Priscilla Queen of the Desert

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
On the Bechdel Cast. The questions asked if movies have
women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph
and best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlin, I bought a bus. Do you
want to drive through the Australian out Back with me?

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (00:25):
But I don't have a driver's license, so you will
be doing all of the driving. I'll just be drinking
slowly in the back.

Speaker 5 (00:31):
If that's okay with.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
You, Well, I will also be drinking question Mark, because
Hugo Weaving's character is like, I'll have a Long Island
iced tea even though he was driving. It's desert rules.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
I feel like it's almost Vegas rules for DUIs.

Speaker 5 (00:48):
And I'm kidding. It seems like they could really have
fallen in a hole and died.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
It seems like it. But I think when we inevitably
tour in Australia someday, hopefully we should do it the
way they do it in the movie.

Speaker 5 (01:05):
We should do it bus style.

Speaker 4 (01:06):
Absolutely, I'm going in hard pro Abba.

Speaker 5 (01:10):
Well, same same, Bernadette.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
You would have hated Mama Mia hated it.

Speaker 5 (01:16):
Yes, I think it's funny that they're like duking it that.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
I don't know if Priscilla, Queen of the Desert is
still on Broadway, but it was on Broadway for some time,
and just having Priscilla and Mama Mia duking it out
on Broadway just feels appropriate, feels beautiful.

Speaker 5 (01:30):
Yeah, No, I love that. Anyways.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
Welcome to the podcast. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My
name's Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where
we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point. We're just
trying to get the conversation going. But Jamie, what's the
Bechdel Test?

Speaker 5 (01:52):
Wow? I can tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
It is a media metric creative by queer cartoonist Alison
Bechdel off and called the Bechdel Wallace Test due to
it was co created with Alison Bechdell's friend Liz Wallace.
Was originally made as a sort of one off joke
in Alison Bechdell's great comic series Dikes To Watch Out For.
It was originally written not just to talk about how

(02:16):
infrequently characters of marginalized genders speak to each other in movies,
but also in a queer context that has sort of
been stripped back in the mainstream interpretation of this test.

Speaker 5 (02:28):
Lots of versions of it.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
The one we use require us that two characters of
a marginalized gender with names speak to each other for
more than two lines of dialogue, and it cannot be
about a man.

Speaker 5 (02:39):
And yeah, that's the test. It sure is.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Honestly, I was just really enjoying right before we start
recording an article written about the search for the bus,
which of all the micro discussions to have about this movie.
I appreciate that there is a long essay in The
Guardian about finding the bus.

Speaker 5 (02:59):
It took thirty year, but they found the bus. I
love that.

Speaker 4 (03:01):
Well.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Priscilla is a character I think when they drive Priscilla
that passes the Bechdel test. I can't explain how or why,
but it does. Yeah, Priscilla's an important member of the cast.

Speaker 5 (03:15):
I'm so excited for this episode.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
It has been a long time request and we just
have sort of been waiting for the right guest, the
right moment, and it's happened and we're.

Speaker 5 (03:23):
Here, so let's get our guests in here.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Let's do it. He's a writer, YouTuber and podcaster.

Speaker 5 (03:29):
It's Matt Baum.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Hello, welcome, Hi, Hello, thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Oh my gosh, we're big fans. We cite you. I
feel like every other week.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Oh yay, I'm big fans of the show too, so
I'm delighted we could be. I don't know, we can
have this mutual admiration going on.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Do you want to come with us on our bus
tour around Australia.

Speaker 3 (03:49):
On our scary buzz Oh for sure, yes, yeah, you know,
I'm very much when I travel. I'm very into like
preparation and lists and making sure everybody has what they need.
Like I'm the one with the sunscreen, the electrolytes and
everything so and I don't drink, so like you could
be handling the stolely and I'll just be back there
making sure everybody's got gatorade and they've got cold compresses.

Speaker 5 (04:09):
Yeah, oh you gotta come, you gotta come.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
I would have like folding bikes in the back of
the bus for when the bus breaks down. We're like,
all right now we're just biking to Alice Springs.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
Right, perfect, we have like thermal suits to prevent the
heat exhaustion.

Speaker 5 (04:24):
Like it's all good.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yeah, exactly, love it.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
So Matt, tell us about your relationship with this movie.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Oh yeah, yeah, we've both seen your video about it
from Gosh a couple of years ago now, but yeah,
what's your history.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, you know, I did a video on YouTube, because
that's where I spent so much of my time. I
did a video on YouTube about Priscilla, but I didn't
really talk in that video about it's like meaning to me,
which is when I was a teenager in the nineties
in suburban Connecticut. This was like my most intense I
don't know, like locusts of queer energy. Because it was
on VH one late at night. They had segments between

(05:01):
at the commercial breaks that were hosted by RuPaul. So
RuPaul would come on and like she'd have some comment
about the movie. She'd mentioned something about like the costume
designer wearing a dress made of like mex gold cards,
and you know, she'd like throw out all this like
fun trivia stuff, and this was so much more gay
anything that I was getting anywhere else. So Priscilla really was,

(05:24):
you know, an entry point for me into queer culture.
Like I'd read a little bit about like the Stonewall
Riots and history and serious stuff, but seeing that like,
oh and this is fun too. Not just fun, but
there's others out there and you can have a party
and you can find like a neighborhood where you belong.
There was so much packed into this film.

Speaker 5 (05:41):
Absolutely, Jamie, what's your relationship?

Speaker 4 (05:44):
My relationship is? I saw it starting pretty young. My
aunt had a copy of it, I think on maybe
on VHS something like that, and it sort of was
like a fun comfort movie.

Speaker 5 (05:56):
This movie and The Bird Cage.

Speaker 4 (05:57):
Were both I think the Bird Cage did ultimately get
the heavier play, but I yeah, I watched this movie
once every couple of years for.

Speaker 5 (06:06):
A long time, and it's always interesting to revisit.

Speaker 4 (06:10):
I feel like every time I revisit it, you know,
you get something new out of it. It's certainly a
product of it's time and with the old discuss.

Speaker 5 (06:17):
But I really love it.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
I also just love a road movie, like it's just
I don't know, it's This movie is a blast, and
I think the performances are wonderful. And to prepare for
this because I had just watched Priscilla a couple of
months ago and found a documentary that was produced about
the history of it that is narrated by Terrence Stamp.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Oh, yes, I just watched that on like, yeah one
point seven five Speed on YouTube.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
I've done that, Yeah, because I've also talked about this
movie on a different podcast, So I like had just
watched it and rewatched it, and it's a really sweet
documentary and I think it's very funny that, you know,
it's like Terrence Stamp is kind of like the number
one fan Priscilla.

Speaker 5 (06:59):
He's like, I'm going to narrate it. But yeah, I
mean learning about the production of this movie sort of
made me appreciate.

Speaker 4 (07:05):
It in ways I didn't know because not only I mean,
was there certainly major spots I wasn't aware of with
queer culture when I first watched this movie as a kid,
but also there's a lot about Australian culture that I
did not know or understand, and I think if you're
not Australian and you would just completely miss it. So
I learned a lot, and so yeah, I'm really excited

(07:26):
to talk about it on this show.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
There's so much to talk about. Caitlyn what's your history
with Priscilla.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
I had only seen this once before when I was
watching the hundreds of movies when I first started film
school in the mid two thousands, so I had heard
about it and I was like, oh, I know that
this is like an iconic entry into queer cinema, and

(07:54):
I really liked it. I thought it was such a
fun romp of the other queer movies I had seen.
It was tonally lighter than so many of them. That
and the bird Cage were too that I saw around
the same time as well, and I was like, Oh,
it's it's so refreshing to see these movies that like
celebrate queer joy. But I didn't watch it again for

(08:17):
some reason, and I didn't remember a lot about it
going into this rewatch, except for I remembered the abba
piece of poo in the vial.

Speaker 5 (08:28):
I mean, unforgettable, unforgettable.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
I remembered some of the iconic imagery as far as
like the I think it's the Felicia character on the
roof of the bus with like the flowing thing behind,
I mean.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
The costumes are unbelievable, and the one that all sticks
me is the flip flop dress, the flip flap dress
is my favor.

Speaker 5 (08:49):
Flip flop dress is so good.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
I remembered the ping pong ball scene.

Speaker 5 (08:55):
We'll get to that. Oh my god, the ping pong
ball scene. This was the first viewing where I really
truly recognized the weird sound effect they added in post.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
You know, when you're shooting a ping pong ball and
if you're pussy and it goes booo like, it's like
a little fish blowing up bubble disgusting, disgusting.

Speaker 5 (09:15):
We'll talk about it.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
But anyways, if no one has ever recognized the weird
like ping pong ball ejection dot MP three they put
in there, it's there multiple times, and you're.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Like, oh, why, it's wild. Anyway, So I remembered a
few of those iconic moments, but I forgot a lot
else about it. So it was really fun to revisit
and be reminded of some of the things that are
really fun and great about this movie and some of
the things that don't hold up so well and sert

(09:47):
ping pong ball dot MP three.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah. Should we get into the recap and we'll go
from there.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
Let's do it.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Okay, So we are in Sydney, Australia, I ever heard
of heard of it?

Speaker 4 (10:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Wow, wow, huh it Actually it looks really appealing, you know,
And I didn't get the first time I watched the
movie when I was a teenager, I was like, why
are they so down on this place? There's a game
more and they're like it. There's people who are like
waving goodbye when they leave, like it seems nice, and
I just I didn't get like why they were why
they had Sydney fatigue.

