Sleepless in Seattle with Andy Iwancio

Caitlin and Jamie live in different cities, but they decide to meet up at the Empire State Building so they can discuss Sleepless in Seattle with special guest Andy Iwancio!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Dog Cast. The questions asked, movies have wenenuum?
Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands do? And
that start changing it? Come on, Welcome to the back Dodecasts. Yay,

(00:21):
my name is Jamie, my name is Caitlin, and this
is our second Seattle live episode of the back Gas.
A lot of familiar faces. Thank you. I changed velvet
suits because I care and I do have many velvet suits.

(00:42):
Gotta get airtime for all of them on our audio podcast.
I'm in the same outfit, so I'm in the same crocks,
so we choices were made. Welcome to the show. Yes, welcome,
Um clap if you are a listener of the Bechtel Cast,

(01:07):
and uh yeah, is there anyone here who came with
a friend and who hasn't heard the show before? Okay,
we go one A shaking hand rose in the audience.
This is okay. So Caitlin and I when we go
to do live shows in various cities, we have so
far never done a movie that takes place in the city.

(01:31):
In fact, we always do movies that take place in
the absolute wrong city, and people are how you say,
angry about this movie? We did? This did Princess Diaries
in New York. That's a movie about San Francisco. Correct,
we did in San Francisco. We did the Breakfast Club
takes place in a suburb of Chicago. I think the

(01:51):
easiest way to get us to do the correct movie
in the correct city is to put the name of
the city in the title, although we could have done
this movie be in New York. So it's Sleepless in Seattle.
Is the name of the mover doing my rond of applause?
Who has seen the movie? And? Uh? Which which Seattle? Light?

(02:16):
Is that? Right? That's fun to say, Uh which Seattle?
I is the holdout and has not seen Sleepless in Seattle.
We've got some edgeloords and the crawd I love it
when you think about it, Caitlin, and I feel like
I'm about to really polarize the audience. But when you

(02:37):
think about it canonically, is Seattle a spinoff of Boston? Um?
Because that's what I'm I don't mean like culturally, Jesus,
I mean Frasier spun off Cheers, Seattle spun off Boston.

(03:00):
It's cannon. I see. That's just my hot take for
the evening. Well, I'm sure we'll talk about this. But
despite this movie taking place at least partly in Seattle,
this movie barely is about Seattle. Like it. She seems
to be mostly Sleepless in Baltimore in New York. Yeah,

(03:24):
shall we bring our guests, Yes, we should. Our guest
is awesome. She is a local Seattle comedian. She runs
a weekly show at this very space, the Rendezvous called
Comedy Nest, and she recently opened for Cameron Esposito. Give
it up for Andy. I want Ceo, I want CEO,

(03:45):
want I packed it up. I want Ceo. Lookome Hi
to be here. To make it very you actually have
to pass a test to begin speaking. I thought you
were gonna like ask to play the piano, kind of
Billy Joel's situation. Suddenly pianos wheeled up and you're we're

(04:08):
going to see if you're on the pod. Well, thank
you so much for being here. Tell us about your
history and your relationship with Sleepless in Seattle. Historically, I've
lived in Baltimore as well as Seattle, and this biopic

(04:31):
kind of it kind of works out if you think
about it as gender, but the other one. Anyway, I
worked on the harbor right where she like sulks on
a bench for most of the movie. Sure, romantically, it's

(04:57):
one of the postcard she stares, Wow, Okay. And then
I worked on a ferry that went around that harbor,
and so you'd give like a fake tour to people
to get tips. And so they had installed these lamp
posts that weren't really ever there, but they saw them
for the movie. Yeah, install them there in the movie.

(05:19):
You can see them. They look old timey and stuff.
When people have budgets, they just do like funked up
random things. Right now, when they were shooting the wire
in Baltimore actually had to install dilapidated houses because like
not all the neighborhoods had them, or like they created

(05:39):
bus stops. It was pretty hilarious. They did everything the
city couldn't do. But my partner pointed out that he
worked on the same ferry and then he was working
on some pirate ship that went around Seattle's harbor, and
then he realized he spent most of his summer meaning

(06:00):
out the house from Sleepless since Seattle. So he's really
got the connection. I I sleep next to him, so
that's like contacts. Yeah, that's the transitive reperty. Next to
someone who has the info, you also have the info.

(06:20):
That's how it works. We're both trans so we just
it just happens. Yeah, it's it's like a vulturoun of ambiguity. Well,
to bring up the fight Club episode, which we recently did,
it's like Tyler knows this, so I know this. Yeah,
that's the same thing. When did you first see list?

(06:43):
I honestly seen bits and pieces of it at like
family gatherings for a long time. It wasn't until it
like really sat down to watch it a couple of
weeks ago that I really like sat through the whole thing. Yeah,
it was very interesting. You're not wrong, I have I

(07:05):
have no notes for I had never seen it. Um. Sorry,
I can feel myself getting sick currently. That's my fault.
And also I'm better. Oh no, I had never seen
this movie before until like a week ago when we
started prepping for this tour. Yeah, it just it's not

(07:27):
the type of movie that I would ever seek out.
Our friend Katherine, I know. I'm so sorry. Our friend Catherine,
who I watch a lot of movies with, had been
trying to get me to watch this movie for like
a year, and meanwhile I was like making her watch
Paddington and stuff, and I kept refusing, but I did

(07:49):
often posit theories as to what the movie might be about.
UM So I was like, Yeah, it's about how Meg
Ryan owns a bookstore in Seattle and Tom Hanks Ellen's
a bigger bookstore called Amazon, and and they are fighting
about it, but then they start emailing and they're falling

(08:14):
in love over email. Well I know that now because
I had also never seen You've Got Mail, and Catherine
was always trying to get me to watch that, but
they called You've Got Email. That's my only note for
that movie. Otherwise, perfect piece of feminist text. What's your

(08:34):
history with Sleepless in Seattle? Um? I kept sort of
came to this movie in a in a bizarre reverse way.
I before I saw any of Nora Fron's movies. I
saw the documentary about her That Everything Is Copied documentary,
which was really good, and she's like a fascinating figure
with some serious blind spots. But I first like became

(08:57):
interested in Nora Fron and then went back maybe about
a year or two ago, and like started watching back
all of her movies. We did when Harry met Sally
on the podcast. I had to watch it then, and
I watched sleep List in Seattle for the first time,
maybe a year or two ago, and I was like, oh, no,
you know, because I very much love Nora Fron and

(09:21):
yet this movie Oh no, you know, yeah, so you
know it was It was weird because it was like
like falling in love with an artist and then two
days later being like, what have you done to me?
It was a real fling I had with Nora f Bron,
and she let me down almost immediately. Sorry, it's okay,

(09:43):
you know she's dead son in power. So I showed
her I'm alive. Oh okay, that's one way to look
at her. Okay. So oh yeah, this is now the
roast of Nora Affront. Is this a normal part of

