John Wick with Vanessa Guerrero

On this episode, secret assassins Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Vanessa Guerrero check in to the Continental and chat about John Wick. 

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zefan best start
changing it with the Beckdel cast. Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlin,
that is a really cool car, and that's a really

(00:23):
cute dog. I just wanted you to know what, hay,
if something happened to them. Alfie Allen should have said that.
I would have liked his character so much better if
he if he had just really late it on thick
like that. God, I can it's so wild that, um, well,

(00:47):
welcome to the Bechdel Cast. But just a second. It's
so wild that, like Alfie Allen, is I know a
person that exists in the world. I watched Game of
threnth and everything, but I confuse him with my crush
Bill scars Guards so easily only to look up the future, yes,
only to look at future John Wicks, and who is
there but Bill scars Guard. I think he's going to

(01:08):
be in the next one. Yeah, wait, okay in the
fourth one. I was like, I didn't see him in
two or three? They missed the vibe of the bug
eyed boy they gotta bring it back, they gotta bring
it back. Oh well, well, this is the Bectel Cast.
My name is Jamie Laftus. My name is Caitlin Durante,
and this is our show where we examine movies through
an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test simply as

(01:31):
a jumping off point. But Jamie, what is it? Well,
I can let you know, Caitlin Durante. The Bechtel test
is a media metric created whoa Hello created? What if
they did? Ah? This is here's a horrible pitch for
our April Fools episode Baby Talk Pass. It is hey

(01:55):
media metric created by Ker cartoonist Alice Becktel, sometimes called
the Bactel Wallace Test. Lots of different versions of this test,
Here's the one we use. The test requires that there'll
be two characters of a marginalized gender with names speaking
about something other than a man for more than two
lines of dialogue should be meaningful. Does it happen in

(02:18):
this movie? I'm brady sure, But that's why a franchise exists.
So that is that's why every movie needs at least
three movies, so that by the third movie women might
talk to each other. Yeah, you need three movies. Yeah,
and I'm not even sure if it happens by the
end of the third John Wick movie. Oh, I think

(02:40):
they all talk, but not to each other. Oh that
is always so bizarre and dissonan when they're like, we
got two women in a room. They're never gonna know that.
But yes, in honor of the new John Wick, the
Bill Scars Guard John Wick, if you will, we're covering
John Wick one twenty fourteen. I didn't realize it came

(03:01):
out so long ago. It's almost ten years ago. Oh yeah,
it's been a while. I'm also referring to four not
as The Bill Scars Guard one but the Arena Sawayama one. Yes, yes,
that is truly. What's gonna get my ass in the
seat is her? It's her acting debut, right, yes it is.
It's her acting debut, and it's going to be in
this major franchise. And also one of my all time

(03:22):
favorite action stars is in. It's Scott Atkins, so I'm
like losing my ship. He's the king of the home
movie box office when it comes to action movies. He's
constantly punching above his weight, and in this one, I
fear he might be in a fat suit, but we'll see.
I'm not sure I can tell from the posters. When
will they not do that? I am? I am very

(03:45):
thrilled about the arena Sawayama element to the four and
I just pray that she is a pop girlie who
can hoo can act? I hope we're getting We're getting
a Lady Gaga situation. Yeah, time will tell. I can't wait. Um,
but wait, who the hell is that talking? Is that

(04:06):
perhaps one of our all time guests? It's just it's
just our guest who is a host? It is not
my best transition into introducing a guest of all time,
but wait, what the fuck? No? I thought it was
really good. Who is the other arena stand in the chat?
She's host of the podcast Popcorn and Pixels. You've seen

(04:27):
her on Shutters, Behind the Monsters, and you remember her
from our episodes on Maide in Manhattan, Raw, Atomic Blonde,
and Bound. So this is her fifth apparent on the show.
It's Vanessa Guerrero. Thank you so much for having me on.
I love doing the show. In the mail the five

(04:50):
timers jacket that doesn't actually gist, but someday, someday it
will be. It's a picture of the two of y'all
doing a thumbs up, and it's embroidered and it's the
or exactly and you give it to someone when things
are getting serious. Yeah, it's a letter in jacket. Yeah,
we're so happy that you're back. And I feel like,
over time you sort of become our our go to

(05:12):
action movie expert. I love that, especially because one of
my favorite things in the universe is constantly showing up
men at things that they enjoy and like it's a
beautiful thing. I love being an action movie person and
knowing that there are several men that are like, I
wish it was me. Oh, that does sound very powerful.

(05:36):
It's a delicious feeling. That's I wish. I don't think
I can do that. I think that I'm just like
I think. I'm like, hey, guy, i'm dating, do you
want to know everything about beanie babies? And usually he's
like no, and he doesn't wish. Yeah, Well, the thing
is he doesn't wish it was him, and maybe he

(05:57):
doesn't even wish that he was in the room. Well
screw him. Then, yes, this person I just made up Vassa.
What is your relationship with John Wick the franchise, etc.
I love the john Wick franchise as an action fan.
The john Wick franchise is so indicative of like such

(06:20):
a major turning point for the genre because specifically like
American action, like Korea, Indonesia, Japan, China, they'd been they'd
been putting out action movies that had been like consistently
fantastic for years. American action had taken such a downturn,
especially because of the movies like later Jason Bourne movies
and Taken, where it's a lot of like frenetic editing

(06:43):
and like twenty one cuts to get an old man
over offense, like very jumpy, very like that two thousand
style of like shaky cam footage, And there wasn't as
much like focus when it came to like choreography fee
and really like not even just getting like great choreography
and it nailed down, but like how we shoot choreography

(07:06):
and really doing it the justice that it deserves. And
John Wick when that movie came out was such a
renaissance for American action fans where you started seeing people
care about how they shot action again. And I love
that the franchise has also become very self aware and
knows sort of where it stands and like American action history,

(07:29):
which is why the casting announcements are more exciting for
me than it feels like what I imagine, like a
football draft feels like to someone where I'm just like, yeah,
we got another one. Yeah. I feel about succession casting
announcements when exactly when they're like Adrian Brodie, you're like
what they're like sona late, like what or like White

(07:51):
Lotus where it's just like, oh my god, that lineup.
That's how I feel about the john Wick series. Yes, Also, yeah,
it taps into a very petty core of me. At
while I've done so much, like work in therapy and
improvement to be somebody that can like move on from grudges,
john Wick taps into the part of me that which
is I can do undo all of that hard work

(08:11):
and just be a petty bitch on the trail for revenge.
I do love a revenge narrative, so I love it.
Jamie whats Beagles. That's my history. Now, my history with
the john Wick franchise is very minimal. As I think
I've said on this show time and time again, Action
has never really been my go to genre, even though

(08:34):
Keanu Reeves. I would say it's one of my go
to people that I like to look at and engage
with the legacy of. Oh yeah. Something I've been saying
on the show for the entire run of the show
is that I used to see Keanu Reeves every Wednesday
at the bookstore I worked at, and he'd always get
a book of Sudoku puzzles and one of the new

(08:55):
hardcover fictions. Always hardcover, not softcover for this guy. He's
a Millionaire's gonna want the hardcover exactly, come on his
motorcycle and changed my life. He's a good man by
all accounts. He's the most attracted that I've ever been
to a sismail in my life. It's he's kind of scary. Yeah,
I love Keanu Reeves. Action movies are a harder sell.

(09:18):
I did remember as I was preparing for this. I
mean how much I loved Atomic Blonde, and there are
things about John Wick that I did like, even outside
of Keyanu Reeves. I liked. I really liked learning about
how this movie came together and how it's like these
legacy stuntman who worked with Keyanda Reeves that ended up
like directing this incredible. I mean it looks beautiful and

(09:41):
like as an action movie. Even as someone that doesn't
know a ton about action movies, You're like, yeah, this
is a beautiful action movie. This is like fucking wild.
It's all that bisexual lighting. Yeah, this, I feel like
this is like kind of the great stand. I can't
think of a more bisexually lit movie. This may be
the Golden standard or the Blue and Purple standard, whatever

(10:01):
we're calling them. Yeah, that entire bathhouse scene could have
been like a low five beats yes, yes, exactly. And
then I mean, you know, watching it with a Bechtel
cast lens on, I'll admit it was a challenge. But
I yeah, I've only seen so I've only seen the

(10:22):
first movie. I watched the first movie to prepare for
this episode, and I'm definitely going to see the fourth
for Rina Sawayama purposes, and I look forward to being
sold on watching the two sequels before then. The third
is definitely the better of the two. Okay, my first,
the first bitchy little thing I am going to say
about John Wick and everyone's could getting upset and scream

(10:44):
boo tomato tomato open opening this movie on Deadwife dot
MP four. I was struggling yea and ending the movie
also on Deadwife dot MP four. I gotta say once
again I was struggling. But every time I see Deadwife
dot MP four, I could do that. So if anyone's
trying to look for a dead wife, I feel like

(11:04):
I can conjure that energy quite easily. Beach breeze in
your hair, John, what are you doing? I was confused
what you meant at first? You mean, if someone's looking
to cast a role in a movie where they need
a character's wife who is now deceased, you're available to
play that part. Yeah, I understand. I feel like I
act like a dead wife every single day. I think

(11:28):
anytime there's like a if a boyfriend has a phone
and it's on and it's at me, I'm going to
act like a dead wife because you never know what
do you do? What are you doing? Stop? I've romanticized
white life like a dead wife. Oh Like, I wear
a lot of like ponchos around the house and I
hold lugs with two hands. You're like kind of like
do a lot of hair work. You're like sort of

(11:49):
playfully just like kind of rolling around under the sheets
like t he he Yeah, it's morning, and I never
I never sweat. I would never sweat in that circumstance. Yeah,
if I'm at the beach, you know, my hair is
just so and I'm like, stop, what are you doing? Yeah,
that's beautiful. Can't then what's your history with the John
Like franchise? I had only seen the first one. I

(12:15):
don't know why I never got around to the sequels.
I liked the first one, and I love action movies.
I am a big action movie head. But I simply
have no excuse, no reason why I had not seen
the sequels, but I did watch them to prep for this.
We won't go into a lot of detail, but there
are a few, like noteworthy things that indicate some kind

(12:39):
of like evolutionist the franchise goes that I want to
touch on. But um, we'll focus on the first movie,
and I will share a quick recap of the two
sequels for anyone who wants to hear those. But yeah,
I very much enjoy the franchise, especially now that I've

(13:01):
seen the three movies. I'm excited to see the fourth one.
I'm a fan and Keanu reeves absolutely National Treasure, untouchable. Yeah,
mister sexy. Oh my gosh, the hair, the scruff, the suits,
the fact that he moves like a Judo ballerina perfect.

