El Camino Christmas with Cerise Castle

On this episode, Caitlin, Jamie, and special guest Cerise Castle take a trip to El Camino to chat about El Camino Christmas. Listen to Cerise's podcast, A Tradition of Violence! And grab tickets for our upcoming tour at linktr.ee/bechdelcast 

(This episode contains spoilers)

For Bechdel bonuses, sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com/bechdelcast

Follow @cerisecastle on Twitter. While you're there, you should also follow @BechdelCast, @caitlindurante, and @jamieloftusHELP

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Attention Bechtel cast listeners. It's me Caitlin and and me
Jamie and guess what what? Wait? Shall we say it together? One? Two, three,
We're going on to tour. That'll sink in the ad
eventually imagine that, but with more enthusiasm because we're very excited.

(00:25):
We haven't gone on to work in three human years.
That's twenty one dog years. Wow, that's so true. I
am really good at math. So and put a pen
and dog because that's going to come back in a
few seconds. But for now, we're going to just tell
you some preliminary facts about the tour. It's on the

(00:46):
West coast of the United States, so we're going everyone else.
So we're starting in Los Angeles Ever heard of it?
With a show on January at the Alesion Theater the
movie Get and that's where the Dog comes back in
because it's and it is a dog coming of age movie.
It is a goofy movie. We've got been getting requests

(01:09):
from this since the beginning, and it's finally time to
cover a goofy movie. We can't wait, a coming of
age dog movie. Can you believe it? Can you believe it?
Then we are going to be scooting scooting on up
on foot I believe Caitlin and I will be hiking. Oh,
that's why there's a bit of a gap all the
way to San Francisco for San Francisco Sketch Festival. We've

(01:32):
done it before. If you've been before, come out again.
That's on February one. And where is that, Caitlin. That's
at the Gateway Theater in San Francisco, and we are
covering George of the Jungle. Sorry, sorry, sorry, George, George
George Jungle. Uh. And then guess what, We're continuing to

(01:54):
scoot on up to Portland, Oregon. We will be at
Curious Comedy Theater and a theater we love. We're doing
two shows in Portland. The first is with the wonderful
Sarah Marshall of You're Wrong About and You Are Good.
We're going to be covering the Goonies. And then at
nine pm, Caitlin, what did tell me more? Okay? Also,

(02:16):
this is on February twod oh ship, did I not
say that? Groundhog Day? But don't think about the movie
groundhog Day because that has nothing to do with our tour.
We covered that, we did it already. Sorry bitch. Six
years ago. Okay, so first shows at seven pm with
Sarah Marshall the Goonies. Second show is at nine pm.
It is a surprise mystery guest and a surprise mystery movie.

(02:42):
It's going to be a banger. I'm very excited. Come
to one, come to both, come to both. None of
my business, but it will be different, different shows. And
then finally we are scooting on up, continuing our journey
on foot to Seattle. And on February five, we're doing
a show at Laughs Comedy Club and we are covering

(03:05):
the Goonies again because guess what, it's hard work to
do a tour and it's a lot to do a
bunch of different movies. So well, yeah it's we're doing
Pacific Northwest Classics. And so if you're in Seattle, come
on up for for the Goonies in Seattle. And yeah,
we're really excited to go. We're really excited to see
everybody again. Um, we will have merch for you. We

(03:27):
sell exclusive posters and stuff like that, designed by Jamie,
the one and only designed by Mrs Jamie herself. Yeah,
we can't wait to see you and hang out. And uh,
it's been eighty four years since it's been eighty four years,
really makes you think. So what you're gonna do is

(03:48):
go to our link tree, which is it's always so
weird to say the link of link tree because it's
l I n K t R dot E E flash
by actual cast and that's where each of the ticket
links will be to buy tickets for our shows. We
love you so much. We're really excited. Get your tickets now,

(04:09):
because they are actually genuinely going fast. Usually when I
say that, I'm lying, but this time I'm really not.
This time it's true, And yeah, brag. Our tickets are
moving fast, so you're gonna want to grab them soon,
all right, and we'll see you there, West Coast, see
you there. On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if
movies have women and um, are all their discussions just

(04:32):
boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy?
Zef in best start changing it with the Bell Cast.
Knock knock, Hello, Hi, it's me your son Jamie. Oh um,
what I don't have any children. I'm Tim Allen and

(04:53):
I'm mad. Yeah your TV and films, Tim, Tim Allen,
I'm your son. Okay, Well, I what do you want
this is going. Well. There. You know, what I want
is maybe narratively unclear, So I think a relationship with you.
I'm not really quite sure. It's going to change several
times over the next seventy five minutes, but we'll sort

(05:15):
of land on. It has something to do with your
feelings from Vietnam. We'll figure it out. I think I
want a relationship with you, even though you're horrible. And
also I want a nice little son. I want a
nice little son on my own. Cool. Welcome to the
Bechtel Cast. I think that went extraordinarily well. My name

(05:36):
is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Darante, and this
is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional
feminist lens, using the Bechtel test simply as a jumping
off point. What is the Bechtel test, though, Jamie, my son, Well,
I guess that what we just did technically didn't I don't.
Actually it's complicated. Actually you identified as Tim Alan, so

(05:59):
it doesn't pass. Okay. We use it as a jumping
off point for discussion, not the be all and end
all of anything, including this show. But the version that
we use requires that two people of a marginalized gender
with names speak to each other about something other than
a man for more than two lines of dialogue, and
it should be narratively impactful. Ideally, this movie, this movie

(06:24):
is a head scratcher in uh, more ways than one.
Are there women talking? Yes, what's going on? I'm never clear.
We're not sure. Horny mom when horny mom and I
was like, that's her mom there. I thought they were roommate.
That's her mom. That's her mom. I do love a
good horny mom character call me, you know, throw me

(06:46):
in a garbage can. But a good old fashioned horny mom.
I'm laughing. I support it, but not at this one,
because this movie is horrible. We have an amazing guest
to talk about this incredible piece of cinema. Yes, a
returning guest from the episode on what is that movie?
Even called Den of Thieves starting the Phantom of the

(07:07):
Opera himself. Yes. Uh. She's a reporter and writer of
the investigative series entitled A Tradition of Violence The History
of Deputy Gangs in the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department,
which was published in Knock l A. She's also the
host of the podcast also called a tradition of violence.
It's Sires Castle, welcome back. Hey, thanks so much for

(07:32):
having me, and thanks so much for indulging in copaganda.
There's truly no one we would rather talk to add
on this specific cursed subject. Absolutely. So. The movie we're
covering today is called El Camino Christmas from But before

(07:54):
we get into the discussion of that, Sires, we just
wanted to talk to you about your investigative work, your podcast. Yeah,
specifically about like adapting this amazing series you wrote for
knock into podcast format. So for people who haven't started
listening to a Tradition of Violence, set us up. What's

(08:16):
the show about? Yeah, so, the show is about these
secret criminal gangs that are operating inside of the Los
Angeles County Sheriff's Department. I've been investigating these deputy gangs
for the past two years, and I have uncovered twenty
different criminal gangs inside of the l A County Sheriff's Department.