Speaker 5 (10:31):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
I think that's one of the things that you need
like Australian context to really appreciate.

Speaker 5 (10:35):
It kind of reminded me.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
I mean, just like my relationship with like I guess
I've only really lived in like two big cities, but
like both times, you know, you have days where you're
like this place is a shithole, this place is cooked, and.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
Then someone visits and they're like, wow, this is the
most beautiful.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
You know, You're like, oh, yeah, I guess, I guess
I sort of forget that there is beautiful things around
me because I'm so annoyed with everyone all the time.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
I could relate with that exactly. Yeah, that grass is
greener of the grass is Always Greener. Yeah, Yeah, what's
that movie that. It's about like a bunch of people
who get trapped in an explosion in the Lincoln Tunnel
or something like that. It's from like the early nineties.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
Going on Daylight. Sylvester salone, right, that sounds right.

Speaker 3 (11:17):
It starts like all these people like it just random
people entering the Link tunnel in or which whichever, I
don't know, whichever one it was. And one of them
is this woman who's moving out of New York and
she like her whole like little car, it's like a gremlin,
is like loaded up with every possession and she's like
screamingly furious at New York and she's driving to the town.
She's like, I've had it up to hair with all
your shit, New York. Like it's her introduction to that character.

(11:40):
That's kind of how these these drag queens feel to me.
At the start of the movie.

Speaker 5 (11:44):
They're done, they're done.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Oh gosh. Anyway, so we're in We're in Sydney, and
we open on a drag show where drag queens Mitzi
played by Hugo Weaving and Felicia played by Guy Peers
are performing. But the crowd is lackluster, if not hostile
toward them.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
They're throwing cans.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, and they're like, we're sick of this shit. And
then Mitzi, who also goes by the name Tick, receives
a call from a woman who we don't yet know
who this is, who pitches something to Mitzi off screen.
Mitzi seems down for it, then calls her friend, Bernadette

(12:29):
played by Terence Stamp, whose husband had just died.

Speaker 5 (12:33):
Her husband her what's her husband's name? Her husband has
kind of a weird name.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
It's like tuba, trombone, trombone, trumpet, trump some brass instrument,
and you're like, is this.

Speaker 5 (12:45):
An Australia thing? Can you just be named Trumpet?

Speaker 2 (12:47):
So we learned that Bernadette's her husband Trumpet, has just
passed away. So Mitzi and Felicia attend the funeral. Also,
it's worth noting here that Bernadette is a trans woman.
Mitzi and Felicia are, as far as we know, CIS
men who are drag performers. I will probably just refer

(13:08):
to them as Mitzi and Felicia, although they are also
known as Tick and Adam anyway. So they attend the
funeral where Mitzi invites Bernadette to come along on an
upcoming tour I guess, a road trip to Alice Springs,

(13:28):
which is in the outback, for a string of shows
that will begin in a few weeks. And Mitzi also
invites Felicia to Bernadette's dismay, because she thinks Felicia is
a bit.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
Much not entirely wrong.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
She's correct, So Felicia provides the transportation for this trip.
Because Felicia buys a bus with her like homophobic mombs
money yeah, and names it Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.
They pack up, they load into Priscilla the bus, and

(14:08):
they head out on the road. They're driving, they're singing,
they're chatting. Bernadette and Felicia are not getting along. This
is the start of Felicia dead naming Bernadette, a trend
which happens throughout the movie. We'll talk about that. Then
Mitzi reveals the reason she got this gig in Alice Springs,

(14:31):
which is that her wife, her wife, her his wife
offered up the gig at this hotel that I think
hotel Casino.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Ye things, yeah, she runs this like I think Casino
is probably a resort it's yeah, yeah, I like that.
I get the impression that, like Alice Springs, I don't
know that this is exactly right, but it's sort of
like Bronson, Missouri, Like it's a lower tier, middle of
the country sort of destination. That's right, not too expensive it,

(15:00):
but it's also like there's more culture than you'll find
if you go like twenty miles outside of it, so
it's sort of like a little a little oasis.

Speaker 5 (15:07):
Yeah, yeah, that feels right.

Speaker 4 (15:08):
I mean, and Australian listeners feel free to correct us,
but that did feel right. I don't know, especially based
on the reaction towards the end spoiler alert, when Bernadette
decides to stay there, moving from Sydney and everyone's like, what.

Speaker 5 (15:21):
The fuck are you talking?

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, yeah, So Mitsi reveals this about having a wife,
and the other two are shocked. They didn't know about
this wife, who Mitsi is estranged from. Felicia keeps ragging
on Mitzi about it. Then they stop in a small town.

(15:43):
Mitzi and Felicia are both in just wild drag costumes.
This is where we see the flip flop dress. Felicia
is in this like blue plastic wig and they go
out to a bar, and many of the townspeople are
very you know, queer phobic toward them, but then the

(16:04):
group mostly warms up to the trio, although the following
morning they wake up to see that Priscilla the bus
has been vandalized with a homophobic slur painted across the
side of the bus. Felicia also dead names Bernadette again,
and she understandably lashes out at Felicia. They set off again,

(16:27):
taking a shortcut on a dirt road, but oh no,
oh no, Priscilla the bus breaks down, so Bernadette sets
off on foot into the desert to try to find
some help. Meanwhile, Felicia paints over the vandalism on the bus,
turning Priscilla into a like pinkish color.

Speaker 5 (16:51):
That is not what lavender is, that's.

Speaker 3 (16:54):
True, Actually, lavender I think would be a little more blue.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
The yeah, but whatever, but at this point I don't
want to encourage anymore infighting on this bus, Like, fine.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Fine, what you want. And then Bernadette eventually comes back
with help, although the man sees Mitzi in drag and
immediately speeds off, so they're stranded still and they use
the time to start rehearsing for the upcoming shows. Then
a man named Alan played by Alan Dargan. Dargan finds

(17:32):
the trio and brings them to a party that he
and his friends and family are having in the desert. Mitzy, Bernadette,
and Felicia put on a little show for the group.
Alan gets into drag and joins them. The next day,
Alan helps them get a tow truck and then disappears
from the movie.

Speaker 5 (17:52):
I wish Alan went with that. I know, it felt
like the movie setting it up for Alan to come
with and it.

Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, I know, I really want the Alan story, Like
they they've opened his eyes and he's open theirs and
now I don't know, they part ways and the camera
goes with our heroes. But I just I want another
movie where it goes with him.

Speaker 5 (18:11):
Yeah, it's been off. He was a natural.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Mm.

Speaker 5 (18:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
So then they get a toe from a guy named
Bob played by Bill Hunter to this small town. The
trio has dinner with Bob and his wife Cynthia played
by Julia Cortez who Bob is very cruel too, and
we will talk about that as well. But Bob suggests

(18:39):
the trio perform their show at a local pub and
They're like, I don't know if this town is gonna
go for the type of show that we do, and
Bob is like, no, it'll be fine. I for one
love drag shows. He was a fan of the Lay
Girls from back in the day when he used to

(18:59):
live Sydney, and he's like, no, it'll be great. So
the trio does their show and sure enough, the audience
hates it, but they're interrupted when Cynthia comes into the
bar proceeds to get on stage, put ping pong balls
into her vagina and then pop them back out again,
and everyone is.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
Like woohoo, Encore. I mean, an impressive feat. But we'll circle.

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Back to it. Yes, I gotta say this scene was
absolutely befuddling to me when I saw it as a teenager.
Because VH one trimmed it. There was a little bit
of a made for cable edit here that made the
scene absolutely more mystifying. It was mortifying and mystifying, and
I could tell that something like embarrassing had happened, but

(19:51):
enough of the scene had been chopped out that it
was totally totally befuddling. So I gotta say, like, once
I finally saw that the proper movie like I actually
got it on VHS. Actually the movie I was like,
oh okay, But otherwise it just seems like she shows up,
everybody cheers, and then everyone gets met, and I'm like,
why is Felicia cackling and why are they so stunned?

Speaker 5 (20:14):
Like what is happening?

Speaker 3 (20:15):
She's just dancing?

Speaker 4 (20:16):
Yeah, exactly, that's I mean, having pulled things out of
my vagina on stage many times before the raw launch
that Cynthia is able to do.

Speaker 5 (20:26):
I you know, the keegel drop, the hints drop that,
I know the keegel I like, I was fascined.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
I mean, obviously you could tell from the cinematography did
not happen because of ping pong ejection dot MP three,
But it was like, is it possible?

Speaker 3 (20:42):
Could it be done?

Speaker 2 (20:44):
What's the movie where there's a character on stage you
see them like spread eagle, and it seems like ping
pong balls are shooting out of this character's vagina, But
then it cuts to the like reverse angle, and it
you just see that character like hitting.

Speaker 5 (21:02):
A ping pong ball.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Movies with hitting the ping pong balls with a ping
pong paddle, and so the joke is like, oh, you
think the balls are coming out of the vagina, but
they're just hitting them with a paddle.

Speaker 5 (21:14):
What movie is this? Does anyone know? No idea?

Speaker 3 (21:18):
I would like to watch it? Yeah? Was this more
of a thing? Was this a reference people to be like, oh, yeah,
that thing?

Speaker 4 (21:24):
I hope that this is the kind of thing where
our listeners are like, you didn't know about that.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
I feel like I've seen this referred to in other
And I don't know if Priscilla quin in the Desert
is like the genesis of this, like patient zero.