(10:04):
the show where you say whether or not you've beaten somebody. No,
But it's now a part of the show where I
roast everyone who can't roast me back because I'm a coward.
I'm still somewhat of a Nora Affront stand and I like,
I like a lot of what she represents, and she

(10:25):
did pave a lot of paths for future female writers
and filmmakers, and I don't want to disk. I mean,
I have a whole thing, but I love Nora upfront.
This movie is yikes. Yes, well let's jump in with
the recap. Okay, So this movie starts out basically the
same exact way that the movie The Rock starts out,

(10:47):
because it's Tom Hanks staring at a gravestone that might
as well say his wife Key has just died. And
he's more much like The Rock when Ed Harris, he's
sort of yelling at the grave. Yeah, why do these
men yell at the gravestones of their recently diseased and

(11:12):
Edwards this case, it's raining heavily, so he's yelling through
the weather to the grave. This is where you can
start the drinking game of like if you take a
shot every time you see something famous that should be
on a postcard. Like the entire movie is just shots
of stuff. Even Chicago seems to raise up like it's

(11:33):
trying to check out what's happening. The buildings come up
over the hill like wood go Away, sis right, the
movie having a moment here there's this weird reveal that
doesn't need to happen where it seems like they're in
like just a grassy, rural grave yard, and then there's

(11:57):
like a tilt that's like, wait a minute, they're near city,
and it's like, who, people in cities aren't supposed to die.
They were like, wait a second, so in this universe
people who live in cities die. It's almost like, well,
there's two ways we can do it. We could just
put Chicago at the bone of the screen. No, that's

(12:18):
not good enough. It needs to t open the entire
skyline here, like a musical number from Chicago, a full
on Dutch ankle. Uh. They do introduce it basically, like
Tom Hanks is like, so, Torecap, my wife is dead

(12:40):
and and the kids like why and he's like that
just happens sometimes. And the kids like, oh, thank you,
And that's the first thing. Yes, why are they yelling?
I don't know, but Tom Hanks spends almost the rest
of the movie yelling still he's an America sweetheart, are

(13:00):
really fucking creepy and mean in this movie. So he
is his wife has just died of cancer, and he
is heartbroken because they were very much in love. Yeah,
and he decides that he needs a change of scenery
because everything in Chicago reminds him of his wife, and

(13:23):
again it's another famous part of Chicago. It's them going
into Wriggley Stadium. It's just another postcard that Oprah is
throwing a pitch, like why is this happening? So he
takes his young son, Jonah, and they moved to Seattle.

(13:45):
I ever heard of it. The cast member of Fraser
in this movie lives in Baltimore, which is But then
here's my theory. They heard David Hyde Pierce say utter
the words Seattle and they're like, now, hold on a second.
We've got to get this guy in a Seattle based
piece of media, and that's why he won all those Emmy's. Yeah,

(14:09):
good theory, thank you. Okay. So we cut to eighteen
months later, we are in Baltimore. We meet Annie, that's
Meg Ryan's character. Also Tom Hanks is His character's name
is Sam, so probably going to call him Tom Hanks.
So Annie ak Meg Ryan has just gotten engaged to Walter.

(14:30):
That's built maman. But he is a dweeb who is
allergic to everything, so we don't like him. We give
we can get into this Nora Fron school of man
who is addicted to you and faithful to you above
all others. Yet he has an allergy is repulsive. Oh no,

(14:53):
he's into a roma therapy. Dear Lord, our bedroom is
so moist at night, at comfortable, it smells like lavender.
I need to divorce this man, this sexy man who
doesn't care when I'm essentially cheating on him. She is

(15:15):
driving in her car and she's flipping through the radio
and she hears a kid she's yelling. She's yelling at
the radio. Oh true, Yeah, She's like, better change the channel, Like,
what is who's the sound guy on this There's no
rhythm in this movie. If you watch The Christmas Care
because I was literally watching it before it came here,

(15:37):
and she does not sound like she's ever saying a
Christmas carol before. She's like ging tone deaf Meg Ryan, Well,
she's if she's yelling at radio, she's kind of like us,
like we're always, you know, criticizing media. So she sucks
in this movie though, and we're cool good yeah. Yeah.

(16:03):
So she's driving in a car, she is listening to
the radio and she here's a kid call into a
radio show. This kid being Jonah Sam's son, and he
speaks with Dr Marcia who's like an advice radio host person,
and he's like, my Christmas wish is for my dad

(16:25):
to have a new his wife wife. So then Jonah
puts his dad on the phone and they talked to
Dr Marcia about his wife. Yeah. But then also like
Tom Hanks is back and forth in this movie, and
like he's either very endearing on the radio or yelling
at his son on the radio, which is like read

(16:48):
the room, dumbass, Like why are you yelling at your
son on national radio. It doesn't stop like two thousand
women from being like he seems like the greatest I
in the world. I mean, speaks to their judgment of character,
because Jesus Christ, he's yelling at his son the whole

(17:09):
I'm gonna get your David. He's so dreamy. So he's
talking to the lady and he's like, I can't sleep
at night. I am sleepless. I live in Seattle. And
that's where we get the Dr Marcia. Annie, who is listening,
is like, Wow, this guy seems nice. She's like she

(17:33):
as wrecks her car. She says like three or four
words at the same time as him, and she thinks
he's kids met like this whole movie is like, is
love connected to the power of coincidence? And that is
I'm just like, no, it's it's much in the same

(17:55):
way that like, it's the least common denominator of things
happening in the world. It's like if you pick up
a paper clip and you think somewhere else in the world,
somebody's picking up a paper clip, and I'm like, I'm
supposed to be with that person. It's just such a
low bar for connection in the world. It's like Magrin,

(18:16):
if you want to break up with Bill Palman, many
people would be honored to have him, So just break
up with him, not go through this insane Oh god,
I can't wait to apply the bush Em test to
this movie. Although in this case it's a female character,
I's gonna call it the Stevia. Stevie is still a

(18:38):
woman's name, so you could be this. It's going to
be the Stevie Stevia because it's a what is it.
It's a sugar substitute. Okay, I don't know, I might
be poisoned. Who knows. So she's like, yeah, this guy
seems great, and then she goes into a diner and
they're all like Wow, he seems right. And then there

(19:01):
are like many women calling into the radio show and
they're like, wow, he seems great. And then she gets
very emotionally invested in this story his story, which is
not interesting. It's like pretty normal. He's yeah, he's a
grieving husband who is not dealing with it well via

(19:21):
screaming at his son all the time, So not inspiring,
actually quite sad, and someone should call and be like,
should be checking on the sun. Like right, I feel
like if you play the movie Big before this, it
feels like a weird sequel. Love this theory. And then like,

(19:42):
except for the Zoltar things kind of like make sure
my dad meet someone else they can kiss. This is
a perfect fan theory. And she's a she's one of
mcgriyan has one of the only jobs women are lawed
to have in this genre, which is journalist. So she

(20:03):
goes to work with her friend and colleague, Becky played
by Rosie o'donnald, and everyone's like, you should turn this
into a story. This is interesting. There's nothing happening in
Baltimore right now. So she's like, yeah, this guy seems great.
I'm going to write a story about him, and then meanwhile,
Sam gets a bunch of letters from horny women who

(20:27):
have heard his story and want to be his wife,
and he's not interested in any of them. So then
Annie goes to her brother Nile Crane a k a.
David Hyde Peers. There's not really much to talk about
Niles's character, so I'll just say here this character's office
that she goes into at some point, what is his job?