(08:39):
They're at different locations throughout Los Angeles County, UM sometimes
even operating at multiple locations. One single gang they have
killed at least nineteen people. The figures are probably a
lot higher than that, but it's incredibly difficult to hunt
out a lot of this and for me and because

(09:01):
of UM laws surrounding disclosures around police information. UM, but
we do know they've killed at least nineteen people. Um.
All of those people were people of color, seven of
them were in the midst of a mental health crisis.
And the podcast is digging into who exactly these deputy
gangs are, where they come from, and why it is

(09:21):
they do what they do. It's like, it's truly like
the original series at Knock is so incredible as well
and has had um for listeners who don't live in
the l A area or are unaware of it has
had such a huge impact on l A and I
think like across the country and beyond of just your

(09:44):
incredible work uncovering this and opening people's eyes to what
is going on publicly funded right in front of them.
So for the podcast, UM, I guess, how did how
did you go about expanding on that work and like
what were your kind of goals in or like, because
it was coming out over a year later, what has

(10:06):
it been like kind of bringing this work to this format.
It's been a lot of fun. It's been really great
being able to put a lot of these stories in
audio form and having people be able to hear directly
from the people that have been impacted by this deputy
gang violence. There's a lot of stuff that I've uncovered

(10:26):
in the year and a half since publishing the series
that are also included in this podcast. For example, UM,
when I wrote the initial series, I only knew about
eighteen deputy gangs, but since then, I've been able to
uncover two more UM with the help of some really
great UM sources that I've been able to develop. And
the really unfortunate part is that I have been able

(10:50):
to connect a lot more acts of deputy violence to
these gangs, which is really awful and tragic to see
play out in data. But at the same time, it
also confirms for a lot of people that have been
talking about this for generations, things that they've been saying
and no one has really been paying attention to. There

(11:12):
are a lot of things like that that have been
confirmed by research. I was reading yesterday a lot about weathering,
which is a phenomenon that happens to Black Americans as
a result of stress. It's these tiny little legions that
you get on the brain, and that's just because of
having to deal with racism constantly, and it means that

(11:37):
you are a lot more susceptible to disease, You're a
lot more likely to die prematurely or more susceptible to
things like Alzheimer's that kind of thing. And it's really
unfortunate and it's so important. I think, like, it's really
horrible to like know something like that, but you know
how many people have told you like, wow, like dealing

(11:57):
with this stuff is really getting to me. It's really
having an effect on my health. And I think it's
so important to have things that you can point to
to say, yes, this is true, this has been confirmed
by research. God, that is fascinating and so upsetting and
that I I've never heard of that term before, Caitlin.
Had you heard about it? No, I wasn't familiar that.

(12:18):
I'm always like, yeah, always really fascinated and about how
willing people are to dismiss how the pressure and like
constant anxiety of racism has absolutely no effect on your body.
Like it's just completely absurd. So what what can we're

(12:39):
going to be um directing our listeners to the podcast?
Is there um aside from to starting at the beginning,
is there anything in particular that you're like, you know,
happy to have out there on on this run, Um,
that listeners can kind of jump over to what I'm
really excited about in this podcast and something that I
didn't have a lot of in my series, UM, which

(13:01):
is kind of surprising, Um that this happened, and I'm
really grateful for it, is the voices of police officers.
A lot of the skeptics that I get are like, well,
you know, of course, the families of people that have
been you know, murdered by police officers, of course they
would say these things. But it's been really exciting for

(13:22):
me to get so many deputies and people ranking higher
than deputy to sit down with me and say, yeah,
this is true. I want to tell you about my
experiences with these deputy gangs. I want to tell you
about the time I was invited to join a deputy gang.
I want to tell you about the time that I
saw a deputy gang member commit a murder, cover up

(13:44):
a crime, threatened me, dartned me with death, and it's
it's been it's so powerful to hear those stories and
get that confirmation from the inside, because you really can't
talk about this without having someone on the inside to
really explain it because it is so insular and so
seek sort of. And it's also really great, um to
be able to throw that back at the haters and say,

(14:05):
you know what, like actually a lot of cops really
support the work that I'm doing, and you know a
lot of cops think the department should be completely scrapped
as well. God, it's it truly is like, I mean,
you're the original series is incredible, but getting to like here,
you know, like you've you've built it out in such

(14:26):
like a beautiful way that just Yeah, hearing some of
the audio that you've collected, both in interviews and just
like source from other places in this series is like
it just brings a whole new dimension to how fucking
infuriating and deeply illegal everything going on. Is. It's one
thing to read it and another thing to hear it. Um.
And we on the Becto cast famously don't read, so

(14:48):
an audio medium is really helpful for us. I can't lie. Yeah,
the original series, I did have to have my computer
read it to me like a tradition of violence. Um.
But uh and then that for like a couple of hours.
But I think I took it in. I gotta try that.

(15:09):
It's actually a really maddening experience. It's to hear your
own words read with no emotion back out to you. Um,
it's interesting. Try you should try. So you know, everyone,
we're gonna be linking to a tradition of violence the
podcast in the original series on knock l a in

(15:30):
the description. But um, and thank you for talking to
us about it series. Um, and for the rest of
this episode, we're gonna have some fun with some of
the weirdest copaganda these eyes have ever seen. El Camino Christmas?
Was this a Netflix original? Yeah? Okay, it feels like that. Um, okay,

(15:53):
so El Comino Christmas. It is a seventeen movie directed
by David E. Talbert, who seems to only direct Netflix
Christmas movies. So I was like, okay, so he's not
a cop guy. He's a Christmas guy. Didn't expect that.
He's also directed Almost Christmas and Jingle Jangle a Christmas Journey,

(16:14):
so he's a bit of a Christmas lad. It's written
by Oh, I mean shocking that people put their names
on this, someone named Christopher Christopher Wayner and then also
Theodore Melfi, who had previously written and directed hidden Figures.
I'm like, how do we get from A to B here?

(16:38):
Sure it's and it's starring I mean kind of kind
of only all hitters. Uh someone named Luke Grimes? Anyone
knew who that was? I didn't know who that was?
Sure did not. Vincent din Afrio. Dak Shepherd of podcast fame.
His wife famously loves the Sheriff's Department. Just want to
put that out there. Wait, can you give us quick

(17:00):
context for our listeners? Yes? Quit contacts on Dak Shepherd. Um,
so last Christmas? I believe this was actually around the holidays. Um,
his wife? I'm sorry? Who played? I can't remember her name?
Is it Kristin Kristin Bell? Kristin but almost like Kristen Smart.
That is not his wife, Kristen Bell. His wife, Kristen

(17:23):
Bell took it upon herself to go visit deputies at
the Lancaster Sheriff station and post about it on social
media how much she loves and supports the Los Angeles
County Sheriff's Department. So Kristin Bell, also known as Veronica Mars,
huge supporter of corrupt law enforcement departments. How absolutely fucking

(17:47):
vile of her. I I forgot about that, but it's
like I feel like she's very emblematic of like she's like,
I'm a liberal, I'm with her, but also the Sheriff's
department like I'm with him, I'm with bea wava right right.
And they did not see any gap in this logic.
I didn't make the Dacks connection. So we've got Das,

(18:11):
We've got the dad from that seven D show, yes,
and we've got Jessica Alba, We've got Jimmy Oh yang ye,
and of course we have Mr Marks Communist Manifesto, Wikipedia himself,
Tim Allen, A K. Scott Calvin, Santa Claus Ak, Tim Allen.

(18:31):
Tim Allen is like a known like right wing fucking weirdo.
But so I wasn't shocked that he was in this movie.
But I was also like, Tim, your Christmas cannon? Why, like,
must you smear the only thing about you that I liked,
which was Santa Claus one? Well, El Camino Christmas. There's

(18:53):
also another can I say another fun fact? Tim Mallan? Please? Yes?
Did you know that Tim Allen is a federal informant
and he was convicted for cocaine trafficking and he was
able to get out of it and start a Hollywood
career because he cooperated with the Feds and turned on
everyone and that's why he's a movie star. So lots

(19:17):
of ties to law enforcement with this guy cast. I'm
just saying, the Tim Allen cocaine saga like never ceases
to amaze me. Of like how and also how like
publicly available that information always was. That wasn't like something
that came out later in his career. I think he
like talked about it in his stand up at one point,

(19:37):
like he was famously a police informant, and everyone was like,
let's put him in a children's movie, let's do that,
and then let's put him in another because Buzzing and
then Home Improvement, Oh my god, he's a piece of
sh it. And and bizarrely, on the Betel Cast this

(19:58):
holiday season, we are covering who Tim Allen joints because
Grace Freud is returning to cover the Santa Claus mini series.
So yes, and then no more Tim, No more Tim.
This is I'm putting my foot down. I've had enough
of this Tim Allen character, who someone who's been famously
bad his entire career. Uh SO series What is your

(20:20):
relationship with this movie El Camino Christmas? Uh? Yeah, I
really didn't have much of one before coming on this cast.
I picked this movie because I really wanted to talk
about a law enforcement film, because you know, sitting and
having these intersectional conversations about police representation in our media

(20:41):
is really important, especially with two people such as yourselves.
Thank you, And this is like this movie in particular
is like such an all over This movie feels like
it was written by a hundred different people, all of
whom had different political views. Like it's so confus saying yeah,
with all due respect, this is one of the worst

(21:03):
movies I've ever seen, not I can't wait to not
even just like story content and politics wise, but also
just like looks like shit, it sounds like ship, it
sounds the music is playing louder than the people almost
the whole movie. It's so frustrating. Did you really want
to hear what they were saying? Though, Jamie's a good point.

