A Little Princess with Joelle Monique

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the beck Dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends
and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
invest start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hey, everyone,
quick note at the top of the show Beckdel continuity
check for all you eagle eared listeners. You're about to

(00:25):
hear an episode about the movie A Little Princess, one
of the stars of which is Vanessa Chester, who you
may know was recently on the Bechdel Cast for our
book Smart episode. Now, in this episode, we are talking
as if we don't know her, because at the time
it was recorded, we didn't. That's true. We met Vanessa

(00:48):
after this episode was recorded. So if you're listening to
this and you're thinking, hey, why are they talking about
this Becky character is if they'd never met the actor, Well,
that's why. We simply had not met her yet. And
in the magical world of podcasting, sometimes you record an
episode and then niche sits on the shelf for a
while and then it's just right. So now you know

(01:12):
and get ready for a hell of an episode. Here's
a Little Princess Cast. Hello, and welcome to the beck
Del cast. My name is Jamie Loftus. My name is
Caitlin Drante. It was a dramatic positive. I panicked, Sorryanic,
I have an offered Molina update, but you actually provided

(01:32):
me with Because we both follow his fins to, we
are not at liberty to disclose his fin stuff. Aristotle
actually found the fins to and passed it on to
us because that's just what we like fins to. I
know that's Instagram, but like why it's like your fake Instagram.
It's like where like either you sign up to post
passive aggressive things, not a good idea I would never

(01:54):
um and or it's what famous people do to have
an account that is just for people they actually know
and not for like like Beyonce definitely has a fence.
Has to thank you for keeping me young. So this
is Freddie's fin stuff that we we became privy too.

(02:17):
So we're recording this around the time that abortion rights
are simply gone. Hopefully when you listen to this that
won't be true, but probably it will be even more
true than it is right now. Unfortunately. So, but he
he posted in solidarity with women because he is a
feminist icon. He posted what appears to be a kaleidoscopic
image of a vagina, and then said, quote, those of

(02:40):
us without a vagina need to shut the fuck up
dot dot dot in the abortion argument, no vagina means
no voice unquote. I mean a true feminist icon, truly,
what an all I just said, start by breaking the
Becktel test and sharing that's that's okay because we're gonna
only pass the Bechdel test from here on out. Yeah,

(03:01):
we are uniquely suited to with our movie this week. Yeah,
so yeah, we use the Becktel test as a jumping
off point to initiate a larger conversation about the representation
of women in movies. And the Bechtel test, of course,
is a media metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechtel that
requires that a movie have two named female identifying characters

(03:25):
who speak to each other about something other than a man.
That's demonstrate RIGHTA Caitlin Jamie, what is it? Um? Oh shit?
I know what I was going to say. I was
going to break it. Never mind that passes that the
test twist passes. I was gonna say, I didn't you
see John c Riley at a at a roller skating place?

(03:48):
It was like motherfucker or even nish. Over three years,
we still don't know how to pass on the Becktel
tests bright of us well anyway, how vulnerable. So today
we're talking about a Little Princess movie directed by Alfonso
corn which I always forget he directed but during his
green period Green Days. Learned a lot about his green period.

(04:12):
Lots of stuff and without much further ado, let's introduce
her guest that we have today. She is a pop
culture entertainment critic. She's written for Hollywood Reporter, Playboy, Paste Magazine,
Pajaiba dot Com. It's Joel Monique. Hi's okay, we're so sorry,
thanks for coming. I'm so excity to be here. I

(04:33):
love this show. It's super funny guys, including you. Of course,
now I'm part of thee You're canon. I was so
excited because when we talked about getting you in the
show at first, you didn't think for a moment before
you really oh, a Little Princess. So it's a long
time favorite, a problematic in places favor, But if you're

(04:55):
just looking for really solid representation of women, good Lord
your silk of fly and it's like magical and whimsy
and fantasy when it came out. I was six, so
it's like a perfect age for this movie. And Emmanuel
Levitsky did the cinematography and he's like iconic, so good.
So yeah, it was a no brainer. It's a beautiful movie.

(05:17):
It looks so beautiful. Yeah, and very green, extremely green. Caitlin,
what's your history with this movie? I watched it a
lot as a child. This and The Secret Garden I
was watching constantly. I've probably seen this movie thirty times
or so because it came out when I was nine,
so I was like, that's still like, it's still the

(05:39):
age to be appreciating this. And my sister and I
would watch it all the time, and then a couple
of years later, Titanic would come out, which you know,
of course, takes place around this same era. There's a
music box in this movie that's plays the same tune
that ross music box places and Titanic, the one that

(05:59):
goes do Do Do. I didn't notice that. I was
surprised that we didn't talk about it, because when I
rewatched it this morning, I was like, I know that
music box tune. Oh my goodness, must just been a
very popular music box from the early very different vibes though,
because in a Little Princess it's that little girl wailing
because her mother's dad, and in Titanic it's Cal Hackley

(06:22):
being like, why can't I fuck you? And she's like, no,
same music box, very different sames. Yeah, so this is
one of my childhood favorites, but hadn't watched it for
probably twenty years or so. Um, so it was an
interesting rewatch, Jamie, what's your history? I don't have much

(06:43):
of a history with this movie. Most people I talked
to about this movie that we're not completely in love
with it as children very often confuse it with The
Secret Garden. I am firmly in that camp. I mean,
it is based on work from the same author, the
visual styles are similar, there's problematic themes about colonialism in
India and both of them. But I I think I

(07:04):
saw it like maybe once or twice when I was
when I was a little bit this this movie count
when I was like two or three, So I think
I kind of missed it and then saw it at
a friend's house later, but it wasn't particularly attached to it.
But watching it back, I mean, it's like it's an
unusual movie for kids, where it like takes heavy topics

(07:25):
and deals with them in a heavy way, which you
don't I don't know. It's like an unusual approach. I
don't know. I like it, and I like my favorite
colors grain, so I'm a fan. Should I do the recap? Yes?
All right? So it's nineteen fourteen Titanic sunk Titanic for

(07:47):
two years, were over it. We meet this little girl
named Sarah. She lives in India with her father. They
are clearly whose British colonizers as hell is that's my
favorite party. You're like, wait a second, I know this daddy.
You do care of another little girl needed a lot

(08:08):
of help, Sharie. I love Dabas. He's like, you're my
little princess. This Indian woman named Maya, who's like all
girls are princesses. I don't know her relationship to this
Indian woman exactly. It's not clear. They really skirt what
is very clearly her dad's job of participating in colonialism.

(08:31):
They really skirt it. I have I After the recap,
we can get into why. I think in this instance
it might be okay, this is entirely from the perspective
of a child, right, Children don't understand these things. I
don't know. I wish you washed about how I feel
about the presentation of that. Sure, it's I mean definitely
like Sarah being so naive about everything benefits the story

(08:53):
in every way, because you would I guess you wouldn't
if you were, like how old is Sarah is supposed
to be. She's eleven, the actresses eleven when this movie
is released, So she's I think between the ages of
nine and twelve, Okay, So like you wouldn't necessarily realize
exactly what your parents at that point, and you're sheltered
from a lot of that too, is like and and

(09:14):
I think that it plays it makes because she is
that way. It gets us to this amazing villain that
I just I really like the dynamics of the villain
being like, listen, girl, Like the life that you think
you're living is such a facade and you don't know
hard work and you don't know what like difficulties are like.
And I feel like she's really justified in a lot
of places, not all of the places. She's also terrible,

(09:36):
but I understood her. There's yeah, seeing seeing seeing her
as an adult, you're like, oh, you're someone hurt you. Yes,
that is the world hurt you? Yeah? I get it?
Um okay. So then Sarah's father has to go and
fight in World War One. So Sarah is sent to
a boarding school in New York City Ever heard of it? Wow?

(09:58):
And she has the biggest bedroom. All her toys are there.
She clearly comes from a place of extreme economic privilege. Yes,
she gets a tour of the school. She meets I guess,
the headmistress, Mismntion. She's very strict, an icon skunky stripe.
Love it. We meet her sister, Amelia Mention, who is

(10:23):
nicer than her. Her sister miss teacher there. And then
Sarah sees this little black girl who is mopping the
floor and she is like m And then Sarah meets
the other girls who attend the school and one of
them is really mean. All she wants to do is
brush her hair. What of it? Sarah starts her lessons

(10:47):
and the school has a lot of rules. Mis Mention
is always yelling at her. And then Sarah sees this
black servant girl again and she's curious about her and
she finds out that her name is Becky, which I
love the arny of a black girl being named Becky to. So,

(11:07):
so Sarah goes up to Becky's living quarters and she's like,
you have to go or we'll both be in trouble.
She's like icing her feet. She has very uncomfortable shoes.
So then Sarah sends Becky a new pair of shoes,
shoes that I would like to have myself. Yellow. They're
furry shoes. They have heels, but they're slippers. Yeah, they're

(11:30):
beaver lined. Listen, this is fourteen and their fancy as hell.
She spared no expense. And then Sarah gets in trouble
again because she uses her imagination to liven up story
time and Miss Mentioned is like, don't you use your imagination.
But the girls want to hear Sarah's stories about like

(11:52):
the princesses and princes and India's so that she's like
sharing stories that Maya had told her previously. I think
that story she learned when she was living in India. Yes,
so all the girls go to Sarah's room in secret
so that they can keep hearing her stories. Meanwhile, Sarah's
father is deep in the trenches of World War Wilds.

(12:13):
In it there's mustard gas and everything. It sucks. And
then during Sarah's birthday party, she receives word that her
father was killed in action and that the British government
has seized control of his company on all of his assets,
which means that Sarah is not penniless. She has no money.

