December 19, 2019 • 66 mins
Santa Claus falls off the Bechdel Cast's roof, and Jamie and Caitlin must now take his place by discussing Disney's The Santa Clause with special guest Grace Thomas, recorded live at Buntport Theater in Denver.
(This episode contains spoilers)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone. You're about to hear an episode that we
recorded live in Denver back in November. And speaking of
live shows, uh, we just wanted to take this opportunity
right at the top to tell you about a few
more live shows that we have coming up in January.
Starting with January twenty two, we will be in San
(00:22):
Francisco for SF Sketch Fest at the Gateway Theater and
we're covering the movie This Social Network. And then January
will be in New York for the Brooklyn Podcast Festival
at the Bellhouse and we will be covering Black Swan.
And finally on January will be in Philadelphia at Good
(00:45):
Good Comedy Theater and we will be covering The sixth Cents.
So a lot of dark and eerie movies on this
little tour. More details and ticket links are on our
website beckelcast dot com and click on the live tab
for all the information you need. The other thing we
(01:05):
have to mention on this episode is that at this
live show, we talked for so long about the movie
The Santa Clause that we decided to split this episode
up into two parts. So this is part one that
you're listening to right now, and we are releasing part
two tomorrow, so stay tuned for that. Until then, enjoy
(01:27):
part one of the Santa Claus On the beck Del Cast.
The questions asked if movies have women? And um? Are
all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Do they have individualism?
The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing it with the beck
Del Cast. Hi, welcome to the Beckiel Cast. Oh, we're
(01:52):
so excited. So we're we're in Denver, Colorado. Ever heard
of it? We're so give it up for yourselves for
coming out to night man. My name is Jamie Lofton,
my name is Caitlin Durante, and we are the co
host of the bettel Cast, the show you're currently at.
(02:12):
Did you know, by round of applause, who listens to
our show? Oh? And now for a moment of tension,
who among you does not listen to the bettel Cast?
No judgment. Brave, brave, brave, brave, brave, each and every
(02:34):
one of you, not allies? Okay, thank you so much.
Hates women? Wow? Incredibly you all hate women? Okay? Um, yeah, no,
thank you for coming. We we hope to convert you.
We're gonna what is that move? A clockwork? Orange where
you just know, that's kind of what this experience will
be like. Yeah, uh so if you don't know, we
(02:57):
talk about the representation of women in fees. We use
the Bechtel test as a jumping off point to initiate
a larger conversation. And the Bechtel test is a media
metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechtel. It's sometimes called the
Bechtel Wallace test. Yes, thank you, you're welcome, and uh.
A movie will pass the Bechtel test if two female
(03:19):
identifying characters with names speak to each other about something
other than a man, can we demonstrate? Okay, so this
is an example of an Academy Award winning scene between
two female Hi, Caitlin, Hi, Jamie. All good scenes start
like this, Kitlin, did you know that Santa Claus is
(03:40):
a woman? Oh? Wow, now you know? And seen it's
kind of like that. The best part of the Bechtel
test is it doesn't have to even be good. Writing
truly is a fair minimum metric, and so few movies
pass it. It's incredible. I think arian A Grande should
(04:00):
rewrite her God Is a Woman's Song as Santa Claus
as a woman. For the holidays, hasn't I stand for Ariana,
which is the most embarrassing thing about me. But she
has I think the horny ist Christmas album out of
all of the I mean, she has it's for all holidays,
(04:21):
but it's it's very it's like, whoa, you know, you
don't think you're gonna like turn on this music and
be like I need to have sex immediately, but you
just really gets you somewhere that you aren't expecting to go. Okay, yeah,
highly recommending are in a grande holiday catalog if you're
(04:42):
looking to spice up a relationship or if you're you know,
just out there looking for someone, just just turn it
all and people moths to a flame. Sure, I guess
hard and I think most of that past the Bechtel test,
assuming the sex you'll be having is not with a man,
so which is always for the best. So he said, yeah,
(05:04):
that's that's our that's what our podcast is. And now
we get to I think we've chosen what I think
is indisputably a feminist text. Oh yeah, it's really it's
genuinely really hard when we're doing holiday movies because none
of them are about women. Is truly alarmed. Um, Jamie
the Princess Switch on Netflix, starring Vanessa Hudgens. But we
(05:26):
already did that. We did, we did, and then we're
going to do with the new one, the Oh the
Night before Christmas, but night spelled with the case. It
will be a classic. I like that. Vanessa Hudgens has
just been like I am in charge of this gen
right now. Like she just is really take I appreciate
(05:48):
the take charge attitude. No one asked her to do it.
She just was like, there's room here, and she's right.
Her agents are probably begging her like please don't say
yes to this other one, and she's like, no, I'm
doing I'm doing this one for the story. It's so
I mean holiday movies. I have not to bring it up.
(06:10):
This is the time of year where the masses they revolt.
Because my unproduced screenplay, Santa University, still hasn't been produced.
It's been I wrote it in two thousand twelve. It's
five hours long. It's if you haven't it's a musical.
But the best part is it's about Santa University. Right,
(06:31):
so at university where Santa's go, Santa's of all very
inclusive university. Here's a twist. Only one Santa graduates a
year and the rest die. It's because it's a good
it would be people would lose their minds for this movie.
They don't just die, they kill each other. They kill
(06:51):
each other. I'm sorry. They don't die of like illness.
They kill each other. It's very violent. You can and
it can happen to anyone at any time. You know.
It's really and the lead character is I think the most.
It's just there there, you know what a woman went
at the end. A woman becomes the one true Santa,
which is great, but then also she has to be
(07:13):
killed at the end of the next year because that's
how Santa University works. Anyways, that's the movie we're discussing today.
Close very classic. We're discussing today is the Santa clause
uh Tim Allen vehicle. Very successful. Clap it up. If
you have seen this movie before, okay, and a round
(07:40):
of applause. For those of you who have not seen
the movie, Wow, are like listening to the Bechdel cast.
But I've seen this everyone. We were just talking about
in the lobby that I think that most people have
seen this movie, whether they like it or not. Like
(08:01):
it's a movie that is very hard to avoid. It's true.
I like everyone has seen it. I mean, I'm it's
a feminist text. I mean clearly. Well, let's bring out
our guests to join our conversation about this feminist text.
She's a Denver legend. She is. She's a very funny comedian.
She's written for ClickHole. Give it up for Grace Thomas. Hello,
(08:29):
thanks for being here. Microphone was on the chair and
not the floor. So Grace, tell us about your history
relationship with the Santa Claus. Yeah. Well, every time I've
seen listening to Clause movies for the first time, someone
(08:50):
has died. Oh well, like later, I thought the first
one with my as gonna say, what is this Santa University?
I saw the first one, in the second one with
my dad, and then he died a year after the
second one. Coincidence. I think third one with my cousin,
and she died this past summer. I'm sorry for It's fine.
(09:13):
I'm joking about. And I think it's in a deep
state sense. It's certainly all connected. I think it's definitely
connected in a deep state sense. And I questioned why
I haven't been compensated. It really does make you think, Okay,
(09:39):
so you've watched them the movie, you've seen all three.
I've seen all three. Has anyone else here seen all three?
This is a powerful mythos. This is more powerful than
I could have imagined. We have not seen. I think
I've seen all three at various I couldn't speak to
(10:00):
all three, but Grace, you can speak to all three.
I certainly can. I just rewatched the Anti Claus too,
like two hours ago, by coincidence, I had that scheduled
months ago, which in Santa Claus Do is the one
(10:23):
that if he doesn't get married, Christmas is canceled. R yes,
but it is also the one where a copy of
Santa Claus, a toy Santa Claus, is made, and then
he militarizes the North Pole, or so the movie would
like to suggest. But really the North Pole has already
(10:45):
been militarized because in the very first scene, Santa Claus,
like there's an oil plane going over the North Pole
checking for oil, and they have to like make sure
that this oil plane doesn't detect the North Pole, because
I guess their magic doesn't cover that in particular. And
(11:06):
Santa Claus pops up and he declares Elf Khan one
Santa Claus, not the toy Santa Clause tim Al in
real Santa Claus is enough in full military regalia with
medals and one of those floppy hats. The whole thing.
(11:28):
They were waiting for this day. They already had, the
pieces were in place. You know. It's like how people say,
like Jimmy Carter was anti war, Well he didn't know.
We've been waiting to talk about this is It's not.
It's not like he melted down. The takes, you know,
(11:49):
they were still there. So it's elfkn one, it's alf
Khan one. It's okay. The oil plane just keeps going.
And then flash forward a month later there's this we
see anti He's made all these toy soldiers and he's
going to attack all the world with coal. Oh okay,
(12:11):
it's eerily prescient considered considering that the Iraq War was
declared Mary a few months later. This is like Christmas
two two is just long enough for it to be
post nine and be like we have to get into
production right now exactly. That is alarming. I don't love it.
(12:34):
In Santa Claus movie, do they have like the alert
color system? They're Elf Khan four is green and then
it goes yellow, orange, red, red. I think it's good
(12:58):
they made this. I mean, I think it made it.
I mean this movie. I'm pretty sure ended that war,
didn't it. As a child, I don't think I would
have been prepared for the War to Rock if I
hadn't seen the Santa Clas because morn that that war
(13:21):
was declared. My mom woke me up at like five am.
It was like, honey, we're at war, and you were like,
what do you mean war? And then I already knew
and she's like, well, it's kind of like the Santa
Claus to exactly like sant Like, oh well, then Santa
Clas will get married and the conflict will be resolved,
(13:42):
and sure, okay, and then Santa Clas three is Martin
short is Jack Frost, and that's all I remember. Yeah,
Santa Claus three. It's called the Santa Claus through the
Escape Class and it's a very controversial entry into the
cave because it's revealed in the Santa Claus three that
(14:04):
the Alps have just been gaslighting him the whole time. Wait,
how they've been telling Santa Claus for years that like
he's he's locked into Santa Claus. You know, like when
the first movie, they're like, Okay, you signed the contract,
that's it, You're Santa right. But it turns out in
the Santa Claus three the escape clause if he if
Santa Claus holds the snow glow, that m that David crumples.
(14:31):
If ye Bernard game to Charlie in the first movie,
if he holds it and says I wish I was
never Santa clause, time reverses, She's never Santa Claus. So
you could just undo the whole cannon. Yeah, that simple.
(14:52):
I would revolt. I would like, how do you say
that the sex one saw style revolts the whole all.
I would be like, this was this doesn't make any sense. Okay,
but is it a good movie? Um? You know I
went to it with my uncle and I hadn't seen
(15:12):
him in years, So it did a positive thing. That's
very good. One of my favorite. So the we were
talking about this backstage, but the budgets for the Santa
Claus movies are extremely influx where the first Santa Claus
movie that we're discussing today is stupidly successful. It has
a two million dollar budget and it makes almost two
(15:33):
hundred million dollars, which is why everyone has seen it
by law. Right, So the second one, they're like, all right,
people want this. They they triple the budget. It gets
sixties six million dollars for mostly for the military. I
would imagine they spend so much time in the North
(15:55):
Pole that one maybe doesn't do as well, but it's
still ripples. It's budget, but you know they're they're like, okay.