(21:26):
Maybe it was a vengeful editor that was like, oh,
I don't need it dot MP three horrible dialogue. Yeah,
I had never heard of this movie until you suggested
it for this episode. And I mean, I'm glad I've
seen it now, just because I enjoy hate watching things

(21:47):
from time to time. So this allowed me to indulge
in that there's so much you would love my recommended
list on Netflix. Is it all like Cursed Cop again? Yes? Um?
Shall we shall we get into it? Shall I do
the recap? Yeah? Best of luck? Yeah? Right, Actually, let's

(22:09):
take I'm going to need to take a quick break first,
and then I'll gather my thoughts and we will come
right back. And we're back, all right. So l Camino Christmas.
We open on a violent shootout. We see members of

(22:33):
the Sheriff's department, We see vicent As liquor store, but
we don't really know what the situation is yet. We
cut to thirty nine hours earlier. It's a few days
before Christmas. We are in El Camino, Nevada, which is
not a real place I discovered upon some research. I
got so confused because I assumed that this was taking

(22:57):
place in California for some reason. And then and then
it turns out it's Nevada. I figured that out a
half hour into the movie. It took me a while, so,
my god, I'm really down to my last four brain cells.
So this was a challenge. So we're in the small
town of El Camino, Nevada. We are at the Sheriff's

(23:18):
department precinct. Sheriff Bob played by kirkwood Smith is yelling
at Deputy Carl Hooker played by Vincent Dinafrio for being
bad at his job. Carl is an alcoholic who is
drinking and or drunk in pretty much every scene we
will see him in. Meanwhile, this guy, Eric Norris played

(23:41):
by Luke Grimes has arrived in El Camino and he
goes to a motel for a room. Behind the front
desk is Bill is Bill ok Bill. I was like,
what is his last name? I don't know, I don't care,
but that's like you're like, you know what, that's not

(24:04):
worth it. That's Dex Shepherd's character, who we also saw
in the first scene as a sheriff's deputy. So he
works as a hotel clerk and a cop, which tracks.
I mean, a lot of cops I know have these
weird little side gigs that they do interesting. I did
not know that what are what would be like an
example of a of a classic cops side gig. Classic

(24:28):
side gig of course, as private security or private investigations.
Um also bodyguard security services. But then you get the
cops that are like real estate agents or nutritionists or trainers.
Even though that was allowed to be. Vienueva actually owns
a crossbit gym gross two on the nose. Yeah, predictable.

(24:53):
Um okay, So then we cut to Kate played by
Michelle Milett and her young son Seth. They cross paths
with Eric at a diner. We also meet a news
reporter named Beth Flowers played by Jessica Alba, who is
heavily gregnant. She's heavy with Greg and she's wait was

(25:19):
that intentional? Oh? Yes, every any person who is pregnant
is actually gregnant anant expecting a Greg any second now. Yeah,
she's about to explode with the little Greg. We also
meet a camera operator played by Jimmy oh Yang. I

(25:40):
don't think we ever learn his character's name. I don't
know if he had one. Yeah, I don't think, Yeah
he was. He was there to quip I. Look, I'm
very pro Jimmy oh Yang um getting money same, which
I hope is the only reason he did this because
the movie is just so god awful. It's trash. Yeah,
they're like local reporters that I think. Okay, this was

(26:02):
one of my favorite bad elements of the movie, where
the local reporters are like resentful that they've been given
a fluff piece and she describes it as like, oh,
like a local Like she specifies that they're handicapped for
no reason, and she emphasizes that word in a way
that feels extremely ablest. Yes, yeah, you're like the subtext

(26:25):
to this line is very gross and also confusing. But
she's like, oh, it's like a local person's passion project,
which is later revealed to be a really straightforward nativity play.
I'm like, yeah, this passion project was this? Do they
know that this story exists already? Like the Church of Christ?
I was expecting, like, you know, like Glengarry Glenn Ross

(26:48):
or some ship. But they're like, no, it's just an
activity play and that's their passion project. The writing in
this movie is so funny horrendous. Yeah, okay, So meanwhile,
Deputies Bill and Carl are tailing Eric, this you know,
newcomer to town. They think that he might be involved
in meth manufacturing or running because they see him with

(27:11):
a jug of drain oh, which is like the first
of many funny What is that called when there's a
product product placement moments? There's so much product placement. Bud
Light Lemon, bud Light Lemon, you say the full name
every time visit din Aprio, who's the evil characters like,
get me a bud Light Lemon. I love that bud

(27:33):
Light Lemon. And then Tim Alan brings it over. He's like,
here's that bud Light Lemon you asked for and then
he SIPs it and he's like, pretty good. There at
least yeah, like ten different direct references to different brands
of alcohol. It's just like very funny. Like but the
drain No got me good because they literally prefaced the

(27:53):
drain O spawn by being like, this is a main
ingredient in meth and then it's like, cut to a
bottle of rain No. Drain No, make your meth with it,
like only the best meth amphetam no store brand for me.
I make myth amphetamine with original branded drain No so bad,

(28:21):
so they're telling Eric. Then Eric goes and knocks on
the door of Tim Allen because Eric is looking for
a guy named Michael Roth. Eric had found this fifteen
year old letter and the return address on the letter
is Tim Allen's address. We don't really know who he's
looking for or why, but he's like, I have this

(28:42):
letter and this is the return address. But Tim Allen
is very hostile. He's possibly drunk because he also is
an alcoholic. He says, I'm not your daddy. He says,
I'm not I'm not your daddy. Leave me alone. But
then he's like, if you buy me a beer, I
will tell you about the guy who lived here before me.

(29:02):
So Eric takes Tim to a bar, but which you
shouldn't do in the movie and you shouldn't do with
Tim Allen in real life. Real life. No, tim Allen
continues to be a piece of ship at the bar.
He doesn't tell Eric anything, so Eric storms out. As
Eric is returning to his motel, Deputy Bill and Carl

(29:23):
stop him and arrest him because they find weed that
Tim Allen had left in Eric's car, and they're also like,
you have drain o, so you're making meth. And they're like,
and you don't even know anything about your car, so
that means you're a criminal. And then which again this
doesn't marry right. This is great representation of how police

(29:47):
actually function. In my experience, Like up to this point,
this is incredibly accurate. I must say I was kind
of surprised at the specificity of like a totally like bogus,
like we'd charge as an as an excuse to arrest
someone that they just wanted to arrest anyways. And then
also how it's like and we'll get into this in

(30:07):
the discussion later, but how at the beginning it's established
that like Vincent Dinafrio's character is not arresting enough people,
and so his motivation going to is like he just
needs to make arrests so he appears productive. Yes. Yes,
this was also the thing that tipped me off that
they were not in California, because I was like, oh,

(30:29):
we does not illegal in California, but it's legal in Nevada?
Is it okay? Was it? I have the answer? Please
tell us, Jamie. The reason why this movie feels like
it takes place on another planet is not only because
it's bad. It's because the script was written in two
thousand and seven. Oh, this was in development for over

