There's Something About Mary with Katy Stoll

There's something about this episode, and it's that this episode is about Caitlin and Jamie and special guest Katy Stoll talking about There's Something About Mary.

(This episode contains spoilers)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and
husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef in
best start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Oh boy,
there's something about terrible movie, don't you think, Caitlin, Yes,

(00:22):
I do think that. Wow. Hi, I'm Jamie Loftus, I'm
Caitlin Durante And this is the Bechtel Cast. It's our podcast, beloved,
I would say, but there's something about this podcast. There's
something about the Bechtel Cast. Is it that we are
emotionally abused in stocked all the time? Because anyways, this
is the Bectel Cast. It's our podcast about the betrayal

(00:45):
of women in movies. That sounds like betrayal be well,
movies usually betray women. Yes, yes, And we use the
Bechtel test as a jumping off point for discussion. But
what is that. Well, it's just a media metric that
is developed by cartoonist Allison Bechtel that you can apply
to a movie like there's something about Mary. For example,

(01:09):
a movie will pass said test if there are two
named female identifying characters who speak to each other about
something other than a man. Yes, so that here's an
example of it. Hey Caitlin, Hey Jamie, your hair is
so short and cute and great. Thank you. You're abiding
by the loftest rule. I am now the baldest woman

(01:32):
in charge. Yes, you're you did it. I think by
the time this episode comes out, I will have gotten
this haircut quite some time ago. But that's just a
little peak behind. At the time of this recording, I
got this haircut today. Yeah, it's fresh, fresh snips. There's
there's like hair particles on my shirt. Still like itchy

(01:53):
about I like it, And that passed to the Bechtel tests.
It really did. That was one of our better ones.
I honestly, I don't we're actually not that it's hard,
but also that it goes against everything we'd say in
every episode. But it is kind of we talked about
like appearances and beauty. So that wasn't that good of
a conversation. It counts, It counts. Yeah, we're great. Example,

(02:16):
Please don't Patreon. Let's introduce our guests. She is an actress,
a producer. You know her from Some More News and
she's a co host of the podcast Even More News.
It's Katie Stole. Hey, guys, welcome. I feel so welcome.
And I had to like quietly laugh so that I

(02:37):
didn't blow my cover. People knew somebody's here. I could
have laughed. You're very funny. I like your vibe. You Yeah,
there's we are beloved. So we had to navigate this
new hair vibe hab changed. Yeah, it looks so good.
Thank you so much. We'll post some pics if you

(02:58):
haven't seen them already, but we will. I don't know everyone. Yes,
by the time they hear this, they're like, that's old news.
Although maybe you'll have already gotten it retrimmed, so maybe
all have a shaved head by I was talking about
what this doesn't pass it up to the test, but
I was talking about it with Miles upstairs, and I
was like, the balls, woman's in charge. I'm gonna go

(03:19):
shave my head, or even better, decapitate myself and then
and then who's in charge. Then you'll win, yes, because
we are constantly in competition. Women are always in competition
with each other when we're not shopping, that is. Yeah,
So today's movie is there's something about Mary. They were

(03:40):
going to have to do it eventually, and the time
is now absolutely unbelievable, I unfathomably upsetting, like and and
worth saying. Considered by some I would I would doubt
this would make but shout out to the movie doubt
I as I always it. I have such doubts. But

(04:03):
by some this is considered one of the greatest comedy
movies ever produced by List of Best Comedies. They need
to revisit it. I mean Fairly Brothers more like the
Feminist Brothers. That's my first bad joke in my notes
is a singer there? I mean Later, one of the
men responsible for this movie went on to make Green Books.

(04:27):
The Atrocity is No No, No Bunts progressions for mm
starting with something about Mary and ending at green Book,
what's wrong? What kind of person do you have to be? Well?
Not long after this they made that movie The Ringer,
about Johnny Knoxville pretending to be someone with a developmental

(04:48):
disability so he can compete in the Special Olympics. The
Fairly Brothers, I would say, have and and it's very obvious.
And there's something about Mary too, But they have a
fixation on sing disabled like they have. It's I don't
know where this is rooted. In their lives. But it's
like they've made a career out of mocking disabled It's

(05:11):
not just one movie. Literally really from their childhood in
some capacity or like some I don't know, but there's
two major plot lines that involved that in this film.
And they also are they made dumb and dumber. They
made the movie you just described, they made uh shallow?
How a k fat shaming of the movie. Um they've

(05:32):
made They're responsible for so much harm in the world
and now one of them has an oscar for a
movie that many would consider harmful. It's you know, let's
talk about our history. But there is something about Mary Katy.
When did you for see it? What's your relationship to
the movie? Don't I mean, what year did this come out? Yeah,

(05:56):
so I was in middle school. I guess I saw it.
Then I remember having seen it. I also remember that
I didn't like it. I will say that I'm proud
of younger me for not liking it. Probably little Katie
knew what's up, But I don't have very many memories
of it other than thinking Cameron Diaz as a babe,
which is she is. She's a beautiful woman, which is true.

(06:17):
That is not the important takeaway. No, God, I watched it,
I would say probably three or four times as someone
who was about middle school aged, also because I was
I guess I would have been like twelve when it
came out, and I enjoyed it like my seventh grade year,

(06:40):
and then didn't watch it again since then. Yeah, so
totally forgot all of the horrible problems that are just
running rampant in this movie. But uh yeah, I did
see it at least a couple of times as a
younger person. I am horrified to admit, but I don't
even know if I thought it was funny. I think

(07:00):
it would just be like on its sleepovers or something.
I wasn't I never saw this movie out. I have
a horrible admission to make, which is that I did
laugh at exactly one scene in this movie when Ben
Stiller's fighting the dog. Did there's something funny? Well, because
the dog is clearly fake, Like there's something about the

(07:20):
way his little legs are sticking out that that's funny.
I know it's edited, it's all sped up, and you're like,
look a Ben, still are fighting this this like fucking taxidermy. Anyways,
that made me laugh, and I have to live with
that for the rest of my life. I mean, it's okay,
you've you've admitted it, and that's acceptance is the first
step in your recovery. We're all about processing here. Just

(07:44):
uh yeah, my history with this I was, I was not.
I definitely didn't see it when it came out. My
mom especially, it was very like not about raunchy comedies,
Like she was very against them, morally opposed to them.
And I don't think it was her, but I do
have like a memory of it. Could have been like

(08:04):
one of my friend's moms. But Peter and Bobby Fairly
are from New England famously, and someone's mom described them
as the worst of us. They're not wrong. I had
a sleepover. Yeah, so, um, I I hadn't seen I
don't think, honestly, I don't think I've ever seen a
Fairly Brothers movie at all, so this would have been.

(08:26):
I watched it the other day with a friend of
the cast, Melissa Losada Oliva, and uh, you know, there's
there's really not a good thing to be said about it.
I'll say that I liked Jonathan Richmond did the music,
and he's that guy that pops up. He's actually a
really I love him. You guys should check him out.

(08:47):
So when you first started to sing him like, is
that oh it is? Maybe this movie won't be so bad?
Never mind? Yeah, so I like that about it. That's fun.
I did like the dog fighting scene, and but I
didn't like the scene where they let the dog on fire.
Was kind of thickle with the dog scenes, there's two
different way too long, because the entire movie is way
too long. Why is a comedy movie longer than like minutes? Anyway,

(09:15):
it's a style of comedy. Also, that's like it's really
painful to watch where and I don't know if it's
just because it's not funny or but this situation where
you're like you just keep grinding in and this cringe
worthy scene and I feel like we've Maybe I'm wrong,
but it doesn't feel like a lot of our comedies
are that kind of comedy, do you know what I mean?

