Punch Drunk Love with Grace Freud

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zeph and Beast
start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hey Jamie, it's Caitlin. What's your credit card information and
your Social Security number?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Yeah, I'll give that to you. Okay, I'll give that
to you. Yeah, write it down, Write it down over
the phone. You're get wild, It's ready. I still do
that sometimes give it. I should be left in the past,
like make a purchase over the phone. Every once in
a while, you have to give someone your credit card
number over the phone.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
WHOA, I haven't done that in like, I don't know,
probably ten years.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I feel like it's mostly bet On behalf of my
mom or something where she still like makes purchases and
the like. It's so interesting how boomers are always think
they're like credit card numbers are being stolen, but they're
the ones saying them out loud on the phone, Like
I don't think they're really taking care. I would give
you my credit card number.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Thanks.

Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, welcome to the Bechel. Feel free to send us
your credit card number. You can definitely trust us.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Trust us.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
My name is Shamie Loftus.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
My name is Caitlin Deonte. This is our show where
we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the
Bechdel test as a jumping off point. Jamie, what's that.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Well, there's so many versions of this test. It is
a media metric created by a dear friend of the show,
maybe even our best friend. We've we spent two minutes
with her in person. She's our dearest friend and we
love our friend Alison. It's too whole minutes. Yes week

(01:47):
in Sacramento, a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
I know you guys hung out, but like she's your
best friend. Now, yeahh did you guys talk about Eddie
Santa Claus movies or eddiething like.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
You don't understand, you don't understand.

Speaker 4 (02:02):
I'm kind of like the Robin or in a more
gender Ermie says, back girl of the back as. And
now all of a sudden, I find out that Alice
Impactel can just Lotchida talk to you for twenty minutes
and not even seem interested. I saw the picture.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Okay, look wow, And all of a sudden, she's your
best friend.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
She's our best friend, great and our defense. We've been
begging her to be our friend for nine years.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Grace. If it makes you feel any better, you're our
bestest friend.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
I mean, I guess. I guess. I would like to
say that makes me feel better, But I think the
truth is I'm gonna go to become a banelike character
for the podcast.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
Come back with the mask and.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
The mad man definition. Let me see dearly yearly what. Okay,
that's too much. I thought it would look more like
a bane mask.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Or something, just like the Baines's voice is like right
up there in the pantheon of like voices that haunt
me from high school. Yeah, just be social studies class
is full of teenagers doing the bain voice.

Speaker 4 (03:28):
Okay, I'm sorry to disagree with you, JB. But the
Dark Knight Prizes came out two years after you graduated
in high school.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Okay, maybe I look whatever college college.

Speaker 4 (03:41):
Really, I'm just telling you because I took my entire
family to see the Dark Knight Rises as like a
nice thing. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (03:52):
I thought.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
I was like, I'm gonna do this nice thing, and
I hated it.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
It's not a very good movie.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
I didn't see it in theaters because I was sick
of the voice, which is why I didn't see so
many movies when they so Bane's in the third one,
not the second one.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
Bain is in the third one. Okay, and I'll tell
you this, Tom Hardy rocks it. But the problem with
that movie is they they don't let him just be
the villain, you know, like there's gotta be this tall,
y'all ghoul character that pops up.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Oh, that's right.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
Also, it was like, so they like make Batman lose
all of his money, and like how they do that
is Baine just like takes over the stock market and
presses a button and.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Then takes his credit card information. He takes his credit
card information and his social Security number, and he bleeds
him dry.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
He does what Georgia did to Bury. Wow, it all
comes around.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
We're talking about Punch Drunk Love today, not Dark Knight Rises.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
My favorite movie, my favorite movie of all time is
Punch Drunk Glove.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Well, listen, listeners, you can google what the Bechdel test is.
Because we didn't get we didn't get that far.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
We just passed it until we started talking about Bane.

Speaker 4 (05:08):
Until the Bechdel test posits that if two women are
in a movie and they talk about something I find
personally interesting, then it's good.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
Yes. Wait, so, so Punch Trunk Love is your favorite movie?
Tell us about your history with this movie.

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, I've seen Punch Drunk Love probably more than I've
seen any other movie, except for maybe Muppet Christmas Carol
or the Rankin Bass like Specials if you want to
call them movies, or maybe Elf. Okay, outside of the
Christmas category, have any Christmas movie?

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, what about the Santa Claus?

Speaker 4 (05:47):
That's true? Also, Actually I didn't. Oh, yes, okay, I'll
let you introduce me now.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
Oh, it's okay. Our guest is a writer, a comedian.
She's in the upcoming movie We Are Pat and you
remember her from our episodes on the Santa Claus franchise.
It's Grace freyd Hi.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
Everybody, we're really kind of like branching out this time.
I didn't even really realize that this is our first
non Santa Claus related endeavor.

Speaker 4 (06:18):
It is our first non Santa Claus related endeavor.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Check in, How is everybody feeling about this?

Speaker 2 (06:24):
It's strange.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
I do think I am shocked. I still haven't seen
the second season of The Santa Claus.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
That is shocking, I know, and I do.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
I haven't seen it either. I feel like were we
to watch it, we would still be like in the
first hundred people that have seen it, Yeah, they didn't
advertise it at all, so.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Certainly in the first hundred people that have had a
conversation about it, yes, you know, certainly. It's really the slop.
I mean, this is getting me down. I think that
they so much slop this movie series that I think
even the third one was so fun. You know, it
was weird, but it was so fun. Aesthetically, nothing I think.

(07:10):
What kills me about the show The Santa Clauses is
it just not shot like a movie. It's just shot
like slop.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
You know it's it does yet it looks very ai.
I don't know. Although much like The Santa Claus Punch,
Trunck Love stars a popular nineties comedian taking a turn
and trying something new out like being in a prestige
rom com or being Santa Claus two pass.

Speaker 4 (07:41):
That is so true.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
It's the parallels are striking.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
Speaking of two roads, I remember a time, the time
that my mom brought me to see Little Fokkers in
or it was maybe Meet the Fokers. It was Meet
the Fokers, not Little Foker's. And Hunstream Glove was out
at the same time, and I really wanted to go
see Punch Drunk Love because I loved Adam Sandler, and

(08:07):
my mom would not let me go see it. She said,
look to adult and then she brings me to meet
the Fockers, which is just all Penis jokes. The whole time.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
I was like, I don't have to meet the Fockers.
Is the alternative?

Speaker 4 (08:18):
She wasn't wrong, but but I do wonder what my
life would be like. I thought, I think about this
someone often if she had let me see Punch Drunk
Love with her, because I think I would have even
been taken with it at that age. I would I
think I was like eight or nine. I think I
would have been really taken with it, you know, because

(08:41):
it's a I don't know, it's the most special film
in the world to me. It just it's a movie that,
you know, I think that I can't. I can't like
this is gonna sound crazy, like it's something that I
would say is a joke, but it's one hundred percent

(09:02):
sincere Barry Egan. Adam Sandler's character in Punchdrunk Love is
the character I most relate to, I think, in maybe
all of fiction. And it's because, you know, when I
first saw this movie, I was eighteen, and I had
to watch it for a film class and I had

(09:23):
to do a shot breakdown of the whole movie. So
I had to watch it again and again and again
and again, and then I had to write my final
project about the diegetic versus non diegetic sound in the film.
And I think it really taught me about stories and

(09:43):
like the different components of a I mean like it
made me appreciate it. After that I did that, it
was hard to really hate a movie ever, you know,
like will you get such an appreciation for the mix
of it all? You know? And I mean I think
that I wouldn't love Megalopolis if I didn't see Punch

(10:06):
Drunk Love one hundred times.

Speaker 3 (10:07):
First, okay, okay, it's at the eleven minute mark Megalopolis
was mentioned. I was, okay that I was really creous
because what we when you were originally going to come
on late last year, it was going to be Megalopolis.
And then when we finally scheduled it was Punchdrunk Love,
and I was like, do I bring up Megalopolis? And

(10:29):
then I was like, no, Grace will on her own,
and there it is. There's no way Megalopolis will not
come up.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
It's it's it's we'll get more to Megalopolis. But a
movie I genuinely love.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Also, this is ultimately about Megalopolis.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
This is all everything. Well, the thing is, everything's kind
of about Megalopolis because everything is about the future. Oh
you know it's lead back, yes, but like in a
way all roads duly to me by so Punch Trunk Club.

(11:08):
I'm seeing and this point of my life when my
brain is falling apart, I'm having these huge manic spikes.
I'm losing a lot of friends. My bipolar disorder started
to really set in when I was like sixteen seventeen,
and it reached a real fever pitch by my first

(11:30):
year of college. You know, I'm having these experiences where
I'm like not remembering things I've said, and like, I
have these moments of such intense emotion that are coupled
with long stretches of I'm just kind of in my
room and I'm being chill, and I and I'm kind

(11:53):
of feeling like, well, why why can't people see me
as this person who wants to being nice, you know,
And I can't stop drink. Drinking is a big part
of it, and using is a big part of it,
and it's just out of control. And so I'm spending

(12:14):
these long stretches just in my dorm room too, because
I feel like I'm scared of interacting with people and
scared of I just don't know what my emotions are
gonna be and how they're gonna shoot. And I've had
that kind of since I was a kid, but it
got to this really bad place, and I'm like seeing

(12:35):
my therapist a few times a week. I'm trying different medications,
and some of these medications have really harsh side effects,
you know, Like I try Abilify once and I'm like
literally drooling all the time. I'm having these intense panic attacks.
And also I'm kind of being a dick because I'm

(12:56):
like dealing with all of this and I just don't,
you know, this was me at a big like a
big bottom, and I look back, you know, I'm someone
in recovery. I look back at different bottoms I've had,
and I definitely the drinking and using was part of it.
But I think the big thing was I'm being hit

(13:16):
with bipolar one, this huge, huge mental health disorder that
I think people are very glib about off it, you know,
or people call themselves by polar Yeah, we all know this,
people do that online. Yeah, But bipolar one is I
think it's very hard to understand what mania is, like

(13:37):
like medical mania, if you haven't been in it, you know,
and then you snap out of it, You're like, why
did I act like that? And there's not like the
reason is you were manic, you know, But that's hard
to get across to other people that are also eighteen
and figuring stuff out. You know, I was sick. I
was not not unleathium yet, which ended up being the

(14:00):
thing that really helped. And if anybody is listening to
this and it's afraid of trying with me, I'm like,
I was because you've heard a million bad stories about it. Well,
you know. So that's the thing that if you do
have bipolar, what if you are keep having menic episodes,
give it a shot, you know, because it's this thing