Speaker 5 (21:39):
Yeah, but like I definitely have seen it referred to
in other things.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Wow. I will say I went to a show this
many years ago at Acbar in La It was an
AS themed art show and there was a performance by
somebody who comes out. There's a stage, we're all sitting
in the audience. There's I don't know, like twenty five
people in the audience, and so this person comes out
and lays down a drop cloth and we're like, what's

(22:05):
coming next? And then they come out and very very
deliberately put down these little paint squeezy paint bottles with
like it looks kind of like in a kitchen when
you have like the squeeze bottles with like the plastic lid,
you know, the nozzle on top, very deliberately lays them
down their full of pain around the edge of the stage.
We're like, what is happening here? They remove their clothes
and then they very deliberately insert the paint into themselves

(22:29):
and then silently, by the way, there's no sound happening,
they move from corner to corner to corner of the
drop cloth and create a work of art by ejecting
the paint onto the drop cloth. And amazing, I will
tell you the you could have heard a pin drop
from the audience. We were transfixed by this artwork. And

(22:51):
then as I recall, it was hanging on the wall
by the end of the night.

Speaker 5 (22:53):
So anyway, that is amazing.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
God. Yeah, I think it was. The event, as I recall,
was called the whole story, and I was just like
one butt themed piece of art after another.

Speaker 5 (23:09):
Amazing.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (23:10):
I love a pun I love a whole story.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
Well, listeners, I mean, if there is a time honor
tradition of ping pong ball whole ejection.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Do let us know.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
No need to send links, but like you know, sounds
to me I want to, Yeah, send Caitlin the whole links.
I uh, yeah, maybe you've just lived too sheltered a life.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
Well, time to break free, Jamie. I wonder what movie
you're thinking. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
It's a movie I've seen a couple of times, but
clearly not enough to even remember what the movie is.
It's some comedy, I'm guessing because like, and that's a
pretty funny joke, like, oh you think and then the reveal, Oh,
they're just hitting it with a paddle.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Anyway, it's like.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
A zucker, like a police squad type or like I
feel like Leslie Nielsen would be adjacent to that joke
in some way.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
Yeah, a Hangover movie.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Sorry, I'm looking m I don't think so that those
movies aren't smart enough for a joke like that.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
Bradley Cooper talks about catching Vagina launched ping punk ball.

Speaker 5 (24:10):
What a headline, And that's not even from a movie,
it's just from his journey.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
We'll figure it out maybe by the end of the episode.
But anyway, so we see this scene where Cynthia is
launching ping pong balls out of her pussy and everyone
loves it except for Bob, who is humiliated. And this
seems to dissolve his marriage with Cynthia because she packs
up her car and leaves, and Bob joins Bernadette, Mitzi,

(24:39):
and Felicia on their road trip.

Speaker 5 (24:42):
Then this is the part of the movie where I
start screaming, Bernadette, you can do better.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Oh my gosh. They are obsessed with Bob and it's like,
did you not see him being horribly abusive to his wife?

Speaker 5 (24:55):
Like what the fuck?

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Anyway, so they stop in another small town. Mitzi and
Bernadette enjoy a quiet dinner where they discuss Mitzi wanting
to have children, they discuss Bernadette's transition. Meanwhile, Felicia gets
all dulled up in drag, and I don't know exactly
how to phrase this, but it's not the like campy,

(25:18):
exaggerated show drag that we've seen her in up until
this point. It's more like attempting to pass as a
CIS woman.

Speaker 5 (25:27):
And Felicia goes to this.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Gathering of men drinking beer in a parking lot. Bob
is there too, and Felicia flirts with one of the
men and he's into it at first, but then sees
Felicia's arm hair. I think that's like the giveaway that
this is not a CIS woman, so he assaults and

(25:50):
starts chasing Felicia, and.

Speaker 5 (25:52):
Only then does Bob reveal that he knows Felicia right.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Because Bob intervenes. Mitzi and Bernadette see this happening, and
they step in and stop this, you know, mob of homophobes,
and they get Felicia to safety. We see Bernadette first
be rating, then consoling Felicia, and then the group sets
off again toward their destination. Bob at some point tells

(26:21):
the others that Cynthia basically.

Speaker 5 (26:24):
Tricked him into marrying her or something happened like that.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
Again, we'll discuss that further later. Then Bernadette and Bob
are kind of vibing, and then they finally arrive at
their destination, Alice Springs ever heard of it, and Mitzi
reunites with her his wife Marian played by Sarah Chadwick,

(26:50):
and then we get a reveal that they have a
child together, a little boy named benj which Mitzi knows about,
but Bernadette and Felicia obviously don't, so they're shocked.

Speaker 5 (27:01):
Once again. Mitzy loves to have a little secret. Yes, yes,
and so.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
They prep for and put on the first show their
lip sinking to finally it's happened to me, my veaz
and I just cannot hide it. And there are lots
of elaborate costumes and costume changes which just through the

(27:29):
magic of film editing, just happened. At the end of
the show, Mitzy sees that Benje was watching the whole time,
and Mitzy faints embarrassed to know that Benge knows about
Mitzy being a drag performer, but Benje is fine with it.

(27:49):
He seems proud of his father, doesn't care that he's gay.
And then Marion and Bene join the group on the
road in Priscilla the Bus so the MITSI can spend
more time with and get to know Bene. Though Mitzi
is putting on more of the like tick persona, like

(28:10):
pretending to be straight, dressing more masculine, I guess, like
wanting to be a quote unquote good example for Bene.
But he doesn't give a fuck, and he's like, I
want to see the abba show that you do. Do
you have a boyfriend?

Speaker 5 (28:24):
What's going on?

Speaker 4 (28:25):
It reminded me of like this is incredibly different genre,
but how in every Mary Kate Nashley movie, the kids
are obsessed with like do you have a boyfriend?

Speaker 5 (28:33):
When are you getting married?

Speaker 4 (28:35):
Like if Bench is a character like that where anytime
he's talking to his dad, he's like, do you have
a boyfriend?

Speaker 3 (28:43):
Tell me?

Speaker 5 (28:44):
It's like, wow, I can't imagine asking my parents.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
So, I mean, I understand the narrative function, but it
just always makes me laugh when a child does that
in a movie, because I feel most children really do
not want to know what theirs are up to.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Correct I Also I love that Benji is like unfazed
by Felicia, like that character, the guy Piers character, like
the whole movie. His deal has been I like to
get a rise out of people. I like to piss
people off, shock people, and this kid like actually is
surprising to him. And they had this very brief scene
together and by the end of it, I think Benji

(29:19):
says something like do you want to play Lego? Or
something like that, and like they're actually sort of like
well matched because Felicia is so childish and they actually
are a good pair, the two of them.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, because Felicia's like, you know your dad's gay, right,
and Benj's like, I don't give a fuck, Let's go
play Lego.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Yeah, it's just very sweet, and.

Speaker 4 (29:40):
I like that it seems like, I mean, I know
that Felicia is going back to city to be a
performer again, but it also seems like there's gonna be
like a very.

Speaker 5 (29:48):
Found family kind of nature.

Speaker 4 (29:50):
And because we'll talk about it, but that's like so
much of what makes this movie so special, because we
know at the very beginning of the movie that Felicia
Adams family are wealthy homophobes and that there isn't much
support to be had there.

Speaker 5 (30:04):
So by the end, you know, they are.

Speaker 4 (30:07):
All co parenting the most nineteen nineties looking child I've
ever seen in my life.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
That's true. That's true. That like just a little bit later.
If this movie had been made later or earlier, I
can't do math, it would be Ryan Philippe Like that
is kind of yea. The vibe that this kid has
Mark Holmes, I think is the actor's name.

Speaker 5 (30:28):
The hair, the clothes, like the.

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Stripe shirt, the chunky sneakers, like I think he's got
cargo shorts. Like it's very yeah, Like, and you know what,
if it's been made a few years later, you would
have had like the Zelda trifle. It has been the
green Zelda Triforce T shirt, the cargo shorts, black sneakers.
That's that's the kid. We would have had their.

Speaker 5 (30:48):
Child uniform of the day.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah. Then we see Mitzi, Bernadette and Felicia in Drag
climbing a mountain a reference to I think Fleicia saying like,
I want to climb this mountain kings something as a
queen and then Bernadette was like, oh, a cock and
a frock on a rock. So I think that they're
fulfilling that dream.

Speaker 5 (31:13):
The prophecy has been realized.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Yes, there's something so interestingly patriotic about this movie, like
Australian patriotic, where so many components of it are celebrating
Australian history and culture and not always I think nailing
it exactly. They you know the I think the treatment
of Aboriginal characters is a little dismissive and stuff like that.
But you know that final Drag number where there's so

(31:37):
many like iconic Australian elements. Yeah, I will survive with
a DIGGERI do. Is so lovely. It's my favorite number
in the in the film is like hearing that sort
of mashup and like then that like that. I think
it's King's Canyon at the end. That was actually going
to be Ularu. They want to do it on I
forget what the there's an English language name for it,

(31:59):
the something rock anyway, but they weren't able to shoot
there because of like cultural concerns around the filming there,
and so they went to this other location. But yeah,
there's just there's so much. There's so much Australia, and like,
isn't it great to be Australian about this film?

