March 22, 2019 • 27 mins
What is a number station? What is shortwave radio? What could these numbers mean? In this episode, Chris and Jonathan dive into the murky, mysterious world of number stations.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how
stuff Works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.
I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with
How Stuff Works and I heart radio and allow of
all things tech. And today it's time for another classic episode.
This episode originally aired on April two thousand twelve, and
(00:29):
it's called Tech Stuff Counts Some Number Stations. This was
one of those fun, creepy topics that Chris and I
tackled in the early days of tech Stuff, one that
I found absolutely fascinating and more than a little unnerving.
I hope you guys enjoy. So the topic we're covering
(00:53):
is numbers stations, which actually comes to us courtesy of
some feedback we received on Facebook, which I fortunately, due
to my computer being silly right now, I cannot pull up. However,
this is Facebook feedback asking us to cover numbers stations.
And you may wonder, oh, my, Drew Geese, what a
(01:14):
number stations is? Things being so scory and people being
quick to forget. That's that's like a double reference right there,
since I throw in some clockwork orange. So here's what
a number station is. It is a radio station. Using
shortwave radio that blasts out a transmission, usually at a
(01:35):
very regular interval, that normally has some sort of tone
or even music to it, followed by a series of
numbers spoken in sort of a semi monotone voice, sometimes
an automated voice, in fact, very often an automated voice.
And it's just a seemingly random string of numbers that
(01:58):
have no particular context or meaning to them, and it
has created quite a kind of a well a hobbyist
dream come true really for people who like mysteries, because
there's no official explanation as to what these stations are
and why why these numbers are being broadcast. Here's what
(02:19):
we know. No, I'm kidding. Now, let's go to what
we can speculate on. Um. We do know that official
governments have there. There's no official government that has spoken
up and said, oh, yeah, we did that. Yeah. The
closest was a Czechoslovakian official who acknowledge receipt of a
(02:40):
message about numbers stations, but did not It did not
go so far as to actually say what the number
station was, what it was for. It essentially was just
that I got your message. That was pretty much it.
The check is in the mail. There you go. But gosh,
I can't believe you're waiting an entire time for me
to shut up, So you can use that. Uh, however, uh,
(03:01):
there are fewer now than their word during the Cold War. Yeah,
and they started the height of they started appearing during
the World wars. So world War One, Yeah, not not.
You know, this is the early part of the earlier
part of the twentieth century. Yeah, first, first couple of
decades of the twentieth century, that's when they start popping up.
(03:21):
So let's talk a little bit about about why a
number station is even possible before we get into what
they were and what they sound like and all that
kind of stuff. So first, they are short wave radio,
which we have talked about on a previous podcast many
many years ago. Yeah, we'll do a quick we'll do
a quick refresher course. So technically, a short wave is
(03:44):
a is a radio wave with a wavelength shorter than
two hundred meters twos wavelength would have a frequency of
around hurts uh, and it's typically these these radio waves
are used to broadcast voice and music, but also for
long distance communication. The reason that you can have long
distance communication is that these wavelengths are at sort of
(04:07):
a sweet spot when it comes to the way the
Earth works. So the Earth has the ionosphere, you know,
that surrounds it, binds it, and penetrates it. For no
ionosphere just surrounds the Earth. And if you were to
aim a short wave radio frequency at the ionosphere, uh,
the ionosphere would refract that frequency and it would beam
(04:30):
back down to Earth. So by bouncing it effectively off
the ionosphere, you can send a radio signal much further
than you could if it were to just broadcast out
and radiate out from a tower. Yes, So with this
in mind, with this long distance communication ability, it has
opened up opportunities for lots of different applications. And you know,
(04:53):
you'll hear about amateur radio enthusiasts who will just they'll
they'll use their their radios to dial in and listen
to the various broadcasts that go out there. And that's
really how number stations were discovered. It was mainly hobbyists
who as they were scanning the different bands and listening
to what was out there, they were coming across these
(05:14):
very odd sort of transmissions. And um, before I get
too far, I should say the the whole refraction by
the ionosphere. There's a specific name for that kind of
transmission that I love. I love this term skywave propagation.
It's a cool term. Right. So, yeah, you've got these
(05:36):
hobbists who are listening in and they would come across
a very unusual and frankly pretty creepy kind of transmission
in some cases. And uh, I think we even have
an example that we can listen to. So let's let's
take a quick listen to what a typical number station
might sound like if you were to tune in on
(05:59):
a shortwave radio kind of gets you right here done.
If by the by right here you mean now I'm
looking over my shoulder and waiting for someone to break
(06:20):
into the room. Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm thinking.
There is something particularly creepy about hearing kind of a
almost and almost like a harmonic. It sounds like there's
been some harmonic supplied in some cases, like it's an
automated voice or whatever, but hearing something like that monotone
just delivering number after number, and then they really repetitious
music that was used to introduce these So what could
(06:44):
these be? And there's been a lot of people who
have suggested what number stations might be all about, Um,
you know, the everything from it could just be uh
stuff for people who are surveying areas for for cartography
and that kind of thing, but that doesn't seem likely.
