June 16, 2018 • 46 mins
When the Visigoths ruled Spain, they introduced the idea of battling bulls at festivals. Today matadors get paid $100,000 and perform in front of 50,000 fans. But is bullfighting an antiquated, abusive relic or a cultural tradition above reproach?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, chuck here. I'm a little sleepy because it's
Saturday morning. You know what that means. It's time for
another classic episode. Stuff you Should Know selects this one.
It's from a third two thousand two, How Bullfighting Works,
And you know what, Honestly, I picked this one because
I just wanted to, uh, to go to people further.
(00:21):
I came out. We usually try and keep things fairly neutral,
but I came out hard against bull fighting on this
because it is barbaric and awful, and uh, I don't
apologize for that. So I'm gonna puff my chest up
and republish this one right now. I don't care about
the tradition. I don't care about any of that. I
just want people to stop bull fighting. So we get
(00:44):
into the history of it and all that. And I
think Josh was a little more neutral than I was,
if I remember correctly, But uh yeah, I'm not into it.
So go ahead and send your hate emails now if
you want, or emails of support. Here we go How
Bull Fighting Works all over again. Welcome to Stuff you
(01:10):
Should Know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hi, and
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as
always is Charles W. Chuck Bryant, hol A, Chuck Hola,
hola right back at you. Um, how are you doing?
(01:30):
I'm great? How are you? I'm doing pretty good? Yeah. Yeah,
I've been learning a lot about bull volume lately. I
don't know if you know you mean bull killing. Bull
fighting is what it's cultured. It's not what I call it.
Or you could also call it a cardido corda boy,
Here we go, Corrida. Have you ever been to Spain? No?
(01:52):
Have you? Yeah? Where I've been to? Uh and in
um Tulsa de Mar, which is uh little coastal town
near Barcelona there on the coastal Brava very nice. Have
you been to Okay? Yeah, very Have you seen a
(02:12):
bull fight? No, I would not I would not do that, sir,
I have seen a bull fight. And um, to offend
you even further, not only was it a bullfight, it
started off with a cock fight. It was in Cancoon.
I saw it with my sister and my dad, and um,
it was crazy because we were we were there and
(02:33):
it was a bullfight like it wasn't like you could
have accidentally walked into this thing like it was a bullfight. Um,
and I would say of the people, there were um, white,
probably American tourists, who booed and yelled and shouted things
the whole time. And I remember thinking of that one
(02:57):
Simpsons where UM Lisa was having a nightmare about being
second chairs for saxophone in the school band, and um,
at the concert, everybody was booing and she wakes up
and thinks, like, why would everybody come just to boo?
It was exactly like that. People came just to boo
to bullfight. Well, that is one h people who who
(03:19):
say bullfighting is not good, of which I'm one of them,
say that that's one of the only reasons bull fights
are still even going on is because of tourists. That
they're the ones buying the tickets. And many times those
tourists get there and they're horrified and they leave early
and think, Wow, what to spend? Yeah, no, no refunds,
(03:40):
No exactly, So you just funded bullfighting, yeah exactly, sucker. Um.
A couple of quick stats, oh, roughly to between two
hundred and two hundred and fifty thousand bulls are killed
each year from bull fights from bull fights, and UM,
I'm not sure if this is accurate, but the number
I got was it? Fifty two matadors have been killed since.
(04:06):
I'm surprised it's that few. Have you heard of Julio Aparchio?
I know if you have a very strong constitution, Uncle
Josh warns you against this one. Yeah, yeah, I saw it.
Holy cow. It was almost like, how is that not photoshop?
(04:26):
It was perfect? The horns so Julio Apariccio was he
fell down and bull got the best of him, gored
him with his with its horns, with his horns because
bulls of boy, um and what a boy huh, and
gord him under his chin and it threw his through
(04:48):
his neck and then the horn came out of his
mouth perfectly, and um a guy from getting him. It
just got a close up of it, like like fifty
of them. There video of it. It's it's amazing. I
haven't seen the video. It's on the YouTube and it's
one of those that's so awful that you have to
like sign in and verify your age before you watch it.
(05:10):
And I would do not advise people to watch this.
I don't even advise you to see the too. Look
at the Daily Mail article that has it, but it's
pretty crazy. But yes, it happens, and I'm surprised that
only how many fifties seven? The stat I got was
fifty two in the last you know, three hundred plus years. Um.
So there's not much of a fight going on. And
matador is actually Spanish for killer, so is it really um, yes,
(05:35):
they're killer bulls for sure. It's the whole point, Like
there's really no gray area here, like bullfighting is the
the purpose of it is to kill the bull. Yeah,
under certain conditions or um, within a certain framework. But
that's the point of bullfighting. It's not anything but that.
And if the matador fails to kill the bull, that's
on him and it is a huge disgrace, like that's
(05:58):
a that's a loss, and it's not very good right. Um,
But I I start I'm starting to suspect that you
are a post bullfighting. Um. There are a lot of
people and apparently Spain's um. I mean in Spain, it's
like a natural cultural thing. It's been around for a while,
(06:20):
and even people who feel the same way you do
still say I still don't think it should be illegal.
It's just too much a part of our tradition. Not
everyone feels that way though, No, definitely not. They did
a gallop pole in two thousand ten, and seventy of
Spaniards said that they were ready to do away with it.
Oh yeah, that's a lot of Spaniards. And that's up
from like fifteen years earlier. So in this modern day
(06:44):
people are starting to think twice about it. Well, let's
let's talk about this, Chuck, let's talk about how how
long people have been fighting bulls on the Iberian Peninsula.
We don't know, Fox show, but um, there is evidence
of bull ritual dating back all the way to b C. Yeah.
The Mycenaeans apparently used to leap over bulls that were charging.
(07:07):
It was like a thing, and they were always revered,
you know, as like these godlike creatures, which is why
I guess they want to kill him. What. Yeah, what's
the taurus? One? Taurus? Is that the Is that an
astrological sign? Yeah? Okay, yeah, of course, pretty ancient. Yeah. Uh.
The article points out that the Visigoth rule Um of
(07:28):
the Iberian Peninsula from fourteen fifteen to seven eleven UM No.
Four fifteen four fifteen to seven eleven UM had men
on horseback fighting bulls um, which evolved into mounted bullfighting,
which uh jonnel, which still exists in Portugal horseback bullfighting,
(07:50):
where they kill the bull outside the ring. Later on, right,
they weaken it to a certain point, which is the
equivalent of killing the bull is far. I guess there's
some point of no return that the Portuguese understand and
they're like, okay, well we're done, come outside, and then
that's that. But as anybody who's opposed bullfighting will tell you,
(08:11):
that's not any more humane. Of course not. It's just
out of sight of the spectators. Um. So yeah, you've
got what is it? Ray hoo ray jono jo um.
And then uh. Bull fighting itself as we understand it today,
was firmly established in Spain by the eleventh century UM,
(08:33):
and it came about during festivals, specifically one festival called
the Fiesta descind Ferminton and anybody's been to Pampalona will
recognize that because that's where the running of the bulls
takes place. And when in July now so I seven
when it used to be September, and then in the
sixteenth century they moved it to July, and ever since
(08:56):
then the running of the bulls has been held. But
it's been going on since long before that, And it
actually started with a bunch of um ranchers and their
kids moving the bulls from like their pens to about
a half a mile to the arena. UM. And then
people started running alongside him, and counting evolved into the
running of the bulls. Now interesting else, said the Spanish
(09:18):
military leader uh midd eleventh century. He was one of
the first to actually bring it into the arena and
make it the sanctioned corrida, which was government sanctioned is
today at least what was back then imagined financially supported
by governments to fifteenth century. It was a big part
(09:39):
of the aristocracy until Queen Isabella came along and said
this is not cool. I don't know why she was
against it, probably because she was an animal lover. I
would say that's probably a good idea. And Pope Pious
UM five almost said v uh. He banned it, but
(10:00):
didn't last very long, um only about eight years, because
people were into it pretty pretty big time, right um.
And then in about the I guess in the six
hundred is when that that whole divergence between horseback and
foot bull foot bull fighting took place, and it remained. Um.
The sport of the aristocracy until Philip the came along
(10:25):
and he said, you know what, this is barbaric. You
would have to be a low class barbarian to engage
in bullfighting. So if you remember my court and you
get caught doing this, I'll shoot you in the knee.
And the aristocracy said, well, we want our knees intact,
so we're gonna stop doing this. And at this point
bullfighting transferred from a kind of high flutant, snooty pastime
(10:50):
to the the um, the pastime of the people, the
national sport of the Spanish people, and from that point
on it's it's stayed that way. Yeah, but they they
The author does point out that there are arenas in
Spain that still have the royal boxes for the royal
family right to attend these things, so it hasn't gone
(11:10):
away completely as far as that goes. So Spain is
the heart and life center of um bull fighting, but
there's other places that it's held. Obviously, I saw him
in cancun Um, and if you're a bullfighter, you can
follow the season pretty much year round and get work
if you're good. They have in France. Did you know that?
(11:32):
I didn't, But I saw that it's been It was
banned in the UK. Had no idea anybody was fighting
bulls and going on in Germany was going on all
over the place. It's crazy. But that doesn't make sense
that it would happen in Germany if the Visigoths are
the ones who introduced it to the Iberian Peninsula because
they were Germanic people from south of the south Norway
(11:53):
will call you south Way. I don't think the Goths. Uh.