(30:51):
ten years, so I think Mr. Hidden Figures was really
embarrassed that it actually came out at some point. They
developed this for ten years humiliating. I mean, I think
you can see that what a labor of love it
was for everyone involved. A passion project perhaps, So yeah,
the passion project that just ends up being a bad

(31:12):
Nativity play. So okay. Anyway, So so they've arrested Eric
and they bring him into the whatever like jail cell
and Deputy Carl beats the ship out of Eric. But
the next morning, Deputy Bill, that's again Dax Shepherd, let's

(31:32):
Eric go. But this is something that Carl doesn't know about.
And Carl spots Eric driving away, so Deputy Carl chases
after him. They both end up at Vicente liquor Mart,
where Kate and her son also are, where Tim Allen
is and where the owner, Vicente is, and Carl comes

(31:55):
in guns blazing, and Tim Allen, who is is ex
military and he has a gun on him. He shoots
Carl in the leg, and then in this kind of scuffle,
Eric ends up with both guns. For some reason, I
kept forgetting his name was Eric. I just kept writing
down his name in my notes as drain Now. Mr

(32:18):
drain Now was like drain Now has got a crush,
draina needs a dad, whatever, drain No has two guns now,
and it turns into a hostage situation where Eric a
k A. Drain No is holding everyone there hostage and
Sheriff Bob and Deputy Bill arrive. Eric tries to escape,

(32:38):
but the cops have him surrounded. There's more shooting. Meanwhile,
Beth Flowers aka Jessica Alba figures out that something is
going on, so she and Jimmy O Young show up
on the scene to report about it. The shooting kind
of calms down and everyone in the store is like, Hey, Eric,
why are you holding us hostage? Just turn yourself in

(33:01):
and he's like, pass And it takes us at least.
It took me a while to understand why he's holding hostages,
but I guess it's because he's trying to clear his
name from his arrest last night, and he's like, I'm
not gonna let everyone got What was your take on
why Draina was holding them hostage? I couldn't. Yeah, I

(33:24):
wasn't even clear if he was really holding them, because
it seems to me like the hostage situation was sort
of like Carl was really the catalyst for that. He's like,
you're holding us all hostage, and a couple of times
Eric drain No even said like, I'm not holding anyone,
you can go, But then the cops started shooting, so
of course no one would want to leave at that point.

(33:47):
So I I wasn't even really clear if he was
like even holding them, and and Carl was really the
one saying like he's got hostages, he's got hostages, and
they overpower him and shut him up as a result
of that. So like, did writers even know if Eric
was motivated to hold these people at hostage? I don't know.
To me, it really seemed like he ended up with

(34:07):
the guns in his hand. The call had gone out,
and no one was able to leave at that point.
So right, and he was viewed as having escaped. I
guess because right that was another well I don't know
if we want to get into this in the discussion,
but like the way he left the jail was not clear.

(34:28):
It was not clear if he had been released, if
he was an escape ee unclear. I mean, Dax Shepherd's like,
I'm gonna go take a dump. I'm gonna leave the
door open, I'm gonna give your keys, and if you're
not back when I get back, well then shrug. I
don't know what happened, right, But it's like, is he
setting him up to be an escaped convict or is

(34:51):
he actually being like, my partner is a piece of ship,
and I feel bad for you, so I'm letting you go. Unclear,
because there's paperwork that needs to happen, and like, if
you've booked him as an arrest ee, you can't just
let someone like walk out. You need to process them
or they're still going to be in the system, which
presents the whole right. I interpret it as Dax Shepherd

(35:12):
is extremely incompetent at a cop, and so he was
just like, well, I'm just gonna let him go, and
he so he wasn't like setting him up necessarily. He
was just like, well, I'll just let you go. It
was just a weird charge. I was sort of unclear
on that too. Yeah, because the dad from that seventy show,
like mostly what he's doing is calling Dak Shepherd of

(35:35):
a fucking fool all the time, where he just like
every word out of his mouth, he's like Dax Shepherd,
who by the way, sucks at everything. Like so it's
like we're definitely supposed to think that and he does.
But also it's like you don't know how he but
like even even uh fucking fools who don't know anything
have feelings, and I'm like, I don't know how he
feels about anything. It was really so confusing. Yeah. Yeah,

(35:59):
And also we didn't touch on this yet, but like Carl, Yeah,
like Carl incites this event to the point where he
like you know, shoots a gun in the air and
then says shots fired too. So he's also like accusing
drain no of additional things he didn't do. He's making
it sound like drain oh was shooting when it was

(36:21):
Carl who shot I think twice before getting into the store. Right, So,
a semi hostage situation unfolds, but it's not because Eric
is actually holding anyone hostage. It's because this corrupt cop, Carl,
instigates this whole thing, and gun violence ensues. Gunshots are

(36:43):
fired by a bunch of people, and then so now
it's just too hostile of the situation to like de
escalate safely kind of thing. So that's what's going on
inside the liquor mart. The cops outside, namely Sheriff Bob
and the beauty Bill, are trying to figure out who
is inside and who is the gunmen who took the

(37:06):
other's hostage quote unquote. They do suspect Eric as the gunman,
and they figured out who else is inside the store,
except that they don't know that Tim Allen is inside,
and that will become important later. And after a few hours,
the cops decide to ambush the store to take down
the gunman and save the hostages. But right before this happens,

(37:30):
Carl shoots Eric with a secret gun that he had
the whole time. It's kind of a plot gun, a
plot gun that he was hiding in his butt crack
question mark. It's so poor and it's like also knowing
anything about like this stage of Vincent din Afria's career,
I'm just like I feel for him that like he's oh,
it's just it's just all such a bummer. And once

(37:53):
we're in the liquor store, it's like pretty much paid
advertising all the way. Like there's in the bat background
of every impactful shot, there's like Tito's vodka. Oh my god.
My favorite scene is um to Valin and his and
dren No to Vlin and Dreana were talking about Vietnam
and it's cutting back and forth between a shot of

(38:16):
like pop Tarts and like instant Ramen, and the labels
are so prominent that he's like, you were never there
for me pop Tarts, I couldn't be there for you
instant Ramen, like it's really it's really special. Um So,
Vincent Donofrio shoots Draino with a secret plot gun he

(38:36):
has in his but yes, exactly, this movie rocks Eric Eric.
Eric shoots Carl back and fatally kills him. That's not
how you say that. But the cops here the gun
shots and open fire on the liquor store. Vicenta gets shot.
Everyone is freaking out. Silent Night is playing on the

(38:57):
soundtrack because it's Christmas Eve. You also haven't mentioned the
single mom in a while, which is showing how much
the story Uh yeah, correct. And then Tim Allen starts
telling a story about the Vietnam War and Eric is like,
I already know because I read your letters because you're

(39:20):
my daddy, and Tim Allen is like, yes, son, I
should have been there for your mom or something. Meanwhile,
Jessica Alba's Gregnancy has reached critical mass and she goes
into labor on air as she's reporting, Honestly, I didn't
think they would do it. I was like, Okay, if
a movie is like written and directed by like sis guys,

(39:43):
if there's a pregnant character that's Tchekov's Greg, and that
Greg is gonna like rock it out like a T
shirt gun at some point in the movie, they can't
help themselves. You can't let someone leave the movie is
still pregnant, even if it takes place over the course
of thirty seven minutes or whatever. The FuG She is
so gregnant and in labor. The decks shepherd later hands

(40:05):
her water bottle and then she throws it at someone else,
and then she says it hurts so bad because that's
how being in labor is. God Jessica out and it's
like Jessica Alba is like a parent. She knows that
this isn't how kids. Yeah, she knows that this isn't
how Greg Nancy works. I mean, I know it hurts

(40:25):
very bad. The way she was acting though, it is,
but the way they had her positioned, I thought she
had also been shot. And I was like, oh no, wait,
she's the pregnant character, so of course she's giving birth. Well,
because this movie is I think, in theory a comedy,
but It took me so long to figure that out
because the comedy totally it's just a very very weird movie.