(09:35):
Lately it's yeah, more absurd or whatever, but just that like, oh,
this isn't funny, it's just painful. There are no jokes,
it's just gross out humor and it's all very stupid.
It's really a jube. And I feel like this like
because this sort of era of because there's a lot
of nineties and early two thousands comedies that like kind
of fit this bill, and then that sort of transitions

(09:56):
into jut Apatow comedies, which I also hate. Yes, so
it just sort of are also too long, and I
mean talk about just cut the camera. You don't need
to let everyone's improv sit on screen nine hours of
seth Rogan hits the cutting room floor every time. I
hate it. Okay, I'll do the recap. I guess this

(10:20):
wretched movie. Okay, it's we meet Ted. That's Ben Stiller's character.
He's in high school. He's a dweeb. They're doing a
whole pen fifteen thing at the beginning. Oh yeah, uh.
And there's this girl Mary. There's something about Mary that's
Cameron d as a character. She's hot and badly written.

(10:43):
That's the something that is thank you for putting your
finger on it. It's like, what is it about her?
Everyone thinks she's awesome. Ted's like, who's that? Hubba hubba?
But then his friend is like, oh no, she's got
this boyfriend named Woogie. Sure. Uh. Then payoff on that

(11:03):
is exhausting. H. Then there's an incident in the schoolyard
where some guys are bullying Mary's brother Warren, and Ted
steps into help. So then Mary's like, oh my god,
a man did a heroic thing. I'm just gonna automatically
like him now. Uh and she and this is the
first motif of abusing disabled people that appears, because it

(11:28):
is recurring. Bad Yeah, she asks him to prom. She's like, oh,
I've broken up with Woogie. Why don't we go to
prom together? And he's like, oh my god. But then
on the day of prom, there's this whole mishap and
then he accidentally zips his peepee and his balls into

(11:49):
his pants zipper. And I knew this was the only
thing I knew about this movie was that this happened,
Like this is the thing that everyone remembers. I didn't
even know about the whole hair com thing. Those are
the two big ones that come here and the zipper.
I knew about the zipper. That was it. I was like,
was that the something about Mary? So he tries to

(12:10):
fix it, it gets worse and then he's rushed away
in an ambulance and that's the last time that Ted
sees Mary. Cut to thirteen years later, he's recounting this
story to his therapist. There's like a weird gay joke
that continues into the following scene with Ted and his
friend Dom Chris Elliott's character Uh, And Ted's talking about

(12:33):
how he's still in love with Mary thirteen years later,
but she moved up in Miami, and beyond that, he
doesn't know how to find her. He literally doesn't know
anything about. This is definitely like a pre Facebook problem, right,
that's like, none of this happens now. You could cut
you could, I mean, you could kind of mercifully cut
out twenty minutes of the movie if there was Facebook,

(12:53):
because then you wouldn't have the whole p I lying
thing that takes it takes up so much time. You're
just like this, Ben Stiller is the star of this movie.
Where is he? For? Like, alf, He's not in the
first half of the movie hardly really at all, because
it's it's all Matt Dillon, and you're like, what Matt Dillon?
Why why is he agreeing to this? And and I

(13:17):
think a spectacular waste of Chris Elliott, who I think
is so funny, and man, I hope he got a
boat with this or something. Got a bone. Yeah, because
this is like, this is a this is not a
good look. No, it's not. He was in a bunch
of problematic stuff around this time. Solo stuff is great though. Yeah.
So then so Chris Ellis character dum recommends that Ted

(13:38):
higher Pat Healy Matt Dylan's character because he's a private investigator.
I guess he freelances this one or something. I don't like,
income something some sort of like you track down people
for money. I don't know. Well, the same like everyone's
job in this movie is kind of Uncleared Nolan's really
going to work. Ben Stiller leaves work what appears to

(14:00):
be indefinitely to stalk Cameron Dion. He's always like, I'm
a writer or trying to be So what do you
do for money? Right? Yeah, it's very And then also
like Cameron Diaz is like a doctor of Yeah, she's
an orthopedic surgeon. Absolutely you never see her. That infuriates

(14:20):
me because absolutely nothing about her is a person that's
observant or you know, she cares. I mean she cares
about people and stuff, but she's not she doesn't present
as an academic. And then they just give it one
scene in her office where she walks in and walks out,
and but that could be an office for anything. Yeah, exactly,

(14:42):
But they just dropped, Oh yeah, she's an orthopedic surgeon.
She's great. I feel like, yeah, I feel like that
is at best. That's like the Farilies being like see
like feminist, because absolutely we do believe women can be doctors.
She has it all, she looks perfect, and she the
doctor god, but only one of those is relevant to

(15:03):
I mean, she's a woman in stem and she is
characterized as being a fucking dumbass. But we'll talk all
about that, Okay. So pat heally finds Mary and he
immediately is like, hubba, hubba, who's that? Because she's hot?
Hubbs today, you know there's there's more to come. She's hot,

(15:28):
she's unmarried, she works with people with disabilities. Uh, and
you know there's just something about her. So he falls
in over there immediately, and which just means she's hot,
like and exactly, there's like there's something about her. It's
like all these guys who don't know her are falling
in love with her. So it's like, I wonder what.

(15:48):
So then he tells Ted a bunch of lies to
make him not interested. In her, and that's a scene
that we have to unpack. And then heally moves to
Miami so that he can try to go and make
a move on Mary because he's a freelance detective or something.
And then he lies about himself a lot to make

(16:10):
him seem more appealing to Mary, and then she falls
for it based on all the things that he's spier
her say that she wants this for me. Is where
Mary's character tips from being kind and perfect to being stupid.
She remains for the rest of the movie. Yes, it's

(16:31):
very upsetting. It's very upsetting. Yeah. So then he takes
her on a date. And then this is where we
meet Tucker, a friend of Mary's. You know, he's sizing
healy up and he's the thing about him is he's
British and disabled and also to say that turns into
a whole thing. Lots more to talk about there as well. Um.

(16:54):
So meanwhile Ted hears from his friend, who is a
chiropractor who we meet earlier in the mo be throwaway
character who cares but really there for exposition, right, um,
that Mary is actually a fox because he saw her recently.
So Ted decides to go to Miami because if Mary's hot,
he has to go look at her. Maybe that's the

(17:15):
one time that being an orthopedic surgeon is plot relevant
because the reason the chiropractor saw her, he's like, well,
you know, she's anopedic surgeons, so I saw her. The
comfile doesn't make sense because the reason the reason Ted
goes to a chiropractor is that we see him moving furniture,
which I guess is his job but we don't really know.
But that all just feels so wedged in so that

(17:36):
we have an excuse for him to hear about Mary
through another source. But like, it's just horrible writing, another
thing that could have been rectified by poisonous social media
being present at this time. Yes, so Ted, he's on
his way to Miami, but he gets arrested because a
hitchhiker that he picks up leaves a hacked up dead

(17:57):
body in his car, and that is also in the
same scene where it's again no time for now, And
why has that involved in this? Why why it's an
extended like homophobic that is sick and has nothing to
do with anything other than earlier on they'd made that

(18:20):
gay joke about how rest stops are We're gay people
hook up and then and you gotta payoff on that
with an extended homophobic raid on gay men. Yeah, we'll
unpack all of that. And then he gets to Miami
and he stalks Mary until she notices him, and then

(18:42):
he's like, oh, hey, longtime, no see. Let me take
you out to dinner so that we can catch up,
and she agrees to it. And then Chris Elliott's character
is like, oh, Ted, you got a jerk off before
your date and he's like, oh, oh okay, I'll touch
my ppe. They sound like fourteen year olds, right. And

(19:05):
then Tucker, Mary's friend, goes to Mary and he's like, Hey,
this Pat Healy guy that you've been seeing, he's a murderer.
But then we find out that Tucker also isn't who
he says he is. He's not a British architect's disabled.
He's putting on a whole act to get closer to
Mary because he is also in love with her. Because again,

(19:27):
there's something about Mary. It's just like every person who
falls in love with her, the amount that they have
lied and the amount of their life they have sunk
into that lie increases, and it's still gets worse from
there somehow all right, Right, So then Mary and Ted

(19:49):
go on a date and she accidentally puts his jizz
in her hair. Again, she's a fucking idiot or written
to be that ways, like she didn't look in the
mirror afterwards. Who also just grabs a glob of something
off someone else's ear, You're just like, this is it
was also a huge glob even if that was gel,