(14:22):
that like if you if you do have the deficit
in your head when you start taking it. It's night
and day, you know, after a few weeks, and you
get through through through that. But also, since I was
a kid, I had problems with emotional spikes to some degrees,
and I always had this feeling of like just being
so put upon, and so it was hard for me

(14:45):
to take responsibility for the consequences of those spikes or
tantrums or whatever you want to call them, because my
life felt so hard that I'm like, don't you see
how shitty everything is? Just ignore that, you know. I
never let that be. And Punch Trump Glove is this

(15:08):
film that has this character Barry Egan in it that
is just so sweet and so has closed himself off
to the world, mostly in my interpretation from his acknowledgement
that he has this anger and this mania in him,
you know. And I you know, I didn't even know

(15:29):
the term neurodivergent at the time, and I don't know
if I even love that term. But as someone who
really struggles with understanding certain emotional things sometimes or like,
I've really had to work on a lot of those
different things, and I'm so I can be very obsessive

(15:49):
about certain things and not let them go. I just
saw someone who was so you know, not kind of
loud and gregarious like I can be. But Barri's quiet
moments look so much like my quiet moments, and his
outbursts look so much like my outbursts, and his desire

(16:11):
for everyone to just see him as this person who
isn't just those outbursts because most of the time he
is just fine, was so palpable. I think what Adam
Sandler does on this role is just beautiful. I think
it's his best role by far. Like I think what

(16:33):
he does in Uncut Gems is slick and funny and
impressive and emotional. But what he does in Punched Drunk
Glove is he really makes all the wants and desires
and loves and resentments of this very quiet character so

(16:56):
apparent moment to moment to moment to moment. And he's
also very funny while he does it. I you know,
this is a funny film. Yeah, whenever somebody says, well,
Paul Thomas Anderson calls it his romantic comedy, but it's
not really funny and like, hey, what, like what do
you do you just like with somebody of shit on

(17:18):
the floor, Like right, I feel like it's.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Like they're What they're trying to say is like, it's
not funny in the way that an Adam Sandler comedy
is quote unquote is supposed to be funny. But like,
you can't watch the scene where he's ranting about putting
for thirty seconds and be like, I'm that's I feel
nothing like it's great.

Speaker 4 (17:39):
It has one of I think the funniest lines in
all of cinema, which is after Barry smashes the deck window, hm,
it cuts to the closet that he's in calming down
and his sister's husband, his brother in law, comes in
and there he's like you're He goes, you're a doctor, right,

(18:00):
and he's like yeah, and he's like could you maybe
you know you have like someone like you help people
with problems, like emotional problems, and the brother in lago's
very I'm a dentist. Yeah. It's perfect, And this is

(18:20):
all in the This film does something that I think
Makelawfelis also does very well, which is I had all
one opera, you know, the whole thing start to finish
is such one big story, musical story quill you know.

(18:44):
But I see in Barry so much of myself and
I think the story is so beautiful because he finds
someone who understands him and views him, like really views
his humanity. And you see that holy, you see that
like in its entirety because when Lena is left at

(19:06):
the hospital, when he like ditches her and you get
you understand why he's doing it, but she meets him
with like this hurt me. It's not like she just
sees him and it's like, okay, so you can do
whatever because you got a weird brain, you know. She
like she really treats him as a person that she
also has expectations of and love for and understand me.

(19:29):
They all come together, you know. And I have found
in my life being the person that I am, it's
very hard to find someone that does all of that,
you know, and isn't like a switch, you know. I
feel like as a mentally ill person, I've been in

(19:49):
relationships where either they are totally supportive to a point
that's maybe not like healthy, you know, or they're done
with it, you know, and it's like a switch that
can go on and off and on and off, you know.
And I think it's really beautiful that she's able to
like she just she knows herself so well and what

(20:10):
she wants, and she's able to not change that based
on Barry. He just happens to be someone she does
love and want. I think this is the greatest love
story of all time, and it's a it's very taum.
It takes place in apartments, yeah, and in the San
Fernando Valley, you.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Know, like over the course of like four days. Maybe, Yeah,
it's pretty tight.

Speaker 4 (20:35):
Yeah, it's more than four days because we don't quite
know how long they're in Hawaii.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Oh ray, I forgot Okay, so yeah, maybe maybe as
much as two weeks, but it's still pretty quick.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
And this goes to my next contention, which is I'm
going to ask a question that I don't know why,
but you two never seem to get along to asking
on this podcast, which is does this film pass the
Bechdel Test? And my answer is yes, it does. And

(21:08):
the reason you're acting like we.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
Were, like we started the show by saying it doesn't.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
Okay, Well, this is first, this is my reasoning. Adam
Sandler's character, very Egot is a woman. Okay, expand on that,
Oh God, I should have thought more about it. I

(21:35):
don't think that there was any intention on on Paul
or Adam's parts to suggest that Barry is trans, nor
do I think you know, I'm I'm of the mindset,
generally speaking, that someone is trans if they say they're trans,

(21:55):
if not like the Kurt Cobain stuff, everyone says Kurt
Cobain is a transform And I think it's beautiful to
like see that Kirk Cobain had an understanding of his
gender that seemed expansive in some way. But I'm not
going to take away his right to have said who
he was or not while he was living, you know.

(22:16):
I but very to me is someone who is so
he's he has seven evil sisters and which feels.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
So like fairy tale coded somehow, yes, is a.

Speaker 4 (22:35):
Fairy tale and he's constantly mocked by them for being
gay and not a man.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
You know.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
He has this like man costume, you know, in the suit, the.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Blue suit, and he wears in every scene of the movie.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
I think, this beautiful blue suit that's supposed to look cheap,
but I think looks beautiful.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
I think it looks great well, and I loved how
subtly it's put in that like it's weird to people
that he's wearing it. Because like, this is the only
thing we know he's wearing, but every like more than
one of his sisters are like, what the fuck are
you wearing? And it's like he's trying something out.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
His colleague comments on it too, Gusman, Yeah, who.

Speaker 4 (23:17):
Is great in it too. Louis Guzman is so funny.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
At its to your character actor.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
He is the only character in the whole thing who's
he's he's in a fairytale. You know. Everyone else is
kind of going about their lives and Louis Guzman is like,
how many of her free stories are we going to
go to get?

Speaker 3 (23:38):
He's great, He's my dad's favorite actor. Oh my Louis
Guzman head. I think mostly because of Boogie Knights, but
also Louise Guzman's in like hundreds of movies and yeah,
he's so great.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
And you know, I think that, uh, he's so the
skin that he is, in the life that he has,
he seems to be looking for beauty and intimacy that
is outside of what is expected for him, which I
think is put on display most clearly in that initial
phone call with the phone sex hotline woman. And it's

(24:16):
not the first movie, obviously, wh or someone just wanted
to talk. But there's not any faint like an Annie
Hall or whatever. It's like, here's this creepy guy. You know,
Barry never comes off as some creepy guy, at least
to me. You know, he doesn't have an ulterior motive.
I'm not saying it would have been bad if he

(24:37):
wanted to just jack off. Maybe he does jack off.
There's nothing bad with that, but he likes, he craves
this intimacy and he craves the.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
I think this movie would be interesting in conversation with
Friendship because I just saw Friendship and both movies are
about like male loneliness, and I kept kind of being
reminded a Tim Robinson character when I was watching Adam
Sandler in this movie.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
Yeah, I see it.

Speaker 4 (25:06):
I can see that.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
I mean, they're definitely totally different, and one is way
more absurdist than the other, but yeah, I see it.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
Though, I think that that makes sense, and there's like
there is this I like Barry. I mean, whatever, we
don't need to pit them against each other, but I like,
I think Barry's character has a lot more depth.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
But like, yeah, I do.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
I do kind of like how he's even at his
most vulnerable, unstable moment, whatever it is, you're totally regress.
Like he's he's very lovable, like we and it feels
like with with making like having that moment of intimacy
and just wanting to talk, it feels like he's trying
to have in a way that is like very human,

(25:53):
have a little bit of.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
Control over a moment of intimacy that feels so like
all in every other area of his life. And it's
not for lack of effort on his part. It's like
these family dynamics are.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
A fucking nightmare. Like yeah, you know, we could talk
about that in a bit too.

Speaker 4 (26:15):
Yes, Friendship and pun Trunk Love have main characters that
are our lonely men. But Friendship seems to posit that
male loneliness has a unique aspect to it, or like
to focus to focus on those unique aspects. I'm not
saying that there aren't some unique things, you know, Like

(26:37):
their big tagline was like men shouldn't have friends, and
there's you know, like yadi aadiyada, right, And I'm like,
great movie, funny movie. Unstrunk Love is anything is about
the universality of loneliness, you know, And I'm not just
talking about Barry and Lena. I'm talking about Mary min

(26:57):
Rashka playing the main sister that you see is Lena's friend. Yeah,
her loneliness, her desire to have something to do in
her life, which happens to be harassing her brother. You know,
the loneliness of of Philip Seymour Hoffin's character Dean what's his.

Speaker 3 (27:17):
Name, I kep Dean Furniture, Dean Mattress, Dean Trumbull, Dean Trumble,
Trumble Mattress in frind.

Speaker 4 (27:25):
Yeah, that's a lonely man.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
You know.

Speaker 4 (27:27):
Obviously he's just sparking orders. There's no he has no
peers because he's put himself on the top of his
trashy you know, the ladies behind it. Like everyone in
this movie is lonely, and it's that's this, it's this.
It's another similarity to Megalopolis in that like it's this

(27:48):
big thematic orchestral piece. But the thing about like everybody
in Punish Trunk Club is lonely. Everybody in Migalopolis is
upset about megalopolisliness.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
But it's a universe, but the universality of the feeling. No, Yeah,
I do think that this is like a big story
about just capital l loneliness that anyone can sort of
tap into really quick. Kitlyn, what's your history.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
With this movie?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
I had seen this movie once before. I remember thinking
how different it was from every other Adam Sandler led
movie I had seen up until that point.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
I feel like that was the headline at the time, too, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
And I was I think, like many people who saw
this movie, including Adam Sandler himself, I was shocked that
he had any capacity for versatility. But I was like, wow,
he actually like does a good job and he plays
a character that I don't hate. And to be fair,
you know, when I was young, I was watching Billy

(28:57):
Madison and living, laughing, loving it. But by the time
this movie came out, I was like pretty sick of
his little antics. But then I was like, wow, he's
he's good, and uh, that's pretty much it. Paul Thomas
Anderson is he can be hit or miss For me.