(12:34):
This is the one scene where I feel Miss mentioned
went too far about it too. I don't I want
to get too into it, but like, I just you
didn't have stuff that little girl's birthday, right, Why couldn't
she have had one more hour of happiness, just joy,
like the peak of her joy. She's like, now is
the time you crush it? But yeah, I also feel
like she's a woman who's like, these girls can be

(12:54):
prepared for harm and hurt and I'm not going to
shield them from because the world certainly, and she has
such a hard time getting the words out to say it.
It's clear that she doesn't take joy and hurting her.
But I also think that she does take a little
bit of pride be able to knock her down to pay.
It's such a weird time to be like taking pride
in something like that, and especially with a child. She's

(13:15):
just so insecure. I feel for her deeply. She needs
a good therapist. Yes she does. God, I've been no
one believed in therapy at this time. Freud who is
he passenger? And then that black balloon is like moving
to forward her. So it's so good. The cinematography and

(13:36):
this movie is so good. It definitely feels like foreshadowing
for like mis mention to hurt you, miss her. Daddy
didn't tell that she was a princess enough, and that's
why she's me class. So yeah, miss mentioned is like,

(13:56):
you're a loan in the world now, Sarah, unless I
just side to keep you here out of charity. So
all of Sarah's belongings now belong to Mismntion, and she
is put to work as a servant in the school
to earn her room and board. She's living like next
in the attic with Becky and Mismntioned is like, you're
not a princess any longer, because throughout the story so far,

(14:19):
Sarah has has been telling her peers at school, you're
a princess. I'm a princess where all princesses. So you know,
she's taken down a pay. So she moves to the
attic with Becky and starts working as a servant. They
become good friends. And then also there's something going on
next door. There's an old man who lives there who

(14:41):
has a son who is also fighting in the war.
He has gone like m I A. And then there's
an Indian man who lives with him. Again, that relationship
is unclear, although according to some of my research, he
is identified as a servant to the old man. And
then Sarah keep seeing him around town. And then there's

(15:03):
an injured soldier with amnesia who turns up who they
think might be the old man's son John, but it's
not because it's Sarah's Danny. Can you hear me? Listen?
I really thought she was going to launch into a
full musical, can you hear It's amazing? The restrength in

(15:25):
this not being a musical incredible, although she does sing
the song at the end. Oh okay, they were just
this close that. We'll talk about the child actress who
played her. What a what a story? We don't know?
Get it? Okay? Um? So the old man takes Papa in,

(15:46):
but he doesn't remember anything, he doesn't know who he is,
he doesn't know that he has a daughter, and Sarah,
of course, is not yet perfect to this information. Young
Sir Davos still hot. You can get it now, he
could get it in, So Sarah decides to start getting
back at Miss mentioned. They pour some soot into her room.

(16:08):
The other girls helps Sarah get her lock it back
by stealing it from Miss Mention. They go up to
the attic to give her the lock it and to
hear more of her stories, but then Miss Mention catches
them and she's like, Sarah, how many times do I
have to tell you you're not a princess? Look at
the mirror, your gross and you're not allowed to eat tomorrow,

(16:32):
and neither are you Becky. Sarah's all like, well, I
am still a princess. All girls are princesses. Didn't your
father ever tell you that? And then Miss mentioned she's
crying and she's upset, but we'll never learn why she
has to become a chimney sweep and her bosses and kids.

(16:52):
Couldn't you they explain literally everything. You're like, okay, but
why is she poor? Okay because the government sees it. Okay,
like they give you explation for everything. But then at
the end, she's like a chimney sleeping You're like, that
doesn't track I don't understand what happened to see her
get fired and there she didn't really the cops and
seem to care, like, I guess we just go home now.
For men to arrest a little girl was a lot.
But and then the plaque on the school says like

(17:18):
the Randolph School for Girls, and I think that's the
name of the man next door, so I guess he
buys the school reading it's fundamentals. But before that all happens,
Sarah and Becky even told that they're not allowed to
eat at all. They have to do like all their
chores without any meals for the day. And then they

(17:39):
wake up that morning and there's this whole feast in
the attic for them that we are meant to believe
the mysterious Indian man next door somehow provided for them,
and he like there's snow. He gives the whole room
and make over. Some real mystic surgery going on here, right,

(18:02):
And then miss mentioned comes in and sees all this stuff,
and she thinks Sarah stole it, so she calls the police.
So Sarah escapes into the house next door and sees
her father, but he still has amnesia and don't remember
the scene of the entire polow it gets me howls.
Oh my god. Her performance in that scene, you're like, whoa,

(18:23):
she almost fell off a building, like client how in
the rain running from the police, think goodbye to a girls,
she considers her sister finds the one thing she's looking for.
He's like, I don't know. I'm so sorry it's not
my kid more a please stage left. She breaks out
crazy and then so he doesn't remember who she is,

(18:44):
so the police come in and they're taking her away,
but suddenly he does remember because again the indianman stares
really hard at him, and he's cured of his amnesia.
And the music cue with the no More Amnesia. You're like, oh,
this is all sorts of wrong. It's only that one
music queue for all the magical happenstance this year, exact

(19:08):
same one. You're like, okay, I guess like that blod
It's response to because you're like, at this point, oh,
something good about right, it's so weird. And then they
have that conversation when Davos is like, blindfold is still on,
but you call him what's Liam cunning at BA? But
he's wearing his like his blindfold and his memory starts

(19:31):
to come back when the Indian man says he's from India,
and then Davos is like, India, that's it. But his
daughter's voice screaming for help across the alley lane. No,
shut the window. That's just a loud little kid next door.
But this India, you speak, it's his favorite place on

(19:55):
the planets. Only dream in India, okay, bro So then yeah,
so then her father remember, Papa remembers, and they reunite,
and then everything is great. Becky goes with them. I
guess I go back to India. Not sure. They at
least take a left. That's where the maybe somewhere better

(20:19):
than this. And then yeah, miss mentioned has to work
as a chimney sweep. Amelia has run off with the milkman.
Good for you, girl, and then that the end of
the story. And then there's no one to educate the girls,
and we don't know what the French teacher, I guess
is still there. That's not good for those girls. He

(20:39):
did not seem competent. He just wanted tea and a nap. Okay.
He was so tired, and to be very rude to
ladies in charge. Listen, we don't always have to agree,
but in front of children, we are reunited front and
be like, she could teach you a thing about your friends,
like bitch, what how dare you? Miss mentioned? Miss mentioned?

(21:00):
Ending up? And then the kid who's her boss was
a kid she had yelled at earlier. I appreciate that
that kid's are I was like, oh he gets yelled
at I mis mentioned, And then end he's like, I'm
your fucking boss. I'm seven, Like that kid hades he
was going in for that money. He was like, excuse me, no,
you pay me my job. He knew his value, yes, yes,

(21:21):
and taught our girls of value. Oh my god, what
a movie, what a wild story. Let's take a quick
break and then we'll jump into the discussion. Where where
should we start. Well, there's so much for me having

(21:42):
grown up with this movie and still appreciating it to
some degree. It's a story that is at least partly
about female friendship, like that's one of the core tenants
of of the movie. And then it's specifically about female
friendship among young girls, which is not that common in
like mainstream movies, which is crazy. But like we talked

(22:06):
a little bit about this on the it takes two episode.
But there's like just so few movies about like girls
being friends or like a no ensemble cast of young
girls and like the stuff that they do together and
the things that they talk about together, and like what
they have in and I I appreciate it. I was
a little I've had forgotten about the bully character and

(22:28):
I was like, oh, it's so easy to like create
friction that way. But even the like Sarah and what's
the name of that Carona and aunt named Lavinia's I
have a super soft spot for Hell yeah, I love Lavinia.
I love Lavinia because she is like I feel like
the film does a really good job of showing like
what Lavinia's issue. It's like Lavinia was the most popular

(22:50):
and probably would never have had a problem with this
girl except for that her. You're like, she's gonna be
the most popular girl, and she's like, whoa, whoa, my
status is in jeopardy and her status is like the
only thing she has. She loves having the girls follow
her around. And it's not no, it's definitely not like
the best kind of person. You don't want to model
your life after Lavinia, but it's like an honest portrayal
of I think a girl who has found herself like
a corner of attention, and I think it's strings through

(23:12):
all these girls stories, so they just missed their parents
really bad. And I think Lavinia never talks about her parents,
but I imagine part of this is missing her parents.
Part of this like popularity and being surrounded and being
comforted and knowing people like prefer her Like it's not
I do a lot of inferring in this movie, So
feel free to be like, well, that's a great headcanon,
but this is not what was shown in the movie.

(23:33):
A problem with it because I don't know, maybe I'm
trying to justify it, but I feel strongly like Lavinia
has a really solid art because even at the end
we get that great little hug where she was like
you because you're no longer going to be a problem.
You can't if you're not here, So I like you plenty.
He was like, Okay, she did not redeem herself in
any way. Lavinia did not. But suddenly Sarah's like, Okay,

(23:56):
let's hug. It seems a little to me like Lavinia
is Searcy and Sarah is Denares, and she's like Sarah
is very very pure she I. I liked the lavinia.

(24:17):
I liked that there was an ark and that that
was resolved and it wasn't just like and now the
mean girl is mean forever and right. I don't know,
I mean, all the relationships between the girls felt like
I mean, they spoke like they were, you know, thirty
at times, but that's movies, and I thought it was
the time period. I think like children, especially of an

(24:38):
educated certain level, were required to They were spoken to
like adults. You were considered like a young adult at
like twelve instead of like us were like your now,
you're like a whole person. People they had to quicker.
But I liked, I mean, all the relationships between the
girls at the school, it felt like realistic and it

(25:00):
was really nice to see how their worldviews were shaped
by the adults around them, which I think was like
had part to do with how the other girls received
Becky just based on what they had been told by adults,
where like that's there's that exchange between Sarah, who this
is like her first time. We're assuming this is her

(25:21):
first time seeing an interaction like this, and she doesn't
seem to understand, Like why isn't Becky with us, why
is she wearing something different? And then the girl she's
speaking to she says, that's Becky. She's not allowed to
talk to us. Why not? She's a servant girl and
she has dark skin, so well doesn't that mean something?