(20:10):
it's too much. It comes that much. And then also,
well that's I mean, what's sick is the consistency. No,
that is not the consistency of come. Who is who
is doing props on this movie that wasn't come? No,
or maybe there's me, I know, come as a come
Conda actually off and contributed to Come for that shot. No,

(20:33):
I bet one of the Fairly brothers just gave a
bucket of their own disgusting, viscous come. And they're like,
this is what com is. I'm so sorry saving it
for months. Oh god, Yeah, They're like this is really
congealed and become a solid. Oh my god, I'm sick. Okay,
So she puts jews in her hair. It's supposed to
be funny, and then she just has a like a

(20:55):
mohawk to the date like you do, right, And then
Pat Healy and Tucker whose real name is Norm, team
up to try to stop Ted from getting with Mary
because again they're both in love with Mary. Uh. And
then they drug Mary's neighbor Magda, who's another person will
talk about. They drug her dog dog, and then we

(21:21):
have the second scene of the movie where we see
just flagrant animal cruelty. That did make you laugh, Jamie,
So that's on you. It's so clearly fake, Cait, don't
cancel me over. The dog is funny looking, sure it is. Listen,
I'll throw a Melissa under the bus. Two we were laughing,

(21:42):
not the part where the dog is set on fire.
I didn't like that. When he fights the goofy dog,
I laughed. And I don't want to talk about it anymore.
I'll never bring you up again. Okay. So then Ted
and Mary they're continuing to see each other, they're getting closer,
but then Mary finds out that Ted hired Pat Healey
to spy on her, and she's like, get out of here, Ted,

(22:05):
So then he goes to confront Healey about it, who
is still hanging out with Norm. And then he discovers
the norm has a long history of trying to get
rid of men that Mary has been involved with. And
then we find out that Chris Elliott's character Dom is
Mary's high school boyfriend Woogie, who she had to like

(22:26):
get a restraining order against because he was stalking her.
This is revealed as something very funny, right, like it
is supposed to be in the joke that movie has
been leading up to this whole big payoff. Finally and
we're and this is also supposed to explain why Chris
Elliott has been covered in disgusting hives for most of
the movie. Sure so, then all the men who are

(22:52):
obsessed with her converge in her house, including Brett Farve. Okay,
so she was. He was the ex fiance that Younorm
had driven away. Also, a fun fact about Brett Farve
is that he was like the fourth choice for the

(23:12):
wanted Yeah, they wanted Drew Bled, so they wanted Drew Bled.
So he was. He was a New England Patriot. That's
the only reason I know he is. But anyways, Brett
Farve was like choice number four. All good for him.
Sure Ted is like, all right, I'm gonna go Mary.
You should just be with Brett Farve. But Mary sees

(23:34):
how good Ted is and like just Warren likes it.
I mean, she thinks that he's good. The movie has
been telling us the whole time. Ted is good, Yes,
and he deserves he deserves the prize of Mary. And
she falls for it and she's like, I would be

(23:56):
happiest with you, and then they kiss, and that is
how the movie ends. Let's take a quick break and
then we'll come right back to discuss Cold Shower and

(24:16):
we're bad. Okay, So to begin, the title of this
movie blames all of the events of the movie on
the title character. That's something that we simply love. It's egregious, right.
I also would argue that the title of this movie

(24:36):
is just another way of saying she's not like the
other girls. I think so too, But I think but like,
I think it's even worse than that. It's just like
almost like she needs to be held accountable for this.
There's something about her that we can't control ourselves around.
And yeah, we're just good guys that lost our mind
for Mary. If she wasn't like this, we wouldn't be

(24:58):
acting this way. Just a few words before we get
into like the characters I did a little background research
about because I was just like, there has to, at
this point in time be some bad press about the
Fairly Brothers. Um And there is a little bit, not
as much as you would expect given what they have

(25:20):
unleashed upon the world. But the Fairly Brothers did. I
forget which Fairly it is. I'm pretty sure it's Peter. Honestly,
doesn't matter. I don't care. I'm pretty sure it's Peter.
But the there was kind of a frenzy around them
at this time. They were like the hot comedy directors
of this moment. So there's a lot of glowing press

(25:40):
written about them at the time that people dug up
twenty years later and we're like, fuck, this is gross.
I would like to share it. So and Peter Fairly
had to, you know, really swerve away from a cancelation.
Ahead of the release of Green Book um So, an
article from and Newsweek promoting the movie describes the quote

(26:02):
sick pranks that the brothers enjoyed while quoting Cameron Diaza
saying quote, when a director shows you his penis the
first time you meet him, You've got to recognize the
creative genius and what the fuck? I also, I mean
I would I in defense of Cameron, I mean, what
is she supposed to do at this time? What options

(26:23):
does she have? And like that story probably wasn't received.
Everyone's like, yeah, you're right, that's funny, Like yeah, this
was this was perceived as okay at this time. So
I don't alter that against her at all, but like, yikes. Um.
She's quoted in a two thousand article and The Observer saying, quote,

(26:44):
I just adore those guys. Bobby's a little more shy.
He doesn't pull his penis out as much. That's Peter's behavior,
Bobby moons us um. According to another article and The Observer,
Peter Fairley says he's pulled his penis out at least
five hundred times. So there's likes me so mad. They're
the fucking worst. Uh last year, Peter Fairley, let me

(27:06):
see if I can find imagine him now on his sets.
It's just not the same. You just can't pull out
your dick whenever you want. No, he does just like
a lameo apology. He says, last year, I was an idiot.
I did this decades ago, and I thought I was
being funny, and the truth is I'm embarrassed. It makes
me cringe. Now I'm deeply sorry, which is I mean,

(27:27):
at least he addressed it, but this is like, fuck you,
you're he's he's done too many shitty things like he
did have to. I mean, I don't know. I'm like,
at least he had to be confronted with it. But
so so all that to say they're as bad as
they seem, there's bet as their movies would make them
sound like, and uh, they're whipping their dicks out at

(27:48):
the cast. It sounds like constantly five hundred times. Um.
So that that's the t on ship Heads. The Fairly
Brothers are some helpful contexts. Thank you. That's Jamie's context corner.
Thank you so much. You're welcome. So, I mean, should

(28:11):
we just start with Mary. Let's start with Mary. Let's
start with Mary. There's something about her is the thing?
Um so she the thing that's not that makes her
so special? And again like not like the other girls.
Is that in many movies where people try to do this,
they basically just take a like flat, underdeveloped female character

(28:33):
and give her traditionally masculine interests or trades to make
her seem cool and again not like the other girls,
because she likes football, she likes to golf, she wants
to be taken to the big game and eating corn dogs.
And have to talk about that scene because that scene
is so the corn dog scene, the scene where she

(28:54):
talks about the corn dogs with like with Sarah Silverman
sa friends. So that scene just just because I had
to go back and watch it twice to be like
that really did happen where we we try to pay
attention to, like when our women shown eating in movies
because it never happens. And that is a scene where
she's at some like bistro with her friends. There they're

(29:16):
a brunch because women be at brunch. They're all eating salad.
They're all eating salad. And Mary who as we know,
I mean, she's Cameron Diaz. She is Western beauty standards
to the you know, most egregious extent. She's very thin, uh,
and she says, I want a guy to play thirty
six holes with and still have enough energy to bring
me in warre into a ballgame. Sausage, hot dogs, and beer,

(29:39):
not light beer, real beer. So she's like, truly, I mean,
the guy's Galreda there, but she's saying this like, oh,
I just want to eat and drink as she is
sitting in front of the salad, and none of the
women in the scene even eat a bite of the salad.
It is unhinged. Yeah, yeah, it made me crazy as

(30:03):
what a hollow piece of ship thing that is because
if because like if a woman of any other size
had said that line, it would have been played as
a joke. But because it is like this extremely thin
says had white ladies saying it, and she's not like
in the back of your head, and it's like she's

(30:24):
not actually going to do that. It's that's the thing
about her, is that she's that there's something. There's something
about her, is she she's presented as being this like
guy's gal, not like the other girl's type. But she
fits the mold of exactly what is considered quote an
ideal woman based on you know, Western standards of beauty

(30:47):
and appeal because she's thin, she's conventionally attractive, she's blonde,
she's rich, like upper class, like, she's all these things
that fit into this like rigid mold. She's everything. But
she's cool. But you know, she can hang with the guys,
she wants a man. Yeah, just I agree with you, guys.

