Addams Family Values with Ali Nahdee

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdelcast. The questions asked if movies have.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and
best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
No no, no, no, no no no no no no
no no, no no, it's the Bechdel Cast. Oh you're
gonna keep Oh I will? It failed immediately?

Speaker 4 (00:29):
Okay, Well, what is what is the beel Cast introduction?
If not a shocking lack of commitment on both of
our parts. I think that that.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Is what a true all about.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
It's being like, okay, you get the concept, but we're
not gonna sing. Okay, the podcast is free to listen to. Yeah,
welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Shamie Loftus,
and I'm not gonna sing.

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Oh yeah. My name's Caitlin Dernte. I really wish I
had the foresight to like write out a Like's family
style Bechdel Cast theme song, but and it turns out
I'm not an improviser, so it didn't work out.

Speaker 4 (01:07):
Well, here we are, and we are doing this our
second Adams Family episode with I feel the superior Adams
Family movie. But before we get into it, what the
hell is this show? This show is a podcast where
we take a look at your favorite movies using an
intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping
off point for discussion. But Caitlin, what.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
The hell is that? Well, it is just a little
media metric that first appeared in our best friend Alison
Bechdel's comic dis to Watch out For. It has many versions.
The one that we use is do two characters of
a marginalized gender have names? And do they speak to
each other about something other than a man? And ideally

(01:51):
we like it when it's a narratively substantial, meaty conversation.
Not a problem for this.

Speaker 4 (02:01):
Yeah, let's get let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
We have an amazing returning guest, Yea, and I want
to get her in here. Indeed, she is the creator
of the Ali Naughty Test. She is a content creator
with a terrific YouTube channel. You remember her from episodes
on movies like Frozen, Two Avatar, Aquaman. It's Ali Nanny.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
I'm here. I rolled up because I heard you guys
need a nanny.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes I might kill you.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Guys and take your money.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
Yeah, I've got this like weird brother who's single, which
is a statement that's half true.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
I have a weird brother.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
He's daying someone.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
It's so good to be back. I was so excited
when you guys asked me back, especially for this video.

Speaker 4 (02:49):
Welcome back, yes, because we I mean, you have made
a video on this very movie.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yep, what was it? It was Sada the fat culture
critic on YouTube. She these prompts for YouTube videos, and
it's usually like for a positive emotion, like one scene
for joy, one scene for forgiveness, one scene for hope,
and this one was one scene for resistance because a

(03:16):
lot of people ask me about my opinion about this movie,
and I was like, what better way to just dive
in because it was my one scene for resistance.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
Because it's perfect, it's a great video. We're gonna link
it in the description as well. I mean, just congrassle
your channel.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
It fucking rocks, Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
I work so hard on it, and I'm not monetized
because as soon as I turn it into a job,
I'll hate.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
It, sure of course.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
So it's just I need an outlet for this sort
of thing, and it's something I've always wanted to do
and it's it's really great and I'm just very bad
at deadlines.

Speaker 4 (03:55):
So the but it doesn't matter if it's not your job.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
It's true, it's a hobby.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
That rocks.

Speaker 4 (04:04):
Well, thank you, thank you for coming back. Yeah, we
have so much to talk about today, but let's get
started in the way we always get started. What is
your personal history with this movie, which I guess we
haven't said the title Adam's Family Values in nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yes, and you're corrected as the superior movie. And I
don't know, maybe it's because I'm biased, because I explain
in my video for it that, you know, I grew
up in a biracial family. You know, my dad is
a Nishnabe and my mother's white, and me and my
sisters we grew up, you know, not on a reservation,

(04:41):
not on an unseated territory without like a big native
community like at all. So because my dad was assimilated,
because his mother and his anti were residential school survivors,
they didn't have a cultural connection either, you know, so

(05:02):
when they raised us, it was you know, we were
native and we understood that dad wasn't white, you know,
at least visibly, and they would show us like we
still wanted that connection, you know, to the culture and
didn't really know how to go about doing that since
we lived so far away, and a lot of stuff

(05:25):
that my parents would do was, oh, there's a movie
that has Indians in it. Let's show it to them,
and they'll think that's cool because it's you know, like
their dad, like us. You know. So sometimes it was
good and sometimes a lot of times it was not.
But you know, with problematic representation isn't a new thing

(05:46):
for natives, but this was one of them, and I
didn't realize until we get to that specific part why
my parents chose to show us this movie. And it's
been a favorite sense and I love the hell out
of it.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
Hell yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
It also helps that when I put my hair in braids,
especially if I try to go to like, you know,
rallies or pow wows and stuff, because I'm very pigment challenged.
I look more like Wednesday than I do like any
of my native relatives.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Like Okay, Jamie, what about you, what's your relationship with
this movie?

Speaker 4 (06:30):
I was a late comer to it. I think I
saw it when I was a kid, but I it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
I think my mom was just she's like the Adams Family,
no goths in this house, which is why I got
so into goth stuff because my mom said no goths. Anyways, Yeah,
so I got really into the Adam's family as like
a teen. I love this movie. It's my favorite of

(06:58):
I mean, there's only the two, but this is the
better one. I feel like this movie really is like
the best use of the Adams Family that I've ever seen,
in putting them in fish out of water situations to
criticize American culture, which is the point of them. And
I don't know. My niece watches that this is unrelated.
My niece really enjoys the like animated reboot, and they

(07:18):
just don't use any of the cool parts of the
Adams Family. It's a waste. I haven't seen Wednesday, can't
speak to it. But yes, I love the Adams Family.
I think that this movie is doing so much in
something that I feel like it's hard to find family
films doing now, which is really exkewering and criticizing American

(07:41):
culture and not sacrificing any funny to like, you know,
be super didactic, which is just you just don't see
it a lot. So it's I think one of my
favorite comedies. I think, I mean, I think. I also
think it's wild that any like has it happened and
other things where like Joan Cusack and Christine Baranski two

(08:07):
women I love so much, very confusing when they're in
the same movie. Their vibes are similar. Sure, yes, and
then I did, Caitlin. I didn't run this by you before,
but I feel like it's just time to say something
that it's been five years. It's been five whole years,
eighty four years. So another reason that this is an

(08:29):
especially interesting movie for us to cover on the show
is because we have previously interviewed the director of this
movie in one of the very few lost episodes of
the Buxtell Cast. You'll never hear it. We are Barry
Son and felt heads on the show. But he was
definitely not brief done what our show is about.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
Or he was and he did not pay attention.

Speaker 4 (08:56):
We're not sure. I mean, it's like he's busy. I
get it, pod has prep. It could be a lot
of work and uh, but anyways, it's just a fun
fact that something that happened five years ago, and we
were like, someday we'll say it.

Speaker 3 (09:10):
It happened. It did happen.

Speaker 4 (09:13):
We we covered Wild Wow West, and you'll never.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Know what happened in that conversation.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
You can imagine it, you can wonder, but we'll never tell.
But I I feel like it's okay, I don't know.
We talked to our point of contact and she was like, yeah,
tell everyone it happened.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Well, it happened, history, history happened.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
Well.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
Also, at the time, before the interview went the way
that it did, we had posted like a screen grab
of our zoom call on Twitter, I think, and then
people were like, wow, that's cool. And then we just
never released that episode and people are like, what wasn't
that supposed to be something that came out, and we're like, really, don't,
don't talk about it.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
I really know we were talking about.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Have you guys deleted your Twitter?

Speaker 3 (09:59):
No?

Speaker 4 (09:59):
No, it's sitting dormant. It's just like a fucking.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Graveyard and is gone. I was like, good for you,
but yeah, I know this happened. And he's in the
movie as a cameo. He plays He plays a character's father.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yes, and we are we are we are fans, we
are Barry Heads.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, but it was wild which character's.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Father Joel Joel's father a ka David Crumholtz his father.
Oh yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Like if it was the Sarah Miller's father. I was
going to be like, oh no.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
So Also, this was the first I don't I haven't
seen this movie in well, it's not even true. I
saw it a couple of years ago. They did a
double feature with Casper and Adam's Family. Value is great
double double. So I saw that a couple of years ago,
and that was the last time I saw this. But
this is the first time I registered that that's baby
David Crumbholts. Oh nokay, I just I didn't know that

(10:56):
Bernard was in this film.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
Bernard the Elf. Yeah, what can you do?

Speaker 4 (11:01):
Anyways, Yes, I love this movie and that episode exists. Yes,
that's all I have to say at this time.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
Thank you for sharing. I have a pretty limited history
with this movie. I probably saw both of the early
nineties Adam's families when I was a kid, but I
don't know something about my household. We were more of
a no goths. We know, it was more that we were.
We were a Tim Burton household.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Have ten anime betrayals right there.

Speaker 4 (11:35):
It's funny.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
There was a time.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
I won't vouch for the man now, but we Yeah,
for some reason, when it came to like nineties Gothy
type movies that were mainstream. I mean, my mom fucked up.
She should have we should have had these on BHS,
but we didn't, and I resent her to this day.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
We weren't allowed to have Tim Burton I there.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Anyway. So all this to say, I didn't really grow
up with these movies. I think I probably saw them
at some point, but I didn't really immerse myself in
them until we covered the first movie, which was what
like five six years ago at this point.

