13 Going On 30 with Melissa Lozada-Oliva

Jamie and Caitlin make a wish that they will get to chat with special guest Melissa Lozada-Oliva about 13 Going on 30, and their wish magically comes true! Recorded live at the Bell House in Brooklyn!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everybody, you know who it is. It's us. You're
about to hear our thirteen going on thirty episode that
we recorded live in New York City. I've heard of
it with special guest Melissa Lozada Oliva. Yes, and we
also did a thirteen going on thirty episode that we
recorded live in d C. We say pretty much the

(00:20):
same thing during both shows, but we also wanted to
release part of the DC episode, like the highlights, some
parts that we like, we dug a little deeper into
the discussion, uh, and then the audience questions also from
that episode, So if you want to give that a listen,
we're releasing that on our Patreon ak Matreon. You don't

(00:41):
have to be a subscriber to hear it. We're just
kind of making it accessible to everyone if you want
to get a little deeper into it. So we'll tweet
out the link for that, and also if you go
to patreon dot com slash batel cast, it will be
available there. Yeah, it'll be somewhere and just look for it. Yeah,
just find it. So that's a bonus if you want it.
In the meantime, please enjoy our live New York City
show with Melissa on the Dog Cast. The questions asked

(01:06):
if movies have wenen and all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands, or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zefan
best start changing it with the bel Cast. What's up,
brook Clean, Welcome. I've always wanted to say that, what's

(01:29):
up Brooklyn? Yeah, you did a great job. Thank you,
thank you for coming. Welcome, y'alls, welcome to the Beck
Dol Cast. It's us. Okay, I'm Caitlin. Sorry for that
weird thing I just said. I'm Jamie. Uh yeah, we're
so stoked to be here at the Bell House our

(01:51):
first time here. Um, yeah, how are you? We just
we haven't seen each other in like a week, which
is longer than years. You have bangs, now I have bangs.
I thank you for the cheer for my bangs. That's correct.
The story with my bangs, not that anyone asked, is

(02:11):
that my my boyfriend and my dog. This doesn't pass
the becktels. I was just gonna say this might have
been a good example, but no, listen, I hate feminism.
I my boyfriend and my dog are in Wisconsin for
three months for a job he has, and so I
reacted by becoming my own dog. And I have truly

(02:36):
the exact same haircut as my dog. He has floppy ears,
and I'm my own I'm actually my own boyfriend and
my own dog. And that's my feminism. Just getting a
miserable I think, well, some of that passed the Bechtel test.
My dog's a man, I know, and he's a cock

(02:58):
or spaniel. I know. What's the Bechtel test. It's a
media test that you applied to I don't know, for
our sake, movies dog anecdotes. That requires that a movie
has two named female identifying characters to talk to each

(03:22):
other about something other than a man. Yeah, clap. If
you have listened to the Vectel cast before, this is great, awesome.
That is a trick called free applause. Um curious clap.
If you have not listened to the show before and
you have been dragged here, no shame, okay, trash canceled,

(03:45):
bad hates women? Got it? Interesting? Um cool? Well, we
just always want to shut out the people who drag
people in their lives to the show. They are the true,
the true soldiers. Yes, so, if you haven't heard the
show before, we take a specific movie every episode and

(04:07):
analyze it through the lens of how does it treat
and portray women. Yeah, for most movies, if you listen
to the show before, it bad bad, almost universally always bad.
I'm so excited for the movie we're talking about tonight.
It's it was one of my favorite movies growing up.

(04:27):
We're time about thirteen going on thirty. Um uh peak,
Jennifer Garner argue, unless you're what was that superhero? Juno
was the correct answer. I was trying to think of
Dared and wait was it dar? No Electric Electro? Yes,

(04:50):
that was the bad movie. I couldn't think of the
name of that joke. Wasn't worth the journey? Thank you though,
But yeah, I'm so excited and I'm really, really really
excited for our guest tonight. Let's bring her out. Yes,
she is a poet. She's the author of Polluta. She's
a co host of Stay More podcast. It's Melissa Losatta Oliva. Welcome, Hi, everybody.

(05:18):
What's up? Nothing? I made my hair look like I
was one of the six chicks. Yeah, you're but there's
only six chicks. If there was seven, something something something
that goes against stath or I don't know something classic
Matt Matt. Yeah. I was watching this and I was like,

(05:39):
this is when I started only dating people named Matt,
even if their name wasn't Matt, their name was somehow Matt.
It was yeah. Spiritually after that, a lot of math.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that feels about right. Thank you
so much for being here. You're here. What is your
history with this movie? I think that my history of

(06:01):
this movie is my like developing unrealistic expectations for the
men I was seeing, more so that they like none
of them were Mark Ruffalo. Um. Yeah, I was watching that.
I was like, oh, this is when it started. That's
my only cornerstone its Mark Ruffalo. So I guess I
don't pass the back gold tests in my life there. Yeah. Yeah.

(06:25):
I think this movie came out two thousand three or
four four four, right right at the part where she's like,
here's the idea for the magazine, right, all, I know
the only history I have my girls? Yeah cool. Um,

(06:46):
so it was like the perfect time for this movie
to come out. And we're the same age, so I
feel like it was it was like peak. Like any
movie that about teenagers is directed at ten year olds
basically yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And so when this movie,
I was like ready to take everything that happened in
this movie is complete gospel and what I wanted in
my life. I was. I was especially affected by the

(07:08):
fact that she was dating a hockey player because my
dad was a hockey writer prom side brag local publication.
If anyone subscribes to the Patriot Ledger. If you don't,
that's why Prent is dead, and my dead will lose
his job. But he is a hockey writer, and he
always used to be like, someday, I'm gonna hook you

(07:29):
up with a hockey player, even though he didn't have
the power to do so. But I didn't know that.
I was ten. I was like, my dad's all powerful,
and I'm going to funk a hockey player too, And
so I viewed her relationship like I would always be like,
our hockey players really like that. I'm going to have

(07:51):
to tell them to stop stripping the ice ice baby.
Oh I just got that. But hey, I just got
stripped doing ice related songs. I he was a hockey player. Wow,
but no, I mean I like, I saw this movie
in the theaters, loved it, loved it. What about you Caitlin.

(08:12):
I did not see this movie for the first time
until about a year ago, and I watched it because
I was like, we'll probably do this on the Bechtel
Cast someday. I better familiarize myself with it now. And
I was right, So congratulations. First of all, a year later,
here we are. But yeah, I hadn't seen it. It

(08:33):
was a little in two thousand four. I was a
senior in high school, so I had like kind of
age just a few years older than the target demographic,
so I wasn't super interested in seeing it. Also, I
have a pretty big aversion to rom coms. They're not
my genre. Um, but I enjoyed this movie. It's cute, man,

(08:54):
I like, got fully skull fucked by. I like, I mean,
I feel like this is sort of like the tail
end of a very like specific time in rom coms. Um,
We're like this came out the year after Maid in Manhattan.
This is kind of when like j Lo's starting to
transition out of rom coms. At this point, she's doing

(09:16):
Monster in Lawn and she's kind of tapping out right,
I mean, shout out to the JL reference in this movie.
She's on the cover of Boys and yeah, she was
like it when this movie came out, Like how long
before the Devil Wores product came out? Eight seven or

(09:38):
eight something like that. You can tell this movie is
pre recession based on where everyone lives. This movie is
fully pre recession. Yeah, but it also I mean, like
I went back to as I usually do, I went
back to the original coverage of this movie, and it's
two thousand four, so women are not allowed to write

(09:59):
in print yet. So every review, like the Raw Tomatoes
of thirteen going on thirty, is very skewed because it's
written by old dudes who are just like, I don't
fucking get this. Like Roger Ebert, my nemesis, he like
gave us a horrible review. He's just like what like

(10:20):
she'd grabbing her Today's like he's just dumbass. But like
all the reviews around this movie, they basically say that
it is the same thing as Big, which it is not.
It's not the Biggest kind of isn't like creepier like
Big like leans more into like he has sex with
an adult woman boy. But mainly Big goes from like

(10:47):
a twelve year old becoming a thirty year old in
the same era where this is like a flash forward
into the future. And then the other criticism was that
it was too much like Freaky Friday with Lindsay Lohan
and Jamie Lee Curtis, which we will cover over my absolutely,
but but that's like a body swap. That's also different.

