The Rocky Horror Picture Show with Joan Haley Ford

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
have wenen inum? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands?
Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing
it with the beck del Cast. Hello listeners, you're about
to hear an episode that we recorded live at the
Ruby in Los Angeles on the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show.

(00:26):
And speaking of episodes recorded live at the Ruby in
Los Angeles, we are doing another one on November nine
pm and we're covering Home Alone. And this is a
show you don't want to miss because it's our last
show at that location because the Ruby is moving to
a different spot in l A. But that location has

(00:47):
been our home for live l A shows for over
a year, so it's very special to us and we
want you to come hang out with us there one
last time. Tickets and details are at Bechtel cast dot com.
Click on the live tab and we'll see you there.
Enjoy the episode. Hello, thank you for coming to the

(01:13):
life Stow. This is the Bechtel Cast. Welcome, Welcome, you
recome to see I see some T shirts in the crowd.
I wait, I need to get I have too many
you all use situate. I'll talk. Hello, Um, I'm dressed
as Brad Brad Majors from tonight's film. I'm dresses I

(01:35):
don't know. I was like, it's Halloween where black, and
then I didn't have time to go to CVS to
get fishnets. But if I had, you would have been like, oh,
I get it right. So just imagine I would run
that errand I was supposed to run. Yeah, I mean
you've got lipstick on. I think that's great. That's more
effort than I would normally demonstrate at this event. Uh so, yeah,

(01:59):
but I love you, Bradfit. It's incredible. Thank you. The
jacket the Bradfit. The jacket isn't quite right, and I
apologize for that, but don't apologize. That's right. Women apologize
too much. And yeah, we're putting it. I've been saying
it for years. Women need to stop apologizing for their
Brad cosplay. They really do. You're doing great. Thank you anyway.

(02:23):
My name is Caitlin Dronte, my name is Jamie Loftus,
and we thank you. We are the Bechtel Cast. We
talk about the representation of women in film and how
it's usually pretty abysmal. We use the Bechtel test as
a jumping off point, and that is a media metric

(02:44):
also sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, that requires that
two female identifying characters with names talk to each other
about something other than a man. Does it normally have
an in movie three to one? No, we've got a
doozy tonight. You know, there's a real like shaky hand.

(03:06):
Hard to say because I think the things that I mean.
And spoiler alert too if anyone is a new listener
on this episode. Uh, this show has very little to
do with the actual Bechdel test, but in terms of
determining it for this movie, it's very hard because there's
molt there's I think three or four layers into determining,

(03:27):
and then there's also like a consent question that has
nothing to do with gender that you're just like there watching,
So it's unclear. This is a wild one where we're
very excited and we've been getting this request forever. Um
and tonight's tonight. Tonight's the night on it by round
of applause. Who has seen the movie Rocky Horror Picture Show? Wow,

(03:54):
I think it's done your homework alright, looking carefully, Uh,
this is anyone not seen it. Clap clap, Yes, Okay,
we are not going to do what Rocky Horror does,
which is humiliate you if you've never seen the movie.
It's fine. Not everyone can see every movie. Isn't that
a fun community aspect where if you haven't done what

(04:16):
everyone else has done, you're absolutely humiliated, Uh, in front
of strangers. I think that's a very chill entry point
to a community. Definitely, that's great, and I think it's
brave of you to to show up to an event
about a movie you have not seen. Yes, good enough, Yes,
we love that. Okay. So we are talking about Rocky

(04:39):
Horror Picture Show tonight and we have a guest with us,
returning guest to the show. We love her. Yes, you
might remember her from our Scream episode. She is a
comedian and a writer for Nurdist and ThunderCats Roar on
Cartoon Network. It's Joan Ford. Hi. I've always wanted to

(05:03):
be a Halloween tradition and now I am one. Yes, Yes,
welcome back, Thanks for having me. So. I mean, since
we're commenting unfits an incredible seemed Halloween fit, I feel like, yeah,
I decided, I'm like, I'm I'm backstage decided, I'm like Halloween, Janet.
I feel like this is what Janet. She wouldn't get

(05:25):
a full costume, but she'd wear like a cute dress
with like skeletons on it. Like, yeah, I know native,
I'm getting the spirit of it. So, John, what's your
history relationship with this iconic film? Okay? I was growing up,
like I was like in my like early like ten

(05:45):
eleven years, um, you know, the early, the early, the
tens and eleven, whatever you call it. That was the
early ones when like I think it was, this was
just hitting its twentieth anniversary. I remember like Fox was
like playing it. It was like Fox is making like
a big deal of like after Herman's Head, It's time
for where the first network broadcast of of the Rocky
Horror Picture Show, And like I did not know what

(06:07):
this thing was. I had kind of heard inklings of
it like as a as a like cult movie, but
I didn't really know what it was. And I remember
seeing it for the first time like on that broadcast
and being kind of like transfixed by it but not
quite knowing why. Like I remember going back to my
like Catholic grade school the next day and telling everyone
about like and there's this he's like a transvestite. And

(06:30):
I didn't know quite what I was saying, but it
got me in trouble um. But yeah, I was just
like this is so I was like, I was like,
this is very cool. Like I thought this I had
discovered a cool thing, which I had, but not many
people everyone agreed, but I was like, this is cool,
Like he's a transdestite. It's a cool thing, right, And
everyone's like and uh and yes, that was like my

(06:50):
first memory of it. And then it kind of like
it's a thing that I mean, you know, I was
a closeted, queer, white theater kid in suburban America, so
it kept creeping up in my life. I remember once
like I got home from like a thing and my
dad was like, hey, like I taped Rocky Horror Picture
Show for you off of Comedy Central, and like by

(07:13):
that time, I like internalized that it wasn't something I
was supposed to like. So I was like, I don't
like that thing. I don't want to watch that thing.
Why did you take that for me? And I think
that's when my dad like stopped being like, well, no
longer am I going to like try to involve myself
in their queer identity. That's it. I'm giving up. I
turned them off to it and strike and it was
one strike yes, um, and then yeah and then I

(07:35):
I went to the shadow cast in like high school,
and then in college and again when I moved out here.
So it's just a thing that's been like ever a
present thing in my life, like from a very early age.
The tens in the eleven Yes, the tens and elevens. Yes,
a bottle of them, Jamie, how about you. I got
into Rocky Horror. I think around high school. I know

(07:57):
the first time I went. I was like it was
my freshman year in high school. My mom was very
into Rocky Horror. Um the there everyone's laughing because maybe
some people have already seen the pick. But she tweeted
at the betel Cast account of her, at age seventeen,
wearing really not many clothes. That was her. That was

(08:17):
my mom. I thought that was you maybe No, no, no,
I there the pictures of me are far less cool
than the ones that were tweeted. I'm wearing far more clothes. No,
they're my mom like in because you know, I grew
up in like a suburban area as well, where queer
community was kind of scant to be found. And my

(08:38):
my mom when she was younger, like loved going. She
went every single month. She was a stand She was there,
she knew it all, she loved wearing Leo tarts in public.
She just was there. So she was like really encouraging
me to go. When I was a young teen and
I went, I went with my cousin. I think we
went maybe like once a year when I was in

(09:00):
high school to the West Bridgewater showing. I mean, if
all my Westbridgewater heads listening to this, it's a very
small theater, but a lot of enthusiasm. And then I
think I went like once or twice more in college
and then when I lived here. But I've I've been
like I didn't want to say, like five or six times. Okay,
very good. What about you, Caitlin. I've never been to

(09:21):
a live screening. I've seen this movie probably only a
handful of times. I saw it for the first time
in college when I was getting one of two film
degrees that I would eventually have. But I I like,
I thought it was like cool and campy and subversive.
But you you may know this about me. I'm not

(09:44):
a huge fan of musicals, although this is one that
I tolerate quite a bit more than than others. But
for me, it comes down to story and the story
of the because again, I do have a master's degree
in screenwriting from Boston University that I simply hate to mention.
It's not what one would call yeah, not a not

(10:07):
a classic three act structure. I think that there's because
all three of us have watched it multiple times in
preparation for this, and between the three of us we
really tried to place together like, oh, I think that
they maybe thought they were foreshadowing there, yeah, yeah, like
when do we find out these characters are aliens? Um.

(10:31):
This was the first time I watched in and completely
realized Brad and Janet have absolutely no bearing on the
actual like plot of the film. They could be a
raised from the story and the film every the film
would end the exact same way it ended. Yes, if
they had never arrived, they had never arrived them even

(10:53):
like them arriving as an inciting incident. If we're talking
your degree and thank you so much, makes it doesn't incite.
It used to incite what was going to happen anyway, Yes, yes,
it incites nothing like the party was going to happen,
the brutal murder of famous rock star meat Load was

(11:13):
going to happen. And they're not even in that they
are audience circuits in the most literal way, and that
they are just audience members who I get to have
sex with the with the main character at one point. Yes,
that's the best audience circuits. I like to think that
Brad and Janet inspire riff Raff and Magenta to rise

(11:34):
up against their bourgeois oppressor and take over. Right the end, well,
here's Mike. But I was getting a lot of like
Cerce and Jamie Lanister energy from them because they keeping like,
we're siblings, but we're kissing and you're like, let's not
go here, like but then at the end they're like, no,

(11:58):
we are still siblings who are fucking. But the twist
is we're alien siblings who are fucking. You're like, all right,
I guess that's a twist. I don't know who you
get who you was right? Well with that? Should we
get into the story that the words story and plot

(12:20):
loosely for this movie, but here it is the three
of us will we'll do our fare at Truly, if
anyone in the crowd has exposition some little seedling that
was planted that we totally missed, let us know. It's
very possible. Maybe we're bad viewers. Yeah, you guys, educate us.
We're blaming ourselves. I know we just talked about it.

