Showgirls with Crystal

This week, showgirls Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Crystal paint their fingernails and discuss Showgirls!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
The questions asked if movies have women and them all
their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism?
It's the patriarchy, Zeph and bast start changing it with
the Bechdel Cast.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Hey Jamie Darlin, Hey Caitlin Darlin, will you paint my
nails for me?

Speaker 3 (00:25):
I don't know. Do you like looking like cheap trash?
Because if so, I guess I'll do it. Me and
my awesome boobs that everyone loves.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
Well, my boobs are awesome too.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Mavie, take me body dysmorphia again again? Oh my gosh,
it's not fair. How do boobs look like that? Anyways?
I think my brain. I think my takeaway from watching
show Girls is wow, I think my boobs are weird?

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Oh, Jamie or boobs? That's not true?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Is that the lesson of the movie.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yes, it's it's a brilliant to attire about. Boom.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Welcome to the back Deellcast. Look we've got we've got
Gina gersha on and yes, she's kissing ladies again. It's
a time honored Gina gershon observation on this show, but
this time in a very different movie.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Yes, indeed, because today is our Showgirls episode often requested. Hello,
I'm I'm Showgirls number one. Caitlin Toronte, I'm show Girls
number two.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, I work at the Cheetah. My name's Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes, this is a highly
requested episode. We've been getting requests for this since the
show began.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
Yeah, for some reason, we did Starship Troopers and Basic
Instinct before this. This is our third. This is kind
of wild because I don't think that we often. I'm
trying to think of a director that has appeared on
the show three different times. I feel like for Hoven,
for some reason, he pops up on this show quite
a bit.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, there have been a few, but Paul is really
showing up.

Speaker 3 (02:11):
You will about Paul. He really generates a discussion he does,
and I love that about Paul.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
All right, all that didn't pass the Bechdel tests, But no,
what even is that, Jamie?

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Well. The Bechdel Test is a media metric created by
queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test.
Many versions of this test. It was originally created as
a bit for a comic strip that Alison Bechdel wrote,
but now it's sort of used as a metric for
us specifically to use. Here's the one we use. Our

(02:46):
version of the Bechdel test requires that there be two characters.
Uh of, oh my god, all right, there would be
two characters. Yeah, two characters of a marginalized gender with
names that speak to each other about something other than
a man, for two lines of dialogue or more. Not

(03:07):
a perfect metric, which you know because it Showgirls passes
it almost.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Immediately, And so many of the conversations that pass during
this movie are about fingernails. It's like, yes, it's almost
as well chips.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
I love the chips.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Oh sure, dog food, doggy chow dog food.

Speaker 3 (03:26):
Okay, that was relatable for me. I used to eat
dog food on stage all the time.

Speaker 1 (03:29):
That's right. Wow, you really are a showgirl.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
I am the showiest girl. I really loved the chip car.
I mean, there's so many iconic exchanges in this movie.
But yeah, the like giggling and being like did you
eat the chips? I was like, Wow, I should do
that more.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, do you want to come over and replicate that
exact conversation with me? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Wake you up and be like where's the chips?

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Anyway? So we use the Bechdel test as a jumping
off point for a large conversation because we hear on
the Bechdel Cast examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens,
and today is no different, and the movie is Showgirls.
And the guest, oh have today a legend? You've seen

(04:16):
them on Rue Paul's Drag Race UK season one. They
host the podcast The Things That Made Me Queer? It's
Crystal Hello, Hi.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
Oh my god. I really enjoyed that intro. So many
things to say. Already we're already all completely flam mixed
about how we're going to manage talking about this movie.
I can tell.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
It's so hard. It's interesting. I feel like there's certain
movies where depending on like you just have to like
take the temp on how everyone else feels about it
before you can speak your mind.

Speaker 4 (04:51):
Well, people feel a lot of ways about this movie,
so they really do many opinions to choose from.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, let's not to put you on the spot, but
let's start with yours. What's your perfect great, what's your
history with show Girls?

Speaker 4 (05:09):
Okay, I have to be honest and say I think
this is this has at one point in my life
been my favorite movie. So it is it has occupied
that place for me, and it's probably the movie I've
spent I've watched the most times in my life. Yeah,
which is a lot to say.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
So this is your Titanic for us, basically, uh.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
Huh, Yeah, Titanic, which I've seen one time.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
What Yeah, blasphemy shocking.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
Yeah, And you guys always reference Titanic. I'm like, who
are they talking about. I don't even know who these
characters are, Crystal, I know, Well, now I've prepared to
hear me reference chips and nails a lot because I
could probably quote this entire movie from start to finish,
which I don't think is like healthy for me, but
it is where we're at. I saw this movie probably

(05:56):
when I was like twelve or thirteen with like when
I was still in the claw and had like a
straight best friend, and he would he probably was like
showing me it on his parents' TV after midnight, like
it was that kind of vibe. I don't really remember
it from that period, but I know I knew I
saw it in that kind of era. And then I
watched it again in my early twenties with my then

(06:18):
boyfriend who was like, you need to watch show Girls.
It's a camp masterpiece. And from then it's basically been
in my life in multiple different ways up until the
point where I'm now a drag artist called Crystal who
dresses like a slot on stage. So it's really taken
me places.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
So is you a show girl?

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Is your stage name based on or inspired by Crystal
from this movie?

Speaker 4 (06:42):
It's definitely partially responsible, I would say. The other reason
is when I started doing drag, I was working for Swarovsky.
I ever heard of it, so it just felt like
it felt like a meeting of worlds because yeah, it
was a bizarre job selling crystals to people, and uh,

(07:06):
it just felt like the right the right name for
me at the time that I personally want.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
To come Crystal, okay, hang on.

Speaker 4 (07:15):
Unlike Nomi, I do want people to think I'm a whrror.
So I felt like the name Crystal was really gonna
help them get to that point a lot faster.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
I just love Gina Gershan so much.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
I know incredible She's in.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
I feel like she's in on it and not like
not everyone is. She may be the only person who
appears to be in on it absolutely, which is wild
because Kyle McLachlan is in this movie and I feel
like he's always in on it, But by his own account,
he was not in.

Speaker 4 (07:45):
He didn't know.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Did he look at them? Did he see how they
did his hair? But his hair was wild?

Speaker 4 (07:52):
Yes, incredible. The only other thing I would say about
it is that since it being my favorite movie in
my twenties and me thinking it was the greatest thing
that it ever been made, I have since reevaluated things
and I'll see it as a very problematic movie, which
I have a complicated relationship with, sure, and that's I
think probably what we're gonna spend the next hour talking about.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Wow, Oh you think it's only going to be an hour,
I think again, Jamie, what is your history slash relationship
with Showgirls?

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Shockingly sparse? I had never seen this movie all the
way through. I do. I feel like I've mentioned a
few different movies on most memorably Requiem movies I caught
my dad watching at night. Requiem was the most memorable
of them, because that movie is horrific. But I do

(08:45):
remember counting and watching show Girls once and being like
ding Dong daughter alert and he was like, actually, I
think he tried to do the the now very popular
reclaiming argument to justify why he was watching it. He's like,
you know, people came down pretty hard on this movie
when it came out, myself included. But now that I'm

(09:06):
sitting with it, I think it makes some interesting points.
I was like, all right, all right, might say you're
not technically wrong, but I have never really sat and
like watched the whole thing. And then I ended up
watching it twice all the way through it because I
feel like, for this movie especially, you need a fun

(09:28):
watch and then you need a critical watch because you
just need to let it wash over you. And I
totally like watching it. Now, I don't know. I mean,
I liked it a lot. I want to go to
rowdy screening of this, Like it is so problematic in
so many ways. We're going to talk about it. It's
just but it's so like the camp levels are just

(09:48):
like off the chart. There's so much And this is
true of this writer always, But the guy who wrote
this movie, I'm just like, what does he think? Women
talk like it?

Speaker 4 (10:01):
Ships?

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Ships, the chips, dog food.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
So weird, and every other conversation is you're a whore. No,
I'm not, you're a whore.

Speaker 4 (10:13):
I used to play a drinking game with this movie,
where you would drink every time someone mentioned nails being
pushed down the stairs or accused Nomi of being a hooker,
and you were drunk within the first five minutes of
the movie.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
It was it's really it's it's like, it's so the
water is so hot that it's cold again. There's just
like everything that happens is problematic, and you're just like
and it's so like sincerely done, and I just I
don't know. I am baffled by it. I'm fascinated by it.
I would like to see a rowdy screening of it.

(10:45):
And I also like, don't really I was reading through
the God so much has been written about this movie.
I was reading through a fraction of it, and I
don't necessarily came down on the like which this is.
I think we encountered this with Starship Troops as well,
which is which is obviously trying to be satire. But
there's like this big argument that, like, this movie is

(11:07):
actually good and it's playing six D chess and I
don't believe that. But I think that's all right. I
think Gina Gershon somehow is the only person in the
entire production who knows what's going on. I don't even
think Paul Verhoven knows what movie he's making, But for
some reason, Gina Gershon bes and I cele it.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Rate that she reads a script and she knows what's up.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
I know, just unbelievable and yeah, there's done stuff and
this is it that's horrific and reading the that I
mean this, it's so unfair that this tanked Elizabeth Berkeley's career.
I think that was like one of my big takeaways.
And I mean, the way that this movie handles raised
holy shit. But we'll get there. Yes, Caitlin, what's your

(11:53):
history with show Girls?

Speaker 1 (11:55):
I similarly have a very sparse history. I think about
it wrong with us, I don't know. Oh about a
year ago, I was like, I can't believe I've never
seen Showgirls. I am going to watch it. And I
thought that I in that sitting watched the first half
of the movie and then got sidetracked and then forgot

(12:15):
to go back to it. And then when I started
prepping for this episode, and I was like, oh, I've
already seen the first half, so you know, it's I
know what it's about. Turns out I had only watched
the first ten minutes, but so much happens in that
first ten minutes that it felt like an hour's worth
of cinema.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Nomi is living. Yeah, she's living on turbo mode all
the time.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
I would describe her performance in every scene as thrashing.
She's just doing a lot of thrashing about I.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Want to have sex in a pool like that. She
hates cars.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
She will if there's a car in a scene with her,
she's gonna hit it.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yes, yeah, ooh, that didn't occur to me.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
She does a lot of storming out. The way she
enters and exits scenes is just like it's something to behold.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
She kind of reminds me of her entrances. Do you
remember that scene in I Frankenstein where I Frankenstein like
there's a door available, but he crashes through the window
instead because he's just dramatic.

Speaker 4 (13:27):
Me Malone as kool aid Man exactly.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
It's so great and I really enjoyed, like I don't know,
I really enjoyed reading about how reclaimed and revered know
me is and that there's literally I didn't have time
to watch it, but there's a whole documentary called You
Don't Know Me.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
It's great, really yeah, the best really great. This is
also sadly like I knew how conflicted I felt about
this movie, so I consumed so much additional media in
the past week about this movie, and it hasn't helped.
But I now know far more than anyone needs to

(14:07):
know about Showgirls.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
So well, any fun facts I want to share, by
all means.

Speaker 4 (14:13):
I'll try and keep them to like a minimum, because
otherwise we'll be here a while.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Bring it, baby, Well, shall I do the recap and
please we'll go from there. Let's actually take a quick
break first and then come back for the recap twist. Okay,
the recap of show Girls. And before I begin, I

(14:41):
will place a trigger warning for something that happens at
the end of the movie. Trigger warning for rape and
sexual assault. Okay, we meet Nomi. That's Elizabeth Berkeley. Also
apologies in advance if I call her Elizabeth her. I
feel like I'm going to and it's on accident.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
I oh, I do want I want that alternate Universe movie,
though I too want to see that one.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
I just the names are too similar and I do
think I will mix them up. But Elizabeth Berkley plays
no Me Malone. We see her as she's hitchhiking to
Las Vegas. Ever heard of it?