(29:19):
I like movies of his like Magnolia and Boogie Nights.
Phantom Thread, I didn't really like the first time I
watched it. I think I might need to go back
and rewatch it else. I hate liquorice pizza, and I
have to say that out loud.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
I didn't like Phantom threadfoor I didn't. I didn't connect
with Phantom Thread the first time I saw it, and
then the second through three thousand times I saw it,
I was like, wait, so well, but I had that
experience a lot with his movie, specifically where it doesn't
always connect with me on the first watch. But I
also I haven't gone back to liquorice Pizza. I wasn't
a big fan of it.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
I will always hate that movie no matter what.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
I'm pretty sure Phantom Thread is another film that I
really connected with the protagonist. And because uh, I think
that Reynolds Woodcock and Barry Eating are two sides of
the same coin in some ways. But Barry is dealing
with his loneliness and fear by acting as if he

(30:13):
has no control and no agency in his life, and
Reynolds Woodcock is acting as if he has total control
and complete agency in his life. You know, they're both
obsessive too, but about one is about trying to.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Like trying to accumulate.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
Of himself, you know, yeah, yes, yeah, but he's he's
like before he has a reason to use the airline miles,
he's accumulating them simply because it seems like a smart
thing for him to do, right that might make people
respect him or like be a good resource.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
In the reveal that he has never, in fact been
on a plane before is like, so I just thought,
like the pacing of like how stuff is revealed in
this movie is so good because you just do assume
that someone accumulating airline miles has been on a plane.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
Yeah, no, but I totally see that connection of Yeah,
they're both obsessed with control, but one is obsessed with
the lack of it he has, and the other is
trying to maintain the control he imposes, and.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
He's creating this like fake identity. Yeah, like he doesn't
care about his warehouse or like you know, like he's
he's a man with no passion until he finds it.
And Reynolds is a person that has all the passion
in the world and no capacity to take a moment

(31:41):
of like seed any of that passion.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
For the reality of a relationship, the reality of a family,
Yadi Yadi Audiata, Paul Thomas Anderson, I love you all
the baby, I.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Need to rewatch throw it again. Jamie, what is your
history with Punch Drunk Glove.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
I really like this movie. I saw it for the
first time in college and I've revisited it from time
to time. It's not my favorite Paul Thomas Anderson. I'm
I think I'm ultimately there will be Blood, Girly. My
brother and I used to do a really powerful double
feature of There Will Be Blood and Doubt, and that

(32:25):
was our late two thousands double feature that we would do.
Really wanted to think some big thoughts. So I am
ultimately there will be Blood girl. But I also love
that this movie is sandwich between Magnolia and There Will
Be Blood. There's just the guys. Got range Io had

(32:45):
a funny letterbox review of this movie where it was
like something akin to like, oh yeah, like Paul Thomas
Anderson made Magnolia and then was like, oh wait, I
should make a movie that's short, and that is how
we came to get Punch Drunk Love.

Speaker 4 (33:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (33:03):
I really like this movie. I've never really watched it
with a critical lens at all. I just this is
very much a movie I've just let wash over me
in the in the many times I've seen it, so
I'm excited to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Let's take a quick break, and then we'll come back
for the recap.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
And we're back.

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Here's the recap of Punch Drunk Love. We meet Barry
Egan played by Adam Sandler in his office, which we
will eventually learn is inside a warehouse slash business that
wholesale sells toilet plungers.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
Awesome, not just toilet plungers, novelty toilet plungers.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Yeah, that seemed to have water in the hand. Question
markers funger.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
I don't know what that is, but they're fun.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
They're fun, he says.

Speaker 4 (34:07):
Keep them at eye level so that the kids can
see him.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Ye, yes, yes, yes. So he's on the phone asking
about some like airline miles promotion that's going to come back,
of course. Then he steps outside and sees a bizarre
sequence of events. First, a horrific car crash that never
comes back in any way or I don't. I'm like,
is this a metaphor? I don't understand what this was?

(34:32):
And then another vehicle pulls up right in front of him,
drops off a little miniature piano, and speeds off a harmonium.
Shortly after that, a woman played by Emily Watson pulls up.
She's there to leave her car at the auto mechanic
next door, but they're not open yet, so she leaves

(34:52):
her car keys with Barry to pass them on to
the mechanic and he's like, oh, okay, beca because.

Speaker 4 (35:00):
He says no at first, he says.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
He's reluctant because the thing with him is we've alluded
to is that he has a significant amount of social anxiety.
He is awkward in social situations, he's quite jumpy, has
like a nervous energy in general. Then Barry brings what's
it called a harmonium.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
A harmonium, yes, which is like a piano accordion, but
like an accordion like has the piano, but it's like
it's like upright and it's broken.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Oh, and that's why he puts the tape on.

Speaker 4 (35:35):
You has to fix it.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, it's like Barry himself.

Speaker 4 (35:40):
And he just puts it on top of his desk.
It covers like this whole desk for the rest of
the movie. It's just yeah, I do love that.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah, And it's it's just like a yet another thing
that anyone he encounters is like what is that? What
the fuck is that? And he's like, oh, it's just
this thing.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Yeah, okay, so that when he starts a busy day
of work where he and his colleague Lands played by
Luis Gusmann, are selling the fungers, but Barry keeps getting
interrupted when his many sisters call him asking if he's
going to a party tonight. One of his sisters even
shows up. This is Elizabeth played by Marilynn Rashcub, who

(36:21):
says that she wants to bring a friend of hers
to the party who she wants Barry to meet, but
he is not into this idea, though he does seem
to be thinking about the woman who dropped off her car.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
Mm hmm, I guess what bitches, Wait, we don't know that.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Well, yeah, we don't know yet, but it is the
same woman. Anyway. We cut to Barry showing up at
the party. It's his seven sisters and their husbands, and
they're all very antagonistic toward him. They're reminiscing about how
they bullied him, how when they were kids he threw
a hammer through a glass door, and.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
They importantly ask, hmm, how do you get the hammer?
And nobody has an answer.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
I like this, I mean we can talk about because
the sisters feel very fairy tale coded to me. You know,
they are outside of Elizabeth, very indistinguishable from one another.
They are all sort of this like, you know, and
they're you know. We could talk about how the antagonists
in this story are generally women at some point, but

(37:28):
but I did, like, I thought the casting on the
sisters was so good, like that sequence. It just this
is a movie where this isn't even true of all
Paul Thomas Anderson movies, where everyone looks basically normal, like
everyone looks like you could meet them, and I just like, it's,
you know, it's a very white movie, like I'm not

(37:50):
you know, but this is like Adam Sandlor and Emily
Watson look like people you could meet in the world
as a couple, and as someone who saw Materialists last night,
I value that. I value people that look like they
exist in the world. I mean, and his whole family too.

Speaker 4 (38:07):
Emily Watson is a very beautiful woman but is never
presented by the film is like houci Mama, what's going on?

Speaker 1 (38:17):
You know?

Speaker 4 (38:17):
Okay, which a lot of even like Fancy Dancy remained
a comedies that are not like horny like in the
Nana's Only Round common like classical way are like Oh,
look at this woman. You want to fuck so bad,
you know, right, Like it's like that is kind of
how she's presented in some way, you know, but that's
not in this movie. She's just a lady. Yeah, a

(38:39):
beautiful lady about a lady exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:42):
Like the way she's framed in the way that she,
I don't know, acts like you could tell they're interested
in each other. You can tell they're falling in love.
But it's not like super didactic in the way it's shown.
I just I love when people are in movies and
they have regular teeth.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Yes, okay, so they're talking about this thing. They do
say where he got the hammer? He was building a doghouse.
His one sister comes out from the bathroom and she's like,
he was building a doghouse. But anyway, this, you know,
triggers some bad emotions in him, and he kind of
snaps and he kicks a bunch of windows or sliding

(39:18):
glass doors and they shatter and everyone's like, what the
fuck man? And then he confides in his brother in
law in a scene that we briefly mentioned, but he
says he doesn't like himself. He might want psychiatric help.
Sometimes he cries for no reason, and then he bursts
into tears. We cut to Burry at the grocery store

(39:40):
shopping for healthy choice products that have this promotion where
you get a bunch of frequent Flyer miles if you
buy you know, ten frozen meals or ten puddings, and
you'll get even more miles if you have this certain coupon.
And we see him clipping this coupon, and as he's
doing that, he notices an ad for a phone sex hotline,

(40:04):
so he calls the number. He gives his credit card information,
his address, his social security number, and he starts talking
to a woman named Georgia who is trying to do
her job. She's trying to do phone sex, and it's
clear that again he just wanted someone to talk to,

(40:25):
so he's not really doing phone sex. Back he eventually
goes to bed side. Note he has one of those
clap on clap off lights.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Such a good detail. Oh I love it.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
All my nipples are going to the clap off light.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
I will say that the thing that I found myself
connecting with Barry the hardest on is like that sequence
that happens right before where he's asking his brother in
law like can you get me help? You know, and
his brother in law, I think, like many of the
men specifically in this movie, does want to help him
but doesn't really know how and sort of just doesn't

(41:02):
really do anything. And then Barry like channels his energy
instead into this like hyper specific task. So he's like, Okay,
I tried to get help, I wasn't able to get help.
We're going back to the pudding thing.

Speaker 5 (41:15):
And I.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
Have experienced that spiral a number of times over the
years of like, well I did my best, and now
back to my hyper specific task.

