Fast Times at Ridgemont High with Paige Weldon and Emily Faye

This week, it's fast times at the Bechdel Cast with special guests Paige Weldon and Emily Faye of Mall Talk podcast chatting about Fast Times at Ridgemont High. 

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
best start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hi,
and welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie
Loftus and I'm Caitlin Darante and this is our podcast

(00:21):
about the representation of women in famous movies. Wow, there
where we are for episode? What is its one million?
There's still there's still so it just crazy me the
show that has been happening for three years and we're
still like, not even remotely through influential movies. There's so

(00:41):
many left. I'm surprised it took us this long to
get to this one today. I think this is the
first time they're recovering a Cameron Crow joint. I would say,
mercifully hold that as long as humanly possible, but sure
it's time to take a long, hard look at the
scourge of Crow. Yeah, because what he's got. Jerry Maguire, Yeah,

(01:03):
I haven't seen it. Almost famous boring? Right? Aloha offensive
Elizabeth Town. Not offensive in the same way as Aloha,
but like offensively boring. We've got the Manic Pixie. We've
got yeah origins. Um. Anyways, The Bechdel Cast is FAMAS

(01:24):
Movie podcast. We use the Bechdel Test sometimes called the
Bechtel Wallace Test too, as a jumping out point for
a discussion, which is a media metric invented by cartoonist
Alison Bechdel that requires that a movie have two female
identifying characters with names that talk to each other about
something other than man. Can Cameron Crowe do it? I

(01:46):
don't think he probably not. I think he's ever done it.
You know, I think that Cameron I really like watching
We're doing Fast Times at Ridgemont High today. I really
didn't real eyes the amount that I find Cameron Crowe's
work to be annoying. Yeah, it's capacity for annoying me

(02:08):
in different ways knows no bounds. Sure, let's talk about it.
We have two guests today. We do, we do, Indeed,
we mustn't delay. They are comedians and hosts of Mall
Talk podcast, Page Weldon and Emily Faye. Hi. Hello, welcome,
than you having us Hey anytime. I am realizing right

(02:29):
now I'm really bad at knowing who made a movie,
who the director is, and I feel like I didn't
realize that Cameron Crowe did all those other movies like WHOA,
What a career, What a legacy? The legacy that Cameron
crow leaves is immeasurable. And we'll talk about this. But

(02:50):
so Cameron Crowe wrote the screenplay and then also wrote
the book that this is adapted from. Amy Heckerling directed
the film, and I found out that Amy Hackerling was
my age when she directed this movie, and it made
me feel like ship made me feel bad but good
for her, good for her, but maybe feel like sh Sure. Yeah,

(03:11):
so let's talk about your your relationship in history with
the movie. Uh, page will start with you. Um, I
had never seen it before. I have seen almost famous,
I have seen Aloha. You were one of the fourteen
people that saw Aloha. You know. I saw it as
a goof at that two dollar theater and it was

(03:34):
so it was like bad in ways I had not expected.
It was like I was confused during it. I didn't
know what was happening. I had never seen Past Times
a Ridgemont High. I feel like it was a classic
that just I skipped for whatever reason. And Emily suggested
as a very like mole movie. Um, and I watched

(03:55):
a couple of weeks ago for the very first time. Okay, also, Emily,
that brings to you. I saw it when I was
like younger. I think probably like twice, like once when
I was like younger, younger once it's like a teenager.
I could be absolutely wrong about this, but I could
be mixing up with something else. I have the memory

(04:16):
that maybe my mom recommended I watched it potentially is
like like maybe remembered it as like one of those
like classic eighties movies and not you know, but I
I could also be wrong on that. But I really
liked it. And then I hadn't seen it in years,
and I rewatched it last night. Um And I had

(04:40):
remembered so little about It's a wild watch. I had
seen it at least one I think once before, probably
in college, because I was like, oh, you know, that's
one of those iconic movies that you know, I have
to see. I didn't remember a single thing from it
except for like Jeff Spiccoli being like a stoner surfer dude.

(05:02):
Like that was the one thing, the one aspect of
it that I remembered, and nothing else. It all registered
in my memory. So when I watched it again a
couple of days ago, I was just like, oh wait,
Jennifer Jason Lee is in this, Judge Reinhold is in this.
Judge Reinhold is extremely in this, and you didn't remember,

(05:26):
like what the story was. The Force Whittaker is in
this movie. Nick Cage who is credited as Nicholas Coppola
before he was like, oh wait, nepotism maybe a bad
look for me. It is, so yeah, I don't have
a long history with this at all, but yeah, yeah,

(05:46):
there it is. I hadn't seen it either. I just
don't live as if you've been listening to the Cheffer.
While I just don't like movie most movies released in
the nineteen eighties. It's a time and culture that I
find very weird. It's pretty toxic time and annoying that
in like the early two thousands are like two times

(06:07):
that you're just like, ah, yeah, it's a very Republican
presidency going on right now. Um, So you know, I
hadn't seen it. Now I can't say that anymore, and
that's my I did wish I had seen it when
I was younger, because I felt like I kept watching
it and being like, honey, no, don't I want to

(06:27):
stay up top. I do like this movie. I think
it's a good movie, and I don't like most eighties movies.
I don't like John Hughes movies, but this one feels
different in a way that I think I kind of
think it holds up. Honestly, I think there's parts of it,
some parts they did do and then others really don't

(06:48):
um and we'll talk about them. But I mean, if
you're comparing this movie to other, like comparable mainstream eighties
teen comedies, I would say the most notable of those
are things like Revenge of the Nerds, sixteen Candles, Breakfast Club, Porkis,

(07:08):
like are so flagrantly problematic and toxic and horrible that
fast times. The Ridgemont High does feel a little bit
more progressive, but there are still it felt like reeler,
which makes sense because it's like based on camera, like
the backstories that Cameron Crow under cover actually based on

(07:34):
his experiences on girls. A weird man. He's a weird man,
but I guess he was young enough. He was like
in his early twenties and he went to high school
and he wrote about the I think it was in
Santa Something Claremont, San Diego, Dimont High in San Diego.
He yeah, he went undercover with like in participation with

(07:57):
the school's administration, like they know what they knew what
was happening ing. Uh. He went undercover originally with the
intention of writing like a nonfiction book, but then it
turned and then he turned it into a novel as
he was never been kissing in in San Diego. Uh.
And then that book was published in eighty one, and
then the film adaptation came out in eighty two. Yeah,

(08:20):
because it was like bought as a movie before the
book even like came at Cameron Crowe was a hot
property at this at this time because he was like
he started writing for Rolling Stone when he was sixteen,
and that's what Almost Famous is about. And there's I
don't know, he was like a little young writer prodigy
um that everyone was really excited about. And then Elizabeth
Town came out and that's just sort of the story

(08:42):
of this. I forgot to say, I hate Elizabeth Town.
Actually really loved Almost Famous growing up, and now the
way you guys are talking about it, I'm like, yeah,
I think most people do. I just find it. I
just say, who came? I really liked it, and then
I don't. I don't. I don't know what changed in me,
but I just I don't know. I don't. I don't

(09:03):
like it now. I also didn't know a camera crew
also wrote and directed say anything, which I have not. Oh,
that's that's when we must cover it. So I know
that's like on the must he's yeah, he's where isn't he?
But there? I do like it feels like this movie
is like written. It feels more authentic than other eighties
high school movies, which like yeah, because it's based on