Speaker 4 (12:16):
Yeah, with the Iffy and Danny, I.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Think, yeah. And while prepping for that episode, I also
watched Adam's Family Values. And these movies are very funny.
I love the jokes in them. I wish I had
kind of gotten to them sooner. Also side note, there
is there is a third movie that I guess is
canonically part of the trilogy, although almost the entire cast

(12:41):
is different except for Oh the actor who plays Lurch.
But there's a movie called Adam's Family Reunion. Yes, from
nineteen ninety eight Tim Curry, Tim Curry and Darryl Hannah
as Gomez and Mortitia.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
Wow, I have seen that. I guess that's like, I
feel like it's its own thing. Wednesday, it changes, it's
a different iteration.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
I mean once all day. Once you know Angelica Houston
isn't there, Christopher.

Speaker 4 (13:07):
Lloyd or Flintstone's Viva Rock Vegas in that way? Right,
You're like, where what's Jane Krakowski doing here?

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yes, So anyway, I don't have much of a history
with these movies, but I do enjoy them very much,
and there's a lot to discuss today. Let's take a
quick break and we'll come back for the recap, and

(13:40):
we're bad. We're back.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
Hailey duff is in Adam's Family Reunion. Sorry, I'm looking
at this list like as Wednesday or no, as Gina Adams.
I'm assuming these are who I don't know. I'm assuming
she went to the reunion. Gina Adams Harve.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
The reunion right right right right? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (13:59):
This guy straight to video. That would be a good
Matreon theme, just like Curse Straight to Video.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Sequels. There's so many bad ones with an entirely different
cast I always think of like George of the Jungle.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
And Mortal Kombat Annihilation.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
Just some really gnarly stuff. A lot of actors in debt,
right Yeah. Anyways, Adams family values, which does not suffer
from this problem.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
Not at all. So we see the Adams family that
we know and love. We've got Fester screaming at the moon.
Wednesday and her brother, Pugsley and their granny are burying
a cat alive.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
What cats.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
Hid Your cats? Lurch is playing the organ Gomez and
thing our arm wrestling. Mortitia announces that she's going to
have a baby right now, so the family rushes to
the hospital and Mortitia gives birth. They bring the baby
home and it looks like a miniature Gomez with a

(15:08):
little mustache in the suit and everything. Wednesday and Pugsley
resent the new baby and keep trying to kill it,
but their plans are thwarted each time.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Their love language.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
Movie perfectly like encapsulates my dark humor that I've developed
over the years, because every single thing that happens in
it is so bad and hilarious, Like they're dropping the
baby and gor didn't hit with bowling.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Balls and it's comedy, it's hilarious, it's amazing. Yeah. So
Mortitia and Gomez are trying to be romantic because they're
still so horny for each other, but their hands are
full with three children. They try to hire a nanny.

(16:00):
Cynthia Nixon plays.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Like Maranda, what are you doing here?

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Marianda? Yeah, she's one of the people who is interviewed.
Another is Debbie Jelinski played by Joan Cusack, who they
eventually hire, and they introduce her to their baby, who
they've named Pubert. Hilarious, awesome, saying how did.

Speaker 4 (16:25):
They get away with it?

Speaker 3 (16:26):
We don't know, we don't know, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
And then did you know that David Hyde Pierce is
in the delivery rooms?

Speaker 3 (16:33):
He plays a doctor Blitz second.

Speaker 4 (16:35):
Yeah, a lot of good cameos in this too.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
So Debbie also meets the rest of the family, and
when she meets Fester, he's like hubba, hubba, who's that
at And then Debbie moves in that night, and then
she watches a news report about an unknown serial killer
who the media has dubbed the black Widow because she

(16:59):
seeks out rich and marries them and kills them on
their wedding night so she can collect their money.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
I don't remember that happening in the Avengers movies, right,
would have made things better.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
It would have been much more interesting.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
So that's why she showed up an Iron Man two.

Speaker 4 (17:18):
I do like that they take the trouble to show
like four different pictures of Joan Cusack and various wigs.
I think the disguises were pretty good. Like so, I mean,
while Wednesday's right to say that she was sloppy, I
still think she was doing She was running a pretty
good grift.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
It's not until she met the Adams family and she
was no match for them.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
No, if she just would have been so upfront, it
would have been like, oh, honey, you want to.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
That's awesome.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
She and Martitia really could.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Have bonded, I think joined a polycule man and then
even Odder exactly.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, because that's the whole thing that this you know,
Black Widow serial Killer is bi Jelenski, and she starts
to go through Fester's things and finds all of his assets.
There's stocks, there's bonds, there's deeds to houses, all that stuff,
and it looks like he will be her next target.
But Wednesday is on too Debbie. So Debbie gets rid

(18:19):
of Wednesday by lying and telling Mortitia and Gomez that
the kids really really want to go to summer camp.
So the family arrives at Camp Chippewa.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
Ah, yeah, it begins.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
We'll talk about it does not mean orphan, No, it
does not. They drop off Wednesday and Pugsley. At the camp,
the kids meet a spoiled rich girl named Amanda, as
well as the camp directors, Becky and Gary played by

(18:55):
Christine Branski and Peter McNichol, who I recognized from Ghostbusters two.
Oh okay, yes. They also meet another camper, Joel. This
is the David Crumholtz character, and he and Wednesday make
eyes at each other. Meanwhile, back at the Adams family home,

(19:18):
Debbie is there with Fester and she's working on getting
him to fall in love with her, and she is succeeding.
A double date is arranged Mortitia and Gomez and Fester
and Debbie. They go out to dinner. There's this whole
scene where Morticia and Gomez do like a tango dance number.

Speaker 4 (19:38):
That's a great number.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
It's great that inspired an entire generation of bisexuals. They
know it because it was the nineties, and.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
It was yeah, everyone in that scene is cooking. I
love that they're like getting off on making the other jealous,
Like it's just oh, it's so good, it's so good. Yeah,
and then cutting back to Uncle.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
Fester doing that. What does he do?

Speaker 1 (20:05):
He's like showing he's like sticking dreadsticks up.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Oh, yes, it's just just no, no, it's perfect hilarious.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
And then later that night, Fester and Debbie are alone
and she tells him that she's a virgin. Obviously she's lying,
but he very sincerely is like me too, and she
professes her like you know, love for him, aka she's

(20:37):
manipulating him, and they get engaged. Meanwhile, at camp, Wednesday
is having a terrible time among all of the rich
blonde children, especially that girl Amanda. The camp directors put
Wednesday and Pugsley in this like time out cabin or
it's called like army house hardy House. Little David Crumholtz

(21:03):
is sent there as well. He and Wednesday continued to
vibe with each other and the three of them try
to escape the camp because Wednesday has learned that her
uncle Fester is engaged and she wants to try to
put an end to it, but the campers and camp
directors catch them and stop them from leaving. They like

(21:25):
sing Kumbaya at them.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
They just can't stop appropriating. I can't, I can't, they can't.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Act of positivity is a weapon.

Speaker 3 (21:33):
And yeah, oh yeah, oh my god, absolutely so at
the house, Fester and Debbie have an engagement party slash
like joint bachelor slash bachelorette parties. Fester is still oblivious
that Debbie is conning him. Then they have their wedding.

(21:54):
The whole Adam's family is there, including the kids plus Joel.
He got invited to the wedding and they managed to
leave the camp. Then we cut to Fester and Debbie's
honeymoon in Hawaii, where she tries to kill him by
throwing a stereo in the bathtub while he's in it,

(22:15):
but just turns him on.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
He's like, this is so awesome.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
So now Debbie is pissed that he's still alive and
grossed out because now he wants to consummate their marriage
and have sex ever heard of it? And she's like, okay,
but after we make love, you can never see your
family again, and he's reluctant, but anyone else. Yeah, honestly

(22:48):
a pretty pretty cool move.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
He got tries so upset that he's alive. It's so mad,
and then it's like, oh my god, Christopher Lloyd's fucking face. See.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
I was surprised at like how in detail that seed
goes into, because I feel like with the kids movies,
you usually get like an implication, but they're just they're
just having a frank discussion about fucking.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
Well while he's inside her question mark.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
It's unclear. I watched it. I'm glad it's not clearer,
but the fact that it's a possibility is wild.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
I think the only reason that it could do that
was because Gomes and Morticia or clearly fucking like the
entire time through both movies, it's true. And the movie
even begins with Wednesday. You know that girl's like the
diamond under the cabbage patch turned into a baby and
Wednesday's like our sand sucks.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
That's hilarious joke anyway, So he Fester doesn't want to
cut ties with his family. He's very reluctant, but he
agrees because he's so freaking horny. Many such cases, the
leaps in logic that we all do because of horniness,
you know, yeah, Okay, So then they return from their honeymoon.

(24:11):
Debbie is still furious that Fester is alive, but she's
kind of accepted that he's going to be sticking around,
so she gives him a makeover with like a bowl cut.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
He seems to be into it.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
She is a dom, he is a sub. And then
they move into a mansion while the rest of the
family receives word that Fester can never see them again,
and they're like, what the fuck. So Morticia and Gomez
go to Debbie and Fester's new house to be like, Debbie,
U succubis, let us see Fester.

Speaker 4 (24:46):
And then the iconic but Debbie Pastels moment is so good.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Yeah, and I love that Mortitia respects the hell out
of it. Yeah, it's like you, you've put him under
some sexual seductive spell. I respect that.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
But Debbie, it's so and I love the like the
Angelica Houston lighting. She's just so movie star, her little
eye line light that just irrationally follows her throughout everything,
and I just love it.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
It's so good. So, yeah, they they confront Debbie, but
she refuses to let them see Fester, who is cowering
in the corner, too afraid of Debbie to defy her,
so the family goes to the police and tries to
report Debbie parentheses ACAB include Nathan Lane playing a cop.