Of No one is taking credit for it, not at all.
(07:06):
So that's our cartography channel that has led to uh
to some not so much conspiracy theories. It really does
boil down to, well, if you're just broadcasting numbers with
no other context, why could you possibly be doing that for?
And one of the explanations is that it's a a
way to communicate two spies to undercover operatives who might
(07:28):
be uh invested in some foreign country, perhaps one that
is unfriendly to the the the country of origin and
so there. And when we say there's number stations, there
are number of stations all over the world, and they're
broadcasting pretty much all the languages that you might expect.
(07:49):
They would be in the major languages of the world.
So it's not just that, you know, it's not just
one country that's doing this. There there's multiple countries that
are doing it. And UH so this speculation is that
this is these are messages they're sent to government spies.
UH and these. You know, the governments aren't admitting to
it for for pretty understandable reasons. I would say, well,
(08:14):
if you or any of your team has captured, the
government will disavow any knowledge of this operations, message will
self destructed. Fifteen seconds. Don't count us out yet. We
still have a bit more to say about counting stations.
But first let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor.
(08:39):
The So these messages, the numbers those, that's a code,
it's an it's encoded message. Form of cryptography that is
called the the the one pad note yeah, or or
one time pad yeah. Um yeah. I'm interested in cryptography,
uh and have been reading about it for many years.
(09:00):
And this is not exactly a new thing. It doesn't
even require the use of a computer. I mean, we
talked about cryptography on many podcasts at different levels. Um
and we even got into quantum cryptography, which is supposedly unbreakable,
although I've seen reports recently that it may not necessarily
be unbreakable. Well, one time pads are technically unbreakable if
(09:24):
you follow the right procedure right because basically, um and
they were called pads because at one time they were
and probably still are a pad. So this pad is
generated like a pad of paper. You uh write down
your message and encode it on this paper using the
tool um. And it's a one time thing. And there's
a part of the key is embedded in the message,
(09:46):
so that tells the recipient use page. Well, let's just
go for a reference here, use page sixteen of your pad.
And that way, uh, you know, you write down the
message in the pad that you can decode it on
that page and and that then becomes useless. You can't
use it again. Yeah, you then destroy that page. So
here's here's how here's how it works. Let's say that
(10:08):
I want to send a message to Chris, and I
want to use this this one time pad method. All right,
So we would each have a pad that would have
a string of random letters across each line, all right,
And let's say we group them in in groups of five,
because that's pretty common of four or five. So we'll
(10:28):
say we have groups of five letters. And these letters
are truly random in that we've had some sort of
well as close to truly random as we can get.
We've had some sort of random number generator that has
picked random letters, and it's just that we each have
a copy of that output. So Chris's string of random
letters is the same as my string of random letters.
(10:50):
And then I write down my message in normal text,
and I write my normal letters above the letters of
the that's that's in the key. Then I convert my
letters into numbers. So let's say that an A equals zero,
and a B equals one, and a C equals Three's
(11:12):
not going to take them very long to pick this
one apart. No, it's going to take them a long
time because here's the here's the that's just that. All
that is is just uh, it's just a simple substitution cipher. Right,
But here's the tricky part. So then I take my key,
all right, and I convert all of those letters to numbers.
That's when it gets harder. And then I add the
(11:33):
two numbers together, all right, So I add the I
add the number from my first letter. So let's say
that my first letter is H. Because I I write,
hey there, Chris, I take the number from H. Yeah really,
why not? All right? You know, hey there, Chris, there's
a rusky on your tail. That's that's my message. So
H is because I'm going back to the Cold War
(11:56):
so so H, we would convert H to a number,
and then we look at the first letter in the key.
Let's say that the first letter in the key is
an M. Well, that M is going to have its
own number of value. We add the H and the
M values together and then we convert that into a
new letter. So, if it's anything up to if we
if A is zero, if it's anything up to twenty five,
(12:16):
then that's the letter that we would pick. If it's
over twenty five, then we just use number twenty six
counts as zero. Again, so the number twenty six would
be an A, twenty seven would be a B, twenty
eight would be a C. So we go up there
and we we put in whatever the substitute letter will be. Well,
the only way to know what the original letter is
(12:39):
is if you have that one time pad in front
of you where you take the value of the letter
that is uh, the represented letter, the ciphered letter. You
subtract the value of the key from the ciphered letter,
and that gives you the value of the original letter,
and then you can convert that into the original letter.
(13:00):
So the process of coding and decoding is pretty painstaking
because you know you have to you have to convert
all the letters to values, add and then make new letters.
But the nice thing is is that because as long
as you keep that that string of letters that acts
as your key truly random, and that you don't repeat letters,
(13:22):
so that you don't or you don't repeat strings, like
you don't go to the end of a page and
then start at the top again. As long as you
avoid that, it is impossible to crack that without without
getting possession of one of those pads. So that's where
we talk about. If you follow this correctly, it is unbreakable.