Speaker 4 (41:26):
If you name a few, I can't think of any
that I've seen you do.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Oh, I mean it's I was like, wait, really yeah,
But it's like I don't know. It's fun to see
stuff like that too, because it's also like he's doing
the kind of things that I also do, but that
like you don't tell people you're doing the pudding thing, right,

(41:52):
Like it's I love that he's doing the pudding thing
and he's thinking about it and like, well, I don't
want to spend two dollars in the karaoke I can.
I can, Like there's a whole like matrix of information.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
I was like ah. He also makes sure the pudding
thing is ethical. For the record, she's off the phone
with the health Insuran we thought the GETTI and he's
asking them, are you aware that this could you know? Result?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, the monetary value of the price is way more
and they're just like, I don't know. And he's like.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
Okay, And that's how we're introduced to him. Yeah, this
is like being bad kind of too, Like this is
like his fine. I think he feels like he's getting
one over on support.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
Yeah, I like how Yeah, And everyone who talks him
they're like, yeah, you could buy three thousand dollars worth
of pudding. We can't stop you.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
This is also based on a story a guy named
David Phillips. He successfully accumulated over a million frequent flyer
miles after buying three thousand dollars worth of Healthy Choice,
and Paul Thomas Anderson went to David Phillips. He went

(43:05):
to Healthy Choice. He's like, can I use your story
slash your product in my movie? And they're like sure.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
I love that. I do appreciate because like most people
wouldn't go to the guy who bought three thousand dollars
worth of putting to be like just checking in, Like
imagine if Law and Order did that, which they never do,
Like I appreciate that thoroughness from Paul Thomas Anderson.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah. Anyway, so he's had this phone conversation with Georgia.
It ends off screen, and then the next morning, Georgia
calls him again asking if Barry can help out with rent.
She needs seven hundred and fifty dollars and he says, no,
I'm sorry, I can't afford that, and then she kind

(43:52):
of starts threatening.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
Him, explicitly threatened him. Yeah, she goes in it pretty
quick for' actually for may that is.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
True barry hangs. Up he goes to work reveal that
he has bought hundreds of. Puddings he's now kind of
panicking after this phone, call and so he cancels his credit.
Card then his Sister elizabeth shows up again with the
woman who had dropped off her car yesterday because she's

(44:24):
the woman Who elizabeth wanted to introduce wow To, barry
and her name Is. Lena and then as this scene goes,
on things get more and more. Chaotic but basically they
Invite barry to get breakfast with. Them they're interrupted When
georgia keeps calling and continues to be very aggressive and.
Threatening he keeps hanging up on. Her Then elizabeth is interrogating.

(44:48):
Him Then lena starts chatting with him and trying to like.
FLIRT a forklift, Crashes everyone's, like what's this? Pudding what's this?
Piano why are you wearing this blue? Suit? Again and
then Eventually lena And elizabeth go to, leave But lena
comes back and Asks barry out on a date the following,

(45:09):
night and he. Agrees we cut to. Provo, utah we
Meet georgia or the person who's like pretending to be
This georgia.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
Person my head canon For georgia is that she is
a Like mormon dropout who's trying to get.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
By, yeah she is collaborating with a guy Named, dean
That's Philip Seymour hoffman to go After.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
BARRY i mean she's working with for. Him, yeah explicitly
she's working for.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Him, yeah Because dean owns a mattress, store.

Speaker 4 (45:46):
Which is a front for his, gang basically his criminal.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Activities he's got his you, know he's got his hands
and a lot of. Businesses he's got a lot of
things going on out of.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
This.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Yeah but, yeah she definitely works for him and seems
a little scared of, him because later, on when When
barry demands to speak to the manager of the phone sex,
hotline she does refer to Phil Seymour.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Hoffmann, Right but for, now they're sending a bunch of
minions To barry's house In la to intimidate. Him so
back In, La barry And lena go out to. Dinner
she reveals that she saw a picture of him with
his sisters and she wanted to meet, him and she
dropped her car off at that mechanic to try to meet.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
HIM i think it's, see it's maybe a little stocker, vibes.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
But it's it's a little, stockery but it's, not she
admits the worst type of. STOKING i don't think it's.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
STOCKERY i think everybody gets one, play you, know like
to meet someone they want to, meet or like a romance.
Someone you get one play and if it doesn't, work you,
pack you're bagging you go.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
HOME i think that's.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
Fair but everybody gets one. Play obviously the play is
and showing up at someone's house that you don't, know
but like.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Context is very.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
Important, yeah you, see, like, hey that cute person you know,
them and then like you're, like, HEY i got your,
number or like that's one. Thing you get one shot
and then the SHOT's. Done that's. It but you'll get one.
Shot and she took her shot.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Because it's Like i've done stuff like, that And i've
gone to comedy shows of Comedians i've had crushes, on
hoping to like talk to.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
Them and ALSO i think the critical thing here Because
i've seen this criticizes stock you, behavior but like it
is like it Passes Grace freud's one shot, rule and
it's like it's not what she does is not like
leering or menacing or creepy at. All she just wants
to meet him and LIKE i don't.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Know their conversation is very. Brief, yeah she doesn't like
linger and be.

Speaker 4 (47:57):
Weird and, importantly she isn't, like, HEY i saw you
in a. PICTURE i just had to meet. You i'm
like so into. You she once she senses that there
is some sort of mutual, attraction just like by the,
WAY i just want you to KNOW i orchestrated this
and she says it so she says THAT i think

(48:17):
at the perfect time to say, it, ye not when
it feels like pressure almost to then follow through the
day and not Like Almond vane or, whatever you, know.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Which she also addresses during that first. Date she's, LIKE
i want to like get this off my chest BECAUSE
i don't want to have any weird like me withholding
information from you for too. Long here it IS i
like her so, much and he is fine with. It
he doesn't give a single. Shit he's, like he's actually,
flattered it seems. Yeah and then he opens up and

(48:52):
tells her about something that he seems to be humiliated,
by but this whole pudding. Thing but Then lena brings
up the hammer story from his, childhood which prompts him
to go into the bathroom and completely trash, it and
he's kicked out of the. Restaurant but he And lena
leave together and they drive. Around they end up at her.

(49:13):
Place but then when he, leaves he's very awkward and
there's not a real kiss or anything like, that and
he says and bye.

Speaker 4 (49:21):
Bye oh my, god this is bye bye bye bye and.
Bye but then he goes. Back he, like and this
is one of the most beautiful scenes on. Film he
leaves the building and as he's, leaving the front desk is,
like are you? Buried and this is like it's kind of,
scary right because.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Because he's afraid someone's hunting.

Speaker 4 (49:44):
Him, yeah, yeah and he's like yeah and, Gradsend she's,
LIKE i wish that you'd kissed. Me and then he
like starts like rotting back to her. Apartment it seems
like he gets a lot to get. There, yes he
gets a. Lot he was going down this fall down
that all and bad and badit bam and the score

(50:05):
is getting bigger and bigger and. Bigger and then he
finally finds her in. Bam they kid said it's so.
Beautiful mm, hmmm mm.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Hmmm and then they agreed to see each other when
she gets back from a trip To hawaii that she had,
mentioned and he, said oh, maybe Y'all i'm going To hawaii,
too which is a.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Lie but that's also WHAT i really appreciated about their
date in a way that like clearly sets up this
is What barry needs to like overcome to be able
to have a relationship with, her is? RIGHT i think
it's right Before lena is, like, OKAY i have to come,
clean LIKE i had a crush on, you and that's
WHY i brought out my car off blah blah, blah

(50:45):
because she's very honest AND i think, grace like you
were saying, earlier like she knows. Herself and what precedes
that is very like telling this the series of white,
lies so That lena doesn't quote unquote think he's weird
where you, know and and then she's very, honest and
then and then he's able to like slowly start to open.

(51:07):
Up BUT i also could sort of connect to like
he tells weird lies sometimes, nervously which is especially WHEN
i was like younger.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
And super super.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
INSECURE i do that all the time just to feel
like you could engage with other people to just seem
like you get it or whatever as a defense. Mechanism
AND i don't, know there's there's some barrier in all of.
Us AND i love. That like when he it's just
like because he doesn't really feel safe to fully be
himself with. Anybody and also it's, like especially for someone

(51:40):
who doesn't feel safe being themselves with a lot of,
people what happens With georgia is his worst, nightmare where
it's like he's not even fully telling her the, truth
but he's trying to have an authentic conversation and then
it feels like he's punished.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
For, it, which, yeah for, sure.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
He does lie to. Her he, does, yeah having a, girlfriend,
yeah which IS i don't think wrong, necessarily you.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
Know he's just, like there's like a mutual agreement of.
Fantasy it's a.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
Fantasy it's a mutual. Fantasy, yeah but she tries to
use it Against he's, Like i'm gonna call your, girlfriend you, know,
yeah she'll pick up and he's, LIKE i had a
girlfriend a, wife and he's, LIKE i, don't, YEAH i, KNOW.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I have no love in.

Speaker 3 (52:25):
Mind this is this is getting forward a little. Bit
but later when he's on the payphone and he's, like,
wait do you have a? Boyfriend have you been? Married
she's like, no when was the last time you had a?
Girlfriend he's, like so have you been?

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Married like he just question and then she's like we
should meet up and talk about, this and he's, like
so where are you. From i'm still on the. Phone
he's just.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
Excited like that's HOW i feel about stuff, too when
like WHEN i get open with somethe OR I i
feel like it's it's Very i'm not into it Or
i'm so into, it AND i want to know that
it'll be forever and, okay which is not, healthy but
is THAT i really.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
It's human in this movie.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Anyway so they have this nice date and they finally
kiss and they part, ways and as he's returning, home
he is abducted by the guys Who georgia And dean
sent and they make him take five hundred dollars out
of AN. Atm one guy punches. Him he starts saying
ow aw aw before he's even. PUNCHED i love. That

(53:32):
great details that happened to my brother. Once, oh and
then he like sprints away and he's like running around
the neighborhood and perhaps to. Flee he decides to go To,
hawaii but he needs More Frequent flyer miles, first so
he And lance go to the grocery store and buy
a bunch more.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
PUDDING i would like to say one thing really, quickly
would in that like a series of shots of him
running around The San Fernando valley after the. Abduction. Yeah
people ask me WHY i Love Los, angeles AND i,
say Because Los angeles is unique in any other big
City i've lived, in which is that it has a

(54:14):
real sense of. MYSTERY i don't feel Like New york has.
THAT i don't feel Like chicago has. It Los angeles
really feels like it's constantly changing and there's always places
That i've not uncovered and h and that aura of
MYSTERY i think is so on display on film in
this in this, movie both in the scene when the

(54:34):
harmonium is dropped off and making those warehouse districts look,
beautiful and then When barry's just driving around and running,
around it just is like Any it's SO i don't,
KNOW i THINK i think this this movie really shows
WHY i love la you, know because it captures that
vibe AND i.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Mean, like, yeah he's uniquely good at The king of
The valley. HIMSELF i really liked HOW i think we
talked about it early in the, episode but like how
carefully the like dreamlike quality of this movie because basically
everything that we're shown does, Happen but there are several
points in the movie where you're like that can't have,
happened but it always, oh it's, LIKE i, mean we'll

(55:15):
get there in a, second but at the moment with
the like the guy in the back of the car and,
all and you're, like that can't be. True and then
we cut to the hospital and you're, like, oh, no
that was.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
True but and then something we haven't hit, on which
is present throughout this, film or the animated interstitials THAT
i think we're actually done at Cal, arts and these
animated interstitials that are you, know some could call them.
Simplistic it's like colors and lines and stuff that doesn't,
happen but it does in the same. Way it's, like

(55:47):
here's Something i'm seeing on, film what does that mean is?
Happening it is the same like it's like the bah da.
Da so it's LIKE i think those you, know stitials
help the dreamlike quality of all of. It, sure because it's,
like how can a color? Happen is a Color i'm

(56:09):
just seen on screen? Reel is this an? Event it's
being presented to me as this in the same way
as all this other. Stuff, yeah you, know like it's
a part of the same. Thread so, yeah a phantom.
Thread the phantom. Thread.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Wow, again the truck that just like tumbles down the
street toward the beginning of the, movie And i'm, like
that's gonna pay off in some way or we're gonna
learn something about.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
It it's such a good tone setter, though just like
things are just gonna.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Happen yeah for. Sure.