(11:07):
I don't know. I think that the main thread is
the iconic moment when the person looks in the mirror
and it's like what they're like, No, yeah, I like
that she grabs her boobs. She grabs her boobs so much,
so much. Okay, well we'll get into this, mored. But

(11:27):
I would argue, and I'm like curious how everyone feels
about this. But we see Jenna Rank at thirteen for
the first fifteen minutes of this movie, and let me
see her flash forward into Jennifer Garner's body. I think
that Jennifer Garner's acting like she's nine years old. I
don't think she's at Like, there are some things she
does and I'm like a thirteen year old would know

(11:50):
how to conduct themselves. I don't know. It's like, why
is the marker for you being like a teen that
you're very clumsy, like you're falling over time? Yeah, rom
coms have to have a beautiful woman Pratt falling all
over the place, all over New York City. Should I
do the recap? Yeah? Okay, So we meet Jenna Rink,

(12:15):
big Time fashion magazine editor. Also her last name? Okay, another,
her last name is Rink and it's a hockey rink.
Oh my god, I didn't catch on. The are thinking
where is the Zamboni representation in movie? She should have

(12:37):
been Janna Zamboni would have been a better movie. Okay, So,
um we meet her. It is the late eighties, it's
her thirteen birthday. Her best friend is Matt Flam half
Flam half I don't know, last name I've never heard,

(13:00):
but she wants to be friends with this group of
popular girls called the Six Chicks. Their leader is Tom Tom.
Was that like Tom Tom Club? Is that why she was?
I don't understand. Yeah. Also in The Six Chicks is
both Brie Larson what and yeah? Yeah? Brie Larson at

(13:22):
like thirteen or fourteen is in this movie. And also
Ashley Benson, who's in Pretty Little Liars is also in
The Six Chicks. The Six Chicks a star studded scene
of non participants. Mark Ruffalo just found out Bree Larson
was in that movie when he was when she was thirteen,

(13:42):
and all the click bait surrounding it was like Mark
Ruffalo is so touched, but you can just see him
like recognize his age and he's like, oh I am
fifty years old. It's a fun way. He's always like
he reacted the way he seems to react to everything,
which is just like confused, like oh really, that's what

(14:06):
he does through the whole movie. Is Mark Ruffalo stupid?
And you might have been person he might be stupid?
I think that, like I don't know if there I mean,
even with his character, it's like any guy that's like yeah,

(14:28):
I love the talking heads and then just stop talking
like stupid. Okay, moving on. So she wants to be
part of the Six Chicks to the extent that she
agrees to do a school project for them so that
they'll have time to come to her birthday party. Basically,

(14:51):
she'll do anything to be cool and popular and to
look like the Women and Poise magazine. She sees an
article in Poise about how being thirty is great, and
she's like, I want to be thirty, Caitlin, say what
it says? It doesn't say thirty is great. It says

(15:17):
thirty and flirty and thriving. Yes, it's exciting, thriving, I think,
And in the context of this movie, thriving is so critical. Yeah,
because if she hadn't specified thriving, we'll get into what
the other timelines could have been. Just being thirty and

(15:40):
flirty is, as we know as older people now, is
not enough. You must one muscles thirty flirting and struggling
students a story of my life. Um. So, her friend
Matt comes over for her birthday party and brings this

(16:01):
dream house that he made for her that is so elaborate,
so elaborate. How long did it take? He said three?
He must have been working at it twelve hours a
day every day for three weeks. But if I bought
it pre made and then just fill it in, so like, yeah,

(16:21):
the cutouts, the furniture, bathtub, Rick Springfield in there. I
honestly don't know who that is, but I kept calling
him in my notes throughout. I call them Rick Springberg,
and then I double checked and corrected the mistake and
then announced it. Jim Gaffigan is like, Rick Springsteen, does

(16:46):
that happen to the movie Jim. Yeah, it's so funny
because all of the people like young people who are
like no one quite matches up with like young person
growing into older person. But it like the disservices throwing
into Jim gaff again. Is it egregious? I think I

(17:08):
think Jim Govian is never going to be on the
Bectel cause I'm not concerned. Oh my god. I think
this movie does a much better job at like matching
the younger counterparts to the adults than say seventeen Again.
When we're supposed to believe the exact Efron turns into
Matthew Perry. It's like the director of seventeen Again must

(17:30):
have secretly hated Zach to be like, no, you know
this is all gonna fall apart. Okay, So he brings
to this dream house and it's covered in wishing dust. Well,
he brings the wishing dust and then he sprinkles it

(17:51):
onto without her consent, true sprinkle of the wishing dust?
Did he get it at like a magic shot or
like like a mysterious old lady. There's a lot of
conspiracy theories I've found online that have ideas about the
wishing I want to know. Yeah, okay, So there's wishing

(18:13):
dust and he sprinkles it on the house. The Six
Chicks show up to the party and Jenna is trying
to seem as cool as possible. But then the six
Chicks ditch the party and I locked her in a
closet because they say it's going to be seven minutes
in heaven with the man who will become jin Gaff again.
But they lock her in a closet, steal her homework,

(18:36):
and right so she burst out and Matt has just
brought his cassio over and she's like, you suck. I
hate you, I hate me. I want to be thirty
and flirty and thriving. It makes people feel good to
say it out loud. Yeah, stay in front of the mirror,

(18:57):
power pose and then some wishing to sprinkles on her,
and then the scene fades out, and then it fades
back up and she wakes up and she is Jennifer.
I appreciated in the design of like the scarf becomes

(19:18):
her sleeping mass design becomes her dress design. Someone thought,
which I appreciated, that like weird design was like a
continuing thing. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, she's been instantly transported
not only into the body of a thirty year old
woman while still having the mind of a thirteen year

(19:39):
old girl. She is now in the year two thousand four.
She is thriving, She's got No one explains the Iraq
War to her at any point in this movie. It's
after nine eleven. Yeah, do we know exactly where she

(19:59):
was living? I think she would notice the Twin Towers
nine eleven and the Iraq War don't matter. At no
point do we see her ask who was the president? No? Also,
this means that she skipped over Shrek. She missed the

(20:23):
whole She didn't see it, right, She hasn't seen There's
so much she hasn't seen. All she cares about is like,
where is Mark Ruffalo? Right, That's what I care about.
So she's got a boyfriend, She's got a nice apartment
in New York City. It's where's that I price checked

(20:45):
her because the name of her building they have it.
When she looks at her envelopes, it's a real building.
That apartment costs three million dollars of course magazine. But
pre I mean like pre recession. True, she's chilling and
he's good. So she is freaking out because she was like,

(21:09):
why do I look like Jennifer Garner? This is weird?
Oh no, I look like Jennifer Garner. My insanely toned arms. What?
So she runs outside and a woman is there who's like,
I'm your best friend. It's Judy Greer. Er. You run outside,

(21:30):
it's Judy Greer. She says, she's your best friend? What
do you do? Get in? She's like, we gotta go
to work. You're an important editor at Poise magazine. And
Jenna is like, I love Poise Magazine. So no one

(21:51):
in this movie is concerned enough about their friend that
is clearly sick. They're is like, she's so hungover. Have
you ever been so hungover? You don't know who you are? Yes?
But it is worn off in a day. It is crazy,

(22:14):
the lack of concern for Jenna's state of mind throughout
this movie. So they get to the office. Andy Circus
is her boss. Yes, I'm sorry. I love Andy Circus.
This is post Golem. By the way, Andy Circus famously

(22:34):
is Golem and nothing else. I love I stand Andy Serkus.
I love him so much. I love that he occasionally
every couple of years is like I have to dance
and I need my face physically, like he's a good dancer.
I love, I love him. Um. Okay, So they're rushed

(22:56):
into a meeting about how another magazine Arkle is like
stealing poises ideas. No right, I love And this is
yet another The trope of magazine editor in rom coms
is alive and well in this movie. Um and also
just like the trope that for me most recently ticks with,

(23:19):
like the Gilmore Girl's revival of a very like weird
understanding of how magazines actually work, of like this one
stole our idea and now we're out of business. We're like, no,
it's two thousand four. Print is already dead, but sure
they're stealing your idea. Okay. So she's still freaking out.