So we'll walk you through what happens in a in
a corrida um in this whitewashed article version. But um,
before this ever happens, we'll walk you through the couple
of days before the bull even gets to the ring. Oh,
(12:16):
this is a special treat for me. It is the
bull Um is not an aggressive animal at all. Bull
likes to hang around and chew grass and uh smell flowers.
That sounds like bullfighting propaganda to me. No, Ferdinand, the
bull it's like a sweet creature. But they actually are
not aggressive. They're only um going to charge somebody if
they're threatened and angry, which is what bullfighting is all about. Um. So,
(12:41):
in the two days prior to the bull showing up
at the arena. They are abused. Um, they are uh
basically mentally destroyed versions of what a bull should be.
But there you're fat bull. While they do fatten him
up to make them slow. Well, that's problem, and you
can call somebody out for that. Okay. Um. They have
(13:06):
wet newspaper stuffed in their ears so they can't hear anything.
They have vasoline rubbed on their eyes so their visions blurred.
They have their eyes taped open so they can't sleep. Uh.
They stuff cotton up their nostrils so they can't breathe
very well, and they stick and needle through their genitals. That'll,
that'll take anybody off. They rubbed this caustic solution on
(13:27):
their legs, which makes the bull not be able to
balance and uh keeps the bull from lying down. Ever.
They strap their horns to the ceiling of their transport
truck ah to take them on their long hot journey
to wherever they're going. And for the two days before
they keep them in a in a box. Oh wait,
(13:48):
I'm sorry, that's not all. They give them drugs to
either pep them up or slow them down, just to
keep them in whatever state they want them in. And
give them laxatives, uh to just sleep make things even
more uncomfortable. Um. Then they put the bull in the
in this dark box for two days, uh to disorient
(14:08):
the bull. Finally, when they opened the box, there's a
light at the end of the tunnel that the bull thinks,
my god, I'm finally getting out of here. Runs to
the light and all of a sudden they're in a
bull ring, right, And there's trumpets and fanfare and people cheering, um,
and the bulls like, oh cool, how's how's it? Hey?
How are you all doing? I've been through some rough
(14:30):
times lately. Um. Some of that stuff, I think if
you were found out, you would be disqualified immediately, especially
doing stuff that slowed the bull down or made it
less dangerous. Yes, the bull ring is a ring for
a reason. Um. Bulls would want to go try and
hide in a corner, but the ring, the circular ring,
(14:52):
will confuse in a bull to where it can't hide anywhere.
Have you ever seen that footage of that bull that
like makes it up into the hands, like jumps up
and then is into the stands like on top of people.
It was crazy? Was that bull run our test? No?
Do you get that joke. Okay. So the different acts
I believe are called tercios, Yes, I believe so. And
(15:16):
there's three of them, right, Yes, there's three of them,
and the that's three acts in a fight in a cardido, yes,
in a bull fight. Yeah, and um there's no suspense
going on either by the way they all go down
the same way. I bet it's suspenseful for the bull. Um.
So the bull comes out the first act or what? Uh? Yeah?
(15:41):
Act one? Okay. In act one there are um guys
called peka doors and they're mounted on horseback and they
are basically, um, I guess, low level torreros or bullfighters
because both. A matador is not the only kind of bullfighter.
He is cream of the crop, pinnacle of bullfighters, the
(16:03):
well paid rock star. Yes, um, but he works with
a crew of pika doors who show up in the
first act and bandilli aros who show up in the
second act. But the pika doors what they do is
they lance the bowl between his shoulder blades around his
neck muscles. And the whole point of this chuck You'll
love this one is to weaken the neck muscles so
(16:26):
that the bull's head hangs so that the matador can
get to its heart more easily. Yeah. It also hits
a gland in the neck that releases adrenaline. Apparently. Um
So they lanced the bull three times and twist the
blade around to ensure maximum blood loss. Um. Three matadors
(16:47):
will now come in. They will fight individually later on,
but they all come in at first in the first
act with their capes. And this is and for the
for the bull fight, it's an afternoon of them. There's
six bulls and three matadors in each mattador fights two
bulls and each bull fight takes about fifteen and twenty minutes,
yes roughly. Um So they come in with their little
(17:07):
capes and uh do their little maneuvers to draw attention
away from the pika doors. And the pika doors go
and hide behind their little walls. They have these interior
walls that they can hide behind. Whenever the bull starts
to get too dangerous, they run and high behind these walls. Yes,
or if this or America, the Pika doors would be
(17:28):
dressed as clowns and would hide in barrels. Look at rodeo. Yeah,
it will do a rodeo podcast at some point. Do
we have to not sure, okay, they don't. I don't
think they kill the cows and rodeos. No, okay. Um,
So the pika doors leave the ring. The matadors leave
the ring at two begins in the bandel yarros. I
(17:50):
know that's a tough one. Yeah, they come in. They're
they're basically bullfighters, assistant bullfighters, but they're on foot. Yes,
and if you've ever seen a bullfighter picture of a
bull fight, bulls seem to have some um crepe barbed
sticking out of him. That's the bandelierros work. Yes, and
that is called a bandias and it's a barbed dart.
(18:16):
It's adorned colorfully. The bulls aren't the only things dying
in this episode, so was the Spanish language, because we
are butchering it. I'm trying uh this of course, further
weekends the bull um so the mighty Matador doesn't have
much work to do. So the bull is still dangerous.
Um are They run in circles at this point to
(18:37):
to get it nice and dizzy and confused. The manador
comes out for the final act and he has ten
ten official minutes to kill the bull. Well to do
a little showing off first and then kill the bull.
Um after the ten minute warring. After the ten minutes,
he gets in a viso, which is a warning first warning.
(18:57):
After three minutes he gets another one, and then he
gets a third one, so he has a total of
in actuality fifteen minutes to kill the bull or else
the bull is let out alive and the metadors disgraced.
But for the most part, the matador is going to
dispatch the bull, and um, he does it if he
first starts using the cape and the cape is always
held in the left hand. Is it? That's all right handed? Dudes?
(19:19):
I did not. I was looking, and I could even
tell that they were. Um there, the cape was kind
of clumsy held in the left hand. They were still
holding it in the left hand. Well, the guys I
saw were practicing, so maybe I don't know, but I
don't see why they would practice with their right hand.
I don't either. Okay, But you have a cape in
one hand, you have a sword in the other. Yes,
and the point of the cape. By the way, we
(19:41):
should probably get to this now. Um, cape is always
red because red Anger's bulls right true balls are color blind,
so they're not angered by red or any other color.
What does get them going is the movement of the
cape and sticking uh swords in their neck. That's another
thing that gets them going. Um. And actually that's not
(20:02):
necessarily true. By the time the manador comes out, sometimes
the um the bowl is really tired from blood loss
and being tortured for a couple of days apparently, um.
And so the manador really kind of has to work
to get it riled up again. And even though the
bulls just like, just kill me, manador is like, not yet,
we have a crowd to please first, So um the
(20:25):
the manador eventually after the cape work is done. Um.
Oh the cape is read by the way to high bloodstains. Um.
Once the cape work is done, the manador will um
as the bull runs past him, will plunge the sword
in between his shoulder blades and what's called a estoccata,
(20:45):
which is the death blow and uh it properly delivered
estocata will sever the bulls a order and that will
be that almost immediately for the bull. If it's not
done correctly, then the bull can be in even more
tremendous pain as it bleeds out. But to protect against this,
a bandeliero will come out and uh immediately deliver any
(21:09):
any another thrust of a blade to make sure the
bull is dead with a puntilla a smaller knife. UM.
Ideally they killed them with one blow. That rarely happens
because apparently matadors aren't so great at doing that anymore.
I don't know if they ever were. And uh, a
lot of times the bull lives even through the smaller
(21:31):
knife plunge and is still alive when the ears and
tail or hoof or cut off and presented to the matador.
Usually there's a there's another fail safe um where they
just bring out a tractor and run the bull over
a bunch of times to make sure that it's it's
so nice. And if that doesn't work, then they the
(21:52):
people come down from the stands and just start shooting it.
That's not true, and it's not funny. It's not funny
because it's not true. And oftentimes do survive hanging on
by a thread. Their lungs are punctured, so they're bleeding,
like drowning in their own blood and like vomiting up
blood through their nose and mouth like a whale dying
(22:13):
and flurry. Uh. And sometimes they will take it outside
and skin it while it's even still alive. Yeah, that's
a kind of a tradition. Um. I saw the bull
after the bullfight. It was pretty sad. Um. They take
the bull right outside and um they'll dress it and
then sell the meat at the stadium. Um, which is
(22:34):
customary and very strange, but that's one of the aspects
of bullfighting. If you've ever wanted a bull burger and
you wanted to eat it right after you saw a die,
go to a bullfight in Spain. Uh, they will drag
the bull out with some mules attached to chains. And UM.
