We Are the Best with Margaret Killjoy

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On the dol cast. The questions asked if movies have
women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef In best
start changing it with the beck del cat Jamie Caitlyn
I I wanna hold the microphone and hosts the podcast.

(00:21):
I I want to do the recap. What do you
mean they're on day one. We said I was going
to do the recap, and then you were going to
not do the recap, and you said you were fine
with that. Well I was lying, Okay, well it's too late.
You can't. You can't. You can't date my brother. You can't.
But he's so cute. What about my maybe? What about

(00:44):
my dad? He plays the clarinet. I love the clarinet.
Clear dad no longer passing the BECTL test. But Clarina Dad,
Clara Dad had we Oh god, I love Clarina Dad.
He just I'm like, don't even know if he was
a good parent, but I loved clarinet. Hard to stay

(01:05):
laugh at them. When the other girl's mom was like,
I'm going to call the police, um, He's like, you
can call the police about a bad haircut. Anyways of
often the clarinet. Oh anyway, Welcome to the Becktel Cast.
My name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus,

(01:25):
And this is our our little podcast where we have
guests bring a movie that they love and then we
look at it from an intersectional feminist lens, and we
use the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point. Sure,
and of course that is a media metric created by
queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace Test,

(01:48):
and there are many versions of the test. The one
that we use is this, two characters of a marginalized
gender have to have names, they have to speak to
each other, and their conversation has to be about something
other than a man. And for our purposes, we like
it to be a substantial conversation, one that is many

(02:11):
lines of dialogue and uh and like narratively meaningful arguments
about God at the dinner table, if you will. Uh,
but isn't God a man? And therefore Wow, Okay, I
mean I don't think Yeah, part I was. I was like,

(02:33):
I mean, we could really get in the weeds on
on that. Um, that's true. Yeah, Look, I don't. Let's
not get it. But you know, but I'm like, you know,
we don't have to talk about I don't assign gender
to God. Who God is to us? Right? And you
know there's anyways okay, uh they we and and also

(02:55):
the Bechdel Test is just a jumping off point for
discussion in perfect metric, it's been it's been a wild
summer for the Bechtel Test. They have just been the discourse.
It's been wild. And um, you know, leave us alone
is what I would say. We're just here to talk
about movies and have some fun. And we have a
hell of a movie to discuss today and a hell

(03:17):
of a guest. Our guest is the host of Cool
People Who Did Cool Stuff, the podcast from Cool Zone Media,
and she's an author and musician and she's Margaret Killjoy. Hello, Hello,
how are you. I'm good? Thanks for having me on.
I'm really excited. Oh my gosh, thanks for being here. Look,

(03:38):
we know that podcasts are an audio medium, but I
do want listeners to know that Margaret has dressed for
the occasion of the movie that we're talking about today,
which is We Are the Best A k oh god
v You're going to try to say this and v
our boss. Look, huh I did, uh I I did

(04:01):
a little bit of Do you remember when I was
doing I was trying for two whole months. Yeah, I
didn't get far. But we're covering a Swedish movie today
called vr bost We are the Best. I'm very excited
to talk about it. And Margaret, what is your relationship
with this movie? So I did first see this movie,

(04:26):
not not all that long ago, maybe five years ago
or something or so I basically went through this period
where I was like I'm going to watch all the
girl punk movies and then kind of expanded out to
like I'm going to watch all the punk movies, but
and this is the one that I remember. UM. You know,
I have I have many thoughts about the representation of
punk in in media, but but we are the best,

(04:49):
Like UM lives up to its name in terms of
representation of punk as far as I'm concerned, especially like
punk girlhood. So hell yeah, I'm very other opinion, I'm
curious about your opinions and other what are the other
Not to put you on the spot, but what are
other good punk movies? So I actually think that the

(05:13):
other best representation of punk in fiction is Green Room,
which is a hard yeah yeah, okay. I think the
fact that the punks in it don't dress like punks.
I'm making air quotes here and end up like at
some like Nazi venue and then play, um, I don't

(05:34):
remember if you cuss on this show or not, and
then play Nazi Punks funk off to a crowdfull of Nazis. Right.
I feel like it's one of the punkest moments in cinema,
and and very much I get the sense of, like, Okay,
the people who made this, like, you know what the
hell they're talking about. Um, I can't like wildly recommend it,
right because this horror movie and um. But and then

(05:56):
also the fact that in Green Room they all secretly
also really like nonpunk music and like only one of
them like actually has like their favorite band of all
time is punk, and all the rest of them I'm
not punk at all, And I think that is so
accurate in rules. Um, and then the other the darkest
if you want to, if you want to hear all
of my negative thoughts about punk, I think the movie

(06:17):
Suburbia is really accurate, the one that has Flea from
Red Hot Chili peppers and non actors. I was fully
thinking of Disturbia and that's on me, like the Chila
buff movie. Right, there's this movie, I think it's from
the eighties. It's called Suburbia and it's about these squater
punks in California and they're all racist and misogynists and

(06:42):
from broken homes. And it's very accurate in a very
disturbing way. Um in a lot of ways. And it's
a lot of like non actors in it, so you
get this like weird sense of realism from watching these
non actors who kind of look like they're just being
themselves in slightly awkwardly. Um. So, if I were to
pick accurate representations of punk, uh we are the best

(07:06):
would be the one that I would be like, look
punk rules and Herbia would be the like. Also, it's
really dark and bad. Sometimes I didn't prepare this list.
There's probably others that people are going to get mad
at me for Caitl what's your history with this movie? Um?
I saw it m probably also around five years ago,

(07:31):
and I don't remember exactly what brought me to it,
maybe aside from I think someone just recommending it to
me and saying that it was really good and that
I'd probably like it, and they were right. I think
this movie rules, and I think it is because I

(07:52):
can't speak to punk at all. I'm extremely on punk,
at least as far as punk music goes. I would
say I'm punk in other ways, which is the maybe
least punk thing to say. I don't know, but I
think it is one of the most authentic and accurate

(08:15):
depictions of just being a thirteen year old girl that
I've ever seen. Um and like the things that you
talk about with your friends, the things that you care about,
the little just like the little things you do and say.
And I'm just like, yeah, all that stuff. When the
moment where Clara and whatever the punk boy are on

(08:40):
the roof, Bobo's like yeah, and and Bobo is like,
I'm going to jump off the roof just kidding. I
was like, oh that. It's like such an uncomfortable moment
of feeling like, oh, no, I've been that person. It's like,
ha ha, hey, guys, I'm gonna jump off the roof.
Is this cool? And They're like, don't stop, stop embarrassing

(09:03):
h So I just loved the depiction of of girlhood
in the movie. Jamie, what is your history and relationship
with it? Very short? I had not seen this movie before.
It's been recommended to me before, as I have like
a lot of Lucas Moody sn um joints, but this

(09:28):
was the first one that I've seen, and I had
such a great time with it. This is like it's
so cool watching kids like Bobo and Clara because like
I was, my dad is a huge punk fan, and
like I grew up with punk, but I never had

(09:48):
the self confidence to like do it myself. Like I
was like a kind of a closet punk fan where
I really liked it, but I was like aesthetically I
I just I could never I can't pull a off,
and I like used to you know, I've talked about
this on the show before, but like in at like
this age, I was like so taken by like punk kids,

(10:12):
hot topic, goth kids and like juggalos, and I just
like I love them all I was. I went and
but I like wore a back brace. When I was thirteen,
I was like, there, they'll never accept me, even though
they were so nice, like tended to be really really
nice groups of kids. Um. But yeah, I've been a

(10:32):
sideline lover of um of the punk esthetic and I
loved going to like man the Boston punk scene in
the early two thousand tens. If you're there, you're there,
and it was beautiful. Um So this was so cool.
I wish that I had uh more punk childhood. Um
So seeing this was very awesome and also, like like

(10:54):
you were saying, like just the like being a thirteen
year old in general is like represented in such a
cringe e good way here where I really admire writers
that can like still access that part of them. I
feel like I really buried it because when you see it,

(11:14):
you're like, oh, yes, this is too familiar, and I
hate that I used to be this awful way. Yeah
it's like right, um but yeah no, I uh because
this was um This is directed by Lucas Moodyson, adapted

(11:37):
from a graphic novel by Coco his wife. His wife,
um Coco moods in Yes so um So. Shout out
to Coco, who uh was really able to tap into
a lot of the very uncomfortable, cringe e ways that
thirteen year olds behaved, but in a way that I

(12:01):
find myself when I write young characters, if I want
them to seem good. I like, I want to uh
sand off the rough hedges, and I'm like, I shouldn't.
I really shouldn't. It's like so endearing when oh, man,
there's just so many bobo moments where you're just like, buddy, buddy, yeah,

(12:25):
and should oh you just how hard? Um? Uh not
bobo not head veg. What's the third punk Clara? Clara?
How hard? Clara is trying to be so hard and
so punk and she just has this loving, supportive family
who just like wants what's best for her and her
like her post punk brother who's a sellout because he's
post punk and like, and she's just like I I

(12:50):
don't see myself in her. I would have wanted to
be best friends with me. And I get the isling
that the writer also kind of probably is most self
insert bobo. I was definitely more of a bobo myself.
I was. I was a bobo, And I also had
some notes of head vig where I was like, no, swearing,

(13:13):
drinking is bad for you. Stop um Clara. Man, we
all want to be Clara, but but then also, but
you know, you know, not everyone can have a clarinet. Dad.
It's a game changer. Also, it turns out that Coco
Moody sen what is the word I'm thinking of, like

(13:35):
lemony snake it? Oh, a pseudonym A pseudonym? Yes, wow, okay,
sorry for just throwing lemony ticket. So but her first name,
her first name is head Vig. So, so I don't know,
maybe maybe a head vegus her insert. I don't know
when I know that the the director is Christian Oh,

(13:56):
I did not know that. Interesting me either, I would
not have guessed that necessarily. It wasn't in a very like,
very positive way. You know. I get really excited when
I I'm not really personally attached to any particular religious affiliation,
but I get really excited when people use religion as
a reason to be like good, you know. And So

(14:19):
I actually didn't know it the first time I watched it,
but I did more research before I watched it this time,
and I was like kind of looking for that, and
I was like, oh, I I totally see that. Mm hmm,
that makes sense. I mean it's like the religion. I
feel like the way that religions treated in the movie
is very like even keeled and like what you see