Speaker 4 (25:47):
That was that was.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
That was a hard one. That's a hard one. But nonetheless,
because the police are useless, they do nothing to help
the family.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
Wow, that's a that's a shock, right, They never do that.
They're usually so competent.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
And oh yeah, meanwhile, the kids are back at the
summer camp and the camp directors are organizing a play
about the First Thanksgiving.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
And you know that they're obsessed with this racist story
because they're doing it in the summer for some reason. Ye,
Like yeah, fuck, And.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Like it makes even less sense because that's not even
the tribe. I mean, like, it's not gonna make sense
for car.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's not the tribe. Pocahontas was not at the First Thanksgiving.
Because Wednesday gets cast as Pocahontas. They start rehearsing the play.
It is horrendous for many reasons. Obviously we'll talk a
lot about this more, but Wednesday, Pugsley and Joel are like, Okay,
this sucks. We don't want to participate in your awful play.

(26:58):
So they are sent back to the Harmon House and
made to watch a bunch of like uplifting family friendly media,
Disney movies, Sound of Music, Brady Bunch Annie, all that
kind of stuff to fix their bad attitude. Meanwhile, Pubert
the baby seems to be sick or possessed because he

(27:20):
suddenly looks like a more traditional cute baby with like
rosy cheeks and blonde curls.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
He likes Doctor Seuss books, he wants the cat in
the Hat so good.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, Hubert looks like me when I was a baby,
because exactly what my hair used to look like?

Speaker 3 (27:40):
Oh wow, Okay, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
And then I guess I decolonize because now it's uh
this color and gray.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
Yeah. Anyway, so they think Pubert is possessed maybe because
of this like troubled family life ordeal that they're going through.
Fester abandoning them, and so they work on trying to
fix this. Cut back to the camp, it is time
for the Thanksgiving play. Obviously, it's very whitewashed revisionist history

(28:10):
version of the Thanksgiving narrative. So Wednesday goes off script
gives a monologue about colonialism, stolen land modern day injustices
that native people face, and then she and the other
native characters in the play literally burn the set of

(28:32):
the play and tie up that snobby rich girl Amanda,
who had been cast as like the lead pilgrim woman.
The whole thing is chaos. It's very cathartic, so good,
and then Wednesday and Pugsley escape. After Wednesday and Joel
share a heartfelt goodbye. Back at Fester and Debbie's house,

(28:58):
she wraps up a b as a birthday present for Fester,
once again trying to kill him, but he's like, oh
my god, is this a bomb? Thank you so much.
But she leaves the house and goes to a bar
where Tony Shaloub is singing Macho Man.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
As you do.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
Just then you think it couldn't get any better. There's
Tony Shaloub at a bar singing Macho Man.

Speaker 3 (29:24):
And then I guess the idea is like Debbie leaves
so that the house can explode and then she'll come
back to be like, oh no, my poor husband. But
Fester survives the explosion, so Debbie pulls a gun on
him and admits that she doesn't love him, that she
wants to kill him, and take his money. But before

(29:45):
she can do any of that, Thing the Adams family
disembodied hand runs Debbie over with a car and rescues
Fester and they drive off.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
Upon this most recent viewing, there's a piece of dialogue
earlier on in the movie where Fester was talking about
how he's been jealous of Gomez and Mortitia's relationship, and
Gomez says something like, well, you have Thing, And I
was like, has Thing.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Been jerking off Fester this whole time?

Speaker 1 (30:20):
And then Thing comes and saves him from the woman
who stole him away from him.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
So, look, everything in this family is fluid, and don't
worry about it. What happens in Adam's manner stays in
Adam's manner. I also love cousin it and his wife.
That was a really fun, touchy but he's got a

(30:46):
he's got a normy wife and they seem very happy.

Speaker 3 (30:48):
And then then they have a baby, and what a
cute kid.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
I gotta tell you guys something. Yeah, it was me.
I was cousin it.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
A celeb unkenny. I'm Kenny resemblance of Okay. So back
at the Adams family home, Mortitia is trying to care
for this new version of her baby, and Gomez is
like bedridden and dying. I'm not really sure what's going

(31:21):
on there no extra But then Fester returns home, as
do the children, so the family reunites. But oh no,
Debbie shows up with a rifle and puts the whole
family in a bunch of electric chairs, shows them a
slide show of all the people she has murdered, her
past husbands and her parents when she was ten years

(31:44):
old because they gave her Malibu Barbie instead of Ballerina Barbie.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Incredible, incredible because then her parents might have taken it
too far. But who else does Debbie kill? She kills
a doctor because he's snipped dinner because the pope had
a cold, not a girl. And she kills a senator
and there's nothing wrong with that.

Speaker 4 (32:03):
Yeah, yeah, some of some of Debbie's crimes.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
You're like, I support it.

Speaker 4 (32:08):
Yeah, wait, you know whatever, it's valid.

Speaker 5 (32:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
So, meanwhile, the only family member who Debbie didn't tie
up is baby Pubert. He's on the loose, looking like
a mini Gomez again, you know, zipping around the house
and setting in motion a final destination style Rube Goldberg
thing that electrocutes Debbie and turns her to dust. We

(32:36):
cut to sometime later, the Adams family is safe and
together and back to their normal cousin It and It's wife,
Margaret and their baby come over for baby Pubert's first
birthday party and bring along their nanny, Dementia, who seems

(33:00):
like a very good match for Fester because they look identical.
And Joel also comes to see Wednesday, and the movie
ends with Joel being like, oh, Wednesday, I hope we
can get married one day, and she's like, ooh, gross,
cool it. And then she's like, I'd rather be like

(33:23):
Debbie and kill my husband, except she was sloppy and
I would get away with it. And then she plays
a little graveyard prank on Joel the end. Oh, and
then the credit song is I forget when episode We
were just talking about this on Jamie, but when you
were like, Oh, I miss the days when the credit

(33:44):
song was a rap recap.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
Oh my god, this is such a good one. This
one it like it makes no sense and therefore it's perfect. Yeah,
I love it. What did they call it a fish?
It has such a funny title.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Oh, I don't even know.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah, the last movie I saw they did that recently
was PG Psycho gore Man, where they had like some
nineties not nineties, like eighties white rapper. I guess summarize
the video.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
Okay, it's called Adam's Family.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Woomp. That's okay. Oh yeah, they're sort of like that.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Woomp. There.

Speaker 4 (34:25):
Yeah, it's it couldn't be more nineteen ninety three if
it wanted to be. It's Adams Family.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
Woomp.

Speaker 4 (34:32):
You are seeing you are valued?

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Yes, okay, so let's take a quick break and we'll
come back to discuss.

Speaker 4 (34:48):
And we're back, Ali, We're going to kick it to you.
Where would you like to start?

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Oh? Okay, Well, first of all, perfect casting all around.
Everybody in this movie is perfectly cast. I would love, like,
I know you haven't seen Wednesday, and I've only seen
like a couple episodes on the Netflix. The Netflix Wednesday. Yeah,
but Sabrina Carpenter had Jenna Ortega and her music video

(35:14):
for Taste, and it was a very death becomes Her,
very morbid, but very funny and very toxic lesbian. You know,
it's great, And Sabrina Carpenter could totally be Debbie on Wednesday,
and I just think that would make things perfect.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
That would rock young Debbie.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
They do it right this time, or it was like
Debbie's niece or something like right sure, Sabrina Jelenski.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
Oh, I'm waiting.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
That would be perfect.

Speaker 3 (35:47):
And then.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Wow, where else do I begin? Like I'm going through
my moods right now? What else?

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Here's seventy seventy places to stay?

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (35:56):
Someone said on Tumblr or something about how beheading all
the billionaires would include Gomes Adams because he's got all
that money, and I was like, you know, he would
just be so honored.

Speaker 4 (36:08):
Yeah, I say, I think he'd be like, you know what,
you got me, I deserve it.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
You got me guys guillotine me.

Speaker 1 (36:14):
So Pupert has a little baby guilloty on top of
his birthday cake and I want one.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
Amazing.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
I love usually a movie where the premise is and
now there's a baby, it's so hit or miss premise wise,
but like Pupert Ooh, I love that baby. He's he's
a great addition. He just makes sense. He's just as evil.

Speaker 3 (36:37):
I love his little mustache.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
And the story doesn't get lost in like I don't know,
like what now there's a baby, which I just like.
It is a very tired plot point like, yeah, there's
a baby, the kids are trying to kill.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Him, classic narrative.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
Yeah, and he's kind of loving it.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Yeah, right, and all that. Wednesday plays with a gea
with the baby dressed up as Marie Antoinette, and I
was children paying attention to comrade Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (37:08):
Fun fact, Hubert the baby is played by twin babies,
as like children and babies often are in movies because
it's like they need a break, We'll swap out this
one for the other one. Yeah, but the babies are
twin girls named Kristen and Caitlyn Hooper. But Caitlyn spelled

(37:30):
the wrong way, so I can't forgive that.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
So the baby with the little mustaches, that's adorable.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Something that stood out to me. I mean, this movie
is doing so much cultural commentary. Obviously we're going to
spend a lot of time on the Thanksgiving play, but
I just wanted to shout out a few other things
that popped out that I had to like put on
nineteen ninety three goggles to understand. There's a few contemporary references.
There's obviously the Michael Jackson reference, which I had to do.

