The Fifth Element with Danielle Radford

This week, Jamie and Caitlin invite special guest Danielle Radford to save the world and discuss The Fifth Element on this live episode recorded at The Ruby in Los Angeles!

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, It's Caitlin and Jamie and you are about
to hear our episode that we recorded live November early
November about The Fifth Element, a movie directed by Luke
Luke a popular request. We've been wanting to do this
movie forever. We were thrilled that Daniel Radford could be

(00:20):
there with us. We just wanted to say really quick
at the top that we were not aware of the
many allegations against the director of this movie, and when
we recorded that episode, we're now aware of them. Um.
So part of it is that a lot of the
story broke after we after, and some did before, but

(00:42):
the three of us were not aware of any of
this at the time this episode was recorded. So um,
if you're looking for analysis on that, and unfortunately we
didn't know, but if you do a little research, he's
basically the Harvey Weinstein of France. Yes, has been accused
of a lot of actual misconduct assault and I mean,

(01:03):
if we have any French listeners, we would love to
hear your take on it. But it seems like the
situation is being handled very differently and he is continuing
to work a problem boo. So just a little context
up top. Sorry to start a downer, but Danielle is amazing.
The episode is a blast, so fun and we hope

(01:25):
you enjoy it. Yeah. On the delcast, the questions asked
if movies have women in them? Are all their discussions
just boyfriends and husbands? Did? Do they have individuals and
the patriarchy? That the best start changing it with the
beck Del cast. Welcome to the backcast, Like, Hi, thanks

(01:48):
for so. The movie we're covering today is the Fifth Element?
By round applause? Who has seen it? Great? Okay, and
there anyone who hasn't. I hadn't, so don't be shy. Yeah,
my soul sibling. Yeah, we're talking about the Fifth Element today.

(02:11):
I am man, what a ride? What did you know?
The future is not female? The future is French, So
we've got a French as patriarchy to look forward to
according to this movie. Yeah. So we use the Bechtel
test as a jumping off point to initiate a larger
conversation about the representation and portrayal of women in movies. Uh,

(02:32):
and what is the Bechtel test? Well? The Bechtel test
is a metric created originally by cartoonist Alison Bechtel that
requires a piece of media include two female identifying characters
with names for our purposes, who speak about something other
than a man to each other for more than two
lines of dialogue. You think it would be easy, you

(02:55):
would think, and yet this movie doesn't matter. Whoops, oh
blew it at the top of the show. So I
am so tired of people being like the show is, like,
does it pass the Bechtel tis like, obviously no, it doesn't.
Ever if you're listening for seventy minutes to be like,

(03:19):
grow up, that's you know, it's a what I what
I What I've tried to say is I'm sorry, I've
had half of Mike's Hard and I'm fucked up? Uh?
Is that it is a jumping off point for discussion.
It is not by any means. There are some movies
we've done that passed the Bechtel test by two female

(03:42):
identifying characters telling each other to kill themselves. So you know,
it is not a metric of being a feminist icon
by any means. No, no, no, no, no, And tonight
to join us in our discussion. We've got a wonderful guest.
You know, we're from screen junkies and tights and fights.
It's Danielle Radford, Hi, well I did it. Also, I

(04:09):
should have brought my purse, because like, I don't sit
like a lady, and that's never more evident when I
don't just have my purse here to save me from showing. Well,
let's redefine how sitting like a lady? Okay, I sound
like a person who doesn't care if you see her vagina. Right,

(04:30):
So maybe not like a lady, but just like a
human who doesn't want to be arrested. Okay, I only
wear skirts and I don't cross my legs up, guys,
an icon in your right, I am the Jaden Smith. Okay,
so we're talking about the fifth element. Danielle, what is

(04:51):
your history your relationship with the movie. So, this is
one of my favorite movies. Um So, I will prefaces
by saying I love things that are bad. I do
not think this movie is bad. I think this movie
is great, and I think that it doesn't pass my
bad test, but it does come really goddamn close. Just

(05:12):
like everyone. Oh so, I have a really specific test
for what makes a good bad movie. First of all,
obviously it has to be bad. That's the first thing,
of course, obviously. Um Secondly, it has to be sincere.
It can't be like Snakes on the Plane, where they're like, oh,
we're gonna make a bad movie. It's like, no, the
people making it, even if it's intentionally campy, the people

(05:33):
making it have to care about what they are doing.
That there's a reason why Black Dynamite, while it is
obviously meant to be this like Pastiche, is also still
a really fun bad movie and not just like a
cynical we tried to make a bad movie. Um. And Third,
you've got to have spectacle. There has to be spectacle

(05:54):
of some kind, whether it's like you know, in the
case of show Girls, it's all of the dancing, or
whether it's a sci fi movie and there is good
or bad c g I or makeup or characters, or
whether you just have Tommy was So, which is spectacle
on his own. What's your favorite bad movie? Oh, gosh,
um the Last Dragon. Oh I've never seen that one.

(06:17):
Oh it's so good, good, it's good. Yeah, yeah, it's
um So. In the eighties, Barry Gordy decided that black
folks really like karate, so he decided to make a
movie which is not a musical wink wink, but is
filled with the music of motown in the eighties, which
is most of you know, no one was listening to

(06:39):
and there were some but not a whole bunch. And yeah,
it started a guy named Tie Mock one name um.
And it also started a Prince Protege and X Prince
Protegeania and Vanity Good. I want to watch this movie
really bad. Our next live show, we'll be covering last
bad movie really quick. Um. I have exquisite taste, so

(07:02):
I don't like any bad movies. No. Um, probably like
Spiceworld or something, So it's not a bad movie. Alan
Cummings in it. That doesn't count, right. I have a
tie between I Frankenstein and Jobs. The one with Ashton

(07:22):
Kutcher and Ashton Kutcher pretending like he's a character actor
is spectacle. It is. He was like, here's my nomination, guys,
it's me Cher. He's like, I'm a little too handsome,
you know, like that's kind of his thing. I'm in

(07:43):
a turtle Nick. That is kind of like My favorite
kind of bad biopic is when you feel like the
lead actor, even though they're technically not as are constantly
looking like, you know, this isn't me right, that's just
kind of funny. I'm I'm Ashton Kutcher, actual culture. Y'all
know I fucked right, Yeah, I don't know how I came.

(08:04):
I don't even know how to turn a computer on.
It's like, oh cool, okay, So sorry at the fifth element.
Sorry to derail this conversation, but so the fifth element.
You think it's a good, bad movie. Yes, and it's
one of your favorites. It's one of my favorites. It
is also one of my oma's favorites, which anytime my

(08:24):
Oma loves movie, I know it's bad. So it's awesome, Jamie.
What's your history? Uh? Well, as I've been critiqued and
praised for I saw it this morning. I have never
I had no history of this movie. I wasn't aware
it was a movie that was famous so much that
I pushed back. It is like, no one's seen that movie.
And I was informed that nearly everyone but me has

(08:45):
seen that movie and that I'm a dumbass. So I
saw it today. Great, but I enjoyed it. That's surprising
because it's not your genre. It's no, I'm not normally
a sci fi person, but I mean the outfits, the wigs.
You feel at any moment in this movie or like
someone could break into song given the aesthetic of the

(09:07):
movie and the vibe the actors are putting out, there
could be a musical number, but they're just simply isn't
It was a choice. Also one of my favorites. I
saw for the first time, I think in college. I
don't know if you know this, but I did go
to film school twice. Um, I do have a master's
green screenwriting from bost University. I would never bring it up,

(09:28):
but I do. Oh wow, no one likes the bits.
Thanks okay, thanks smattering, But yeah, I really enjoyed this
movie upon the rewatch, though it felt a little tedious.
Uh it's long. I don't remember being over two hours
half hours long. You know, it's like two hours and
six minutes. No, it's two and a half hours long. Really.