Speaker 4 (15:23):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (15:24):
She gets a ride from this guy, Jeff. She's like,
I'm gonna go to Vegas to be a dancer. He
is very sleazy. He says he's going to help her
get a job, but he ends up taking off with
her suitcase, so now she only has the clothes on
her back. She's obviously very upset, and this is when

(15:44):
she meets Molly played by Gina Rivera, who sees no
Me in distress and offers her adopt her.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Question her, Yeah, pretty wild.

Speaker 4 (15:57):
When you see a girl in a leopard print to
throw up and almost get hit by a car, you
think she should move in with me?

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yes, sat mom, truly I never in a million years
thought that Jeff would return.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
Jeff comes back.

Speaker 3 (16:15):
Oh yeah, no, bow unbowed with this movie. Things you
didn't want to resolve, you didn't know you wanted resolved
are resolved.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Oh you thought there was going to be a loose
end with Jeff.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah right, No, we're gonna cut back to Jeff. Jeff's
getting his.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
Yeah, I really hope the sequel, had there been one,
would have opened with them driving into La and the
car is still swerving all over the road.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Oh, Crystal, I've got news for you. There is a
sequel to this movie.

Speaker 4 (16:44):
Oh I know, okay, but but it's a different story
that sequel.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, it doesn't follow know me. It follows Penny.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
What it follows Penny?

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (16:55):
Oh, and the actor who plays Penny in the first
movie reprises her role and wrote, directed, and edited the movie.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
I believe my god, it's like that Selene Dion biopic.
I really want to watch.

Speaker 4 (17:09):
Oh, oh, I do you recommend that? Actually?

Speaker 3 (17:12):
Have you seen it?

Speaker 4 (17:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (17:14):
I want to see it so bad.

Speaker 4 (17:15):
It made me cry twice.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
What's that movie that, at the time of this recording
is in theaters. It probably will have left by the
time this episode comes out. But it's the movie that
Selene Dion plays herself in, and it's about Oh, I
think a woman loses her boyfriend, Like, her boyfriend dies
but she still has his or someone something. There's a

(17:37):
phone number and another guy she texts killing her boyfriend
talking phone number. There's a movie. Okay, it's a woman
who her boyfriend dies and she texts his phone number
to be like I miss you, and another guy ends
up with that phone number like a year or so later,

(17:57):
and so he's getting all these text messages being like
she's saying like I miss you, I'm gonna go to
our special spot. And so then he shows up and
then they meet and then they fall in love, and
Celine Dion plays his like his mom, I don't know,
I'm filling in the blanks. This is a real dream
you had, This is a real movie. I swear it,

(18:21):
and I think we should cover it on the show.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
I think we should too. Selite, I don't know why
why are we talking about selenein Oh because I derailed.
He was in Montreal the other day.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Uh huh brag.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
So we were like, for every year wrong about Torrisha,
we would like try to put like a local hero
over the like interes slide, and so we're like, let's
put on Celine Dion And I was like, oh, probably
that's the most obvious Canadian to pick. Everyone's probably sick
of like it's like, you know, doing a show and
bosson and putting Mark Wahlberg on the screen. Boy was

(18:54):
I wrong?

Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah, sick of Celen.

Speaker 3 (18:57):
No, they love her. They were like, we they love her.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
I was also in Montreal last week and I went
to a karaoke bar and it was a very Francophone
karaoke bar and it was just back to back Celine
Dion songs.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
I love that. They love her so much. I thought
it was going to be a hack, but I was like, no,
they one person stood a like wow, what a wild
well shout out to Selene Dion. For some reason, she
wouldn't be out of place in this movie.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
No, no, I mean it's Vegas.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
I mean she's had a residency.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (19:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Anyway, So back to Showgirls, I guess. Okay, so we've
met Nomi. She meets Mollie, who offers her a place
to crash. We cut to six weeks later, Nomi is
still living with Mollie. Nomi goes with Molly to work.
Mollie works in the wardrobe department for a show called Goddess,

(19:57):
which is a I guess Broadway style show. There's a
lot of dance, there's also a lot of nudity, and
Nomi is watching it and she loves it, and she
feels inspired because of all the dancing, and she wants
to be a dancer in this type of show.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
Have you ever been to one of these shows in Vegas?

Speaker 1 (20:18):
No, I have tell us.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
It was called Bite and it was vampire themed.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
Oh oh my god.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
Otherwise it was essentially the same. There were a lot
of sexy, topless ladies and there was problematic scenes. They
used a lot of like eighties hair rock. It was
a lot of like, you know, middle aged Midwestern couples
there to like feel a little bit sexy with each
other while they were watching like a vampire lady without

(20:50):
a top. One called Ice doing Foreigner cold as Ice got.

Speaker 3 (20:55):
You gotta mix you gotta mix things up. Marriage is
a long.

Speaker 4 (21:01):
So all that is to say is these shows are real,
and it's confusing to me that someone would aspire to
like the lead in one like that that could be
the goal of your career because I feel like it's
I feel like we should all have a little bit
higher aspirations than that.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
That was My next question was, like, is like headlining
a show like this a huge, gigantic, like best thing
in Vegas the way that it's presented.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
No, I don't think so, But I guess maybe in
this world, yes, Like maybe I guess they're big circ
Desilay shows, right.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Mm hmm, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
Maybe in this world it's like a circ Deslay level show.
But even that doesn't have a headliner right.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Now, so I'm not sure.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
Anyway, I you know, Nomi wants to be the star
of a show like this, and good for her.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
True, true, that's what I say.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Ramon baby exactly.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
The current star of the Goddess show is Crystal Connors
played by Gina Gershaan, who Meetsnmi and immediately insults her
when she tells Crystal that she works at Cheetah's and
Crystal is like, that's not real dancing, and Nomi is like,

(22:18):
you don't know shit, and she storms off as she
is wont to do.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
I love her. She's so dramatic.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
Your friend has nice nails.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Oh, there's like a look that comes over Elizabeth Berkeley's
face whenever she's about to storm away. I think it's
genuinely very good where you can just tell them like, oh, oh,
Nomi's about to blo out, like.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
It's yeah, it's great it is. Then Nomi and Molly
go to a club and one of the bouncers goes
up to know me and starts dancing with her. The
dance moves they're doing they're erratic, there, peculiar, and he's like,

(23:06):
you're not very good at dancing, but you've got potential
and I could teach you. And she doesn't like this,
so she kicks him in the nuts.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
Oh right, which god, so much happens in this movie.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
Right, And this instigates a big brawl at the club
and Nomi gets arrested, but then gets bailed out the
next day by the bouncer and he continues on this
like I could train you, I could teach you, but
she rejects him again. Also, we will eventually learn his

(23:40):
name is James. He's played by Glenn Plummer, but you
don't learn his name for a while. And I think
you only hear it on screen like once or twice,
maybe so, but that's James. Then we finally see Nomi
at work. She is a dancer at a strip club

(24:02):
called Cheetahs. We meet some of her colleagues like this woman,
Henrietta and Penny. We also meet her boss, Al he's
a very sleazy guy. He is also played by one
of the Fortelli brothers from the Goonies.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Oh my god, Yeah, Wow, twist.

Speaker 1 (24:23):
That night, Crystal Connors comes into the club with her
boyfriend Slash. Their relationship is maybe unclear, but his name
is Zach Carrey. That's Kyle McLaughlin. He is the entertainment
director of the hotel where the Goddess show is at.

(24:47):
The hotel is called I think the Stardust.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
And he has bangs. I feel that Banks should be
a separate cast member. Yeah, it's weird that they're not
credited as.

Speaker 1 (24:59):
Such, and so he's got like a side part and
the bangs are like swooped over. Sometimes they're in his eyes,
sometimes not proto Bieber kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (25:10):
I have to admit that one of the few things
I remember about watching this as a preteen was finding
colmagloughlin hot. I mean, it's Colmagloughlin's still, but even with
the hair, and essentially because of the hair.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yeah, it's the hair has angles. I will say, the
hair does have angles.

Speaker 4 (25:29):
It looks so clean constantly as well, it's really shiny's.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
He's being groomed. He it's also hair that's quite similar
to Jack Dawson.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
It's true.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
Think about that.

Speaker 3 (25:42):
It's true. It's a it's it's a haircut that takes
place out of time.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah, okay, So they so, Zach and Crystal go to
Cheetahs to watch No Me dance or I don't know
if they go specifically because she's there, but they show
up in Know Me as there dancing, and then they
hire her to give Zach a private lap dance while

(26:07):
Crystal watches, and.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
They basically invented the phrase, hey, we saw you from
across the bar, and we really like your vibe.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
The vibe flailing.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
Around, loved it when you licked that pole.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
We love it when you thrash, and please thrash on me,
And that's exactly what she does, and Zach and Crystal
they love it. Question Mark not really sure, but Zach comes,
he does come.

Speaker 4 (26:39):
Yes, who wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Who wouldn't had to have been a painful scene for him, right,
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Hard to say, but James the bouncer is also at
the club because he is perpetually stalking No Me and
leering at her and things like that. Then James shows
up at Nomi's house on his bullshit again, being like,

(27:08):
you have so much natural talent as a dancer, let
me teach you, and then he also implies that she
shouldn't be wasting her talent quote unquote by being a stripper,
and she rightfully tells him to fuck off.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Right, she's very morally I mean, then this movie is
like attempt at a morality tale gets very very mercanti
sex work and confusing, Yes, for sure, and our girl
Nomi seems to change her mind about what her version
of morality is every twenty five seconds, which doesn't help.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
It's true. Yeah, That's the big discussion point for me
later on is the movie's attitude towards sex work. But
will get there.

Speaker 3 (27:53):
It really is just like two guys feeling their way around.

Speaker 4 (27:56):
In the dark, and you're just like yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
And then every interview there like, no, we went to
Vegas and we talked to like twenty people.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
We went to Vegas and hired hookers.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
As research, and they thought the script was great. I
was like, I don't know, Like I none of these
real life sex workers they allegedly talked to ever seemed
to come out of the woodwork, almost like they're making
it up.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
Yeah right, I guess what. The thing to remember the
whole way through is whenever Nomi's upset that someone's just
called her a whore or a hooker or whatever they've
called her. It's because she's trying to leave that life behind,
and which is the reveal at the end of the
movie right right, spoiler alert. But so it kind of
makes sense a bit for that character. But it's almost

(28:46):
like the movie is no me deciding whether or not
she like how much she's willing to sell. I think
that is kind of an interesting idea. Sooner or later,
you're gonna have to sell it, which is like one
of the first lines in and I think that rings
true for all of us.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
I mean, we're selling it right now.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Right now speaking, but subscribe to our Patreon. It's really
fun over there.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, by some merch Alfred Molina feminist icon merch. You
need it.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Our selling is so embarrassing, that's my morality.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Tell okay. So, at work at Cheetahs, a guy shows
up to Tellnmi that they are holding auditions for the
show Goddess the following morning and that she should come
and audition. So she goes, but the producer, Tony Moss,

(29:45):
is an asshole, and it seems like she blows the audition.
So she confronts Crystal, being like, you got me this audition,
didn't you like? This was your doing? And Crystal is
like yeah, I like the way you dance, and Noomi
is like, well, I hate you, and then she storms
off again. Then she bumps into James and he brings

(30:10):
her to his house to show her some choreography that
he's working on. He's like, I wrote this for you
because I'm trying to put a show together with you
and some other dancers. So he starts teaching her the choreography,
which immediately leads to them making out and they almost
have sex. The scene is so wild. She's like, we

(30:33):
can't I have my period and then he's like yeah, right,
I don't believe you. And then she's like check and
so he puts his hands down her pants and confirms
that she does have her period, and then she's like okay, bye, and.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
She's like I'm out of here. It's like, wow, that's
I mean, there's so many ways to have the last word,
and this is one of them. I kind of liked
that scene. She's so wild, And there's the way that
this reader writes about periods. It's so bizarre.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
It never occurred to me the connection between this and
Romey and Michelle where she says, sorry, I cut my
foot earlier and my shoe is filling up with blood.
It's not a dissimilar way to end a conversation. If
you say you're bleeding, you might get out of that
awkward conversation.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
She does something similar with her boss, I think maybe
in a scene that happens before this, but Al is like,
where were you last night? And she was like, I
was having my period and then he's like, oh, well, okay.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
He goes full like male gym teacher about it, and
which is great, but then it's I don't know, there's
just like lines in this movie. It's delightful. They just
keep going and you're like, why is this line still going?
And she's like, I had my period. You wouldn't want
me to get blood all over everything, would you.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
You're like, know me, why is a woman bleeding so scary?