(38:03):
I mean, like I had a feeling why it was included,
but I was like, well, like, where was that cultural
discourse at at the time, And it ended up being
actually quite personal to the movie, specifically because Michael Jackson
was originally going to appear in this movie. Yeah I
read that, and so yes, I'm pulling from scholarly journal

(38:26):
Wikipedia here. He was supposed to have a song in
the movie called family Thing. The song is rumored to
have been removed due to the child's sexual abuse allegations
against Jackson, but the truth is it was a contractual difference,
so we don't know if they would have included it.
If they could have, it seems like they probably wouldn't
have because of the way he's referenced that Yeah, he's

(38:48):
referenced like visually and Joel is terrified of him, which
I'm sure got a big laugh in nineteen ninety three.
I personally don't like when they use his accurance to
like seem like that's the source of horror when it's
the act. Maybe just don't reference him at all. It
is my fat And then I felt the same way

(39:10):
about the Amy Fisher reference, which is also so nineties
in a way that like in a movie that generally
is pushing back on popular narratives. I don't know. Listen
to the year wrang About episode about Amy Fisher. It's
like a classic mischaracterization of a teenager who is being groomed.

(39:33):
So there was that. I also didn't know that the
title is a reference to a dan Quail speech question
mark yeah, okay, also pulling from scholarly journal Wikipedia here.
Of course, the family values in the film's title is
a tongue in cheek reference by the writer to a
nineteen ninety two speech called Reflections on Urban America made

(39:56):
by then Vice presidential candidate Dan Quayle. In the speech,
Quail controversially blamed the nineteen ninety two Los Angeles riots
on a breakdown of quote unquote family values, which is,
you know, we don't need to tell you that's unbelievably racist.
But I just didn't realize that the title was pulling
from something. Yeah, both like very recent and very specific,

(40:20):
and that is a culture reference that I'm like, yeah,
that's a fun fuck you uh to Dan Quayle.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Similarly, I would say that there are a couple jokes
in the movie that just feel quite reductive. Most of
the jokes in the movie are hilarious, and great, and
I have a list of my favorites, but there's for.

Speaker 4 (40:39):
Nineteen ninety three is an accomplishment truly that more of
it agees well than doesn't.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, definitely. There's a joke where like that implies that
Gomez infest jerk off to a pin up style nude
image of their mom and we're like, okay, insects and
miss art. Dang, yeah that's there. There's an there's a

(41:05):
joke that's judgy toward anyone who has had cosmetic surgery
that Wednesday makes the where it's like, oh, all the
girls woke up with their original noses and they're like, so,
she's like shamy of that. Christopher Lloyd is in a
fat suit to play Fester. So you know, there are

(41:28):
some things that don't age very well.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
But as a person with an overbite, let me tell
you when oh, yeah that one your bathing suit, is
that your overboy brutal?

Speaker 4 (41:44):
Yeah, I guess with the with the joke about nose jobs,
I felt like that was, Yeah, that's cruel of Wednesday,
But I felt that they were trying to get at
the waspiness of the girl she was talking to. It
could have been a different joke.

Speaker 3 (41:59):
That's thing, like she could have commented on her whatever
class privilege or something, didn't need to make a dig
at anyone's appearance. But she does that a couple of times.

Speaker 4 (42:09):
She also tries to kill a baby. I mean problematic, problematically, yeah,
and then I mean, yeah, the big, the big discussion
to have here is the I mean the summer camp
it itself and then the specific play that they put on.

Speaker 3 (42:28):
But yeah, so overall, it's I think a pretty effective
satire of like American summer camp culture, where it's this
camp for like privileged children who you know are just
children with rich parents. Almost every child there is white.

(42:51):
Almost all of them are blonde. Like you see shot
like wide shots of like forty kids, and they're all
just these blonde children. There's commentary on class and white
supremacy and how non native people and especially white people,
appropriate indigenous cultures, treat Native people as a monolith, act

(43:15):
as though Native people don't exist anymore, that they're a
thing of the.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Past, completely make up the name, like say that the
name of it, yes, scribe is because it's not orphan.
What happened was is that Chippewa is what the colonizers
heard when they said, oh, jibwa, and they thought, because
how you spell it? And I'm sure how you say it?
Before there was like a written language for these words.

(43:41):
They were like, oh, chippewa instead of ojibwa or ojibwa.
That's what it is. It doesn't mean orphan. I forget
what it means. It means something. It means something very weird,
like if I recall correctly, but I forgot what it was.
I can look it up somewhere.

Speaker 4 (43:59):
But racist brain cell to be shared among these colonizers.
It's just like sough. I was curious. I guess I
was curious if either of you. I hadn't thought about
this in a long time, but I was talking about
this movie with my brother, and we grew up in Massachusetts,
where misrepresentation of Native history, I feel like, is particularly egregious,

(44:24):
and we were talking about it wasn't a camp quite
like this, but it's one of the or at least
at the time in the late nineties early two thousands,
was a default field trip that you would take in
public schools to a place called Camp Squanto in Massachusetts.
And so I did a little bit of research into it,
because again, this seems like, it's a very like the

(44:47):
camp that the Atoms are going to is a rich
kid camp. This is a publicly owned camp that I
think mostly boy Scouts use, but it has this very
racist history that it doesn't seem like unlike you know,
at very least there has been push back on the
way Plymouth Plantation, another field trip I had to go on,

(45:09):
is portrayed.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
There hasn't really been any.

Speaker 4 (45:11):
Motion on camps like this, but I just wanted to
talk about it a little bit because I do like
once my brother brought it up, I was like, oh,
I clearly remember going to Camp Squanto as a kid,
which is you know, Squanto is yet another like misrepresented name.
I looked into how the website portrays and I want

(45:34):
to make sure I'm saying his actual name correctly. It's
to Squantum, and he's He's a popular, falsely portrayed cultural
figure in Massachusetts.

Speaker 3 (45:45):
I've learned about him all the time.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
Growing up, and the narrative that is attributed to him
is that he was an indigenous person who helped the
pilgrims and who like you know, helped them understand how
the land worked. And he was presented as like helpful
to colonizers and that that was a good thing. And

(46:07):
that's why they named this weird camp after him, the Camp,
And it seems like a lot of similar camps like
it in New England. There's also a Camp Squanto in
New Hampshire that's even worse because it's an explicitly Christian camp,
which makes is what do you even say this that

(46:31):
I was like, I was like, I don't want to
bring these, but yeah, it's Camp Squanto invites campers to
experience the love of Christ outside of four walls in
a unique transforming environment. This is what wasn't the place
I went. It was a federally owned piece of land,
but nonetheless it is a piece of land that is
dedicated to teaching kids, most of whom are not native,

(46:53):
this false version of to Squantum. It opened in July
nineteen twenty five, so it wasn't even originally integrated. Obviously
by the time I went, it was. But it was
a camp for white kids all over Massachusetts to learn
a false version of history. And to this day it
is very popular. It is still where boy Scouts will

(47:17):
go and camp year round. And I guess I just
I don't know I hadn't really connected that. Even though
it's not the exact same kind of camp, it has
a similar mission, which is just mis education and misrepresentation
of history to serve the American project. So that's unfortunately,

(47:41):
Camp Squanto in this.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
Movie seems very aware of all these types of camps
that are all over Turtle Island and is satirizing them
by way of this play that goes a little differently
than the camp directors are expecting. So yeah, Ali, we're

(48:03):
curious on your take on this.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Well, Okay, first of all, I remember that ojiboy, the
word is like kind of in reference to this is
so silly, Like puckered up is more or less because
the way we wear they would wear our moccasins is like,
I don't know, the moccasins have like puckered scenes or

(48:27):
something like that. So it's like, oh, puckered up or something.
So that's kind of what ojibwe means. But obviously Ani
schnabe would be more correct, you know. Anyways, it doesn't
mean orphan, it means puckered up. God, I wish it
didn't sound so dirty the Thanksgiving scene. So I, like

(48:49):
I said, I did a video about this on YouTube.
And the thing that I really loved the most about
this scene was, you know, first of all, came out
like I don't know, a year or so before Disney's
Pocahontas came out, so before you know, like obviously, the
story of Pocahontas has been told for you know, since

(49:13):
the sixteen hundreds. People have like a vague, very whitewashed
understanding of that story anyways, so it's familiar, and then
Disney just made it worse. But it's just so interesting
that this movie is so honest about the lie of
not just not just Pocahontas. You know, they don't really

(49:37):
dive into that story. It's just, oh, this is a
play about Indians, and Pocahontas is an Indian, so let's
just you know, throw her in there to make what
stay uncomfortable. But just how honest it is about the
lie of thanksgiving, and not only the lie of Thanksgiving
that we tell our you know, the nation to children,

(50:01):
but how the other parents in the audience very clearly
are racist against Native people. And that's something that really
stood out to me when I was little, you know,
I saw this movie probably when I was like four.
I want to say, three or four. And I understood,
you know, at a very young age, just from like

(50:21):
what my parents taught me, and then later when I
would like go to school and stuff and interact with
people who had never seen a Native person, like until
my dad. My dad was probably the first, if not
the only Native person that a lot of the white
kids in my schools ever saw, you know, so probably

(50:42):
one of the very very few that the teachers had
to like interact with. Also. So it's like I understood
at a very young age that there are adults and
parents and teachers that are lying about what happened to
the Native Americans, not just at Thanksgiving or even with pokehonnas,

(51:04):
but throughout history. I realized that teachers will lie about this,
like they'll even probably even know the story and still
lie about it just because you know, it's a prettier version,
it's a more flattering version.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
It's more quote unquote appropriate for children, and it's who's children.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
I've I got into an argument about this with one
of my mom's co workers years ago, who teaches at
an elementary school, and it was like this looping thing
of I was like, well, but you know that's not true.
And you know, she was like, well, but that's how
are you supposed to explain that to children? I was like,

(51:45):
figure it out.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
I don't know, it's not true your job as an educator.