(13:24):
I love the like I mean just I feel like
most Keanu Reeves movies have just like X Games level
stylistic choices, and I love that. But how like you
can just tell John Wick is in bad boy mode
when he uses hair gel, but when his hair not gel,
he's good boy. He's good boy. It's it's helpful for
me yea to know when he's going to be bad

(13:46):
and when he's going to be good. When there's volume,
he's going to be good. Yeah, when there's when there's volume,
he is husband. He's crying, his wife is gone. He's like,
oh my gosh, I better feed the dog. When he's
hair Jel, who you don't want to know. It's the
equivalent of plas like standing up, ladies, get out of
the room. That's what he's doing when he's got the
hair Jela. It's the equivalent of the putting your hair

(14:07):
up in a ponytail moment in Birds of Prey and
ba Yeah, I think it's the hair time. Don't let
your hair in the way as you're fighting. You gotta
slick it back. You gotta put it in a pony something.
John Wick gets it. I also didn't know that. Um,
Willem Dafoe and John, like Wizamo, I wish there was
more John. That's maybe that's one of my big things

(14:27):
with John Wick. Where bring John? Does he come back
in future movies? He's in the second one? Yeah, I
don't know if he's in the third one. I forget
I was smiling so much. I don't remember him in
the third one. But I love seeing him in it,
Like Willem Dafoe, John, like zamo Ian McShane, those are
like my good boys, Dean Winters. Like, yes, they put

(14:48):
Dennis in it. That was exciting for me. Dennis Duffy, man,
I really I love character actors so much, and usually
I can, you know. I mean, when you look at
William Dafoe, you can maybe you know, you would be
like that's the Green Goblin, or yeah, you're like, oh,
I understand how actors work. That's Willam to felt. But
something about Dennis Duffy, I just like he can't not

(15:09):
be he was too good at it. Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah, Um,
should we get into it. Let's get into it. Yeah,
let's do it. Okay, but first let's take a quick
break and then we will come right back. Jamie ask

(15:32):
me if we're back from break, Kaylan are back from break? Um,
I don't know. We're just sort of like working through
some stuff. I'm not sure if we're back. This is
going to pay off later after the next ad break.
Just you wait and see. Anyway, I see where you're
going and I'm there, thank you. What if the exchange

(15:53):
pretty early in the movie, Oh, it's with John Languizamo
where Vigo calls him and he's like, hey, why the
fuck did you punch my son in the face. He's like, well,
because you stole John Wig's car and killed his dog.
And then he just goes oh, Like this movie rocks. Excellent,
excellent world building. Like I think that's my favorite thing

(16:15):
about the John Wick lore is just characters reacting to him.
Tells you everything you need to know exactly the show
don't tell and this is show all the way. Yeah, okay,
so here is the recap for John Wick one. We
open on a scene where Keanu Reeves recks his car

(16:38):
into some concrete. He stumbles out. He's injured and bleeding,
from what we will find out is a stab wound.
He's kind of dying. And then he takes out his
phone and watches a video of his wife, his wife,
his wife. He opened the steadwife dot MP four. Yes, John, John,
what are you doing? Are you still filming? John? What
are you doing? And he's loving you so damn much,

(17:02):
and she's like, stop, you're loving me too much. Yeah,
you're loving What if I'm gone one day? That'll never happens, okay?
And then oh, but then you see you see the
director's cut later of dead Wife dot MP four. I
want to direct a whole movie called dead Wife dot
MP four. It's just all vibes. But like you see

(17:22):
the director's cut later on and she's like, let's go home,
like classic dead wife talk. Let's go home. Anyway, So
this this was her job, John, What did she do?
Oh my god, we don't need to know anything about her,
just kidding. Her house was fantastic, so she had to
have done something. Well, I know, it's like, is that
like hit man money or was she like a fucking

(17:45):
doctor or something? I don't know. Column a column baby.
The house built on taking out hits and then trying
to save the people that had the hits taken on them. Ooh,
that's a good scam. I would love that movie. Scary.
There's a case I read about called I mean, this
is actually pretty evil, but like an evil doctor or

(18:07):
like a rehab a rehab doctor who bought a hotel
and would deal drugs out of the hotel to get
people addicted to the drugs, and then they'd be like,
oh no, I'm addicted to the drugs. And he's like,
funny because I own a rehab center about across town.
It's very evil. They called him the candy Man. Wow. Anyways,

(18:28):
these things happen and I would watch a movie about it. Yeah,
let's write it. Okay. Anyway, this person we've just met
is John Wick. We flash back to John Wick at
home shortly after his wife Helen played by Bridget moynihan,
has passed away from an illness. He is devastated. He

(18:49):
then receives a delivery. It's a puppy that his wife
Helen arranged for him to receive after her death so
that he still has something someone to love. The puppy
is a little beagle named Daisy. It's very, very cute.

(19:09):
She's so damned cute, the fact that it's my childhood
dog's name. I wanted blood. I watched this with my
mother and she looked at me and she was like,
I want everyone involved to suffer, and I was like, Yeah,
that's what that's what this movie's for. That's what the
movie's about. That. I think the only thing I knew.
I think I think it is kind of I mean,
we'll talk about this later in the episode. I think

(19:31):
it is kind of interesting where it's like, the only
thing I knew about John Wick was that the first
movie's thrust was he's trying to get revenge on the
people who killed his dog. But then I was like, oh,
I mean, not to undercut how horrific it is to
lose a pet, especially to a violent act. But I
was like, mmm, it's interesting how that his wife never
comes up in any of the popular descriptions of the movie. Yeah,

(19:52):
but it's well, it's weird that it's a morning dog, right,
It's like he's only so upset about the dog because
it's like an extension of his wife. His wife. Here's dog, yes, exactly,
his beagle. So John Wick takes his dog out in
his Cool Boy nineteen sixty nine Mustang and he stops

(20:15):
for some gas where a group of very agro men
are also getting gas, and one of them is a
guy played by Alfie Allen who is like, hey, cool dog,
cool car. How much would you sell it for? And
John Wick is like, the car's not for sale, and
then Alfie Allen insults him in Russian, but twist, john

(20:38):
Wick speaks Russian. They're shaken to their core when he
speaks Russian. Yeah, They're like, what the fuck a person
speaking another language? You're like, it's Keanu Reeves. I assume
that he speaks every language. He's like a poke dex
exactly exactly. And john Wick leaves after this interaction, and

(20:58):
Alfie Allen is like, who does doc I think he is?
And then that night, he and the other guys from
the gas station break into john Wick's house. They beat
the shit out of him, they steal his car, and
they kill his dog. John Wick does not like that
this happened at all. He's pretty he's pretty miffed. Yeah,

(21:21):
he's freaking pissed. He's p oed and so, and we
don't even know what he's capable of at this point.
We don't we do not because we have not yet
gotten the big reveal. But john Wick sets off. He's
still covered in blood. He gets on a bus. He's
trying to figure out who these guys are and how
to find them, so he goes to John Languizamo, who

(21:44):
tells him that Vigo Tarasov's son Joseph, that's Alfie Allen,
is the one who stole his car and killed his dog.
So john Wick gets a new cool boy car and
he takes off. We also meet this Vigo guy. He's
a crime lord of some sort, like a mob, but

(22:07):
he's your friendly neighborhood, yes, And he goes to his
son Joseph and is like, you fool, you messed with
john Wick and John Wick is not someone who you
mess with. And this is when we learn that John
Wick was a former assassin. He was very good at

(22:27):
his job. He has a reputation for being Bobba Yaga
or the Boogeyman. And Vigo is like, I saw him
kill three men with a pencil one time. I love
that this is eventually shown in the series. Yes, oh
is it? Yes, that's very fun. It's referred to another
time and then you do see him kill I think
it's two guys with a pencil. Yeah, I learned shout

(22:48):
out cross promo fellow. I heard slash Kus on media
podcast Margaret kill Joy's Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff.
We did an episode about Bobby got just as a
folk tale and Bobby Agat typically coated as a as
being a woman. Um So I thought it was interesting

(23:09):
that in this lore Bobby is I mean, Keanu Rus
is more of an idea, you know, like he transcends gender. Yes,
but I thought it was interesting that in this movie
it translates to Boogieman. But anyways, there's there's a lot
of different sort of versions of Bobby Aga. God. Um
I had something else to say there, but it's gone.