(31:07):
Another way that I think that this, like this sort
of stock character is formed is because the guys in
the movie are portrayed as like losers, and so, like
a lot of movie quote unquote losers, they think that
they're entitled to women that don't want to have sex
with them. Um. And the way that this is sort

(31:28):
of avoided is like anytime there's a very attractive woman
in a movie who who turns out to be nice
to everyone, uh, that is very fetishized, even when it's
not logical for them to be nice, because I feel
like there's the opposite of that is like the very
hot lady who doesn't have the time of day for

(31:49):
for the losers, and she's a bit so the fact
that Mary would like deign to talk to them is like,
we'll stop you for decades. It's like, yeah, so there
is something about her there. That's the thing we've talked
about how she's just so I don't want to call
a woman dumb, you know, but it's she's she's written

(32:10):
by four men, so it's just hard not to like, yeah,
completely unobservant, does not pick up on these obvious lies
that are happening all around her throughout her life. Also,
we didn't this stood out to me? Why didn't she
learn her lesson about like changing in front of windows?
Three different times in the movie she dresses or undresses

(32:32):
in front of wide open windows. Believable. This happens in
movies all the time. Have you ever done this? I,
for one, closed my shades. I'm ter closed my blinds. Yeah. Well,
I've got a weird neighbor across the street that was
being like always around asking me out, and I realized
my windows were like right into his house, So I

(32:53):
always closed my blind Yeah. No, I always, always, always,
even when I'm like home alone, I will close my blinds.
I just know. And I don't want to sound like
we're victim blaming or anything like that, because she is
a victim of being spied on and lied to in
many of these scenes. What we're saying is that because
she's an underdeveloped female character who is written by men,

(33:14):
she is behaving in a way that probably no woman
would actually behave, or really any person would behave, regardless
of their gender. Yeah, those scenes are just clearly only
in the movie. Written into the movie to satisfy the
male gaze, because her behavior just makes absolutely no sense,

(33:35):
and it's just so wildly unrealistic. It's exhausting. It's fucking exhausting.
It is there, and there's the first time that's done
is during like the flashback sequence when they're teenagers, and
there's just like this little like shitty fairly brother's message
where Ted is gazing at birds and fantasizing about what
a crush he has unmarry, and then he looks up

(33:57):
and Mary and her mom think that he was gazing
at her, and and then he's like, no, it wasn't
like that, and they're like, oh my god. And it's
just like there's like that little message that like, guys
aren't actually leering at you. They're looking at a bird.
You're being a bit you're overreacting, Heyted that But if

(34:20):
I had that experience at eighteen, I probably even if
if I thought the guy was staring at me, I
probably would learn my lesson from it, just like right,
But she doesn't, but she does continues to get naked
in front of her wide open windows. Something about her, Yeah,
there's a lot of some things about her. Here's a
couple more we already talked about the person who just

(34:44):
grabs a glob of goo off of someone's ear thinks
that it's also how did it get there? And again
what the fund is that consistency? But anyway, so she
likes very sez the jizz and she's like, oh, better
run this through my hair and leave it there, and
like not look in the mirror and leave it there.
And then she's also repeatedly given information that Pat Healy

(35:07):
is a bad person. She like finds out he lied
about a bunch of stuff, but then he's like, oh,
I just like I do because I wanted you to
like me or blah blah blah, and then she's like, oh,
you're right, and then like falls for even moralizes. She
also watches him violently pushed down a bunch of people
with disabilities while they're all playing like touch football, and

(35:27):
she's just like she's just like, oh, that's just what
he's like there. Okay, I mean, there's a large discussion
to be had about disability in this movie and in
The Fairly Brothers or whatever fun you say that word.
But there's there's so much and we're also like we'll

(35:47):
just say at the top, like we totally opened this
discussion to our listeners, and if you have any insights
or like strong opinions on this, we definitely want to
hear it, because we're sort of just reacting to it. Um.
But I felt like, because we haven't really talked about
this yet, but Mary's brother, Warren Um, has an intellectual disability.

(36:09):
I felt like that character's disability was there mostly to
make Mary seem nice, because she was so she was
very good to him and very empathetic to him, which
is a good thing to see on screen. But it
just it just felt like slimy and exploitative because at
the very beginning of the movie, like you said, like

(36:29):
like ben Stiller's character stands up for Warren when he's
being bullied, and you know, ben Stiller stands up for him,
which which is good on paper, but again, it just
feels like his intellectual disability is just being used to
show how nice the people who are not intellectually disabled are.
We don't get any I mean, we don't get any

(36:50):
look into his life. I feel certain that no research
was done Um, because it's just so it's I mean,
and it's just exploitative because it's just used as a
narrative shorthand to explain what the something about Mary is.
She isn't openly cruel to her intellectually disabled brother. Wow,

(37:10):
Like it's just oh, it's so gra it is so gross.
And there's almost no disability visibility in mainstream Hollywood movies.
It's just virtually absent, which is why this is so
egregious when it is. When it is present, it's often
not handled well most of the Fairly Brothers movies because
like it's the joke, I mean, characters, characters with disabilities

(37:34):
will be played by actors who do not have those disabilities,
which is the case for this movie, and then we
get some really extremely cringe worthy performances because of that.
And then the characters with disabilities are often shown as
being very helpless, dependent, and competent. And then the disability,
like you said, will often be the butt of a
joke or the character will be mistreated, exploited, bullied, or

(37:59):
other in some way. So this is sort of like
what the groundwork that's been laid by mainstream Hollywood, and
that's like that's extended to the point where when Mary
is an adult, she volunteers with intellectually disabled people and
which starts out fine, and then quickly the second Matt
Dylan enters, the picture just becomes a nightmare. And it's

(38:22):
like they have some amount of awareness. They're like like, Okay,
I'm not going to say the word, but he calls
them our word, r word, and she says, I'm not
sure that that's really politically correct, and then he keeps
behaving like that and we move on, and so it's
like there's like this like knowledgement. It's like it's almost
worse when you're like, I know that this is wrong,

(38:44):
and we're doing it anyway, do you know what I mean? Like,
and then she like stands her ground for a brief moment,
but then like is won over by this creep and
then like later kisses him and stuff. Well that's the
end of the line, right, you let it go far enough? Yeah,
And that like the point where her character for me
completely disappeared and went from like attractive, successful woman to

(39:06):
be desired to that plus just completely irrational. Yeah, it's
and then Warren is the one main character with a
disability who we really get to know at all. I mean,
with with Tucker, he's faking it, so that doesn't count. Um, though,
and there's also also the way they portrayed that whole

(39:29):
scene in the office with the keys and like struggling
to get this supposed to be it's obviously supposed to
be funny, and it absolutely isn't, you know. It's so
cringeing and horrible. So so Warren becomes like sort of
he's like the representative of all people with disabilities basically
for this movie. And then the way that that is framed,

(39:52):
in the way that he's treated and the things that
that character is made to do in the story, just
like it's just all so not good. It's bad. Yeah,
And then and then I guess the last thing I
have to say about the Tucker character is that he,

(40:13):
I mean not just like perpetuates the idea that you know,
he basically says he was like, oh, I was pretending
to be disabled to stay close to you. But it's
it's sending the message that disabled people are not desirable
in any way. And that is like what that's literally
what he says, and that was why he was doing that.