The correctly. By correctly we mean you you have truly
(13:44):
random string for your key, you do not repeat the key,
and you do not let the key fall into the
wrong hands. As long as that happens, it is unbreakable.
So it's kind of like when we talked about the
the the various ways of ciphering. You know, there always
seems to be some way to crack the code. In
(14:07):
this case, unless you have physical possession of the pad
or if someone uses a key that repeats, it's just
not practical. So that's that's the basis for the secret messages.
Um what those secret messages are. We can't say, because again,
unless someone gets hold of one of those pads, then
(14:28):
it is it's just meaningless numbers. I mean, you could
convert those two letters, but all that's going to do
is give you the product of those those two like
the original message and the key. Without having the key,
you can't figure out what the original messages. We've got
a little bit more to count on, but before we
get there, we're gonna take another quick break to thank
(14:49):
our sponsor. Now, UM, it is likely to that the well,
we talked about that in the Enigma machine, how the
German codes during World War Two were broken down into
(15:09):
those UM five letter combinations UM as an added layer
of security. These these combinations stand in for other words too,
So it is possible that you know, even if you
did break the code, you would also have to have
the book that explains what these these letter combinations mean.
(15:30):
But UM still would never Well, that's what I'm saying
if if you for some reason, if you maybe right,
or if they use a repeating key, because if they
use a repeating key, then it would take a lot
of animal you would have to analyze the heck out
of the message. But you could potentially start detecting patterns. Well,
that's what broke the enigma exactly, because they were they
(15:50):
got lazy, lazy, and they started using repeating keys as
opposed to using a key that just doesn't repeat, which
would have been impossible to crack. So it's just an
added layer of uh security. That's that just makes it
much more difficult. So they do these repetitions over and
over again. Um and it's uh. The thing is, the
the tone and the style of the broadcasts is really
(16:14):
really creepy, especially when you add that spy layer in
your head to it. You start going, this message is
not intended for me, and and somebody could be doing something.
You know, I could be listening, well, this is what
I think, you know, I'm you know, listening to it.
Going I could be listening to a message that tells
somebody to kill somebody else, right, this could be a
message saying to like And then think about this. You
(16:37):
hear those messages and then maybe a week later, you
hear about some massive political event that takes place in
the country, and you think, is there any connection to
what I heard? And what just happened is what I
heard was that was that ah essentially a prediction for
what actually unfolded, and yeah, it's it's kind of I mean,
(16:57):
it is definitely creepy. And there are a lot of
really cool names for these various broadcasts, some of which
are named after the music that they use. Yeah, and again, um,
in some cases you could kind of some of them,
the station's sort of semi identify themselves, and others I
think are given sort of like the stars, you know,
(17:19):
or viruses. They're given the names of their discoverers want
to name them. Yeah, so there's um, there's One of
the famous ones is the Lincolnshire Poacher. Yeah, which was
was featured not too long ago as of the recording
of this podcast. On another podcast called The Skeptics Guide
to the Universe, they have a little feature where it's
called Who's that Noisy? And they which which is named
(17:44):
after one of the one of the hosts has a
daughter who would say who's that noisy? As in what's
making that noise? Right? So anyway, Who's that Noisy is
the name of the segment where they'll play a sound
file and it's the listeners job to try and figure
out what that sound file is, and they play the
little musical, Uh, prelude that would happen before the numbers
(18:05):
broadcast on the number station Lincolnshire poacher do do do
Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do do do
doo And it's really creepy when you hear it over
and over again. Um And anyway, that particular broadcast has
been linked to Cyprus, to the Royal Air Force based
on Cyprus, and is believed, though there's no proof because
(18:28):
there's no one actually coming out and saying this is true,
that it was operated by the British Secret Intelligence Service
out of Cyprus. Now that particular station is no longer active.
