Batman with Riley Silverman

Bat-Caitlin and Jamie the Boy Wonder swoop in to decimate the roles women play in Tim Burton's Batman with special guest Riley Silverman!

 

(This episode contains spoilers)

Follow @ryesilverman on Twitter! While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante and @hamburgerphone 

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On thee cast, the questions asked if movies have women
and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands
or do they have individualism the patriarchy and best start
changing it with the bel cast. Hi, welcome to the
bec dol Cast. I'm Jamie Loftus, I'm Caitlin Toronto and
where your hosts we are? That was really close? Yeah,

(00:24):
that wait close to what being to the normal intro.
I think you actually say you know, I'm your Well
usually you say I'm your first host, and then I
have to say I'm your second host, and that makes
never good. That's happened at least twice. I don't say
or I say or maybe I'm just I'm like, i'm
your projectives. Yeah, that's what happens. I just say I'm

(00:46):
your host, Caitlin, and then you say I'm your other
host and get really insecure at the top of every
episode and then dial back for the remainder of the
episode like you're too hard on yourself. Hopefully that doesn't
happen time around. James Jasper great and I like you
so much. I just wish people would tell me that
all the time. Oh, text you at least once a

(01:08):
day with those every uh. Well, just to give you
an idea of what this podcast is about. If you
haven't listened to any other episodes, which you should do,
but if you haven't, we talk about the portrayal of
female characters in movies and going off the Bechtel. That's

(01:29):
Alison Bechdel. She has a test, and we, uh, look
up the test. Look it up, guys, just look up.
There's a whole internet out there with information. I like
that when we say look up the test long enough
to have actually explained the test, I know I'll get there.

(01:49):
Get there, we will, and let's without let's not stall
any longer. How about we introduce our guests this week.
I'm excited. Yeah, she is a median and a very
funny person. Riley Silverman, thanks for having me, Thanks for
being here. I'm a comedian and a very funny person. Yes, right,
because sometimes those two things are not true. That is

(02:12):
very true. I know a lot of comedians who are
not funny, and I know a lot of funny people
who are not comedians. So both you are both. Congratulations.
That a rarity, a true because sometimes you're just exactly
like sometimes you're just a comedian and associopath, But you're
not funny. That happens a lot in today's movie. Actually

(02:35):
it's true that was I was foreshadowing. Yes, good job,
I wasn't sub tweeting. And speaking of that movie, we
are talking about Tim Burton's Batman from nineteen nine, uh Riley,
when like, what was the first time you saw this
movie or what's like your relationship to this movie. I
have a weird, complicated history of this movie because I

(02:57):
did see it when it came out because I was
I was people thought I was a boy, and uh,
I was a I was a nerd and so like
a superhero movie coming out was like right up my alley,
like it was. It was huge, and I was obsessed
with Batman at that point in time, and I you know,
because that's what was there. And at that point, my
only real major experience of Batman had been the nineteen
sixties six TV series, which is like, so can't be

(03:17):
in at the top. Yeah, And so then I had
a few comics and stuff like that, but like not
a lot. And I remember this movie came out and
then also I was struggling at my gender identity and
there was a cracked magazine parody of Batman. That was like,
because I did the movie comic parody every time movie
would come out, because that name was everywhere. And there
is a scene in this movie where um, Vicky Vale

(03:40):
gets let into the bat Cave and like, we'll talk
about that more later, I'm sure, but like, um, in
the comic, they kind of slimmed that down a little
bit and they just had Bruce kind of like come
out to Vicky as being Batman, which is a scene
in the movie as well, but doesn't happen, but in
the in the comic, he like steps out and he's
in the bath suit and he's like, I something to
tell you whatever, And she's like, oh, you're a transvestite,

(04:01):
And like, I I am a transgender woman. I'm not transvestite.
It's not a word that I used anymore, but it
was the very first word that I ever heard to
describe anyone of like a variant general identity. So it's
like this weird thing. And I remember I had a
babysitter and I was reading this crap comic and I
remember asking my babysitter like, what is it? What does
transvestite mean? And she was like, Oh, it's a term

(04:23):
for like men who dressed up like women because they
want to be women. And I said, oh, that's what
I am. Like, that's like a thing that happened and
like my childhood, and I remember like freaking out my
so like you can't tell your parents told you. But
that means like he's gonna be like like she didn't
know because she's a teenager who's like just being paid
like a couple bucks an hour to watch HBO at
my house. Um, but yeah, that's that's like so Batman
has always been this weird like tie into my coming out.

(04:45):
And I was talking to Caitlin off Mike before you
got here, Jamie about how there's also an episode of
the Batman animated series where Poison Ivy and Hardly Quinn
having a girl's night out in the town and I
remember that being like my first film slash, Like yeah,
like I've been obsessed with that episodes ever since. It's
like my like first like in my like baby Riley,
queer girl like like lesbian pairs like like like fan

(05:05):
fick in my And it's actually now in the comics
a little actually kind of made a cannon. Those two
are actually are a couple and it's like my like,
someone just like channeled my childhood into pages and made
it a thing. I love it. Yeah, everything is connected.
I used to my did you have like cartoons that
you wanted to make out when you were younger? Nothing

(05:27):
comes to mind, but I think you're lying. I know
if I had, I wish I had something to say,
because what kind of a nerd are you that you
don't have cartoon makeout fantasies? Um, yeah, that was ironic.
Actually I was. I was not actually calling you a nerd.
I hope and and Nanchell. I don't want their cousin.

(05:50):
And here's the thing. I didn't watch the many cartoons
as a kid because well, one we didn't have cable.
I didn't have cable growing up, so I did have
like Nickelodeon or Disney or anything like that. I did
watch Gargoyles a lot. That was pretty good, but I
don't remember watching that many cartoons. I was like, I
don't even know what I watched. I watched the movies

(06:13):
that I still love now, like Indiana Jones and Back
to the Future. I wasn't watching a bunch of kid cartoons.
And I think that's why I hate children, and I
directed towards children because I just never watched because it's
anything that's not children, it's Indiana Jones. Those are definitely
not hate kids, hate time travel and adventures only. No,

(06:37):
I'm saying, well, those are things that, yeah, exactly can
enjoy those things. Also, I'm just saying I didn't watch
things that were only for a children audience that mine
were dug In Skeeter, I actually didn't watch. I wanted

(07:02):
them to be together. That's what I wanted really bad.
I can like summon what I used to think about.
Just them kissing on a bench, like a very specific bench,
and they were listening to the beats. Does the band
from Doug is dug in his crown man outfit, like
it's like a kinky thing that would be tight, that
would be like an episode of You were like underwear

(07:23):
on the outside of his hands on his forehead, put
my put your hands down my underwear and he's like,
which pair? It's It's great, It's now now I've got
to go home and watch if anyone, if anyone listening
to the podcast wants to draw me some duck In
Skeeter scissoring, I can. I'm gonna look up. I think

(07:46):
there's got to be Like they're perfect. They compliment each
other in every way. That's why they're best friends. And
like they've got different body ties but not like to
like I'm just like that very long. He's like he
does have Like I didn't realize until like years later

(08:07):
that like the idea was supposed to be kind of that,
like they were supposed to be like an interracial thing,
like like a person of color, because he's drawn green,
Like I didn't get that that whole year, like any
It's it's weird because Doug is white. His whole family
is white, and then the rest of the characters are
just like various colors. Because Patty wasn't Patty many his

(08:30):
orange ish she was maybe he wasn't supposed to be
and I just erased us now like he was. And
then Roger the bully was like neon green. Last I
think I can't find anything of Skeeter and Dug together,
but I'm finding a whole lot of Dug and Roger
stuff so much like it's like yer one, this is