(23:30):
What can you do that, it's Bobby Gone. It's okay,
wish wish oh. I was gonna say when that whole
sequence where we're slowly learning that John Wick is the
scariest person in the world, it almost felt like the action,
like the brooding action movie version of that sequence from
Mean Girls where everyone's talking about Regina George, especially the

(23:51):
pencils part, like that sounds you can picture a student
saying that about Regina. John Wick murdered someone with a pencil.
So then I murdered someone with a soul. John Wick
punched me in the face once. It was awesome. That's great.
Um okay, So we're learning about John Wick's reputation. But

(24:13):
John got out of the business a few years prior
because of his wife. Yeah, he's like, I'm marrying an
army by guys, like a YouTuber or something. She's an influencer. Yeah,
that's why she looks so good on camera. Anyway, Joseph
is like, well, no big deal. I'll just kill John

(24:35):
Wick and then we won't have to worry about him anymore.
And Vigo is like, yeah, right, except John Wick is
going to come and kill you first, and you can
count on that. Gives him a little kissy on the
forehead to seal it. So john Wick gets his guns
and prepares for a killing spree. Vigo sends like a

(24:56):
dozen guys to kill john at his house, but john
Wick murder them effortlessly. Then Vigo puts a bounty on
John Wick and he goes to this guy Marcus played
by Willem Dafoe, to be like, hey, will you kill
John Wick for me? And Willem Dafoe is like, yeah,

(25:16):
I'll do it even though we've learned the John Wick
and Willem Dafoe are friends. There ain't my honor among
thieves exaxactly. Meanwhile, John Wick checks into this hotel for assassins,
The Continental, run by Lance Reddick, which is so iconic.

(25:36):
I wish that's another I was like, I wanted more
John like Wizama. I wanted more lance red Although Lance Reddick,
he's gonna make a meal of whatever it is he's doing. Oh,
Lance Reddick and Ian McShane in The Continental or two
of my absolute favorite characters because they build so much
lower in such a short amount of time of like
this entire universe. It gives this illusion of like this

(25:59):
entire universe that's happening underneath your nose, with its own
set of like rules and practices, and like the Continental,
I'm gonna get on a soapbox for a second. The
Continental specifically, is this point in the movie, similar to
like Vigo, that establishes an old guard, like somebody a

(26:21):
generation that has like learned how to do something before
and had to establish a set of rules and guidelines
that you have to live in to keep things from
becoming total bedlam and total anarchy and it serves as
this really cool foil to like Miss Perkins and the
Continental is at Alfie Allen to Vigo in terms of
like you have this new, younger thing that has like

(26:44):
benefited from this older system that doesn't give a shit
about why the rules are in place, and suffer because
of that because they think the rules are there just
to be restrictive, and it's like, no, they're here because
you can't exist in this world without them. If you
don't respect your elders, you're cooked, babe, You're cooked. Your
membership to the Continental is revoked by thine own hand. Yeah. Yeah,

(27:07):
that's a that's an excellent way to put it. I
don't know. I mean, I've never seen a concept like
the Continental in a movie, and it's so like it's
such a simple concept where you're like, this is where
there are rules. If you break the rules, something bad
will happen to you. And it's so good. And the
scenes with the scene, particularly with Lance Reddick and Ian

(27:28):
McShane towards the end, where I feel like in their
scenes together they're not even ever looking at each other,
but so good, Like it's just yeah, so Lance Reddick
is the like concierge of the hotel for Assassins, and
Winston played by Ian McShane is the like owner slash manager.

(27:49):
He's reading at the bar. You're like, awesome, Yeah, he's cool.
There's also this like special Assassin currency, these like gold
coins that they're market are yes, And that's when you
realize that one of the things about this franchise is
that Assassins belong to this almost like secret society that

(28:12):
has all these rules, that has all these members. And
as the franchise goes, you learn that like so many
people are part of this secret society and you're just like, wow,
why wasn't I invited? Anyway? I know what if someone
drops one of the Mario coins and then you're just like,
what is this That looks fake and it's like, no,
that's Assassin money, that's Assassin coins. I loved. I'm sure

(28:37):
someone's done some sort of deep dive on like what
is the coin to USD when there's a recession, does
it hit the Assassin coins? So many questions, Well it
seems I, yeah, I can't figure out the high value
because they're like, oh, get rid of thirteen bodies, that's
going to be that's like thirteen thirteen coins, but also
staying several nights at the Continental only costs one coin,

(29:00):
so which is what it costs one body, So it's
like a half a body at night. Yeah, I guess
I wonder if it's because there's just like solid gold
and they just go by the weight of gold. Oh yeah,
that would I mean, that would fit in with the
old school rules that sort of seemed to run this
underground world. That Actually, Vanessa, I think you cracked it.

(29:25):
It's maybe not a per body system like I had
been trying to figure out. You never know, Okay, anyway,
So john Wick goes to Winston and finds out that
Joseph is going to be at this nightclub called the
Red Circle. So john Wick goes there. There's a huge

(29:47):
action sequence where he chases after Joseph through the club.
He's killing a bunch of Vigo's goons along the way,
but Joseph manages to escape, so john Wick just calls
it night and goes back to the hotel for assassins
and goes to bed. But then this lady assassin, Perkins

(30:08):
played by Adrian Paliki, comes in and tries to kill
john Wick on the grounds of the Continental right, which
is against the rules. The whole thing with the Continental
is that no business can be conducted on the grounds
of the hotel for assassins, meaning you cannot kill anyone there.

(30:29):
But she tries to kill him there, he stops her,
he gets the upper hand, and then he spares her
because she gives him information about a front that Vigo
is running out of a church. So John Wick goes
to this church and destroys all the money and all
the stuff in Vigo's vault. I recently saw Highlander for

(30:50):
the first time. Brag wow that church scene. I was like, oh,
like Highlander. Wow, It's like when mister Crabs shows up
to church and Highlander, you know, I ter Crabs Clancy Brown. Ah.
I was like, I've never seen Highlanders, So it took
me a second to figure out what was happening. And
then I was like, oh, no, Clancy Brown gotta gotta

(31:10):
get it. You know who else? You know who else
is in John Wick four? Mister Crabs is Oh, that's right,
Clancy Browns and mister Crabs is gonna are his way
into John Wicks. Who's gonna and you know who loves
gold coins? Mister Crabs it makes sense, Okay. So Vigo
is upset that John Wick torched all of his stuff

(31:33):
in the vault, so he captures john and he's like,
good over it. It was just a car and a dog,
and John is like, that dog was given to me
by my wife, and your son took that from me.
Then there's another fight where john Wick kills more of
Vigo's goons with the help of Willem Dafoe, who turns

(31:54):
out has no intention of killing John Wick because again
they're friends. It's kind of the most beautiful part of
the story. It is how Willem Dafoe is always like
gazing from a window helping his buddy out. Yes, it's nice.
Nice male friendship can be nice. Yeah, like when you
snipe someone from a window top your boys sacked. I

(32:16):
really did, Like, I mean, I thought that that was
kind of like my favorite relationship in the movie. Then
Vigo gives up his son Joseph's location, which is a
safe house in Brooklyn. So john Wick goes there, finds
Joseph and shoots him, and Vigo does not like that
this happened, so first he kills Willem Dafoe for betraying him,

(32:41):
and then there's a shootout between Vigo and his goons
and John Wick. John Wick kills most of them, so
now it's just John and Vigo in hand to hand combat.
They both get stabbed, Vigo dies, John Wick gets away.
Cut to the opening scene of the movie where he's
bleeding out and watching Dead Wife dot MP four on

(33:04):
his phone. But then he finds the strength to get
up because she's like, come on, John, let's go home
and the power of Dead Wife. Yeah, let's get ahead.
And then he goes into an animal hospital that's right there.
He staples his wound shut, and then there are some

(33:24):
dogs and kennels and he takes one. This racks He's like,
this dog is now the second I was hearing the
yips of the dog. I'm like, God, damn it, they
stuck the landing. Yeah, that's so good. So he takes
a dog I think it's a pit bull and he's like,
let's go home. The end yip yip. So that's John

(33:48):
Wick one. I'll do really quick recaps of John Wick
two and three just to kind of give you an
idea of how the franchise progresses. Does the second dog live? Yes?
The second dog Good Dogs keeps living Yes, yes, oh yeah,
thank you. Okay, Well I couldn't. I couldn't go through
that again. I couldn't let them do that to me again. Truly,
not they. I mean, I know it's important to the

(34:10):
movie that we lose Daisy. I just wasn't prepared to
los hers so quickly. Yeah, you just got Oh, she's
so cute and clear and that that little dog clearly
just loves Keanu Reeves as a person, because if you're
a puppy, of course you would love Keanu Reeves. He's
so lovable, he's got a good spirit. Okay, So wait,
what happens in the in the sequels? Okay? John Wick
two from twenty seventeen. So, after the events of the

(34:33):
first movie, John Wick wants to go back into retirement
and hang out with the dog he stole at the
end of the first movie. Nice, but another crime boss,
Santino D'Antonio, approaches John Wick with a marker basically a
blood oath kind of thing where Santino had done something
to help John Wick in the past, and now he's

(34:55):
returning to collect on the debt that John owes him,
and Santino one John to kill his sister Gianna D'Antonio
because Stantino wants her spot at the High Table, which
is this like high court of assassins and crime lords.
Does this have to do with the Continental also or

(35:17):
is this a separate thing. So the High Table is
like basically the government of the secrets of the assassin nation. Yeah, okay,
got it. And then the Continental is just like a
safe haven that operates within you know, this underworld. It's
the Deadwood Zoe to speak. Okay, got it, So now

(35:39):
you're speaking my language. So John Wick, knowing that he
can't retire and be at peace while this marker is
still active, he goes to Rome. He checks into the
Hotel for Assassins Italy edition, He makes a bunch of preparations,
and then he goes to Gianna to kill her. She

(36:00):
takes her own life before he can do that. Point
is she dies, and now Santino is like, well, I
have to avenge my sister's death, so now I have
to kill you John Wick. Even though it was Santino
who wanted John to kill his sister, I don't really
double cross understan Yeah, So Santino puts a price on