(25:42):
Like it's just like I mean, it was just like
it was interesting to see like a young girl like
encountering that and then also having the girls around her explain, oh,
isn't this just like how things are and like just
not challenging it, and it's such a great Like the
reason I really love this film is because of Becky essentially,

(26:03):
like Becky's the only black girl in her school. I
was only black girl in my school until seventh grade.
So the way the girls reacted around her, the way
that they had a lot of thoughts about who Becky
should be or how she should act like all that
like really resident like Becky looks different and she acts different,
and her responsibilities are different, and it's like to see
a film explorer, you have to be taught to hate

(26:25):
in a way that isn't so in your face about it.
It was sort of refreshing. I love the way that
that scene ends because there isn't really anything for her
to say, like she challenges as much as she can,
and Sarah challenges most situate like when they're like no
talking at the dinner table, She's like, well, that's unnatural.
People discuss, you know, it's weird. I just said thank you.

(26:45):
Usually that's you know, really rewarded as a child, like, oh,
she knows her manners um and so I I like
the idea of I think this film is a really
good job of showing like kids have agency and our
people and have thoughts, but oftentimes they don't know what
to do with those thoughts. Like I feel like a
lot of times, like when we get smart kids in movie,
they're like just slam dunking on adults. Like I mean,

(27:06):
we talked about like the precocious child trope all the time,
and I didn't feel as though any of the children
in this movie fell into that trope, which felt like
refreshing to see like kids acting like kids. And even
when like Sarah challenges Lonnie the smallest bit, you almost
see her be like, oh, I don't know, like like
that's just I don't know. I never had a cognitive

(27:27):
thought about this. I just accepted what was given to me.
And I guess it makes sense for Sarah to have
that attitude because I mean she grew up in India
among people with dark skin and like that, I mean
she was a British colonizer, even though she has an
American accent. Confusing, but I guess I mean people with

(27:49):
dark skin were very normal to her. This is where
I think it gets muddled, as like, Okay, it would
have been great to have gotten some reference points of
what her status wasn't that society and where her father's
position of rank was, because is he like just the
soldier hanging out and he's practically one of the people.
And then money, yeah, which makes me think there's much higher. Also,

(28:09):
when we see her room in India, it's like elaborate
and gorgeous. They say it's the biggest room. He says,
I spared no expense, like he's they're clearly very wealthy totally,
And so I think trying to figure out, like how
much did she see? How much does she aware? Because
as much as I believe you have to be taught,
also believe that by like ten, you've seen enough of
the world east can start putting together how human street

(28:32):
different humans differently, Um and I think she would have
seen bits and pieces of that in India, and so
it's like, I don't know, it's nice that she's so
innocent and you can kind of pass it off, but
it's also hard to believe that she would be like that.
And yeah, there's I mean, and there's like a lot
of and we can get into this later as well,
but like there's a lot of you know, like confusion

(28:52):
and a little bit of I guess I don't know
if we can call it a controversy if it's in
a hundred year old book. But Frances Hodgson Burnett, who
read this The Secret Garden uh never went to India,
had never been there, but us as like those colonial
themes like in the background of so many of her books,
and presents Indian characters as like very docile and like

(29:16):
the sight he really was bothering me. By the end
of the movie, I'm like, this is like maybe a
third of his lines are just that one word, and
it's such a signal call of servitude, and it's just like,
I don't think we needed it. She hangs out with
so many like servants, people of different skin color, Like
you could have made this person a human being as

(29:36):
opposed to just the magical genie figure, right, yeah, and
and I mean and it's like especially because like this
movie takes place in nine four when rebellion in India
is becoming like a huge thing. This is like when
Gandhi's movement is taking off, and they're like, no, they're
mostly just there to make dinner appear by magic. Like

(29:57):
it's just it's I don't know, so the like the
whole way that that author approaches stuff like that, it
seems to be like agreed upon that it's like very
at best, very misguided. That might serve as a good
transition into the conversation that I had with our friend
Paula Vanalan, friend of the show, friend of the show.

(30:20):
We had a quick chat with her that we will
play for you now. Hi, Caitlin, Here, I am sitting
with a friend of the podcast, Paula vignal In, who
watched the movie with us and then also recorded this

(30:41):
previously and then the audio quality was bad, my fault.
So we're doing this again. Yeah, I get to talk more. Yes,
So thanks for coming back. We really appreciate it and
we would love to hear your insights about the representation
of Indian people Indian culture in the movie A Little Princess. Yes,

(31:06):
you gave me notes because this was a month ago
and I forgot um. I guess we could start by
talking about the mythology that's represented in the movie, and
that's like the story of the Ramayanaum. To set this
up a little bit, the Sarah character is telling a
story to her classmates throughout the course of the movie.

(31:28):
So every so often we'll we'll cut two scenes of
Sarah telling the story, and then there will also be
other cuts to characters enacting the story that she's telling.
So that's the setup. And I think we thought that
from the beginning of the movie it was a story
told to her by an Indian woman that she's then relaying, Right,

(31:48):
that's what we're meant to believe, I think. But I
think she is taking ownership of the story because her
friends are all like, you're such a good storyteller, and
it's like she just was telling Hindu mythology, like a
whole religion to her friends, and it's just like I
came up with us well, full disclosure, when I watched
this movie a lot as a kid, I had no

(32:09):
idea that the story that she was telling was any
sort of Hindu mythology. I thought that I don't even
know what I thought it was Almo. I think I
thought as a kid that she was just kind of
making the story up as she goes, especially because we
see a scene in the movie at some point where
she doesn't like the boring story that's being told at
story time, so she starts to invent an alternate ending

(32:32):
for like, she basically writes fan fix in her during
story time. So I just kind of assumed that she
was applying those creative storytelling skills to her telling this story.
But now I know thanks to Lord Rama and Sita,
and it's a whole, a whole big thing in Hindu mythology,

(32:54):
and the way that it's presented. One thing that I
didn't I know that they can't tell like the whole
story of it, and they left out like blaring parts.
So they're banished to a forest, and he has a brother.
They don't bring up the brother, the brother's acute character. Um,
she gets captured by Ravenna, who is a demon with
many heads. The representation in this fucking movie was like

(33:17):
an acid trip. Not that I would know what that
is of course not of course not recorded audience. No
one has ever done drugs, no one, nobody knows what
drugs are, but assuming um, but yeah, it was crazy,
like the representation of the demon was insane, and then
there was like whole chunks of the middle. The monkey
god Hanuman is a big part of this story and
wasn't brought into it. So it's basically the kidnapping of

(33:40):
Sita and the rescue of her that was only represented
in this which is retelling very much like a fairy tale,
almost Christian did like just gent out of it. It's
just like a princess gets captured and a prince needs
to save her from a tower in a castle, like
that's what. I don't even remember the tower being a thing,

(34:01):
but I was like when I thought, I was like,
is this reponsible, Like what's happening? It's kind of invoking
like yeah, that's sort of imagery. So yeah, it just
it seems to me like she's just like doing this
very like American eyes, like bastardized version of this Hindu mythology,
and they whitewashed it even more by having white actors

(34:24):
play the god. Yes, okay, right, so when the movie
cuts away to Rama and Sita playing out the story
that Sarah is telling. The actors who are playing those
two characters are white. We've got Liam Cunningham, who plays
Sarah's father, who's also playing Rama in like blue face,

(34:45):
but like brown face essentially because it's you know, a
brown it's a brown blue face. Okay, right right, um?
And then Sita is played by an Australian actor named
Alison Moyer. Was she like the mom and the photograph?
I think so, yes, I think that's what. So basically
Sarah's like retelling a story with her parents cast as

(35:05):
like Hindu gods and god, yes and ship Um damn.
That's bold. That is bold. You were also saying that
she butchers a lot of the pronunciations of different like
I can't remember specifics now, but for sure yeah, um,
which is like, it's understandable white people can't pronounce things.

(35:27):
We know this. I'm sure I've already mispronounced. It's fine,
but everything together was troubled, right, because I mean it's
essentially again, because there's no nothing is done in the
movie to explain that the story that she is telling
actually comes from Hindu mythology and is not just some
like make believe she's Yeah, it's like a white girl

(35:50):
just taking over a whole religion, which is very invoking
of that. Do you remember when that like dad went
and planted a flag in Africa and declared that land
his daughter's like the American dad. That's what that felt
like a little bit. It's like my princess owns this now, right, Okay.
So then the other main issue, as far as I

(36:13):
can tell with the movie in this context is the character.
His name is rom Doss. Is that how you say that? Yeah?
He is the Indian man who lives next door to
the school where Sarah attends school. He essentially assumes the
role of a like mystical magical person who's like all seeing,

(36:38):
all know, he seems to have powers, like because like
white movies, American movies love to poise like a person
who is black or East Asian or South Asian as
the like magical foreigner trope, and this which movie does it?
I'm fine with As long as you think we can

(36:58):
curse you, I don't give a ship. As long as
you think we're more powerful than you, I don't know
the fuck like bow to us or whatever, Right, on. Yeah,
so he's like he does always show up, and there's
was I imagining this or like did I is there
like a sound of wind chimes whenever he shows up
or something like that. There's like a specific music cue

(37:22):
very Indian. Yes, it's almost like, yeah, he does his powers,
which is like anytime you look at him and he's
just like right because here are a few of the
things that happened as it relates to his magical mysticism.
He somehow always knows what's going on with Sarah. He

(37:43):
happens to be on the boat that Sarah and her
father are on when they're traveling from India to the US.
He just happens to live next door at the school.
It's suggested that he is the one who brings them
like this big feast. He decorates there. He basically the
girl eyes Yeah, their room, you know he does. He
gives them new clothes, he gives them food, he does