(20:50):
Because there's so many wild pis in his office while
he's like love is a construct, but he there's an
oversized typewriter. What says there? There's just a piano and
a harp. There's a large harp, There's there's a grandma phone.
Like I mean that most of the time, when you
have David Hyde Pierce in a movie or TV show,

(21:12):
you just want him flustered in front of antiques, and
this movie delivers on every level. David Hyde Pierce is
in just a room full of Central Casting antiques, and
he's all like, I'm having these fantasies about this guy
who lives in Seattle who I've never met. I'm like

(21:33):
questioning whether or not I want to marry Bill Pullman,
and Niles is just like, do whatever you want love
is a lie and she's like, Okay, you're right, I
just have cold feet and I'm gonna move on. But
the fact that he's like love is a lie and
she's like, Okay, I will get married. Like. Meanwhile, Sam
is talking to his friend I think his name is

(21:55):
Jay Rob Reiner, and Rob Reiner is encouraging him him
to like get back out into the dating. Yeah. He's like,
you've got a nice butt, Tom Hanks, and and they're
talking about dating and how like, you know, Sam should
get back out there, but it's been so long since

(22:17):
he's dated he doesn't know this like changing landscape. And
then Rob Briners are like, well, there's this decorator woman, Victoria.
You should ask her out, so he does. Meanwhile, this
is where it gets really fun. Annie starts to cyberstock
and then really stock Sam, which is ten times it's

(22:39):
hard to do in the sere stalking a special a
lot of large hardware. So I will say there's more
female hacking in this movie. In the nineties. There is
nobody says I'm in which I was going to say,

(23:01):
representation wise is piss poor for the hackers. She needs
to say she dares well she's in, is she not?
That's a consent thing. You gotta say it. First of all,
Hacker should have designy to computers. May I enter, and

(23:26):
if the computer enthusiastically consents, they can say I'm in. Well,
it acted like it was like print yes or her factors.
I think we've all we've all met somebody off a
Craigslist and gone, what's your factors? So Annie is like,

(23:47):
I can't get this guy out of my mind, and
she writes him a letter to both Sam and Jonah
and she's like, hey, let's meet on Valentine's Day in
New York City at the Empire's Day Building. On the
top of it, she proposes the third act of the
movie Yes, And then Jonah reads a letter and he's like, wow,

(24:08):
I really like the sound of her. But Sam is like,
but Rosie o'donald sends it. Meg Ryan's like, right, because
it's scary. Right, we've all written a scary letter and
then not sent it. That's relatable. I've done that many times.
That's the whole premise of To All the Boys I've
Loved Before. Everyone's written a scary letter and then read

(24:30):
it back and then been like, hold on, have I
become a person I hate. But Rosie o'donald sends Rosio
donald sends it, and then Sam reads it, but he
dismisses her as a romantic option because she lives in
Baltimore and it's too far away from Seattle. Out of
all the many examples there are to reject her as

(24:50):
a romantic option in that letter, he chooses distance. Well,
he doesn't know that she is stalking him, which she
starts to really double down on because first of all,
she hires a detective, very unsubtle detective, yeah, to like
take photos of him and like spy on him on
his date with Victoria. So Sam starts dating Victoria, which

(25:14):
upsets Jonah because he's all about your new his wife
should be Annie, this random lady who I read a
terrifying letter from, like says, oh my god. Oh but
and and also the reason we're not supposed to like
Victoria is because she laughs. Yeah, she has a sense
of humor. She is too expressive, and Jonah likes his

(25:38):
mother's silent and meg Ryan Again, when you see the
private detective like lean over the balcony at them, and
he's like zooming in the cameras so loud it sounds
like a car back ago. It's like and also that

(26:00):
shot zooming in. Tom Hanks is acting wild on this
first day. He's like moving his head around. It's like,
what are you talking about? And then he feeds her,
which you're like, okay, okay, setting a weird president for
this relationship. Everything about that reads like a child in
a man's body. Yes, right, he wouldn't know a grown woman. Yeah,

(26:27):
this is this is a good theory. If someone tried
to fade me on a first date, I would commit
arson be very upset. So meanwhile, Annie is like, well,
if I'm going to write this story that I think
is interesting, I better go to Seattle. So she this
is funding from work, I guess. And then she's getting

(26:52):
off her plane at the airport, just as coincidentally, Sam
is seeing off Victoria for a trip that she's going on.
And so Sam sees Annie and he's like, hubba, hubba,
who is that? And then Annie proceeds to follow him
to the beach, follow him to another beach, spy on him,

(27:15):
lurk around standing house. She has found out his address.
She goes to his house and then sees him like
playing with his son, and then she's like, what a
nice guy. I love him. She's too far away to
see that Tom Hanks is probably yelling at that's what's

(27:35):
making the boat show. And then they do come face
to face and they say hello to each other, but
she has just seen him be really excited to see
his friends. Susie played by Rita Wilson, Tom Hanks's real
life his wife and then his sister and not no,

(27:58):
I'm not saying his wife is his sister. Oh my god.
Isn't Susy supposed to be his sister or maybe his friends.
I think he's supposed to be sister. I didn't realize that,
and that's why it's like double ridiculous. And it's like
you thought his sister was his wife. But but it
also like he does hug her like it's his wife, yes,

(28:21):
and that's why Annie is confused. So she's like, oh, man,
he's got a girlfriend. I'm just gonna go back to
Baltimore and forget all about this Sleepless in Seattle. But
then Jonah buys a flight to New York with the
help of tiny Gabby Hoffman, and he goes to the

(28:41):
Empire State Building to look for Annie and like waits around,
and then Sam realizes that his son is missing because
he's a bad father and he does not keepings like
I'm yelling and no one is crying. He is my son.