And then the third one, the Escape Clause, has an
eleven million dollar budget, and that's the last entry into
the cannon. Yeah for now, for now, you're right, you're right.
(16:17):
Is it really doesn't have much of an extended universe? No,
very contradictory. So, long story short, you're very into the
Santa Claus. Yeah, I'm pretty much into any movie I
saw with my dad before he died, pretty much. Okay,
and then you and you have the most comprehensive knowledge,
and I think a power. Yeah, I'm an oracle, yes
(16:43):
when it comes to the Santa Claus. All right, well,
we're so glad to have your expertise here. I have
a giant book that I've written all of this down
in the language only I can understand is just the
funniest person that gosh um, yeah, fucking follow that. I
(17:09):
grew up with this movie as a child. It came
out when I was eight, and I watched it a
lot from probably ages like eight to ten, and then
I haven't seen it since. How about you, Jamie, I've
seen this movie a lot of times. I think I
was too little to see it when it came out,
but I had seen all three of them. I think
I've only seen the second one maybe five times, and
(17:31):
the third one just the ones. Um, I've seen this
one so many times. Can I ask you to one
quick question? Did you ever see it with someone who
died later? Or is it just great? It may, in
fact be, but I think to maybe make you feel
(17:55):
more comfortable, I would kill my brother seen it with
anyone who died later? Yes, the curse is real? Your dad,
that's great, A good connection. We'll talk. I really liked this.
(18:18):
It was like one of my favorite holiday movies growing up.
I had a very nasty, nasty crush on Bernard the
el Hi right, Bernard the You're like white man with
dreads I shouldn't write, And then yet, like a moth
to the flame, I do. I keep going back. I
keep going back to him. I was looking for like
(18:41):
an oral history in this movie. I'm like, who was
the one that was like white guy with dreads right, Like,
it's just nothing about the character demands that I would
be shocked if it was written into the script. And
yet there he is, and I was like what I was?
I was really hot for Bernard and my mom. I
remember that Grace and I were talking about this earlier
(19:01):
we saw. I saw the first two where I definitely
saw the second one in theaters. I remember going because
it was I think an eight year lapse between the
first and the second and the first one, Charlie is
like he's like, you know, seven or eight, He's like
his cute little kid with a bowl cut. And my
mom did that horrible thing that mom's occasionally do where
he was like a teenager. And my mom leaned over
(19:23):
to me at the movie theater and was like, wow, right,
I had some young man. He's becoming. Like she was
just trying to force the narrative, maybe because she was like,
please stop drinking off to Bernard. She was really pushing
the Charlie North. But I wouldn't be tricked, and I
(19:43):
would I would still let Bernard go down. I mean,
I think Bernard looks very non binary. In my opinion,
I think he looks very like I think he looks
like a him lesbian. You know NB icon and nb
icon for sure. I just I just want to bring
the home. Yeah, Bernard is who I just want to
(20:04):
know hashtag who decided the dreads? But I yeah, I
really like this. Do you think that Bernard just got
the like David Krumholtz just got the last wig they had? Like,
this is how it works out a movie side. If
you come like, you get the last wig. Ok, this
(20:25):
is what you can like. And the worst part is
it's cannon because in the sequels he also has the dress.
They didn't need to be like an eight years later. Wait,
so if he's in the sequel in this world, the
elves are children and they don't age, but he would
have aged like eight. They do age, though, that's the
(20:48):
thing that's what angers me so much. But well they
age very slowly. They do. But like Curtis in the
third movie, I think is played by the same Curtis
as second Helf, he's a kid, and he's a kid
in the first one, right, Yeah, and then he's coming back.
I think it's the same actor in the thing. Wow,
good for him. But like in the first movie, Judy's
(21:12):
like I'm years old and then Tim Allen hits on her.
Yes he First of all, it's one of the grossest scenes.
It was that scene. You're just like, who is this for?
Because she's played by a child, and it's like, oh,
like nine, Like Yeah, when I was a little kid
(21:36):
and I first saw that movie, I remember seeing that
scene and be like, oh my god, I hope they
get married. This is the start of a wonderful story.
And people say media doesn't it is wild that Tim
(21:57):
full and flirts with a child. Yeah. And in my
memory when I hadn't seen it for a while, I
thought she was an adult. I thought she was like
the one adult. Let me see it again. And she's
the youngest of them all. Yea more of a child.
It's it's pretty alarming. Well, should I do the recap? Yes,
this is gonna be I mean, there's so much feminist
(22:17):
lord to discuss in this movie that Hi everyone, Hi,
I'm about to do the recap. But before I do,
I just had to sneak backstage in the middle of
the show. Because I'm just so excited to tell you
about Casper. I hope Jamie doesn't mind that I just
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(22:42):
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(23:04):
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(23:26):
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(23:47):
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(24:08):
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(24:30):
using promo code TBC at checkout. Okay, now, I got
to get back to the show. So here I come.
All right, So here we go. It's Christmas time. That's
what I wrote. Good starting, good Start than we meet
(24:50):
Scott Calvin. Two first names suspicious right, we don't never
trus a mama. Two first names Jack Ryan. Also Tim
Allen has. Tim Allen has two first names right, and
he sucks his hell. What does that show you? He
works at a toy company in the sales department. I think, um,
(25:13):
he is divorced. He and his ex wife X Laura Laura.
I was writing her name is Linda in all of
my notes because I feel like that's such a common
his wife name that I just phoned it in and
I was like, honestly, I was pretty close Laura. And
(25:35):
then they just break and they looked a camera like
you get the idea. We're not going to tell you
what her job is. So they have a son together, Charlie,
who spends Christmas Eve with Scott because his mom and
new husband Neil Neil Judge Reinhold, they're having dinner or
(25:55):
something and Charlie is not invited in some of the
most I think of my childhood, some of the most
effective in movie marketing of all time, when they go
to Denny's, because there were no Denny's near where I
grew up, and I was asking my parents for years,
what is Denny's? Can we go? And and then it
(26:17):
was like a big deal when we finally got to
go to a Denny's. And it's so horrible. It's the
sight many are you kidding Perkins? Okay, No, Denny's. Denny's
can Perkins ass any day? Have you ever been to
a Perkins? Wait? When I knew okay, the moment where
(26:39):
I'm like, you know what I'm doing okay in life
is when I would go to Denny's and be like,
I'm going to get off you know, the off the
two F six eight. I'm like, I'm gonna go, I'm
gonna go off the six menu. I was like, I'm
a millionaire. What I think the audience should know is
that Jamie, you and I go to Denny's together a lot.
And it was no but I was so oh, like,
(27:00):
I was so excited to go to Denny's. And then
I on the rewatch, I was like, oh, they really
were going for broke on this Denny's endorsement. Tim Allen
leans into the corn. He's like, it's an American institution, Denny's.
And then they have a horrible time back on that
first because not only does the Denny's hardly have anything
(27:23):
like that's true, Charlie goes in there. They want to igno,
but it's so busy and Charlie doesn't enjoy his time
at all. So, if the big wigs at Disney were
trying to promote Denny's with this felt they did a
horse ship job worked for you. I was like, I
asked to go for fourteen years after. I think it
(27:44):
worked for me because I really wanted to go to
Denny's for a long time too, and my mom would
refuse because again Perkins was an option. But they go
to They go to Denny's in it's It's great, yeah,
and we love Denny's. Here on the Betel Cast, someone's
(28:04):
gonna tweeted us to be like Denny's is problematic, and like, no,
you know, we know everything's the word and he's just canceled.
I take it back. Okay, So Scott is not the
most invested parent. He like puts in a little effort.
He burns the turkey. They go to the Denny's iconic
when he burns the turkey. Yes, I feel like there's
(28:27):
a in a mythical way, yere again again. I would
watch a ten hour loop of extinguishing. I take it
almost suggests that maybe there was some force was setting
him up. Do you think that Santa Claus targeted Scott Calvin.
(28:52):
It's like, I'm over this job. I think that any
person with the initials see they're like they're unnoticed. Sarah Connor,
Sarah Connor, think about it, Santa claus coincidence. I think
two things. Really what There's a shot when Santa's on
(29:16):
the ground after he's followed and at Scott and Charlie
are trying to figure out what to do, and there's
just one shot which doesn't look like any of the
other shots in the film. It's like this weird. I
went to film school. I say briefly that I did.
I didn't graduate, but so if you didn't, then that
(29:40):
must mean you didn't go twice to film school. Like
I don't like to bring it up, but I did
get a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. I
hate to mention it. Caitlin's addicted to flaunting her debt.
I think that's beautiful. I'm twenty thous dollars in debt
with nothing. Wow, I've got some good stories. Yeah, a
(30:04):
student observation. This is student observation. So there's this shot,
Santa's on the ground. It's medium medium shot. Okay, I'm familiar. Okay,
that's weird about it. But I don't know what it is,
but it looks weird. Okay, that's that's a medium shot
is the term I was prepping everyone for telling them
(30:28):
I went to build school. But but what happens in
it in the missinman is Santa like raises his hand
for a moment and goes, oh, yeah, very that was
(30:51):
I wrote that down. I'm like, was that the last
thing he did before he died? And so I think
it suggests that he'd show was like. I think it
suggests that he it was his choice. And and Caitlin
brought up something excellent on the drive here, which is
that we learned in the Santa Claus too, although I
(31:13):
guess we learned in the Santa Claus three but none
of it matters. But in the Santa Claus too, and
addgital clause is presented that unless you have a his wife,
Christmas is canceled, which means that the Santa who falls
off the roof and dies in the beginning of this
movie would have probably had a his wife. And where
did she did? She? Is her life force tied by
(31:36):
Santa and then she also died in that very moment,
Sarah or think about it? I like, I think her
name is Sandra Claus and she either died in that
moment or she just gets like austed. They're like, um,
your husband's dead, You're not welcome here anymore, and they
(31:56):
like ban her from the North Pole. We don't know
though where there should be an extended universe and we
should get a spin off a Sandra Clause. Brady is available, Yeah,
Sasha Baron comins, but I'm just looking up a list
of is that Stephen Colbert, think about it? Simon Cowell?
(32:21):
Who else do we go? If you're if your initials
in the audience? Thank you? Does anyone here have initials?
A C? One person? Okay, Santa show yourself. I can't
believe Santa came to the show. Thank you for coming
so exciting. Um, that's all Steve Coogan, alright, And finally
(32:47):
Cheryl Crow sure think about it. Santa Clause. She goes
to bed with her MONOGRAMD pajamas and then her kid
comes up to her like, wait a second, sorry, what's
happening in the movie. I don't even know. Um, clearly
there's not much for us to talk about, which is
why we're stretching. It's feminist Tim Allen pushing someone off
(33:08):
a rufus feminist. He doesn't know. I'm still trying to
process something you said earlier. I have to say you were.
You two were making fun of people with two first names,
and I would just like to quickly remind you that
my name is Great Thomas, and I'm not I went
(33:32):
to film school and i'd have had some respect. You
and Jack Ryan have my eternal respect. I'm so sorry.