(36:22):
John Wick's head and then with the help of the
Bowery King played by Laurence Fishburne. But yeah, wow, you
thought you thought we were done with movies starring Keanu
Reeves and Laurence fishburn after the Matrix. Glad we weren't.
We're not done. Okay, he's back, Okay, okay. So john Wick,

(36:42):
with the Bowery King's help, goes after Santino. He kills
a bunch of his goons. He finally kills Santino, but
he does it at the hotel for Assassins. He does
it at the Continental, which is again, I can't do
the assassins code Ian makes Shane and said no, He said, no,
don't do that. So Winston has no choice but to

(37:05):
excommunicate john Wick from the Assassin's Secret Society, and now
everyone is going to try to kill john Wick and
he's going to have to deal with that in the
next movie. I did watch the first five minutes of
john Wick three, and I like that there is like
that group of that group of women that are all

(37:29):
wearing hot topic clothes and they just talk about who
is the most wanted in the world. At the beginning
of the movie where they're all wearing like those Bizarro outfits.
They're like John Wick fourteen million dollars, Ye, get his ass,
and then they're like, okay, let's change our manual board.
It's awesome. Well, the thing about the Bowery movie take

(37:51):
place in I think it's modern day, but there's a
lot because, like as the Bowery King says in I
think the third movie, computers and phones and all that
stuff you can hack. But you know what, you can't
hack carrier pigeons because the Bowery King's whole thing is
that he has this group of like carrier pigeons and
that's how he sends messages around. You wouldn't download a pigeon, Okay,

(38:20):
that's that's merch and I so you've got to get
on that y um. Okay. So the third movie picks
up immediately where chapter two leaves off. John Wick is
on the run because now every assassin in the world
is trying to kill him. Meanwhile, there's an adjudicator. Guess

(38:42):
who had to look up what adjudicate meant me? I
did too. I was like, I don't know what this is?
What is this word? What is it? Basically, someone who
casts judgment on someone else or someone who kind of
like evaluates things in a judge way, like a like
a judge, like a basically a judge judge for higher

(39:05):
Well they should just say that, yeah, but a judicator
has more syllables and therefore it's fancier. Hell yeah. Anyway,
So this adjudicator from the High Table played by Asia
Kate Dillon is going around to all the people who
helped John Wick kill Santino and then help John Wick escape.
So they're going to Winston and the Bowery King, and

(39:29):
the adjudicator is like, shame on you. John Wick meanwhile
goes to Casablanca to see Sophia played by Holly Berry.
He wants her to help him get to someone called
the Elder, because the Elder can reverse John Wick's excommunicato
status and give him another shot at life. So John

(39:52):
Wick goes to the desert to find the Elder, who
wants John to kill Winston. But then when John goes
to do this, Winston reminds him that he will be
a servant of the High Table and that his life
will suck, and John is like, wow, you're right, never mind,
I'm not going to kill you. And then because of that,

(40:14):
the hotel for assassins is declared deconsecrated, meaning business can
now be conducted there, meaning people can come to kill
John and Winston, which is what everybody does. But John
Wick is like, as if you could kill me, so
he kills everyone who shows up, and then there's this

(40:34):
final showdown between him and a guy named Zero, who
has been after him the whole movie. Play by Mark
de Cascos. I love him so much. He's very good.
There's this great scene where he's like, John, I'm a
huge fan of yours and we are going to try
to kill each other later, but for now, big fan.
I love the fanboy aspect of it, and I can't

(40:56):
think of a better dude to play it than Mark
de Cascos, who's like most dangerous looking man he knows
like he like. His martial arts repertoire is absolutely insane,
like if you look up his the amount of movies
that he's done and the different kinds of martial arts
that he's done for each movie, absolutely crazy. But he's
played like Mark Dicasco's The guy is a very like
I'm just really cool and high perpositive all the time,

(41:18):
so like seeing him play him but still be like
a dangerous Assassin was just such a funny character choice.
I love zero. Yeah, zero is great. That's so cool.
So after john Wick has killed everybody, the adjudicator is like, okay, fine, Winston,
you can have your hotel for Assassin's back, but what
are you going to do about john Wick? So Winston

(41:40):
shoots and kills john Wick. But just kidding, john Wick
is not dead. He and his dog go to the
Bowery King and they're like, all right, let's get ready
to kick some ass. And the next movie. Yes, so
that's the franchise as a whole. Let's take another quick

(42:04):
break and then we will come right back. Hey, Caitlin, Yeah,
are we back from break? Well? People keep asking if
we're back, and we haven't really had an answer, but
now yeah, I'm thinking we're back. Yeah. It's such a

(42:28):
good Keyanu delivery. I love how Keanu says words. Sometimes
it doesn't always make sense to me, but that's a
part of why I love it. It's great. There's an
early that I mean that there's a couple of monologues
in this movie that just fucking rip. But I think
my favorite line read from him in this particular movie.

(42:50):
I don't know why. And maybe it is nonsensical that
I feel this way, but I love when he first
gets Daisy how he's like, I'll get you some kibble later.
For some reason, that line of dialogue really I was like,
I don't know if I'm gonna like this movie. But
then when he said I'll get you some kibble later,

(43:10):
I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna make this movie
work because listen to him say that. I think it's
because he sounds like legitimately apologetic, the way you would
be to like a little guy do a dog like that.
He's very much like, I hope this holds you over
and it's fine in a way that implies that he
wants the dog to understand his apology. Oh can't you

(43:32):
some kile. The only way that that scene could have
been better for me is if we saw him do
what I always do before I feed an animal something,
which is google can I feed dog cereal? But John
Wick is an all knowing creature, so I assume that
he's had to learn this before. Exactly, All right, where

(43:52):
should we start, Vanessa? Does anything jump out to you
where you'd like to start? I mean, I definitely got
to have a little little soapbox about like Old Guard
versus New Guard. But it's one of my favorite like
through lines in this movie because like on the first watch,
you only see it with like specifically Alfie Allen's character,

(44:16):
but like there is that foil to it with Miss
Perkins as well in terms of like is there honor
among thieves? Should there be? Can there be? And that
kind of becomes like the question of the franchise. But
I think where I want to start is something that
Caitlin and I were talking about before we started recording,
which was the soundtrack is really unique for this when

(44:36):
it comes to like an action movie. I feel like
it's a lot more like muted, soft female voices, a
little bit less like bombastic than you remember like an
action movie with like click clickpoom playing over it. And
it's like it's a more thoughtful soundtrack. Yeah. The scene
that it really stuck out to me was the Red

(44:58):
Circle night Club bath house action set piece where Keanu
Reeves is just like going through and absolutely like demolishing
everyone in extremely violent ways. But it's like this angelic
woman singing this like it's almost any Yeah, it's like
a very calm, soft like you could play this when

(45:19):
you're like doing yoga or something. And the lighting also
in that scene is like very like purple, like the
bisexual lighting. It's like purples and pigs and blues, and
it's just like, it feels more like feminine in a
weird way than so much action movie esthetics. I guess
it's definitely sleeker, and it's the most in action movie

(45:44):
cares about being at least American. It's the most an
American action movie cares about being a pretty movie. It's
very pretty. Well, that's something I want to touch on,
just kind of in general, is action movie tropes and
trends and how the John Wick franchise participates in those

(46:04):
or doesn't, which we can kind of look at via
John Wicks allies and adversaries and ask are any of
them women? Well, let's take a look. So if women
are in action movies, there are some common tropes that
you'll see, and they're usually quite reductive. So I'm just

(46:26):
speaking generally here, but I have a list of tropes.
Bear with me. One trope is that women are not
allowed to engage in the action or the fighting. They
are damseled, their character isn't a trained fighter, they're left
behind for some reason, or they're ejected out of the

(46:47):
action for whatever reason. The implication of this often being
women are too delicate to fight. Combat is a man's game,
or another big hope, which is that women are the
prize to be won by the male hero. So a

(47:07):
woman in an action movie is often just there to
be the love interest of the action hero. He will
defeat the villain and save the day, and then the
woman is his prize. She is usually given very little
characterization and personality. She is just a hot lady by
western beauty standards and is basically a trophy. And that

(47:28):
is one of the more I think interesting subversions of
John Wick is that, like he is not a hypersexual character, right,
even though people grow hypersexual thinking about him. Everyone's because
really hot, Yeah, he's really hot in this movie. It's
like it's impossible for anyone to witness him and not

(47:52):
be like Ouga. But let's fucking go, Yes, the James
Cameron Ouga starts going off. But yeah, I did think
it was I mean, because I mean, and I was
like reading up like a bunch of you know, kind
of comparative studies of like how John Wick kind of
squares with other action heroes. And I know that you
and Vanessa no far more about this than I do.

(48:13):
But even like just thinking of like your classic action hero,
like your your James Bonds, You're like on Claude van
Dam's cruise, it's not even out of the question to
have a dead wife situation, which I think is one
of the trips that this movie doesn't really do very
much with. But like it's not even that that is unique,

(48:35):
it's more just that like it's almost I don't know,
it's so assumed that an action hero is horny, horny,
horny horny, and that's just not on his mind. He's
going through a lot right now, you guys. He's still grieving.
He's not looking to date right now exactly. He's oh
my god, the Riyah messages John Wick would be sending.

