October 10, 2019 • 56 mins
This week, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guests Dani Fernandez and Ify Nwadiwe of Nerdificent podcast are all together spooky talking about The Addams Family (1991).
(This episode contains spoilers)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
best start changing it with the Beckdel Cast. Hello and
welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Toronte
is Jamie Loftez and oh oh no please, and we
(00:23):
talk about the representation of women in film on our
podcast that you're listening to right now. What do we do?
We use the Bechtel test first of all, met made
by Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test, that
requires a piece of media have two female identified characters
(00:44):
with names talking to each other about something other than
a man for more than two lines of dialogue. Wow,
should we test it out? Let's do it? Okay, Hey Jamie,
Hey Caitlin. Did you know that I regularly misused the
word whenever? No? Because I do, and our fans tell
me about it all the time. What way are you
(01:05):
using UM? I think I use it when I should
just be saying the word when. But but I say whenever. Honestly,
I think you should get dragged for a free product
that anyone can listen to um and absolutely don't even
need to weigh in. But you mean, I think it's
very useful. Do you feel bad about yourself? No? Good? Yeah,
there you go, perfect? Thank you. Then the internet is
(01:28):
not doing its job if you don't feel like absolutely garbage.
That's so everyone, should you know, try harder to set
it up? I mean, really, roaster, just kidding, please, don't
it passes cool? So to get down to damn business,
we're talking about representation of women in scary families. Scary
families specifically the Adams family. So today we're covering the
(01:52):
film from ninety one. We have guests multiple plural. They've
both been on the podcast before separately, but they're here
together because they're the co host of Nerdificent. It's Danny
Fernandez and Iffy way Way Hi four told Crossover it
(02:13):
finally finally welcome during spooktober yah, Um, what are you
guys history with this franchise? Danny start, Oh my gosh,
I'm obsessed. I tweet about more Titia and Gomez more
than any normal person should. I also have a bunch
(02:34):
of artwork of them in my apartment, so I have
like above my bed I had forever. I moved it,
but it was a picture of Gomez like swooping, swooping.
What does a dance move? Where they're there? Thank you, Iffy.
He's swooping, he's dipping more Titia and has like his
(02:54):
face like in her neck, and I'm like, I don't
want any guy in this bed that isn't doing that.
So that's like representation, uh huh. And then like right
when you walk into my place, I have a picture
of him like kissing her hand. So yeah, I'm obsessed
with them, and that is their goals. They are goals, right, yeah, yeah,
(03:17):
terrific if he what about you? Yeah, yeah, you know,
watched Adams Family like everyone else, you know, I thought
it was a good franchise, fun show. The cartoon was fun.
I think now my relationship with you know, the Adams
Family is every woman I have a crush on looks
like more tissue or Wednesday, any variation of the two.
(03:40):
Just getting into that beautiful Jamie. What about your time
of year? I'm like a long time fan. We had
we had a book of the comics at my house.
I don't know who it belonged to, but like the
comics in the illustration style of Charles Adams. I really
really really loved when I was younger. I weirdly, I
think I've only seen this movie one time before or
(04:00):
but I remember they used to show like repeats of
the TV show on TV Land, and I was deep
into that deeply unfunny television show. Loved it, loved loved,
loved lie lovel laugh track. I live for it. But
this is my first time seeing the movie in I mean,
at least a decade, and it was so lovely to revisit.
(04:22):
What's your history with the Adam family. Well, this might
be a wild thing for me to admit, but I
had never seen this movie nor its sequel, Adam's Family Values. Um.
But like, I'm familiar with all of the characters, Like
I knew about more Tisha, I knew about Wednesday, I
knew about Cousin. It like all the whole the hand
they've infiltrated our cultural zeit, guys, it is like a
(04:45):
cultural osmosis kind of thing. Yeah, but I was watching
and I was like, and I thought I had seen it,
but I was like, wait a minute, I've never seen
this movie, but it was a delight Uh, and we're
focusing on the first one from nine one, but you know,
if if anyone has any thoughts on the sequel, uh
by all means share them. It's so funny because I
(05:06):
always forget Go Maz is rawl Julia because I always
remember all Julia as Imbison from the street Fighter movie,
the fact that that was his last film that he's
done in his life and it's dedicated to him at
the end, and so you know, I listened to the
credits and that's all I think of when I was like, no,
(05:26):
he that was a way better performance as him as
Go Maz, But for some reason, I just see him.
That was Tuesday for me. I was gonna say the
original Gomez was also John Aston, who Sean Aston's dad, Right, Yeah,
I love us. I love an acting dynasty. Scary, it
(05:47):
makes me mad, but I like it allow it. I
wanted to point out two things just about values out
of family values, because we're just focusing on the first one.
I do love that both of the movies had a
female villain. I love that. And then Pubert, their son,
who's like a tiny Gomez, is actually a girl. They're
(06:09):
too twin girls with just like they put little baby
mustaches on. Yeah, so technically they passed the back toel
test just with the true with their cooing to each other. Yeah,
I didn't know that. That's uh, you know what, babies
are so androgynous. It turns out, um, should I just
(06:31):
dive into the weekend of geting up a picture of
Pubert and Pubert? Wow? Wow, I kind to see the
second one. I also read that the second one is
supposed to be like the better movie, but it just well,
that's not the one. It was funny because going into it,
I was thinking I was watching the second, but I
was like, oh no, the first one is different because
I was like, oh wait, this is a fake fester
(06:53):
fake fester alert. Yeah, the second one was slapped super
hard because yeah, the camps scene and Wednesday appropriating Native
American culture was super hot back in the day. But
then also like making a statement we shouldn't like colonizers
shouldn't have done that to indigenous people, just like a
(07:14):
woke white woman with dreads. You know. I was like,
you know, I don't know what to do with you.
Also like who are their parents? That one of them
is Latino and the other is white. You know, I'm like,
what is this family, like you know, Gomez, and then
there's Fester and I'm like, clearly adopted someone at what
is happening here? Okay Latin x icon. Yes, I'm going
(07:38):
to dive into the recap and then we'll go from there. Okay.
So we meet this cookie spooky family, the Adams family.
The patriarch, if you will, is Gomez Adams. His wife.
His wife is more Titia. Um, that's Angelica Houston. Of course.
Her mother is grand played by Judith Malina, not to
(08:03):
be confused with Alfred. Although he's a chameleon, could have
played the role. He could have played literally any character
in this film. He would have actually been a great
fake Fester yeah. Um. And then there are two children,
Wednesday Adams Christina Riccie of course and Pugsley. There's a
(08:24):
detached hand called thing that lives with them. He's their pet,
I'm not sure or who knows, kind of like a butler.
But then they also have a butler urch sometimes you
need two butlers, uh. And they all live together in
this huge, creepy house and they love anything that's dark
(08:45):
and morbid. So years ago Gomez lost his brother Fester,
and every year the family has done a seans to
try to bring him back. Meanwhile, the Adams family lawyer
Tully Alfred played by and Hidea Uh and his wife,
his wife Margaret, they're financially desperate and they're trying to
(09:06):
figure out a way to get some of the Adams
family fortune because they are inexplicably very wealthy. Well, I
like how the story is like, we don't need to
explain why because none of them have jobs, and they
go out of the way to remind you that none
of them have jobs. You're just like, they're just an
independently wealthy, scary family. Yes, So one of Tully's clients,
(09:28):
Mrs Craven, pays them a visit to collect a debt
that Tully owes her and Mrs Craven's son, Gordon Christopher Lloyd,
looks a lot like a photo of the long lost
Fester Adams, so they decide to have Gordon pretend to
be Fester as a way to try to get the
Adam's money. Quick question, is Mrs Craven, that's murder? She wrote, right, No,
(09:53):
isn't murder, she wrote, Angela Landsberg. Then no, that's not her?
Was that your runner? Way? We're not about way? Of
asking if it was Angela Murder, she wrote, I just
forget her name, but now I know it's Angela Wynne.
There it is Mrs Potts, And we'll always say Festers missing.
(10:14):
He's like literally missing right there. He's not He's in
the Bermuda triangle it. They're saying, right, yeah, yeah, we're
talking Fester. I do have to take one quick second
for us to put some respect on the game where
you held the two metal things that would vibrate super
hard and then smoke would come out of his mouth dusters.
(10:34):
It scared me for so long as a child because
I thought it was really electrocuting you. It was like,
I don't think I can handle all those volts. Um.
So the family does their annual sciance and Gordon as Fester,
shows up pretending to have been summoned by the Sands,
along with Mrs Craven, who was pretending to be a
(10:56):
German psychologist who is like helping esther. By the way,
that's a hat on the hat. She didn't have to
do that. She just wanted to, like, I want to
do some sneaking around too. She's like, I took an
improv class. It's like I gotta get some use out
of this improv increases the likelihood of them getting caught
(11:18):
by a lot, right. I might even go as far
to say the reason they were suspicious was because she
was there. She's like, why has practiced this German accent?
I have to use itsically trained. So then fake Fester
(11:40):
settles into the Adams house, but tells the family that
he can only stay for a week because he has
to get back to the Bermuda Triangle Wednesday. Adams is
suspicious of him immediately, but everyone else, especially Gomez, is
like delighted to see him, and he asks Fester for
forgiveness for betraying him in their past, because there's this
(12:00):
whole thing where Gomez wooed these twins Flora and Fauna
because he was just super jealous of Fester's charm. But
Fester can't seem to remember anything from their childhood, like
the secret password or the combination to the vault, or
how to remove this like finger trap thing. So now
Gomez suspects this man to be an impostor and gets
(12:23):
very upset, and he's crashing his model trains together. I
love the model trained. That's like a carryover from the
TV series too. He's just a yeah, trains guy and
also the guy that's in it that looks out and
that's the director. Um. So Fake Fester knows that they
(12:45):
are onto him, but he still hasn't found the family fortune.
And then his mom, Mrs Craven, who's pretending to be
the doctor, shows up and convinces Gomez that he's experiencing displacement,
which is why he's angry and thinks Festers a fraud
and everyone believes her. So Gomez once again is like,
is convinced that Fester, this guy is his real brother.
(13:08):
How are they so rich for the fact that they
can get duped so easily? Right, duped and undooped just
as all, Yeah he's got Gomez is just an impressionable guy.
He wants to believe the best. It's true, Yeah, it's true. Meanwhile,
Fake Fester is bonding with the children Wednesday and Pugsley,
and he helps them with their performance at the school
(13:29):
play and everyone is excited about Fester again and he's
starting to feel like part of the Adams family, but
his mom is like, I'm your family. You've got to
get out of there, find the money and run. So
the family throws Fester this big ball and the whole
Adams clan is invited. Iconic cousin it is there. Um
(13:54):
As Fester is getting ready and talking to his mom
about getting into the vault, Wednesday x in on them
and she's like, I knew it, You're a fake. And
then he chases after her but he can't find her.
No one can find her. And then he goes to
the ball and pretends everything is normal. There's a whole
dance sequence, terrific, great, That whole party is just so good,
(14:18):
and I feel like takes place in this world, Like
there were a lot of good scary dances in the
nineties and movies like The Dance and Casper was another
big scary dance that in like an old creaky mansion.