(08:53):
very sweet. They're so in love. Uh well, this episode
is now about and no longer about that. Man, I
can't believe that there's no dug In Skinner. That was
a frozen cursory question. Jamie does and animations and I
have like a series of people I would like to
see scissor scissors. You should it? So how much would

(09:16):
I have to pay you for it? For freezies? So
it's just fun for me to do. I literally I
have the Batman animated Serious Poison, Ivy Harley Quinn, and
I actually the fun Co Pops And when I got them,
I actually like posted them might be ever kissing. It's
like a picture of it, yes, five years old. Yes,

(09:37):
And I'm kiggling. I'm literally giggling. I don't like, but like,
I just love it so funny, like ridiculous, Like oh
my god, this is like sending a letter back to
my chop. Oh my favorite one I made uh is
for okay? And then I promise we'll talk about Batman.
I'm trying to bring it about me. I'm just not
bringing it to about me in the movie. I'm actively
bringing it away over and over. My favorite scissoring one
that I would direct everyone too is young Henry Kissinger,

(10:01):
an old I think I remember that one that was
a custom one for Josh Andraski, and yeah, because that's
what he would want. It's what he'd want. Well, look
it is it like on where can people find it?
I'll post it on our Twitter concrete. Jamie, What is

(10:21):
your history with this movie? Have you seen it before?
Guess no? No, I watched it today. As with every
movie we've ever done, I watched it today. I liked it.
I thought it was great. Yeah, it was. It's so
much fun. It felt like July when I was watching it.
I was a summer baffled. It was well, and did

(10:44):
not like Mad Max fury Road my brain Mad Max
fury Road. I I'm triggered. I don't talk about Mad
Max fury Road. I'll never bring it up again. But
I did not spatman. Okay, that's interesting, all right, we
will talk about it. Because so I saw this movie

(11:04):
for the first time. I think I was in college.
I was probably like nineteen or twenty UM, which is
about ten years ago. Because I'm not afraid to reveal
my age. Yeah, I'm an aging woman in Hollywood. So
what Well. Sorry, I don't know why I started yelling,
but I saw a calm down. I know you can

(11:24):
get so upset about things like, you know, I'm just
getting so emotional because of all of my hormones just
going haywire because I'm reaching menopause or whatever. I don't
know anyway, what is aging? Does it work? Time doesn't?
Is a construct and life is meaningless? Any who do

(11:47):
no life has meaning, and uh so does this podcast.
So I've seen to maybe probably four times, and each
time I watch it I like it less and less.
Well that's it. It's it's not a good movie for women,
certainly not. I think it was a fun movie. I
don't like it. I remember liking it when I was
a kid, just because like, oh is that man like
it could have been It really could have been Batman

(12:08):
like like fighting City Hall over like some sort of
parking ticket. But if it was Batman, like that man's
in a movie and stuff like, I don't think that
I got any of what is actually happening movie when
I was a kid, And then I probably watched a
couple of times when I was like a teenager, but
not in a long time, and I was like not
prepared for how much of it was, Like, oh my god,
I can't be up this movie. I think what happened
for me, it's so weird, but I'm on board. I

(12:30):
like it. I mean I liked it at the time
and it's still not bad. I mean I have it
on DVD, so I liked it enough to buy it.
But um, I think what happened for me is that
I saw Christopher Nolan's trilogy and especially Batman Begins and
The Dark Knight. I just like those movies much more
then I think they're fantastic. Yeah, I love them. I

(12:53):
like the Joel Schumaker. Oh god, you've seen those ones
and not Tim Burton's. Okay, But the thing is, I
love Joel Schumacher. Like when I was growing up, if
anyone he's one of the worst favorite director, I'd be like,
I'm a Schumacher Man of the opportunities. But did he Yes,

(13:16):
he did, of course he did. I want to get
on board here like in Schumacher. But you keep saying
movies that should not argue for Joel Schumacher has directed
only bad movies that I have enjoyed. That's like if
someone who's like, oh, I like I like in My Chiama,
What do you love? Oh? I love the Happening, Like
that's the Lost Boys. Yeah, that's that's that's a movie
that if you had said that, I would not have

(13:36):
made fun of you for it. But you also made
Phone Booth. He made great flat liars. I like Flowers.
He make the fanom of the Offers his best movie.
He had a guitar solos to Andrew lid Webber. That's fun.
Also Patrick Wilson and Anything. To be fair, I think
Fantom itself is like an overrated show and so like

(13:57):
the movie also is like it like takes like somehow
to just show that that gets really boring about halfway
through it and made it even more boring somehow it is.
I mean it is a boring I'm very attached to
it because I used to sneak out of my house
and then put on like goth clothes and go see
the fan with Actually, what I'm getting from this, you're
like a fan of the opera and Batman is You

(14:17):
love movies that people have been horribly disfigured in the face,
like that is your thing, love funked up face, and
you should have loved Fury, wrote I should have, But
it was the most boring movie I've ever seen in
my life. All Right, I was saying off Mike, but
I do like Batman Robin is a bad movie that
it's badly made and badly acted except for Uma Thermous
Poison Ivy, and she just like knocked out the park
to the point where she's like, I think there's a

(14:40):
lot of people in movies that are always like, very
aware the movie. Everyone everyone else isn't. And I feel
like she's an example of that. The famous most famous
when everyone thinks of his junior girl shown me in
the Show Girls, like she just knows exactly what she's
doing there. And I feel like even speaking of Batman,
the newest, the Batman Versus Sperman movie, a lot of
people didn't like Jessie Eisenberg, but I loved him because
I feel like it's only one came to set every day.
I was like, we're literally making a movie called Batman

(15:01):
or Superman. I'm not going to torn it down at all. Ever,
the entire movie, I didn't see it, neither did I.
He as Lex Luther and that, yeah, I got it.
I've got a picture pulled up here of an almost
shirtless Joel Shoemaker gro that's just wikipedia picture. It's all
he would have wanted it I'm still alive. I'm gonna
just keep this sorry episode on track as best I

(15:23):
can't Batman because Batman is so like it's it's such
a far reaching thing. It's not just like one movie,
but it is. Yeah, this movie is the movie itself
deserved we talked about. So the tricky thing about an
episode like this is we are basically isolating Batman to
this one movie. And like I was saying before, I'm

(15:44):
not um super familiar with any of the comic books
or any everything I know about Batman. I know from
the like seven Batman movies that I've seen, So sorry
to all you Batman super fans, I'll probably get some
things wrong about stuff, but and also grow up up.
We're also like I'm not even I mean, I'm just
getting back into comics after a very long hiatus. But

(16:07):
it feels like DC resets their continuity on a pretty
regular basis. So I feel like if someone's like I
thought how things worked, It's like, Okay, well, what deck
are you talking about? Because a lot of things change
the work. I like that that makes it easy for um.
As per usual, I will give a very terrible recap
of the story at no one's request, and as usual,
I will interrupt it a lot. I can't wait, okay,

(16:29):
uh silently and say nothing. No, you can contribute. I
love interrupted. I wrote a really fast This is going
to go really fast. Okay. So there's a a Batman,
but we don't sure he's real. They're like, there's a Batman.
There's Batman, but we don't know if he's really are not,
and the bad guys are just kind of scared of
him but kind of not. And then he's like, no,

(16:50):
it's me. I am Batman. Tell all your friends. And
meanwhile they're in the city of Gotham, in Gotham City,
Gotham City, got it and there and the all the
politics are trying to crack down on crime because they're
a bunch of white guys. One of them is not
a white guy, Harvey turns White fort Man Forever, but
he is a black man in this film. Yes, so hey,