(09:52):
I watched it on daily motion dot com Galen, it's
two and a half hours up. Oh, you're pirated video names.
They're not sponsoring this. I simply didn't want to pay.
It's too old. If the movie came out before two five,
I won't pay to watch it. It should just be

(10:13):
free at that point. It should I'm just like, you
know what, you had your chance to get my money.
Why are we still paying for Chinatown? I paid for
Miss Congeniality recently, and I was furious because no, yeah
at daily motion dot com. So there's no excuses because
they you apparently watched like an extended cut because it's

(10:36):
because if you watch it on daily Motion, they have
to slow it down so it tricks the algorithm. So
you're probably watch one two hours and thirty six minutes long. Yeah,
so you're watching the version where oh we're Rudy rod
Is talking like a normal person. Oh no, no, it's
twenty extra minutes right there. Well, you know what, because

(10:57):
they're not our sponsor. Fuck daily dot com upload better
pirated files. Yeah, so it's long and it was a
little tedious. There's there's lots to talk about, and I'm
excited to do that. So without much further ado, I'll
do that recap that we're also fond of. Oh wow,

(11:22):
alright we open. It's nineteen fourteen in Egypt. What is
this The Mummy starring Brandon Fraser. Literally, yeah, there are
a lot of white guy archaeologists. I love how like
in any movie that opens like around World War One.
Everyone's like colonialism was awesome, right, They're just like looking
at all this cool stuff we found that no one's

(11:43):
seen before. Yeah, yeah, we stole it, but it was
for the greater good. Like it was just horrible. Uh.
And in this movie, they're like looking at some hieroglyphics
and they tell of this evil force that's going to
show up soon, but there's a weapon against it. The
were elements plus a fifth element there. I spent a
lot of this movie confused because I forgot that we

(12:06):
were talking about elements allah Avatard The Last Airbender and
not senses, where I was like, oh, like the movie
I turned it on, I was like, oh, taste probably
just a wild guess. But they're talking about elements and
that I don't know how many for example, earth, fire, wind,

(12:26):
and water, air and tastes, so there's actually six and
they're wrong. Okay, So those four elements plus taste plus
a fifth element will combine to make a weapon that
will fight against this impending evil. Uh. And then all
these aliens show up and they're like, we're taking these
these stones that represent each one of the elements, and

(12:47):
we say aliens, but their muppets that there's something the robots,
robot aliens they look like sarcopha guy that move. Yeah,
and they're like, hey, priests, that's here, make sure you
pass up down this information because like the evil stuff
is going to come in three hundred years and aliens

(13:07):
give so much exposition. They're like, remember three hundred years,
only priests could pass down and he's like, I will
do that, but it's supposed to be scary also, and
only the whitest Yes, yes, and then we got to
believe it or not three hundred years later. Okay, so

(13:30):
I read on the Wikipedia. Okay, my two favorite websites,
daiely motion dot com, Wikipedia dot com. Uh that it's
twenty two sixty three, Like it's over so it's not
an exact science, I guess, but there's uh yeah, so
in the future where the evil had been gathering and
it took it three years to get to the point

(13:51):
where it was scaring Zeus Tiny, the guy who played
the president. Yes, yes, so it's like far in the future,
are still patriarchy, but it's French now and and and
men wear sexy tank tops. That's the where the vibe
of this patriarchy and so this like ominous like planet

(14:14):
thing shows up. The President and the military try to
destroy it, but every time they do that, it just
gets like more evil, so they're like, oh no. And
also this was during a period We're having a black president.
Seemed very sci fi, right. What was the other was
a deep and deep impact another one where it was like,
we only get a black president when the world's about

(14:34):
to all ship. So then Father Cornelius shows up and
he's like, hey, this is the evil thing the priest.
It's not the same actor, but it may as well
be the same actor who's like, hey, that thing right,
except now it's Bilbo Baggins. Oh yeah, yeah, okay. So

(14:57):
then we meet Corbin Dallas at Bruce Willis's character to
be confused with Corbyn Blue for this, and the audience
who are like, wait a second, wait, what's up from
He's is this like a d calm Nickelodeon is adcom
thing there? Corbyn Blue was in the high School Musical

(15:17):
franchise to start, and then he went on to have
a successful career. He's great, He's in Beils just the
musical in Washington, d C. Right now. So that is
something that I found out on purpose. I like to
keep up with him. Okay, So Corbyn Dallas. He is
a cab driver in New York City. Ever heard of it?

(15:40):
And its future? So air cars. Yeah, he's ex military,
because Bruce Willis can't play someone who's not either a
cop or in the military. Uh. He's a tough guy,
but he's got a cat to um. Now would be
a good time to bring up the fact that cats

(16:01):
do have eight nipples and uh, that's cat facts with Caitlin, okay. Uh.
And the whole his whole thing is he's looking for
the perfect woman. The word perfect is invoked so many
times in reference to like, you know, five nine blue eyes,
good skin, perfect and you're like, it's so many times

(16:24):
the word perfect is used in reference to someone who
is being exploited by the governments. I'm a weapon from there,
it's bad. Okay. So then the Mondo shoot shoeing. Those
are the aliens from the beginning of the movie. Literally

(16:44):
every alien in every universe sounds like someone who was
pretending like they know how to speak Japanese. But it's fine. Yeah,
so they show up, They're like, we're here to help.
We've got those stones. But then the stones. The stones
bother me. It is like what if we had five
Chekhov's guns, like the Holy Like the whole plot use

(17:08):
of the stones is like every at some point in
the middle of the movie, all of a sudden, it's
all about the stones, and every main character, every other
line to be like the stones. Where are the stones? Okay,
so they're like here, we're here to help. But the
their ship crashes because some bad aliens show up and
shoot it down. But there's a lone survivor, a k

(17:31):
It's like, she's a hand. Yeah, it's a hand which
is comprised of like very highly advanced genetic material. Um.
So some engineers show up, some perverts in New York
bring her back to life. No women in stem in
in that No, just perverts and stuff bring her back
to life. And it turns out she's a sexy lady

(17:53):
parentheses a nude. Yes, and they're like, oh god, she's perfect.
And then the word perfect is invoked no less than
four times in that scene. Yes, and then like put
bandages on her, and then the bandages form a sexy leotard.
That's how bandages work. No, the bandages in the future

(18:15):
not only are not used to protect against injury that
doesn't exist. Um, they also just magically form around your
body and snap off and never come around your little butt.
And then there I was like, oh, these are bandages
that like follow the Instagram policy. Is how conveniens in

(18:36):
they're like bondages like and then she was strapped the
bed and then when she got up, it was like,
I guess you were sexy or more perfect when you
were strapped with this bed. And then they become like her,
and then they're like, I guess we better become a
leotard that will become you know, the choice of like
the girl who's unlike the other girls at all college

(18:57):
Halloween parties until Kingdom fucking come. So then she escapes
from this lab and she ends up in the back
seat of our friend Corbin Dallas's cab, not Corbon Blue,
not Corby. Again, I can't say it enough. He was
a baby. So because she's so perfect and because he