I think it stopped broadcasting in neither two or two
thousand nine. But there are a few others that also
were pretty famous. Cherry Ripe, there's a song Cherry Ripe,
(18:50):
another British folk song which was a station somewhere in
Australia or Australia if you prefer. There's Swedish Rhapsody, which
is possibly the freepious thing I have ever heard in
my life, which is a there's a glockenspield that's playing
and a ace. The voice is clearly that of a
female child reading out numbers in Germany and you just
(19:15):
hear this Glockenspield play and then this little girl reading
out numbers in German, and it is you can't help
but feel a deep sense of foreboding. But then there's
also other ones called like the Mad Violinist and the
Boardman because apparently it's just for two seven eight that
(19:43):
that's kind of how I would be, Like like day one,
I'd be all creepy, and day two I'd be you know,
less creepy, and day three I just be like three six,
What am I gonna have for dinner tonight? For I
gotta pick up the dry leading to read the message
(20:05):
you're not getting anything for dinner. Um, yeah, there are
there are a number of places number UM where you
can if you don't happen to have a short wave radio,
where you can pick up on these. Um the Internet
archive of course, which collects all sorts of strange and
esoteric things. UM. There are many many recordings that you
(20:28):
can listen to on there. And actually the first place
that I encountered these was in an article in Wired magazine,
which I went back and revisited UM for for this,
and they were categorizing this Russian station UVB seventy six,
which had been broadcasting essentially the same thing for many,
(20:48):
many years until one day it stopped and then started again,
and then stopped again, and then you could hear so
it sounded like somebody in the room with the microphone, uh,
you know, just you know, too creepy stuffling stuff and
banging around. And then it started broadcasting something else, and
(21:09):
and they changed the call numbers at the station to
something entirely different. It makes me wonder if the guy
was just asking for toilet paper and it finally arrived,
he's like, now blue jeans, blue ge Well you can
you can still listen to this at UVB dash seven
six dot net and you can go and visit that
(21:30):
website and they will tell you. The enthusiasts who keep
track of these things will will share information about the
station and what it changed too, but very very weird stuff. Well,
I think is funny is that a lot of the
people who are following numbers stations, who really have a
passion for listening to them and finding them on on
(21:50):
shortwave radio, they don't want to have the mystery solved
because it would mean their hobby would be over. Well,
I mean it even um and formation about this. This
is kind of something that is operated for so many years. Uh,
if you will pardon the radio punt under the radar.
I mean, it's it's not something that the general public
(22:10):
knew anything about up until the last handful of years,
which is kind of ironic considering it was going on
through the Cold War and before that, and and and
now after most of it has stopped anyhow. Uh. It
even made an appearance in an episode of Lost. I understand.
I never was really much of a fan of the show,
but I think it's cool that they put that into
(22:32):
the show's UM storyline, that there was a number station
involved with uh, with the plot line UM, and of
course that was about codes and code breaking and creepiness
and all sorts of stuff, so it fit right in. UM.
So yeah, I mean it's it's fascinating. But the people
who watched Lost, you know, wanted the mystery to unravel
(22:57):
over time. They didn't want it solved immediately. And I
think for for the people who followed they these number stations,
it's the same kind of thing. They don't and you
kind of want to know. But then I don't know,
if you've ever read a book where you didn't want
the story to end, and you just stopped reading because
you just enjoyed the fact that it was still going on,
(23:17):
and you didn't really want to know quite what was
going on, although you knew it had an end and
somebody was behind it. I don't want to know, So
I've done that many times, or slowed very very slow
way down, you know, um, because you don't want to
find out, because then you know your fun ends. So
(23:38):
I don't know very interesting stuff. Jonathan has been researching
something as we're talking, and he's got this mysterious look
on his face. Yeah. Yeah, no, creepy, I'm saying it
is creepy. Uh yeah, I mean these are These are
definitely one of those things that I hope stick around
(24:02):
just for the sake of perpetuating this kind of air
of mystery, because you think about it, you're like, Okay,
first of all, let me get this clear. Our world
is amazing and the universe is astounding. But even so,
there are days where you feel like you're living in
a pretty mundane kind of existence, and then you find
out about number stations and you're like, there's a whole
(24:23):
level operating just under the surface that I've always suspected
but never really proven, and now I know there's something
to it. Then you're like, hey, our world is amazing again.
By the way, our world is amazing, whether there's number
stations or not. It's just that occasionally we have to
be reminded of it. Puppies boom. Alright, so shout out
(24:43):
to the parent company. Uh, guys, that kind of wraps
up our discussion on number stations. I wish we could
tell you more, but frankly, there's just nothing official. We
can't you know, we we can speculate all we like,
but we can't really, uh say for sure. Now, I
think I think it's fair, really safe to say that
if these are encoded messages, which I can't imagine them
(25:05):
being anything else, I think it's improbable that they're not. Yeah,
it's hard to it's hard to come up with a
set of circumstances where sus a string of numbers isn't
meaningful in any other way that if they are encoded messages,
that this is some form of espionage. I mean, at
least some form of secret communication. And it's one way.
(25:27):
I mean, these are broadcasts that are going out. It's
not that we're receiving answers from from another one. It's
also I mean, they're they're regular, they're they're broadcast usually
at regular intervals, like on the hour or on every
quarter hour or whatever. So you know, I think it's
pretty safe to say these are some form of of
espionage communication. And that wraps up our episode about number stations. Boy,
(25:52):
those things are super interesting and creepy. And if you
ever really want to go down rabbit hole, do a
search for number stations. There are lots of recordings out there,
and they all are pretty unsettling. It's kind of like
the stuff you would hear in a Blumhouse horror movie,
(26:12):
So make sure you go and check those out if
you haven't before. Meanwhile, if you have any suggestions for
future episodes of tech Stuff, send me a message. The
email address you can use is text stuff at how
stuff works dot com, or you can pop on over
to our website that's tech Stuff podcast dot com. That's
gonna have links to our social media as well as
(26:34):
our archived episodes, and of course to our online store,
and every purchase you make there goes to help the show.
We greatly appreciate it, and I'll talk to you again.