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Men? I well, I mean to the stocky guys credit
question mark, He's like, I've got towels. I'm like, yeah,
that really is all that you need?

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Yeah? Fair anyway, So No Me gets a call from
the producer Tony Moss saying that she has been cast
in the Goddess show so she quits her job at Cheetah's.
She goes to tell James the good news because I
guess they're friends now, but he has another woman over Penny,

(32:41):
who would go on to star in the sequel, and
he's telling her like, oh, I want you and my
show now and know me's I guess jealous, and she
basically storms off again. Then she goes to give her
like name and background info to the production for like

(33:05):
employment records, but she's vague and she doesn't seem to
know her Social Security number, and it's possible that she's
hiding something about her past.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
Terrific Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Then she starts training and learning the choreography for the show.
She bumps into Zach aka Kyle McLaughlin and he's like, wow,
you look beautiful, and so there's like some flirtation brewing there,
and then her first show is that night because she

(33:39):
somehow learned all the choreography in a single day, and.

Speaker 3 (33:43):
She's dancing her ass off. I love the dance scenes
in this movie. Even when they're confusing, they're very impressive.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
What do you think is the narrative of the show? Goddess?
Question number one? Question number two? Does it pass? The
Bechdel Test.

Speaker 4 (34:02):
I have always imagined that Goddess is like topless Fantasia,
where they're just little vignettes.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
I like it.

Speaker 4 (34:08):
About different goddesses and but like sexy.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, there's a motorcycle goddess.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
You've got them. Yeah, the motorcycle rape dance scene doesn't
really fit for the title of the show.

Speaker 3 (34:23):
Yeah, it was not getting Goddess energy from that particular selection.
I'm wondering. So I know that there's like rocky horror
style performances of this show, and now I really want
to see them, because this is a show I would
like to see live. I feel like it's almost like,
why isn't there in Vegas like the show Girl's Experience,

(34:45):
Like there's an actual coyote ugly barn. Oh you know,
I feel like you should have access to Goddess.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
You're so right, absolutely, it would destroy Well, yeah, let's
get to work on it together.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
Okay, Okay.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
So then so Nomi has her first show, it goes well,
Zach sends her flowers, and then James shows up after
the show and he's like, I still want you to
be in my show. Who cares if I'm having sex
with other people? And she's likeugh, bye again and.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
He'll be back again again.

Speaker 4 (35:24):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Then Crystal takes Nomi to lunch. This is where they
talk about eating doggy chow. The conversation is, I don't
know if any point of this movie is actually horny.
It the level of horniness, I guess is open to
interpretation in this movie. But there's like sexual tension between them. Yes,

(35:49):
they're having a conversation that's quite Again, the issue with
this whole movie is swarfy getting into like swarf territory,
and one example this conversation, the point is like we're
establishing a lot of tension between them. They almost make out,
but then they don't, and Crystal is like, we're all

(36:11):
whores and so are you, and Noami's like fuck you
and she storms off again. And then Nomi gets offered
this gig to dance on a yacht at a boat convention,
and Mollie, who has kind of dropped out of the movie,

(36:32):
reappears and she's like, don't do it, and Nomi realizes
why because she discovers that she is expected to have
sex with like one of the casino's high rollers. So
she says fuck you and she storms off as she
always does, and then she tells Zach about this. Zach

(36:54):
pretends to be appalled, but the guy who sort of
orchestrated this whole thing, this guy Phil, does not actually
get in trouble. It seems like this is very par
for the course for like them, for lack of a
better term, like pimping out the performers of this show.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Yeah, and like one of the many times where Kyle
McLaughlin's character acts like shocked by something that he obviously
knows exactly what's going on and is like actively working
to uphold it. It's one of the parts of the
movie that actually like works pretty well.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah, because this happens. This happens in a different capacity
later on, which we'll get to.

Speaker 4 (37:32):
This is also the first time we hear the reference
to Caesar singing, which right becomes a stand in for
are you willing to sell your body? Which I also
really like as a euphemism because Kyle says it later.
Kyle magloughlin says it later We're Gonna Take You, and
hear Caesar sing, And then at the end of the
movie she does hear Caesar sing and it's like, oh,

(37:52):
this is this is it? It's happening.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, there's parts that are good. There's no they really
close every loop, whether you like it or not.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
They do anyway, that's what I call sex.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Now Caesar singing, Yeah, do you want to?

Speaker 4 (38:08):
Do you want to hear Caesar sing tonight? Or yeah?

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Okay. So then Nomi goes home with Zach and they
have sex in his pool, which is once again mostly
just know me thrashing and flailing around.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
Also, at some point, Gnmi has gone to James's show
that he originally wanted her to be a part of
the audience hates it, even though it seems like it's
a fine show when people are doing a fine job,
but like the audience is like, boo, you suck.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
It's so there's it was like, what happened right before
she got here? Like yeah, right, yeah, did he throw
things at them?

Speaker 4 (38:51):
It's confusing how this show is different to Goddess.

Speaker 1 (38:55):
Right, I don't know. And then James is like, by
the way, Penny is gregnant and.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
Go get me a beer, bitch, And then is like, anyways,
she's pregnant and I gave up on my dreams and
that's fine.

Speaker 4 (39:13):
You're just like dances like a truck.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
That's a good insult. And also she was dancing fine,
It's just.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
Every choice in this movie is so bizarre. Okay, So
then Crystal's understudy gets injured during the show because of
this rivalry between two of the performers, which we don't
really know why that's happening, but this one performer causes
another one to get injured. So they hold auditions to

(39:46):
cast a new understudy for Crystal, and Nomi gets the part,
but Crystal figures out that me and Zach had sex
slash they heard Caesar sing, because that's again a brilliant euphemism,
and Crystal does not like this. She seems jealous or

(40:10):
you know, there's unclear. But the next thing, Nomi knows
she does not have the understudy part anymore. But Nomi
is still performing in the show and her like rivalry
frenemie thing with Crystal continues to escalate to the point
where Nomi pushes Crystal down the stairs and she's badly injured,

(40:33):
and the producers are freaking out because Crystal is the
star and what if people don't come to the show
because Crystal isn't there, But they take a gamble and
put Nomi in.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
The leading role big Phantom of the Opera energy to this.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Oh that's right.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Except well, there's so I can't wait to talk about,
like the dynamic between those two characters, because we've seen
this exact dynamic and so many cautionary shows his tails,
and I just want to lay them all out. It's
so such a thing anyways. But yes, now she is
the star, yep.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
But Mollie is like, no me, you pushed her, didn't you?
And know Me is like tee no. And Molly is
very suspicious until she's not anymore for reason what reasons?

Speaker 4 (41:25):
Because Mollie is a kind and trusting person.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
I mean he bends over backwards so many times to
accommodate No Me.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Also at this point, like me, I think we're too
assume as making pretty good money and still has not
moved out right, get a life, know me? Seriously, you're
imposing mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
There's only one bed in that trailer.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
Yeah, and it's a single and there aren't enough chips
to go around between the two of them. Okay, So
well they end up at the same party, Molly and
No Me, and Nomi introduces Molly to this musician guy
named Andrew Carver, whose name has like come up throughout

(42:11):
the movie prior to this, but now he's in Vegas
to perform, and Molly is a big fan of Andrew Carver.
But then, and I'll place another trigger warning here for
sexual violence and rape. But Andrew Carver and his cronies
gang rape Mollie and she is hospitalized. Nomi goes to

(42:32):
call the police, but Zach is like, don't do it, Polly. Yeah,
I know that your real name is Pollyann Costello, and
that your father killed your mother and then killed himself,
and you ran away from foster care, and then you've
been arrested several times for soliciting sex, in possession of

(42:54):
crack cocaine and assault with a deadly weapon. So much,
and I have all this on you, Polly, And Gnomi
is like, who cares about all that? What about my friend?
But Zach is more concerned about protecting Andrew Carver's reputation.
Sonmi takes matters into her own hands. She goes and

(43:16):
beats the shit out of Andrew Carver.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
It's showtime.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Then she pays Molly a visit in the hospital to
like tell her what she did for her. Uh, and
then she also pays Crystal a visit, and Crystal is like,
I know why you pushed me. I did the same
thing to get where I'm at now, So there's no
hard feelings between them, and then they make out for

(43:44):
a little bit.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Such an intense kiss, Yes.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
So intense. I like, I know that the kiss is legendary.
But Crystal is so fine when pushed down a flight
of stairs. She's like, it's it happens to every performer.
So I'm like, does it though?

Speaker 1 (44:04):
You reach a certain age and you get pushed down
the stairs and don't even worry about it because I
got a huge settlement.

Speaker 4 (44:11):
There's this thing where basically any character that Nomi interacts
with becomes completely obsessed with her. And yeah, you can.
You can get pushed down the stairs by her, and
you're still on team Nomi in this world so wild,
it doesn't matter what she does.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
It's true.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
Yes, you just threw up on my car. Time to
move in, You push me down the stairs, have about
a big kiss.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
She can do no wrong.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Oh you need me in the nuts, let me bail
you out of jail.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
Absolutely, I forgot about that one.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
Wow, it's wild. Okay, So then Nomi has you know,
tied up her loose ends, and then she hitchhikes out
of Vegas and she gets a ride from the same
guy that she got a ride from at the beginning,
this guy Jeff, who doesn't recognize her at first because
she's incognito mode, but then.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
She's moon mode.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
Must be a different hot, tall, blonde lady and a
leopard print talk, right, but her leopard print top from
from the beginning, it's become like sheeny, so it's like
she's got money now, so he couldn't have recognized her sunglasses.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Too, sunglasses. She takes off her sunglasses and he's like,
oh my god, it's you. And she's like, give me
my fucking suitcase. And then it's implied that she's headed
to Los Angeles. Ever heard of it?

Speaker 3 (45:37):
Who? In the end, incredible who?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
So that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and
we'll come back to discuss.

Speaker 3 (45:52):
And we're back.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
Okay, where to start, Crystal?

Speaker 3 (45:58):
What jumps out to you? Where would you like to start?

Speaker 4 (46:00):
Wow? Wow, that is a big question.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
Yeah, besides everything out Yeah cool, Well, I think I'm
going to throw it to that documentary you mentioned earlier,
which is you don't know me, which says that there
are three different ways to watch this movie, which is
it's a piece of shit, it's a masterpiece, or it's
a masterpiece of shit.