(12:42):
But I apologize for what I what's about to happen.
I'm already sorry for it. I think this is gonna
go great. Okay, okay, okay, thank you, Brat, you're welcome.
So Janet which is Susan Surrandon's character, and Brad played
by Barry Boss. He was on Spin City Brave. I've

(13:03):
never seen it, but he say break camp. Yes. They
are at their friend's wedding and the two of them
get engaged after the wedding. It's unclear whether they want
to get engaged. They definitely think they should get engaged

(13:23):
right right, and then they sing a song about being
engaged or the best songs in it. I mean, damnit, Janet,
good stuff. This is when it's revealed that Susan Sarandon
has a serviceable high school soprano. Bad they're not helping her,

(13:45):
like it's just not her it's clear that she's an alto.
Then we cut to a scene where they are driving
in the dark and stormy night to visit their friend Dr.
Everett Scott, as as we all do right after we
get engaged. The first thing, the first people you tell
after you get engage, you're a high school science teacher,

(14:08):
not your parents. That's a fun thing to imagine, like, oh,
what if I just went to Mr grinds Head. And
they're traveling on what turns out to be a dead
end road, and then they get a flat tire, so
they get out of the car and walk to this
castle that they had passed a few miles back, and

(14:28):
the light is on in the castle, so they figure
they can go in and use their phone to call
for help, and then a spooky looking person answers the door.
The writer of the movie Riff, rafted by Richard O'Brien.
Richard O'Brien, who comes back time and time again, is
a person who wants to be taken very seriously as

(14:50):
an actor, but he created Rocky Horror Picture Show and
he plays riff Raff and he answers the door and
Janet Brad here's some commotion and Riff Raff tells them
about a social event that the Master is hosting que
the iconic time warp song which Joan mentioned last night

(15:16):
everyone from their youth, yes, yes, oh yes, I mean
my sense memory of that scene is that there's literally
like a hundred people at dance hall and we watched
last night and when there's like maybe twelve, I was like,
why memorial asked, memories are so fall Memories are memories
are lies? There's twelve l a casting people like stumbling

(15:39):
their way into they've all kind of learned the dances.
They clearly like, yeah, they had a day for rehearsal. Yeah,
they have closed shots on like the three or four
who learned it, and then the rest there you just
have fun, do something and does move to the music.
It later becomes clear that there were days that they
could have award for those same extras to come back,

(16:01):
and days where they clearly couldn't afford not to jumphead
but the floor show, like there's no audience for the
floor show, and it's like you've written like people who
have the whole job in the movie is just to
watch what's going on, and they're not there for the
like big finale show. It wasn't in the budget, but
the song does slap and that's what's good lap. And yeah,

(16:27):
so there's all these like suddenly there's a bunch of
like cookie people and they're all singing and dancing, and
among them are Magenta and Colombia. Uh. And then Janet
is like, let's get out of here. It's weird and scary,
and just then Dr Frankenforter shows up Tim Curry and

(16:49):
the role of a lifetime. Yes, I want to take
I want to take elocution lessons from him from this movie,
like just pronounce everywhere the way he does. So I
did some Tim Curry diving on this one. And Terry
Gross I mean an icon and her own right, Uh, Terry,
Like she asked him, like, you know, how did you

(17:09):
develop this party? He's like, well, I was trying to
figure out, like I guess that, like Frankenfurter was American
accented for a while, Cockney accented for a while. And
then Tim Curry was like, but what if Frankenfurter sounded
like the Queen? And that was that was why why
the credre sounds that way? And it's terrific. It's a
great choice, and Frank Confurter sings a song about uh

(17:35):
and I feel weird using these words, but being a
sweet transvestite from trans sexual Transylvania. And that song also slaps. Yes,
it absolutely dies and the performances incredible. Oh yes, And
then Janet and Brad are invited upstairs and there was

(17:59):
the castle has an la vater. Yes, the castle has
an elevator. They're wet, clothes are removed, so now they're
just in their underwear for a little while. And Dr Frankenfurter,
who is Jenna ever get her clothes back? I think
they get robes. They get very silky, definitely gets her

(18:20):
clothes back less so than Brad. She's in her underwear
for I would say the majority of the yes is correct.
But Frankenfurter is a mad scientist and he unveils his
latest creation, which is a person named Rocky Horror. Get
it and Rockies bandages are removed, and then he sings

(18:43):
a song. I mean like they're just song after so
many songs, I would say that Rocky Horror, the actor
playing Rocky Horror tries to sing a song in this
they hired a model. Yes, it's a lot of like
screen singing. Yeah, Yeah, there's a lot of high school energy.

(19:05):
Dr Frankenfurter is very pleased with how Rocky turned out
because he's very muscular and very diplomatic way to put that. Yet, well,
he seems to have created Rocky mostly so that he
can have sex with Rocky. Yes, and then Eddie meat
Loaf shows up, and then we're like, hold on meat Loaf,

(19:29):
and then we pause and we're like pre Bad out
of Hell or a post Bad out of Hell, pre
pre he's not famous yet this one because I was
just trying to figure out, well, we were all trying
to figure out where's the majority of this budget coming from. Yes,
and it seems like it was post Bad out of Hell.
A lot of it will be going towards meat Low,
but it's pre so we just don't know. Yeah, if

(19:49):
anyone knows, like what you had to pay for it
from meat Loaf cameo in n let us know. I
don't think it was super high. I was like Tim Curry,
Susan Surrandon and meat Loaf, we're all like pre being
very famous in this movie. So we just corners were
cut unclear wild the budget was only a little over
a million dollars, right, right, So I mean it's a

(20:12):
billion dollars. I don't know, I'm just like a million dollar.
Frank Confreter's makeup alone cost five hundred thousand dollars big,
probably big, like Sequin budget too. Okay. So then Eddie
is there. He's a biker. He's a biker, He's got
a big gash on his head. He sings a song.

(20:35):
He's Mr. Lobotomy. It took me forever to figure out
what was happening there, but he loves rock and roll.
He sings a song about it, and then seemingly out
of nowhere, Frank Confreter chops him with an axe and
kills him. And we're like, oh, surely this will come back,
and and for a long time it doesn't. And then

(21:00):
Frank Conferter goes off to have sex with his creation, Rocky,
And meanwhile, Brad and Janet are shown to separate rooms
to sleep him. And then someone who Janet thinks is
Brad comes in and starts kissing her, but it's actually Frankenfurter,
in a scene that we will talk about, don't you worry.

(21:21):
And then Frankenfurter does the same thing to Brad in
another scene when we will also talk about and then
meanwhile Rocky has gotten loose from his chains because well
because in that Rocky is a prisoner of Frankenfurter. But
then the reason that he is I still haven't made

(21:42):
heads retails with this is because he's taunted by a candelabra, yes,
being held by riff Raff, and Riff is like, hey,
candle labra and Rockie's like, no, candle labra, and then
he is scay. I was like, that is what breaks him? Well, yeah,
he's being killed prisoner gothic lighting. No thank you. He's like,

(22:05):
I'm out of here, and he shimmies down the fire pole.
It was like, why was why was riff Raff taunting
him with that candelabra. I simply don't know. I don't know. Well,
everyone pour into our d m is telling us why
we're so dumb. Realizing the candelabra taunt. Rocky does not

(22:26):
get very far and then Janet finds him and she
is extremely horny now, so she sings a song about
how she wants him to have sex with her, and
then they have sex, and I'm gonna say I that's
my most that that song slaps, that's my favorite song. Yes,
and we get to see the ever so rare female

(22:47):
orgasm on screen. Oh, is that what happens? Caitlyn will
unpack this at a letter. I think it's implied that
that's what happened at the end, and then the red
silk sheet is pulled over her, like don't look at it,
you know. It's like, oh, that's why we're here. Okay,

(23:09):
good to know. Yeah. Then Dr Everett Scott shows up
and Frankenfurter considers Doctor's got to be a rival mad
signed like a rival scientist, classic, right, Yeah, And Frankenfurter
thinks that Dr Scott sent Brad to the castle to
spy on Frankenfurter, but the reason he actually come was

(23:32):
to find his nephew Eddie, who saw nephew and now
he's dead. It's ti together very naturally. We're like, this
is not German scientist never love ah. Yes, And then

(23:54):
Frankenfurter and Brad discovered Janet and Rocky post coitus and
I guess po orgasm and they're not happy about. But
then they all have dinner together and during the tense dinner,
it's tense during dinner, we find out that Frankenfurter and
company are aliens. Over an hour into the movie. By

(24:18):
the way, everyone who lives in this castle is an alien.
Also the castles of Spaceship Yeah. And then Dr Scott
finds out that his nephew Eddie was killed and like
the reason that Eddie had a gash on his head.
We find out eventually that Frankenfurter removed part of Eddie's
brain to put into Rocky's head. So now we understand

(24:42):
meat Love's head scar clue shadow foreshadowing for a payoff
that never comes, or it's like, oh, okay, so his
brain was cut in half. Does that have bury on
future events? It's just stated and you're like, oh, that
sucks for meat Love. Oh he's dead, I guess yeah,

(25:05):
And and they ate him, so he has bigger fish
to fry in this situation. Really, it's so confusing. And
then Frank Confurter turns Brad Janet, Doctor Scott, Columbia, and
Rocky into stone statues because he's had enough of them.
I guess, I'm not, I don't know. And then he