Release it for more on this and thousands of other
topics because it how stuff works. Dot Com three
Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how
stuff Works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff.
I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with
How Stuff Works and I heart radio and allow of
all things tech. And today it's time for another classic episode.
This episode originally aired on April two thousand twelve, and
(00:29):
it's called Tech Stuff Counts Some Number Stations. This was
one of those fun, creepy topics that Chris and I
tackled in the early days of tech Stuff, one that
I found absolutely fascinating and more than a little unnerving.
I hope you guys enjoy. So the topic we're covering
(00:53):
is numbers stations, which actually comes to us courtesy of
some feedback we received on Facebook, which I fortunately, due
to my computer being silly right now, I cannot pull up. However,
this is Facebook feedback asking us to cover numbers stations.
And you may wonder, oh, my, Drew Geese, what a
(01:14):
number stations is? Things being so scory and people being
quick to forget. That's that's like a double reference right there,
since I throw in some clockwork orange. So here's what
a number station is. It is a radio station. Using
shortwave radio that blasts out a transmission, usually at a
(01:35):
very regular interval, that normally has some sort of tone
or even music to it, followed by a series of
numbers spoken in sort of a semi monotone voice, sometimes
an automated voice, in fact, very often an automated voice.
And it's just a seemingly random string of numbers that
(01:58):
have no particular context or meaning to them, and it
has created quite a kind of a well a hobbyist
dream come true really for people who like mysteries, because
there's no official explanation as to what these stations are
and why why these numbers are being broadcast. Here's what
(02:19):
we know. No, I'm kidding. Now, let's go to what
we can speculate on. Um. We do know that official
governments have there. There's no official government that has spoken
up and said, oh, yeah, we did that. Yeah. The
closest was a Czechoslovakian official who acknowledge receipt of a
(02:40):
message about numbers stations, but did not It did not
go so far as to actually say what the number
station was, what it was for. It essentially was just
that I got your message. That was pretty much it.
The check is in the mail. There you go. But gosh,
I can't believe you're waiting an entire time for me
to shut up, So you can use that. Uh, however, uh,
(03:01):
there are fewer now than their word during the Cold War. Yeah,
and they started the height of they started appearing during
the World wars. So world War One, Yeah, not not.
You know, this is the early part of the earlier
part of the twentieth century. Yeah, first, first couple of
decades of the twentieth century, that's when they start popping up.
(03:21):
So let's talk a little bit about about why a
number station is even possible before we get into what
they were and what they sound like and all that
kind of stuff. So first, they are short wave radio,
which we have talked about on a previous podcast many
many years ago. Yeah, we'll do a quick we'll do
a quick refresher course. So technically, a short wave is
(03:44):
a is a radio wave with a wavelength shorter than
two hundred meters twos wavelength would have a frequency of
around hurts uh, and it's typically these these radio waves
are used to broadcast voice and music, but also for
long distance communication. The reason that you can have long
distance communication is that these wavelengths are at sort of
(04:07):
a sweet spot when it comes to the way the
Earth works. So the Earth has the ionosphere, you know,
that surrounds it, binds it, and penetrates it. For no
ionosphere just surrounds the Earth. And if you were to
aim a short wave radio frequency at the ionosphere, uh,
the ionosphere would refract that frequency and it would beam
(04:30):
back down to Earth. So by bouncing it effectively off
the ionosphere, you can send a radio signal much further
than you could if it were to just broadcast out
and radiate out from a tower. Yes, So with this
in mind, with this long distance communication ability, it has
opened up opportunities for lots of different applications. And you know,
(04:53):
you'll hear about amateur radio enthusiasts who will just they'll
they'll use their their radios to dial in and listen
to the various broadcasts that go out there. And that's
really how number stations were discovered. It was mainly hobbyists
who as they were scanning the different bands and listening
to what was out there, they were coming across these
(05:14):
very odd sort of transmissions. And um, before I get
too far, I should say the the whole refraction by
the ionosphere. There's a specific name for that kind of
transmission that I love. I love this term skywave propagation.
It's a cool term. Right. So, yeah, you've got these
(05:36):
hobbists who are listening in and they would come across
a very unusual and frankly pretty creepy kind of transmission
in some cases. And uh, I think we even have
an example that we can listen to. So let's let's
take a quick listen to what a typical number station
might sound like if you were to tune in on
(05:59):
a shortwave radio kind of gets you right here done.
If by the by right here you mean now I'm
looking over my shoulder and waiting for someone to break
(06:20):
into the room. Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm thinking.
There is something particularly creepy about hearing kind of a
almost and almost like a harmonic. It sounds like there's
been some harmonic supplied in some cases, like it's an
automated voice or whatever, but hearing something like that monotone
just delivering number after number, and then they really repetitious
music that was used to introduce these So what could
(06:44):
these be? And there's been a lot of people who
have suggested what number stations might be all about, Um,
you know, the everything from it could just be uh
stuff for people who are surveying areas for for cartography
and that kind of thing, but that doesn't seem likely.