Speaker 4 (32:14):
Yeah, which is why I didn't realize, I mean until
I was like looking into the background and watch this
documentary how widely embraced it was, to the point where
it was like, uh, there were references to Priscilla the
bus in the Olympics when they came to Austria. You're like, oh,
it's like it's loved like that. Like that's fascinating. Anyway, Sorry,

(32:34):
I know, I know the recap's almost over, but it
is interesting. Yeah, that like sort of underlying patriotism that on.
You know, the first ten years I was watching this movie,
I just didn't know enough about Australia to even recognize.

Speaker 5 (32:46):
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Okay, so the movie basically ends where they're back at
the hotel. Bernadette reveals that she has decided to stay
in Alice Springs for a while with Bob, and again
we're like, you can do better, Bernadette.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
She's vulnerable, she'll dump him, I hope. So Trombone just
died or whatever.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
But yeah, but they say goodbye, and then Mitsy and
Felicia go back to Sydney. They do the Abbess show,
lip syncing to Mama Mia.

Speaker 5 (33:19):
Here we go again, the second movie this year that
ends with that song.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
So there you go, yes, indeed, and then benj is
in the audience watching gleefully the end. So let's take
a quick break and we'll come back to discuss.

Speaker 5 (33:46):
And we're back. Where do we want to start the
discussion today? I mean, I guess maybe a little bit
of background, mm hmm, it would be appropriate.

Speaker 4 (33:57):
So this movie was directed by Stephan Elliott, who was
not out at the time this.

Speaker 5 (34:04):
Movie came out, but is a gay director.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
And I didn't know, yeah until watching this documentary how
rooted this movie was in the drag scene that he
was very much a like, huge fan of in Sydney
in the eighties. We'll link to this documentary in the
description because it is really a fun celebration of this movie,
and that the character of Tick or Mitzi was based

(34:32):
on this famous Australian drag performer, Cindy Pastel. And so
I mean, there's just like all of these fascinating just
how this came to be, where you know, he was
working in film by day and going to drag clubs
by night and then eventually married it in this beautiful way.
And he was also only thirty when he directed this,
which always makes me mad.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, And I read that after this script at least
the first d came together pretty quickly, after Stefan had
the idea and wrote the screenplay and was trying to
get this movie off the ground. He and some producers
were trying to get it financed, pitching it around, having
a hard time getting the financing, which comes as no

(35:18):
surprise because again the landscape, the media landscape, the global
cultural landscape, the attitude toward queer people in this era,
because this was the early nineties, which also I.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
Mean, it was interesting listening to him talk about the
reasons that he was being turned down for funding, because
it sounded like, I mean, it was certainly in part
because it was a queer story, but also he mentions
that part of the criticism was that it was too funny,
and so it was like, oh, sure, you can tell
a queer story.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
Maybe, but only if it's completely tragic.

Speaker 4 (35:54):
Yeah, depressing, and there's not a moment of joy expressed throughout.
And I don't know he is, you know, using some
choice language to describe that process, but yeah, it was
just like it. You know, it's like incredibly frustrating to
be like, well, you know, maybe you we'll consider funding
this if the characters don't have a happy ending or
like don't experience joy, and.

Speaker 5 (36:16):
You know, it's like fuck you.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
Yeah, you know, you look at the landscape of what's
happening around this time. I mean, mainstream is expecting a
gay movie to be like Longtime Companion or Philadelphia, which
I think was I think came out the same year
or around the same time. There's so much there's just
so much tragedy. It's hard to think of frothy gay
comedies from the early nineties, you know, kind of understandably,

(36:38):
like there's a lot of like really tragic stuff going
on at this point in history. However, boy, oh boy,
you need to laugh you know, queer people were not
all like doom and gloom all the time, but you
wouldn't know it from the culture that was getting funded totally.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
And then casting this movie was another a pill battle
where they went out to several people. Any actors they
approached were either not available or simply not interested. They
didn't want to play a drag queen or a trans
woman or anything along those lines. And Terence Stamp, who

(37:13):
ultimately got cast as Bernadette, talks about how terrified he
was of playing this role and even you know, days
into shooting, was still like, oh my god, I don't
know if I can do this, and then describing like
during one scene everything just kind of like clicked and

(37:34):
he like stepped over the barrier and described just like
feeling fearless and eventually like you know, embraced the role
and you know, loves the movie now. But and you know,
part of the problem is that this is a movie
about queer people and the cast is all sis had

(37:57):
people question.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Mark, Yeah, as far as I know, you know, who
knows what's truly in their hearts, in their private lives.
But of course, you know, I love that this is
a film with a trans character, but I don't love
that it's played by as his man that is not
actually played by a trans woman. On the other hand,
you know, there was no Janet Monk type. You know,
the industry was not, let us say, nurturing trans talent

(38:21):
in the early nineteen nineties, so you know, obviously those
actors existed, but finding them and also getting funding for
something requires having some amount of star power in there.
And so Terreen Staff is, you know, this is somebody
who had been in movies for a long time, Billy
Budden then all the way up to Superman three four,
one of the Superman's is so you know, this is

(38:43):
somebody who has a bit of a name. So I
understand the need to get either Stamp or they went
to Tony Curtis before him, and like what trans star
could they have gone to at this point, because the
industry and even the independent film scene was really keeping
transactors down, was suppressing them, you know at that time.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
And there's such a like, I mean, this sort of
run of queer movies in the mid nineties that you
sort of see that trend again and again. I know that,
like it's impossible to encounter any article about Priscilla. That
doesn't mention the parallels between Tu Wong Fu, which is,
you know, for what it's worth, for all the annoying
Reddit posts I saw, they were developed independently of each other.

(39:23):
It is a you know, coincidence, but much the same.
You know where the movie was going with big names
that were all as far as we know it sis
head men. Yeah, it's like very much a product of
its time. And and I mean my instinct is like,
here is an opportunity to give a transactor a big

(39:43):
opportunity and make a career. But it seems like the
choice was, well, do we stand a better chance of
getting funding if we put a star in it, which
is really unfortunate kind of what is the word I'm
looking for, like business d decision to make.

Speaker 3 (40:01):
I would have loved to have seen. I think Calpernia
Adams was working around this time, and you know, again
not like a very famous, well known name, but I mean,
there you go, there's a trans woman who I think
would have been pretty astonishing in this role. Now I
don't think she's the right age for that, but like
I you know, I'm racking my brains to even think
of somebody obscure who could have played this character. And

(40:23):
I cannot think of anybody who's being given opportunities, any
transactress who is being given opportunities in ninety three ninety
four are kidding me, like.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
Which is really too bad because we know that Stephan Elliott,
you know, certainly knew plenty of transperformers and plenty of
drag performers because that.

Speaker 5 (40:39):
Was what the story was inspired by. I don't know,
it's difficult.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
I don't want to come down on Stephan Elliott too
hard because it is like a miracle that this movie
was made.

Speaker 5 (40:48):
At the time and in the climate it was made in.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
But nonetheless, yeah, missed opportunity. But that's just you know.
I think something that you see a bunch in this
film is cultural rules that we kind of maybe take
for granted, or at least have the privilege of having
now just didn't exist. Like the taboo around dead naming,
I don't think was as widely known. I mean, obviously
trans people understood why that was unacceptable then, but I

(41:14):
think it was not looked at. I think it was
still you know, by other queer people. It was just
kind of a joke to know somebody's dead name. Then
it wasn't understood to be the taboo that it should
have been.

Speaker 4 (41:23):
Right.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
So that's the thing about this movie where in some
ways it's ahead of its time and kind of helped
push the needle forward as far as queer representation in
mainstream media.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, it's a brave film in a lot of ways,
but at the.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Same time, it's still very of the time where it's
you know, casting assists actor to play a trans character,
and it's the thing where it's like, Okay, if they
need a star, I get that, but like, then why
not cast the role of Mitzi because Hugo Weaving at
the time was basically unknown. So like, cast as star

(42:00):
for Mitzi and then cast an unknown you know, if
you're gonna have an unknown actor anyway, cast an unknown
transactor for the role of Bernadette.

Speaker 4 (42:10):
Right.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
But at least this movie to bring up Tu wang
Fu again, because that's a movie, as we discussed on
that episode, doesn't seem to understand the distinction between drag
performers and trans women, whereas this movie does understand that distinction.
But again, it has the trans character played by a

(42:31):
sis actor. We also see several examples of you know,
Sis had people being horribly queer phobic toward these characters
and that being framed as a bad thing. But then
there are many other examples in the movie of bigotry
that is not condemned by the movie, such as Felicia
constantly dead naming and being transphobic toward Bernadette, or white

(42:54):
characters being cruel to Cynthia.

Speaker 5 (42:58):
For example.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
So it's a step in the right direction, but it's
also doing some very outdated, problematic things.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Boy, that's Cynthia character is so complex. At least my
feelings about her are very complex, because personally, I do
regard the character as being pretty racist and misogynists. However,
I've spoken to a lot of other Filipino people who say, no,
we actually I think she's funny and I like her. Yeah,
I get why she's she's tropy, and I get why
it's you know, a negative depiction, but also it's a

(43:28):
lot of fun to see her. And somebody compared it
to how a lot of queer people just really love
Cruella de Ville for example, or you know, there's like
there's corell Is probably not a great example because she's
not queer herself. I don't explicitly at least a.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Queer quoted villain like all those Disney movies are.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
Yeah, Hollywood Montrose is another one that I look at like,
this is a problomatic character being played by a as
far as I know, heterosexual actor Mishaque Taylor. But I
just I love of Hollywood Montrose and the Mannequin movies.
He's just so much fun. It's trophy and problematic, but
he's just soonat fun to watch.