Loved it, loved it. And then after a while, the
family realizes that Wednesday has disappeared, so they go out
(14:38):
to find her, and when they come back to the house,
their lawyer, Tully, has seized the house and issued a
restraining order, saying that it now belongs to their oldest
living relative, Fester, and that he's still bitter about Gomez's
betrayal regarding Flora and Fauna so now the family has
banished from their home and they're despondent. They try to
(14:59):
integrate into society that doesn't work out very well for them. Meanwhile, Fester,
now that he has the house to himself, he and
his mom and Tully are all trying to break into
the vault to get the money, but they can't figure
out how, and Fester seems to like miss the atoms
Is and We're like, what's going on there? And then
more Titia sneaks out and goes back to the house,
(15:21):
but Mrs Craven and Tully tie her up to get
the information about how to access the vault, and then
Gomez shows up to rescue her, and Fester doesn't want
to hurt the atoms Is because maybe he is one
of them actually, and then his mom is like, I
should have left you where I found you, and then
we're all like what, and then Fester's like, you're a
terrible mother, and then he unleashes a hurricane on them
(15:44):
that lives in a book, which also electrocutes Fester with
a bolt of lightning, which restores his memory, and it
turns out that Mrs Craven had kidnapped Fester years ago.
But he got amnesia and he didn't remember that he
was in fact member of the Atom. I totally forgot
this part. I don't know. I was watching it on
(16:04):
on my plane on the way here, and it's totally
skipped over that. Yeah, so he is by blood or
maybe adopted, but he was raised as an atom's right.
And that ending confirms this total fact, which is faster
can grow hair. He just shaves it all. He just
saves it all. I didn't even think about that. Yeah,
(16:26):
it's always oh man. I honestly like I forgot the
entire what happens in this movie, and I was floored
by the twist. I was like, wait, that's it's what
we thought at the beginning. I loved it. I know
it was beautiful. I loved it. And that means that
(16:46):
Gomez is purity of heart is actually the right thing
to do, because he was was right all along. He's
actually very intuitive. He knows his brother. That's true. Let's
take a quick break and we'll come right back, and
we're back. That was kind of a a spooky and
(17:07):
they're back back back. So where do we want to
start with this film? We've got an embarrassment of riches here.
There's so there's so many fun female characters. Start with
more Tisha, Let's do it. She's great, I mean an
icon she is. This is weird that I like she
(17:30):
I love I love that she's both very much in charge,
but it's also very soft spoken. I feel like you
don't get characters. Yea. I will say that because I
remember watching this and be like, oh, I don't remember
her voice being that high pitch, but I think you
watch it forget and then you see pictures and I
was like, oh, she must have a deep voice because
she commands so much power, right, But yeah, no, Angelica Houston,
(17:53):
she actually didn't base it off of the original more Tisha.
She based it off of Gray Gardens. Oh yeah, that's
how she came up with how she was acting in
the wild. And they kept some of the things, like
they kept the her clipping the roses, like that's from
the show. But I think she wanted a different take
(18:14):
that was more true to her, like what she thought
she could bring to it. I mean, it's such a
like the jokes that she delivers, which are a lot
of them. With her performance, it ends up being this
like dead pan delivery and it's so funny and it's
so great. Yeah, I love it. As far as her
character so well, first of all, she's a horny icon
(18:35):
verry sex positive, I mean her income as like their
relationship is great. Yeh. That's why I was watching this,
was like, I'm the right man for the job. You
got the Horny Lord of Comedy. If you wa wait
here checking in clocking in? Is that a nickname you
gave your Yeah, just feel free to tag was it
(18:59):
horn Lord of Comedy? Alright, that's going to be the
movie I'd come out with with three other horny comics,
The Horny Lords of Comedy. That's your like national tour, Like,
oh man, did you check out The Horny Lords of Comedy?
I mean, if you said, was good? But b l
Huglia kind of weak. Not I had tweeted about Gomez,
(19:24):
I was like, I want someone like him, and by
that I mean a Latino millionaire that can talk to
the dead, because I was like, that's just so on
brand for me. The thing that I love about I know,
we're talking about mor Tisia. The thing I like about
Gomez though, is that he's okay with male affection, Like
I love that. I love like he kisses Fester, which
(19:45):
like guard but he's very like he cries openly, he
worships his wife. Like I just love all of that. Yeah,
but I love that they're super sex positive. Yeah, he's
like very emotionally open and vulnerable and by contrast, like
maybe more Titia to a lesser extent, just because she's like, hey, kids,
(20:05):
you should keep trying to kill each other more. I
like that. I feel like that like that subverts like
a lot of mom tropes that shut and all the
time of just like the mom has to be I mean,
not that Morticia isn't nurturing, She's very supportive of her kids,
but like the you know, emotionally more forward when where
it seems like Gomez is kind of the has that
role in the family of expressing it, I mean, and
(20:28):
even like when it seems like Fester isn't his brother
after all, or the Fester that they're given isn't, you know,
he's like devastated and like openly devastated and doesn't hide it.
And I also like that the movie doesn't try to
make it seem silly that like a man is expressing
his emotions too, because I feel like sometimes when male
characters and movies do it's framed by the movie is
(20:50):
like how embarrassing for that, how pathetic something for Grama
is it's just like a part of the story and
its like it makes sense, and it's so I love
that the main women in the family are very a
level headed, so like Morticia and Wednesday, you know, like
Morticia always keeps her cool even when Gomez is freaking out,
and the same with Wednesday, Like she's just so same thing.
(21:10):
She's dead pan. She like definitely wears the pants between
her and Pugsley and is always like he that's her
little guinea pig, right, And by extension, it doesn't seem
to bother the men either. They're not like hey stop
that elect care. I mean, yeah, I know we're all
over the place. Well, we'll get to every character. We'll
(21:31):
give them all their due time. But like, just to
pick you back off what you were saying, Danny about
the two siblings, Wednesday and Pugsley, Like, first of all,
Wednesday is the first and kind of only one who's
like very immediately suspicious of a very suspicious scenario. Um,
And so I don't know if that's like kind of
(21:53):
playing to like the women's intuition trope, or if it's
just that she's really smart and observant, that's what I
choose to believe it's happening. Um. So, yeah, she's super
smart and curious and observant. Um. I would say that
she's the more developed, more active, and better remembered character
than Pugsley for sure. I like that she's given a
like specific academic interest. She loves the Bermuda Triangle and
(22:17):
she studies it, and she like studies her like she
has an interest in her family. When she brings up
Calpurnia right right on, you're like, oh, she's you know,
she's digging it. Like yeah. She also talks way more
than Pugsley. She has far more lines of dialogue, which
I think is unusual for Also, I don't know how
(22:37):
old Christina Ricci was, but like, damn, I was watching
like she was so good. She was on par with
the adults in the film. She was eleven when this
movie came out. Insane. Yeah, she's and then and then
she you know, got like pigeonholed in the in the
scary nineties movies for a while because she was in Casper.
And she's also perfect in Casper. Do we want to
(22:59):
talk about let's say, or go back to more Tisa. Gosh,
I'm just excited. I know, it's just so exciting. Um,
so yeah, let's let's return back to Morticia for a moment.
My big thing with her as it relates to the
narrative is so towards the end, they've been banished from
their house, and Morticia is the one who's like, this
(23:21):
isn't right. I'm going to go do something about this.
So she's the one who like sneaks out, takes the
initiative and goes back to their home in an effort
to correct the injustice that's been brought upon them. Um.
But she gets immediately captured and damseled and like tied
to a slab, and so she doesn't get to accomplish anything,
which is very frustrating. Which does and that, Yeah, that's
(23:43):
like a shitty tropy thing. The only good thing about
that is that she they that that they get kinky
about this lab, true, which is fun because Gomas has
to come in and rescue her and then they get
horny in regards to this lab. That's true. Yeah, they
could have capitalized on that opportunity to have her go
try to do something and then accomplish something and maybe
(24:04):
like whether or not she's completely successful whatever, but the
fact that she doesn't even get to do anything because
she's immediately captured and then has to be rescued. That
was she also got a job and Gomez didn't right, Yes,
Gomes was like sitting around watching TV, super depressed and
then she went out and I d a teacher teacher right,
(24:25):
which is a great scene too. Yeah, I don't mean,
I don't know. I wasn't sure what to make of
her getting a job in Gomez not I feel like
it sort of made sense for the story, Like it
was like it seemed like he was suffering depression and
she was like, well, I need to go make money
because our financial situation is intentionally obscured to serve the plot.
(24:47):
And I don't know, Yeah, I I that didn't super
super bother me. And I also think it's it's like,
especially in the early nineties, like the mom being the
breadwinner is actually kind of like a little bit supper.
And then we also get to see like the interview
pro where the interview was like, oh, so you've been
a homemaker and you're trying to re enter the workforce.
That's actually pretty normal, right now, um, where did you
(25:09):
go to college? And then she's like, tutors, what was
your major? Spells? And hexa and she's like, we'll say
liberal Arts. And I was like, the comedy in this
movie so funny, But yeah, I actually liked that. Like
we see her be the one to go out and
get a job and try to support the family. She's
very often the one to find the solution for a problem,
(25:32):
and it's just like, I don't know, her and gum
As have such like a functional good relationship where when
there's a problem, they split up the responsibilities and one
of themselves the problem. It's pretty easy, like when Wednesday
goes missing in that weird sequence where she ends up
sleeping on a grave and then they're like, well, anyways,
next scene, go Ma solves that one. What was that?
(25:52):
What does anyone know? Why? Why that happened? She runs
away to escape Fester because she got caught finding out
that Fester is an impostor. Again she had suspected it,
but then this is her confirming it because she walks
in on the right the shaving of the head, and
(26:14):
then so she runs away to avoid like being hunted
down by them. Yeah, that's how that happened. But yeah,
I mean, similar to Wednesday being suspicious about Fester, you
see Mortisia being eventually suspicious as well. Like she you
can just sense that she's not quite as on board
as Gomez is, because Gomez has been blinded by the
(26:38):
excitement of Fester returning and he like cannot look at
anything rationally. But more Titia is like, I'm happy that
he's home. But also this is a bit suss. She
takes him out to the graveyard and like warns him
of like just so you know, if you funk with us,
you'll be in one of these graves. And then like
you're just like, oh okay. So she's a little visions,
(27:02):
you know. She like gives him a stern She's like
Christopher Lloyd don't. Also, this is the most I love
this family. They're the most confusing because it's clear that
they want to die, but yet they you know what
I mean, it's like, don't work with us. But then
it was like cyanide, like we'd run out, you know,
and it's just like you know, they clearly I kept
running into that with the Adams family values, because they
(27:23):
were upset they kept trying to kill the kid, even
though they wanted their kids to try and kill each other.
I'm like, this is so and they like had a
had a background process for the nanny, and I'm just like,
why don't you want They're just they're very confusing. Maybe
it's a family rules where it's like it's like we
can kill each other, but strangers killed. I buy that.