(40:35):
It's just I mean, it's like the mental gymnastics the
writers of this movie had to do and the amount
of like prejudice they had to go in with is staggering, right, Well,
that might be This might be a good time to
talk about that scene where Matt Dylan's character is describing
to Ted what Mary is like. He's lying, but all

(40:55):
the things he says to make her seem unappealing our
base stically just like body shaming, slut shaming, disability shaming.
Because he's like, oh, she she weighs two and fifty
pounds because according to this movie, being fat equals being
bad and unattractive. He says that she is a mother,
which is just I guess made to be unattractive. He

(41:20):
says that she has has had many different partners and
has four children to three different men, which is slut shaming.
She uses a wheelchair, just just shaming with disabilities again,
that she lives in a housing project, which is code
for that she is low income, and then that's also
bad there. It's it really is the what's what things

(41:43):
to be shamed. And then later he's like, oh, she's
going to Japan to be a male order bride, and
then Ted says, what are they desperate? She's a whale.
So he has to then get in on this horrible
behavior and then the way that that is like the
next and then it's like, you know, ted is you know,
leaves that an interaction being like, oh man, oh I

(42:06):
thought I wanted her to be the way I wanted
her to be. And then he later decides, you know what,
in spite of all that, I'm such a good guy
that I want to see her anyways. And that's one
of the many ways that this movie is like he's
actually really nice, and when you're just like, no, he's
fucking right terrible, He's awful, Like that's the best they

(42:28):
can do to paint a nice guy. Hired a private
investigator to find somebody hasn't talked to him in thirteen
or fifteen years, however long it's been, right, what is
wrong with him that he is still in love with
a girl that he knew thirteen years ago, who he
barely knew then. I curious none of us will be

(42:49):
able to answer this. But like we said, this is
pre Facebook problems, But like, was this charming them? Like
the idea of someone needing to look you up out
of the blue and hire someone to try keep down
even though she's gone anonymous because she had a stalker
so she didn't want to be found? But is that charming?
I think that at this time it was still like

(43:12):
a viable movie tool, Like there's so much like stocky,
romantic stocky, but this one is, like, I mean, this
one is like insane. I just wonder if any woman,
if none of the other bad stuff had happened, if
Healy hadn't gone rogue and all this stuff, if if
that seems like a romantic gesture two people in the nineties.
We don't have that answer, but I just kept asking

(43:34):
myself that I guess. I mean, we were also fucked
up in the nine Like, I mean, this is just
such a stalker narrative. And it's also confusing because Ben
Steller's character Ted will acknowledge that a lot of the
stuff that people are suggesting to him, like hiring a

(43:55):
private investigator and stuff like that, is creepy and stalkers.
He says that, but then he goes through with it
every time. I think, yeah, but it seems like the
Fairly Brothers just like, well, if he acknowledged that it
was weird, but they not makes it okay exactly Like
he's not. He doesn't think like that. He just doesn't
think why is he pining after a woman who he

(44:17):
hasn't seen in their teen years and barely new in
the first place. I mean, that is very weird. It
is we got to take another quick break. Let's we
do need a break. We've learned it, We're back, okay,

(44:38):
let's I'm ready to get into the homophobic movie. Why
not Mary herself? I mean, there's like the excited scene.
But once Mary and Ted started hanging out, Mary herself
makes like a bad homophobic joke. She jokes about being
bisexual m to Ted, who is like, oh, well, I

(45:01):
guess I could be okay, and then she's like, I'm
just fucking with you, And so that is just like
what was that ever? Funny? Like uh uh gros so
edgy guys, it's so edgy that they are making these jokes.
Peter Farrelly is like on the other side of the
camera with his literal dick out, like you're just like,

(45:24):
do we need more calm? Because you gotta more disgusting
viscus calm. You gotta jerk off before a date because like,
if you like go on a date with your balls
full of calm, it's like going out there with a
loaded gun. And the reason right, And the reason that like,
you feel better after you come is because after you've come,

(45:48):
your jus everywhere it makes you think like a girl,
and girls like that hate it. I'm paraphrasing, but honestly,
I just like wrote down for them, like not even
going to try to unpack that, Like, I don't know
what the funk that's supposed to mean. I don't want
to know. I don't care. I just I just I

(46:10):
do like wish unhappiness and lack of success on the
Farely Brothers. Um, someone steals that Oscar, it won't affect him,
Let's do it, put it on this podcast. We're implicated now, Um, okay, yes,
So there's that horrible joke that Mary makes, um, you know,

(46:30):
turning bisexuality into the butt of a joke. Um, there's
the whole thing that we already talked about where the
joke is set up in Ted's therapist office, where the
therapists like, oh, you go to rest stops. You know
that those are homosexual hangouts there the bathhouses of the
nineties for many many gay men, is what he says.

(46:51):
And then oh, a few scenes later, Chris Elliott's character
is talking to Ben Stiller and he's like, well, you know,
you are a writer and writer artists, and most artists
are a little fufie. That's fuf fufie what. And then
this all pays off whenever Ted pulls over to pe

(47:13):
at a rest area and then stumbles upon what's essentially
a huge orgy of gay men having sex in like
the shrubs, the shrubbery. And then that scene concludes with
the reveal that Chris Elliott is watching cops and receiving
oral sex from his wife. We had to talk about

(47:33):
his wife character. To talk about his wife character character
made me so angry and all the women, Okay, so
Mary is this, Yeah, you're perfect on paper, gal, gorgeous,
but also one of the guys. Chris Elliot's wife. We
first meet her serving them beers, going inside they want
cook cookies, giving him a blow job, and I was

(47:54):
I think I was just saying this to you were
like at first when I'm watching it, I was very
angry and I was like, hold on, maybe there's gonna
be some sort of payoff where she leaves him. Nope,
nothing never addressed that, just one and he's actively trying
to cheat on her, like just horrible. And then he
so in the blow jobs saying, she comes up into
frame and she's like, see, I knew Ted was gay,

(48:17):
and then he shoves her head back down and I
was just like, oh, my fucking god. Also, there's zero
self awareness of what that represents, obviously, because even in
that first scene when we meet her and she's serving
the beers and cookies and stuff, and Chris Elliott's character
what's his name at that point was like, yeah, this

(48:39):
is the life, and Ben Stiller's like, yeah, that's what
I want. I want to you want that, you want
to domesticated servant basically who is a baby factory, because
that is how his wife is presented in this movie. Horrifying.
It's really, it's really not good. Yeah, and she only

(49:00):
shows up three times before we find out that Chris
Elliot's character is stalking Mary also, which I think is
a fun segue into the stalking motif. Yes, one last
quick moment of homophobia where so Ted is arrested and
then as he's being let out of jail, there's like

(49:22):
this big guy on the prison cell bed like he's
like spooning him, and that's also like played as like
a oh, how gross that poor little Ted has to
have a man wrapped around him. Yeah, yeah, and that
like people and I mean the homophobic stereotypes around prisoners
and just it's none of it's good. Also, that has

(49:44):
literally no place in the movie at all. Why is
the whole thing? Also, if they needed to have Dom's
character there, like he could have just gone on the
road trip with that, you know what I mean, Like
this whole thing didn't need to happen, and again would
have made the movie much shorter and more pleasant. It's
so long. I don't know if anything will make this
movie pleasant. Really, it all goes um the stalking narratives.