(14:39):
present of head VIGs religion seems to be like generally positive,
where like she just shows a lot of empathy and like,
doesn't you know, I guess doesn't drink a whole bottle
of wine when she's thirteen. You're like, these seems like
generally good things. I guess, um, but I also love
hearing Clara be Like, I don't believe in God. I

(15:02):
believe in catchup. So a lot of points are made,
a lot of good points. I want to say that
you're you're you're worried about not being cool ugh for
the punk aesthetic, um, just to out myself as opposer.
I got my first punk vest in my thirties because
I don't think I was punk enough, even though I
was like a squatter who spent all of her time

(15:25):
at punctious. I was like, because I wasn't a teenage punk,
I was a teenage magoth essentially very cool. Yeah, and
so so my mother Actually I asked for one for Christmas,
and my mother got me a vest and then I
put a patch on it. Um, so it's never too late. Yeah,
that is that is very motivating because it does feel

(15:48):
like and then I'm like, maybe this is a construction
of my mind. It does feel like teenagers really get
keep the punk aesthetic, but it's never I think we
should we should pivot to being punks. I would be
very into that. I really would. I was, And also

(16:09):
the punk outfit that this movie. They're all so good.
They're all especially when the boys are trying a little
too hard and the girls have it just right and
it's just it's great, it's great. Who is at And
they're like gate keeping, They're like, yeah, of you. Yeah

(16:31):
they call them a proger, which I don't know what
that man and I forgot to look it up, but
I rock, but I'm not sure. Yeah, oh I thought.
I just was like they're in Europe, they're talking about
the city. I don't understand, but but yeah, I looked
it up and they're like, um, hey, goofs. They actually

(16:53):
mean prog rock. You're like, oh yeah, eight two that
makes sense. I love when they bring up Joy Division
as a pejure have, Like there's just so many good
so many good moments. It's very fun. Should I recap
the story? No? I would know, Wait, okay, wait, what

(17:18):
worth it? Because my favorite movie growing up with School
of Rock, Like, like, I just loved it so much
and this movie. I love that both of these movies
exist because this is like an accurate depiction of what
a children's band would be, which is very bad. They
are not very good their instruments. The song absolutely sucks.

(17:42):
I felt, mean, I had like an inner like I
don't know if this is like my inner aunt or whatever,
but I'm like, Headwicks should go solo. I don't know
what she's doing hanging out with these dorks, like and
then I'm like, wait, no, no, no, they need each other.
But I'm like, it makes such a talent they do.
They need the energy, you know they yeah, and and
they give head Vig her edge, and head Vig brings

(18:04):
the christ the talent, mediation and being able to play
the guitar. So everyone's got you all. We all bring
something to the tables. Honest, Bobo, you gotta love Bobo.
But Bobo brings heart, which is like a really nice

(18:26):
way of calling someone a flop. And they're like, no, no, no,
she's she's the heart. Gotta have her. I hope it
does improve at the drums later on. It's true and
in her descent, she never wanted to play the drums
and still doesn't seem to want to at the end.

(18:48):
Oh okay, so here is the recap again, so not
punk of Me. To recap the movie, here we go
great joy division of you Kalin. Alright, So we are
in Stockholm, Sweden. Ever heard of it? In the year two,

(19:10):
we meet Bobo. She is a thirteen year old girl
who is bored at her mom's birthday party, so she
goes into her room and she calls her best friend Clara.
They both love punk music. They've both got these punk
rock haircuts, and they are trying which of them is

(19:30):
the most oppressed by their parents, right, who both come
from supportive families, but they are very typical teenagers in
the way that they have, you know, difficult relationships with
their parents and their families. And we see them not

(19:50):
really fitting in with the other girls at school who
tell them that punk is dead, and they're like, no,
it's not those i They're also just like, I don't
know the specificity of how they wrote this movie, where
like Clara wants to be political in the way that

(20:12):
like punks are political, but she like doesn't quite know
what she's talking about, but like no one around her
has enough information to say she's wrong, And I was like, oh,
this is a very thirteen year old experience where she's
like nuclear and and you're just like yeah, and your
skin is gonna fall off. It's the same as God, yes, right,

(20:38):
um okay. So Bobo and Clara go to a youth
center where they hear this band called Iron Fists, which
are like older maybe like late teens, early twenties perhaps
um boys who are playing, and Bobo and Clara want

(20:59):
to play music too, so they tell these, uh the
one of the adults at the youth center that they
have a band, and they sign up for a spot
to play, and they bury these adults just like those

(21:19):
two guys. I don't know what their character's names are,
but they are such goofy like dudes in their forties
who like probably wanted to be musicians but it didn't
work out for them and was a genuine rivalry with
thirteen year olds and multiple times it's so fun to watch.

(21:48):
So Bobo and Clara start messing around on the only
instruments that they have at this youth center, which is
a drum set and a bass guitar, and neither of
them know how to play these instruments, so there they
sound terrible, but they have a ton of fun and
they start talking and they talk about like starting a
band for real. They both want to play bass, but

(22:09):
Clara is like, no, Bobo, you are really good at
the drums. You should play the drums. And she's like, okay,
I guess. So then back at so then back at school,
the girls are in gym class, which they hate, and
the gym teacher gives them a hard time, so they
start writing lyrics to a song called hate the Sport,

(22:31):
and it's still go to continually draw comparisons between We're
the best in School of Rock, but it really reminds
me of the first song they write in School of Rock,
where the legend of the rent was way hardcore, right.
I almost forgot about that. Um. So they are writing

(22:55):
lyrics to hot the Sport and they try to get
a bought on their school's upcoming like fall concert slash
talent show thing, but there are no open spots so
they can't play. But they go to the show and
UH make fun of most of the acts, which was

(23:16):
fun to watch except for one girl, head Vig, who
plays a song on the acoustic guitar and she plays
it pretty well. Bobo is the most punk of them all.
When they when they're like, why is she keep doing this?
They're always booing her and then she like shreds on

(23:36):
the Christian guitar and I love head Vig mhm um.
So seeing her play well, Bobo gets the idea to
have head Vig join their band. The only trouble is
that she is a Christian who doesn't play punk music.
And Bobo and Clara tell head Vig that they like

(23:59):
her music and they asked her to be in the band. Um,
and hed Vig is like, well, I also hate sports,
so sure, so she joins the band. She teaches them
a couple of things, and then they start to hang
out and become friends. There's a scene where they find
some yarn that was thrown away in these big garbage bags,

(24:22):
so they're like, pick it up and they start playing
with it and cutting it up, and then Bobo cuts
her hand. Um they're there, Oh no, I was just
thinking about, like, I've only been to Sweden once, but
it is interesting when you spend time in a country

(24:44):
that has health insurance, the way people navigate the world
is just a little bit different. They're like, yeah, you know,
if I get hurt, I'll just go to the doctor.
Like they're just like I don't know, like watching how
they were just like, yeah, let's bring some trash home wind,
not let's use a knife like I just I remember
once um staying with a friend of mine in a

(25:05):
squat in France and she caught her I can't remember
what something was wrong with her hand, like something fairly bad,
and we're like, oh no, how are we going to
handle this. We're like like googling things like I'm gonna
I'm gonna reach out to my ex boyfriend who's kind
of a doctor. Now. She's like, I can just go
to the doctor tomorrow, And what do you mean? Water punk? Like,

(25:26):
how are you going to just go to the anyway? Yep, ye,
punks can go to the doctor here. It's so wild.
There one that I went to, like, well, I went
to Stockholm. We went to like this Swedish theme park
and I'm like there's no rules here, you can just
fall down and like it was just like it was

(25:47):
so fun. But you're just like, wow, I didn't realize
how American healthcare brain. I was like, we need we
needed better safety procedures. These children are just taking like
hard falls right and left, but just taking to the doctor.
Are all fine? Well, the only thing though is that
Bobo cuts her hand pretty severely. But then they don't
go to the doctor. That's true, it's months for a

(26:16):
long time. Yeah, I mean, I'm excited to talk about
Bobo's relationship with her mom because I was like, I
there's a lot of ambiguity going on there with her
and her mom. I'm it's interested to talk about it.
But I was just like, oh, no, Bobo Boo should
have gone to the doctor. But they're very punk, so
they're too punk for that too. For the pediatrician. That

(26:40):
should have been one of their songs. Oh my gosh. Um,
then we'll speaking of Bobo's parents. Bobo's dad comes to visit. Um,
it's clear that she and him are not close, and

(27:00):
she wants to hang out with Clara instead when they're
supposed to be having like a nice family dinner with
her death with Bobo's dad and mom. But she's like,
I want to go hang out with my friends. Screw dessert.
Another great screw dessert. Another could have been song. Um.
So then Bobo goes to Clara's place where Clara's brother

(27:24):
Linus is having a party. Um, Bobo and Clara get
drunk and they pressure head head Vig into drinking also,
but she doesn't want to and she leaves. Meanwhile, Bobo
has a crush onlineus and she expresses concern that she'll
never find a boyfriend and nobody thinks she's cute. Um.