(23:42):
She tracks down her best friend, Matt flam Half and
she shows up at his place and it's Mark Ruffalo,
hot so hot and stupid? I mean, is are cross? Like?
Who are you? This is all I say? So he's like,

(24:04):
what are you doing here? We aren't friends anymore, and
she's like, here's my predicament and and he's also not
that concerned. No, He's like most of all, yeah, and
the only speed yeah are you high another person who
he's like, I'm a photographer, enter my five thousand square

(24:25):
but village apartment. And then he's like, I'm not that successful.
Doesn't And also my hot take is that Matt flam
Half is a shitty photographer. If you're getting hired off
of your high school yearbook, you're a bad photograher. I

(24:49):
mean the photos he takes for Poise look like shit photos.
That's his specialty, Wendy Okay, So he's like, we're not
friends anymore. You became cool and popular in high school
and that's why we don't. We didn't talk anymore. Jenna

(25:10):
learns that she also like distanced herself from her family.
That her best friend currently and colleague at Poise is
Tom Tom from the six d Greer is Tom Tom?
What do you do? Get in the car? There's the
scene where she goes to a work party and live

(25:33):
ends it up by dancing to thriller Man. That's the scene.
The scene and then he comes. He's like, he shows
and he comes from we all come. He comes. Yeah,
that scene was really hard to watch this time around.

(25:55):
I mean so embarrassed. It takes so long to get
people out of Yeah, and she's just like, can you
imagine shimmying yourself childhood friends? And then there's that moment
where he's like I can't do this, I'm too attracted
to you and like leaves. Yeah, He's like, I gotta go.

(26:19):
I'm engaged. Oh my god. Oh yeah. Is a twist
that he has been engaged the entire time and the
wedding is tomorrow. So I feel like this also goes
along with people I've dated, like, oh wait, you're actually
seeing someone else, Matt or other Matts. I'm going to

(26:42):
try to get through this very quick because we've been
talking about the recap for a hundred years. Um, okay,
So things are falling apart. At work, Sparkle is out
selling Poise. They're talking about having to do a redesign
of Poise, and then like Jenna overhears the lucy ak
Tom tom a, Judy Grier is planning to stab her

(27:03):
in the back. Uh. And Jenna also learned that she's
apparently a horrible person who takes her a very long
time to figure it out having an affair. Yeah, oh yeah,
she's fucking her coworkers husband at work. Yeah, he calls
her Pookie behind frosted glass. Gross. So she's bad and

(27:25):
she's like, I'm not going to be a bad person anymore.
So she goes and visits her parents. She hied there
taking horrible photos and then they vibe there vibing they kiss. Yeah,
the spoilers did you a lot of the lion King

(27:45):
thing where they like they leap into a sex position
and then yeah, they're playground for children, for children, which
she is, and they fly on top of each other.
They're like soaring through the air from being on swings
and then they like land on top of each other
and then they're like, oh, you have arm hair. Oh yeah,

(28:10):
I'm sorry, is that not as that's something I say,
that's so fun to give, like a man the lowest
common DENI you have arm hair. They're like yeah, okay.
So then meanwhile she's working very hard on her pitch
for the redesign, which is horrible. It's it's not good,

(28:32):
but not not as bad as Judy Greer's, which is
horrible and disturbing. This like fashion suicide. I'm just like,
we need to be researching bullies. Going on with bullies,
they're growing up to being dangerous. And then Lucy like
steals Matt's photos and Jenna's designs and takes them to

(28:54):
Sparkle and becomes their new editor in chief via snail mail.
And then right and then Jenna learned that she was
the one who was leaking ideas to Sparkle via snail man.
It was two thousand four. They had email, yea, they
had some times there was no WiFi. Snail mail was

(29:16):
still a thing. Okay, I don't know why I'm defending
two thousand four. So then she's like, I suck and
I have to fix this, and she high tails it
to New Jersey because Matt is you do in the
middle of his wedding. Oh. She goes to Wendy's apartment
and when he's like hi, me again, and she's like,
the wedding is tomorrow. Oh my god, because that's why.

(29:38):
It's like, I'm Wendy the fiance and I'm a weather woman.
In case you forgot, sorry, why the wedding is tomorrow?
And then yeah, she takes the Long Island and she
takes a Long Island railroad. She goes to New Jersey.
Whatever the transit, I don't fucking living here. I she

(30:02):
takes a commuter rail of sorts to the correct area
and tries to hashtag stop the wedding. The way Matt
Mark was talking about Wendy was traumatizing. He was she
was like, are you in love? He was like, I
would say we're together, and it's like, you know someone

(30:23):
has said that about you. Yeah, And then he's like
anyone who feels like that's so romantic. It's like, no,
you're on the wrong side of that interaction. You've been
like I would say we're together. Yeah. So yeah. She
tries to be like, I love you, and he's like, well,
I think you're great, but here's the dollhouse that's been

(30:45):
in my room for seventeen years. It because he's a warlock,
best because he's he as that jif, that famous jif
says gift, I'm sorry, guys. He looks down and he's like,
I've always loved you, yes, and then he's like, here,
take this dollhouse back. She goes outside. She has the dollhouse.
They're still wishing dust on it. The wind stirs it up.

(31:06):
I guess it blows on her and then suddenly she's
back as a thirteen year old. She's a front again.
And then she tackles Matt with her face surprised kiss
She's surprised kisses for sure, the young boy. Yeah, and

(31:29):
then she's like, come on, we're gonna be late. Smash
cut to their wedding when they're thirty again, where did
they go to? Is that? What they're late to their
wedding is that? I guess to the rest of their lives.
The stairway is the future. And then they move into

(31:53):
a pink house together and that right, it is Jenna's dreamhouse,
dream house and not why they do that. It's dumb,
but it resonated with me. She's like, do you want
another candy from the eighties? Mr? Full House? What's it?
What is his name? Falstaff? Falstaff, flam half flam half

(32:16):
Flam half flam half. The last two lines of the
movie are calling or when they are calling each other
Mr and Mrs flam half and we're like, yes, no,
Riches the goal forgot, that's the movie. That's the movie.
Either did it something that I was thinking about this

(32:41):
whole movie just because I haven't rewatched the movie and
at least ten years watching it now being closer to
thirty than thirteen, there's like all this stuff that comes
up that wouldn't otherwise. And the first thing is that,
like all these movie premises that involve flashing into the
few sure or to older age in some way, whether

(33:03):
it be Big or thirteen going on thirty, or even
like Little that came out two weeks ago, you have
to for it to remain a comedy flash into a
future body of an insane privilege, because otherwise it's a
horror movie. No. I kept thinking that. She's like, like,
everything isn't awesome because you're thirty. Everything is awesome because

(33:26):
you're loaded up middle class and you can go back
to your loaded family who went to the Caribbean without you, right, yeah,
like it's your Yeah, I mean well, the main character
in Little is like gaming executive. Yes, she owns her
own like gaming company. Jenna is a magazine editor. Like
it's like you have to be flashing forward into literally

(33:49):
your ideal or if you're flashing forward realistically to someone
who may be struggling. Uh, No, one wants to see
that movie. Jennifer Arner won't take that job if you flash.
I mean it truly, like if if Jennifer Garner came
from because in in this movie, like Jenna Rink is

(34:10):
at lowest an upper middle class white girl, right, so
if it's anything lower than that, you could be flashing
forward to a lot of different stuff. Like if Jenna
Rink flashes forward to like I'm thirty and flirty, you know,
so many different things could happen, but she has to
add the addendum of thriving and then we get the movie.

(34:33):
I mean that's true for every rom com I can
think of. These are all focusing on middle to upper
middle class white people and they're very privileged lives and
they're like, but how will I have time for a
boyfriend when I have this demanding job? And then that's
the plot of right, it has to be like low

(34:54):
steak high steak things. Yeah, I think these movies like
Big or Little is that one right where they have
to work like Cinderella stories almost where there's like this
like transformation into like all of this like wonder for
it to be like interesting to watch. Yeah, but I

(35:14):
think it's boring. Caitlin. That's so brave of you, and yeah,
I mean it's just like there has to be you
had to be in a very specific class for this movie.
Formula that's been used a lot of times at this
point to work, like if you go below a certain
income rate, this genre does not want you do not

(35:39):
want to involved. For me, the biggest problem with this
movie is that a romantic relationship develops when it's an
adult man in an adult body with an adult brain.
That's okay, But he falls in love with a woman
who is an an adult body, but she has the

(36:00):
mind of a thirteen year old and she's acting like
she's nine. Well, it just sort of strikes as like
a very like kind of like the born Sexy Yesterday
tripe that we've talked about a lot, where, um, if
you haven't heard this us talk about this trope before,
it's just like the sort of the movie trope where

(36:21):
men in movies are very attracted to baby women are
women who have the body of a conventionally sexy for
whatever the era the movie comes out in rise jeans
exactly two thousand four, sexy lady, but she acts like
she's a baby, and that's hot, and it's so with

(36:46):
this movie. It's especially weird because in most Born Sexy
Yesterday tropes you've got stuff like the fifth element where
it's like a woman who came to life with a
full grown hot lady Addie literally yesterday. But with Matt,
it's someone he knows who is acting like a baby yeah,