Speaker 4 (46:20):
And I think that third category is where I've also landed,
where there is so much to love about it, so
much that is completely baffling, and there's so much that's deeply,
deeply wrong, And to enjoy this movie you have to
accept kind of all of those things at once and

(46:40):
like cherry pick the parts you love and like be
critical of the parts you don't. You mentioned wanting to
see this live, and as a gay man and a
drag artist, I've had the pleasure of seeing this live
many many times. What I would say is, for an example,
often when drag productions of this movie are done, they'll
cut out the rape scene because it's so incongruous with

(47:01):
the camp ness of the rest of the movie.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
I very much prefer.

Speaker 4 (47:06):
That, yeah, that happens, or I've seen it where they've
cut it and then brought out a great stripper to
like give a great stripperroutine. We're like, we're gonna spend
this next three minutes just being like, look, how great
live sex work is awesome, Like, there's lots of fun
ways to do it, but that isn't. It's almost like
it feels a bit like cheating to pretend that that
scene isn't in the movie, because it was alviously very

(47:28):
intentional and it's part of the of the narrative that
they're really trying to tell about this movie, which is like,
you know, how far are you willing to go for
success and for fame and like what is the cost
of the American dream?

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Right?

Speaker 4 (47:42):
You almost have to decide if you're gonna watch if
you're going to watch the fun version of Showgirls or
a you're going to watch the serious version of Showgirls.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
Right.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
So, at the time when this movie came out, it
was horribly received, tanked at the box office, it was
poorly reviewed. Kyle McLaughlin saw the movie and he's like,
this absolutely sucks.

Speaker 3 (48:01):
Ruined Elizabeth Barkley's career completely.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yes. Joe Estrahouse, who wrote the screenplay, was like, mistakes
were made. Paul Verhoven was like, damn, I guess I
made a bad movie. But he also like embraced that.
People started appreciating it as like camp trash and he
like went to the Razzies Awards and accepted his Razzie

(48:27):
for Worst Director.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Which is like, sure, I guess, sure, yeah, might as
well also camp because.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Like, I don't know exactly the kind of trajectory of
like critics being like this sucks, but then a bunch
of audiences being like, but it's so bad, it's good
and it's fun and the dancing and you know that
kind of stuff. Because at some point it achieved, you know,
the cult status that it still has. And then also

(48:56):
at some point there were a lot of people who
kind of re evaluated this movie and said it's actually
brilliant satire and that satire was intentional obviously, and then.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Right, there's Paul Verhoeven movies. You can make that argument
for it, just not this one.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Just not this one. But I also, like, I see
that to some extent, because this is a movie about
how a place like Vegas and an industry like the
entertainment industry commodifies people, and it commodifies sexuality and particularly
women's sexuality and women's bodies, and it sells it as

(49:36):
a product. And there's also like a hierarchical element to
that where some people are quote unquote more valuable as
a commodity than others because you have these stars like
Crystal and like that guy Andrew Carver who make the
venues a lot of money and the producers a lot

(49:57):
of money, and so they have to be protected, but
they can also be replaceable to some extent because they
are treated as a commodity, which is like I think
best demonstrated. There's a few different scenes that really clearly
demonstrate this. I'll cite to in particular. It's like parallel scenes. Basically,
there's one scene at the beginning of the movie with

(50:19):
Crystal and then another scene toward the end of the
movie with Nom where I don't know if he's like
the owner of the Star Dust Hotel or what this
guy's job is, but he's kind of like interviewing both
of them, and he's giving this like speech verbatim saying like,
we could have gotten anyone for the show.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
Paula Abdul, huge.

Speaker 3 (50:43):
For Paula Abdul.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
He's like, but we needed this star and she's perfect
and talented and so sexy and blah blah blah. And
it's the same speech about two different people who occupy
this starring role at different parts of the movie, because
again they're selling these women as a commodity and as
long as they have certain traits and certain talents, it

(51:08):
doesn't matter who it is according to this industry that
they're working within, right, And it's this type of you know,
commodification that makes people feel like they have to be
very competitive of each other. And again, whether that's intentional
in this movie or not, like intentional commentary or not,
that is what's happening where you see all these different rivalries,

(51:32):
the main one of course being between Gnomi and Crystal.
This movie has been like cited as being like pretty
much a ripoff for a remake or whatever of All
About Eve.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Which it's like definitely, I don't know. I was thinking
about this specific dynamic, which is like so complicated for
a lot of reasons of a lot of which you
just said, of like the inherent competition. I feel this
movie kind of does an above average job. It's not doing,
you know, all about Eve numbers of making this dynamic

(52:06):
a little clearer for the kind of because I feel like,
you know, in we've seen this dynamic a lot of
times all about Eve, I feel like you also see
a version of it in Black Swan, you see it
in Chicago, you see it in the Favorite, and it's
like there's a new girl in town, and you better
watch your back because there can only be like this

(52:28):
industry institution, whatever it is. It's often show business. There's
often a like Kyle McLaughlin type character where it's like,
now he's my boyfriend because I'm new and young and cool,
and like the tacit implication there is like there is
only room for one of you, so you will have
to tear each other down in order to be that

(52:49):
one because there's only one spot. And it's very fleeting
and like it's a story we've seen so many times,
and it's so clearly based in how I think especially
women are and also just perform in general, although I
feel like we see it most frequently between women are
like conditioned to see each other and like how institutions
like this and like the City of Chicago question work

(53:14):
uh and ballet and like how you're conditioned to turn
against each other and conditioned to be competitive over supportive
and that's the only way you can survive. And it's
like it's so tricky because I think that when those
stories are written poorly it makes it seem like this,

(53:35):
which this movie kind of is, but I feel like
it does well. We should talk about it, like how
I think when it's poorly written, it makes it seem
like an inherent quality of like because there are two
women and one is ten years older, they have to
hate each other and this is just like the natural
order of things, and it is not an institutional symptom

(53:59):
of like how they and conditioned to view each other
and how they've been conditioned to view themselves. And I
feel like this movie actually does above average at that.
We've definitely seen it done much worse, which I guess
is a bar on the floor kind of thing.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Right. It's weird because the movie, the movie feels like
a movie that.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
Like go to the theater type film for sure.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
It's a movie written and directed by men who again
don't seem to know how women interact, but.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Which is really funny. Just like, no one tell him.

Speaker 4 (54:37):
Goofy, let him keep making these movies.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
Can you imagine being that guy's like partner and being like,
you think I'm doing what when I'm with my friends?
You think we're talking about what exactly?

Speaker 4 (54:51):
Yeah? Dog food? Right, doc?

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Dog food? And you go shopping at first Saces Together,
et cetera.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Okay, I I thought the versafespit was good class commentary. Yeah,
I've done shit like that. Oh with The last thing
I want to say is, yeah, I think this movie
doesn't above average job. And every time I see this dynamic,
it does like it really sucks. How I think that
this is still something very very present in a lot

(55:21):
of industries, and it reminds me of how I was
sort of spoken to and like encouraged to feel and
kind of like came in with this attitude when I
started doing stand up of like, well, there's not a
lot of space for you, and you're gonna have to like,
you know, don't bother making friends. And in a way

(55:42):
that quickly was like, oh fuck this, you know, like
I'm losing money every time I walk out the door.
I'm gonna make a friend.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
But I feel like there were like I had early
experiences in comedy where you know, it's like either you're
like a threat because you're new and and there's only
so many spots and it's I don't know, I think
that that has certainly lessened as in the last you know,
in the ten years I've been performing, but it still
felt like I was like, oh god, yeah, like the

(56:12):
early to mid twenty tens, it felt very very present
in a culture.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah. I had a lot of similar experiences in my
early stand up career where I couldn't tell you how
many shows I did where I was the only woman
or fem on the lineup, and I was kind of
conditioned because this was like twenty ten ish. I was
at the time conditioned to think that that's something I

(56:38):
should be proud of, where it's like, well, we have
one spot for a woman, and you got it, and
you got it, and we filled our quota because that's
all the more any booker wanted to put on the
show is one woman. And I would be like, Wow,
I got it. I got the spot on this show.
I get to talk to all these guys that scussers

(57:02):
like verbally assaulted me throughout the entire fucking show.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
I got so I think I've talked about this on
the show before. I got so not so many, but
like a couple and one very memorable one, like when
the me Too movement first started. I think just like
men in Boston that were like oh fuck, and like
a guy that I mean he remember, yeah, yeah, he

(57:27):
sent me this long message to that was like, sorry,
I talked about you disgustingly every time I was around you,
and I was like, wow, I actually didn't know that
was happening a lot of the time, and now I do,
so thank you for telling me that you're horrible. I
didn't really know. Yeah, But I mean that that goes

(57:48):
both ways. Where it's like when I started performing, there
was like a show I did where there were two women,
very thrilling, but it was like the middle of summer.
It was like one hundred fucking degrees, and I was
wearing shorts on stage, and the only other women on
the lineup was like, you can't dress like that on stage.
Like take it from me, I'm thirty and you can't
wear shorts.

Speaker 4 (58:08):
And it's like and so you pushed her down the stairs.

Speaker 3 (58:11):
I did, but she was fine with it and then
we kissed.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
I think what you were saying about this like antagonistic
relationship between two women, though. I think it's one of
the things that I've struggled with with loving this movie
because it's something that typically gay men have loved to
watch in movies, you know, from Mean Girls to This,
to Black Swan to All About Eve, like these camp

(58:38):
movies have a place in gay culture. Death Becomes Her, Yeah,
and it's it's definitely, it's definitely problematic, and it's definitely
something to do with and a you know, misogyny within
the gay scene where it's fun to watch women be
shitty to each other. And it's something that I find
less and less appealing now, but it's you can still

(58:58):
go on Twitter today and watch you know, men pit
Gaga against Taylor Swift or Beyonce, and you know, it's
not something that's gone away. I think what you say
about this movie doing a better job of it than
most is actually true because there is nuance and it's
not just two women involved. There's what I like about

(59:19):
this movie is that there's so many different women and
none of them are saying things that really make any sense.
But they all have distinct and different motivations and goals
and like, some of them suck and some of them don't,
and some of them are trying to figure out where
they fit. And I like that for this movie.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Yeah right, this is very much a women's rights and
women's wrongs type of movie.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Yeah, yeah, so I guess. The bottom line is women
have historically sometimes had rivalries and tension among them or
between them, but there's almost always context for it, and
it's like institutional patriarchal context. And it's a matter of

(01:00:06):
does the story recognize that context and comment on it,
or is it you know, men who have just seen
women be petty toward each other and not understand why
and just assume, oh, well, this is just how women are.
Women are petty with each other, and so I'm going
to put that in the movie. And it seems like, yeah,
this movie does understand the context because it examines, like,

(01:00:30):
you know, the way that like the entertainment industry doesn't
value aging women.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
Yeah, it's actually the whole point of the movie. It's like,
the basically the whole message of this film is the
show business industry choose women up.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
I would say, if it has one point of view,
it's that I remember, I think, I remember you talking
about this on Your Death becomes Her episode where the
motivation for their animosity is you thought I was cheap, Yeah,
and you stole my man? Are you still motivation? Those

(01:01:06):
are weak motivations to kill each other and push someone
down the stairs. Which also happens in that movie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Wow, Gina Gershan's head should have twisted all the way
around like it does, because.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
Wouldn't have felt out of place in this city there.
It's so And then I also had like a whole
and then I was like Jamie too much, too much.
But I was like, how connected is this too? Like
this movie comes out like a couple of years after
like Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan, and like I was like, oh,
I wonder if that was on the writer's mind or

(01:01:39):
if he really was just like no no brain for
this one. Just women be pushing each other down the stairs,
but there is it's always contextualized, and I like that.
It's like I think that this is even though it's
like bizarre, it makes no sense that Crystal is like,
it's all good. This was gonna happen to me anyways,
So I'm glad it was someone I had a crush
on who pushed me down on the stairs. Whatever. But

(01:02:02):
I feel like it. I like that the movie makes
a very deliberate decision to end things well between them.
I mean, like, really, well you get that'll kiss in
a way that I think the only version of that
ending that I like better is Chicago. But I'm such
a Chicago head where it's like, well, we don't really
like each other, but we got to take this show
on the road because it's the only way we could

(01:02:23):
retain our value to society.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
And they're showgirls too, they are.