(27:46):
I like that they there's so many rules of the
Adams family universe that just are blatantly unexplained to the
print where it didn't even occur to me to question
them because it's just like Cannon like went, we don't
know why no one else is scary they and it's
all so I'm like, how old are they? We don't know.
It seems like they might be immortal, but but then
also could be hard to say. Yeah, the wife, I
(28:08):
forgot her name, Toty's wife, right, I love Margaret that
he doesn't respect her, so she left his ass. You know. Um, Also,
short guys do win? Look I date short guys. She
went for a guy shorter than her. Yeah, cousin it
because he treated her well. See, that's that's what we
(28:31):
want that's true because it's very respectful. You don't know
what happens when he flips that hair up. He can shredded.
Sh He's all dick. It's all dick. He covered in hair.
I choose to believe that even though he pronouns are
(28:53):
used for cousin it and I also think are used
he pronouns are used for a thing. Yeah. I think
that they are both genderless non binary icons. But you
know that's just my head canon. I had one more
thing on Mortisia before we moved on from her was
I liked that scene where she goes to Wednesday school.
This is when we find out where that Wednesday has
(29:13):
made like a school project about her great aunt Calpurnia,
who was burned as a witch in seventeen oh six.
They said she danced naked in the town square and
enslaved the minister. But I like that they're in this
phase where Mortisia is being set up by the teacher
to like be worried about her daughter and like call
her weird and say like, oh, something is wrong, and
(29:35):
Mortisia just, I don't know it's weird because it is.
She does know what's happening, but she just totally steamrolls
it very calmly, and she's just like, oh, yeah, isn't
that the coolest fucking thing you've ever seen in your life?
My daughter is so great. And then the teacher is
just like like the teachers just pokemon stunned and they
move on. Like there's like she has a lot of
(29:56):
moments like that where you know, she knows what's going on,
but she's like not even going to get into an
argument about it, and she's so like cool and collected
that no one ever challenges her. It's the it's aspirational.
More Titia is so great the movie, though both this
and its sequel are the stories are focused, I would say,
(30:18):
largely on the relationship between Fester and Gomez. So even
though we have these great female characters, the narrative is
focused on like the patriarch of the family and then
his brother. You know that I found especially maybe sure
that's the first movie. Sequel could have been about something
more focused on more Tissue, which actually they hire a
(30:41):
nanny because more Tissa is like, I would like to
pursue some interests outside of the home, and we're like, okay, cool,
that's cool. But then she never does anything. So that
was um the big frustration for me for Adam's family values.
But um, yeah, both movies are about like they're focusing
(31:02):
on these male relationships, so the female characters end up
being more supporting roles rather than you know, the heroes
of the story. The you know, and it's an ensemble cast,
but um, the focus is still on men and male relationships,
which is kind of funny because I think, like the
iconic characters from this franchise are to female characters. Wednesday. Yeah,
(31:27):
so like, in spite of the way that these movies
are are written, it's still like cream rises to the top.
Although I love going As so much too, Pugs, I
can kind of it's like the least cause played character.
I do think that it's weird that it's the same
like story. I almost feel like the Studio because it's
(31:48):
about Fester essentially listening to a woman who takes him
away from his family. That's like both stories, Like I
just found because I watched them back to back the
other night and I was like, this is is like
the same thing. He's listening to a woman that wants
to take him away from his family. Like it's just
fascinating to me like being on the other side of
it now that the studio wouldn't be like, hey, so
(32:09):
maybe let's change this more. But they're like worked the
first time. Let's see what happen, And it is cool that,
like you have parody between men and women as far
as like there are female villains in both movies. And
then like also in the first movie, like Tully ends
up being irredeemable, but then also like Fester, who is
(32:32):
in on the scheme in the first place because he
doesn't know that he's actually in Adams, he ends up
being redeemable. So it's like there's nice, a nice balance there,
Like we all, I always like to see a female villain,
assuming they're handled responsibly, which is when I think mostly
it is I think she's a good female, like because
you're always worrying like, oh, is this going to be
a female villain that is like relegated to only using
(32:54):
her sexuality as a weapon or like what but but
this is a I mean, abigailis a goofy villain, major goofibes.
And then there's also that bizarre like that sexual tension
between her and Fester that you're like where she well,
there are all those scenes where she's getting real close
(33:14):
and she's like, you know, to me, she's shaving, she's
shaving him, she's shaving him down to you know, his skin,
and being like, tell mommy you love her. Yeah. There's
also I mean, this is maybe a stretch, but I
feel like there's the light suggestion that the villain, who
is a woman in the first movie, is so baby
(33:35):
crazy that she will kidnap an adult man and raise
him as her son. Yeah. I was like, um, okay,
but it is very funny to me that Fester would
have been an adult when she found him, and then
she's like, but you're I'm your mommy, mommy. Going back
(33:57):
a little bit to Gomez and how he is this
really sensitive father, I think by that same token, one
of the things that endears us to Fester is that
he takes an interest in the children in like this
very nurturing role. Um, because nurturing relationships like that with
(34:19):
children are usually relegated to female characters. So the fact
that it's we get to see this random uncle who's
been gone for twenty five years, who would have never
met those children, was like, yeah, but you're nice and
I like you, and let's I'm gonna teach you about scabs, which,
by the way, Jamie, I know at the topic of interest,
(34:40):
does it you know, it's it's getting to be Halloween,
and we have to reevaluate once again. Does beetlejuice come
wet scaps or dry scaps? Thoughts? And we don't. We're
so sorry to bring talk about It's definitely scabs. So
you're so sure that juice comes scabs? Yes, in the
real and in how are you? How do you talking
(35:01):
about this mathematically based on the assumption, which we've deduced
to be mostly true, that beetle juice comes scabs. Do
you think that bee juice would come wet scabs? I
think like like a laser jet printer printing a lot
of full color photos, or dry scabs, which would be
like a deck of Tarot cards being shuffled. Do you
(35:22):
remember the commercial in the nineties for creepy Crawlers. That's
what I think. He comes like those jelly little crawley
spiders that you could like bake in the boy's equivalent
of an easy bake oven or whatever they have. So
you're saying wet but also hot. No, they were like
they were like they were like gummy. It was a
(35:43):
gummy so you put it in the sas or out
of the equation. Yeah, I'm sorry, he comes creepy crawlers.
See how there's boys that's unfortunately not canon, Danny, that
there's boys that when clearly I owned one of the
I do want to, you know, quote my my algebra
teacher and say show your work, because I need to
(36:04):
know how we got to the scabs. I've got. I mean,
I've got. First of all, look at the man. He's
covered in scabs, covered in scabs. We have no reason
to believe that he wouldn't come scabs. More guys is
not can Thanks for playing everyone, but try again next
(36:25):
year definitely comes scabs, all right? When when I when
we have the writer people juice on Nertificent and we
ask all our loyal listeners who send in their pictures
every year with their team dry Scabs and Team Wet
Scabs T shirts. It's a whole team pus rise up,
but no shirts for you. Don't be afraid. Don't be
(36:47):
afraid to come us the scot there's a book about
scabs in this movie, flipping through it's it's one of
the ways that Fester bonds with his niece and nephew.
We have smelled your scabs before, so good. We got
(37:07):
to take a break, but we'll come right back. And
we're back. We're back, and we're gonna we cannot refuse.
I'm going to cut this out. It is important Halloween discourse.
(37:30):
One of the last things I wanted to bring up
is So and Danny. You touched on this a bit
as well. But Um, Gomez, the character and the actor
who plays him, Raoul Julia are Latin X. There's an
article in teen Vogue by writer Ella Serone entitled The
Adams Family's Gomez Adams was my first glimpse of Latin
(37:53):
X representation, and I just have a few quotes that
I'd like to read from that. Um there was Gomez Adams.
He was the first time I ever saw my own
dad reflected back to me on a big screen. The
prevalence of solid Latin X fathers in pop culture is
meager now. For every Jane the Virgin storyline, there are
also many more stereotypes floating around, feeding into the narrative
(38:16):
of machismo and patriarchy that so many of us are
trying now to course correct. When the first Adams Family
movie first debuted appropriate representation was rarer. Still, No, Gomez
was not a realistic father per se. The family pet
was a disembodied hand, but he was a devoted one.
The fact, and here's another quote from the same article,
(38:38):
the fact that Gomez was played by a Latino X
actor was not lost on me either. Julia accentuated his
Puerto Rican accent and speech patterns in order to heighten
the character's theatricality. With all due respect to John Aston
and Tim Curry, who have also played the character, all
other interpretations of Gomez were aberrations. In my mind, I
(38:59):
understood Gomez to be Latin X like my dad because
that is what I knew, and he still is now
that Oscar Isaac is voicing him in the new animated movie,
which is why we are covering this uh Adam's family
right now because of the new animated movie that's coming out.
So I thought that was worth mentioning um because of
(39:21):
the little and not good representation generally of Latin X
characters in media. I love the fact that they did
keep Oscar Isaac and I think I can't predict the future,
but I think that he will stay um not Oscar.
I wish that they had a live action of him.
I kind of wish the cartoon, but I think Gomez
(39:43):
will stay latin x like for the next decade at least.
I mean, his name is Gomex. But in my mind,
I'm like, so is Wednesday Latina? Um? Possibly, I don't know.
I'm gonna We're gonna claim her. Chloe Grace Moretz is
out because she's who voices Wednesday. Rewrite it instead of Wednesday.
(40:05):
She's miracles now nice. The whole time trying to do
that joke, I was remembering the song I learned in
Spanish class, Days of the Weeks Luon Martes miracles virness.
Uh what Luna lu luncleless. Yeah, you know that's the song.
(40:30):
Svine was Lunes Martes miracles vierness, the fourth one sin
the days of the week. Wow, I can't believe I
forget Friday. No, you said Fridays, So what's Thursday? Oh yeah,
Oh that's why I'd like, let it miracles vierness the
(40:55):
days of the week. Beautiful. Someone's probably like cramming for
their Spanish final and then they're listening to this, They're like,
oh my gosh, I'll save me. You're welcome every find
Senora Martinez. Can I listen to podcasts while I take
this test? It takes we have so many seventh graders
taking Intro to Spanish as our listener. Yeah. Um. One
(41:21):
of the last things I wanted to say was, um,
I think it's very cool to see female characters like
more Titia and Wednesday being interested in like dark, morbid things,
because most movies are showing women and girls being interested
in things that are like very traditionally feminine, which is great.