Speaker 4 (44:06):
I saw Mannequin for the first time this year and
was blown away. My god, what incredible characters.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
Oh yeah, just like, here's the thing that Hollywood and
that Cynthia and Priscilla have is there scene stealers. They're
chewing the scenery, they're having such a good time, that
are running circles right or made characters, they're just stealing
the scene. And you know, if I was seeing myself
in that role as I am with, you know, in
a role like Hollywood, Like there's a lot of that
I see about him that is aspirational, I'd be like, yeah, cool,

(44:35):
good for you and the fact that you are playing
into some really negative tropes but also seems like you're
having a good time with it, and it's not like,
you know, this is where I think they differ. Hollywood
feels affectionate and Cynthia actually feels like this feels like
a malicious depiction. And I've heard Stephen Ellie olertefin Elliott
talk about like they were trying to send up they
were trying to make fun of racism. But I think

(44:57):
that it perhaps lacks some clarity for sure.

Speaker 5 (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (45:02):
Was fascinated to hear that in your video, and I
like the I mean, I'm never gonna argue a reclaiming
like it's not my place at all, but I did
see that there was there also has been like pretty
significant criticism of it, Like at the time the movie
was released, pulling from I believe scholarly journal Wikipedia here,
but there was a representative from the Center for Filipino

(45:26):
Concerns named Marginson, who you know, said more of what
I sort of thought might be the criticism around this character,
saying that she was portrayed as quote a gold digger,
a prostitute, an entertainer whose expertise is popping out ping
pong balls from her sex organ what a phrase, a manic, depressive,
loud and vulgar, the worst stereotype of the Filipina. She

(45:47):
argued that by portraying Cynthia in this manner, the filmmakers
were quote violently killing the dignity of Filipino women, something
she feared that would lead to quote more violence against us.
So there was also I mean, there has been plenty
of around the character as well. I understand the argument
for reclaiming not gonna you know, obviously be like you
can't do that, but I feel for this character. And

(46:11):
it also it's so weird because we just recorded an
episode about my best friend's wedding. Bear with me here,
But how like I think that Cynthia, for all of
her campiness, like her presence, also serves to make Bob look,
I think worse in a way that the movie doesn't
really seem to recognize or have an interest in examining,

(46:31):
because we see him basically like he locks up her stuff,
He's like kind of holding her hostage in the house.
He's dismissive to her at every turn. It's made to
be a joke. And then you know, when she escapes
question Mark to do the Pingpung dot MP three routine,
he like yanks her off stage and it's like very
physically violent, way fully abusive, and then when she leaves

(46:54):
that's also made to be like a joke, like she's
being unreasonable.

Speaker 5 (46:59):
We're like I would.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Leave, you know, And yeah, what I want from here's
my rewrite of Cynthia that I would have pitched where
I involved in this movie, which I want a scene
instead of her like storming out and leaving, I would
want like a little more intimate scene between her and
Bernadette where like it's the day after. They're like Bernadette's
just drinking coffee by herself and Cynthia comes over and
she like drops the act and she's like, look, I

(47:24):
just married this guy because I needed the immigration status
and I can't do this anymore. I'm exhausted. I'm getting
out of here. You can have them. Good luck to you,
and like so that Cynthia is not like this cartoon character,
because all the other characters are so well like realized,
just some moment where it's like Cynthia knows what's going on.
She's not like this hyper sexual freak and she's just like, yeah,

(47:44):
all right, this is my act. I'm going back to
Sydney and I'm going to seek my fortune out there,
and you know, like I want to see Cynthia and
Bernadette realize that they are equals or peers in some way,
and then they're just like these ships that are crossing
in the night. And Cynthia wants Bernadet. That's life, Bernette,
Cynthia's life, Okay, cool, Now she's a person. We don't
get that, No, we don't.

Speaker 4 (48:06):
You know, that's a way to bring, you know, potentially
bring Bob and Bernadette together in a way that feels
a little less icky. If Bernadette is like standing up
for Cynthia, like, look, if you don't want to be
married to her, that's fine, but you can't treat her
like that, and Bob having to recognize and at least
acknowledge how he's acting. It doesn't absolve him anything. I

(48:27):
think that, you know, Bernadette Anthea should ditch him personally,
but like, I don't know, I was a little like
it feels very of its time that Bob's behavior specifically
goes so unexamined because after this sort of like run
of him being only abusive to his wife, which we're
not supposed to care about because of all these heavy

(48:50):
racial and gender stereotyping that Cynthia has. He just turns
to you know, he turns to the gals and makes
a little joke. He's like, well, you know, some days
you just shouldn't wake up. And then he's like the
primary romantic interest of the movie.

Speaker 5 (49:07):
And you're like, it's it's naturally annoying.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Right because they join in on like the racism and
misogyny that both Bob is hurling at Cynthia and that
the movie is because they you know, they talk about
her like she's property that Bob should have quote unquote
sold her off. And to me, it's a reminder that

(49:32):
not everyone who belongs to a marginalized community will automatically
show solidarity or allyship to other marginalized communities.

Speaker 5 (49:41):
Unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
For example, there is a history of white queer people
being racist. There's a history of cis gay people being transphobic.
You know, we see examples of both in this movie.
And it's not as though we're seeing something unrealistic, unfortun
Really the problem is the movie presents that but doesn't

(50:04):
challenge it or frame it as a bad thing.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
I think the best you can say, and this is
not absolving it is hey, it's the nineties, Like this
is just reflecting some very common attitudes that would I
think evolve into like the edgy racism of South Park.
But you know, the thing of like the man having
some possession of the wife, and especially in like a
more rough and tumble sort of context like the Australian outback,

(50:28):
and you know, the casual homophobia, the casual raises, the
casual mibsogy, and that's just you know, hey, it's the nineties.
Not good. It's not a good thing. But like the
conversation about hey, maybe let's not do this, like would
have been greeted with like such an eye roll of like,
oh boy, here come the politically correct police. Right.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
But it's like if they wouldn't even have had to
do that, if they had just written this character better,
like if they'd written Cynthia Bettery, they wouldn't have needed
to have to address all the horrible Like I don't know,
I mean whatever, it's nineteen ninety four, and I know
that it's like putting twenty twenty four morals on a
nineteen ninety four movie as a non starter, but it's
even for nineteen ninety four. I feel like you know
there was room for improvement because it was criticized at

(51:11):
the time as well.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Exactly. Yeah, No, you know who knew that it was
racist was people who were the object of that kind
of racism there right, They could have told you it
wasn't like a discovery waiting to be made.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
The positive things that I will say, you know, for
the Bernadette Bob relationship, although I don't care for Bomb,
is that I was, you know, I guess, like on
the analysis pleasantly surprised that, first of all, that our
only trans character has a love story, which I feel
like is you know, certainly a rarity at this time,

(51:43):
and also that the oldest character has a love story,
because that also feels very unusual, and people over a
certain age don't have access to romance stories in successful
iconic movies. So I appreciated those aspects, but the actual
the guy himself wasn't a fo Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
I would have loved you know, Bob could maybe have
been redeemed somewhat for me if he had some quick
scene with Bernadette where he's talking about Cynthia and he's like,
I fucked up, you know, just something where he's you know,
instead Bernadt just calls him a gentleman, but you know,
some like awareness from him of like, you know, I
got into a shitty situation there, and I could have
done it. I wish I could redo. I wish I

(52:22):
could make up for what I did wrong there and
without realizing, and he starts doing nice things for Bernadette
and then the two of them eventually. I don't know,
I'm writing this whole. It's a completely different movie at
this point.

Speaker 5 (52:32):
But you just have to write another movie, I think, Matt,
it's you know.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
What, it's the Alan story, and we see what Alan's
been up to for the last thirty years. Yeah, and
he encounters Bernadette and Bob out in the desert or something.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
And you know, I forgot to revisit this. I know
that when I watched this movie and talked about it
a couple of months ago, I had just refreshed myself
on it. A lot of what we're talking about is
course corrected in the.

Speaker 5 (52:57):
Big musical adaptation.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
It's not a into one, and I'm trying to remember
what the specific changes were. But for those that have
seen the musical, please let us know, because there were
deliberate changes to sort of nineteen ninety four elements of
this movie to adapt it for the stage. Transactors are
in the main cast. I mean there's that I definitely remember.

(53:22):
I think that there were plot elements adjusted as well
to give Cynthia a fuller character, and I believe flushing
out the character of Marion a little more as well.
So anyways, if you've seen the show, I would love
to see this on stage. I want to see a
bus inside of a building.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
It reminds me of there's this point in the nineteen
seventies where Broadway got very like kind of high on
its own supply of like scenery and set pieces and
revolving stage, isn't it, you know, even into the nineties
with the helicopter and the chandelier. But there's this musical
in the seventies called on the twentieth Century Limited or
the two Century Limited that had like a giant train
set piece, Like that's kind of what the giant, glittery,

(54:06):
gleaming bus in the Priscilla Stage musical must feel like
when it was coming through Los Angeles. The Priscilla the Musical.
This would have been like twenty eleven or twelve. Maybe
I was working as an event photographer at the time,
and I was hired to shoot the red carpet, the
step and repeat outside I think it was the Pantagius
wherever it was playing in LA, And I remember, like

(54:26):
I shot the Red Carpet, and you know, it's that
whole like nightmare scenario of like all the photographers like
shouting everybody's name, look at me, look at me, all
right over here. And at one point Willim walks through.
Will and the drag We knew a lot of people
know from Drag Race and a lot of other appearances
in LA and other shows, and as far as I know,
Willim had no connection to this show and not done
anything with it. And the story that I was kind

(54:48):
of getting from like William just talking to other people
on the Red Carpet was he just saw that there
was this red carpet happening, and like as a drag personality,
just like kind of walked his way onto it and
then just home afterwards, just saw like, oh, the drag thing.
I'll just walk my way on the air and then
walk off. I don't know if that's one hundred percent
the situation, but that's like what I was understanding from

(55:10):
like the gossip that he was giving to the other
photographers who were there.