Speaker 3 (01:02:30):
That's another show I would love to see live. Anyways. Yeah,
I like that. The movie wants, however, bizarrely wants Crystal
and No Mean to end in a good place. That
feels rare true.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
I think another thing the movie does that it's interesting
and accurate is that it presents every male character working
within this, you know, very despicable industry that again commodifies
people and women and women's bodies and all this stuff.

(01:03:08):
Shows the men as being manipulative, sleazy, gross, very aggressive,
like all of these things, predatory, all this stuff, rapists, stalkers,
rape apologists, just horrible people. Again not hashtag not all men. Wow,

(01:03:30):
I said it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
But someone's going to clip this out and be like
they've changed.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
It's so common, especially the people who have any power
in an industry like this, to treat women as commodities
and to exploit them and exploit their labor and all
this stuff so we see that in this movie.

Speaker 4 (01:03:52):
What do you think the movie's point of view is
about James?

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
So confusing?

Speaker 4 (01:03:59):
I don't like them movie thinks James is a good guy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Yes, I agree. I think that he's presented as the
least bad of them, even though he's continually stalking her.

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
Yeah he's awful. He's awful, yeah to.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Her, Yeah he's the and yeah. I felt like, especially
in the last scene, I wonder how this felt to
watch in nineteen ninety five, because I'm like, oh, are
we supposed to think he's like the one that got away?

Speaker 4 (01:04:27):
I think so, right, But he just.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Called his pregnant girlfriend a bitch in front of us,
and we're like, wow, she should have ended up with him.
Question mark.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
He also does a thing where he's like, I bailed
you out, so you owe me, Like I did something
for you and now you owe me sex and right,
He's very awful, But yeah, the movie does not frame
him as being the same type of like bad as
all the other men.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
It is.

Speaker 4 (01:04:57):
It's confusing.

Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
Yeah, I think we've talked about this. It's some way
I forget in what context on the show before, But like,
I think he's definitely like the best, worst guy, or
that's what they want us to think, is like he's
the best man we meet in the story, but everyone
is awful. So the fact that like he and I
don't even know if this is true, like he's the
I don't know. I think we are supposed to think

(01:05:19):
he's good in comparison to how all the men around
him behave, but like he's still awful. I can't believe
that we're supposed to be like he's the one that
got away when he's like, go get me a beer, bitch,
you dance like a truck, right, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
Yeah, while we're on his character. Something that the movie
does that I found a bit nefarious is the movie
tricks you into thinking it's going to be more diverse
than it actually is, because Molly and James are introduced
early on and are presented as being important characters or

(01:06:00):
characters who you think are going to be in the
story as important characters throughout. But the movie, to quote
our favorite song from a Star is Born, they fall
by the wayside as the story progresses.

Speaker 3 (01:06:16):
As like by the wayside iconic song from a Star
is Born twenty eighteen and what.

Speaker 1 (01:06:22):
Is Showgirls but a story about a star who is
born you know, from a volcano. Wow, it's true, Goddess,
there is an interracial relationship, which is not something you
would commonly see on screened for like a major motion

(01:06:43):
picture in ninety five, And if an interracial relationship was
in a movie in that era, there was a lot
of attention called to it, like called to the fact
that a black man is kissing a white woman. How scandalous,
how you know whatever. But this movie very normalizes it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:03):
Yeah, it's very matter of fact.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
The relationship is awful, and he's manipulative in a stalker,
but at least it normalizes people of different races kissing
each other and checking if they have their period. That
should be normalized.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Yeah, kind of amazing. But well, and then I think
it also is very I don't know, like telling of
the movie sort of, I don't know, Like I mean, obviously,
there are two white women at the center of this story,
and the fact that Mollie, who's the only black woman
who gets any meaningful space in the story, is chosen

(01:07:43):
as the one to be violently assaulted feels very pointed.
And I don't know, I was reading about how like
the experience for Gina rivera of filming that scene, it
sounds like it was really traumatic, especially for such an
unnuw necessary exploitative scene that she's only seen the movie

(01:08:04):
one time because and left during the premiere during that
scene because she's like, I don't need to see that again,
and like, your body doesn't you know, you can know
your acting, but your body doesn't really know the difference
when that is done. And I wonder I wasn't able
to find out, maybe, you know, Crystal, like if there
was any sort of intimacy coaching or any sort of anything.

(01:08:25):
I'm assuming there wasn't.

Speaker 4 (01:08:27):
I'm assuming there wasn't as well.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
And that's so, I mean, it feels very pointed in
how comfortable people are just exploiting black women in movies.
And also it's only done to advance Nome's story of
like to present her with the big problem, and the
fact that a writer couldn't conceive of another way for

(01:08:50):
that to happen is just like gross. I mean, yeah,
by far the worst part, and.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
It happens at the eleventh hour.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
It's like, why, yeah, this really comes out of nowhere? Yeah,
like they could have well, Paul Verhoven loves shocking graphic violence,
Like every one of his movies has like vomit, people
getting blown up disgustingly, and there's seems to be a
rape scene in every one of his movies. As my

(01:09:17):
husband said, I think I think Paul Overhoven's a pervert.
And it's kind of hard to argue with that. It's like,
why does this need to happen in every one? Paul
like we can we can experience the horrors of rape
and rape culture without actually needing to visually experience the
horrors of it. Absolutely, and I think his point of
view is people should be confronted with how awful this is.

(01:09:39):
We've been kind of dancing around this whole movie, what
this industry is all about, and I'm going to make
sure you understand what it's really about. Here at the
very end, I can see what he was trying to do, but.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
The way the scene is framed and just shot and
it's just extremely triggering for the and for the actor.
I want to share some quotes from Gina Rivera. The
scene took nine hours to film and it seems like
it was just pure torture for her the entire time.

(01:10:13):
She says, quote, when you do a scene like that
your body doesn't know it's not real. Jimmy, you already
alluded to that. I don't know if I would have
taken the movie if I had understood that. She then adds,
I took the rape scene very seriously because when you
see rape on film, you know you're representing people who

(01:10:33):
have lived through it. I thought, I'm going to do
this scene so the girl who goes to that party
and gets asked to that room doesn't go into it.
I was willing to do the scene for that person
because this is a real moment in the world. Unfortunately,
women are victims of this violence unquote, which I appreciate

(01:10:53):
that she seems to have taken that moment of the
story with like, you know, she handled it with as
much care as she could. But again, the way that
it unfolds unscreen, and the fact that it unfolds unscreen
at all is completely unnecessary, which is something that Joe
Esterhouse later admits. He says that rape scene was a

(01:11:17):
god awful mistake in retrospect, A terrible mistake.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
I mean, truly the least he can do, right given there, Yeah,
I mean, and then yeah, even from like a narrative
perspective it happening that late in the movie is like,
what the fuck are you doing? Like truly, Yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
Think it's one of the worst and the biggest crimes
of this movie is the effect that that scene had
on the actress who did it, And I think that's
it's probably the most unforgivable thing about this movie. The
other thing I would say is what it did to
Elizabeth Berkeley's career, Like those are the two like real

(01:11:56):
world impacts that this movie's had. And despite it trying
to make a movie about how show business destroys women,
being a vehicle to destroy women, yeah, which is really
really troubling and strange and ironic. I guess I also
read something you Know to just kind of further dig

(01:12:18):
that hole that Gina Rivera was meant to have a
topless scene in the trailer as well, which for no reason,
but she was going to just be coming out of
the shower in one of the scenes and she said,
I don't want to I don't see how this is
necessary for my character, or you've already got a movie
that's full of breasts, Like why do you need mine?
And she apparently had to have a real fight with

(01:12:39):
Paul Verhoven about not doing a topless scene. It's just
and again it's like, what point would that have served
other than if you're a woman in this movie, we
should we should be able to see your brains.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
You have to see titties.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
Yeah, yes, and it sucks that. I mean, like Gina Gershon,
I'm really glad she spoke up for herself. And also
I'm sure that not every actor in the movie felt
like they could advocate for themselves like that because they're
viewed as replaceable, which like is what the movie is about, right,
But I felt, I mean, yeah, I feel especially because

(01:13:12):
of where Elizabeth Berkeley was in her career. I think
she was like twenty when this movie was filmed. She's
very young. She had been on Saved by the Bell
and I think we, I mean, this is like opens
a huge can of worms that we probably don't have
time to get into today. But this was like her
role of like I am an adult now, which I
think is something a pressure that's put most often on

(01:13:36):
young women in Hollywood. We saw, I mean, we've seen
it a million different versions of it. I feel like,
you know, Zendea doing Euphoria is like now I'm doing
the adult thing, and it's not just like I'm going
from being a child's entertainer, which I have a ton
of thoughts about anyways, to like now I am a

(01:13:58):
sexual creature, and like, I don't know, like it's it
really depends on how the actor actually feels about it,
and if you want to like take a part like that,
fucking go for it. But I feel like there's also
just like an implied pressure to take a part like that,
to declare like I am no longer a child, I

(01:14:19):
am super no longer a child. I will be you know.
And Elizabeth Berkeley taking a huge swing by taking this
part and then being like mocked for it is just
so ugly. She it is a very flaiy performance. But
Paul her Hooften says years later, I don't know why
he doesn't say it at the time that that was
like a result of his direction, Like he was like,

(01:14:40):
go big in every scene, so it like it was
just made out to be like, oh, she's a terrible actor,
how embarrassing that she was in this exploitative movie, and
like who does she think she is? Blah blah blah.
Was like the framing of the framing of her and like,
obviously that has a huge effect on you when you're
twenty one years old, and like it's I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
Yeah, She's been really consistent as well about how she
loved making it. She loved making the movie. Like if
you watch the clips of her doing the interviews during
the filming, she's having the best time. And even twenty
years later, she attends a screening and she talks about
how she felt like when she was making this movie
that she was living her dreams, she was having the

(01:15:24):
no Me moment, she was making something that was, you know,
going to be career changing for her, but she also
loved doing and so I think in a way, if
if it hadn't tanked, and if it hadn't ruined her
acting career, it would really solve a lot of a
lot of the problems around this movie. But the fact
that it did cheer her up and spit her out

(01:15:46):
is is really sad. I want you to go back
to what you were saying about race as well, though,
because yeah, there's I think three black characters in the movie.
There's Crystal's understudy, there's no Mean's love interest, and then
there's Molly and all three of them are again destroyed
essentially in one way or another. What I would say

(01:16:08):
that this movie is trying to do. I think it
is trying to make that point. And I have read
that Paul Verhoven said explicitly that, yeah, the portrayal of
these characters is representative of the way black people are
treated in America. And so again, I think it's interesting
that then the spinout effect was actually again to traumatize

(01:16:31):
a black actress through a rape scene, right again, kind
of doing what he said he's trying to highlight. And
if you want to advocate against right, if you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Want to make commentary on that, you can't do the
exact same thing that you're making commentary on. That's the
whole that's this whole movie's just I don't even know
the word ethos no, but like it's also like a
movie about how women and his bodies are commodified and
exploit and then every single scene and not to say

(01:17:03):
that like nudity is inherently explodedive, but there's so much unnecessary.
You know, you could argue nudity in this movie and
it and there's for example, there's full frontal female nudity,
no nudity really at all for men.

