Science R U OK? The Legal Right To Creep 07.30.25

In episode 1905, Jack and Miles are joined by wildlife ecologist and conservationist, host of Going Wild, and co-host of Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, Dr. Rae Wynn-Grant, to discuss… Is Science Going To Be Ok? 4000 NASA Employees Are Leaving, Thanks To Trump Cuts, Cheating Ex-CEO May Sue Coldplay Over Kiss Cam and more!

1. EPA moves to repeal landmark finding that allows climate regulation
2. Republicans across the country are pushing bills to stop government 'weather modification'
3. Navy Set to Unplug Critical Hurricane Satellites this Week
4. 4000 NASA Employees Are Leaving
5. Trump's NASA cuts will 'compromise human safety,' hundreds of employees say in letter
6. Gwyneth Paltrow’s latest role is ‘very temporary’ Astronomer spokesperson
7. Ex-Astronomer CEO Andy Byron to sue Coldplay for 'emotional distress' & 'invasion of privacy' over kiss-cam video: 'They made me a...'
8. Should You Expect Privacy at a Concert? Coldplay Incident Sparks Debate
9. Sleeping fan files $10M lawsuit
10. Yankees Fan Caught Sleeping Sues ESPN for $10 Million (Video)
11. Fan sleeps in stands during game vs. Red Sox
12. Yankee Fan's Defamation Suit Is Put To Sleep
13. The Problem With Using Face Recognition on Fans at a Taylor Swift Concert
14. Madison Square Garden uses facial recognition tech to scan for legal adversaries
15. Face Recognition Threatens to Replace Tickets, ID at Sports Events – and Beyond
16. Artists boycotting venues that use facial recognition technology

LISTEN: Chroma 008 Tangz feat. ELIZA by BICEP

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, everybody good.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
It's it's been a while hard to track down. I've
been doing tracking through the wilderness to try and find you. Yeah,
like a broken branch.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
That what you have to do?

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Prints.

Speaker 4 (00:23):
Yeah, I've been eating a lot of droppings miles.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
You're not supposed to talk about that.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
I'm like, nope, we're working on that.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
We're doctor Gret. We're working on that with.

Speaker 4 (00:32):
Isn't that how is that a thing? I thought I
saw a tracker do that in a movie. I don't
know if that's a real the droppings, No, am I
putting my own?

Speaker 1 (00:39):
No, they do that. They do that in the movies.
They do every time. They're like they like they like
find some scat and then they really get open it
up to see what's in it. And then they're like
they're like, oh what you know that is not necessary,
Like you could open it up and be like, oh,
what seed is this? Is it this seed or this seed?
But you wouldn't, like, you know, you just like take

(01:01):
it to your's figure it.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Out, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
I mean, it doesn't tell you what direction the animal.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Due east?

Speaker 4 (01:14):
Yes, no, southeast.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
She's a smart one, clever girl. Clever girl. Hello the
Internet and Welcome to Season three ninety nine, episode three
of dialys Gus production Buyheart Radio Almos didn't make it

(01:40):
through the word season. I think that's the earliest that
I've had trouble see from the beginning, there's been some hiccups.
But yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, like I've gotten on
the Hello. Anyways, this is the podcast where we take
a deep dive into America's shared consciousness. What a fun

(02:00):
concept for a podcast in the year twenty seventeen. That
has been nothing but more and more fun ever since.
America's Shared Consciousness good place. It's Wednesday, July thirtieth, twenty
twenty five. I got to give a big birthday shout
out to my mom. Oh birthday Mom.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
Hapvy birthday Mom.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Happy birthday, Sharon, Sharon, Sharon before right now, you never
just want to put her name. I've never been like, hey, share,
you know, the people who call their parents by.

Speaker 4 (02:33):
Their day should go by Share.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
My dad calls are share sometimes yeah, not share, but share.
But anyways, the best to ever do it? Love you
lots great cookies, great cookies, the best chocolate chip cookies,
the cakeests, most wonderful chocolate chip cookies, among many other things.

