Real Women Have Curves (with new intro!) with Mala Muñoz

This week, we're re-releasing our episode on Real Women Have Curves with special guest Mala Muñoz -- with a new introduction that contains information and resources on how to support communities impacted by the recent escalation of ICE raids in LA and other areas.

Visit linktr.ee/bechdelcast to check out links to the various resources!

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they
have individualism? The patriarchy Zephyn Beast start changing with the
Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hello Bechdel Cast listeners, Jamie and Caitlin. Here we are
re releasing one of our favorite episodes this week that
we recorded what two years.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
Ago or so that sounds possible.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
About the classic Real Women Have Curves directed by Pittric
Shikurdo So, written by and based on the play by
Hosafina Lopez. So the reason we're doing this may be evident.
But if you are international or live in a cave,
this is a movie that is about East Los Angeles.

(00:53):
It's a movie about the immigrant community in Los Angeles
and in Los Angeles at the moment, there have been
all of these horrific media narratives claiming that there are
riots in the streets, when the riots are in fact
being perpetrated by Ice and by the National Guard and
by the LAPD. No matter what Mary Karen Bass says

(01:14):
at this podcast, we say, fuck mayor of Karen Bass.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Yes, and Karen is a Karen is a Karen is
a Karen.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
I mean, Los Angeles has always been a city of immigrants,
it has always been a city of unions, and I
think the dual threat has really caused the city to
come together in this amazing way. But there is still
so so so much going on across the country, but
particularly in LA is where this all sort of kicked
off by ICE. To be clear, around a week ago

(01:45):
from when we were recording this, ICE showed up at
a home depot in Paramount, California, which is another thing
that seems to be widely misunderstood how massive LA is
targeting specifically immigrants, which led to it impromptu protest, which
has led to protests across the country as ICE continues

(02:05):
to essentially occupy the city. So we thought it would
be a good moment to re release an episode that
is about the immigrant community in LA And.

Speaker 4 (02:19):
Yeah, this movie is about a family that could very
likely be torn apart by the types of raids that
are happening right now, and that, to be clear, have
been happening.

Speaker 5 (02:32):
Yes, this happens all the time.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
There is an escalation of it right now, but you know,
during the Biden and Obama administrations, lest we forget there
were raids like this happening.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
Absolutely, and you know, if you're a listener in the
US and you went to a No King's protest this
past weekend, good on you.

Speaker 5 (02:51):
But we also wanted to talk about, you know, something
we've talked about over.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
The years of if you are feeling helpless and how
the privilege to be able to do more, please do more.
We're gonna link some resources in the description of places.

Speaker 5 (03:08):
To donate, and also, I think.

Speaker 3 (03:11):
Like a critical part that we've talked about before is
finding your mutual aid practice to support vulnerable communities, so
we'll add in we'll add some links for that as well.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
We'll add those to our link tree too.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Absolutely, and just so you know that we're keeping ourselves accountable,
we are also going to be making a donation to
and I'll.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
Include more information about this.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
But in case this is actionable in your community, LA,
there's a ton of incredible street vendors here who are
from immigrant families or immigrants themselves, and there are a
bunch of mutual aid efforts going on in our community
to basically pay these employees to stay home so that
they can stay safe from this horrific escalation of ICE

(03:56):
as they continue to occupy our city. So if they're
similar efforts in your community, donate to them. If there
are not similar efforts in your community, I've watched through
a series of you know, signal chats over the course
of the weekend, people just going and speaking with their
community members, speaking to street vendors in their community to

(04:18):
see if this is something they would be interested in. So,
you know, there's numerous ways to stay involved in to
protect your community, and so we wanted to re release
this episode just to acknowledge that, you know, this is
a podcast that is engaging.

Speaker 5 (04:34):
With the world.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
It is the very least we can do, and that
we're staying engaged as well. To all of our listeners
who are immigrants or have family who are immigrants, we
stand with you. We will do anything and everything we're
able to.

Speaker 5 (04:50):
To continue to do.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
So The Buchtal Cast is an inclusive show. It is
for fucking everybody and well. I also wanted to mention
that hosts Pheno Lopez, who wrote this show, has also
been doing a lot to draw attention to actions and
notifying where ICE has been showing up, because that's also

(05:13):
a lot of community work we'll link in the description,
but know how to identify an ice vehicle and know
where to call if you identify an ice vehicle, so
people can be notified as quickly as possible.

Speaker 4 (05:27):
Other ways to get involved and stay engaged and support
your communities, you can distribute Know your Rights cards red cards,
which include information about the rights that immigrants and that
people in general have, and distributing those two your neighbors,

(05:50):
your community so that people can be as informed as possible.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
And that's another thing as well, where I think that
there's all of these popular narratives that people who aren't
citizens don't have rights. That's not true. There's this thing
called human rights that still exist. It's just like drives
me fucking wild. If you are able to get cards,
they're also more and more widely available. I think that

(06:15):
they're available at most public libraries if you are looking
to acquire some.

Speaker 5 (06:20):
I also think.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
That a community that has sort of been left behind
in this discussion are the unhoused. There is a tremendous
amount of overlap between the undocumented immigrant community and the
unhoused community, particularly here in LA but also everywhere. We
will be linking a number of resources in the description

(06:43):
we are still.

Speaker 5 (06:45):
Learning as well or not you know, coming on here
to be like.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
Fuck, you do better. We're all doing our best, but
just we're asking our listeners who have the privilege to
do so as we do, to stay involved, staying for
and really show up for your community in ways that
might not always be comfortable.

Speaker 4 (07:06):
Yeah, a couple talking points I wanted to touch on
as well, kind of emphasize a talking point that there
are some people who are like, yeah, we shouldn't detain
or deport immigrants because of their contributions to the workforce,
like they grow our food.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Right, This hasnt been and this is something that like
politicians who have been speaking out against ice raids have
used as their justification and it's such horseshit. Way, I
wanted to actually quote my friend Albert, who's terrific Los
Angeles organizer and a huge Bright Eyes fan, and these
are wow, two of the many reasons that I and

(07:47):
he was actually that our most recent factal Cash show
in La Albert is the best. And he yeah, he
tweeted on June ninth, just a little note, stop trying
to justify someone's existence in this country by saying their
quote unquote heart working. Literally, who gives a shit. The
government is kidnapping people in broad daylight. Whether they work
hard or not is irrelevant and beside the point. No

(08:08):
one should be defined by their labor.

Speaker 5 (08:11):
It's people.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
It's people being kidnapped from the like, from their homes
and from the streets. That is what matters. It's a
kill the cop in your head moment.

Speaker 5 (08:20):
Do not define people by their labor.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Absolutely. Another thing is people are also talking about how
this is connected to Palestine, and people are like, but why,
but how that's happening over there. There's a direct correlation
in the sense that law enforcement in the US are
trained in the fake state of Israel. They learn tactics.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
Yea, the idea of colludes with American policing systems constantly.

Speaker 4 (08:49):
Constantly, and then just the larger context of all of
this is happening because of white supremacy, pro imperialism, pro
settler colonialism, like it's it's all connected. Not to sound
like a conspiracy theorist, but it.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
Is, well there, I mean, yes, the intersections are infinite.
I mean there's yes. Also will also link in the description.
There's an episode of We the En House that just
came out on Tuesday. That also speaks to the way
that these communities and these atrocities intersect. And yeah, check

(09:29):
out the links in our description. Get involved in your
community specifically, you are needed, and stay safe. We love you,
We love you, and enjoy this episode about real women
have curbscast.

Speaker 4 (09:45):
Jamie, it's so hot in here. Can you please turn
the fan on in this recording studio?

Speaker 5 (09:53):
Well, it gets, it gets the podcast. Dusty can't can't
turn on the fan? The podcast will be covered. Does
it'll be a catastrophe for us?

Speaker 4 (10:01):
Sorry, well fine, I'll just take off all my clothes then, all.

Speaker 5 (10:05):
Right, that's not my business. I guess I'll do the same. Oh,
the same.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yeah, that sounds great. Actually, the only.

Speaker 5 (10:11):
Person that's gonna piss off is Mommy.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Mommy podcast. Cool. Well, I'm glad we sorted that out.

Speaker 5 (10:19):
Yeah, that idea that resolved very cleanly.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Derante.

Speaker 3 (10:26):
My name is Jamie Laftus, and this is our podcast
where we take a look at your favorite movies using
an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a
jumping off point for discussion.

Speaker 4 (10:39):
Which of course, is a media metric created by Creeer
cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test, whereby
two people of a marginalized gender have to have names,
they have to speak to each other, and their conversation
has to be about something other than a man, and

(10:59):
ideally for our sake, it is a meaningful, substantial conversation
and not just like a hay.

Speaker 5 (11:11):
Keep this going, this feels this sounds good, this feels good.

Speaker 4 (11:15):
How's your soup? And then the other person says.

Speaker 5 (11:18):
I'm not listening to you.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
Go away, and then the first character disappears forever and
they're like, wait, my name is Crystal as they're leaving.

Speaker 4 (11:27):
But it's too late. We didn't hear it on screen.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
That's an example of something that is great writing, but
not great to pass it. Look anyways, it's a flawed
metric because that was an amazing scene we just did.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
I'm going to base an entire screenplay around it. Yeah,
it's called it's gonna be called a soup, an extremely
soupy movie, an.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Extreme No, no, it's not. And I can't engage with
this joke any further. I can I draw a line.

Speaker 5 (12:01):
Look, look, in the.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
Case of today's episode, Uh huh Bechdel test, not a problem.

Speaker 5 (12:07):
Let's just say that right now, No problem at all. Yeah, yes,
and so I said, let's get to it.

Speaker 3 (12:12):
Let's get our incredible returning Bechdel cast guest into the room.

Speaker 5 (12:17):
Let's get her in the mix.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
We simply must. She's a comedian, podcaster, creator and host
of Mere Juanera, a podcast for potheads, and do you
remember her from our episode on Selena. It's Mala munnos.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
Hey everyone, thank you for having me. It feels great
to be back. It's our pleasure and it is also mine.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
We've brought you back. In one thousand degree heat, it's.

Speaker 1 (12:41):
You know what, There's literally nothing else I would rather
be doing than podcasting about this film in a heat wave.
It's apt it makes sense. Yeah, I feel like I'm
in the movie.

Speaker 5 (12:52):
It's true.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
We were joking about how by the end of the
episode we will all be taking our clothes off, hopefully
because of the heat.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
Look, pr Nightmare. Maybe will hr get involved?

Speaker 5 (13:05):
Maybe possibly? Am I open to it? Yes?

Speaker 4 (13:09):
Yes, so fucking hot today it is one hundred or
like ninety seven degrees in where I'm at in La
right now.

Speaker 5 (13:18):
Unpleasant, but you know it's not unpleasant.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
The movie, Oh my god, very fun watch, very enjoyable.

Speaker 4 (13:26):
Real women have curves, Molla. What's your relationship, your history
with this film?

Speaker 1 (13:32):
You know, I feel like my relationship with the film
starts with my relationship with America Ferrera because she was
like a Disney Channel darling. She was in Gotta Kick
It Up about the Latina Dance Team, and that's where,
like I was born in ninety two, that's where I
was first introduced to America Ferrera. So when Real Women
Have Curves came out, it was like, oh, this is

(13:55):
a recognizable actress who we love and she had this
like incredible like role. And I don't know if that's
a movie that a lot of people have seen, but
in like little Latina Circles, Gotta Kick It Up, real
women have curves super just iconic, like staples of our media.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
Diet nicely, So did you see Real Women have Curves?
Like right when it came out, you.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
Know, so two thousand and two. I don't remember where
I was or where I saw it. I just remember that,
like it was like this standout movie to me because
of Loop Anti Vettos is in it, George Lopez is
in it, America Frere is in it, and there are
others throughout the film who are iconic actors and actresses.

(14:40):
But I remember thinking like, oh my god, like this
little movie is like has all these recognizable faces that
I've seen in all these other projects, like you know,
Loop Aunt, the Vetols played Yea in the Selena biopic. Yeah,
So so for that reason, it was like, wow, like
I've seen these faces in all these other projects, Disney Channels,
George Lopez, and now they're all here in this one movie.

(15:02):
Like that's fucking sick.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
What a great cast and like really amazing performances across
the board.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
And learning about the I mean, we'll get into it,
but like learning about the production history of this movie
is like very frustrating and very fascinating, and I just
like can't wait to.