Speaker 3 (01:17:24):
That's what I was like, I I because this is
I mean, and this is like a very fraught conversation
that I feel like that like we've sort of changed
over the years, and I think I used to view
sexy movies a little like prudishly perhaps, and it's like
I'm pro erotic movie, but I I yeah, it's like

(01:17:45):
when it's not equal opportunity, it feels very glaring where
I'm like, why you know, Kyle mcgloughlin, we see but
torso up, we see we do see his butt.

Speaker 1 (01:17:55):
But for like a few seconds, and then he goes
into a swimming pool and butts.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
There's a lot of chances to see his butt because
you see his button. Sex in the City quite a
bit as well.

Speaker 1 (01:18:05):
Oh wow yeah, twin Peaks, twin twin cheeks.

Speaker 5 (01:18:10):
Oh wow, yeah, twin cheeks.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
I don't think he's see his twin cheeks in Twin Peaks.
But the reason it feels exploitative in this movie is
that it's such a heavy focus on female nudity and
none whatsoever. And again, you could they would probably like
the filmmakers would probably argue, well, men's bodies aren't as

(01:18:36):
exploited as women. So where So that's actually commentary, that's
why we're showing so much female nudity. But it just.

Speaker 4 (01:18:44):
Feels definitely not to make a movie for fourteen year
old boys to have a to jerk off to after
their parents have gone to bed. That movie. Surely this
is a this is a hard hitting look at the
exploitation of women.

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
Right, we only traumatized most of the women in the
movie to do it, and what a noble sacrifice like
lah Lah Right, So Culverhoven is just chaos.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
What I want to make clear is that I have
no problem with nudity in movies. I as long as
it's happening on the terms of the actor, and the
actor is comfortable with it, and it's not gratuitous and exploitative.
But this movie often feels as though at least some

(01:19:31):
of the nudity is gratuitous and exploitative, which again goes
against what doing the movie says it's trying to Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:19:40):
And I think that's what I was trying to say,
is that Elizabeth Berkeley says she didn't feel exploited and
she had a great time, which wonderful, and she's like
she looks super hot. Oh my god, Like how fun
to like if you're feeling really hot and you're twenty
one and you've got that body, like if you want
to show it up, like great, yeah, fun right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
But while we're talking about bodies, I mean this, there's
very little body diversity in this absolutely movie. You do
have one character who is fat in Henrietta. She's one
of the performers at Cheetah's Comedian, Right. She doesn't do

(01:20:22):
the same like strip teas act as the other performers.
She does more of a and there is nudity in
her act, but it's more like comedy vaudeville. Is that
what vaudeville is? Turns out, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:20:37):
Yeah, but with boobs, with boobs.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
So her body and like I understand that a venue
like that, a strip club like that, would treat a
body like that differently than they would treat the other
performers who have these like you know, victorious secret model
type bodies. But again, the movie is not really commenting

(01:21:03):
on that very much. I don't know what are your thoughts.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
I also felt, I mean, that poor actor who had
to play that part, I mean, she did a great
job with what she's given like it. I don't know
what is her weirdest line where she's like, you're the
only one that knows how to what is that line?

Speaker 4 (01:21:23):
Yeah know me, You're the only one who get my
tips popping, right.

Speaker 3 (01:21:27):
That's an iconic moment in cinema. But yeah, the fact that,
I mean, it's not surprising to me that and I'm
sure is like reflective of that scene that there's not
a lot of body diversity. But I don't I think
that on some topics this movie goes out of its
way to make a point. It didn't feel like it
quite got there at all. I think the closest were

(01:21:50):
like comments made at the beginning of the movie or
the beginning of Nomi's career about what she's allowed to
eat and what she's not allowed to eat. That was
as close to like any sort of attempt at commentary.
Is like, not only is there no body diversity, and
if you are fat or just not a victorious secret model,

(01:22:11):
your act will be different, you will be treated differently,
and you are your body is the joke, But also
that the victorious secret model dancers are like starving and
are not allowed to eat normally except for Nomi who
eats subsists strictly on chips and champagne and cheeseburgers, which

(01:22:34):
is another Oh gosh, this is something that it's tricky,
but like it feels very like Gilmore Girl's syndrome you
to me, where it's like this girl can eat whatever
she wants, but she still has a victorious secret body,
you know, like you do, and it's like you. It
feels like a very weird half step. I mean, yes,
she's twenty one, so maybe, but you know, it just

(01:22:56):
feels I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
There's certainly a media trope where the only women who
are allowed to stay or allowed to be seen eating
something like a hamburger on screen are women who are
extremely thin, right, because if a woman who is not
extremely thin is seen eating a hamburger, that immediately becomes
either a joke or a judgment call is being made

(01:23:21):
on her choices.

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
Exactly. Yeah, it felt like it was something that you
would think this movie would attempt to make more commentary on.
It doesn't. I don't know if I'm like, I don't
know how to feel about it, because I'm like, well,
if they'd tried it, they probably wouldn't have gone great,
But I don't know. I guess I would be interested
in what the attempt would have been similar.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
Well, again, they.

Speaker 4 (01:23:46):
Would have really traumatized people. Yeah, a whole other group
of people. They would have figured it a way to
traumatize someone else by trying to make a comment on
something else they weren't really equipped to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
They would have fumbled it the way they've fumbled sex work.
Which can we get into that, yes, yes, So several
characters and the movie as a whole seem to have
an attitude that sex work is not legitimate work. If
you are a stripper, that's not real dancing, you're wasting

(01:24:22):
your talents. So it completely delegitimate, delegitimizes wow words, they're hard.
Delegitimizes sex work as work, but in different ways with
different characters, where for example, James, he's like, oh, no, me,

(01:24:43):
you want to be a showgirl. Ooh why? Like what
you're doing at Cheetahs is at least honest, because he
says something like people want tits and ass and you
give them tits and ass. It goddess, they pretend it's
something else, but you still show them tits and ass.
So he seems to be again like legitimizing sex work
more than other people in the movie are. But then

(01:25:06):
he'll turn around and say, like, you're wasting your talents
by being a stripper and giving lap dances and you.

Speaker 4 (01:25:14):
Know, fucking him without fucking him.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
Yes, yes, he's all over the place there. Then you
have Crystal's attitude, which is like if you work at Cheetahs,
like if you work at a strip club, that's not
real dancing, which really upsets and offends, know me. But
then later Crystal will be like, you're a whore and

(01:25:37):
I'm a ho and I don't love the word horror,
but they say it so often in this movie that unaviidable, right,
So she's like, I'm a whore, You're a whore. We're
exactly alike. Just acknowledge what you're doing. And know me
gets very defensive anytime a conversation like this is happening
and she's saying, ah, no, I'm not. Maybe you are,

(01:26:01):
I know you are, but what am I kind of thing?

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
Yes, very pee wee herman energy and sometimes in her
physical choices. Yeah, but I do think Crystal, you made
this point earlier. We're like, in the context of what
we later learned about me. I think it is like
an interesting and like ultimately somewhat fumbled attempt for, like, know,

(01:26:26):
me processing the stigma of having been a sex worker.
I don't think that these guys have the juice to
make any like clear. Uh they don't. They definitely don't
stick the landing. But I thought it was I don't know.
I would be curious to know what our listeners think
as well, but I felt like it was what they

(01:26:46):
were trying to do, which only makes sense if you
watch it back. I do feel like we should have
known that a little sooner to really appreciate like the
struggle that she's having, because it's like, I'm sure that,
I mean, everyone around her is telling her that sex
work not legitimate work, which is, you know, certainly not
an unpopular take in the nineties. She has been a

(01:27:07):
sex worker in the past, and it seems like has
you know, absorbed a lot of the stigma that comes
with that and doesn't want It's It's interesting because it's
like she does, I mean, she enjoys being a strippers,
and she like she likes it, and she's defensive of
the fact that she likes it, and I don't know

(01:27:28):
I think it's interesting theoretically to watch a character of
this era like struggle with stigma and like say, no,
I'm not like I'm doing something legitimate, and like what
does legitimate mean? What has she been told in the
past is and isn't legitimate? And that's an interesting journey
to take. It's just like this movie is not is

(01:27:49):
ill equipped to take you on that journey.

Speaker 4 (01:27:51):
But I think I think the movie is trying to
say that essentially, there isn't anything legitimate within the American dream. Yeah,
and if you're going to participate in that as a concept,
you are selling out and you are selling yourself to
one degree or another. And I do kind of like
that because and it's often a foreign filmmaker who's gonna

(01:28:12):
make that point, who can come into America and be like, wow,
this is a really weird like concept you all have
that there's this like you can somehow attain all of
the success without it costing you something. And I like
that point of view. I think it's I think it's interesting,
but I don't think it particularly Yeah, like you say,
Nails the Landing, where it's like you're all selling out

(01:28:34):
and that is sometimes okay or not okay or whatever.
Like sex work can be good, it's unclear what it
actually thinks about that. It's point of view is you're
all selling out and right, you should be honest with
yourself about that, which.

Speaker 3 (01:28:50):
I feel like is so much of Paul Verhoven's work
for me, where it's like he definitely has he's always
onto something, but I feel like he never, at least
for me, Like I haven't seen all this movies. I
still haven't seen Robotcop. My boyfriend saw a RoboCop recently
and he was like, wow, he really I guess he

(01:29:10):
maybe stuck the landing on that one. But in general,
I feel like he definitely is always onto something. He's
nibbling at something, but never quite sticks the landing in
a way that's always interesting to watch.

Speaker 4 (01:29:25):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:29:27):
The execution might not be quite there, but the attempt
is watchable.

Speaker 3 (01:29:34):
He does, he gives it one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
Yeah. But the other thing is like, so often sex
work is framed as something that people are trying to,
like desperately escape from, or are only engaging in out
of desperation, And while that might be true for some
sex workers, it's rarely presented as something that is happening

(01:30:02):
on the person's terms. It's rarely presented as something that
the character or you know, the person is proud of.
And again, this movie kind of does a little bit
of both, where Nomi gets very defensive when Crystal insults
her and says like, if you're working at Cheetahs, that's
not real dancing, and you know, Nomi says, you don't

(01:30:24):
know shit. But she also anytime someone suggests that Gnomi
is a whore, she's like, yeah, I'm not. And like, again,
there's this trauma that she's probably working through. There's you know,
there's all kinds of stuff that the movie doesn't quite
know how to handle. So it ultimately it comes down

(01:30:46):
on the side to me at least, and you know,
other people might have different interpretations. But where the movie lands,
it feels like sex work is something that you might
do on the path of like something more legitimate, and
it's treating sex work as though it's not legitimate work

(01:31:09):
and it's something that you might do as like a
stepping stone to get to the stardom that you want
to get to by doing.

Speaker 4 (01:31:16):
But I would say that Crystal's character also knows that
she's realistic she's saying, I've chosen sex work, right, but
she's presented as a bit of a cautionary tale in
her own way. You don't necessarily want to end up
like her because she chose to sell out. She chose
to sell herself. She made that deal with the devil,

(01:31:36):
and look where it's ended her up. She's bitter and alone.