Speaker 4 (51:49):
But it was this idea of like, well, it's a
tradition to tell this lie, and like she really felt that,
and it's it's I think that there are a lot
of people out there who still really don't want to
face their own discomfort of having to explain this.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
No, not at all. But yeah, it's just like how
the movie really just called that out, especially like in
the early nineties, Like people have difficulty calling it out now,
let alone, you know, back when I was three years old,
so Wednesday not giving them an inch. It's like I
like to think that she just sat in that cabin

(52:27):
and watched all those movies and just was like, oh,
I'm plotting how to get back at all of you
just orchestrated all of this. I will say though, that
the scene, as amazing as it is, it's still pretty problematic.
Y like context matters, but racial stereotypes are still racial stereotypes.

(52:49):
If you look at the Native the kids that are
dressed up like natives, A lot of them have really
darkened skin. I point that out in the video. I
was like, Wow, they really just like dark in this
kid's skin for the play. And it's racist. I mean,
the whole play is racist.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
But right, it's tricky because yeah, the like, of course,
these racist camp directors would put these children in brown face.
They would like cast and it's not even predominantly white people.
Because another thing with that is that the campers who
are cast to play native characters are like the quote

(53:30):
unquote outcasts in the camp. Like there's a disabled child
who's Jewish, there's a kid who is fat, there's an
Asian kid, there's a Latina kid, there's a black kid,
a nerdy kid, like all the quote unquote outcasts who
are not these like blonde children.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
Like descendants are pilgrims.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Yeah, right, and that's that is like a commentary of like,
of course, these horrible camp directors would put children who
who have been othered by society, you know, cast them
in the role as the native characters in the play.
But the movie also others those children and again it's like, yes,

(54:11):
of course, these horrible camp directors would put those children
in brown face.

Speaker 4 (54:17):
But like the viv isn't doing a ton to push
push back to be like, let's get to know these kids.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Yeah, yeah, we get more time with how terrible the
white kids are than we are with you know, how
cool these kids are. Actually, like Wednesday should have been
with them more.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
Yeah, yeah, why doesn't she befriend like Jamal and Consuela
and the other children who she has been outcast with,
right like and find community with them anyway.

Speaker 4 (54:45):
So it's not really her thing, Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
That is true. That's true.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
But even Pugsly, I mean Pugsly, who I do kind
of like that. It's cannon to the Adams family universe,
that Pugsy. You know, we can kind of take or
leave him. Yeah, you know, he's in a couple of scenes,
but but he's not putting butts in seats. You know,
he seems like a sweet kid. I like his his
performance as the turkey was very funny me. I mean,

(55:12):
even down to the like lyrics that they're writing. I
mean it is like it is really really sharp commentary
writing display from this like horrendous couple's perspective.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Yeah, there are a lot of Native people who like
the scene, and there's a lot of Native people who don't,
and that's I think that's valid. Like I would never
argue with a Native person about not liking this scene because,
you know, like I said, it's you still have kids
in brown face and culturally appropriating costumes. The dialogue is

(55:50):
very racist too, you know, like it's you know, like
racial stereotypes are stereotypes and they're harmful, so you know,
like ironic racism can still racism. That being said, if
I have to choose between two false accounts of the
Pocahonta story, I'm going with this one because it was
very very cathartic for me, you know, at that time

(56:15):
in my life, and still kind of I mean, Donald
Trump is using Pocahontas as a slur to this day,
and with recent hate crimes committed against Indigenous actors like
Jonathan Joss, I would see that. Yeah, it still holds
up in some places, even if it doesn't in others, right,

(56:38):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
This is one of the few pieces of mainstream Hollywood
media from this era that even acknowledged European settler colonialism
and stolen land and modern Native people living in poverty
on reservations as a result of colonialism and displacement and

(56:59):
so like, I'll give the movie that, but like you said,
there are things that ways in which the movie doesn't
handle this perfectly. For example, I mean, the whole thing
still centers whiteness. There are no Native characters present on
screen to offer their perspectives or experiences. I feel like
there are things that the play gets wrong that the

(57:23):
movie could have easily acknowledged if it's something that like
Wednesday includes in her monologue, or again, if the movie
included one or more Native characters who could set the
record straight.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
But again, one of the many things that I like,
something that would have fit pretty seamlessly into Wednesday's monologue
is acknowledging how racist their costuming is. Like that would
have been at least a step toward not seeming as
if the movie is just endorsing like any facet of that.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
But that doesn't.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
I mean, it's I feel like it's almost kind of
like leaned into versus resisted, which isn't true of a
lot of elements in that speech.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
Right, Yeah, she could have acknowledged the costuming, the brown face,
the fact that Pocahontas was not a quote unquote Chippewa maiden,
as she says in her dialogue.

Speaker 4 (58:23):
Yeah, as you say in your video, very funny and repeatedly, Ali,
she's nine.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
She is nine, Yes, yeah, she's a small child. Pocahontas
was not involved in the first Thanksgiving, neither was the
Ojibwe nation. It's just all these like again, the movie
is commenting on how these racist white camp directors have
created this and are perpetuating this very false version of

(58:51):
the narrative. But for the people in the nineties watching this,
and even people today watching this, many of them don't
know any better. They don't know that the quote unquote
facts presented by this play are completely incorrect, and the
movie doesn't say, hey, all these details that you see

(59:12):
here in the play are wrong. Again, it would have
been easy for Wednesday to be like and by the way,
this this and this, or it would have been easy
for a native character to be written into the movie
to say here's the actual thing. But the movie again
just glosses all over that. But but it is very
cathartic to watch this set burned down and for Sarah Miller,

(59:35):
the pilgrim girl, to be tied up and burned at
the stake question mark.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
So I think something that like in the hands of
a responsible writer. Something that could have helped the scene
would be if there was an actual Native person at
the camp. Obviously you walk on thin ice with that one,
like isn't a person attending the camp, And if it's

(01:00:03):
a rich like city Indian, you know, or you run
the risk of like you know, stereotypes anyways, but how
they treat a rich Indian is still very racist, you know,
when you're surrounded by rich white children or like maybe
there's a camp director or something like that that's like, oh,

(01:00:25):
we're gonna teach you, you know, take you on a
trail or take you horseback riding, and the kids are like,
you know, because the other thing is, you know, you
don't really want an excuse, like you don't want a
Native person there specifically so people can be racist to them, right,
But like if someone was there, like I don't know,

(01:00:45):
the image in my head when I imagine how the scene
probably could have been a little bit better, would be
like a Native person watching this all unfold and just
like nodding and smiling and just watching it like, oh, okay,
you know about it all. I don't remember this version
of the Thanksgiving story, but it's a lot better than

(01:01:06):
the ones they've been telling for the past like three
hundred years.

Speaker 4 (01:01:13):
The other thing that I know we've like touched on it,
but again, one of the things that I don't think
I would have seen in other movies is the acknowledgment
that Native people still exist. Like, I think that was
something that I was I feel like, I mean, I
didn't grow up around any Native kids. I grew up
in a very diversity, but we didn't have a large

(01:01:36):
Native population at all. And I feel like, even if
it wasn't explicitly said to me that you're sort of
taught that Native people don't exist anymore. And so that Wednesday,
even in like it could have been a more detailed
line of dialogue, but acknowledged that of course Native people
still exist and they're extremely oppressed to this day, Like

(01:01:59):
is really impactful for it, you know, kids in the
audience who just have not been taught that whatsoever. Yeah.
I had a long talk with my brother about this
because I was like, we didn't like, I just to
verify how miseducated we really were. And yeah, I mean
it's just again it's like a couple lines of dialogue,
but it's I'm very glad it's there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
One of my nieces. And this was back I want
to say, like two thousand. Let's see, I graduated high
school in two thousand and eight, so it must have
been two thousand and five era, I want to say.
But the kids in her classroom, so she was probably
like in sixth or seventh grade. The kids in her

(01:02:44):
classroom didn't think Native people were real. My god, They're like,
why are we learning about this? This didn't even happen.
I was like, what are you talking about? They're like,
Indians aren't real. And I'm like, excuse.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
Me, Hi, nice to meet you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Like what the fuck is going on at our public schools?
It's like, yeah, oh my gosh. And it's only gotten
gotten somewhat better and gotten somewhat worse because just recently,
actually I was helping my nephew with his homework and uh,
Sitting Bull was addressed Chief Sitting Bull, and they talked
a little bit about the battle a little big horn,

(01:03:22):
just what it was, and you know that Sitting Bull
was there. Then they followed it up like the next
page was about Golden Mirror. I think it's how you
say it. Who was the fourth prime Minister of Israel
oh and asked how was Goldenmeir and Sitting Bull alike?
And I was like, excuse me, oh my god. Yeah,

(01:03:45):
I was like, first of all, we never even learned
about Israel like at all through my K through twelve education,
like saying, none of it, not at all. I don't
even think we learned about Sitting Bull in my K
through twelve. You know, I think I learned about that
like on my own, just because of who my family is.
And it's like, so the one time you're bringing up

(01:04:07):
Israel and Sitting Bull is to compare those two. And
I wrote a very very angry email to my nephew's principle,
So yeah, it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
Shouldn't fault you. But I'm oh glad that people are
keeping their eyes piled for it, because that's that's absurd.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
Like it goes without saying that Israel is the pilgrims,
is the colonizers decimating an entire indigenous population.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
And I was very much like, listen, if this woman
was anything like Sitting Bull, the United States would not
be backing Israel, just so you.