Speaker 5 (15:19):
Get into it.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Truly agreed, Jamie, what is your relationship with this movie?

Speaker 3 (15:25):
I had kind of a similar journey. I every d
com that came out was my favorite movie, and so
gotta kick it up was I feel like a significant
one that was like kind of in like the upper
pantheon of D coms.

Speaker 5 (15:40):
I really, really loved it.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
That was definitely how I, even though I think that
technically real women have curves was made before Gotta Kick
It Up, definitely learned about America for and like fell
in love with her through Gotta Kick It Up. And
I don't remember, I know I saw real women have
curves when I was a kid. I was trying to
sort out in my head the sequence of events of

(16:04):
like I might have seen like Gotta Kick It Up
Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants and then seen real women
have curves to be like we have to get into vintage.

Speaker 5 (16:12):
America Ferrera, right.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
But I definitely saw it when I was in like
either late middle school early high school.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Really really loved it.

Speaker 3 (16:20):
Have revisited it a couple times over the years, but
I hadn't seen it in a really long time, and
definitely not since I had moved to La And so
it was like such a delight to like revisit I
really love this movie, and yeah, getting to learn more
about the film and kind of the the at it,

(16:41):
Like I feel like this is such a cool example
of like adapting something into a movie well, which is
so often done badly or sloppily or lazily or whatever,
but like, this is just like a beautiful adaptation.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
And I'm so excited to talk about it. Yeah, Caitlin,
what's your history with real Woman? Have curve?

Speaker 4 (17:01):
I saw this movie in high school because I came
out in two thousand and two. I think I would
have seen it in like two thousand and three or
four when I was about honest character's.

Speaker 5 (17:13):
Age in the movie.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
Ye.

Speaker 4 (17:15):
Yeah, because I think, if my memory serves me correctly,
my mom had heard about this movie and was like,
I heard it's really good. Roger Eber gave it three
and a half stars. Let's watch it. Let's rent it
from the video store.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
The Ultimate yard Stick. This is a very like I
feel like I probably watched this with my mom. It's
a very mother like. There's not a lot of mother
daughter movie. Yeah, I mean, and the relationship we'll get there.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
But and it would have required someone we had to
have the DVD of this film to watch it, So
I feel like I went to Blockbuster or someone recommended it.
And because I don't remember seeing it in the movie
theaters or on TV, like, I feel like it was
a DVD situation.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's my recollection as well. Gosh, like yeah,
like that the later Blockbuster years.

Speaker 5 (18:03):
What a beautiful what a beautiful.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Time in It's Twilight.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
Does anyone remember the last DVD they got from Blockbuster?

Speaker 5 (18:10):
Wow? I feel like that's a fun question.

Speaker 4 (18:13):
My hometown was so small that we didn't even have
a Blockbuster Wow. We had to go to just like
the local video rental store, which I don't even remember
what it was called now, it might have just been
called like video.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Store, the video store.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
Amazing anyway, So yeah, I saw it in high school
as a teenager, and I haven't watched it since then,
I don't think. But there were two scenes in particular
that are just like seered into my memory. You know
when you watch a movie that you and then you
don't see it for years, but there are just like
little moments that you will never forget and then have

(18:53):
just been like logged into your memory bank forever. The
scene where America Ferrara is like admiring her body. She
like pulls her robe open and is like looking at
herself in the mirror, and then her mom comes in
and she like immediately knows that she's lost her virginity.
That like was completely steered into my memory. And then

(19:14):
the like climactic scene at the end when all the
women at the dress factory are taking their clothes off
and comparing bodies and Anna's mom is horrified, like what
a great scene. Oh, We'll never forget that.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
The other scene that I did not remember her mom
being like you lost your virginity and being right. I
was like, Oh, I'm glad. I'm kind of glad.

Speaker 5 (19:39):
That didn't stick with me. I was like, oh, how
did she know that?

Speaker 4 (19:43):
Yeah, but I think it was seared into my memory
because I was so afraid that that would happen to
me with my.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Oh right, like you can tell, like I do I
look different? And in that scene too, she opens with
like she uses such strong language with Anna, like throughout
the movie. One of the things that like really sticks
out to me is like the vocabulary that Garman that
Anna's mother uses, so like immediately in that scene, she's like,
you tramp, and then she tells her like not only

(20:14):
are you fat, you're a buta you know, very hard
language that just really punctuates like every aspect of the scene.

Speaker 5 (20:23):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
One of the scenes that stuck with me the hardest
on this viewing was the scene where it's like on
his first day working at the factory and her mom
is body shaming her, and then the second another person
enters the room, she's all of a sudden nice, And
you're like, oh, no, I know that dynamic, Like that's
so that I don't know how many times I've seen

(20:50):
that like on screen, like depicted in a very straightforward
way of like, well, yeah, like you know, I could
be a total asshole to you when no one's around,
but then the second there's a third party, my demeanor
completely changes and you're like, yeah, that's I saw that
a ton growing up, Like.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
It's just yeah, Anna's mom has this way of just
like raining on her parade, like at every possible moment,
like even from the opening scene of them, because like
that scene where she's like talking bad to Anna, Like
Anna's like admiring a dress on one of the mannequins
and she's just looking at it and how pretty it is,
and her mother immediately comes in with you can't fit

(21:28):
into that, like you're way too fat. There's no way
there's enough fabric to cover you, Like, look at your
chee cheese, they're so huge. And then in Wox, Norma
and even the very first scene of the movie, Anna's
on her way to school, her last day of high
school and her mom is sick in bed and asking
her to stay home to make breakfast for the men.
You know, she's just like a party pooper throughout the

(21:49):
whole film.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
That scened like at the factory, like truly, I was like,
oh my god, she was literally just standing there like
it turned into an attack, like.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
Oh, yeah, yeah, we will unpack that, yes relationship soon.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yes, it's wild because she's so likable. She's so lovable
the mom even when she's saying all these horrible things,
like yeah, she's still kind of funny when she's saying them,
and like the tension between the two of them is like,
I don't know, there's something still endearing about her even
as she infuriates you, you know right.

Speaker 4 (22:27):
I feel like a lot of that is just like
Lupe Antibo's performance as well, Like yeah, oh.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
Man, across the board, Like every performance in this movie
is so good and like layered and full of heart.

Speaker 5 (22:39):
And I mean the fact that like America Frera.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
Was fifteen when she started this movie, and like the
whole range of like she's just so fucking talented.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
It is such a good movie. I am sad. I
like slept on it for all of those years in between,
like when I first saw it and now your back, baby,
I'm back baby. Shall I do the recap?

Speaker 5 (23:04):
Let's do it?

Speaker 4 (23:05):
Okay? So we meet Anna Garcia played by America Feria.
She's a teenager who is about to finish high school
in Los Angeles. Ever heard of it? We meet her family,
her sister Estella played by Ingrid and I'm not sure
how to pronounce her last name, Oliu, her dad Raoul

(23:28):
played by Jorge Severa Junior, her grandfather her like Abulito,
and then her mom, Carmen played by Lupe ante Veros,
who Anna has a loving but difficult relationship with, as
we've hinted at, and we'll discuss further. Carmen, we will learn,

(23:48):
gets on Anna's case about a lot of different things
and has certain pretty rigid expectations for Anna and for Estella. Yes,
Anna heads to her last day of high school. She
and her family live in I think East La.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, Boyle Heights.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
But that's right, because that was like very based on
the source material. This was adapted from a play I know.
We'll talk about this but play by Josefina Lopez, who
writes about boyle heads a ton like that is very
much her background in her community and yeah.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
Yep, but Anna takes several city buses to get to
school in Beverly Hills. Her teacher, mister Gusman played by
George Lopez, asks her about her college applications, but she
says she's not going to college because her family cannot
afford it. He reminds her that there are scholarships, grants,

(24:44):
financial aid, but she's like, I don't know, not that
she doesn't want to, it's just she knows it's gonna.

Speaker 5 (24:51):
Be like an issue within the family, exactly.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
Yeah, her family throws a little congrats on graduating high
school celebration. We also see Anna quit her job at
a fast food joint, which upsets her mom but.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
Is a fun scene to watch her quinn. I loved
watching her quin That was very fun.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
And I actually think that the cashier is Josefina Lopez,
the one who hands her.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Okay, she is in the movie as a character named Veronica,
but I was like, who's Veronica. I couldn't remember exactly.
That's so cool, all right, that's great.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
And she killed it. She was so great In that
one scene She's.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
Keeping Anna's check in her bra and Anna's like, that's sick.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
That.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Now I like that scene even more. I was just
like where the character actor was was really funny. Yeah,
holy shit, Oh that's great. And now that I'm like
looking at her picture again, I'm like, oh, yeah, that
totally was her.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
That's her.

Speaker 5 (25:46):
Yeah, amazing.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
So Ana quits her job, which upsets her mom, who
suggests she work at the clothing factory that her sister,
Estella runs, something that neither Anna nor Estella really want.
But Anna needs to learn, needs to earn money to
help the family, and Estella is behind on her work orders,

(26:08):
so she will go to work at the factory. Mister
Gusman pays Anna a visit to keep encouraging her to
submit college applications, but her family and her mom especially
are against Anna going to college right now because she
needs to work and help the family. The next day,
Anna and her sister and mom go to Estella's clothing factory,

(26:33):
where they assemble dresses to be sold at Bloomingdale's for
six hundred dollars, even though the manufacturer only pays them
eighteen dollars per dress to assemble each dress, and Anna
points out how unfair this is, how their labor is
being exploited.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Also, I think probably at the time, that would have
been the first time I'd heard that issue discussed in
a movie.

Speaker 5 (26:57):
Like at all.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
For sure. Yeah, there's an interesting class discussion around this movie,
for sure. And then we meet the other women who
work at the factory, such as Pancha, Norma, and Rosahli.
Also on his mom Carmen body shames on us several
times and tends to comment on most people's weight. Yeah,

(27:21):
that's just kind of a habit of hers.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Well, yeah, because there is that scene where, I mean
the scene we were just talking about where she is
verbally abusive towards her daughter. Someone like her employees start
to arrive and then she's nice to them, but then
she also turns on her employees pretty quickly and starts
criticizing them as well.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
And you're like, oh, I guess this is just her personality.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Oh everybody gets it. Yeah, yeah, she gives it to everybody.
Everyone gets a slice, you.

Speaker 5 (27:47):
Get a polite hello, and then things take a turn.

Speaker 4 (27:51):
Uh huh yep. So then Anna gives her filled out
college applications to mister Gooseman, but he points out that
she's missing a personal statement and that she needs to
write one as soon as possible. Then Anna runs into
her classmate Jimmy, who seems to like her. He's got
a little crush, and he gives Anna his phone number.

(28:15):
Back at the factory, Estella is struggling to keep up
with the work order, especially after several of her workers
unexpectedly leave to move to Mexico. Then we get a
scene where Carmen tells Anna a secret that Carmen thinks
she's pregnant, but Anna is like, Mom, that's pretty unlikely.

(28:39):
Probably not what's happening.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
For all the shit that Anna has to put up with,
I love that she's always very quick to be like enough, stop, no.

Speaker 4 (28:50):
She advocates for herself exceptionally well yeah yeah, and I.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
Love her for it, even in situations where you can
tell like I don't know, or where it felt to
me like you could tell.

Speaker 5 (29:00):
She's like, I'm not gonna win this.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
Battle, but I have to say this, like, hmm, you're
not pregnant, mom.

Speaker 4 (29:06):
So then Anna goes with Estella to speak to missus Glass,
who is the owner of the dress manufacturing company to
ask for an advance so they can pay the bills
and keep the lights running at the factory, but missus
Glass still denies them in advance. So then Anna goes
to her dad for a loan. Meanwhile, Anna goes out

(29:28):
on a date with that kid, Jimmy. They have a
nice time.

Speaker 5 (29:32):
He's got big, that kid Jimmy energy too.

Speaker 4 (29:35):
Like I was like, who is this Elijah Wood? Ass
looking kid?