Queen's Jack on the show with Jim from the Office. Yeah,
but this time he got a gun. All right, So
(33:56):
back to the Santa clause we were in in it too,
where he's truly okay. So they go to Denny's. They
talk about whether or not Santa Claus is real, and
Scott wants Charlie to believe that Santa is real, even
though he is an adult does not believe in Santa.
(34:17):
Now it's the middle of the night on Christmas Eve
and there arose such a clatter on Tim Allen's roof
and he plays. Charlie is like, he's really good in
the movies, Like it's a clatter he's and then he
grows up and my mom is like, whoa, but in
(34:37):
this one he's cute. Yeah, So Scott goes outside to
check on the clatter and Santa is on his roof.
He accidentally startles Santa Claus and he slips off and
falls off the roof and dies or progress does it
on purpose, it was playing. It's like such a hot take.
(35:01):
It's like how in the Dark Night Batman is trying
to get like Harvey Dent to like be the new
like crusader against crime, so that he doesn't have to
do it anymore. And I think that's the same thing
that's happening. It's probably a similar amount of people tie
throughout the course of the film. So Scott reaches into
(35:23):
Santa's suit and finds a business card that says, if
something should happen to me, put on my suit, the
reindeer will know what to do. So then he and
Charlie see the reindeer on the roof. They notice Santa's
body has now vanished totally fine, totally normal, and his
suit is still there though so and then a ladder appears,
(35:45):
suddenly arose such a clatter company still funny, still funny,
And they climb up onto the roof. The sleigh is
up there. They both get in it, and Scott's like
this is stupid, but Charlie's like, we that classic father
Son dynamics, and then the reindeer take off with Scott
(36:09):
and Charlie in the sleigh. They go to the next
house that was apparently on just the Santa agenda, and
Scott reluctantly puts on the Santa suit and the like
magical bag of toys takes him down the chimney, which
in some of the most cursed special effects you'll see. Yeah,
just like, let's render Tim Allen barely. It's so scary,
(36:33):
it's very alarming. I also did not notice until this
rewatch that the reindeer are like puppets. I thought as
a kid they were full on, real amazing reindeer actors there.
And then there's it's fart jokes for the reindeers close
up of hens and workshop making fart noises, and like, yeah,
(36:53):
that's what this. That technology was a metaphor. So he
goes into the next house. He puts toys under the tree.
This is the one where like the little girl is
there and he's like, funk off, little girl, yeah, fuck
you yeah, and she doesn't notice that her house suddenly
has a fireplace. Then it goes away that is the
second house, the second second Okay, I'm sorry you asked.
(37:19):
I didn't want everyone to get burned online, which happens
to us all the time. The first one has a
fireplace like usual, and the second one even though it
is an identical house there side by side, and they're
identical houses, but this other one doesn't have it, just
has a little pipe. Yeah, thank you for Santa. Santa
(37:41):
makes it work because I think the film very artfully
takes takes you into its mythology, step by step over
the big levitate him, and then you see the transmogrification,
not all at once. It's world building at its best.
(38:02):
I mean, folks, these are the writers of Space Jam.
They know what they're doing. Oh yeah, they know what
they're doing. They're skilled artisans. So Tim Allen what's his name,
Scott Scott and uh he and his son do this
over and over again, with house after house all night,
(38:24):
and then they finally are taken to the North Pole
where Santa's workshop is, and there are lots of elves,
their children, but they're a million yes. And then this
is when we meet Bernard. Did you did anyone else here? Also?
(38:45):
Think Tim Allen was hot? Because some people just say,
right here, I do in this movie as Santa Claus
to Santa Claus, Ship's sale that. Yeah, and you know,
(39:08):
I think that I kind of idolize him a little,
like not to Mellen as a person. But it's got Kelvin,
you know, the character. We've been we've been pretty critical
and the film is pretty critical of his parenting. Pretty
Santa Claus. But at least he's not a raging I
call it, you know, that's true, which is pretty good. Yeah,
(39:33):
I think that's maybe a low ball. I think it's
a perfectly adequate yardstick. Yeah, you know, and this is
not to be you know, like I'm in recovery. It's
like cool if you're an I mean, you know, I'm
not saying that you're a bad person if you're an alcoholic. However,
personal experience pretty hard to be a bad parent. If
(39:53):
you're a raging alcoholic, that's a tough one to pull off,
you know. Also, Charlie gets two houses. I had a
two bedroom apartment and a one bedroom apartment up this
is I mean, this is like yet another because we
we recently recorded an episode on Home Alone. Uh and
it's yet another like upscale like white family living in Illinois,
(40:18):
specifically in November and December. Like there's such a specific vibe.
Why are they always in Illinois? It was filmed Toronto.
Are people afraid of people thinking they're Canadian? Everything was
filmed in Vancouver and Toronto and they're like, no, it's Chicago.
You're like it isn't. That's okay, let's accept it. People
(40:40):
are evading taxes, right, yeah, Charlie, what is something? Well, Okay,
I guess we'll talk about it more in depth. But
I did like about this movie is like one of
It was definitely one of the first movies I saw
that like treated a divorced family as something that was
like normal and there wasn't a villain the story. It
(41:00):
was just like clear that these two people didn't belong together.
And then the mother got remarried and it was like difficult,
but it was okay and uh and like everyone loved
the child and like, I don't know, I thought that
was that didn't even like register with me. It's like,
oh that is cool. Yeah yeah, And like Charlie is
not like messed up from having divorced parents. No, now
(41:22):
he has a free therapist even you know, I remembered
them being harsher on Neil than they actually were, to
tell you the truth, they are surprisingly light on Napal.
There's like a couple of like things at times in
the film where he's like a little bit of feminate
and that's the joke. But beyond that, and you know
what I mean, that's bad Chrissy all the time. For
(41:49):
the most part, it's five. Yeah. I mainly remember the
sweater burn sweaterburn very very clearly, and I think I
just was like, oh, that must have happened a lot.
It just happens the once. And Neil is not a
villain in this story, Like he's misguided, but he loves Charlie.
He wants the best, and he doesn't he doesn't hate.
He's willing to work with Scott. I don't know. It's
(42:12):
generally frustrated with Scott's behavior. And wait, Scott is saying
he is Santa Claus, and that is a tough pill
to swallow. But if Neil had just used his doctorate
and thought for a second that sc this guy is
(42:33):
a doctor and he can't figure out that Scott's Calvin
equals Santa Claus, unbelievable. Also Scott Calvin hates mental health
because he keeps being like, Neil isn't a doctor, He's
a psychiatrist, but it's always like the most resistance against
mental health before you fully embrace, like you know what,
(42:54):
it's time. The film also seems very confused about what
a psychiatrist is because I've been to many psychiatrists. I've
never had a psychiatrist spent more than ten minutes talking
to me about like my feelings and like theory around psychology.
They're always just like I think that they I will
(43:14):
continue to give you well you dread, and I love
that for them because I need it right. But there, yeah,
I think that they thought that like a psychiatrist and
a therapists are the same thing. And then also a
therapist could gaslight a child and that's fine because there's
like that scene with Neil and Charlie. Were Neils like,
(43:36):
so you think your dad is Santa? And then like
slowly begins to ask these leading questions that lead up
to like, so what the fuck is your problem? Just
like Neil, you're doing a bad job. You're doing your
bad job. But before we it there, we're now in
(44:01):
minute about twenty of the movie. So they're now in
Santa's workshop and Bernard, who I guess is like the
head elf. He's like he he tells Scott about the
(44:28):
Santa Claus with an E. And this is the point
of the movie where you realize they came up with
the title first and then they reverse engineered a story
around it. That's when a bunch of like parents in
the audience I think they're smart, go oh, they figured
it out. But the Santa Claus states made me want
(44:52):
to be a lawyer. I'm a lawyer because of the
s didn't achieve that dream, but you did go to
art school a little bit. So the Santa Claus clause
states that if something happens to Santa Claus and he
(45:17):
dies after he's fallen off your roof, and you put
on his suit, you become the new Santa. I think
this is one of the most inventive pieces of I
p ever created. Who what SICKO? If you kill Santa,
then you're Santa. That's like a horror movie. It's almost
(45:39):
like this has to be a Crimson fairy tale, right it?
And it gets scarier as it goes on because in
the second movie it's and now you mus procure a woman.
It gets like scarier away to the west of the
North don't live with you for all your days? Wait
(46:02):
with her dreams? Who does he end up marrying? In
the second one? Does he rob a woman of her career? Yeah? What? What?
Who does he the principal of Charley's High school? And
then later she becomes a teacher in the North Pole.
(46:23):
Oh second, a second after in the North Pole. You know,
maybe she think I'm the superintendent of the North Pole.
Wouldn't be stopping her career of up. Also in the
third movie, we find out that yes, all elves look
like children, but there are also new elves being made
(46:47):
that are also look like children made born. Maybe I
was like construct somehow I know. It seems from the
second scene to Plase movie, it seems that it seems
at the North Pole doesn't have the ability to clone,
right because he clone and would have had to make
(47:14):
a toy Santa, they could have just made a cloone.
Santa suggests that yes, these child alves, these actually young elves,
that they were born, they were born and from where
this is why we need a fourth movie, been saying
it for fourteen years. How are the elves Born. How
(47:38):
does it were? I don't know what's happening, all right.
So Scott he he doesn't want to be the new Santa,
and but it seems like he has no choice because
(48:00):
of this binding contract. And Bernard tells him that he
needs to report back to the North Pole next Thanksgiving
and until then he can just kind of live his
normal life. Yeah, Bernard will hold it down. He's like,
don't worry January through October. I'm daddy, thank you. The
(48:27):
more we talk about it, I think less invested I'm
getting in these films. The thing is a huge plot
point of the second film is they make the Toy
Santa because Santa doesn't trust Bernard to hold down the
fort for literally twenty eight days, because that's how much
(48:48):
time he has to find a wife. It's just twenty
eight days. That's like the same plot as the Princess Diaries.
To also pretty much it is it's like, if you
don't get married this month, the country split. Let's get back. Sorry,
it's quite all right, So what's let's see what's happening
in the Santa Claus. The Scott wakes up in his
(49:12):
bed and he thinks the whole thing was a dream,
but Charlie insists that it was real, and his mom
and stepdad and teachers and everyone in school concerned. He
has the pajamas, so he knows, somewhere deep down you've
done that it was real, right, But he's in denial
about it. He thinks he just had a weird dream
(49:33):
about flirting with a kid. Little does he know that's
the only night of his we see it's there, like
maybe this is a thing. That's so everyone's concerned for Charlie.
And then some changes start happening. I would call this
the midpoint of the movie with my master's degree. Like
(49:59):
Scott start scanning weight, his hair starts to turn white.
He grows a beard that like even right after he
shaves it, it grows back. Uh, And he's looking more
and more like Santa Claus, which freaks out Laura and
Neil because they think that he's doing it on purpose
to convince Charlie that he's Santa Claus, which would be alarming.
(50:25):
Put yourself in their shoes, yes, well, but their sweater
if you will. This I mean, this sequence is I
think one of the most iconic sequences in film is
I think, like so many films have tried to copy it,
for instance, Evan Almighty and others. My favorite movies Almighty.
