remember
any mustard flavored skittles.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Gross.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
That could be pretty gross. It could also be great.
I haven't decided yet, but yeah, I'm with you. I
don't understand why it has to be in there anything, Like.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I think it's one of those things where no consumer
would notice. And of course I say that, and then
a bag of skittles comes out like a like a solid,
weird lump, like a pebbly brick, right with hair.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Growing on it?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Like, what the hell is this? Yeah, I mean I
don't need skittles anyway. And Ruby didn't eat a lot
of candy. Uh, it's weird.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, I've always like candy. I like fruit candy, I
like chocolate candy. I do like skittles. I love star bursts.
They have it in there too, So yeah, I mean
I'm probably riddled with with titanium dioxide.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think you'll be right.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
You got anything else?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I got nothing else?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Okay, Well, then we're done talking about titanium dioxide for now,
and short stuff is out.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You Know.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, There's Chuck, Ben,
Dave gid Yo.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
All right. So this is one that is a little
frustrating because I found over the years, I think we
both agree that it's so hard sometimes to find follow
ups to legal matters. Like there's a lot of hay
made when a lawsuit is put out put out there
or introduced or whatever, but then it's always so hard
to find resolution. And we're talking about the fact that
(00:32):
in July twenty twenty two, a man in California filed
a lawsuit against Mars Incorporated because of skittles, and because
specifically an additive called titanium dioxide class action lawsuit that
has health risks. And I tried to find a follow
(00:52):
up and what I saw that that was dismissed.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Oh was it? I didn't see that.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
In November twenty two without prejudice, and that which means
a new lawsuit can happen. And another woman in summer
last year, in twenty twenty three, like a year later
again in California, has sued again, and I don't know
the status of that one.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
The reason they're picking on skittles in particular, it seems
like is because back in twenty sixteen, Skittle said to
the world, while I should say, Mars Zinc said to
the world, Hey, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore.
We're going to phase it out of our candies, specifically Skittles.
And here we are in twenty twenty four and Skittles
(01:32):
still has titanium dioxide. In fact, the candy makers or
food producers who use titanium dioxide in their products aren't
even required to list it as titanium dioxide. It's listed
as titanium dioxide, which I take to be a giant
f you to all the people who filed lawsuits against
(01:53):
Mars for that.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
What I don't get is why they would make some
big announcement about getting it out of their candy and
then keeping it there.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I don't know, but I'll bet the CEO that was
in charge during that period is no longer there.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I bet you're right.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
They were like, uh, we have bad news, like we
can't make Skittles without titanium dioxide.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And he said, what, so should we talk about titanium dioxide? Yes,
all right. Titanium is an element in the Earth's crust.
It is naturally occurring thing. Not anything unusual about titanium.
But when it reacts interacts with oxygen, rather, it forms
a white powder, a very fine white powder called titanium
(02:34):
dioxide that evidently is used as a whitening agent. Yes,
and a lot of processed foods. Not this is not
we're using skittles because there was a lawsuit. But this
stuff's in a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
It is. And the reason it's a whitening agent is
because it reflects light so well, specifically all types of light.
So it appears white, but it reflects it so well.
It's used as an ingredient in sunscreen, and it's used
as an ingredient kind of as sunscreen UV protected in
other stuff like makeup and toothpaste. Right, so it is everywhere.
(03:10):
The thing is is titanium dioxide. It's a naturally occurring thing.
Like you said, titanium is natural, So titanium dioxide it's
just what happens when titanium comes in contact with oxygen.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Right.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
The problem with it being used in the food industry
and personal care industry is that it's used in a
specific form as titanium dioxide nanoparticles, and we're talking like
nano nanoparticles. They're the little tiny particles of titanium dioxide
of appear in your food. Are about one hundred nanometers across.
(03:45):
Your hair is eighty thousand nanometers across. And because they're
so small, they can scatter light. Right, that's the appropriate
response to that. They can scale. The smaller they are,
the more effective they are at scattering lights. So that's
why they want to use those really tiny nanoparticles. But
the concern is because they're so small, it can go
(04:05):
to all sorts of different parts of your body, and
if it starts to accumulate, it can cause all sorts
of problems. That's the basis of that lawsuit.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, they can get in the bloodstream. What I want
to know is what does that stuff do for a skittle.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I don't know, because it's not like Skittles is white?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
No white skittle?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
No, I think there actually is a white like special skittle,
like a limited edition, but this is used in regular skills. Yeah,
maybe it makes them reflective. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Okay, So we mentioned the nanoparticles. They can get the
blood stream. You said they can accumulate. They can accumulate
in your organs, which is pretty scary, especially, I mean
any organ but especially when you're talking about when of
your filtering mechanisms in your body, like your liver or
your kidney. If you're trying to filter things and more
bad things are going in, that's a problem.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, So we should say specifically, there is no pure
viewed evidence that nanoparticles of titanium dioxide migrate to your
liver or your kidneys, or that they accumulate there. There's
no evidence whatsoever, and that's what the Titanium Producers Association says.