Speaker 4 (02:52):
Yeah, yeah, well it is July thirtieth. It's also National
Climb of Mountain Day. It's National Whistleblower Day. Actually shut
out whistleblowers, uh vitally needed in this era. National Father
in Law Day. Shout out Paul, shout out Paul bro
National Cheesecake Day. I thout all those things, cheesecake, whistleblowers,
climbing mountains, fathers in law.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Great, great shout out to. I went out, doctor John,
Doctor John, doctor John. All Right, my name is Jack
O'Brien aka real Wings move between slices of lasagna. I
want courtesy of Zack van Nuss, the real Gee's move
in silence like lasagna from Lil Wayne. Zach Vanus, who says,

(03:37):
I've been locked out of my Discord account for like
eight months, but it appears to be back because I
got this from Discord, also said, but my wife just
started listening to TDZ, so I want to impress her
with some aka's and just came in with a with
a banger right away. You didn't even need that follow
up line, which was I need this. It was good.

(03:58):
You didn't need to beg Zach. It was good. And
we're thrilled, thrilled to have you back in the discord.
One of our longtime fave listeners, zach Us. I'm thrilled
to be joined as always by my co host, mister Miles.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
Grat as Miles Miles Gray, Miles Gray, Yikes, we're all.
I can't even say the basics. My name is Miles Gray,
a lord of Lancasham the Showgun with No Gun. Okay,
I am here. Thank you for having me because when guns,
Miles would have gun problems.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
That's right, Miles. We're thrilled to be joined in our
third seat by one of our favorite guests and acclaimed
wildlife ecologist and conservationist who specializes in researching how human
activity influences the behavior of wild animals. She's a TV
host and the host of the PBS Nature podcast Going
Wild with Doctor ray Win Grant, which makes sense because

(04:55):
she is doctor ray.

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Win Grat, Doctor Rey.

Speaker 5 (05:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Thanks on the show. This is like my third time,
I think time regular. You guys got to start doing
the thing that they do on SNL.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
You know, like a.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Cluck you get a jacket of the fifth time, Yeah,
and our jacket so on SNL the jacket is like
every time they put it on, the hosts are like,
oh my god, this is so nice. When you put
your jacket on, you're like, oh my god, this fell apart.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
Is this fashion?

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah? Actually, we aspire to fashion the arms fall off
of may.

Speaker 4 (05:35):
Somehow faster fashion than fashion light speed. It's actually it's
paper towels we've taped together and jacket.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
It operates on the fast food side of fashion. Fast.
They're like, yeah, we'll have you a jacket in like
five minutes. Way too long have you been?

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Oh my gosh, Well, there's something that I can't talk
about you, but I can't talk about it the next time.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
I come back.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Sick actually, and that is sad. But the like the
reason the adventure that I was on that got me sick,
and I will I will recover, just give me a
couple of weeks. But the adventure I was on that
got me sick is amazing, But I can't talk about
it yet.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
Can you say where you went? Wow?

Speaker 3 (06:27):
It's far into way.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
So what are we talking?

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Like?

Speaker 4 (06:31):
Reading in California?

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I was actually, how about this? I was in a
US territory.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
Okay, okay, okay, we'll leave it there. We'll leave it there.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, I will not. I'm going to be guessing and
trying to like prod you for answers the whole thing.
I want to solve.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
This compromise, this project Jack with your questions.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Uh well, doctor Graham, We're thrilled to have you back.
We're going to get to know you a little bit
better in a moment. First, we are going to tell
the listeners a couple of things that we're talking about
on today's episode. We're gonna look at some of the
changes that are happening when it comes to the United
States and its relationship to science, and ask is science

(07:12):
going to be okay? And does it even matter? I mean,
do we really need this science stuff?

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Go on?

Speaker 2 (07:19):
Right, we'll talk about that, some cuts to NASA, which
again who needs it? Well, we'll talk about the cheating scandal,
the latest on the on the cold Play kiss cam
cheating scandal, and how it relates to privacy law. We
will take a very limited study and just go running

(07:42):
off with it with the conclusions, and then doctor Grant
can tell us if we're making scientifically sound arguments arguments
based on it. I might even talk about the box
office Happy Gilmore two plenty more but first, doctor Grant,
we do like to ask our guest, what is something
from your search history?