(09:25):
at least some kernels of stuff that he witnessed. Um,
so a lot of it was like I don't know.
I mean, they're it's, it's it's there's there's a lot
going on. Should we should we talk about it? Let's
dive into the recap, so we meet some teens who
have jobs at the Ridgemont Mall. Oh, I should also say,

(09:46):
I think hard of the Other reason I watched the
first time when I was younger is because the exterior
of the mall is my childhood mall. No, that's not
the interior, but the exterior shots are the Santa Monica plays,
So that was big to me. Okay, having your mom
featured in a prominent movie is a moment. That's I'm
thrilled for you. That's really exciting. It is so weird

(10:08):
how many movies they shoot the exterior mall is different
from the interior mall. Now, are any of the malls
the Glendelle Galeria our favorite mall on the Pactol cast,
of course it's well not the Americana Well, okay, I
you know, America Guy is a pretentious elitist ship whole

(10:30):
without sand there. I there's the Dungan dunnuts is. I mean,
you're the like there, beautiful partnership, symbiotic relationship. The many
things I love about Mantonka is um, they don't choose
between the America Ga there. We don't compare beautiful women,

(10:51):
beautiful powerful women don't need to be compared their neighbors.
And that's see I'm die hard. Glendelle Galleria stand they
have and we can't take that away true anyway. So
the mall is where they work, and we meet Mark
Ratner a k rat He works at the movie theater.

(11:12):
His pal Mike Demone scalps concert tickets for a living
across the way Stacy. That's Jennifer Jason Lee and her
friend Linda Phoebe Kates work at a pizza place. We
see Stacy gets hit on by an older guy. She
tells him that she is nineteen. We find out that

(11:34):
she's actually fifteen, he's twenty six. They exchange numbers. Oh honey,
no moment. Yeah. We meet Brad Judge Reinholtz character. He
works at a burger joint. And then we meet Jeff
Spicoli Sean Penn of course, and he is a stoner

(11:57):
surfer dude who just kind of hangs around sound and
he seems to not wear a shirt very often. Classic
San Diego, right, and then we cut to Ridgemont High
where there are fast times. Um. Brad seems kind of
like a big man on campus. He's got a cool car.

(12:18):
Spicoli is stoned and he's late to us history class
with Mr Hand who gives him a hard time. Then
we cut this Mr Hand or Mr Ham Mr Hand.
Really the cracks are starting to show. I wonder if
his name that character like the real person it has

(12:39):
a name that is similar or something. Yeah, like he
just was lazy about changing it to something could be.
Then we see Stacy and Linda lunch. They're talking about sex.
Linda is more sexually experienced than Stay. She's also a senior.
Stacy is an incoming ashman. Linda is a senior. I

(13:01):
believe Mike is a senior, whereas Mark Ratner is also
a freshman. Right, And I do like the like when
to a two year age difference feels like gigantic and
seeing that as always, I love the Phoebe Kate's character
because it's so she's so absurd. It's like she's, yeah,
she seems more experienced, sure, but she's like that is

(13:24):
such a real person who's just like lying about like, oh,
totally totally. I know how to do. I definitely have
a fiance, but he just lives somewhere else. Yeah, so
I know everything and I'm going to teach you. I
was shocked that there was confirmation in story that her
I thought the twist was going to be that her
boyfriend wasn't real because like she's I feel like it's

(13:47):
set up like he might not know. She's like, well, yeah,
he's not around, he's older, and then he sends her
a letter at the end. I'm like, how old is
he well that I feel like it's so clear that
it's like this man that she thinks is like this
thing to and he's like he's just so dumb in
her own way about it's sadder than I see. I
think she wrote that letter as part of her bruise.

(14:13):
Sam's a scamp. I Like there's like those little moments
to where she like they're talking about like, oh, do
you come every time you have sex? And she's like, yeah,
I think you're seventeen, yes, okay. So then meanwhile Rat
is developing a crush on Stacy. They have biology class together,

(14:35):
and but Stacy goes on a date with that twenty
six year old guy. They have sex a k a.
A statutory rape happens, and then which is like very
much written like kind of eighties style dodge where he's
like you're actually nineteen, right, and she's like, ah, Hi.
Questions about that part two, which is if he's six,

(14:58):
why doesn't he have a home? They can to where
is that point? I was so overwhelmed by the rape
that I didn't I was like, oh, yeah, he doesn't live,
Like what is that? Maybe he's like married or something?
Where God, yeah, that entire I mean, that's like one

(15:18):
of the worst, like because you go to like a
baseball dugout and it's a wild like that's been the
pretty much the beginning of the movie. Yeah. So it's
very very jarring. Yeah yeah, and the movie doesn't seem
to think that much of it. It's like one of
those very weird, like culturally dissonant like, oh, this was
not a big deal, like it happens. Yeah. Um. He

(15:43):
sends her flowers after this, but then he never calls
her again. She never hears from him after that. Meanwhile,
we get this reveal that Stacy and Brad are brother
and sister. Oh my goodness. Brad, he's having a tough time.
He gets fired from his job, and then his girlfriend,
who he was intending to break up with, breaks up

(16:06):
with him first, citing the exact same reason that he
was going to use. Then Rat asks Stacy out and
they go out to dinner. She takes them back to
her house. They start kissing and she tries to take
things a little further, but he is visibly not comfortable
with going any further, so he makes an excuse and leaves.

(16:27):
He's not like the other boys. He's not nice. Yeah,
I want to talk about a little bit um. And
then we see Spole is getting in trouble at school.
He's dreaming about being a surf champion. He's driving Forest
Whitaker's car around like the big football stars, and his

(16:51):
car is a big deal. Car is a big deal,
but Speccoli crashes it, and in order to like make
it so he doesn't get in trouble, he makes it
seem like the rival school that they're about to have
a big football game with like messed up Forest Whittaker's
car right before the big game. Meanwhile, Stacy isn't sure

(17:12):
if Rat likes her, but then he and his friend
Mike come over for a swim. H Linda is also there.
Judge Reinhold jerks off to her in the bathroom. We'll
talk about that home. And I feel like the scene
that people remember from this movie probably i've seen I've
seen that scene before and I didn't even know what

(17:33):
this movie was about. Yeah. Meanwhile, Stacy starts to develop
a crush on Mike. He comes over to her place,
they start kissing, they have sex, and then he comes
really fast and then very abruptly leaves. Then later at school,
he blows Stacy off, and then sometime later after that,

(17:55):
she tells him that she's pregnant. Gregnant, She has already
arranged to have an abortion, but she wants him to
pay for half of it and give her a ride
to the clinic, which he agrees to, but then when
the day actually rolls around, he is nowhere to be found,
so instead she gets a ride from her brother Brad.

(18:16):
She's like, dropped me off at the bowling alley, I'm
going bowling, But then he sees her like run across
the street to the clinic, so he picks her up
from the clinic and he agrees to keep her secret.
He's like, you don't bowl like that? That was his
rationale behind calling her bluff right, And then Linda finds

(18:36):
out what ship head Mike was to Stacy, so she
sticks up for her friend takes revenge on him by
spray painting Prick on his car and his locker, and
then Rat confronts Mike about being shitty and like getting
with Stacy behind his back. Then the kids go to
prom you gotta at We're going to prom do, But

(19:05):
I like this one. This one wasn't made that big
of a deal of it. Wasn't like everyone's like, we're
all gearing up for prom. Yeah, it's just you know,
slice a life moment in their lives, some teens stance
and yeah, nothing wrong with that's a place for everyone
to be. Yeah, and then Mike and Stacy reconnect at
the mall. There's a scene at the end when Brad

(19:26):
is working at a convenience store where he stops a robbery.
So it's Rat and Stacy reconnect at the mall. Oh
what did I say? Oh yeah, sorry, So Rat and
Stacy reconnect. And then the scene with the robbery, Spicccoli
like distracts the robber and then Brad saves the day,

(19:47):
which is a very I had to double check to
be like, did the movie just end? But that's where
it ends. That's where it ends. We get all these
like the title cards of like and then here's what
they got up to after this big eighties movie thing. Yeah,
I kind of appreciate it. I want to know what
happens all. I want to know the day they die.