(41:43):
But the fact that we only see that and the
fact that that's like a societal expectation, you know, it's whatever,
But you know, I just like to see more Titia
and Wednesday they love death. Yeah. Well, that was something
I wanted to bring up as well, just because I
was trying to research how the um, how the adaptations
have differed, and it seems like this is the adaptation
(42:07):
that really like did the most right. And actually, as
we see on this podcast all the time, where like
adaptations are done lazily or poorly or and do a
disservice to their female characters, this actually does a pretty
cool job of reversing some of the more trophy female
roles that are present in the TV series UM, where
(42:28):
Morticia doesn't really have the same presence and parody in
the household as she does in this movie. And also
um because Wednesday is like very morbid and I think,
very similar to the Christina Ricci character in the original cartoons,
but in the TV series she was kind of like
femed up a little bit. Uh. They make her more girly,
(42:48):
they make her more cute, see, and they kind of
strip her of those really dark um like interest that
Christina Ricci's character has. So I thought that that was
like a cool positive thing that the movie did was like,
first of all, stay loyal to its source material in
a way that really served it. And also just like
let the female characters be like dark and funked up
(43:10):
and cool and not have it be this you know,
point of contention for the story. This was also a
time in the nineties when like riot girl culture was
coming up, um and so I think like having women
like rebelling being into more darker things and like grunge
and um, I imagine that that influenced part of this
(43:33):
that grandberries culture is on the right ninety one and
this movie is also co written by a female writer
who Caroline Thompson is co written with Larry Wilson. But
Caroline Thompson has a pretty like crazy screenwriting record for
like this era of movies. Specifically, she was in the
(43:54):
spooky movie genre. She co wrote Edwards Scissor Hands. She
care wrote the Adams Family should cover at the Secret
Garden Nightmare before Christmas, Uh Corpse Bride like and and
the twist welcome to Marwin we don't know or We'll
welcome to. Isn't it always so crazy that whenever there's
(44:16):
a good representation of women in film, there's usually a
woman who co wrote it. It's almost like, m I
wonder what. That's My favorite thing in Adam's Family values
is when she's like, Debbie, you enslaved Fester, you took
him away from us, and that I can forgive but
pastels and she kicks her out, Like that's my favorite part.
(44:40):
She's so okay. Another thing, she's an icon for her
meme of her sipping tea. I've seen so many people
use that on Twitter than more Tisias sipping the tea.
Love it. That's the way to really establish a legacy
is to have a good gift of you sipping tea
because that means he will never truly die ever. Does
(45:01):
anyone have any other final thoughts about the film? I
want to see, Um, I forgot is it Melissa? Somebody
did a grown up Wednesday Adams, But I really hope
that that was Melissa Hunter? Right, Yeah, I want that.
I want to see her what her life is like now,
(45:22):
like a spin off. Yeah, we should, let's write it
about together iconic hell yeah. Uh does this movie pass
the Bechtel test? Yeah? It does. There are a few
different combinations more. Tisha talks to Granny, her mother. She
talks to Margaret about the finger trap and the charity auction.
(45:48):
She talks to Wednesday. She talks to Wednesday's teachers we
mentioned who has given a name Susan Perkins. They talk
about Wednesday. Um. A lot of the conversations between female
characters are about like Fester if he is an impostor,
(46:08):
or they're talking about their dad or you know, something
like that. But there are a few exchanges that definitely passed. Yeah. Yeah,
It's like it's one of those things where you're like, yeah,
it's not as much as it should and I wish
I genuinely wish that you had gotten a little more
between more Tissia and Wednesday, specifically because you see moments
where they're supporting each other and having each other's back,
but you don't actually get to see that just the
(46:29):
two of them together, um really much at all. So
I wish that there was more of that. But that's that.
I mean, for for ninety one, this movie, uh like
really holds up. I thought, yeah, they're there. I mean,
the nineties were so ripe with so much problematic stuff,
and especially comedies which were so about punching down to
(46:51):
marginalize people. So the fact that this movie doesn't subscribe
to that, the most regressive thing probably is more Tisha
get Dam's old and having to be rescued by her husband.
Um yeah than that. Like, yeah, it pretty much, and
it subverts a lot without making a big show of it.
Like it just I don't know. It's it's a fun movie.
(47:12):
It is, and queer icon cousin it will say it,
and the Thing as well at it. Yeah. I love that.
When the Thing was tapping stuff out in Morris Cota
was like things working over time this week. I love it.
Oh goodness, let's write the movie on our nipple scale
zero to five nipples. Based on its representation of women,
(47:36):
I would say because there's the same number of major
female characters as there are male characters, that's pretty rare.
Um the fact that we do see a lot of
subversions of tropes. We have these great, iconic female characters,
and yet the story isn't really about them. It's more
focused on the male characters and their relationships, you know.
(47:59):
So I think I think it's only like maybe a
two and a half. It's like, right, I hate to
give a nipple score that's right down the middle, but
that's what I've decided to do here today. So I
will give one nip to mor Tisha, one to Wednesday,
and I will give my half nipple to cousin. It's cool.
(48:23):
The end, I'm gonna do three and a half. I'm
gonna I was very um psyched to I don't know.
I mean, I think I'm probably like also a little
bit like you never expect a movie from to like
really hold up and not feel and like be like
I'm going to watch this and never feel bad about it,
Like this is great. But I think it is like
a pretty impressive feet that um yeah that, I mean
(48:47):
the two best remembered characters, and I think the two
best loved characters from this franchise are two women who
are um while you know, like underwritten in some respects,
are for the most part. I mean they have command
of For Mortitia, it's her family and and and of
her marriage as well, and she's very much an equal
(49:07):
in every way and also seems to kind of be
in charge in in a lot of ways. Wednesday is
super smart, also supported by her family, and how smart
and like funked up and weird she is in all respects.
I gave it too low. Why don't you do two
and a half? What am I thinking? I don't know,
let me persuade you. Uh. And and I also think that,
(49:29):
like the male characters in this movie are really well written.
Like it. You know, if you're looking for an example
of what a great father is, I think you can't
do better than Gomez Adams. He's yeah, I'm sure he's
a little gullible if you say you're his dead brother,
but then it turns out you're his dead brother. Yeah,
there's like no toxic masculinity in this movie. Really, they're
(49:49):
kind of true and like Pugsy. I mean, he is
very fine with being electrocated by his sister. He isn't
I feel like little boy, Like young young boy characters
are kind of often made out to be emasculated by
their sisters or female classmates or whatever it may be.
And Pugsley and Wednesday are again I think, kind of
(50:11):
similar to uh, Mortisia and Gomes where their equals and uh,
the woman's kind of doing a little more in a
lot of cases. And yeah, I don't know, I think
I think it's great female villain. I gotta I got
three and a half. I almost want to say for
I'm three and a half nips. I'm going to give
one to Wednesday, one of Morticia, one of Gomez, and
(50:32):
a half to the thing. Hell yeah, I'm gonna switch
mind to three and a half. Also, I made a
mistake earlier. I'll admit it. I've never this is my
first mistake, but here it is. Um So, whoever's you
know keeping track of our Wikipedia page and the recording. Yeah,
three and a half, And I'll give my extra nipple
to um Granny because I think we could have seen
(50:53):
a little bit more her, you know, older women representation.
It's there, but it's not that strong, So let's I
want Granny to be a bigger part of the narrative
next time. It yea three and a half for me too.
You know, I thought it was great, Like I said, yeah,
it could have been like a stronger plot line for
the women featured in the film. You know, there's like
(51:14):
that light naggie woman nous to the bad female characters are.
But but you know, I don't. I think it's in
the way where it's like, you know, fat and salt,
you sparingly so you know, not too bad. But yeah,
I rocked it. Love more Tissia, Love Wednesday. But yeah,
I guess one nipple to Wednesday, two to more Tissia,
(51:36):
and uh I have to cousin it too, you know,
since everyone's doing it, I'll give cousin. It's just one
big nipple under Their part of the thrill is the
mystery of it a true true true They had their baby?
Oh yeah, what their baby? What? I'm actually gonna give
(51:58):
this four. I probably bias, but I feel like these
women affected so much of my life and my personality,
so much of my brand is them. I love Wednesday
just because she is the smartest person in the family.
You know, they gave that to a little girl. Um,
she's like the surry of her family. Like, she's great
(52:19):
at science. She's super into stem you know, she experiments,
she knows chemicals really well. She knows how to push
it just far enough that she doesn't actually kill her brother,
but clearly could. She could probably kill everyone in her
family if she wanted to. Um, she uses bigger words
than me, So I respect that. UM. And yeah, I
like Mortsia. I like that they kept her. Like there's
(52:42):
a way about her sexuality that doesn't feel like it's
a joke or doesn't feel like she's you know, I
love Jessica Rabbit, but like she doesn't feel like that,
you know, like she feels like so heavily sexualized and objectified, whereas, yeah,
she's heavily sexualized, but like in an and in a
consensual way with the man that she's in love with.
(53:03):
And what I love about that is when a lot
of guys are like my queen, you know or whatever
on Twitter, like he actually treats her like a queen,
like he in the second movie, like you were saying,
he was like, I'm something is wrong. I want you
to feel good too, you know after she had her baby. Yeah,
I just I love like he was like, I would
die for her and like the way he says that,
(53:23):
You're like, oh, he would literally die for her on
her for Yeah, she's coming every day. So I love that.
And yeah, so I'm giving it a four two of mine.
Actually I'm going to give wait, how many I can't
do math, I'm going to give to to Wednesday, one
(53:44):
to more Titia, and one to is it Margaret for
leaving her husband, being a woman who realized that she
deserved better, leaving her husband for someone that would actually
take care of her and being happy. And it's a
queer relationship because cousin it is a queer anyway on board. Uh, well,
thank you to the both of you so much for
(54:05):
being here. Um, what would you like to plug as
individuals as a podcast? You name it anything? I think nerdifficent?
You know, listen, we're talking about a bunch of nerdy stuff.
If you like here and nerds talk about nerds stuff,
Listen to that. It's super fun. Danny's a treat. I'm
(54:26):
there too, uh and Horny Lord of Common just getting
that line up together. Sure, but yeah, we really like
to tackle. I think when Iffie and I started it,
we just wanted to. We were two people that I
feel like, uh got left out of the conversation a
(54:47):
lot as far as representation in NERD fandoms and stuff,
and I feel like there's so much gate keeping that
now we get to talk about some of our favorite
topics with people that are making them, you know, talk
with directors, We talked with show runners, we talked with
voice actors, and it's just really cool that we're kind
of like taking the fandom back. Um, so if you're
into that, and also it's a it's an educational it's
(55:10):
a fun you know, comedy based educational things. So like
if if you don't know a lot about Star Trek
or you don't know a lot about Buffy the Vampire Slayer,
you can listen to funny people talk about it. It's
a guilt free zone. I've like stepped into fandoms and
jack shit about and I was like, I don't feel
bad about myself. Yes, please let's listen to nerdificent. Thanks
(55:32):
again for being any individual socials you want to plug
or anything. I'm at MS Danny Fernandez, Yeah, Me'm if
you wid Way on Twitter and Instagram, if he's on Twitch,
if you like to watch people play video games, and yeah,
right on, and you can follow us on all the
social media's at backtel Cast. We are on Patreon aka Matreon.
(55:56):
It's five dollars a month. You get too bonus episodes
every month, and it's uh patreon dot com slash Bechtel
Cast and go to t public dot com slash the
Epectel Cast if you want to get those dry scaps
wet scaps shirts. And time for Halloween, baby, and even
it's like, I'm beetle juice. We actually have a lot
of Halloween work, It's true. Uh and until next time? Uh,
(56:18):
what did we did? We never did the theme song.