(50:10):
I think by the end there's how many four or
five men who have been stalking deceiving line to her
is well, we don't know if Brett Farve has been
stalking her or not, so I think it's four. She's
got to be have some real damage here. I mean,
it implies it that one of the things that I
was like, oh, that's so like it's just I mean,

(50:31):
it's all very fucking bizarre. But she it does sound
like she like says she's been traumatized by it. She
like changes her name and like on lists from herself
from like the phone books and stuff. So when and
this is again like GE's packed with a rationality because
when Ted goes to see her, he has driven the
coast to go and see her in Miami, and then

(50:54):
he's just like, hey, so I'm here, what's up? And
she is explaining like she is anxious about hanging out
with him because she had she she doesn't give the details,
but she was like, something happened in college. I was stalked.
It was really bad. I had to change my name
and move and so I'm just not comfortable doing stuff

(51:15):
like that. Um. The irrational part I felt like was like,
why is she not concerned about why he's here and
has found her already? But I mean, she says that
she has been traumatized by this, and then it happens
to her four times at once. It's just so like
and that scene where they're all there, so okay, they

(51:39):
all they will he's there and they come running to
her rescue, and then Ben Stiller shows up Ted with
Brett Farve and there's this whole scene and he's just like,
here's the guy for you, and I know that that
she ultimately doesn't, but she's not overwhelmed by this or
her reaction to all of these men being there is

(52:00):
so like blase and like her female roommate is there
and also doesn't really react to the fact that this
has happening, Like it's all like she's just like, oh
my god, this is so crazy. I don't know. And
it's like we're supposed to think what's going through her
head during that is like who do I pick? And
not like I should call the police. Also, one more stalker,

(52:21):
the guy that that mag does sucking. Oh yes, I
was to get closer to Mary Dad. It's it's so horrible.
And so the whole like long play of this movie
is that Chris Elliott was woogie the whole time, and
that he's been obsessed with Mary for many years. He

(52:42):
breaks out into hives when he which is very which
is another like there's something about implication of like what
she is and who she is. She's so awesome that
she'll give you an allergic reaction and it's her fault
that he has this skin condition whatever, but like and

(53:05):
and you know, like she rightfully rejects him. It's kind
of framed that she's going to reject him, which we
get unpacked, but I don't really want to. And then
and and because the point is this character is breaking
the law by being in this apartment because she has
a restraining order against him and it's for every time
it comes up. He's like, oh, well whatever, and like

(53:27):
that that's how it's brought up. And then at the
end when she rejects him, it looks like, you know,
there's that whole thing where like, oh, she doesn't know
who to pick, and then they tell her who to pick.
They're like, actually, Brett far so she doesn't. She doesn't.
It almost ends with her not getting to choose. So
they tell her her to choose and she's kind of

(53:47):
like okay, and then christly it pops back up and
then he's like, Brett, could you sign this, like pump
this shoe for the wife and kids? And then uh,
Mary says what and then he says, oh, shut up
cock tease and like ha ha ha is breaking the law.
And so get her response to I would imagine she

(54:10):
would have some sort of like maybe post traumatic stress,
you know, the triggering of this trauma. Yeah, but instead
she's just like weird crazy. She's definitely not you is
my new boyfriend? Like she changed your name and left
the state, and she does go out, so yes, you're right,

(54:31):
like there it almost ends without her having any agency.
And then she comes running out after him to give
and makes the worst to get to give him his keys,
and then ends up. I'd be happiest with you. You
don't have to choose any of these men. She shouldn't
to choose. They should all be in jail. And there's another,
I mean, yet another infuriating moment where the movie is

(54:53):
trying to humanize Ted is at the end of that
scene when they told Mary who were new boy for
end is Brett farve. Ted makes this big speech and he,
you know, he says, like, I'm no better than these guys.
They don't love you. They're just fixated on you because
of how you make them feel about themselves. True. That's

(55:15):
not love, that's I don't know what that is. True.
So there is like this moment where he says the
first true thing we've heard in the whole movie, and
then he leaves, which you know, could have been a
choice the movie could have made that might have made sense.
Mary could have called the cops and then she could

(55:36):
have moved on with her life. Or something like that
if Mary had some agency, he realizes this was very wrong.
I'm lucky. I'm not enjoying to prison, like, let me
never do this again. But that's not what happens. Instead,
like by being self aware for one second, he is
rewarded with the trophy of Mary because he's the only

(55:59):
one who just waid a dialogue line worth of self
awareness that said that he shouldn't be with her because
he's been stalking her. And then then and then it's
just it was my read. Also because right before he leaves,
he pulls Warren's like headphones away from his ear and

(56:20):
then she is like, oh, that must mean that Warren
trusts him. That's my signal that Ted is the best
guy after all, which like another exploitation exactly, very exploitive,
and then another like I don't think we see like
Ted earning Warren's trust, like why would he? And like

(56:41):
even if that were the case, like he doesn't deserve
anybody's trust because again, he hired someone to stalk her
and then he started stalking herself, right, so like like
she has no agency. I think Mary is the most
passive female main character in a move possibly ever, like

(57:01):
she everything happens to her. She doesn't make any active
choices on her own. I would say the only thing
she does is maybe ask him to prom like that's
the one act of choice she makes. But like other
than that, she does nothing. It's everything, all these like
creepy things happening to her, I just not doing anything.

(57:22):
It's so this is a stressful episode. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know, it's my first one, but my heart
has been like a little bit in my high and
usually we usually have more fun. I mean, there's just
so much with this movie too, that it's like I
I spent the whole time angry, and I couldn't watch

(57:44):
it in one setting. I started watching it and I
got halfway through and it was like, there's an hour left.
I can't. I can't finish this right now. Like I
got a hat, I got a headache in the middle
of the movie, and yeah, I had to watch it
in two parts. It's just it's it's just like it's
really wholesive. There's not one redeemable thing about the except

(58:05):
for Jonathan Richmond. I guess I made a list of
three things that I didn't absolutely hate. Would you like
to hear them? Yes, okay. I do like that Mary
is the one to ask Ted to prom because I
always appreciate seeing a woman taking initiative in like a
romantic situation, because straight women are conditioned to be passive
and weight around for men to ask them out. But

(58:27):
she only did that because her brother was taken advantage
of by the plot. Right, good point, and so maybe
not so good after all. The second thing is that
Mary's stepdad, who we meet in one scene, is a
black guy, and there are no weird jokes made about that.
Apparently is the joke. There's that moment at the front

(58:49):
door where like a black man answers the door, and
just like, I must not be in the right place,
because could a black man be in this house of
white people? So yep, never mind strike it from the record.
He hit us with one more let's see, let's im down.
This also won't not good, um, I said. At least
Ted doesn't lie whenever she asks if he hired Pat

(59:14):
Healey to spy on her. He lies for a second
and then he comes clean right away. I feel like
a lot of movies would have had him lie for
a pretty extended amount of time, but he instead says yeah,
I did do that, but he just lies about other things.
He didn't have to. He could have come clean immediately,
just said, oh my god. Here's the thing about heally,

(59:35):
I thought about you this whole time, and I hired him,
and now he fell in love with you, and I'm
really sorry. You know what I mean, Does he say that?
I think he does. I mean when the first time
he sees her. I just I hate when movies like
present you with a group of men and then the
female character is, by the movie forced to choose the

(59:56):
one who is the least awful, even though they're still off,
because a lot of the men in this movie are
like cartoonishly bad, like I think Chris Elliott and Matt Dylan,
even though their behavior has happened, but they're the way
they like, it's very cartoony, the way that their characters act,
and like they're breaking out in hives and they're shoving

(01:00:16):
people and they're doing all this like very physically goofy stuff.
And so ben Stiller's presented as the least bad of him,
which is true, but like he's still not a good
from the movies own admission. The only reason she broke
up with him, is because Tucker had poisoned it and

(01:00:37):
said a lie. So actually he was. Maybe Brett is
the best of them. I think he is. And he didn't,
as far as we know, didn't didn't try to convince her,
let her go when she broke up with this, truly
accepted her decision and then but still loved her and
showed up even though this is a crazy story. And uh,

(01:00:58):
why did he show up? Why did he show up?
Because Ben Stiller somehow got him on the phone. You know,
I just called on the horn. I don't know. Expectedly,
I like to bring up Rodery Ebert, my enemy. Yeah,
because he can't clap back at me because he's dead.
He gave this movie three out of four stars, saying

(01:01:20):
what a blessed relief is laughter. It flies in the
face of manners, values, political correctness, and decorum. It exposes
us for what we are. The only animal with a
sense of humor, First of all, I have met a
lot of animals with sense of humor, so secondly horrifying.