(27:46):
Another there's like all these specific thirteen year old moments,
but like when like an older sibling that you have
a crush on, like when he like touches her hair
and you're like, oh my god, I love how friendly
all of his all of his friends were like concerned
about the thirteen year olds. They weren't like trying to

(28:07):
hang out with the thirteen year olds. But they're all like,
oh are they okay? Like what's up? They were all
they weren't like, ah, I can't believe your sisters here,
you know, they're just like here. I like when they're
like are you drunk? Are you okay? They're just everyone's
so wholesome, Clara's whole eating, Clara's whole family. I'm like,
what a sweet, sweet family. They really they really raised

(28:31):
some some weird punk kids, even like the youngest sibling,
I forget what his name is is like cow or
cow or something. I just off man younger sibling. I mean,
you could read a whole thesis on younger siblings in cinema,
because usually they're just like annoying and suck and are
like always planning, you know, elaborate schemes. But I like

(28:55):
that he's just like a doorway brother and he's always
just kind of like hey, and then he just leaves.
Like that's a more realistic younger sibling depict just someone
cackling while you're getting in trouble from the doorway working
in cash. Then Bobo and Clara go over to hed

(29:15):
Vig's house and they have a They have a discussion
about whether or not any whether or not they believe
in God. Um, they kind of peer pressure head Vig
into cutting her long hair, which Hedvig's mom is very
unhappy about when she finds out, and she tells them
that she's going to report Bobo and Clara to the

(29:36):
police unless they start going to church with her and
believing in God and becoming Christians work. And at first
you're like, oh my god, she's serious, and then Bobo
and Clara like, you can't do that. You can't force
us to go to church, and her mom was like,
well you can't, Well you forced my daughter to get

(29:57):
a hair cut, and we think that what's going on?
And then so the next day at school, had Vig
doesn't sit with them at lunch, but it's because she
thinks Bobo and Clara are mad at her because of
what her mom did. And she's like, like, I was
just so embarrassed with my mom. And but you're also like,
she probably also didn't want to cut her hair, right,

(30:22):
But did you ever have like a parent moment where
I feel like I rarely like went through with it,
but like when your parents like, just blame it on me,
I don't care, Like my mom like would be like,
I don't care if I look silly to your friends,
just don't do a bad Like I would have totally
blamed that all on my mom, even if I secretly,

(30:44):
like I did feel pure pressured into getting the haircut.
Mm hmm yeah um, and and not good good for
moms for doing that. You know, you know, moms don't
need other thirteen year old girls. They think they're cool,
and I celebrate that so true. The three girls makeup

(31:06):
and they have a little food fight at lunch, they
have more brand they and then they have more band
practice and they start to write another song. They ask
strangers for money so that they can buy an electric guitar,
which they don't make enough money for, so they instead
spend the money they did make on a bunch of

(31:27):
junk food that they pig out on. Can I tell
a story about women asking for money in Sweden? That's
a really random story, Yes? Please? I was. I was
hitchhiking through Sweden in my early twenties and I have
any money, and I was like in Helsingborg and I
was trying to get to Stockholm, sitting in a park,
and these these group of young women are like hey, hey, hey,

(31:48):
and I'm like, I don't speak Swedish and they're like
will you And I'm not out as trans at this point. Um,
I actually don't remember if I'm wearing a dress or not,
but but I'm like presenting as a boy, even if
I'm wearing women's and they're like, will you wrestle us
for money? You give us money and we wrestle you
and that's how we're raising enough money for her wedding

(32:09):
and their their wedding was that they were wrestling random
boys in the park. I explained that I did not
have any money, and they promptly moved on. But that
that I can't to wrap my head around all. I
have no idea what happened there? Is this a normal thing?
Were they hitting on me? Was it just a weird

(32:30):
checking thing? I don't know. I have no idea. What
is that? Just a very common Swedish thing? We don't know?
Do yeah? Do swees just have very inventive ways of
making money? That seems possible. How far they got in
this venture, It makes it sound like the way you

(32:50):
describe it makes it seems like they felt there was
some sort of demand for this, you know. I yeah,
it seems like they're going to pay for a wedding
with this. Yeah, tens of thousands of dollars that a
wedding costs. They were going to somehow raise that by
challenging people to wrestle them, especially, I don't know. The

(33:15):
whole thing made no sense to me. That's fascinating, Okay.
I hope that they had the best wedding ever. So
the girls, they eat a bunch of junk food. They're
also gushing over this article by this punk band of

(33:36):
teen boys. So they call these boys and arranged to
meet up there, like your punks were punks, We have
to meet up. It's fate, and they're so exactly. So
they meet up. They think it's going to be three
boys in this band, but it's only two of them
because they've already divvied up the boys. That's yeah, they're like,

(33:58):
you're going to get with this one. And one of
the boys was a poser is the biggest problem, right,
because he liked a band noise, so they kicked him out.
So it's just the two boys and the three girls
and they go to their and they go to the

(34:19):
boys rehearsal space. They hang out and I like the
the um it was. It was. It was fun um so,
but because they're out kind of like outnumbered, Bobo is

(34:42):
left out and she's sort of like the fifth wheel,
and she's jealous because she clearly liked the boy Ellis well,
and that was claims the agreement, right Clara. Clara's like,
Ellis will be yours and David will be mine, but
David's the guy who's not there, So Clara kind of
claims Ellis for herself, and now Bobo is the awkward

(35:07):
fifth wheel. Well, and the boys called called it to
the boys of their conversation where they divvy up the
girls which they don't remember the names of, and they're
just like, oh, yeah, the one with the scarf, like,
I'll tell her, sucking thirteen year old boys. I do
think that is how boys. They're like, Oh, at least

(35:28):
they did it by like scarfs and not like hair color,
because I feel like so many men are just like
so reductive about women. They're like, oh the blonde, the burnette. Um, okay,
so they're in Sweden. You can't do that. It's never
mind everyone's blonde. This is not true at all. But
I apologized, sweet listen, Yeah, but a lot of you

(35:52):
are blonde to be fair shots fired the youth center
that the girls go. Tom says that they've been invited
to bring a few bands to play at another youth
center's winter concert, and they want Bobo and Clara and
head VIGs band who I don't do we ever learn
the name of their band. I don't explain the same thing, Okay,

(36:15):
I was like, did I miss something? Um, they didn't
get that. Yeah, so they're so punk that they don't
even need a name. So their band is invited to play,
and those two guys at the youth center, Um, they
bought an electric guitar. Finally, and we see head Vig
showing off her guitar playing skills and everyone is very impressive. Waita,

(36:39):
the the thing about being an all girl band. This
is one of my favorite moments of the whole movie.
So I want to interject because it's like, I mean,
I guess the only thing worse than being a girl
band is to be a female fronted band. You know.
Um in terms of just like the annoying thing, I
just as someone who's in a girl band, Um, I'm

(37:00):
really excited that they just were like immediately their thirteen
and they're like, no, no, we're not we are girls
who were in the band. Anyway, it's like my favorite
feminist moment of the movie. It does kind of remind
me a little bit of just because it's still it's
like so ridiculous that whatever this movie takes place in
eighty two and this ship still happens all the time,

(37:21):
and it's just so annoying or just it's the same
as like women in comedy questions And I was just
gonna say, yeah, like, yeah, not great. Could stop, like
and this is a part of why it's not great,
Like yeah, oh my gosh, I can't tell you how
many times I've been asked like is it hard to
be a female comedian? And I'm just like, right now,

(37:42):
it's hard to be a comedian. It's hard to be
a woman. So yeah, like what do you want me
to say? Like, yeah, shut up? What the I mean?
What the fund do? Like sis, white straight men have
to make jokes about because isn't one of the main
I'm not a comedian, but it seems like bad things
happening based on people making assumptions about you is one

(38:04):
of the main sources of comedy, Like yeah, a big one.
Well now with the well is deeper for everyone else.
Now it's truly can't You can't say or do anything anymore.
That's the news. I forgot that. Here's the thing. PC
culture is ruining comedy. So yeah, they can't really talk.

(38:26):
I don't even know how to like start a conversation anymore,
Like how do you even start? Can talk to answers? No,
if you're thinking about it, if you're not sure the answers, no,
I can't even I can't even just hang out someone's
d M s un answered, send them a new message

(38:48):
every day without people getting upset. You really just can't
harass people like you used to, you know. So they
get invited to this winter concert. Um, but Bobo is
still sour about the um Clara and Ellis thing, and

(39:08):
Clara's like, well, Alis never calls me. Cut to Bobo
calling Ellis and arranging to hang out with them, just
the two of with him, just the two of them.
I was floored. I was florida that this happened. I
truly gasped. I didn't know. I didn't know she had

(39:29):
that rage. I did know because I feel like I
did something like that as a t God, you're so
much braver than I am. I would have I would
have just fumed in silence for twenty years and then
brought it up on this podcast at some point. So
do you want to shout someone out right now? From

(39:50):
by the way there, Wait, Kitlen, you did something like this,
that's so? What did you do? So? Okay? I had
so my best friend in my school. We both so
there was a group of three, a trio of boys
who were a year or two older than us, and
they were best friends, and me and my best friend

(40:12):
were a little duo and we all like basically just
all dated each other. But like, but at first it
was like, well I like this one, so he's off
limits to you. And then and then eventually we just
like worked both worked our way through all three of them.
But to start, it was like, well, no, I've I
have staked claim on this one. But then like I

(40:35):
kind of moved on to the guy that she briefly
liked and dated and then but he was off limits
to me. But I was like, you know what, he
likes me, So what am I going to deny myself happiness?
And it was you know, it wasn't great. I don't
I'm not proud of myself, but look it happened, and

(40:56):
I think the only thing I've done that's approached I
didn't do that in like when middle school. In high school,
I started dating someone who was off limits and someone
threw a watermelon on my lawn. No water full watermelon,
a watermelon, they said water bong. I just I think

(41:18):
they just like went to Shaws and bought a watermelon.
It just chucked it on my lawn to let them
know that they knew that I was I was dating
someone off limits mm hmm. But it sent the message,
I don't know, pretty punk thing to do, throw a watermelon.
It was pretty cool of them to do. I didn't.

(41:38):
I didn't, you know, I didn't stop dating the person
after that, which that's on me because it is It's
like one thing to be like, I'm doing something that's wrong,
but then in the back of your head you're like,
but I haven't experienced a consequence, so maybe it's not wrong.
And then the watermelon lands, and then you're like, no,
this is wrong. What what an interesting worries we're all sharing?