(17:12):
good for them, District attorney. He uh. They're trying to
crack down on crime and specifically go after this mob
boss named Grisome and he has this right hand man
named Jack Napier. But he's trying to get rid of
Jack because they're like f and the same woman. So

(17:32):
they go to this chemical plant and Jack falls into
this vat of acid. It's like a corrupt cop who's
working for Grisome who tries to kill Jack, and then
Batman drops Jack. Yeah, and then he becomes the Joker
because his skin gets all bleached and his hair turns
green and he has a different personality. He has nerve
damage on his face that puts him in a perpetual

(17:53):
crazy grin. Yeah, so now he's the Joker. And then
there's also this lady named Vicky Vay and she's like, yo,
I'm a photographer. I'm trying to snap some photos of Batman.
So hey, journalist friend named knocks, let's try to win
a political away. Oh the kind of hell out of me? Um?
And then she starts dating Bruce Wayne and then other

(18:18):
stuff happens. That's pretty much like the first act. Then
the Jokers like I'm bad and Batman's like, no, I'm
gonna get you. And then yeah, that's one thing like jokers.
I know you're like a photographer and your famous, but
you're like like hot, not want to have you. I
love that scene where he first sees a picture of
her and he calls her a beast. He's like, this

(18:40):
kind of beast can't just be walking around. I was like,
oh jeez, wait, who calls the Joker like a little
beast but doesn't even proceed it with a sexy adjective.
He just straight up consert beast. Towards the end he
calls her a beast again. Whenever he's like, oh uh,
this is fitting Beauty and the Beast, but if anyone

(19:02):
else calls you be still rip out their lungs. It
was hilarious because he was trying to call himself beauty. Hey, guys,
listen to our Beauty and the Beast episode. That was
a fun one. Yeah, we've done what like ten episodes
not I've seen one movie. Oh. The Joker's plot that
he's doing is he has hidden these chemicals in cosmetics

(19:24):
around the city that when they're combined to make a
person laugh themselves to death and also get the same
nerve damage that he got him faced body being cut.
But somehow they're all it's the chemical smile x. But
he also livings like an art project, seas an art banksy.
I like the scene where he throws paint on the
other art and dances Prince remember the kid loving that

(19:47):
scene like I remember, not like I remember, Like I
think he was so much fun. And I love the
idea of like going to an art gallery and ruining
people's words. I loved it today. It's like what if
you and your friends just like when with your own
song and just ruined priceless Heart. He loves causing havoc
to music, like that's his whole thing in this movie.
Like does this scene earlier on when he kills Griss

(20:09):
some Jack Palance's character, he like like suddenly does like
circus music playing. He's like firing his gun, but like
he's both shooting directly at him but also at every
other inch of the room, just like it's like dancing,
does not throw the gun over his shoulder. So that's
the story. That was pretty quick I managed to get

(20:29):
it out. I thought I thought Jack Palance was Martin
Gen the resemblance. Yeah, yeah, because I was almost like,
because I'm like weirdly horny for Martin Gen. I was like, oh,
but then it was Jack Palance, Like God damn it.
I wanted I wanted the president, not the guy from
City Sluckers exactly. I wanted president part like I don't

(20:51):
want a guy's going to remissus amy his name at
the Academy war. No, I don't want Charlie Sheen's Daddio.
I think of him as Amelio Esteves's dad. I want
to be their step mom. Cute. That would be such
a good mommy to hey, Charlie Amelia. There's another. I
think there's at least one other brother who's very Oh. No,

(21:15):
I think Martin Sheen has a okay the family tree.
I always mixed up Martin Sheen wh I was younger.
I don't do it so much more about Martin Sheen
and Uh, I don't think the guy who's married to
UM Captain Sata Jones um Michael Douglas some reason. As
a kid, I always thinks I think they had the
same haircut, and like I see their old white guys
who yeah, they're all Douglas, but they played Yeah, they

(21:37):
played the same kind of basic role, but they were
different ages. Michael Keaton and Michael Douglas are not the
same man, true, although I think Michael this whole real
name is Michael Douglas. But he couldn't take that, like
because it's made him change it. What else is Michael Keaton.
I'm not having Michael Keaton's last name is Douglas. I
think so in real life some reason, I in my mind,

(21:58):
I always just thought he was like Buster Keaton's grandson
or something. In my head, I always assumed that and
never looked it up. I could be very wrong. I
know the facts, Hey, fake news. I have literally no
facts to back up what I just said. I just
always assumed that. In my head. I always assumed that
clay A Duval was Rapert Duval's daughter, and that is

(22:19):
not and to the fact that to the point where
I was like telling people, oh, yeah, she's his daughter,
and that's not true at all. That's fake fake news. Baby.
Oh so his other big thing before that was Mr
Mom and Beetlejuice. Okay, he was a huge and he's
he's making quite a bit of a comeback and deservedly. Yeah,

(22:41):
I've heard the founders great, but yeah, he was like
And the thing about him being cast in Batman was
it was kind of like a very much like when
Ben Affleck was cast. I was like, what, why would
you because because he's a comedian and he was like
known for his ridiculous comedy roles, and then they're casting
him as Bruce Wayne and Batman was like the weird.
It was like a very bizarre choice for the time period.
But also Tim Burton just seems to only better work

(23:01):
with one actor repeatedly. And that's what happened. Like, Oh,
I like that. I like Michael Keaton. No, no, I
like Johnny Depp. Okay, I'll keep casting him, Like right,
there's something to be said for like an aggressively good
looking man who insists on playing characters. Anyways, Like that's
and it's like, what what strength of spirit you have?
You keep Michael Keaton is aggressively attractive. Oh no, But

(23:22):
like I feel like I think in his prime he
was I think we I mean, not only is he
underfractive for his personal life issues as well, but he
just became kind of a weird. He didn't getting back
to Joel Shoe, I feel that way about Patrick Wilson
and fandom of the opera. Patrick Wilson's a very handsome man,

(23:43):
but you know, in some movies he's getting his dick
chopped off by a very young page boy haircut Ellen
Page and then the next year he's love that movie.
Oh my god. Anyways, I just wanted to talk about
Patrick Wilson go back, well it connects and that he's
also a superhero in the Watchman. True, he's a wow,

(24:06):
he's like about that Back to Man, We've got Michael
Keaton's attractive. He's he's not not unattractive, but I wouldn't
He's not convention I think he was considered attractive at
the time. I think he was like like Billy crystal
fuzz hair that I cannot get. Everyone in this movie
has the same haircut and it's confused. I must have

(24:28):
been very humid on the set. Every little frizzy what
is us? I mean, it's a gag about it later
because when the smile like toxin isn't anything, the idea
is like no one can use makeup or hair products
because they're afraid they're going to be murdered by it.
And so because are like they're like like airlifting still
airlifting in cosmetics from outside the city. And yeah that
he touches all have like horrible boils in their faces,

(24:48):
like yeah, at least like the part with the newscasters
are are like on on camera looking like how at
least they did make the men and women it wasn't
like the guys look fine that went because like there
was I know I'm probably speaking out the fron at
this point, but I noticed, like I feel like women
are the only ones who actually die or smile likes
in the film, Like unless I'm missing somebody, but I
like every victim of smile because like a supermodel or

(25:10):
a female newscaster, the two models and then the ya
that newscaster woman who dies, and those are the only people,
those are the only like on screen as we see
there like very obviously they died. Um, speaking of those
characters and other characters, like the main ones the women
that we have in this film. The main female character

(25:30):
is Vicky Vale played by Kim Bay Singer and Alicia
Hunt played by a crap I free to name Ry
Hall Jerry Hall and she but she was more of
a secondary character. Um, she doesn't get a ton of
screen time versus uh the main male characters which are
Bruce Wayne Ak Batman, Jack Napier a k the Joker,

(25:53):
and then the more secondary characters are Lieutenant Eckhart Grissom,
the mob Boss, Commissioner Gordon Harvey Dent the reporter, Knox
Alfred the servant, man and the Jokers assistant guy like
I think, and all the guys who mob worked for
Grisham like a hand buzzer. This is an example of

(26:14):
a movie where almost everyone on screen is a man. Yeah,
because like all of the cops are men, all of
the bad guys are men, all of the journalists are
men at least, so like it seems as though anyone
at least with a job in Gotham City is a man. Yeah.