(20:09):
But yeah, that's the story. Let's take a quick break
and then we'll come right back for the discussion. And
we're back, thank god. Putting on couldn't couldn't win another second.
So where to start? Well, something something great is that

(20:35):
this was Amy Heckling's directorial debut. As you were saying,
for those that are not heck ruling heads. She goes
on to direct most notably clueless, but also, uh, luke,
who's talking? If you're as talking head, which I am,

(20:58):
have you seen that? Yeah? I love those movies. The
babest Kids. It's a kid. The baby's talk honestly, barely
remember I think that. Yeah, there's a both movies open.
Maybe there's even a third one who remembers. But there's
a lot of oh yeah, there's like's talking to and
luk who's talking now? Now he was talking to a
spelled t o O or okayfirming? Yeah, I think like

(21:23):
Bruce Willis voice is one of the babies. There's always
like an opening sequence of a bunch of sperms swimming
to fertilize an egg. Perfect and then should begin Yeah,
they should all begin that, because every sect starts ultimately. Yeah,

(21:44):
I used to love those movies when I was a kid,
But I could not tell you a simple thing about
new detail about you. You've seen every Look who's talking? Um?
So clueless and look he's talking and a National lampoon movie, right,
So she's like a legendary director. This was her her
first feature that she directed, so that's great. We very

(22:05):
rarely had to cover movies that are directed by women
at all, especially comedies, especially comedies. Yes, I was surprised.
I guess not surprised because we live in a world
where everything's horrible butty society, I suppose would have maybe

(22:28):
expected a movie directed by a woman to not fall
into some of the trappings that we see happen in
movies that are directed by men, most notably the male
gaze dream sequence that Judge Reinhold has where he is
masturbating to a topless Phoebe Kates. That was, Yeah, that that.

(22:54):
I want to spring to Amy Hackerling's defense a little
bit here by just um, you know, she's twenty seven
when she directed this movie. It was her first gig. Ever,
I don't think she was really in a position to
be pushing back a lot, and she like goes on
I think to kind of course correct on stuff like

(23:14):
that train movies like Clueless, But yeah, no, I totally
see what you mean. Um, that scene is so weird. Okay,
so I it's the iconic masturbation scene. I didn't realize
that that scene was a fantasy that doesn't happen in
the because it was like when I when we meet
Linda's character, I'm like, she doesn't seem like she would
just do that because she doesn't. But it's the only

(23:37):
scene that anyone like can recall top of head from
this movie. And it's so like I feel like it's
one of those situations where I'm not going to like
phrase this correctly, but like where the writing and the
like cinematography, it's like a little bit dissonant where it's
because it's like Linda's character isn't like that, But then

(23:59):
the visual was go way out of their way to
give you this big nipple moment that was just what
movies were like. You just did get to see everyone's boobs,
like I feel like, I don't know, and ultimately all
the men are made fools up. That is like that's
the thing. It's not like, oh my god, this like
out of nowhere fantasy where he gets to fuck her.

(24:21):
It's like he's jacking off the bathroom. She walks in
on him, like oh my god, and he's embarrassed. So
I kind of don't think it's like I don't know,
I think in context, like in the context of the movie,
I don't have a problem with it. It's just like
it is when one of those things where it's like
a NATS the scene that like stands the test of time.
I think just because that was for a lot of

(24:44):
young boys who watched it, they did jack off to that,
and therefore it was what they remember. But yeah, it
is weird that, like I had never seen the movie,
but I knew that scene. There's so many like better scenes. Yeah,
like actually, and then the fact that that fantasy, which
is like very clearly framed as like a dream fantasy sequence,

(25:06):
is juxtaposed against what's actually happening where she's like getting
out of the pool in a very neutral, non sexy
way and she's like in my ears and yeah, so
I'm like, okay, I I appreciated that. So she's not
like her character by the judge Reine horn character is
like made like a sexy meal of by just like

(25:29):
his horny teen brain. And also they are the sage,
which is because she's a senior too, you know, it's
not like his like little sisters like best freshman friend.
It's like they're both seventeen. Yeah, yeah, it's I don't
even know how to, like, I guess, articulate exactly why
it's like to me because it's like in the story

(25:50):
it makes sense, but something about it is just I
don't know, I mean, just the choice to include it,
it all in the way that it is included, the
way that it's it's a very eight decision. Yes. And
also just like the way female nudity is treated in
this movie is so of its time of like you
see a lot of female nudity, and I mean you

(26:11):
see you know, Sean Penn shirtless, but it's not that
like I feel like that's just sort of starting to
happen like now ish in like shows like Euphoria, where
it's like in shows about teen sexuality, you never see
male nudity really at all, and it's this like taboo
thing still um where like in this movie you see

(26:33):
like both female lead characters almost fully nude. When you
see fully nude and Jennifer Jason Lee and then you
see Phoebe kids almost nude, and with the men, it's
like that's just not an expectation that people had this.
I was actually thinking of euphoria while I was watching this,
and how well just in the sense where I was like,
there is like a fair amount of like boobs, but

(26:56):
like euphoria is like if we're talking worse but DICKI.
But also when they show boobs it's like in a
doggy style, like you know whatever, it's more gazy. Where
is this? I feel like, I don't know. This is
almost just like a result of the time that's just like,
so we'll have the part of the movie where we

(27:18):
show the main characters boobs, like I kind of feel
like the Jennifer Jason Lee like when her boobs are out,
it's like fairly sexual. I don't know, it's well, she's
pretty sex she is, but there's I don't know the
way where I just I was thinking about this show
that was made literally this year that is also supposed
to be teens having sex. It was like so sexual,

(27:38):
I guess what I like about you for it because
I don't like, I mean, there's whatever it shows fine,
but like the at least it's like equal opportunity nudity
where it's just like this is like like it also
I feel like kind of speaks to like who they're
making the movie for. You know, it's just like catering
to male gaze stuff, and like the female guys are

(27:59):
the straight and gas or whatever is like not really
like you get Sean Penn's abs a couple of times,
but other than that, it's like the women are when
we're sexualized because character are we supposed to think he's
like a hot guy? That question? Think you see him,
he's like the surfer dude and he has like the
hot babes at the beach and I'm like, well that's

(28:22):
another Yeah, that's that's about him. Yeah, I don't I
don't think so, Okay, that's a relief. Take a question.
I kind of do you think any of the guys
in it are actually supposed to be like someone that
we're supposed to think of as hunky? I don't know,
because Brad is always just kind of like keeps being

(28:44):
put in this position where he just keeps like kind
of being a loser. Yeah, and then at the beginning
I think he's supposed to and then they starting downhill,
and then like Mike Damon is such a cartoonishly's ball,
and then Mark Ratner just such a like sweet like nerd. Yeah,
I mean, I guess the thing I do like about