(42:01):
Oh yeah, we're really all letting it rip. I've never
done anything wrong, so well obviously yeah yeah, um okay,
you are the head vig of the group. Wow, um okay.
So uh So Bobo and Ellis hang out and it's

(42:26):
a little flirty. He puts his arm around her, he
tickles her wrist um and and he's like, but I
have to break up with Clara first, which he never does.
And then they're heading to the New Year's they're kind
of not invited to anymore. He goes them both and

(42:47):
then Bobo tells Clara that Ellis cheated on Clara with Bobo,
and they get in a huge fight and Clara is furious,
but at the encouragement of head Vig, they eventually make
up and become friends again. And then it's time for
the concert, so they go to this seems like kind
of like a remote, far away town and it's like

(43:12):
like a distant y m C a kind of vibe. Yeah,
And then so they start playing their song Hot the Sport,
and everyone screams at them and calls them ugly and
says that they're common communists and they're like, you suck,
and the girls in the band are like, we don't suck.
You suck, and we are the best and that is

(43:34):
the name of the movie. And then the movie ends
with um, like the girls talking to those two youth
center guys and they're like, you need to show some respects, like, um,
screw you. And then there's a scene like a fast
food place where they're like goofing around and that's the

(43:54):
end of the movie. You forgot about the dad playing
clarinet pants around his ankles. Clarinet, feminist icon, clarinet. We
should all be so truly. Um. Okay, so let's take

(44:15):
a quick break and then we will come back to
discuss and we're back, and we're back. Where do we
want to start? I mean, there's a few different kind
of thematic cornerstones I suppose of the movie that I
really enjoy. Okay, what do I have writing stone? I

(44:41):
would never bring it up, but um, I mean, I
love the female friendship as it is at the center
of this movie. I love the like kind of beauty
standards and the rejecting of beauty standards is a large
component of this movie. I like that, um kind of

(45:03):
like the men around them often assume that they can't
really do anything or that they're not good at things
because they're girls. That's a component of this movie. Again.
I love just the what feels like a very authentic
depiction of the horrors of being thirteen and just all

(45:25):
the nuances you get that you normally don't see in
a movie about thirteen year old girls, one because there
are hardly any movies about thirteen year old girls, and
two if they are, if there is a story about them,
it's it just feels like a very like cartoony Hollywood
eyes version, which can be fun, but it's like there's

(45:47):
just not enough of projects like this around right year
old actors. Yeah, exactly, actual kids, Yeah, because I feel
like thirteen year olds you just add three or four
years in like, which is like part of why eighth grade,
I feel like was such was so cool for a

(46:10):
lot of people to see because you're like, oh, yeah,
this is what an eighth grader looks like. Where and
again not so, I feel like I've been bringing up
to Grassy on every single episode recently. I don't know why,
but like that was my only yardstick as a kid
for like media for kids that were played by kids
that were at the correct age and weren't like c

(46:30):
W teens who are like my age. Yeah, there's there's
a lot to love about it, and not really anything
that I have any complaints about. One thing I really
liked because we recently covered Margaret. Have you seen Turning Red?
I haven't know. It's cute, it's a new Dizzey movie.
It's also like a girlhood coming of age movie. And

(46:52):
one thing that like I've I liked that these movies,
I mean, the movies have very not a lot in
common to a rights is about turning into a Panda.
But but I did like, um, the way that like
the girls are like are like going through period. They're

(47:15):
like starting to feel like come into their own in
terms of their sexuality, but they also like I like
that the movie doesn't ignore that, but it also doesn't
do what I think a lot of teen media does,
which is like push them into situations that they're not
ready for or able to handle, which is such a

(47:35):
tough line to tell. I feel like you see a
lot of that in Bobo, where she like has a
crush on an older boy, but like isn't going to
do anything about it, Like she's just going to be
weird whenever he's around. And when the thirteen, when you
know she hangs out with um, I keep wanting to
call him Elon, which is all us. When she hangs

(48:00):
out with Ellis, both of them have no idea what
to do, but he still manages to be an asshole,
which is a hallmark of thirteen year old boys. But
he like, I just liked it. I don't want to
defend him super high, right because he goes both of
them or whatever, But it's like there were so many
ways that if this was a Hollywood movie, he would
have been way the hell worse, right, and yeah, he was.

(48:21):
He like, I think most ghosting is people being like,
I don't know what I'm supposed to do here, so
I'm going to not think about it, right, and so
so he's like, I don't know, I don't know how
to date. I don't know what I'm doing, so I
will be distant in a way that hurts people. But
you know, like I'm worried I'm cheating because I like

(48:42):
touched your hand, you know, I know the thirteen year
old definition of cheating and also of being together is
like like, oh we hung out one time, we're dating,
we're together. You know. Normally we examine a movie that
as like a hetero romance and we're often like why

(49:04):
is this here, or like it'll feel very wedged in,
or we're just there's a lot to especially right, But
in this movie, it just it feels very true. But
in this movie it just feels very organic, organic and
like it belongs because we are seeing these girls and

(49:27):
their friendship and like the whole spectrum of what it
is to be, uh, someone of that age, which is yes,
having interests in something, and for them it's music, um,
whether it's like to listen to it and then eventually
to start playing it. Um it's uh issues or just

(49:48):
whatever complications anything like that with your family. And we
see that in um, all of the girls, and it's
an interest in uh whatever we're like in other people romantically. Um,
And we see that. So it's just like and it's
like you know, going to school, it's going to your
youth center. It's like all the things that kids do.

(50:11):
And we just see that entire scope of their lives
versus a lot of stories will be like, oh, well
they're a team girl, so the only thing they think
about is boys. Um, But it's like, no, we get
the whole spectrum of their lives here. There's just as
much time spent on them trying to figure out how
they feel about religion as there is that like on yeah,

(50:37):
figuring out how they feel about like different romantic interests,
which is cool. Yeah. It's like, I I like how
this movie is very like Vignetti and there like here's
a here's a kid thing, remember this, and it's like
slowly leading up to something. It's probably how like because
it you know, is based on this sort of autobiographical
graphic novel and you know, I assume the yarn incident right,

(51:01):
Like the yarn incident doesn't narratively tie in. I mean
they managed to pull it off because at the end
they're like fishing with the yarn out the window for
fun and like and you know, getting cut while cutting
up random yarn you pull out of the trash scene
is like very emotional and impactful, but it's such a
a random moment that I assume that this has happened,

(51:21):
you know, right right, and like too specific to not
be real. And they still managed to get like that
awesome moment out of um out of it too, where
like that's there, like huge, that's like, isn't that That's
like the first moment where you're like, oh, Headvig is
like permanently in the group, part of the group, even

(51:44):
though she was the one who didn't want to go
dumpster diving or whatever, you know, and was afraid of
stealing someone's thrown out. Yeah, she's like this is someone
else's and it's wet, why are we playing with it? Like, Okay,
head Vig had some points. She made some point, some
better boundaries. I feel like a lot of movies would

(52:04):
go down a route of like, oh, well, a new
friend gets introduced so one of the others gets really
jealous or like, this new friend comes along and she
feels like the odd one out because there's already an
established friendship with these other two, which is a real

(52:25):
thing that does happen. Um, But I like that it's
just these three girls who share a common interest in
music and they bond over that and their hatred of
gym class and sports. So they're like, well, yeah, obviously
we're all going to be the best of friends. And
even though one of them is a little older than

(52:46):
the other two, even though one of them is Christian
and the other two are not. Maybe that's why I
also feel very connected to head VG taller friend energy
where they're like, is she older? You're like, no, they're
all the same age. Relax, No, she is older. I
think because she says she's in Great nine, I thought

(53:09):
she's good. I think all these characters are great um
and again, and they're very they're very distinct. They're very
again like I knew people like all like all like
I knew people like all three of them, and I
saw myself and you know, you know, in different ways
in all three of them, and they're just like very again,

(53:33):
well written well crafted, very relatable, very authentic characters that again,
we don't see in media very often. I like, I
loved it Clara because Clara is like the headstrong, like decisive,
like like in your face, like I'm gonna advocate when

(53:55):
someone needs to be advocated for, right to the point
where it's like occasionally and considerate people around her. And
I just I like, I kaind Of'm just like, oh,
I can't think of the last time I saw like
a movie. I don't know. I mean, I guess I
don't really know what this who this movie was marketed
towards because we famously don't live in Sweden, but I

(54:18):
hope that it was like marketed at like kids, because
it would have been so. I mean, it's really cool
seeing like kids that aren't like classic you know, like
Hollywood cool girls that there's like a movie about them
being awesome and like still bullied but ultimately like really
really fucking cool. Um. But but Clara. I liked the

(54:42):
with Clara and Bobo. They like it ends with them
all being friends. But you can also tell in a
way that I found kind of satisfying, like Clara still
has a long way to go, you know, Clara Clara,
like literally in the in the last scene, it was
just like so a thirteen year old, like, yeah, she
still hasn't quite gotten over herself where she's like I

(55:05):
am the best, and then the other two have to
be like that's not the name of the movie. Yeah,
I I totally agree, but not in a way that
like makes that character unlikable or irredeemable. It's just that
she's a thirteen year old girl, and this is how
a lot of thirteen year old girls are, or just

(55:25):
thirteen year olds in general, because you're thirteen and you
have not fully formed as a person yet, your emotions
are confusing, you are your self esteem is all over
the place, and yeah, it just feels like, yeah, she's
quite self centered, and yes she is sort of like
staking claim over a lot of things and like you know,

(55:49):
not being as super considerate toward especially her best friend
Bobo in a lot of ways where she's like, no,
this boy's mine, the playing the bass is my thing,
and way that again, like this is an immaturity thing
that she will probably grow out of, not like she's
a bad person thing it is. Yeah, it feels like

(56:10):
I don't know, I mean like every thirteen year old
has like that that friend structure where it's like there's
a friend that just can steamroll everybody, and you're like,
you don't have the confidence or the life skills to
be like stop Like uh, I like and and and
you know, having an alpha friend like Clara because it's

(56:31):
not I mean, she's still like loves her friends and family,
she just doesn't always consider them first. And you know
there are moments that I mean it's like you still
really like Clara. She's like the most She's trying to
be the most overtly political of the group. She like
wants to be able to say something even though she's

(56:52):
like not quite at a place where she knows how
to say it. And and I like that she I
don't know, just like reflecting on my own child, you're like, oh,
you need that alpha friend because who else is gonna
like get you French fries or like who else is
gonna you know, push until you get the rehearsal space,
or like Clara does a couple of pigs in this
movie that it's like, Oh, if everyone in this group

(57:14):
were the same kind of shy thirteen year old, I
would I was you don't get the French fries, you
don't get the you don't get the rehearsal space, and
the movie doesn't happen. Um right exactly. Yeah, yeah, again,
everyone's bringing something to the table. Um. And then on
and then with Bobo, I mean again, like yeah, with Clara,

(57:38):
she's like very very confident, or at least puts on
the air of confidence. Um. On the other hand, you
have Bobo. She loves to bully adults too. I love
how pullys the ship out of most adults and it's
so punk of her. Um. But then Bobo has some