(37:08):
and he asks no question. He's like, oh, and she says,
I'm thirteen years old and he's like, where do you live? Water? Yeah?
Like it's in so many ways in this this movie,
Like the way that everyone reacts to her is very

(37:28):
weird and everyone in this movie should be more concerned
about her than they are. But Matt, especially, Like if
you if you saw your best friend in seventh grade
now and they were like, I'm thirteen, you would be like,
we're going to the hospital right, Like, I'm so glad
you found me. Let's do you have insurance? I hope,

(37:51):
so let's get help. She also gives him like a
ship ton of money to she hires him to do
that whole ship yeah, which again is like that trope
of like, let me give my boyfriend a job, like
I love him so much so talented? Is that a trope?
That's just something I was thinking about. There is a
bunch of sinister listicles written because this movie just hit

(38:14):
its fifteenth anniversary, which means there's a lot of sinister
listicles coming out about how actually it's great. Uh, but
there's like a bunch of like she employed him, so
she's in charge. I'm like he should have fifty one
fifty her weeks ago, Like why is no one looking
out for this woman? Or if like if it still

(38:36):
needs to take a like comedy approach to the narrative
then unfolds. I think it would have worked better if
Mark Ruffalo was like, Okay, you're a thirteen year old
girl trapped in an adult woman's body. Let me go
get my wishing dust. I mean, the movie would be
over after or it's just like, let's help, let me

(38:58):
help you figure this out and like navigate your job,
and let me make sure I don't kiss you because
that's horrifying. Here's okay, here's where the conspiracy theories. Oh
my god, there's been a lot of extensive Reddit threads
dedicated to the poor writing of this movie. Um so,

(39:19):
how some people feel is that the wishing dust, while
viewed in the plot as arbitrary, is actually Matt's wishing
dust and he's a war lock. This theory is very good.
It is so basically Matt at the beginning of the

(39:41):
movie he's thirteen. He's basically Harry Potter, but weirder it
has to go to public school in New Jersey, and
he's magic. He's got this dust. He's like, Okay, this
dust is gonna make my crush love me, and if
she doesn't love me, it will punish her, which means

(40:07):
in the mysteriture, that's why because the weird plot hole
of an adult man holding onto a dollhouse for seventeen
years bothered people. I don't know why. You know why
he did it because he was a war law and
that's his fucking core crux. Okay, it literally is Okay.

(40:28):
So the theory goes that he had to hold on
to it so that when Jenna finally reaches the end
of her punishment of realizing, like Christmas Carol style that
if you don't fuck me, your life is gonna fucking
suck life. You rearranged his last name, what was it full?

(40:48):
It spells Baltimore, exactly playing the half Baltimore. So at
the end, the theory goes that he had to hold
onto the dollhouse and make sure there was extra wishing
dust on it so that Jenna would receive her come

(41:11):
up and only after she admitted she loved Yeah, could
she receive the dollhouse and then could be you know,
have to go to the past and fuck him and
it worked, and it works warlocks upsetting h. So that

(41:33):
is a theory. Um, I'm just presenting it. Looking at
the story of story was my idea just at face value,
looking at the story. The fact remains that the movie,
I mean, it is mostly a romantic story. Although I

(41:53):
do enjoy that just as much. I would say, just
as much time as devoted to her career and like
her trying to put together this presentation and all of
that stuff as the romantic storyline. Yeah, but I also
think that, like, there is no relationship between women and
this movie that you're really rooting for as much. Definitely

(42:15):
rooting for Matt and Jenna, like because you know, that's
that sleepoverseen there where's Becky's mom. You know, yeah, there's
a there's a woman with a six figure salary who
wants to sleep Yeah. Yeah, everyone's like yeah, Invider, Like,

(42:38):
I mean, yeah, you're totally right. Well, we can talk
about the female relationship or relationships in the movie, but
the fact remains that, like the romantic storyline that unfolds
is troubling because it is a t and it would
have been maybe better if it was just sort of
like she realizes that she is interested in him, and

(42:58):
then he's like, you seems really immature. I don't like you.
Is upsetting. This is weird. Yeah, but yeah, that's the
biggest prophet because it was very much like the born
Sexy Yesterday or Jamie as you said back stage, born
Sexy Tamara. Wow, thank you, I earned that. Go Jamie

(43:23):
the whole like yearbook class of two thousand and fourth thing,
and like her being nine years old. Something about it
is so I guess like obsessed with nostalgia and he
like falls in love with her because of nostalgia, and like, like,
is the movie like a desire to go back to
the Reagan era? It's like seven, Yeah, I don't know.

(43:47):
I mean, yeah, this movie is very is very rude
in nostalgia that I feel like the target audience of
the movie didn't fully understand, right, Like we were the
target audience. I didn't know the thriller dance, I knew
the song. I didn't know who Pat Benatar was. Like
there was a lot of stuff I learned through watching

(44:07):
this movie. They'm like, oh, I guess we care about this.
I thought the picture of Madonna was a picture of
Marilyn Monroe. I didn't too it was in black and white.
I don't know. But in general, life feel like this movie.
You know, there is the undercurrent of if we're going
with like the a Christmas Carol style theme that this

(44:31):
movie kind of has that like, oh, if only she
had dated this nerdy guy, she would be a good person.
But if she chooses her own path and like goes
with her career, she's a bad person. And like being
into your like there's just like this only but like
stopping being friends with a dude and like joining this

(44:52):
group of women who are because women are bad influences
mean Judy Greer is always wearing green like puke there
Like yeah, like there's like a very weird like anti
women having careers undercurrent to this whole movie, because it's like, yeah,

(45:13):
like she chooses her like this group of basically mean girls,
and she chooses the mean girls over her talking heads
fan childhood friend, and as a result, she like because
she's into her career, she is a bad daughter. She's
a bad friend, she's a bad partner. Like I feel
like it just like insinuates a lot of cruel things

(45:35):
about women who want careers. Sure, and then the way
the movie ends when she flashes forward and we see like,
you know, we're late, and then she's late to her
wedding with Mark Ruffalo, and we don't know in the future,
we know she lives in a big house, but we
don't know what she does. Does she still work at Poised?

(45:58):
Probably not, like she's living in the Jersey suburbs, probably not.
Like so it just there's like a lot of like
weird sub tweeting of women who want to have a job.
I mean that, and it it villainizes. The female friendships
or female relationships in this movie are largely antagonistic, where

(46:21):
obviously the main one is between Jenna and Lucy a
k A Tom Tom a k Judy Greer, where all
they do is stab each other in the back, and
then the the other one is between well there's her
and Becky, which again is narrative tool whose mother is

(46:42):
not present, right, and then there's Jenna and her assistant
whose name is I think are yes, she is so frightened.
We have some hand friends in there. Yeah, it's just Jenn.
We don't see this on screen, but in all the backstory,

(47:04):
we know that Jenna is awful to other women is
what we can glean, right, like well and and other
people in general, where like she is bad to her parents.
There is that scene where she's talking to Judy Greer
and Judy Greer implies that she has cheated on her
boyfriend before. Like it seems like she becomes because she

(47:25):
makes this one choice when she's thirteen years old, she
becomes the worst person. Which was like, oh, like this
whole time and the movie the whole time. I was
just like, I also have regrets, right, maybe if I
had done this differently in seventh grade, Yeah, I would

(47:45):
be married to this movie. Was like, actually, they're like
there are no consequences. You just have to stare at
a house for long enough and then everything will be fine. Right,
It's just yeah, it's just weird, Like and and the
fact that I think the like her, like Jenna's relationship
with Lucy, because that's the way that the story goes.
Like even with bully characters, there's always more there than

(48:10):
just like she's mean and she's mean to the core,
and she'll be mean for job but that's like all
we know about her, right right, And they're so cruel
to each other, and it's just like that's the main
two women that we see interact in the movie, and
we don't ever learn anything about Lucy when she's younger
or older. We just know she's mean and she's the

(48:33):
stock character and that the only way that Jenna can
rebel against her is by being with Mark Rufflo. There's
no alter right, Yeah, Like the only way she cannot
be bullied ist to marry Mark Ruffles. I wanted to
think while watching I was like trying to think, like
maybe this movie is like anti capitalist because it's like

(48:54):
showing like the evils of the magazine world. But instead
it's like, you know, it would be better if you've
got a giant house with one man and and you
sat there you loved him, y, Yeah, totally. I mean
it's like and the way we see women in this
workplace versus the only man we really see in this
workplace is Andy Serkis, and we sort of just see

(49:15):
him being like hapless and being like, what are your
ladies up to? Like twice melt bat He's the editor
in chief but never seems to know what's happening? And
so it's like the women are mean and the men
are clueless at this workplace. So it's like, sorry, I
did a British accent, let's forgive me. But it's it's like,

(49:38):
you know, they're they're treated on different levels of like
the women are are against each other and the one
guy at the workplace is just like where are we,
which I feel like is kind of a cop out
in the way that those relationships are treated. And also
like Jenna being a thirteen year old girl in a
thirty year old body, her proposal, both proposals for the

(50:02):
redesign of the magazine are so fat, like how did
they get this sho She's like twiddling with like a
balloon for no reason. And then yeah, she's like, these
are the woman I want to see. I want to
see the girl next door. She's like talking like that.
The older She's like, if you want if you don't

(50:24):
like this, I don't care like you. And she also
like takes down the fashion editorials and presents in White Yearbook. Yeah,
she's like about this and Andy because it's like, oh
my god, I did not think of that. Is there?