(29:06):
this movie is and and talking about how it feels
realistic to being a teenager. Is things like the fact
that losing your cool job just completely ruins your status,
like little tiny things just like ruin you. When in
the beginning he's going to break up with his girlfriend,
he's like, I'm a successful guy, and he's like he

(29:29):
cooks the burgers in a fast food joint. He's like,
I have a job. Going back to the sex scene,
especially okay, so the first one that we see between
Stacy and that twenty six year old guy, So, okay,

(29:50):
it is a statutory rape. She is underage. The movie
excuses it by like him thinking that she is a
He doesn't think yeah, but she he like barely tries
to find out. And he excuses it because at the
end of the day, it's like he's clearly painted as

(30:11):
like a bad, bad guy. I don't know who does
suspect that she is too young because he keeps asking it.
I don't know that I would say it excuses it,
but I don't know. The movie doesn't treat it like
that's what that is. And then also another huge issue
I have with this is that we're seeing we're seeing
her nudity while the actor, while Jennifer Jason Lee was

(30:33):
twenty at the time of filming, or at least at
the time of the release, her character is supposed to
be fifteen. And I just, I mean, call me a puritan,
but I have a huge problem with showing nudity of
characters who are who are supposed to be underage. That's
the I mean, that's the same thing with you for
you though, which I mean, I haven't seen that show,
but every sexy teen show that's ever been Yeah, isn't

(30:57):
that as long as it's like adult actors, Like that's
just kind of like the name of the high school.
I mean, And it's like I do think that like teenagers,
it like can just like benefit from I don't know,
like seeing teen sex shows when I was a teenager,
Like some of it sucked me up and others times
it was helpful and good. I don't I just don't

(31:18):
think it needs to ever be Like characters who are
supposed to be teenagers, we don't need to see them naked.
I kind of fair, I guess, I never I don't
know it's fair. But then that's like if we're talking
about that with that movie, it's also the whole larger
cultural movement where sexy teen shows and stuff really one
of the hugest genres right, definitely made me very uncomfortable.

(31:45):
Like that scene. I don't know, I I do think
the movie kind of gives them a pass in general.
I think that like I don't know, cutting out like
teen sex stuff in general just kind of like limits
the kind of stories that you can tell. I mean,
it could be implied that they have sex, or it
can be shot in such a way where it's clear
that they're having sex, but to show nudity, to show

(32:06):
like what's supposed to be fifteen year old breasts is like, no,
think that's doesn't I don't think we need that. Like
most sexy team shows are on the c W and
they don't show actually right, But I'm just bringing in
the euphoria thing again. It's like it is the same
thing as this thing that is happening in two thousand nineteen,

(32:27):
but even more so. And I'm most most things over
the years have not showed nudity, and that has been fun.
That's why we have nine O two and O and
the other like those sex and not not a tip
to be seen and that's totally fine. I feel like,
like talking about whether or not the movie like dismisses it,
I feel like, um, and I don't know if it's

(32:48):
just a result of me watching this when I'm older,
but I feel like there was this undercurrent of like
the issue of not getting information about sex and sex said,
and like having parents around like tell you anything, and
she she purely relies on her friend who's full of
ship to tell her what she should be doing, is

(33:08):
kind of the one who encourages it too, and it's
like she's wrong. It almost feels like she had that
experience when like another older friend telling her this is
what she should do. And I feel like it was
that was an interesting and kind of real thing to
me of like, oh, you just like don't know what's
going on and you just trust someone who's cool to

(33:29):
you or whatever. That's kind of I think the whole
realism of it is. I think that in this movie,
it's like Stacy is fifteen. She's basically pressured by this
friend who keeps going like I have a thirteen, that's
the problem. You've gotta have sex she's basically pressured by
this friend into having these bad experiences, which like older
men taking advantage of younger girls figuring stuff out is

(33:52):
a tale as old as human kind, and that happens,
but it doesn't like ruin her. And I think that's
what's kind of like revolutionary about this movie at the time,
Like she has this experience, the statutory rape experience, she
like has sex with this guy who's like a ship
and like has like an abortion, and then like at

(34:14):
the end of the day, it's like, and I know
that it's kind of aggressive to not like you know
that it does not acknowledge any psychological effects of those things,
but also that it's don't it doesn't judge her or anything.
Like at the end, she's she's like, I don't care
about sex. I want to have romance, and she gets
with this guy. Now she has like a nice, like

(34:35):
fifteen year old boyfriend and is like moving on an
ant appropriate boyfriend named rat there. Yeah, No, I mean
I think that there's like a lot of things with
Stacy's character that is done in like a way that
it feels grounded and right. It just like the statutory
right showing it is I feel like I was not

(34:58):
did not need to see it, and just the I
don't know, like for a movie that's made for teens,
I feel like you have to like at least make
some effort to be a little explicit about like that
was not okay because I feel like they kind of
skirt it but it's not. And it's like also very
possible that like Stacy didn't fully hadn't fully like processed

(35:22):
it and there, but it's just kind of like left there.
And then you know what I thinking when I was
watching this, because I knew it was like based on
a book, it really had the feeling to me of
when you watch a movie that's based on a book
that you've read and you're like, they skipped the part.
How do you understand? Like the first time I ever
saw like a Harry Potter movie after reading the Harry

(35:44):
Potter books where I was like, this is too fast,
where it almost felt like whenever they would like skip
over like someone processing or having an emotional reaction, I
was like, maybe it's in the book. Probably not, but
maybe I don't know. Feminist icon Cameron Crow, we have
to assume he addressed it. But yeah, that that whole

(36:05):
I mean, story point in general is just like I
don't even I don't even know if it was like
mishandled as much as it was just not at all.
It was just kind of like left there in a
kind of weird way. Yeah, but I think that's because
the only people she has to talk to are like
other teens who don't know that it's like a bad thing.
We never even see the parents, yeah, which that was

(36:28):
kind of cool, Like I was like, no parent movies.
Nines is when parents started being characters and stuff talking
about those like teen shows again, the parents started being
hot and also becoming characters with their own drama, like
nineties early two thousand's. I feel like that started becoming
a horny parents always have an affairs with other parents. Um. Yeah.

(36:54):
And then I mean, I I, okay, can we talk
about that. The friendship between Linda and Stacy, we like
sort of started to already, but I think its like, again,
it's like one of those very realistic friendships that will
happen in high school where you're it's like a two
year age gap feels like a million years. And like,

(37:14):
I was thinking about this girl in high school I
knew named Carrissa that I would have died for her,
and I like she was sucking genius when she was
the queen of sex, and I would have done and
I would have done anything she told me to. I've
made my dad like drive me to a Bright Eyes
concert and then drive around the block for three hours
while I went to the Bright Eyed concerts so Carrissa

(37:35):
would see me there and think I was cool. I
would have done anything. And so I'm like, oh, this
is very much like you know, a girl two years
older than you that who you would just do like
anything for, and that I mean, I think that my
main and I like that, even though Linda like and

(37:55):
I don't think if I was a teenager watching this movie,
I don't think I would have realized that she's full
of ship. I think I probably would have just thought
she was cool. This was also the first time I
put together that she was older. Oh, I don't think
when I was younger and watching it, I realized that. Okay,
I don't know if I even realize that until you
said it today, because talks about when she gets that letter,

(38:16):
and it's like he says he's not coming to my graduation, right,
and then in the end, thing it's like she's at
Ridgemont College now living with her Like I don't know,
but I mean I like that they're like friendship is
I mean it's based a lot of it's based on misinformation,