(58:02):
pretty obvious self esteem issues um that I think again
are just like a product of She's in a society
where there are certain beauty standards, and these girls, as
punks are like trying to actively reject a lot of
these like Western beauty standards where they have cut their

(58:25):
hair short, they are anti makeup, They their style, like
their clothing is like pretty gender neutral a lot of
the time, and they have a lot of people calling
them ugly. And uh. It very clearly affects Bobo, um
because she says things like, oh, I'm never going to
get a boyfriend. No one thinks I'm cute. I was

(58:47):
never invited to the parties. And so even though like
they're taking this like punk stance of rejecting beauty standards,
like just like anyone wants to be desired and desirable
and like wants to be attractive to someone and you
can just tell that. And and so Bobo is uh,

(59:10):
kind of in this trying to doing is like kind
of doing this balancing act of like, yeah, well I
want to like I want to seem punk and I
cut my own hair and all the stuff. But she
also like wants cute boys to like her in a
very again relatable way, especially for that age. And I

(59:33):
love that. I love when Clara wears the makeup secretly
and then to meet the boys who wear makeup. Yeah,
and Bobo is all piste off. She's like, wait a second,
you're supposed to be You're It's like, I don't know,
I get. Clara is so fascinating to me because I
used to be fascinated with kids like this where it's

(59:55):
like they're making all of the rules, but also the
rules don't apply to them. Most are fumstances. I'm sure
Clara was the one that was like, we're anti makeup
and bubbles like, Okay, we're anti makeup, but then like,
but Clara can wear makeup sometimes. But this is like
one of my favorite I wrote down this chunk of
it too, about makeup and stuff and how the boys

(01:00:15):
at the beginning, the slightly older boys like call them
all ugly and stuff, and it it's one of my
favorite iron tensions within punk feminism, you know, is this
idea of like and I I've at least read essays
about punk feminism going back further than like I've been
aware of punk, like going back in the eighties and
seventies and stuff where, um, so much of it was

(01:00:36):
about especially actually when punk when when punk women started
wearing makeup, a lot of it was like intentionally over
the top in a way to try and draw attention
and be like you said, this is supposed to be pretty,
but I'm warning so much that it's obviously ugly and
like a way to go so overboard that it becomes
ugly and and then you know, but then that that

(01:00:56):
falls back and like becomes more moderated later in punk
war than it just sort of becomes like punk women
wear makeup and it's just like like everyone else or whatever,
and it's just like trying to be conventionally attractive and
but just with like ripped stockings or whatever. I'm not
I'm not trying to talk to it on either of
the conclusions that charge girls, right, Um, but I find
this tension really interesting and I like that this one

(01:01:18):
is situating this like third one that is actually I
think more probably tied into the broader feminism of the
like we're anti makeup, you know, as compared to just
the like we're going to go over the top with makeup. Um,
I don't know, right well, that's a thing that has
been like something that I've honestly grappled with throughout my

(01:01:39):
life where I'm like obviously a militant feminist and I'm not.
I'm like, I'm not going to do anything that, uh
like just because society thinks they should or a man
thinks I should. But then I'm also like, well, I
do want to be sexy. Mescarrel looks so good and

(01:01:59):
every like, so like there are some indisputiful facts, so
it's complicated. So like I do wear makeup pretty frequently.
I like shave my legs and shave my under arms
and things that I do that because like that's what
the beauty standard is. But I but like, I think

(01:02:23):
what a lot of people have kind of grappled with
when it comes to feminism and beauty standards is like, well,
feminism says that you it's your choice, Like you can
do whatever you want with your body. So if you
want to, you know, wear a lot of makeup and
you know, present in a very like hyper feminine way
that historically and traditionally is the thing that like appeals to,

(01:02:49):
like the heteronormative male gaze. If you want to do that,
absolutely fucking go off. If you if you want to
reject that and uh, you know not do any of that,
absolutely go off. Also, Like it's just it's all about
like choice and doing what you and that's punk and

(01:03:10):
that's why VR do s. I always find it interesting
to watch, um women are not of my generation trying
to navigate these issues and like how I don't know.
My mom was pretty open to stuff, but sometimes she
genuinely is like, wait, I'm confused. Where we were hanging out.

(01:03:33):
I was pool side with my mommy incredible um, and
she like noticed that I had shaved my armpits, which
usually I don't, but I just sort of like, I
don't know, I just felt like it. So I did,
and I didn't think anything of it because I was
like whatever, And she was like, wait, I thought you
didn't shave your armpits because you're a feminist, and like

(01:03:56):
she was like coming from a good place. She's like,
I'm confused. I thought that you didn't do that because
because of your rights. And I was like and then
I was like weirdly having a hard time to describe.
She's like, why did you do it? I was like,
I don't know. I just wanted to. And I was like,
that's what I was saying that that's what That's what
I mean. I just should be able to do whatever

(01:04:19):
the funk. I want to not think about it. So
but for a second I was in my head. I
was like, have I regressed? And I was like no,
I think it's just like a little uncomfortable, and so
it's just that you can do whatever you want with
your body. So I just thought it was fascinating to
like have that be something that like Bobo is very

(01:04:40):
clearly grappling with and like the scene where she goes
to meet up with Ellis one on one, she has
like spiked her hair the way that the other boy
she likes taught her to do it, and she takes
off her glasses. I think because she perceives like her
glasses is something that makes her less attractive. So like
she's making these conscious choice is to um, you know,

(01:05:02):
appear more attractive because she is in this like kind
of like between a rock and a hard place kind
of thing where she's like, well, I want to be
punk and I want to reject beauty standards, but I
also have this boy that I want to think things.
I'm like this boy that I want to think I'm cute,
so very relatable and like you were alluding to me,

(01:05:25):
like a lot of punk boys like still uphold those
same standards while like technically being like, oh yeah, like punk,
but with the asterisks of like unless I personally don't
think it's hot, like kind of again, It's it's funny
because like I have this very you know, this conception,
like I'm going through my like teens and twenties like

(01:05:46):
as a boy, even though my twenties was as a
boy named Margaret who addresses um. But people would basically
be like really shyly, like I've seen people both be
afraid of being rejected. I've seen women in particular be
afraid of being rejected for not shaving and for shaving,
you know, and like and most of the people that

(01:06:07):
I'm talking to have had the experiences of being rejected
for one or the other, because you will meet these
like punk boys who are like, I can't believe you shave,
you know, um, and I don't know. It's it's it's
really it sucks to be a girl in our society.
I just really like the way that this movie examines

(01:06:30):
that in a way that's like not even a huge
part of the story, but it's just like it's something
that's obviously on like any teenager's mind or like it
just like especially girls who are conditioned to I think
that they need to be attractive and like do things
to make them seem attractive, especially to boys. So again,

(01:06:52):
I just yeah, I liked that that was a part
of the movie. And then that scene where they like
give the guitar to head Vig to like that they're like, well,
first let's show you. We have to show you how
to do it, and then she's just like okay, and
then they give it to her and she's like, first
of all, it's out of tune. And then secondly she
and then she like plays it so well, and you

(01:07:16):
just see the faces of those two guys and they're like,
oh shit, like in in such a satisfying way. And
they did that off they too, where they like try
to like weirdly play it off and act like they
knew she could do that the whole time in a
way that's completely possibly. They're like yeah, yeah, cool. It's

(01:07:40):
like because even those people are like overly earnest, right,
there're still they're being they're making unintelligent decisions. Um, but
they're like not bad people. They're like, you know, they're
just like being misogynist, right, but they're like, I don't know,
it's just they're so earnest about that. They're like, oh,
really excited for this thing, and you know, and they're

(01:08:02):
so excited that they got the electric guitar, like you
know that they like went through a bunch of work
to like get the girl band the electric guitar or whatever. Um, yeah,
and I have them shipped just for full disclosure. Um,
those two men, Oh yeah, I like that. I like
that establishing with locals and being in love. Yeah, it's

(01:08:28):
like it's misogyny and not necessarily a hateful way, but
it's just like they assume that because they're girls, they
can't do anything, or they assumed that like you know,
oh you're you're a girl. You're girls in a band,
so you're a girl band. And it's like they want
to like help like include and like be inclusive and

(01:08:53):
like yeah, girls can be in girl bands. Sure, but
it's but they're they're misogyny manifests in a way that um,
they just like don't trust that a girl could do anything. Okay,
although I hate to say in their defense because I
don't really mean it, but they've heard bo bo and

(01:09:16):
that is they are not they're chronically not instruction. Yeah,
that's true. That's true. It's I do love that they're
just bad like they're they're not. And well that's also
like like very realistic. Yeah, they have never really taken

(01:09:41):
a music lesson. They don't know how to play the
instruments they're playing, and their band absolutely sucks carrying the
whole band on her back. But it's like that's also
why punk is the revolutionary like not in terms of
actual social change, but no offense to it. Um. But
because that's the whole thing. I love that punk and
like other genres do this too, right, but I love

(01:10:03):
that punk is like you can be awful, you can
be just absolutely awful, and you can still play shows,
Like you can have fun and you can play shows
one because some of the music is dead simple, and
two because no one cares if it's really bad. Um,
because it's about the aesthetic that you're creating. It's an
aesthetic that is that you can create easily, you know.