I don't know if the booing booing you heard, because
(22:56):
apparently the people will boo and throw beer cans at
the bull at the end. I don't know if that's
what you were. It depends, So it depends. Um no, no, no, no,
that's this was. They were booing the matador, the banliros,
the doors, everybody. They were booing the whole country of
Mexico for this. Um. Yeah they're booing everybody. No. Um,
(23:17):
it depends on the bull. If the bull was um
a woss, then I could see the fans throwing beer
cans at it. There's also um that an aspect of
this that cannot be denying that a bull that shows
great bravery, anger, um, spirit, spunk really tries to kill
the matador or the bandili arros will be very much
(23:39):
revered by the people in the stands and gruesomely UM.
They'll bring it out for a victory lap, being dragged
by the mules in a circle around the arena. After
it's dead, or apparently while it's still dying, people will
cheer it, throw roses for it. Um. And there's a
there's a a UM. There's a rule where the crowd
(24:01):
or the manador can ask for an uh indolito, which
is a reprieve for a particularly courageous bull, and the
president of the of the bullfight, the referee can say, yes,
I give this bull of reprieve because it's such an
awesome bowl. We're gonna let it live. And the manador
proceeds to um with an empty hand simulate the death blow,
(24:23):
saying I could have killed the bull, but I like
the bull so much I lobbied to get it released.
That bull is taken away and UM put out the
stud for the rest of its life. And there was one.
It's very rare to get an indulto. Um. And there
was one one bull called Manzanito in seven he got
(24:45):
an indulto because he gored all three manadors in the
plaza that day. Wow. That that that will get you
off right there. You get to go stud for the
rest of your life. Mr. Bull. Horses are also abused.
The ones that participate, uh, their ears are stuffed with newspaper,
wet newspaper. They're blindfolded, and they sever their vocal cords
(25:05):
so they can't scream out in pain because people don't
want to hear that. They don't want to scream. Yeah,
people don't like that, So they sever the vocal cords.
So the horses that are, you know, trembling in fear
inside this ring at this bowl, don't bark out and
let people know that. And if the horses are hurt,
they take them out of the ring and patch them
(25:26):
up and send them right back in there. Where are
you getting this activist info all over the place? Yeah?
Oh yeah, okay, I mean it's not activist info, it's
how it goes down. No, it all just kind of
has a certain ring to it. I'm not disputing it.
I'm just saying like, yeah, well I mean coming out
of my mouth, it probably sounds activist because I think
it's an awful thing to do something like this. But
(25:48):
this is the these is the facts. UM. Okay, Well
in check you will love the next part wherein we
talk about famous manadors. Yeah, I feel free. So uh.
(26:13):
People have been doing this since what we said, like
the eleventh century, right, Elsid was supposedly the first guy
to fight a bull in a arena, UM, and since
then it's it's just become huge, big business. UM. But
the first real and probably only real Golden age if
(26:33):
you call it that, bullfighting happened UM from nineteen fourteen
and nine, and there were two matadors, Juan belmonte Garcia
and Jose Gomez, who fought bulls under the name Joslite.
Though UM had a rivalry and Um. Belmonte Garcia was
(26:54):
actually the first guy apparently to stand still or stand
his ground when he was in cape work with a bull,
rather than try to run away from the bull using
fancy footwork that erect style. Jsalito was his rival, and
the rivalry was really going swimmingly, I guess for everybody
(27:15):
but the bulls, until Hosalito was fatally gored Um at
a match that both of them were at Garcia and
Hosalito were fighting at um In and that end of
the Golden age of bullfighting. You'll be happy to hear.
He must have been small. Hosalito. Yeah, his name is Jose,
and I think if you're Jose and they call you Hosalito,
(27:36):
that means you're small, like add that eto to anything
alito or young because he started very young. Oh yeah,
maybe that's true. He started at age thirteen, um and
he was only I think twenty twenty five when he
died when he was gored So. Uh. Another guy who's
gorgeous named Manuel Rodriguez E Sanchez. Do you think that's
(27:58):
like the mothers and the father's names when it's two
last names and there's an e in and in the middle.
I don't know. I would think so. And well, Rodriguez
in Sanchez. You put the Rodriguez together and the Sanchez
is together and you get Manuel also known as Menolette.
Maybe so. And he was gordon In. He was the
(28:20):
top matador from nineteen forty to ninety seven, and I
think is goring In the end of his being the
top matador was not coincidental. I think you're probably right. Uh,
should we talk about the bulls because it's very specific
what kind of bulls are fighting. They're all four years old,
which I didn't know. I didn't either, Um, and they
(28:41):
are specifically bred to bull fight, and they way about
thirteen hundred pounds. You want to translate that niquilos for
our friends, it's five ninety kilograms, right, And um, they
are bread and ranches. And this article says that they
are tested for bravery and ferocity and that if you
pass that test, you would become a fighting bull. Um.
(29:05):
And that may be true sometimes, but uh, matadors like
to make their money and they don't want to be gored,
So the high falutin matadors will request very placid, docile
bulls just to keep the show going. Is that true?
Well that's what that's what I read. Okay, So have
they just want to put on the show? You know,
(29:26):
they don't want to die? Well, I'm sure they don't
w want to make They want to make a few
million bucks a year. Ye doing it easy too, because
they get paid about a hundred grand a bullfight and
they can do maybe thirty to forty or more. Yeah,
I know the um oh the guy Bell monteh he
had a record hundred and nine bullfights in It's a lot.
(29:49):
It's like in Rocky three when he was fighting all
the chumps just for a pay day. Oh yeah, he
didn't want any real challenge. But ultimately he did want
a real challenge because he fights. He fought Draco, well,
he fought cluver Lang and three and three it was
the Russian. Oh no, no, ye. Three was clever Lane. No. Yeah.
The first two were Apollo, the third was cluver Lane,
(30:11):
the fourth was the Russian. I thought that he was uh,
Tommy Morrison. And then the sixth was when he came
back as a trainer, huh. And the seventh was him
enjoying a nice sandwich for two hours. No, Rocky three
was definitely clever Lane, because that was my favorite one
until I got older and I realized that the first
(30:31):
one was actually the better one. You know. I thought
that I would think that too, and then I went
back and watched it as an adult, and I'm like,
I mean, it's pretty good, but oh man, I loved it.
There's just too much character development in it for a
Rocky movie. Well, it was a love story it wasn't
even a boxing movie. Wrong with you, I understand, but
it was a love story starring and written and directed
(30:51):
by Sylvester Stallone. That's right, all right. Back to the bulls.
Bulls are never exposed to more than one fight. Yes,
apparently they have very good memories, so they learn how
to out dual the the matador in their in their cape.
So that's why they don't bite them twice. And the
guys who test their ferocity for I guess the ones
(31:12):
that are tested, those are done on horseback, so that
the bull is not like, oh I remember those capes.
I'm gonna get you. I associate you with laxatives. Well,
even this article says that they they alter bulls to
make them easier to fight. But this is what I'm saying.
It's so um it's a very participatory sport for spectators. Um. So,
(31:35):
like you can ask for an indolito, you can also
challenge or charge uh somebody with fighting an altered bull,
one that's overfed and too fat and slow, one whose
horns have been altered, because apparently the tips of the
horns of a bull are very much like a cat's whiskers,
and if you remove that the bull is not going
to have a very good sense of kinetics and Willever
(31:57):
hit the matador. If the crowd thinks that your career
is like over pal, that's why I don't think it's
quite as widespread either that or else. Um, bullfighting crowds
have become complacent. Well, I think that's definitely true. Yeah. Well,
because it's tourists they don't know how to spot a
fat bull. Well, then that very well may be the case.
(32:19):
And they also apparently the way they stabbed them and
where they stabbed them, they do so in order to
make sure they charge straight instead of like I've got
a bad left leg, all of a sudden, I'm gonna
be going left all day or right all day. Yeah. So, Chuck,
we mentioned that you can make a pretty decent living
doing bull fights, but you also mentioned, um that there's
(32:45):
there may be the death of bull fighting as it were.
Do you think that's really true. I mean, seriously, people
have been doing this since the fourth century, and now
all of a sudden, just because of a bad economy
and animal activism, bull fight is going down. It's starting
to where's the evidence. Well, the polls that the popular
(33:06):
sentiment is changing in Spain over the past fifteen years
is one. UM. Catalonia is the first region in mainland
Spain to actually ban it in Barcelonas in Catalonia. Yeah,
which is big because Barcelona had not one, not two,
but three bullfighting arenas, that's right, and that took effects.
(33:26):
That took effect. Actually just this year, on January one,
they said, like, let's finish out the two thousand eleven
season and then we'll ban it shouting from that point.
They had the last one at UH in September. I
think September two thousand eleven was the last one ever
was UM. But that's a huge deal. But even in
Spain they're kind of like the snooty Catalans, like they
(33:49):
don't they don't enjoy bullfighting. I think that's made some
quarters of Spain even more fiercely proud of it. Yeah,
probably so, like Madrid apparently is still very proud of
their bullfighting it UH. In two thousand ten, one of
the state television stations said, we are going to ban
coverage live coverage of it because kids can watch this
on tv UM. They happen in the hours, in the
(34:12):
early afternoon hours, in early evening, so they won't broadcast
until after ten pm. Now right, well, there's a there's
a law that says you can't show animal cruelty on
Spanish television until after ten pm because of children, And
so that's effectively banned, right, showing bullfighting in Spain. Um,
which is a huge blow to it. Um, I guess
(34:34):
economically or financially, because I mean think about how many
how much money comes from television deals and sponsorships, if
you can get rid of it on TV, like, that's that. Yeah,
that's true. And then there's also, Um, they've shown that
there's evidence that government, that the federal government of Spain
is pretty much what's propping up bull fighting these days,
(34:55):
because um, there were what it went from a thousand
bull fights in two thousand eight to eight hundred and
two in Spain, and um, that two hundred was almost exclusively, um,
the result of cuts and government subsidies to small towns
that can't afford to put on a bullfight. And so
that means that, yeah, the government's holding the whole thing up. Yeah.