(40:48):
There are attempts at comedy in it, but it rarely
lands or makes sense or there's just like so much
tonal dissonance and it's absurd. I don't know what you're
talking about. It made total sense to me, and I
was cracking up there. I did laugh whenever it cut
to pop tarts. Um, I laughed at the parts that

(41:09):
you're not supposed to be laughing at. So so then
the FBI shows up and Kate and her son leave
the store, which they probably could have done the whole time. Yes,
I think so. No one was ever going to shoot them,
So now it's just Eric and his dad, Tim Allen,

(41:30):
and Tim Allen decides to take the fall for this,
and he acts like he's the gunman who took the
hostages in order to save Eric, but not before he
makes a weird pass at the second most prominent woman
in the movie, which is a cardboard cut out of
a PBR model. Good stuff, incredible writing, flawless, no notes. Okay,

(41:58):
So he goes outside with the cardboard cutout of this
sexy lady and then he pulls out both guns. So
the cops shoot down Tom Allen and kill him. But
that's his like redemption thing. Then we flashed forward to
a hundred and eighty two days later, very specific number.

(42:19):
Vicente has lived. I feel like that had to change.
That had to be a script note. He was so
dead and like extremely he's fine and on vacation, and
the epilogue it is I mean, I'm glad his character lived,
but that is not how that was shot at all.
That he was also thirty two million dollars richer, and

(42:41):
he made a comment of if you do the math,
that's eight million per bullet, which is just again that
note about comedy and tone. I just I'm like, I
didn't even catch supposed to be miserable, right, God, I'm
not sure. Okay, So it's a hundred. It's six months later,
but they call it two days later. We check in

(43:03):
with all of the characters, such as Deputy Bill is
running for sheriff. Beth Flowers is a reporter in Austin, Texas.
Now Kate's mom is dating a weather guy from l
A and laughing at his horrible joke. Vicente is still alive,
and he got this huge settlement out of being shot

(43:24):
by the cops, and Eric is hanging out with Kate
and her son at a diner. The and his daddy died,
but now he's daddy. Now he's daddy. Like the Santa Claus,
They're gonn only be one daddy. It's like the Santa Clause.
It's like The Godfather. There's a lot of parallels. You

(43:45):
gotta take down the first daddy and then you're now
you're the one. You're the daddy exactly, the daddy now.
And then the movie is like, all right, it's over,
and then it cuts to like my movie credits and
Vincent din Afrio singing a dorble rendition of a Christmas song. Alright,
let's take another quick break and we will come back
to discuss, and we're back. Okay. Um, so I already

(44:17):
like started to get into this, but um, in your
professional opinion, what is this? What is going on here?
And and how professional opinion? What the yeah with the respect,
what the fund is happening in this movie? Is there?
Because it's like you're you mentioned at a few points

(44:38):
like that is actually like a pretty realistic thing that
a sheriff. Remember the sheriff Department made do. How do
you feel this movie did in terms of that, in
terms of representing how a lot of Sheriff's Department officials,
a lot of police officials treat their job and relate

(45:02):
to the people in their profession. I thought it was
pretty spot on. The constant drinking that Carl is doing
on the job, his manipulation of active crime, scenes of
evidence of beating people, and custody that are handcuffed. I've
seen all of that before multiple times. The sheriff himself

(45:22):
when he arrives on the scene. This is all taking
place at a gas station, and the sheriff is chain
smoking throughout this gas station constantly. Um. He even makes
a remark about that they're going to send in the
gas and gas all these people out of the structure. Um.
That gas was actually used in Waco, Texas, when the
Branch Davidians were in this stand up, very similar standoff,

(45:45):
and I thought a lot about the Branch Davidians watching this, Actually,
I was like, who is the Koresh of this Yeah,
of this liquor store. Yeah, And when they did that
to Koresh and his followers, that gas, Um, that gas
highly flammable, and we saw what happened to those poor
souls in Waco, Texas. They were all burned alive. And

(46:06):
again this is happening at a gas station and he's
starting to bring in this highly flammable gas. And then
at the end when Billy is campaigning for sheriff and
he is in uniform, illegally campaigning Um whilst on the job.
That's another thing that we saw throughout this past election
cycle when our now sheriff soon to be ex Sheriff,
Alex Nueva Um did this multiple times throughout the election cycle.

(46:32):
So as far as Oh my God, and my favorite
part in this movie, before Karl dies, he guilt trips
everyone in the store and says, who was the one
you came to when you had a problem? Um? Ostensibly
as a member of the sheriff's department. You know it's
your job to do something when you know a woman
comes to you and says that she's a victim of

(46:53):
domestic violence. Right, You're not a hero for doing your
job correct? Well, that was like what the things that
pain for me? Where I was like, is he implying
that he did a good job in that situation because
it's like the sheriff's department also has a horrible record
with preventing domestic violence. It seems like they are causing
it more often than they are preventing it. Right, And

(47:15):
he implied that he really didn't do anything. When he
talks about the man that was hitting Katie, he says,
I ran him out of town, which to me doesn't
sound like, Oh, I you know, pursued a case scott
evidence and saw him prosecuted, so the full it's done
on the law. Instead, he behaved like a vigilante and
ran this person out of town where he you know,

(47:36):
I'm assuming he's probably gone on to victimize another woman
in another city. Right, Oh my gosh. So my question is,
while a lot of the behavior and actions of the
deputies and sheriff tracks with real life sheriff department behavior,

(47:56):
how does the movie feel about these characters though? Because
at certain points I'm like, oh, they're they're showing us like,
look how corrupt Carl is and isn't that horrible? Look
how incompetent Bill is and isn't that embarrassing? And shouldn't
we have, you know, better people on the force. But
then the movie, especially the way it ends, it like

(48:18):
does a lot too, I think encourage the audience to
empathize with, especially Sheriff Bob and Deputy Bill, because it
checks back in with them and it's like, ha ha,
aren't these moments funny? Where Bob is getting hypnotherapy question
Mark to try to stop smoking and Bill is like
having a goofy moment with this woman who keeps having

(48:41):
raccoons on her property. I'm like, how does the movie
actually feel about law enforcement? And is it coming from
the right place? That is something I was never clear
on both times I watched this movie. You watched this
movie twice? I did that that is the appropriate response. Well,

(49:04):
in my defense, I also only have four brain cells left,
and I have to watch a movie twice. You can't
catch all the gorgeous nuance of this film on only
one watch. Yeah, you need to see it twice. Yeah.
I felt I had some similar like, I mean, this
movie is so like this movie felt like it was
written by so many people that from scene to scene

(49:24):
it felt like it's loyalties would shift, like in one
way or another. Because even like the because I agree
series that like the guilt trip that Carl does at
the end is like very in character of what a
real life member of a sheriff's department might do, but
then like the music that backs him sort of makes

(49:46):
it sound like think about that. Yeah, this changes everything
when right, It's so bizarre and but it's also like
Tim Allen's character is like against the sheriff and is
like almost the voice of reason in the scene, which
is like very He's also a Vietnam veteran who like

(50:07):
lovingly recalls like bombing the fuck out of a village
that I had to That is one scene that I
did rewatch to be like did I Did I get
that right? Where the story he tells, And please either
of you correct me if I misunderstood this, because I
was just like, this can't be it he's talking about

(50:27):
He's he's very romantically recalling being in Vietnam. He's in
some sort of leadership position. He sees a village full
of innocent families and says, let's not murder this village.
But then the Vietnamese armed forces instead kill not just

(50:49):
the village but also a bunch of Tim Allen's buddies.
And so Tim Allen is like, I really wish that
I had just killed those innocent people like that, I think,
so that's what I had sunk for me. Yeah, just
a baffling way to make us and we're supposed to

(51:10):
like really like him and that it's just so dissonant
and bizarre, right because this is like the beginning of
his redemption arc. And then he's like, well, I wasn't
there for you as a daddy. Maybe if I had
just killed all those innocent people, I would have been
a good father to you. I I think is is