Of No one is taking credit for it, not at all.
(07:06):
So that's our cartography channel that has led to uh
to some not so much conspiracy theories. It really does
boil down to, well, if you're just broadcasting numbers with
no other context, why could you possibly be doing that for?
And one of the explanations is that it's a a
way to communicate two spies to undercover operatives who might
(07:28):
be uh invested in some foreign country, perhaps one that
is unfriendly to the the the country of origin and
so there. And when we say there's number stations, there
are number of stations all over the world, and they're
broadcasting pretty much all the languages that you might expect.
(07:49):
They would be in the major languages of the world.
So it's not just that, you know, it's not just
one country that's doing this. There there's multiple countries that
are doing it. And UH so this speculation is that
this is these are messages they're sent to government spies.
UH and these. You know, the governments aren't admitting to
it for for pretty understandable reasons. I would say, well,
(08:14):
if you or any of your team has captured, the
government will disavow any knowledge of this operations, message will
self destructed. Fifteen seconds. Don't count us out yet. We
still have a bit more to say about counting stations.
But first let's take a quick break to thank our sponsor.
(08:39):
The So these messages, the numbers those, that's a code,
it's an it's encoded message. Form of cryptography that is
called the the the one pad note yeah, or or
one time pad yeah. Um yeah. I'm interested in cryptography,
uh and have been reading about it for many years.
(09:00):
And this is not exactly a new thing. It doesn't
even require the use of a computer. I mean, we
talked about cryptography on many podcasts at different levels. Um
and we even got into quantum cryptography, which is supposedly unbreakable,
although I've seen reports recently that it may not necessarily
be unbreakable. Well, one time pads are technically unbreakable if
(09:24):
you follow the right procedure right because basically, um and
they were called pads because at one time they were
and probably still are a pad. So this pad is
generated like a pad of paper. You uh write down
your message and encode it on this paper using the
tool um. And it's a one time thing. And there's
a part of the key is embedded in the message,
(09:46):
so that tells the recipient use page. Well, let's just
go for a reference here, use page sixteen of your pad.
And that way, uh, you know, you write down the
message in the pad that you can decode it on
that page and and that then becomes useless. You can't
use it again. Yeah, you then destroy that page. So
here's here's how here's how it works. Let's say that
(10:08):
I want to send a message to Chris, and I
want to use this this one time pad method. All right,
So we would each have a pad that would have
a string of random letters across each line, all right,
And let's say we group them in in groups of five,
because that's pretty common of four or five. So we'll
(10:28):
say we have groups of five letters. And these letters
are truly random in that we've had some sort of
well as close to truly random as we can get.
We've had some sort of random number generator that has
picked random letters, and it's just that we each have
a copy of that output. So Chris's string of random
letters is the same as my string of random letters.
(10:50):
And then I write down my message in normal text,
and I write my normal letters above the letters of
the that's that's in the key. Then I convert my
letters into numbers. So let's say that an A equals zero,
and a B equals one, and a C equals Three's
(11:12):
not going to take them very long to pick this
one apart. No, it's going to take them a long
time because here's the here's the that's just that. All
that is is just uh, it's just a simple substitution cipher. Right,
But here's the tricky part. So then I take my key,
all right, and I convert all of those letters to numbers.
That's when it gets harder. And then I add the
(11:33):
two numbers together, all right, So I add the I
add the number from my first letter. So let's say
that my first letter is H. Because I I write,
hey there, Chris, I take the number from H. Yeah really,
why not? All right? You know, hey there, Chris, there's
a rusky on your tail. That's that's my message. So
H is because I'm going back to the Cold War
(11:56):
so so H, we would convert H to a number,
and then we look at the first letter in the key.
Let's say that the first letter in the key is
an M. Well, that M is going to have its
own number of value. We add the H and the
M values together and then we convert that into a
new letter. So, if it's anything up to if we
if A is zero, if it's anything up to twenty five,
(12:16):
then that's the letter that we would pick. If it's
over twenty five, then we just use number twenty six
counts as zero. Again, so the number twenty six would
be an A, twenty seven would be a B, twenty
eight would be a C. So we go up there
and we we put in whatever the substitute letter will be. Well,
the only way to know what the original letter is
(12:39):
is if you have that one time pad in front
of you where you take the value of the letter
that is uh, the represented letter, the ciphered letter. You
subtract the value of the key from the ciphered letter,
and that gives you the value of the original letter,
and then you can convert that into the original letter.
(13:00):
So the process of coding and decoding is pretty painstaking
because you know you have to you have to convert
all the letters to values, add and then make new letters.
But the nice thing is is that because as long
as you keep that that string of letters that acts
as your key truly random, and that you don't repeat letters,
(13:22):
so that you don't or you don't repeat strings, like
you don't go to the end of a page and
then start at the top again. As long as you
avoid that, it is impossible to crack that without without
getting possession of one of those pads. So that's where
we talk about. If you follow this correctly, it is unbreakable.