(29:01):
This is how I find out if my son's homes.
You let me down. That's sun sonar. So he goes
chasing after him, goes to New York City. Meanwhile, Annie
and Walter are having like Valentine's dinner and she's just like,

(29:22):
we gotta break up because you have allergies and and
he's like okay, he's so chill about so he takes it.
I'm like, what is going on with Bill Palm? It's
his allergy medication. It's affecting his emotional response. So then

(29:43):
she goes to the Empire State Building and then Sam
is arriving there around the same time to get Jonah,
but they like just miss each other. But wait, Jonah
left his backpack, so he and Sam go back and
then they see Annie rand M lady who could be anyone,

(30:05):
but they're like, are you Annie, and she's like yeah,
So then they hold hands and are in love, and
then there's a bad c g I shot of the
Empire staple day, it's so bad, it's really funny. And
then we're like, and that is sleepless in Seattle. It

(30:27):
ends in New York. Why couldn't they have chosen a
building in Seattle is a good question. Yea, the space Needle. Realistically,
this movie would have ended with Jonah being kidnapped and
Tom Hanks living out the rest of his days wishing

(30:49):
he hadn't yelled at his son so much. This was
more of a take into the situation than anything. But okay,
so here's the thing with this movie. It's an all
female reboot of The Stalking Trip. I think it's great. Yes,

(31:11):
it feels like a pretty standard you know, nineties rom com,
you know, upon first glance, but with with a few exceptions.
Which is that unlike a lot of movies where a
woman feels like she needs a man to feel complete
or other people are telling her that she needs a
man to be complete, this right, well, this movie is

(31:36):
about a boy telling a man that he needs a wife.
So that's like sort of a subversion of I mean,
in in in Jona's case, it's a cry for help
because he's like, my dad, can we get anyone else
in this house? Like that? Used to me what he's asking,

(31:59):
did y'all have his much fun with how that kid
is like his roommate and every Nora f from maybe
one of the Nora Front troupes that is so annoying
and it's like just a little wise child trope. I'm
so am like this kid would be sneezing on things,
he would be sticky, right. There are a number of

(32:21):
scenes where he's like, yeah, women scratch up men's backs
during sex. I've seen it on cable and then and
the message of that is like, whoa Nora f Fron
just roasted cable? You're like And then Tom Hanks is
like mumbling to himself and he's like, I've fun six, no,

(32:44):
seven women in college and then he sees it as
Sanders right there and he's like, how long have you
been there? And he's like, I've heard you had sex
with seven women and he's like it was eight. Actually
I remembered another one. So you screaming about all the
women's college. Also, he has that a whole storyline is like, son,

(33:05):
get out of my way so I can fuck someone.
He's so annoyed with his son. He's like son, it's
almost like he could set up boundary. He makes no effort. Yeah,
I mean to like, there's nothing good about this movie,
but also there's everything good about this So it's it's confusing,

(33:29):
but that it's like, we do get to see a
male character grieve to some extent. The way he grieves
is very toxic and mostly by yelling at his son um.
There is at least a grieving narrative. I feel like
a lot of the time men are not like part

(33:49):
of word to believe the reason that women are attracted
to him is because he is grieving his wife at all. Yeah,
Like she's like, oh, I've got to be with him.
If I eyed, he'd be piste. So the real big subversion,
the actual huge subversion of this movie when it comes

(34:11):
to like, you know, the romcom genre, is that it's
the woman stalking the man this time, which we've painted
at already. But do not stalk, Just do not unless
it's just on Instagram on a fake account that you
have and then stuck away. Baby sixty seven. I just

(34:38):
made like a quick list of all the things that
she does. She calls around to figure out how to
get in touch with the radio show. Then she calls
the radio show to get his phone number. She calls
his phone number, it gets his last name, does a
very old Google search slash like hacker thing to search
for him, figures out that he's an architect because computer

(35:00):
it right, and then hires someone to do the background
check and to take photos of him. Then she flies
to Seattle, shows up at his house. He's not there.
She follows him on his boat, lurks around nearby, you know,
watches him a day passes, does the exact same thing
where she follows him on a boat. So what I'm

(35:21):
hearing is she has a lot of agency, so it's
very independent. She's a very aspective character. Yeah, and and
and the subtext to why women are lusting after Tom Hanks,
a man who is truly doing the bare minimum of

(35:44):
grieving his wife, is that women. I mean, there's this
whole sub text to this movie that women would do
anything to be shown genuine love from a man. Because
it's like we see even though Meg Ryan's character is
receiving that for most of the movie, and then she's like, nah,

(36:08):
I want a man, I know, yells at his son. Right.
The idea is that like all women, no matter what
their circumstances are are just like desperate and like horny
and just like need a man that they'll like send

(36:28):
letters to a man they've never met. Something that has
brought up a lot in this movie, and I wanted
to give some hot context for us, is there is
a statistic that has cited several points in this movie,
uh saying that you know, it's easier to get killed
by a terrorist and get married after forty So does
anyone know the backstory for this? Oh? Mensa? All right?

(36:55):
So Nora, So this was a story that was published
in Newsweek magazine, where Nora Ffron worked for a long
time and successfully sued at one point because they were sexist,
which there is a terrible Amazon Prime series about if
anyone cares. But there was a cover story that I

(37:17):
believe is in the mid seventies published in Newsweek that
I think Nora Efron is trying to comment on the
in this movie because she hates Newsweek magazine because she
sued them. But they published a cover story about how
women over forty were fucked like that was what the
story was. It was all false statistics. There was like
Newsweek later had to retract the story, but even so

(37:40):
because the story came out and came out at a
time where apparently everyone was reading Newsweek, there were charts.
It was written by wait for it all men, and
it was saying that like single women after a certain
point in their life just basically become defunct. And there
was this chart that said, like, you're more likely for
this to happen, You're more likely for this to happen,

(38:01):
and the more likely to be killed by a terrorist
thing was the thing everyone remembered. So what Nora Fron
is trying to do is roast Newsweek Because Nora Fron,
if you're a fan of hers, is notoriously very petty,
which is why I love her. If you watch if
you learn anything about her, and then watch one of

(38:22):
her movies, you're like, there she goes again. She can't
let anything go, which I can relate with um in
in any case. That's why that is like cited in
this script over and over, even though they don't make
that clear. It's weird because it's like we first hear
that statistics said by Meg Ryan's male co workers, right,

(38:46):
and then Megrian every time it said. The woman in
this scene says that's not true because they're supposed to
be Nora Ffron's pettiness, and they're right, it's not true.
But I feel like there's a lot of there's a
few different male characters written into this script that are
like cartoonishly misogynist so that Meg Ryan will look chill,

(39:08):
which she's not. Yeah, I feel like the movie makes
an attempt to show any man who says this statistic
to show them to be stupid, stupid, you know, and
like Victor Garber, who Titanic Connection is so handsome, well,

(39:30):
like Rerida Wilson's character is like, that's not true. That's statistic,
it is not true, and then he's just like yeah, okay.
And my read was like the movie is trying to
make them seem like idiot assholes, but I don't know,
it felt like it wasn't because even so, like every
time it's employed, the female character is like, that's not true,
but she's still made out to look ridiculous because the

(39:52):
scene where Rita Wilson's like, that's not true, she's still
sobbing about what sounds like a very troubling movie. Right, Yeah, Yeah,
the men there may just seem like idiots, but at
the same time, the women in the movie are all
portrayed to be like, I need love from a man,
or more love from a man, because we've got Meg
Ryan's character, who is in a committed relationship that seems

(40:14):
to be caring, but then she's like, but he's not
good enough, and I need more romance from God. The
in most Nora Ron movies, her vibe is very much like,
I'm going to make men and women equally irrational and
neurotic and impossible to understand their rationale for everything, And