(38:37):
but like good things about it are they're like supportive
of each other in their weird sex endeavors. I like
when Linda like super jumps to her defense. Yeah, when
she's going through the abortion thing is it's not anything
where anyone passes judgment on her, including her brother. I
thought was really cool. That's like I feel like that's
a huge moment. Mostly, Yeah, it's worth just a whole

(39:00):
other conversation that we can get to. But it's been
in general like they have, uh friendship that's based on
misinformation and like maybe like some failures of parenting and
their job together. And I think my main thing was,
like I like their friendship. I just like wish that
they like we knew stuff about them that wasn't just

(39:24):
like a relationships. Yeah, I also do like and well,
I have mixed feelings about this because part of it's
pretty problematic, but um, Linda has a pretty just kind
of casual, cavalier attitude about sex where she's just like, hey,
it's no big deal, like whatever, And like I like

(39:45):
to see that attitude on the screen. Not to say
that everyone needs to have that, but we usually see
like girls being like sex is sacred and beautiful and
I can only have it with my husband, and like
male characters get to be promiscuous right out consequence exactly.

(40:06):
So to see you a girl. And we talked about this,
I think a little bit on a bonus episode on
American Pie, but the Natasha Leon character has a pretty
similar just like casual like sex is whatever, it's no
big deal. Again, just something I appreciate seeing now when Linda,
part of her attitude is that, yeah, fifteen year old

(40:26):
friend of mine, go have sex with this twenty six
year old man. My theory is Linda's a virgin. I
think Linda's virgin, and she's absolutely I mean they're all
lying like when like even she's the only one telling
the truth. No she's not. Because after that Mike thing,
when Linda's like day last and she's like fifteen to

(40:49):
twenty minutes and then she's like, yeah, my boyfriend last,
like and she's like I thought he's a thirty Oh yeah,
Linda's a virgin. But then also like Brad right in
the beginning when he's talking to the other person at
work and he's like yeah, and she's great in the sack,
and then like he turns to her to talk and
she's like, I don't want to have sex with you. Yea. Yeah.
Everyone is like, yeah, I think that Linda probably is

(41:11):
a virgin. I got very strong Mina Suvari in American
Beauty Vibes, so yeah, and you know, I thought that
movie but like like that characters are like, yeah, I'm
so sexually experienced, and then we find out that she
is in fact a virgin. Um, So yeah, it was weird.
At the beginning of that movie, it's not about like

(41:33):
if it's right for her to have sex with the
older guy. It's about how do we get him to
agree to this? Like all you gotta do is tell
him your nineteen that's the believable age because it's not eighteen.
Totally believe you, which it's like I never did that,
but I like, I never actually got to the point

(41:54):
of having sex with someone because that would have been
like scary. But I certainly like if a man was
Florida with me at Starbucks and was like, where do
you go to college? I'm fourteen, I'm like I'm nineteen.
I go to SMC. Which it's not like I'm actually
going to entrap them, like I'm not gonna have stuck
with them, but it's like you're safe. That's the thing.
I don't know, even if it's not about trying to
have sex, you do just want to appear older. There

(42:16):
is just a thing if it's like Okay, I'm gonna
go with this, gonna I'm gonna run with this. I
would go on like message boards and pretend to be
older and just talk to someone for fifteen minutes and
then get scared and delete the account. Is a relatable experience.
Let's take another quick break and we'll come right back. Okay,

(42:41):
here we're back. Here we are like, oh my GOSHU
should we talk about the abortion that? Yes, we shall.
Emily was saying this earlier. I was like very impressed
with how this movie handled it, especially for like the eighties,
where like they're like John Hughes wouldn't have handled it

(43:03):
this well, like they're Johnny has doesn't who like handles
nothing well kind of Um. I thought it was like
sometimes in this movie I find it frustrating that they
just present stuff and sort of have no comment on it.
But for this like story point, I thought it was
like really cool where like, you know, she has Stacy

(43:24):
has sex with Mike, she gets pregnant. She barely has sex,
which that's god. That scene is so upseting. So she
like Mike's insigner for two seconds, but he's very fertile,
which is another beautiful humiliating moment for a man or

(43:44):
a horrible boy in that movie or them get humiliated.
Such a cool guy, so funny, like oh he's a
ticket scalper's a huge loser. Uh. But she like, I
liked how that scene played out where it starts by

(44:04):
making a fool of Mike because he's like flirting with
a girl who doesn't seem to be interested in him,
and Stacy goes out to him, is like I need
to talk to you, and he's like, no, big is
big that she's pregnant. He immediately gets angry and blames
her and says it was her idea, and she shuts
it down right away. She was like no. He also says,

(44:25):
how do you know it's mine, implying like, oh, you're
probably like sleeping around with a bunch of different guys
might not be mine. She's like, it's definitely yours. Also,
don't say it was my idea, And he does take
it back, and he's just parenting something someone told him
you're supposed to say. At the older ones just seemed
like they got some bad advice from someone else older.

(44:48):
And then they're giving this young and then and then
she like, he is like, oh, well there. It seems
like he's sort of like telling her what an abortion
is and she's like, no, I know what one is,
and she already has it planned out. Yeah, Like and
then she's like and I want you to pay for half.
I was like, that was all pretty good, right, and

(45:08):
then and then she has the abortion. We see her
right afterwards. She seems and then like, Emily, you kind
of brought this up, but she seems like physically and
emotionally fine, because I think a lot of media would
have you believe that, like, I mean, an abortion, depending
on who's getting it, can be a very difficult physically
and emotionally taxing thing. But it seems like for Stacy

(45:32):
she bounced right back from it. It didn't like emotionally
ruin her. She's not like just sail regret and regret
and remorse exactly. She's And then when her brother realizes
what is happening and he picks her up from the clinic,
he doesn't judge her, he doesn't slut shame her, and

(45:52):
then he's like, oh, you're hungry, let's go get some food.
Like he just he treats her with respects very sweet
because it's like he drops her off then like in
his rear view mirrors sees her run across the street
from the bowling alley, so he's just waiting outside the
whole time, which is and then she just comes down
and because like no one's there to pick her up,
and then she's just like, Brad, don't tell my mom

(46:13):
and dad and he's like no. The thing that's weird
about that is like, um, it's sort of implied that Mike,
he tries to get the money, couldn't and he couldn't
and that's why he didn't come, Like he would have
given her a ride if he but he couldn't get
the money or something, right, which is like I don't
know why they went, And like maybe that's another like

(46:35):
very specific true thing that Cameron Crowe heard about because
I'm just like I didn't know, because I was like,
why include that? But maybe that's just I don't know,
Like he Mike ohs, Stacy an apology and most of all, yeah,
save the apology I will take the seventy five dollars first.