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Know, like, yeah, they are the colonizers, it's their whole
fucking thing. I mean it is it yeah again, And
it's like it's tricky because I think we've had this
conversation on the show before. It's it is like one
movie is not going to be able to make up
for years of miseducation, but it can help. And this

(01:05:11):
is a scene that I think is an example of that. Yeah,
I have for I have a whole section. I need to,
I think, process this whole Camp Squanta thing because I'm
still thinking so much about that, Like I double checked
current stuff hanging at the camp just to see him,
Like has the messaging changed at all? It hasn't, and

(01:05:34):
you know it instead of being presented as oh, the
translator for the pilgrims in Plymouth, where the truth, of
course is far more complicated and horrific, is that he
was overseas and returned to North America and his entire
village was gone and it'd been replaced with Plymouth Plantation.

(01:05:56):
And that is certainly not acknowledged within the walls of
Campsquanto because that doesn't feel good to hear. And I
feel like that is a lot of what is satirized
in this Christine Baranski and other guy Gary Couple here
is like they are in a way that like I
think is like written pretty well of like they are

(01:06:17):
so determined to appropriate the hell and misrepresent the hell
out of any aspect of Native culture that they can
accept the parts that don't feel good to hear. And
that is there's that great line that I think they
kind of split about privilege. What is it privileged young

(01:06:38):
adults and we're all here to learn, to grow and
to just have plain fun because that's what being privileged
is all about. And like doing that in the context
of misrepresenting and stealing Native culture for their own purposes
unfortunately completely tracks. And I do appreciate that the movie,
for its faults, does seem to know that. I also like,

(01:07:00):
did they know that Pocahontas was in production when this
was made? Because they have they have it out for
Disney in this one.

Speaker 5 (01:07:08):
It's very satisfying, maybe because I remember, I guess around
that time, like because Pocahontas and The Lion King were
both being animated at the.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Same time, and Disney wanted that Oscar Gold and thought that, oh,
we'll get it with Pocahontas this time and make it
edgy an adult, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
Make her sexy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
The gross, so gross nine nine, she was nine.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
I did.

Speaker 4 (01:07:40):
I did. Like the the other aspect of the like
the camp being that if you disagree with them, they
will try to basically clockwork orange you by making you
watch The Little Mermaid a trillion times, and that Wednesday,
Wednesday is stronger.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
Yeah, like you said, Ellie, she's you can imagine, she's
just like sitting there as like Ariels singing part of
this world or whatever, just like plotting. Like yes, I
will pretend to agree to be in the play so
that I can, you know, derail the play and give
this monologue. I read a couple pieces by Native writers,

(01:08:22):
one by Sasha la Point in huff Post in twenty
twenty entitled as an Indigenous woman, I always hate Thanksgiving
This year, I'm terrified of it in reference to people
gathering a few months after COVID broke out, and then
the other piece I read is by author Alyssa Washuota

(01:08:44):
in twenty seventeen in a publication called Electric Lit, entitled Wednesday,
Adams is just another Settler. In both pieces, the writers
discuss their relationship to Thanksgiving and their relationship to this
scene in Adam's family values, how they celebrated and or

(01:09:05):
connected to the scene in their youth, but both say
that like it's not enough. Though of course, white people
like Wednesday Adams are still sellers on stolen Land. Liberation
isn't going to happen via sharing this clip from the
movie on social media on Thanksgiving, solidarity and allyship from
white people has to be a lot more meaningful and impactful,

(01:09:29):
and both pieces are definitely worth reading. We'll provide the
links to those.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
But that makes me happy to hear though I know
that you know, both of those were released, you know,
a couple of years ago, but especially how relevant it is,
Like again, going back to Jonathan Joss, it's you know,
his husband has been very vocal saying, you know, like
please keep putting pressure on the fact that this was

(01:09:56):
a hate crime against gay indigenous man, you know, put
pressure on the police. And surprisingly every new piece of
information about Jonathan Joss is worse than the last, and
it's been very traumatizing, like just this past week, you
know alone. But I really appreciate how much this man

(01:10:22):
was loved by so many people, because it sounds like
the police, the San Antonio Police Department was severely underestimated
how much people would have cared about this, like oh
it's another gay guy. Oh it's another dead Indian and
everyone's like, oh no, actually absolutely not. We're not just

(01:10:43):
gonna gloss over this murder that happened, you know, And
again like that's another example of using your solidarity, not
just sharing, you know, a very cathartic, awesome clip from
your favorite movie, but being like this is their phone number,
this is who you can call, this is you know,
post on social media, send money to the GoFundMe. I

(01:11:07):
heard that the husband doesn't want any more GoFundMe donations,
but you know, using your platform, which I hope that
the Parks and Rec and King of the Hill people
will step up and put a little bit more pressure
on it with their platforms. But we'll see, because I
saw how they treated them at that panel, so hopefully

(01:11:27):
Park Rec does better.

Speaker 4 (01:11:29):
I've been so disappointed to see how I mean, not
that we expect anything from Chris Pratt, but Chris Pratt,
I think, is the only person who is like acknowledged
it in a public way, in a half assed, useless way,
and all of the acknowledgments that he isn't here don't
acknowledge the fact that he was murdered. It's just very
like I read I was reading through just public statements

(01:11:52):
made for the most part, it's like you would think
he died in his sleep, you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
Know, like you just it's disgusting.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
Especially I'm like Amy Poehlard couldn't have a huger platform, why,
you know.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
I hope she steps up. I hope they all do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
So if you love this scene and Adam's family values,
do something awesome this year for Pride and step up
for Jonathan Jass. So yeah, anyways.

Speaker 3 (01:12:18):
I mean, honestly, I don't have that much else to
talk about with this movie, especially stuff that we didn't
also cover on our first episode. Yes, about the first movie,
Corny Parents Rock.

Speaker 4 (01:12:30):
You know, we talked you could go back to our
first episode to talk about the ways that the Added
Family subverts all of these you know, Hollywood tropes in
this really delightful way. I did want to talk a
little bit about Debbie, because this is our first rodio
with Debbie and unfortunately our last. I would love to
see word Debbie. I think she's a pretty cool, like

(01:12:51):
satirical character as well, where she is this like extremely entitled,
you know, wasp by murderer. It's an interesting idea for
a character. Yeah, and she's just she's killing guys. She's
just she's just walking around killing killing rich guys, and.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
She's manipulating them, she's doming them, she's making them get makeovers,
stealing from them, murdering them. It's honestly iconic.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
I like that she's very feminine and very pretty and
where's you know, like white Sellstels, but is also very
dark and very like unhinged and very angry. It's a
great character. It's like girl you and more should have
just hooked up and Orkard Gomez lovingly because he would

(01:13:44):
have loved it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:45):
And yes, the thing could be there, you know whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:13:48):
I like that they don't try to like I don't know, well,
they do justify her actions quote unquote where they give
her like villain origin story, but it's so silly. It's
the ballet bou barbie thing where Yeah, I think a
lot of times we get I mean I think I
complain about this all the time, and especially more recent
Disney movies, where the villainous behavior is contextualized through like

(01:14:10):
you know, something that almost feels like it's excusing the behavior.

Speaker 3 (01:14:14):
Itself.

Speaker 4 (01:14:14):
They're like, well, yeah, as tough childhood. So that's why
he killed all those people, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
And that's why they deserve a redemption.

Speaker 4 (01:14:23):
Right, right, And Debbie Jelinsky couldn't get less of a
redemption arc if she tried. She dies like several times,
and that, you know, her villain origin story is ridiculous.
It's like she's just like, I think whatever, this representation
of someone who is just like absolutely a selfish consumer

(01:14:45):
to her bones, literally her bones, because she's crevated.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
I also love that Debbie's evilness isn't tied to oh
I hate this other woman for being pretty or something,
you know, like she doesn't really like. She and Mortitia
are on opposite ends of the spectrum, but I wouldn't
say that, you know, they're at odds as far as

(01:15:12):
you know, oh she's prettier and oh she's got more money,
you know, which would have been super boring.

Speaker 4 (01:15:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
I love Martitia also is in you know, like I'm
not like other girls like and response to it. It's
just fucking beneath her and for her killing all of
these dudes. I never got like this faux feminist vibe
from it, you know, like, especially in the nineties where
it's like feminism is man hating and blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
You know, Yeah, she.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
Just wants money, which valid don't get married, just get cash.

Speaker 4 (01:15:46):
Yeah, she's doing a series of neutral acts. I think
she I Yeah, I like jumping off that point. I
think if Debbie was the only woman we met in
this movie, I would have some issue with it because
it's like, if you only get to know one woman
and she's extremely selfish and horrible and evil, you know,

(01:16:07):
that's something to talk about. But we get such a
range of types of women, especially in the Adams family,
like Martitia. Yeah, I love that. Martitia's like, I respect
what you're doing, but you look tacky doing it. Wednesday. Uh,
I mean you have you even have a range of
types of horrible waspy white lady. Debbie Jolinsky and Christine

(01:16:30):
Baranski's character are different flavors of terrible person and I
think Christine Baranski's far worse.

Speaker 3 (01:16:38):
Yes, and then you've got the Amanda the little rich
girl character. Yes, another brand of that.

Speaker 4 (01:16:46):
Yeah, there's I guess maybe it's because we were recovering
camp Rock too, but I was like, the it's such
a it's such a stock character, like the bitchy blonde
girl at camp.