Speaker 4 (56:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
Okay so he And lance have gone to the grocery
store to buy more, pudding But barry learns that the
miles he's accumulated can't be redeemed for six to eight,
weeks so he freaks out a little.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Bit he fully freaks, out this is this is his
fucking his, loss fucking, dombas fuck bullshit, screenwriting nothing. Matters
and again it's.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
A great, like uh fuck you to how those moments
usually happen where it's it's, LIKE i feel like it
often is something really small that feels. Gigantic and then
he remembers he could just buy a you can just,
GOD i love.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Him, yeah so he decides to go a NOTE i
MADE i was, like he doesn't know which Island lena is,
on but he seems to pick the right island because
they meet up pretty. Easily but, anyway is that did
you think about? THAT i did think about. That, yeah
maybe that's just The bechdel cast lens or. Something but,

(57:46):
anyway so he. Go he arrives In, hawaii and he
gets the name Of lena's hotel from his Sister, elizabeth
in a phone call where he's having another, outburst but
he meets up With. Lena they have a romantic night
together and it seems like they really really like each.
Other Then barry calls the phone sex hotline and leaves

(58:09):
a message telling them that he expects them to return his.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
Money, yes the confidence given By New love And fucking.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Has, Yeah New love And Fucking baby it has.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
Cust him to possibly self sabotage yet.

Speaker 2 (58:23):
Again but now he's advocating for. Himself yes he, is
he is in a way that he couldn't. Before but
it's hard not to be scared for him in that.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Moment you're like.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
True and when they're, fucking when they're in the, hotel
he has this like quote THAT i want to say
perfectly Because i'm not the kind of person that can
remember this whole thing all at. Once but it's, like,
uh like they've just fucked and, stuff and he's, like

(58:54):
HiT's i can't say?

Speaker 5 (58:55):
It is?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
It when she says LIKE i want to chew on your,
CHEEK i want.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
To eat him up with The he's, LIKE i want
to punch you on the ball your fucking eyes. OUT
i don't want to eat you fucking. UP i want to,
like it's just like fucking.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
And they're like escalating. It, yeah they're.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Escalating and It's AND i actually have unexclusive for The Vechdel,
cast which is that my Friend Alex blum is doing
this thing Called hotlines where she writes quotes from movies
on hot. Dogs and she asked me for my favorit
quote from a, movie AND i gave her this long
one BECAUSE i thought it would be, funny and and

(59:29):
so she POSTED i take a screenshot of. IT i
posted on my. STORY i take. HER i was demonetized
From instagram for two weeks because they said that that
quote on a hot dog and mustard was inciting. Violence
oh my. God AND i know no one like reported.
It it was not something like idiot trying to troll,
me because it was weeks later like they're like net

(59:51):
or whatever just like picked it.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
Up, wow that could have really hurt. Someone that they
really could have hurt. Someone, God, well thank you for
the hot dog.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
Exclusive Hot Dog. Succy check Out Alex bloom On instagram
for the Series. Hotlines that's.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Awesome, YEAH i mean it. Is it's very like cutesy pillow,
talk but it's also extremely.

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Violent they're, intense they're matching each other's.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
Freak it's them recognizing this thing in each, other this
anger that maybe she's able to love because she has it,
too and that there's speeds so tender to each other
when they could rip each other.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
APART i think, THIS i GUESS i just, LIKE i
don't feel LIKE i know enough about her to be
sure of certain reactions on leaning this, PART.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
I tend to agree with. That, yeah that's kind of
one of my big criticisms of the.

Speaker 4 (01:00:44):
Movie there is something, though that she says THAT i
can't remember, verbatim but it's something, LIKE i swear she
says something LIKE i saw, you AND i knew LIKE
i KNEW i had to see you because and later she's,
LIKE i just could tell that we had there's some
sort of cod LIKE i see a similarity because of

(01:01:06):
how she talks about that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
She recognizes something in. HIM i think that that makes
a lot of. Sense.

Speaker 5 (01:01:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Yeah and also it's, like SO i feel like so
much Of, lena you, know not to like Discredit Paul Thomas,
anderty but so much of WHAT i feel like we
know about her is In Emily watson's performance versus like
what's really on the, page because she does like the
way that she reacts To, BARRY i feel like tells
us more about her than she says or we're.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
Told, Right, yeah in any, case they've had a, sexy
nice time. Together and Then barry And lena head back
to la together and when they're pulling into his, place
a truck slims into his. Car it's the minions who
are After, barry but he beats them and smashes the

(01:01:55):
truck up a little, bit and then he Takes lena
to a hospital to have her minor head injury.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
Treated it's a cool fight scene.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Too, YEAH i was like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Pretty impressed With Adam sandler's.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
Choreography he grabs the this tire iron truck and just like,
yeah like he doesn't kill, anyone, no, no.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
No and it's, LIKE, I i'm curious what you both
think about. THIS i thought that that, was, like really
when he does finally get to wail on a fucking
evil guy or, whatever, LIKE i found it really really
satisfying because it's the first time that we're able to
see him direct this anchor at a worthy target and
not just like a wall or or you, know like

(01:02:47):
it and he doesn't need to hide. IT i know
that it's not the. Like it doesn't you, know it's
not the end game of. Anything but it was just
nice to See barry get to just like tire iron
someone in the face WHO i was, like you, know
he's earned, that he's earned. That he keeps a lot. In,
yes A, barry but.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
He's not secretly a serial killer or, something because he
could have killed them all and he does.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
It, Yeah, no it's not kill them, all of. Course.

Speaker 4 (01:03:15):
No have you guys read the like there's like a
punch Shrunk superman theory That arry get Is. Superman i'm,
Like i'm not, kiddy LIKE i disagree with, it AND
i think IT'S i HONESTLY i SHOULD i honestly think
that this theory is evidence of a deep rot and

(01:03:36):
even PEOPLE i, Love but it's out.

Speaker 5 (01:03:39):
THERE i.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
Didn't i'm, like of, COURSE i feel like there was
like a very specific moment in like the mid twenty
tens where just theories like this ran, rampant and to what?
End Let barry be a normal. Guy that's the that's
the beauty of.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Him, Yes, Okay so while she's in the, Hospital barry
calls the phone sex hotline again and he's. Irate he's
screaming At. Georgia then he gets connected To dean and
he's screaming at him and they're threatening each. Other and
Then barry figures out Where dean And georgia, are so

(01:04:15):
he like drops everything and just goes straight To utah
to confront. Them barry And dean get in each other's
faces And barry, SAYS i have love in my life,
now and it makes me stronger than you can, Imagine
so put an end to this, now Or i'll beat
the hell out of. You And dean is, like all,

(01:04:35):
right it's. Over So barry goes back To La he
grabs his little. Piano he takes it To lena's, apartment
not sure, why but he apologizes to her for leaving
her at the, hospital and he tells the whole story
of how he called a phone sex line and those

(01:04:56):
people started harassing. Him but he's taking care of, it
and if she gives him six to eight weeks to
prove that he's an okay, guy then he can redeem
the airline miles from the pudding and go with her
wherever she needs to. Go and she does, say, like
you left me at the hospital and that wasn't, cool

(01:05:16):
and he's, LIKE i, KNOW i won't do it, again
and then they kiss and make up the. End, Yay
so let's take another quick break and we'll come back
to further discuss.

Speaker 5 (01:05:37):
And we're.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Back where do we want to? START i. DON'T i
mean we've covered a.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
LOT i talked about a.

Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
Lot i've covered quite a. Lot but, YEAH i guess one,
thing let's talk about Uh lena a little bit more
because we've talked a lot About. Barry there's still more
to be said About. Barry but, sure, YEAH i really like.
HER i think THAT i wish that we do a
little bit more more about. Her but it's tricky because
this story is so firmly centered On barry versus the.

(01:06:09):
Couple LIKE i don't, know it's a story Where barry
falls in, love BUT i don't think it's necessarily like
a story about that because all of that sort of.
Happens that's not the exact.

Speaker 4 (01:06:20):
Half, yeah it's about him doing the work mama's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
Yeah, yeah like getting to a place where he can
BE i really like my my like dorky head cannon
for the, end of this movie is now that he
is like comfortable enough and can truly be himself with
someone unlike his like dufust brother in. Law lena's the
kind of person who could help him find a, therapist
who could help him do all of these, things and

(01:06:47):
he would be comfortable enough to like actually ask for
that With and it just seems like one of those
rare relationships that puts you on a path, towards like
closer to who you want to. Be AND i love
that for, Them BUT i guess what is a little
more elusive to me IS I With, lena we learn
a bunch of stuff about her close to the end

(01:07:09):
of the movie is that she's been divorced, Before she's,
had you, know a number of, relationships WHICH i think
you can feel in her character based on like she's,
pretty like she's she's adorable on the dates and she
but you can tell like she knows what she's, doing
she has more, experience, yeah and like she knows what
she's looking for and she's pretty frank about. That AND

(01:07:30):
i Think barry kind of needs.

Speaker 4 (01:07:31):
THAT i don't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
KNOW i JUST i feel like we learn a few
facts about, her BUT i don't know because we never
like have moments with just. Her it's always her in
the context of her being With. Barry AND i know
that's how, like that's a lot of stories work as
far as like whose perspective is this story told? From
but it kind of happens at the expense of we

(01:07:53):
don't get to know her nearly as.

Speaker 4 (01:07:55):
Well so AND i don't give a Sh.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
And that's why you're here.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Today he's just fucking, like what's to.

Speaker 4 (01:08:06):
DO i think it's a good, movie AND i THINK i,
Mean i'm not saying it's.