(48:58):
He'd be like, I'm just looking for something and casual, Okay,
I'm only here for friends all it's on bumble BF. Yeah.
I think John Wick is more likely to be on
bumble BFF than Riyah. Like I think he's looking for
like play dates for the dog more than he's like
looking for an actual date himself. Definitely, Oh yeah, yes,

(49:20):
he's showing up to Bumble BF dates being like, there's
one rule, don't fall in love with me, and it's impossible.
And if anyone knows about rules, it's everyone in the
Assassin society, the Mario coins. It's all a thing. But
miss Perkins doesn't give a shit because what does her
main personality trait? Money? It's the first thing out of

(49:45):
his mouth where he's like, I thought she didn't get
out of bed for anything less than like whatever the
amount that he said it was. Perkins has one thing
on her mind, and it's money, and it's making the
absolute most of it possible. He's a capitalist. I love
that there's no like hidden sexual tension between the two
of them is she wants to get paid, and she's
gonna get paid by gilling John Wick, right. So this, Yeah,

(50:07):
So that'll play into some of these other tropes I'm
gonna unpack here. One is if women are allowed to fight,
they are only allowed to fight other women, where women
on the good guy's side fight the women on the
bad guy's side, but men and women don't fight each other.
That's not something that takes place in this franchise. Another

(50:29):
trope will be that women are allowed to fight, but
the fight choreography will be heavily sexualized. We've talked about
the pussy slam a million times on the podcast, where
a woman wraps her legs around a guy's face or
the crotches. Right, there are the alternative of like saying
one Quippi line and getting one kick in during the fight, right,

(50:51):
everyone goes, whoa broking kick? So there's that trope. There's
the just women are used as sexy set dressing trope
where because the target audience this movie is not impervious too,
it's not but it's not egregious. I would say, no, no,
I don't think it's a particularly bad offender, but there
are I mean, there's this movie's definitely got some tropes

(51:13):
going on. Oh yes, for sure. Yeah. And then another
trope that we see in action movies is that women
will get tangled up in the action and then are
brutalized as a result. And often that brutalization is something
that the movie really like revels in and exploits, and
it treats it like it's part of this spectacle. I

(51:35):
would say that the John Wick franchise generally avoids most
of these tropes. Not entirely. But again, like as far
as action movie franchises go, John Wick is doing a
lot better in these regards because some of the assassins
are women and they do fight John or fight alongside him,

(51:57):
like we see Halle Berry do in the third movie.
She has too two dogs and she has two dogs. Yeah, okay, yes, okay,
they both live. Okay, I'm so I'm sold on three. Um.
In the john Wick franchise, women are not brutalized in
a way that feels exploitative. If a woman dies, it

(52:17):
just feels like an assassin dying. Yeah, it's it's an
even play playing ground for who gets marked. Right. Women
are not framed as the prize to be one because
John Wick never has a love of interest. As we say,
he only loves his dead wife. Um, which is something
will unpack further later. Yeah, it's like the guys. The

(52:39):
movie starts with a double fridging. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, um,
it's true justice for Daisy, Justice for Daisy. And the
women as set dressing. There is some of that, especially
in the first movie. There is some cinematography that lingers
on like a woman's butt, but this doesn't really happen
in which is the later installments I noticed. I mean,

(53:00):
it's like I'm not even like, you know, opposed to
like they're being hot ladies in a movie. I think
it's just more I don't know, I mean, and I
can only speak to the first one, right, I don't know. Yeah,
I'm really excited to hear what you both think about it,
because starting with the Double Fridging, I was just like, okay,
But I'm excited to talk about miss Perkins in particular

(53:23):
because Vanessa, I think you've already said so many like
really smart things about what she represents and the tropes
that she avoids, and then I feel like there's other
elements that are kind of unavoidable because she's the only
woman who is an assassin, and so I feel like
there's stuff that automatically ends up sort of projected onto her,
and like she dies in such a brutal way and

(53:45):
she's like so dishonorable, and I like that as a character.
And I also because she's the only woman, it just
I don't know, like I don't even think that the
movie is like trying to say anything broad but because
she's the only person who's not a sis man who
like in this profession, it feels that way at times.
Does that make any sense? Now, I get what you mean.

(54:05):
I enjoy that she just gets to be a straight
up villain, yeah, because I feel like any other movie
would have taken a character like her and made her
a very like sexualized villain, Like it's very easy to do,
especially because she's just like a very attractive actress, but
also given her like some kind of like mysterious connection

(54:26):
to John And I like that in this universe she
gets to just exist as somebody's that's completely looking out
for herself, which is literally what every assassin is there for.
And I do feel like her dispatching is brutal, but
I think it's justified because of the way, because of

(54:50):
the way specifically, like the rules of the Continental have
been teased to like something like there is something that
will happen to you if you break these rules. I
feel like the movie does a good enough job of
like building up and seating like there's a really really
good reason you don't break this rule. And her death
could have easily been very unceremonious, and the fact that

(55:12):
there was like some ceremony to it very much was like, Yeah,
Perkins was a formidable opponent. She's not going to be
felled easily by one guy. She's not going to be
felled easily like one guy. She stabbed him in through
the face of the pillow. You're gonna need a team
of people to take down Miss Perkins, right, And I
think that's something that you don't really get in action movies,

(55:33):
where a female character is someone that is so formidable
that you need to call in an entire ass crew
to take out. Right. I mean that I totally agree
with you. I think it's just more of my thing
is like I wish that there were like the two
women that we get to know in the first movie. Well,

(55:53):
the one woman we get to know in the first
movie is Miss Perkins. Yeah. And then again it's we've
had like this commversation and almost every genre we've ever
covered where it's like, well, if there were more women around,
it would feel less. Yeah, whatever, when you don't have
to be a monolith, when there's more than one, one
person doesn't have to be the goddamn monolith, and like
the end all be all for like what it means

(56:16):
for that marginalized community, even when we're not trying to
make a monolith when you only put one in. Congratulations
you made a monolith, right right, You're like, okay, you
can be evil villain or dead wife dot MP four.
And those are like the two flavors of women that
we meet in this movie. I think that's why I
like the third one so much, is you start to

(56:38):
see the different flavors of complicated women that exists in
this universe. And I feel like with every movie they
were like, all right, we're adding more. You win, you win,
We're adding more. It's true. And because so the first movie, yes,
basically just has one living female character. So even though

(57:01):
this franchise generally avoids a lot of these like reductive
tropes as far as action movie tropes go, it's still
a very male dominated franchise. And even just looking at
like John wicks allies, they are mostly men. And it's
not until the third movie that he has like multiple

(57:22):
allies who are women. Up until that point, it's just
like Willem Dafoe, John Logizamo, the Concierge, Winston the Doctor,
the King of the Bowery, and the bartender is a woman.
Oh she is in a scene that lasts for like
two minutes. Maybe she gets a name, right, he does

(57:44):
get a name, yes, and it does have like John Wick,
you are awesome. She does say something that's worth touching
on in this movie, which is that he is vulnerable,
and I want to unpack that further later. But sure,
but she is. I wouldn't say she's like a character though, No,

(58:05):
she's more like an NPC in a video game. Yeah exactly.
You're like, oh, okay, we need plot information. But does
she ever come back? No? Yeah, okay, oops by sea.
So yeah, make no mistake, this is a very male
dominated franchise and this is something just worth mentioning that.

(58:27):
And we've had this discussion here and there when talking
about different action movies. But there's always this question, at
least that I'm thinking of of, like what does a
feminist fight scene in an action movie look like? Does
such a thing exist? Or like what does gender parody
in a fight scene look like? Especially because there is

(58:50):
a long history in the real world of men inflicting
violence against women and men exerting physical power over women
because the patriarchy conditions men to be aggressive and to
value physical strength and to resolve conflict through violence. So like,
with that context, when you examine action movie violence and

(59:13):
women's participation in that or lack of participation in that,
Like how that float? Do you? It's yeah, I have
that fight scene. As soon as you said it, I
was like, I know exactly what it is. It's from
a movie called Writing Wrongs, which is directed by Unbo,
who's like one of like the end alb all for
like Kung fu movies. Now. The actress is Cynthia Rothrock.

(59:34):
Cynthia Rothrock is maybe one of the greatest female action
stars that has ever lived. She performed mostly in Hong
Kong because the US was not ready for her, and
the US did not make roles in action movies for
women like Cynthia Rothrock, so Hong Kong was one of
the few places that could like appreciate a woman of
her caliber and skill. She's in a scene with another

(59:59):
stage fighting actress named Karen Shepherd and if you want, oh,
actually I have two scenes for this if you want
like feminists, this is what women look like when they're
fighting women and there's nothing like sexualized about it, and
it very much treats them as formidable. You have Karen
Shepherd and Cythia Rothrock fighting each other in writing wrongs.
Please look it up. One of them uses their belt

(01:00:19):
like a goddamn lasso. It's fucking crazy. It is one
of the most It is one of the most incredible
on screen fights grace to screen. And then the other
one is a scene between three women and it's one
of the longest fight scenes in the movie in a
movie directed by Timo Tjanto called The Night Comes for
Us and Julia Estella is a former ballerina that learned

(01:00:39):
how to on screen fight for this movie and she
is outstanding and fighting to lesbian lover villains great and
it is this extended, gory, wild fight scene that is
so good. So those are if you're looking for fight
scenes between women that actually have like a lens that

(01:01:01):
isn't like sexualizing them and treats them as formidable. Look
up those two scenes. They are outstanding. Okay, Oh I'm
so well, we'll link that in the description slash. I'm
going to watch it the second we finished recording, because
that's very exciting to me. Not Rocks. I always go
to the Charlie Starren Tom Hardy the first sight fight
scene that they engage in in Mad Max Fury Road.