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
And she probably wouldn't have been the bad if it
wasn't an Adam's Family movie. But what was interesting to
me about Amanda's character was like, this is very clearly
a child repeating the things that her parents and her
teachers were telling her. You know. She like, if you

(01:17:20):
don't know, you don't know, and you only know what
the adults around you are telling you or not telling you.
And adults weaponize this all the time, you know, because
it's like, oh, well, you can't get mad and you
can't say anything because it's a child, you know, Like,
what are you going to do? Bully a kid for
being racist? They don't know any better, and uh have.

Speaker 4 (01:17:43):
To fucking talk to them.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
You have to do better. And they'll run into someone
like Wednesday, who will you know, scalp them and burn
their village to the ground. We'll walk around and find.

Speaker 4 (01:17:54):
Out, Yeah, she will not forget that anytime soon. I
do think it's tricky with a character like Wednesday specifically,
I it seems like this is this dynamic is adjusted
somewhat in the Netflix series so that Wednesday can have
a friend I'm pretty sure, not sure, but this iteration

(01:18:14):
of Wednesday, like she's not going to be building a coalition.
That's just not what she's gonna do. So, you know,
I think the result of that is like you can't there.
You probably could have squeezed a little more. And it's
not that I wanted to admit a character on screen more,
but I feel like you could have gotten a little
more nuanced, like you were just describing Ali of like

(01:18:35):
we see that her parents are racist, but there's not
an explicit connection of she is parroting what her parents
are saying, because she does say like, you know, she's
not just racist, she's also very classist. She you know,
when they talk about, you know, uncle Fester is marrying
the help and I don't know, this movie will choose

(01:18:57):
a one liner over almost anything, so it's not like
we're going to get a deep insight into this very
toxic dynamic in Adam's family values. And not being said,
I do love that exchange between her and Wednesday where
Amanda's like, I'll be the victim and Wednesday is like
all your life. It's so good.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
I also love Okay, as soon as Fester comes back,
you know, and Gomez is on his deathbed, you know,
his heart is broken because he lost his brother, and
as soon as Fester comes back, it's just immediate love
and support, like we know, you know, it's not. Wednesday
has a moment where she's like, you know, you sent

(01:19:40):
us a camp and they made us sing, you know,
but she gets over it because that's their their unit,
that's their family, and it's just such a nice example
of how to care for your family when they come
back from a very abusive, toxic relationship up which you

(01:20:01):
know of all families do. To see Adam's family.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
I love the part right after Fester returns and Gomez
is kind of in disbelief about it, and he's just
like you are, mister Debbie, and I'm like, mister Debbie. Hilarious.

Speaker 4 (01:20:20):
They kind of they match each other's freaking a kind
of interesting way. I wasn't not rooting for.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
Them back to Wednesday really quick, though I would have.
I mean to me, it feels like they kind of
wedge in an unnecessary hetero love story.

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
There very studio notes.

Speaker 3 (01:20:40):
And look I Joel as a character I enjoy very much.
And you know, a camp crush that's familiar people can.

Speaker 4 (01:20:48):
But it's beneath Wednesday Adams.

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
Yeah, yeah, I do like that he comes over at
the very end of the movie and is now like
dressing like and Adams, and he basically gives up his
identity for a girl, and I think more men should
do that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
So and I love how how it ends where she's like,
I would scare him to death, you know, I assume
he does so does kill him. And I feel like
Wednesday is just like Debbie, that's how it's done. You
were slappy because they're over her grave as they do.
It's good.

Speaker 4 (01:21:28):
I also liked with with Joel. It's again it's it's
a very like not a harped upon point. But Joel
is from a Jewish family, and his family is very
racist toward natives, and he clearly, like I think the Joel,
we get a little closer to like what you would
hope for in a character like Amanda, where his parents

(01:21:50):
are just as racist as hers are, but he is
resisting it and you know, actually trying to learn because
he reads, because he reads.

Speaker 3 (01:21:59):
He's he reads books.

Speaker 4 (01:22:01):
Right right, which I mean even you know, hopefully he's
just choosing authors and sources carefully.

Speaker 3 (01:22:07):
Jul.

Speaker 4 (01:22:09):
But but yeah, like I do like that you have
an example of this kid who is unquestionably from privilege,
but is not just wholesale buying into the bullshit that
his parents believe. I think it's a good good character
for kids to see.

Speaker 1 (01:22:26):
And I like that his explicit jewishness is at the wedding.
So it's not, you know, a joke. It's not you know, like,
oh the Jewish kid, you know what I mean, Like,
it's not offensive, it's like, oh, he just happens to
be Jewish. And when he goes to the wedding, he's
wearing I think it's called Yamaica. I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (01:22:45):
I'm not kidding he's wearing a Yamica, right, Because a
lot of characters will be coded Jewish in movies but
not explicitly defined that way. But I think it's safe
to say that his Yamaica explicitly identifies him as being
a Jewish kid.

Speaker 4 (01:23:02):
Which which makes sense with Barry sound and fault. I
think that's been a very consistent part of like, you know,
he wants to have good representation of young Jewish characters.

Speaker 3 (01:23:12):
Right. Shout out to a couple of my favorite lines
slash jokes mortitious, saying, I'm just like any modern woman
trying to have it all, a loving husband, a family.
It's just I wish I had more time to seek
out the dark forces and join their hellish crusade.

Speaker 4 (01:23:29):
That's my one thing with this movie that there's so
much amazing, there's so many great storylines. I just I'm like,
not enough more Titia for me.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
I need.

Speaker 4 (01:23:40):
That's like the one thing that we're One of the
only things that the first movie has the edge over
the second movie, and is Gomez and Martitia are art
around for the majority of the action, and which I
don't know if that was like an availability thing or
whatever it may be, But I mean, I just always
want to see Raul.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
Julia's health was failing during the shooting of this movie.

Speaker 4 (01:24:06):
Oh wait, this is his last film, right, the.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
Last one that he shot. And then something else came
out after he had passed Street Fighter.

Speaker 4 (01:24:13):
Yes, wow, Karen, but very nineties, Yes, Okay, that that
does make sense.

Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
It could have been that, and maybe they needed to
make changes to the script to accommodate his health. We're
not totally sure, but he was missed.

Speaker 4 (01:24:28):
I also didn't realize that because the grandmother character is
under so much makeup that it's Carol Kane in this one.
I didn't didn't know that was her in there. Always
happy to see Carol Kane.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
Indeed, one of my other favorite jokes is Gomez saying
to Fester. After Fester is saying how oh he would
like to one day get married and have children, Gomez says,
I hope you someday know the indescribable joy of having
children and paying someone else to raise them. Hilarious, incredible.

Speaker 1 (01:25:03):
Do you know? Like this movie was so ahead of
its time anyways, But the fact that Pubert, you know,
when he is possessed in his blonde and looks like
the grandma, is like, he could become a lawyer and
he's not in this house. He could be the president.
I was like, you know what, that is legitimately terrifying

(01:25:26):
now because there are lawyers who voted for Trump and
Trump became president, and I would definitely be concerned as
well for my child.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
Oh yes, I do.

Speaker 4 (01:25:37):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:25:38):
Their whole thing, like I feel like it hasn't really
been done effectively since, but does the ideas of like
them being the least American family in terms of like
ascribing to these like white supremacist American values and yet
really thriving all at all times. It's very cool.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
Yeah, I mean, like, when you think about it, it's
like gom as a Morticia. Not only do they just
love each other like fiercely, like they are very romantic,
very sexual, very you know, like on each other's level,
but they also respect each other. They co parent together.
It's not like, you know, oh, I'm cleaning up after

(01:26:20):
my useless husband while he you know, weaponizes his incompetence.
You know. It's, uh, it's very interesting, it's very wholesome.
I also love how they're just so secure in their
sexuality so much, like they know they're the hottest people
in the room and the hottest people to each other.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
It's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:26:42):
It's it's great goals.

Speaker 3 (01:26:44):
Yeah, I was just gonna say, hashtag relationship goals. And yeah,
I think we talk about that in quite a bit
of depth in our first episode, so if listeners want
to go back and check that out, we wax poetic
about it. The last thing I wanted to say was

(01:27:05):
Wednesday talking about Gary's play, right after she's initially been
cast in it, and she's like, I don't want to
be in this and she says, your work is puerile
and under dramatized. You lack any sense of structure, character
or the Aristotelian unities. And it's like us describing most
movies they cover on the.

Speaker 4 (01:27:26):
Podcast Wednesday Adams come on the show, Christina, please, Yeah,
I think that that's all I had. But that was
a lot. I mean this, this movie gives a lot
to chew on or however you say that correctly, a
lot of gristle to.

Speaker 3 (01:27:45):
That was the word I was chew on. It's another
weird word.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Some one did say that Fester and Debbie is like
Trump and Millennia, but I disagree completely, because Fester adores
Debbie and Trump doesn't adore anybody except himself and his money.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Yeah, it's like, guys, why you got a drag Fester? Yeah, no,
it doesn't deserve that Festers.

Speaker 3 (01:28:08):
He's had it hard enough. It feels almost subversive to
me that he's this like love sick, like longing for companionship,
and he wants to be married so much, and he's
like he submits to the first woman that shows any
interest in him. He's you know, he's like a very
just love sick man.

Speaker 4 (01:28:29):
I mean, it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
Feels like to see more of that.

Speaker 4 (01:28:31):
It feels like they're they like he or Debbie keeps
waiting for him to feel emasculated, right, and he just doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
He just doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:28:40):
It's not a.