(38:06):
the whole Bobby decoration thing. It was it was Sarah
and her friend and it was yeah, they like walking
in the room, They're like, oh my god. They wake
up like in the like very ornate bed. So it's like,
how did he do all this stuff without waking them up.
He like did this overnight. So it's like this. I've
always argued that Santa Claus is Indian. We're very hospitable

(38:29):
and we'll come to your house and give you sweets.
I mean, the things that he does in the movie,
you know, are very kind and generous gestures. But I
think that some people might find this trope problematic. Sure,
I know it is. I just like exercising power over
white people, that is important, but yeah, it's not It's

(38:52):
not good to dehumanize other ethnicity. Yeah, it also justifies
trying to colonize them, right, It's like you're trying to
harness their power. It's like the fucking Wakonda thing. Why
everybody's trying to go there, you know what I mean,
Like they're like they have something, we want it. So
that's I don't know that character was played by a

(39:13):
brown man, right, Yes, so at least they didn't whitewash
every Indian character in the movie. And then the really
wild thing is that there's like this weird like dais
x mockin a thing that he does in the movie
where it's the climactic scene her father still doesn't have

(39:35):
his memory, and then ram Das just looks at him
but really hard him, super hard, very determined, and then
that's somehow, with his magical energy, he is able to
restore the memory of Sarah's father, and then that's what
effectively resolves the whole story. It's just really playing in

(40:00):
the trope of like Indian doctors. That's you're playing into
that trope to not every Indian is going to heal
your memory people, right, Like Indian people do other things
to be magic and be doctors. Also, like we have
to study hard to be doctors. Okay, we don't just
stare at people. Probably not as hard as everyone. But

(40:23):
I'm kidding, I'm kidding. So that, yeah, that's not great.
And then we also see him in like several different
scenes over the course of what we can assume is
many different months the movie takes. But but he's always
wearing the same exact outfit. I think, so I remember

(40:43):
there being so we talked about orange and green. He
wears orange and green a lot too. He's wearing I
think mostly gold or like, yeah, but if memory serves,
he's either wearing the same thing or nearly the same
exact thing in every as if he only has the
one outfit. Yeah, so's ever been to a fucking Indian wedding,

(41:08):
You know that's not true. We do changes during the
wedding ceremony in South India, so like literally the bride
changes her Sorry, So I just feel like that doesn't
do our culture, just mis representation. There's another kind of
bizarre thing that happens where Sarah puts a curse on

(41:29):
another classmate of hers. She like kind of speaks in
a language that I certainly didn't recognize. You said that
you didn't recognize it. It might just be that she's
kind of speaking in tongues and then she's like, oh,
that was just a curse from a witch that I
learned in India. It will probably make your hair found out.

(41:51):
So it's just like adding another layer of like showing
Indian culture is being like this mystical foreign and potentially
like almost like a scary thing that is like unfamiliar
and strange to white people, but that white people can
use at will, that can appropriate like yoga, They've taken

(42:14):
our powers from us yoga Kama Sutra. Yeah, people love
to steal stuff from other cultures. So those were the
main things that struck me in the movie. Was there
anything else that you wanted to touch on? I think
one thing that I we were talked about last time

(42:35):
was that the only representation we had at that point
was like a poo and then like this, and then
people would confuse the Indian in the cabinet and it
just like make a joke and I'm like, that's a
different thing. But okay, um, so there wasn't much, so
it it is interesting that they took this like mysticism
route as opposed to like the poverty route that usually

(42:59):
people take. I honestly don't really remember this movie from
my childhood, so I don't remember anybody like making fun
of me with it or whatever. Like I feel, I
feel like this movie was definitely for white people, like
a thousand percent, whereas I think like APU, like there's
so much, so much issue with it that people have now,
but like it definitely penetrated Indian American culture or like

(43:21):
South Asian American culture, like it was like in our lives.
But this movie, I like don't really remember it affecting me.
Watching this movie, I was like, it would be so
dope if Hindu mythology there was like a different take
on it that was like more American but still like
true to it because like watching it, I was like,
the coolest parts was the story, like you know what

(43:41):
I mean, like the Ramayana parts. But like I was thinking,
like it would be cool if there was something like
a you know, Romeo cross Juliette, or it was like
Leontero DiCaprio, like something like more modernized and like weird
and fun. I would love to watch that, but like
for Hindu mytholog But then also so whenever it cuts
to the Rama and Sita story, all the set designstra campy.

(44:05):
So oh that is camp. Oh, now I know what campus.
Everybody was arguing about what camp was for the met Gala,
and it turns out it's just those scenes from the
Little Prints exactly. Amazing. Yeah, the colors are just like
really weirdly like saturated and just like everything's like plastic
and it's just like, yeah, they definitely made it look

(44:26):
very fake, which was disrespectful. Yeah, it would be cool
to see like a because all of those mythologies, like
they're told over and over again in India in like
these different like cereals and like these movies and TV
shows and stuff. But it would be cool to see
like an American do it, like an Indian American or
Hindu American, like whatever do it. But with the technology

(44:48):
we have now and with like more like mad that
would be kind of cool. For sure. Someone pay me
all of your money. Thank you. That's anyways, that's a
thought that I had. But no, that's great. This has
been great. Thank you for this perspective. Is so helpful,
So we really appreciate you taking the time twice. The

(45:10):
next time it'll be even better like this. Thanks again
so much, thank for your very helpful perspective. And uh,
back to the episode. We gotta take a quick break,
but we will come right back. Wo. She formative and

(45:34):
helpful in placing my feelings on where things happen and
why they happen. And I feel like what kind of
that conversation reveals to it? Really we could have added
like a few moments here and there of dialogue, like
when they first meet, Like what if he introduced himself
and was like, hey, how you do it? Like she
could have like maybe said like I miss India and

(45:55):
they could have maybe talked about a place that for
them was both home, you know, and that might have
given like some levity, and we didn't need, like, you know,
twenty minutes of that. We need like to like some
vaguely defined friendship between them, Like I think that would
have served the story too, instead of him just appearing.
There's a lot of characters in this movie that I'm like,

(46:15):
we just don't know enough about them. I would include
Becky and that we don't really know what her background is,
and there were a few opportunities to provide that context
that just doesn't. I was so frustrated in the scene
where they're on the you know, they're talking through like
the wall in the attic and they're talking about how
um Sarah mrs India, Like this would be a great

(46:37):
time for Sarah to ask Becky, like what is your background?
She does not do that, and we never we like
we're given very little information about Becky's background, which and
I mean even less for the Indian man and and
and also mis mentioned, like we don't really know like

(46:59):
who what have pened? Why is she? I don't know
if I want to know any more about mis mentioned.
I'd been going really I've been going back forth about
it a lot because on the one hand, and like, well,
maybe there was like a thing with Sarah's mother because
we know Sarah's mother went there. Maybe that's like she
has like this ingrained like And on the other hand,
like this movie is doing something that I wish more
movies would do, which is tell me less. There's something
great about being able to fill gaps in a movie.

(47:21):
It doesn't quite work for TV shows and were eight
hours of content there, But when we have like ninety
tight minutes and you're just exploring people being themselves in
these moments, it's it's really intriguing to start wondering about it,
Like because that dad line really triggered her, Like that
actor got to make such great choices based entirely on
just where she wanted to take that character. She's like

(47:42):
she was in the Beatles. Help people think that maybe
eleanor Rigby was named after her. I couldn't find any
backup information on that. Paul McCartney did an interview with
g Q I think maybe last year where he explains
like where these songs came from. He describes eleanor Rigby
as a song about World War Two widows that he
like grew up with in the projects in London, and
it's a song dedicated to them and how their lives

(48:04):
never quite got right. But her name is Eleanor she
was in help maybe. But she also has like all
these cool, like weird roles. She plays a lot of
like witches and weird old people, and I think to
get such a she's so cool and she's alive, and
now I'm like trying to check her down and try
into a series on like aging Hollywood people. If you're
an outlet who wants that, DM me let me know.

(48:25):
Alice are like, well our readers like this, I'm like, yes,
like what happened to years old? Like Dori's day just
died and nobody got her final statements on how she
felt about her life. It's really annoying. I digress. Um,
she's really cool if you know her, like tell her
people love her still, but like to do such cool
things like women who especially at a time where your
option was getting married, or live a life of some

(48:48):
kind of servitude, for her to live alone, for her
to clearly not like that path she did some great
things with She's British, but there are moments where you
get like this New York accent that's very much like
a street New York like Brooklyn sounding. It comes out
particuly when she's Sometimes Sarah is so eloquently said, but
sometimes it's like Sarah with a hard eat. Yeah, like
almost like a Southern like it's it's I really feel

(49:11):
like the actress is just making really strong choices to
be like, listen, this is a woman who rose up
a bit. I think she doing the math. It seems
like she must have inherited the school from like a
mother figure, because the school is called Mismntioneds like seminary
for girls, but it was established in like the eighteen fifties.
Or maybe she's two hundred years old and has found

(49:34):
the fountain of you. She's a day walker. I love it, um,
But yeah, you don't get to see characters like either
of the meet Ums, especially in kids movies. They're either
totally awful or incredibly sweet. And to see an adult
who has an issue with the kids. I don't know
if you guys hang out any kids in my roommate.
My other roommate is a school teacher and she's like
somebod these kids are just bitches. She works in Beverly Hills,

(49:57):
so I don't know how much money has like the
financial train on things. But it's certainly your personality is there,
and sometimes you just don't like a child. How does
that manifest and how does that child deal with that?
Because she sar didn't do anything. I think Metam has
very valid reasons for being like, this girl is foolish
and she's gonna get steamrolled by life, and I'm going

(50:17):
to be the hard person who's in her face telling
her like it really imagines she can grow up. I
get used to it. But she also so limiting, so
refined even in herself. That floating down the stairs, Oh
my god, it's it's so creepy movies, especially older women,
Like I don't think I've ever seen House on Haunted