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, Elijah Wood wasn't available, slash, he's too old, too old,
this kid, that kid Jimmy. He was only in movies
for a couple of years and then he who knows,
he tapped out and he's done.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Yeah. I liked his character though, you know, he said
some things that made me gough, but overall agree with that.
He seemed like a sweet kid.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
He's he's very like her first nice white boyfriend. You know.
It's it's an experience, it's a type. It's oh I
had a nice white boyfriend like back home, like and
that's him right right.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
Yeah, So she goes out with Jimmy. Anna then turns
in her personal statement to mister Gooseman. We see another
day at work. It's hard, it's hot. Anna admires the
dresses she steams at the factory and is sad to
remember that they're not for her. But then Estella surprises
Anna with a dress that she made especially for Anna

(30:38):
in a very sweet moment part.

Speaker 5 (30:42):
And it is a beautiful dress too, mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
And I always wish there was like a dress reveal moment,
like an occasion for her wear that dress.

Speaker 3 (30:51):
I was like, is there a cut scene because it
felt like Chekhov's dress?

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Exactly where is the dress? Where's she wearing it?

Speaker 5 (31:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (31:01):
I hope she wore it at like some I don't know,
some New York event.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah. She goes to a.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Mixer at Columbia.

Speaker 5 (31:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Yeah, She's like, I just wore a gown to orientation?

Speaker 5 (31:13):
Is that normal? Can you do that?

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Then mister Guzmand stops by to let Anna know that
she's been accepted to Columbia University with a full scholarship,
but her parents are still like now is not the
right time for Anna to go to college, which is
extremely disappointing to Anna. She then goes out with Jimmy again,
they have sex. Her mom senses that she has lost

(31:40):
her virginity and like we were saying earlier she calls
Anna a tramp and a putta, And.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
One of the biggest mysteries of the movie, how did
she know?

Speaker 5 (31:50):
How did she know?

Speaker 4 (31:51):
It?

Speaker 3 (31:51):
Was?

Speaker 5 (31:51):
It because America Frere was like looking in the mirror
being like, go meet, Like.

Speaker 4 (31:57):
Why how does she know? Yeah? My guess is that
she was just like confidently admiring her body.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Body for the first time ever.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
Yeah, right, so she's like, I better put an end
to this confidence.

Speaker 5 (32:09):
My daughter's feeling.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
That was more the Spidey cent going off was I
think my daughter's having a good feeling.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
It's like her favorite refrain. She's always like a mother knows,
a woman knows.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
She just knows, and this time she was right. She
turns out to not be right about being pregnant because
she goes to the doctor, take.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
A hundred shots, and you're gonna make one eventually.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
True. The reason that Carmen has missed several periods in
a row is a bit is because she is going
through menopause, not because she is pregnant. So then we
see another day at the dress factory. It's a particularly
hot day and Estella won't turn on the fan because
it blows dust on the dresses. So Anna takes off

(32:54):
her shirt and her mom freaks out, but Anna is like,
what's the big deal. We're all went here, we all
have the same parts. And then all of the other
women at the factory take their clothes off. They compare bodies,
they compare cellulite and stretch marks, and they're like, we're beautiful,
We're awesome. But Carmen is looking on in horror and

(33:19):
Anna is just like, this is who we are, mom,
real women, and Carmen storms out while the other ladies
continue working and dancing and celebrating themselves and their bodies.

Speaker 3 (33:32):
I'm interested in talking about the shooting situation around that scene.

Speaker 5 (33:37):
There's a lot to talk about there too.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
Ooh, I'm interested to learn more. And then finally Anna
heads off to Columbia University. She tries to say goodbye
to Carmen and to get her mom's blessing, but Carmen refuses,
so her dad and grandpa take Anna to the airport,
and then we see Anna walking down the streets of

(34:03):
New York City. I ever heard of it, And that's
how the movie ends. So let's take a quick break
and then we will come back to discuss and we're back.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
I feel like a little bit of context for how
this movie came to be is a good place to
start before we get into the characters. So this, as
we've sort of hinted at already, this is a movie
that is based on a play by jos Afina Lopez.
Her background is she was born in Mexico and then

(34:48):
immigrated to Los Angeles. A lot of her work surrounds
that experience and sort of reflections of her experience. This
play is very much a part of that. She started writing.
I reading about her career, I'd never like gone down
this Wikipedia hole, and she's like, so fucking cool. She
wrote her first play in high school while the rest

(35:10):
of us were doing god knows what, she was at
work and she wrote a play called Simply Maria or
the American Dream. She then went on to write Real
Women Have Curves. The play was very well regarded, it
was very successful. It's my understanding is it's pretty close
to what happens in the movie because she co writes

(35:31):
the screenplay and.

Speaker 6 (35:33):
Is apparently one of my favorite characters.

Speaker 5 (35:35):
I just learned.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
But anyways, Real Women Have Curves is her biggest hit
so far, and people want to adapt it in one
way or another originally, and I didn't know any of
this before reading this kind of retrospective piece. So at
the time it was going to be adapted for television
by Norman Lear, who who is first of all, one

(36:01):
hundred years old and still alive, which you got handed
to him.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
But he had a reputation in Hollywood for being one
of the only producers who championed diverse stories for television,
and so most diverse families you saw on television in
the seventies, eighties, and nineties into the two thousands he's
still working were a result of his champion He is

(36:28):
a white producer who was known for championing women's stories
and diverse stories. So he seemed to host of Pheni
Lopez to be kind of a natural fit for getting
this project adapted into television.

Speaker 5 (36:43):
However, he did.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
One Day at a Time right, like the more recent adaptation, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Yeah, And the first one was also him, right, and
he did I'm trying to as like God, older TV
is truly not my strength, but let me get let
me get a few of his hits on the board.
Samford and Son was his One Day at a Time.
The Jeffersons Good Times Modu one of my favorite shows ever.

(37:12):
Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman like he had, he did he could.
He got stories on TV that no one else was
trying to.

Speaker 5 (37:19):
Very cool.

Speaker 3 (37:19):
So hose Fina Lopez was excited that he wanted to
help adapt it, but even with the Norman Lear Co sign,
they could not sell Real Women Have Curves as a
TV series two networks. Networks said it was not relatable
a story enough, which we know is absolute hoorseshit.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Porshit, but very typical of Hollywood.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
Of TV yeah to this day. So Josefina Lopez is discouraged.
She's like, one of the biggest TV producers in the world,
can't get this produced. Who's going to there's a second
wind with this project as a film script. So she
meets a writer named George Levu, which is what a

(38:04):
what a fun name.

Speaker 4 (38:05):
But.

Speaker 5 (38:08):
I just like to say it, George Levu.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
She meets Levu and they decide, they decide to collaborate
on a screenplay together, and finally they find an executive
who wants to fund the project. And it's a I
have a quote here, So this project was funded by HBO,

(38:32):
which I don't think I knew, not that it matters,
I just didn't know it was an HBO movie. So
Hosephina Lopez says this, I believe in twenty seventeen, in
this retrospective, HBO's maud Nadler had the power to say Yes.
It came down to a female executive saying, women's stories matter.
Stories about mothers and daughters are important to me because
I love my mother. And I remember asking mad after

(38:54):
we made the film why she said yes, she said,
because I love my mother. Took a woman in a
position of power to find value in the story, which
is I thought, I don't know.

Speaker 5 (39:06):
That was like, that's really nice.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
Yeah, And none of those men love their mothers. They
all hate their mothers. I love my mother not enough
to fund a story on woman.

Speaker 5 (39:20):
Let's not. Let's not cary away. Look look, I'm women
to a point, very like us. The father of a
daughter energy. Yes.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
So the project gets funded. They find director Patricia Cardoso,
who I believe is raised in Columbia. She signs on
for the project. Luvu and Lopez become the hottest writing
team in Hollywood.

Speaker 5 (39:51):
The movies.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
Oh and then another huge thing that happens is George
Lopez signs on as a co producer, which also was
like a big hand and getting this movie in front
of people. It goes to sun Dance and the rest
is history. But it was a huge I mean, I
think we see this a lot of times in projects
that are not centered around the white experience and the

(40:14):
white male experience. Like it was a huge uphill battle
to get this project made, even though it was already
like a proven successful entity through the play right right.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
And it really has aged so well. I was watching
it this morning and like the jokes land, the writing
feels like still very like charming and fresh and it's
just a fun watch and like nothing in that movie
is standing out in a bad, cringey way unless it's
supposed to be. You know, it's just like so well written,

(40:47):
and you know, it's like, yeah, the work speaks for itself.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
It's funny and like it's just like, I don't know,
this movie has so much going.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
For it, so charming. Sorry, there's like a trash removal
truck right outside my window making loud noises my air
conditioners on because it's eight million degrees. Sorry for all
the noise.

Speaker 5 (41:06):
Is past my house and I smell fire.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
Oh no, there's a lot going on.

Speaker 7 (41:12):
Oh everyone, everyone is okay, Okay, let's go back to
talking about the movie that takes place in la around
like literally this exact time of year.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
Yeah, during a heat wave in the summer, the sweltering heat.
Oh my gosh. But yeah, this movie does age so well.
And we've talked about there's like a span of time
for movies, and honestly it ranges for a long quite
a long time. But you know, if you're from a
certain generation, especially the movies of like the late nineties,

(41:46):
early two thousands, like if that's when you're coming of age,
and those are like the movies and the media that
you were like most exposed to, which is the case
for me at least, that era was just such a
crap shoes for most media because it was like just
steeped in sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, like you name it.

(42:10):
Marginalized communities were punched down to in media. So it's
just so refreshing to see a movie that's twenty years
old from the early two thousands to be a movie
that is like so I mean feminist. Masterpiece Number one
has so many strong impactful messages, the exact type of
thing that like young people need to see to be

(42:33):
influenced in the right direction, because it has such strong
themes and messaging about like body positivity, sex positivity. It
showcases a complicated relationship between a mother and daughter, but
one that's this very authentic and familiar to a lot
of people. So it's just like it's doing so much.

Speaker 5 (42:54):
And fast commentary.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
There's something that honestly like didn't even didn't connect for
me until I saw it, like explicitly kind of said
by the creators of the movie because I didn't have my.

Speaker 5 (43:06):
Proper two thousand and two goggles on.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
I guess was just showing Boyle Heights as the community
that it is, versus how East LA and Latin people
from La were shown in media at this time. That
like this movie had a huge hand in, you know,
offering a counter to the really prejudiced, like overly simplistic

(43:30):
narrative that was being shown and everything else, which is
like such a big part of Josafina Lopez's work.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
It's awesome, it's very wholesome.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
It is, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (43:42):
Yeah, and like, yeah, just think about all the movies
that you see that are like set in LA about
rich white people living in wealthy neighborhoods, living in huge houses,
that basically just ignores huge swaths of the population of LA. Yeah,
there's a huge LATINX community that is not often represented

(44:03):
in movies here in LA and often not represented favorably
if it is represented at all.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, I was just gonna say that Real Women Have
Curves is markedly youthful and feminine when compared to other
La Chicano Mexican American films. Like literally the other movies
that we can compare it to in the same sort
of genre or cultural space is like Blood and Blood
Out American Me. And then you know, My Familia has

(44:34):
more of a family dynamic at the beginning. But these
films and then zoot Suit, and these are all iconic films.
Zoot Suit is a musical, you know, it's a piece
of theater. But all of these films also have a
lot of violence in them. There's a lot of trauma.
There's prison and gangs, and the ethos is very masculine

(44:55):
and it's very much like a lot of men on
screen and what they're going through in their lives. And
then you have real women have curves with like I
was on ho Sephina Lopez on her website and reading
about her like about Me, which seems like she wrote it,
which is awesome, and she's talking about how she started
writing this play when she was eighteen, you know, and

(45:17):
how like yeah, and how the sensibilities of an eighteen
year old girl have everything to do with why the
film is everything that it is and it's it's I
think it feels so fresh because it is because like
such a young person wrote it. And it feels very
like like fresh too, because it doesn't look or feel

(45:38):
like steeped in super trendy stuff of the time, Like
it doesn't really look like a two thousand's film, I guess,
like it's not super stylized like their wardrobe or their
makeup or their hair or the music. You know. It's like, yeah,
very wholesome and like a zoomer today who like goes
thrifting might end up pulling some of the out so

(46:00):
that America Ferrera is wearing in real women have curves,
you know, Like it just feels very like, yeah, it
feels like young.