(40:35):
that's true. Equality is everyone's out of their minds. That's true.
Everyone's yelling at their sun. Just Tom Hanks is yelling
at his son. Okay, he's since fence time yelling at hair.
It suns a roommate. Son is not his son. It's
not his forty son is forty. They're like sitting in

(40:58):
an egg shaped you're listening to the Beatles back courts.
Do you like glance over most of the things that
like a fifty year old would do with the person
he met from a record store, because that's a I
do like that Jonah's best friend is a girl, because

(41:22):
I feel like there's not that much representation on screen
of like you know, a young boy and young girl
being friends and she and she also is like smart
and you know, although she also sobs at this this
troubling movie, she's she's a hacker as well. Yeah, where
she and she knows how to get the tickets. She's
basically like ninety three StubHub like she knows how to

(41:46):
get the tickets and how to get him on the plane,
and she sets up the whole itinerary and then she's like, okay,
time to die probably like and then she withholds information
about where he is so that he certainly does. But
the movie has a happy ending. One of the big

(42:06):
things I noticed about this movie is that the characters
within Sleepless in Seattle are very influenced by other media
and other movies. And you know, the carry Grant version
of a fair Remember gets referenced a lot. Annie says
something like, you know, she's watching it and she's like,
those were the days when people knew how to be

(42:28):
in love. And Rosier Donald's like, you're you're crazy. It's
a movie. Like that's your problem. You don't want to
be in love. You want to be in love in
a movie. But this movie Sleep listens Seattle is still
it's like the exact same thing. It's still like a
romance movie where you're all we're all tricked into thinking
that love is real watching this dark Caitlin, Oh my god,

(42:54):
so unfair to Remember? I did it deep dive on
So when A Fair to Remember is an important part
of this movie. It's like where the construct of the empire,
state building and the Valentine state comes from. But also
like it turns out there's a lot of stuff that's
from the movie, including like somebody being creepy and taking
pictures of them. It doesn't pass the back tail test.

(43:19):
Surprise from doesn't pass the backdel test, and it's made.
It's actually a remake of another movie called Love Affair
thirty nine. Okay, so we got it's a star is
born basically just that he's remaking it. But here's the
important part. So the important part is in the movie,

(43:41):
the women to cry over it, and then the men
mock the women for crying over the movie and A
Fair to Remember. I get teary eyed and fake upset
about the movie. Dirty dozen. Yes, So I take hormones
and there becomes a period between my dosages of hormones
when I have the most amount of testosterone. So I'm

(44:04):
manned up. I had a beer, I watched football, I
ate a pizza. Then I watched Dirty Dusn't and it
was all right, yeah, this is gonna be another's chuck.
It doesn't pass to me. I know it doesn't. Not

(44:25):
all women. The longest a woman's on screen is someone
getting stabbed. Cool, cool, cool, you know, feminist text. But
then to try and again with a hypothesis. I had
my dosage of estrogen, and then I watched an Affair

(44:46):
to Remember, okay, and I think I timed it wrong.
It just like put me to sleep. It was just
there's a couple kind of there's a couple like musical numbers.
There's musical numbers and all the other Affair to Remember
remakes and it's quasi racist. But the only other thing

(45:07):
that you know is there's another remake of an Affair
to Remember that's in Indian one. So there's a Ballywood
version of an Affair to Remember called Man and that
was three hours long. I watched that one sober. It

(45:28):
has four dance numbers. All good, it passed the back.
But then then I have a new test, which is
finding the movies that are three hours long but still
somehow don't pass the back like there are so there
are more than a few. But I was, yeah, that's

(45:50):
so that was my research. Oh my god, thank you
so and a fair Remember did not make you cry
like it does all of the women in this movie.
You know, I mistimed it because I ended up like
watching My roommates were watching like Stephen Universe the next day,

(46:13):
and I was like in tears, like I was in
I get in tears over the most ridiculous things, like
when I have a head full of Astarton, thank you
for the steep dive that you have. This this is why,
this is why this didn't help you at all. No,

(46:33):
this is this is very good context for the conversation
we're gonna have is content content content. I loved it.
I just don't understand in movies so often that are
like referencing older movies, they kind of keep continually saying
like this is when love was real, back when women
couldn't vote, Like they're like, it's like we see all

(46:55):
these female characters longing for a time when they had
less rites, and and then this movie kind of reinforces
the idea that like, there are certain movies that are
women's movies, and there are certain movies the guys movies,
because like the women are all crying over, including like
Cabby Hoffman are crying over and a fair to remember,

(47:15):
the men are making fun of them. They're saying dirty
doesen't is what I like to watch, Like dirty Doesn't?
Incoming my Name is Victor Garber. It was like Victor
Garber is this is the only role I've ever seen him?
And then I was like, oh, how could you? Like?
He legally blonde? What he's hot in the movie though,

(47:39):
it's like he's not, so I forgive anything. Um. In
this movie he was wearing an outfit that no I was.
I was like, I could take your leave this look,
and he was being horrible. So I did like the
constant acronyms from the kids, like h why didn't that stick?

(48:04):
And then there's the weird part where like Jonah is
talking about reincarnation and the possibility reincarnation and how he
could be reincarnated from another another plane, like this kid
is on mushrooms. He's listening to Penles records backwards and

(48:25):
talking about reincarnation. It's it's probably that we like find
out that he's thirty six and adopted and we're just
seeing him from an outside person. One more thing where
there is a character is influenced by movie is Sam
talks about fatal Attraction and how it scared the ship

(48:45):
out of him. He's like scared the shot out of
me and every man in America, and he cites that
as a reason to not go and meet Annie in
New York City, which doesn't make sense because it has
nothing to do with fatal attraction. And you can literally
it was just so dumb of like a line that
it's like remember that movie that's semi recent, and so
the movie practically like pauses for laughs. Everyone could be

(49:08):
like fatal attraction, women who want careers are scary, like um,
but it has nothing to do with fatal attraction. It's
the same punchline that's like this is at a time
when the crying game is still used as a punch
line for reveal about a trans Yeah, like this is
this is a big time like Craig game and like

(49:30):
we're supposed to laugh. There were so many it was like, yeah,
there were so many like transplanic movies from the like uh,
silence of the Lambs, and then earlier was Sleepaway Camp.
Like there's a line where Rosie O'Donnell says the falling
the guy could be a crackhead, a transvestay. Yeah, that'd

(49:53):
be trouble. Oh no, there's more work to do. Yeah.
This is still in the middle of like trans women
are dangerous. This is like the hot part of the nineties. Yeah,
we're now we're in danger. How progressive can we talk

(50:16):
about the map graphic that seems to happen. It's like
you can go to the you can go to the
bathroom and then come back. I know it's still going across.
I like I think that that was like, first of all,
this movie, it does take place in too many things,
so I found it helpful. Um, and I kind of