The correctly. By correctly we mean you you have truly
(13:44):
random string for your key, you do not repeat the key,
and you do not let the key fall into the
wrong hands. As long as that happens, it is unbreakable.
So it's kind of like when we talked about the
the the various ways of ciphering. You know, there always
seems to be some way to crack the code. In
(14:07):
this case, unless you have physical possession of the pad
or if someone uses a key that repeats, it's just
not practical. So that's that's the basis for the secret messages.
Um what those secret messages are. We can't say, because again,
unless someone gets hold of one of those pads, then
(14:28):
it is it's just meaningless numbers. I mean, you could
convert those two letters, but all that's going to do
is give you the product of those those two like
the original message and the key. Without having the key,
you can't figure out what the original messages. We've got
a little bit more to count on, but before we
get there, we're gonna take another quick break to thank
(14:49):
our sponsor. Now, UM, it is likely to that the well,
we talked about that in the Enigma machine, how the
German codes during World War Two were broken down into
(15:09):
those UM five letter combinations UM as an added layer
of security. These these combinations stand in for other words too,
So it is possible that you know, even if you
did break the code, you would also have to have
the book that explains what these these letter combinations mean.
(15:30):
But UM still would never Well, that's what I'm saying
if if you for some reason, if you maybe right,
or if they use a repeating key, because if they
use a repeating key, then it would take a lot
of animal you would have to analyze the heck out
of the message. But you could potentially start detecting patterns. Well,
that's what broke the enigma exactly, because they were they
(15:50):
got lazy, lazy, and they started using repeating keys as
opposed to using a key that just doesn't repeat, which
would have been impossible to crack. So it's just an
added layer of uh security. That's that just makes it
much more difficult. So they do these repetitions over and
over again. Um and it's uh. The thing is, the
the tone and the style of the broadcasts is really
(16:14):
really creepy, especially when you add that spy layer in
your head to it. You start going, this message is
not intended for me, and and somebody could be doing something.
You know, I could be listening, well, this is what
I think, you know, I'm you know, listening to it.
Going I could be listening to a message that tells
somebody to kill somebody else, right, this could be a
message saying to like And then think about this. You
(16:37):
hear those messages and then maybe a week later, you
hear about some massive political event that takes place in
the country, and you think, is there any connection to
what I heard? And what just happened is what I
heard was that was that ah essentially a prediction for
what actually unfolded, and yeah, it's it's kind of I mean,
(16:57):
it is definitely creepy. And there are a lot of
really cool names for these various broadcasts, some of which
are named after the music that they use. Yeah, and again, um,
in some cases you could kind of some of them,
the station's sort of semi identify themselves, and others I
think are given sort of like the stars, you know,
(17:19):
or viruses. They're given the names of their discoverers want
to name them. Yeah, so there's um, there's One of
the famous ones is the Lincolnshire Poacher. Yeah, which was
was featured not too long ago as of the recording
of this podcast. On another podcast called The Skeptics Guide
to the Universe, they have a little feature where it's
called Who's that Noisy? And they which which is named
(17:44):
after one of the one of the hosts has a
daughter who would say who's that noisy? As in what's
making that noise? Right? So anyway, Who's that Noisy is
the name of the segment where they'll play a sound
file and it's the listeners job to try and figure
out what that sound file is, and they play the
little musical, Uh, prelude that would happen before the numbers
(18:05):
broadcast on the number station Lincolnshire poacher do do do
Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do do do
doo And it's really creepy when you hear it over
and over again. Um And anyway, that particular broadcast has
been linked to Cyprus, to the Royal Air Force based
on Cyprus, and is believed, though there's no proof because
(18:28):
there's no one actually coming out and saying this is true,
that it was operated by the British Secret Intelligence Service
out of Cyprus. Now that particular station is no longer active.