(19:19):
thinks she's hot, he helps her escape from the cops
and he takes her to Father Courtnelius and he's like, oh, ship,
this is the fifth element. She's perfect. It's taste. We
can we can tell because she's white right, yes, uh,

(19:42):
and we learned her name is is Leulu. And then
the priest is like, get out of here, Bruce Willis.
And then Chris Wallis is like, but my tanked up
and the phrase is like I respect her tank tub.
It's very good, but leave. It has like a cut
out of the back, cut in the back. It's really
a cute It's I was telling Danielle and I think

(20:03):
it's like a tank top that I would wear today. Yeah,
it feels like, um, it was meant to show off
how hot nineties Bruce Willis still was, you know, back
when he cared about acting um, because some people that's
like body is hot. It just like, ah, you're still
you're You're still doing this because you like it. And
but it is one of those things where it's like
I feel like that is the outfit they would give

(20:25):
to a woman now to be like, see we're relevant.
She doesn't just have to wear two band aids, like
she could definitely wear this tank top outfit and go
after aperture. Yeah, there are a lot of Zara in
spo from from these outfits. This is like a fun
period for Bruce Willis where he's like famous enough that

(20:46):
he's like, you know, I'm just gonna try. So I'm
gonna play the same character without doubt every single time. However,
maybe I'll wear a tank top and we're like, you
know what's good for you? Yeah, maybe I'll be Bruce
Willis in space this time. No one's ready for that, Like, Okay,
we've mastered Bruce Willis on Earth. Where do we go

(21:08):
tank top? Bruce Willis in space? Play a harmonica in space?
Does it? We've got to ask him? Okay. So then
they're like, where are the stones that are supposed to Prestone?
And Leelu is like, oh, we gave them to this
diva who sings opera. Let's go to that place which

(21:30):
is called flots and Paradise. But then also there's this
bad guys Orgue played by Gary Oldman Boo, who is
also trying to get the stones because the new his wife.
I think if we're talking about Gary Oldman getting the stones,
we have to say the stones, oh right, right right, yeah,

(21:52):
that is how he sounds see and then also light
that man on fire. Yeah, for those who aren't in
the know, he beat his wife and he sucks anyway
to those late to the Gary Oldman is canceled. Train
He's been canceled. Yes. So then because Corbyn Dallas is
like a good thing, I'm ex military, this general comes around.

(22:15):
He's like, hey, we need you to go to flats
in Paradise to protect the diva. Is that what the
mission is? I don't think because plot right. So he's like, okay,
I'll go there. And then so everyone's trying to get
to flats in Paradise. Now, so the priest is there,
is there, Corbyn Dallas is there, the bad guys are there.

(22:35):
Turns out those stones that we've all been looking for, uh,
they are inside of the big tall blue woman, because
that's what we went to far, carrying important things inside
of us dying. And then Bruce Willis is smart enough
to be like, let me punch this dead woman, therefore

(22:57):
launching us into the third act of a movie. And
we're like, yeah, he punches a dead woman in her stomach,
puncturing her flesh and winds and we did it. We yea.
So now the good guys have the stones and the
bad guys are trying to get them. So there's a

(23:18):
there's a fight, and then they go to Egypt and
that big like evil ball is like looming towards Earth.
So they go to Egypt Stones and then they go
to this tomb that we saw in the beginning of
the movie, and they're like, oh, how do we do this?
And then they figured out they like gift to blow

(23:39):
on the stones and set them on fire, you know,
the corresponding elements, and then it saves the day. The
stones are so stupid there, it's like, yeah, it's like
the guns. Another draft of the script, we could cut
the stones. I think. I think the stones are a
sensi candle, you know, interesting like I don't know if

(24:00):
your college or high school um friends to hit you
up yet to try to sell you on multi level
marketing schemes where it's like, well, look, our candles don't
need fire, or some of them do. But some of
them you can put in a heating element, and then
some of them you can blow on, and then some
of them you need a girl to remember what love is.

(24:23):
I feel like that's killen, Caitlin. I have to ask
consent for something. Please, can we take a break? I
grant you permission and consent to take a break. A
very progressive transition to advertise the whole thing with this

(24:47):
movie is it's like, okay, so we've got a woman
as christ figure. The twist is she doesn't get to
do fucking anything and she needs a head or a
white love to create taste or something. Yeah, I'm not
totally sure. Now that's pretty much it. Yeah, but it

(25:09):
ends with like they kiss a beam of light for
their boring love right explodes out from them, and then
it cuts forward to like the president being like cool,
good that happened, and then he calls Bruce Willis his mom,
who's like a very stereotypically like naggy mom, and she's like, Mayor,

(25:33):
the president sucks. And then the President's like, what the heck?
And then we got to Bruce Willis fucking, and then
the movie's over. You're like, we can't end the movie with.
I feel like that's like a contractual thing for person Willis.
He's like, I have to be fucking on screen or

(25:53):
I won't do it. I don't care how out of
plot it seems. I feel like he doesn't suck that
much in movies. Really. Yeah. I feel like it's more
of like the threat that he will fuck. It's like
we know that the intent is that he's so sexy
that he will be fucked. He and Alan Rickman don't

(26:14):
fuck in that movie. Maybe I'm watching the Rung movie.
If you're watching him on dailymotion dot com, who knows what. Really,
it would be really funny if I was just watching
the porn version of the movie. I think, like, yeah,
really not fair to women. But yeah, so we do

(26:35):
see him sucking this movie, and that was the ending
really through me. I did not see the president Naggie
mom fucking three punch in a row. Well, they're also
they're so they're fucking in the like rejuvenation chamber or
whatever it is they call it, Like they're in the
chamber where she was born. That's fucking weird. Oh yeah,

(26:56):
it's like her mom. Yeah, whoa, but like that's where
that's where she became a person. And it's great because
she still isn't quite one yet, so you can just
take her back there and just great transition into one
of the main talking points for this movie and part
of the reason that we had it like on our

(27:16):
radar of stuff we wanted to cover in the first place. Yes,
and that of course is the born sexy Yesterday trope.
If you're not familiar. This is a trope that was
the name was coined by Jonathan McIntosh on his one
of his pop culture detective video essays. But it basically
describes a trope that's like very common in sci fi especially,

(27:36):
and it's characterized by an adult woman being physically immature
and sexual, but she has the brain and naivete of
a baby. And part of the funny thing about this
trope is it is rooted in per that video, and

(27:57):
the read of most people is like, is it's very
much rooted in male insecurity. That is like they can't
hack it with women who have lived any manner of life,
and so they're like, what if it's a body I
want to funk, but someone who doesn't know anything and
has never met anyone, I would look great to someone

(28:18):
who doesn't know anyone. And what if my dick was
the first dick she saw exactly? Like what if I
had a like it? It is very sinister and like
deeply rooted and the way it is, but describing it
is very silly. There's like a lot of examples, and
some of them are given by McIntosh, but there are

(28:39):
examples of reverses of this trope. But the way it
is treated by the movie is very silly, Like the
like Big is a great example of like, uh baby
brain and a grown man's body. But the man in
that movie is not sexualized in a deep way. Most
of the stuff he's doing is played for laughs and

(29:00):
played for like, isn't this ridiculous? Blah blah blah, And
so it is. As much as you get the argument
that it's played for men and women in movies, the
way it's treated by the camera and by the plot
is always very different, and it's certainly I would say
more common for the born sex yesterday character to be
a woman in most cases. Yeah, I mean it's like