(51:33):
this is the takeaway? And then he's like, well, I
threw my life away, but I can still redeem myself
if I go outside and take the fall for this
hostage situation out my guns for some reason, and then
get shot down. And then as he's dying. I didn't
mention this to recap, but as he's lying there bleeding out,

(51:56):
he says something. He's like looking up to heaven presumably,
and he's like, well, I hope it's better up there
in heaven. Like what does he say? It's something like
that you're not going there to him, straight to hell, bro.
But then there's other moments it's so hard. There's other

(52:17):
moments where at least in regards to how the other
characters in the gas Station view the sheriff's department, where
I'm like, all right, they're nibbling at something there where
like I feel like, very often in movies that feature cops, sheriffs,
any sort of like violent law enforcement, it like underestimates

(52:40):
the average person's ability to understand how obviously corrupt the
authorities are. And it sort of is like everyone is
just like completely loyal and they're like gets a police officer,
it's a sheriff. They would never hurt me. And the
characters in this movie, while terribly written, do seem to

(53:00):
like constantly acknowledge how corrupt the sheriff's department is. Like
it seems like everybody is kind of aware of it,
to the point where even Tim Allen like calls out
the hypocrisy of the sheriff, and like, I thought that
was interesting, where like Vincent din Afriel was saying, like, oh,
Tim Allen, you're a drunk, and Tim Allen's like, well,

(53:21):
I don't drink and drive or drink and arrest people
like you do, so, which is like, yeah, facts, bro,
He's kind of he kind of nailed it. It was
so confusing I'm just an asshole when I'm drunk. You
I do like when Tim Allen, I guess, gets so
drunk that he passes out for what seems to be

(53:43):
a large portion of the hostage situation because he's just snoozing,
snoring on the ground. That bud light lemon, That bud
light lemon, right to sleep, the bud light lemon, the
past blue ribbon, the fed vodka, the pop tarts, that chetos. Oh,
there was also the romance scene near the cheetos. I

(54:04):
really like the cheeto romance scene. You know what really
gets me going is a nice hot cheeto. Oh, perhaps
even a flaming hot cheeto. Um we I guess talk
about the women in the movie, Yeah, it'll be a
short discussion, so we've got well. This was another thing

(54:27):
that was I think was a pretty boldly gross precedent
that this movie seems to want to explore, Which is
that um our main character. Oh God, I've kept writing
drain No's girl, Kate. Kate is a young single mom.
Of what we learned in the scene where they're introduced,
it seems of a boy with autism or his doctor

(54:51):
is suggesting, I think your son maybe on the autism spectrum,
and Kate immediately denies this, does not want to listen,
and we are supposed to be firmly on her side
about this, correct. She is coming in with an extremely
ablest stance because she seems to be horrified at the

(55:11):
thought that her son would be on the autism spectrum,
because like neurodivergent in anyway, because she's basically like, he
is normal, and it's like, well, what do you mean
when you say that, Kate? Well, the way the doctor
describes autism spectrum disorders is extremely able ist too, because
she says something like, you know, children can seem perfectly

(55:35):
normal with only minor anomalies, and it's like, that is
not how we talk about neurodivergence. Doctor. Also, what are
you a doctor in? Like? It was also very unclear
what the appointment had been for. That scene was horribly done,
and then I was like, God, I hope that because

(55:55):
it seemed like the reason this even came up is
because her son seth question mark, was non verbal and
it hadn't begun speaking. I don't know how old the
character is, it doesn't matter. Five we learned he's five
years old. He's five, okay, So he's five and and
he's nonverbal. His mother is not willing to talk to

(56:16):
a doctor about this, but the doctor is also horrible.
The story plays out there held hostage for no reason.
They could have left it any time. And then it's
like implied by the movie that drain No becoming a
father quote unquote cures Yes, Seth non verbal and then
all of a sudden he's speaking in full sentences because

(56:39):
drain now is his daddy. Now. It's just like fucking
absurd and gross. That is the logic of the movie.
Could I track it? No, But is what the movie
seems to be suggesting really bizarre? Um. And then we
already talked about Jessica Alba's characters able is um, yeah,
so that's horrendous. Well, and the fact that all three

(57:00):
women who appear in the movie are just like defined
by mommy, like their mommy, the single mom. She's there
to be mommy. Her mommy is also there to be mommy.
But but that moms. Oh yeah about horny mom really quick, well,
there are three what a horny mom? There are three

(57:20):
stages of mommy nous. There is currently gregnant mommy. There
is young mummy who has a small child already. And
then there's older horny mom mommy. And also she's technically
horny grandma as well, another beloved trope on the Pectel
cast exactly. But and she's she's so horny she can't parent.

(57:41):
Like that's how horny this woman is. Like I have
to go bowling with Dennis the dental hygienist and we're like,
what do you have a sexy bowling shirt? I will say,
of all the actors in the movie, I feel like
horny Horny Mom was did the most with the least.
No one is doing anything in this movie but horny Mom.

(58:02):
She tried to make the best of it. Did it work, No,
but she tried. She tried. Same with the Sente given
nothing sent justice for Vicente. Um. I want to shout
out a few of my favorite moments in the movie.
I mean, speaking of Kate and the lack of characterization
she is given. One of the most absurd scenes to
me in the movie was it's toward the beginning, she's

(58:25):
working at the liquor mart, behind the counter, the only
person working there. She's behind the counter. She's supposed to
be like, you know, making sure things are running smoothly.
Eric comes in. It's about it as much as the
movie knows about running a store to working at store
and you know, etcetera, etcetera, YadA YadA, YadA. Um. Eric

(58:49):
comes in. Kate is behind the cash register, but she's
turned away, facing like one eight degrees away from the entrance,
the cash register, the counter. She's also hunched over a
book and listening to music on headphones, so he has
to be like, hey, excuse me. He grabs her. This
startles her and she's very piste off about it, but

(59:11):
it's like, yes, he shouldn't have grabbed her, but you
were doing your job so badly, like you were turned
away from everything you should have been turned toward, and
anyone could have come in and just like stolen everything.
Like okay, Caitlin, I will say, that's not the comment,
because I have done that job like that. Have I

(59:36):
absolutely worked at a desk, not facing the people I
was supposed to be serving, actively blocking them out. Absolutely,
I understand the I actually support her doing her job
that way, that being badly studying microbiology. Yeah, that's not
like other girls. He's a woman in stem. She has
literally a woman in stem. Will that become relevant? No,

(59:58):
she's a mother. I just was I like that they
just threw that out there for no reason. I was
just confounded that she was so mad that he startled
her when she was doing her job. Not well anyway,
I guess I just I hate Drano so and ran
such a Yeah, he's he's the worst. Also, like I

(01:00:22):
love when a whole movie could have been a text
or something like that, Like he could have just like
emailed Tim Allen and this whole movie would not have
happened and it would have made more sense. But whatever. Yeah,
but it's I kind of forgot that they told us
that Kate is like going to school for anything, because
it's never relevant, Like her problems are she is, I

(01:00:44):
mean a real problem. She's a single momb struggling to
get by, okay, but that's the only thing that's ever
really relevant. Is like that she has a young son
that she struggles with caretaking for it because she doesn't
have a lot of money. Enter horny mom who's not helpful.
But it's all problems. And then and then on top
of that, they throw in and she loves Drain. Now

(01:01:06):
she's got a little crush on Drain. No, but she's
so I guess my point is for this scene is
that the writers for some reason wanted to establish conflict
between Kate and drain Oh, but the way they do
it just makes her seem to me, just makes her
seem very unreasonable and like illogical, and I'm just like,

(01:01:29):
so that is what The way that she's characterized in
that moment is what bothered me. But yeah, the movie,
my favorite woman was the cardboard one, and everyone talked
to her. It is true, including oh yeah, Vicente is like,
don't worry my dead wife. I'm not going to cheat
on you with cut out, cut out lady. She's kind