Speaker 3 (01:08:09):
Not we're not saying it's a bad. Movie we're just
saying we don't know very much about.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
It we're just doing our. Podcast.

Speaker 4 (01:08:14):
Grace, yeah that's. True that's. True, See i'd like to
SAY i have a message for other upcoming guests Of
The Bechdel, cast which IS i just want to remind
you guys that you don't have to let the synopsis
get out. Quick you have to like wait to, say
have the pass The Bechdel test or. Anything you, know

(01:08:37):
you are playing a, Game.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Jigsaw, Vibes let's play a.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Game every episode Of The Bechdel cast is a game
that can be, won and it's you Versus jamie And,
caatelet or or if you're, smart you'll silo one of
them off and. Attack BUT i just if any possible

(01:09:07):
Upcoming Bechdel cast members are returning guests or, whatever you can.
Win you just have to put in the.

Speaker 3 (01:09:14):
Work it's, true, Okay and it took years for you
to get to this place where you can really demolish
us in this.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Way it took Four Santa claus.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
EPISODES i, MEAN I i JUST i know all your
moves And i'm. Ready i'm ready for our own.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Game it's.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
True it's.

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
True, well this is the final episode of The Bechdel. Cast, Everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Grace was the final boss the whole, time AND i
what so?

Speaker 4 (01:09:50):
Game oh my.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Gosh well let me let's talk about things that we
did like, then shall. WE i, MEAN i think this
movie does a really good job of showing a character
with certainly, anxiety possibly also. Depression nothing's ever explicitly, stated
but we can glean from his behavior and what he

(01:10:14):
says about how he feels his, loneliness AND i think
that's presented with an authenticity that we don't often see
in regards to the portrayal of mental. Illness and anxiety
and things in. Cinema SO i liked how that was.
HANDLED i was ready to come down harder On barry

(01:10:35):
Pre grace your history with the, movie BECAUSE i was
gonna say something, LIKE i think it's, LIKE i appreciate
the portrayal of mental illness in his, character but he
also has a really difficult time regulating his, emotions and
that often manifests in these violent outbursts where he's trashing
a room or breaking glass or punching a wall or,

(01:10:57):
whatever or screaming at his sister and threat to kill,
her for, Example and his mental illness doesn't obviously doesn't
excuse those. Things AND i was gonna be, Like, okay,
well this guy needs to learn to regulate his emotions
a little bit, better the way that many men and
people of all genders could stand to learn to regulate their.

(01:11:18):
Emotions but you, know AND i DON'T i still feel
that about his. Character but then you also have to
consider that he was like pretty relentlessly bullied by his
sisters his entire. Childhood we can, presume.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
Right that's the only, like the only thing we really
see even with like the one, sister we do get
to know WHO i think is fascinating in her own,
right although we don't know much about, her it's mostly
in the, performance but that, like even when she's trying
to do something quote unquote nice for him by introducing, him, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
Setting him up with, someone.

Speaker 3 (01:11:55):
But even in those, interactions she can't help but bully.
Him WHERE i think it was like when she's introducing
him To lena again and she's, like, so are you
coming with us or? Not are you coming with us or?
Not what the fuck is? That why are you put?

Speaker 4 (01:12:09):
It?

Speaker 3 (01:12:11):
Right like where she's still like it just seems like
it's so baked into their family dynamic to pile On
barry and under any and all, circumstances and it doesn't,
right it doesn't excuse his. Behavior but it's LIKE i
do feel like it at very least we are given
the context for like this isn't just like AN Snl
Adam sandler character of like this is what he. Does

(01:12:32):
he's the angry, Guy like we're given context for that. Anger.
Right but, yeah but but BUT i see what you're
saying too.

Speaker 4 (01:12:39):
WELL i think it's interesting you both use the term,
Excuse like does it excuse there's mental? Illness excuse his.
Behavior and the OLDER i get and the MORE i
deal with my own mental, health the mental serious mental

(01:13:01):
illness of family, members seeing the mental health issues of
like unhoused PEOPLE i know and in recovering and. STUFF
i wonder if this film could be a moment of
like learning, that like it might not be useful to
ask like is this? Behave is there an excuse for this?

(01:13:25):
Behavior or like looking at something through the realm of
excuse or non. Excuse it's, like what does attaching a
moral worth to an action and then weighing it against
someone's privilege and versus their mental health issues and stuff like?

(01:13:46):
That what does that? Do as much as is that
like necessarily a productive way to look at mental? Illness
AND i would suggest that that may maybe it's. Not
you know, what we can look at that when we See,
barry we can see that he is a person that
has the capacity to deal with these emotions in different,

(01:14:12):
ways you, Know but how he has dealt with them
in certain moments is by acting out these, tantrums this.
Destruction and so what can people who care about him,
Do Like i'm talking about him like he's a, Person
BUT i, guess like just mental health in, General, LIKE
i think the choices when dealing in life with someone

(01:14:36):
who has a serious mental health problem are trying to
engage with them to get better or letting go of
that as something you haven't want to have anything to
do with their control, over you. Know, Yeah AND i think,
That LIKE i think the, FACT i, guess like What

(01:14:57):
i'm saying is the fact that we can understand this
poor behavior through the lens of his mental illness maybe
shows that there's folly in questioning whether or not there
is an, excuse like saying if it is morally good or,

(01:15:18):
Bad like just the fact that you can look at
through that, lens.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
You, KNOW i, AGREE i, MEAN i guess to, CLARIFY i,
mean at least WHEN i, say like what excuses the,
Behavior i'm trying to see it from the perspective of
who it's happening, to not who's perpetrating. It and so With,
BARRY i, MEAN i part of WHAT i like about
this movie is that you see someone who is struggling

(01:15:44):
with mental health right in an in between. Point we
don't you, know he doesn't arrive quote unquote at mental
health at the end of the, movie because that's not
a thing that. Happens we see a like phase of.
THIS i, guess, like, Yeah i'm thinking more of like
if you're in the shoes Of elizabeth and this is

(01:16:05):
your your brother lashing out at, you and you have
done something there has been, sustained like she's treated him
like shit for a long. Time but how do, you
as like two, people reach a place of peace in that?
Way AND i don't. KNOW i, mean and this is
again it's like one movie can't do all of. THIS

(01:16:27):
i guess. WHAT i JUST i wish that, WELL i
don't even. Know this isn't even a criticism of the.
MOVIE i GUESS i just we see a lot of
cause and effect in the way that he is the
recipient of all of, this this emotional abuse from his.
Family they are unable TO i you, know if we're

(01:16:50):
showing them, grace they are completely unable to help, him
even when he's, asking, well.

Speaker 4 (01:16:57):
They do not treat him like he's mentally or have
any recon like that's an important distinct. Ship they just.

Speaker 3 (01:17:03):
Say That's, berry which is a very family.

Speaker 5 (01:17:06):
Thing.

Speaker 4 (01:17:07):
Yeah and if he if he did not deal with
this mental illness and they were calling him gay and
a homo and, stuff he might just have, laughed, right you,
know maybe he might not, have but like the way
that they're saying, it if the soundtrack was at that,
moment you might not key into it as this like

(01:17:27):
stressful evil thing because they're, LIKE i, mean it's not
cool to like call your brother a homo as a derogatory.
Thing BUT i could certainly see a, family especially in
the early two, thousands you fucking homo and everyone you, know, like,
well it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Even just like WITH i don't, know LIKE i saw
my family recently and they they've like said the same
thing about me that is hurtful for my whole, life
but it is just an element of the family and
and the same goes for other family members in other,
directions where it's like that's like the part of the

(01:18:03):
fucked up part of being with a, family where it's
just you can normalize it in a family dynamic that
feels so impossible to replicate in other places where it's
just they they're not even thinking about like it's like
they've been doing this for so, long they're not even
thinking about why their brother acts the way he, does, like, which, yeah,

(01:18:28):
WELL i.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Think the scene Where barry pulls aside his brother in
law and Has that conversation is really interesting because it
shows That barry knows something is amiss with his mental,
health he doesn't really quite have the.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
Words for, it and he also just doesn't like how he.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
Feels he doesn't like how he, feels and he is
actively seeking help in a way that he clearly feels uncomfortable.
Doing but he realizes like things have maybe hit critical.
Mass he just smashed a bunch of windows and then
was berated for, it so he's just, like something needs to.

(01:19:08):
CHANGE i clearly need. HELP i was amused by the
line where the brother in law, says, like what's what's the,
matter what's? Wrong And barry, SAYS i don't know if
anything is wrong BECAUSE i don't know how other people.

Speaker 4 (01:19:24):
Are that's such a perfect lie and it kind.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
Of breaks your heart because he clearly has so hard
of a time connecting with other people and really getting
to know who other people are and how they. Are but,
anyway he's trying to seek help and he knows the
type of help he, needs and his brother in law
is not dismissing, him but he also Betrays berry's, trust

(01:19:51):
And barry says like don't tell my. SISTERS i don't
want them to. Know i'm embarrassed about, This LIKE i
feel LIKE i don't have ANYONE i can talk to about.
This and a few scenes, Later, elizabeth WHO i guess
is this brother in, law is like they're, partnered and she's,
like what was this that you were Telling walter or
whatever to get you a? Shrink and what's this crying

(01:20:12):
problem that you? Have and she's sneering and like being
very judgy about. It and so he's trying to seek,
help and it's like a just the stigma of mental,
health especially at this time in two thousand and two
when this movie comes, Out like he's willing to seek, help,
yeah and the society around him is not being receptive to.

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
It SO i think it's interesting too that like he
never goes to his sisters because he knows it's a
worthless thing to, Do, like you, know he says he's
got AND i think there is some truth that he
says he's going to his brother in law so he
can get that great dentist. Joke AND i celebrate, that
but it's also like so telling that he has seven
siblings and he is comfortable going to zero of, them

(01:20:56):
and in fact is constantly asking that people don't tell
them what he's doing because he clearly like lives in
this state of anxiety that he's going to be mocked for,
whatever because that's what their dynamic. Is we don't really
know why that, is but like we don't really have to.
Either it is what it. IS i do, THINK i,

(01:21:19):
mean it would be impossible to get to know all
these all seven of these. SISTERS i don't. Know, again
it's like not a, criticism it's WHERE i think that
Mariy Lynn riska's, character like Her, elizabeth comes across so
much in her reactions versus what she actually says and,
does BECAUSE i feel like she's played as someone who

(01:21:41):
is also lonely, herself because you, know if you were doing,
great you wouldn't be bullying your brother while introducing him to.
Someone and there's that great moment towards the, END i,
mean it's great for all three of, them where after you,
Know barry's In hawaii and And lena is the first

(01:22:01):
person to ever actually respect his request to not tell his,
sisters which is another like she sees, him she gets,
him and she kind of pokes fun At barry as
a joke between the two of, them and Then elizabeth is, like,
well you can't say my brother is. WEIRD i can,
see which is the most sibling thing you could possibly.