(01:01:23):
Oh yeah, it feels like I don't know, it feels
like gender parodies as far as like action fight scene
with a man fighting a woman. It's definitely tricky, yeah,
because it's like I mean, I almost feel like for
me again, this is like not my genre, but it
feels like a you know it when you see it
kind of situation, right, because it is like, especially when

(01:01:45):
it's like a sis man fighting any marginalized group like
that is not another sis man. Like I understand why.
It's like a historically loaded thing to be and I
think for a long time in movies they would just
instead choose to not depict it because you just didn't

(01:02:07):
at least in American movies, it just seemed like, well,
we don't really know how to handle this, so we're
just not going to do it and act like this
never and like sort of in an unintentional way, I
act like this never happens in the world, right, And
I like that there is franchises like john Wick and
others in the past, maybe like twenty years where it's
like you do see you you see movies not shying

(01:02:29):
away because it is like even if you're like, oh,
I don't want to depict you know, a man beating
the shit out of a woman. That happens a lot
in the real world. And like, but but then in
doing that, you are like sidelining huge groups of people
who deserve to be seen in action movies as well.
It just shouldn't be separated from fighting. Keanu reeves like,

(01:02:53):
everyone should get a chance to fight this man, and
I generally, I mean in this way it again, you
really do have miss Perkins. Yeah, but I like that
she gets a really solid fucking fight scene where you
see what she can do. And I don't know if,
like in my brain, I was like, well, you know
when you see it, and that felt like a fight

(01:03:14):
that felt like it was treated like a fight between
two formidable assassins in a way that wasn't super gendered. Yeah,
and that's why I wanted to watch the other two
films of the franchise to see if more women were
included or you know, like what if any evolution there
was there. And it feels a little slow. But by

(01:03:37):
the third movie there like you do have halle Berry
in a very extended fight scene where she is fighting
alongside John Wick. Because she's an ally, she holds her
own she survives. Yeah, she's not killed Ruby Rose, because
in the second movie, john Wick fights Ruby Rose's character
toward the end. Again, it's like a drawn out scene,

(01:03:58):
like there's it's because a lot of him fighting someone
is just him shooting them in the head and then
they're dead. So I appreciate that the scenes that are
some of the more extended, like choreographed fight scenes where
he's fighting the same person for a while, tend to
be with the one woman in the movie. It is

(01:04:19):
cool that, like even just based on hearing how subsequent
john Wick adaptations have gone in terms of including women,
and how it seems like based on the trailer for
the fourth movie, that that is going to be even
more so in the next installment. It seems like it's
a general upward trajectory and this is all happening in
the last ten years. Like that is pretty fucking cool.

(01:04:41):
It makes me very excited for the action genre because like, honestly,
in the last ten years, it feels like it's why
A Mortal Kombat pissed me off so much, because I
was like, you picked so many nonfighting actresses and we
actually have like the most on screen like female fighters
in the last ten years, and we've had a really
long time, like again not counting Hong Kong because again

(01:05:02):
so many, but like it's frustrating whenever I see, like,
I mean, I'm all for like an actress getting a role,
but whenever I see like an actress that can't fight
being selected for something now, and I'm like, do you
know how many women are trained to do this? Like
it was something that I would see happen a lot,
specifically with Zoe Bell in the late nineties and early

(01:05:23):
two thousands, where she was like always the stunt double
but never the on screen fighter, like she was Uma
Thurman's stunt double and kill Bill, and she actually like
finally got to be on screen as herself in the
Grindhouse double feature and then most recently in Malignant in
one of the prison scenes. And I'm also very much

(01:05:43):
for like bringing the women that have only exist as
like doubles in the background to the foreground and we're
finally seeing like more of that happening now, which is incredible.
Actually highly recommend a movie called Fury Start. It's Vietnamese
starring an actress named Veronica No It's if taken actually
was like good at fighting her her daughter gets taken
so she's like on a mission to get her daughter back,

(01:06:06):
and it's just her like crushing dudes and trying to
find her daughter on a motorcycle. It's oh, it's so good.
Hell yeah, that's amazing. I would love to see good
taken with women. Yeah, instead of like a million cuts
to get an old man over a fence and to
convince me that he can actually fight, it's Veronica know
who like can fight and is just demolishing nice. Oh,

(01:06:30):
I just wanted to go back to um to Miss
Perkins a little more because she's she's not in a
ton Oh so I just I wrote down very twenty
fourteen hairstyle. Oh yeah, where you're like it's just a
little too black hair on a clearly blond woman. But
that was twenty fourteen, that was happening. We were there,

(01:06:53):
We did it, but we did it greatly. But I
do like that, Yeah, she was put in again. It
feels kind of weird to be like, wow, this movie
could have really sexualized this character at so many points
and doesn't. Yay movie, But I do think it is
like relevant where we get a pretty solid fight scene
between her and John Wick and then she sort of

(01:07:15):
left in the custody of this guy Harry, which is
a classic Keanu Reeves moment where he's caught doing something
horrible and he's like, oh, hey, Harry, and like everyone
loves John Wicks so much, and he's like, oh, it's
oh hey, John Wick. What can I do to help?
Got a Mario coin for me? And John Wicks? Like,
I sure do. And again, I feel like in a

(01:07:38):
lesser movie, or even a movie that maybe came out
ten years before this, the scene between Harry and Miss
Perkins would have had a different dynamic in terms of
like sexualizing her or like making it seem like because
the way that again, I think it's like the dynamic
between Harry and Miss Perkins is more what you were
describing earlier than us about like Old Guard. Yeah, New

(01:08:02):
Guard is very much what's in place where Harry's like,
you know, you're fucking around with the rules of the Continental.
I can't be having that, and I want my Mario
coin and she's like, well, jokes on you, I just
want Mario coins. I think that that's the actual dialogue
in the scene that was verbad, the exact dial Yeah,
and then what happens is that she escapes because again,

(01:08:25):
she's skilled, she's a formidable opponent, she escapes from her handcuffs,
she does murder Harry. I like Harry. I like Harry
a lot. It made me sad. I was sad to
see him go. I wish that we I wish I
knew a little more about I mean, I know that
part of John Wicks thing is his mystique, but I'm like, woh,
what what did you What did you and Harry get
into back in the day. Yeah, just give me it,

(01:08:45):
Just give me a little something, give me a little
taste of what you guys did once. I feel like
we need a spin off series. But um would watch
it's coming. Oh yeah, it isn't Ballerina, right, it's called
The Continental, I think. So it's going to be specifically
about the Continental, and it's going to be a prequel.
And I can't hear that title without remembering that SNL

(01:09:07):
series of sketches with Christopher Walkin. Do you know what
I'm talking about? No? No, he would be the Christopher
Walkin played this like ladies man, or he would like
try to be a ladies man, but then he would
just like end up insulting the person he was trying
to seduce, but you never saw You didn't see her
ever because the camera was like her point of view,

(01:09:27):
and then he would just like see him like being
a buffoon and then like drinks being thrown in his
face and stuff. But it was called The Continental and
it had this like weird intonation where it was just
like the Continental. No. I was like, okay, well link
to that too, there's all they're okay. I was like,
have I lost it? Um? Ballerina is a movie that's

(01:09:50):
coming out in the John Wick universe. It's filming right now.
It takes place between John Wick three and John Wick four,
whoa ballerina assassin Rooney the murderers of her family. Oh
you john Wick three heads, we'll know what that means.
But I guess that the character was played by an
actor named Unity Phelan, so an actual ballet dancer. I

(01:10:11):
guess yeah, because John Wick's backstory is that he was
a ballerina. Hold on what yeah? Oh right, okay, So
something I left out of the John Wick three recapa.
See that's how you get me to care about John Wynn.
It was black swan, Are you joking? I was? I
think misunderstood what was happening, So he seeks refuge in
this theater, like this ballet theater where Angelica Houston. Yeah,

(01:10:34):
I should not have left her out, Sorry about it.
She's in. She's in Ballerina as well. Yeah, it's so,
but they did. The only difference is they recast the
ballerina as on a da armis, which I'm like, does
let the ballerina be the bo whatever. So he had
his training at this theater and she's his kind of
like mother figure almost. I don't know enough about his backstory,

(01:10:58):
but I thought that, like she was running a ballet
school and an assassin school. Like I just assumed that
he learned how to be an assassin at this ballet school.
I don't know what I was thinking. Yeah, he became
a ballet assassin like Vanessa with he a ballerina. Yeah
he danced. Oh he was a ballet assassin. This isn't

(01:11:19):
john Wick three. Yeah, I honestly am prepared to skip
john Wick two and go straight to three and then
it's fine. Three is my favorite of the franchise, honestly, Okay,
because I was like, halle Berry has two dogs and
Keanu Reeves is a ballerina like that's something that I
would watch no matter the tone, no matter the year,
no matter like that's a timeless concept. I'll give you

(01:11:41):
my favorite fun piece of trivia about the third movie.
All of the scenes with the dogs in Morocco took
a goddamn eternity because there were so many feral cats
in the area that the dogs were constantly like losing
their shit. So filming with the dogs took a really
long time because of just like there were people assigned
to just shoot away feral cats from the scene because

(01:12:04):
like the dogs just kept getting distracted by like cats
swarming them. That does sound like the sort of anecdote
that ends with like and then Keanu Reeves adopted all
was he is. So this has nothing to really do
with Bechtel cast discussion, but I thought that this was

(01:12:25):
like just I was reading about how this movie kind
of came to be. This movie was like written by
a writer named Derek Colestad who had been at it forever,
had not had like written a million screenplays no one
had really bitten, and then eventually sold this movie. But
apparently he has an aunt who is like a popular

(01:12:49):
historical fiction author named Lorie Wick. And that's why John Wick.
It's John Wick. It's a little nod to his more
successful aunt. I love that. So that's fun. Wow, a
good piece of trivia. Thank you so much. Should we
unpack the dead his wife? Oh, the dead wife of

(01:13:11):
it all? The dead wife of it all? I didn't.
I mean, it's I don't really know how much I
have to say about it outside. I'm surprised that they
went in so hard on it. I mean, like it
is kind of like, even in twenty fourteen, I feel
like that's such a known trope that people would like
even talk about then, like the term fridging existed by