(50:38):
Hill was super movie for your show because it was
written by lesbian, But it is like any floating lady
just really creeps me out. And she just glad do
this like weird daddy thing and then her like her
frame is just like still floating, and I'm like, how
she looks like she's Dolly tracking herself, Like how is

(51:00):
that humanly possible? It was? That was like one of
the only things I remembered about the movie at all,
was that very memorable, so freaky. It says a lot
about her. She's clearly trained to be among high society,
and I think she's dealing with if you look at
the kids who she picks on. I think she's picking
on kids who remind her somewhat of herself, of something

(51:22):
that she shut down because the other girl Ermine Guard,
damn name she used the Bumblebee girl and that nineties
music video. Yes, yes, she's so. That's the same actress
who also did a really lovely job. She comes from.
I'm guessing like an Irish cop father who rose through

(51:43):
the ranks. Again, I have a lot of headcannon on
these characters. I love Erman Guards. She's so sweet, she's adorable,
but mentioned picks on her a lot in class for
not being able to do math, and she's like frustrated,
and I think anything that reminds her of like low
class or head in the clouds, she just cannot sad
king at that part of herself or just like excessive naive,
like naivete and kids seems to really bother her because

(52:06):
like Sarah is very naive when she gets there and
then it's like la la la, here's my story. And
she doesn't like that I feel like Ermine Garde sort
of falls into that category as well, where she's yeah,
she's like floatier and spacier and like mis mentioned, she's
a realist. She's like, the world is gonna hurt you,
and if it doesn't hurt you. I love that scene

(52:28):
with when erman gard goes to the attic and it's
like she's very upset and she's just like, wait, do
you want to be a way for it anymore? Like
I was like, oh God, I had that interaction so
much when I was like it save you're a girl,
you've ever bared your soul to another girl in a
very platonic way of like why are we not friends?
I'm trying to understand. It gets you. I really loved

(52:48):
that scene. And then they have and then like Sarah
and Becky have the knocking system, and I was like, oh,
this is like a little girl like paradise of like
secret coat bearing your soul the slumber parties where she's
just telling her very factually and accurate and probably racist story,
but the fact that they're like all like buried under

(53:09):
the covers and like listening and very intrigued, and it's
like there's there's a power in girl groups that and
especially I think if you're isolated the way they are,
they don't have any agency over there, like daily activities,
and so they're sort of very much bound to each
other um in the system. And it's still it's weird

(53:29):
to me that we don't have more stories about this
because it's such a defining point for like every woman.
You would think that there would be I mean, I
want to see more stories. I would buy tickets to
see more stories like this. I mean, there's so few.
It's it's wild how few there are. And like the Sister,
like the whole school kind of has this like subtle
ish arc where at the beginning you have lotty like

(53:52):
not questioning anything and just being like, oh, well this
is the way things are, of course. And and then
they also have like the girls in the school, even
the ones don't know as well. By the end, they're
all like down to do this like locket operation, and
they've made the decision that they're going to support each
other and not just like I'm getting there's like an

(54:12):
Ocean's eight sequence where they like the hell out of
this locket. Yeah, they get the locket back and oh
it's so and then like Becky gets like her big
moment where she makes a noise in front of people
that look like I thought it's a mouse. They just

(54:34):
mentioned it hits the door and east Ship, and we're like, yeah,
that's great. It's just so perfect. It's so sweet and
charming and Becky's journey. As much as I think that
she could have been a more central figure, what we
do get out of her it's so like great, Like
there's if you're black, you care about your hairline and

(54:56):
how kids are represented in films is really important to me.
And it was frustrating at first to be like, man,
this girl's hair is so messy. That's so frustrated by it.
But the more I watched the film and and again
watch the art that all of these girls get, it's
like she didn't have anybody who cares for her right,
Like she's clearly somewhat depressed, and how could you not

(55:17):
be being surrounded by girls your age and not being
allowed to have any kind of interaction with them that
even this girl just looking at her is like wow,
And you get like even the reversal of the moment
when Sarah kind of storms in on Becky to be
like Sarah in her again very naive mine. It's like
I don't, like, just go make friends, and Becky like,
who the hell are you doing? Like you cannot be

(55:37):
in my room and we are both gonna get in
so much trouble. Please leave. Um. She stands up for
herself that a way I think when you get it,
here's what if you get a token black character. So
often they are just treated very much like side characters.
And for Becky to get not just a name, not
just a role, but like to be taken with her
at the end, and her dress looks so good and

(55:57):
her hair it's so perfect, and she's like they're very
much treated as equals, like even though it's like magical
and stilly, how they get that breakfast, like they both
get the same shoes, which I like, always live and
that kind of stuff like I have, like Susie Carmichael
Becky in this movie. Yeah, as as far as like
talking with my white peers about like black representation under

(56:20):
the age of twelve, this is little were kind of
it as who they knew and so to see like
both of those characters sort of rise and be powerful
in their own rights. And like Becky literally finds her
voice by screaming, and you know it's to help these
other chump white girls. You didn't really get her a lot,
but do you know a lot of else to work with? Um?
And I man, I like it still, even though it's problematic,

(56:41):
even though it's very much a signal of how desperate
I was for representation and any of the things I
was watching. So you don't get black girls in period pieces.
I'm obsessed with period pieces. I'm obsessed with fantasy. And
so this's like Becky always has like a special place
in my heart. She's awesome. That's that I do like.
I love Sarah and Becky's scenes together are very sweet

(57:04):
and very just like it's so nice. Yeah, I have
a question, Yeah, um, do you think this is a
white savior story? Oh? I mean yeah, if you're just looking,
Becky isn't given enough to do to really save herself,
and she doesn't really seem to ever desire more. We again,
like you guys said, we don't really know much about

(57:25):
her life outside of this situation. There's not even a
lot of like poor shadow. I mean that would require
a lot for an actress too of that age to
be more about her outside of what's in the text.
So yeah, it is a white savior story. I like it.
Damn it. This is so hard. I always really analyzing
this movie is much more difficult than just sitting back

(57:48):
and enjoying it. Like, no, it's just whimsical and like
the guy who had Children of the Men with the
snow scene and it doesn't cry, it's so pretty um
what we think about a context, you're like, dang ish,
use I don't, I mean, And a lot of those
problems seem to be it's like a lot of it.
I want to blame a lot of it on Francis
Hodgson Burnett because that's like so built into the story

(58:09):
and she has such a bad track record with like
writing non white characters at all. But with with adaptations,
it's like there was room in this movie for their
for us to know more about Becky. They're just was
This is Alphonso Crels first studio film in America, so
we have two Mexican tours essentially in Lebitsky and Craylon

(58:31):
coming up to do their first big Precious also Emmanuel's
first big studio film, so I know that they they
were kind of felt free in in the visual representation
because that's why they got hired. But outside of that,
I'm not sure like how much agency they felt they
had to imbue dark skinned characters with storylines. And to
be fair, that never seems to be Alfonso's sort of

(58:52):
bad either. I don't think he really cares about I mean,
he's out there darkning Harry Potter movies. Yeah, oh yeah,
and we just did a Roma, which is great but
also has a lot of colorism issues if you want
to talk to indigenous Latino X women about that. So yeah,
it definitely I think if it were made today, we

(59:14):
would demand much more out of it as a film. Yeah,
did you know that this movie failed spectacularly at the
box off didn't yet had a seventeen million dollar budget,
only made ten million dollars? What were we doing in?
I know, it's like it's I feel like, for the
like year it came out, this is you're not going

(59:34):
to get much better. To be fair, though, I my
parents were big movie buffs, were at the movie theater
a lot. I did not see this until home VHS,
saying so, yeah, we might have been part of them.
I'm sure my dad was like, first, I'm not sitting
through any princesses movies and go yourselves. And then I
have no idea what my mom was doing. This is
totally a per alley. That's interesting. Was it a Christmas release?

(59:57):
Do you remember the release date? Really? It was released
in May? It was really what that's the problem. Okay,
if we go back, we talked to the add people,
be like, this is a Christmas season film. Get the
hearts warm. We like Dickens era stuff. It vaguely looks
like Christmas in this weird, indescribable way because it's half
it's green, which is half of Christmas color. Can we

(01:00:18):
talk about Alfonso and green. He's really weird for green.
He loves green. Um, I was okay. So when we
were watching this with Coula, we were all like, the
green and the gold, there's got to be some symbolism here.
I read some like hokey blog posts that posited some theories,
none of them quite lined up, and I was like, okay,

(01:00:38):
well maybe he talked about it, like maybe there is.
I was like, is this in the book? Is it?
Is it him? Like? I don't know what? And the
the answer is is puzzling which and it is simply
that Alfonso loves green. That's it. Like there are quotes
from him there. There is like a great interview done
with the costume designer of this movie, Judyana Makovsky, right

(01:01:03):
when this movie came out, and apparently they had like
a big argument about how he was like, I only
want green. Nothing cannot be green. She's like I can't
do that. She's like, I will quit if you make
me make everything she did do that green on Green
school Girl before the clothes are green, the building that
the school is in his green, the shots of like

(01:01:26):
anything happening in the kitchen, there's so much lettuce and
green apples in the frame, Like are we getting all
this money to buy all of this fresh produce? That
very suspect to me. I was like, no, no, you
didn't buy that at the New York Market. We saw
her just shopping at Yeah so so. And then the
quote like a year later, I guess he was asked
about this directly in a New York Times interview and

(01:01:49):
he says, quote, I have to say green is the
only color I understand. I can really frame it, I
know how to work with it. I see other colors
and they feel alien. I cannot give you a rational explanit.
I love that it's just my art. When you please
just watch it or don't, it's so like, I just
don't care. I'm obsessed with the especially in this era

(01:02:11):
when you've got that like weird Emerald marble Green a lot,
so it's like golden white flext but then you're also
dealing with a lot of natural greens. And I think
coming from the India set scenes to here, this looks
like such a polished like studio film. It's like like
a thirty style like studio like when they're doing the
kind of it's not c g I yet special effects.