(50:47):
Are there? They're they're not really people of color in
this movie. Mark Ruffalo is ethnic maybe yeah. Yeah, it's
very like background, like it's just set dressing, which is
just like, yeah, it's the worst. Yeah, it's like the
version of New York where pretty much only white people

(51:09):
live in work, as we see in so many movies,
and tell people exist only twenty feet away. There is
a person of color with the speaking role who works
at Poise. Uh he. I think his character's name is Glen.
I only know it because I looked it up on IMDb,

(51:30):
but he is played by an actor who is Iranian.
Other than that, there's also a black woman who works there.
There's a black woman who works here who Judy Greer,
talks about her mission to destroy Jennifer Garner, who is
not named. Yes, we don't. We also don't get to see. Oh.

(51:53):
Then there's like the DJ who's playing the Michael Jackson songs,
which a thing that we can all agree ages very well.
It is extremely well. There are no documentaries about Yeah,
I know it's it's a super secret, super white upper
class movie, which, like rom coms in general generally and

(52:15):
movies in general generally, tend to be and like this movie,
I don't know. There's no there's no societal questions invoked,
and it's just like, I don't know. The main thing
with this movie is it presents two kids a very
like yes queen girl power, capitalist feminist version of feminism

(52:37):
where they're like, yeah, if you have every advantage and
magic exists, everything's gonna end up high. Like I mean,
you mentioned Christmas story kind of thing. I do think.
I guess that it's refreshing that we see a female
redemption story because we have so many male redemption stories

(52:58):
where we see so many stories about shitty men who
are like, oh, I see the error of my ways.
I have to be a better person. Uh and I'm tired. Uh.
So I guess because the way women are generally presented
in media is that they have to be perfect, already flawless.

(53:20):
They have to be these amazing creatures who like have
nothing wrong with them, because otherwise audiences can't handle a
slightly unlikable woman. Uh. And we don't even see her
really do the bad stuff either, We just like, right,
that's all in the back story. Um, and we only
see her be this like very naive nine year old

(53:42):
acting person. So I guess it's cool that there's like
a redemption story there that we don't actually see, but
the fact that the like take away from that redemption
story is like I don't know, like if you're a
kid and you see this movie, like in my truly
like when I saw being like, oh well, I should

(54:03):
just kiss Peter Sacchetti on the lips and then I'll
be an amazing person. Like the messages are like being
successful equals being raging bitch, and right, like the path
of redemption is directly tied to this very traditional thing, right,
being nice equals being like domesticated by a hetero relationship,

(54:28):
and that that is like cool cool, which is but
it's I mean, which is fine if that's what she wants,
but we just like we don't know if she had
a life at all. She goes from like we find
out this complex life that she had. She's sucking a
hockey player, she's doing all this stuff that I'm like,
that's pretty cool. Yeah, if you were sucking a hockey

(54:51):
player and cheating on a hockey player, that sounds awesome,
But then you just sort of flashed for like when
she does the do over, she gets the most generic
version of generic happiness yeah, like, we just don't know anything.
I would rather be like, know the specifics that I'm
cheating on a hockey player than just be like you're married.

(55:21):
I wanted to briefly touch on the representation of queerness
in this movie, because Andy Serkis is for a while
coated as queer. And then we see a stain toward
the end where uh, he's talking to Jenna. He's like, Hey,
that photographer who I don't think he has actually seen. Yeah, yeah,

(55:47):
we made him ask that he's like that yearbook photographer.
These pictures are pretty good. Does he fuck? He says
is he an Arthur or a Martha? Right? Is this
a common expression? Do we know this or is this
written by someone who's only heard of? Oh my god,

(56:11):
So I guess this means is he straight or is
he gay? Yeah? And then Jenna, because she is a baby,
says he's matt hot. And then Richard says no, no, no,

(56:32):
is he gay? And then she says are you gay?
And then giggle, giggle, giggle, nodding, shrugging, giggle, giggle. Aside
from the weird implied casual homophobia in this joke, he
should be worried about her it's implied they've known each

(56:56):
other for years. She would know this. If someone you
knew was gay for years, you were all of a
sudden like are you gay? Like you would have follow
up questions, right, Okay, So from his point of view,
he knows her is this likening bitch for years working

(57:18):
for him at this magazine, and then suddenly one day
she's like my dad who he's wayne drink? Like, are
you gay? I just like call someone. Jenna doesn't have
any good friends. So I also, first, I don't know,
maybe I'm dumb, but I was like, I felt I

(57:40):
had the same reaction. I was like, wait, this character
is supposed to be gay. What were the signs that
he just works in a magazine? I wasn't totally clear.
I mean I wasn't totally clear in that at first time,
because I hadn't seen this movie in a long time,
and like it was implied that they were close. But
I'm like, I don't know, Like it's hard to plug
yourself back into two thousand four logic. I'm like, is

(58:03):
a man who is comfortable around a woman get like queer? God?
I honestly wasn't sure that became like they seemed to
be friends and then he's like, of course I'm gay.
They are all men, just visibly tense and two four
all men where hockey players are gay, I would have yeah,

(58:26):
I don't know, like and the the whole I mean,
the way sex is treated in this movie, I don't
know for this movie, if you're do if you're flashing
forward from thirteen thirty, you have to address sex in
some way. Um, So I don't know. I mean, I'm
curious as to like what you think, because it's the
way it's mainly addressed is through the hockey player. And

(58:48):
it was like, wasn't the best, Like it was weird
and he you know, but they're supposed to be in
a relationship. She does during that scene, she's like stop stop,
and he's like, I'm stripped. But I don't know. I mean,
it's like, I don't really know how I would suggest
a rewrite for that scene other than them having a frank,

(59:10):
unfunny discussion. I feel like I appreciated how uncomfortable she
was because it was like one of the only moments
where they were like she is thirteen, except for the
other scene where she like flirts with that thirteen year
old boy. Yes, that's one of the moments where I'm like,

(59:30):
she's not stupid, wrong, and then Lucy voice of reason,
it's like, do you want to get arrested? Do you
want to go to jail? I actually kind of thought
that was okay, that was good. Yeah, but that was
one of the moments where it was like, even if Jennifer,
like if her character is supposed to be thirteen, a
thirteen year old would know not to do that, Like

(59:54):
that's something that a five year old would be like,
you're cute, but like a thirteen year old would be like,
I have sea cups. I can't do this right, you know,
I don't know. That scene was weird. Well, so where
was I get at a bar? Yeah? Where were his parents? Parents?

(01:00:14):
Where his parents that he was alone with two full
bottles of ketchup? Is that happen in New York? I
think it was like ketchup at a bar. I think
it was like a cheesecake factory. But the big Time magazine, Yes,
go to the cheesecake factory. The logic of that scene

(01:00:38):
for the second there was an alone child, I was like,
what restaurant is this? I think I just have a
couple of quick almost afterthoughts. But there are some like
pretty rom comy tropes that are in this movie. We've
touched on a few already. But it's you know, the
woman who works at a magazine in New York's city.