(50:38):
like when movies are like, let's assume everyone seeing this
movie is an absolute idiot and they like can't remember
that because I am that viewer and it was helpful
for me. I don't know how how worth it is
to talk about this, but there is discussion of like
the changing landscape of dating that the Sam character has

(51:02):
to deal with, because like Tom Hanks and Rob Brenner's
characters are talking about you know, like Sam's got to
get back out there. Boys are getting some bruise, and
they're talking about it's there is a moment where we
we alluded to this earlier, but they talk about Tom
Hanks's but and I feel like a lot of movies would,

(51:22):
like especially from this era, would have taken that opportunity
to do like no homo, I don't know if you're
attractive or not, like but Rob Briners like, I think
it's a good butt and say thanks. I thought that
was genuinely cute. Even upon rewatching, I thought it was
very cute. It was like, all right, you get me right,
But then Rob Brener is like, well, nowadays you split

(51:46):
the check with your day. And then Sam's like, I
don't think I could ever let a woman pay for dinner.
So he is not a feminist icon. But also if
a man is like that, like take his money you like,
so like if a guy gets all fucking scary white
and I was like no, but Tom I was like,

(52:07):
all right, man, I will get more like dipshit. And
then he works up the nerve to call Victoria, who
is called a hoe in this movie, like time like
treated so terrible. She did nothing wrong. No, she did

(52:28):
is enjoy herself. She just giggled here and there when
Tom Hanks made a goof It's it's the same like treatment.
If you like go back and watch an episode at Steinfeld,
You're like, that person just has one thing that makes
them quirky and they're exaggerate so much as a reason

(52:48):
to like break up with that. Yeah, And that's like
one of the things that I saw that Tom Hanks
and Meg Ryan's character actually had in common is that
they would write off what seems like a positive relationship
based on one thing such as laughing or allergies. Yeah,
I'm like, oh, they deserve each other. They're horrible. They're

(53:08):
both basically George Costanza. Yes, like I'm fine sleeping in
a room with a humidifier. That's kind, that can be
rather nice. Who doesn't like a rainforest? Yeah? If I
feel I feel for Victoria in this movie, because she
truly seems like she really likes him. For quite some time,

(53:31):
it seems like he likes her as well. But it's
like Jonah just goes rogue, like he's just he hates her.
It is so unclear. He just is like, no, I
want scary lady. Now and like he just goes totally rogue.
He's on mushrooms. Then the kid goes full in so

(53:53):
because then whenever he does work up the nerve to
call Victoria and like ask her out that phone conversation
we only hear sam side of it, but it's clear
that like she's calling all the shots, like she's deciding
where to go to dinner, what time they're gonna go,
they're going to meet there, rather than like him picking
her up, and like her being just a decisive woman
who knows what she wants is framed by the movie

(54:16):
is being like, oh, no, she's scary and weird, so
I didn't like to but she Yeah, It's like she's
truly just out here trying to have a job in
a relationship. Okay, leave Victoria alone. And she says like,
I'm so glad you called me. I thought night you
were never going to call. And it's like, I call him.

(54:36):
I hope she and Bill Pullman met each other, because
that's a lovely story, isn't me? Or is Bill Pullman
looked like face from the A team for most of them?
Don't I don't know? I this is peek Bill Pullman
for metely. I mean, he's firing on all cylinders here.

(54:58):
He's about to reach week Bill Pullman, which canonically is
Daddy and Casper, that is he his character. I it
sucks because he truly did nothing wrong, but it's just
like any I don't know. In some ways, I feel
like it's punishing him for any sort of gentleness and

(55:21):
like making out gentleness and a man to be emasculating
and a weakness. And something that Meg Ryan seems to
find completely repulsive is that when he is affectionate towards her,
she's like, oh, and she gets in the closet with
her radio and or you know, the fact that he
has any illness makes her you know, and and I

(55:47):
don't know. It's it's just so bizarre the way this
character is treated. But Victoria's treated much the same way
of like she's doing nothing wrong. She seems to be
invested in the relationship, and they're just both treated like dogshit.
But the thing that Bill Pullman's character is that scene
at the end where Meg Ryan, can you imagine someone

(56:08):
you are about to marry? Sits you down and says, okay,
So there's this radio show on Valentine's day. It's literally
like if someone in this audience, like if there's a
couple here who's about to get married, and then one
of you sat the other one down, and it was like,
so there's this podcast called the Backdoorcast. I was gonna

(56:29):
update it further. It's like, so I met somebody on
Snapchat or Okay, It's like, okay, if I say I'm
getting married, I sit the person I'm getting married down
and I'm like, listen, I heard this show called The
Joe Rogan Experience, and I have to marry Joe Rogan

(56:50):
today and and and my partner was like, I totally interested.
We've already figured out the wedding favor is going to
be a d MT. Yeah. His reaction is so accommodating.
That is he on mushrooms. I just feel so badly

(57:12):
for for him. There could be a super cut of
all of the partners of the different main couples across
these movies, just totally piecing out from the relationship totally amicably,
and it was ridiculous. It's third different levels of like, no,
go ahead, I just want you to be happy, like

(57:37):
no one wants Meg Ryan to be happy. Alternative he
like captured her and he's like, you're mine. No, No,
I think the alternative is like, Okay, this fucking sucks.
But if this is what you have to do, I
guess fuck off. Like he could speak to her as
if he were frustrated, but she's doing is obnoxious and unhinged.

(58:04):
So there is a weird trope that I need. If
you have more examples of this trope, please shout it out.
But ghost of his Wife trope appears in this movie.
It also happens in Casper with ghost Daddy Bill Pullman,
the only person hotter in Caspar. Then Bull Pullman is

(58:25):
Bill Pullman's ghost during the part where Bill Hallman's a ghost.
But yeah, Tom Hanks's wife comes over. She's in a nightgown,
she's got a glass of wine, like, and Tom Hanks
is just like, I miss you, my wife, and she's
like it's okay. But we agree that they're like in

(58:48):
Seattle by that point, right, Yes, the ghost had to
get on a plane, Like the ghost came with them,
Like there's an old chest of she guided and you're like,
I know this fella killed her. Well let's just keep
it around. That was just like a weird extension of

(59:09):
his wife. Trope is like she just came to deposit
a piece of wisdom and to basically give him permission
to fuck Meg Ryan at some point, um, which is
you know, I mean she was already her headstone has
already been yelled at by Tom hankson to add insult
to injury, they got a flyer ghost out to Seattle

(59:32):
to say it's okay to hook up with Meg Ryan.
I don't find that trope to be that troubling. I
just think it's bad writing. Yeah, sure, sure, but there
are certainly more regressive tropes around. I think. I think
it's um, it's it. I think it works in movies
that are like super natural, I guess. But then again,
like you end up with something where a wife has

(59:55):
to die to be some sort of mechanism for the
movie moving forward, like woman has to die. True, it's
and and I mean Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan both
need kind of just to continue acting as they're acting
throughout the movie, which is irrationally. I feel like they
add in characters to give them permission to act that way.