(35:16):
I read a couple of interesting articles today. One of
them was from a veterinarian. Uh, and they have vets
at the bullfight. Um on staff, I guess uh. And
this vet went on record as saying they did all
this testing of like adrenaline and or adrenaline and all
these different uh chemicals in the body on these bulls
(35:39):
that had just survived, ones that were dead ones before
they went in and basically to prove that the bull
suffers a great deal because there's this misguided notion that
the bull doesn't suffer because they're this magical creature. I
saw this one interview with a Bandaliro and he said
that a vetinary in this translate obviously, but he said,
(36:01):
a veterinarian told me that the bulls have a special
cell in their body that prevents it from suffering and
feeling pain. It's not true. Oh are you sure? Yeah,
there's no special cell that that keeps them from feeling pain.
Well that's a that's a larger debate too. I mean, like,
I believe bulls can suffer. But you know, um, if
(36:22):
you've read David Foster, Wallace is considered the lobster. Can
a lobster suffer is no susception is the perception, the
physical feeling of pain is that the same thing is suffering.
Now we've shown it's not remembering our happiness audiobook. We
talked about the difference between experiencing physical pain and experiencing suffering.
Right now, they actually utilize different parts of the brain.
(36:43):
So if there's no suffering, is inflicting pain on something
e g. Cooking it um? Is that cruel? It's a
good point, it is, But I think bulls experienced suffering.
It's especially if they go through what you describe. Yeah,
and if you're against bull fighting and you want to
do something, you can email the or mail the embassies
(37:05):
of these countries that still participate and tell them that, hey,
I'm not going to visit your country. I'm not gonna
spend my money there. If you're still going to endorse this,
it's a small thing you can do. Can you mail
me some wine because I can't make it over there?
Some temper and neo uh And I just I'm gonna
go on record as saying this whole thing that it's
(37:26):
a it's part of the culture is just crap. Well,
the the Spanish federal government would disagree with you because
in two doesn't tend. And what a lot of people
see as a response to um, the Catalonia ban Um
the Spanish government transferred jurisdiction over bullfighting from the Interior
Ministry to the Cultural Ministry, so as an attempt to
(37:47):
keep it from being banned. It's gonna be uh, it'll
be a tough fault one. But yeah, apparently even Mexico
now is entertaining the idea of banning it. You know
some other things that were defended as culture, genital mutilation
on females, witch burning, bear baiting. You ever heard of that? Um? No.
(38:08):
Bear baiting was popular in England up until the eighteenth century.
That is, when you take a bear like a you know,
grizzly bear or brown bear, like a clown well not
far off, You put it in a pit and chain
it to a steak and release dogs on it, and
the dogs kill the bear, or the bear kills some
of the dogs, so they release more dogs, and people
(38:29):
sit around and gamble on is the bear gonna get
eaten first or the dog's gonna get killed first? And uh,
it's blood sport. And I think this is the same thing.
You know. Um, that's where bulldogs came from, and that's
where they got their name from. It's called bull baiting,
and bulldogs used to not even come close to resembling
what they do now. They were actually bred to be
(38:51):
less vicious um by making them slower and dumber and
more cuddly and dumber but more cuddly um. And that's
how we have the modern budocks now. But they evolved
from basically uh, in the nineteenth century bulldogs. Where we're
where um pitple breed is now where there are a
lot of people being like, we just need to wipe
(39:11):
this breed off the face of the planet. It's gone
out of control. They're crazy. Everybody scared them. They're killing people. Um.
And then they managed to breed the meanness out of them.
But bull bull baiting too. Bull baiting bulls just have
been taken it well. Embarbating actually still happens in Pakistan
and it's uh, it's horrific. So two from me to
(39:35):
you people of Spain, Mexico, France, Uh, ritualized killing of
animals for people to pay for and watch is a
little outdated and just silly and cruel, and I say
please stop, from from Chuck to you, from me to you.
And one more thing. The whole notion of culture isn't
(39:57):
that supposedly to advance your civilization. And isn't that supposed
to mean like positive things like culture? I mean, what
brings people together more than the ritual is killing down
here and watching watching bull fight. All right, I'm done,
(40:22):
um off soapbox. So how do you feel about bullfighting personally?
I think it's great. If you want to learn more
about bull fighting UM or Chuck's views on it, you
(40:45):
can type in Chuck or bull fighting in the search
bar at how stuff works dot com. Uh, And I
said search bar, which means it is time for listener mail.
We're very riled up listener mail. That's right, this is calm.
I'm gonna call this. Uh. Illustrator wrote us about the
comics episode Guys, I'm in currently an illustrator. Uh. Does
(41:09):
he not have much hope for his future in that field? No?
I think he does, Um, I felt because he does
like a digital illustration team. UM. I found your podcast
when I was hip deep in art school at the
Art Institute of Boston. But there are only so many
times I could listen to the same old Our Lady
Peace songs on repeat from that group. No, he had
like one song, Oh I can't remember I dug it.
(41:34):
This song actually I got the CD because of that song. Man,
I used to fall for that. When I was like,
well fourteen, you just be like, that's the only good
song on the whole CD before the Kiss single. Yeah. Um.
I'm now a professional illustrator, but I also teach art
at A I B. And I was able to live
a mini dream when my higher ups approached me about
(41:55):
teaching a comic book class. So he was pretty stoked
about this um on the comics. And this is just
some things he pointed out on the comics code of
authority you guys talked about. World War Two was long
over and the new round of superheroes Spiderman, Fantastic Four
had yet to emerge from the minds of Lee Kirbean Ditko.
As a result, comics were merely treading water and chasing
(42:17):
from fad to fad, westerns to romance to eventually horror
horror comics or what really started to worry everyone, so
they began to put pressure on companies like EC, who
had made their names in over the top horror. In turn,
EC basically jettison at Steak in horror comics and latched
onto a little humor comic uh Mad, which we talked about.
(42:38):
It was like UM Stories Guaranteed to Drive you Mad,
exactly the original but to this point, Mad was published
basically as a comic book. In essence, EC was looking
to hedge its bets, so it relaunched Mad as a
magazine UM, which is very different distinction because it all
of a sudden wasn't under the code of authority. Uh In,
(42:59):
we were blessed with a very first MAD magazine, a
very calculated move since they were not heavily scrutinized like
comics and they didn't have to worry about the comics code,
and it's very smart. It is UM. I hope to
make it big as a comics illustrator in children's book
illustrator who says I can't do both. I also thought
you might like to know that you're keeping me company
during these long hours chasing the dream and this dude
(43:21):
stuff is awesome And if you want to hire Greg Marathus,
you can get in touch with him at the Greg
Marathas Studio, which is g R E G M A
R A T h A s dot com or Rita's
blog Greg Marathus dot blog spot dot com. Stuff is
(43:42):
very cool. I told him I'd keep them in mind
if we ever needed drawings. We could use some drawings.
We need some Facebook timeline drawings. If he's holling to
work for free, can it? Did we remember? We um
we got chastise biographic designer for holding that T shirt contest. Yeah,
I emailed him back act it dissas calm them down.
(44:02):
Uh yeah, I was like, you know, most of these
were amateur designers. There was some pros in there, but
there was something in mind. And it's not like we've
forced anybody to do with but there's a whole there's
a whole movement um from designers about design contests being awful.
Like what other industry basically asked for free work as
a contest quote unquote there's like fiction contests. Yeah, there's
(44:25):
all kinds of box Derby's. Yeah, there's a lot of
stuff that people do for free as part of a contest,
bake offs or bakes off. I'm sorry. And I saw
some designers that say I don't agree with that contests
make me better. And if you don't, that's a ridiculous idea.
Architecture as a field has been in contest mode for
(44:48):
a century more and like, yeah, that's there's a lot
of work put into it, and there's a lot of
work put into graphic design. Contests are everywhere. I think
that's a ridiculous stance. Well, his point was, because he
mailed me back in he was like, well, find the
contest is fine, but you should give them a cut
of the T shirt sales. I don't disagree with that. Well,
I know, but we had no choice. Well, no, we're
(45:08):
in no position whatsoever to share it. I told him, dude,
if it was up to me, they would get of
the T shirt sales. I don't know about that. Well,
we don't get any well, I know, but still we could.
If we couldn't negotiate on their behalf, we would work
a little bit in for us to man, what a
volatile episode right to the end. Yeah, so I guess
if you want to express your volatility UM toward us,
(45:29):
that's cool. We can handle it. We've been taken it
for years. You can tweet to us at s Y
s K podcast. You can send us stuff on Facebook,
including Facebook art for the timeline UM at Facebook dot
com slash stuff. You should know. You can also email
us at Stuff podcast at Discovery dot com. Be sure
(45:54):
to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
Join how Stuffwork staff as we explore them A promising
and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow
Hey, everybody, chuck here. I'm a little sleepy because it's
Saturday morning. You know what that means. It's time for
another classic episode. Stuff you Should Know selects this one.