(01:22:23):
Say and, again it just like gives us a little
bit of insight into what this family is. Like but
outside of, THAT i, mean we mostly, know you, know
because this story is the story of this chunk of
time In barry's, life we really only know whose sisters
are in relation to, him AND i think that's just

(01:22:44):
because of how the story is. Written BUT i do
still wish. THAT i do think that there was like
a little more room to know a little more About
lena in the scope of this. Story but, yeah, yeah But.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Paul Thomas anderson didn't want this movie to be longer
than ninety, minutes, right AND i celebrate, that you, Know,
Yeah and that's.

Speaker 4 (01:23:04):
Beautiful is this this.

Speaker 3 (01:23:07):
Has to be his shortest, movie, right because how long Was.
MAGNOLIA i do think it's funny that three hours and eight. Minutes,
Yeah so he was, Like, okay, OKAY i get, IT
i need to.

Speaker 2 (01:23:18):
Calm, Down let's do a little.

Speaker 4 (01:23:19):
One.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Yeah it happens kind of at the expense of, us
not knowing more About, Lena BUT i don't hate their
relationship the WAY i usually hate relationships like hetero romantic
relationships in movies where grace to your point of like
she took her, shot it worked. OUT i also like
that you see a woman asking a man for a

(01:23:41):
first date Because elizabeth brought her to his Like plunger
warehouse to be, like come to breakfast with, us and
that doesn't pan, out and so she's, like you know,
What i'm just gonna, Ask LIKE i already know him
a little, bit now we're, acquainted let, me you, know
shoot this. Shot and she's, Like i'm going to go
out for some food, tomorrow do you want to?

Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
COME i mean she she kind of nudges this relationship
forward in a way that again like it seems Like
barry kind of needs with where he's, at but it's never.
Aggressive and also the fact that, like, yeah there's a,
phrase she drops the hint, repeatedly like even though it's
based off of like a Random Barry white lie of, like,

(01:24:23):
Oh i'm going To hawaii For plunger. Work you're like,
sure WHICH i think she kind of is, like oh,
well BUT i like that, again like the invitation To
hawaii is. Explicit she's, like, well if you're there and
you want to hang, OUT i would love to see.
You and she says that more than once and, like,
YEAH i don't. Know even though it's like awkward and

(01:24:45):
they're both very work to, progress there are adults about,
it and she says.

Speaker 4 (01:24:50):
Very importantly after they fucking shit on the bed in that,
order she's, like you've got me out of my. Room
you came and you got me out of my. Room
would just like to me like also kind of a
sign that they're of the same, feather you, know like, Introverted,
yeah a, feather you, know like it's. Beautiful it, is

(01:25:15):
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:25:15):
Nice and, again and we already touched on this, too
but after he literally abandons her at the hospital after
this car, accident.

Speaker 3 (01:25:24):
Which isn't, great but ALSO i feel, like because we're
so in his head at that, point it honestly didn't
even register with me at. FIRST i was, like, yeah
he's got he's got unfinished, business he's got to finish.
This it did register with me WHERE i was, like, wait,
yeah did he just leave her? There and then she,
Asks she's, like where's?

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
That where's the?

Speaker 3 (01:25:41):
Guy came, with and the nurses, like.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
HMMM i don't, KNOW i, okay, yeah and she establishes
a boundary and she, says you can't do things like
that if we're gonna be together or see each. Other
and he seems to recognize, that and he seems determined
not only to redeemed the airline miles from the, pudding
but to redeem.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
Himself and it just feels very clear that he will
BECAUSE i, mean it's also like there's of all of
the different complicated aspects Of barry's. CHARACTER i feel like
he's he's also just like looking to be respected by,
someone where he's like so many people in his. LIFE i,

(01:26:23):
mean he sort of has a friend In, lance but
that is a very LIKE i, Mean Louis gospond's, amazing
And Louis gusbond is very concerned about. Him he's, like
please go on a, vacation WHICH i thought was very,
funny but that, like, yeah this is like a relationship
where he could feel respected, too where it's like it's
just clear that he doesn't have that in other areas

(01:26:45):
of his, life does. ANYONE i don't really have anything
to say About Dean. Trumbull he shows up late in the.
Movie he's there and you're, like and that Was Dean.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
Trumbull just That Philip Seymour hoffman can be in a
movie for five minutes or less and still just take it.

Speaker 4 (01:27:04):
Crushing he is okay the Most so like the thing
About Dean troumble the Mattress, man first of, all very
important to. Know they made like sketches for this movie,
too With Philip seymour often that you can find.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
Online, really that's so. Fun that makes.

Speaker 4 (01:27:22):
Sense, yeah there's like two three of, them and they're
like little like, ads and one of them he falls
like fifty feet onto a mattress IF i remember. Correct
AND i do think like he is kind of similar
To he's like similar and opposite To. Berry you, know

(01:27:44):
this is. Supermanny he is kind of like Like Barry's
lexolutor and that he's Like barry has this like fated
love and romance in his life and that is like
almost supernaturally fairy tale like and And Dean trumbll so.
Opposite like he he's paid women to be around, him you,

(01:28:09):
know and he's paying men to like do stuff for
him that a friend MIGHT i, mean not that a
friend would go beat. It, well but you, know he
seems very. Lonely he has his own. Warehouse they both
have a. Warehouse they both have these, businesses but they're
like it's like a very different way That barry could
have popped up turned.

Speaker 3 (01:28:28):
Out it's a different way To, yeah it's like a
it's a more assertive person's version of keeping control in
like this state of loneliness that he's. IN i didn't
know about the. Sketches it's so. Funny, well it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:43):
Took me forever to realize That barry is the owner
of this plunger, business that he's not an, employee that
this is his. Business, yeah he owns.

Speaker 4 (01:28:52):
It it's his, business and he's proud of.

Speaker 2 (01:28:53):
It because he doesn't operate it in such a way
where he's the boss. Man and in, fact when the
forklift is, crashing like all the products are spilling and
breaking stuff like, that he's just, like, hi you, Guys,
okay anyway back to the WOMAN i have a crush, on.

Speaker 3 (01:29:13):
Which is really what most bosses, do even good Bosses i've,
had just are, like, hey you good in. HERE i
gotta go, bye like, cool just make sure the check's
clear and leave me. Alone that's the ideal. Boss.

Speaker 2 (01:29:29):
Right one of the THINGS i found fascinating About dean
and his minions is that they keep Shaming barry for
quote unquote being a pervert and acting like he deserves
to be blackmailed and threatened and beaten up because he
had the audacity to call a phone sex. Hotline and it's,

(01:29:50):
like you're the one running the phone sex hot, line
so why are you shaming your own clientele for engaging
with sex? Workers which feels bizarre, now but it was
two thousand and, two so.

Speaker 3 (01:30:02):
WELL i also wrote down BECAUSE i had the same
THOUGHT i wrote, Down is this a utah?

Speaker 2 (01:30:06):
THING i don't.

Speaker 4 (01:30:07):
KNOW i don't. KNOW i think it was simply a
way for them to get money.

Speaker 3 (01:30:13):
Out of, Him, right you should shame him.

Speaker 4 (01:30:15):
More and also the perversion is that he's ashamed of
wanting to fuck a lady almost like these are guys
that seemingly fuck like and openly are misogynistic and, Stuff
AND i think what they if there's any real anger
there is that they think he thinks he's better than,

(01:30:36):
them right or, something you. Know, yeah it's like they're,
like we're all getting. Gash why are you try to
act what you don't want. Gash that's WHAT i want to.
Say was a line that was cut out of the.
Script that is WHY i put money on. It PAUL
i bettied twenty dollars that that was in the. Script and,

(01:30:58):
please he's a.

Speaker 3 (01:30:59):
Page members so he'll.

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
Hear and this isn't even A patreon.

Speaker 4 (01:31:03):
EPISODE I i almost got to Meet Paul Thomas anderson,
recently kind Of oh, wow because a friend of mine
was briefly dating a friend of his but then she
stopped dating.

Speaker 2 (01:31:15):
Him oh, Wow so WHAT i?

Speaker 4 (01:31:17):
SAY i almost got to do. THAT i, mean if
my head it was gonna happen for a.

Speaker 2 (01:31:21):
Second but, well just to take a little signed bar he,
again he was, like, Wow magnolia was so. Long MAYBE
i shouldn't do that again for my next. Movie so
he was determined to make it around ninety, minutes not
to really exceed. That he also specifically wrote The barry
character With Adam sandler in, mind Because Paul Thomas anderson

(01:31:45):
Loved Adam sandler and his, movies Particularly Big, daddy and
then he had seen different performances of his in various sketch,
shows and he's, like he has to be In punch Drunk.
Love Joanne seller was quote unquote be fuddled That Paul
Thomas anderson wanted to Cast Adam sandler and he had

(01:32:09):
to convince her That sandler was the right person for the.
Job and then WHILE pta was Filming, magnolia he Calls
Adam sandler and he's, Like i'm writing this movie for.
You And Adam sandler was, like that's. NICE i don't
really know who you, are but. God and Then Adam

(01:32:29):
sandler Watched magnolia after it came, out and then he
felt quote unquote fucking terrified and was very intimidated By
PTA's like directorial. Prowess And Adam sandler was, LIKE i
don't know IF i can do.

Speaker 3 (01:32:44):
This it's like you can do, it kinga so and he,
can and he CAN i do kind of like BECAUSE
i wasn't An Adam sandler kid growing, UP i was
kept From Adam sandler outside Of Big daddy for some.

Speaker 4 (01:32:58):
Reason but samil introduction To Adam Sandler Big daddy was
the first ONE i was able to. Watch BUT i
got to Watch Adam sandler still kind of, young but
it felt like it had been a million. Years, Yeah
LIKE i got to watch my First Adam sandler movie
besides part Of Big daddy On Comedy central Was Billy

(01:33:18):
madison AND i got to watch that WHEN i was
like ten or, eleven but it felt like all my
friends had gotten to see all of. Them so even
THOUGH i GUESS i was still young at the, TIME
i was Like jesus finally spent billion.