(26:35):
The only women you have, you do have the newscasters.
There's two of them because one gets one gets one
gets dead and the other one. And it's also a
lot of like old ladies in background shots. I noticed that,
Like I know, it's like there's like a scene like
in the department stores. I mean, it's like a lot
of like older like spinster ladies that are all doing
their shopping or a lot of they are decent and
having a lot of women the crowd scenes. At least
I think they were, but I can't be totally wrong.

(26:56):
But and then Vicky Vale has a job she does
she's doing. I think he's an established photographer. Um. In
any case, all of the of the main characters who
have like significant roles in the story. Almost all of
them are men, and the few women that we do have,
well one look exactly alike they are when I was

(27:18):
a kid, Land Ladies when I was a kid. The
first time I saw it, I definitely got Vicky Vail
and Alicia mixed up at first, like until I think,
until learned the same scene together, I'm like, oh, I
think that was the same. Yeah, that was too confusing.
I was like, one can't just have sort of curly
hair and they're like the same, very very hot lady,
and like, good for them, sure, like they are adapting

(27:40):
us from source material that might have also featured mostly
white dudes. But the nice thing about adaptations is that
you can change things. If you want to update things
and make them more like include more types of people,
you can do that. And also you really can't even
give that one like even that, like oh the adaptation

(28:00):
argument because Tim Burton Lee very famously did not really
care about the comics and like didn't really read the comics,
so he kind of made his own version of Batman
and so still made everyone a white dude. Yeah, well
he's and he's like he just this even as as
of this year, when he made that, um, the school
for Unusual children, like he had that that comment that was, like,

(28:22):
the story doesn't really call for it, Why would I
have it in there? And it's like that because you
can just have people existing in the world. No, okay,
where was I going? Oh okay, here we go. The
first time that we see Vicky Vale, the first time
she was introduced, all we see are her legs, because

(28:42):
did you know that women are just a collection of
their body parts? Have you ever seen the Headless Women
of Hollywood blog? No, it's wonderful. It's by a fabulous
New York comic named Marcia Bellski and she yeah, she
aggregates all like the movie post stars that are just
women's Yes, I've seen that dropped camera no face and like, yeah,

(29:08):
check it out a gang. She's great and it's there's
literally no like limit on the source material. Yeah, it's
a spectrum everything cool. So, yeah, we are introduced to
her by her legs that are just propped up on
the table. Knox goes, hello, legs, uh, and then he says, Oh,
if you wanna take news of me, you'll need a

(29:30):
long lens, which uh is sexual harassment in the workplace. Yeah,
I would say, Box has almost no role in this
movie except for to be a guy who objectifies Vicki
and like is mad that she's dating Bruce Wayne. Like
his only job in the movie is to like criticize
her choice of a boyfriend that's not him, Like that's

(29:51):
because he's supposed to be, Like there's there's the implication
that he's the reporter and she's the photographer. So she
has to go to him to look things up because
I can't look at computer. That's not how talks. But
that's very hard to Quinn actually, But it's weird because
like I know that in the comics are like at
least later maybe after this movie, but they seem to
have turned Vicky Vail into more like an investigative journalist
as opposed to be just a photographer. Not that justice bad,

(30:11):
but like she but yeah, and so it's like it
does feel like they could have just gotten rid of
his character entirely, because it's already like a love triangle
quote unquote. It's a horrible way to phrase it, because
the Joker loves her quote love. He desires her as
an object um and Bruce likes her. And so it's
like this like weird, like, oh, these two men are
after the same woman, even though one of them is
made it clear she has no interest in one of

(30:32):
them completely. So having Robert will be like the fourth
angle of this thing doesn't need to happen at all
completely in this booby, Yeah, which is Alfred might Oh
oh yeah, I'll make them it's like her grandpa. He
also just wanted to like throw in their long focus lens.

(30:56):
That's not an accurate photography joke. Oh, I don't know
enough about along. I looked it up. But can you
also maybe argue that he's an idiot and just thinks
he knows what he's talking about, and it's actually making
stuff up to say I've got a big whole day. Yeah,
I looked it up and brought to make a photo
of it. Broadcast News came out in eighty seven, and

(31:17):
I actually feel like this was just ripping off the
Albert Brooks storyline from Broadcast, because we're going to have
a kind of shitty Albert Brooks in this movie. Yeah. Well,
like everybody, I think like making her character more of
like an investigative journalist would have been a better idea,
because one, it makes her more active, because right now. Basically,

(31:38):
her role in the story is to be the love interest,
because did you know women can only be love interests
in stories according to movies like this. But a couple
of times she goes took good, took good, and then
they try to shoot her. I actually kind I like
laughed out loud at that part. I was like, the
one time she's actually doing her job, they try to

(31:59):
kill and they suppose why they try to kill her
because they're actually trying to take Batman's mask off and
she's trying to take a picture of his face and
then they go kill her. But it's like, why away
you would want her to? Okay, yeah, yeah, she was
trying to add something to the plot for once. Yeah.
Once in a while they try to imply that she

(32:19):
does have like an investigative slant to her, but it's
like always couched in. She's trying to figure out this
guy that she's dating, as opposed to just being like, oh,
Bruce Waine, actually it's kind of a weird, dude, I
should investigate him. It's always like, why didn't he call
me or why did he tell me he was going
out of town when he was Actually she stops him
for a little bit. Yeah, it's argue it's her job.

(32:40):
But also it's like you've got Yeah, it's weird too
in this movie because apparently nobody in Gotham remembers Bruce
Bruce Wayne's parents being murdered because they like find articles
about it and they go, oh, what a weird story
of happening his kid, Like really, no one remembers that
this super rich family was just gunned down in the streets.
At the beginning, no one knows what he looks like,
Like she is like, are you Bruce Wayne or you?

(33:01):
And I like, he does look like almost every other
guy in this movie, but like I was like, he's
like a I thought he was a prominent would yeah,
his picture would be in the paper or something. They
had a party at his house and it looks like
and they're not like people who have out of town,
Like that'd be one thing, but they're literally both working
as for this newspaper in the city. Like really, you

(33:23):
don't know who a head sociolite of your city is,
like would be one thing. Like in um got Man
begins the idea of like Bruce Wayne has been going
for a long time and is back in town, so
that can even make sense to don't we know what?
He looks like he's been going for so long and
he's a kid, but this is not the case, and
he's like charming. He's not like a recluse, Like he's
somebody who has like galas at his house and has
an art collection. And Yeah, my favorite part of Vicky

(33:47):
Vale doing her job in this movie but also still
like being the love interest at the same time is
when after she gets those pictures or like maybe gets
those pictures and they shoot at her, she calls her
editor and she's like of a scoop and he's like
is it hot? And she's like laying on her bed
and he's like it's real hot. That's a weird scene too,

(34:08):
because like that's that That scene happens after Batman has
saved her from the Joker attacking her the art gallery
and she has some pictures of him and then like
he's like, there's one more thing I need from you
and he like throws his arm up. Mere. I'm like,
he just hit her and he guessed her, like what happens?
And then she wakes up on her bed the next day,
So I'm like, is there like a deleted scene that