(01:01:00):
It's the beautiful woman Pratt falling. It's the very white cast.
There is a short makeup putting on montage because women
be putting on makeup, but she's also putting on makeup
when she's thirteen, right, true, but also because and she
puts on the same makeup. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah she
has not I allowed that. And then shortly after that,

(01:01:24):
there's a quick shot of her coming back from having
been shopping, because women be shopping, but if you woke
up and you had a six figure salary, I would shop.
She forgets her credit card too, They're like, miss your
credit card. She's like so rich, Like I want to

(01:01:45):
talk about Wendy really, Um okay, I Wendy. Wendy is
Matt's fiance and the weather woman, right, the weather person,
so like Wendy, don't clap for that. Wendy is marm

(01:02:11):
Ruffalo's fiance in the future, right, and Mark Ruffalo's character
is shady on the whole, and that he wants to
fuck a woman who acts like a baby also really
like buries the lead of the fact that he's going
to get married in trigger weeks. Has to run into

(01:02:31):
Jenna out in public after she hit on the kid
with the catchup, and then it's like, by the way,
I'm engaged. Her name's Wendy. She's a weather woman, and
Wendy bravely says weather person, and we're like, okay, we
like Wendy, right, I feel so bad for Wendy. Okay,
like Matt is a deadbeat guy because apparently they're getting

(01:02:54):
married in two weeks, and she's like, I work in Chicago,
Matt might move in with me, and I city Wow. Wow,
that was really good. But then that is like they're
gonna be getried in two weeks, and Matt's like, I
don't know if we're going to move in together. You're like,

(01:03:17):
there's no sparks. She's like, I just don't really want
to be like a commuter couple, and she and he's like,
what did you tell her? He's the word? And then
at the end we're like we're supposed to be like,
oh no, we just want him to be happy with Wendy. Like,
I did appreciate that this movie is sort of like
avoided the trope of stop the wedding successfully, Like Jenna

(01:03:40):
wants to stop the wedding but then has to realize
that it's too late. In this timeline, she's a bit right.
She wanted a job too much. It would be so
beautiful if it just ended with her looking at the house.
But that wouldn't happen. That that would only happen now maybe,
but it would only result in like losing two minutes

(01:04:00):
of runtime. Yeah, you could just be like, this is
what happens if you want a career. Yeah, that's kind
of what the ending is anyways. Kind of Yeah, well,
but I just felt bad for Wendy because in the
future timeline, I hope Wendy is like Oprah and like

(01:04:21):
doesn't like never met Matt is far better off. Yeah.
The other thing I like about that is that that
character is usually presented as being this like evil, witchy
woman who like it's clear that the audience is meant
to hate her and meant to be like, yeah, screw her,

(01:04:42):
and we definitely want our hero Jenna and Matt to
end up together. But she seems perfectly nice and respectable,
so it would have been an easy choice and in
a common choice that we do see a lot from her,
and I'm thinking of like how the first half of
Legally Blonde is we're like Soma there where like the
New Girlfriend is so I mean cal Hockley but like

(01:05:06):
a woman, but still like Wendy. We see her at
the end of her timeline about to enter a loveless marriage.
That's so sad. It sucks. He's like, her family's here,
so I guess we have to get married. He's like,
we care about each other. It's not perfect, but whatever,
get out of my room. Yeah, I think that that

(01:05:30):
scene I really want to know why, Like Ariana Grande
was like obsessed with that house looking scene where she's
looking at the dollhouse. I mean it's in the thank
You Next video, like she hasn't seen it in a while. Yeah,
Like that's not the best moment, right. I feel bad
for Wendy in her timeline. Good for Wendy in the

(01:05:53):
timeline where she's not present, because hopefully that means she's
doing great. Let's see. I have a couple of other things. Um,
we touched on this a little bit already. But there
was an article published at the time of this recording,
just a few days ago. But it's entitled thirteen Going
on thirty turns fifteen celebrate by admitting it's a better
film than Big Click Click, Yeah, here we go. It

(01:06:18):
was published in Decider by Anna menta quote that I
want to read is the real reason thirteen Going on
thirty never had a shot at the prestige status enjoyed
by Big is because it was made to appeal to women.
Quote chick flicks, as some like to call romance films
that center on a woman, are never quote refreshing or poignant.

(01:06:38):
Chick flicks, no matter how original they are are. Quote
well worn, formulaic, and uninspired. These are, you know what
the male critics say in terms never applied to action movies,
which are Yeah, and then Big gets to be on
the American Film Institutes list funniest films of all time,

(01:07:01):
while thirteen Going on thirty gets dubbed as a guilty pleasure.
So right, I mean there's so much I guess, like
my favorite there's like some great Lindsay Ellis video essays
for friends. Yeah, of of like how movies targeted at
women are always upon their release kind of like couched

(01:07:23):
and like, well, this is a stupid movie. But for
a stupid movie, I didn't hate it, Like it's so
couched in the way it's like reviewed. Yeah, I want
to say that it is like radical for the sleepover
scene because it's just like even though it's like centered
around her talking about Mark Ruffalo kissing her, they're still

(01:07:44):
like this beautiful like all these girls just like dancing
to love is a battlefield and like wearing a brawl
over their dresses, Like that's cool. That wasn't in Big. Yeah,
there's so much about this movie that I mean, people
shouldn't stop watching it and a great movie. It's cute

(01:08:06):
and it's there's a lot. I don't know, there's a
lot to love about it. There's one scene that we
didn't talk about. There's one of the other female relationships
that we'd like grayze on in this movie that's like
a bunch of half formed female relationships is Jenna and
her mom um where when Jenna goes back home, she
and her mom had this discussion where it's very expositional

(01:08:27):
this scene because Jenna is like, if you could go back,
do you have anything that she's like, well, I would
take away a few wrinkles, that's for sure, Like, okay, mom,
anything else and her mom, I mean, it's just weird,

(01:08:51):
like that scene. I I like, because any scene between
a mom and a daughter that is like pleasant and sweet,
you're like, okay, sure, but like we don't know anything
about Jenn's mom. Maybe she should regret. Yeah, maybe when
she's even regret right, I stand regret. She's like, do

(01:09:12):
you regret anything? And Jenna's mom was like, no, nothing,
And I'm like, what if her mom did something horrible
and Jenna knows it. We don't know what happened. Really,
what if Jenna's mom meant that as a challenge where
she's like, three years ago, I killed five yeah and
got off on a technicality. Yeah, I regret nothing, your move.

(01:09:36):
Maybe she regrets trying to fuck Edward scissor Hands because
same actor. Really, Yeah, she's like the horny housewife who's
like Edwards, Oh my god, I didn't realize that I
love him. I would regret that. And I kind of wow,

(01:09:57):
that scene is weird because it's like her mom doesn't
regret anything, but Jenna, by going back in time, clearly
does so like, what what was the lesson? Right? I
was like, well, I guess Jenna's mom, who we know
nothing about, regrets nothing. Sure. One other quick thing I
wanted to mention is just a reminder or you know,

(01:10:19):
this has never been said before, but representation is important.
I came up with that take of the this is
not I know. I am so smart. Um, I do
have a master's screen screen writing from Boston. What wait? What? Oh? Cats?

(01:10:47):
Okay the musical? Okay, yes, are you in it? Okay? Not?
The requests are coming out, so um you said Cats
the musical? Just really quick. There is a scene where
Jennifer Garner's character drives through Times Square and there is
a Mama Mia poster. We talked about that anyway, cats

(01:11:11):
have eight nipples. That's what people wanted to hear. It's
not relevant to them, but that's cat facts. With Caitlin
onto my point, which is that a pretty big part
of at least the beginning of the movie is Jenna

(01:11:31):
as a teen seeing women in magazines, specifically very conventionally
attractive by Western beauty standards models in Poise in the
eighties and saying I want to look like that. Like
that is the ideal that is presented to me by society,
and I need to make sure that that's how I

(01:11:53):
look because that is how people will value me, which
just again goes to show well that is presented in
the movie as if it is the wrong frame of mind. Yes,
and it's like but the movie goes on to really
not challenge it at all because it's like, and she
ended up working there, but she shouldn't have. She should

(01:12:13):
have just gotten married, right, like yeah, yeah, and like, well,
she also wants to be a part of something, like
she wants to be a part of the Six Chicks,
and like that is also the wrong move. Like it's
just I feel like Jenna's character is so like profoundly
punished for having wants and desires that for a thirteen

(01:12:36):
year old girl are very which is to like want
to fit in and to want to look like what
is presented to them, like incessantly, and she is somehow
punished for that even though like she's really just like
there's only there's probably no one here that didn't feel
like that at some point, Like no kid when they're

(01:12:59):
years old, or if or a few kids are like
so aggressively woke that they're like fuck, I was like
I would have done anything. Yeah. I really love that
line where she's like, I don't want to be original,
I want to be cool like the same yeah, yeah,
like sometimes still adult. Yeah. And then just here Matt's