(01:10:25):
And then at the same time, like they still also
really like these really good bands I do. I will
say though that the part where I'm like, I expected
the boys that they go meet up with, I'm wondering
if you all had this. I expected them to be
like at least sixteen or seventeen. Um. I did not
realize that they were because they're in a magazine and

(01:10:47):
then you see them and you're like, I thought they
were gonna be like, oh my god, what are we
going to do with these thirteen year olds who showed up?
You know? And I was expecting either very dark turn
or just lots of awkwardness. Um, But then they're also yeah,
who are who are a little better at their bands?
A little better at who do play better music, but

(01:11:09):
like like he's dead and Clara's kind of like you
can tell a dead guy to fun. You're like, that's true,
you can. And then like the big concert at the

(01:11:30):
end of the movie, the way that like the third
act of most movies have like that big event that
you know, everything's been leading up to this, and usually
it's like this big epic, like extremely climactic like moment
in the movie. But the big concert quote unquote at
the end of this movie is maybe my favorite version

(01:11:50):
of this that I've ever seen, because it goes horribly there.
They don't play the music well, everyone's yelling at them
and calling them communist counts, and then they just say, well,
fuck you, fuck you in your shitty town. We are
the best. And it's just like such a beautiful, like
climactic moment of like of the movie. And uh, I

(01:12:16):
feel like they in a way they kind of like
they started like a small riot, like they did a
very punk thing. So it's great, like and I love
that they like it's not even like it's a contest again,
I'm just school of frocking it, but it's like they
like they had an awesome I didn't there there's so

(01:12:38):
few like examples of like I don't know, just like
kids doing stuff too because they want to and like
it's fun and like that's I don't know. I mean
I think I know that that's like somewhat of a
generational thing too, but like, uh, you know, being raised
to like excel at stuff and like if you're not

(01:12:58):
good at it, there's no point been doing it. I
feel like that is like a very more modern and
it seems to be like dissipating a little bit, but
definitely like a very strong millennial like instilled in you
of like, well you do things be to become a resume,
like not because you just want to kind of funk
around and have fun. If working around and having fun

(01:13:20):
as a waste of time. And to see these kids
like be not very good kind of know that they
want to be better, but it's not like they're not
like losing sleepover being better and they're just like sucking
around and having a good time. It's just I don't know,
it shouldn't feel so refreshing to see kids sucking around
and having a good time without like having a meltdown

(01:13:41):
of like I'm not good enough. At this but it
was I mean, it was it was cool. We normally
would see like the Merry Sue version of like, well
they start playing instruments and they get so good so fast,
and I know there are criticisms about like to criticize
something because it's a Merry Sooth thing. I don't know.
We'll get we'll get into it in another episode. But

(01:14:04):
normally you'd have like, oh, there they start playing music,
and yeah, they're kind of bad at first, but then
we see a training montage and then they're really good afterwards.
And that never happens in this movie because it takes
really long because it takes a really long time to
get good at an instrument, and they are where they

(01:14:25):
kind of like don't have to if they don't want
to anyway, Like, yeah, girls and women being mediocre, we
should see more of it. It's something to celebrate. So
one time I was a drummer for a band on tour.
I'm not a drummer. I do not play drums. I technically, um,
I have some drums I built that are actually within

(01:14:46):
read but I hit them and I record them and
then I program the sounds that they make. UM. But
one time, ten years ago or something. My friend is
in this uh, this goth band, it's fairly punk. We're like, hey, come,
we kicked out our key tar player. We need a
third person for a band. Come on tour with us.
And I was like, I'd love to play keytar and
they're like, no, no, no, we want a drummer. And
I'm like, I'd love to play keytar for you, and

(01:15:08):
they were like, we'll fly you out two weeks early
and you have two weeks to hang out in our
apartment and learn how to play drums. But there's another
way that you can't get away with being mediocre, which
is electronic music. And so because I was playing this
electronic drum kit, but there's so many backing tracks going
on that on my my friend's wedding anniversary is this

(01:15:30):
power couple band. We're playing in Providence from Island, and
I just start fucking drifting. I've like lost everything. I'm
just like drifting off. I'm like fucking lost, and and
the guitar yeah, and he walks over and he presses
this pedal that he never told me about that that
mutes me and brings up backing tracks of exactly what

(01:15:51):
I'm playing for the rest of the night. I'm a
glorified stage dancer, um, pretending play drums of drums, and

(01:16:13):
I was I was so grateful because I was like,
I told you, I'm not a fucking drummer, right, So
you can't learn to play drums in two weeks. All
you have to do is uh fail, yeah, play fail
on stage always far yeah. Oh my god. I Stories.

(01:16:35):
I keep to listen to Margaret stories all day, Like, okay, wait,
I have one more about I wrote this one down
because I have to figure out how to shoehorn this
and it's about a Swedish punk girl. Um. And one
time I'm in I'm in Sweden and I'm staying at
this cooperatively owned I've only spent like maybe a total

(01:16:55):
like three weeks in Sweden, but I'm really impressed by
a lot of stuff that's going on. I'm in town
for the anarchist but fair and the anarchists also owned
this entire apartment building that's cooperatives. Sorry, it's it's co
op owned, so instead of having to live in a
communal house, you get your own whole apartment. But then
the whole building is a cooperative, so there's some shared
infrastructure and these like more hippie ish anarchists or whatever.

(01:17:16):
They have this punk kid who's like nine, and she's
like she's convinced her best friend, who's this boy, to
be in a band with her. And she's like mom, Mom, Mom.
And she doesn't speak English and she's like, mom, you
have to interpret for me because I'm going to play
Margaret a song. And so I got to see this, uh,
this band of two nine year old maybe ten year

(01:17:37):
old Swedish kids and and it was like one of
them has a keyboard and I don't know if the
other one had an instrument, and they're just like da
da da, I don't want to go to bed. I
hate bedtime. I want want to go to bed. And
it ruled. It was the most punk thing I've ever seen.
It was a it was just me and mom in

(01:17:58):
the audience. Uh. And I it's like I wrote this down,
is like I don't know where to shoehorn this in,
but I really am excited to tell the story. That's
the perfect Oh my god, and what and actually broke
my head a little bit. Just realize that those two
kids are now adults. Um. And so if you ever
played this please reach out to me. They are the

(01:18:23):
biggest fans and listeners of the Battle Cast. I mean,
stranger things have happened in regards to this show, like
people just pop their head out of the woodwork. Wait
that is so, that's beautiful. And they also were teaching
me Swedish um as we would like walk through the forest.
They were basically like, what's wrong with this idiot? Why

(01:18:44):
doesn't she understand Swedish, which is a perfectly legitimate question
when I'm in Sweden. Um. And so they're just like
pointing out objects and telling me the word for them,
and um, and all I remember is hop and skip up.
This is the like which is jump and run. Um.
But oh but that sounds so English words. Yeah, and

(01:19:06):
I remember because it was like nine year olds jumping
up and down quite hot. Do you understand? Do you understand?
And what do you say? Everyone? Let's take another break,
Let's do it, let's do it, let's do it. I
I wade that like a bunch of like little things

(01:19:26):
that you're just like, Wow, great childhood. Okay, let's finger
toothbrush culture loved impromptu sleepover finger toothbrush. Been there, done that,
been there, done that? You still go there every once
in a while. You never know when Fingertoothbrush is going
to come back into the mix. I wrote down a

(01:19:47):
bunch of things that I loved here. Let me see
um the So there's that scene where they're thinking of
recruiting hell Vig, but they're like, but she's a Christian
and I'm not sure if this is going to work out,
And then Bobo says, will we will influence her away
from God? The funniest line of dialogue in the world,

(01:20:10):
And then they're like, actually, it will be really like
political of us to hang out with someone less fortunate, um,
because she doesn't have any friends and so she's less fortunate.
And then and then they say if she doesn't stop
being a Christian, will kick her out. And then Clara
plays her plays head Vig a song called hang God

(01:20:31):
and then tries to convince her that it's a Christian song.
That whole string of events was so funny, and I
also like the head Vig in spite of and now
it makes sense. I'm seeing now, Margaret that um that
the filmmaker is um a pretty devout Christian but also
a feminist, and like that that they don't talk head

(01:20:55):
vig out of being a Christian. I think that she
remains a Christian punk the whole time and like stays
true to herself and her friends, except that about her,
which is like just another fun like little thing that
they don't draw a ton of attention to. But God,
I love that's like where you're like, man, kids like um,
kids like Clara are the best when they're just like

(01:21:17):
they go so hard, they're so reckless, and they're like,
I'm gonna I'm gonna kill God, catch up as God. Gosh.
I love when Clara Clara calls her brother a fascist
and a cop because he doesn't want her and Bobo
to stay in the room during his party. He doesn't

(01:21:37):
want a thirteen year old to get drunk and so
he is a fashion cop. She's like, you're a fascist.
And the drinking age is probably in Sweden for beer
and wine at this point. I'm not and I know
that at least the beer age was sixteen at some
point while I was there, and I was really confused.

(01:21:58):
My biggest not criticism of this film, but the hardest
part to connect for me is that these are the
biggest problems. Yes, it's like sure, and it's kind of
interesting to me because like punk is this like you know,
this music of the the rejected, the music of rebellion
or whatever. But it's it's actually kind of cool because

(01:22:19):
it I think it has like an inherent almost critique
of punk within it and that it's like Clara is
the most punk and she's rejecting her perfectly loving family
and that's useful to her, right, It's like useful for
her to you know, separate herself out from her parents
or whatever. But like, you know, you can see why
this might not connect with the the modern person coming

(01:22:44):
up into a like will there is there a future?
Right um? And which which is part of the crucible
of punk being formed as you know, cold war lack
of future or whatever. And I don't know, but it's
just it's it's really interest see to because it's this
very uh, it's it's a very middle class punk set up,

(01:23:06):
although you also get the impression that the middle classes
because of a strong social net, like because a single
mom is also totally fine at least appears to be
totally fine financially. Obviously, she has emotional issues that her
child is perfectly willing to help her deal with, which
is very sweet. Um. I don't know anyway, that was
the part for me that I was like, it actually

(01:23:26):
made me kind of sad, like nostalgic for when there's
a future. Yeah, yeah, I did also kind of because
I also was like, I'm maybe just not familiar enough
with the economics of Sweden, but it did seem to
be like a lower middle class, Like they weren't their
immediate needs were always met. They didn't seem to encounter

(01:23:49):
people whose immediate needs were not being met. Um, which
is fine, but yeah, like that is like a very
specific class sliver of punk kids to show. Um, I
wanted to I wanted to talk really quickly about the
parents too, because Bobo, Um, I mean Clara, I kind

(01:24:12):
of like that Clara's family structure. It's like almost presented
in a jokey way of like Clara uh wants to
have more problems than she maybe actually does. Um, her
family is really sweet and her biggest problem with her
brother likes joy division now and like her dad is
annoying when he plays the clarinet. Like very very sweet family. Um,

(01:24:35):
Bobo's I like that, Bobo is I think my impression
anyways was that like her introvertedness and her like insecurities
probably are connected to her home life as well, because like,
I don't know, I found this to be kind of
like a relatable dynamic of like she's it's like her

(01:24:58):
mom clearly loves her very much, like wants to be supportive,
wants to be there for her, but needs parenting herself,
and so like just like the Bobo knows way too
much about her mom's personal life, and like her mom
sometimes treats her more as a friend than a guardian.
She doesn't always know where she is, like stuff that
it's like, But I also like that it's like it's