(01:01:42):
Just like to remind everyone that got broughten tomatoes. Oh yeah, people,
I mean, which, which goes back to our discussion of
like why people who are not just like straight white
dude should review movies, because then you know, this movie
had a twenty three million dollar budget, made three hundred

(01:02:04):
seventy million dollars the box office. It was it was
hugely successful. And this movie was made off of the
success of Dumb and Dumber, which I don't even want
to think about. I'm sure I'll do an episode on
it one day that now I'll cancel the show. I refused.

(01:02:25):
They made a sequel like a couple of years ago,
and people I have to rewatch it just because I'll
do an episode by myself. I'm going to watch it, Okay, Okay,
we'll be my guest co host. I just I'm putting
a kabash on Farrely Brothers movies. God, well, there's a
few more horrible things to talk about, shall we u

(01:02:46):
ages M definitely get it all. Magda so she is
Mary's neighbor. They don't technically live together, but she's constantly
over at Mary's place because because she's old, she's made
to seem lonely and pathetic. Essentially, that's how this movie
feels about people who are older. Well, there's like that

(01:03:08):
huge visual gag made at her expense with the male gaze.
There are so many shots of like Matt ma g
Another windows shot, Matt Dilan is trying to lear it
Mary with binoculars because he's a great detective and he's
sitting literally outside her house with binoculars, very subtle, and

(01:03:29):
he's trying to look at it like Kanu Reeves and
point break when he's just constantly like Tim and undercover
FBI agent. Let me, I mean, I mean, I know
I'm in broad daylight, but let me just get out
my binoculars and look around anyway, go on. I love him. So, yeah,

(01:03:50):
Matt Dilan is trying to lear it Mary with his binoculars,
but he misfires because he's stupid, and he accidentally looks
in Magda's window and there's clearly prosthetic piece of costuming
that is meant to be like an older woman's body,
and it's he goes, it's made to seem very grotastic. Yeah, yeah,

(01:04:11):
it's made it out to be this fucking body horror scene. Um,
that is very bad. Yeah, and Magda, so we've got
the Mary, We've got the wife that the wife that
just goes down on him, give some cookies and then
Magda is this eavesdropp e caddy like gossippy wears all pink,

(01:04:36):
obsessed with tanning, obsessed with like kind of a cougar,
obsessed with men. And that's it. That's all she is.
That's all we know about her. These are the women,
these are these characters we have this movie. Also she made,
she's written. She's given a line of dialogue that she
says about herself, which is agist. Also where she says,
the last time I had a pap smear, the guy

(01:04:59):
needed leather gloves and an oyster shucker. So like they
wrote her to make fun of herself for her age.
I mean, well, let's give it to them. At least
they understand female anatomy. These male writers, they did their
remarch of what Happens and is an oyster and you
need an oyster shucker to get it open. And it's

(01:05:21):
funny because it's like, I know that we kind of
get like uncomfortable talking about the female characters in this
way because we don't want to be disrespectful, but it's
like with stuff like that, it's like, I mean, we
kind of just have to say it because their fictional
women written by four straight white dudes and so they're
just they just are so not real. Yeah. And and Magna.

(01:05:42):
I think it's an especially raw deal um in this movie. Yeah,
because there's there's no other older women, like it's it's
not like there's several older women characters, and one is
I mean one is insultingly pictured and there's different types.
She represents every woman over thirty, right like she's it's

(01:06:03):
just it's bad. Yeah. Can we talk about Mary's three
friends who you see and I think two different scenes.
One of them is Sarah Silverman, sure, Uh, you know,
as a comic. I I like her. Hers has engaged
in her fair share of problematic ship is her she

(01:06:23):
was very young? Uh that I haven't have to imagine
this is at least one of your first big break
type situation things. Yeah. I mean it's hard to hold
the female actors because it's like what else is available
to them? If I was back then young, I would
have done the movie. And there's also Candy Alexander plays

(01:06:47):
one of the friends. And are they even named. I
don't know if we even know they're they're named in
the credits. I don't remember if they're named in that.
I see Brenda and Joanie Sarah Silverman and Candy Alexander,
and then there's a third woman there too, but I
super don't know. They're all very interchangeable. Yeah, one of
them is the one woman of color in the entire movie,

(01:07:10):
basically just Mary's token black friend who we see in
the not eating salad and we don't know anything. They
all get immediately. I mean, so they're that whole scene
where they're now Eve's dropping on Matt Dylan's character. Everyone's
just constantly has some system some things watch and can

(01:07:37):
hear what he's saying, but he knows, so he's planting
all this information and they immediately are like swooning over
him too, even though what he's saying is ridiculous. It
makes no sense. It's absolutely absurd, and but they're immediately
like and like wanting to get a glimpse of this
hot new guy. It makes no sense because all the
women in this movie are written to be dumb ass, right, Like,

(01:08:01):
who are obsessed with gross dude? They're God, Yeah, every
everything about that character is just like coded to be ages.
Like I think that even like the inclusion of like
she loves her dog too much, Like there's like implications
that she's too close with her pet because and I
feel like the subtypes of that is because she's an

(01:08:21):
older woman who's single, so she's got a French her dog.
Like they're just like, she's not a crazy cat lady.
We're going to update this and give her a dog, right,
one last little quick thing. And we touched on this
a little bit already, but they're just the excessive use
of male gaze style cinematography where Mary is framed in

(01:08:45):
three different scenes in the movie as being like the
object of very voyeuristic male gays. The first one is
Ted accidentally looking in on her through the window and
that's when he zips his pep into that. Also, how
did that even work? There are a cross, their windows
are across from each other. Do they do they have

(01:09:05):
a courtyard in their house? I was thinking that does not.
I mean they are shown to live in a big house.
They seem to be very upper middle class, but it
didn't look like a U shaped house, so like, I
didn't even think of that. The blueprint of this home. Yeah,
it must be like a horseshoe house or some Hogwarts
situation where things are shifting. I don't know what if

(01:09:27):
Mary is a wizard. Now, that would really be something,
I mean and literally that would be some at least
something that's the something very It's not you're a wizard, Harry,
it's you're a wizard, Mary. We are breaking this to
the case. There's a yeah that the way that the

(01:09:51):
camera like lears on women in this movie is gross.
And there's also I think, just like another Fairly Brothers
fixation on severe emasculation and the trauma of severe emasculation,
because that, like, the two moments that people remember from
this movie are moments when Ben Stiller's you know, the

(01:10:12):
good guy of the movie is emasculated at it. Like,
you know, we're led to believe at the beginning when
he zips his dick into his pants, that that affects
the rest of his life. So why do they just
cut the goddamn pants off, Like just cut around the zipper,
you know what I mean? Like that could have been
a start anyway. And the thing that like, the thing

(01:10:33):
that sucks is like I mean, exploring the topic of
emasculation and how that affects men down the line of
their life. Sure, that's a topic worth exploring, but are
these the men to do it? No? No, no, no
for the male gay is the same. Like you say,
I don't want to like be bashing female characters, but
also these are female characters written by men. Mary never

(01:10:57):
wears a bra and her nipples are always really hard,
and I mean, I don't care, good girl, live your
best life, but those men put her in that outfit.
She's not doing it to be empowered. She's doing it
to satisfy the male gaze. Yes, it upset me. That's
the list. That's another very like nineties trophy thing. I mean,

(01:11:18):
it's like I didn't watch Friends. I was like too
young to watch Friends for most of the time I
was airing, but I do know that Jennifer Aniston's nipples
were very so present and that and I knew that
and I hadn't even seen the show before, Like that
was a selling point. She had a haircut and she
had nipples exactly, That's what we knew about Rachel was

(01:11:40):
who she was, and like it's just yeah, the the
or wonderful producer Sophie also pointed out, like what a
shitty poster and marketing there is for this movie where
it's just a very classically like she's you know, it's
Cameron Diaz is on the poster. She's wearing, uh, like
a tiny dress that we don't even see her in
the movie, and there's in some versions of the poster

(01:12:03):
there's the dog in a full body cast next to her, like,
you're just disgusting, it's horrible. Yeah, she's like leaning over
to give full shot of her of her cleavage. Yeah,
it's it's unnecessary. Uh. There's one line that Tucker says
when he comes into he's always just showing up places too.