(01:13:31):
that point. But I don't know. I mean, yeah, I was.
I guess in the movie's defense, I don't know if
you could classify that as fridging because she dies of
an illness and not a brutal like murder. I guess.
I guess I think of fridging for I have, like
I use a more loose version of it, where it's like,
if a woman needs to die for the plot to begin,

(01:13:54):
that's a fridge to me. I mean, I guess it's like,
she doesn't die in a violent way, but the movie
doesn't start until she's dead. Yeah right, I mean, and yes,
there is the classic action movie trope of a woman
existing in the world of this story, usually a wife, girlfriend,
or daughter. Sometimes she's alive, sometimes she's dead. But the

(01:14:14):
function of that character is to be motivation for the
male hero. We've talked about it at a million times, yeah,
and sometimes motivation for the villain. But in this case
it's it's John Wick's wife who died of an illness.
My wife, my dadda, my wife, my daughter. It's like
time what I think is more interesting about this? And

(01:14:36):
again there's still very much this trope at play, but
it makes it so that the John Wick character is
compared to other action movie heroes, who in most franchises
are sis head men who are extremely agro and this

(01:14:59):
whole like, oh, here's the ideal quote unquote version of
what a man should be, and this is how to
be cool, and you're supposed to suppress your emotions and
you're supposed to disrespect women and all this stuff. John
Wick doesn't. It's cements him as a wife guy, right right, yeah,
So he's which is like I don't know, he's just

(01:15:22):
he's more vulnerable than his like, you know, male hero
action counterparts. Is he dealing with his emotions in the
healthiest way. I would say no, because he's murdering a
lot of people. But John, Yeah, you're right, but like
his grief is and he's like actively trying to grieve,

(01:15:43):
and he he's so attached to the dog because that
was a way for him to experience grief and his
support animal, right exactly, they killed the support animal. I'm like,
they two, that's yeah. So I don't know that there's
just like something soft about old John. He's a ballerina

(01:16:06):
wife guy and the fact that he was a ballerina
the whole time twist of the century. Like I I
wonder if Helen knew that side of him, his ballet side.
Um also did she know? I mean, I just have
Maybe these are answered in subsequent installments, but like speaking
to your point, I do think that like that is
like a cool subversion on the action hero that this

(01:16:28):
movie does, is like that they don't shy away from
the grief. And it's like, well, if you're going to
kill off the wife for the action to begin, don't
just forget about her immediately or just you know, invoke
her name or her memory when it's like plot convenient
basically like it does you do feel her presence in

(01:16:48):
every decision that he makes, and like in his behavior
towards other people, Like he's I think almost like like
as actively grieving as I've ever seen like a character
where this trope is at play, Yeah, grieving. Even other
characters are like aware of that, right, everyone knows that
he lost his wife, and I think that, I mean,

(01:17:09):
that is interesting. And again it's like the element of
mystery is so important to this character because the more
mysteries about John Wick, the more John Wick movies you get,
it's all it's all connected and all that stuff for me.
But I was I was just like, oh, I wish
that like you got a little like even just to
like push the subversion of those decisions a little more,

(01:17:30):
just like some sort of indication of like did Helen
know that he was an assassin? Did Helen know that
he was a ballerina? Was their relationship built on a
bed of lies? What is one thing about her that
isn't that she was sick and then died, Yeah, and
loved John Wick so much? Like there, I feel like

(01:17:50):
you can retain the like mysterious elements of the character
and still like, give her some characterization, Yeah, give her something.
Knowing more about Helen doesn't make us have to know
more about John Wick exactly exactly what was their relationship,
like even if it was fucking boring, Like, yeah, us
knowing what Helen's job was, or like how they met,

(01:18:12):
or just or something about her, you know, God forbid
outside of that relationship would have I mean, I think
it just would. It would have helped every I mean,
like we always say in these conversations, it would have
helped everything because it if you know why he loved
her so much, that makes you feel for John wickmore.
It makes you understand why he like quit his entire

(01:18:34):
lifestyle for her, right right? Like what was what was
so fucking I mean, I believe that this woman who
doesn't exist was awesome, but like, what was so awesome
about her that you bailed on your whole life to
hang out with her? Good questions? But the movie doesn't
care enough about her? Do you find out more about
her in subsequent installments? No, no, come on tragically, which

(01:18:58):
I wish were. I wonder if we're going to get
more on the in four, But I guess I'm just
gonna have to wait until I have that two hours
in fifteen forty nine minutes to spare. That's a lot
of time. I also thought it was funny that they
like Bridgie A. Moynihand's like a very like a pretty
successful actor to put in the part of deadwife dot

(01:19:19):
MP four. I was kind of like, what, you think
that she's gonna be doing more? You would think, but
I see that she's credited in all a Hole. That's
so wait, that's actually so funny. Okay, she's credited in
john Wick, in john Wick chapter two, In john Wick
three and four, she's credited as Helen Wick parentheses photo.

(01:19:40):
So they probably tend to venmo her seven hundred dollars. Oh,
because you don't even get flashbacks. Probably it's right, you
don't even get dot she is now dot jpeg. She's
been somehow cast into an even smaller role dead wife
dot jpeg, an even smaller file. Yeah, brutally compressed justice
for come on, that sucks truly. Yeah. Something I want

(01:20:07):
to touch on is gun violence. Yes, in American action movies.
This is something that I don't think we've talked a
lot about on the show, but gun violence in American
action movies is very pervasive, and it's rare to have

(01:20:29):
an action movie from the US that does not have
a lot of gun violence in it. We are not
experts on this topic of like, oh, is it that
guns are so readily available in the US and that's
why they're so prevalent in our media and in action
movies in particular, just because it's like tragically a part

(01:20:51):
of American culture. Is it that the pervasiveness of gun
violence in American media? Does that contribute to actual gun
violence in our culture because people are famously influenced by
the media they consume. Is it both? Like what's the
causation slash correlation happening here? Again, we're not experts. It's

(01:21:14):
a much larger conversation that we can't really cover in
the span of a single little episode. But I just
I wanted to touch on it because again, we haven't
talked about it really before. And I noticed that as
a long time consumer of American action movies, excessive gun
violence in these movies has just been so normalized that

(01:21:37):
I have gotten to the point where I don't even
notice this alarming trend of how pervasive it is. I'm
just like, yeah, that's how action movies are well, I
guess finish. That's a question that I have for you
because you do watch so many international action movies, like
is this a uniquely American thing? How do you feel

(01:21:57):
about how violence is sort of portrayed across the genre.
I wouldn't say it's uniquely American because it is something
that I see across like the international borders of action.
I'd say, at least for John Wicks specifically, a lot
of its influence is specifically taken from John Wu because
the gun violence in John Wicks specifically isn't like typically

(01:22:21):
American action movies when it handles gun violence, it's just
very much like a very like bullet spray, a hold gun,
infinite bullet kind of thing. The John Wick taking from
John wu influence of gun violence is it treats it
almost like an extension of the arm if you if
you notice in John movies versus other American action movies,

(01:22:43):
it's treated almost like it's an extension of like a
punch in it of itself to where it's it's part
of the choreography, and usually American like gun violence doesn't
include guns as part of the choreography unless it was,
like John Wu with his very like hyperstylized version of it.
But it is something that I see that isn't so

(01:23:04):
much just like if you watch like The Raid or
The Raid too, it's very much pervasive through it, even
though there's like a lot of like hand to hand
combat in it. So I wouldn't say it's intrinsic to Americans,
but I will say, especially in the eighties and nineties,
we did it more okay, because that is I mean,
like I again, I because that's like it's not my

(01:23:27):
genre and I just come to expect it. But there
were I mean some I think maybe it is like
a uniquely American conversation because there is such an issue
with gun violence in America where I feel like there
is like this genre is especially right now and in
the last ten years, going to affect people a little differently.
I know that there's a huge, huge, huge debate on yeah,

(01:23:49):
the causation and all this stuff, and that I've certainly
read a lot saying like, you know, that is like
to say that the presence of guns in media will
turn you into like a murderous like you know, like
I feel like it's a way overblown, far more nuanced
conversation than I've generally seen had about it. But I

(01:24:13):
don't know. I mean, it's interesting like bringing your own
and hearing other people bringing their own sort of experiences
of gun violence to the table, and like how you're
able to consume these movies, like because if there's like
no wrong way to kind of come at it, but
there are, I mean, and I think for me is
particularly in the like club scene where people are just

(01:24:37):
you know, they're killing each other and it's all very targeted,
like they're not taking out random people like you do
see sometimes in action movies. But I think that was
as close to for this scene, just because of my
own personal experience of I don't know, like active shooter
threats in a crowded space. Like you're like, oh, that
can be a really like sudden and kind of triggering

(01:24:58):
thing to see. But yeah, you're right, for sure, it's
a little more willful. Yeah, Like it's a little more thoughtful.
It makes it makes an assassination feel more calculated, and
it doesn't have that like that sense of just like
bullet spray catching strays that you might see in like
a crank movie, right right, Yeah, I never know, I
don't know it's like never like my favorite thing to see.

(01:25:19):
But that's also just because it's like it's just that's
just a personal preference. I don't know, right, I don't
think it's ruining the world necessarily, Yeah, right, because for me,
Like again, I love action movies and I love to
see a good gun fight in an action movie. But
in the real world, like I think guns should be
banned outright. I think we should throw every gun into

(01:25:40):
a volcano, like no one should have access to a gun.
But in movies, I'm like, more fun, fun, I'm having
a fun time. So it's a paradox, but I just
wanted to bring it up. I want guns to be
like dragons. They only exist typical movie fantasy. Yeah, yes, exactly.