There's some creepy and the cooky all together sky something
family clapped. I'm like wow, Okay, Caitlin's canceled me. Okay, bye,
On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in
best start changing it with the Beckdel Cast. Hello and
welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Toronte
is Jamie Loftez and oh oh no please, and we
(00:23):
talk about the representation of women in film on our
podcast that you're listening to right now. What do we do?
We use the Bechtel test first of all, met made
by Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test, that
requires a piece of media have two female identified characters
(00:44):
with names talking to each other about something other than
a man for more than two lines of dialogue. Wow,
should we test it out? Let's do it? Okay, Hey Jamie,
Hey Caitlin. Did you know that I regularly misused the
word whenever? No? Because I do, and our fans tell
me about it all the time. What way are you
(01:05):
using UM? I think I use it when I should
just be saying the word when. But but I say whenever. Honestly,
I think you should get dragged for a free product
that anyone can listen to um and absolutely don't even
need to weigh in. But you mean, I think it's
very useful. Do you feel bad about yourself? No? Good? Yeah,
there you go, perfect? Thank you. Then the internet is
(01:28):
not doing its job if you don't feel like absolutely garbage.
That's so everyone, should you know, try harder to set
it up? I mean, really, roaster, just kidding, please, don't
it passes cool? So to get down to damn business,
we're talking about representation of women in scary families. Scary
families specifically the Adams family. So today we're covering the
(01:52):
film from ninety one. We have guests multiple plural. They've
both been on the podcast before separately, but they're here
together because they're the co host of Nerdificent. It's Danny
Fernandez and Iffy way Way Hi four told Crossover it
(02:13):
finally finally welcome during spooktober yah, Um, what are you
guys history with this franchise? Danny start, Oh my gosh,
I'm obsessed. I tweet about more Titia and Gomez more
than any normal person should. I also have a bunch
(02:34):
of artwork of them in my apartment, so I have
like above my bed I had forever. I moved it,
but it was a picture of Gomez like swooping, swooping.
What does a dance move? Where they're there? Thank you, Iffy.
He's swooping, he's dipping more Titia and has like his
(02:54):
face like in her neck, and I'm like, I don't
want any guy in this bed that isn't doing that.
So that's like representation, uh huh. And then like right
when you walk into my place, I have a picture
of him like kissing her hand. So yeah, I'm obsessed
with them, and that is their goals. They are goals, right, yeah, yeah,
(03:17):
terrific if he what about you? Yeah, yeah, you know,
watched Adams Family like everyone else, you know, I thought
it was a good franchise, fun show. The cartoon was fun.
I think now my relationship with you know, the Adams
Family is every woman I have a crush on looks
like more tissue or Wednesday, any variation of the two.
(03:40):
Just getting into that beautiful Jamie. What about your time
of year? I'm like a long time fan. We had
we had a book of the comics at my house.
I don't know who it belonged to, but like the
comics in the illustration style of Charles Adams. I really
really really loved when I was younger. I weirdly, I
think I've only seen this movie one time before or
(04:00):
but I remember they used to show like repeats of
the TV show on TV Land, and I was deep
into that deeply unfunny television show. Loved it, loved loved,
loved lie lovel laugh track. I live for it. But
this is my first time seeing the movie in I mean,
at least a decade, and it was so lovely to revisit.
(04:22):
What's your history with the Adam family. Well, this might
be a wild thing for me to admit, but I
had never seen this movie nor its sequel, Adam's Family Values. Um.
But like, I'm familiar with all of the characters, Like
I knew about more Tisha, I knew about Wednesday, I
knew about Cousin. It like all the whole the hand
they've infiltrated our cultural zeit, guys, it is like a
(04:45):
cultural osmosis kind of thing. Yeah, but I was watching
and I was like, and I thought I had seen it,
but I was like, wait a minute, I've never seen
this movie, but it was a delight Uh, and we're
focusing on the first one from nine one, but you know,
if if anyone has any thoughts on the sequel, uh
by all means share them. It's so funny because I
(05:06):
always forget Go Maz is rawl Julia because I always
remember all Julia as Imbison from the street Fighter movie,
the fact that that was his last film that he's
done in his life and it's dedicated to him at
the end, and so you know, I listened to the
credits and that's all I think of when I was like, no,
(05:26):
he that was a way better performance as him as
Go Maz, But for some reason, I just see him.
That was Tuesday for me. I was gonna say the
original Gomez was also John Aston, who Sean Aston's dad, Right, Yeah,
I love us. I love an acting dynasty. Scary, it
(05:47):
makes me mad, but I like it allow it. I
wanted to point out two things just about values out
of family values, because we're just focusing on the first one.
I do love that both of the movies had a
female villain. I love that. And then Pubert, their son,
who's like a tiny Gomez, is actually a girl. They're
(06:09):
too twin girls with just like they put little baby
mustaches on. Yeah, so technically they passed the back toel
test just with the true with their cooing to each other. Yeah,
I didn't know that. That's uh, you know what, babies
are so androgynous. It turns out, um, should I just
(06:31):
dive into the weekend of geting up a picture of
Pubert and Pubert? Wow? Wow, I kind to see the
second one. I also read that the second one is
supposed to be like the better movie, but it just well,
that's not the one. It was funny because going into it,
I was thinking I was watching the second, but I
was like, oh no, the first one is different because
I was like, oh wait, this is a fake fester
(06:53):
fake fester alert. Yeah, the second one was slapped super
hard because yeah, the camps scene and Wednesday appropriating Native
American culture was super hot back in the day. But
then also like making a statement we shouldn't like colonizers
shouldn't have done that to indigenous people, just like a
(07:14):
woke white woman with dreads. You know. I was like,
you know, I don't know what to do with you.
Also like who are their parents? That one of them
is Latino and the other is white. You know, I'm like,
what is this family, like you know, Gomez, and then
there's Fester and I'm like, clearly adopted someone at what
is happening here? Okay Latin x icon. Yes, I'm going
(07:38):
to dive into the recap and then we'll go from there. Okay.
So we meet this cookie spooky family, the Adams family.
The patriarch, if you will, is Gomez Adams. His wife.
His wife is more Titia. Um, that's Angelica Houston. Of course.
Her mother is grand played by Judith Malina, not to
(08:03):
be confused with Alfred. Although he's a chameleon, could have
played the role. He could have played literally any character
in this film. He would have actually been a great
fake Fester yeah. Um. And then there are two children,
Wednesday Adams Christina Riccie of course and Pugsley. There's a
(08:24):
detached hand called thing that lives with them. He's their pet,
I'm not sure or who knows, kind of like a butler.
But then they also have a butler urch sometimes you
need two butlers, uh. And they all live together in
this huge, creepy house and they love anything that's dark
(08:45):
and morbid. So years ago Gomez lost his brother Fester,
and every year the family has done a seans to
try to bring him back. Meanwhile, the Adams family lawyer
Tully Alfred played by and Hidea Uh and his wife,
his wife Margaret, they're financially desperate and they're trying to
(09:06):
figure out a way to get some of the Adams
family fortune because they are inexplicably very wealthy. Well, I
like how the story is like, we don't need to
explain why because none of them have jobs, and they
go out of the way to remind you that none
of them have jobs. You're just like, they're just an
independently wealthy, scary family. Yes, So one of Tully's clients,
(09:28):
Mrs Craven, pays them a visit to collect a debt
that Tully owes her and Mrs Craven's son, Gordon Christopher Lloyd,
looks a lot like a photo of the long lost
Fester Adams, so they decide to have Gordon pretend to
be Fester as a way to try to get the
Adam's money. Quick question, is Mrs Craven, that's murder? She wrote, right, No,
(09:53):
isn't murder, she wrote, Angela Landsberg. Then no, that's not her?
Was that your runner? Way? We're not about way? Of
asking if it was Angela Murder, she wrote, I just
forget her name, but now I know it's Angela Wynne.
There it is Mrs Potts, And we'll always say Festers missing.
(10:14):
He's like literally missing right there. He's not He's in
the Bermuda triangle it. They're saying, right, yeah, yeah, we're
talking Fester. I do have to take one quick second
for us to put some respect on the game where
you held the two metal things that would vibrate super
hard and then smoke would come out of his mouth dusters.
(10:34):
It scared me for so long as a child because
I thought it was really electrocuting you. It was like,
I don't think I can handle all those volts. Um.
So the family does their annual sciance and Gordon as Fester,
shows up pretending to have been summoned by the Sands,
along with Mrs Craven, who was pretending to be a
(10:56):
German psychologist who is like helping esther. By the way,
that's a hat on the hat. She didn't have to
do that. She just wanted to, like, I want to
do some sneaking around too. She's like, I took an
improv class. It's like I gotta get some use out
of this improv increases the likelihood of them getting caught
(11:18):
by a lot, right. I might even go as far
to say the reason they were suspicious was because she
was there. She's like, why has practiced this German accent?
I have to use itsically trained. So then fake Fester
(11:40):
settles into the Adams house, but tells the family that
he can only stay for a week because he has
to get back to the Bermuda Triangle Wednesday. Adams is
suspicious of him immediately, but everyone else, especially Gomez, is
like delighted to see him, and he asks Fester for
forgiveness for betraying him in their past, because there's this
(12:00):
whole thing where Gomez wooed these twins Flora and Fauna
because he was just super jealous of Fester's charm. But
Fester can't seem to remember anything from their childhood, like
the secret password or the combination to the vault, or
how to remove this like finger trap thing. So now
Gomez suspects this man to be an impostor and gets
(12:23):
very upset, and he's crashing his model trains together. I
love the model trained. That's like a carryover from the
TV series too. He's just a yeah, trains guy and
also the guy that's in it that looks out and
that's the director. Um. So Fake Fester knows that they
(12:45):
are onto him, but he still hasn't found the family fortune.
And then his mom, Mrs Craven, who's pretending to be
the doctor, shows up and convinces Gomez that he's experiencing displacement,
which is why he's angry and thinks Festers a fraud
and everyone believes her. So Gomez once again is like,
is convinced that Fester, this guy is his real brother.
(13:08):
How are they so rich for the fact that they
can get duped so easily? Right, duped and undooped just
as all, Yeah he's got Gomez is just an impressionable guy.
He wants to believe the best. It's true, Yeah, it's true. Meanwhile,
Fake Fester is bonding with the children Wednesday and Pugsley,
and he helps them with their performance at the school
(13:29):
play and everyone is excited about Fester again and he's
starting to feel like part of the Adams family, but
his mom is like, I'm your family. You've got to
get out of there, find the money and run. So
the family throws Fester this big ball and the whole
Adams clan is invited. Iconic cousin it is there. Um
(13:54):
As Fester is getting ready and talking to his mom
about getting into the vault, Wednesday x in on them
and she's like, I knew it, You're a fake. And
then he chases after her but he can't find her.
No one can find her. And then he goes to
the ball and pretends everything is normal. There's a whole
dance sequence, terrific, great, That whole party is just so good,
(14:18):
and I feel like takes place in this world, Like
there were a lot of good scary dances in the
nineties and movies like The Dance and Casper was another
big scary dance that in like an old creaky mansion.