It's from a third two thousand two, How Bullfighting Works,
And you know what, Honestly, I picked this one because
I just wanted to, uh, to go to people further.
(00:21):
I came out. We usually try and keep things fairly neutral,
but I came out hard against bull fighting on this
because it is barbaric and awful, and uh, I don't
apologize for that. So I'm gonna puff my chest up
and republish this one right now. I don't care about
the tradition. I don't care about any of that. I
just want people to stop bull fighting. So we get
(00:44):
into the history of it and all that. And I
think Josh was a little more neutral than I was,
if I remember correctly, But uh yeah, I'm not into it.
So go ahead and send your hate emails now if
you want, or emails of support. Here we go How
Bull Fighting Works all over again. Welcome to Stuff you
(01:10):
Should Know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hi, and
welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as
always is Charles W. Chuck Bryant, hol A, Chuck Hola,
hola right back at you. Um, how are you doing?
(01:30):
I'm great? How are you? I'm doing pretty good? Yeah. Yeah,
I've been learning a lot about bull volume lately. I
don't know if you know you mean bull killing. Bull
fighting is what it's cultured. It's not what I call it.
Or you could also call it a cardido corda boy,
Here we go, Corrida. Have you ever been to Spain? No?
(01:52):
Have you? Yeah? Where I've been to? Uh and in
um Tulsa de Mar, which is uh little coastal town
near Barcelona there on the coastal Brava very nice. Have
you been to Okay? Yeah, very Have you seen a
(02:12):
bull fight? No, I would not I would not do that, sir,
I have seen a bull fight. And um, to offend
you even further, not only was it a bullfight, it
started off with a cock fight. It was in Cancoon.
I saw it with my sister and my dad, and um,
it was crazy because we were we were there and
(02:33):
it was a bullfight like it wasn't like you could
have accidentally walked into this thing like it was a bullfight. Um,
and I would say of the people, there were um, white,
probably American tourists, who booed and yelled and shouted things
the whole time. And I remember thinking of that one
(02:57):
Simpsons where UM Lisa was having a nightmare about being
second chairs for saxophone in the school band, and um,
at the concert, everybody was booing and she wakes up
and thinks, like, why would everybody come just to boo?
It was exactly like that. People came just to boo
to bullfight. Well, that is one h people who who
(03:19):
say bullfighting is not good, of which I'm one of them,
say that that's one of the only reasons bull fights
are still even going on is because of tourists. That
they're the ones buying the tickets. And many times those
tourists get there and they're horrified and they leave early
and think, Wow, what to spend? Yeah, no, no refunds,
(03:40):
No exactly, So you just funded bullfighting, yeah exactly, sucker. Um.
A couple of quick stats, oh, roughly to between two
hundred and two hundred and fifty thousand bulls are killed
each year from bull fights from bull fights, and UM,
I'm not sure if this is accurate, but the number
I got was it? Fifty two matadors have been killed since.
(04:06):
I'm surprised it's that few. Have you heard of Julio Aparchio?
I know if you have a very strong constitution, Uncle
Josh warns you against this one. Yeah, yeah, I saw it.
Holy cow. It was almost like, how is that not photoshop?
(04:26):
It was perfect? The horns so Julio Apariccio was he
fell down and bull got the best of him, gored
him with his with its horns, with his horns because
bulls of boy, um and what a boy huh, and
gord him under his chin and it threw his through
(04:48):
his neck and then the horn came out of his
mouth perfectly, and um a guy from getting him. It
just got a close up of it, like like fifty
of them. There video of it. It's it's amazing. I
haven't seen the video. It's on the YouTube and it's
one of those that's so awful that you have to
like sign in and verify your age before you watch it.
(05:10):
And I would do not advise people to watch this.
I don't even advise you to see the too. Look
at the Daily Mail article that has it, but it's
pretty crazy. But yes, it happens, and I'm surprised that
only how many fifties seven? The stat I got was
fifty two in the last you know, three hundred plus years. Um.
So there's not much of a fight going on. And
matador is actually Spanish for killer, so is it really um, yes,
(05:35):
they're killer bulls for sure. It's the whole point, Like
there's really no gray area here, like bullfighting is the
the purpose of it is to kill the bull. Yeah,
under certain conditions or um, within a certain framework. But
that's the point of bullfighting. It's not anything but that.
And if the matador fails to kill the bull, that's
on him and it is a huge disgrace, like that's
(05:58):
a that's a loss, and it's not very good right. Um,
But I I start I'm starting to suspect that you
are a post bullfighting. Um. There are a lot of
people and apparently Spain's um. I mean in Spain, it's
like a natural cultural thing. It's been around for a while,
(06:20):
and even people who feel the same way you do
still say I still don't think it should be illegal.
It's just too much a part of our tradition. Not
everyone feels that way though, No, definitely not. They did
a gallop pole in two thousand ten, and seventy of
Spaniards said that they were ready to do away with it.
Oh yeah, that's a lot of Spaniards. And that's up
from like fifteen years earlier. So in this modern day
(06:44):
people are starting to think twice about it. Well, let's
let's talk about this, Chuck, let's talk about how how
long people have been fighting bulls on the Iberian Peninsula.
We don't know, Fox show, but um, there is evidence
of bull ritual dating back all the way to b C. Yeah.
The Mycenaeans apparently used to leap over bulls that were charging.
(07:07):
It was like a thing, and they were always revered,
you know, as like these godlike creatures, which is why
I guess they want to kill him. What. Yeah, what's
the taurus? One? Taurus? Is that the Is that an
astrological sign? Yeah? Okay, yeah, of course, pretty ancient. Yeah. Uh.
The article points out that the Visigoth rule Um of
(07:28):
the Iberian Peninsula from fourteen fifteen to seven eleven UM No.
Four fifteen four fifteen to seven eleven UM had men
on horseback fighting bulls um, which evolved into mounted bullfighting,
which uh jonnel, which still exists in Portugal horseback bullfighting,
(07:50):
where they kill the bull outside the ring. Later on, right,
they weaken it to a certain point, which is the
equivalent of killing the bull is far. I guess there's
some point of no return that the Portuguese understand and
they're like, okay, well we're done, come outside, and then
that's that. But as anybody who's opposed bullfighting will tell you,
(08:11):
that's not any more humane. Of course not. It's just
out of sight of the spectators. Um. So yeah, you've
got what is it? Ray hoo ray jono jo um.
And then uh. Bull fighting itself as we understand it today,
was firmly established in Spain by the eleventh century UM,
(08:33):
and it came about during festivals, specifically one festival called
the Fiesta descind Ferminton and anybody's been to Pampalona will
recognize that because that's where the running of the bulls
takes place. And when in July now so I seven
when it used to be September, and then in the
sixteenth century they moved it to July, and ever since
(08:56):
then the running of the bulls has been held. But
it's been going on since long before that, And it
actually started with a bunch of um ranchers and their
kids moving the bulls from like their pens to about
a half a mile to the arena. UM. And then
people started running alongside him, and counting evolved into the
running of the bulls. Now interesting else, said the Spanish
(09:18):
military leader uh midd eleventh century. He was one of
the first to actually bring it into the arena and
make it the sanctioned corrida, which was government sanctioned is
today at least what was back then imagined financially supported
by governments to fifteenth century. It was a big part
(09:39):
of the aristocracy until Queen Isabella came along and said
this is not cool. I don't know why she was
against it, probably because she was an animal lover. I
would say that's probably a good idea. And Pope Pious
UM five almost said v uh. He banned it, but
(10:00):
didn't last very long, um only about eight years, because
people were into it pretty pretty big time, right um.
And then in about the I guess in the six
hundred is when that that whole divergence between horseback and
foot bull foot bull fighting took place, and it remained. Um.
The sport of the aristocracy until Philip the came along
(10:25):
and he said, you know what, this is barbaric. You
would have to be a low class barbarian to engage
in bullfighting. So if you remember my court and you
get caught doing this, I'll shoot you in the knee.
And the aristocracy said, well, we want our knees intact,
so we're gonna stop doing this. And at this point
bullfighting transferred from a kind of high flutant, snooty pastime
(10:50):
to the the um, the pastime of the people, the
national sport of the Spanish people, and from that point
on it's it's stayed that way. Yeah, but they they
The author does point out that there are arenas in
Spain that still have the royal boxes for the royal
family right to attend these things, so it hasn't gone
(11:10):
away completely as far as that goes. So Spain is
the heart and life center of um bull fighting, but
there's other places that it's held. Obviously, I saw him
in cancun Um, and if you're a bullfighter, you can
follow the season pretty much year round and get work
if you're good. They have in France. Did you know that?
(11:32):
I didn't, But I saw that it's been It was
banned in the UK. Had no idea anybody was fighting
bulls and going on in Germany was going on all
over the place. It's crazy. But that doesn't make sense
that it would happen in Germany if the Visigoths are
the ones who introduced it to the Iberian Peninsula because
they were Germanic people from south of the south Norway
(11:53):
will call you south Way. I don't think the Goths. Uh.