Speaker 5 (55:13):
That's incredible.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Yeah, it does look like a great Like these songs
are so good, you know, same thing with Mama Mia.
It's just like an excuse to like hear songs that
you love to hear and see some really fantastic costumes.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
Yeah, and this won the Academy Award for Costumes and
rightfully so, I think, like for all these movies' faults,
it is pretty amazing how well and how successful and
beloved this movie was instantly it wasn't. I mean, it's
considered a cult classic, but I kind of hesitate to
even call it a cult classic because it was a

(55:46):
huge mainstream success when it came out. It was like
one of the highest grossing movies that had ever come
out of Australia ever.

Speaker 5 (55:53):
And it centered around queer characters, and you know, the
flaws are the flaws.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
But I think that that is really cool and you know, lad,
I would imagine to other movies and just like you know,
a point of success of like here is a queer
movie by a queer director. Let's put money behind more
projects like this, which is stop and go over the years,
but that in itself is really cool because this movie
was made for less than two million dollars and made

(56:19):
back its budget like fifteen times.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
Yeah, I think, you know, for better for worse. Something
nice about Australia is that it doesn't have the same
moral panic as the US around drag. I mean, especially
in recent years. But I think just like with panto
shows and drag and camp in the UK, in Australia
it's much more of a fun and sometimes this is
you know, a negative thing, like you know, people who

(56:44):
are gender non conforming are minimized or seen as pure
entertainment rather than as full human beings. But you don't
have like the panic off like oh no, a man
in a dress, save the children, shield their eyes, you know.
I think that's how you can have drag in the
ceremonies of the Olympics and Kylie Minogue singing this ab
a song and paying tribute to this, like it becomes

(57:04):
this national icon like for US it's like Bruce Springsteen
or something in the US. And I love that in
Australia they have like this national pride in drag culture
and that's you know, I look at that as a
queer person I'm like, that's, you know, part of my
culture that everybody's like celebrating. And imagine, imagine the US
Olympics even today. Imagine you know, we're gonna get the Olympics.

(57:25):
I think in two years in la or maybe four
whatever it is, four or four years. Yeah, I the
uh from both of you when I mentioned that you're
dretting it already.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
But I saw that a few months ago. In April
twenty twenty four, the director Stephan Elliott announced that work
on a sequel was underway, with the original cast reprising
their roles, which is no offense.

Speaker 4 (57:48):
How I found out how Terence Stamp was still alive.
He's like eighty six.

Speaker 2 (57:52):
He's alive, He's kicking. And I don't know if the
movie will happen or not, but I'd be interested to
see updates that they hopefully make as far as you know,
eliminating the racism and the casualness with which Felicia is dead,
naming Bernadette, all that kind of stuff. And we've kind

(58:14):
of touched on this a little bit, but the way
Alan and the other Aboriginal characters are not at all characterized.
They're mostly just there's set dressing for these three main
white characters. Yeah, this is happening after a scene in

(58:34):
which Felicia starts to tell what seems like it's going
to be a very anti native joke. So like these
characters attitudes toward anyone who is not white is abhorrent
and on full display.

Speaker 4 (58:50):
Which fikes like the Australian nationalism a little yes, a
side eyed, because Australia has certainly colonized quite a bit
in its death and so to you know, be dismissive.

Speaker 5 (59:02):
Towards indigenous people and just really anyone who isn't white
and then be like in Australia is the greatest country ever.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
You're like, okay, I tried to like map that onto
like an American story, and you're like, yeah, not awesome.
But then also, you know, there is the argument for like,
you know, having a drag show about Australia being this like.

Speaker 5 (59:24):
Inclusiveness that you don't normally see.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
Very complicated, but yeah, in general, I mean, I guess
I just really wish that Alan got on the bus.
I know, he was such an interest and I feel
like we got to know him a little bit better
than we got to know other characters in these like
stopovers on this road journey. And I wonder if there
was a draft of this script where he joined the crew,

(59:51):
it would have been you know, wouldn't have you know,
resolved the way that this movie treats non white people
in general, but it would it would have helped, would
have helped to actually include him.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
I would love for a sequel to really lean into
the Aboriginal culture and to blend. Because we get just
a little hint of it. We get the digerido, we
get some Aboriginal language, some singing in this sort of
remix of I will survive. But if we get like fully,
you know, an Aboriginal approach to gender, like and performance,

(01:00:23):
and are like merging with more you know, European Western
kind of traditions, and we see those two things. I mean,
I what a great opportunity for some conflict intention too,
for Native people to say, we've been doing you know,
we've had our own attitudes about gender and sexual oritation
identity for thousands of years, folks, and so this is
our approach. And we're going on a road trip now,

(01:00:46):
you know, like a road trip to the big city.
Like it's going in the other direction. I don't know,
whatever it could be, but boy, oh boy, I would
love to see it. I don't know that's Stefan Elliott's
story to tell. Maybe he's an ep on that's kind
of a project. But I would love to just hand
the reins over to some great Aboriginal writers and directors
and see where they take it.

Speaker 4 (01:01:03):
Yeah, I just I am curious to see We're a
sequel with Go and I hope that. I mean, at
very least it does seem because there were changes made
to the musical that Stephan Elliott is.

Speaker 5 (01:01:14):
Not like closed off to, you know, acknowledging.

Speaker 4 (01:01:17):
Where their shortcomings in the original text. Have more nice
things to say about the movie say them I really love,
I mean, for all of their faults, I really appreciate,
like how wildly different that Bernadette and Tick and Adam
or Mitzi and Felicia are, and that all of the

(01:01:37):
conflict between them, you know, it just is very organic.
Sometimes it's like a generational conflict that is going on.
Sometimes it's a personality clash, like I don't know, it
is just so fun to watch them together, and especially
with the relationship with Bernadette and Felicia, I think that
that's like a really interesting and thoughtfully written friendship.

Speaker 5 (01:02:00):
Outside of the fact that Felicia like just repeatedly.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
Dead naming Bernadette, you do get a glimpse of like
Bernadette retaliates, but it's not clear that Felicia's actually learned
a lesson because it continues to happen to the very end.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
Of the movie. It's the last line, come on, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
That is the one area where I wish Felicia had
done a little bit more growing up, Like if right,
if he was driving off and said Bernadette, and like
it was the first time he called it by a
proper name, and that would have been such a better ending.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Come on. But there were moments with those characters that
I appreciated, I mean, you do, I think, like the
really lowest point of the movie is when Felicia is
attacked by the angry mob, which obviously was reflective of
how queer people were brutalized in Sydney, and there were
a lot of examples sort of given throughout the documentary

(01:02:51):
we'll be linking to of how that reflected, you know,
real life at that time, and that Bernadette steps up
and puts the fact that she doesn't really like Felicia aside,
and they have a moment and they I don't know.
I appreciated some moments worked, and that unfortunately was undercut
by Adam Felicia's complete.

Speaker 5 (01:03:12):
Lack of growth when it came to dead naming.

Speaker 4 (01:03:16):
And then with Mitty I really liked, I mean just
the when I was like returning to watch this movie
earlier this year, like you always sort of expect.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
Marian to be not who she is, Like you don't.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
I never am expecting for her to be like loving
and accepting, just because of how you know, how the
world is and how we've seen characters act in this
movie towards the girls leading up to this point. I
think it's really cool to see, you know, that happy
ending for Mitty and that you know this whole that
all these anxieties that are expressed throughout the movie of

(01:03:52):
like will I be accepted? Will I be able to
be a parent and do this job? And the answer
is of course you can, and that Benji is such
a sweetheart, and also a little Mary Kate and Ashley.

Speaker 5 (01:04:03):
Of like do you have my boyfriend? Do you have
my boyfriend? I think it is sweet, you know, and
something that you weren't seeing in movies very often.

Speaker 4 (01:04:11):
And you get the flip side of that as well,
with the understanding that you know, Bernadette was rejected by
her family and that Adam has a deeply complicated relationship
with his mom where he's like, I'll take the bus money,
but we're never going to be close, you know. Like
you see the sort of wide array of how these

(01:04:32):
characters interact with their own families and all of the
struggles they have, and I thought it was you know,
I mean, not perfect, but pretty well done. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
We also see that flashback of Felicia slash Adam telling
the story of how when Adam was a little boy,
his uncle tried to sexually abuse him, and Adam recalls
this memory with laughter because like he pulled the plug
of the bathtub and whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:05:03):
We turned the tables on his abuse are yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Yeah, but it's like interesting way to frame a story
about an attempt at sexual abuse, like child sexual abuse.
I don't know if there were certain examples where this
movie felt like it was taking a very serious situation
and like making light of it in a way that
felt tonally dissonant and weird, and like I understand, like

(01:05:27):
adding comedy in an attempt to like make a serious
topic more palatable or like finding humor, and I mean,
you know, tragedy plus time equals comedy. But like the
way this movie handled some of those examples, I was like, Okay,
I guess.