(25:26):
puts on a show featuring the statues, which then turned
back into the people, and then riff Raff and Magenta
show up and they're like, hey, Frankenfurter, we're going back
home to our home planet. They're in space outfits now, yes, yeah,
and they're going back to their home planet in the
Transylvania Galaxy. And then Frankenfurter sings a song about how

(25:48):
happy he is to be going home, but riff Raff
is like, you misunderstood. It's only me and Magenta who
are going back, and then he shoots Cerci and Jamie
and they're like, no one is any thing. We're gonna
kill everyone who isn't directly related to us. Because then
frankin Fur gets shot with a laser gun and Rocky

(26:09):
tries to save him, but they both die. And then
riff Half is like, hey, Brad and Janet and Dr Scott,
you should get out of here now because we're about
to leave on our castle spaceship. And then they leave
and the castle blasts off into space and that's everyone's
like the weird night. Also the story that like, there

(26:33):
are cuts to the narrator who is like, uh something,
he's I don't know who he is. The narrator I
believe in the is like build is like the criminologist
or something. So yeah, this is like a it was
the first true crime podcast. It was like it was
just recount. He was recounting the story this true crime

(26:53):
that happened. So that's the story of Rocky Horror Picture Show. Yeah,
that's so fun. I feel like even the biggest fans
of this movie would struggle to explain the plot. I

(27:14):
think they're like, the first half hour is amazing, and
then by then, hopefully you're drunk. So there's a lot
to unpack here. Yes, let's let's get into it. Where
shall we start? Gosh, well do we want to start?
I suppose was like the cultural impact this movie has had. Yeah,

(27:36):
I mean there, I've done a lot of a lot
of research outside because I mean, there's a lot to
talk about about what happens in plot, but the main
legacy of this movie is the subculture that has popped
up around it. And so I did a fairer amount
of research because I've gone to see Rocky Horror Picture
Show in theaters and number of times, but never I

(27:58):
was yeah, of a like so young when I started
seeing it that I didn't really question the culture around it,
and then continue to not do. So, Yeah, it's like
I probably the last time I went to a a
stage show or a shadow cast of it was maybe
like eight or nine years ago, and um, yeah, I

(28:20):
guess I didn't. I didn't know back then the shouting
slut a hundred times at the screen, which was bad, right,
So so that is like the main thing that people
take issue with. So if you're not familiar with the
culture that surrounds live screenings at the Rocky Hard Picture Show,
there's a very well documented and kind of like unchanging
sequence of things that people yell at the screen, props

(28:43):
that they bring, There's like stuff that like there's forks
thrown at one point, there's water that's sprayed, and it's
like a very ritualistic thing. And some of the rituals
are very like cookie and fun, and other of the
rituals have not aged very well, such as any time
that and Its character is on screen, you're supposed to
scream slut at the screen, even though she has sex

(29:06):
no more than anyone else in the movie, like Brad.
She and Brad stray about from each other from each
other and about equal announce like, and yet he is
not referred to as a slot never Yeah, and and
so there is some interesting, I think conversation that I
will just admittedly just scratch the surface here on the

(29:26):
conversation around this culture because it is like an interesting,
complicated legacy for a movie that I mean, certainly in
my area, and I think a lot of areas in
America in particular are an entry way into queer culture
and a very clear place to go that if you

(29:47):
are if you want to be involved, like it's a
good place to start. Yeah, it's it's just kind of
a like it's it's a very like almost like Mickey
Mouse version of like of like queer culture, which is appropriate.
Disney owns it now, Um right yeah yeah, yeah, um
think about that. Um but um, Columbia Ware is making

(30:09):
Mouse years halfway through it, so like so they are
they knew what's gonna happen four years later? Um, but yeah,
it is like I mean the fact, like I think
back on like that story told the fact that my
dad was like, you know, hey, like I recorded this
off TV for you tells me that you know, it
is like and I knew he knew what it was,
but it's just like it's just this very like safe

(30:29):
like it's still like challenges you and is inviting you
into a kind of like new, weird, fun world, but
it's like this it's kind of like it's the safety
version of that. Right. It seems to be a lot
of people like step one into like like I have
questions about my sexuality or this is just something that
is this is a community that is cool and interesting

(30:51):
to me and like let's explore it. It's a lot
of people step one because it's accessible to younger people
as well, And so I don't want to neg this
community on the whole because there's a lot about it
that is absolutely wonderful and like necessary, especially in places
where queer communities aren't as accessible. Um, I mean there's
a there's a lot of value in like having media

(31:13):
like like this movie that's like palatable for you know
young well Urban Night it's like, well it's very you
know like and will will hollow the word well it's
very problematic, let's say. Um, it is a lot of
people's like first exposure to queer community, and it was
I think one of my first involvement like and just

(31:36):
it was like there was literally the g s A
at my high school and you could go to Rocky Horror,
and that was really all you could do, and so
it was like it was important. But that said, there
is a lot in the community that has been challenged
and questioned over the years that I think is very interesting.
The yelling slut at Janet, I think it is the

(31:57):
most obvious, but there's also I mean there's like lines
I looked through just kind of the stuff I'd forgotten
about what people yell at the screen of when Janet says, oh,
I was saving myself, and the audience will reply for
what a rainy day, Look outside, bitch, it's pouring, Like
they're just constantly yelling ship at Janet um And so

(32:18):
I I was researching there was some great stuff written
about because another component of the Rocky Horror experience is
that there's a shadow cast acting out the movie in
front of you. So there's like local actors and they
often have like a pretty cult following. They become like
celebrities within this like small niche community. I mean, I

(32:38):
had the biggest crush on whomever was playing Rocky Horror
in West Bridgewater in the late two thousands. I was like,
I loved them, but it was I was they were
like a local celeb, and I was like, I can't approach,
you know. And so there is like this untouchable, like
kind of cool quality UM. And there's been a lot

(33:01):
written and and interviewed about people like this. So I
I first wanted to share a few quotes from a
former director and cast member from the eighties and nineties
who was involved in Rocky Horror in the Houston area. UM.
His name is Jeff Rowner. This was written a couple
of years ago, just kind of reflecting on his experience

(33:24):
and the Rocky Horror cast. He's a siss head man,
and he sort of wrote a column about UM reflecting
on it years later. So a few quotes from there.
He says, quote, it's not as fun as it used
to be watching Rocky after years of being a media
critic has definitely worn the shine off the film and

(33:44):
the cold experience that grew up around it isn't really
much better. Take screaming slit whenever anyone says Janet's name
is arguably the single most basic call line in Rocky
Horror history, alongside screaming asshole. When anyone says Brad, it's
basically Rocky one on one for divergence, which we'll get to. Uh,
so they can get used to the whole talking of

(34:04):
the screen thing. I remember when I was a cast director,
we got a complaint letter sent to the theater. The
main gist was that having hundreds of people screaming slut
was kind of funked up, kind of uh I with
the righteous indignation only a twenty year old white dude
can muster through a fit. How dare they besmirge a

(34:27):
traditional part of the experience. How they no appreciation for
the culture of the thing? How they know respect for
the unique cinematic experience that was rocky Looking back at
it now, I sounded like a fucking gamer gator. I
sounded like every other aggrieved son of privilege beating his
chest because his toys made other people uncomfortable. It's a

(34:47):
weirdly conservative mindset for something that was supposed to be
about breaking boundaries. A lot of the people I ran
with considered offense to be the whole point of the enterprise,
which is kind of bizarre for a film whose main
tagline is don't dream it, be it. So that was
one one perspective on Just like someone who was very
deeply involved in the culture and then was questioning his

(35:09):
own attitudes towards it. Oh, and then he goes on
to say, and then I have a please bear with me,
anyone there's this is a very deeply in trance community.
So he goes on to say, quote, a friend of
mine once said that Rocky was LGBT cosplayed for straight people.
And that is definitely a sentiment I understand now. It's

(35:29):
less of a boundary breaker and more of a chance
for the comfortable to dip their toes in their perception
of gay culture. Don't get me wrong, I loved being there. Hell,
the first LGBT people I ever met were there, which
is not surprising since I got my start back in
when Houston was still sporting anti gave vice laws, and
there weren't there. There just weren't a lot of places
LGBT people could go and be themselves. It feels like

(35:52):
an artifact to be appreciated for its historical value more
for than its continued cultural relevance. It's basically the South
Park of Holt Films, and that what it had to
say has long since been said by better voices. So
that was one perspective of a former cast member. Um
and then there was a writer, Lindsay King Miller, who

(36:15):
interviewed a number of current Rocky Horror Picture Show cast
members just last year who first shared their own experience
that I'd be curious. I mean when when I was
going to and we were just talking about this backstage,
Like I look back on going to the Rocky Horror
Picture Show generally positively, and it's like a fun experience.