(29:22):
not like the men. They're like, we've got to see
his dick, Like there's but like in this, in this
first shot evanlue Lou, we see her completely new, a
very like gratuitous nude shot of her. And yeah, like
you were saying, it's problematic, got a number of levels.
One because this character usually ends up being the love
interest of the male hero because it's like the first

(29:43):
man she ever meet. She was like, well, I don't
know anyone else, so you're the one. That's why we
all have And it Yeah, it's like this unequal power dynamic.
Like you said, it's like based on male and securities
and like the fear of being inadequate both intellectually and sexually.
And also I think you know, it's where well actually

(30:05):
comes from. It's like a way to manifest man splaining totally.
I get to explain everything to her, Yeah, and then
she gonna fuck right because he usually and these stories
ends up like teaching her everything about the world and
including sex. So yeah, it basically allows them to fulfill
this fantasy where it's like I'm the awesomest guy you've

(30:26):
ever seen, and here's everything I know. Yeah, it's like
this creepy flattening of sexy professor. Yes, yes, we're like
tricky because it's like we're not even saying that characters
shouldn't be able to learn from each other regardless of gender,
but it's so unequal that it's like, oh, this person
doesn't know how to eat, like she didn't don't date them,

(30:49):
You don't know what a spoon is, you know, or
like you don't know how flatwear works, or like Lulu
doesn't know how showers work, and that is something that
he's like, oh my God, your nipples, Like you're just like, no,
that's not what is the focus? That doesn't make sense.
It's a very frustrating trope. And it's it is so

(31:12):
extremely common. I mean it comes up in movies even now,
like it was coming up in Tron and then what
then is the movie where Oscar isaacs a hot scientist.
Oh x mocks another one. I mean, if you can,
it can be argued. It comes up in Wonder Woman
quite a bit. We talked about what he does, and
it's it's frustrating because another thing about that trope, to

(31:32):
sort of neutralize it a little bit, is that very
often the woman has like a skill or two that
is impressive to the man, which is usually that she
can sort of fight, she can't be creepy, she kicks high.
You're like, well, a baby can't do that, so I

(31:54):
can have sex with her, Like you're just like the
last time you saw a baby shoot a gun? Oh,
I think it's like fair that we are married. Like, no,
it is a very it's a very complex trope, like
like the guys are trying to get you in every
corner of like, well, babies don't shoe guns, And I
could suck a baby if it was Oh, lady, she

(32:16):
needs help bathing, but like she could beat me up,
so it's fine. She remember that scene yet we're dating. Well,
that leads me to another thing I wanted to talk about,
where so her whole thing is that she's the supreme being.
She's the fifth element, like the thing that's needed to
like save the world from this like catastrophic event, and
she has the ability to like absorb all the information

(32:40):
in the world in a matter of second. She learns
very very quickly, which is which sounds cool but ultimately
doesn't serve the plot very much. But it serves the
fucking Bruce Willis parts of the plot well. But you
would think if she knew the history of the world,
she would know not to trust Bruce Willis, Like, yeah,
conveniently misses out on patriarchy, while through all of the

(33:03):
wars she finds out about patriarchy, and literally the last
second she's like, oh no, what is this? But then
she's she learns about war and patriarchy in the third act,
and then you see her like she's like and she's
crying and she's gonna wait. She's literally been kicking people
in the face because they were trying to get to

(33:24):
another woman. Yeah, she's she's been engaging in war and
she's like, what's war? Like, Oh no, it's bad. And
then she learns about war and patriarchy. But her solution
to that is Bruce willis fuck me, Like, that's not
the solution to that, kissed me on the stone. Oh

(33:50):
now you're all thinking of her with his head. But
she has this like uncanny ability to like learned everything
and be the smartest person ever really, but the only
thing that he appreciates her for is how she looks.
And this is a common thing that happens by a
number of characters were out there, Like they talk about
her as if she's an object. They call her a possession,

(34:12):
they call her like they keep talking about how perfect
she is. She's spoken about as if she's an item
for the whole movie and even and even when she
does learn, it's that thing of like, well, she learns,
but she doesn't have emotional intelligence. So she has book
learning and she gets things, but she doesn't like she
still isn't capable. She's a computer. Basically, she's a computer

(34:35):
that corporate DALYs is like, oh yeah, like five nine
and that. You know, the further we get from weird science,
the more that I'm like that chick was right punch
those nerds in the face or however that right kill
them boy? That movie O God, Yeah, the Bruce will
Is tank top I would like to just bring up

(34:56):
again good Yeah. I just think it's dumb that she
has ability to learn like an infinite amount of knowledge,
but he was only impressed by how attractive she is. Well,
the thing that they're trying to do. I mean, this
movie is all over the place, and I think part
of the reason it is as I did some research
on the origin of where this movie came from, and

(35:17):
it's partially built from a treatment or a short story
that director wrote when he was a teenager. And so
if you saw this movie and you're like, seems like
a horny French boys fantasy, you're exactly right, Like what
if a horny French boy had millions of dollars? This
movie answers that question. And best um has always been like,

(35:40):
you know, he was a big and and you got
to see a lot of what he based that on
in Valerian, which no one watched who just really weirdly
saw that. Sorry, Yeah, did you like it? No, Yeah,
because it's another one where it's like this time, instead
of plucking a woman out of time and making her
the perfect woman, they pluck a woman out of time

(36:02):
and she's still in this series, which is based on
this old French like newspaper Cereal. It's like their version
of Valiant or whatever, which is another thing that none
of us here watched or read in the cartoon section.
It was the one that you skipped and um or
you put dicks on and like me and so in
that series, the dude from the future, like they're also

(36:23):
time travelers, he goes back and he grabs this peasant
woman from I want to say the seventeen or eighteenth century. Um.
And so again it's that thing of like, oh, you're
so pretty and so you know you're of these values,
but I still have to teach you about this modern world, right,
And that's where like so much of what the Fifth
Element became was based on this. And I think you

(36:45):
had a great point about Wonder Woman too, of like
I'm thinking men to our Wonder Woman episode where that
was something we didn't pick up on at the time
of like even a year of like, yeah, the male lead,
and that would be one of the christ Is. I
don't fucking know which time had to He's the one
who just showed off as Pinus in that movie on Netflix.
Is that the one? I honestly, I have Chris blindness.

(37:07):
I can't tell any of them apart. I don't know.
There's too many, but there there it's a frustrating trope
and and it so it was like built from his
like something he wanted to do since he was a teenager.
It seems like very little edits were made from his
little horny story. So that's just a fact. Another thing

(37:29):
I wanted to bring up. I mean, so, she is
one of very few female characters in the movie. She's
the only one that is like a primary character. There
are quite a few women with speaking roles in the movie,
but they're mostly in like tertiary roles, and they're usually
in like service, like a lot of secretaries attendants, someone

(37:51):
who gets super super banged by Yeah. Yeah, wof. There's
a lot to unpack there there. I think it's interesting
that they it's it's weird because I feel like what
frustrated me about this movie, even though I ultimately did
like it, is that this movie contradicts itself in so
many ways where it's trying to have it so many
ways where it's like with Lulu, you're given basically a

(38:15):
female christ Like figure, but she doesn't get to do
any of the cool stuff that comes with being a
christ Like figure, like you've got if you were talking
movie christ like figures, you know, you've got your fucking
Luke Skywalkers, you got your Harry Potters, you got your
Jesus Christ, you got you got like and and the
thing about Christ figure is, at some point you get