(01:02:32):
Visual effects is what we would have called it back
in the day. That freaky which if you, oh my gosh,
there's an Alec Baldwin film, we're a similar demon creature
like that comes up and I'm like, did they borrow
things from each other? Um? I love it. I love
all of the Green movie. And it's like a living
like urban jungle, and I feel like now that urban

(01:02:53):
jungle is really in as a style choice, like looping back,
I really like. I mean, it's always because we get
so like I mean, the point of the show is
to be in the weeds and like really analyze everything,
and then sometimes you do just like Nope, there's no reason,
and that is so comforting. You're like, great, everything is chaos.
Alfonso likes green. That's why I don't look for meaning

(01:03:16):
in anything. Yeah, that's why words ending the show today.
Something I wanted to talk about is that a big
deal is made in this movie about the idea that
all girls and all women are princesses. This, I think
can be seen as an empowering message for the young

(01:03:38):
girls who are seeing this movie, who this movie is
targeted to, because it's basically saying all girls have value.
But I also think that the connotation behind the word
princess invokes like a certain image and certain idea blond
with giant blue eyes, perfect man and like Sarah down

(01:03:59):
to it. I mean, like all like all canonical princesses
does not have a mother sound exactly princess tropes. And yeah,
so this like idea of like the princess type has
historically not been empowering, and largely because what media has
like put forth about what a princess is basically every

(01:04:20):
Disney movie pre two thousand today, because like, princesses always
end up with a prince or a man. In general,
they rarely have a storyline that's anything besides a romantic relationship.
They are largely siss white, able bodied girls or women.

(01:04:42):
They are rich and from the highest socio economic class. Uh,
they rarely have a mom or really any female relationships
to speak us. So it's a lot of diming in
this movie sort of place. So that yeah, against type
a lot too. If we think about just the last
one you said doesn't have a lot of female friends,
She's only got lady friends. Um, she doesn't have a mom,

(01:05:04):
but yes, has a lot of girlfriends. And then if
we look at the fact that who else she sort
of inspires or shows to be princess, not just Becky
who she takes with her at the end, and they
again looking like sisters, like they belong together, same costuming
and all of that. You also get the same thing
with Amelia, who is like the plump lady who would

(01:05:25):
definitely have been considered past her time. This the milkman
is kind of hot. They actually had chemistry, which I
get really upset when plus size women. As a plus
size woman, when women get cast against guys who are
clearly not into them, I'm like, listen, casting, we gotta
do better, like find better actors. You don't really have
to be in love. Lots of actors are not. I
need to see like the chemistry otherwise I'm not believing it. Um,

(01:05:48):
they clearly were into that whole like two second milk exchange.
I think that's what like hot, Yeah, it's oh my gosh,
it's so steep, and she's like, I'm just gonna wait.
He's definitely coming back, and then she just like holds
onto the thing and it's like, don't go, like we
are connecting. You know, this all kinds of like glorious
sexual time and from the get go, like Sarah sees,
all of them is equal. So I think it a

(01:06:08):
getting placed into our earlier issue of naivete. You know,
how much do we believe that a girl of her status,
who looks like she does, who has all the advantages
in the world, truly believes that everyone is treated equally
in the film? She does, And again, because she does,
it just justifies that villainary. More like, if we keep
following back into that idea of Okay, probably not, but

(01:06:32):
maybe she's the exception. You can kind of I can
bridge the gap I can bridge the divide. Yeah, I
feel the same. I mean, I I totally agree with
all of I mean, the concept of a princess in
culture is like flawed and like, right up until today,
I think that. But I just felt like the way
that she uses the word princess, like her meaning of

(01:06:55):
it is a little bit different. Like I didn't think
that she was saying like, oh, everyone is like rapunzela.
I felt like she was the way that Sarah was
using it. And I don't even know if this is
the way that Davos meant it when she said it
to her, but the way that she interprets it, I
thought was like saying, like a princess as like worthy

(01:07:16):
and like worthy respect. And yeah, one of them even
follows that logic too, and like I really love the
idea that. Again, as wrong as the stories were, the
way they were used as devices to inflict and impact
her life were really interesting. Like when she's first sent
to the attic, she creates a circle of safety like
the one from the story to protect herself. She gives

(01:07:37):
she takes the same advice she gave not Lillian the
other The little girl cries, she gets hurt, the same vice.
You know, just because I don't know, just because I
can't hear them, doesn't mean they can't hear me. And
so she starts calling out to her father. But then
we get that really great emotional exchange where she's in
the street and like some boy, out of the kindness
of his his naive heart, gives her a coin. The

(01:07:59):
mother is like, nope, that's awful. Look, she's just followed us.
She's trying to give the coin back. She's like, I
don't want it, I don't need it. I'm okay. Now
she has the money, so she bites herself, like what
I believe is the cross hot bun or kind of
like it is a hot, delicious tree, and she is cold,
and she has been working all day. She had to
fight a boy to keep the stuff in her basket
and right, and she's about to eat it. She sees

(01:08:20):
another girl who are clearly having much worse lives than her,
Like they're trying to sell flowers somewhere where they got
these yellow roses in the middle of winter. I have
a questions, but they have them, and they're selling them,
And so she gives it to that girl. That girl's
mother is like, make sure this girl gets a flower.
Don't let her go without it. She in turn gives
the flower to the old guy who just found out
he lost his son. And when she gets a flower,

(01:08:40):
she calls her a princess. She says, for the princess.
And so I think this idea of being a princess
not being about having money. She was a princess even
when she hit her lowest point, even when she didn't
have anything like it was still her ability to just
be kind and giving. And again it's just, oh man,
it's really hard in the world, being an adult and
living in this world to be like, yeah, none of
this happens. But if you want to enter a land

(01:09:03):
of like make believe and and believe in like the
quality and good in children who have not yet been corrupted, Wow,
it's impactful. I mean the way that Sarah uses like
something I was like thinking about through the movie is
I feel like, you know, like we talk a lot
about privilege, and I feel like it's generally used as
a negative term, but I think Sarah is in some ways.

(01:09:27):
There are there are ways where you're like, oh, this
is getting a little white savior, this is getting a
little like it's a very delicate balance of like how
to write one of these characters well. But for the
most part, I thought that the way that Sarah used
her privilege and that she clearly has was setting a
relatively good example of just like she does use her

(01:09:48):
privilege while she still has money and fancy stuff, she
uses it to help people. And then and then when
she doesn't have much, she you know, she still has
a fair amount of privilege and still tries to all people.
So it maybe wish I had seen this movie when
I when I was younger, because it's you know, it's like,
if you do have a protagonist that has a lot
of privilege, then like, you know, go to great lengths

(01:10:10):
to show how you can use your privileges. Yeah, I
agree there. To me, there are two kind of main
takeaways from this movie that are potentially conflicting. But one
is that like, Sarah is a princess because she is
kind and because she is generous and nice to everyone,
and she isn't afraid to challenge the oppressive systems that

(01:10:34):
are in place. The other takeaway is that everything will
be fine as long as the loved ones you thought
were dead are actually still alive. And you are still
very rich, right, I mean her like return to richness
and like that vague thing that like Davos at the end,
it's like, yeah, I told them I wasn't dead. Got

(01:10:55):
all my ship bocks, like okay. I do wonder how
the film would have turned out if either her dad
never got his memory back or he just wasn't there
and had died in the war. Because she has no
motivated It's not like she's motivated to go find her father,
like she is just going to escape. And before she escaped,
she turns back and she's like, I'm coming back for you.

(01:11:15):
And there's a small part of me that really wants
to believe this girl as tough as hell and would
have figured a way out in New York and probably
not kept all of that like glorious sweetness about her,
but maybe would have found a way to to survive
and space for her and her friend. It would have
been hard. As listen, someone right the alternate Universe fantasy
fiction and sent it to me. These girls got to

(01:11:36):
just survive on their own, and they're like amazing and
tough and scrapping. They start a small business there. I
liked one of my favorite parts of this movie was
during the escape part, the dais X plank that appears
a perfectly measured plank to get from one window to
the other. And I like went back to because we

(01:11:57):
watched it last night with Paula VI and then when
I watched it again this morning, I'm like, maybe that
maybe the plank is set up, maybe it's been there
the whole time. But she, like Sarah just turns to
Becky and he's like, help me get this board. I
was like, what the board is, Sarah floor. I thought
it was going to be the green like thing that
moves in between their walls. It's like they have like

(01:12:17):
a loose kind of plank. I thought she was gonna
be like, just snap that off and let me climb across.
This the thing that connects us, launching us into a
new life. I don't know something, but it was not.
It just maybe the magical indianman who lives next door
foresaw this would all happen and gave her the plank

(01:12:38):
whenever he was like decorating the room and like setting
up this huge banquet for them. Oh, so my theory.
He was like, I actually, he's like he set everything
up really quietly and like when does he know he
sees Sarah? He saw her on the Titanic like boat

(01:12:58):
that they come to America from India on. He saw
them like daughter and father dancing together. He knows their relationship.
He knows that Daddy is sitting ten feet away. He
also saw Daddy Davos give Sarah a heart shaped necklace,

(01:13:19):
not on like what happens in Titanic, but so yeah,
he knows. He's like this omniscient guy a lot of
these issues if we had just seen him watch dude
come into the building with his daughter, because like if
if he is aware of like, oh, this guy looks
like the same dude that dropped the daughter off of
the school, Well you should take him in there, because

(01:13:41):
you have the means to do so. If you can
rewatch this movie thinking about this guy is just playing
the ship out of everyone around him. It is wildly
more entertaining. I feel like it is. Yeah, It's just
I don't know. With the plank and the ending, it
like it gets so fantasy at the end that I'm like,
I I mean, I'm I'm happy to accept, like and