(36:37):
But even so, there is that culture around the idea
of like if you're a quote unquote virgin going to
the show, or if it's your first time going, there
is a lot of pressure put on you too. I mean,
there were accounts in this story which was published by
them last year about people in certain areas who were

(36:58):
asked to flash the audience because it was their first
time going to Rocky Horror. I remember when I went
for the first time, they were trying to convince people
to kiss on stage if they were virgins, you know, virgins.
But also I was fourteen, and I remember telling the
person I was like, oh, this is my cousin, and

(37:18):
you know, like I was there with my cousin and
being fourteen, and and it just wasn't even something I
even thought about until I was reading these other accounts
of like, oh yeah, I remember having to like, you know,
kind of hang on to my cousin and be like, oh,
we gotta, you know, look at for each other. And
so I just want to share a little bit from
Lindsay's story. They didn't interview One of the most quote

(37:41):
sorry journalism, okay quote. One of the most visible faces
of the movement for a safer Rocky Horror Picture Show
is New York City cast member Jackson Tory Bart, aged
twenty three, who started attending shadow cast performances at the
Rocky Horror as a teenager, and Jackson says, quote, what

(38:02):
I found there was a place to explore and express
my non binary gender as it began to take shape,
and lived truer in my queer identity. And then Jackson
later joins the New York City Rocky Horror Picture Show
cast and says that quote, upon interacting with the wider community,
I was surprised to find leadership dominated by siss gender
straight people, most often men. Unquote. They realized quickly that

(38:26):
the Rocky Horror subculture was far from immune to the
homophobia and transphobia from which it was supposed to be
a refuge. Jackson says, quote, I will never forget being
told that my gender was fake and invalid by a
middle aged sciss man and of course at heels and
garters unquote. Lindsay also interviews another cast member named Cassia,

(38:47):
who is a member of the r k O Army
cast alongside Jackson in New York. Cassia goes on to say, quote,
I had people calling me a cunt, saying I was
oblit to society, threatening to sue me, threatening to try
to get me kicked off my cast, spreading gossip about
me unquote when they attended a Rocky Horror convention, and

(39:08):
so whenever an allegation would come forward about a Rocky
Horror cast member, uh quote, Cassia, already familiar with potential repercussions,
was ready to support them and help call out their abusers.
Although Jackson and Cassia say they have faced backlash from
name calling to threats of legal action for turning a
spotlight on predators who use Rocky Horror as a hunting ground,

(39:31):
they have also been met with gratitude and support from
the community. Quote. Not everyone in the cast is as
loud about this as we are Cis Cassia, but everyone
cares a lot about this issue and what we are
trying to do unquote. So even within the Rocky horror community,
there has been of a fair amount of pushback in

(39:51):
recent years to be more accepting. And I think that
a lot of this comes up in the seventies nous
that this move be as routed in in terms of
just like seeking consent and considering the age of audience
members and and and homophobia and transphobia that just spiral out. Yeah,
I mean, I mean, I think that we are the

(40:13):
three of us watched it last night, and I think,
I mean, we were all pretty taking it because I
would say, like this is last night was probably one
of the first times I like watched watched the just
the movie as a movie and you know, um, and
not that I would have been making this call like
ten years ago, but seeing the scene where like the
two scenes in a row where Frankenfort just kind of

(40:33):
like you know, pulls a like Revenge of the Nerds
to like be with both of them is like really
like gross, Like it's really gross. And I mean, I
think you're right, it's that kind of you know, it's
it's a. It's there's something like a little bully ish
to it, like like everything you're describing like just it's
just these like bully undertones and then I don't know

(40:54):
that they're I think you're right, and seeing like those
things they exist like within the film to an extent. Right, Yeah,
it's interesting. I mean it's like I think there's definitely
a lot of discussion to be had, and it is
such a vast cult following that it's like from region
to region. I'm sure that the like the following around
it differs, but but it is. It was interesting too.

(41:18):
I mean I feel like it is generally painted as
like such a friendly and all encompassing, you know, open
space and then to hear that of course, like as
we've found out so many times that even these spaces
that were supposedly designed with openness in mind have this
insidious nature to them. Yeah, that's the thing. Well, speaking

(41:38):
of the director or the creator, yes, let's talk about creator,
Richard O'Brien, Yes, um, yeah, I mean Richard O'Brien was
like on record fairly recently, i think, like within the
last like two months as saying that he, uh, he
does not believe that like he does trans women are
not women. This essentially it was the extent of a

(41:59):
sentiment that a trans woman will always be like a
man in address, like it's it's all what I'm I
don't have to write down because it's all like the
best the you know, the turkey best of um um.
But it's and it's and and and he does say,
you know, like I consider myself like a third like

(42:19):
the third gender. I think that's a real thing, but
like transit trans people are not a real thing. And
it's like wow, way to like like gender is just
as fluid as you needed to be and goes no further. Yeah,
like I and like I don't know, but it's it
was like genuinely dishearm. It was genuinely sad, like because
not a huge part, but Rocky Horror was definitely a

(42:43):
part of my you know, kind of figuring myself, that
journey of figuring myself out. And I think, you know,
I was watching Laver Cox talk about her because she
played frankn Furder in the Two Sons two sixteen version,
and she talked about how, you know, she she's known
a lot of people who Yeah, Rocky Horror was the
start of their journey into you know, to figure out

(43:03):
who they were. Uh So, so I don't know, Like
I think of it as like it's like fucking like
Santa Claus telling you there's no Santa Claus. It's like
it's like Santa Claus like shows up and he's like,
I'm not real and then he disappears, and you're like,
what the fuss what my brains to think about this? Um?
But yeah, I don't know. It's it's it's it's confusing

(43:26):
because I didn't realize this until very recently when I
started doing some research about Richard O'Brien. But I pulled
some quotes from a BBC article. Is from this yea
from me? And in the article, he uh speaks, well,
I don't know pronouns, I don't know, but O'Brien speaks

(43:48):
about their gender identity and fluidity, saying, it's my book
quote journalism, thank you new bit quote. It's my belief
that we are on a tenuum between male and female.
There are people who are hardwired male, and there are
people who are hardwired female, but most of us are

(44:08):
on that continuum. And I believe myself probably to be
about se male female O'Brien has also and this is
me talking now unquote is what you say, right? Um? Journalism, yes, journalism.
O'Brien has also identified Joan, as you said, as being

(44:28):
a third sex and has taken estrogen. So we're like, okay,
he's he's gender fluid. But and then he's like, but
trans women aren't women, And you're like, what, Richard, what?
So it's confusing. Yeah, I mean to me, it just
you know, it speaks to this like intense inability to

(44:51):
look like kind of look outside yourself like all, I
like literally all. And I read in the interview. I
read that he's still that it's still he still us
mail pronounce. That's what I was. So that's where I
was going with. But like he's still, um, you know
you understand it's like lack of empathy, like he understands
what's going on inside of him, and but he can't

(45:14):
like extend that to like anybody, which you know, like
tracks with just like other things I've learned about him,
and like namely like you know, he's just like his
distaste for like how like popular his thing has become.
The thing is like with Richard O'Brien, outside of his
very messy views on gender and identification. In general, he

(45:39):
just seems like a pretty bitter person about like I
mean and but I'm sorry if there's stands in the audience,
but like but but in general, like he does come
off as like you're ruining my creation. And he's always
like why didn't people appreciate me as riff rap? And
you're like, I'm sorry, Yeah, there's a and I would

(46:00):
recommend why because I think the production itself is fun
On YouTube there is a like two fifteen stage production.
It's a lot of fun. Like Stephen Fry is the narrator,
but like they like interview Richard O'Brien like halfway through
and like it's just clear that he's like disgusted with this,
with this and he's people and he's like yeah, it's
just his vibe of like why, like these people are

(46:22):
ruining my my brilliantly crafted script, and it's like yeah, yeah,
or is your sophomore triumph? It was Shock Treatment, that
was his fault. That was his sequel to Rocky Horror.
It did not make an impact, as that reaction will
tell you. I have not I haven't seen it, but

(46:43):
but people it seems like people have generally argued that
it is a more cohesive piece than Rocky Horror. Yes,
I would say it's a more cohesive piece, I would say,
and none of the songs slap. Well, then what's the point. Um.
So that's a little bit of background I had about
the the state of the subculture. Uh, and then too
to everyone listening to everyone here the show, and I

(47:04):
mean I'm very interested in and we were talking about
this in last night of just like what is the
current uh state of Rocky Horror fandom? Because it does
seem like in some cases it does skew older and
where there are more options for many for queer community.
Now like where yeah, where does that fandom stand? Because

(47:24):
I mean, like we have the new art one which
I think is the lot the one of the new
art o Santa Manicas. Yeah, let's all go afterwards, let's
uh who can get it? Like a fifty person left? Um,
it's a um, it's still it's been going for like
pretty much for you, like since has been going for
almost consistently every Saturday night since since eighty six. I

(47:45):
believe they took some time off in the early two
thousands to repo the genetic opera. Remember that referencing I
have movies everybody remembers. Um. But yeah, they've been doing
it for like like thirty five years or something, right,
I mean, so it's and it's like really the only
movie of its kind that has this kind of following,

(48:05):
which which is like a gigantic accomplishment for the piece
and for the community around it. But yeah, I just
I haven't been in several years myself, and I'm just like, yeah,
where does it stand, especially our young younger people still
interested in going? Like is this still an entry point
for younger people? Because I don't know if a fourteen
year old today would be like, oh, here's here's the

(48:27):
best option in my area, you know what I mean. Uh,
we don't know. We'll find out, we'll get we'll take
some questions at the end. Let's talk about the actual
female characters in the phone. Okay, um, well, unbelievable that
you suggest that. I'm sorry, y'all go home. Let's start

(48:50):
with Janet. I suppose, as we already hinted at, she
is basically inconsequential to the plot, if you can call
it that, but love she does faint once during time
war she fainted. She shrieked, and then she faints again

(49:12):
when Frank conferred her first appear because say it with me,
now women fainting, And there's also when she doesn't faint
in something dramatic happens. She then shrieks and rushes into
the arms of the most recent person she's had sex with. Yes,
so that is another quality, right she She's written as

(49:33):
a fairly timid, like, oh Brad, I'm so scared protect
me type of female character, but she does have an arc.
She doesn't definitely. She starts by saying she doesn't like
men with muscles, and then she does yes, and then
has sex with a man with muscles who might be

(49:55):
a baby. We'll talk about it. Yes, here's what we know.
He has muscles. But then she's only like sexually liberated
after she gets raped by Frankenfurter, so that we'll get
to that. There are a few I mean, and this
is in no way defending the two consecutive rape scenes

(50:20):
that are played for jokes, but there are a few
things I thought that were like planted for Janet, planeted
for Janet, damn it uh, and where there are a
few moments where Janet is starting to have fun, like
at the party and at the time where I think
it's during the time where she goes like, oh, this

(50:40):
is fun and Brad's like, no, it isn't and she's
like okay. But there there are a few times where
Janet wants to participate and her fiance, but where her
fiance is like, we don't like this, and Janet kind
of you calibrates and it's like, okay, okay, I'm not allowed.