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Oh yeah, okay, So I took one second to prepare
for this question, but I went into my Google search
history on my phone rather than my computer, because I've
been on my phone a lot more lately, and.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
I thought this was interesting.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
So the like, the thing that I've googled more times
than anything else in the past two months has been
local time California. And that's because I have spent the
last three months almost entirely away, almost entirely away from home,
traveling across four continent and like Australia, Europe, different parts

(08:43):
of North America. Oh no, three continents, three continents, and
you know, I have a little family at home, and
so usually when I do all this traveling, you know,
for wildlife work, I like don't call home a lot,
like I really kind of we have this understanding, like
I am like I don't have celsic like I will
see you and sink in when I'm back. Mommies, ye

(09:05):
have mommy's in the wilderness. It's like my kids since
the day both of them are born. So it's been
more than a decade. This has been the norm and
it works for our family. But because this was particularly
a long time away, I was finding myself like constantly
like checking, like what time is it at home? And
like can I send a text to my husband because
he'll wake up? Like if I text him, he will

(09:25):
wake up and look at it, or if I call him,
he will wake up. Right, So, like I was constantly
being like, what you know, what what time is it
at home? Local time California by Google search history?

Speaker 2 (09:36):
And you care if you wake him up or not?
That's that's kind I do.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
Yes, he's working on being a good sleeper.

Speaker 4 (09:44):
Hell, like my very kind of you when you're away,
because like do you always bring your kids back a gift?
But when you're doing like when you're in the wilderness,
do you're like this is a really cool rass beardropping?

Speaker 1 (10:00):
You know, Like people ask me this question a lot.
They kind of ask like, oh, do you do you
bring your kids? You know when you travel because you
go to some cool places? Do you do you bring
them a souvenir? I don't bring them to where I go,
and I don't bring them back anything.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
Right from the wilder?

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Okay, that's right, because you like I don't like I've
kind of normalized, like I have returned. So part of
it is like I travel too much to always bring
something back, but also like we're trying not to have
a lot of stuff, like because they will appreciate it,
but it could end up just being stuff. And I'm
very fortunate, you guys. I'm so fortunate. I travel mostly

(10:38):
right now for my television show, which is called Mutual
of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, and like they get to watch
the show, you know, so it's also like I travel,
you know, like, oh, Mommy's in Australia and they miss me.
But it's like, you know, a couple of months later,
they are watching the show where Mommy was in Australia,

(10:58):
and so it's like it really kind next them to
like why I was gone, what I was doing. And
I'm very fortunate because not a lot of parents who
travel get that.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah right, I don't get to play this podcast for
my kids. Unfortunately, afterwards, before I go, you want to
know what I.

Speaker 5 (11:13):
Was up to.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
You want to learn some new words?

Speaker 4 (11:17):
Yeah that sounds great.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
What is something you think is underrated?

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Well, okay, I just remember the last time I was
on this podcast. I thought I had a really good
answer to what was underrated, and I like, I stand
by it. I'm going to use it again. So I
really think it was My answer was sweet potatoes because
I was like, when I eat a sweet potato, which
is frequently, I'm always like, why aren't people talking about this?

Speaker 3 (11:45):
Like this is so delicious.

Speaker 1 (11:49):
It's like compliments any meal. It's super nutritious. It's really
filling you fill it with better, Like, why aren't people
talking about sweet potatoes?

Speaker 4 (11:58):
How are you enjoying it? You just I'm picturing you
just like steaming, like you got one cooked and you're just.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
Biting you bake it. So here's the thing you have
to kind of for me. I think you overcook them.
So some people are like, oh, bake it at you know,
three p fifty for an hour. I'm like, bake it
at three eighty five for an hour and a half. Oh,
I am telling you the potato.

Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
And then I my husband and I like we shop
at Trader Joe's a lot. Shout out Trader Joe's, and they,
at least in California, they have Japanese sweet potatoes, which
you know are white on the inside. I think they're
actually a little bit sweeter. Yeah, they have like a
reddish skin and white on the inside, and so like,
overcook those a little bit, you'll be in heaven. So
I really think sweet potatoes are underrated.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
They get that like syrupy.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, they cause like you know, the seventy cents and
they Yeah, they're just great.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
They're just great.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Everyone eat them.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
I appreciate it, by the way, the fact that you
reuse that because you're an ecologically minded person who's committed
to recycling.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
Yes, that makes sense. Reuse, recycled, reduce.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
Your answers, to reduce the hot takes on the internet,
there's plenty.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
What is something that you think is overrated?