Speaker 3 (01:31:41):
Right, Yeah, it's so I feel like at least Crystal's character,
at least for me, was more open to interpretation than
that stock character usually is.

Speaker 4 (01:31:52):
Yeah, because it is.

Speaker 3 (01:31:53):
I mean, it is interesting watching how thoroughly jaded most
of the women in this story are, except for no MEI,
who is just like I don't know who knows what's
going on with me a lot of the time. But
there there does seem to be this like understanding that
most people are very frank about to the point where
I mean, it's tragic in itself. The Crystal is like,

(01:32:14):
it makes sense that you would push me down the stairs.
I'm like, Crystal, I find you to be a confident character.
Why would you say that? But but like that or
a line that stuck with me was that I thought
was like interesting that they added in was the costume
designer and how she's presented, and she's like, well, you know,

(01:32:35):
like I it's like implied she used to be a
show girl but then she like quote unquote past her
prime and she had to have a plan and a
man in place.

Speaker 1 (01:32:42):
And oh the choreographer, Yes, Oh the character is gay
who's okay, which is incredible, but like she she like,
it's also implied that it's like you're very naive if
you don't have an exit plan, because you will be
chewed up and spit out.

Speaker 3 (01:32:58):
And yeah, like you don't want to be Crystal. You
want to have a plan and a man of what
you're going to do, like when you're inevitably discarded, and
the way it's like the way the game presents that
very frankly I thought was an interesting choice. Again, it's
like hard to tell exactly how the movie feels about it,

(01:33:19):
but I think it's just presented as like, if you
want to survive in this very patriarchal, fucked up space,
you have to be protecting yourself years in advance. It's like,
I don't know, I've been talking about this a lot
lately on the tour I've been on, but like the
idea that you know, if you're marginalized in any way

(01:33:41):
really that you need to be exceptional in order to
deserve to survive, And like that whole concept is so
normalized where it's like, for for the most part, like
you know, like the Kyle maclochins of the world are
always going to be fine and they don't need to
be really exceptional to have power and holder and maintain it.
But if you are, I mean, in this case, mostly

(01:34:05):
if you are a woman, you need to be constantly
like gold Star on patrol or something horrible might happen
to you and it will be implied by the world
that you brought it on yourself somehow.

Speaker 4 (01:34:17):
Yeah, and your only other option, I guess, is to
do what Nomi does at the end, which is just
opt out entirely.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
Yeah, but then go to La I feel like the
implication is like, well, I conquered Vegas, so now it's
time to go to Hollywood.

Speaker 4 (01:34:31):
Do you think so?

Speaker 3 (01:34:32):
I didn't feel that way.

Speaker 1 (01:34:33):
I mean, it's maybe I'm just reading between the lines.
But there's a sign that says like Los Angeles two
hundred and forty miles.

Speaker 4 (01:34:40):
Yeah. I think if there had been a sequel, which
they obviously like put that sign there as like a potential,
like we could revisit this idea, and then Nomi would
go do La in the exact same way that she'd
done Vegas. For sure. But I think that line that
they say at the end, which is she gets back
in the truck and he says to her, did you gamble?

(01:35:01):
And she says yes, and he says what did you win?
And she says, n me, yeah, And that's her saying
like I've decided that, you know, I can't I can't
be bought or sold. I'm you know, I had everything
offered to me and I'm walking away from it because
the cost was too high.

Speaker 3 (01:35:20):
Yeah. Yeah, I thought I thought it was very I mean,
and maybe she does go to La, and like that's
a whole that feels very like pul Verhoviny of like
the Big At least it felt like in some ways.
I don't know, Maybe I just feel this way about
Vegas in general, where it's like, yes, the entertainment industry
in Vegas is extremely seed and exploitative, but there is

(01:35:43):
kind of this element of it where it's like, but
it knows what it is and it's not pretending to
be like, I think that that's why, like the LA
industry is so frustrating sometimes, because it's like everyone is
pretending that we're not doing the thing that we're doing.
But in Vegas they're like, no, we're doing obviously it's
happening to you right now and I don't care. And

(01:36:04):
you're like, well, at least I know here they're like, no,
nothing is happening, like ignore the man behind the curtain
fucking you over, like smile better or I don't know
what am I saying.

Speaker 4 (01:36:16):
It must be weird not having it, but anybody come
on you, Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:36:19):
My god, my god. And that character also, I mean,
we don't even have time like that guy sucks oh
so much. But that line, I mean, there's no denying
that line. Yeah, iconic.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
Could we talk about the queer overtones, Yes, between I
mean more obviously between know Me and Crystal, but also
I was reading between Know Me and Molly as well
possibly others thoughts. I guess I'm just like, is this

(01:36:59):
I've I feel like you could make the argument that
it's queer baiting. I think that you could make the
argument that these are queer characters who are into each other,
but you only ever see heterosex happening on screen.

Speaker 3 (01:37:15):
Yeah, it's very confusing. I don't know what is it.

Speaker 4 (01:37:19):
I think what we have here is a predatory bisexual
woman and a naive young straight woman. That's what I
get from these.

Speaker 3 (01:37:29):
Characters, which is also Paul Verhoven Cannon. I mean that's like, yeah,
basic instinct all.

Speaker 4 (01:37:35):
Over it, exactly, And I don't think that's necessarily great. No,
but it's been done worse. It's been done worse by
Paul Verhoven.

Speaker 3 (01:37:44):
So yes, in a much better received movie. Right, it's
very Yeah, he definitely has a playbook and refuses to
learn a lesson, which is we love that for him? Yeah,
I guess it's really I don't know it is because
I do think that, like the other predatory bisexual woman
is on display here. And I also like the kiss,

(01:38:10):
so it's Heart's girl in that way. It's a great kiss,
and I do it does seem like this movie is
trying to do the like every like quote unquote, everything
that's scandalous in nineteen ninety five has to happen in
this movie, and so them saving like a really sexy
kiss between women for the very end. I'm like, yeah,

(01:38:31):
I guess that's the last thing on the list. You
already had a brutal, horrific, exploitative rape scene, a ton
of nudity, a ton of sex, and it's like now
the cherry on top a gay kiss, and it's like, yep,
that's everything that people would have yelled at you for,
but without like any I mean, it's not obviously anywhere

(01:38:52):
near as bad as the way that the rape scene
is handled, but just like it just seems like they're
checking boxes of like scanned list thing and not thinking
through anything, which at this point in the episode, could
you be shocked?

Speaker 4 (01:39:06):
Basically it doesn't seem like any bisexual person I know, right, same,
it's very clearly a bisexual woman written by a straight man. Yeah, yeah,
so it's not great representation what but I'm not as
a queer person, I'm also not offended by it. I
guess that's where I land on queer issues in this movie.

(01:39:28):
Same with the dancer who asks for a punch anally
like okay, yeah, that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:34):
Honestly maybe my favorite exchange of dialogue in the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:39:38):
There's too many good lines.

Speaker 1 (01:39:39):
Someone's like, you want a knuckle sandwich and he's like, yeah,
can I have mine anally.

Speaker 4 (01:39:47):
I literally paused the movie I was watching with my husband.
I'm like, do we feel okay about this? And we
were like, yeah, yeah, we're fine.

Speaker 3 (01:39:55):
It is so campy that you're just like, sure, you're
just really watching a straight and feel his way around
in the dark entirely. He's like, oh, what a gay
man replied to this, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:08):
Oh wait, no, real, Okay. Here's my actual favorite line
of the movie. Zach aka Kayle MacLaughlin is talking about
how he's like, I got an MBA for this, and
Noomi's like, what's an MBA? And he responds with, an
MBA is a degree you pick up in college. That's
not quite if we're like college being like a four

(01:40:32):
year undergrad thing. NBA is a master's I should know.
I have a master's degree in screenwriting. I would never
mention it. But he's acting like it's something like you
go to undergrad and you get an MBA. No, and
then he says and it's mostly worthless in the real world. Also, No,
he's what he means is a master's degree in screenwriting.

(01:40:55):
That's the thing that's worthless in the real world.

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):
That's I mean, I thought I thought that was like
somewhat intentional, but I love because they're just like because
he's like sucks like he says, and he's also being
especially after the verses debacle, he's also being just like
condescending to her. He's like, Ah, why bother explaining it
to you? You wouldn't get it. I don't think you're smart.

Speaker 4 (01:41:17):
Right, Absolutely, if we're doing favorite lines, please mine is
when Henrietta says she says to this sleazy guy about
know me that she looks better than a ten inch dick.

Speaker 1 (01:41:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
Oh, and for all of the problems with this movie,
the fact that we got this line really really does
go a long way to make me feel a lot
better about it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:40):
Yeah, yeah, very mine. I'm going with the classic must
be weird not having anybody come on you, I mean, yeah,
just perfectly delivered. And then the cut to Elizabeth Berkeley's
reaction is what it's so confusing, but.

Speaker 4 (01:41:54):
Also the sentiment mental music while he says it, it's delivered.

Speaker 3 (01:41:58):
So since it's that poor actor where I'm just like
they could he couldn't have known how they were going
to edit that feel so aggressive. Loved it, loved it,
loved it. Yeah, this I mean, this is just like,
it's it's so interesting talking about camp movies on this show,

(01:42:19):
because it's like, in some ways our show is simply
not built for it. But I feel like over the
years we've we've developed a way to talk about camp movies. Yeah,
I don't, I don't know. I mean, is there anything
else that y'all wanted to touch on?

Speaker 1 (01:42:34):
I'll just share a couple fun facts. These are pulled
from scholarly journal Wikipedia. For the most part, I hope
I think they're still true, although these might be a
bit outdated. But as far as I know, this is
the highest grossing NC seventeen production of all time. So
even though it was a flop at the box office

(01:42:57):
because it got a wide theatrical release, its budget was
also forty five million dollars and it only ended up
grossing I think like thirty seven thirty eight worldwide. But
even though it was a flop because of the size
of its budget theatrically, it was still a high grossing

(01:43:18):
NC seventeen movie. It went on to gross over one
hundred million dollar WARS in home video sales, and wonder
why that could be?

Speaker 3 (01:43:35):
People wanted to watch this movie privately shocking.

Speaker 1 (01:43:41):
It was nominated for thirteen Golden Raspberry Awards AK thirteen Razzies.

Speaker 3 (01:43:48):
I was like, wow, what so formal of you?

Speaker 1 (01:43:51):
Yes, which was a record at the time and might
still be the record number of nominations.

Speaker 4 (01:44:00):
I think it's been tied by that Lindsay Lohan movie
where she also plays a stripper.

Speaker 1 (01:44:05):
Right, are you referring to I Know Who Killed.

Speaker 4 (01:44:09):
That movie is really really.

Speaker 1 (01:44:11):
Fab I haven't seen it come back, okay in that movie.
So Showgirls got thirteen nominations and won seven of the awards,
which at the time was a record. It was beaten
by I Know Who Killed Me, which won eight, and
then History Jack and Jill from twenty twelve, which I

(01:44:31):
think is an Adam Sandler movie.

Speaker 3 (01:44:34):
Yes, that movie is genuinely horrible.

Speaker 1 (01:44:36):
It won ten Razzies.

Speaker 3 (01:44:38):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:44:39):
Yeah wow. So those are just my fun facts.

Speaker 3 (01:44:44):
Does this movie past the Bechdel test, Well, folks, it does.

Speaker 1 (01:44:49):
It does passes a lot. They're talking about chips, they're
talking about nail polish, dog food, dog food food.