(51:02):
Does that mean that Brad is basically cal Hockley and
that Rocky is Leonardo DiCaprio slash Jack Dawstin's is Titanic?
Yes it does. We both have red hair and there's
a ship there's either sinks or blast off into space.
I'm willing to explore this, yes, but but yeah, like

(51:26):
it is hinted at a few times that Janet is
more receptive and like, is I mean hornier. She also
insists on going with Brad when their car breaks down.
He's like stay here, I'll go find help, and she's like, no,
I'm coming with you. She pushes against him in very
subtle ways, but she does push against what he wants

(51:48):
a few times. But at the beginning when he says no,
we don't do that, she obeys, and I would also say, like,
you know, I don't necessarily want to give like the
movie too much at it in this direction, but I mean,
I do think we are kind of supposed to be
watching parodies of nineteen fifties b movie like cute team Couple,

(52:10):
So you know, I don't the reason I don't want
to give it too much credit in that direction because
I feel like at the end of the day that
it doesn't have much to say about them. It just
kind of like it presents them and it's like these
like I don't know, it does not he to say,
but like it's like, I do think we are watching like,
you know, archetypes of like characters and not not necessarily

(52:30):
like but no fans for Geno Brian maybe not the
most like well developed predimensional characters logging in right now
like how dare you? Yeah? I was reading some similar
an analysis. There was a visa reference later by a
queer writer named Ronnie Baker, who did a fair amount

(52:50):
of research into the references this movie is making, uh,
most of which have not survived the test of time
that we would be able to pick up on them.
But basically the queer coded sci fi movies that came
out in the fifties and sixties and into the seventies
that kind of influenced and made this movie what it
was in some ways, um that are kind of left out.

(53:12):
And I think that the meat loaf character is also
supposed to be a reference to like fifties like you know,
James Dean biker boys right right, and then him getting
like killed so abruptly. It's supposed to be, but we
don't know, but it's a metaphor. It's like basically like
if you're watching like like date movie, like it's in

(53:35):
thirty years, you're just gonna not know where all these
references are. Yeah, you're like, oh, reference equals comments, got it?
Uh what you were saying about the Oh that that
was all I had to say on on it for
the moment. But yeah, there's there's there's more to come
with that one. But basically that there in b movies specifically,
there were some characters that made more explicit challenge to

(53:59):
je Under that seemed to have influenced Frankenfurter's character that
have just kind of been because they were the movies
or kind of like forgotten comic books lost to time,
but there is a clear history of like influence that like,
like this movie didn't come out of nowhere. Y gotta

(54:21):
got it. Should we talk about those rapes scene? I
mean we've got it in some must Thanks for coming
out tonight, everybody. I love to just get a room
of people and just be like, let's talk about those
rape scenes. But we must, we must, we must. Um.

(54:41):
So what happens here in this narrative is that first
we see Janet in bed, someone who she thinks is
her fielce say comes in and starting kissing her, and
then suddenly it turns out to be Frankenfurter in disc eyes.
She freaks out, She tells him to stop, screams for help, says,

(55:06):
you tricked me. I wouldn't have and then Frank Confreter says,
stop it. Do you want Brad to see you like
this in a compromising sexual position, because he basically grabs
her legs and like kind of thrust his pelvis into yes,

(55:27):
um without doubt, placing the blame on her. And then
she says, like, what it's your fault, You're to blame.
I was saving myself. And then Frank Confreter responds by saying, well,
I'm sure you're not spent yet, and then suddenly her
attitude changes and then he is like kissing her again,

(55:51):
and then she's like, promise you won't tell Brad, and
then they presumably have sex. And this is supposed to
be for is a funny moment, yeah, And second, a
moment that is supposed to indicate, like you were saying, Caitlin,
a liberation in the character where this like pretty explicit assault,

(56:13):
very it's supposed to mean. And now she is open
to sexual experience because she was raped, which is pretty
clearly the opposite of what that is. A similar thing
happens in Cruel Intentions with the Selma Blair character. But yeah, basically,
I mean to break down this scene, she is assaulted

(56:35):
just by the mere fact of she thinks that Frank
Conforter is someone else, and then it's like the revenge
of the Nerds thing, and then she says no, no, no,
like denying consent, and then Frank Conforter is like, come on, though,
you'll like it, and then she's like contenticating that you

(56:56):
can be talked out, persuaded, and then he's like gas
lighting her and then suddenly she's into it, question Mark,
It's just kind of like this like idea of like
you know, like a like a no is just like
a yes that needs a little more negotiate. Like she
just you know, she doesn't know what she wants. She's

(57:17):
just waiting for like the right like guy to come
along and and and show her right. And the same
thing happens to Britten. And I think that like both
Janet and Brad are victimized by these scenes. And the
way that Frankenfurter's character is written is enforcing all these negative, negative,

(57:37):
negative stereotypes yes about you know, and it's it's hot.
I don't know exactly how we should be classifying Frekenfurter specifically,
but you know, just I say, will call him queer
and like, yes, just like all these like negative like
you know, negative stereotypes that exist about that have existed
about queer people in like you know sci fi and

(57:59):
horror movie is like really up until like very recently
yesterday and still but just yeah, like implying that by
I mean and again it's like not made explicitly clear,
but that by challenging the gender binary in any way
that Frank converter, is a predator, is a cannibal, is

(58:22):
like is a murderer, and and then conflating it with
anyone who challenges the gender binary at which is like
a problem that comes up again and again and again,
and even in this extremely iconic movie, it's very present.
Oh no, but I mean, I mean, like it extends
to like, you know, it's Buffalo Bill, This is like, yeah, yeah,

(58:43):
it's It's also that these scenes are like campy rape
scenes in a campy movie. I know, they're like it's right,
but it's fine, But like is it that makes it
all the more dangerous because the whole the scenes are
played for humor and for laughs, and it's like disguising

(59:07):
full assault in camp and which I sort of am
of the mind of. Like that is almost like the
most insidious dangerous way to do it. That If you
can play a scene like that and make people laugh
with it, that's a very potent dangerous thing we co
do for sure. Um and is not something that has

(59:27):
been challenged as much as I mean it was genuine.
I mean I think that the first time I saw
that when I was fourteen, I didn't know what to
make of it. But everyone was laughing, and so you
recalibrate to be like, Okay, I guess that's funny. I mean, yeah,
I mean I saw it as a like I think
I saw that scene in a very like you know,
tens of levens. I saw it pretty young age, and yeah,

(59:51):
it just it just kind of like gave me this
idea of like, Okay, this is like a normal, acceptable
excemple thing. My parents did not only let me watch
Fox at such a young age, but yeah, yeah, yeah,
so so that I mean, no one comes out of
those scenes. I mean it's just like it's on every
level it does not hold up. No, no, uh. The

(01:00:14):
most that it does, I guess is like sort of
solidifies Frankenfurter as like by or maybe even pan sexual.
So it's not good representation of queerness on screen, but
it's there. So that's confusing to grapple with. Yeah, well,

(01:00:37):
I mean I feel like that sort of goes into
the the larger conversation about Frankenfurter in general. So let's good,
let's get into that. I mean, there's truly where to begin. Um, yeah,
I guess I'll start on the lighter side of the
conversation and UH, talk a little bit about Tim Curry,

(01:00:59):
who plays part who kind of I mean, it's it's
we're we're in an era where so few people hold
up as people, much less people worth admiring, and Tim
Curry it seems to generally hold up as a person,
which is great, Um, Tim Curry. So, what I wasn't
aware of prior to like researching for this episode was

(01:01:21):
that Rocky Horror was a stage show first. So Tim
Curry had already been playing the party originated the part
of Frankenfurter Uh in UH nineteen seventy three, played it
in London, played it on Broadway, and then was one
of the few cast members that also played it in
the movie. UM, and so had a good understanding of

(01:01:42):
this piece based on my research. This was not the
first time that Tim Curry had played around with gender
in his uber. He had also been in a play
called The Maids in nineteen seventy one, where he played
a sado massochistic female maid named Solange would Love to
See Sho. So Tim Curry already had a history of

(01:02:05):
having an interest in playing with gender UH and his
performances and is still very much stands by the legacy
of Rocky Horror. And so this is a quote from
OH five in an interview with Terry Grows where he
says that he views Rocky Horror to be quote a
rite of passage and adds the film is quote a

(01:02:27):
guaranteed weekend party to which you can go with or
without a date and probably find one if you don't
have one. And it's also a chance for people to
try on a few roles for sides, you know, figure
it out, help them maybe figure out their own sexuality unquote. Um.
And he's remained pretty involved in the Rocky Horror community
to the point where he was the narrator in the

(01:02:48):
Laverne Cox stage adaptation that was on Fox in So
uh yeah, Tim Curry, Now let's get into the harder
stuff A well. I I thought that because the only
real serious attempted update at this material, because it is