Speaker 1 (13:11):
I mean, I'm obviously like on a food kick here,
but you know, I personally think getting a macha latte
at a coffee shop or a macha shop is a
little overrated. Not to say I won't do it, because
I will do it, But listen, the macha you can

(13:32):
make at home if you get yourself a good macha,
like a good quality macha powder. I just I prefer
the macha that I make at home. It could be
a hot latte, a cold latte, whatever, Like you don't
have the cute little like instagrammable experience as much, sure,
but for me, the quality that I make is more
consistent and better. And I think that like this whole

(13:52):
like social media aesthetic of like having your cute little
macha is beautiful.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
It looks beautiful.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
But I just want to say, just to anyone out
here who's like getting a macha, a six, seven, eight
dollar macha every day, like, just try making it yourself,
because I bet you'll be really impressed.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Nothing looks better than a macha. Macha is the best
looking drink. I feel like it looks so good. Like
I feel like that might be why some people are
ordering them out, because they're performatively drinking something that is
the coolest color.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
I mean, it's so cool.

Speaker 2 (14:26):
I had.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
I have to say I had my first macha.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
I was fortunate to travel to Japan in two thousand
and nine and so like I, you know, I hadn't
had one before, and I just before tea ceremony, you know,
and like had a macha. Was like this is cool.
And then they had this macha ice cream and all
the stuff that they have here in the States today.
I got to experience in Japan, and I remember being like, man,
will I ever have this again? And I can only

(14:52):
hope and then boom here we are.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
Yeah, a few listeners on Instagram DMV like posts from
like this company that like makes macha and like these
two white women who were like when we went to Japan,
we realized it's like, oh, I'm oh yeah, y'all, y'all
discovered some now okay, okay, we left discovered in Japan
my tip as a Japanese person by buy from a
Japanese grower provider, and you know, just you can cut

(15:17):
out the middleman who is doing the I discovered maya
company on Instagram there that quality is going to be
straight up ass because it's going to be sold to
people who are just again like like the look of
like I'm drinking green drink. But yeah, it's right, Like I.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Mean, you can even go like I did this, Like
I went on Amazon and looked for like the reviews
of like the highest quality macha and then went to
that brand's.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
Website, right, yeah, order like it's not that hard. No, no,
it's not. And typically this is the thing I say, like,
well sometimes cheaper on Amazon. I bet you you go
to the website of the thing you want to buy,
They're going to be like, hey, you want fifteen percent
off right now, like the second you click on the website,
so you know leave.

Speaker 2 (15:57):
I got some really cheap macha at a Creating grocery
store near my house. It was with Sabby. You guys
have to be careful. I'm telling you that it's nasty
out there.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
It was in a tube. I should have known, how
are you?

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Because so for my homemade macha, I needed to find
the right mixing implement because I got like the macha
set with the little like proper whisk wooden whisk. Yeah,
and I was not skilled enough with the whisk to
like it just wasn't quite as good as it is
like elsewhere. But then I got the handheld mixer, the

(16:36):
little like thing we can press the thing on and
it like spins really fast. It's like I think it's
called a milk frothing. And I totally made it like
so it was indistinguishable from the macha that you get
at the at the store. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, I have to say I have all of those things,
and admittedly, like what I do most of the time
when I'm in a hurry, which is not this is
not authentic, Okay, so I am not doing an authentic
method is I throw it in the blender so I
do like I heat up my milk because I do
like the milk also be hot.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
But it's like it's in the blender and.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
I blend it going full of and.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
I add ginger. So like that's again this is not
like like I did not experience this in Japan. This
is my African American tape on macha.

Speaker 4 (17:28):
I love it, but.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
Like I add a little bit of either like powdered ginger.
Like again, Trader Joe's has like a really good powdered
ginger or sometimes like a little frozen ginger cube, you know,
and I just I don't know. I like it in
all of my tea, not just my macha, but I
am a big tea drinker and I just like to
add ginger and everything. So I like that's why the
blender comes in handy, right, because it like blends it
all up. And but that like you know, everyone I

(17:51):
would start with a whisk.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
Well, I mean, I grabbed my face in horror in jest,
but I'm also a look, I'm black and I'm also American.
I also look for ways to do short cuts because
the process right with the whisk, I understand like as
a process as a Japanese person, it's like this is
part yeah, you're aerating the macha like with it, but
also part of me does think of like, I mean,

(18:16):
what if I'm just trying to get this shit quick.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, but I would never like if I had like
a cooking show or something, I would never be like
making mancha throw it in the like.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
That's not that.

Speaker 5 (18:29):
Dude.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
I went to a coffee shop where people had the
bamboo whisk on a fucking power drill.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Yeah, yeah, like the like the what I'm doing?