Speaker 3 (01:33:33):
Years and for more On Adam sandler as a comedic
persona versus this particular, movie you can go. To we
recently Covered Eight Crazy, nights where we started talking about
his career more.

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
Busy well that's just not.

Speaker 3 (01:33:50):
True well that's just not. True let's be, serious.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
Pedally.

Speaker 4 (01:33:55):
False the other thing About Crazy, nights AND i think
this is very, important the Little man gets frozen at
a big block of.

Speaker 2 (01:34:03):
Pool, yes.

Speaker 5 (01:34:06):
We, do we do.

Speaker 3 (01:34:07):
Good we do talk about that in.

Speaker 2 (01:34:09):
Depth we also talk ABOUT i think worth Mentioning Adam Sandler's,
zionism and they go into depth on The Eight Crazy nights.
Episode so if you want to hear, more refer back
to that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
Episode, yeah that's What that's WHAT i was getting at
is we have A fullir.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Discussion in any, case any other thoughts On Punch Drunk.

Speaker 4 (01:34:30):
LOVE i Have there's one thing that we didn't touch,
on which is the moment of confrontation when he rips
the phone headset off and he's got the phone the
telephone like handset or whatever with him when he gets
To utah and he's, Like i've got a love in

(01:34:54):
my life and that makes me strong and, say that's,
that you, Know AND i, think then that is really
living up the desire that a part of your life
can be. Over THAT i think is such a desire
of someone dealing with mental illness that the period of
my life in WHICH i am bipolar can be, done you.

(01:35:16):
Know SO i think it's. Interesting the wish fulfillment, THERE
i think is is something that also really got, me
you know because when we're talking about like like like like,
well if their lives were to continue on after this, film,
YES i do think That lena could help him get

(01:35:38):
into therapy Actually audiadia out of it for the purpose
of this. Film in that moment he defeats it and
that's you, know that's all we, see you, Know AND
i think that's that offers like something like beautiful THAT
i haven't really seen in other movies, too like just
being done with.

Speaker 2 (01:35:52):
It hell, yeah AND i MEAN i was expecting more
of a violent confrontation in that scene in Between barry
and The Philip Seymour hoffman. Character but you can sense
That dean probably couldn't hold his own in a, fight
and that's why he sends his minions and he doesn't

(01:36:15):
actually want to fight him and engage in. Violence and
then he's just, Like, okay that's. That and then As
barry's walking, away he's, like, yeah you better, go you fucking.
Pervert and Then barry turns back around he's, LIKE i
fucking warned. You and then and Then dean goes that that's,
that and then he runs. Away so it's just like this,

(01:36:36):
guy he's a. COWARD i don't know what my point is,
exactly but so.

Speaker 4 (01:36:41):
It does pass The bechdel test so.

Speaker 3 (01:36:45):
WELL i think that there is, like genuinely this is
So barry's story that, like, SPIRITUALLY i don't think it,
does BUT i do think it. Might there might have
been like a technical thing where there's a few times
where like as if it The lena talk about their
jobs or, yeah going.

Speaker 2 (01:37:03):
To the restaurant for.

Speaker 4 (01:37:04):
Breakfast that's, true And Jerry egan is a woman.

Speaker 2 (01:37:09):
And people are saying he's Both superman and a.

Speaker 4 (01:37:12):
Woman, Well superman is a.

Speaker 3 (01:37:15):
Woman, well so many, breakings so many breaking.

Speaker 2 (01:37:19):
Started, well as far as our nipple scale, goes where
we rate the movie based on a scale of zero
to five, nipples examining it through an intersectional feminist, LENS
i don't know even a little, bit like.

Speaker 3 (01:37:34):
It's really, like DOESN'T i. Don't, YEAH i don't really.

Speaker 2 (01:37:37):
Know doesn't. Apply, yeah we have another movie. Recently i'm
going to give it five.

Speaker 4 (01:37:42):
Nipples, Okay i'm gonna give.

Speaker 2 (01:37:46):
It i'll give it five toilet plungers on the plunger.

Speaker 3 (01:37:51):
Scale Ok get, Yeah i'll give it five novelty toilet. Plungers.
Yeah i'm forgoing the nipple scale for this one because
it is so unique in so many.

Speaker 4 (01:37:58):
Ways it's a story that and sends. Gender let's go with.

Speaker 3 (01:38:02):
That and that's Why i'm giving it five. PLUNGERS i think.

Speaker 4 (01:38:06):
That's Why i'm giving. It i'm giving it five nipples
BECAUSE i do think that this, MOVIE i do think
it's in conversation with what it means to be a,
man and it presents something radically different and beautiful than
what very but himself believes he has to be and

(01:38:27):
what his sisters and this are forcing on, him and
he breaks from. That, yeah this is, true and then
he becomes gay and has a wife and he's a.
Woman they do something more than you. Haul they like
FedEx air cargo themselves around the.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
World they go To.

Speaker 3 (01:38:43):
Hawaii their second data is their SECOND datea is In hawaii.
THERE i DO i think you're, right like where the
sisters are mocking him because he's not meeting their threshold
for what masculinity looks. Like and how he finds happy
to is by just being who he, is and just.

Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
The way that society slash patriarchy does not permit men
to express or feel or engage with their, emotions and
especially if those emotions are things like sadness and loneliness and.
Insecurity and that's very clearly What barry's dealing. With and
he's trying to address his issues with mental, health and

(01:39:28):
no one is willing to help, him, really or at
least not the people in his. Family and it.

Speaker 3 (01:39:33):
Also feels like a good time capsule, too because it's,
like not only does no one help, him it seems
like no one knows, how which does feel very true
of the early two thousands where there were conversations around mental, health.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
But going to a quote unquote shrink AND i.

Speaker 3 (01:39:51):
Think it was considered like emasculating too yes for a
man to want like a.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Therapist, Definitely, grace thank you for joining.

Speaker 3 (01:39:59):
Us come back from, Megalais, OH i will come. Back
please don't MAKE i was, Like caitlin doesn't want to Do, Actually.

Speaker 2 (01:40:11):
Grace this might be how you like jettisoned me off
of the podcast BECAUSE i refuse to do a megas.
Episode so you've seen.

Speaker 4 (01:40:20):
It, yes in, yeah the whole, experience like with the
with the usher going up to the. Screen, no but
well then it doesn't really, count.

Speaker 3 (01:40:32):
So, yeah you didn't really see.

Speaker 4 (01:40:34):
It what do you dislike about? Me we don't have.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
Time but what we do have time for tell us
about where people can follow you on social? Media plug
what you want to, plum.

Speaker 3 (01:40:48):
Tell us That pat tell us. Everything.

Speaker 4 (01:40:50):
Well the movie is Called We Are, pat and it
is a it's a lot of, things but it's at it's,
core it's about How i'm a very scared. Person it is,
It but So We Are pat is a documentary that
just ME i tried back out That i'm in AND

(01:41:12):
i wrote sketches for that is like looking back at
the Character pat FROM snl and the widely derided Film It's,
pat And pat is this androgynous character that no one
can tell If pat is a man or a. Woman,
Notably pat is not non. Binary pat knows what Sex

(01:41:33):
pat is and Believes pat isn't interpreted as, such you,
know does not really recognize that people don't. Know so
it's looking back at that finding a lot of humor in,
it trying to, like certain people hate On pat a.
Lot you, Know i'm not one of those. PEOPLE i Love.

(01:41:56):
Pat it's a really good movie and it's AND i
think it Is it does something THAT i haven't really
seen another documentary, do which is have a comedian contend
with the consequences of their. Comedy And julia does it
in a way THAT'S i wouldn't say, apologetic but empathetic and.

(01:42:19):
Understanding and it has become a good friend of mine
throughout this like shooting, Process Julia Sweeney, rocks AND i
think it is such a GOOD i think you should
watch it once it gets. Sold it's gonna be a
frameline this Like Queer, festival AND i think it's gonna
be at some other places, too but hopefully it gets. Sold,

(01:42:41):
Also i've launched a sub. Stack It's Grace Chief Freud
No Grace Grace Chief, No It's Grace grace g as
in Go freud dot substack dot, com and it's called
Wrong galaxy And i'm posting original fiction on. There in
addition to, THAT i have a reading series called On
galaxy at stories every. Month and then Also i'm At

(01:43:05):
Grace Gee freud on x and you can find me On.
Instagram and those are only things to.

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
Plug thank you again for being. Here i'll Reconsider. Megalopolis
let me think about.

Speaker 4 (01:43:21):
It for a.

Speaker 3 (01:43:22):
While it's like we're gonna wait Till christmas. Time there's.

Speaker 4 (01:43:25):
Time, yes you should also watch The christmas.

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):
Special, YEAH i would highly recommend it If grace made.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
It, OH i thought it was LIKE i was. THERE
i thought it was like The megalopolis characters. DOING i
thought it was like A Star Wars christmas special kind
of thing. Basically, okay but but if you did, It
i'll watch.

Speaker 4 (01:43:46):
It And Alec robbins And Mike in put it on
and we made sketches for it and did a whole.
LOT i have a dear love for that, Film So
i'm going to give punch Drunk love five, Nipples, megelois four,
nipples and Eight Crazy nights three. Nipples, Wow, okay Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
Brave you can follow us On instagram At Bechdel. Cast
you can also subscribe to Our patreon Aka. Matreon it's
the best way to support the. Show it's five dollars
a month and you get two bonus episodes every month
about an amazingly brilliantly genius, theme as well as access

(01:44:30):
to the entire back catalog of, many many bonus. Episodes
so check that out at patreon dot com Slash Bechdel.

Speaker 3 (01:44:39):
Cast and with, that let's learn how to play exactly
three notes on the harmonium And i'll fall in love.

Speaker 2 (01:44:46):
And bye bye bye bye bye, bye and bye bye
bye bye and bye bye bye. Bye The Bechdel cast
is a production Of, iHeartMedia hosted By Caitlin derante And Jamie,
loftus produced By Sophie, lichtermann edited By. Molaboord our theme
song was composed By Mike kaplan with vocals By Katherine.

(01:45:07):
Voskresenski our logo in merch is designed By Jamie loftus
and a special thanks To Aristotle. Assevedo for more information
about the, podcast please visit Link Tree Slash bechtelcast

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

The Bechdel Cast News

Follow Us On

Hosts And Creators

Caitlin Durante

Jamie Loftus

Show Links

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Punch Drunk Love with Grace Freud