They like to point that out. The Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers
(05:17):
Association website says there's nothing that says that food grade
titanium dioxide is harmful to human health. Just want to
put that out there everybody. That's what they say.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
But yees.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
So it makes sense to be skeptical because while we're
talking about here are nothing but animal studies, almost exclusively
mouse studies, and they do cause damage in mice for sure,
and they have been shown to inflame tissues in humans
when inhaled. You're not inhaling titanium dioxide nanoparticles when you
(05:49):
eat skittles. But if you put everything together, yes, it's
good to be skeptical, but it's also good to be
aware of the concept of xenobiotics and their effect on
the human body, as well as the corporate history of
food manufacturers putting unsafe, harmful products in food long after
we've figured out like, no, this is probably a problem.
(06:12):
So it's it's good to use your brain. But also
you know, no, like there's no like smoking gun here
that says yes, titanium dioxide is going to wreck your
liver and give you cancer. That's just not there yet,
but it's it's possible enough that people are like, just
get that out of there. Who cares how extra white
you're You're well, you're not eating tide, but your your
(06:33):
colgate is you.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Just co o a, you did it both sides, co
o A. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
That explains why I feel faint.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
All right, we'll take a break. I'm gonna give Josh
some smelling salts and we'll be right back. As why
why sk tough?
Speaker 1 (06:54):
You should know, definitely should know.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
I'm not childs of each.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
Ski.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
All right, So you're probably wondering, well, we have an FDA.
What do they say about all this? Oh?
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, they're great.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
The FDA says that, uh, titanium dioxide is a food
addits of the food. Great stuff doesn't exceed. If it
doesn't exceed one percent of the food's weight, then it's
all fine and dandy. However, there are companies and nations
and continents that are getting rid of this stuff. In
twenty fifteen, Dunkin Donuts said, you know what, we're gonna
(07:37):
use titanium dioxide anymore. Uh, and our powdered tuggar toppings.
The EU, of course, they're always first in line saying
we don't need that stuff. Let's just get rid of it,
let's pan it.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
They are always a person in line saying that can
harm people who we care about.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Yeah, exactly, dang socialists, nanny state. So, uh, you mentioned
that the Titanic, you know, big titanium dioxide is like, hey,
you guys don't need to worry about this. It's in
such small levels, it's not a big deal. And like,
you know, you'd have to be a real small kid
to really get the worst effect. Like, oh, I don't
know kids who eat skitt holes.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Right, Yeah, that's a big one. So the Environmental Working
Group released a paper a little while ago that said
that this stuff is in thousands of children's sweets, is
an ingredient. And yeah, if you're small, if this stuff
does accumulate at all, the smaller the body, the more
impact that accumulation's probably going to have. And it has
(08:38):
been shown to make it through the gut, like it
does make it into the body beyond just your digestive system.
But as the Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association points out, food
grade titanium or yeah, food grade titanium dioxide called E
one seven to one. Uh, it can't have more than
(08:59):
four of titanium dioxide to it in the nanoparticles, I
should say, and that I guess poison dot Org, which
is the National Poison Control Center's website, said that.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
I thought that was the band's website. Is that not right?
Speaker 1 (09:14):
No, there's this poison. So the National Poison Control Center
says that one tenth of one percent of the titanium
dioxide that is in your food stuff, which is just
one percent of the food by weight, So a very
very tiny fraction passes through the gut and makes it
(09:34):
into the rest of your body. So there's just just
again two ways of looking at this. It does get
out of your gut and into the rest of your body,
where it may accumulate if you enough skittles or starbursts
or something like that. But there's no studies yet that
show that it actually causes any harm.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
My whole deal is like, just why just don't put
it in there and no one will ever notice or care.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Frankly, if don't Donuts can do without it for their
powdered donuts, then you can do it for skittles, because
there's I genuinely don't understand why it's in there. I
saw one place where it's used as a flavor enhancer.
Everyone else says it's a color enhancer, so maybe it
has something to do with the flavor of skittles. I
(10:19):
don't know. I also saw that if it is used
as a flavor enhancer, it's mustard, and I don't remember
any mustard flavored skittles.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Gross.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
That could be pretty gross. It could also be great.
I haven't decided yet, but yeah, I'm with you. I
don't understand why it has to be in there anything, Like.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I think it's one of those things where no consumer
would notice. And of course I say that, and then
a bag of skittles comes out like a like a solid,
weird lump, like a pebbly brick, right with hair.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
Growing on it?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Like, what the hell is this? Yeah, I mean I
don't need skittles anyway. And Ruby didn't eat a lot
of candy. Uh, it's weird.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, I've always like candy. I like fruit candy, I
like chocolate candy. I do like skittles. I love star bursts.
They have it in there too, So yeah, I mean
I'm probably riddled with with titanium dioxide.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think you'll be right.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
You got anything else?
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I got nothing else?
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Okay, Well, then we're done talking about titanium dioxide for now,
and short stuff is out.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
You Know.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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