Speaker 5 (46:07):
I was thinking that so much of it has come
back around.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Oh yeah, absolutely, I have.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
A quote from mister Levu himself, let's say his name,
but yeah, like speaking to you know, like drew attention
to the fact like this is based on hose Afina's
experience so much, as told through the soft, warm, humorous
tone of her experience. Hopefully that's what you're seeing when
you see the city as different from the gangs and

(46:34):
the grittiness of other films from this time. Ho Safina
wanted to show the city as a vibrant place where
women can have full lives and grow. And I feel
like this movie pulls that off a million percent.

Speaker 5 (46:47):
Oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
I want to share a quote from the director, Patricia
Patricia Cardoso says quote, I wanted to show a part
of Los Angeles we don't usually see in a beautiful way,
not a CD neighborhood filled with stereotypes of East LA.
It was important to expand the concept of beauty for women,
but also for the city and the neighborhoods. So it's

(47:12):
like in this vision from the director, from the writer,
all comes through very clearly, in very satisfying ways.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
I had one other behind the scenes thing I wanted
to and I know this well, this will come in
and out for the rest of the episode. But I
was happy that this article, like as I was so
curious of like the sequence of America Ferrera lore So
I guess that she had already shot Gotta Kick It
Up before she shot Real women have curves, and I

(47:42):
just like, I love this story. It was like when
she got her check from Gotta Kick It Up, she
got a car and wanted to go to drama Camp
and like those are that's what she used her money for,
as like, she's so great, Wow, they wanted her to
tion for this movie. She was like, well, I'm going

(48:02):
to drama Camp. So if you're still casting when I'm
done at drama Camp, like hit me up basically, and
like listening to her talk about that in her thirties
and she was like that was a bold move for
a seventeen year old to do. But fortunately they still
wanted me to be in the movie. So I love
America Frer so much. I was curious about like what

(48:25):
scenes in this retrospective they would talk about, and there
was a fair amount of discussion around I feel like
the scene that people remember best from this movie when
they're in the factory at the end and they take
their clothes off and they talk about their bodies and
it's like this really celebratory, cool moment. So I guess
America Frere was yeh. I said she was fifteen. I
was wrong.

Speaker 5 (48:46):
She was seventeen when this movie was being shot.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
But she's still a kid, and I guess that on
the day that this was being shot, she decided that
she didn't want to take her pants off. So this
was sort of this was hashed by a few people,
I mean, and it seems like, you know, fifteen years later,
she's fine, everyone's relationship is fine. But at the time,

(49:11):
so the scene had been blocked, they were ready to
shoot it. I think prior to the scene being shot,
America Farah said.

Speaker 5 (49:18):
Okay, that's okay, I'll do that.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
But I just wanted to share a few quotes from
her because kids acting is like such a such a miyer,
and she was uncomfortable during that scene. So she says,
I was seventeen years old and it was only my
second job. I'd never had to take off my clothes
in front of a two hundred person crew, most of
them men. I'm sure I was incredibly intimidated by that.

(49:42):
I remember wearing a robe between takes, and as the
day went on, it was too much of a hassle
to get the robe on and off. So I was like, whatever,
I'll stand here without the robe. But basically, the crew
tells this story about how she decided she wasn't comfortable
taking her pants off, and then I believe.

Speaker 5 (49:57):
The director.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Faked getting a phone call from an HBO executive. She
was like, you know, well, you know, this is a
really important part of the script. We need you to
do this, and America Frere was like, I'm not comfortable
with that. I don't want to do it anymore. And
she's like, well, let me call HBO. The director goes outside,
fakes a call. So this is from George Levu is

(50:22):
recapping this, okay, so no, sorry, this is George Levou
making the call. Levu canceled owt okay, George Levu harsh
turn in his narrative. I don't like him anymore.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
Yeah, not, Levu's not.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
It's always It's always Levu, though, isn't it. So Levu
says I made an excuse. I said, let me call
Colin Callender, who was the head of HBO Films at
the time. I said, let me see what he wants.
So I took my phone outside and I pretended to
call Colin. I came back and said, Colin said you
have to do it, and she said, okay, we'll do it.

(50:58):
I didn't know what we were going to do. I
couldn't imagine the movie without that scene. Hopefully they're happy
it happened that way. Then Patricia Cardoso jumps on this
train and says, America was mad at me the whole day.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
It took two days to shoot.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
That scene, and she was so mad she wouldn't even
look me in the eyes. The next day she came
running to me and said, you know, now I understand
why it was important for the character to take off
her pants. Can we please shoot the scene again? I said, no,
you did it perfectly. America Ferrera, now in her thirties,
this is in twenty seventeen, kind of puts a pin
on this discussion that I was like, I'm mad at

(51:35):
them personally, But she says, I clearly see how this
film empowered others to feel seen, liberated and beautiful. But
I was a child playing everything, but a typical child.
More than saying, oh that's my body. People watched it
and said Oh yes, that's how my mom responds to
my body. That's how my culture responds to my body.
That's how the world responds to my body. For me,

(51:57):
being a young woman going through my own journey with
my body, having seen and talked, having it seen and
talked about and projected upon by people watching this movie,
if anything, sort of stunned me for a while, because
that in and of itself sent a strong message about
how I should feel about my body, and it was
a much longer journey for me to get to a
place where I felt empowered about my body. The way

(52:19):
that film helped others feel dang. So, I mean it's
levels for sure, it's complex. I mean personally, I'm like, Okay,
production wise, I don't think that that was a very
that was like a dishonest and irresponsible way to handle that.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
Yeah, especially with someone who's underage, who's a minor.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Right right, I mean she's seventeen in this situation, and
like that was the one production thing that I learned
that didn't sit super well because it's like, yeah, this
like she's an incredible performer, she's but it's I mean,
a teenager talking about their body on screen is so

(52:59):
I can't imagine how excruciatingly difficult that, oh yeah must
have been. And so to have like pressure put on
top of her, like you have to do this, like
that sucks.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Yeah, it's it's like this period of your life where
irl teenagers are still wearing T shirts in the swimming
pool and like not showing their bodies to anybody, like
if they feel uncomfortable. And I think what's interesting too,
is like America Farara, like in that quote, nowhere is
she saying that she didn't like her body, or she

(53:28):
felt fat, or she felt not proud of her body,
or uncomfortable in her body, you know what I mean.
It's like there's all these projections, and it has so
much to do with like of course, it's literally the
plot and it's the movie, and it's the character and
it's the storyline. So that's all baked in there, Like
she's cast in this role because the main character, Anna

(53:52):
is a Gordadita, she's chubby, so she's got to look
the part, you know. And then I think about the
fact that like all the levels right, because has that
script was written by somebody Josefina who probably experienced this
exact same like type of body shaming that goes on
in our families, and then those actresses, being Latinas probably
have all experienced something similar in their own lives and

(54:15):
I don't know that in their particular families or lives
that just because we have this awareness in the script
and in the movie that you know, everybody is beautiful
and that fat is beautiful, that those actresses when they
go home their families are not necessarily on board, like
that script is probably still there, you know, like that
is still happening in the outside world.

Speaker 5 (54:37):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
So it's just I just think about the compounded levels of.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
It all in a movie like this, right, Yeah, And
you hear about stories where like a scene like this
is in the script and calls for nudity, partial nudity,
you know, people wearing underwear.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
I didn't feel like inappropriate or exploitative, but I also not, like,
no can totally understand why a seventeen year old actor,
when the moment comes to take your clothes off in
front of two hundred people, no matter how safe you are,
it's like that's you can feel amazing about your body
and be uncomfortable with that, Like that's yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
So that's what I was gonna say. You hear stories
about like some productions being like, Okay, I know this
is going to be a potentially very uncomfortable scene for
the actors, so we're going to take a bunch of
precautions to make it as comfortable as possible. And that
it ranges from like hiring like choreo if it's like
a sex scene, like a sex choreographer will basically be hired,

(55:36):
or like there will be like social workers or other
kind of like mental health professionals on set or like
nearby to consult with if the actors need like to
consult with somebody or touch with someone, there will be
a reduced crew where like normally the crew might be
two hundred people, but on a shoot day like that,
you scale it way back. I've heard of like let's

(55:56):
say the DP is a man, but they will like
temporarily hire a woman. I mean they could have just
hired a woman anyway, but they.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
They did say that, like it wasn't actually two hundred people.
It was that was like I think America Frere was like.

Speaker 5 (56:14):
Hype. What is hyperbolic?

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Hyper hyperbolic?

Speaker 5 (56:19):
Yeah, I went to school, I swear.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
So per Levu there were like dividers up so that
not every member of the crew had access to the
shooting of this scene. So I don't have the number count,
but it was like America decided she didn't want to
take off her pants in front of the crew, and
I guess she told her director that she was like, oh,

(56:43):
I don't think that the character would actually do that
or all this stuff, and it just I mean, also,
I don't envy the director's position and that situation either,
because that's a really true especially on a on a
like a lower budget movie, that's a really really difficult
position to be put in.

Speaker 5 (57:00):
Yeah, for sure, but it could have been handled better.
She's a kid.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
I wonder too that scene. I wish that I could
see it like how it was staged for the theater
and for the stage, because I can imagine that. You know, obviously,
on camera you see a certain you can only see
so much and things are kind of far away, you know,
And I feel like on the stage and in the

(57:24):
theater you're much up close and personal, and I can
just imagine that the row of like the factory scenes,
and the row of sewing machines and the women sewing
and the sounds and the visual is probably very striking
and dynamic on stage. And I'm sure that when it
gets to that part about them taking off their clothes
and showing off their stretch marks and their cellulite, that

(57:44):
that's very impactful on stage and very dynamic, you know,
in a different way than in the movie. And like
I wonder how it was handled even like for the
stage and the taking off the clothes and the lead
actress and those pieces. Is because it's a scene that
everybody loves. It's like a standout scene for everyone.

Speaker 6 (58:06):
I would love to see a stage production of this.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
I also didn't know that I guess Hosafina Lopez opened
a theater in Boyle Heights.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Yes, that's Gasa zero zero one, I want to say, yeah.

Speaker 5 (58:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Back in two thousand on First Street, she has a
restaurant also called Gasa Fina. Oh way on First Street
in Mariachi Plaza and then so so, and Mariaci Plaza
is featured in the movie throughout like you see it right,
and Anna goes on her dates in Mariachi Plaza and
she walks through Mariachi Plaza to catch her bus to

(58:39):
high school. So right there on First she has her restaurant,
Gasa Mama, Gasa Fina, Gasa Fina, and then the theater
down the street.

Speaker 5 (58:49):
That's a cool.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Yeah, so that was all.

Speaker 5 (58:51):
That was all the behind the scenes stuff I had.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
Well, yeah, so let's let's take a break and then
we'll come back and discuss the story, the movie, the characters,
et cetera. And we're back.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
Okay, let's get into talking about the actual what happens
in the movie.

Speaker 5 (59:20):
I really liked. I know, I feel like every.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Time we see public transportation in a movie, I get
so excited.

Speaker 5 (59:27):
But I really like.

Speaker 3 (59:30):
I feel like we've covered five trillion movies where it's
like New York is kind of a character ra ra rare.

Speaker 6 (59:35):
But this movie, I think like La is On is like.

Speaker 5 (59:40):
Really strutting its stuff in this one.

Speaker 3 (59:43):
It is so beautiful and so like well done, and
I love that you sort of navigate the city with
public transit and I just.

Speaker 5 (59:52):
Really liked it.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yeah, yes, heart agree.

Speaker 4 (59:54):
That is again like something you don't see when you want.
Except for the iconic film Speed nineteen ninety two.

Speaker 5 (01:00:03):
Could it have happened that the La Metro certainly not.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
But yeah, I mean there's there's so much this movie
is doing as far as representation goes, as far as
just like again, powerful messaging. You know, it's a predominantly
LATINX cast. I love that Spanish is spoken frequently among
the characters because I feel like a lot of Hollywood

(01:00:28):
executives would cite that as a thing like that will
make this movie too inaccessible for a mainstream audience.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
But it's funny too, because you already had so many
like okay, like we had tons of Star Wars movies
already at this time, and they're speaking all kinds of
different made up alien languages like in those films. But
Spanish is too much, that is too inaccessible, right, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
Oh no, a language that most people in the US
speak to some degree can't have that well like not that.

Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
Meanwhile, Elvish is.

Speaker 6 (01:01:05):
Making a huge comeback at this same time.