(50:52):
And so the parents are concerned earned and they petitioned
to get soul custody if Charlie and take away Scott's
visitation rights. Um. But then Scott shows up to Laura
and Neil's house anyway, I think on Thanksgiving after he
(51:13):
has visitation rights revoked, because you know, men be showing
up places, men be showing up wistfully at the pane
of glass. At least he's not making threats. And again,
at least he's not a raging alcohol I mean, everyone,
please Scott Calvin's graces hero, So let's be gentle. And
(51:34):
Scott really doesn't know what to think anymore. He's like,
I look exactly like Santa Claus, But am I Santa Claus?
And then Charlie's like, you are, and if you don't
be Santa Claus, you're gonna let all those kids down
there counting on you. And then he's like, okay, I
am Santa Claus. And then Bernard shows up and it's
like time to get to work, honey, and then they
all leave, men be snow Globe comes back, which is
(51:58):
a concert you in all three films, and the same
plot happens, where like near the end of the film,
the snow globe shows up and it shows someone that
Santa Claus exists. Like in the second film, it shows
his prospective wife that's like she She's like, you're not Santa.
You're just making fun of me because I told you
(52:19):
I used to believe in Santa. That's so upsetting, weird
way to make fun of someone, and very reflective of
how she feels about him. But then Charlie in the
second film shows her the snow globe and as soon
as she sees the snow globe she's like, it must
be magic. He is Santa. Oh yeah, I one of
(52:43):
my favorite moments. And then the third one, the snow
globe is used to go back in time to undo Santa,
but also it's used at the end of the film
to redo Santa. So is there time travel in Santa
Claus Three? Yes, there's extensive time travel and it changes
the whole world. But Jack Ross converts the North Pole
into a theme park. Unbelievable. I can watch it. I
(53:11):
have Disney plus now brags. Yes, yes, we love to
give them our money. I also have it. So Bernard
shows up and then he's Scott and Charlie. I'll leave
for the North Pole. Uh. And now Laura and Neil
(53:31):
think that Charlie has been kidnapped. Because he's been kidnapped
is why they feel that. And I didn't realize this
as a child. But Charlie is gone for a whole month,
from the time from Thanksgiving to Christmas. Eve never seen
the film. Dear Zachary. Yes, God, wait, why would you
(53:52):
bring that up? Oh my god, because I just want
to say another good thing about Scott Calvin. Dear Zachary.
Spoiler Like it's a documentary. It's the saddest documentary I've
(54:14):
ever seen in my life. Oh my god, this is
baby and the same is Zachary and his dad probably
got murdered by his mom. And then the mom kidnaps Zachary, right, yes,
(54:38):
she sure does. It's so sad. She kidnaps Zachary, then
kills Zachary and then kills herself, right yes. And a
lot of times when a parent that doesn't have custody
kidnaps a kid, then they die in some way. But
(55:14):
Grace is repeatedly citing history's greatest monsters to demonstrate this. Calvin,
isn't this after It's not a bad day. I'm having
a panic attack. You're not wrong, a wrong. It's true,
he's not a raging alcoholic son. He didn Santa clause,
(55:39):
but he didn't. Again, I contend he did not. It
was in the cards. So he have duck, but he
have ducts Charlie for a whole month. There's an extensive
police investigation. I feel like the movie intentionally doesn't call
to attention how long he's gone. I've seen this movie
(56:01):
a million times until Caitlin told me earlier today that
it was a month that I realized. Yeah, you were like,
it's a night, right, Yeah, because I barely rudely insisted
it was a night, very rudely, and I'm sorry. And
then Caitlin presented her evidence that it was clear that
I was wrong. Well, because he's objected right around Thanksgiving
on Thanksgiving and then has returned on Christmas Eve. Yes,
(56:25):
it's scary, it's right. Oh and then like at the
end there's a very different what movie we're comparing it
to where you can see in the shot right before
Scott comes back, and it's like just kidding, I'm actually Santa,
which is a great twist. Uh. But like Laura and
Neil are sitting at the kitchen table, she's clearly at
the end of her rope. I'm like, they're about to
(56:45):
divorce each other. This is the worst thing that they lost,
They've lost their t and then it turns out the
spirit of Christmas brings them back together and they're not mad.
They're not mad at They're not mad. They're like, Charlie,
welcome back. I want to know an interesting thing, I'm
not sure so so in the Santa it's interesting that
(57:08):
you brought that up because in the Santa Claus, through
the escape clause, when it's kind of like this is
the most specific um actually never being I'm not even
I'm not like, I'm not I'm not what I'm saying here.
What I'm saying here is that in the in the
(57:30):
in the in the timeline where Scott Calvin never becomes
Santa Claus and Jack Frost becomes Santa Claus. So in
the timeline when Scott Calvin has never Santa Claus, Neil
and Linda Laura but spiritually Linda, Neil and Laura's spiritually
Linda divorce. So in a world where Scott Calvin never
(57:52):
became Santa Claus, they do get divorced. No, yeah, I
honestly think that Laura is better off without either of them.
I like, but um, I guess I'm not as upset
as I lead on. I think Laura should tell us
what her job is and that we should be able
to learn some facts about her, and that her, like
(58:12):
her child stepdad, shouldn't be the one that is pushing
for like custody decisions. Right that I was like annoyed
at Neil or Neil's like, it's the I am a doctor,
and this is the way it has to be. And
I was like, it's not. He's not your son. You
don't get to your call. Yeah, and then Laura was
like I didn't get a board game, and and then
and then they're like about her as far as we know,
(58:35):
that's that and having her son abducted are her top
two problems. Another thing about Scott yea so in the
second film and don't call it a movie in front
of Grace, she'll get very upset called a saga. If
(59:02):
there's a meeting of the council of like a mythological
being which I remember this and Father Time notes that
since Scott became Santa, kids are seventy percent happier. He's
one of the best Santas of all time. So explanation
(59:23):
why Laura didn't get that game is that the Santa
before Scott was real bad at his job. That was like,
that was like Carter era Santa. That was car Liker. Sure,
I just don't think he's a hero, and I think
that his choice in Santa's really reflected that. Yeah, they agree.
(59:45):
I don't know if you if you all know this,
but we're privy to some very explositive information. The president
chooses Santa. Yeah, and a different clause that's a that's
just a different if you shake this snogo up at
doesn't count, but technically that is the law. Yeah, and
that's why Scott Calvin is kind of a bipartisan here really,
(01:00:12):
because he's sued for administrations, including that real Loopie one
going on right now. Yeah, well, we haven't seen Scott
Calvin since Okay, I'll push back on that. We haven't
seen Calvin since the Bush administration. Listen, Jamie, you've gotta
believe in something. I think that all. Yeah, well, I
(01:00:36):
guess he came to prominence during the Clinton administration. He
lasted through the Bush administration, and really, you know, I
think now we really need them now more than ever.
I agree. See he's able to work within the system.
You know, there's something to be said for that. Yeah,
he's changing things from the No, he's not. The thing
(01:00:59):
is Tim Allen voted for Trump, and that's something we
really need to. I know everyone's hissing through their teeth,
but it's like we have to. We have toss it
every We can't talk about buzz Lightyear without being like,
well it is you know what. I bet Scott Calvin
(01:01:20):
also would have voted for Trump had he not well,
he was rich, he was very Christian market, he's at
the very least fiscally. Do you think Scott, wait, let's
clear this up. Let's clear this up. Do you think
Scott Calvin would have voted for Trump if he had?
I agree with you. If he hadn't become Santa he
(01:01:41):
would have voted for Trump. But I think Santa Claus
like he became, he's like Medicare for all. He's probably
like he's probably like, yeah, well, I don't know I
would give him that much credit. We the show has
been going on for an hour and we were not
(01:02:02):
even done with the recaps. So how well it Well,
we're we're at the end. But yes, we're at the
end where they prepped for Christmas Eve. It Scott a
k fully fledged Santa now, and he's accepted it. He's
accepted it, he's embraced it. He and Charlie are out
delivering presents to the kids and then they stop at
(01:02:23):
Laura and Neil's house, but the police catch him and
arrest him, which I totally forgot that happened, to say,
I totally forgot that. And I also forgot how the
North Pole like dispatches the squad of like swat elves,
okay elves with attitude, and I think that's kind of
a desert stormy thing. Yeah, sure s track I love
(01:02:49):
and they're like, we're your worst nightmare elvesd editing. I
know I said that to him. It's like, whose kid
was that? Why did that kid get to be? I
feel like that they had and no disrespect. I mean,
if you were one of the Alps with attitudes slide
into our mentions, please the show there. But but that
(01:03:11):
to me had the energy of like a crew member's kid.
You know, every one of those kids has a degree
from U c. L A. Now, well, these elves with
attitude break stand out of jail, and then they go
back to Laura and Neil's house. And even though he's
(01:03:33):
kidnapped Charlie for a month, like we said, Laura Neil
are just like whatever. But from this perspective, they still
think that Scott is like delusional And then suddenly apropos
of absolutely nothing. One of the best line reads in
cinema history, because it's Laura and she says, oh my god,
(01:03:57):
you really are Santa clause you know, that line wasn't
even originally in the movie. The actors who was the
actress that played Laura, she was I'll get her name,
but continue. So she was just on set and saw
Tim Allen dressed up at Santa emotion just overcame her
(01:04:21):
and they happened to be rolling, and that's what she said,
you know, in person, oh you really are Santa. And
they were like, we gotta use we got. Her name
is Wendy Krusen and she is in all three of
the movies her Well we don't need to go well, yeah,
(01:04:42):
but yeah, there's no like catalyst in the story that
gets her to be like, oh, wow, you are Santa Claus.
I guess it's magic. It's it's magic, magic and belief.
Caitlin so sorry, And then Neil Neil apologizes to Charlie,
which I liked. He's like, I'm sorry, I didn't believe
that Scott Colvin is Santa Claus. I see now the initials.
(01:05:04):
That makes sense. But then he immediately bag pedals on
what he just said and he was just like, oh no,
he's like making us by into this huge delusion. But
then like a few moments later, Scott Calvin, who is
a good Santa Claus whistle and the mystery date game
and a soccer whistle to Charlie, which I guess he wanted.
(01:05:28):
I guess he asked. Right before that happens, the best
moment happens, which is Laura takes the custody papers and
then she throws the custody papers into the fireplace and
she's like, there you go. You've got your custody back.
And it's like, legally, he doesn't, don't. It's it's mystifying
(01:05:51):
that they were able to navigate the courts well enough
to take his custody away, but they didn't know that, like, oh,
you don't get to that decision right the law. But
I mean, I guess it's all kind of mood because
then he just flees to the North Pole permanently. So
and that's the movie. That's a movie. That's that was
(01:06:14):
the lying around and then everyone's like, wow, it really
is Santa we it's really it's all real that the
Santa Clause. Al Right, everyone, that's the end of part one.
Don't forget to grab your tickets for our upcoming live
(01:06:35):
shows in San Francisco and New York and Philly, and
then also follow us on social media pectol cast our,
Patreon and patreon, dot com, slash pactol cast, grab our,
merch all that good stuff, and stay tuned for part
two of The Santa Clause by
Hello everyone. You're about to hear an episode that we
recorded live in Denver back in November. And speaking of
live shows, uh, we just wanted to take this opportunity
right at the top to tell you about a few
more live shows that we have coming up in January.