So we'll walk you through what happens in a in
a corrida um in this whitewashed article version. But um,
before this ever happens, we'll walk you through the couple
of days before the bull even gets to the ring. Oh,
(12:16):
this is a special treat for me. It is the
bull Um is not an aggressive animal at all. Bull
likes to hang around and chew grass and uh smell flowers.
That sounds like bullfighting propaganda to me. No, Ferdinand, the
bull it's like a sweet creature. But they actually are
not aggressive. They're only um going to charge somebody if
they're threatened and angry, which is what bullfighting is all about. Um. So,
(12:41):
in the two days prior to the bull showing up
at the arena. They are abused. Um, they are uh
basically mentally destroyed versions of what a bull should be.
But there you're fat bull. While they do fatten him
up to make them slow. Well, that's problem, and you
can call somebody out for that. Okay. Um. They have
(13:06):
wet newspaper stuffed in their ears so they can't hear anything.
They have vasoline rubbed on their eyes so their visions blurred.
They have their eyes taped open so they can't sleep. Uh.
They stuff cotton up their nostrils so they can't breathe
very well, and they stick and needle through their genitals. That'll,
that'll take anybody off. They rubbed this caustic solution on
(13:27):
their legs, which makes the bull not be able to
balance and uh keeps the bull from lying down. Ever.
They strap their horns to the ceiling of their transport
truck ah to take them on their long hot journey
to wherever they're going. And for the two days before
they keep them in a in a box. Oh wait,
(13:48):
I'm sorry, that's not all. They give them drugs to
either pep them up or slow them down, just to
keep them in whatever state they want them in. And
give them laxatives, uh to just sleep make things even
more uncomfortable. Um. Then they put the bull in the
in this dark box for two days, uh to disorient
(14:08):
the bull. Finally, when they opened the box, there's a
light at the end of the tunnel that the bull thinks,
my god, I'm finally getting out of here. Runs to
the light and all of a sudden they're in a
bull ring, right, And there's trumpets and fanfare and people cheering, um,
and the bulls like, oh cool, how's how's it? Hey?
How are you all doing? I've been through some rough
(14:30):
times lately. Um. Some of that stuff, I think if
you were found out, you would be disqualified immediately, especially
doing stuff that slowed the bull down or made it
less dangerous. Yes, the bull ring is a ring for
a reason. Um. Bulls would want to go try and
hide in a corner, but the ring, the circular ring,
(14:52):
will confuse in a bull to where it can't hide anywhere.
Have you ever seen that footage of that bull that
like makes it up into the hands, like jumps up
and then is into the stands like on top of people.
It was crazy? Was that bull run our test? No?
Do you get that joke. Okay. So the different acts
I believe are called tercios, Yes, I believe so. And
(15:16):
there's three of them, right, Yes, there's three of them,
and the that's three acts in a fight in a cardido, yes,
in a bull fight. Yeah, and um there's no suspense
going on either by the way they all go down
the same way. I bet it's suspenseful for the bull. Um.
So the bull comes out the first act or what? Uh? Yeah?
(15:41):
Act one? Okay. In act one there are um guys
called peka doors and they're mounted on horseback and they
are basically, um, I guess, low level torreros or bullfighters
because both. A matador is not the only kind of bullfighter.
He is cream of the crop, pinnacle of bullfighters, the
(16:03):
well paid rock star. Yes, um, but he works with
a crew of pika doors who show up in the
first act and bandilli aros who show up in the
second act. But the pika doors what they do is
they lance the bowl between his shoulder blades around his
neck muscles. And the whole point of this chuck You'll
love this one is to weaken the neck muscles so
(16:26):
that the bull's head hangs so that the matador can
get to its heart more easily. Yeah. It also hits
a gland in the neck that releases adrenaline. Apparently. Um
So they lanced the bull three times and twist the
blade around to ensure maximum blood loss. Um. Three matadors
(16:47):
will now come in. They will fight individually later on,
but they all come in at first in the first
act with their capes. And this is and for the
for the bull fight, it's an afternoon of them. There's
six bulls and three matadors in each mattador fights two
bulls and each bull fight takes about fifteen and twenty minutes,
yes roughly. Um So they come in with their little
(17:07):
capes and uh do their little maneuvers to draw attention
away from the pika doors. And the pika doors go
and hide behind their little walls. They have these interior
walls that they can hide behind. Whenever the bull starts
to get too dangerous, they run and high behind these walls. Yes,
or if this or America, the Pika doors would be
(17:28):
dressed as clowns and would hide in barrels. Look at rodeo. Yeah,
it will do a rodeo podcast at some point. Do
we have to not sure, okay, they don't. I don't
think they kill the cows and rodeos. No, okay. Um,
So the pika doors leave the ring. The matadors leave
the ring at two begins in the bandel yarros. I
(17:50):
know that's a tough one. Yeah, they come in. They're
they're basically bullfighters, assistant bullfighters, but they're on foot. Yes,
and if you've ever seen a bullfighter picture of a
bull fight, bulls seem to have some um crepe barbed
sticking out of him. That's the bandelierros work. Yes, and
that is called a bandias and it's a barbed dart.
(18:16):
It's adorned colorfully. The bulls aren't the only things dying
in this episode, so was the Spanish language, because we
are butchering it. I'm trying uh this of course, further
weekends the bull um so the mighty Matador doesn't have
much work to do. So the bull is still dangerous.
Um are They run in circles at this point to
(18:37):
to get it nice and dizzy and confused. The manador
comes out for the final act and he has ten
ten official minutes to kill the bull. Well to do
a little showing off first and then kill the bull.
Um after the ten minute warring. After the ten minutes,
he gets in a viso, which is a warning first warning.
(18:57):
After three minutes he gets another one, and then he
gets a third one, so he has a total of
in actuality fifteen minutes to kill the bull or else
the bull is let out alive and the metadors disgraced.
But for the most part, the matador is going to
dispatch the bull, and um, he does it if he
first starts using the cape and the cape is always
held in the left hand. Is it? That's all right handed? Dudes?
(19:19):
I did not. I was looking, and I could even
tell that they were. Um there, the cape was kind
of clumsy held in the left hand. They were still
holding it in the left hand. Well, the guys I
saw were practicing, so maybe I don't know, but I
don't see why they would practice with their right hand.
I don't either. Okay, But you have a cape in
one hand, you have a sword in the other. Yes,
and the point of the cape. By the way, we
(19:41):
should probably get to this now. Um, cape is always
red because red Anger's bulls right true balls are color blind,
so they're not angered by red or any other color.
What does get them going is the movement of the
cape and sticking uh swords in their neck. That's another
thing that gets them going. Um. And actually that's not
(20:02):
necessarily true. By the time the manador comes out, sometimes
the um the bowl is really tired from blood loss
and being tortured for a couple of days apparently, um.
And so the manador really kind of has to work
to get it riled up again. And even though the
bulls just like, just kill me, manador is like, not yet,
we have a crowd to please first, So um the
(20:25):
the manador eventually after the cape work is done. Um.
Oh the cape is read by the way to high bloodstains. Um.
Once the cape work is done, the manador will um
as the bull runs past him, will plunge the sword
in between his shoulder blades and what's called a estoccata,
(20:45):
which is the death blow and uh it properly delivered
estocata will sever the bulls a order and that will
be that almost immediately for the bull. If it's not
done correctly, then the bull can be in even more
tremendous pain as it bleeds out. But to protect against this,
a bandeliero will come out and uh immediately deliver any
(21:09):
any another thrust of a blade to make sure the
bull is dead with a puntilla a smaller knife. UM.
Ideally they killed them with one blow. That rarely happens
because apparently matadors aren't so great at doing that anymore.
I don't know if they ever were. And uh, a
lot of times the bull lives even through the smaller
(21:31):
knife plunge and is still alive when the ears and
tail or hoof or cut off and presented to the matador.
Usually there's a there's another fail safe um where they
just bring out a tractor and run the bull over
a bunch of times to make sure that it's it's
so nice. And if that doesn't work, then they the
(21:52):
people come down from the stands and just start shooting it.
That's not true, and it's not funny. It's not funny
because it's not true. And oftentimes do survive hanging on
by a thread. Their lungs are punctured, so they're bleeding,
like drowning in their own blood and like vomiting up
blood through their nose and mouth like a whale dying
(22:13):
and flurry. Uh. And sometimes they will take it outside
and skin it while it's even still alive. Yeah, that's
a kind of a tradition. Um. I saw the bull
after the bullfight. It was pretty sad. Um. They take
the bull right outside and um they'll dress it and
then sell the meat at the stadium. Um, which is
(22:34):
customary and very strange, but that's one of the aspects
of bullfighting. If you've ever wanted a bull burger and
you wanted to eat it right after you saw a die,
go to a bullfight in Spain. Uh, they will drag
the bull out with some mules attached to chains. And UM.
I don't know if the booing booing you heard, because
(22:56):
apparently the people will boo and throw beer cans at
the bull at the end. I don't know if that's
what you were. It depends, So it depends. Um no, no, no, no,
that's this was. They were booing the matador, the banliros,
the doors, everybody. They were booing the whole country of
Mexico for this. Um. Yeah they're booing everybody. No. Um,
(23:17):
it depends on the bull. If the bull was um
a woss, then I could see the fans throwing beer
cans at it. There's also um that an aspect of
this that cannot be denying that a bull that shows
great bravery, anger, um, spirit, spunk really tries to kill
the matador or the bandili arros will be very much
(23:39):
revered by the people in the stands and gruesomely UM.