Loved it, loved it. And then after a while, the
family realizes that Wednesday has disappeared, so they go out
(14:38):
to find her, and when they come back to the house,
their lawyer, Tully, has seized the house and issued a
restraining order, saying that it now belongs to their oldest
living relative, Fester, and that he's still bitter about Gomez's
betrayal regarding Flora and Fauna so now the family has
banished from their home and they're despondent. They try to
(14:59):
integrate into society that doesn't work out very well for them. Meanwhile, Fester,
now that he has the house to himself, he and
his mom and Tully are all trying to break into
the vault to get the money, but they can't figure
out how, and Fester seems to like miss the atoms
Is and We're like, what's going on there? And then
more Titia sneaks out and goes back to the house,
(15:21):
but Mrs Craven and Tully tie her up to get
the information about how to access the vault, and then
Gomez shows up to rescue her, and Fester doesn't want
to hurt the atoms Is because maybe he is one
of them actually, and then his mom is like, I
should have left you where I found you, and then
we're all like what, and then Fester's like, you're a
terrible mother, and then he unleashes a hurricane on them
(15:44):
that lives in a book, which also electrocutes Fester with
a bolt of lightning, which restores his memory, and it
turns out that Mrs Craven had kidnapped Fester years ago.
But he got amnesia and he didn't remember that he
was in fact member of the Atom. I totally forgot
this part. I don't know. I was watching it on
(16:04):
on my plane on the way here, and it's totally
skipped over that. Yeah, so he is by blood or
maybe adopted, but he was raised as an atom's right.
And that ending confirms this total fact, which is faster
can grow hair. He just shaves it all. He just
saves it all. I didn't even think about that. Yeah,
(16:26):
it's always oh man. I honestly like I forgot the
entire what happens in this movie, and I was floored
by the twist. I was like, wait, that's it's what
we thought at the beginning. I loved it. I know
it was beautiful. I loved it. And that means that
(16:46):
Gomez is purity of heart is actually the right thing
to do, because he was was right all along. He's
actually very intuitive. He knows his brother. That's true. Let's
take a quick break and we'll come right back, and
we're back. That was kind of a a spooky and
(17:07):
they're back back back. So where do we want to
start with this film? We've got an embarrassment of riches here.
There's so there's so many fun female characters. Start with
more Tisha, Let's do it. She's great, I mean an
icon she is. This is weird that I like she
(17:30):
I love I love that she's both very much in charge,
but it's also very soft spoken. I feel like you
don't get characters. Yea. I will say that because I
remember watching this and be like, oh, I don't remember
her voice being that high pitch, but I think you
watch it forget and then you see pictures and I
was like, oh, she must have a deep voice because
she commands so much power, right, But yeah, no, Angelica Houston,
(17:53):
she actually didn't base it off of the original more Tisha.
She based it off of Gray Gardens. Oh yeah, that's
how she came up with how she was acting in
the wild. And they kept some of the things, like
they kept the her clipping the roses, like that's from
the show. But I think she wanted a different take
(18:14):
that was more true to her, like what she thought
she could bring to it. I mean, it's such a
like the jokes that she delivers, which are a lot
of them. With her performance, it ends up being this
like dead pan delivery and it's so funny and it's
so great. Yeah, I love it. As far as her
character so well, first of all, she's a horny icon
(18:35):
verry sex positive, I mean her income as like their
relationship is great. Yeh. That's why I was watching this,
was like, I'm the right man for the job. You
got the Horny Lord of Comedy. If you wa wait
here checking in clocking in? Is that a nickname you
gave your Yeah, just feel free to tag was it
(18:59):
horn Lord of Comedy? Alright, that's going to be the
movie I'd come out with with three other horny comics,
The Horny Lords of Comedy. That's your like national tour, Like,
oh man, did you check out The Horny Lords of Comedy?
I mean, if you said, was good? But b l
Huglia kind of weak. Not I had tweeted about Gomez,
(19:24):
I was like, I want someone like him, and by
that I mean a Latino millionaire that can talk to
the dead, because I was like, that's just so on
brand for me. The thing that I love about I know,
we're talking about mor Tisia. The thing I like about
Gomez though, is that he's okay with male affection, Like
I love that. I love like he kisses Fester, which
(19:45):
like guard but he's very like he cries openly, he
worships his wife. Like I just love all of that. Yeah,
but I love that they're super sex positive. Yeah, he's
like very emotionally open and vulnerable and by contrast, like
maybe more Titia to a lesser extent, just because she's like, hey, kids,
(20:05):
you should keep trying to kill each other more. I
like that. I feel like that like that subverts like
a lot of mom tropes that shut and all the
time of just like the mom has to be I mean,
not that Morticia isn't nurturing, She's very supportive of her kids,
but like the you know, emotionally more forward when where
it seems like Gomez is kind of the has that
role in the family of expressing it, I mean, and
(20:28):
even like when it seems like Fester isn't his brother
after all, or the Fester that they're given isn't, you know,
he's like devastated and like openly devastated and doesn't hide it.
And I also like that the movie doesn't try to
make it seem silly that like a man is expressing
his emotions too, because I feel like sometimes when male
characters and movies do it's framed by the movie is
(20:50):
like how embarrassing for that, how pathetic something for Grama
is it's just like a part of the story and
its like it makes sense, and it's so I love
that the main women in the family are very a
level headed, so like Morticia and Wednesday, you know, like
Morticia always keeps her cool even when Gomez is freaking out,
and the same with Wednesday, Like she's just so same thing.
(21:10):
She's dead pan. She like definitely wears the pants between
her and Pugsley and is always like he that's her
little guinea pig, right, And by extension, it doesn't seem
to bother the men either. They're not like hey stop
that elect care. I mean, yeah, I know we're all
over the place. Well, we'll get to every character. We'll
(21:31):
give them all their due time. But like, just to
pick you back off what you were saying, Danny about
the two siblings, Wednesday and Pugsley, Like, first of all,
Wednesday is the first and kind of only one who's
like very immediately suspicious of a very suspicious scenario. Um,
And so I don't know if that's like kind of
(21:53):
playing to like the women's intuition trope, or if it's
just that she's really smart and observant, that's what I
choose to believe it's happening. Um. So, yeah, she's super
smart and curious and observant. Um. I would say that
she's the more developed, more active, and better remembered character
than Pugsley for sure. I like that she's given a
like specific academic interest. She loves the Bermuda Triangle and
(22:17):
she studies it, and she like studies her like she
has an interest in her family. When she brings up
Calpurnia right right on, you're like, oh, she's you know,
she's digging it. Like yeah. She also talks way more
than Pugsley. She has far more lines of dialogue, which
I think is unusual for Also, I don't know how
(22:37):
old Christina Ricci was, but like, damn, I was watching
like she was so good. She was on par with
the adults in the film. She was eleven when this
movie came out. Insane. Yeah, she's and then and then
she you know, got like pigeonholed in the in the
scary nineties movies for a while because she was in Casper.
And she's also perfect in Casper. Do we want to
(22:59):
talk about let's say, or go back to more Tisa. Gosh,
I'm just excited. I know, it's just so exciting. Um,
so yeah, let's let's return back to Morticia for a moment.
My big thing with her as it relates to the
narrative is so towards the end, they've been banished from
their house, and Morticia is the one who's like, this
(23:21):
isn't right. I'm going to go do something about this.
So she's the one who like sneaks out, takes the
initiative and goes back to their home in an effort
to correct the injustice that's been brought upon them. Um.
But she gets immediately captured and damseled and like tied
to a slab, and so she doesn't get to accomplish anything,
which is very frustrating. Which does and that, Yeah, that's
(23:43):
like a shitty tropy thing. The only good thing about
that is that she they that that they get kinky
about this lab, true, which is fun because Gomas has
to come in and rescue her and then they get
horny in regards to this lab. That's true. Yeah, they
could have capitalized on that opportunity to have her go
try to do something and then accomplish something and maybe
(24:04):
like whether or not she's completely successful whatever, but the
fact that she doesn't even get to do anything because
she's immediately captured and then has to be rescued. That
was she also got a job and Gomez didn't right, Yes,
Gomes was like sitting around watching TV, super depressed and
then she went out and I d a teacher teacher right,
(24:25):
which is a great scene too. Yeah, I don't mean,
I don't know. I wasn't sure what to make of
her getting a job in Gomez not I feel like
it sort of made sense for the story, Like it
was like it seemed like he was suffering depression and
she was like, well, I need to go make money
because our financial situation is intentionally obscured to serve the plot.
(24:47):
And I don't know, Yeah, I I that didn't super
super bother me. And I also think it's it's like,
especially in the early nineties, like the mom being the
breadwinner is actually kind of like a little bit supper.
And then we also get to see like the interview
pro where the interview was like, oh, so you've been
a homemaker and you're trying to re enter the workforce.
That's actually pretty normal, right now, um, where did you
(25:09):
go to college? And then she's like, tutors, what was
your major? Spells? And hexa and she's like, we'll say
liberal Arts. And I was like, the comedy in this
movie so funny, But yeah, I actually liked that. Like
we see her be the one to go out and
get a job and try to support the family. She's
very often the one to find the solution for a problem,
(25:32):
and it's just like, I don't know, her and gum
As have such like a functional good relationship where when
there's a problem, they split up the responsibilities and one
of themselves the problem. It's pretty easy, like when Wednesday
goes missing in that weird sequence where she ends up
sleeping on a grave and then they're like, well, anyways,
next scene, go Ma solves that one. What was that?
(25:52):
What does anyone know? Why? Why that happened? She runs
away to escape Fester because she got caught finding out
that Fester is an impostor. Again she had suspected it,
but then this is her confirming it because she walks
in on the right the shaving of the head, and
(26:14):
then so she runs away to avoid like being hunted
down by them. Yeah, that's how that happened. But yeah,
I mean, similar to Wednesday being suspicious about Fester, you
see Mortisia being eventually suspicious as well. Like she you
can just sense that she's not quite as on board
as Gomez is, because Gomez has been blinded by the
(26:38):
excitement of Fester returning and he like cannot look at
anything rationally. But more Titia is like, I'm happy that
he's home. But also this is a bit suss. She
takes him out to the graveyard and like warns him
of like just so you know, if you funk with us,
you'll be in one of these graves. And then like
you're just like, oh okay. So she's a little visions,
(27:02):
you know. She like gives him a stern She's like
Christopher Lloyd don't. Also, this is the most I love
this family. They're the most confusing because it's clear that
they want to die, but yet they you know what
I mean, it's like, don't work with us. But then
it was like cyanide, like we'd run out, you know,
and it's just like you know, they clearly I kept
running into that with the Adams family values, because they
(27:23):
were upset they kept trying to kill the kid, even
though they wanted their kids to try and kill each other.
I'm like, this is so and they like had a
had a background process for the nanny, and I'm just like,
why don't you want They're just they're very confusing. Maybe
it's a family rules where it's like it's like we
can kill each other, but strangers killed. I buy that.
(27:46):
I like that they there's so many rules of the
Adams family universe that just are blatantly unexplained to the
print where it didn't even occur to me to question
them because it's just like Cannon like went, we don't
know why no one else is scary they and it's
all so I'm like, how old are they? We don't know.