(38:38):
to not be a baby and do something, and she
doesn't get to do that. Yeah, it comes with a
leadership role, right at a certain point. You know, you
look at a Buffy and the thing about if you
look at a Buffy, she kicks a lot of asks
and she's a young girl. But part of being the
Slater and then obviously there's problems with that series too,
a part of being the Slayers it comes with a
natural leadership ability. Typically when it Dude, even if he

(39:01):
discovers two days ago that he can maybe use the
forest kind of if he squints, he suddenly becomes someone
very important to the rebellion and and not just because
you know, he can kind of maybe do a thing,
but because they respect him for his brain, for his mind,
and he suddenly becomes a leader of people. And with
the born sexy babies, they get to get past the

(39:23):
baby face. She even wonder child, Yeah, like even wonder woman.
She does become kind of a leader, but even then
it's mostly when it's her and the Pine separated and
he's like, oh, I've seen what she's doing, and so
I'll go ahead and let her do it. But like
as far as being a tactician or a military leader
or someone who has the respect of folks, Lelu never

(39:45):
gets that, and she could murder all of them. And
then she like passed respect more you should respect and
angry baby even more, and she kind of conveniently tends
to fall lamp or pass out when it would be
convenient end for Bruce Willis's character to suddenly be useful.
It's like Jean Graham the X Meen cartoon. Yes, yeah,

(40:06):
so there is a sequence when they're on the Flotsam
Jetsam place and then they're like, I was like, what
is that from? Okay, the Paradise Hotel, which is basically
Titanic I think we can all agree. Um, they just
evacuate and it does not work out. But there's a
sequence where Lee Lu is like single handedly fighting a

(40:29):
bunch of the bad aliens and then we're like, Okay, great,
I guess she can fight because she looked up. It's
basically that same sequence from The Matrix when she's like,
I know kung fu, and then she even does this
motion with her hand. But this movie came before the
Matrix is probably a reference to something else anyway. So
she's like fighting off all these bad guys and then

(40:51):
for no reason, she like starts to die, Like she
becomes completely damseled and like it's just slam and don't
do anything for the whole Third is Bruce Willis kisses,
loves kiss at the end of the day, so it's
true love's fucking kiss Like that's all it does. It

(41:11):
he's speaking of kisses. Let's talk about the surprise kiss
that happens. Okay, So this one, here's how it goes.
Uh Leelu is sleeping, repeat, unconscious, not conscious, cannot tell
what's going on. Bruce Willis tries to kiss her in
the tank top of all tops, and then she holds

(41:34):
a gun to his head, and he's like, you're right,
I shouldn't have done that. I shouldn't have tried to
kiss you. But he's only saying that because there's a
gun to his head. Life, and then she says something
in her like divine language, and then his defenses. He said,
to wake you gently, and I thought you would remember
me from the cab as if you know, have you

(41:56):
ever wanted someone you met in a cab to kiss
you while you're sleeping? It's like up someone was like, oh,
I'm sorry I molested you, but remember me from the
uber pool, so and get away from me. Man, When
that that whole kissing someone while they're sleeping thing was
so prevalent that when I was a kid, I would
think it was cute to run up on my parents

(42:17):
and kiss him on this cheek while they were sleeping.
And it took me three times to realize that's fucking terrifying.
And it ends with adults screaming yeah, and that rings
true till today that's so and then okay. So then
he condescends to her and he's like, call me when

(42:39):
you can speak English. JK. But really, dick, she speaks
like eighty languages. Sorry, she didn't get to English, and
then later he's like, oh, what was that thing that
she said? And then the priest translates it to never
without my permission. So in this case of the surprise
kiss in this movie, at least consent is acknowledged, and

(43:02):
she does hold a gun to his head for trying
to surprise kiss him, but he is not punished at all,
really because then he ends up getting to kiss her
later for reasons that don't make sense. But you know,
when you have a man and a woman in a
story together, they better kiss on each other at the end.
So that's just a world to say, a universe and

(43:25):
some shows is he like makes it even more frustrating
for me though, when it's like the movie demonstrates, yeah,
we know what consented, we know how it works, we
just don't care. Like that's like even more frustrating when
I mean, it's frustrating and unacceptable across the board. But
you've got a somewhat different situation when you've got, for instance,

(43:48):
Brendan Fraser My King the Mummy surprise kissing in the
Mummy and it's never commented on, and the way that
movie positions it is that they don't know what they're doing,
like they're stupid. Well, in that movie, he surprised kisses
Rachel White's and then she's like and then she falls
and you're like, all this movie is for idiots, Okay,

(44:10):
got it, but this movie is like, no, not without
my permission. And then you're like, oh, cool, we're on
the right track, and they're like just getting we're not.
We're gonna keep getting this woman naked and the movie
won't like the world will end unless she gets like
kissed by this guy who molested her at the beginning
of the movie. Awesome, and I wanted to talk more

(44:31):
about that, the way that just the wardrobe of this movie,
the way women are dressed. It's with Leelu especially. We
already talked about the straps at somehow magically become like
a bathe and it doesn't get better and movie goes on.
It's like turns into it differently at aar but this
one sort of has sleeves. Yeah, and it's it's matching
though Bruce's orange tank tops, so they matched. Yeah, that's great. Um,

(44:55):
but yeah, we see her nipples I think no less
than three times in the movie. She's alway. It's because
she doesn't understand social norms, so that gives her permission
to just be like, oh naked, and like even the
Blue Singing Lady is wearing a dress that looks like
she's naked, right, Like she's wearing a flesh colored for
her dress. But don't worry, that scene ends with her

(45:15):
dying and getting punched in the stomach. We're not Mexo sexualizer.
She's meant to be our mom there. It's like she's
sexy until she's dead and then she's mommy, and you're like,
what is this fucking movie? But then the women who
are like you know, the flight attendants and things like that,

(45:37):
they're wearing these like very scant uniforms where oh yeah, yeah,
it's the party plane, like that's what it is, right,
Like it looks like remember in Iron Man when all
of a sudden, all the stewardesses are on the pole,
but in the beginning, they like pretend like they're not
going to be on a pole and they're gonna be
just flight attendants as the first Iron Man. Oh my god,

(45:59):
I haven't seen that. Oh yeah, so that it's a
terrible scene and it's meant to be part of why
Tony Stark sucks. It's meant to be part of why
Tony Stark socks. But in this movie, all of the
women are are dressed like the Halloween version of a
flight attendant. Yeah, patriarchy is alive and well in Yes. Yeah.

(46:20):
The way that she's dressed throughout the movie, through the
very end is like she starts nude, she ends nude,
and in between there's a series of scantily clad outfits
always and and the way she's filmed it's always very
I mean fully male gaze. There's no commentary being made
at all. And on that note, let's take a quick break.

(46:43):
What do you say sounds good? All right? Can we
talk about Ruby Road? We better queer icon, pans axual icon,
pantecrobably possible. I do find it interesting that this feels
like they're trying to have it both ways, where they're like,

(47:05):
we're gonna have a dude who is hyper sexual, turns
on all the ladies all of this stuff, but in
order to make sure that he is not more sexy
or sexual than our lead, we have to give him
parts that are feminine. It is like a very nineties
way of looking at that I hear a lot of

(47:25):
homes in the audience. This is the thing I've thought
about as another pan sexual, like on, um, you can't
close your legs. So yeah, it is interesting because obviously,
like he does have a feminine moments, but he is
also like banging down stewardesses in weird ways, maybe more coercy,
not super consensually ways. Yeah, with which we'll talk about.