Starting with January twenty two, we will be in San
(00:22):
Francisco for SF Sketch Fest at the Gateway Theater and
we're covering the movie This Social Network. And then January
will be in New York for the Brooklyn Podcast Festival
at the Bellhouse and we will be covering Black Swan.
And finally on January will be in Philadelphia at Good
(00:45):
Good Comedy Theater and we will be covering The sixth Cents.
So a lot of dark and eerie movies on this
little tour. More details and ticket links are on our
website beckelcast dot com and click on the live tab
for all the information you need. The other thing we
(01:05):
have to mention on this episode is that at this
live show, we talked for so long about the movie
The Santa Clause that we decided to split this episode
up into two parts. So this is part one that
you're listening to right now, and we are releasing part
two tomorrow, so stay tuned for that. Until then, enjoy
(01:27):
part one of the Santa Claus On the beck Del Cast.
The questions asked if movies have women? And um? Are
all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Do they have individualism?
The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing it with the beck
Del Cast. Hi, welcome to the Beckiel Cast. Oh, we're
(01:52):
so excited. So we're we're in Denver, Colorado. Ever heard
of it? We're so give it up for yourselves for
coming out to night man. My name is Jamie Lofton,
my name is Caitlin Durante, and we are the co
host of the bettel Cast, the show you're currently at.
(02:12):
Did you know, by round of applause, who listens to
our show? Oh? And now for a moment of tension,
who among you does not listen to the bettel Cast?
No judgment. Brave, brave, brave, brave, brave, each and every
(02:34):
one of you, not allies? Okay, thank you so much.
Hates women? Wow? Incredibly you all hate women? Okay? Um, yeah, no,
thank you for coming. We we hope to convert you.
We're gonna what is that move? A clockwork? Orange where
you just know, that's kind of what this experience will
be like. Yeah, uh so if you don't know, we
(02:57):
talk about the representation of women in fees. We use
the Bechtel test as a jumping off point to initiate
a larger conversation. And the Bechtel test is a media
metric created by cartoonist Alison Bechtel. It's sometimes called the
Bechtel Wallace test. Yes, thank you, you're welcome, and uh.
A movie will pass the Bechtel test if two female
(03:19):
identifying characters with names speak to each other about something
other than a man, can we demonstrate? Okay, so this
is an example of an Academy Award winning scene between
two female Hi, Caitlin, Hi, Jamie. All good scenes start
like this, Kitlin, did you know that Santa Claus is
(03:40):
a woman? Oh? Wow, now you know? And seen it's
kind of like that. The best part of the Bechtel
test is it doesn't have to even be good. Writing
truly is a fair minimum metric, and so few movies
pass it. It's incredible. I think arian A Grande should
(04:00):
rewrite her God Is a Woman's Song as Santa Claus
as a woman. For the holidays, hasn't I stand for Ariana,
which is the most embarrassing thing about me. But she
has I think the horny ist Christmas album out of
all of the I mean, she has it's for all holidays,
(04:21):
but it's it's very it's like, whoa, you know, you
don't think you're gonna like turn on this music and
be like I need to have sex immediately, but you
just really gets you somewhere that you aren't expecting to go. Okay, yeah,
highly recommending are in a grande holiday catalog if you're
(04:42):
looking to spice up a relationship or if you're you know,
just out there looking for someone, just just turn it
all and people moths to a flame. Sure, I guess
hard and I think most of that past the Bechtel test,
assuming the sex you'll be having is not with a man,
so which is always for the best. So he said, yeah,
(05:04):
that's that's our that's what our podcast is. And now
we get to I think we've chosen what I think
is indisputably a feminist text. Oh yeah, it's really it's
genuinely really hard when we're doing holiday movies because none
of them are about women. Is truly alarmed. Um, Jamie
the Princess Switch on Netflix, starring Vanessa Hudgens. But we
(05:26):
already did that. We did, we did, and then we're
going to do with the new one, the Oh the
Night before Christmas, but night spelled with the case. It
will be a classic. I like that. Vanessa Hudgens has
just been like I am in charge of this gen
right now. Like she just is really take I appreciate
(05:48):
the take charge attitude. No one asked her to do it.
She just was like, there's room here, and she's right.
Her agents are probably begging her like please don't say
yes to this other one, and she's like, no, I'm
doing I'm doing this one for the story. It's so
I mean holiday movies. I have not to bring it up.
(06:10):
This is the time of year where the masses they revolt.
Because my unproduced screenplay, Santa University, still hasn't been produced.
It's been I wrote it in two thousand twelve. It's
five hours long. It's if you haven't it's a musical.
But the best part is it's about Santa University. Right,
(06:31):
so at university where Santa's go, Santa's of all very
inclusive university. Here's a twist. Only one Santa graduates a
year and the rest die. It's because it's a good
it would be people would lose their minds for this movie.
They don't just die, they kill each other. They kill
(06:51):
each other. I'm sorry. They don't die of like illness.
They kill each other. It's very violent. You can and
it can happen to anyone at any time. You know.
It's really and the lead character is I think the most.
It's just there there, you know what a woman went
at the end. A woman becomes the one true Santa,
which is great, but then also she has to be
(07:13):
killed at the end of the next year because that's
how Santa University works. Anyways, that's the movie we're discussing today.
Close very classic. We're discussing today is the Santa clause
uh Tim Allen vehicle. Very successful. Clap it up. If
you have seen this movie before, okay, and a round
(07:40):
of applause. For those of you who have not seen
the movie, Wow, are like listening to the Bechdel cast.
But I've seen this everyone. We were just talking about
in the lobby that I think that most people have
seen this movie, whether they like it or not. Like
(08:01):
it's a movie that is very hard to avoid. It's true.
I like everyone has seen it. I mean, I'm it's
a feminist text. I mean clearly. Well, let's bring out
our guests to join our conversation about this feminist text.
She's a Denver legend. She is. She's a very funny comedian.
She's written for ClickHole. Give it up for Grace Thomas. Hello,
(08:29):
thanks for being here. Microphone was on the chair and
not the floor. So Grace, tell us about your history
relationship with the Santa Claus. Yeah. Well, every time I've
seen listening to Clause movies for the first time, someone
(08:50):
has died. Oh well, like later, I thought the first
one with my as gonna say, what is this Santa University?
I saw the first one, in the second one with
my dad, and then he died a year after the
second one. Coincidence. I think third one with my cousin,
and she died this past summer. I'm sorry for It's fine.
(09:13):
I'm joking about. And I think it's in a deep
state sense. It's certainly all connected. I think it's definitely
connected in a deep state sense. And I questioned why
I haven't been compensated. It really does make you think, Okay,
(09:39):
so you've watched them the movie, you've seen all three.
I've seen all three. Has anyone else here seen all three?
This is a powerful mythos. This is more powerful than
I could have imagined. We have not seen. I think
I've seen all three at various I couldn't speak to
(10:00):
all three, but Grace, you can speak to all three.
I certainly can. I just rewatched the Anti Claus too,
like two hours ago, by coincidence, I had that scheduled
months ago, which in Santa Claus Do is the one
(10:23):
that if he doesn't get married, Christmas is canceled. R yes,
but it is also the one where a copy of
Santa Claus, a toy Santa Claus, is made, and then
he militarizes the North Pole, or so the movie would
like to suggest. But really the North Pole has already
(10:45):
been militarized because in the very first scene, Santa Claus,
like there's an oil plane going over the North Pole
checking for oil, and they have to like make sure
that this oil plane doesn't detect the North Pole, because
I guess their magic doesn't cover that in particular. And
(11:06):
Santa Claus pops up and he declares Elf Khan one
Santa Claus, not the toy Santa Clause tim Al in
real Santa Claus is enough in full military regalia with
medals and one of those floppy hats. The whole thing.
(11:28):
They were waiting for this day. They already had, the
pieces were in place. You know. It's like how people say,
like Jimmy Carter was anti war, Well he didn't know.
We've been waiting to talk about this is It's not.
It's not like he melted down. The takes, you know,
(11:49):
they were still there. So it's elfkn one, it's alf
Khan one. It's okay. The oil plane just keeps going.
And then flash forward a month later there's this we
see anti He's made all these toy soldiers and he's
going to attack all the world with coal. Oh okay,
(12:11):
it's eerily prescient considered considering that the Iraq War was
declared Mary a few months later. This is like Christmas
two two is just long enough for it to be
post nine and be like we have to get into
production right now exactly. That is alarming. I don't love it.
(12:34):
In Santa Claus movie, do they have like the alert
color system? They're Elf Khan four is green and then
it goes yellow, orange, red, red. I think it's good
(12:58):
they made this. I mean, I think it made it.
I mean this movie. I'm pretty sure ended that war,
didn't it. As a child, I don't think I would
have been prepared for the War to Rock if I
hadn't seen the Santa Clas because morn that that war
(13:21):
was declared. My mom woke me up at like five am.
It was like, honey, we're at war, and you were like,
what do you mean war? And then I already knew
and she's like, well, it's kind of like the Santa
Claus to exactly like sant Like, oh well, then Santa
Clas will get married and the conflict will be resolved,
(13:42):
and sure, okay, and then Santa Clas three is Martin
short is Jack Frost, and that's all I remember. Yeah,
Santa Claus three. It's called the Santa Claus through the
Escape Class and it's a very controversial entry into the
cave because it's revealed in the Santa Claus three that
(14:04):
the Alps have just been gaslighting him the whole time. Wait,
how they've been telling Santa Claus for years that like
he's he's locked into Santa Claus. You know, like when
the first movie, they're like, Okay, you signed the contract,
that's it, You're Santa right. But it turns out in
the Santa Claus three the escape clause if he if
Santa Claus holds the snow glow, that m that David crumples.
(14:31):
If ye Bernard game to Charlie in the first movie,
if he holds it and says I wish I was
never Santa clause, time reverses, She's never Santa Claus. So
you could just undo the whole cannon. Yeah, that simple.
(14:52):
I would revolt. I would like, how do you say
that the sex one saw style revolts the whole all.
I would be like, this was this doesn't make any sense. Okay,
but is it a good movie? Um? You know I
went to it with my uncle and I hadn't seen
(15:12):
him in years, So it did a positive thing. That's
very good. One of my favorite. So the we were
talking about this backstage, but the budgets for the Santa
Claus movies are extremely influx where the first Santa Claus
movie that we're discussing today is stupidly successful. It has
a two million dollar budget and it makes almost two
(15:33):
hundred million dollars, which is why everyone has seen it
by law. Right, So the second one, they're like, all right,
people want this. They they triple the budget. It gets
sixties six million dollars for mostly for the military. I
would imagine they spend so much time in the North
(15:55):
Pole that one maybe doesn't do as well, but it's
still ripples. It's budget, but you know they're they're like, okay.
And then the third one, the Escape Clause, has an
eleven million dollar budget, and that's the last entry into
the cannon. Yeah for now, for now, you're right, you're right.