Speaker 4 (01:05:44):
I don't feel comfortable being like that works or it doesn't,
because I do sure appreciate that it's coming from, you know,
a situation where I think, you know, Stephan Elliott is
setting you up for a very tragic reveal and then
Adam gets the upper hand, and yeah, I don't know.

(01:06:04):
I mean, I definitely would understand if that doesn't play
for everyone, but I also understand why it does.

Speaker 5 (01:06:10):
Plays like a cathartic win which I feel like.

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
The characters in this movie at different points, you know,
because there are the real life queer phobia and homophobia
and transphobia of the world is constantly you know, basically
following them around and is sometimes inside of the bus itself.
But you do have like a series of moments in
this movie where I think, as an audience member and
just understanding the time this movie came out, you expect

(01:06:36):
something horrible to happen, and then the character's triumph and
that's cathartic, and yeah, moment to moment, I don't know,
you know, I get that it doesn't always work, but
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
Yeah, I think the triumph at the end, you know,
it's certainly not saying like, isn't child abuse hilarious? I
think that we're coming from a dark place with a
lot of the humorous situations, and you're right that there
is a catharsis of we came out on top to
you know, the extent that we could have in this situation.
You know, whether it's that flashback or I don't know,
find getting the chosen family at the end, there's the

(01:07:10):
gay bashing where the basher gets beaten up by Bernadette.
There's the woman in It's not in kouber Peedia, it's
in Broken Hill, where the woman in the bar is like, no,
you can't. Your kind isn't welcome here, and Bernadette has
this incredibly off colored joke that everybody laughs at. And

(01:07:30):
I guess, to me, the question is is the movie
punching down? And I don't think it is. I think
it's actually punching up and successfully most of the time.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
I tend to agree. There is the portrayal of working class,
small town people kind of painted with a very broad
brush of being like, they're not smart, they're closed minded, bigots,
things like that, And I mean that is a stereotype
that is to some degree rooted in reality, but to

(01:07:59):
paint all people like that with that broad stroke, which
I guess is kind of subverted with Bob a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
But like and the fact that we know that Adam
is from a fabulously wealthy family who are also openly homophobic.

Speaker 5 (01:08:14):
I mean, we don't get but we don't get it
as much time. That's sort of like a flash yeah scene.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
Yeah. Ultimately, you know, I get the sense that Adam,
his good looks and his money have insulated him from
a lot of suffering that the other characters may be
very familiar with. And so you know, it's not awesome
that he gets knocked around a little bit at one point,
but he experiences a gay bashing. It is terrifying. And
then I really do love the you know, I think

(01:08:40):
that has to happen so that we get the scene
where Bernadette has that wonderful line, don't let it drag
you down, let it toughen you up, and it sucks
that as a minority, you do have to make that
choice to either be dragged down or to toughen up.
And it's not always easy to do. Yeah, exactly, but
you know, look, sometimes that is the choice. Either you

(01:09:00):
can wallow forever or you can grate your teeth and
power through it, sometimes with the help of other people.

Speaker 4 (01:09:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
I love that scene, Like let it toughen you Up
is something that it sucks that you have to do it,
but you do.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
Yeah, And I do appreciate that. I wish this happened
to a greater degree, especially between Felicia and Bernadette. But
this trip, you know, strengthens their bond. They realize that
they need each other for just support and love and safety,
and that this trip brings these friends closer together in

(01:09:38):
a beautiful way.

Speaker 3 (01:09:39):
It really is the like it's the perfect road trip movie.
It's just like it's so Joseph Campbell, and it's like,
you know, the hero's journey of these characters. And I
know the comparison is often made Too Wang Fou. I
really do think, you know, there's a lot to recommend
about Tou Wong Fu. There are some things to recommend
about Too Wong fou and I think that this movie
really out does most other road Like I'm trying I

(01:10:00):
think of a road trip film that I like as
much as this one. I can't think of anything.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
My tops are little Sun Sunshine, and I would classify
Mad Max Fury Road as a road trip. Okay, Similarly
through the Australian Outback, I think is where the.

Speaker 4 (01:10:17):
Yeah it's I rewatched Yeah, because I saw Furiosa the
same week that I rewatched this, I was like, Oh,
Australian outback road trip movies, you know, they come in
all genres.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
Yeah, you know, talk about like Joseph Kandler, like the
Dan Harmon story circle, like the journey back to our
point of origin having changed. Like it is so clear
the parallels between Priscilla and Fury Road are so interesting
now that you mention it. It really does match up
to a lot of those plot beats that we expect

(01:10:48):
from a road trip movie from a really well tightly plotted,
eight part structured kind of story. It really hits them
at kind of the same points, doesn't it.

Speaker 4 (01:10:59):
Yeah, I think so, yeah, Yeah, there's I mean, there's
no doubt there's I totally understand why this movie is
a classic.

Speaker 5 (01:11:05):
There's so much to love about it.

Speaker 4 (01:11:07):
The last the just like a moment where just speaking
to your point, Matt about the resilience of these characters.

Speaker 5 (01:11:15):
After the bus is uh, you know, graffitied with slurs.

Speaker 4 (01:11:21):
There's just like that one moment with Mitsy tick something
akin to like, you know, you always think it's going
to get easier, but it still hurts every time, and
it's just a passing moment and within five minutes, you
know they've moved on. They're painting the bus allegedly lavender
like they're you know, a singing exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:11:44):
But you have those sort of like moments of.

Speaker 4 (01:11:47):
Reflection that I feel like really speaks to that this
is a queer movie from a queer director, because there
are plenty of movies centered around queer people that come
out in the nineties that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:59):
Are written and directed by straight people. And there's like
a dissonant element to it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
And I think like when Stephan Elliott hits, he hits
and when he missed his evisus, but that's you know,
the natrue.

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Can you imagine if they had done this movie just
a little bit differently, Like I can one hundred percent
see some like Grant Awarding body being like you need
you need a straight character to get the audience in,
like if they had like a fourth character on the
bus who is like they're straight. I don't know. It's
like now I'm thinking of like meat Loaf from Spice World,
but like there's some straight character in the mix there

(01:12:34):
who's yeah, you girls crazy? Oh yeah yeah. Metaf is
their must driver in space. I know this because it
came out on VHS when I was working at a
video store and we had like a list of like
five movies that we could play, is like Armageddon and
like all these like action films, and the only two
I could stomach were The Pro Shot of Cats and

(01:12:57):
uh and Spice World so many a top. I put
Spice World on because I couldn't stomach any other any
other thing in the on the on the approved list
for what was it, Strawberries?

Speaker 5 (01:13:07):
Okay, yeah, god, I need to rewatch Spice World. It's
been too damn long. I'm saying, what a what a treasure.

Speaker 3 (01:13:15):
I would say, give yourself permission to have the finger
on fast forward because there's some bits that's like all right,
just get me to the next music, get me hearing
the next song. But I would say the opening. The
opening of Spice World is I think one of the
I wouldn't put in the top ten, but it's it's
an upper tier opening of a movie with the music
in that and the finale is a lot of fun.
There's a moment where, oh my god, I love it

(01:13:36):
so much. There's a moment where a woman gives birth
and the Spice girls are all crowded around this woman
who's literally just given birth, and one of them says,
that's real girl power, and it is such an incredible moment.
I love it so much. Every time I see a
woman do something Amazican movie, I think that's real girl power.

Speaker 4 (01:13:51):
Nice feminism is such a trip, like what happened to
You're like, what are you saying?

Speaker 5 (01:13:58):
What are you on about? It's great?

Speaker 3 (01:14:01):
Yeah, don't anyway, So that's what's going down is if
you like, if you like the soil, liquid to the desert,
check out Spice World. Wonderful takeaway Yeah, two bus movies. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:14:11):
My other takeaway is ultimately, and to not a huge degree,
but this is a story about fathers and sons, but
a really like endearing one where it's kind of flipped
as far as like what you would normally see as
far as like a queer child not sure if they're

(01:14:32):
going to get the acceptance and approval of their parent,
and then we get this flip, and you know, it
also happens in the way that we see it represented
in this movie as far as the parent wondering if
you know, his child will accept him as a drag
performer and a gay man and things like that, and
the kid is absolutely fine with it. And it speaks

(01:14:56):
to how ridiculous it is that there's all this like
anti drag and anti trans legislation in the US and
elsewhere that it's they're justifying it as far as like,
but the kids protect the kids, and it's just like,
if you just don't teach kids hate, and he'll be
fucking fine with it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:18):
Oh yeah, it's wild because there's an episode of Alice,
the sitcom from like the mid seventies, where she's really
worried that her son is going to find out that
her friend is gay, and at the end of the
episode she finally she like sits them down. She's like,
all right, I need to let you know there's something
that you need to know about this guy, and the
kids like yeah, and like I thought, yeah, that's that's it.

(01:15:38):
That's always the situation.

Speaker 4 (01:15:39):
The kids are like so yeah, yeah, exactly, And at
the end it's like, yeah, extremely clear that Benji is
like better off now because like his family has like
tripled in size overnight, so.