(34:29):
we didn't see where they totally did it, and then
he like dropped her off or did he just like
knock her out and steal her camera. She talks as
if she's just come five times, it's real hot. Well,
she takes that film and puts it like and stuffs
it in her bron to assume and yeah, So either way,
he like reached down her shirt and stole and she

(34:51):
was probably, I'm guessing, unconscious because she didn't know that
it was gone until she woke up and then checked
her boobs and she's like, oh, the things that I
store in here are missing. Yeah, and she's like the
only momentarily annoyed by it, Like a man who was
supposed to be the superhero knocked her out, felt her up,
and stole her film and had a good reason. And
then she's like still on board, like, oh, yeah, we

(35:12):
gotta call the police because he has a plant. Like
what what? I don't know? Yeah. I do want to
point out that if Bruce Wayne Slash Batman did really
want to do some good for Gotham study City, he
could probably just like spread his wealth around a little
bit more and eliminate a lot of the crime. There's
a there's a comedian in Santancisi named Askatowski who basically

(35:35):
has this whole thing about how like all Bruce Wayne
asked to do was open two factories and he could
solve all the crime problems in he's like a billionaire, right,
like yes, spread the wealth, dude. Yeah, and he literally
just has to give like take all the guys who
are working as thugs for all these supervillains armies and
just give them like nine to five gigs with the
health insurance may probably, but he's like mentally ill and

(35:56):
he's so he makes up a very complicated I read
this very intense Batman theory where it's like the bat
Cave is like Batman is actually an Arkham asylum and
it's like a fight club thing where he's Batman and
the Joker, and it was I hate those things. It
was on this podcast with these like really druly sounding

(36:17):
men and they were just like a men this and
he was insane the whole time. But also it's like,
you know, if you're a guy just running around and
it cost him any superhero movie, it's like, get over yourself. Yeah,
I just hate any fan theory. It's like this isn't
really happening at all, or like these are all connected
in the same everything. It's like that just like I
get it, you're clever. Yeah, it's like just get a job.

(36:38):
Grow up up ad this episode, grow up stop, grow up.
Like I know, there was one version of the Joker
at one point in the comics where like when he
thought Batman was dead, he just like gave up crime
and sort of living a normal life because he no
longer had Batman to like foil against like that. So
it's like, oh, Batman is the problem play. The argument

(37:00):
in Batman begins in Dark Night is that like because
Batman exists, like he helps escalate the crime problem, and
then like because he's there, like the criminals escalate as well.
I'm like yeah, because like Gordon has the whole thing,
Like you got bulletproof vest and then they get arm
a piercing guns, and then you got a guy in
a suit, and then you got this guy in a
clown costume. Like yeah, they're always trying to top each other. Yeah,

(37:21):
But so in Batman, um, yeah, it's just like there's
always things. I'm like, why is she just okay with this?
Like and that's she's getting the better treatment, like as
far as women in this film go, and that's not
saying a lot. I couldn't believe because I don't like,
this wasn't the original movie that I had talked to
you about because I was gonna and You're like, well,
we should do this because of the timing and everything. Oh,

(37:42):
by the way, we are doing this movie right now
because the Lego Batman movies coming out. That's why I
was like, hey, let's do Batman. And I'm so sorry.
I remember like thinking that it was just gonna be
devoid of women. That was going to be the problem
with it. And then when I started watching it, I
hadn't watched it so long. I was like shocked at

(38:03):
how much worse it is than that. Like, so we
talked about Alicia, the woman that he basically like wins
by stealing her from um Christiam is that his name? Christo? Like,
he basically like like they're having an affair, and then
Chris that's why Grissom like kills him. But then he
even acts like when he's killing Grissolm, he like acts like,

(38:23):
how dare you make a woman matter enough to kill me?
But he literally's like he says, like, you're trying to
kill me over a woman, a woman like she's just
so objectified. And then because he like kills Gristom, he
basically gets to like claim her as his rolls with
yeah game, yeah, did you know that you have to

(38:46):
keep dating uh, the side piece that you had been
sucking before whenever he murders your mob boss boyfriend? Did
you know that's how you have to act with your woman?
I would love someone to kill someone else over me
in an extremely thing for thank you. In her defense
as a character, I think that's actually one of the

(39:08):
more realistic things that happens in this movie, only because
but not in a good way, but like in a
psychologically tormented person way, like she's terrified of what Jack
is going to do to her, and it's like broken
because that's why she like she's afraid to leave him,
like and I think it's like he's not just like
your standard like garden variety abuser. He's like literally a
monster who's come back from the dead. So does she

(39:30):
call him daddy at something? He calls himself daddy. He's
like daddy so much? Okay, because I got confused because
she was covered with the masks. I wasn't even sure
who she Yah was. The mask comes off very briefly,
and it's horrifying because you also very yeah she is

(39:51):
she she starts thinking music of the Night and then um, yeah,
so that's like when I was a kid, I don't
think I really realized what happened to her face. Like
I remember she's wearing the man ask and thinking like
she had makeup on or like whatever. And then when
I was leading up to it, I go, oh, I
think he's been hitting her something. And then it's so
much like she has this horrible scar that like he's
clearly like like throwing acid on her face or something

(40:12):
and like burned her. Like he's always trying to like
build up to making two face or something, and he
just like through and it's so jarring. All of a sudden,
I'm like, this is the movie that I watched when
I was like eight. And then the way he casually
it says, she jumped out of window. Oh yeah, he's
like carrying a broken mask around like an omelet without
breaking a few eggs. Yeah, And and he like only

(40:36):
talks about her in like like he talks about it,
calls her like his masterpiece, like a piece of art
that he makes. Like he he's so objectified her that
like when she's dead, he's just like mad, but his
art is gone like as opposed to But and then
like the movie doesn't even show her kill herself, like
don't even give her the agency of having her own
death on screen. It's literally just like a guy carrying
her mask around talking about her to the woman he's

(40:56):
trying to bang now like just a sentence of like
expos I should have, Like he literally says, he's like, oh,
I'm going through a tough time right now. She threw
herself out a windows like all cough day for you, baby, baby?
What didn't you tell me that in earlier here's a
fun thing. The first time or no, I think it's

(41:18):
maybe the second time we see her character on screen,
Alicia Hunt, she's carrying like six shopping bags because you know, hey,
did you know women be shopping? She's just and then
the next time we see her she has other shopping bags.
She's just always out shopping. And she passes out because

(41:39):
she thinks that Jack is dead and he's like, hey,
maybe I'm home whatever, and she's like passes out like
a really good cartoonish thing. Yeah, that's the other thing.
Did you know that women faint all the time because
we're delicate little flowers? And I smiling, salt dude. I
that all that said, I do really enjoy Jack Nicholson

(42:00):
in this movie. He's like, even though his part is
as problematic as you can get, he does a great job.
He does a good job. And the other thing I
really like about this movie is the score it has.
Is it an elphan prince? A lot of prints in

(42:20):
this movie. There is a lot of prints I've played
and guys, real quick, real gu brag. I feel like
I mentioned I played the elbo in high school in
almost every episode, but we played the theme from The
Batman and our spring concert. It's a great name and
I had a sucked it up. I was going, so,

(42:44):
so if anyone's looking for a nova player in the
Los Angeles area, just should men don't play? Yeah? I
got my elbow in my car, right, can you get Yeah?
I used to play the clarinet. We could be in
a band together. We should start a band. I played
trump it, but I didn't I never actually learned how
to play it, and I would just like sit I
would try to. I took lessons, but I never figured

(43:05):
it out really, and I would like go to like
we'd have like recitals or like band concerts, and I
would just sit and like pretend to be playing them
because you couldn't tell because I was in the crowd anyway.
And then like my mom like one day like kind
of figure out that wasn't enjoying it, and she was like,
but you sounded a good thing. I'm like, I wasn't
actually playing. I was just sitting there pretending to push
on the buttons and anyone pay into like if you
spent money on the trumpet and the tricky. I wanted

(43:26):
to play drums, and they just like kind of assigned
you your section, and like I didn't want to just
play any random instrument and the drummer. They gave us
instruments literally like the sorting hat. Like they would just
be like, you know, if you were cute and a
little girl, they'd like, you play the flute, or if
you're really cute, you played the pickle up what it
was weird and then they were like, well girl, and

(43:48):
which true but also hurtful at the time. So this
movie is interesting. We're talking about the Joker like the
Nicholas's performance, because I I had always kind of my
head combined this this Joker with like the season Romero
Old bat Man Joker as being a little bit less
vile and a little bit more just like funny and
weird and goofy. But boy, he is a statistic sociopathic monster.