(16:17):
Is it really doesn't have much of an extended universe? No,
very contradictory. So, long story short, you're very into the
Santa Claus. Yeah, I'm pretty much into any movie I
saw with my dad before he died, pretty much. Okay,
and then you and you have the most comprehensive knowledge,
and I think a power. Yeah, I'm an oracle, yes
(16:43):
when it comes to the Santa Claus. All right, well,
we're so glad to have your expertise here. I have
a giant book that I've written all of this down
in the language only I can understand is just the
funniest person that gosh um, yeah, fucking follow that. I
(17:09):
grew up with this movie as a child. It came
out when I was eight, and I watched it a
lot from probably ages like eight to ten, and then
I haven't seen it since. How about you, Jamie, I've
seen this movie a lot of times. I think I
was too little to see it when it came out,
but I had seen all three of them. I think
I've only seen the second one maybe five times, and
(17:31):
the third one just the ones. Um, I've seen this
one so many times. Can I ask you to one
quick question? Did you ever see it with someone who
died later? Or is it just great? It may, in
fact be, but I think to maybe make you feel
(17:55):
more comfortable, I would kill my brother seen it with
anyone who died later? Yes, the curse is real? Your dad,
that's great, A good connection. We'll talk. I really liked this.
(18:18):
It was like one of my favorite holiday movies growing up.
I had a very nasty, nasty crush on Bernard the
el Hi right, Bernard the You're like white man with
dreads I shouldn't write, And then yet, like a moth
to the flame, I do. I keep going back. I
keep going back to him. I was looking for like
(18:41):
an oral history in this movie. I'm like, who was
the one that was like white guy with dreads right, Like,
it's just nothing about the character demands that I would
be shocked if it was written into the script. And
yet there he is, and I was like what I was?
I was really hot for Bernard and my mom. I
remember that Grace and I were talking about this earlier
(19:01):
we saw. I saw the first two where I definitely
saw the second one in theaters. I remember going because
it was I think an eight year lapse between the
first and the second and the first one, Charlie is
like he's like, you know, seven or eight, He's like
his cute little kid with a bowl cut. And my
mom did that horrible thing that mom's occasionally do where
he was like a teenager. And my mom leaned over
(19:23):
to me at the movie theater and was like, wow, right,
I had some young man. He's becoming. Like she was
just trying to force the narrative, maybe because she was like,
please stop drinking off to Bernard. She was really pushing
the Charlie North. But I wouldn't be tricked, and I
(19:43):
would I would still let Bernard go down. I mean,
I think Bernard looks very non binary. In my opinion,
I think he looks very like I think he looks
like a him lesbian. You know NB icon and nb
icon for sure. I just I just want to bring
the home. Yeah, Bernard is who I just want to
(20:04):
know hashtag who decided the dreads? But I yeah, I
really like this. Do you think that Bernard just got
the like David Krumholtz just got the last wig they had? Like,
this is how it works out a movie side. If
you come like, you get the last wig. Ok, this
(20:25):
is what you can like. And the worst part is
it's cannon because in the sequels he also has the dress.
They didn't need to be like an eight years later. Wait,
so if he's in the sequel in this world, the
elves are children and they don't age, but he would
have aged like eight. They do age, though, that's the
(20:48):
thing that's what angers me so much. But well they
age very slowly. They do. But like Curtis in the
third movie, I think is played by the same Curtis
as second Helf, he's a kid, and he's a kid
in the first one, right, Yeah, and then he's coming back.
I think it's the same actor in the thing. Wow,
good for him. But like in the first movie, Judy's
(21:12):
like I'm years old and then Tim Allen hits on her.
Yes he First of all, it's one of the grossest scenes.
It was that scene. You're just like, who is this for?
Because she's played by a child, and it's like, oh,
like nine, Like Yeah, when I was a little kid
(21:36):
and I first saw that movie, I remember seeing that
scene and be like, oh my god, I hope they
get married. This is the start of a wonderful story.
And people say media doesn't it is wild that Tim
(21:57):
full and flirts with a child. Yeah. And in my
memory when I hadn't seen it for a while, I
thought she was an adult. I thought she was like
the one adult. Let me see it again. And she's
the youngest of them all. Yea more of a child.
It's it's pretty alarming. Well, should I do the recap? Yes,
this is gonna be I mean, there's so much feminist
(22:17):
lord to discuss in this movie that Hi everyone, Hi,
I'm about to do the recap. But before I do,
I just had to sneak backstage in the middle of
the show. Because I'm just so excited to tell you
about Casper. I hope Jamie doesn't mind that I just
left her out there, but I again simply have to
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(22:42):
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(23:04):
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you one thing. If Charlie had been sleeping on a
(23:26):
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arose such a clatter with Santa clamoring around on his roof.
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(23:47):
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(24:08):
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(24:30):
using promo code TBC at checkout. Okay, now, I got
to get back to the show. So here I come.
All right, So here we go. It's Christmas time. That's
what I wrote. Good starting, good Start than we meet
(24:50):
Scott Calvin. Two first names suspicious right, we don't never
trus a mama. Two first names Jack Ryan. Also Tim
Allen has. Tim Allen has two first names right, and
he sucks his hell. What does that show you? He
works at a toy company in the sales department. I think, um,
(25:13):
he is divorced. He and his ex wife X Laura Laura.
I was writing her name is Linda in all of
my notes because I feel like that's such a common
his wife name that I just phoned it in and
I was like, honestly, I was pretty close Laura. And
(25:35):
then they just break and they looked a camera like
you get the idea. We're not going to tell you
what her job is. So they have a son together, Charlie,
who spends Christmas Eve with Scott because his mom and
new husband Neil Neil Judge Reinhold, they're having dinner or
(25:55):
something and Charlie is not invited in some of the
most I think of my childhood, some of the most
effective in movie marketing of all time, when they go
to Denny's, because there were no Denny's near where I
grew up, and I was asking my parents for years,
what is Denny's? Can we go? And and then it
(26:17):
was like a big deal when we finally got to
go to a Denny's. And it's so horrible. It's the
sight many are you kidding Perkins? Okay, No, Denny's. Denny's
can Perkins ass any day? Have you ever been to
a Perkins? Wait? When I knew okay, the moment where
(26:39):
I'm like, you know what I'm doing okay in life
is when I would go to Denny's and be like,
I'm going to get off you know, the off the
two F six eight. I'm like, I'm gonna go, I'm
gonna go off the six menu. I was like, I'm
a millionaire. What I think the audience should know is
that Jamie, you and I go to Denny's together a lot.
And it was no but I was so oh, like,
(27:00):
I was so excited to go to Denny's. And then
I on the rewatch, I was like, oh, they really
were going for broke on this Denny's endorsement. Tim Allen
leans into the corn. He's like, it's an American institution, Denny's.
And then they have a horrible time back on that
first because not only does the Denny's hardly have anything
(27:23):
like that's true, Charlie goes in there. They want to igno,
but it's so busy and Charlie doesn't enjoy his time
at all. So, if the big wigs at Disney were
trying to promote Denny's with this felt they did a
horse ship job worked for you. I was like, I
asked to go for fourteen years after. I think it
(27:44):
worked for me because I really wanted to go to
Denny's for a long time too, and my mom would
refuse because again Perkins was an option. But they go
to They go to Denny's in it's It's great, yeah,
and we love Denny's. Here on the Betel Cast, someone's
(28:04):
gonna tweeted us to be like Denny's is problematic, and like, no,
you know, we know everything's the word and he's just canceled.
I take it back. Okay, So Scott is not the
most invested parent. He like puts in a little effort.
He burns the turkey. They go to the Denny's iconic
when he burns the turkey. Yes, I feel like there's
(28:27):
a in a mythical way, yere again again. I would
watch a ten hour loop of extinguishing. I take it
almost suggests that maybe there was some force was setting
him up. Do you think that Santa Claus targeted Scott Calvin.
(28:52):
It's like, I'm over this job. I think that any
person with the initials see they're like they're unnoticed. Sarah Connor,
Sarah Connor, think about it, Santa claus coincidence. I think
two things. Really what There's a shot when Santa's on
(29:16):
the ground after he's followed and at Scott and Charlie
are trying to figure out what to do, and there's
just one shot which doesn't look like any of the
other shots in the film. It's like this weird. I
went to film school. I say briefly that I did.
I didn't graduate, but so if you didn't, then that
(29:40):
must mean you didn't go twice to film school. Like
I don't like to bring it up, but I did
get a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University. I
hate to mention it. Caitlin's addicted to flaunting her debt.
I think that's beautiful. I'm twenty thous dollars in debt
with nothing. Wow, I've got some good stories. Yeah, a
(30:04):
student observation. This is student observation. So there's this shot,
Santa's on the ground. It's medium medium shot. Okay, I'm familiar. Okay,
that's weird about it. But I don't know what it is,
but it looks weird. Okay, that's that's a medium shot
is the term I was prepping everyone for telling them
(30:28):
I went to build school. But but what happens in
it in the missinman is Santa like raises his hand
for a moment and goes, oh, yeah, very that was
(30:51):
I wrote that down. I'm like, was that the last
thing he did before he died? And so I think
it suggests that he'd show was like. I think it
suggests that he it was his choice. And and Caitlin
brought up something excellent on the drive here, which is
that we learned in the Santa Claus too, although I
(31:13):
guess we learned in the Santa Claus three but none
of it matters. But in the Santa Claus too, and
addgital clause is presented that unless you have a his wife,
Christmas is canceled, which means that the Santa who falls
off the roof and dies in the beginning of this
movie would have probably had a his wife. And where
did she did? She? Is her life force tied by
(31:36):
Santa and then she also died in that very moment,
Sarah or think about it? I like, I think her
name is Sandra Claus and she either died in that
moment or she just gets like austed. They're like, um,
your husband's dead, You're not welcome here anymore, and they
(31:56):
like ban her from the North Pole. We don't know
though where there should be an extended universe and we
should get a spin off a Sandra Clause. Brady is available, Yeah,
Sasha Baron comins, but I'm just looking up a list
of is that Stephen Colbert, think about it? Simon Cowell?
(32:21):
Who else do we go? If you're if your initials
in the audience? Thank you? Does anyone here have initials?
A C? One person? Okay, Santa show yourself. I can't
believe Santa came to the show. Thank you for coming
so exciting. Um, that's all Steve Coogan, alright, And finally
(32:47):
Cheryl Crow sure think about it. Santa Clause. She goes
to bed with her MONOGRAMD pajamas and then her kid
comes up to her like, wait a second, sorry, what's
happening in the movie. I don't even know. Um, clearly
there's not much for us to talk about, which is
why we're stretching. It's feminist Tim Allen pushing someone off
(33:08):
a rufus feminist. He doesn't know. I'm still trying to
process something you said earlier. I have to say you were.
You two were making fun of people with two first names,
and I would just like to quickly remind you that
my name is Great Thomas, and I'm not I went
(33:32):
to film school and i'd have had some respect. You
and Jack Ryan have my eternal respect. I'm so sorry.