Speaker 4 (01:01:09):
All right, because Lord of the Rings two Towers comes
out the same year.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
There you go. I feel like the movie sometimes I
feel like a movie like real women have curves, especially
at this time, is almost like a crossover situation, even
though it's Mexican Americans, like in La, like her character
ostensibly is like you know, first or second generation, like
Mexican American. And part of why I love the bus

(01:01:37):
conversation and the travel conversation is because there's this crossover
that happens in La. It's this east side west side crossover,
and you see them. She's crossing the bridge via bus
and via her dad's pickup truck to go from her
east side neighborhood pass through downtown to work or to
end up in Beverly Hills on the west side for

(01:01:58):
school or for the dad's job. And I think that's
almost like the story of the movie. It's like born
here on the east side, she was taking meetings and
she was on the west side ho Safina. I'm sure
a lot Becau's trying to get this movie made, and
it's like a journey that I think, like if you're
in La local, Like we joke about this, me and

(01:02:20):
my co host Yosa, because we live I live sort
of in the mid City area, which is a little
more west, but it's close to downtown, and the USA
lives sort of southeast, and our community is sort of
here west of Librea and beyond, and we hear so
many people like Transplant saying, oh La, like I never
go east of Librea anything east of Librea is the

(01:02:42):
east side, Downtown is the east side, silver Lake is
the east side. There's this disconnect in what LA is.
I've we've heard this so many times. So anytime that
we have to go to the west side and leave
our little enclaves, it's a thing. It's a journey. It's oh,
we're going to the west side, you know. So I
feel like Kosefina was going to the west side, and

(01:03:02):
in this movie they traveled to the west side.

Speaker 5 (01:03:05):
It's like ivan.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
For for listeners who do not understand truly, the grand
trek that Anna was taking to get to school every day,
it's I was I was trying to do the math
in my head. I'm like, that's at least an hour
and a half if the bus comes on time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Because she's like transfers. She like goes from like Boil
Heights to Hollywood and Vine. She's taking transfers, which.

Speaker 6 (01:03:31):
Is a yeah, that's uh.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
The buses here look pro. But we could use some
more routes, could use some more routes, use some more frequency,
because yeah, sometimes you're like, why am I doing a
yo yo act to get somewhere that is objectively three.

Speaker 5 (01:03:49):
Miles from where I'm sitting unclear, look.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
Right, but but but I loved that the movie took
that time to show you that journey because it like
it effortlessly communicates the class struggle that Anna is dealing
with without having to like bop you over the head
with it. It's just like an effortless part of the story.
I love how you're just told visually. And also like

(01:04:16):
when you see that kid Jimmy come to the east
Side and like, clearly it sounds like he's like one
of the people you're talking about, Malla.

Speaker 5 (01:04:25):
Where's it's He's like what what?

Speaker 4 (01:04:29):
Like there's a part where he's like because she knows
him from school, and he goes to school in Beverly Hills,
so you can presume that he probably lives in Beverly
Hills as well.

Speaker 5 (01:04:38):
It's like Shar's little brother or something.

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
Yes, yeah, he's Elijah Wood's son.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
No, he's like he's of the Wood family for sure.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
Yes, yeah, summering with the Wood family.

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
He's like, I wanted to go to Europe with you.
Things are just too easy here. You know, you're handed everything,
You're handed school, your hand, a car. That's why I
want to teach, and it's like, Okay, you're saying this
to Anna, who comes from a working class, blue collar
family where most of her family works in a clothing

(01:05:13):
factory where their labor is for sure being exploited because
they're assembling dresses for eighteen dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
To be sold at the Bloomingdale's that his family probably
shops at.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
And Anna takes the bus. She's like, what are you
talking about?

Speaker 5 (01:05:30):
I take the bus and he's like, we have buses here,
like right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:36):
What I love about that scene is like Anna doesn't
say any of that, you know, she just like listens
to him and she's like, okay, sure, Jimmy, you know,
she doesn't have to. It's so fascinating to me she doesn't.
She doesn't feel compelled to tell him he's wrong or
that he has it easy, or that her life is
so hard, or well here's what's She's on the bus.

(01:05:58):
She doesn't have a car. It's not easy for her.
And I always find those choices really fascinating of like
how much Anna is like sharing with him or not,
you know, right, because I think that in and that
sex scene that they have where he's like, I'll right you,
I'll call you, and she's very kind of cold and
says no, like for what she knows, Like this guy

(01:06:20):
is for for the now, but this is not He's
not my future and he doesn't need to know all
of me. And I think that's so interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:06:28):
Yeah, And that's just like that just like felt so
real to me, and just like it just shows how
she is a very like multi dimensional complex character where
you know, she has no qualms about challenging her mom,
challenging her sister, you know, challenging Missus Glass, the owner
of the clothing manufacturer, like, but she isn't quite so

(01:06:51):
challenging to some of the things that Jimmy says, because
he says something like, uh, and you know, we'll talk
all about like the body and fat shaming she experiences,
but he says something like you're not fat, you're beautiful,
and as if those two things are mutually exclusive.

Speaker 1 (01:07:08):
Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy Jimmy.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
And she doesn't challenge that. But it's just a much
more different dynamic that she has with this kid. She's
this like rich white kid she's just getting to know
versus her mom, who she's lived her entire life with.
And that just like felt like said, you know, we
all kind of switch our behavior and you know, based
on who we're interacting with, and so that just like

(01:07:34):
felt very familiar relatable.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
Yeah, and it is just such a cool character where
every time I don't know, like you can see even
in that scene with Jimmy, I really like when she
was like, we're not gonna have anything to talk about
in three months, like don't.

Speaker 6 (01:07:49):
Bother, blah blah blah, Like that was so cool.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
And then but in the scene right after you do
see that, like there is some insecurity attached to her
setting that boundary in that.

Speaker 6 (01:07:59):
Way where she's like, well, you're.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
Gonna have some like skinny white girlfriend in a couple
of months anyways, So like, why would I the subject
being like, why would I emotionally invest in a Jimmy
of the world?

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
And here's my question. Jimmy says that he's got into
Teachers College, which leads me to believe he's enrolling at
Columbia University. She gets into Columbia University, she ends up
in New York. Is there a real woman Have Curves
sequel where she wears the red dress in New York

(01:08:37):
and they reunite somehow is that why there loose ends, Well.

Speaker 3 (01:08:42):
This is becoming a what oh my gosh, it's becoming
a to all the boys I loved before style saga.

Speaker 6 (01:08:49):
Yes, yeah, a whole thing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
I have to wonder it's not too late.

Speaker 4 (01:08:55):
Yes it's twenty years later, but you know, I'm.

Speaker 5 (01:08:57):
Still waiting for that red dress payoff.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
I'll be on Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:09:01):
The other thing that I thought was interesting as it
relates to the kind of class commentary is Missus Glass.
So again, she's the owner of the dress manufacturing company
that Estella is a contractor of. And there's that scene
where Estella she's like at first trying to write an
email to her, and Anna is like, you gotta go

(01:09:24):
down and like talk to her. You're never gonna get
anywhere with an email. So Anna goes with her, you know,
ends up like advocating pretty hard, far more than Estella can.
But it's also like, you know, more is at stake
for Estella, so you don't you know, you get why
she's a bit intimidated by Missus Glass. But there's that

(01:09:44):
moment where Missus Glass is like, you know, I believe
a woman like me should help a woman like you,
but I can only help you so much and basically
tells her she has to pick herself up by her bootstraps. Yeah,
because she despite also being like a Latina woman who
you know, like saw something in Estella and like that's
why she wanted to help her out. But she's also
a capitalist who is for sure exploiting Estella's labor. Yeah,

(01:10:08):
you hate to see it, but that shit also does happen.

Speaker 5 (01:10:11):
It does happen. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
I find the Missus Glass character so fascinating because that
character can be open to so many interpretations, Like we
can create so many storylines behind her life. Is this
like an Argentinian Latina with the last name Glass? Like
is she like a third gen like Mexican American who
like went to like Harvard Business School? Like who is

(01:10:34):
this woman? And why is she the way that she is?
You know?

Speaker 5 (01:10:38):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:10:38):
And I love the tension there too with like you
have Anna, who like went to Beverly Hills High School
and is college bound and is very kind of she
feels like she knows a lot of things right, And
I feel like there's a lot of like power trips
in this movie about what we know and what we
don't know. So I think Anna feels like among her family,
she knows more things than like her mom, and her

(01:11:00):
mom feels like, well, a woman knows, and a mother knows,
and that's her favorite saying, you know, because she's a mom,
so she knows, and she's a married woman, so she knows.
And Anna went to Beverly Hills High, so she knows,
you know. And so Anna thinks. Anna thinks that she's
about to help her sister out and like negotiate with
this business lady. But Anna is way and over her
head and this lady is way out of her league,

(01:11:23):
and Anna's actually doing more harm than good. And she
thinks she's helping, you know. And so it's like, maybe
there's a reason Estella has been kind of moving the
way she's been moving, because maybe Estella knows something that
Anna doesn't know, right, And I love all of that,
that kind of merry go round, I.

Speaker 3 (01:11:40):
Don't think in my I think I got I was
so caught up in the Anna of it all in
my earlier viewings because it's like that is, especially if
you're like a teen girl, you're plugging yourself into Anna,
like end of story. I didn't think as much as
I probably should have about Estella's character, and on prepping
for this episode, I was like kind of blown away

(01:12:02):
by how much there is in Estella's character, even though,
like I mean, she's a main character, but she doesn't like.

Speaker 5 (01:12:10):
Actually speak that much.

Speaker 3 (01:12:12):
She doesn't take a ton of like action action or
because it's so Ana's story and the relationship between Anna
and her mother is so focused on. But I really
love Estella, and I don't think I like had the
tools to understand what she was up against when I
first saw this movie, because Anna is so headstrong and

(01:12:33):
like pushes back on everything and in a way that
it's like really cathartic and cool to see, and and
I think in my mind at the time, I'm like, well,
why doesn't Estella stand up for herself more? And like
not understanding there the dynamic there where even watching like
how like it's clear that ten years prior Estella was

(01:12:54):
treated the way Anna's being treated now by her mother,
which is I f like represented in that scene where
their mom basically says, like, well, it's too late for Estella.
I'm going to focus on Anna, And it seems like
Estella has put so much energy and like her life
into pleasing her mom. And doing what she thinks is

(01:13:15):
the right thing and trying to like meet the bar
that their mom is setting that no one can ever
actually reach. Yeah, and then ten years later be blamed for.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
It, and she's still not the mom's favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
Right, and then like ten years later, she's still catching
shit for it and her mom has given up on
her for no reason, even though Estella seems like she like, yeah,
is I mean, I don't know enough about how a
textile factory is run to say this for sure, but
it seems like Estella is kind of like doing the
bulk of the day to day stuff. She's handling all

(01:13:49):
the rent issues and the checks and like a lot
of the high level stuff, but is like not appreciated
by the powers that be, certainly, but also doesn't seem
it seems like she she's really undervalued by her own mom.
And just like seeing how that because that does I
don't know, like being Estella's age and not Ana's now
you're like that does wear on you. And of course

(01:14:11):
there's just like Anna has the energy to fight every battle,
and it's like, but that changes over time, and I
just love Estella and.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
With no Stellash, I feel like Estella's underrated too, because
if I knew somebody who had their own dress manufacturing
business and was selling gowns to Bloomingdale's, like was filling
orders constantly, that's a big fucking deal. Like that's an
accomplished seamstress designer, like business woman, Like that's nothing to

(01:14:46):
sneeze at. She's being exploited. It is literally a sweatshop setting.
But it's impressive when we really break it down and
think about what she's doing there. And I don't think
that Anna sees that.

Speaker 5 (01:14:58):
She's literally phantom thread like.

Speaker 4 (01:15:03):
It's also it's like further complicated by so you can
kind of imagine that Estella took up this business because
that's what her mom did. Like Carmen says that she
has been sewing for thirty eight years and she started
when she was like thirteen. So like you have Estella
like taking in her mom, you know, like taking after

(01:15:23):
her month. Let's the expression take something footsteps following, following
in her footsteps. I was like, why can't I put
this sentence together?

Speaker 5 (01:15:33):
It's nine degrees.