Speaker 4 (18:38):
Yeah, but I was like, yo, this is a like
it felt like the most American things, like I'm gonna
put this bamboo whisk on a power drill.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Am I going to Blacken Decker this ship up?

Speaker 1 (18:48):
Like should we even be calling it macha or should
we be calling it like.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
Green drink green tea?

Speaker 4 (18:54):
Yeah it's green tea at that yeah, green tea. Yeah,
eto cooler heih siecto cooler.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
I do a little shot of hot water and then
spoon the powder on top of the shot of hot
water and then just like mix it in my mouth.
As I'm running out. Is that the traditional? Yeah? Yeah?
And then I put the frother in and electric toothbresh
within just put on my electric toothbrush.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Just it does it all to one?

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
I will say though, my husband has gotten into recently
instinct coffee, which like he's like a coffee guy, right,
Like he like, I'm a macha drinker, it's my preference,
but like he is super into coffee. And he went
to a friend's house recently for a brunch and he
was like, their coffee is so good, Like I'm going
to ask them what it is, and it's it's from
this like specialized grocery store, but it's their instinct coffee

(19:42):
at this specialized grocery store. And so he's like, screw it,
like I'm going to do that now. And so he
also uses the blender, right, so he's like, you know,
hot water, the instant coffee. He might add a little
something good, you know. And so we're both like blending
our non usually blended drinks lately. So it's just this
whole thing is going on in my house.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Same same blender, I feel.

Speaker 3 (20:05):
Like, same blender.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Wow, Yeah, I.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
Just got to power wash that thing up. Are you
worried about the flavors.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Worried about those flavors contaminating one of the coffee really sticks?

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Yeah, to go first, definitely.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, that I'll do my money.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, blend your coffee afterwards, your fare.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, all right, let's uh, let's take a quick break.
We'll come back. We'll check in on the world of science,
which I haven't checked in on since the last time
you were here, doctor Grant. I have to assume things
are going well. Just a steady march upward, up into
the right. We'll take a quick break and we'll be
right back. And we're back, and so are the Dark Ages.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
Yep, yeah, I mean, broadly speaking, I guess we've entered
the reverse Enlightenment Enlightenment in the US sort.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Of like a skateboard trick.

Speaker 4 (21:08):
Dude, check this out, dude, reverse faki, reverse.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Enlightenable faky, reverse enlightenment.

Speaker 4 (21:14):
It's like the conservative movement is now that they're empowered,
just saying like nuh uh to well established science. And now,
you know, I feel like with Project twenty twenty five
and knowing the people who are really sort of funding
that one of the big driving forces behind defunding a
lot of scientific research is because scientists tend to point
out with factual evidence that you know, many industries or

(21:36):
practices are actually degrading our environment. So you get people like,
why can't I run a supercomputer that will poison the
air and waste fresh water? What do you mean carbon emissions?
How is my business responsible for extreme weather? I don't
get it. Get these people who keep getting their receipts
out of my face and that kind of what it's

(21:58):
it's sort of like what this whole backlash far like
this sort of capitalistic sort of like you're getting in
the way of our money making and it doesn't matter
if we're just killing the earth in the process.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
So I have a simple pitch science, we need to
just start issuing these findings the way that people who
like work for CEOs do, where you basically have to
make it seem like it was the CEO's idea. Every
time you like pitch the breakthrough to a billionaire, you'd
be like, this thing that you funded a number of

(22:30):
years ago has borne fruit. It turns out that there
is climate change, and we have this idea called the
Bezos Climate buster for UH for fixing it BCB. Because
I just feel like the the scientific breakthroughs up to
this point are they're they're just very inconvenient and not

(22:52):
in line with profitability.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
You're not so far off, Jack, because like I don't like,
I don't want to spill the beans. Right, So I
don't know who's listening to this podcast will be very vague,
but there are a couple of fairly large states in
the United States that are read and have like problematic governors. Sure,

(23:15):
and so just like think of you know some of
them are one of them in your mind. So actually,
this group of conservationists convinced a governor just a couple
of years ago, no, no, no, during the first Trump administration,
convinced the governor to protect a whole bunch of wilderness

(23:38):
that was unprotected, so like millions of acres, by suggesting
that it would give state pride, that the wildlife that
would use that those protected lands are wildlife that like
like represent the state. And if you have state pride,

(24:00):
like if you're a real person from this state, you
really care about these animals, and thus you must support like,
you know, preserving these protected areas, which means like not
developing on them, not hunting on them all this stuff
and like it was a it was a like a
reverse psychology kind of inception kind of thing. We don't

(24:22):
know if it'll work again, but it was major for
this one particularly.