(01:14:03):
everything worked out like happily ever after, Sure, Davos is alive. Sure,
you know, like why why not? Something I did like
though that we haven't talked about yet. It's like the
way that grief is portrayed in this movie I thought
was really cool and not something you get to see
in kids movies at all, or especially like played in

(01:14:24):
like I thought, like a pretty thoughtful way, because you
all you were saying earlier, like it's clear that all
these kids are missing their parents and then in the
case of Lottie and then later Sarah, are actually their
parents aren't coming back for them, and like seeing that
play out in different ways. With Lottie, it's just the
screaming fits in front of the music box, or like

(01:14:47):
Sarah gets, like I mean, it's like really devastating to
watch how depressed she gets. She's like there is no magic, right, Yeah,
she's very clearly going through the depression phase of grief. Yeah,
and like just the way that she like sort of
it's just sort of SAPs all the like positive energy
out of her, and then it's sort of then the

(01:15:08):
young girls that she knows that like lift her back
up and and so I just I really thought that
it was like a cool, thoughtful presentation of grief, and
again it's like all that is sort of undone at
the end where you're like you didn't have to grieve.
Daddy was across sister, but the way I was presented
but I thought was like was lovely. And also I

(01:15:29):
just found out on Wikipedia dot organ ever heard of
it that the Chimney Sweep as Alfonso Korn's son. Yes,
or he was so good. He was so good. And
when you talk about the girl, uh, Lisa Matthews is
the girl that places there. She comes from like a
billionaire family from Chicago, which explains the American accent. She's

(01:15:55):
like a prince great yes great. Actress went on to
do Air Force One played uh, oh my gosh, Harrison
Ford's daughter say solo. But I'm like that's not right,
Uh play his daughter. She did one more movie after that,
not a successful but now she like runs like a
Hedge Fune company that like gives money to sub Saharan Africa.

(01:16:16):
Is a jillionaire and like we're I mean, her family
owns Hyatt hotels and we know about families that own
hotel chains. It always ends well, Uh, they own the
Royal Caribbean cruise Line. They own the TransUnion credit bureau.
She's from like a lot of money. So basically she

(01:16:38):
was like, I want to be an actor, and then
everyone was like, okay, you're an actor now, great, a
really good child actress. I don't know if it just
didn't transition as an adult or she was like, Oh,
I have money, I don't have to do this. Good,
do something else. She married a hot guy who kind
of looks like Jamie Lanister, like like an average Jamie Lanister.

(01:16:58):
You know, they live in Austin. It's like it's rich
people like I do. It's funny. I'm really glad that
she is like she like, or at least was like
a very talented child actress, because I'm like, the second
I was like started reading about her, I was like, oh,
she was like, Dad, wouldn't it be cool if I
was a movie star And he was like, yeah, sure, okay,

(01:17:20):
I don't care. Businesses to run multiple Also, Camilla Bell
is in this movie, which one was Kamilla Bell Jane,
I don't know one of the girls like that. I
hope it was the girl. Wait a minute, was she
the girl who told Lavinia like, I don't care what
you're doing. I want to listen to these stories. Oh,
I hope, So I don't know. I was like, I
don't really remember. And there's two Jane, Betsy and Ruth

(01:17:45):
are characters that I I'm assuming that they were all
girls at the school, but I have no idea they
were hanging out in the background. I like that it
was a small group of girls and they were not
running through child actors. They're like, no, this is the group.
They're here to deal with it, um. And I also
like the staging for this. I would be so curious about,
like what is it like to direct that many kids,
because they talked to a bunch of stars from Susanne

(01:18:07):
and they're like, so there were six kids and they
were a lot like kind cool kids, but there must
have been so many like child wranglers on. So I
mean you get to think that like Alfonso Korn has
to just work well with children, because it's like, I
mean this movie especially, there's basically only children, and he

(01:18:27):
manages to get like some really impressive performances out of kids,
which is like a testament just as much to him
as it is to them. And then you know he
like he tamed Rupert Grant or whatever. Later like he
knows how to work with child actors. I mean we're
notoriously I love up. I have a question them forever.
Is he a good actor? I mean, I don't know.

(01:18:50):
I like his new comedies, his Little Big TV show.
I think they're adorable and definitely like he is lean
his second act. Yeah, well, I mean also like and
oh my god, what's his name? Daniel Radcliffe was a
bad actor in the first two Harry Potter movies and
then gets pretty good in a Prisoner of Azkaban. I'm

(01:19:10):
sure that Emma was like, listen, we can get this together.
She was like, let's just try some exercises. They all,
I feel like they all to level up in the
third one kind of yeah, And by the fourth one
we're really just flying, which for me was perfect. The
fourth book is my favorite, and I was like, here
we go, and then ours comes in. My heart is
really softening. Terry Potter as I'm so glad to hear that. Um,

(01:19:35):
can we go back to Amelia really quick? And I
would like to pose a question, how do you feel
the representation of bigger women is in this movie? Like
all of the representation, we got so close. They did
not let a fat Joe slip until her final moment,
and I was livid. I was like, guys, we did
so good. She was just a lady. She fell in love.

(01:19:58):
None of the kids were like judging or making faces
behind her, like it was a polished perfect and then
they're like throw the suitcases at the guy in the
land on top of them because that's what sells, Like damn,
that was just so exciting there. It was. I mean,
I feel like she her character in general, and I
couldn't really tell how much it was, like whether it

(01:20:18):
was a comment on what she looked like at all,
but like she was the slap stickiest of the people
at the school. Because it's like anytime someone would make
a loud noise, it would be like like she would.
She she had big physical reactions to things, responsible for
the crying girl, which was so even she's conspired with

(01:20:39):
Satan cursed me um. But I liked, I mean, I
liked the scene with Sarah and Amelia on the staircase.
I thought that was another like lovely little Sarah moment
of like ne're worthy of love and she was like
Amelia is like I hate children out of here. So
that's where I think that they film doesn't like it's
like good in two ways and the bad and three like.

(01:21:02):
I think they do a really good job of subverting
expectations fat women are supposed to like love kids. They're like,
you're the natural caregivers, you have the tits like make
it work, um, And so for her to like for
the whole time just be like, I'm really not, I
don't know how to, don't want to, would rather not
be here. I thought's interesting for a character like her.
I think that, yeah, putting her in a slapstick position, certainly,

(01:21:25):
I don't know. I feel weird about it because if
it was two men running an all boys school, we
most likely would have the exact same dynamic, you know,
like a tall, thin person and like a shorter, fatter person.
Has been like comedy like how we make it work
in partnerships for so long. Visually, Um, I'll say this again,
we're desperate for representation. We're grasping to what we have.

(01:21:47):
This movie goes above and beyond what most representations at
the time where. And I think if you look at
it in a time period capsule, that way, you can
be like, Okay, I can value what we were aiming
for even if if it came out today, we wouldn't
anywhere near reach our standards of excellence and at least,
I mean, you do know more about Amelia than you
know about miss Minchin, Like she has more of like

(01:22:09):
we know more about her personal life and like her
feelings and thoughts and context for them than for her sister.
Of the main thing or one of the main things
that you know about Amelia is her like fawning over
a man. That's true, I mean, but we also know
she hates her job, like I don't know, we see

(01:22:29):
her as a person who like, Okay, so since we've
been Game of Throne saying, just batting it in over
the place, my girl, brand A Tarth gets late, like
not anywhere on her to do list, right, but she
finds herself falling for a guy. Then next day, dude's like,
so I'm actually still in love with my sister. I
gotta go back home and deal with that. And she cries,

(01:22:50):
and it's like the whole internet like it's having like
a very divided meltdown of whether like these tears are okay.
I think when you put women who present differ really
in situations of love and allow them to be soft
that it's a blessing because I know certainly I didn't
see a lot of that growing up. Like if you
were tough, you were just tough all the way through
and no man could ever get to you, and you

(01:23:10):
did not need love. That's not like a realistic like
situation for many people. Some people do desire love, and
I don't think that I should always fall back to that.
And I do think for both Brianne and for Amelia
that there were opportunities for better representation. That being said,
Like Amelia got her dude, like she like got to
fall in love, and it was something that that character

(01:23:31):
clearly wouldn't allow herself to think about before. And so
to see her be in love, to see her come
to terms of that, and then to see her go
for it, like, that's a cool story arc that frequent
and for the most part not be made fun of
for it. Uh think it's really beautiful. Really had to
squeeze it in, didn't you help yourself? That's a great point. Yeah,
I am also, and let me know what your thoughts

(01:23:52):
are on this. But um, the way that it is
characterized is, I mean, most of the girls at this
school are very slim, Guard is a little bigger. She
seems to be characterized, at least in the beginning, as
like kind of a more pathetic I was worried about

(01:24:15):
that tropes like sleeping in of like token chubby girl
who all the other girls are going to make fun of.
But then the movie, I don't know, I mean it
kind of likes to flash her out more almost any other.
I don't know that's true. I mean she she has
only picked on by one girl, the girl who picks
on literally everybody. So there's that point. I think she
is shy, but then they make it not about her

(01:24:35):
body but about her worry that she's not going to
please her father and that man. That conversation also brais me.
When she she's talks to Sarah about her dad and
she was like, you know, he doesn't like being here.
He's like, well why would she? He sent you to
some place he doesn't like to be and she's like, well,
he wants me to fit in and he doesn't feel
he can fit in. And to you such kid words
for such big grown up ideas of like I want

(01:24:58):
better for you, but also I hate this police and
if I become this do we not have a relationship anymore,
and she doesn't have any of the words to describe
all the things she's feeling, but she's trying, and it
is so beautiful. And so I think again, the way
the film lets in these little contexts, and the fact
that it doesn't give you the answers to everything, it
allows for better headcanon representation than maybe what the film's

(01:25:22):
intentions were. I'm gonna keep clinging to it. That's what
I had. I stand like, I I wish she could
have I wish she could have gone with Sarah and
Becky too, because she had a dad. But I also
caught myself thinking about the exact take erman Gard with you.