(01:03:08):
in some in a lot of ways kind of un
updatedble yah. A real example against reboot culture because it's
like some material it's just like it's so in the
DNA of it. But this was rebroadcast is one of
the like broadcast Broadway shows in sixteen, and Frankenfurter was

(01:03:28):
played by Liver and Cox And I know you've done
some research into this as well. I have some quotes
from her that I thought were really interesting. Well, I
think and I think this might be what you're getting too,
but like at least in terms of what she had
to say about like, you know, Frankenfurter and their identity. Um,
she talked a lot about it. The fact that you know,

(01:03:49):
she as a character as a person identifying as like
a like you know, a quote unquote like trans sexual,
transvestite like that. That was like of the language and
the level of the language a person a person like
that would have like at the time, at the time
the playteam, at the time the movie came out. So

(01:04:11):
you know, it was kind of like with frankin fur
you're kind of looking at a character like bumping up
against the walls of you know, just of understanding that
the culture had at that time, and that's how they
were defining themselves. Um. And you know, it would probably
be a you know, a very different character if they

(01:04:33):
were written today. But I think there's still kind of
the idea that you know, you honor how they saw
themselves back then, because that's you know, we still want
to honor that and observe it, and I guess if
that makes sense. Yeah, so I totally agree. I I
it's so like what served to me because I tried
to go through a little bit of the because it
seemed like people like it wasn't like a huge event,

(01:04:54):
but people enjoyed it. It was generally well regarded. Victoria
Justice Victor Jealousy plays Janet, you know, like we love it.
Tim Curry plays a Narator, the Verne Cox is Frank Conforter.
You know, it's like, I feel like, as far as
an attempt at an update, they did, but they're good.
But what I thought was interesting was when Laverne Cox

(01:05:16):
was doing interviews about this project, Um, she was talking
a lot about, I mean, when we've talked about this
in the on the podcast, a fair amount of pressure
on a specific actor to represent their entire community in
every part they play. And Laverne Cox kind of spoken
on this to an extent when she was talking about this,
because she recognizes in interviews that this is not the

(01:05:39):
most up to date of the moment park at play,
but she's acting and and and sort of the pressure
that she is one of the only prominent trends of actors.
Working to always be representing not just her own work
but just of everyone is an enormous pressure. So a
few quotes from her that she that she said when

(01:06:01):
this came out was quote to call a trans woman
a transstite in is very offensive. But as an actor,
I don't play roles based on politics. This is just acting.
I think of all the male identified actors who have
played Dr Frankenfurter on stage over the years, I don't
think any of them identified as transvestites either. People are

(01:06:23):
confused about trans identity anyways, but hopefully we can have
a discussion about it. Um. So that was just like
the little bit of what she said when she played
this role that I thought was interesting, And I think
that's I mean, you know, kind of like what I
get from Like the heart of that is, you know,
like why this is like Frankfurter, you know stuff aside,
like is like a fun like role to get to play,

(01:06:44):
Like it's a fun like character to live in, especially
for like that the big number, and it's you know,
it's I understand the desire to be like I don't
constantly want to be like defined by the politics surrounding
my identity. Some times, and I just want to like
have fun in a role sometimes I just want to
you know, like act and seeing and like have play

(01:07:06):
a big, campy character. And I think she has that.
I totally think she has that right as a performer. Absolutely. Yeah.
So that that was like one thing that was just like, like,
what what an extreme pressure put under? That would be
put on very few other working actors to represent everybody

(01:07:26):
at once. Um so so yeah, I mean, and and
then there's the troops we were discussing earlier, which was
just Frankfurter presenting a queer identifying character as literally every
negative stereotype I can think of, down to cannibal, which
I don't even normally think about. It also took me
a few views of this movie to be like, oh,

(01:07:48):
they're eating meat. Loof, like I'm not the meat. Then
that would have been way chiller. But they were eating
the famous musician. Did they but catch up on him? Though?
That's how you eat meat love. I believe, Yes, I
actually believe Frankenfunter puts me catch up on him. Yes,

(01:08:10):
it's so it is very as well as like portraying
Frankenfurter is very very spiteful and jealous and vengeful and
violent and just really everything in the book. But but
what the arc that was pointed out by the writer
Ronnie Baker that I wanted to point out that was

(01:08:31):
sort of pulled from that legacy of B movies and
comic books with characters challenging gender that came before it.
And this also sort of ties into and I haven't
done the deep research necessary, so dragged me a few must.
But the where the place that movie codes were at
in the nineteen seventies, we're at a very in between

(01:08:51):
place where the extremely rigid codes of like Doris Day
end up being a wife and wifeing rules like that
has fallen away, and now there's more room for for
more challenging material but still with restrictions. And Rocky Horror
is kind of a good bottle example of that, where
we are allowed to love enjoy in spite of the

(01:09:16):
fact that there's a lot of negative stereotypes being portrayed.
But but people love Dr Frank Confer there like he's
the center of the movie. He's the most remembered character,
and so we're allowed to have this character front and
center as long as as the movie plays out. This
character is punished for their transgression at the end, which

(01:09:37):
is what happens when riff Raff and Magenta come back
and they zapp him and he dies and it's very tragic.
And that was sort of where where the narratives stood
in terms of how queer characters can be portrayed. Yes,
and uh and also like you know, I think, like, um,
I bring this zap Columbia. Columbia dies too in that scene.

(01:09:58):
And you know, I feel like lot of the kind
of the way like trans like specifically like trans women
are portrayed in in media in general, but specifically in
horror films, they are you know classically like the Kill
like you know, the Villain Sleepway, Sleepaway Cam, like uh,
the Brian, the Brian to Palmer movie with Mike Caine,

(01:10:21):
Dead Kill, Kill, Sleepaway Camp, the Seed of Chucky like um,
and my God. But like all those things kind of
like come down to I feel like it's like it's
not just the trend. It's not just like specifically like
trans women are villains. It's that there's something I feel

(01:10:42):
like if there's something innately like duplicitous and villainous about
like women, and that's and what and then and therefore
like what could be like more like band that wants
to take on those qualities because like if you like
watch like like I'm gonna use a seed of Chucky
at dress to kill as my two private examples, but

(01:11:02):
there's a lot of examples of this of where it's
like presented is very binary, Like the character has a
male side and a female side, and it's always in
those movies, it's always like the female side is the
one that is like doing the killing. Um, so, you know,
and I think that like plays out in the mote
in in Here where it's it's not just like Frankenfurter
that is, you know, it is kind of villainized for

(01:11:25):
kind of messing with the gender binary a little bit.
But you know, like Columbia is a you know, it's
kind of like a hysterical, like very like jealous woman.
Like she's like driven pretty much entirely by jealousy throughout
the entire film, you know that, and no one like
you know, like it's kind of hard to keep track
of what her relationships are because just like there's like

(01:11:46):
multiple times where she bursts out and she's like I
was in love with you, and you're like who are you, um,
but like she's another I feel like, you know, she
is punished for that as well. At the end. Something
that because I always think about at least like transphobia
specifically towards like trans women trans women, is that it's
it's just a it's also just you know, massa, it's

(01:12:07):
just it's just misogyny in another form. Yeah. And and
then I mean, just even based off of you talking
about that, I mean, there's really not anyone who presents
in traditional men's clothing who has made out to be
remotely bad in this movie where they're mostly victimized. Where
with the meat Load character coming out in the like

(01:12:28):
traditional mancho James dean biker outfit, hacked a death immediately
he's victimized. The scientist is also the rival scientist is victimized,
Brad is victimized. Where and then it's made out that
Frank Conferter, like the characters that present female like whether
that be Frank Conferter, or that the Janet being like

(01:12:52):
feeling welcome to have sex well in audience full of
people thirty years later screaming sled her like they are
more are aggressively punished by the narratives that makes a
lot of sense. Oh boy. I mean, just to touch
on a few of the other female characters, not that
there are many, but um comb Magenta is riff Raff's

(01:13:19):
sister slash lover question Mark um Like that whole storyline
is she's pretty sidelined. Like there's a few scenes where
she's like talking to Columbia and then like but never
really doing anything. Or the only scene where she's talking
to Columbia is the scene that is the Bectel test

(01:13:42):
mind funk of this movie, where it's Columbia and Magenta
talking to each other as they're watching a TV screen
of with that clearly without consented Janet Janet and Rocky
is a baby is a born sexy yesterday? But yeah

(01:14:02):
it's true, which is a subversion that I like sometimes
that people like I'm subverting the troupe. I'm like, okay,
so you're just hurting someone else, cool, good for you.
But like they're they like Columbia Magenta are watching and
you know, unconsented twitch stream of Susan Saranda during her

(01:14:24):
high school soprano like catch me. So they're watching people
funk without their consent and making fun of them, and
it is the it doesn't but we'll get there. But yeah,
I mean, I guess my point is like Magenta truly
doesn't really matter to this story at all. I mean,
I'm sure she's a beloved character, but like even when

(01:14:47):
like mostly it seems like riff Raff has decided like
I'm going to overthrow this mad scientist and you know,
kill him and then take oh like fly this ship
out of here. You know, Magenta is very sidelined in
that scene, which I think is partially because Richard O'Brien
is like film me, I'm ready for my close to

(01:15:09):
an actor. But yeah, I mean, I think overall the
movie doesn't care very much about its female characters. And
I also viewed Colombia being another person who sort of
falls dead at the end of the movie to be
that the only people were I mean, Frankenfurter's character. I

(01:15:32):
would say, it's like kind of inconsistent towards the end.
Where towards the end, I think that Frankenfurter's song has
become very sympathetic, where uh, you know, he's singing don't
dream it be It and is singing about you know,
like challenging things. Oh yeah, I mean I will say
like as a kid, like no, like very few like
lines and songs spoke to me as much as like

(01:15:54):
whatever happened to Fayray that delicate satin drape frame as
I something like I started to cry because I wanted
to be dressed just the same, and like that lyric
means like I'm not gonna hear but that, but that
like lyric, like that is so sympathetic towards like what
I felt like myself going through at that time, and

(01:16:15):
like to hear it has expressed very lovely. I think
that it is such a lovely expression of of what
I felt and what that character is feeling. And like
I don't know, I just I yeah, it gets very
he gets very sympathetic at the end. Yeah, he really doesn't.
In those last songs, they're very beautiful and they're very honest,
and they are not the cannibal murderer of forty five

(01:16:37):
minutes ago, certainly, And it's only then that Frank Inverter
is killed, when when he's expressing his most like concise truth,
as well as Colombia, who I think is a reference
to a movie company, uh being being the only one too.