(44:08):
Like he is so much darker than I remember him being.
And it's interesting because I actually even think he might
be a little bit more dark than Heath Ledger's Joker
because he ledger Joker is a sociopath and he definitely
has he's like I guess maybe he's pretty messed up
because does put that bomb in that guy's stomach and
he also makes that like that boat try to kill
half the people ever, But his thing is so much

(44:29):
more psychological mind games and like this like agent of chaos,
whereas this Joker feels like he likes to personally inflict
harm on specific people and that it's like so much
creepy and it's like I actually like research a little
bit for this podcast trying to figure out when that
became the Joker, because that's I feel like that's establishes
who he is now, Like I think the Jared Leto

(44:49):
Joker was very much like that, and like they then
they made him very abusive to Harley Quinn, and if
you look at like even in the old Batman animated series,
he's very abusive. And it's it's weird because I know,
like he's won't do a lot of evolutions in the
comics from being like he started off as a killer,
and then he kind of became more of a ridiculous,
clowney character, and then around seventies and eighties he went
back to being this dark character because the book was

(45:10):
getting dark. But it's weird because, like I as a
comic fan, I guess maybe like now that I've actually
dealt with in real life the ramifications of what like
a sociopath does to the people around them, Like I
I've I never dealt with somebody who's like cutting into
somebody or like but like psychologically tormenting people. And it
has so much harder to enjoy a movie now where

(45:31):
someone's like really over the top doing it because I'm like,
oh God, this brings up a lot of thoughts about yeah,
not even like I mean it's a little it's not
even like a full on trigger it's just more like, oh,
I don't want I don't I can't escape in this anymore.
It's like yeah, yeah, you're like, this isn't fun to watch.
This just reminds me of things that I didn't like. Yeah, exactly, Like, oh,
I remember a lot of my friends having a really
hard time for a while because of things like this

(45:53):
like this. Yeah, um, all right, good. I know the
other thing I was gonna say, the wonderful trope of
a man having to save a woman over and over.
Oh my god, she's so much a dams On the
stress for someone who should be like she's like a
war area photographer, and yes, somehow she can't keep herself right.

(46:16):
Oh yeah, I love the scene where he's going through
her portfolio. He's like this sucks. This sucks. Oh look
a body like I like that. I'm d d is
trying to tell you how dark he is. It's so
brooding because this was like supposed to be like the
greedy Batman reboot, but it's like extremely campy, but everyone
is also horny. Like that seems like it's not really

(46:38):
like that greedy. Like there's some art deco and everyone
wants to funck and like that's dark and I do
like the Vicky Vale has sex with Bruce Wayne on
the first date. I'm just like, yeah, girl, you can do.
You want it, you go get it and no one
will think any less of you. Then he kind of
blows around, he does treat her like a dick, and

(47:00):
and the scene when he like goes to apologize to
her and like come out as batman. Uh, this really
fun thing happens where she's like calling him out for
being a dick and like you lied to me, blah
blah blah, and then he pushes her down onto the couch.
It's like, I'm just gonna need you to shut up
right now, because did you know that when a man

(47:22):
needs to express his feelings and be vulnerable, he has
to commit an act of domestic abuse. First, He's like
all right now and pushed you. I've told you to
shut up, I've yelled at you. Now i can tell
you that I'm beat and then do it. He like
he talks all tough. That's like he has a sudden
moment of like machismo and barbado, like I'm gonna push

(47:44):
you down and tell you what's up. And then he
just like flounders through like you know people that you
know when a person is like doing a thing and
then you put on paratites and you fight villains and
you know, you know, and people do stuff like that.
Like it's like something like, why why make you be
this dick ish, like domineering guy for a second if
you're not even gonna do it? And then she kind
of drops it, like she there's like that line where
she's like, can't we ever love each other? It was like,

(48:08):
grow up, Kim, Vicky, whatever, Okay, oh we haven't. I
didn't know if you were like saving this for a
special moment. But the scene at the end where you know,
Vicky gets a look in her eyes. She's in the
Joker's arm and and I'm like, this is her moment.
She's going to do something great. And then what she

(48:29):
does is almost gives him a blow chump so Batman
can whack him. I was like, no, that was your chance.
And then she just starts going like yeah, she's like
kissing his arms, but she's in shirt and I love purple.
And then yeah, like sinks down to like I guess,

(48:51):
pretend to start giving him a She's just very gingerly
kissing his shirt and you could just tell you was
rock hard. Uh No, I was not saving that for
special moment. And I'm glad you brought the almost forgot
about it. He like falls for it so hard. Yeah, yeah,

(49:17):
and then she lunches it and like, I love purple,
and he's like A very similar scene happens in Aladdin
where Jasmine starts seducing Jafar because she knows that Aladdin
is there to again go rescue her, because did you
know women can't fend for themselves ever. They always have
to be saved as far as kind of hot And
it's a it's also like that same mentality that always

(49:44):
makes like bad comic artists draw women with like no
armor whatsoever. And it's like and they always go, oh, well,
there's skindily clad, because that way, in the heat of battle,
men will be so turned on with their bodies they
won't be able to fight them. Like. It's like that
is a frequent argument. Like never you see like a
female character who has like exposed chest plate or like
just has like like like a push up bram made

(50:06):
on a metal or whatever. There's always some argument that
it's like, oh, it's designed to distract men, and like
everyone's like, you know that need a battle, Like no
one's the way thinking about their dicks at that moment, right,
Like they're all like pretty like repped up and ready
to fight. You're not gonna stop and go, oh, well,
I want to have sex best person, so I will
stop fighting. Like I'm all for using men's horny nous
against them, but the battlefield is not the place. It's
probably not gonna work for considering these plots, we have

(50:28):
this whole like, oh, in the middle of of you
having your victory, I'm going to suddenly seduce you, like
like really, he's like holding her hostage in a bell
tower after being pursued by Batman, and he's probably like, yeah,
I mean your job is to blow me, so let's
do it. Like I love you, do love purple, so
let's do this. Like like she makes a whole and

(50:49):
then Batman says something quickly, dance with the devil in
the Pale moon, Like it's just just a creepy thing
to be like, oh, hey, here's the thing that you
said to my parents when you killed them. I'm gonna say, well,
my girlfriend's getting all grandy on you, right, and very
like a very long thing to say before you hit someone.
He could have, you know, maybe moved. That part of
this movie bugs me a lot because it's just like

(51:09):
an example of how this is not very good storytelling.
Because Joker, I think it's in Vicky Vale's apartment, he's like,
do you ever dance with the Devil and the Pale
moon Light? As he's like holding a gun to Bruce Wayne,
He's like, what did you say? He's like, Oh, it's
just something I say to all of my prey. First
of all, it's not because we haven't seen this happen
on screen yet, so what are you talking about? And