(01:26:03):
I want Andy Serkis to play a gun. I think
he gets really method about it. He'd be good at it.
I think he'd have a really fun press junket for
that one. But I want him to do the gallum
voice while he's doing it. Oh, the gun has a
whole lore that you don't see. It's like Babu Frick,
Like there's like the actor doing Babu Frick had a hole.

(01:26:26):
They're like, oh, there was a love thing that didn't
work out for Babu Frick, and you can see that
in the puppet work. And I'm like, all right, sure,
thanks Shirley. Hey, bab like bless her heart. I'm the
only person in the world who remembers the character of
Babu Frick from Star Wars five hundred. But I'm right
there with you. I love Babu Frick with all my heart. Hey,

(01:26:47):
hey to all my Babu Fri kids out there. I
also want to just mention the tendency in American action
movies to make the villains be people from a nationality
that is not American, Yeah, which this franchise definitely does.

(01:27:08):
And again I just speaking to the first one making
the making the Villain's Rush and felt like action movie
one oh one writing where you're just like, this movie
could have come out any time in the last fifty years.
I guess yeah, in a way that like is definitely
tropy writing oh deeply. So yeah, does anyone have anything

(01:27:29):
else to talk about? No? I think I I think
I completely emptied the cartridge. Wow, Oh I like that
you see John Wick change the cartridge too or like
run out of bullets sometimes, Yeah, it's not infinite forever bullets.
He's no, Like I like that this movie, Like, I
don't know, I guess that like of the action movies

(01:27:51):
that I've seen, this is like john Wick is not
my favorite, but I feel like it has a really
really cool balance of fantastical world elements versus occasional, like
striking real world elements, like he runs out of bullets.
Someone doesn't end the scene on a quip and they
just say, oh, like just like kind of grounding moments

(01:28:14):
that you aren't sort of trained to expect in such
a stylized action movie. Like I really really love those choices.
They're they're so fundam not having kibble at your house
because you got a dog yesterday. I'm also like, Helen,
you didn't send a bag of kibble? Yea, Like think
it through, babe. You're giving him errands. Yeah, you want

(01:28:34):
to give a grieving man arrand think about it. And
that's how this whole thing started. If he had not
gone out to go get kibble, he would have never
met up with You, would have never met Joseph, and
then his dog was still It's look, we can't Helen,
Helen tell it to the photo and John went before.
I can't believe she's parentheses photo. That's so dirty that

(01:28:59):
I guess she's over it because she's been downgraded to
a photo. I do want to shout out non binary
actor Asia Kate Dylan, who plays the adjudicator in John
Wick three. Nice. The character is never identified as non binary,
but the actor is. And I think it's just cool
for an action, a huge action franchise to cast a

(01:29:24):
non binary actor in that role and then just like
have that character just be their existence being normalized within
the world of the story. Yeah, yeah, which is something
that very like hetero rigid gender binary action movies generally
don't do. No, they're too scared of it. Yeah, so

(01:29:46):
I appreciate that, But yeah, I think that's all. My
cartridge is now also empty. My cartridge is empty as well.
I guess the last thing I have to say is
that I, you know, even though we're technically covering the
first movie in this episode, even in the space of
this conversation, I've been very heartened and feel good that

(01:30:07):
it seems like as this franchise becomes more and more successful,
it also becomes more and more inclusive, which is amazing.
And I hope that that like remains sort of a
precedent in this especially in this like kind of typically
agro sis male genre in general. Like, it's really fucking
cool and it continues to set the bar it does,

(01:30:31):
which is amazing. And so look, I'm going to see
John Wick four. It's also na writting a song for it,
do we know? I hope So I hope we get
like a Specter style song just for it, and then
she could win an Oscar I just the arena Sawayama
to Oscar pipeline. It just feels right to eat out.

(01:30:52):
I want to see her live so bad. It's also
this franchise, I would say, is also pretty inclusive from
a racial diversity point of view, where totally where it
doesn't cent her whiteness the way that a lot of
action movies and action franchises do, which is insane to
me because they pull from so many, like specifically Asian genres,

(01:31:16):
but are scared of casting Asian people. Right. Yeah, have
we have? We arrived at the Bechtel test portions of
No way, this damn movie passes. I'm sorry, I know
it doesn't. It does not pass, but future installments pass
maybe too, Maybe I think three does it does? Okay?

(01:31:37):
I think three passes. I would have to rewatch and
pay more attention. I was not paying attention. I want
to believe. I want to believe. Um, but one certainly
not um. I. You're hard pressed to get two women
in a room that aren't set dressing correct or or
terrified victims number three and four or exactly is being

(01:32:00):
forced to lead a vault when Keanu Ree's got that boy, Yeah,
I forgot about them. So yeah, there's a lot of
I mean, featured extras being like. But here's the thing
is that our nipple scale will really say something about
the movie, which is our scale of zero to five

(01:32:23):
nipples based on looking at the movie through an intersectional
feminist lens. I'm going to give this two and a
half nipples a split down the middle because even though
it subverts a lot of very reductive, harmful tropes when
it comes to women in action movies, it's just a

(01:32:45):
very male franchise. Still, there's no reason why more of
John Wicks allies and adversaries couldn't be womens non binary characters.
Since the franchise now has set a precedent for including
non binary actors, although again with the subsequent sequels it

(01:33:11):
is getting more inclusive when it comes to gender. But
this first movie especially is just one dead wife and
then one lady assassin and four seconds of a bartender
right right, and a pretty good you know, I like
not to undercut miss Perkins. I think that she's like
a well written character and that you get the same

(01:33:33):
amount of background for her as you would get for
any other assassin in the movie. And I agree with you,
like what Vanessa is saying earlier, of like she is
formidable enough to like warrant a ceremonial takeout, like it
takes whatever a circle full of respected assassins to take
her out. She is certainly one of them, but yeah,

(01:33:53):
she's just kind of the only the only one of them, right.
And then again, like when you compare John Wick and
his like vulnerability and his emotional forthcomingness that is present
in his character far more than your typical hyper masculine,
hyper agro male action movie hero, it's just an easier

(01:34:20):
franchise for me to get behind. Yeah, because of these
various subversions. So I'll give it two and a half,
maybe even a three. I'm biased because again, I love
the genre and I like movies enfranchises that do subvert
a lot of the harmful things that make this genre
not so easy to enjoy these days. But John Wick rules.

(01:34:44):
I love Keanu Reeves. I love all of the dogs
the dogs, so that's who I will award my three
nipples to the dogs and Keanu Reeves. I think I'm
also three nipple. I think the franchise overall is a
four nipple for me. The first movie is three nipples
and miss Perkins is doing most of the heavy lifting

(01:35:07):
taking it to the third nipple. I think it would
have been two two and a half if not for
miss Perkins, so she brings it to a three for me. Cool.
Oh yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna be a total kill
joy and go a two on this one, only because
I really like the I think Dead Wife dot MP
four really really got me, and it happens at the

(01:35:28):
beginning and end, and I was just like, ah, even
in twenty fourteen, this is not awesome. I do. I
do like miss Perkins. Um, I totally agree with what
both of you are saying. And also I'm a little
bit biased against this Sean ref for whatever reason, because
it scares me and it's loud and it's hard for
me to pay attention. So yeah, but I love I

(01:35:49):
love Beagles, and I do love them. I think mainly
my two nipples are going for the strength of Miss
Perkins character and how she is like such a you know,
she's just an equal, which is not asking for much
and this movie does do that. And the subversions of
the john Wick character of like he's not yeah, he's
not the my wife died, but I'm ready to find

(01:36:12):
love today like kind of you know, brain breaking action
hero we're used to. So uh yeah, I'm gonna go too,
and I'm giving them both the daisy God, damn it,
you're back. Her ghost should visit him in john Wick four. Oh,
I agree. She should have like a really beautiful, like

(01:36:33):
Smoker's voice. I imagined her. I have a very buttery,
raspy voice. Oh. I'm trying to think of who would
voice her. Miley Cyrus. Oh, I was gonna say, Andy serkis,
oh my andys Miley Cyrus, Andy serkis you know same Cadence.
We'll figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, that's
our that's our john Wick episode. There it is. Vanessa,

(01:36:55):
Thank you so much for coming back. Thank you for
having me. I had a wonderful time. The five timer
jacket is in the mail. Heil yes, and come back
for a sixth time whenever you want. I am more
than happy to Where can people check out your stuff?
Follow you online? Plug away, I'm a Ness Guerrero on

(01:37:16):
Twitter and S and S Guerrow on Instagram. And then
I produced a show called ten Minute Power Hour for
the game Grumps that comes out every other Monday on
the Grums channel on YouTube. And then every other Friday,
I host a show called Popcorn and Pixels in which
we talk about storytelling across video games and movies and
how a ludo narrative storytelling device might be different from

(01:37:37):
milleniear narrative storytelling device, but how they tell similar stories together.
And I hope that with my co host Emily Jacobson,
and definitely check it out if you like video games
and movies cool hell yeah? And you can follow us
on social media at Bechtel Cast. You can go to
our Patreon aka Matreon on patreon dot com slash backtel Cast.

(01:38:02):
You get two bonus episodes every month, plus access to
the back catalog of well over one hundred bonus episodes
and that's all for five dollars sorry, five Assassin coins
per month, Mario coins, five bodies, way the gold, who knows,
and you can go. If you want merch, go to
tepublic dot com, slash v backdel cast and with that,

(01:38:28):
Oh wait, I have a good I have a really
good dismount. Okay, fine, so you do your Sorry. I
did not mean to interrupt. No, it's fine. Mine would
have sucked anyway. I was gonna say, hey, Vanessa, Hey, Jamie,
be seeing you, be seeing you, John, be seeing you.

(01:38:48):
Five five