Speaker 4 (01:15:35):
Why So she's following in her mom's footsteps, possibly to
impress her mom, possibly because that's the skill her mom
taught her, you know, there could be any number of reasons,
and was able to open up her own factory. Yeah,
which I think maybe it seems to be implied that
like that's something that Carmen didn't have the opportunity or

(01:15:58):
the money that you need to start your own business,
but it's something that Estella was able to do. And
so she started her own business. And now she employs
her mom, so she's her mom's boss. And then her
mom mentions how from decades of sewing, she's she's become arthritic.

(01:16:19):
She can't see very well, and she's like not actually
able to work very well because like this hard labor
has really worn on her over the years. But she's
ashamed by that and is not really communicating that too Estella,
but she tells it to Anna, and it's just like
there's like so many such an interesting and complicated family dynamic.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of layers, and it's like
you have this situation where like the mother and the
sister have dignity in their work, even though it's not ideal,
because that is such a step. Like she's a business owner,
she is doing deals with blooming Dale's and this team.
They're employing people. Right. There's this scene where Carmen and

(01:17:05):
Anna's father they're talking to each other and the father
is saying, she can learn a lot at Columbia, Like
she's accepted, she got a scholarship, she can go get educated.
And her mother says, I can educate her. I can
teach her how to sew. I can teach her how
to take care of children. I can teach her how
to keep a house. She doesn't do laundry. She's my
greatest disappointment, you know, she doesn't listen to me. And

(01:17:27):
you know, it's interesting because I think there's a piece
there where like the mom and the sister are like,
we like our lives and we are doing work, and
we are supporting ourselves, and this is a dignified life
that's also worth living, you know. And so there's this
like divide there where she's very young and she's pushing

(01:17:50):
back on it and she's pooh pooing it, but it's
what's also allowed her to go to Beverly Hills High School,
you know, and she's had that familial support. So there's
that push and pull there where like in their heart
of hearts, they want more for her, but they know that,
like this is their world and for her to step
out of it, what does that mean about their world

(01:18:10):
and them and all of that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:13):
I mean it's like and and again, like that whole
message is conveyed in like a single scene which is wild,
like the scene when mister Guzman comes back to the
house and I did I know that this is like
she's wrong for this, but it did always make me
laugh every time Carbon saw mister Guzman coming and she's like,

(01:18:34):
who is that? Let's get him out of here, like
She's slamming the door, and George Lopez's face.

Speaker 6 (01:18:38):
Man, yeah man looking for You're like, that's that's her feature.

Speaker 3 (01:18:44):
But yeah, like that that whole class tension of like
and I feel like you see it a little bit
in Nostello's character as well, where it's it's not like
mister Guzman is trying to say like one thing is
more valuable than the other, but I think like his
person aspective is like, well, you sent her to this
like bougie high school. Do you want her to have

(01:19:06):
access to what the bougie high school was supposed to
have gotten her access to? And then from where Carmen
and Estella are sitting, and from where the whole family
is sitting, it makes total sense to be like, well,
why are you telling us that the life that we
have isn't enough? Like it feels like Anna is the
only person in the room at any given time who

(01:19:27):
understands that and like understands both sides of it, and
we don't. I guess we don't know enough about mister
Guzman's background. Maybe he does understand this tension and his
power is just kind of very limited in this situation.
Because you're totally right, Marla, Like it's so wild the
way that Estella is treated and like the circumstances she

(01:19:48):
has to work under because she's also I liked that
you have that details. She's a brilliant designer, and like
I hope that you know, in the inevitable, you know,
real woman have curves to return of the red dress.

Speaker 4 (01:20:01):
Boots, she had an extremely curvy movie. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
Yeah, she has like her own like fashion house or
like something like that, where like she's so talented, but
it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
It's got an ig boutique right exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:20:18):
It is like doing expensive custom red carpet looks yes.

Speaker 5 (01:20:22):
For America Ferrera.

Speaker 4 (01:20:24):
Question Mark.

Speaker 5 (01:20:27):
But and then the movie explodes.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
But but I I thought it was interesting how like
there's those moments with Estella, the moments I liked most
between Anna and Estella, or when Estella, I think would
sometimes internalize how various systems were failing her and her
business as individual failures, which is, you know, how the

(01:20:54):
systems want you to feel. And I feel like, you know,
even though the Missus Glass thing did not pan out
and was that was kind of naive on honest part
to think you could just march in and change a
girl boss's mind. But like Estella, it seems like I had
internalized a lot of shame about it, and like she

(01:21:14):
wasn't able to talk to people about it, and you
would imagine if she went to Karmen about it, Carmen would.

Speaker 5 (01:21:20):
Give her shit about it, because that is.

Speaker 3 (01:21:22):
Very inherent to how Carmen treats her daughters. And just
like watching Estella this like brilliant business owner who should
be you know, in Milan or whatever, like having to
internalize this bullshit is it's I don't know, it's like
pretty subtle in the way that it's like telegraphed in
the movie.

Speaker 5 (01:21:42):
But I just I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
It just felt like this whole other element to what's
going on in her life that I didn't take a
lot of note on because I was America.

Speaker 5 (01:21:53):
For her built and just didn't understand the world as well.

Speaker 1 (01:21:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:21:57):
Absolutely, and yet there's still so much to about Anna's
character to where like, so we've been kind of dancing
around the mother daughter relationship throughout the entire discussion, So
let's just get into it. It's a complicated relationship. It's
clear that Carmen very much loves and cares for her

(01:22:18):
daughter and is coming from a place where she thinks
what she's doing, what she's saying, is what's best for
her daughter. She's not really doing anything out of like
spite or malice. It's just this is what she knows
and she's trying to pass it along to her daughter,
and it's what she thinks is best for Anna. This

(01:22:38):
often manifests as Carmen policing Anna's body in two pretty
major ways. One is her size and the other is
her sexuality. And this is obviously informed by Carmen's religious
beliefs and her kind of cultural like you know, yes,
she is reinforcing a lot of pa triarchal standards that

(01:23:01):
were pretty par for the course for her generation her culture.
Anna is from a younger, more progressive generation. She grew
up in a different country and culture from her parents,
and this has kind of empowered her to push back
against like her mom's ideology because we constantly see that
kind of tug of war of Carmen either fat shaming

(01:23:25):
or slut shaming Anna, and then Anna challenging it absolutely.
So again we have like Carmen constantly making comments about
Anna's weight, her size. She says things like, you know,
you would look beautiful if you lost weight, and constant
comments about her body, and then you have Anna again

(01:23:48):
constantly challenging this and pushing back and saying things like, well,
I happen to like myself and yeah, maybe I do
want to lose weight, but part of me doesn't because
my weight says to everybody, fuck you, And she says,
you know, how dare anybody try to tell me what
I should look like or what I should be when
there's so much more to me than just my weight.

(01:24:09):
And that's such a wonderful thing to be in a
movie that is targeted to I mean everyone, everyone should
watch this movie. But it's like targeted to probably a
younger audience, you know, teens, tweens. So you have like
this young character who's like advocating for herself and pushing
back against this like harmful ideology of fat shaming and

(01:24:33):
body shaming.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
I've been watching Dance Moms and Abby Lee Miller has
sort of helped me to better understand Carmen's character because
interest well, yes, because Abby Lee is known for her
harsh words and teaching tactics with her students, but her
students also win like the sweep right, and so abby

(01:24:54):
Lee at one of her competitions was like, listen, I
tell you the harsh truth and rehearsal because I don't
want to put you on a stage and parents and
other coaches are saying nasty things about your technique and
your unpointed feet in the audience and you're getting dinged.
I'm saying it so you fix it, and other people
are not saying it and humiliating you. And I feel

(01:25:16):
like there are some older women and I know for
a fact Latina mothers, because my mother kind of is
of this sort of mindset sometimes like well, I'm your mother,
and if I don't tell you who's going to tell you?
And I feel like Carmen has this sort of very
like she likes to tell cautionary tales, like if you
don't listen to your mother, this is what's going to

(01:25:36):
happen to you. I'm telling you because I'm your mother.
Like there's that one scene where they're watching that novella
and I love this title, Los pobresoran mass and the
girl like it doesn't listen to her mom and gets
decapitated in the process trying to run off with some guy,
and Carmen is like, that's that's what happens. That's what

(01:25:56):
happens when you don't listen to your mother. A mother
knows the right man for her, you know. So it's
like for me, that's who Carmon is.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
While like poor Anna's trying to write her college essay
at the table, She's like stop.

Speaker 1 (01:26:10):
The decapitation comes up, like mid essay writing, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:26:17):
Oh that's perfect. And then there's also this this undercurrent
throughout the movie that these women in the factory are
making dresses that they can't fit into because glamorous clothing
is often not manufactured for larger bodies because you have
puncha saying talking about address that Estella is designing, and

(01:26:38):
she says something like, yeah, I would definitely wear that
if it would fit me, parentheses it wouldn't or like
I couldn't probably find a dress that would fit me
like this.

Speaker 5 (01:26:48):
But that's why. And real women have curves too.

Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
Estella is the most famous inclusive designer in the entire
world world, like exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
She's styling Lizzo, She's said everybody. Yeah, the script writes itself, honestly,
Yeah we don't.

Speaker 3 (01:27:06):
We don't need LaVoo this time. Just get them out
of the Yeah, laboo more like it more like la
poo wowidding.

Speaker 4 (01:27:23):
And then that's really sweet scene where you see Estella
giving the dress that she made for Anna and she
says like I cut this specifically for your body and
says like pretty dresses aren't just for skinny girls, and
it's just such a beautiful little like button on that
through line of the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:27:43):
Yeah, the dresses are such a double a triple whammy,
because it's like it costs these women money to make
these dresses. Practically, like not only can they not fit
in the dresses they're making, but they can't afford the
dresses they're making because they cost six hundred dollars. And
the constant throughout the film is I don't think we
ever see the women really get paid, you know, until

(01:28:04):
the very end they reimburse the dad because of the loan.
The landlord is coming because she's laid on red like
the dress is actually even just to work is like
costing them and it's wild to see.

Speaker 3 (01:28:16):
It made me so sad, like and it made me
I felt like a moment of like frustration with Estella.
I was like, oh, but that it's like, but she's
being put in an impossible position.

Speaker 5 (01:28:26):
It's just and I feel like it.

Speaker 3 (01:28:29):
The movie, I guess in that moment did kind of
telegraph clearly why Estella feels like this is all her fault,
because she's the one that has to tell her employees,
I can't pay you even though you're doing really really
hard work like all the time, and I won't turn
a fan on because of dust Like it's of course

(01:28:49):
she feels terrible, but it's like, but yeah, I don't
know this viewing, I was Estella pilled on this one.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
And the thing about the movie too, was like that, Ah,
there's so much, so many questions because Anna goes off
to New York. She's streating her stuff. But remember, like
Estella stayed behind because she had to go to the factory.
Like the factory continues, the dead is still there, like
the turnover, that's all still, that's still going on while

(01:29:18):
Anna's in New York.

Speaker 4 (01:29:19):
Right at least Estella gets her own bedroom now because
they were sharing a bedroom.

Speaker 1 (01:29:24):
So true, that is she deserves she deserves.

Speaker 5 (01:29:28):
Yeah, she deserves. I mean, she deserves her own place.

Speaker 4 (01:29:30):
We could.

Speaker 5 (01:29:31):
Like I wanted to get back to mom a little bit.

Speaker 3 (01:29:35):
As well, because I really do think it's like it's
such a tricky rule. I feel like it is such
a testament to Lupe Antevero's for making Carmen a lovable
character and like because I feel like on paper it's tough.
The things she says to her daughters can be so

(01:29:56):
cutting and awful, and the fact that she is able
to get across, Like I do believe that she loves
her daughters. But there's all these layers of and I
know that there's there's so many Oh there's another fire.
Oh no, I know there's so many layers of what Carmen.

Speaker 5 (01:30:15):
Is kind of projecting onto her daughters. It's a lot
of cultural values that she grew up with.

Speaker 3 (01:30:21):
It's a generational value, it's it's internalized shame being projected
back onto her kids.

Speaker 5 (01:30:27):
And there was an element.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
Of it the closest I could get to, like relating
to outside of like just being a body shamed by
female relatives, which happened in my family brutally and all
the time. But it almost felt like there is like
this part of Carmen that wants her daughters to suffer
in the same exact ways she did and like to

(01:30:51):
not suffer in those It almost reminds me of like whence,
like with this whole student loan forgiveness debate, where people
are like, well I had to be an ex dream
debt for twenty years, so my kids should too, and it's.