(47:48):
But it's also yeah, so they wanted clearly to make
this character that's like super sexy. Everyone wants to be
with him, but how do we make him not a
threat for our hero for the love of our baby woman. Right,
He's also basically doing a podcast the whole thing. He's like,
he's like talking into a mic. He's like like where

(48:10):
the show is or where I was paying broadcast. It's
like this could be anyone in Los Angeles. It's on
iTunes cast for mattresses, but it was Blue Apron delivered
uh fifty pounds of seafood onto my doorstep the other day,
but yeah, so I don't know why they did. Yeah,

(48:33):
he's got this like entourage of like men who were
like all kind of queer coded. He's coming, coming, man coming,
and it's also a way to like slide in some
black people that weren't um, you know, house musicians in
the nineties in England, which is what basically all the
other black people are where either English models or English rappers.

(48:55):
A lot of it's very European. A lot of this movie. Really,
it is a tricky character. I feel like it very
like very much falls under the umbrella that we come
up with nineties movies all the time, which is like
kind of like what you're saying, Daniel is like a
movie trying to have it both ways. It's like, oh,
this is some manner or impression of queer representation, but

(49:19):
don't worry. There's still very bad to women, and like, yes,
it's a manner of queer representation, but don't worry. Technically
if you wrote them out of the script, the movie
would be no different. They really don't push the story
forward in any way. It's sort of queer representation, but
also they constantly are needing the straight male white lead
to bail them out, and so it just feels like

(49:42):
it it is a step in some ways, but also
I don't know, it was frustrating. It's like you you
want that character who is like so funny and so
like well played to have more of a narrative impact.
It feels like someone loo black wife realize that a
lot of the black people in the movie don't actually

(50:03):
get to be people. It was like, maybe we should
make one of the black people of purple and not
make them an alien or paint them blue or like
do whatever, Like maybe there should be one person that's
clearly black. Yeah, it's like it's it's so frustrating because
it's so well played and the character and it's funny

(50:26):
and the fits are incredible. I don't know, I just
wish that it's it's very frustrating me when movies incorporate
any marginalized group in a way that doesn't progress the narrative,
because then it just sort of reads as to some extent,
kind of like gratuitous, as like they were just doing it,
like oh, I'll just do this, but it won't actually
make a difference. Yeah, that's what like when when the

(50:49):
groups of the gates of the people, when they complain
about this is just to please the s JW's, It's like, no,
because we actually want our characters to mean something. This
is because they want to at all four or five
quadrants that has nothing to do with us, and that's
what this was. Yeah, although again I mean I do that.
It's a great character and I love him, but yeah,
he can very easily not at all be in the movie.

(51:13):
I just like if he had even it would be
so easy to write out like he doesn't know how
to defend himself in any way, or like if if
he had a skill that could forward the group, which
would help the story because it would make them seem
like more of a group and not just sort of
a group of people who are co dependent on Bruce Willis,

(51:33):
then that would have been great and it would have
been such an easy fix that would have made the
story better. And it's like, if you just unpassed out
Leelu and gave Ruby Road a skill, the movie is better.
So why not do that? Oh yeah, well could and
Ruby Rod essentially became the damsel during that escape scene, right,

(51:58):
I'm gonna give to run. It is iconic, but y
god damn it. A couple of things I wanted to mention.
Jamie already touched on this, but Corbyn's mom so we
never meet her on screen. Corbin's mom is the just
no mother in law subreddit made into a person. That's

(52:21):
a joke for the people who got it. There's a
sepright on reddit which is just people bitching about their
mothers and laws, which becomes very clear that it's just
people writing fan fiction where they get to call women bitches. Oh,
very cool. Love that's pretty tight. But so Corbyn's mom,
we never meet her on screen, but we hear her

(52:41):
voice quite a bit because he's she's always calling nagging
leaven messages. Man, women, you go from being a hot
baby to being a nagging mom in two seconds, right,
And this is how a lot of moms are portrayed
in movies, where it's like I'm gonna let that pass. Uh,
this is a restaurant, but this is not a lot

(53:03):
of women are A lot of mothers are portrayed in
movies where it's like a nagging, overbearing like can't let
go of her baby boy, and like often played as
like comic relief, like someone to not be taken seriously
because he's always like brushing her off and it's just
like a commonly known as like bad writing. Yeah, that
is exactly what that. There's no in between. There's very

(53:25):
I mean now We're getting to a point where you
get competent women, but very often it is like you
were either a sexy person I want a sex who
also kicks other people sexily, or you are this nagging,
horrible Oh why should I have to clean my room? Mom?
Why do I have to take my diarrhea medication? Now?

(53:46):
I'm all right, man, And that's real. You can look
at and you never you never see her, right, we
never formally meet her. She's strictly playing off screen for
laughs with Bruce Willis and then later with the President.
She's like, I don't believe you're the president. The President

(54:09):
sucks cut to Bruce Willis. Fucking end of movie. A
great last hilarious. Another female character who's introduced, who is
like kind of played as a joke is her name
is Major ice Borg, another Titanic reference. Obviously that is
the official they're like, Sir Major ice Borg. But she

(54:36):
comes in in the scene where the general is like, hey, Corbin,
we need you to like go on this secret mission
even though you are retired from the military, but do
this anyway. So she comes in and basically she would
not probably be considered attractive by Western ideal like beauty standards,
and then they're like, she's gonna play your wife, Corbin

(54:59):
in your won this trip and he takes one look
at her and he's like, I am not going is
if Like she's not beautiful traditionally, so therefore she is disgusting,
and uh, it's just like play not worth being around
for three fucking seconds. Yeah, it's so frot like. They're
also like, per this movie, you don't see women for

(55:22):
canonically three centuries, and then when you get to women finally,
it's like, oh, it's only actually naked white ladies that
we see and everything else is gross to us. So sorry,
and that's just the movie. Yeah, look, I either want
the perfect woman who you made out of a hand

(55:43):
or nothing at all. Not this incredibly like that woman
could have had his back, could have shot some folks up.
We don't know how long she's been in the academy.
She had probably been working with She's a major. You
know how long it takes to be a fucking major.
She had been to be a major for years, and
this dude looks at her and goes like, oh, your hips,

(56:05):
and it's suddenly like I'm gonna do this mission alone.
I've been retired forever, but I know I'm better than
you with That's part of where I feel like this
movie ultimately, for even though you see it and aesthetically
it doesn't look like a very conservative movie, but ultimately
I feel like the story does play very conservative because
you're given these characters who on the written page seem

(56:30):
like it's on the right track of like we've got
our female christ figure and we've got a queer reading
character who is present for much of the movie. But
ultimately they are both deeply reliant and the plots deeply
reliant on kind of your average white you know, ex military,
blue collar straight guy, and that that the Bruce Willis character.