(01:16:57):
I mean female character, so shriek out in his defense.
But she's the only person besides Rocky who expresses upset
at his being killed, and so she's killed and Rocky's killed.
And because Janet and Brad and Dr Scott are the
bystanders who said nothing, they get to go on and

(01:17:19):
live their lives. And that feels like kind of sending
a I don't know how intentional it would have been
at the time, but it does sort of seem to
send a message of like, the people who stood up
for the one character that expressed their truth at least
at the very end, Uh, go down with that character.
And that my academic So yeah, that those are those

(01:17:47):
are my thoughts on Frankenfurter. Yeah, Wow, there's there's just
so much. So I think that there's a little bit
to be said about Brad here where I mean, I
think one of the few things that I am like,
yeah sure about the live culture of the movie is
shouting asshole at Brad because he is an asshole. Uh

(01:18:07):
we're at the beginning. I like that they're kind of
satirizing the expectations of like the traditional like sis Head,
White couple of this time where there it does it
does seem like it's trying to be implied at the
beginning that they're only getting engaged because they feel like
that's what they're supposed to do. They're at a marriage
they you know, Janet is like, oh, I need to

(01:18:29):
get married next, and then Brad like, okay, like his
that's the whole vibe damage and she's like, um, well,
even like the choreography, it's just like he's like saying it,
but he's like physically like removing himself from it. It's
like it's a darting away. Yeah, and and and so

(01:18:49):
I mean, and I'm going to just kind of remove
the assault scenes from this analysis because those seem to
be kind of a thing unto themselves that aren't dealt
well well within this movie. But in general, uh, Brad
seems to be this character that is acting on what
he thinks he is supposed to be doing. He is
completely almost acting on like what the expectations of a

(01:19:10):
quote unquote man at this time should be doing. And
then we see him and Janet at the end when
they're unstatuified question mark um, you know, and they're all
they're all wearing the frank confurter um. Why can't I
think of the word. Yeah, they're all wearing the uniform

(01:19:32):
basically at this point, and they sing about how they
feel liberated, and that leads into dunk dream it be it,
And I do like the idea of where that arc goes.
I truly detest that a jokey rape scene is part
as one of the main plot points that helps them
again to that place. But taking I mean, one of

(01:19:54):
the I thought the more effective commentaries of this movie
is taking that that very trope couple that's like, I
guess we're getting married. I guess we love each other,
and then taking them on this journey and ending them
with like Janet saying that she has all this new
sexual confidence and that she feels like a new person,
and Brad doing that really kick that made me horny

(01:20:17):
when I was little, the very spinny yeah, not full kick,
and then the shutter is it okay? But like but again,
that also implies that the queer characters are there to
further the straight character's narratives. So there, there's there's just

(01:20:41):
there's truly every problem. Indeed, Yeah, Brad is an interesting
underwritten character, much like every character in this true I
don't know if I have that much else. Does anyone
else have any other final thoughts? Not really, I mean

(01:21:02):
I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure that there's stuff we're missing here.
Uh you know, uh, we're all watching this together. Last
night I was like, I love meat loaf, and then
I googled meat loaf politics, and now I don't. Yeah, yeah, sorry,
I propose we can all still listen A bad out
of Hell. But yeah, I don't google meat loaf politics.

(01:21:27):
He is addicted to Mitt Romney. Yeah, yeah, to him,
the main Romney. Yeah, it's it's nasty and boring. So yeah,
there we go. Shall we take a few moments for
some audience questions comments? Story? But oh well, actually I

(01:21:52):
have a I have a friend here. Uh and she
was like a pretty active part of like a Rocky
You were in the Rocky Horror scene, right, Kate, my
friend Kate Rap Hi, everyone to give my friend Kate
wrapped a hand like you have like a bicoastal like
Rocky Horror story. Rights. Yes, yes, yea Kate rap my

(01:22:15):
righting partner comes to our show at some point. Yeah,
it's at some point. Okay, so I'll make this really quick.
But I did go to the like the new art
shows in high school because I grew up in the
South Bay not too far from here, and I remember
being like seventeen and thinking that Rocky was super hot.

(01:22:38):
I mean, like the guy who plays Rocky is just
like an icon in any Rocky Horror performance, like, and
I saw him after the show, and I don't know
how it happened, because I did get like probably black
out drunk, which is also like a weird part of
the Rocky Horror live show culture, like they like want
young children to get very drunk. It's very weird, like

(01:23:02):
you're back. Yeah. So I was like very drunk, and
I made out with Rocky, like I think, just in
front of the theater like at the New York Like
we didn't go to a bar or anything afterwards. So
I was like, this was the highlight of my life.
I was like seventeen. I got to make out with
Rocky and then he takes his wig off and he
looks very different, and I was just like, this is strange,
Like I'm feeling something different now. I was, You're a

(01:23:26):
real human, this is not the same anyway. Um fast forward,
I go to college in New York like a year later,
and he's like doing a guest slot at the like
Chelsea in New York like version of Rocky Horror. And
I made out with him again, So I mean I
with Rocky twice. It's the height of my sexual conquest.

(01:23:51):
And I think he's like a Trump supporter now, so
he like sucks. What is I think he's like, really
he's really be it might have been meat load. Oh
my god, thank you for sho you feel slightly guilty
because like when I when I asked, you, like, come

(01:24:12):
tell the story. It's gonna be really fun, and then
I was I did not also say like we're gonna
be talking about rap scenes for like minutes. Build enough
to the questions comments, any thoughts from from anyone? Yeah,
oh yes, and the person who has not seen Rocky
Horror before, I just want to know which role Alfred

(01:24:34):
mull Thank you so much. Drasing Well, I think if
we're under selling his talents, which we never should, uh,
he would play an excellent Brad. It would bring you know,
not to not to downplay Berry or his kicks, but
you know, couldn't bring a lot more. But you know,
he could have brought a lot more to that role,

(01:24:55):
I think. But Ultimately, I think that we should have
had him playing Rocky Horror, Like we really need a
British beefcake in that role. Um, and not an American model.
Is there anyone? I mean he also could have play River.
I mean he could have played literally anyone in the
movie nowadays. He could be like, like, well, I think
I could see him as the criminologist. Obviously he's in

(01:25:18):
Frozen two. He is. Yeah, another reason to see Frozen two.
I know, well, Alfred Billio is in it. He I mean,
as usual, any role will do, But I feel like
Tim Curry has to play Frank Confurter. That's the only
like normally I will displace any actor in favor of

(01:25:38):
Alfread Billina. But I do think that Tim Curry will
stay h and Alfred Billina would not be like I mean,
as we know, he's our friend. He's our friend, he's
not a diva. He won't be like I can't believe
he would say, I'm just thrilled to be here. Yeah
that's true. Um yeah, but started going off of what
he was saying about the pressure to get teens drunk.

(01:26:00):
That is one thing that I didn't mention in my
discussion of the community of there have been issues with
the upside of the community is that everyone is welcome
regardless of age, so you have young teens coming into
the community. The downside of that is that there are
pictures posted of scantily clad teenagers without their consent, alcohol

(01:26:21):
being passed around to them, and a lot of sexual
pressure being put on young people without any regard for
their age. So just a fun thing me love, Yes,
he's alive or do we have any other com questions
or commute? Jumping off from the discussion of trans women

(01:26:47):
being the villains also psycho yes, yes, drasticill is, terror
is terrible and the complete something changed. I'm sorry, but
spirit Halloween. Um, I think it should be discussed whether
or not Frank comes scaps. I no one has ever

(01:27:08):
wanted to bring this up before. People are usually upsetting, horrified. Okay,
so let's open the floor here Frankenfurter. When Frankenfurter comes,
we usually have this conversation and regards to Beetle'll just
pull let's up in it up to Frankenfurter. What the
material that has come with it? I think it would
be like, no, well, well we're not the thing that

(01:27:30):
bothers me is that people are like, it's not scaps.
It's for sure scaps. But even for even for Frankenfurter
Halloween characters comes scaps. Okay, it's cannon. Okay, it's cannon.
But the question where or dry he's well, he's an
a like you know, he's an alien, so like we
don't know what his internal internal like biology is like

(01:27:52):
you know what kind of what organs he does or
doesn't have, So like, yeah, I think like I think
he comes from a race where anybody comes scabs. Yes, okay,
but are they are they dry? Um, they're wet? Yeah,
team wet scat, you're dry the wet they're usual. I

(01:28:15):
am always team dry scap. Imagine the card of the
deck of cards literally beetle juice comes dry scabs like yeah, yeah, yeah,
just like like like a machine gun, yes yeah, just
a one scab after another and then wet scabs. I
can't say it enough. Is a laser jab printer printing
a full color? Okay, we had some other we got

(01:28:38):
to change something, other questions, other comments, Yes, come come
on down. Just another quick thing. At the beginning of
the film, when at the wedding scene, where the car
drives up and on the side of the car it
says like just married and like shaving cream, and right
below that it says she just got hers. Now tonight

(01:29:01):
he's gonna get his, which is very iggy. Yes, yes,
thank you for pointing that out. I guess that's like
commentary on how like, oh, this is how straight people be,
but I don't even know I think that. Yeah, like
it has a comment on like women want marriage, men
want to just that you know that bridal party. Don't

(01:29:26):
put that much on the car, right yeah, your friend's relationship,
that's not your jobs per funcing on the bride's friends friends.
To make no mistake, this couple is problematic and all
the expected we are going is goodbye. We're gonna use

(01:29:47):
this in the chance to sub tweet them. But I
also feel like that opening sequence with like the wedding
and everything is like, oh, look look at these fucking
normies and their heteronormativity. Wait till you get to the
castle and that's when things get cool and fun and
you get hosted and then also you will be assaulted.