Speaker 5 (01:15:52):
Many people to play legos with, Like, what more do
you want as a kid?

Speaker 4 (01:15:56):
Is fun?

Speaker 5 (01:15:57):
People to play legos with? Who love you? Come on?

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
I do wonder like tick is tick slash mitzi. As
far as I can tell, this is like her main
bread and butter is doing drag and now she's got
to raise a kid on this on this income. Now,
I know the nineties are different and the economics are different,
and we're not all spending like ninety percent of our
income on rent and in those days, right, But you know,

(01:16:21):
becoming a parent isn't just you know, assuming the role
of parenting full time. There's a lot of work that
this character's about to take on, and you know that's
not what this movie is. But yeah, I do, like
it's kind of like there's some movies where I'm like,
what happened the next day? Like Ghost is very much
like I think about that all the time. With the
movie ghosts, Like what right the day the next day

(01:16:41):
after ghosts? Like they call the police at the end
of that film, and you know there's all this stuff
that happens, like somebody gets killed. Anyway, what's the next
day after? You know, they all get back to Sydney,
and you know, I would love to see like that
kid's first day at school at his new school in
Sydney or whatever, maybe his homeschool, who knows whatever?

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
Another spinoff we need and addition to the Alan spinoff?

Speaker 5 (01:17:02):
Yeah, yes, does that?

Speaker 4 (01:17:04):
You would have anything else to say about Priscilla Queen
of the Desert, Not really, just that I love this cast.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
I mean, Hugo Weaving is in several of my favorite
movies a La the Matrix and Lord of the Rings.
I love that he went on to have a career
where he was like in these like huge blockbuster, high
grossing franchises. I also love him in Fifa Vendetta. I
love Guy Pearce. He is one of my crushes. Uh

(01:17:34):
he's so handsome. Terence Stamp. He plays a hilarious character
in one of my favorite movies, bow Finger.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Oh my God, I welcome to Mine Think. Oh my god,
I love that film.

Speaker 5 (01:17:47):
It's so good. It's so good, we've got to cover it.
I know, does anyone want a Bowfinger episode? Let us know?

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
Directed by Frank Oz the uh yeah, the Piggy Like,
what do you have to do here? Yuh yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
Anyway, so great cast and yeah, I really like this
movie despite its flaws.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
I will say this is what I you know, always
tell people about Priscilla is it is a great movie
to watch with friends, like watching a group, because the
music's so great and the dance is so great, that
mood is great. It is a fantastic movie to see
in like a huge group, like if there's like a
movie's in the park or just on midnight film or
and I just want to throw it out there if
anybody wants to organize a big screening at a venue

(01:18:31):
for Priscilla Queen of the Desert, fly me out to
introduce to apprecio whatever. I love this film. It is
so great to see as a mass group experience. It's
just one of those films that really like just begs
to be seen with three hundred people. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:18:45):
I would absolutely love to see this movie with a crowd.
Oh my god, it's a classic. It's a damn classic.
It's I can't believe it's thirty years old. This year's wild,
and I mean would I also would.

Speaker 5 (01:18:56):
Love to see the musical Holy shit.

Speaker 4 (01:18:58):
Yeah, if you're a fan of this movie, definitely check
out the documentary as well. It's a very it's a fun,
complimentary companion piece.

Speaker 5 (01:19:08):
Indeed, does this movie pass the Bechdel test?

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
I already made a case for when they drive Priscilla,
it passes. Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on
if you count Mitzi and Felicia when they're like in
their drag personas speaking to each other. If you consider

(01:19:34):
that a pass I'm fine with it. Obviously, drag is
a subversion of gender, so I'm like, yeah, I'm fine
with that. I would consider their conversations a past.

Speaker 4 (01:19:43):
It passes regardless, because Bernadette has conversations with Marian, brief
conversation with Marion, and also sherl who she beats in
that drinking contest.

Speaker 3 (01:19:57):
So yeah, it's not the warmest interaction, but yeah, no, no, And.

Speaker 4 (01:20:02):
I think her interaction with Mary it's pretty passing, you know,
like what is the stage like big.

Speaker 5 (01:20:07):
Or something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:09):
But yeah, I mean it certainly does pass. And I yeah,
I think regardless of where you land on that it passes.

Speaker 3 (01:20:15):
I think his passage happens in sort of a blurry
area of the gender spectrum, like it's somewhere I wouldn't
say like I would say, maybe it passes, like the
schmech Deel test, Like it's so it's so close.

Speaker 5 (01:20:28):
Spiritually the clear pass. Yeah, yeah, the Schmechdel test. Fishould
start introducing this, right, But.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
What about our nipple scale, where we rate the movie
on a scale of zero to five nipples based on
examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I think I'll
go like a three or three point five on this one.
I appreciate its place in history and how it helped

(01:20:56):
move the needle on queer representation in mainstream although, as
we've discussed, there's some very of the time elements of
it and also not of the time. Yeah, I mean
the racist and sexist portrayal of the Cynthia character. Justice
for Cynthia, having the Aboriginal characters mostly just as scenery

(01:21:21):
and backdrop while the focus is always on the white characters.
I think I'll land on a three point five nipples.
I'll give one to Julia Cortez, who played Cynthia. I
will give one to Alan Dargin Dargan who was an

(01:21:41):
Australian musician and seems to be playing himself question mark
in this movie because if you look on IMDb, his
character is credited as Aboriginal man, but they call him Allan,
which is that person's real first name. So I'm like,
is he just amos himself? We're not sure, but one

(01:22:02):
nipple to him. I'll give one nipple to my crush,
guy Peers. I hope he is not problematic. You always
run the risk of saying you like a man and
then you find out later that he's horrible, So hopefully
that's not true. And I'll give my half nipple to

(01:22:23):
Hugo Weaving.

Speaker 5 (01:22:24):
I'll go three and a half in this as well.
I mean on the movies, I like, it's higher than that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:30):
But I think for all the reasons we've discussed today,
it's a classic. It's a stepping stone movie that led
to more thoughtfully inclusive movies. But there's so much to
love about this movie, and I guess I will I
will just leave it at that because we've been talking
for an hour and a half, so I would give
it three and a half. I'm gonna give one to

(01:22:51):
Priscilla the Bus, who is recently discovered and is now
going into a museum as is her right.

Speaker 5 (01:22:57):
Wow, I'm going to give.

Speaker 4 (01:22:59):
One to Julia car because I will give one to
Stephan Elliott. And finally, I would like to give my
last half nipple to a city pastel, who is the
inspiration for Tick Slash MIDSI and is a cool testament
to how this movie sort of captured a lot of

(01:23:19):
the drag scene and characters and people that Stephan Elliott
loved from his formative years and put them in a
classic movie, which is always cool.

Speaker 5 (01:23:29):
Yeah, Matt, what do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
You know, I think I'd be inclined to assign it
to nipples. And one of them goes to the three
heroes on the bus and they can distribute it like
a like an evenly broken up pie chart amongst themselves,
and the other to the Australian outback itself and you know,
rising rising like ayers rock above the desert is the

(01:23:53):
center of that nipple going out to Australia, just the
country for you know, embracing this film.

Speaker 5 (01:24:00):
Mm hmmm, hell yeah, amazing. Well, Matt, Thank you so
much for being with us.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
This was so much fun, my pleasure. Thanks for having
me on and giving me a reason to talk about
this movie. It's been a big part of my life
ever since I discovered it. Thanks thanks to RuPaul on
vh one.

Speaker 5 (01:24:14):
Wow, I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Where can people follow you online? Check out your work?
Tell us everything.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
Yeah, so I've got a video from a couple of
years ago that i did on YouTube about this film.
I make videos on YouTube about the making of movies
and television from a queer perspective, so you can find me.
Just search for my name Matt Baum on YouTube. Just
had one about Howard Ashman and the making of Little
Shop of Horrors and The Little Mermaid.

Speaker 5 (01:24:41):
Incredible work.

Speaker 3 (01:24:42):
Thank you. And I'm working on one now about my
so called life the TV show, so that'll be coming soon.
And you can also get my book I wrote about
the history of queer characters on sitcoms. That's the books
called High Honey. I'm Homo and I just turned a
year old, So yeah, I talk about gays on sitcoms.

(01:25:04):
And I've also got a podcast called The Suws of Paris,
where I chat with queer folks about entertainment that's important
to them, So you can find the Seers of Paris
wherever you listen to your podcasts. Nice, amazing, Yay, thank
you so much, a pleasure, Come back anytime, happy to.

Speaker 2 (01:25:18):
You can follow us on Instagram mostly these days. At
Bechdel Cast. You can go to our Patreon aka Matreon,
where we do two bonus episodes every month on a
brilliant amazing theme and that's five dollars a month. Plus
you get access to our back catalog of bonus episodes

(01:25:39):
there's over one hundred and fifty at this point, all
for five dollars a month at patreon dot com slash
Bechtel Cast, and.

Speaker 4 (01:25:47):
You can get our merch at teapublic dot com slash
v Bechtel Cast.

Speaker 5 (01:25:52):
Never too early to holiday shop.

Speaker 4 (01:25:56):
And with that, let's let's hop on the bus. Let's
go well, let's go back to Sydney and raise our
young son, shall.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
We yes while singing Abba Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast
is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and
Jamie loftis produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Boord.
Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals
by Katherine Voskressensky. Our logo and merch is designed by

(01:26:25):
Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For
more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash Bechdel
Cast

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