(46:58):
But what I also like about the storyline is that
when Rat finds out that Mike and Stacy had sex,
he gets mad at Mike rather than Stacy. He's like yeah,
and then Rat still likes Stacy and wants to reconnect
with her. He doesn't act like she's like, you know,
tainted or anything like that. After having I guess thing,

(47:21):
it's like, nothing is like, oh, she's ruined, right, because
a lot of guys especially would have that mentality and
a lot of or even a moment of like that
slut and then maybe he comes back around. He never
has that moment right now, He's like, how could you
do this to me? You are my friend? I like, yeah,

(47:42):
I like Rat Rat's book and it's a good boy.
He's a good boy and likes a classic movie. End
up with this guy at the end of the movie
good Boy. But unlike most of the eighties guys, he
doesn't super suck like because most eighties nerd characters there's
been like a bit and things written about how like

(48:02):
in like the like Proto in Cell entitled to women,
he doesn't feel entitled. He's just shy around her because
he likes her. And then at the end when she
gives him that picture of her, there I liked And
I also liked seeing that like a moment where I
feel like you don't see in teen movies a lot,

(48:22):
where like a moment during sex where the boy gets
uncomfortable and nervous, you don't really and like that's important
to see too, because that definitely happens in real life
and you just don't really They're like men are supposed
to be sexually aggressive and like they never want to
not have sex. And I feel like that's scene where
she's trying to have sex with him, it's so obvious

(48:43):
that that's just what she thinks she's supposed to be doing.
And she had sex once, so she thinks that they
see who she is now it's this like vixen, like
just sexual, and it's so right. It's like clearly that's
not who she is. He gets uncomfortable, but they're clearly
both like they both want to date, but they've been
told that dating or something different. By the way, there's

(49:05):
another thing. Mike is a fascinating character to me because
he's almost like a good friend. Like he he brings
him his wallet at the dinner. He like tries to
help him out. But even when he does that, it's
like a failure, like he couldn't do it subtly at all. Right,
he like totally gives him bad advice. Yeah, I have

(49:26):
a list of the okay, so he gives He says,
here's five dating tips that begins to rat and I've
broken down each one. The first is never let on
how much you like a girl, which means like be
emotionally withholding not okay. The second one is you always
call the shots, which is like be domineering, I guess,

(49:47):
And then the example he gives is kiss me. You
won't regret it, so it's like coercions. Um. The third
one is actually wherever you are, that's the place to be,
so it's like, okay, emotionally manif beulate the woman. The
fourth one is find out what she wants an order
for the both of you. It's a classy move, which
is what cal hot so it's like, you know, take

(50:12):
away her agency and autonomy. And then the fifth one
just kind of stupid when it comes down to making
out put on side one of led Zeppelin five and
it's like, okay, well, it's like it's very it's the
same thing that's happening on the other side. What's funny
is that immediately we see that everybody hates Mike, like

(50:32):
even in the end when like Rat is confronting and
he's like, whenever anybody talks shit about you, I try
to stand up for you. And like when he's like
always he's always like with different popular guy's being like yeah,
this guy's my buddy, like whatever, and then the guy's
just like funck off. And it's clear that none of
these tips work because everybody hates I forget what is

(50:54):
Mike's like thing that happens to him at that like
oh if he works at like write an oh he
got busted for scalping and now okay, cool, cool, He's
on the straight and arrow now. I mean in New York,
kuld have presented with these like two parallel like like
Stacy and Rat are both like the younger like being mentored,

(51:17):
and then you have the senior mentors. But yeah, like
Mike is like bullshitting just as much as as Linda is.
But on top of that has like this like projected
fake machiese mo. That makes him infinitely worse. Yeah yeah, yeah.
By the way, this is a total sign note. Did
you guys look up by any chance with the actor

(51:39):
who played Rat? Did? Later? No? But I didn't. He well,
he wrote a couple of for dummies books. Oh so
not not sorry, not the actor, not the actor who
plays Rat, but the the real life person that Rat
character was based on. Yeah, it's like a tech gene

(52:00):
is and wrote a bunch of like computers for dummies.
Thank you. I know I remember something about that. I
forget his name, not the actor, who knows what he did?
You want a Tony? Good for him? He was also
how to win a Tony for dumb five. He's twenty

(52:20):
five in the movie. That's what he looked like when
he's twenty five years old. Twelve years. I remember when
I got older and I realized that, like all the
people in teen Things are six years Okay, why don't
I look like that. I'm still kind of jarred sometimes
when it's like I have like a fourteen year old
cousin and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's what a four

(52:42):
looks like. On Riverdale, they're supposed to be sophomores. In
Third they're like twenty eight years old. It's like, obviously,
this is what we have to do. We can't actually
have teens. Rat He was based on Andy Rathbone, who
I don't know who that is, but apparently he's rich

(53:04):
and famous and is a computer. So um, it's just
like such a wonderful end for like a high school nerd. Yeah,
I um, I have just a quick list of so
you know, this movie comes out. It's like a you know,
in nineteen eighties teen sex comedy basically, so you know,

(53:26):
if you are comparing it to things, it's contemporaries things
like it is. It has funny parts, but it's more
of a dram kind of not really a comedy, right,
fun characters, right, and some good lines, but it's like
I would say, more like good dramatics life of life.
It's totally pretty light. But also I mean, yeah, there's

(53:48):
some heavy stuff in it, like an abortion things like that,
but it's it's contemporaries or things like you know. Again Porkies, Revenger,
the Nerds, which are super super problematically see either than wretched,
So it's it's less problematic than those, but there are
still some like nine eighties problematic things that happen. I

(54:08):
just have a quick list of them. Uh. Like, there's
an opening shot of like the kids in high school,
and one of the kids puts like a little sign
on the back of another student that says like I
am a homo. Uh, you know that doesn't get commented
on or anything like that. There's another moment where Speccoli
is having his dream sequence about being a surf champ

(54:30):
and he uses a homophobic slur. There's there's also some
just kind of like other male gaze shots where uh,
there's an upcoming football game at the rival school and
we like some of the girls are wearing shirts that
say like kill Lincoln on it uh to promote school spirit.
But like these are like very like headless women of Hollywood,

(54:50):
like male gaye shots of their chest and their butts um,
and then forgot about kill Lincoln Eascinatecoln. That's like a
good I don't think that's high school rivalry energy. Also,
I do think it's always funny in eighties movies where
I feel like that was before the cheerleader is a

(55:12):
popular thing got popular, and so every time in eighties
movies when there's like cheerleaders, they're fucking nerds because the
school spirit, like was not cool to have. It was
cool to not care. So the cheerleaders weren't like the
popular girl trove which they have there, and those girls
are just like the spirit squad. It takes a lot

(55:32):
of vulnerability to get up here and do something that
you know you're going to be made fun of. So funny.
Here's another thing that was like what is what is
this like an eighties thing or what? But Mr Hann
passes out like his syllabus to the class and then
everyone lifts up their paper and sniffs it. I don't
know what that one? What was that? I don't I

(55:53):
don't know what his name was, Mr ham so I
can't speak too smells like him. I like, yeah, I
have no one talking about the school spirit thing though,
I wanted to talk about Charles Jefferson, that is the
Forest Whitaker character. Um he and his brother are the

(56:15):
only two characters who are people of color who have
really any significant screen time at all, and even then
it's quite low. He's barely barely in it. And really
all we know about Charles is that uh AN alumni
gave him a nice car for playing football, and he's

(56:35):
very protective of this car. We know that he wants
to take his brother to the Earth's Wind and Fire concert,
but aside from that, we don't know anything about his
personal life. He's not given any sort of characterization. Really,
everything that we know about him comes from someone else's perspective,
and then in most scenes you see him in, he's
framed as being this like very agro intimidating person. So

(57:01):
it just to characterize like the only characters of color
in this way was a very just like regressive eighties approach.
And again it seems like this is like someone that
Cameron crow like observed and and then just proceeded to
not write anything for the character, which is like it's

(57:22):
kind of like not really much of an excuse to
not do that when he is not writing it from
life anymore. He's like basically on experiences and then adding fiction.
So it's like, yeah, then like let us know more
than one thing about the character and don't like ground
it in these like broad stereotypes. Yeah, for Cameron, I mean,
but I mean we all know and then he makes

(57:43):
a loha, so he's not really good. Yeah, but it was.
It was a delight to see a young Forest Whittaker.
Forest Whitaker is one of those actors. I'm like he
was born at Like it's so wild to see him.
I do think one of the best scenes in the
movie is um when Sean Penn and the brother are driving.