It seems like they might be immortal, but but then
also could be hard to say. Yeah, the wife, I
(28:08):
forgot her name, Toty's wife, right, I love Margaret that
he doesn't respect her, so she left his ass. You know. Um, Also,
short guys do win? Look I date short guys. She
went for a guy shorter than her. Yeah, cousin it
because he treated her well. See, that's that's what we
(28:31):
want that's true because it's very respectful. You don't know
what happens when he flips that hair up. He can shredded.
Sh He's all dick. It's all dick. He covered in hair.
I choose to believe that even though he pronouns are
(28:53):
used for cousin it and I also think are used
he pronouns are used for a thing. Yeah. I think
that they are both genderless non binary icons. But you
know that's just my head canon. I had one more
thing on Mortisia before we moved on from her was
I liked that scene where she goes to Wednesday school.
This is when we find out where that Wednesday has
(29:13):
made like a school project about her great aunt Calpurnia,
who was burned as a witch in seventeen oh six.
They said she danced naked in the town square and
enslaved the minister. But I like that they're in this
phase where Mortisia is being set up by the teacher
to like be worried about her daughter and like call
her weird and say like, oh, something is wrong, and
(29:35):
Mortisia just, I don't know it's weird because it is.
She does know what's happening, but she just totally steamrolls
it very calmly, and she's just like, oh, yeah, isn't
that the coolest fucking thing you've ever seen in your life?
My daughter is so great. And then the teacher is
just like like the teachers just pokemon stunned and they
move on. Like there's like she has a lot of
(29:56):
moments like that where you know, she knows what's going on,
but she's like not even going to get into an
argument about it, and she's so like cool and collected
that no one ever challenges her. It's the it's aspirational.
More Titia is so great the movie, though both this
and its sequel are the stories are focused, I would say,
(30:18):
largely on the relationship between Fester and Gomez. So even
though we have these great female characters, the narrative is
focused on like the patriarch of the family and then
his brother. You know that I found especially maybe sure
that's the first movie. Sequel could have been about something
more focused on more Tissue, which actually they hire a
(30:41):
nanny because more Tissa is like, I would like to
pursue some interests outside of the home, and we're like, okay, cool,
that's cool. But then she never does anything. So that
was um the big frustration for me for Adam's family values.
But um, yeah, both movies are about like they're focusing
(31:02):
on these male relationships, so the female characters end up
being more supporting roles rather than you know, the heroes
of the story. The you know, and it's an ensemble cast,
but um, the focus is still on men and male relationships,
which is kind of funny because I think, like the
iconic characters from this franchise are to female characters. Wednesday. Yeah,
(31:27):
so like, in spite of the way that these movies
are are written, it's still like cream rises to the top.
Although I love going As so much too, Pugs, I
can kind of it's like the least cause played character.
I do think that it's weird that it's the same
like story. I almost feel like the Studio because it's
(31:48):
about Fester essentially listening to a woman who takes him
away from his family. That's like both stories, Like I
just found because I watched them back to back the
other night and I was like, this is is like
the same thing. He's listening to a woman that wants
to take him away from his family. Like it's just
fascinating to me like being on the other side of
it now that the studio wouldn't be like, hey, so
(32:09):
maybe let's change this more. But they're like worked the
first time. Let's see what happen, And it is cool that,
like you have parody between men and women as far
as like there are female villains in both movies. And
then like also in the first movie, like Tully ends
up being irredeemable, but then also like Fester, who is
(32:32):
in on the scheme in the first place because he
doesn't know that he's actually in Adams, he ends up
being redeemable. So it's like there's nice, a nice balance there,
Like we all, I always like to see a female villain,
assuming they're handled responsibly, which is when I think mostly
it is I think she's a good female, like because
you're always worrying like, oh, is this going to be
a female villain that is like relegated to only using
(32:54):
her sexuality as a weapon or like what but but
this is a I mean, abigailis a goofy villain, major goofibes.
And then there's also that bizarre like that sexual tension
between her and Fester that you're like where she well,
there are all those scenes where she's getting real close
(33:14):
and she's like, you know, to me, she's shaving, she's
shaving him, she's shaving him down to you know, his skin,
and being like, tell mommy you love her. Yeah. There's
also I mean, this is maybe a stretch, but I
feel like there's the light suggestion that the villain, who
is a woman in the first movie, is so baby
(33:35):
crazy that she will kidnap an adult man and raise
him as her son. Yeah. I was like, um, okay,
but it is very funny to me that Fester would
have been an adult when she found him, and then
she's like, but you're I'm your mommy, mommy. Going back
(33:57):
a little bit to Gomez and how he is this
really sensitive father, I think by that same token, one
of the things that endears us to Fester is that
he takes an interest in the children in like this
very nurturing role. Um, because nurturing relationships like that with
(34:19):
children are usually relegated to female characters. So the fact
that it's we get to see this random uncle who's
been gone for twenty five years, who would have never
met those children, was like, yeah, but you're nice and
I like you, and let's I'm gonna teach you about scabs, which,
by the way, Jamie, I know at the topic of interest,
(34:40):
does it you know, it's it's getting to be Halloween,
and we have to reevaluate once again. Does beetlejuice come
wet scaps or dry scaps? Thoughts? And we don't. We're
so sorry to bring talk about It's definitely scabs. So
you're so sure that juice comes scabs? Yes, in the
real and in how are you? How do you talking
(35:01):
about this mathematically based on the assumption, which we've deduced
to be mostly true, that beetle juice comes scabs. Do
you think that bee juice would come wet scabs? I
think like like a laser jet printer printing a lot
of full color photos, or dry scabs, which would be
like a deck of Tarot cards being shuffled. Do you
(35:22):
remember the commercial in the nineties for creepy Crawlers. That's
what I think. He comes like those jelly little crawley
spiders that you could like bake in the boy's equivalent
of an easy bake oven or whatever they have. So
you're saying wet but also hot. No, they were like
they were like they were like gummy. It was a
(35:43):
gummy so you put it in the sas or out
of the equation. Yeah, I'm sorry, he comes creepy crawlers.
See how there's boys that's unfortunately not canon, Danny, that
there's boys that when clearly I owned one of the
I do want to, you know, quote my my algebra
teacher and say show your work, because I need to
(36:04):
know how we got to the scabs. I've got. I mean,
I've got. First of all, look at the man. He's
covered in scabs, covered in scabs. We have no reason
to believe that he wouldn't come scabs. More guys is
not can Thanks for playing everyone, but try again next
(36:25):
year definitely comes scabs, all right? When when I when
we have the writer people juice on Nertificent and we
ask all our loyal listeners who send in their pictures
every year with their team dry Scabs and Team Wet
Scabs T shirts. It's a whole team pus rise up,
but no shirts for you. Don't be afraid. Don't be
(36:47):
afraid to come us the scot there's a book about
scabs in this movie, flipping through it's it's one of
the ways that Fester bonds with his niece and nephew.
We have smelled your scabs before, so good. We got
(37:07):
to take a break, but we'll come right back. And
we're back. We're back, and we're gonna we cannot refuse.
I'm going to cut this out. It is important Halloween discourse.
(37:30):
One of the last things I wanted to bring up
is So and Danny. You touched on this a bit
as well. But Um, Gomez, the character and the actor
who plays him, Raoul Julia are Latin X. There's an
article in teen Vogue by writer Ella Serone entitled The
Adams Family's Gomez Adams was my first glimpse of Latin
(37:53):
X representation, and I just have a few quotes that
I'd like to read from that. Um there was Gomez Adams.
He was the first time I ever saw my own
dad reflected back to me on a big screen. The
prevalence of solid Latin X fathers in pop culture is
meager now. For every Jane the Virgin storyline, there are
also many more stereotypes floating around, feeding into the narrative
(38:16):
of machismo and patriarchy that so many of us are
trying now to course correct. When the first Adams Family
movie first debuted appropriate representation was rarer. Still, No, Gomez
was not a realistic father per se. The family pet
was a disembodied hand, but he was a devoted one.
The fact, and here's another quote from the same article,
(38:38):
the fact that Gomez was played by a Latino X
actor was not lost on me either. Julia accentuated his
Puerto Rican accent and speech patterns in order to heighten
the character's theatricality. With all due respect to John Aston
and Tim Curry, who have also played the character, all
other interpretations of Gomez were aberrations. In my mind, I
(38:59):
understood Gomez to be Latin X like my dad because
that is what I knew, and he still is now
that Oscar Isaac is voicing him in the new animated movie,
which is why we are covering this uh Adam's family
right now because of the new animated movie that's coming out.
So I thought that was worth mentioning um because of
(39:21):
the little and not good representation generally of Latin X
characters in media. I love the fact that they did
keep Oscar Isaac and I think I can't predict the future,
but I think that he will stay um not Oscar.
I wish that they had a live action of him.
I kind of wish the cartoon, but I think Gomez
(39:43):
will stay latin x like for the next decade at least.
I mean, his name is Gomex. But in my mind,
I'm like, so is Wednesday Latina? Um? Possibly, I don't know.
I'm gonna We're gonna claim her. Chloe Grace Moretz is
out because she's who voices Wednesday. Rewrite it instead of Wednesday.
(40:05):
She's miracles now nice. The whole time trying to do
that joke, I was remembering the song I learned in
Spanish class, Days of the Weeks Luon Martes miracles virness.
Uh what Luna lu luncleless. Yeah, you know that's the song.
(40:30):
Svine was Lunes Martes miracles vierness, the fourth one sin
the days of the week. Wow, I can't believe I
forget Friday. No, you said Fridays, So what's Thursday? Oh yeah,
Oh that's why I'd like, let it miracles vierness the
(40:55):
days of the week. Beautiful. Someone's probably like cramming for
their Spanish final and then they're listening to this, They're like,
oh my gosh, I'll save me. You're welcome every find
Senora Martinez. Can I listen to podcasts while I take
this test? It takes we have so many seventh graders
taking Intro to Spanish as our listener. Yeah. Um. One
(41:21):
of the last things I wanted to say was, um,
I think it's very cool to see female characters like
more Titia and Wednesday being interested in like dark, morbid things,
because most movies are showing women and girls being interested
in things that are like very traditionally feminine, which is great.