(01:25:20):
she's not positioned as like a bad parent, but it's
like clear that their relationship is complicated and that she
can't be there for Bobo in all the ways that Bobo,
you know, needs an adult Headpig's mom too like embarrassing

(01:25:42):
to religious mom culture. She was like, my friends are
going to disown me because my mom is threatening to
arrest them h and drag them to church like calling
the Mr. Doesn't ever say you can't hang out with
those two their bad influence. Yeah, Yeah, It's like there

(01:26:04):
there's a lot of gray area in people in the
way that like exists in the real world and also
feels so like small community vibes where it's like they
like you're saying earlier market with the like the two
guys who run the youth center, it's like they are
not bad people, but they just have some ingrained behaviors

(01:26:27):
that these kids are challenging in them that they're like
not quite ready to unlearn, and like, but this is
the youth center, So where else are they going to go?
They have to like learn how to talk to each
other because this is the only place where there's one
bass guitar and one drum kit and like, yeah, yeah,
I also love that that scene where Hedwig's mom like

(01:26:50):
fixes Bobo and Clara like cookies and milk and tea,
like cookies and tea and drinks and snacks, and then
she sits them down. She's like, I'm gonna put I'm
going to report him to the police. But before that,
she's like, can I get you anything? Do you want
more cookies? Do you think it was all a faint

(01:27:10):
Like do you think because because clearly that you have
to go with church with me was just a moral lesson, right,
not an actual attempt to force them to go to church.
Do you think that the I'm going to call the
police was like an actual threat or a way to
make them take it so seriously that they had to
come over to talk. I think it was the latter.
I think it was just like, these kids need to

(01:27:31):
wake up call and I'm gonna in best case scenario,
she scares them into going to church. Like that's the
best case scenario for But yeah, I also did really
appreciate I I fully thought, just based on like movie logic,
that that would result in Headvig not being allowed to
hang out with them anymore. Um, totally, but you know,

(01:27:53):
they put her in check, and I like that it
kind of remained a little ambiguous whether like head Vig
sent one at that haircut or not, Like she didn't
end up being upset about it and it looks great, um,
but there. I mean, that's like a very another very
middle school thing where like you like, you're like, I'm
not as old than this. It's not going to hurt me,

(01:28:17):
but I don't know. And then you know, maybe he
talked to an adult later and you're like, IM bummed out,
and then they you know, and then hopefully they don't
threaten to arrest your friends, but sometimes that will happen.
I guess. Well. Also, it was like, you know, because
little Sister is the snitch, Little Sister is the only
bad character in the the only villain snitches them out,

(01:28:41):
and you get the impression that it was little Sister
says I saw her trying not to get her hair cut,
which is like true, you know, um, but it's like
not the whole story. It seems like she probably was,
and you all were talking about this earlier, and I
really resonated with it. It's like I really needed my
friends who kicked dragged me kicking and screaming into trouble.

(01:29:04):
Um a little bit lucky, but it worked out as
well as it did. Um, But I really appreciate it
because I was also the like, you know, like, I
don't know, guys, if we should really crime right now right?
Sometimes you need the friend that's like this is this

(01:29:24):
is a good crime. We're going to do this one
yeah totally, And you're like, oh, okay, cool, yeah yeah
mm hmm. And then I love that it's it's head
vig at the end when um Clara and Bobo are
fighting over Ellis, with which again, like on the surface,
that just might seem like a oh, two girls fighting

(01:29:46):
over a boy, like, but like, I don't know the
way it's handled in this movie, it's just more than
I like that. It's like clear, that's like they're fighting
about the basic guitar there. Yeah, that basically they're fighting
about how the bar always steam rolls bow bow and
tells her what she wants exactly right totally um. But
on the surface, and yeah, it just kind of seems

(01:30:07):
like they're fighting over a boy. And I love the
head vague facilitates. They're like makeup and she's like, now
you look the other one in the eye and say
I like you. And then now it's your turn. You
do it. You say I like you to your friend,
and then they do it, and it's so sweet and

(01:30:28):
I just there bond their their friendship between the three
of them is just so precious. And I because I
wrote down in my like my notes, uh, one of
the lines is a feature length of exploration of being
why heterosexuals is a shame um, because it's like they're

(01:30:48):
all like fighting over these boys that they don't actually
like and they but then I actually later after really
sitting with it. I was like, you know, I actually
this works really well, Like it's it's not it's not
declaring any of these characters heterosexual, but it is definitely
saying that, like at least at least two of them
have had her sexual love interests. We don't head. VIC
has like a moment, right, which could mean anything when

(01:31:10):
you're like when you're you, and I actually realized in
some ways, I think if it was made now in
the US, it might end up like more directly a
queer film, and that wouldn't be inherently bad. But there's
actually something really pure about the fact that they just
sort of don't know what they're doing within this context. Um,

(01:31:32):
I don't know. I had this moment where I was like, wait,
am I glad that anyway? I I don't know where
I'm going with this. I'm just done. Now. Are you
saying you're shipping more of the characters? Well? Like, perhaps no,
but it's like you see the way that you know,
we we think so much in society, or at least
I do, like especially since I do a lot of

(01:31:52):
like history research and and no one ever writes about
the homosexuality of people before, right, and you you have
this like gap How's problem where it's like you cannot
tell who's gay in history because is she just a
cat lady who lives in a tower by herself, or
is she a cat lady who lives with her best
friend in the tower by the two of themselves? Like

(01:32:13):
that still doesn't actually tell you whether or not they
we're dating, um, or whether or not this person has
no interest in men like ace characters are also people
are written out of history and so no, I I
lost my train of thought here. Um, But it's okay,
So they have a lot of like gal pal energy, right,

(01:32:35):
but that's also just an honest way that humans can interact.
Like one of the things that I think is one
of the biggest shames about patriarchy. Um, clearly the treatment
of women are being a bigger deal. But but you
see old video, you know, you see old pictures of
men and they can interact with other men in ways
that are affectionate without its saying anything one way or

(01:32:57):
the other about the sexuality. Um. We talk about this
quite a bit on the show where like Different how Like.
I think we talked about this most recently on Top Gun,
the Top Gun episode where everyone's like this is the
gayest movie ever made. And it's like, well, that might
be true, and maybe those characters are queer and interested

(01:33:21):
in each other, or that queer and not interested in
each other like it could be, or they're just friends
who have male affection toward each other. It could be
any number of things. But people automatically look at male
affection and ascribe, oh, they must be gay, um to it. So,
which is like, you know, it's it's more complicated than that,

(01:33:45):
and you know there's a lot there's a bigger discussion
to be had, but um, yeah, let's let's let people
be friends, you know, and speaking about you're talking about
Margaret of like, I mean it's like, yeah, we have
we have no idea where these kids are gonna like
land in terms of their identity, and I like that

(01:34:05):
you kind of get the feeling even like every single
party between like the two middle school punk bands, like
it's fully like they're performing for each other of like
oh we are in we're we are dating. No, we're not,
And like I'm putting my arm around you. What does

(01:34:25):
it mean I'm touching your hand? Like there, it's like
like any kid, Yeah, it's almost like okay, well, this
is how I have seen heterosexuality laid out for me,
especially like eight two, I can't imagine, uh, and like
now I am doing it, and then it's like who
knows what happens down the line when um, yeah, it's

(01:34:48):
it's it's sweet, and the way it's presented is like innocent,
even when you're right with with with Ellis. And also
I mean to Ellis's cry at it, you know, way
easier to go to someone you just fucking fall off
the map doesn't matter, especially because he appears to live

(01:35:12):
in a suburb, which they make fun of himymore. They're like,
where what is this? There's a forest over here and
he's like no. The last thing I kind of wanted
to touch on, and I think this might go back
to sort of that like beauty standards conversation. But um,
there's that scene where Clara and Bobo are talking to

(01:35:37):
two girls. It's toward the beginning of the movie working together,
like the leotard, very spandex like yeah do do do
do do? Yeah? The dance at the at the talent show. Um, yes,
they because those are girls who like they're wearing Pastel's

(01:35:58):
and they're blonde. Is long, and they're kind of like
giving bobone Clara a hard time for just like looking
the way they do and behaving the way they do.
And I feel like, uh, this, this is reminiscent of
the like, well, our characters are not like the other

(01:36:22):
Girls thing. But again, the way it's presented in this movie,
it's it's it just it felt different than that. It
just it felt more like, yeah, these two characters are
you know, kind of they would be considered oddballs quote

(01:36:43):
unquote by like mainstream society because they're very intentionally doing that,
like you know try you know, like rejecting societies standards,
um and the will. They are kind of casting judgment
on these like quote unquote normy girls. It just I

(01:37:06):
don't know, I cannot explain why it feels different. But
the way we criticized they, like, I didn't feel like,
you know, like, oh, they're not like the other girls.
Didn't feel like a movie bullying like that, didn't they
didn't even feel like even like a movie bullying interactions
like that. I felt like kids that were like, like

(01:37:27):
the girls were being mean too, Bobbo and Clara. Yes, yes,
I was like, oh god, these many Olivia dudont John's
are telling them that Punk is dead. That's that's gotta hurt,
that's gotta sting. Um. But it did feel like, I

(01:37:48):
don't know, it just feel like a very like kid
interaction of like no one really knows what they're talking
about in this interaction. Um. It didn't feel like the
like overwritten middle school bullies that you're used to saying
in movies. It was like like, yeah, these kids are
not going to be friends. They don't have a lot
of respect for each other. But it's not like I

(01:38:10):
don't know, Yeah I agree, and and and I feel
like it's you avoid the like not like other girls
trope by just like getting to know that character, which
is what this this entire movie is. It's like we
know so much about their background, like what draws them
to Punk, what draws them to each other, and and
all this stuff like it'll makes sense. It does. So, Yeah,

(01:38:33):
that was the last thing I wanted to touch on.
Is there anything else I think that I guess like
from an intersectional point of view, it's like worth pointing
out that I believe the entire cast like is entirely white. Um,
And yeah, I kind of like did a little bit
of but not a ton of digging too, Like you know,

(01:38:53):
it's just like there's a certain amount you can just
sort of say, like Swede, you know, um right, I
feel like Sweden is kind of famously rather homogeneous in
terms of not entirely demographic fixed, not entirely, but like
it is not quite the like cultural melting pot is

(01:39:17):
like other places. Um. But yeah, I I definitely um um.
I was curious about that too, because I'm like, is
this just what the demographics of Sweden were at this time?
But they're also in a major city, and it did
feel like this is this is especially white even for

(01:39:38):
Sweden my understanding, and I I'm not an expert in this.
I know a little bit more about Finland than I do.
I avoided all of the problems that you while we're
talking about about accidentally causing drama within your friend groups
by dating people. But I just dated a finished girl
all throughout high school who lived in a different country,
and so I got to you wouldn't know if she
doesn't go here, she's in one in this country. UM.