(58:04):
I do think that's one of them. That's one of
the most like comedy scenes definitely, because I mean it's good,
like the way he gets narrowly avoiding like getting in
a crash, and that it's just like there, I mean,
Sean Penn is making some choices. Sure, he's so blonde.
I just kept doing blonde. And I don't know if

(58:28):
we've we've recovered a movie that Sean Penn is in before,
we might not have. Well, for for I would feel
weird not mentioning that he has a horrible track record
with everything. He's hit a lot of ladies. Yes, he
is not a good persons bad and like during this
time specifically too, is like I think around the time
that he's dating Madonna and there's just old. He was

(58:51):
in his early twenties, which is weird because when he
was dating Madonna, he was dating her in the eighties,
so this might have been slightly before. But it was
like there is a lot of stuff. But there were
times where certain people wouldn't report him physically abusing them
because he was already almost in jail for hitting other people.
And just like there was this whole culture we have
to protect Sean Penn when it's like, no, we don't.

(59:12):
He's also strange watching him play a character. It's like
very chill. Yeah, it's because he decidedly not chill. Also,
I read that he he's famously going method for this
role and he refuses to go out of character at
any point on set. He makes people call him Spaccoli
only not worth it. But as far as method characters go,

(59:38):
I mean, this is the one I would prefer to
be around, and maybe he should have just stayed there.
Like people just go method for like sociopath and it's like, no,
you can't do this, then you're just being a sociopath.
This one. It's like, yeah, it's like chilled out before
I said it again, women rarely go method because they
would be fired, right, I know, I'm like most I

(01:00:01):
feel like when I think Sean Penn, I think like
fucking Mystic River, like into like where is my daughter?
Like that's this is not a classic, Like yeah, of
course Sean Penn. That that's very weird. Yeah, anyways, he's
a bad man. Yes, indeed, does anyone have any other

(01:00:22):
thoughts aside from him being a bad man? I do
kind of like how it wraps up with him and
Mr Hand at the end. What a goofy scene, Yeah,
because they've been like adversaries the whole time and it's
so weird. But it's like comes to his house to
house prom night, yeah, and doesn't let him leave for

(01:00:43):
prom because he wants to tutor him, but that he
tutors him and then was just like okay, yeah the
War Heaven, Okay, I'm going to the dance. So it's
so weird, but I feel like everyone gets kind of
a nice little wrap up. Yeah. I like that. I mean,
like we we know Linda goes to college. There's kind

(01:01:03):
of like a slight joke at her expense made about
like she and and she started like hooking up with
her professor um, which again that like sort of like
contradicted what I had in my head of like she
was not telling the truth about having sex, and I'm like, oh,
maybe she did. Don't think she's as I think she
has had sex. It has consistently been with like you know,

(01:01:24):
this thing where it's like guys who just don't really
care about her. Yeah, like this guy probably settling offhand
and she's like, he's my fiance and Chicago, and he's not.
He has no intention, you know, and so that I
feel like the professor would follow in that sure. Yeah,
Like I don't think anything she was doing this like
a full fabrication. It was just like based in something

(01:01:45):
much smaller, you know, all out of proportion. It was
just like all any character in this movie does, which
was all experienced. Yeah, I do like that. Um, the
judge runhold care your Brad is like gearing up to
break up with his girlfriend and he's like, it's because
I want my freedom and did, and then she breaks

(01:02:08):
up with him first and uses the exact same reason
for she's like, I'm a you know, and I like that.
It's like as soon as he gets fired, he doesn't
want to break up with her anymore because now he's
like something, and he's like, I'm so glad I have you,
And she's like, actually, I don't know what ended up
happening with her. I know, yeah, I don't find out
what happened to Lisa. But and she like literally yeah,

(01:02:31):
she just like tells him she doesn't want to have
sex with him when he's declaring himself king of the
world for having a purger flipping job, like it's all
very satisfying. What habit to Lisa? Camera? Just Lisa. I
think that's all I really had. Yeah, this movie, I
don't know. I was like pleasantly surprised by it. It's

(01:02:52):
better than most eighties teen comedies we've covered on the show,
which is saying something true. I mean back to the
Future I still stay on for and yet we did
give it zero nipples the bonus episode we did of it. Yeah,
I think it's just a very like of the time,
but also in some respects pretty progressive for the time,

(01:03:15):
especially like the way it handles abortion, I mean the
fact that it even features an abortion at all, I
mean in a non deferential way, like even still we
can come on one hand, the number of like mainstream
movies that even mention abortion let alone like have it,
and she's in a way better than obvious child. I

(01:03:36):
do think it's true because she ends up dating the
guy that she got an abortion from. Anyways, Well, yeah,
so I think that, Yeah, the fact that we even
get that at all is is very progressive for its time.
But then there's just the whole like there being a
statutory rape and it not being framed that way by
the movie, and like the teen nudity that I don't

(01:03:57):
think is necessary at all. Uh. Yes, so it's kind
of it's a little bit all over the place, but um,
I was pleasantly surprised that it's you know, not as
bad as some of its contemporaries in terms of like
toxic eighties mentality. Yeah, so it doesn't pass the Bechdel tests.

(01:04:18):
We don't think there's like think, I think maybe some
two line exchanges. It almost like there's one where they're
in the cafeteria and they're like, there's four girls who
are just exactly like pat Banatar this year, but which
almost is. But then it turns into her being like
do you think that guys think they're hard? Right away?
But that is almost looks just like Pata turned like yeah,

(01:04:41):
there's four I have tried to pay attention to, like, um,
if the guy has had any because I was like,
I feel like I noticed this too. They don't have
very many conversations that aren't about girls. Yeah, but they do.
There are a couple, like I feel like because I
was like, Okay, the reason why this movie I think
doesn't pass the Bechdel test is because it about sex.

(01:05:01):
It's like, so it's just that's what it ends up being.
So I was like, I wonder if if the boys
talk about anything else, and they like kind of do
I think it in the brother of Forts Whittaker's character,
like talk about the car history, you know, boy stuff. Yeah. Well,

(01:05:23):
even like the like the title cards at the end
that like like here's what everyone's up to. The girls
information that we're given is mostly about their relationships with
boys versus the boys. That we get information about the
boys or the men. It's like all about their job,
which is that same thing from The Royal Ten and Bombs. Yeah,

(01:05:44):
I thought that they only introduced the Marco is the
only one going to college. That's true, they do, and
he's the only one who made it to college. She
gets a sentence. Um, but yeah, it doesn't. It doesn't.
It does not pass the bile test. We're pretty sure, right,
I might might pass a little bit, but yeah, I don't.
I don't think so. I mean just because yeah, it's

(01:06:07):
like almost and then those exchanges kind of turning. Yeah,
the context of almost every conversation is about like boys,
one of my there's even you know, like one line
like Stacy being like I cannot do another summer. Oh yeah,
Stacy says she said something like, um, oh I can't
keep working here or else I'm going to get so