Speaker 5 (01:31:03):
Like, no, that doesn't don't know what.

Speaker 1 (01:31:06):
No, Yeah, but on.

Speaker 3 (01:31:08):
A human level, you can understand how you know she,
I mean, Carmen has had to deal with shit her
entire life, and she was raised a very particular way,
and you understand how she got to where she is
in the way she views the world. And also be like,
but you have to let your daughters, you know, you've

(01:31:28):
got to want more for your kids. You've got to
want them to be able to go their own way.
And it's such a difficult relationship to see play out
because you you, I don't know, you feel so much
for everybody, but sometimes you just want to be like Carmen,
come on.

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
Yeah, There's there's a piece too where it's like Carmen,
she is harsh and she can be mean. There's this
really interesting layer there though, where it's like sometimes like
Mexican families do speak that way to each other and
it can come off as harsh and me but it's
not unbelievable and it's not unrealistic, right, And I feel

(01:32:04):
like sometimes like oh, it's almost like you actually can't
body shame like a Latina because our families have already
been doing it for years, Like we've been hearing this
stuff for our whole lives, Like people speak about our
bodies in very public and specific terms, like your body
part isn't just the body part, it becomes like a

(01:32:25):
stand in for your whole identity, Like we have words
just to refer to you in relation to a body part,
Like if you have a big butt, you don't just
have a big butt, you are a Nalgona, Like that
can be your nickname, Like if you have big chee cheese,
you can be a chi choa, Like that's your nickname,
that's your title, you know, Gorbita, she calls her throughout

(01:32:45):
this is and I love the caption the translation because
she goes, this is my Gorritha right here, and it's like,
this is my fatty butter bright here right, my butterball
butterball also in the captions. But these are actual terms
that people actually call all girls and women like irl
and so is it uncomfortable? Yeah? Are they sometimes terms

(01:33:07):
of endearment?

Speaker 5 (01:33:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:33:09):
Are they sometimes kind of cute see names? Yeah? But
can they also be used like to cut? Also? Yes?
So there's also like that sort of like very subtle
like line that I love that hole Setina plays with
with her writing.

Speaker 4 (01:33:23):
Yeah, and it works so well. And then again, the
other thing that Carmen tends to do with Anna it
mostly well part. So it's like Carmen has this idea
that you know, a woman has to save herself quote
unquote till marriage. She can't have sex until she's married,
and it's also her duty to get married and start

(01:33:45):
raising a family and to take care of that family
and to take care of her husband. And she wants
Anna to get married as soon as possible. And you know,
she has that little the figurine of of San I
forget which Saint Saint Anthony, So you know she's holding out.
She's like and she's like, I've lost hope that Estella

(01:34:07):
will get married, but now so now I have to
really focus on this future for Anna. So that's kind
of where she's coming from as far as like Anna's
like sexuality and like her expectations of what Anna is
going to do with like starting a family and that

(01:34:27):
kind of stuff. Anna does not buy into this. She's
just like, I'm gonna like start dating this kid, Jimmy
for the summer. She wants to have sex with him.
She tells him, you know, I feel ready. She has
sex on her terms, which is I think is an
amazing thing to show on screen of like, you know,
a young woman feeling ready to have sex for the

(01:34:50):
first time, and the condom scene she buys a condom.
Everything is on her terms. You know, she gives consent
like this. This is all like wow, I loved it
to see on screen that actual sex scene when you
know she's like, she turns the lights back on. She's like,
I want you to see my body. This is what
I look like. That whole thing I thought was handled

(01:35:12):
so beautifully. And I don't think it's like an act
of protest against her mom's ideology. But it's just like
what she wants to do. And it's like what she's
doing despite it not wanting what her mother wants for her.
And Anna pushes back on this and says, why is
a woman's virginity the only thing that matters? A woman
has thoughts, ideas, a mind of her own, And so

(01:35:33):
Anna is like constantly advocating for like I'm more than
my weight, I'm more than my size, I'm more than
my virginity, you know, And it's just like a feminist
icon eighteen year old Anna and.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
America Ferrera like performs the hell out of those speeches.
I like it's so good, Yeah, I really And I
liked that. I feel like a lesser movie. I don't know,
like this is such a case study for like women
like writing and directing stories about women, especially with the
amount of specificity that Josefina Lopez does, Like it just works,

(01:36:09):
Like it's amazing and I feel like a lesser story
would have because I was just like, okay, other teen
movie analogs, you see that, Like in a lesser movie
and a lesser story, Anna would have been like, Oh,
this boy thinks I'm beautiful, so I'm in love with him.

Speaker 5 (01:36:27):
Now, and like all this stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:36:29):
But she like is very in charge of her sexuality.

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
She's I loved that they went out of the way
to be like and she made sure that she was safe.
She protected herself because who knows what's going on with
this kid Jimmy, but also doesn't know how condoms work,
which is very true of seventeen year olds, and that
when she was done, she was like, you know, I
don't want this to be a relationship.

Speaker 5 (01:36:53):
I feel like teen movies so.

Speaker 3 (01:36:55):
Often put young women in the situation of like the
first boy that is nice to me or finds me attractive,
or like sees me for who like the whatever walking
down the stairs moment?

Speaker 5 (01:37:06):
What's that movie that I hate? All that?

Speaker 3 (01:37:08):
Yes, like the first the first boy that sees me
for who I really am is the love of my
life and blah blah blah, And Anna's like, I live
in the real world. I don't want to keep seeing
you and like it's just such a that happens nowhere,
Like it was just so cool to see her take
charge of everything.

Speaker 1 (01:37:26):
Yeah, I love too that the movie manages to be
very dramatic, hilarious, hilarious, but also very dramatic, and nothing
that dramatic happens plot wise, like she graduates high school,
dates a boy, and goes to college, you know, like
and like works summer, Like.

Speaker 5 (01:37:49):
It feels so cinematic that you know.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
Very wholesome. But there's it's so cinematic and that's for
me is the you know, she doesn't get pregnant, she
doesn't go to jail, no one dies of an overdose, Like,
there's no stabbings, like, but drama. And that's the brilliance
of the movie and the writing, Like that's the storytelling
because you're captivated and you're like feeling feelings and going

(01:38:13):
through it with her, And I feel like that is
the drama of teen angst. That's how heightened it can be.
She's just being a teen girl going the fuck through
it and clashing with her mom.

Speaker 4 (01:38:25):
And you know, the movie doesn't take any shortcuts when
it comes to like this is a dramatic story, so
someone has to die. Like it's just like life is dramatic,
yeah and hilarious. Yeah, and the movie balances both very well.

Speaker 5 (01:38:43):
It's so good.

Speaker 3 (01:38:44):
Yeah, it's yes, well you said it perfectly where you're like, yeah,
like teen girl life is everything feels.

Speaker 4 (01:38:52):
Like a movie.

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
Yeah, everything teen ANGSTNGST. And so this is I think
just in that vein Teen Girls, you know struggle.

Speaker 6 (01:39:03):
They're in the trench. They're in the trenches twenty four
to seven.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
Truly, if you're a teen girl listening, I salute you.
It does get better eventually, it will eventually eventually its hold.

Speaker 5 (01:39:15):
On another thing.

Speaker 3 (01:39:17):
I feel like I just was so impressed and like
blown away by the writing of like there's no character,
however small, that you don't have some level of investment in,
because the script goes out of its way to like,
you know, at least something about every woman who works
with Estella, Like you get to know them over the

(01:39:38):
course of the movie, even like in I think again,
in like a less thoughtfully written movie, it would just
be like background seamstress number four, but that role like
doesn't exist. You learn everyone's name, you learn a little
bit about them, or at least get a taste of
their personality, and I feel like that just makes the
payoff of this, Like it could have been a like

(01:40:00):
I Am Spartacus moment where you're like, this is kind
of cool, but who are these people?

Speaker 5 (01:40:04):
But it's like you know who who.

Speaker 3 (01:40:06):
These women are, and you already have gotten to know
like a little bit of their history and their relationship
with their co workers throughout the movie, and so it
feels like, Oh, I'm in a room full of women
whose lives I know something about, and now they're finally
comfortable talking about their their bodies and their insecurities and
their like everything, and it just felt so yeah, like

(01:40:29):
the attention to detail is so awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:40:34):
Absolutely, Uh what else?

Speaker 5 (01:40:37):
What else we got going on?

Speaker 3 (01:40:38):
Sorry, I feel like I just blacked out for a
second because I inhaled.

Speaker 4 (01:40:46):
So hot hot.

Speaker 5 (01:40:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:40:50):
I want to share one last quote from the creator
of this property cos of Veena Lopez. So the play
seems to be a bit more focused on the on
a character being undocumented for some portion of her life

(01:41:10):
and the anxiety about being undocumented and being deported, and
that is a focus on the play that is eliminated
from the movie. So this quote, this quote is a
little bit about hose Aphina talking about being undocumented, just
to put that into context. But Hosephina says, quote, I
was undocumented for thirteen years. I wanted to write a

(01:41:32):
play to affirm my humanity because I felt so dehumanized
being undocumented. I've always had issues with my weight, and
one of my teachers told me not in a mean way.
She thought I was a great actress, that I had
the ability to play Juliet and Lady Macbeth, but no
one was going to cast me as the ingenue if
I didn't lose weight, because only thing girls get the lead.

(01:41:55):
Men write roles and direct the movies. So I had
to adhere to those standards. Wise, I'd always play the
side character. I thought, Okay, if I lose the weight,
then I'm going to be told by casting people that
i should change my name to a white name, change
my hair color. If I do this, I'm going to
have to give up who I am to be an actress.
I refused to do that. The problem isn't that I'm undocumented, Mexican,

(01:42:19):
working class, or overweight. The problem is society. Unquote. That
sentiment feels like it comes through in this movie very well,
and that that's like the core of what so much
of this movie is about, and it's just such a

(01:42:40):
positive thing for that to be out in the world.

Speaker 5 (01:42:44):
I hell, yeah, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:42:45):
Such a nice She's so cool. The last thing I
had this is not a criticism. It was just something
that I is something we've talked about in the show before,
and so I wanted to sort of see what y'all
felt about it.

Speaker 5 (01:42:59):
I really love that this.

Speaker 3 (01:43:01):
Movie puts mother daughter relationships front and center and gives
them precedents. We get a few scenes with their father,
who seems to be a very nice, affable kind of guy.

Speaker 1 (01:43:16):
Yeah, real nice guy.

Speaker 5 (01:43:17):
Right, but as is their grandfather.

Speaker 3 (01:43:20):
I just feel like, I don't know, I mean, I
I don't even think that I would want anything to
be changed. I just think that there are moments in
movies at center around mother's and daughters where it's like
the dad is always like the quote unquote nicer guy.
It just felt like a little I was like, okay,
so well, dad.

Speaker 1 (01:43:41):
When dads are mean, they're scary, Like we're gonna get
too scary territory with mean dad, right, So it's like
all all the kind of baggage is rolled into Carmen,
and it just like, I don't know, I mean, I
didn't really feel strongly about it. I just always feel
like I noticed when there's a lot of movies where
it's like the dad is quote unquote the nice parent.

Speaker 4 (01:44:04):
Yeah, yeah, I would say that, yes, And that certainly
is a trope that we've discussed to a large extent
on the show. But I think it all depends on
how the movie approaches it and how the movie actually
handles it. In this movie, it didn't feel tropy. It
didn't feel like it was leaning into stereotypes about a
mom being.

Speaker 5 (01:44:25):
Right, what is the word I'm searching for?

Speaker 3 (01:44:27):
But she's like so, I mean, Carmen is so like
contextualized and well written and like hmm, you understand, yeah,
why she reacts the way she does.

Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
Right, There's all these shows like there's like I think
of like the Mom, I'm like Malcolm in the Middle.
Then there's like Everybody Loves Raymond, the White Debra and
I love all these characters, all these women. What's the
other one? But there's a bunch right like where like
the mom is oh my wife and kids, the dad
is like funny goofball and then the mom's kind of

(01:44:58):
kind of a bitch, kind of strict, always yelling, high strung,
like he's always doing stupid things to stress her out.
And I feel like in this film, like Carmen is like.

Speaker 5 (01:45:07):
An anti hero.