(01:01:55):
of the hottest lady in town. Everyone's literally in love
with her. Everyone loves her. I got that that scene
the way that they because that's the only characterization Vicente gets.
Everyone gets like a sentence except for Dreano and Tim Allen,
who gets the rest of the movie, but Vicente, Like
it's the kind of scene where it's like, well, no

(01:02:15):
one else is in here, and we need to know
that Vicente is mourning his wife so that the sheriff
can guilt him about it later. And that's the only
thing we ever learned about Vicente other than he's a
real sweetheart and gets Seth a toy. And also I
wrote down at some point I was like, hopefully Vicente

(01:02:35):
is like keeping track of how much they are eating
and drinking the Sheriff's department. I'm glad he got thirty
two million dollars and that clearly rewritten ending. But um,
what about the three d dollars worth of bud Light
lime they drink in the one hour they were in there? Right, Also,
there's that scene where Carl comes in and he like

(01:02:56):
buys a bunch of stuff and then he just throws
down maybe like seventies recents and he's like, that's all
I have. Yes, he's strong arm robs the sense. Yes,
add that to the list of corrupt cop things that
Carl does. One of my favorite scenes is when Tim
Allen is also. Also, the way the movie depicts alcoholism

(01:03:18):
is questionable. Anyway, the sent kind of sponsored it. No,
like we're gonna make a movie about alcoholism and just
have a bunch of con for various alcohol friends. That's great,
that's yeah. Both of the like Vici din Afrio and
Tim Allen are both ruined by alcohol, but they're also like,

(01:03:41):
but they love this blud light, lie you want to
ruin your life? Have you considered bud light line? Bud
It's the same logic of the drain o spawn, Like,
it doesn't make any sense. Also, do you put draino
down your toilet when it's clogged? I've I don't know
if that's a thing anyway, right, I didn't think so
it's for your sink? Is for the train train? That's

(01:04:05):
what I thought. Trainer is worthless? Yeah, I gotta I honestly,
I don't know why I assumed the movie was smarter
than me in that moment where I was like, I
guess you can use it for that too. Well, speaking
of repairing things, Kate can fix the cooler in the store,
but Vicente can't. So a woman can fix it, a
man can't, And that's feminism anyway. One of my favorite

(01:04:30):
lines of dialogue, or like exchanges of dialogue is when
Vicente is talking to Tim Allen and he says, why
don't you find yourself a nice lady? You wouldn't need
all this liquor, And Tim Allen says, this is how
this works. I give you money, you give me booze.
It's simple capitalism, and we're like incredible dialogue, perfect, so good,

(01:04:53):
and then Vicente, keeping in being a sweetie pie, is like,
all right, you can have a free six pack for
what for what you just yelled at me. There's so
confusing the sentate. I mean, I think that, like, well,
the Sente is the one of the only this is
like a majority white cast, and I think it's like
telling how non white cast members are treated. We don't

(01:05:16):
even know what Jimmy O Young's name is. He certainly
has no arc. Jessica Alba does have an arc, but
it's completely defined by the fact that she's about to
explode with Greg like so really not much for her
as well. But I think Vicente especially we should talk
about because he's the only I mean he is. I

(01:05:36):
think that when when Karl dies, it's meant in the
movie to be like and that is kind of his
just desserts here. He he deserves it. Why we kill
the Sente but then bring him back to life? I
just did. I did not like it, but did not
like that they brutally killed Vicente. Could not make kids
or tales of that. I think another I mean, another

(01:05:58):
example of the movie be actually depicting police behavior is
being very realistic is when Carl says something very racist
to to Vicente, which is again like very par for
the course for law enforcement overall, but the fact that

(01:06:18):
we know very little about Vicente. He's pretty incidental to
the story and then is brutally shot in that final shootout,
but then comes back to life and meets a sexy
lady on the beach for him. But I also feel
like it's suggested that she only likes him after she

(01:06:39):
learns that he's worth dollars. I'm not sure anyway justice
for a Vicente and may make the joke about how
many millions of dollars per times he was shot by
a sheriff like that. The director of the movie, David
Etel Albert, is a black filmmaker, which I was surprised

(01:07:04):
to learn based on the way that characters of color
are represented on screen. No kidding, did not know that. Yes,
so I'll say I would recommend his other his subsequent
Christmas movie, Jingle Jangle. I thought it was a delight.
I still need to see it. It's good, but it's
a good one. Um, yeah, I it's I I mean,

(01:07:29):
someone needs to be held accountable for this movie's existence.
It's very unclear to be like, I'm normally I'm very
quick to blame the director, but in in this case,
he is very clearly already like there's some sort of
situation where he has to direct one Netflix Christmas movie

(01:07:49):
a year or got him locked up at Netflix and
they're you gotta do this opaganda Christmas film. So I'm
curious that maybe how much he I'd be curious to
know how much he wanted to direct this movie. And
then it also seems like, I mean, Theodore Malfie, who
is he's a white writer, even he had thoroughly backed

(01:08:13):
off having written this because he wrote it ten years
before it was ever produced, and then hopefully like read
a fucking book at some point, and it sounded like
by the time the movie was made even he like
no longer stood by what he had written. It just
seems like was anyone involved in this project voluntarily? I

(01:08:35):
don't know. I mean, I think Dak Shepherd was. I
think I think Dak Shepherd. I mean, maybe maybe the cast.
I don't know, but it just was very bizarre. Is
also produced by Theodore Malfie's wife, like it was a
whole family affair making this bad movie interesting. I couldn't
find any information about it because well, obviously we I

(01:08:57):
always begin my research on scholarly journal Wikipedia, and this
movie has one of the sparsest Wikipedia entries I've ever seen,
because it's like, no one did press around it. No
one wanted to draw attention to the fact that this
was released. People wanted to forget about it, but my
Netflix algorithm wouldn't let it happen. Series is Neflix algorithm

(01:09:21):
trounced this movie's determination to not exist. I mean, I
guess it's like, I'm glad it's not popular, right again,
never heard of it till we recorded this episode, um series.
I guess I was interested in your final word on
this in terms of, like, as someone who I know

(01:09:41):
his consumed a lot of copaganda, it's in your algorithm.
You can't escape. How does for its five trillion faults
we just discussed, how does El Camino Christmas stack up
against your average coppaganda, my average compagandor average Christmas copaganda?

(01:10:01):
Because there is that sub genre. Please unpack that well.
I mean, you got the Classic, you got die Hard,
you got die Hard too. Al Camino Christmas isn't it there?
I mean there are a lot of like feel good
Christmas movies involving the police, which is a whole other conversation.

(01:10:22):
I picked this one because it was recent. I incorrectly
assumed that it took place in Los Angeles. Um, but
it seems like, you know, I wasn't alone in that assumption,
and the way it was sure it was shot in Burbank,
it probably was. How does it stuck up? Man, I
gotta say it's I like it because I don't like it.

(01:10:43):
Let me rephrase that. I appreciate that there are moments
where the police are portrayed in ways that are accurate
to people that are interacting with the police and our
representative of you know, a lot of people's experiences. What
I did not like is that it didn't go anywhere

(01:11:06):
with that, and those instances they attempted to laugh them
off in a weird way, like the comment about the bullet.
I think there was also a remark made about Eric
being beaten up in custody, which is just why I
don't know what that is supposed to serve. Hey, maybe

(01:11:29):
there is a way to do comedy about the police
where they are well, actually I know there is. I think,
like what a lot of things that are happening on
Reno I think are really smart and are possibly a
good way to talk about the police in a comedic lens.
I love that show, although I haven't seen it in
a while, but I was a huge fan for a while. Yeah,

(01:11:52):
from what I it's been a while too, but from
what I remember, what I did like about that show
is like, yes, this is how the police behave, and like,
this is funny, we can laugh at it, but there
are a lot of real things that play here. I
feel like this was like attempting to do something like that,
but Whift incredibly truly. Yeah, I was, I was. I was.