They'll bring it out for a victory lap, being dragged
by the mules in a circle around the arena. After
it's dead, or apparently while it's still dying, people will
cheer it, throw roses for it. Um. And there's a
there's a a UM. There's a rule where the crowd
(24:01):
or the manador can ask for an uh indolito, which
is a reprieve for a particularly courageous bull, and the
president of the of the bullfight, the referee can say, yes,
I give this bull of reprieve because it's such an
awesome bowl. We're gonna let it live. And the manador
proceeds to um with an empty hand simulate the death blow,
(24:23):
saying I could have killed the bull, but I like
the bull so much I lobbied to get it released.
That bull is taken away and UM put out the
stud for the rest of its life. And there was one.
It's very rare to get an indulto. Um. And there
was one one bull called Manzanito in seven he got
(24:45):
an indulto because he gored all three manadors in the
plaza that day. Wow. That that that will get you
off right there. You get to go stud for the
rest of your life. Mr. Bull. Horses are also abused.
The ones that participate, uh, their ears are stuffed with newspaper,
wet newspaper. They're blindfolded, and they sever their vocal cords
(25:05):
so they can't scream out in pain because people don't
want to hear that. They don't want to scream. Yeah,
people don't like that, So they sever the vocal cords.
So the horses that are, you know, trembling in fear
inside this ring at this bowl, don't bark out and
let people know that. And if the horses are hurt,
they take them out of the ring and patch them
(25:26):
up and send them right back in there. Where are
you getting this activist info all over the place? Yeah?
Oh yeah, okay, I mean it's not activist info, it's
how it goes down. No, it all just kind of
has a certain ring to it. I'm not disputing it.
I'm just saying like, yeah, well I mean coming out
of my mouth, it probably sounds activist because I think
it's an awful thing to do something like this. But
(25:48):
this is the these is the facts. UM. Okay, Well
in check you will love the next part wherein we
talk about famous manadors. Yeah, I feel free. So uh.
(26:13):
People have been doing this since what we said, like
the eleventh century, right, Elsid was supposedly the first guy
to fight a bull in a arena, UM, and since
then it's it's just become huge, big business. UM. But
the first real and probably only real Golden age if
(26:33):
you call it that, bullfighting happened UM from nineteen fourteen
and nine, and there were two matadors, Juan belmonte Garcia
and Jose Gomez, who fought bulls under the name Joslite.
Though UM had a rivalry and Um. Belmonte Garcia was
(26:54):
actually the first guy apparently to stand still or stand
his ground when he was in cape work with a bull,
rather than try to run away from the bull using
fancy footwork that erect style. Jsalito was his rival, and
the rivalry was really going swimmingly, I guess for everybody
(27:15):
but the bulls, until Hosalito was fatally gored Um at
a match that both of them were at Garcia and
Hosalito were fighting at um In and that end of
the Golden age of bullfighting. You'll be happy to hear.
He must have been small. Hosalito. Yeah, his name is Jose,
and I think if you're Jose and they call you Hosalito,
(27:36):
that means you're small, like add that eto to anything
alito or young because he started very young. Oh yeah,
maybe that's true. He started at age thirteen, um and
he was only I think twenty twenty five when he
died when he was gored So. Uh. Another guy who's
gorgeous named Manuel Rodriguez E Sanchez. Do you think that's
(27:58):
like the mothers and the father's names when it's two
last names and there's an e in and in the middle.
I don't know. I would think so. And well, Rodriguez
in Sanchez. You put the Rodriguez together and the Sanchez
is together and you get Manuel also known as Menolette.
Maybe so. And he was gordon In. He was the
(28:20):
top matador from nineteen forty to ninety seven, and I
think is goring In the end of his being the
top matador was not coincidental. I think you're probably right. Uh,
should we talk about the bulls because it's very specific
what kind of bulls are fighting. They're all four years old,
which I didn't know. I didn't either, Um, and they
(28:41):
are specifically bred to bull fight, and they way about
thirteen hundred pounds. You want to translate that niquilos for
our friends, it's five ninety kilograms, right, And um, they
are bread and ranches. And this article says that they
are tested for bravery and ferocity and that if you
pass that test, you would become a fighting bull. Um.
(29:05):
And that may be true sometimes, but uh, matadors like
to make their money and they don't want to be gored,
So the high falutin matadors will request very placid, docile
bulls just to keep the show going. Is that true?
Well that's what that's what I read. Okay, So have
they just want to put on the show? You know,
(29:26):
they don't want to die? Well, I'm sure they don't
w want to make They want to make a few
million bucks a year. Ye doing it easy too, because
they get paid about a hundred grand a bullfight and
they can do maybe thirty to forty or more. Yeah,
I know the um oh the guy Bell monteh he
had a record hundred and nine bullfights in It's a lot.
(29:49):
It's like in Rocky three when he was fighting all
the chumps just for a pay day. Oh yeah, he
didn't want any real challenge. But ultimately he did want
a real challenge because he fights. He fought Draco, well,
he fought cluver Lang and three and three it was
the Russian. Oh no, no, ye. Three was clever Lane. No. Yeah.
The first two were Apollo, the third was cluver Lane,
(30:11):
the fourth was the Russian. I thought that he was uh,
Tommy Morrison. And then the sixth was when he came
back as a trainer, huh. And the seventh was him
enjoying a nice sandwich for two hours. No, Rocky three
was definitely clever Lane, because that was my favorite one
until I got older and I realized that the first
(30:31):
one was actually the better one. You know. I thought
that I would think that too, and then I went
back and watched it as an adult, and I'm like,
I mean, it's pretty good, but oh man, I loved it.
There's just too much character development in it for a
Rocky movie. Well, it was a love story it wasn't
even a boxing movie. Wrong with you, I understand, but
it was a love story starring and written and directed
(30:51):
by Sylvester Stallone. That's right, all right. Back to the bulls.
Bulls are never exposed to more than one fight. Yes,
apparently they have very good memories, so they learn how
to out dual the the matador in their in their cape.
So that's why they don't bite them twice. And the
guys who test their ferocity for I guess the ones
(31:12):
that are tested, those are done on horseback, so that
the bull is not like, oh I remember those capes.
I'm gonna get you. I associate you with laxatives. Well,
even this article says that they they alter bulls to
make them easier to fight. But this is what I'm saying.
It's so um it's a very participatory sport for spectators. Um. So,
(31:35):
like you can ask for an indolito, you can also
challenge or charge uh somebody with fighting an altered bull,
one that's overfed and too fat and slow, one whose
horns have been altered, because apparently the tips of the
horns of a bull are very much like a cat's whiskers,
and if you remove that the bull is not going
to have a very good sense of kinetics and Willever
(31:57):
hit the matador. If the crowd thinks that your career
is like over pal, that's why I don't think it's
quite as widespread either that or else. Um, bullfighting crowds
have become complacent. Well, I think that's definitely true. Yeah. Well,
because it's tourists they don't know how to spot a
fat bull. Well, then that very well may be the case.
(32:19):
And they also apparently the way they stabbed them and
where they stabbed them, they do so in order to
make sure they charge straight instead of like I've got
a bad left leg, all of a sudden, I'm gonna
be going left all day or right all day. Yeah. So, Chuck,
we mentioned that you can make a pretty decent living
doing bull fights, but you also mentioned, um that there's
(32:45):
there may be the death of bull fighting as it were.
Do you think that's really true. I mean, seriously, people
have been doing this since the fourth century, and now
all of a sudden, just because of a bad economy
and animal activism, bull fight is going down. It's starting
to where's the evidence. Well, the polls that the popular
(33:06):
sentiment is changing in Spain over the past fifteen years
is one. UM. Catalonia is the first region in mainland
Spain to actually ban it in Barcelonas in Catalonia. Yeah,
which is big because Barcelona had not one, not two,
but three bullfighting arenas, that's right, and that took effects.
(33:26):
That took effect. Actually just this year, on January one,
they said, like, let's finish out the two thousand eleven
season and then we'll ban it shouting from that point.
They had the last one at UH in September. I
think September two thousand eleven was the last one ever
was UM. But that's a huge deal. But even in
Spain they're kind of like the snooty Catalans, like they
(33:49):
don't they don't enjoy bullfighting. I think that's made some
quarters of Spain even more fiercely proud of it. Yeah,
probably so, like Madrid apparently is still very proud of
their bullfighting it UH. In two thousand ten, one of
the state television stations said, we are going to ban
coverage live coverage of it because kids can watch this
on tv UM. They happen in the hours, in the
(34:12):
early afternoon hours, in early evening, so they won't broadcast
until after ten pm. Now right, well, there's a there's
a law that says you can't show animal cruelty on
Spanish television until after ten pm because of children, And
so that's effectively banned, right, showing bullfighting in Spain. Um,
which is a huge blow to it. Um, I guess
(34:34):
economically or financially, because I mean think about how many
how much money comes from television deals and sponsorships, if
you can get rid of it on TV, like, that's that. Yeah,
that's true. And then there's also, Um, they've shown that
there's evidence that government, that the federal government of Spain
is pretty much what's propping up bull fighting these days,
(34:55):
because um, there were what it went from a thousand
bull fights in two thousand eight to eight hundred and
two in Spain, and um, that two hundred was almost exclusively, um,
the result of cuts and government subsidies to small towns
that can't afford to put on a bullfight. And so
that means that, yeah, the government's holding the whole thing up. Yeah.