(51:29):
then it doesn't do that and doesn't yeah yeah, and
then they flashback the one time they said, so the
flashback happens after that, uh, and then only then do
we realize how that why that is significant. So it's
just like, no, you gotta be a better screenwriter, dude, Like,
this isn't good story It's also that's one of the
things that that's not even from the comics, Like it

(51:50):
is not the Joker that killed Bruce Wayne's parents in
the comics. That's what I think people were real mad
about when they like, did I think for this like
movie isolated, it makes sense because otherwise, like what connects
Batman and the Joker besides the fact that they're like
both horny but not in love with Kim Banzon. But

(52:10):
I don't know, Yeah, it's just it's just gross. The
Joker also had that like weird long dick gun that
he pulled out of his pants at one point, Like
that's not a useful weapon. Yeah, I always love that
as a kid, though I don't know why I think
I wanted that, like and then like I think it
doesn't even have the bang flag at the end of
it at some point or like yeah, uh, well, back

(52:33):
to um, what women are wearing in comic book movies.
There are three at least three different times where Vicky
Vale is wearing high heels that she has to take
off because she's either fleeing or just needing to move
about more comfortably. And sure, women can wear whatever they want,

(52:54):
but high heels were designed by men and the patriarchy
to slow women down. Men want to chase them and
assault with them. I'm guessing, and I don't know that
that's what happened, but like, these are not sensible rex
and heels so let's not act like I'm also wearing
my high heeled playboy sneakers. Today's I'm also wearing my

(53:15):
high heeled boots. But just like, hey, please attack us.
I could, but there's a heel, Well kill it, we are.
I just think that if she knows that there's a
joker around, maybe wear some more run away for really popular.

(53:38):
If you're an investigative photographer, you wouldn't You probably wouldn't
wear that. Probably, like I totally get it when she's
at the like the Wayne Mansion for the gala and
she's wearing her weird prawn dress wedding dress things, yea,
the poop sleeves, it's like a white dress, and any
other party would be like, you're overdressed, like you look
like Glinda the Good Witch. We all. We haven't even

(54:02):
talked about my favorite scene, which is when Batman asks
Vicky Vale how much she weighs, which that alone does
not bother me, because people have this whole thing where
it's like, never ask a woman how much you weighs,
Never ask a woman how old she is, because that
basically just implies that if a woman weighs too much,
or if she's too old, she should be ashamed of

(54:23):
herself and she should feel shame, which is not true
at all obviously. Um, but what bothers me is that
after that, after like the whole fight scene, and he
comes back around and he's like, oh, you weigh a
little bit more than a hundred and eight, which number one, Yeah,
most adults do. That would be horrible if she yes

(54:47):
to weigh to body shame her for no reason. Uh.
And three, if she did lie about her weight, it's
only because women have to adhere to such impossible uh
standards for beauty. Batman, why don't you take on the
patriarchy instead of the joker? Seriously? Again, if you could
open two factories and you could also take that, you

(55:07):
can open a news network that focuses on when in
centric issue, why don't you start a magazine? Bruce? Yeah,
so yeah, that that was my favorite thing to happen
in the movie. Yeah. It's like sometimes I'm like, do
you even like her? Like why are you? You know?
He doesn't treat her especially well, either as Batman or

(55:29):
as Bruce Wayne. Now, Yeah, like he lies to her,
he blows her off, he called like, he calls her fat,
Like I was just like, why do you guys, Vicky,
come on, you can do better. Seriously, she must because
she's not back in the sequel. So true. True. She
just finds it off someone someone nice to like and
kill Bill whenever she was dating that murder Bill guy.

(55:53):
And then she's like, you know what, I'm just going
to settle down with this record store owner in Texas.
Like well, because she has a baby, right, and you
just have to put everything on hold whenever your children
can't be an assassin when you have a baby. I
like it to have somebody who I like actually killed
a lot, but somebody who's like an international assassin. They're like, oh,

(56:13):
but I can't read. The kid is one I gets
like she like flipped but still Yeah, those were all
the things that I uh found interesting, Like the Joker
and Batman are like bickering all the time. And it's
like a part where he's like, you made me, well
you killed my parents, so you made me first, so

(56:34):
you made me and then I made It's like this,
I'm like, really, no one at the script was like,
maybe we should do in our pass in this scene,
like let's go ahead and do this again. I could
just save some time because the movie is like a
little bit too long. It's a little over two hours. Yeah,
and then there's no need for that. No, No, although
I do the joker is fun when he's not abusing women,
like when he's which is that true, not a lot

(56:54):
of sociopaths, but like when he comes in and he's
like giving out money and like dancing in the street
and like like stances. I love him, And I just
like like when the when he's dancing the money, like
the ideas that he's like taking over this this like
bicentennial festival that we go cancel, and I just like
there's apparently no actual police force in this city because

(57:15):
like he's not he's just rolling down the street with
giant balloons handing out money, and no cops are like
shooting the balloons or doing anything to stop him. And
they don't know there's gas in the balloons yet, so
it's like there's actually no, it doesn't make any sense why,
Like the whole city is like, yeah, this guy just
murdered a bunch of people and it's been terrorizing us,
and it's like gone on TV and being like, hey,

(57:36):
I'm poisoning all of your beauty products. Watch out for me,
but there are six cops on the scene who are
willing to shoot it. Thinking yeah, like there they show
up at very strange moment. Well those cops are those
his weird security guards, I thought, I think I thought
there are cops too. I'm like, wait, no, this I
maybe it might be his cops. In this movie. There's

(57:57):
a bunch of weird like henchmen that it tacked Batman
like one just feels like a bunch of flips across
the bell tower and loved the flipping. He was cool. Um,
but I mean yeah, whenever Jack Nicholson was dancing, I
was like, I'm I'm in and then you would, you know,
hit a lady and I'd be like, oh this, That's

(58:18):
why I don't like this guy. I love a dancing
man though. That's why Harley Quinn needs to be a
poison ivy and said a junker because uh, I wonder, well,
I wonder how lego Batman is kind of fair in

(58:39):
terms of its treatment of it, ripped down the enter
inequalities of it. As of yet, I haven't seen one
that exists in the previous I literally only see Will
Arnett's Batman and the Alfred that's like the only characters
that seemed to be in the previews, so I got
to rewatch the trailer. Is there another female character in

(58:59):
the Lego movie besides um? Olivia Wilde's like cool? Like
there's the cat unicorn thing? Right? Is that a that? Uh?
What's her face? Voices? Who's in community? Alison Bree? Yeah,
and it's also like the off screen little sister that
has to also be a little play with toys, Like

(59:20):
that's the only other I can't think of any other
female character. Yeah, let's do the Lego movie next. Have
you seen it? I watched it with the baby ones
well because all right, none of it my friends. I
tried to watch on the plane and I couldn't do it,
And then I watched it again later on HBO and
I liked it more. But like I think, being right
out in front of it on the plane, it was

(59:41):
like it was just too fast and like, okay, I
can't hand this right now. I can't watch stuff on planes. Yeah,
so Batman, Um, does anyone else have any final thoughts
or closing words? This movie hates women, like it really does.
Like every everyone it dies is a woman, except for
like Bruce's a couple of guys in the beginning, like
the mob guys who get killed and Bruce's dad, but

(01:00:03):
like everyone the Joker, the guy who gets like burnt
to a crisp and like doesn't ever think to maybe
take his hand away from Joker's handshake, and he's like, no,
I'm just gonna let myself burn to death. He was
freaked out. Okay, we're in the Jokers, Like I'm glad
you're dead. Yeah, because he killed him, Like we all
get that, you're glad you're he's dead, Like why would
we not think he was glad that he was dead?