(01:12:23):
He shows up to everyone's just showing up and no
one questions it anyway, because stalking is not a crime.
In this movie, Tucker brings Magda a bottle of like
Scotch or something like that, and he says She's like, oh,
you're so sweet, and he says, no, I just want
to get you drunk so you'll pass out and I
can give Mary a good roger ing. First of all,

(01:12:49):
he gross slang every right, every attempt at a joke
in this movie. I don't even know how it was funny,
And that's what I keep coming back to, And I
guess it was because people three seventy million dollars um
just like, oh my god, I think that people that

(01:13:11):
think that this movie is funny, I haven't watched it
in a long time. That must be the case. I'm
very excited now that like the thirty year cycle is
coming around for nineties nostalgia. I think we will all
get to realize that it was actually not as great
as everyone ever good never good. Yeah, I mean, at
least it means eighties nostalgia will end. I'm very dumb

(01:13:33):
with that. Yeah, we're ready to be on with it now.
We've got to move into like the early odds, and god,
that's maybe the darkest time of all the nostalgic about now. No,
oh god, we're gonna have to think. I mean, I
think the world will be over but thirty years from now,
so we don't even have to worry about the nostalgica.
There are correct Um, so we know that this is

(01:13:58):
the worst movie of all time. But twist, does it
pass the Bechdel test? Well, folks, I had it passed
in the bag. Really yeah, let me. There is an
exchange with Mary and Magda when we first see them
together where they talk about the neighbor and they talked

(01:14:22):
about neighborhood Watch, but she's talking about and they talked
about tanning. They talked about tanning. She the neighborhood watched.
Conversation evolves into a conversation about a man cheating on
his wife. So she does start talking about a man.
Conversation doesn't pass, but there are there. There's some snippets. Okay,
there's parts of that conversation that incredibly against all lies

(01:14:45):
pass because women interact more than I thought they would
in a movie like this. I'm surprised even is there,
and that she's given friends, but they only ever talk
about Ted or Pat Healy and the hot dogs, or
only men and phallic items. It is. It is a
slight pass, and it's just another example needs one conversation standards.

(01:15:10):
That's a low standard. I mean, we they're they're very
There are various renditions of the Bactel tests. We use
one where it just has to be a two line
exchange that passes. But not even all versions of the
Betel tests required that a woman be named, So there's
a lot of it's we're just scraping by on this one.
It is a barely pass. And you know, as we

(01:15:33):
said it before, we say it again, it wasn't designed
as a media test. Originally it was an iconic queer
comic by Alison Bechdel. It's not a perfect metric. It's
just something to start with. You know what is a
perfect metric? Our nipples scale. Yes, now let's move on
to the perfect metric, right, so we assign zero to

(01:15:55):
five nipples based on its representation of women. This gets
as your zero nipples from the zero nipples for sure. Yeah,
there's no I'm gonna I'm giving it negative to can
I give it like a belly button if you want?
It's like, I haven't any belly button, Brad, I whatever.

(01:16:16):
I was trying something zero nipples zero doing it negative too,
and I'm throwing them at Ben Still are stupid? Ahead? God, Yeah,
everything about this movie is mishandled. I would hope that
because I don't know. I mean, I haven't heard anyone

(01:16:37):
and maybe maybe your experience is different, but I haven't
heard anyone like defend this movie. And I don't think
people are even like watch watching it anymore. I would hope,
and I feel like people remember, like, oh I laughed
at the dick scene in and it's on. But the
problem is it is on like the a F I
Best comedy that's a hundred years hundred laughs. That needs

(01:17:01):
to change. Someone should update that. Can someone please revise
that list? Is what I'm asking. Yeah, I don't watch
this movie and it's not it's it's genuinely hard to watch.
Don't pay for the rental on Amazon or wherever you
watch things. Don't do it. Don't give any indication that
you're interested in this movie. Don't even listen to this. Honestly,
why did we do this? I'd like to hear what

(01:17:22):
they have to say about it now they at people involved,
I'd like to hear. I bet they defend their choices
for some stupid reason. Probably that really says I'm so
sorry with my times. Like Ben Stiller, who's done, you know,
like I'd be interested to hear what he has to say.
Cameron Diaz would be interested. Karen Diaz, she's I mean,

(01:17:43):
she's retired now she's Oh did she retired? Yeah, she
like publicly retired a couple of years ago. I think
maybe she's just she's just like I've I'm I'm done. Well,
she's always gets the same kind of parts, like the
same character, which sucks because what she looks the way
she does, and you know, there's one part that she
can play reinforcing beauty standards are like like that hurt

(01:18:05):
literally everyone clearly because it's just like, yeah, I mean,
she doesn't have the worst problem out of everyone, but
it's like, you know, no one ever really took her
seriously because she was never given a substantial part, so
we don't even know if she's a good actor. Really,
he never got the chance. Yeah, except to actually Shrek.
She has well in Shrek Shruk to Shruck three, Shruck four. Really,

(01:18:27):
I mean she hasn't really doing her best. So zero
nipples across the board. Uh, Katie, thank you so much,
even if it was st I have to go and
I don't know, drink a shot, eat a corn dog,
and have a beer, a real beer, not some pussy

(01:18:50):
light here. I need to go be not like the
other girls. I'm simply I'm simply not like them. And
you know what they're saying this for years, not like
there is something about Jamie there and thank you, there's
something about you. There's something about Katie. There's Katie. There's
definitely something about Caitlin. I definitely think so, but you know,

(01:19:13):
sound off in the comments, because what is it about
these women tell us the things that are something about us.
I like to think that I've been responsible for a
man breaking out in hives. I'd love to have that power.
But I think that that is the one power attributed
to Mary. That is pretty cool. I mean, I've to

(01:19:35):
make a perfect breakout in hives across state lines a gift.
I've the far reach a wizard. I mean, she there,
she's a wizard. I've had men lie to me, but
not because they were obsessed with me, because they didn't
like me. So that's my cross, that's my cross to bear.

(01:19:56):
It's we've all that's like par for the course out
not to diminish your pain. I'm just saying they're solid.
I'm breaking out. Yeah, Yeah, I've been covered in hives
this whole time. Oh, I didn't want to say anything.
That's the something about me, and I appreciate you for
not saying it. I'm covered into are you? Woogie? Have
you been woogie? This whole freaky you? Dare you? I'm

(01:20:21):
a fan. I'm a Chris Elliott. I'm a fan of
hit and listen, it's not worth going into now. Also,
his daughters are very talented. Yes, yes, Mrs Daughter Brighty
Elliot is the one I Brdy Elliott and Abby Elliott
who's on ut. Yeah. Anyway, Katie, thanks for being here.
What would you like to plug? And where can people
follow you online? You can follow me on Twitter at

(01:20:43):
Katie's stole as Katie with a why most people spell
with an I. But that's the something something that I sell.
And you can check out my podcast Even More News
that I co host with Cody Johnston and our show
Some More News. If you want news, that's that's where
you can go to find something we all need. It's

(01:21:04):
only the better places to get news. There's something abouts,
there's something about the news that is just overwhelming, intabilitating. Honestly,
is it more painful to watch the news or to
want this movie? Well? I thought, so we record the
podcast and I was like, well, I'm gonna watch there's
something about Mary. This will be a nice unwinding activity.

(01:21:26):
This is really painful. Yeah, but it was fun. Thank you,
Thank you for being here, and thank you for I mean,
I let let this be the death knell for this movie.
We're done, It's done no more. You can follow us
at you know the places, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all at
becktel Cast. You can join our Patreon ak Matreon. Five

(01:21:50):
dollars a month gets you to bonus episodes every month
very worth it um, and you get access to our backlogs.
You're basically getting fifty episodes all at once. Good stuff.
You can get merch at our Tea Public store at
t public dot com slash the Bechdel Cast, get all
your Bechtel Cast merch. There's the feminist brothers um and

(01:22:13):
I'm kidding that will that will not be merch. And
otherwise I gotta get the come out of me or
I gotta go bye bye