(01:06:28):
fat that no one will want to take me out.
And it's like I was even thinking near the end,
it's just like I can spend another summer at Perry's. Yeah,
but I think there's maybe a few small, like two
line exchanges by our very low bar would pass. But
the context of almost every scene, conversation, storyline is like

(01:06:48):
hetero romance and sex checking in with what's going on. Yeah,
so there you have it. Uh, let's write the movie
on our nipple scale zero to five aipples based on
its representation of women. This one, O. God, it's a
really such a mixed bag for me because like, on
one hand, like I really like how the abortion thing

(01:07:10):
is handled. But I would give this like a two,
I think because it's still you know, harboring a lot
of like nineteen eighties stuff. I mean that's the thing.
It's like when you talk about a movie that's about
like romance and sex, Yes, a lot of it's going

(01:07:31):
to be about like what the female characters. What we
know about them is what boys they like, how much
they like them. It's you know, it's very geared towards
like their interest in boys, just by the nature of
that kind of storytelling. But I don't know, they still
could have been characterized a bit more. We could still
like know what their favorite subjects in school, maybe, what

(01:07:52):
they want to do when they graduate, what are their fantasies.
Get to see boys fantasies? Yes, and then just the
encouragement of like, yes, uh, you're fifteen year olds old,
but you should have sex with this twenty six year
old guy. Hate it? Um, So yeah, I'll stick with
a two. I'll give one nipple to Stacy and one

(01:08:19):
to Stacy's mom. She's got it going on. We do see,
she taught reference. She tucked her into bed right before
her You do see you hear your parents, and you
see their hands, you see your faces, your face. Wow,
She's like, good night mom, and then she sneaks out
the window. High. Um. I guess I'm gonna go. I'm

(01:08:43):
gonna probably be too hard of it, like for listener context.
Because I just gave Little Women a three and a half,
I feel like I cannot give this ste too. Yeah,
I'm going to give it a I think I'm gonna
give a one and a half. It does a lot
of things that I wasn't expecting it to do at all,
do really well, Like I can't think of a I
think a more like straightforward, effective, non judgmental abortion plotline

(01:09:07):
in another teen movie off the top of my head
at all, Like I thought that was like great, um,
and then yeah, just kind of kind of echoing what
you said of stuff that and just like basic writing
stuff of just like there were very easy non and
like stuff that wouldn't even change the story ways of
just like flashing out the female characters a little bit

(01:09:28):
more that either Cameron Crowe was not able to do
or like what whatever I mean, It doesn't seem like
he has a very coherent understanding of women based on
his work um so in this in this instance, he
simply did not try. Um. The same thing was like
people of color, just like no attempt to characterize them

(01:09:49):
at all, which is include them hardly at all, which
is like the Sophia couple of school of writing non
white characters, which is just I don't know. So I
want you're just like that's can't that can't be it.
But but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think
like Amy Heckerling, this being like her directorial debut is
like awesome, and I like all the performance like all

(01:10:11):
the all the performances are great. I like that you
sort of see humiliating side to male sexuality in like teens.
I like I like the way that rats like masculinity
is written and shown. Uh. And I just it's nice
to see like teenagers that sort of sound like teenagers
and are making the mistakes the teenagers would make in

(01:10:34):
a lot of kids. The more I think about, the
more that like American Pie rips off so much from
this movie that Jason Diggs character is basically rat but horrible.
But yeah, that movie I think is far worse. It's
far more toxic. Yeah. Anyway, um, yeah, I'll do when
I have I like genuinely enjoyed most of this movie. Yeah,

(01:10:55):
and then I'm gonna give give my nippies to Phoebe
Kate's because she is one of my favorite musicians. Mom Oh,
Frankie cosmos Um is the child of Kevin Klein and
Phoebe Kids. I didn't know that she and Kevin Klein
they've been married for her, Like you learn some story, great,

(01:11:21):
how about y'all? Um? Okay, I mean, I guess I'm
gonna go a little high. I want to give it three.
I'm taking context into account a little bit, thinking like
between this movie because it's eighty one and like Book
Smart forty years that is forty years different, and that
this one it has like the protagonist in this teen

(01:11:43):
sex comedy is a girl who was like figuring out
sex and stuff, and it I feel like it treats
her as like valid and like as opposed to just
I feel like it kind of does like subvert a
lot of those eighties tropes where is the protagonist would
in another movie would have been rat or would have

(01:12:05):
been Brad or like something like that. And I kind
of think, like at the time, like if you were
a teenager in eighty one. This movie would have been
like seeing this movie compared to most of those movies
at the time, if you were like a teenage girl,
I think that would have been huge. And he like
dignified representation. And I think like a lot of the

(01:12:29):
I don't know a lot of the negative stuff in it.
It doesn't deal with it enough, but it's not untrue,
like just because it sucks and it is it like
is an unpleasant fact of like life, doesn't mean it
doesn't actually happen. It happens all the time. So I
kind of like that it like presents that and in
a way that isn't like earth shattering, you know. And

(01:12:52):
then I'll give one to um Rat because he's a
nice boy. Um. I'll give one to the Cardigan in
this movie. Um, they're really good Cardians. And UM one
to Phoebe Kate's hair, um, because it's doing great work. Really,
how many aerosol cans went into um? Okay? You know,

(01:13:18):
it's interesting when we talked about like, okay, representation of
women versus teen girls, you know what I mean. And
so it's like, obviously teen girls are complex human beings,
but they're it's different, you know what I mean, so
it's like a lot of the moments where I feel
like we're maybe missing some greater like emotional arc or something.

(01:13:41):
I think it's maybe not a great excuse just being like, oh, well,
they're just teen, so they didn't really think about it. Um.
I think we've seen a lot of things about teens
where we get much deeper than that. Um. But I
think too seems fair. I also enjoyed watching this movie.
I think it has a lot of very fun characters,

(01:14:02):
and that's always my favorite thing in like eighties like
teen like any kind of like high school movie is
really good characters. Like I mean, obviously we have our
issues with Spaccoli, but he's a very fun character. The
issue not but totally as an entity is fine, but

(01:14:23):
unfortunately is casting. Okay, I will give a nipple too.
I feel like nobody has given one to Brad. What
a little nice guy, sweet to his younger sister. I
feel like a lot of the time you see siblings
in high school together and the older one is like,

(01:14:44):
don't talk to me, and I'm a hard worker. It's
like he said at the beginning, a successful guy. I
also like that, Well, I guess he was going to
break up with his girlfriend and give her her freedom
to explore. But then I guess he actually wasn't going to,
so never mind on that um and then I would

(01:15:06):
give the other one to Linda because I just like
that character. I like Linda a lot, just such another
fantastic like that is such a true like high school girl,
the girl who feels like she has to act more
mature than she is and then spray paints. Yeah, I

(01:15:29):
really like how immediate. At least she's just like, he's
not a human, he's a little pray yeah. Oh god.
When he just covers it with what are people going
to think? Well, thank you, thank you so much. Where
can people follow you individually and then as a podcast

(01:15:52):
tell us everything? Okay? Um? I am at m l
E like the letters um fae f A y E
on Twitter and Instagram. I am at Page Weldon on
Instagram and Twitter. And you can follow our podcasts too.
It's called mall Talk. It's on the Forever Dog Network.

(01:16:14):
It's about them all if you can imagine, um about
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(01:16:36):
But if you don't, you can find us at not
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(01:16:57):
and so many. Yeah, and it's at patreon dot com,
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cast um. And yeah, thank you for listening. Is there
like a line from this movie that people quote