Speaker 3 (01:44:56):
The three the four things talk about. Oh, it is
just such a treat watching this this writer try to
it's so weird like and also that he was. I mean,
it talk about the way that straight men are permitted
to flop around for their entire careers. The fact that,

(01:45:19):
like he was like one of the most high highest
paid writers in Hollywood at the time. Yeah, God, this
always infuriates me. It's like learning about why Wes Anderson's
career took off, where he just sort of came in
and he was like, I have this idea, what do
you think And they're like, here's five million dollars, best
of luck, and you're like, wow, absolutely kill me. But

(01:45:40):
the same deal. I mean, at this point, Joe Esther
has had like had hits under his belt. It makes
sense that he was able to sell a movie, but
the fact that he like wrote this down on a
napkin where he's like women Vegas and they're like, we'll
give you two million dollars to figure it out, and
you're like, are you joking? Like unbelievable TSK. But anyway,

(01:46:05):
I mean, it's what I can only be so mad
because I'm happy that this movie exists. He also wrote
Flash Dance, and he also wrote Basic Instinct, and his
career did actually take a hit for having written this movie.
So even men suffered consequences. This movie was considered such

(01:46:25):
a failure if you can imagine whoops. Oh but no,
but this was he was in his prime because he
got three million dollars to write Basic Instinct. Then he
got two million dollars for writing down a vague idea
that sounded sort of like show Girls on a napkin
in Hawaii. Yes, and then they were like, figure it out.

(01:46:45):
And then the movie he made he wrote after this
was called Jade, another erotic thriller. I mean, that's his wheelhouse,
which is bizarre for someone who seems to struggle with
basic mechanics of sex whatever. For Jade, he is paid
one point five million dollars for a two page outline. Wow,

(01:47:07):
and then in ninety seven they make him work for it.
He's paid two point five million dollars for a four
page outline.

Speaker 4 (01:47:13):
So but it's like, oh wow, wow, Wow, imagine people
having that much faith in you. I really cannot relate.

Speaker 3 (01:47:21):
No, I like, I cannot can't wrap my head around
it probably feels great, And he's like, why would you
learn how sex works if you were just like paid
two point five million dollars to be like, I'm flailing.

Speaker 4 (01:47:34):
Around, dangerous hot lady.

Speaker 6 (01:47:37):
Yes, wow, Wellpet, it really does onto our nipple scale
where we rate the movie zero to five nipples based
on examining the film through an intersectional feminist lens, and
I would.

Speaker 1 (01:47:55):
Say based on the movies really murky framing of sex
work based on the way it treats characters of color,
which I wanted to include. Just one last quote from
Gina Rivera, who has spoken about her role being cast

(01:48:20):
as the black best friend trope character. Yeah, she said, quote,
it's the Hattie McDaniel role where you take care of
the needs of the white woman and you don't have
a storyline of your own. It was a difficult decision
for me, but it was also one of the first
movies I was ever going to do. A lot of
black girls have to do that job, and I had

(01:48:42):
to start somewhere, which is just like so common for
black actors to have to take roles like this because
it's all that's available, It's all that anyone cares to write,
especially in an era where Hollywood and this is still
a very true, but like the industry is run by

(01:49:03):
white people who don't care to tell the stories of
people of color, and things are slowly changing and improving,
But in the mid nineties especially, like it was just
so bleak and the opportunities and roles available to black
actors were so frequently this type of.

Speaker 3 (01:49:26):
Role where you're the.

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
Best friend of the lead, you're catering to their storyline,
you are kind of disappeared from the story for large swaths,
you're assaulted. It's just all these horrible things that tend
to happen to characters like this and that.

Speaker 3 (01:49:45):
On top of that, she was brutalized at length in
the movie and had lasting I mean, and the effects
that that had, Like it's just yeah, which kind of like,
I mean, for me, it's like if Paul Verhoven was
attempting to comment on race at all, like he failed.
If that is how his leading black actor feels about

(01:50:07):
her experience like working on this movie.

Speaker 4 (01:50:09):
Right, Also, even in the world of the movie, poor Mollie,
her friend's just left town. She's still in the hospital.
She's fucking unconscious, right, I.

Speaker 1 (01:50:18):
Don't even think she's fully conscious when Gnomi visits her
in the hospital.

Speaker 4 (01:50:22):
No, exactly, she's just gonna wake up and be like,
what happened? Yeah, it's awful.

Speaker 1 (01:50:27):
I guess my friend abandoned me.

Speaker 3 (01:50:28):
I didn't even think of that. Yeah, then she just leaves.

Speaker 4 (01:50:31):
She beat up that guy for me. I guess, so
I'm fine.

Speaker 1 (01:50:35):
Right, Like It's just so, there's a lot of things
the movie isn't handling well, as we've discussed. I think
it does do a better job than most movies do
when they're when examining the reasons why women might be
in conflict, and it contextualizes it and provides this commentary

(01:50:58):
on the often exploitative nature of the entertainment industry. The
movie has a still a pretty narrow scope of that,
and it could dig a little bit deeper. But it
is kind of the one thing that I think the
movie is doing more successfully as far as like commentary goes,

(01:51:19):
would I say that it's brilliant satire, not necessarily for
me at least. I think it's gonna be like one
and a half or two nipples, because I do like
no me, and I do like that she's very she
doesn't take shit from anyone. She stands up for herself constantly.

(01:51:40):
I like to see this in a female character. But
the movie's a.

Speaker 3 (01:51:46):
Mess, so a mess, A glorious mess.

Speaker 1 (01:51:50):
A glorious mess. Two nipples. I will give one to
no me's fingernails, and I'll give I thought she's good,
the other to her constant thrashing.

Speaker 3 (01:52:05):
About yes, I'll meet you at two. I think that
there is a series of failures to launch commentary in
this movie. There are definitely attempts. I want to like
honor those attempts. And also, I mean, particularly the rape
scene and the treatment of Molly's character in particular just
is so glaringly wrong, and like even in nineteen ninety

(01:52:30):
five was glaringly wrong. I think it's so fascinating what
you're saying, Crystal about how you need to like circumnavigate
that scene and that plot point in order to feel
like you are celebrating this movie in a way that
feels okay. And so the presence of that is just like, well,
that's an indefensible thing, and especially that it had such

(01:52:53):
a real life impact, it's so bizarre. I mean, I
guess I'm also taking into account the history of the
movie where it's like they're trying to do the thing,
but then they're also like doing the thing that they
claim to be commenting on, which is always kind of messy,
and any I feel like That's true of many movies
that are attempting to comment on showbiz where they're like, Wow,

(01:53:13):
the world's greatest showbiz commentary and they didn't pay their editors,
and you're like, well, what's the point of this then,
So there is like a little bit of that syndrome
going on. But yeah, I am pretty into know Me,
I love Know Me, I love Crystal, I love the dancing,
and I love I Mean. It's problematic in every way

(01:53:36):
you can imagine. And I also like, it's so easy
to understand why people love this movie and want to
continue to celebrate it, and there are things that make
it hard to do. And these these things are are
both very true. So I'm going to go to nipples
and I'm going to give them both to cars that

(01:53:56):
know Me kicks his slaps, Those poor cars, Those poor cars,
non binary icon, those cars. Crystal.

Speaker 1 (01:54:07):
How about you? What do you say?

Speaker 4 (01:54:09):
I think that there is an alternate universe, as you've
both described, where this movie did not destroy a bunch
of women's careers and it doesn't have a brutal rape scene,
and we could give it three or four nipples. That
is not the world that we live in. And I
think I'm gonna be harsher just because I have my

(01:54:31):
own residual guilt about how much I have previously, unquestioningly
loved this movie. And I'm going to give it one nipple?
And where am I going to give it? Different places?

Speaker 1 (01:54:45):
Where are you from, Nomi? Different places?

Speaker 4 (01:54:48):
Different places?

Speaker 1 (01:54:51):
Well, Crystal, thank you so much for joining us. This
has been an absolute treat. Come back any time.

Speaker 4 (01:54:59):
I've really really loved it. Thank you so much for
having me. Oh, you've both become my strange parasocial friends,
so that's quite weird for me.

Speaker 1 (01:55:07):
Now we're real friends.

Speaker 4 (01:55:08):
Now we're real friends. Yay. True?

Speaker 1 (01:55:15):
Where can people check out your work? Follow you on
social media?

Speaker 3 (01:55:18):
Etc?

Speaker 4 (01:55:19):
Is it too soon to do another different places joke?

Speaker 1 (01:55:22):
Or no? Keep going.

Speaker 4 (01:55:26):
You can listen to my podcasts The Things That Made
Me Queer wherever those podcasts can be found. But it's
a I interview different special guests about pop culture things
that help them understand their queer identities. So things like
show Girls come up a lot. If you want to
hear us talk about Catwoman or Jean Claude van Dam
doing the Splits, all these kinds of things. It's the

(01:55:48):
podcast for you and other than that. Yeah, go check
out my Instagram or my Twitter wherever else I'm sharing nonsense,
it's Crystal will see you now on all those platforms.

Speaker 1 (01:56:00):
Wonderful.

Speaker 3 (01:56:00):
Thank you so much for coming on again. This was
so much fun. Where is the where's the coming joke?
What is it against? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:56:09):
Is it weird to it was?

Speaker 4 (01:56:11):
Yeah, it was weird not having anyone come on, but
I'm glad I was here.

Speaker 1 (01:56:15):
If we could promise one thing on the Bechel Cast,
we will not come on people.

Speaker 3 (01:56:21):
We've just never. We've just it's just never. It's it
would be unprecedented right on the show.

Speaker 1 (01:56:29):
You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at Bechtel Cast. Also,
we always forget to plug this, but our link tree
has things such as our letterbox to count Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:56:45):
I was like, do we plug link tree? Is that
a thing? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:56:48):
But it's an avenue by which you can find other
things of ours, such as our Patreon Yeah, where you
can get two bonus episodes every single month, plus access
to the back catalog. We do fun themes, or I
think they're fun. Hopefully other people do too.

Speaker 3 (01:57:09):
I was like, is that an attack on me? No?

Speaker 1 (01:57:12):
No, no, I I'm maybe being too confident. I'm not
sure not this.

Speaker 3 (01:57:17):
I think they're fun unlike this bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:57:22):
Go get me a beer.

Speaker 3 (01:57:24):
No, I won't say that's how that was triggering for me,
because that's how Caitlin talks to me.

Speaker 1 (01:57:29):
You have no idea what happens off Mike listeners.

Speaker 3 (01:57:33):
It's shocking.

Speaker 1 (01:57:35):
Anyway. Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast five dollars a month,
do it?

Speaker 3 (01:57:41):
Well, how do we end this? Let's get in out,
Let's get in a car merch also, oh yeah, get
get merch Teapublic dot com slash the Bechdel Cast. Honestly,
we don't get a lot of money from that, so
you do whatever you want.

Speaker 1 (01:57:54):
True, we're not good at selling ourselves.

Speaker 3 (01:57:57):
If you want it, you should get it. If you
don't want it, you're basically just handing money to iHeartRadio,
which is interesting. And on that note.

Speaker 1 (01:58:08):
Yeah, let's get in the car and that we've hit
and then hitchhike with Jeff to different places.

Speaker 4 (01:58:19):
Different place.

Speaker 3 (01:58:19):
That is a very cursed I mean, there's a cursed
nineties rom common. They're somewhere of like they keep passing
this this suitcase back and forth. When are these two
kids gonna figure it out.

Speaker 4 (01:58:32):
The only thing they have in common is they both
don't like Garth Brooks.

Speaker 3 (01:58:37):
And yet we're gonna spend the next two hours telling
you that they were made for each other.

Speaker 1 (01:58:43):
Okay, Bye,