(01:00:15):
I think Rosie o'donald's character is seems like that a lot,
where sometimes Meg Ryan will call her and just be like,
is what I'm doing unsafe and irrational? And there's like
a scene for Rosie o'donald's like somehow no and Groads
like sounds good. Hear that audience, it's fine. Click like
it's just so fucking weak. I will say, Rosie o'donald

(01:00:40):
is like she's almost cast like a quasi Ricky Lake
in the role, and she nails Baltimore like that is
a Baltimore attitude in a kind of curt way. And
I give them props for that. But then again, like
that newspaper would just be covering murders. There's more going

(01:01:01):
on in Baltimore. No, No, there's a lonely man in Seattle. Sorry,
this corpse just washed up in front of your house,
because we've found corpses in front of our house. We're
I've worked right there, and they would just like have
to shut off our work because just find bodies, not

(01:01:21):
not necessarily murders, just like you know, a corpse sure
of course died of natural you know, a drug person
falls in Yeah, I mean, as we know from the
that corpse that washes up that was Robert Durst self

(01:01:41):
defending himself. Yeah, you dismember your neighbors in self defense anyway.
And then our other female character that we see semi
frequently is Sam's sister, played by his wife, and we

(01:02:02):
don't really know that much about her except that she
I mean she sort of used as like an exposition
machine basically to be like, hey, you should move to
I don't know Seattle. I mean, she just sort of
functions in relations. Yeah. The first thing that she says
is here's how to make food because women, uh. And

(01:02:24):
then later that long scene where she is recapping the
movie of an Affair to Remember and crying during it.
So at least I don't do that as I'm recapping
movies on the podcast, but I am Victor garbering the
whole time. Is there a movie you would cry as
you recite back Paddington too? Maybe I'm just like an

(01:02:51):
emotional robot, But describing a movie doesn't make me cry.
Does that happen? Do people cry when you describe a movie?
I don't think people describe movies to each other very much.
I think we just do that. But I think that's
one of that's one of the things that this movie,
like women are just shown as being so emotional that

(01:03:14):
like the thought of a romantic story will make you
just cry for a while. Yeah, and that's stupid. Yeah so,
but also I cry constantly at the drop of a
hat about many things. However, the description of that movie
sounds just like, oh, no, I will say. In the

(01:03:36):
middle of mon the three hour Bollywood version essentially of
this movie, there becomes a part where the female lead
starts washing the feet of the grandmother in the temple,
and uh, I got Syria eyed during that. Okay, that's
that's where the two. I mean, crying during a movie

(01:03:56):
I think is normal, But crying while describing yeah that
I don't know. Not to shame anyone who does that,
but I feel like that just doesn't happen very often.
But all the women shown in this movie are constantly
talking about and affair to remember, even like the the
security guard at the end, it's like, oh, yeah, I'm
at the Empire State Building and you're trying to go

(01:04:18):
up to the roof, just like that movie. It's my
wife's favorite, Like, yeah, you could have easily been like
written at that so that he was his favorite of that. Nope,
there are boy movies and there are girl movies. I mean, well, boys,
as we all know, should be listening to Beatles records
backwards and being yelled at by their fops. Do we

(01:04:41):
have any other final thoughts? Uh no, this movie absolutely blows.
Don't watch him? Should we take some questions comments from
the crowd Q and went, oh yeah, come come on down,
so that you're talking into my guest you. Yeah. I
just wanted to mention my favorite scene in the movie

(01:05:04):
where half the cast is yelling at Gabby Hoffman about
where that annoying kid is and her father walks up
and introduces himself, saying, this is your father speaking like
explaining who he is to I just wanted to know
your thoughts on that. I hope that that was them
meeting for the first time. He's like, listen, I was

(01:05:26):
called in after nine years. How old are those kids?
Like eight? Nine? Yeah? Yeah, I think that that was
them meeting Cannon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, I thought it
was interesting. I don't want to know your thoughts on
this that the only attribute that the child Jonah gets

(01:05:49):
to learn about his mom is that she could peel
an apple, like in one whole strip, and that somehow
is the like I don't know that was just weird.
Is thank you for bringing that up, because that is
first of all, so specific that hearing it said out loud,

(01:06:09):
you're like you. And then, just to be sure, you
also see Meg Ryan do it, and then you're like you,
no one would do that you. Why is she so
handy with a knife? Why it's like seeing this stalker
character use a knife handily is like, yikes, that's like

(01:06:31):
in all action movies when somebody's like peeling like an
apple with a bowie knife, right, like that seems like
it's an oh man when she's like listening to him
on the radio, and it was like it's like she's
thinking of that as like his skin. And she's crying

(01:06:53):
during that scene too, because women be crying all the time,
but not so hard they can't see their knife. Like
when I thank you for that happen when I couldn't sleep,
Mom would split wood with a hatchet. She showed then
on your foot any other questions comments, Yeah, So I
just need to get this off my chest because I'm

(01:07:13):
super embarrassed about this. I've seen this movie once years ago.
I remember nothing about it before coming to the show,
but this was like my partner in my movie that
we watched on our first date, and I guess we
found this like romantic enough to like still be dating
like four years later, but we started like, oh sleep
List in Seattle, and I'm like, oh my god, brave

(01:07:37):
for sharing. Let's applaud this bravery because thank you, thank
you're here. Do you have any couple movies like the
movies you have as a in your relationships or I
think I've told this anecdote on the podcast before, but
in one of my worst relationships ever, but it's started

(01:08:00):
with the gentleman if you can call him that, okay.
I whenever to his apartment. I was like nineteen or twenty,
and he was just like, I love Drive. Ever seen it?
And I was like no, and he was like, let's
watch it. I have it in the DVD player already. Yeah,

(01:08:22):
Drive cute up. And then we were watching it. I
personally think that movie is a fucking drag. Was not
enjoying it. And then he was just like, there's a
scorpion jacket in the movie and he kept looking over.
He's just like that jackets cool, right, And I was like,
I guess twenty minutes later he was like, I have

(01:08:42):
that check Okay, but that's also the jacket. They what
is it is? Somebody helped me out here, he said,
jacket also in a gay cruising movie. Yeah, it's a
really famous jacket, like a scorpio rising jacket. I'm forgetting
the name of it, but it's from a reference to something. Yeah,

(01:09:04):
that's a a cruise name jacket. Hell yeah. So he's like,
I have the jacket. He pulls the jacket out of
his closet and just leaves it next to me suggestively,
and then twenty minutes later he's like, I've always wanted
to make out while a girl's wearing that jacket, and
then I did for three years. That's I'm a feminist.