(01:00:24):
Can I read Tim Burton's quote about white people that's
bad because it's like, oh, it's really bad, comically bad. Yeah, okay,
so this was after the Miss Peregrines. Does anyone see
his movie's name or am uh? Nowadays people are talking
about it more, it meaning racial equality. But things either

(01:00:46):
call for things or they don't. I remember back when
I was a child watching The Brady Bunch and they
started to get all politically correct, like okay, let's have
an Asian child and a black I used to get
more offended by that than just I grew up watching
black exploitation movies, and I said that's great. I didn't

(01:01:06):
go like, Okay, there should be more white people in
these movies. I was just like, I can't imagine him
saying that, first of all, like not stuttering, because that's
just like such an insane He's just so sheltered and weird,
like congratulations on your easy life. Yeah, someone pointed out

(01:01:28):
and I'm just talking about it when that movie came out.
How Like, for as much as Tim Burton like prides
himself on being this director who writes about like films,
movie about outsiders and unique weird, they're all really just
a version of Tim Burton. Like everything. Every sissor Hands
literally is tim Burton like with like scissory hands, like weird,
I'm weird. What doesn't anyone want to kiss me? He

(01:01:50):
eventually found someone, but because he found well, he had
one thing you cheated on and then one that left him.
So let's talk about whether or not this movie passes
the Petel tests. It doesn't. I don't think there's even
a scene where two women with speaking roles are even

(01:02:12):
in the same room together. I don't think so there
know that. I think that Vicky and then the girl
with the family the Opera phase are both in the
same scene. At one point they both speak, but not
to each other. What seems that in the art gallery
when the Jokers like showing her oh, and she's like,
I thought you were going to let me watch you
improve your art. Yeah, right, but she only talks to

(01:02:33):
him because I was like, maybe it'll But now it fails.
It is a big fat fail. Yeah, it doesn't pass
the PACTO test. I bet it doesn't at all. I
bet it because which one Batman Forever Batman Up Forever,
I think only has one woman, and it has two
women that I can think about top of my head.
One of them is um Nicole Kidman's character who's like

(01:02:56):
a psychotherapist. And it's also this lady who's like the
gossip alumnus for for Gotham, and she's in both bat
Man Forever and Batman and Robin and she's like, we're
talking to Bruce Wayne. Bruce's God's most eligible bachelor, like
that kind of lady. And then um El McPherson is
Bruce Wayne's girlfriend in Batman and Robin. And then Uma
Thurman is that actually might only because it has bat

(01:03:18):
Girl and poison ivy might be seen where those two
are are fighting and talking about it. I think even then,
I think that line is the line where like, well,
I tell a lady phrases I pulled the pluck. So
I think that she's still talking to back girl about
Batman and Robbins's shoe. The fan of the operat absolutely
passes it. All the ballerinas are chatting all the time

(01:03:40):
about every witch thing. We should talk about very we can.
I'm very confused about, Uh, your movie tastes sometimes here's
the thing, it's bad. Oh. The way we conclude every
episode is to rate the movie in the context of
its treatment of female characters, on a scale of zero

(01:04:01):
to five nipples. I'll go first. I give this movie
one half of a nipple because uh, and and and
it's the nipple from I think George Clooney's costume. Yeah,
the shue Locker nip, the Schuemocker nip. So it's that
one that movie, Like the nipple and like butt shot

(01:04:24):
bat suit thing. That's the very first set of shots
in that movie, like like there's like literally nothing happening,
and you just get a bunch of really close up
shots of like everything homrotic about their suits. I kind
of like that that they're sort of objectifying those men
male body parts. There's even like really a shot where
they just like they both had their own version of
it where they just put their butt towards the camera

(01:04:44):
and like you just like like the it's like it's
like a fine butt shot. Nice. I have to I
was gonna say, I have to rewatch those, but do
I don't know. I think I think if you went
on on YouTube you can probably find just that that
sequence real quick. Charles also directed Kiss from a Row
music video by Seal with great video. Actually, I think

(01:05:07):
that maybe one of the first movies I saw his
was Falling Down, which wasn't an interesting premise but not
well executed. Yeah you heard it here first falling Down, Jamie.
What do you rate this movie on a scale of
one to I give it Michael Keaton's left nipple, which

(01:05:27):
I imagine is hairless and has never been hard. So
one one nipple. Yeah, okay, how about you? Ring? I
think I will give it a nipple half nipple as well,
because at least it has women in it and on
them one of them has a job. Like those two

(01:05:49):
women that have jobs three because there's three news, there's
two newscasters and there's Vicky Vale. So on supermodels they
have jobs too, that's but they're not really in it,
like they're only in as corpses, so I don't count
them like they're literally in it as photos of dead women.
And then there's also weird creepy scene with jokers like
talking about his products and he has like a pictures
of their dead body with the with the mask and
we love that joker, which is so creepy. Um So

(01:06:11):
I can't get one than a half nips and I
think the nip that I'm gonna go with is um
boy whose nipple don't want to give it. I'm wanna
give a Billy d Williams nipple because he gets the shaft.
And later because the fear beloved Joel Schumacher to size,
we can't have Billy the Williams by two face, he
has to replace some with with Tommy Lee Jones. He's like, oh,
we need a white southern guy to play this. Thank
you for calling him my Joel Shippmark. That did feel right, well, Riley,

(01:06:37):
where can people find you online? Follow you on Twitter
or stuff like that? Yeah? You can find me on Twitter.
I'm at Rice Silverman on Twitter and i am Riley
Silverman dot com. And I have a new podcast myself
that's coming out. It may not be out by time
this episode airs, but it will be soon. And it's
called The Puppy Episode. And it is a a podcast
that is a retrospective of the Ellen Degenerous sitcom from

(01:06:59):
the nineties where You Kids Gay. So it's three queer
ladies talking about what it's like being queer and twenty
years later and what it was like when when we
were younger in that show came on, and like what
it's like since then. So it's it's interesting, I think,
and it should be fun to do. You're excited for that. Yeah,
that's cool, Jamie. You can find me on the internet
at Hamburger Fun. You can find me at Joel Shoemaker's

(01:07:20):
house outside waiting. I want I have to mention. I
write for a podcast called International Waters. I always forget
to promote because I'm on the podcast, but I write. Yeah.
Dave Holmes the host, and it's a it's a interact.
It's a international panel show that de picts American comedians
versus British comedians and a pop culture about a royale,
and I write for it. I'm writing for about nine
months and I love writing for it, but I always

(01:07:40):
forget to promote it one one shows, but it's a
great show, so listen to it. It's fun twice someoneth.
Sorry I mean to interrupt your talk. Um, I oh,
I have a cartoon up on Cafe every week as
well on They're very funny. Thank you all about scissoring.
Thank you. They have been about sin sorry in the past.
Um you in Hey, you should follow the Bechdel Cast

(01:08:06):
like and subscribe and so you can rate us on iTunes.
We're on also, I think Google now in addition to iTunes,
shout out over there and you can email us too
if you want, if you have any like, I don't know,
questions or comments or contributions. Pictures you drew us, pictures
you drew us scissoring together. I was going to say

(01:08:29):
I could make one if you're I've never been more
comfortable of anything in my entire life. O um. And
you can follow me at Caitlin Toronto, and I think
that is it. Riley, thank you so much for being
here and talking about Batman with us. And h have
a good time. Everyone go see Lego. Batman also thinks

(01:08:52):
panties sponsor us. We need your sponsorship if you want.
It's hard. Yeah, I didn't want you said thanks. I
thought you said thanks. Pantings. Thanks to underwear for making
me not You're there for us, the period panties. Thanks.
My closing thing is give Fami in the opera another chance.
You will not regret it. Cool. Cool, but