(01:12:17):
Nothing about this movie was a pleasant surprise necessarily, but
I was fully going into this with the I mean,
even Tim Allen's involvement. I was just like, well, this
is going to be explicitly pro cop all the way down.
I was surprised that it even approached a criticism of
the sheriff's office or or the idea of a sheriff. Again,

(01:12:40):
it's like, because the movie is so poorly written, it's
really hard to know how we're supposed to be feeling.
But it did feel like there were a few flavors
of corrupt sheriff presented poorly but presented where it's like
Dak Shepherd is like an incompetent Carl is drinking and

(01:13:01):
inciting violence and making false arrests, and then the dad
from that seventies show is the one who's like setting
those precedents of like you're not arresting enough people, and
it is, you know, And so it was like a
lot of it seems like, as far as I know
from listening to and interacting with your work series like
classically shareff fee things to do. But yeah, but it

(01:13:24):
like goes nowhere and we still are supposed to like
them enough at the end that you want to see
him go to a hypnotherapist and stop smoking. So not successful.
What I think it is is what little criticism there
is about a sheriff's department is mostly directed at Carl,
and he does seem to be the most corrupt one,

(01:13:48):
but he's the baddest apple exactly. The messages like, well
there's one bad apple, so you know, you can't let
it spoil the bunch. But but the movie is like, well, yeah,
Dax Chef Bird's character is incompetent, but you see him improving,
he's getting better at police work because he's like, yeah,
I ran the license plates and then and then Sheriff

(01:14:11):
Bob is like, wow, good job, buddy, great cop work.
Like that's like cutting to the end of a movie
about a chef and then he's like, look, I turned
the heat on. And they're like, hey, that's good decks,
good job, you get to keep your job. It's a
mess um. But does the movie pass the Bechdel test?

(01:14:35):
I actually it doesn't, think it does it? Does it does? Okay?
Is it with horny mom? There are a few scenes
between Kate and her mom, whose first name we never know,
but I feel like she's a oh okay, okay. So
she They have several conversations about, you know, the mom
going on a date with a man and oh, mom,

(01:14:56):
I need you to watch my son. But there is
a brief exchange where her mom was like, hey, you
should ask for a raise. If you want something, you
got a growl for it. And then Kate says, I'm
waiting for the day you tell me I'm adopted, and
then her mom says, you just keep on waiting. Wait.
But does that pass because she works for a man?

(01:15:17):
I mean there is some subtext that you could argue
maybe it doesn't, but he's not explicitly I guess the
spirit of that do Like, I mean, look, the point
is and this is a fun place to to just
remind our listeners as we have to every so often.
Although the film twitter Um Gestapo will never will never

(01:15:41):
listen to this part. But a movie passing the Bechtel
test doesn't really mean that much. It's really not that important,
and the movie cannot pass the Bechtel test and it
doesn't make it bad necessarily. It's just a basic metric
to get a discussion started of Hey, if this is

(01:16:01):
a whole movie and women never speak to each other,
that feels weird, like that's why the comic was written.
But but that said, I take you back everything I said.
This is a feminist classic. I agree with the whole thing.
Hey fixes a cooler Yeah. And also I will say
my my favorite part it like knocked this this memory

(01:16:24):
loose where when drain No like he tries to do
like a little flirty gesture by paying for like their
breakfast at the local diner, and it brought me back
to this memory I have of being at an eye
hop in Boston in where I was eating dinner with
my friend after work and someone an admirer I never

(01:16:48):
learned who it was, sent a single over easy egg
over to the table, and I think about it all
the time. I was like, was that my husband? Her wife?
Like who was that? Who did that? And why a
single egg? That is some nutty ship it was. But

(01:17:09):
I found it. The twisted part for me is I
found it so romantic. I was like, really, I thought
it was kind of hot that someone did you are
the hot dog girl. I don't know. I think it's
the horny ist egg and over easy egg goes like wow,
the egg that comes like, it's just it really made

(01:17:30):
me think. And so when drain No did that, I
was like, damn, maybe it was drain Now, maybe it
Mr Egg. If you're listening, send another. Jamie loved it.
If you're listening, please do not contact me. Leave us alone.
I don't want to hear from you. Alright, alright, well
it's time for our nipple scale, in which we rate

(01:17:51):
the movie on a scale of zero to five nipples
based on looking at the movie through an intersectional feminist lens.
I would give it a half nipple for generous. I know,
for the as we've discussed, not well executed, attempts to
provide some kind of meaningful critique on corruption and incompetence

(01:18:15):
in a sheriff's department. But it does try a little bit,
which was more than I was expecting. But again it
doesn't land. The criticism is flimsy, everything else about the
movie being extremely ablest, the way people of color are
characterized in the movie, the way the women are characterized

(01:18:37):
in the movie. It's just all extremely lazy and horribly written. Again,
one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Um, I'll
take it down to a quarter nipple because I just
want to give something to Vicente, justice for Vicente. But
that's it, I guess, like with that framing, Yeah, I
guess given the quality and cast of this movie the

(01:19:00):
I fully expected this movie to be thoroughly pro sheriff
and so introducing even the remotest criticism, I guess exceeded
my expectations. I do still feel like I have to
give it no nipples though, because it's so bad. But
I guess as an asterisk to that, I think it
intentionally or not, did show like you're saying, showed some

(01:19:24):
actual sheriff behavior, but didn't really go so far as
to be actually critical of it in a way that
was cogent um so and as far as representing that
any marginalized person that was horrible. I guess if I
had nipples, I would give it to the pop tarts,
but I don't have any to distribute, so it's going

(01:19:49):
to be nothing for no one hey listeners. So normally
we would have our guests also give their rating right
about now, but there were some technical issues and our
s s audio dropped out. From this point on, UM,
I think Sires gave the movie somewhere between zero and
one nipple. But more importantly, we want you to check

(01:20:10):
out Sires's podcast, A Tradition of Violence that examines deputy
gangs and their violence and corruption all happening within the
l A County Sheriff's Department. UM, So please check this
podcast out. You can also read Serisa's series A Tradition
of Violence published in Knock l A. Sires has done

(01:20:31):
and it continues to do, an incredible job reporting on
this topic. So please check out A Tradition of Violence
And then for us, you can catch us in all
kind of the normal places Twitter for as long as
it exists on Instagram. At Bechdel Cast, we have some
tour announcements that will be out by the time you

(01:20:54):
hear this episode, so we'll probably record something separately for
that we can take it to the shows. You can
follow our Patreon a Matreon five bucks a month get
to you two additional episodes a month, and this month,
we are of course doing the Lindsay Lohan Christmas movie,
which I have seen some of the green screening in
and it is um. I can't wait. I can't wait,

(01:21:16):
I cannot wait. I think she any the lead actor
are possibly filming from different states, um, and certainly nowhere
near snow. I can't wait. I'm so excited. So scoot
on over to the Matreon for that. At patreon dot
com slash spectel Cast. You can also go to the
public dot com slash the bectel Cast for all of

(01:21:37):
your merch needs. It's the holiday season, it's it's time
for gift giving, etcetera. You don't know what to give
your loved ones as a gift. What about a podcast
they've never listened to? Could be interesting? Uh? Or if
you're like, hey, loved one, you're not sure what to
get me, Well, hint, hint, the Bechtel Cast sells merch

(01:21:59):
you out, just some ideas. We won't know if you don't,
so I don't worry about it, don't don't lose any
sleep over it. And here's me Caitlin again, jumping in
with just a reminder about those tour details. We're doing
shows in l A, San Francisco, Portland and Seattle in
late January early February. The ticket links, the exact dates

(01:22:23):
and venues and movies and all of those details that
can all be found on our link tree which is
link tr dot e slash becktel Cast, and you can
check our Twitter and Instagram for those details as well.
We helped to see you there, Thank you for listening,
and catch you next episode.