(01:13:24):
over there being like, um, actually they're robots and he's
but also like he doesn't get I don't know, just
like the fact that his point, they're like if she
only just like pomped in a talking hands cassette and
kiss that boy, she would get it. I mean, it
does present the idea that a teen girl who wants

(01:13:46):
the things that typical teen girls do will become an evil,
heinous bitch. Yeah, exactly, like best case scenario, right, Like
I don't I don't know. I mean, I just like
I think that being a thirteen year old girl is
the most fragile state of being and the fact that
she has like punished intensely for the next seventeen years

(01:14:09):
of her life. This movie kind of taints the idea
that like a boy and a girl in there like
formative years can't just have a platonic relationship. It's it's
a boy pining after a girl and it has to
result in marriage or it was an invalid friendship. Also,

(01:14:31):
if I had if I had seen this movie as
like a tween, and I had heard the description of
what seven minutes in Heaven was as it is described
in this movie, which is whatever a boy goes into
a closet with you and brutalizes and he can do
whatever he wants to you for seven minutes, I would

(01:14:54):
be like, I'm gonna live in a cave and never
talked to anybody. That is so scary. The other line
of dialogue that is frequently cited and very freaky in
this movie is that line that Lucy has where Jenna
is in the bar and she's like, I think that
thirty is going to be awesome, and she's like, yeah,

(01:15:16):
of course, you're thin, you're hot, you could get any
guy in the world, and just like defining that as
like the way to be a successful thirty year old
and she got. She doesn't challenge that, and really the
movie doesn't challenge in any way that could she doesn't.
For everyone's so skinny except for the scared woman. Yeah,

(01:15:37):
except for it's a very thin the oldest, most fearful woman. Yeah,
Like there isn't the most diversity. We get the woman
who is the most full of fear? Right? Does anyone
have any other final thoughts? Okay, great, I think we

(01:15:59):
have a few minutes for some audience questions and or comments.
Hopefully we get to everybody. There's a lot of bustling. Well,
we'll see, but there's a line dear God. Okay, cool,

(01:16:20):
this is because wonderful Hi. What's your name? Him? Hi
mean for you? Yeah? This is this is thank you
so much. This is an embroidered tweet of mine. I'm
so glad it gives me an opportunity to bring up Titanic.

(01:16:46):
It was a tweet that I tweeted, apparently on December one.
I love that you included that. Uh. My favorite part
of Titanic is when Bill Paxton only wants to hear
about what happened to the Diamond and Old Road tells
a seven hour story about a stranger she fucked. Thank
you so much. This is so awesome. Hello, it's so

(01:17:14):
hard to follow up higher bridget Um. I have a
very important question. How do you think Alfred Molina would
factor into think? Yes, I think we could easily recast
Mark Ruffalo in this movie. And Jennifer Garnner answers the door,
and she's like, wow, you look not what I expected

(01:17:35):
going on. We don't know. I think that as with
most movies, Okay, even better, Jenna is blindfolded at thirteen.
She wakes up, she's Alfred Molina and it's two thousand
four and she's filming a Spiderman too, and she has

(01:17:55):
to figure out how can I actualize myself as a woman,
and all will play Doc Dog in two thousand four
and I have to play Tevy on Broadway. Yes, that's hard,
that's the real I think that. Yeah, the rest important
thing to know. Yeah, funck women, Let's recast Jennifer Garner.

(01:18:16):
Thank you, of course, thank you so much. Hi. Hi,
I'm Hannah. Hi. I was wondering if you guys had
any thoughts on the way Judy Greer is typecascid as
characters were not supposed to like. I feel like in
every single year I've ever seen people best friends, she's
not You're not supposed to like her character. So yeah,
I highly work if if if people here are like

(01:18:40):
Judy Greer fans, which I am, she has a great men. Yeah,
she's great like and she almost never gets her do
but like she wrote a great memoir about how this
has been truly the course of the past several decades
of her life of like being the best friend type,
and I mean, it's just it's such a strange thing

(01:19:01):
to be caught into. And she writes a lot about
how like she's like, I think I look like a
fairly normal person, and how normal looking people are demonized
in in media, and how like normal looking people, even
when they're very talented, are never used to their full ability.

(01:19:22):
And she has like a lot of interesting thoughts on
like where like if you get into deep Judy Greer lore,
like she's so talented and she's done so many cools,
she's still killing it. Yeah, but like the major roles
she gets here so blat and so lame, and she's

(01:19:43):
she she sort of draws the conclusion She's like, I
look like a regular person, and that is why people
think I'm mean and terrible. Oh my god, yeah, I'm
as high. So my question and slash comment was I'm wondering.

(01:20:03):
So when I saw this again recently, it made me
think of a friend zone wish fulfillment narrative from the
side of the dude. So it's like she shows no
interest in him when she's younger, except for friendship, and
then you switched to his wish fulfillment, which is she
should be punished for any of her other wants and desires,

(01:20:23):
which are all fulfilled in the future except him. So
it's this punishment because she gets everything that she wants
then and it's all wrong, and she's punished for that
because the one thing that him as a young person wanted.
So it's like, yeah, it does go like it was
all orchestrated, right, He's like, here's the friend zone illustrated

(01:20:49):
in a movie. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I wondered if
you guys what your thoughts were. Agreed, Yeah, totally agree.
I hadn't really considered this be from Mark Ruffalo's perspective.
From his perspective, it's kind of dope, like change, yeah
the whole movie. He's just perspective. But yeah, and he

(01:21:13):
either Timeline gets to marry a very successful woman who
will presumably take care of his yearbook photographers pay him forever.
He's like aggressively mediocre the whole Yeah. True, I mean,
I mean I was still the s is Mark Ruffalo
that its CBGV shirt, Like we get it. You like

(01:21:36):
the talking hands relax there. Yeah, I think this movie
is way more fun if you view it from a
friend z owe narrative. That seems like that's the victorious
route to that's awesome. Thank you so much. Hi, Hi
him um. Yeah, So I wanted to propose Maddie or

(01:22:00):
Mark Ruffalo as finest Icon because there is a very
short scene where I had to actually rewine. Yes, I
had to rewind a little bit to re listen to
it because basically they're talking about spin the bottle. Spin, Yes, yes,
spin the rapist, because spin the bottle, spin the rapist,
spin the bottles, been the rapist, And I think because

(01:22:23):
it's true, Yeah, is that when he's a thirteen year old,
when he's an adult. When Mark Ruffalo, I missed Mark Ruffo.
Mark Ruffalo was like me too, He was like, okay,
point take it. Yeah, I agree. Wow, I still want

(01:22:44):
to kiss. Thank you. Hi. My name is Nicole, And
as a woman in stem I say when Tom Tom
found the snap oh male saying that Jenna was going
to take the job at Sparkle, I was like, damn,

(01:23:04):
I would do that too to advance my career. I
think we were all painted to hate her, but I
kind of identified and said, you know what, I might
have done that too if I found out. My friend was, ye,
it's reasonable. Yeah, I mean I think, yeah, like nihilist.
Why like you're just like, you know what if I'm switching,

(01:23:26):
if I'm going to participate in capitalism, doesn't matter which
structure I participated, No, poised to sparkle doesn't matter. Yeah, No,
I mean I guess if Judy Greer is coming from
the po v of just like, well, she was going
to do it. So I'm Tom Tom. I wish I

(01:23:49):
had like I'm Tom Tom, I could do anything. Thank you,
thank you, thank you. Hello. Hi, I'm Amy um. So
I asked this question as a pure Mark Ruffalo fan,
but I was wondering. He thought, if you were to
replace Mark Ruffalo with Steve bush Emmy and Steve Bushey

(01:24:14):
was there as her Oh god. Thirty year later, best
friend asked the inventor of the which is the test
that if you replace a conventionally hot man with Steve
bush Emmy, how does the narrative change. I don't know
how much about this movie changed. I think that Jennifer
Garner is the I mean, I don't know. I mean,

(01:24:37):
like Jennifer Garner is the weird one in a lot
of ways, where she's rejected a lot of times by him,
and she just keeps being like, hiya, I'm thirteen. And
but if you see Steve, but if you see Steve
Bushemy be like, okay, like big eyes, she'd be yeah,
she'd be like you have arm hair and a scary

(01:24:58):
face and then they kiss. Yeah. I feel like Mark
always looks like confused and Steve bush Emmy always looks
like do they know? Right? Yeah? Yeah, It's like there's
always distant sirens, but you're like, I wonder if they're
actually gonna get closer. Who are they for? I don't know. Yeah,

(01:25:22):
I think that the Steve the test definitely applies to
this story. As with any born Sexy Yesterday trope, the
Steve bush Emmy test is in full effect. Yeah, for sure.
Can I also just comment on how many times this
happens in the movie where Mark Rufflo is like walking
away and then Jenna is like so many times and

(01:25:45):
then he turns around, He's like what and then she's
like a or something like it happens. Okay, I want that,
Okay anyway, but the Boschemmy test is definitely in full
for sure. Fore, Hi, So my question actually serendipitously connected

(01:26:08):
that one, which was just that when I was watching
the movie, I think you guys might agree that there
was not a lot of chemistry between Mark Ruffalo and
John Gardner. Loved them both independently, but that romantic story
was like kind of like. So my question is how
much different or better would the movie be if the
long lost childhood friend was actually a female character. Everyone

(01:26:35):
just caught horny all at once. That was a very
unique moment. I think the crowd has indicated it would
be much better better, I mean if there was I mean,
but even truly like if you do like, because I

(01:26:57):
think that the Judy Greer character warn it's more explanation.
No bully exists in a void. Maybe we write Maddie
out and we figured that out. What's going on there? Tom? Tom?
Why did you still my proposal and leave me to
get molested by a kid in a closet? Right? And
she's and because I loved you? That's why progressive there?