(35:16):
I read a couple of interesting articles today. One of
them was from a veterinarian. Uh, and they have vets
at the bullfight. Um on staff, I guess uh. And
this vet went on record as saying they did all
this testing of like adrenaline and or adrenaline and all
these different uh chemicals in the body on these bulls
(35:39):
that had just survived, ones that were dead ones before
they went in and basically to prove that the bull
suffers a great deal because there's this misguided notion that
the bull doesn't suffer because they're this magical creature. I
saw this one interview with a Bandaliro and he said
that a vetinary in this translate obviously, but he said,
(36:01):
a veterinarian told me that the bulls have a special
cell in their body that prevents it from suffering and
feeling pain. It's not true. Oh are you sure? Yeah,
there's no special cell that that keeps them from feeling pain.
Well that's a that's a larger debate too. I mean, like,
I believe bulls can suffer. But you know, um, if
(36:22):
you've read David Foster, Wallace is considered the lobster. Can
a lobster suffer is no susception is the perception, the
physical feeling of pain is that the same thing is suffering.
Now we've shown it's not remembering our happiness audiobook. We
talked about the difference between experiencing physical pain and experiencing suffering.
Right now, they actually utilize different parts of the brain.
(36:43):
So if there's no suffering, is inflicting pain on something
e g. Cooking it um? Is that cruel? It's a
good point, it is, But I think bulls experienced suffering.
It's especially if they go through what you describe. Yeah,
and if you're against bull fighting and you want to
do something, you can email the or mail the embassies
(37:05):
of these countries that still participate and tell them that, hey,
I'm not going to visit your country. I'm not gonna
spend my money there. If you're still going to endorse this,
it's a small thing you can do. Can you mail
me some wine because I can't make it over there?
Some temper and neo uh And I just I'm gonna
go on record as saying this whole thing that it's
(37:26):
a it's part of the culture is just crap. Well,
the the Spanish federal government would disagree with you because
in two doesn't tend. And what a lot of people
see as a response to um, the Catalonia ban Um
the Spanish government transferred jurisdiction over bullfighting from the Interior
Ministry to the Cultural Ministry, so as an attempt to
(37:47):
keep it from being banned. It's gonna be uh, it'll
be a tough fault one. But yeah, apparently even Mexico
now is entertaining the idea of banning it. You know
some other things that were defended as culture, genital mutilation
on females, witch burning, bear baiting. You ever heard of that? Um? No.
(38:08):
Bear baiting was popular in England up until the eighteenth century.
That is, when you take a bear like a you know,
grizzly bear or brown bear, like a clown well not
far off, You put it in a pit and chain
it to a steak and release dogs on it, and
the dogs kill the bear, or the bear kills some
of the dogs, so they release more dogs, and people
(38:29):
sit around and gamble on is the bear gonna get
eaten first or the dog's gonna get killed first? And uh,
it's blood sport. And I think this is the same thing.
You know. Um, that's where bulldogs came from, and that's
where they got their name from. It's called bull baiting,
and bulldogs used to not even come close to resembling
what they do now. They were actually bred to be
(38:51):
less vicious um by making them slower and dumber and
more cuddly and dumber but more cuddly um. And that's
how we have the modern budocks now. But they evolved
from basically uh, in the nineteenth century bulldogs. Where we're
where um pitple breed is now where there are a
lot of people being like, we just need to wipe
(39:11):
this breed off the face of the planet. It's gone
out of control. They're crazy. Everybody scared them. They're killing people. Um.
And then they managed to breed the meanness out of them.
But bull bull baiting too. Bull baiting bulls just have
been taken it well. Embarbating actually still happens in Pakistan
and it's uh, it's horrific. So two from me to
(39:35):
you people of Spain, Mexico, France, Uh, ritualized killing of
animals for people to pay for and watch is a
little outdated and just silly and cruel, and I say
please stop, from from Chuck to you, from me to you.
And one more thing. The whole notion of culture isn't
(39:57):
that supposedly to advance your civilization. And isn't that supposed
to mean like positive things like culture? I mean, what
brings people together more than the ritual is killing down
here and watching watching bull fight. All right, I'm done,
(40:22):
um off soapbox. So how do you feel about bullfighting personally?
I think it's great. If you want to learn more
about bull fighting UM or Chuck's views on it, you
(40:45):
can type in Chuck or bull fighting in the search
bar at how stuff works dot com. Uh, And I
said search bar, which means it is time for listener mail.
We're very riled up listener mail. That's right, this is calm.
I'm gonna call this. Uh. Illustrator wrote us about the
comics episode Guys, I'm in currently an illustrator. Uh. Does
(41:09):
he not have much hope for his future in that field? No?
I think he does, Um, I felt because he does
like a digital illustration team. UM. I found your podcast
when I was hip deep in art school at the
Art Institute of Boston. But there are only so many
times I could listen to the same old Our Lady
Peace songs on repeat from that group. No, he had
like one song, Oh I can't remember I dug it.
(41:34):
This song actually I got the CD because of that song. Man,
I used to fall for that. When I was like,
well fourteen, you just be like, that's the only good
song on the whole CD before the Kiss single. Yeah. Um.
I'm now a professional illustrator, but I also teach art
at A I B. And I was able to live
a mini dream when my higher ups approached me about
(41:55):
teaching a comic book class. So he was pretty stoked
about this um on the comics. And this is just
some things he pointed out on the comics code of
authority you guys talked about. World War Two was long
over and the new round of superheroes Spiderman, Fantastic Four
had yet to emerge from the minds of Lee Kirbean Ditko.
As a result, comics were merely treading water and chasing
(42:17):
from fad to fad, westerns to romance to eventually horror
horror comics or what really started to worry everyone, so
they began to put pressure on companies like EC, who
had made their names in over the top horror. In turn,
EC basically jettison at Steak in horror comics and latched
onto a little humor comic uh Mad, which we talked about.
(42:38):
It was like UM Stories Guaranteed to Drive you Mad,
exactly the original but to this point, Mad was published
basically as a comic book. In essence, EC was looking
to hedge its bets, so it relaunched Mad as a
magazine UM, which is very different distinction because it all
of a sudden wasn't under the code of authority. Uh In,
(42:59):
we were blessed with a very first MAD magazine, a
very calculated move since they were not heavily scrutinized like
comics and they didn't have to worry about the comics code,
and it's very smart. It is UM. I hope to
make it big as a comics illustrator in children's book
illustrator who says I can't do both. I also thought
you might like to know that you're keeping me company
during these long hours chasing the dream and this dude
(43:21):
stuff is awesome And if you want to hire Greg Marathus,
you can get in touch with him at the Greg
Marathas Studio, which is g R E G M A
R A T h A s dot com or Rita's
blog Greg Marathus dot blog spot dot com. Stuff is
(43:42):
very cool. I told him I'd keep them in mind
if we ever needed drawings. We could use some drawings.
We need some Facebook timeline drawings. If he's holling to
work for free, can it? Did we remember? We um
we got chastise biographic designer for holding that T shirt contest. Yeah,
I emailed him back act it dissas calm them down.
(44:02):
Uh yeah, I was like, you know, most of these
were amateur designers. There was some pros in there, but
there was something in mind. And it's not like we've
forced anybody to do with but there's a whole there's
a whole movement um from designers about design contests being awful.
Like what other industry basically asked for free work as
a contest quote unquote there's like fiction contests. Yeah, there's
(44:25):
all kinds of box Derby's. Yeah, there's a lot of
stuff that people do for free as part of a contest,
bake offs or bakes off. I'm sorry. And I saw
some designers that say I don't agree with that contests
make me better. And if you don't, that's a ridiculous idea.
Architecture as a field has been in contest mode for
(44:48):
a century more and like, yeah, that's there's a lot
of work put into it, and there's a lot of
work put into graphic design. Contests are everywhere. I think
that's a ridiculous stance. Well, his point was, because he
mailed me back in he was like, well, find the
contest is fine, but you should give them a cut
of the T shirt sales. I don't disagree with that. Well,
I know, but we had no choice. Well, no, we're
(45:08):
in no position whatsoever to share it. I told him, dude,
if it was up to me, they would get of
the T shirt sales. I don't know about that. Well,
we don't get any well, I know, but still we could.
If we couldn't negotiate on their behalf, we would work
a little bit in for us to man, what a
volatile episode right to the end. Yeah, so I guess
if you want to express your volatility UM toward us,
(45:29):
that's cool. We can handle it. We've been taken it
for years. You can tweet to us at s Y
s K podcast. You can send us stuff on Facebook,
including Facebook art for the timeline UM at Facebook dot
com slash stuff. You should know. You can also email
us at Stuff podcast at Discovery dot com. Be sure
(45:54):
to check out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future.
Join how Stuffwork staff as we explore them A promising
and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow
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Chuck Bryant
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