(01:25:43):
She also needs liberation. Yeah, and then her dad is
proud of her that she can speak French. So that
was nice to see. Yeah, And in general, I mean
all the what is this man's role in colonialism? Aside?
I liked the relationship between Sarah and her dad. I

(01:26:04):
thought it was like very it was nice to see,
you know, just like a positive relationship between a father
and I feel like so often, even in movies about princesses,
the father and the daughter are at odds about every
expectations of her, or like it was nice to just
have like the presentation of I mean, he says it

(01:26:24):
in the first scene when the only scene where they're
actually in India, where he's just like, I think you
can be anything you want to be, or like it's
just a very like if you wrote out like stock
nice Daddy Davos character, it would be this, and I thought,
I thought that was like lovely and gives her a
lot of agency to to speak on her own behalf
to like in the when they're in the classroom and

(01:26:45):
the teachers like, yeah, you can't wear jewelry, and she
like looks her dad and he's like, what do you
want to do kids, because like, yeah, I do insist
on keeping it. And before then he just he always
allows her this sort of space to just be herself,
so that again it's sort of believable that she feels
sort of like a little adult because she you know,

(01:27:06):
she's the one constantly comforting him already, it's like, what
do you do rememorizing me by heart? She's like, I
know you by her Daddy, I'm gonna be okay, You've
got to go to war because she his wife. That's
get a little promised me. At points, I'm like, yikes,
maybe dad needs to find a wife. Like she's taking

(01:27:28):
on but overall charming. And I don't know if you
guys are Daddy's girls either, and I certainly amps are
very tight. But he would never allow me to be
a princess. He was like, I don't know what any
of that garbage is, but take that too on time,
move the lawn like some dishes, and maybe we'll like

(01:27:49):
watch a movie after work at the hockey rank, Jamie.
But it is nice to see you, like a single dad,
like be able to like connect with his daughter in
a in a way that we usually don't see in
movies because usually I'm thinking of like, um, a league
of their own. We're like the one dad, like the

(01:28:09):
single dad raised his daughter like a boy basically because
he's like I don't know how to do girls stuff.
So she boyd now I am dad. We don't know
what to dad dode but yeah, so it's like he's
like embracing the femininity that she wants to display at

(01:28:30):
that time in her life. And he's like, yeah, you
are our princess, and yeah, but you can be whatever
you want to be. Yeah. It was really it warmed
my frigid heart. I thought it was so nice. Does
anyone have any other thoughts about the movie? I will
say that in the alleyway, when um we're seeing the

(01:28:55):
chimney sweep, there is a cat. That cat has eight nipple?
Can we also love Daddy Davos to death? But how
amazing would Freddie Wilina have been in the dead role?
He would have been. I mean he used British, so
he's very kind you. I've like, maybe I just want

(01:29:16):
to hear him say you're a little princess. Maybe I
just want that audio clip out there in the world.
I don't know. He would have been incredible in that role.
Like genuinely, I hope he was approached and was like, sorry,
I'm preparing for Spider Man two ten years from now.
He was like, I need a long time to figure
out this role. I mean, I have to play Dot.

(01:29:38):
And in the same year was that when Like Species
came out. Okay, this is actually a critical part of
the show. What was he in What was he doing?
Maybe he was doing theater, Okay, he was in something
called Nervous Energy, he was in something called Hideaway, he
was in something called Scorpion Spring. He was in something
called dead Man. He was in something called the Perez

(01:29:58):
Family Man. He wasn't something called the Steel. He wasn't
species that year. Yeah, so you know he apparently he
had tons of ship very busy. My goodness, damn paying
the bills in nine Molina, so many questions about where
this Molina of such a god. He's just so handsome.

(01:30:22):
I will not deny. And then and then we later
found out also woke because i'minist icon. Yes, I mean,
did you see that scary kaleidoscope Vagina? He posted? Loved it,
hated it, I don't know. It was the ultimate older
gentleman ally move where you're like, this is actually a

(01:30:42):
bit much. But I appreciate where you're coming from seeing
my Laurence Fishburn obsession, and I really value and appreciate
your love of Molina. I hope Molina and Fishburn are friends.
I feel like they're like they're such character actors. I
just assume all character actors are friends. Why wouldn't they
be like the same talent bond over it? True, fish Brandon, Melina,

(01:31:10):
it's better than most of the candidates we have. We
have to overlook that Alfa Millina is fully British. Hey,
speaking of talking about men or not. Does this movie
pass the backtel tests all over the damn place? It does. Yes,
many combos, many different conversations. Hard yes on that. Yeah,

(01:31:33):
let's write it on our nipple scale five nipples based
on its representation and portrayal of women. I think I'm
going to go like three and a half. I feel
like we have fully thanked when its to nipples at
this point. Yeah, because there's a lot of good things
that this movie is doing. You know, it's a very
female driven story. It shows a young girl like using

(01:31:58):
the privilege that she has to empower other people, specifically Becky,
and that does get into you know, white savior territory.
And you know there are some like mean girl characters
who seem to be mean for no reason or like
their characterization is kind of glossed over. But you have

(01:32:20):
enough other different personality types and the other girls that
it's not at all like, oh, all girls are pitted
against each other anything like that. So you have like,
what are several very healthy relationships between girls. So that
is very nice to see. There are some weird things
about how Indian culture and people are depicted thing and

(01:32:45):
and triple a million thanks to Paula v for uh
for giving us some contexts for that. She'll be back
for a dark Night episode Watch Out every Yes, thank
you so much to her for her insight. And then yeah,
other little things here and there where you know, there's
like that fat joke that they didn't need to do

(01:33:07):
and then they did it, you know, different things like that.
But yeah, I would say a solid three and a half.
I'll give one nipple to Guard, I'll give one nipple
to Amelia, mentioned I'll give my remaining one and a
half nipples to Becky. Yeah, I'm going to go three
and a half as well. Uh, for basically all the reasons.

(01:33:29):
I mean, there's a lot of examples that I think
we've talked about at this point of things getting close
and then either petering out at the end, or like
with Amelia, like you're like, oh, we've got we've got
a story arc for a fat character and it's like
but then it's sold out at the last minute, or
like there's a lot of little examples of that, Like
there's no excuse adaptation wise that we shouldn't know more

(01:33:53):
about Becky and that she shouldn't be like grounded in
her own story. It would only help literally everything, um,
everything that Francis Hodgson Burnett put pen to paper on
in regards to India is cuckoo. And uh, there's a
lot of bad tropes that play there that again, like

(01:34:14):
adaptation wise and this movie, it should be mentioned was
there there are two writers, one of them as a woman,
which is you know, good and and never happens, so
that's positive, but there were there were a lot of
issues with the source material that could have been improved
upon in the adaptation that just didn't happen, which is

(01:34:36):
disappointing because it is a beautiful movie with a lot
of great messages and anytime there's like a group of
girls who are like supporting each other and it's not antagonistic,
and even when it is, it's resolved, and like it
just felt it felt very wholesome and lovely and I
liked it. I like that and I like that there's

(01:34:59):
no reason the green, And honestly, just like I had
such an exhale and I was like, I'm in as
much as I love picking things to death, what really
if that there was no reason for the green? I
would have explained it nothing, you know, it would have
been terrible in the esplanation other than I just wanted
it that way. You would have been like, I don't
need any of this, like David and Dvy explaining things

(01:35:21):
after game of throws, like that's not why any of
the things happened. And if it is, I'm so disappointed
and just there. It's just what it is. And so
to all you wee blye bloggers out there fifteen years ago,
you were wrong. It's about fucking nothing. So I love
I mean, yeah, three and a half nips. I'll give
two to Becky, one to Amelia, and then I'll give

(01:35:42):
the last half to Alfonso's son, a little sweep set.
I will also go through and a half because it
just feels right. It's just it's appropriate. I'm just gonna
give all of mine to Becky, literally, all the love
and joy. I've never seen a person of color in
a historical drama before this. I remember that I was young,

(01:36:05):
and then when I did, it was so often slavery.
Amasad came out, and long after this saw that theaters horrifying,
really triggering experience. Don't take your eight year old to
see it, um, and she just so so full of
love and trying and just a desire to make a connection.
And girl I could identify many many A year later

(01:36:29):
in seven, when I started my first grade year, it
was horrible. Um, but Becky and depictions of Becky we're great.
And I also want to thank you guys because I
always get on my dad about watching old movies, but like,
doesn't this bother you? Look at these racist depictions, like
these are the movies of my childhood. How dare you
try to rip them away? And I'm like old man,
so stupid defending this movie like it's my life, right,

(01:36:53):
because no, it's fine, everything's cool, like closs over it
to the good stuff. Um. And so you know now
we're close, sir. Yeah, I understand his perspective. So yeah,
oh well, thank you so much for joining us. And
wherein Yes, go to Twitter. I live there at least

(01:37:14):
sixteen hours a day. You'll be able to contact me
on Twitter's at Joel Monique or um. If you're so inclined,
you could go to I G. I'm trying to Instagram
story more. I don't. It's not intuitive for me, but
that's Joel underscore. Bonique also visit me over at paste
am Pajaibo, where I do the weekly content, the movies
and the TV's and all the fun stuff. Awesome, amazing.

(01:37:35):
You can follow the Bechtel Cast on social media at
Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon
gets you to bonus episodes every month, including the entire
backlog of all of the episodes we've recorded already. It's
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(01:37:56):
bonuses and you like uh mp three files of me,
I mean Caitlin hanging out her house, that's the place
to go. Yes, it is, uh and you can find
that at patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast. You can
buy our merch feminist icon Alfred Molina merch you know,
and uh yeah, all of our our goodies are at

(01:38:18):
t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. Hey, we're
all princesses. Yes, interpret as you will.

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