(01:09:35):
I've never been in a relationship, so I have no
movies and I'm in a relationship with myself and our
movie is Paddington. Yeah, oh, I know. I'm sorry. Do
you think I didn't know Paddington two was better? I
I still haven't seen Paddington. Caitlin made me watch it

(01:09:58):
on Christmas. I saw the first one by myself and
I enjoyed it. It's so I think we me and
my partner ours is just the It's really just the
seventh season of Simpsons, because you like, you have to decide,
if you're in a long enough relationship, you have to

(01:10:18):
decide which season of the Simpsons you agree is the best.
I can tell you right now, it will help you.
We've been together for seventeen years, so yeah, we find
this season that we liked Season seven. Okay, beautiful, it's
a beautiful love story. Gang. Does this movie pass the

(01:10:39):
Betel test? Well? I there is a quick exchange towards
the beginning where Annie's mom is holding up a dress,
and so they talk about this dress back and forth
for a couple lines, but the rest of the conversation
is about Walter and about Annie's dad, and the context

(01:11:02):
is like, here, take this dress so that you can
marry a man, right, so you can marry Bill Pullman. Yeah,
I don't feel like it at all. Yeah, every other
exchange either. There. I thought there was an exchange between
Meg and Rosie where they're talking about a Polaroid commercial
and there's something about a refrigerator. I wasn't fully listening.

(01:11:23):
This movie is very boring, but yeah, I know they're
not talking about a man. They're talking about some commercial.
I missed that one. But there are a number of exchanges.
There aren't as many as you would think. I guess,
but because there are a lot of female characters in
this movie, they're just they're not really frequently seen interacting,
with the exception of like Meg Ryan and Rosie o'donald right. Yeah,

(01:11:46):
and almost all of their conversations are about a man
in Seattle that she's never met or Walter. Does it
count as a conversation if she's yelling at the radio
where Dr Mark I don't do. I think if she's
yelling at Dr Marcia, uh no, but also a compelling argument.

(01:12:08):
Does it pass the Backtel test if Tom Hanks's yelling
at a child? Yes, Um, I think Alfred Molina could
have played Jonah. You stepped on my I think he
could have played Jonah. And I think he could have

(01:12:29):
played Jonah well. And I think if Tom Hanks is
yelling at Alfred Molina, who's playing a nine year old,
we've got a psychological thriller on her and I would
love it. So that's yeah. Also, it tragically passes the
Bechtel test. Yeah. I've seen two different readings where it

(01:12:52):
like did or didn't pass the test. Yeah, it's I
I will say I did think that that exchange with
my gain Rosie did pass. Yeah, that I totally forgotten.
So that's says something about that conversation. I've seen this
movie three times in the past week, and I don't
remember that conversation. Still don't work. Yeah, but I guess

(01:13:18):
it passes, so hooray. So yeah it did. So female
talking is fine and back well with that, let's rated
on our nipple scales. Nipples based on his portrayal of women.
I think that it gets like a half nipple. Women
are portrayed as just being these like blubbering, like always crying,

(01:13:41):
like hyper emotional, like no matter what, I need more
men in my life. Yeah. The fact that she is
stalking and that's not addressed in any way, and it's
actually seen as being very cool and romantic. She's given
permission to do it by multiple characters, so like when
you do it, it's okay, right right. The movie subverts

(01:14:04):
the trope of men's talking women, but that's also not good.
So yeah, I guess a half nipple because Gabby Hoffman,
are you giving your nippt to? I'll give my nipple
to I guess to Nora Affron. Yeah, because she did

(01:14:26):
right and direct it. So I mean, we've got a
female phonemaker, but she didn't do a very good job.
I'm gonna give this movie a nipple and a half
because I am Anora affront stand even though she you know,
mistakes are made, but um, she did marry Carl Bernstein

(01:14:47):
and then they got divorced and then she roasted him
NonStop until she died, which was fucking incredible. And I
I just I love Nora a Fron so much. Um,
and it has nothing to do with this movie, although
you know she's clearly the person driving it. But it's

(01:15:07):
weird there. I think the kind of a recurring problem
throughout her movies is that she kind of tries to
have it both ways a lot of time, where all
her female characters are very active, but what they're active
doing you're like, oh no, like there, I mean, we
can't deny me. Bryant's character is active as fuck because

(01:15:30):
she is committing crimes like she is. She's actively talking
someone the whole movie. Uh, She's trying to subvert things
at times that I think missed the mark with like
every time a woman you know, refutes like no, that
terroristatistic is wrong. But then she's also kind of made
to look dumb in the same scene women being blubbering dummies,

(01:15:51):
but they're also hackers, so you know she there. There's
a there's a lot of mixed bagginess to to this
movie that doesn't I don't even think that, like the
female stalker thing is an issue of its time. It's
just like weird. Okay, But I'll go nipple and a
half and I'll give one to Nora and I'll give
the other half to Rosie. All Right, I'm gonna give it.

(01:16:15):
Uh Well, considering I've watched all of the other Love Affair,
there's a fair to remember. There's the other Love Affair
from four, there's the Bollywood movie, and then this. I
think in the uber of all it's the only one

(01:16:36):
more woman doesn't get struck down in traffic. So can
I give it at least one nipple for that? Yeah?
And I'll give another nipple for the for the girl
Jessica um and also for the I'll cross both those
nipples too for the hopeful sequel that follows Jonah and Jessica,

(01:16:59):
as Jonah was on to and create Instagram and Jessica
invents the first Himalayan Salt Lamp compelling. I like that movie.
So yeah, this movie, he's boring and I don't like it. Um.

(01:17:21):
Thanks for kesn uh Andy, Where can people follow you online?
Why would you like to plug? Yeah? I do the
comedy nest downstairs here in the grotto every Tuesday. It's
an awesome hate free female focus showing room. Great. All right,
thank you so much for joining us. Yes, give it
up for Andy. Oh my, uh, my co workers are

(01:17:48):
probably listening to this right now. I'm probably on break.
Hell yeah, thank you for coming. Give up for yourselves.
Thank you. There you have it. That was the last
of the live shows that we recorded on our West
Coast tour. Thanks again to our guest Andy I Wantio

(01:18:13):
for joining us. Thank you to the Jewel Box Theater
at the Rendezvous in Seattle and all of their staff
for helping us to put on the various shows that
we did there in Seattle. Thanks again to Sam Junio
for recording the show and being our road dog for
the West Coast tour. Uh And speaking of tours, we've

(01:18:36):
got another one coming up in the Northeast. We will
be in New York, Philadelphia, Washington, d C. And Boston
at the end of April and beginning of May. So
check out our website bechtel cast dot com and click
on live appearances for all of the dates, venues and
other details for those shows. And if you live in

(01:18:57):
or near any of those places, we hope to see
you there and then all the usual stuff. Follow us
on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at bechtel Cast right and
review us on iTunes. That helps us out a lot.
Subscribe to our matren at patreon dot com slash spectel Cast,
where we do to bonus episodes every single month and

(01:19:19):
it's only five dollars. What a damn good special. Uh.
And then we've also got merch at t public dot
com slash the backtel Cast, including a few new designs
by our very own Jamie Loftus like Woman in Stem
and Rise of the Matriarchy. And that about does it

(01:19:39):
for this episode, So thanks as always for listening. And
this is Sleepless in Seattle signing off just kidding, it's
Caitlin by