(01:30:08):
Um so than you know, problems winning. Uh, well, does
the movie pass the Bechdel test? No, no, it does.
It does. There we was there, we was so there
was a there's the one question mark scene where we
were all sort of like, might it yes? The question

(01:30:28):
is is it saying someone's dialogue back to them or
in a mimicking tone countess dialogue? Like it's it's like
being like that is that that kind of dialogue? And
that's the Magenta Columbia scene that we have alluded to
you before, but ultimately for me because in this scene

(01:30:49):
it is two women with names talking to each other
about surveilling a heterosexual couple without their consented and making
fun of them. I say it doesn't pass right. I
mean the line goes because they're watching Janets sing a
song too Rocky about how she just had sex with Frankenfurter,

(01:31:13):
and Magenta says do you mean she, and Columbie says
uh huh. And that's the only scene I clocked where
women interact. Later, they do sing refrained like a touch
of touch me I wanted to dirty back and forth
to each other. That is then like just sn't like yeah,
which like passes I guess on paper. But the context

(01:31:37):
is like they're talking about the kind of hetero sex
with a man and just like, regardless the fact that there,
I mean, that would be maybe our wildest pass yet
that like watching people fucking without their consent and making
fun of them somehow passes. The still tasks like almost

(01:31:57):
regardless of what they're saying, Like even if they're watching
an unconsented feed of people having sex and being like,
so have you read the latest Roxanne Gay, I'd still
be like, I don't know that this passes. They're still
doing something that's very illegal, so I don't Yeah, I
I I don't think it passes from me. Yeah. Well,

(01:32:20):
Times have rated on our nipple scale um zeroified nipples
based on its representation of women, but all things considered
based on our entire discussion because there's value in this
movie like being kind of, you know, a gateway for

(01:32:40):
people who might be questioning their sexuality or gender to
kind of have exposure to something. This might have been
more true in decades past because now there is more
content available the focuses on queer narratives, but because it
does have such a big cultural impact. Um. But then

(01:33:02):
also the movie truly doesn't really have any vested interest
in any of its female characters. They impacted the plot
almost none, and I'm getting there. The prologue is, um,
I have to say like one and a half, I

(01:33:24):
was gonna say, is that too how low? Or too high?
Too high? The audience? O, my god? Stand thank you? Okay, fine,
I'll apologize again and I'll stand by my decisions. Okay,
thank you, thank you. I'm so like Coodness you're yelling

(01:33:46):
at her. There you guys. I'm also everyone is I'm
still dressed as brad Um. Okay, one and a half
nipples and I will give one of them to Tim
Curry and my half nimble to Susan Surrandon, but for

(01:34:09):
Thelma and Louise and not this movie. I'm also going
to go one and a half. I don't want any comments,
thank you. No, I'm gonna go one and a half.
I appreciate and still, you know, like I mean, it's
it's I'm glad that the Rocky horror cultural legacy exists.

(01:34:30):
I think that it has a ton of value, especially
in its time, and I think that it is like
more of a region to region influence than most of
the movies that we cover were Like I mean, yeah,
I mean in in some reasons, I would imagine that
Rocky Horror is still an extremely valuable resource of community
for people who are questioning or want to be involved

(01:34:52):
in the queer community to go to. UM. So I
am very grateful for its legacy. In terms of content,
as we you said, it's all fucking over the place. Uh.
It does not have a lot of regard for its
female characters. It is not a very thoughtful representation of
really anybody at all. UM very white movie as well,

(01:35:14):
extremely white movie. You only see people of color in
background shots, and they can't afford to bring the extras
back in every scene, so it is just it is
a mess. I am glad that it was successful. I
think this is a great example of a movie we've
covered that paved the way for better perspectives. Because this
movie had a one point four million dollar budget and

(01:35:37):
made one hundred times its budget at the box office.
It was extraordinarily successful and so for all of its many,
many many faults that we've discussed, a movie being that
successful and presenting queer culture in any way I feel
like does pave the way for uh, more qualified voices

(01:35:57):
and more progressive voices to take the lead. Because with
when it comes to you know, the capitalistic night where
we live in. If something makes money, people will give
those types of narratives more of an opportunity with different writers.
So I'm glad it exists. And uh and and one
and a half nippies for that and that alone. I

(01:36:21):
will give one to Tim Curry and I'm going to
give a half e too, Rocky because he was a baby.
He was a baby, and we didn't talk about that enough.
Born Sexy yesterday. Look up the trope. This is the
only male example we've recovered of it. Um. I think
both of what you said was stating very elegantly about

(01:36:43):
you know, the cult of the importance of the cultural
impact of the film and uh, you know, speaking to
someone who can relate to that, you know, to some extent,
it wasn't the most important or influential piece of you know,
queer media in my in my youth, um, but it
was still like it was still important to me there
for me at certain points that I agree with all that. Um,
But I do think, you know, it really seems like

(01:37:06):
this is a subculture for you know that I'd love
to sit to see stick around, but also like a
lot of subcult like you know, subcultures right now need
to be like reevaluated, you know, yes updated, you know,
we can find a better thing to what's the progressive
thing we can Yet, like Janet every time she comes

(01:37:26):
on screen, does exactly watch the Videl the Vicdel's cat.
Um they should all be pluns for your for your powers.
Um but um so yeah so I and I think
I like that their their voices within the space now
sticking up, trying to find the trying to find ways

(01:37:47):
to you know, bring bring you know, Rocky Horror for
as you know, messy and uh complicated a piece of entertainment.
It is, bring that culture, bring that community into you know,
into nineteen and beyond. And that's something you know, because
it would it wouldn't make me sad. It would make
me sad to think that like Rocky Horror just like

(01:38:09):
stopped existing because you know, I did a lot of
you know, this morning, I did a lot of research,
you know or not am I read like three wikipe
I read like three articles online. I did a ton
of research. Um but I like you know, found like
like um articles from you know, like little like colleges
like in the middle of the country and for them

(01:38:29):
like you know, like from like literally like this, like
this October, like a couple like a week or two
ago talking about you know, like you know, Rocky Horror.
You know, coming to campus is like this big deal
and it is like you know, they like one of
one of like two or three, like you know, queer
focused events they have every they have every year, some

(01:38:50):
pieces not even every year. So you know, I think
there is still like an importance and a you know
outside of maybe where we are, outside of our bubble,
like there's still a lot of like good community can do.
So long as it a key, it evolves, and you know,
um yeah, and I guess I would say I'm gonna
stay on the one and a half stars training and
say I'll give I'm gonna give a half a star

(01:39:12):
to Tim Curry and then I'll give one half to
the Magagina and one half Columbia. And for the very
cool normal activity of painting each other's toe nails. Yes,
which does so? I think we're talking to painting to
like painting your friend's house is a form of communication.
It is, yes, yes, we think about Oh goodness, well, John,

(01:39:38):
thank you so much for being here. Give it up
for John Ford. John Buss where can people follow you?
What would you like to plug? Tell us everything? Oh gosh, um,
I'm on Twitter and Instagram. Is Joan Hailey Ford I
have a If you're in l a uh Me and
Kate have a show coming up December twelve at the

(01:39:59):
UCB Theater. It's our two person sketch team Red and Yellow.
So please come, please come see that eight thirty UCB
K Which which theater? Is it? Sun Sat? You see
sun Sat? There you go? Yeah? Yeah, Scot, Joan and
thank you too, so so much for coming. Thank you
to the Ruby Theater. Thank you to Aristotle, all staff

(01:40:22):
of the Ruby is Thank you Jamie than you can.
Thank you for coming. Have a good night. There you
have it our live Rocky Horror Picture Show show. Thanks
again to everyone who came out. Thanks again to the
Ruby for having us. Don't forget about our final live
l A show at that location at the Ruby on

(01:40:45):
November nine, We're covering Home Alone. Don't miss it. Details
for that and other live shows that we do in
various locations can be found on places like bechtel cast
dot com, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. You can follow us
on those platforms at bechtel Cast also don't forget to

(01:41:05):
check out our Patreon a k a Matreon at patreon
dot com slash Bechtel Cast. A subscription gets you to
bonus episodes a month for only five dollars per month.
You can also visit our merch store at t public
dot com slash the Bechtel Cast for all of your
merchandizing needs, including some spooky designs like feminist icon Beetlejuice,

(01:41:31):
Team dry Scabs, Team wet Scabs, and his Wife. Other
than that, just go and do the time warp again
by

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Rocky Horror Picture Show with Joan Haley Ford