Speaker 4 (01:28:41):
Part of his makeup. And I'm like, great, I don't know.
It's he was looking for a woman to throw a
toaster in his bats up and she found him. Yeah,
rip Debbie.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
Oh daddy. My mom took personal offense that her name
was Debbie, just because of how Fester would be like,
oh Debbie. She's like, stop.

Speaker 3 (01:29:06):
It wait, is that your mom's name?

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
My mom's name was Debbie. I take personal but her
name is Debbie, just because how dare oh poor mama.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
Does anyone have anything else they'd like to talk about?
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:24):
I like how this movie was as good as it
was for the run time that it had. It doesn't
feel like it dragged on for too long, except for
you know, Fester's O face that dragged on a bit
too long. But I just watched it this morning with
my family and we laughed our asses off.

Speaker 3 (01:29:42):
So it's like a cool ninety four minutes or something
like that. I love it. We should go back to
those I know, so I'm always saying the movie does
pass the Bechdel test where Wednesday and Amanda insult each other,

(01:30:04):
Wednesday and Debbie.

Speaker 4 (01:30:06):
All of the Debbie confrontation that Mortitia and Debbie. There's
at least one exchange in there that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:12):
Yeah, Martitia and her mom. I think either mostly talk
about the baby who's a boy or Gomez, but maybe
there's a couple quick exchanges. Either way, the movie passes.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
She curses Debbie.

Speaker 3 (01:30:26):
Oh yeah, that passes. A woman curses, another one cursing Debbie.
So yeah, lots of passes. Lots of combinations are nipple scale, though,
where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based
on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, I'll give it.

(01:30:49):
I think like a three, maybe even as much as
a three and a half. And maybe that's too generous,
but considering this is a mainst stream studio movie in
the early nineties that has a full monologue where a
character acknowledges land theft and displacement and poverty and class

(01:31:17):
disparity between white colonizers and Native people, and that is
followed by a scene of said colonizers burning like their
village burning to the ground, and you know, the main
pilgrim lady being tied up at the stake about to

(01:31:41):
be burned. All that like, it's very cathartic. As we've discussed,
It's not handled perfectly. There are you know, things that
could have been done a little bit differently, but again
for the early nineties, it feels pretty groundbreaking for a
movie to have done that. So and I just you know,

(01:32:02):
I love this family. I love the characters who are
girls and women in this family. They get most of
the best jokes and laugh lines. I love it when
women are allowed to be funny and allowed to have
jokes because so few movies and so a few comedy
movies let women say the funny things. But most of

(01:32:23):
the best jokes are either Mortitia or Wednesday. Mabby is
pretty funny too, and Debbie's funny too. Yeah, it's great
every performance. No one does a bad job.

Speaker 4 (01:32:38):
No one does a bad job in this movie.

Speaker 3 (01:32:39):
So yeah, three, I'm gonna three and a half and
I'll give one to Wednesday, one to more Titia, one
to Debbie. She did nothing wrong, right, maybe Ibbie, And
I'll give my half nipple to all to the kitten
maybe got buried alive at the beginning rip. I know,
I think it escaped. That's my head canon.

Speaker 4 (01:33:02):
I think I'll make sure at three point five. With
the understanding that we've talked about a bit, and as
you talk about in your video, ALLI like that my
enjoyment of the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:33:12):
Does you know.

Speaker 4 (01:33:13):
I would never argue against a Native viewer who was like, no,
fuck it, it's still doing a lot of the same
reductive tropes that we see in movies over and over.
But I agree with the Caitlin that this movie is
doing this, particularly for its time, something that not only
were other family directed media not attempting, but in short

(01:33:34):
order would be doing the exact opposite with Pocahontas. And
so the fact that this came out a year and
a half before Pocahontas, I think is actually it is
really really worth remembering how these movies are in conversation
with one another, even though there are shortcomings that this
movie has and that it is still ultimately centered on whiteness. Yeah,

(01:33:59):
I mean, we've talked about most of it. But I
think that this this movie and this like series in general,
it just is like an endless amount of opportunities to
push back on popular white supremacist American narratives, and I
think this movie is the best example of them really
swinging for the fences with it. So I'm gonna go
three and a half nipples, and I'm giving them all

(01:34:19):
to the very son Enfeld episode.

Speaker 3 (01:34:24):
Well, speaking of rip RIP.

Speaker 1 (01:34:29):
I am giving it four because I loved it. I
really loved it, just because of how cathartic it was,
you know, and how it still like holds up now,
and especially because like it could be made today, but
then it would be canceled for being woke or something
equally ridiculous and be like God that was so forced,

(01:34:51):
or Wednesday gave that speech you know today, right, but
still they would be wrong today anyway. So I would
give my nipples to Mortitia and to Debbie that who
else can have them? Who else? A thing?

Speaker 3 (01:35:12):
Why not?

Speaker 1 (01:35:13):
But he has to watch his name first after got No.

Speaker 4 (01:35:21):
Really, the of this movie is just doing so much,
like so much? Why why all the incest implications with
with the mom right?

Speaker 3 (01:35:33):
Is thing related to them?

Speaker 1 (01:35:35):
I hope not?

Speaker 3 (01:35:36):
I hope not.

Speaker 4 (01:35:37):
I guess I was talking about the mom thing? Why
the mom thing? But why is that there? Why is
that there? I don't know. Also shout out okay, I
I couldn't tell if the movie. I think the movie
was poking fun at him a little bit, But I
liked that Fester was not ashamed or embarrassed or felt

(01:35:58):
any which way about saying that he hadn't had sex before.

Speaker 3 (01:36:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:36:02):
I liked that. I thought that was a cool moment,
and especially because the contrasted, like the joke of the
scene is that she is lying about being a virgin,
because that is something that is valued, especially in white womanhood,
is you know, purity, blah blah blah and that. But
it's gross. It's like emasculating if men, you know what

(01:36:25):
I'm talking about. But he was like, oh, I'm a
virgin too, awesome. I was like, I love you love.

Speaker 3 (01:36:30):
I feel like the movie doesn't really cast judgment on
him for that. Yeah, but I don't know. I was like,
probably the.

Speaker 4 (01:36:37):
Nineteen ninety three I'm sure that that is supposed to
be a laugh live but it just really endeared me
to him. And it just is another way that the
Adams family kind of consistently eschewes these gender norms.

Speaker 3 (01:36:51):
Well, there you have it. That's our Adams Family Valuees episode. Allie,
thank you so much for joining us. Where can people
bull check out your work? Tell us what you'd like
to plug?

Speaker 1 (01:37:05):
Okay, so you can visit me on YouTube. That's where
you'll get like my quality stuff. If you want to
see my less quality stuff but still entertaining. I guess
I'm on TikTok. I still run the Ali Nati Test
on Tumblr, but it's the Aila Dash the Dash Aila
Dash Test on Tumblr. I also run another blog that's

(01:37:31):
not as fun, but I still try to make it pretty,
you know, like relevant or important. It's called the your
fave is Anti Native and that one is about It's
kind of in the vein of your favorite problematic, except
it focuses specifically on public figures, so actors or politicians

(01:37:52):
or world leaders or whoever with like a big public
influential presence how they have been anti Indigenous with their racism,
either in the past or currently. So it doesn't like
just tackle any like rando on the Internet. It's specifically like,
this is who this person is, this is how you

(01:38:13):
know who they are, and this is what they've said,
you know, And it's less about you know call out
culture and more about how normalized anti indigenous racism is
like across a scale, you know, like if our politicians
and our movie stars and stuff can get away with

(01:38:35):
saying it, I mean, of course the people, the rando's
and the comments are going to feel comfortable saying it,
you know. So there's a lot of people on there,
but more creatively, I mean, like my YouTube is the
place to go for some more fun. And I have
a project that's coming up soon that should be done

(01:38:57):
sometime this week. It was supposed to be do on
Memorial Day, but me and deadlines since it's not my job.
So take your time and thank you so much for
inviting me. I always love coming on. And this is
number four now.

Speaker 4 (01:39:10):
Right, yeah, five timer jacket on the way, the jacket
we makeup.

Speaker 1 (01:39:15):
I'm so happy you guys aren't sake of me.

Speaker 4 (01:39:17):
I love you, We love you. Oh my gosh, thank you,
thank you for coming back.

Speaker 1 (01:39:21):
Thank you, thank you Megwitch. I did want to say though,
I wanted to really thank both of you because of
the search the landfill hashtag that we talked about in
the Avatar episode, because they found them. Like I try

(01:39:41):
to keep you guys in the updated every time new
information came up, but they found them, and so I
you know, obviously a lot of people did a lot
of work, but I think that though talking about it
on the Beckel Cast probably put it on people's radar,
otherwise wouldn't have. So I think every little bit helps,

(01:40:04):
And I just wanted to thank you guys for doing that, so.

Speaker 4 (01:40:07):
Literally the least we could do. Thank you, Thank you
so much for consistently bringing important stories here.

Speaker 1 (01:40:13):
Let's do the same for Jonathan Johns and give him
some justice.

Speaker 4 (01:40:16):
Justice for Jonathan. I still yeah, I literally just checked
to be like, has anyone else from Parks and Rex
said anything not at the time of this recording.

Speaker 1 (01:40:26):
Yeah, so fix that.

Speaker 4 (01:40:29):
Fucking fix it. Yeah, And with that, let's go, yell,
let's go shake our fist at Debbie's grave.

Speaker 3 (01:40:39):
By bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia,
hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lichterman,
edited by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by
Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Voss Krasinski. Our logo
and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus and a special

(01:41:02):
thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast,
please visit link Tree Slash Bechtelcast

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