Queen's Jack on the show with Jim from the Office. Yeah,
but this time he got a gun. All right, So
(33:56):
back to the Santa clause we were in in it too,
where he's truly okay. So they go to Denny's. They
talk about whether or not Santa Claus is real, and
Scott wants Charlie to believe that Santa is real, even
though he is an adult does not believe in Santa.
(34:17):
Now it's the middle of the night on Christmas Eve
and there arose such a clatter on Tim Allen's roof
and he plays. Charlie is like, he's really good in
the movies, Like it's a clatter he's and then he
grows up and my mom is like, whoa, but in
(34:37):
this one he's cute. Yeah, So Scott goes outside to
check on the clatter and Santa is on his roof.
He accidentally startles Santa Claus and he slips off and
falls off the roof and dies or progress does it
on purpose, it was playing. It's like such a hot take.
(35:01):
It's like how in the Dark Night Batman is trying
to get like Harvey Dent to like be the new
like crusader against crime, so that he doesn't have to
do it anymore. And I think that's the same thing
that's happening. It's probably a similar amount of people tie
throughout the course of the film. So Scott reaches into
(35:23):
Santa's suit and finds a business card that says, if
something should happen to me, put on my suit, the
reindeer will know what to do. So then he and
Charlie see the reindeer on the roof. They notice Santa's
body has now vanished totally fine, totally normal, and his
suit is still there though so and then a ladder appears,
(35:45):
suddenly arose such a clatter company still funny, still funny,
And they climb up onto the roof. The sleigh is
up there. They both get in it, and Scott's like
this is stupid, but Charlie's like, we that classic father
Son dynamics, and then the reindeer take off with Scott
(36:09):
and Charlie in the sleigh. They go to the next
house that was apparently on just the Santa agenda, and
Scott reluctantly puts on the Santa suit and the like
magical bag of toys takes him down the chimney, which
in some of the most cursed special effects you'll see. Yeah,
just like, let's render Tim Allen barely. It's so scary,
(36:33):
it's very alarming. I also did not notice until this
rewatch that the reindeer are like puppets. I thought as
a kid they were full on, real amazing reindeer actors there.
And then there's it's fart jokes for the reindeers close
up of hens and workshop making fart noises, and like, yeah,
(36:53):
that's what this. That technology was a metaphor. So he
goes into the next house. He puts toys under the tree.
This is the one where like the little girl is
there and he's like, funk off, little girl, yeah, fuck
you yeah, and she doesn't notice that her house suddenly
has a fireplace. Then it goes away that is the
second house, the second second Okay, I'm sorry you asked.
(37:19):
I didn't want everyone to get burned online, which happens
to us all the time. The first one has a
fireplace like usual, and the second one even though it
is an identical house there side by side, and they're
identical houses, but this other one doesn't have it, just
has a little pipe. Yeah, thank you for Santa. Santa
(37:41):
makes it work because I think the film very artfully
takes takes you into its mythology, step by step over
the big levitate him, and then you see the transmogrification,
not all at once. It's world building at its best.
(38:02):
I mean, folks, these are the writers of Space Jam.
They know what they're doing. Oh yeah, they know what
they're doing. They're skilled artisans. So Tim Allen what's his name,
Scott Scott and uh he and his son do this
over and over again, with house after house all night,
(38:24):
and then they finally are taken to the North Pole
where Santa's workshop is, and there are lots of elves,
their children, but they're a million yes. And then this
is when we meet Bernard. Did you did anyone else here? Also?
(38:45):
Think Tim Allen was hot? Because some people just say,
right here, I do in this movie as Santa Claus
to Santa Claus, Ship's sale that. Yeah, and you know,
(39:08):
I think that I kind of idolize him a little,
like not to Mellen as a person. But it's got Kelvin,
you know, the character. We've been we've been pretty critical
and the film is pretty critical of his parenting. Pretty
Santa Claus. But at least he's not a raging I
call it, you know, that's true, which is pretty good. Yeah,
(39:33):
I think that's maybe a low ball. I think it's
a perfectly adequate yardstick. Yeah, you know, and this is
not to be you know, like I'm in recovery. It's
like cool if you're an I mean, you know, I'm
not saying that you're a bad person if you're an alcoholic. However,
personal experience pretty hard to be a bad parent. If
(39:53):
you're a raging alcoholic, that's a tough one to pull off,
you know. Also, Charlie gets two houses. I had a
two bedroom apartment and a one bedroom apartment up this
is I mean, this is like yet another because we
we recently recorded an episode on Home Alone. Uh and
it's yet another like upscale like white family living in Illinois,
(40:18):
specifically in November and December. Like there's such a specific vibe.
Why are they always in Illinois? It was filmed Toronto.
Are people afraid of people thinking they're Canadian? Everything was
filmed in Vancouver and Toronto and they're like, no, it's Chicago.
You're like it isn't. That's okay, let's accept it. People
(40:40):
are evading taxes, right, yeah, Charlie, what is something? Well, Okay,
I guess we'll talk about it more in depth. But
I did like about this movie is like one of
It was definitely one of the first movies I saw
that like treated a divorced family as something that was
like normal and there wasn't a villain the story. It
(41:00):
was just like clear that these two people didn't belong together.
And then the mother got remarried and it was like difficult,
but it was okay and uh and like everyone loved
the child and like, I don't know, I thought that
was that didn't even like register with me. It's like,
oh that is cool. Yeah yeah, And like Charlie is
not like messed up from having divorced parents. No, now
(41:22):
he has a free therapist even you know, I remembered
them being harsher on Neil than they actually were, to
tell you the truth, they are surprisingly light on Napal.
There's like a couple of like things at times in
the film where he's like a little bit of feminate
and that's the joke. But beyond that, and you know
what I mean, that's bad Chrissy all the time. For
(41:49):
the most part, it's five. Yeah. I mainly remember the
sweater burn sweaterburn very very clearly, and I think I
just was like, oh, that must have happened a lot.
It just happens the once. And Neil is not a
villain in this story, Like he's misguided, but he loves Charlie.
He wants the best, and he doesn't he doesn't hate.
He's willing to work with Scott. I don't know. It's
(42:12):
generally frustrated with Scott's behavior. And wait, Scott is saying
he is Santa Claus, and that is a tough pill
to swallow. But if Neil had just used his doctorate
and thought for a second that sc this guy is
(42:33):
a doctor and he can't figure out that Scott's Calvin
equals Santa Claus, unbelievable. Also Scott Calvin hates mental health
because he keeps being like, Neil isn't a doctor, He's
a psychiatrist, but it's always like the most resistance against
mental health before you fully embrace, like you know what,
(42:54):
it's time. The film also seems very confused about what
a psychiatrist is because I've been to many psychiatrists. I've
never had a psychiatrist spent more than ten minutes talking
to me about like my feelings and like theory around psychology.
They're always just like I think that they I will
(43:14):
continue to give you well you dread, and I love
that for them because I need it right. But there, yeah,
I think that they thought that like a psychiatrist and
a therapists are the same thing. And then also a
therapist could gaslight a child and that's fine because there's
like that scene with Neil and Charlie. Were Neils like,
(43:36):
so you think your dad is Santa? And then like
slowly begins to ask these leading questions that lead up
to like, so what the fuck is your problem? Just
like Neil, you're doing a bad job. You're doing your
bad job. But before we it there, we're now in
(44:01):
minute about twenty of the movie. So they're now in
Santa's workshop and Bernard, who I guess is like the
head elf. He's like he he tells Scott about the
(44:28):
Santa Claus with an E. And this is the point
of the movie where you realize they came up with
the title first and then they reverse engineered a story
around it. That's when a bunch of like parents in
the audience I think they're smart, go oh, they figured
it out. But the Santa Claus states made me want
(44:52):
to be a lawyer. I'm a lawyer because of the
s didn't achieve that dream, but you did go to
art school a little bit. So the Santa Claus clause
states that if something happens to Santa Claus and he
(45:17):
dies after he's fallen off your roof, and you put
on his suit, you become the new Santa. I think
this is one of the most inventive pieces of I
p ever created. Who what SICKO? If you kill Santa,
then you're Santa. That's like a horror movie. It's almost
(45:39):
like this has to be a Crimson fairy tale, right it?
And it gets scarier as it goes on because in
the second movie it's and now you mus procure a woman.
It gets like scarier away to the west of the
North don't live with you for all your days? Wait
(46:02):
with her dreams? Who does he end up marrying? In
the second one? Does he rob a woman of her career? Yeah? What? What?
Who does he the principal of Charley's High school? And
then later she becomes a teacher in the North Pole.
(46:23):
Oh second, a second after in the North Pole. You know,
maybe she think I'm the superintendent of the North Pole.
Wouldn't be stopping her career of up. Also in the
third movie, we find out that yes, all elves look
like children, but there are also new elves being made
(46:47):
that are also look like children made born. Maybe I
was like construct somehow I know. It seems from the
second scene to Plase movie, it seems that it seems
at the North Pole doesn't have the ability to clone,
right because he clone and would have had to make
(47:14):
a toy Santa, they could have just made a cloone.
Santa suggests that yes, these child alves, these actually young elves,
that they were born, they were born and from where
this is why we need a fourth movie, been saying
it for fourteen years. How are the elves Born. How
(47:38):
does it were? I don't know what's happening, all right.
So Scott he he doesn't want to be the new Santa,
and but it seems like he has no choice because
(48:00):
of this binding contract. And Bernard tells him that he
needs to report back to the North Pole next Thanksgiving
and until then he can just kind of live his
normal life. Yeah, Bernard will hold it down. He's like,
don't worry January through October. I'm daddy, thank you. The
(48:27):
more we talk about it, I think less invested I'm
getting in these films. The thing is a huge plot
point of the second film is they make the Toy
Santa because Santa doesn't trust Bernard to hold down the
fort for literally twenty eight days, because that's how much
(48:48):
time he has to find a wife. It's just twenty
eight days. That's like the same plot as the Princess Diaries.
To also pretty much it is it's like, if you
don't get married this month, the country split. Let's get back. Sorry,
it's quite all right, So what's let's see what's happening
in the Santa Claus. The Scott wakes up in his
(49:12):
bed and he thinks the whole thing was a dream,
but Charlie insists that it was real, and his mom
and stepdad and teachers and everyone in school concerned. He
has the pajamas, so he knows, somewhere deep down you've
done that it was real, right, But he's in denial
about it. He thinks he just had a weird dream
(49:33):
about flirting with a kid. Little does he know that's
the only night of his we see it's there, like
maybe this is a thing. That's so everyone's concerned for Charlie.
And then some changes start happening. I would call this
the midpoint of the movie with my master's degree. Like
(49:59):
Scott start scanning weight, his hair starts to turn white.
He grows a beard that like even right after he
shaves it, it grows back. Uh, And he's looking more
and more like Santa Claus, which freaks out Laura and
Neil because they think that he's doing it on purpose
to convince Charlie that he's Santa Claus, which would be alarming.
(50:25):
Put yourself in their shoes, yes, well, but their sweater
if you will. This I mean, this sequence is I
think one of the most iconic sequences in film is
I think, like so many films have tried to copy it,
for instance, Evan Almighty and others. My favorite movies Almighty.