(01:40:01):
Love that. Yeah, And which honestly was probably my like
low key way of just being like, I don't actually
want to date. This all seems weird and let's see. UM.
So I don't know as much about Sweden, and probably
some of the listeners do, but I'm I'm under the
impression one that UM, at least more recently, the suburbs
versus city thing is inverted in Sweden and a lot

(01:40:24):
of places in Europe. UM, the suburbs would actually be
more of a marker of being poor, uh, and also
be more likely to have a more stronger immigrant culture
to to my understanding, and this does not reflect back
to the eighties UM. And then also a lot of
the waves of immigration from UM I believe mostly North

(01:40:47):
Africa and UM swanna. Is that the way that I'm
new to this terminology UM Southwest Asia and north Northern Africa. UM.
I mean I believe that was more like the mid
to late nineties. UM. But I again not a demographics expert,
and I but one of the only reasons worth bringing

(01:41:08):
it up is one there's a coziness to this particular
punk fantasy or whatever that that's very sweet but is
like complicated by the current rising. I'm really not trying
to hold this movie to these standards, but it's just
like feels worth pointing out that like, um, there's a
lot of problems with racism in particular in Sweden. Again

(01:41:31):
not trying to pretend like I don't live in a
country full of racism, but like so, there's a certain
amount of like the all whitenesses feels it's like marked
to me because of the current context. But I don't
have enough information to know whether it feels marked to
the context in which it was made or the context
of the time it represents. As always, if there are
any UM listeners who can shed more light on this,

(01:41:55):
listeners from Sweden, UM or just anyone who has more information,
feel free to share. UM No, I'm glad you brought
it up, though, because that's something that I think sometimes
we are guilty of of being like, well, yeah, this
movie sucks on the issue of race, but we we
don't know, we have enough information, so we're not sure,

(01:42:15):
and then we kind of drop it in a way
that we probably should not. We should continue to research
and have a better perspective UM on the whole, because
I mean, like so many movies, there is no reason
that the cast to this movie should be all white.
You're making a fucking movie and also there's no way
that was true. Um, that that could be true? So, um,

(01:42:39):
does that bring us to the Bachchel test, of which
which this movie passes very handily, almost constantly, mostly between
Bobo Clara and head Vig and um, but yeah, there's
there's other combinations. But yeah, it's a girls talking about

(01:43:02):
punk music, it's girls talking about religion, it's girls talking
about sometimes you know, boys and ellis and stuff. But um, yeah,
it's it's a whole handful of many different things I know,
and it's it's so effortless. It's just like what the
story is. And I love that we get to see

(01:43:24):
every kind of facet of these kids inner world. It's awesome.
I love it. I'm excited to watch it again to
recommend it. It's also like, if you haven't watched this movie,
it's streaming on goddamn tube. It's amazing great, So if
you haven't watched it and you enjoyed this episode, get

(01:43:45):
to it. So let's let's go. Let's get to our
our nipple scale. Nipple scales zero to five nipples based
on how the movie fares when we examine it through
an intersectional feminist lens, and I would say I would
give this, I think like a four point five um
be cut docking it a little bit for but again, like, uh,

(01:44:10):
it's that tricky thing where it's like maybe these just
were the demographics of Sweden and nineteen early nineteen eighties,
or maybe it was just that they, you know, didn't
think to be more inclusive. So um, I'll cautiously give
it four and a half nipples um because I think

(01:44:34):
that otherwise it's doing a lot of really amazing things
as far as just like centering a female friendship, centering
just like girls in punk music, Like there's just not
many stories about that. Um. I think the examination of
how different things like beauty standards and romance and misogyny

(01:45:01):
and like because they're in uh in like music, which
is often kind of like a male dominated thing, and
they are dealing with those youth center guys and the
Iron Fist band and like being misogynists towards them in

(01:45:24):
kind of subtle ways and not like overtly hateful ways,
but like things that they still have to deal with,
and just like all of those interesting, nuanced things that
the movie explores in a very like seamless and effortless
and authentic way I thought was really awesome. So I'm
gonna give the movie four and a half nipples. I'll
give one to each of the gals in the band. Um,

(01:45:50):
I'll give one to the child acting in general, which
I thought was incredible. UM. I famously and very critical
of child acting on the show. Uh. And maybe it's
just because it's in a language that I don't speak,
but I think you can. You can still tell when
acting is good or bad even if you're not speaking

(01:46:12):
that language. And I think it was really good acting.
And then I'll give my half nipple two Um clarinet
Dad clarinet, Dad's clarinet. As a former clarinet player myself,
I gotta show the clarinet some love. I'll go. I'll

(01:46:32):
go four point five as well. I do think it's
worth bringing up that there's no country that having a
completely white cast. Uh, you know, especially in a coming
of age story, where like there was room for diversity
in the story. There's no reason it needed to um
be the way it was. I think I'm glad that
we got to discuss that. And I really love this movie.

(01:46:57):
I feel like it's a representation of girlhood and just
the I don't know the like kind of like incredibly specific,
specifically specific specificity. Let's go with that of but of
of like uncomfortable coming of age experiences and like trying
to figure your ship out and contradicting yourself all the time,

(01:47:18):
and your parents suck, but they're trying and like it.
Just there are so many like universal cool themes being
explored here. I really love it and give it for nipples.
I'd give one one each two head Vig, Bobo and
Clara on to give one to Clarinet Dad, and I'll

(01:47:41):
give the last half nipple with with a vote of
faith that she'll do about her in the future to
head Vig's little sister, the villain of the story. Yeah,
maybe she was just actually really concerned for you know,
headig sake. Yeah, she really thought head Vig was gonna
go to hell for that there, I mean speaking of

(01:48:04):
calling a sibling a fascist, and she was the fascist
to write a song about her. I'm also going to
take the cheap way out and copy the same number
of nipples that you all give it. But I do
feel like it feels it feels right to me, Um,
I will give And four point five is like the

(01:48:24):
punkest because you're like, I really liked it, but I
can't not be critical. Yeah, exactly, it's not perfect. And
oh my god. I used to review things on good
Reads before I had published books, and I used it
like I didn't know that the internet meant five stars
is good and everything below it means it's absolute garbage.
And so I used to like accurately rate things, and

(01:48:47):
then people will get mad at me, Like after I
started publishing books, people will go to my good Reads
and be like, I can't believe Margaret Kiljoy gave four
stars to this other book as if as if her
books are better, and I'm like, no, I would have
given my book four stars, Like I know what's wrong
with it. I wrote it, you know. But anyway, um
from anyway, So one nipple goes to Clara's suit, one

(01:49:10):
nipple goes to it being top three punk movies. UM.
One to the fact that they're not I'm not giving
them to people, I apologize. One is to the fact
that they're not a punk band. Sorry, they're not a
girl band. Sorry, terrible slip. Um one is to the
fact that there is no doubt in my mind that
these girls would have taken in a trans girl. There's

(01:49:32):
no part of me that thinks that they would have
rejected me from their crew. Um and my my half
nipple goes to them fishing for people with yarn out
the window. That's true. We we cannot forget. Yeah the
absolute and then and then shout out to have you

(01:49:54):
all seen together. I'm this guy's other movie about a
It's the best movie about a communal house that I've
ever seen, like in terms of like how communal living works.
It's a very similarly overly earnest, beautiful film. I've also
only saw it once, like five or six years ago.
I didn't know it's the same director. I just thought
Swedes were particularly good at making cozy films about things

(01:50:15):
that I like. Anyway, sorry for shoehorning and everything that
I want to not even a little bit um, Margaret,
it was such a treat having you. What would you
like to plug? Where can people follow you on social media?
All of that? Well, if you like hearing me talk

(01:50:37):
about things I like, I have a podcast called Cool
People Who Did Cool Stuff. You can hear me tell
Jamie Loftus about the time that spain Um stole itself
back from the bosses and the fascists for a little while. Um,
absolutely treat and that is a good place to find me.
It's on cool Zone Media and you can follow me

(01:50:59):
on Twitter at Magpie kill Joy. You can follow me
on Instagram at Margaret Killjoy. And I guess if you
like google my name, plus book or music or something,
you can find the other stuff I do. Hell yeah, yeah,
thank you. So we're so I'm like just genuinely thrilled.
Uh you're on the show. I'm so glad we got

(01:51:19):
to talk about a punk movie. I don't think we've
ever covered a punk movie on Uh. So I think
it's good and important that we brought an authority in
for the occasion. Uh, thank you, so, thank you so
much again for being here. Everyone listen to everything Market does.
It's the best as for us. You can find us

(01:51:41):
on social media and Instagram and Twitter at Bechdel Cast.
You join our patreon ak Matreon, where we cover two
additional movies just Caitlin and I every month, and there's
also a backlog of over a hundred episodes. There so
lots of lots of fun to be had over in
the Matreon. We've got our merch which you can find

(01:52:06):
at t public dot com, slash the Bechtel Cast. Jamie,
in a very punk way, designs all of it classic punk.
I think everyone's gonna be like Caitlyn Do, like he's
pretty wide punk in your heart. Um, it's true. I

(01:52:32):
like it when the one boy is kind of criticizing
what Clara is wearing and he's like, you don't look
very punk, and she's like, it's the opinions that matter.
It's like, yeah, it's you gotta have those punk opinions.
So anyway, Jamie does design all of our march and
you can grab that again at public dot com, slash
the backtel cast and uh, you know, rate review Us, etcetera,

(01:52:57):
and uh, otherwise, we are the best. You're the best,
bet Bye bye

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