I think it stopped broadcasting in neither two or two
thousand nine. But there are a few others that also
were pretty famous. Cherry Ripe, there's a song Cherry Ripe,
(18:50):
another British folk song which was a station somewhere in
Australia or Australia if you prefer. There's Swedish Rhapsody, which
is possibly the freepious thing I have ever heard in
my life, which is a there's a glockenspield that's playing
and a ace. The voice is clearly that of a
female child reading out numbers in Germany and you just
(19:15):
hear this Glockenspield play and then this little girl reading
out numbers in German, and it is you can't help
but feel a deep sense of foreboding. But then there's
also other ones called like the Mad Violinist and the
Boardman because apparently it's just for two seven eight that
(19:43):
that's kind of how I would be, Like like day one,
I'd be all creepy, and day two I'd be you know,
less creepy, and day three I just be like three six,
What am I gonna have for dinner tonight? For I
gotta pick up the dry leading to read the message
(20:05):
you're not getting anything for dinner. Um, yeah, there are
there are a number of places number UM where you
can if you don't happen to have a short wave radio,
where you can pick up on these. Um the Internet
archive of course, which collects all sorts of strange and
esoteric things. UM. There are many many recordings that you
(20:28):
can listen to on there. And actually the first place
that I encountered these was in an article in Wired magazine,
which I went back and revisited UM for for this,
and they were categorizing this Russian station UVB seventy six,
which had been broadcasting essentially the same thing for many,
(20:48):
many years until one day it stopped and then started again,
and then stopped again, and then you could hear so
it sounded like somebody in the room with the microphone, uh,
you know, just you know, too creepy stuffling stuff and
banging around. And then it started broadcasting something else, and
(21:09):
and they changed the call numbers at the station to
something entirely different. It makes me wonder if the guy
was just asking for toilet paper and it finally arrived,
he's like, now blue jeans, blue ge Well you can
you can still listen to this at UVB dash seven
six dot net and you can go and visit that
(21:30):
website and they will tell you. The enthusiasts who keep
track of these things will will share information about the
station and what it changed too, but very very weird stuff. Well,
I think is funny is that a lot of the
people who are following numbers stations, who really have a
passion for listening to them and finding them on on
(21:50):
shortwave radio, they don't want to have the mystery solved
because it would mean their hobby would be over. Well,
I mean it even um and formation about this. This
is kind of something that is operated for so many years. Uh,
if you will pardon the radio punt under the radar.
I mean, it's it's not something that the general public
(22:10):
knew anything about up until the last handful of years,
which is kind of ironic considering it was going on
through the Cold War and before that, and and and
now after most of it has stopped anyhow. Uh. It
even made an appearance in an episode of Lost. I understand.
I never was really much of a fan of the show,
but I think it's cool that they put that into
(22:32):
the show's UM storyline, that there was a number station
involved with uh, with the plot line UM, and of
course that was about codes and code breaking and creepiness
and all sorts of stuff, so it fit right in. UM.
So yeah, I mean it's it's fascinating. But the people
who watched Lost, you know, wanted the mystery to unravel
(22:57):
over time. They didn't want it solved immediately. And I
think for for the people who followed they these number stations,
it's the same kind of thing. They don't and you
kind of want to know. But then I don't know,
if you've ever read a book where you didn't want
the story to end, and you just stopped reading because
you just enjoyed the fact that it was still going on,
(23:17):
and you didn't really want to know quite what was
going on, although you knew it had an end and
somebody was behind it. I don't want to know, So
I've done that many times, or slowed very very slow
way down, you know, um, because you don't want to
find out, because then you know your fun ends. So
(23:38):
I don't know very interesting stuff. Jonathan has been researching
something as we're talking, and he's got this mysterious look
on his face. Yeah. Yeah, no, creepy, I'm saying it
is creepy. Uh yeah, I mean these are These are
definitely one of those things that I hope stick around
(24:02):
just for the sake of perpetuating this kind of air
of mystery, because you think about it, you're like, Okay,
first of all, let me get this clear. Our world
is amazing and the universe is astounding. But even so,
there are days where you feel like you're living in
a pretty mundane kind of existence, and then you find
out about number stations and you're like, there's a whole
(24:23):
level operating just under the surface that I've always suspected
but never really proven, and now I know there's something
to it. Then you're like, hey, our world is amazing again.
By the way, our world is amazing, whether there's number
stations or not. It's just that occasionally we have to
be reminded of it. Puppies boom. Alright, so shout out
(24:43):
to the parent company. Uh, guys, that kind of wraps
up our discussion on number stations. I wish we could
tell you more, but frankly, there's just nothing official. We
can't you know, we we can speculate all we like,
but we can't really, uh say for sure. Now, I
think I think it's fair, really safe to say that
if these are encoded messages, which I can't imagine them
(25:05):
being anything else, I think it's improbable that they're not. Yeah,
it's hard to it's hard to come up with a
set of circumstances where sus a string of numbers isn't
meaningful in any other way that if they are encoded messages,
that this is some form of espionage. I mean, at
least some form of secret communication. And it's one way.
(25:27):
I mean, these are broadcasts that are going out. It's
not that we're receiving answers from from another one. It's
also I mean, they're they're regular, they're they're broadcast usually
at regular intervals, like on the hour or on every
quarter hour or whatever. So you know, I think it's
pretty safe to say these are some form of of
espionage communication. And that wraps up our episode about number stations. Boy,
(25:52):
those things are super interesting and creepy. And if you
ever really want to go down rabbit hole, do a
search for number stations. There are lots of recordings out there,
and they all are pretty unsettling. It's kind of like
the stuff you would hear in a Blumhouse horror movie,
(26:12):
So make sure you go and check those out if
you haven't before. Meanwhile, if you have any suggestions for
future episodes of tech Stuff, send me a message. The
email address you can use is text stuff at how
stuff works dot com, or you can pop on over
to our website that's tech Stuff podcast dot com. That's
gonna have links to our social media as well as
(26:34):
our archived episodes, and of course to our online store,
and every purchase you make there goes to help the show.
We greatly appreciate it, and I'll talk to you again.
Release it for more on this and thousands of other
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