(50:52):
And so the parents are concerned earned and they petitioned
to get soul custody if Charlie and take away Scott's
visitation rights. Um. But then Scott shows up to Laura
and Neil's house anyway, I think on Thanksgiving after he
(51:13):
has visitation rights revoked, because you know, men be showing
up places, men be showing up wistfully at the pane
of glass. At least he's not making threats. And again,
at least he's not a raging alcohol I mean, everyone,
please Scott Calvin's graces hero, So let's be gentle. And
(51:34):
Scott really doesn't know what to think anymore. He's like,
I look exactly like Santa Claus, But am I Santa Claus?
And then Charlie's like, you are, and if you don't
be Santa Claus, you're gonna let all those kids down
there counting on you. And then he's like, okay, I
am Santa Claus. And then Bernard shows up and it's
like time to get to work, honey, and then they
all leave, men be snow Globe comes back, which is
(51:58):
a concert you in all three films, and the same
plot happens, where like near the end of the film,
the snow globe shows up and it shows someone that
Santa Claus exists. Like in the second film, it shows
his prospective wife that's like she She's like, you're not Santa.
You're just making fun of me because I told you
(52:19):
I used to believe in Santa. That's so upsetting, weird
way to make fun of someone, and very reflective of
how she feels about him. But then Charlie in the
second film shows her the snow globe and as soon
as she sees the snow globe she's like, it must
be magic. He is Santa. Oh yeah, I one of
(52:43):
my favorite moments. And then the third one, the snow
globe is used to go back in time to undo Santa,
but also it's used at the end of the film
to redo Santa. So is there time travel in Santa
Claus Three? Yes, there's extensive time travel and it changes
the whole world. But Jack Ross converts the North Pole
into a theme park. Unbelievable. I can watch it. I
(53:11):
have Disney plus now brags. Yes, yes, we love to
give them our money. I also have it. So Bernard
shows up and then he's Scott and Charlie. I'll leave
for the North Pole. Uh. And now Laura and Neil
(53:31):
think that Charlie has been kidnapped. Because he's been kidnapped
is why they feel that. And I didn't realize this
as a child. But Charlie is gone for a whole month,
from the time from Thanksgiving to Christmas. Eve never seen
the film. Dear Zachary. Yes, God, wait, why would you
(53:52):
bring that up? Oh my god, because I just want
to say another good thing about Scott Calvin. Dear Zachary.
Spoiler Like it's a documentary. It's the saddest documentary I've
(54:14):
ever seen in my life. Oh my god, this is
baby and the same is Zachary and his dad probably
got murdered by his mom. And then the mom kidnaps Zachary, right, yes,
(54:38):
she sure does. It's so sad. She kidnaps Zachary, then
kills Zachary and then kills herself, right yes. And a
lot of times when a parent that doesn't have custody
kidnaps a kid, then they die in some way. But
(55:14):
Grace is repeatedly citing history's greatest monsters to demonstrate this. Calvin,
isn't this after It's not a bad day. I'm having
a panic attack. You're not wrong, a wrong. It's true,
he's not a raging alcoholic son. He didn Santa clause,
(55:39):
but he didn't. Again, I contend he did not. It
was in the cards. So he have duck, but he
have ducts Charlie for a whole month. There's an extensive
police investigation. I feel like the movie intentionally doesn't call
to attention how long he's gone. I've seen this movie
(56:01):
a million times until Caitlin told me earlier today that
it was a month that I realized. Yeah, you were like,
it's a night, right, Yeah, because I barely rudely insisted
it was a night, very rudely, and I'm sorry. And
then Caitlin presented her evidence that it was clear that
I was wrong. Well, because he's objected right around Thanksgiving
on Thanksgiving and then has returned on Christmas Eve. Yes,
(56:25):
it's scary, it's right. Oh and then like at the
end there's a very different what movie we're comparing it
to where you can see in the shot right before
Scott comes back, and it's like just kidding, I'm actually Santa,
which is a great twist. Uh. But like Laura and
Neil are sitting at the kitchen table, she's clearly at
the end of her rope. I'm like, they're about to
(56:45):
divorce each other. This is the worst thing that they lost,
They've lost their t and then it turns out the
spirit of Christmas brings them back together and they're not mad.
They're not mad at They're not mad. They're like, Charlie,
welcome back. I want to know an interesting thing, I'm
not sure so so in the Santa it's interesting that
(57:08):
you brought that up because in the Santa Claus, through
the escape clause, when it's kind of like this is
the most specific um actually never being I'm not even
I'm not like, I'm not I'm not what I'm saying here.
What I'm saying here is that in the in the
(57:30):
in the in the timeline where Scott Calvin never becomes
Santa Claus and Jack Frost becomes Santa Claus. So in
the timeline when Scott Calvin has never Santa Claus, Neil
and Linda Laura but spiritually Linda, Neil and Laura's spiritually
Linda divorce. So in a world where Scott Calvin never
(57:52):
became Santa Claus, they do get divorced. No, yeah, I
honestly think that Laura is better off without either of them.
I like, but um, I guess I'm not as upset
as I lead on. I think Laura should tell us
what her job is and that we should be able
to learn some facts about her, and that her, like
(58:12):
her child stepdad, shouldn't be the one that is pushing
for like custody decisions. Right that I was like annoyed
at Neil or Neil's like, it's the I am a doctor,
and this is the way it has to be. And
I was like, it's not. He's not your son. You
don't get to your call. Yeah, and then Laura was
like I didn't get a board game, and and then
and then they're like about her as far as we know,
(58:35):
that's that and having her son abducted are her top
two problems. Another thing about Scott yea so in the
second film and don't call it a movie in front
of Grace, she'll get very upset called a saga. If
(59:02):
there's a meeting of the council of like a mythological
being which I remember this and Father Time notes that
since Scott became Santa, kids are seventy percent happier. He's
one of the best Santas of all time. So explanation
(59:23):
why Laura didn't get that game is that the Santa
before Scott was real bad at his job. That was like,
that was like Carter era Santa. That was car Liker. Sure,
I just don't think he's a hero, and I think
that his choice in Santa's really reflected that. Yeah, they agree.
(59:45):
I don't know if you if you all know this,
but we're privy to some very explositive information. The president
chooses Santa. Yeah, and a different clause that's a that's
just a different if you shake this snogo up at
doesn't count, but technically that is the law. Yeah, and
that's why Scott Calvin is kind of a bipartisan here really,
(01:00:12):
because he's sued for administrations, including that real Loopie one
going on right now. Yeah, well, we haven't seen Scott
Calvin since Okay, I'll push back on that. We haven't
seen Calvin since the Bush administration. Listen, Jamie, you've gotta
believe in something. I think that all. Yeah, well, I
(01:00:36):
guess he came to prominence during the Clinton administration. He
lasted through the Bush administration, and really, you know, I
think now we really need them now more than ever.
I agree. See he's able to work within the system.
You know, there's something to be said for that. Yeah,
he's changing things from the No, he's not. The thing
(01:00:59):
is Tim Allen voted for Trump, and that's something we
really need to. I know everyone's hissing through their teeth,
but it's like we have to. We have toss it
every We can't talk about buzz Lightyear without being like,
well it is you know what. I bet Scott Calvin
(01:01:20):
also would have voted for Trump had he not well,
he was rich, he was very Christian market, he's at
the very least fiscally. Do you think Scott, wait, let's
clear this up. Let's clear this up. Do you think
Scott Calvin would have voted for Trump if he had?
I agree with you. If he hadn't become Santa he
(01:01:41):
would have voted for Trump. But I think Santa Claus
like he became, he's like Medicare for all. He's probably
like he's probably like, yeah, well, I don't know I
would give him that much credit. We the show has
been going on for an hour and we were not
(01:02:02):
even done with the recaps. So how well it Well,
we're we're at the end. But yes, we're at the
end where they prepped for Christmas Eve. It Scott a
k fully fledged Santa now, and he's accepted it. He's
accepted it, he's embraced it. He and Charlie are out
delivering presents to the kids and then they stop at
(01:02:23):
Laura and Neil's house, but the police catch him and
arrest him, which I totally forgot that happened, to say,
I totally forgot that. And I also forgot how the
North Pole like dispatches the squad of like swat elves,
okay elves with attitude, and I think that's kind of
a desert stormy thing. Yeah, sure s track I love
(01:02:49):
and they're like, we're your worst nightmare elvesd editing. I
know I said that to him. It's like, whose kid
was that? Why did that kid get to be? I
feel like that they had and no disrespect. I mean,
if you were one of the Alps with attitudes slide
into our mentions, please the show there. But but that
(01:03:11):
to me had the energy of like a crew member's kid.
You know, every one of those kids has a degree
from U c. L A. Now, well, these elves with
attitude break stand out of jail, and then they go
back to Laura and Neil's house. And even though he's
(01:03:33):
kidnapped Charlie for a month, like we said, Laura Neil
are just like whatever. But from this perspective, they still
think that Scott is like delusional And then suddenly apropos
of absolutely nothing. One of the best line reads in
cinema history, because it's Laura and she says, oh my god,
(01:03:57):
you really are Santa clause you know, that line wasn't
even originally in the movie. The actors who was the
actress that played Laura, she was I'll get her name,
but continue. So she was just on set and saw
Tim Allen dressed up at Santa emotion just overcame her
(01:04:21):
and they happened to be rolling, and that's what she said,
you know, in person, oh you really are Santa. And
they were like, we gotta use we got. Her name
is Wendy Krusen and she is in all three of
the movies her Well we don't need to go well, yeah,
(01:04:42):
but yeah, there's no like catalyst in the story that
gets her to be like, oh, wow, you are Santa Claus.
I guess it's magic. It's it's magic, magic and belief.
Caitlin so sorry, And then Neil Neil apologizes to Charlie,
which I liked. He's like, I'm sorry, I didn't believe
that Scott Colvin is Santa Claus. I see now the initials.
(01:05:04):
That makes sense. But then he immediately bag pedals on
what he just said and he was just like, oh no,
he's like making us by into this huge delusion. But
then like a few moments later, Scott Calvin, who is
a good Santa Claus whistle and the mystery date game
and a soccer whistle to Charlie, which I guess he wanted.
(01:05:28):
I guess he asked. Right before that happens, the best
moment happens, which is Laura takes the custody papers and
then she throws the custody papers into the fireplace and
she's like, there you go. You've got your custody back.
And it's like, legally, he doesn't, don't. It's it's mystifying
(01:05:51):
that they were able to navigate the courts well enough
to take his custody away, but they didn't know that, like, oh,
you don't get to that decision right the law. But
I mean, I guess it's all kind of mood because
then he just flees to the North Pole permanently. So
and that's the movie. That's a movie. That's that was
(01:06:14):
the lying around and then everyone's like, wow, it really
is Santa we it's really it's all real that the
Santa Clause. Al Right, everyone, that's the end of part one.
Don't forget to grab your tickets for our upcoming live
(01:06:35):
shows in San Francisco and New York and Philly, and
then also follow us on social media pectol cast our,
Patreon and patreon, dot com, slash pactol cast, grab our,
merch all that good stuff, and stay tuned for part
two of The Santa Clause by
The Bechdel Cast News
Hosts And Creators
Caitlin Durante
Jamie Loftus
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