(56:54):
And so I I just it seems like such a
coppa for it's a job high con that movie that
could be doing so much more to ultimately tease you
and pull in viewers with like, Hi, this is something
you want to see in movies, like you want to
see women, you want to see queer people, you want
to see people of color. But ultimately it's the same thing,

(57:15):
and the movie won't end unless the norm takes place,
and so it's just like it's frustrating because it's for
so much of it. I'm on board, but the way
it plays out, you're like, funk, you hit all this stuff.
Why didn't you? Like it's pretty and weird and French
and unorthodox. But then at the end they're still like
penises in janus right right, like it's ending a beam

(57:38):
of light. Sure, oh my god, were they the first
Never they did a reverse sky beam? Never mind, they
didn't do the sky beam going down. They did the
sky beam coming up. They didn't from her mouth because
that's where love comes from, you know, the love hole.
So frustrating, Yeah, to thinks that were like the diva

(57:58):
character is like, she needs your help and she needs
your love, and it's like, does she she's a weapon,
she's a nuke? Do you have to make out with
this new right? Like I guess they're trying to humanize
her in that moment, but it's to fringe this bomb
like and he's like, I'll do It's like, man, you
know what humanizing her would do more than having other

(58:19):
people tell you that is make her a person. Yeah,
that's if you wrote her as a person, Because all
of those are words on a page, and you can
change any of those any second, and you can tell
that whole sequence where like the diva's singing opera and
then we cut back to Lee Lu fighting. You can
tell that everyone involved in the movie is like, oh
my god, feminism, we get it. It's just like guys

(58:44):
are like high fiving and patting themselves on their back, like,
oh m G seven, we did it, and it's like, no,
you're hot. You a woman kicked one time and within
minutes at this sequence ending, one will die and you'll
have ruce waves punched through her flesh. You did you
do it? To be fair, she already had a bullet

(59:05):
hole and he just reaches into it. But Fairy reaches
in my bullet hole. Daddy, get the stones, daddy. That's
what I always said. That's like, where are the stone sounds?
They're in my daddy. He's like in her? What could
that possibly mean? Does that mean they're in her? Oh?

(59:32):
It does? So I think it bears. It bears telling
that during this moment, which is I think one of
the only moments where there's cut screens where two women
are both doing equal They're both doing the most impossible
thing you've ever seen in the world. And that's the
only time they showed to me and then Bruce will
hast seen punching a woman, which is not even the

(59:53):
only time Bruce Willis has done that on screen, so
you know, he just like he's like, oh the Stones,
I got the and then everyone's like, whoop, sorry about
your deadpop. Yeah, then r I p Diva Bruce changes
into and regretfully, I honestly lost a lot of interest
once he took off the tank top. I really liked it.

(01:00:16):
Oh God, well, is there anything anything anyone else wants
to talk about? Um? Let's see, uh consent? Did we
have Ruby Rod? Um? I think Ruby Road. I apologize.
It's fine because I keep doing like he keeps doing
like funny weird things with his accent to be like, yeah,

(01:00:40):
I think I heard it that way the first time,
and then I was like, okay, sounds good. But then
Ruby Rod, You're like, oh, Penis got it. I get
it because his dick get it. Because of Dick. Uh
that was everything I had. It's weird because it's like, ultimately,
I even on first viewing, enjoyed this movie and it
is so like aesthetically fun and it moves so quickly

(01:01:05):
and it's on daily motion dot com. I mean, what
Mark could you want in a movie, but there are
so many, Like I think it's a as the classic
cas of like a nineties movie, trying to have it
every which way but ultimately playing to the norm. Yeah, exactly,
because you know in the end, wasn't it Ruby Rod
who fucked up opening the Stones? It's coming? He doesn't

(01:01:28):
have fire. Yeah, he's like, I quit smoking, even though
the day before we see him smoking a cigarette. Let's
be real that Mike, that Mike is half my calf
vape new reboot where we blow vape smoke on the stones,
coolest stones ever. Man. We touched on us a little bit.

(01:01:52):
But like Corbin spends the whole movie condescending to the
woman he's in love with, and we'll end up with
at the in the love story makes no fucking it really,
it doesn't need to be there. She even says like love,
I don't know love, and he's like, I'm gonna put
my face on you again, and it's like, bitch, that's
not love. Like you just like remember when I molested you.

(01:02:13):
Let's give it a second shot, and this time it works.
I guess his horrible because she's so tired. Yes, she's
just this movie has beaten her down again or a
diet because she's had to like bear the like emotional
labor of like learning what war is and like being

(01:02:36):
the supreme being is like her Urkle where he's like,
I'm wearing you down, I'm wearing you down, But then
he does, and that's how the movie ends. And then
where her watching war and be like reminded me of
fifty First Days when you're barrymore Hustle learned his two
thousand and five every day and she's like, oh, no,

(01:02:59):
I don't know. Is a negress governor? Like that was
kind of what it reminded me of. But yeah, like
I feel like the thing he's always like patronizing her
and condescending to her based on her she doesn't have
a great grasp of the English language yet, even though
she's had a day to learn it and is doing
a pretty good job with what she's got. What she
knows and what she doesn't know is very plot convenient.

(01:03:21):
She's supposed to know everything, but she doesn't know anything
that Bruce Willis can teach her, right, But then like
someone they're like trying to check into the Flying Titanic,
He's like, yes, they know what a fucking multi passes
and like, yeah, it's just like a movie pass And
I was like, yeah, he's like really mean to her
and then she's like, but let's kiss. So yeah, this

(01:03:43):
movie is weird. That's my last comment. So it was weird.
I don't know. If you still like it, that's fine. Yeah.
Should we take some questions or comments from the audience?
Does anyone have anything they want to share, A question,
a comment they like to share. I guess someone yes,
Oh yeah, coming up. I just thought it was funny

(01:04:04):
that this is a movie very similar to Blade Runner
and also very similar in the sense that straight white
men love to try to explain it to you and, um,
help you understand why it's so good, but you don't
get it. Man tears in the rain. He improved that
scene we had someone else. Are you gonna come up?

(01:04:27):
What's your name? Um? My name is Ben real quick? Um,
So I noticed I just remembered that in Valerian, actually
there is another um. Both in this movie end in Valeria,
and there's a scene where a woman does a big
song number in Valarious Rihanna and then does something to
help out the hero and then immediately dies to advance

(01:04:48):
the plot. So my question is, does Luke Bissan hate
female singers? Um? I think it was another thing where
Luc Bisson's black wife was like just something for me,
just Rihanna or like something. But even in that one,
she's like a comfort woman, a woman of the night,

(01:05:08):
and performing in all of those things is is how
she attracts people, as though being Rihanna was somehow not
enough in space. It's weird, it's like you if. I
also have the feeling that most of Luson's stories were
created when he was fourteen years old, and so he
writes women as if he is a holy proteenager and

(01:05:32):
that's a bad writing. Oh god, how gross would be
if he was just like, oh, what's a younger version
of my wife to be in this movie? But I wasn't,
but I asked him. When I answer your question, I
think that Luke Bisson doesn't respect women period. And I
think he loves a song and dance sequence and he's like, well,

(01:05:52):
I'm not gonna waste a man in this. Put someone
in some hot pants, yeah, make a prance for me. Yes,
that's a great and unfortunate point. Thank you. Do you
have any other questions? Anything. Oh yeah, come on down.
What's your name? My name is Katie. When we were
watching this movie, my question was they find this hand

(01:06:14):
which doesn't look like her hand after she's made into
a person, do they design her like the creepy scientists
design her to look like that or is that like
her genetic code? Oh? Actually, this is something I wanted
to touch on. I have to imagine they're just reconstructing
whatever like genetic material would like dictate her to end
up being like but that what ends up perhaps, so

(01:06:38):
everyone is using like he pronouns before they realize that
she is a woman. Uh so it's that woman's perfect.
So this to me is a version of that trope
where it's like the person that you thought was a
man until they take off their helmet is actually a
woman and you don't even get the like the frustrating

(01:07:01):
but also the one redeeming part of that trope, as
you get to see that character be capable at something
before you find out they're a woman. And this woman
does not even isn't even afforded that. It's like a
hand god like when she comes out of the Fiudi printer,
like she is perfect. Yeah, and they're like oh cool,
So she doesn't have any we don't really care, and