Speaker 1 (01:45:08):
Yeah, yeah, we can't stand her and she sometimes because
of the thing she says, but we still love her.
And I also feel like I love that Anna's character
is allowed to be kind of a brat, Like Carmen's
kind of a bitch and Anna's kind of a brat.
And as much as they insist that they are different,

(01:45:29):
the more we see their similarities. And I feel like
it's so interesting the way she pits them against each other.
But it's like, oh, we're learning more about each one
of them because they're the same person, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:45:43):
It is like another thing where it's like I want
to see, Yeah, I feel like we're making a strong
case for a sequel. I want to see what this
relationship between them looks like twenty years down the line,
like because I do understand like they're her parents. I mean,
there's so much anxiety around on a leaving to go
to college, especially across the country, and I feel like

(01:46:04):
there's a subtext of like she's gonna change, she's gonna
like not be the girl that we raise, and like
she'll lose.

Speaker 5 (01:46:11):
Touch with who she is if she leaves.

Speaker 3 (01:46:14):
And I would love to see that relationship examined twenty
years down.

Speaker 1 (01:46:19):
Ah.

Speaker 5 (01:46:19):
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:46:20):
My last observation is, so there is another movie about
like a young woman who's just graduated from high school,
who lives in California and has a difficult relationship with
her mother. She dates a boy and has sex for
the first time, and then she goes off to college

(01:46:42):
across the country. I also think in New York City
and that movie is Ladybird. There's a lot of parallels here.

Speaker 1 (01:46:49):
Interesting, And Ladybird's kind of a brat.

Speaker 3 (01:46:52):
Yeah yeah, and like a lot of body stuff with
the mom as well body stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:46:57):
You know, there's class commentary in that movie as well.
Very similar movies.

Speaker 5 (01:47:01):
Interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:47:01):
I would say, if you like Ladybird, for sure, check
out Real Women Have Curves if you haven't seen it.
I think the real women have curves? Does it better?
I find it to be a.

Speaker 5 (01:47:11):
More fifteen years earlier.

Speaker 4 (01:47:13):
Fifty Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:47:15):
Yeah, I didn't make that connection, yeah, totally.

Speaker 4 (01:47:18):
So, Yeah, if you liked Ladybird. Definitely check out real
women have curves if you haven't seen it.

Speaker 3 (01:47:26):
Sorry, I got caught up in my own horrible Ladybird joke,
which is, instead of that boy, Jimmy, Ladybird has that boy.

Speaker 4 (01:47:32):
Timmy Oh, Timmy shallow May, Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:47:37):
Timmy shallow May, most hilarious joke of all time.

Speaker 1 (01:47:42):
And on.

Speaker 5 (01:47:44):
No, there's actually no good way to transition this, but I.

Speaker 4 (01:47:47):
Mean talking about Timothy Shalamey. I do think passes the
Bechdel test. If that's where you.

Speaker 5 (01:47:51):
Were going, I don't know what is he like?

Speaker 4 (01:47:54):
You know, like this, can we even a good question?

Speaker 3 (01:47:57):
You really vouch for him? I feel like it's still
kind of a miss. It eludes me, but you know,
it doesn't elude me. Whether this movie passes the Bechel
test or not.

Speaker 5 (01:48:06):
Yes, we did it.

Speaker 6 (01:48:08):
This movie super passes the Bexel test.

Speaker 3 (01:48:10):
It's barely even worth discussing because it passes between almost
any pairing of characters that aren't men. I like we
discussed before, this movie does takes a lot of care
to give every character in the movie, particularly the women,
a name and some information about them. So really, any

(01:48:31):
interaction happening to get the factory that isn't explicitly about marriage, passes.

Speaker 5 (01:48:36):
The Bechel test.

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
They're talking about their bodies, they're talking about school, they're
talking about work, they're talking about deadlines.

Speaker 5 (01:48:41):
They're talking about taxes, they're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:48:44):
They're just you know, dare I say it being full
on people and characters the whole damn movie?

Speaker 1 (01:48:51):
Yep.

Speaker 4 (01:48:52):
And as we also touched on in the episode, this
movie has just so much focus on the female character
and the relationships between female characters. And while there are
you know, there's a dad, there's the grandpa, there's a
couple male cousins, those characters are like pretty secondary or tertiary,

(01:49:13):
and it's really so much of a focus on the
women and their relationships, so still.

Speaker 5 (01:49:18):
Depicted with love.

Speaker 3 (01:49:19):
It's not like they're like left by the wrisub but like,
but you know, like but yes it is. It is
a women's movie, and you know women that we don't
usually get focused on, women who are working class, women
who are immigrants, women who are people of color and
Latin specifically. So it's just this movie is doing so

(01:49:40):
much that no other movie of its time is doing,
and still most movies now are not doing so with
that in mind, another perfect transition.

Speaker 4 (01:49:50):
And do you mean the nipple scale. Yes, the only
perfect metric, and it is, of course a scale of
zero to five nipples based on examining the movie through
an intersectional feminist lens.

Speaker 1 (01:50:09):
So you know, given all possible factors to consider, every
potential factor one might consider with regards to this movie
and this rating, I would give it a four.

Speaker 5 (01:50:22):
Hell yeah, yeah, I think, I mean I would go
like four to four and a half. It's I was
really happy to see.

Speaker 3 (01:50:27):
Like especially, I mean just the fact that like women
wrote and directed and produced this and like, yeah, most
of them are women of color like that, I feel like,
I mean, yeah, still unheard of now and.

Speaker 5 (01:50:40):
It's still and it's a classic, like you can't.

Speaker 3 (01:50:42):
Yeah, it's I feel like real women have curves kind
of yet to be topped except by real women have
curves two coming out next year, yeah, pending, and then
and then we also you know, bequeath you the power
to gift your four nipples to any character person, an actor,
production person of your choice. You can distribute in pairs

(01:51:05):
or not, you know, like kind of get creative with it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:09):
Oh, this is so difficult because I want to give
two each to just America and Loupe, you know, just
split them up half and half. But I also want
to give hos Afina two, but I only have four,
you know what. I'm gonna give Loop anti Vedos two
because she passed away rip. I'm going to give hos
Afina Lopez two because she wrote it. She's an icon,

(01:51:32):
and I'm gonna give America for one because she's the
youngest and I think is still working on icon status.
That's how we'll do it.

Speaker 6 (01:51:40):
I think that that was very judicious of you. That
was very diple about it.

Speaker 1 (01:51:45):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:51:46):
I'm gonna go forward to half and I'm gonna docket
the half nipple just for making America for uncomfortable when
she was seventeen. She is a living legend and a child,
and I'm, you know, gonna I'm going to put that
one on Lavu.

Speaker 5 (01:52:01):
No nipples for Luvu for me zero.

Speaker 3 (01:52:03):
But outside of that, I think this movie is so
fucking awesome and it I mean, it was doing so
many things no other movies were doing.

Speaker 5 (01:52:11):
Hosefina Lopez is an.

Speaker 3 (01:52:12):
Incredible writer and I just love every element of this movie.
And I'm now an estella stand for life Hell so
I'll give one nipple to Anna, one to Estella. I'll
give the half to Carmen because she's doing her best.

Speaker 5 (01:52:28):
Yeah, and I.

Speaker 3 (01:52:30):
Have I have love for her. Yeah, but leave Anna
and Nostella alone. I'll give one to Pancha. I loved Pancha.
I feel like super underrated character, and I will give
one to I should give one to Hoefina Lopez, but
I'm going to give it to Hosefina Lopez playing the

(01:52:51):
manager of the burger joint because that is acting.

Speaker 1 (01:52:55):
Scene Steeler, scene Steeler.

Speaker 3 (01:52:58):
Exactly where was a major Oscar snub that year?

Speaker 5 (01:53:03):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:53:03):
And then the last thing I wanted to say was
I guess as of last year, there's a musical being
written around this, so no way. Hopefully people are listening
to this episode from the future and just saw real
women have curves on Broadway. I feel like this would
be such a good musical. Hell yeah, I love musicals,
and I love musical adaptations that aren't already Disney movies,

(01:53:24):
So this seems like something I would love.

Speaker 5 (01:53:27):
Yep, Caitlin, what is your writing for this flim Oh.

Speaker 4 (01:53:32):
This flim gets I would say four and a half.
I was gonna give it a five before I knew
about the the sketchy things that were happening, especially in
that one in that one particular scene where America Ferrera
expressed discomfort and then they deceived her with like yucky.
But aside from that, this is such a wonderful movie. Again,

(01:53:56):
a focus on women, women's stories, women's relationships, positive LATINX
representation that we so rarely see in cinema, especially in
this era. Messages of body positivity, of sex positivity. A
focus on a working class family in Los Angeles, a

(01:54:17):
side of Los Angeles that we don't tend to see
or that tends to be demonized in most media.

Speaker 3 (01:54:24):
Multi generational, which I feel like we haven't like explicitly like,
there's just there's so.

Speaker 4 (01:54:30):
Much and so much is accomplished, so effortlessly, so effortless.
Oh my gosh, I'm so bad at that word.

Speaker 5 (01:54:37):
I think everyone has those words.

Speaker 4 (01:54:39):
It takes a lot of effort for me to say effortlessly.

Speaker 5 (01:54:43):
Wow, there we go.

Speaker 4 (01:54:47):
So much is accomplished in a movie that is less.

Speaker 3 (01:54:51):
Than an hour and a half, which we were texting
about every movie should be less than an hour and
a half long. If this movie can do what it
does in an hour and a half. What's your excuse?

Speaker 5 (01:55:02):
I was about to say something flippant, annoying, and what's
your excuse?

Speaker 4 (01:55:06):
Titanic?

Speaker 5 (01:55:08):
Okay, now that's straight up one exception.

Speaker 4 (01:55:12):
Yeah, I know, I know, I know, I know. I'm
so sorry.

Speaker 5 (01:55:13):
Everyone, who are you giving your nipples to?

Speaker 4 (01:55:16):
I'm going to give my nipples to one to America Ferreira,
one to Lupe ante Veros, one to Ingrid Oliu who
plays Estella. I'll give one to the women who work
in the clothing factory, and then my half nipple I
will give to Los Angeles Public Transportation because.

Speaker 5 (01:55:40):
It's called the Metro preas owner.

Speaker 4 (01:55:45):
But generically it is public transportation. It is, and I
do take it sometimes brave oky.

Speaker 5 (01:55:54):
Pray occasional red line user.

Speaker 3 (01:55:57):
Wow, I love to bully people who don't use enough
public fads day. But that said, you drove me to
the beach yesterday, so.

Speaker 4 (01:56:03):
It makes you think it does? It does indeed, right,
So that is real women have curves.

Speaker 3 (01:56:13):
Mala, thank you so much for being here, and uh yeah,
where can we find you online?

Speaker 5 (01:56:17):
Plug away?

Speaker 1 (01:56:18):
Yes, so I am on all social platforms at Mala, Underscore, Munios,
m U n o Z is the last name, and
you can listen to I have two podcasts out. One
is called Look at Tora Radio, which is the flagship
podcast that I co host with my co producer Yosa,

(01:56:39):
and then my solo show, Mari Juanetta, a podcast for potheads.
And we're on Apple, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all the usual places.

Speaker 5 (01:56:48):
Hell yeah, also your stand up fucking rules.

Speaker 1 (01:56:51):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 4 (01:56:53):
Yes, and then you can follow us on Twitter and
Instagram at Bechdel Cast. You can subscribe to our Matreon
at Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, which gives you
two bonus episodes every month, along with access to the
back catalog of over one hundred bonus episodes all and

(01:57:15):
that is all for five dollars a month.

Speaker 3 (01:57:18):
Oh can you imagine? Can you imagine? It's actually sometimes I.

Speaker 5 (01:57:24):
Do reflect on the value and just I'm like, Wow,
what a deal, what a steal? Whatere? Are we? Okay? Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:57:31):
You can also get our march at teapublic dot com
slash the Bechdel Cast if you are so inclined. And
with that, I mean I think we should mention we've
been shirtless.

Speaker 5 (01:57:42):
Yeah. The last half of the episode, I mean, am.

Speaker 4 (01:57:45):
I gonna put my clothes back on.

Speaker 5 (01:57:47):
We'll see Carmen deal with it all right.

Speaker 4 (01:57:50):
Bye bye bye