(01:27:23):
I mean, yeah, there's and there's so many young like,
there's so many young women at the in the beginning
of the story who are basically mean nothing to the
plot besides Tom Tom that, yeah, you could sub ut
Maddie very easily and people would be horning her. I'm
very down for that. And I just like, truly do

(01:27:44):
think that the Judy Grid character was not examined well
enough as an adult or a kid, and that whether
it be as a friendship or something more. Uh, that
like that relationship wasn't fully explored in the movie. Yes,
for sure, Thank you, I love it, Thanks you guys,
Yeah of course. Hi. Hi, last point, I guess more

(01:28:08):
of an observation than a question in terms of people
of color representation. As a person of color who grew
up in the New Jersey suburbs, the biggest plot hole
to me was how many black people were at the
Wendy and Mark Ruffalo's character wedding. It was literally fifty
if you want to go back and watch. Urged to

(01:28:31):
my husband and say, how do you think it's so
many black friends? So so just something for everybody to
watch out for this. Thank you, Wendy the Woke weather Woman. Hi, Hi,

(01:28:51):
thank you so much for everything. I have two observations.
First is tom tum is usually used to French for
GPS machine sitcom. Oh yeah, yeah. And the second was
what if Mark Ruffalo, who was very stupid it's also

(01:29:12):
thirteen in a thirty year old spody. It just and
just like played it way cooler. Oh my god, whoa hey,
way more fun. I like that. It always reminds me

(01:29:35):
of what's the character's name in The Good Place, who's like,
I'm a monk, And it's just that he's a I mean,
his whole character is already kind of like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is that why he didn't know he was married? Yes,
more like us acted back on him. That would explain

(01:29:58):
so much of his suspicious behavior. And why are you
still such a horrible photographer? You know when he gets
a check and he's like, this would mean a lot
for me, but what if it's like four dollars, he's
like Jennifer was like, that's only half of it. It's

(01:30:19):
actually eight dollars. He's like, holy shit, Oh man, well
just this movie fast. The Bectel says, Yeah, yes, women
talk about a lot of things. They talk about magazines,
they talk about age swaps, they talk about hangovers, they

(01:30:42):
talk about being thirty. Yeah, there's a lot of different
combinations too. It's like Jenna and Lucy, Jenna and her
assistant mom Mom Jenna and Becky um bev bev according
to IMDb. But yeah, we don't know that I'm in
the icon IMDb. Yeah, so that's a hard yes on passing. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:31:09):
And I guess finally, how would everyone rate this on
our nipple scale? Our nipple scale. I don't want to
go first. Okay, Melissa, would you like to her first? Oh? No? Um, Okay,
I'm going to be consistent with what I've been saying. Okay,
I'll give it four nipples, and two of them I

(01:31:29):
will give to Mark ruff Buffalo to do as he pleases. Um,
and they're my nipples and I can feel it. And
and then the third nipple, I guess I'll give to
the to the scared woman representation matters Um as a

(01:31:51):
woman who's afraid, always loved her. And then I'll give
the last nipple to to Judy Greer storming down the
magazine hall throwing things. Yeah, I'll come with three. I
think I think that there's like there's a lot to
love about this movie. I'm still attached to it. I

(01:32:11):
think that it sort of I'm like between two and
a half and three, because there there's a lot of
underlying messages with this movie that I feel like either
path of the movie presents is not ideal and really
only applies freedom of choice to which guy you kiss,

(01:32:33):
where you know you can either choose the path of
choosing a group of female friends and a career or
choosing a guy, and one is clearly good and one
is clearly horrible. And so I think that there's like
a lot of demonization of women working at all in
this movie that I thought, even for two thousand and four,

(01:32:54):
it was kind of a strange thing to be doubling
down on. I wish that there was a female, like
a relationship between two women of any sort in this
movie that we could really really root for, or that
felt super nuanced and grounded. But whether it's like Lucy
and Jenna, Jennet her mom, Jenna and Becky, they're all

(01:33:14):
kind of one note and play out either kind of
like nothingness, like Jenna and her mom, or we don't
know anything about their relationships so their conversations don't matter,
or it's two women who are actively against each other
and it has to do with career ambition, and it's
just like women can't work together and just kind of

(01:33:34):
all these like old tropes that seep into it. But
I do like that it's her story, she has an
active role in redeeming herself. And I just, I mean,
I just love I'm very attached to it. I like
it and I like the dancing, and I'll give it.
I'll give it two and a half. I'm going to

(01:33:55):
give one too. Was Eileen or Arlene? Are are Lane
Arlene the assistant? She has two fearful nipples now, and
I'll give the other one and a half to Andy Circus, Yeah,
because he never gets real human nipples. He always gets
c gas. I'll also go with a two and a

(01:34:18):
half just to piggyback on everything you said, Jamie. But
I also think it's important to like, this is an
unapologetically I would say, girly movie. And that's okay, that
is good there, it's good that those exists in the world.
And yeah, it's just it's so it's okay to still
love it. Um. Yeah, I'm gonna go with a two

(01:34:39):
and a half. I will give two nipples to Judy
Greer and I will give my half nipple to Wendy. Yes,
Wendy Justice for Wendy. Yeah, Wendy, don't you a successful
meteorologist with a woman in stem Melissa, thank you so

(01:35:05):
much for being us. Where can we find you online?
Where can we listen to Say More? Tell us everything? Um,
you can listen to Say More podcast hosted with Olivia
Gatwood on all streaming devices, and you can follow me
everywhere at Hello Melissa, which is Hello Melissa without the
h awesome. Thank you, Thank you guys so much. Thank

(01:35:29):
thanks to the Bellhouse for hosting us here, Thank you
for coming. Thanks to you for being here on Game
of Thrones night's starting right now. Did you know that
the dragons and Game of Thrones can't talk? I learned
that today. Yeah, they are not smelled. You can't do.

(01:35:50):
Thank you so much for coming, Thanks for tomming those
our episode. We did such a fun at Thank you
to everyone who came to that show at the Bellhouse.
That was such a blast. It was recorded on like
the third to last episode of Game of Thrones and
we were afraid no one was going to come, but
a bunch of people get packed. It was so much fun. Yes,

(01:36:12):
so thank you for coming. Thanks to everyone who bought
merch and posters that helps us out a lot. That
was so fun. Thanks again to our guest Melissa Lazata Eliva.
She was so awesome and please check out all of
her stuff. She put in her plugs as well, but
at Ella Melissa and read all of her wonderful poetry. Indeed,

(01:36:33):
and then shout out and thanks to the Bellhouse for
having us there, all the staff who helped out with
the show. Everything that was awesome. Yeah, it was such
a blast. And thank you to Jennifer Garner, I mean
and thanks. We should always think the lead actors at
the end of every episode. And of course this wouldn't

(01:36:54):
be possible without Meryl Street. I think you mean Meryl Street.
It's true and she would have she but she's so gracious.
She would have just been like a streep shirt. So,
you know, thanks to the whole Thanks to Andy Circus,
to to Gollum who made probably that role possible for

(01:37:15):
him because he's trying to subvert the narratives. Sure, thanks
to everyone real and hey, we can ploke some stuff
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We have our Patreon aka Maintreon at patreon dot com

(01:37:38):
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(01:38:02):
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(01:38:25):
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(01:38:46):
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