(01:07:22):
it's just and you see her be literally like I
I feel as if you see her be literally born
in this thing that she later fox Bruce Willis in
because we all aspire to fuck Bruce Willis inside of
our moms, like fucking in your childhood bed, which is
still also your mom. Just I honestly wish I had

(01:07:45):
I never did, but you know it's it's fucking weird. Yeah,
that they it is sort of that thing where they're like,
it is it perfect that you can hetero fuck and
that's like the Lamo Coppa right, And then even like uh,
father Cornelius is like he's a she because everyone was,
I guess expecting the perfect sabreme being to be a man,

(01:08:09):
but she's a woman. But that has no impact on
the story except for the fact that then Bruce Willis
can later have sex with her because he's hetero and
because hetero normativity. Are there any other questions or comments?
Gary Olman's canceled, so we can't comment on him at
this time. Alfred Molina should have a Billina would have

(01:08:30):
killed it. Alba Billina could have played Bruce Willis is
partly been thick Bruce Willis. That would have been great.
He I would love well. I don't not to take
parts away from women, but what if the hand traled
into Alfred Bollina. That would have been kind of fun.
And then when everything else was exactly the same, he's

(01:08:51):
still Casses Bruce Wills at the end, there's still love.
I don't know love. What if it Albert will appeared
in an incubator and they're like, perfect, I want to
see I want Prince Well to be like five D
proud eyes, Alfa Molina, Lulu Dallas multi pass and then yeah,

(01:09:19):
I think that actually not to like, you know, uncast
the only woman in this movie, but I think Alva
Billina would be a great Lulu. Yeah. I would have
it was a gender neutral name exactly. Would have help Billina,
would have Bruce Willis kissed Alpha Billina and then alfread
Billina did kill Bruce Willis, and he's like, I'm the
hero of the movie. Now this is the Alpha Blena movie.

(01:09:41):
This is the Molina element, like Alpha Morlena. Yeah, so anyways,
we just uncast the female lead. Hey, does this movie
pass the Bechdel test? No? Not even a little bit. No,
there's times where women speak to each other, but it's

(01:10:02):
usually the times I spot it was Lulu talking to
a woman in a service role who was not names. Yeah,
we don't know her name. Yeah, so yeah, that's a
big fat no on passing the Bechdel tests for this movie.
Shall we write the movie on our nipple scale? Let's
do zero to five nipples based on its portrayal and
representation of women. I'm gonna go ahead and give the

(01:10:23):
fifth element a half nipple. I mean between the like
wild objectification and sexualization of a female character who is
crucial to the story in the sense that she is
the fifth element and she's like the component they need
for the weapon against evil. But aside from that, like

(01:10:46):
her characterization, it's the whole born sexy yesterday trope. She
is there for gratuitous nudity a lot of the time.
She is has the brain of a baby essentially that
is very good at learning about war and she hates it.

(01:11:09):
Do you think someone watched that movie and they're like, Oh,
where's bad? Oh my god, I'm going to give up
on everything now until Bruce Willis puts one on me. Uh,
and then even like the moments where she's like kicking
ass just like feel like a very empty thing where well,
now Bruce Willis will respect her when he flex her

(01:11:31):
so dumb. Yeah, So I think the movie doesn't really
handle anything well when it comes to representing women. So yeah,
that's a half nipple from me, and I will give
it of course to Cormoran Dallas's cat. So um, that's
that daniell Um. I'm going to give it a full nipple.

(01:11:54):
I'm giving it one full nip, if only because the
action scenes were really good and it did help launch
Miyadjoovic's career. Because of that, she was able to go
on and be an actual good actress in things where
she got to kick people in the face, and because
it was able to launch that career in other movies,

(01:12:17):
it'll get a full nip. Cool, I guess I'll go
half as well there there, It's just it's all the
progressist movie is trying to make us kind of self
defeating in a very way, uh that we see over
and over again, and as pleasant as I'm sure it
was to see some representation at the time of this

(01:12:38):
coming out, seeing it over twenty years later, it feels
even more frustrating to feel like you're trying to have
your cake and eat it too, of like, here's queer representation,
here's female representation. Just kidding, it's Ruse Wallas the whole time,
and it's just it's frustrating. I am glad that it
was able to give credibility and a platform to actors

(01:13:01):
who wouldn't have had it otherwise, and that's more than
a lot of movies at this time did, and that
definitely deserves acknowledgement. But like plot wise, I would argue,
you could write out really every character on Bruce Willis's
team except for him, and the movie could feasibly play
out the exact same way, because even though we're told

(01:13:23):
over and over that Leelu is the chosen one, Bruce
Willis is the chosen one according to this movie, because
the thing that needs to happen cannot happen without him
and without his choices every step of the way. So
it's weird that this movie is secretly all right, but
uh no, I mean it's just like it it hurts

(01:13:45):
to watch because you see a filmmaker who you can
tell thinks they're doing the right thing, but they're not.
And so it's frustrating, and so I'll give it a
half nipple. And I'm going to give my half nipple
to Chris Tucker Well. Danielle, thank you so much for
being here. Thank you for having guest. Danielle Radford, Thank you.

(01:14:09):
What would you like to plug? Where can people find
you online? Um? Yeah, so you guys. Every Thursday I
do SJU on Screen Junkies News and then on Screen
Junkies Main. I am the social blah blah blah for
movie fights. Um, just find me online. I usually plug
all of my weird things. Also, if you like wrestling,
I have a wrestling podcast called Tights and Fights. Um.

(01:14:30):
You also find me on Patreon, where I do a
lot of fun things for not a lot of money
a month, because you know who has it. Thank you
to the Ruby for having us. Thank you take Aristotle's
back there. If you want to meet Aristotle, having up
for yourselves for being here, You're going We're back. That's

(01:14:52):
the episode, baby, Love it or leave it with the
name of a podcast you can listen to right after this.
We just wanted to plug a few things to say
thank you again to the Ruby for having us. To
daniel rad to Daniel Radford, a wonderful, wonderful person, very funny. UM,
don't forget that. We have a live show in Los

(01:15:13):
Angeles at the Ruby on the second Saturday of every
single month, so come out join the fam. We're starting
to get a little crew comes every month. It's very exciting. Uh.
And we're also going on tour very soon. Yes, yes,
so we will be in uh San Francisco. I sold
out show, so sorry if you don't have your tickets. Portland.

(01:15:35):
It's not sold out yet at the time of this recording, Losers,
but it's close. At the time of this recording, Um,
it is not yet sold out, but those tickets are
going very fast, so perhaps by the time of the
episode release it will be sold out. Hard to say,
you've got to just get on your little computer and
figure it out. And then we have Seattle shows as well.

(01:15:59):
The two live back cast shows are sold out. However, however,
we are doing UH stand up show on We highly
recommend you know, you see Caitlin and Jamie strike out
on their own and do a little something. Maybe we'll
do something together. We haven't decided. Do I have three
minutes of Titanic based puns? As yes I do. And

(01:16:21):
you know what, by the time you know this show
rolls around, I may have written three more minutes. Hard
to say, I usually end up body slamming a doll.
Anything could happen at this wild Seattle show. Okay, so um,
grab tickets for that the ones that are still available
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(01:16:45):
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(01:17:05):
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(01:17:26):
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(01:17:49):
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(01:18:10):
thank you so much for listening. Thanks for all of
your support. We'll be here next week. Bye bye