(41:43):
But the fact that we only see that and the
fact that that's like a societal expectation, you know, it's whatever,
But you know, I just like to see more Titia
and Wednesday they love death. Yeah. Well, that was something
I wanted to bring up as well, just because I
was trying to research how the um, how the adaptations
have differed, and it seems like this is the adaptation
(42:07):
that really like did the most right. And actually, as
we see on this podcast all the time, where like
adaptations are done lazily or poorly or and do a
disservice to their female characters, this actually does a pretty
cool job of reversing some of the more trophy female
roles that are present in the TV series UM, where
(42:28):
Morticia doesn't really have the same presence and parody in
the household as she does in this movie. And also
um because Wednesday is like very morbid and I think,
very similar to the Christina Ricci character in the original cartoons,
but in the TV series she was kind of like
femed up a little bit. Uh. They make her more girly,
(42:48):
they make her more cute, see, and they kind of
strip her of those really dark um like interest that
Christina Ricci's character has. So I thought that that was
like a cool positive thing that the movie did was like,
first of all, stay loyal to its source material in
a way that really served it. And also just like
let the female characters be like dark and funked up
(43:10):
and cool and not have it be this you know,
point of contention for the story. This was also a
time in the nineties when like riot girl culture was
coming up, um and so I think like having women
like rebelling being into more darker things and like grunge
and um, I imagine that that influenced part of this
(43:33):
that grandberries culture is on the right ninety one and
this movie is also co written by a female writer
who Caroline Thompson is co written with Larry Wilson. But
Caroline Thompson has a pretty like crazy screenwriting record for
like this era of movies. Specifically, she was in the
(43:54):
spooky movie genre. She co wrote Edwards Scissor Hands. She
care wrote the Adams Family should cover at the Secret
Garden Nightmare before Christmas, Uh Corpse Bride like and and
the twist welcome to Marwin we don't know or We'll
welcome to. Isn't it always so crazy that whenever there's
(44:16):
a good representation of women in film, there's usually a
woman who co wrote it. It's almost like, m I
wonder what. That's My favorite thing in Adam's Family values
is when she's like, Debbie, you enslaved Fester, you took
him away from us, and that I can forgive but
pastels and she kicks her out, Like that's my favorite part.
(44:40):
She's so okay. Another thing, she's an icon for her
meme of her sipping tea. I've seen so many people
use that on Twitter than more Tisias sipping the tea.
Love it. That's the way to really establish a legacy
is to have a good gift of you sipping tea
because that means he will never truly die ever. Does
(45:01):
anyone have any other final thoughts about the film? I
want to see, Um, I forgot is it Melissa? Somebody
did a grown up Wednesday Adams, But I really hope
that that was Melissa Hunter? Right, Yeah, I want that.
I want to see her what her life is like now,
(45:22):
like a spin off. Yeah, we should, let's write it
about together iconic hell yeah. Uh does this movie pass
the Bechtel test? Yeah? It does. There are a few
different combinations more. Tisha talks to Granny, her mother. She
talks to Margaret about the finger trap and the charity auction.
(45:48):
She talks to Wednesday. She talks to Wednesday's teachers we
mentioned who has given a name Susan Perkins. They talk
about Wednesday. Um. A lot of the conversations between female
characters are about like Fester if he is an impostor,
(46:08):
or they're talking about their dad or you know, something
like that. But there are a few exchanges that definitely passed. Yeah. Yeah,
It's like it's one of those things where you're like, yeah,
it's not as much as it should and I wish
I genuinely wish that you had gotten a little more
between more Tissia and Wednesday, specifically because you see moments
where they're supporting each other and having each other's back,
but you don't actually get to see that just the
(46:29):
two of them together, um really much at all. So
I wish that there was more of that. But that's that.
I mean, for for ninety one, this movie, uh like
really holds up. I thought, yeah, they're there. I mean,
the nineties were so ripe with so much problematic stuff,
and especially comedies which were so about punching down to
(46:51):
marginalize people. So the fact that this movie doesn't subscribe
to that, the most regressive thing probably is more Tisha
get Dam's old and having to be rescued by her husband.
Um yeah than that. Like, yeah, it pretty much, and
it subverts a lot without making a big show of it.
Like it just I don't know. It's it's a fun movie.
(47:12):
It is, and queer icon cousin it will say it,
and the Thing as well at it. Yeah. I love that.
When the Thing was tapping stuff out in Morris Cota
was like things working over time this week. I love it.
Oh goodness, let's write the movie on our nipple scale
zero to five nipples. Based on its representation of women,
(47:36):
I would say because there's the same number of major
female characters as there are male characters, that's pretty rare.
Um the fact that we do see a lot of
subversions of tropes. We have these great, iconic female characters,
and yet the story isn't really about them. It's more
focused on the male characters and their relationships, you know.
(47:59):
So I think I think it's only like maybe a
two and a half. It's like, right, I hate to
give a nipple score that's right down the middle, but
that's what I've decided to do here today. So I
will give one nip to mor Tisha, one to Wednesday,
and I will give my half nipple to cousin. It's cool.
(48:23):
The end, I'm gonna do three and a half. I'm
gonna I was very um psyched to I don't know.
I mean, I think I'm probably like also a little
bit like you never expect a movie from to like
really hold up and not feel and like be like
I'm going to watch this and never feel bad about it,
Like this is great. But I think it is like
a pretty impressive feet that um yeah that, I mean
(48:47):
the two best remembered characters, and I think the two
best loved characters from this franchise are two women who
are um while you know, like underwritten in some respects,
are for the most part. I mean they have command
of For Mortitia, it's her family and and and of
her marriage as well, and she's very much an equal
(49:07):
in every way and also seems to kind of be
in charge in in a lot of ways. Wednesday is
super smart, also supported by her family, and how smart
and like funked up and weird she is in all respects.
I gave it too low. Why don't you do two
and a half? What am I thinking? I don't know,
let me persuade you. Uh. And and I also think that,
(49:29):
like the male characters in this movie are really well written.
Like it. You know, if you're looking for an example
of what a great father is, I think you can't
do better than Gomez Adams. He's yeah, I'm sure he's
a little gullible if you say you're his dead brother,
but then it turns out you're his dead brother. Yeah,
there's like no toxic masculinity in this movie. Really, they're
(49:49):
kind of true and like Pugsy. I mean, he is
very fine with being electrocated by his sister. He isn't
I feel like little boy, Like young young boy characters
are kind of often made out to be emasculated by
their sisters or female classmates or whatever it may be.
And Pugsley and Wednesday are again I think, kind of
(50:11):
similar to uh, Mortisia and Gomes where their equals and uh,
the woman's kind of doing a little more in a
lot of cases. And yeah, I don't know, I think
I think it's great female villain. I gotta I got
three and a half. I almost want to say for
I'm three and a half nips. I'm going to give
one to Wednesday, one of Morticia, one of Gomez, and
(50:32):
a half to the thing. Hell yeah, I'm gonna switch
mind to three and a half. Also, I made a
mistake earlier. I'll admit it. I've never this is my
first mistake, but here it is. Um So, whoever's you
know keeping track of our Wikipedia page and the recording. Yeah,
three and a half, And I'll give my extra nipple
to um Granny because I think we could have seen
(50:53):
a little bit more her, you know, older women representation.
It's there, but it's not that strong, So let's I
want Granny to be a bigger part of the narrative
next time. It yea three and a half for me too.
You know, I thought it was great, Like I said, yeah,
it could have been like a stronger plot line for
the women featured in the film. You know, there's like
(51:14):
that light naggie woman nous to the bad female characters are.
But but you know, I don't. I think it's in
the way where it's like, you know, fat and salt,
you sparingly so you know, not too bad. But yeah,
I rocked it. Love more Tissia, Love Wednesday. But yeah,
I guess one nipple to Wednesday, two to more Tissia,
(51:36):
and uh I have to cousin it too, you know,
since everyone's doing it, I'll give cousin. It's just one
big nipple under Their part of the thrill is the
mystery of it a true true true They had their baby?
Oh yeah, what their baby? What? I'm actually gonna give
(51:58):
this four. I probably bias, but I feel like these
women affected so much of my life and my personality,
so much of my brand is them. I love Wednesday
just because she is the smartest person in the family.
You know, they gave that to a little girl. Um,
she's like the surry of her family. Like, she's great
(52:19):
at science. She's super into stem you know, she experiments,
she knows chemicals really well. She knows how to push
it just far enough that she doesn't actually kill her brother,
but clearly could. She could probably kill everyone in her
family if she wanted to. Um, she uses bigger words
than me, So I respect that. UM. And yeah, I
like Mortsia. I like that they kept her. Like there's
(52:42):
a way about her sexuality that doesn't feel like it's
a joke or doesn't feel like she's you know, I
love Jessica Rabbit, but like she doesn't feel like that,
you know, like she feels like so heavily sexualized and objectified, whereas, yeah,
she's heavily sexualized, but like in an and in a
consensual way with the man that she's in love with.
(53:03):
And what I love about that is when a lot
of guys are like my queen, you know or whatever
on Twitter, like he actually treats her like a queen,
like he in the second movie, like you were saying,
he was like, I'm something is wrong. I want you
to feel good too, you know after she had her baby. Yeah,
I just I love like he was like, I would
die for her and like the way he says that,
(53:23):
You're like, oh, he would literally die for her on
her for Yeah, she's coming every day. So I love that.
And yeah, so I'm giving it a four two of mine.
Actually I'm going to give wait, how many I can't
do math, I'm going to give to to Wednesday, one
(53:44):
to more Titia, and one to is it Margaret for
leaving her husband, being a woman who realized that she
deserved better, leaving her husband for someone that would actually
take care of her and being happy. And it's a
queer relationship because cousin it is a queer anyway on board. Uh, well,
thank you to the both of you so much for
(54:05):
being here. Um, what would you like to plug as
individuals as a podcast? You name it anything? I think nerdifficent?
You know, listen, we're talking about a bunch of nerdy stuff.
If you like here and nerds talk about nerds stuff,
Listen to that. It's super fun. Danny's a treat. I'm
(54:26):
there too, uh and Horny Lord of Common just getting
that line up together. Sure, but yeah, we really like
to tackle. I think when Iffie and I started it,
we just wanted to. We were two people that I
feel like, uh got left out of the conversation a
(54:47):
lot as far as representation in NERD fandoms and stuff,
and I feel like there's so much gate keeping that
now we get to talk about some of our favorite
topics with people that are making them, you know, talk
with directors, We talked with show runners, we talked with
voice actors, and it's just really cool that we're kind
of like taking the fandom back. Um, so if you're
into that, and also it's a it's an educational it's
(55:10):
a fun you know, comedy based educational things. So like
if if you don't know a lot about Star Trek
or you don't know a lot about Buffy the Vampire Slayer,
you can listen to funny people talk about it. It's
a guilt free zone. I've like stepped into fandoms and
jack shit about and I was like, I don't feel
bad about myself. Yes, please let's listen to nerdificent. Thanks
(55:32):
again for being any individual socials you want to plug
or anything. I'm at MS Danny Fernandez, Yeah, Me'm if
you wid Way on Twitter and Instagram, if he's on Twitch,
if you like to watch people play video games, and yeah,
right on, and you can follow us on all the
social media's at backtel Cast. We are on Patreon aka Matreon.
(55:56):
It's five dollars a month. You get too bonus episodes
every month, and it's uh patreon dot com slash Bechtel
Cast and go to t public dot com slash the
Epectel Cast if you want to get those dry scaps
wet scaps shirts. And time for Halloween, baby, and even
it's like, I'm beetle juice. We actually have a lot
of Halloween work, It's true. Uh and until next time? Uh,
(56:18):
what did we did? We never did the theme song.
There's some creepy and the cooky all together sky something
family clapped. I'm like wow, Okay, Caitlin's canceled me. Okay, bye,
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