Speaker 5 (24:25):
It worked.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
Wow. I mean it does make sense. We do live
in such a like politic politicians ego driven like era
right now, where it's like, oh, maybe we just make
it appeal to their sense of pride or something.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah, it was part and it was like white like
like if we lost this animal, we wouldn't be us anymore.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
So let's right you know.

Speaker 4 (24:50):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well that's at least they can somehow
connect it in that really fucked up backwards way.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
I mean, early conservationism was super racis. Yeah, like, so
maybe we just like bring it back to its roots.
You know, we're back to.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
That guy early the early conservation was like wildlife over people,
which is essentially, you know, like something that I could
see rising up again.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
Yeah yeah, who it was the guy who has the
part in California.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, yeah, we all know who we're talking about.

Speaker 4 (25:25):
John John was like the mirror of the woods, the
mirror woods.

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Yes, John here and Tody Teddy Roosevelt take out.

Speaker 4 (25:33):
Yeah, because their whole life. These these indigenous people can't
fucking appreciate it like us. They need to be quiet.
And let us just look at this blank canvas really quick.
That's what conservation is. Get out of my ways.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
So it needs to be connected to white supremacy in
some way in order for it to succeed in the
United States. So how do we make ok, how do
we make here's client the climate crisis a white supremacist idea.

Speaker 4 (25:56):
I'm just the white people will die. The white people
will die too.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
That's true. That's true. It will It will democratize socialized
death because everybody's going to and it's like we're.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
Kind of well, I hope people are. Well, how do
I say this? Because it's really tragic. We just had
those flash floods in Texas and a whole bunch of
people perished in that tragedy. And kiddos, I mean just
like it is just so sensitive and beyond awful. Doesn't

(26:29):
matter who the people were who died. It could have
been prevented. And it was also caused by climate change,
right like, because climate change is changing weather patterns and
changing you know, all kinds of things. We're seeing tragedies
like this around the world more and more, and I
think there is a way for someone that's not gonna

(26:52):
be me to talk about this in a racialized context, right, Like,
this was a natural disaster that impacted a certain demographic
of people that has yet to be like tremendously impacted
about climate change. And it's scary and it's so real.
It's so real, and no one deserves to die for

(27:12):
any reason, in my opinion, but particularly because we are
mismanaging our climate solutions. So anyway, I do not wish
more of this on the world. But if we're all
able to see things clearly, we can really see that
no one is safe, right, and that's not.

Speaker 4 (27:31):
Okay, truly truly. I mean I think of, like, you know,
I lost my house in the Eating fire, and I
just think of how that was just I just remember
the winds, like the wind warnings. They're like these are
fucking like once in a hundred year winds that are
going to blow through this like the two ten Yeah,
like the two ten corridor. And at the time I
was like whoa, Like I was watching the trees move

(27:52):
and I was like, this is kind of interesting. And
then the power went on and then hours later, like
the fires began. But when I put it all together,
I was like, oh god, these winds are acting as
a bellows for the fires, which this area just became
a furnace, and you now have the most extreme winds
just you know, like literally fanning these flames too to

(28:13):
an intensity like that we're going into like urban basins
like Altadena and things like that. So yeah, like it's
no fucking no one is safe. And even if you
think it's, like, well, it's only gonna happen to me
in this one specific way. No, Like, we live in
such a like we live in an environment where all
of these relationships feed off of each other and one
thing will lead to another eventually.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
And I mean I'm sory.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
Oh no, no, yeah, it's it's fine. It's you know,
we were just talking about having less stuff. Fine, but
I mean, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's it
is what it is. I mean, I'm constantly in a
process of like grieving my life, mourning the future that
I thought I had ahead of me, and things like that.
But at the same time, I'm learning so much about

(28:57):
how resilient I am, how resilient my neighbors are, how
resilient my family is and those things have been much
more heartening to me. And just like the support I've
gotten from friends, family, Zeitgang, the listeners like It's I've
had every reminder around me that the Earth is good,
that people are good, and that's that sort of carries
me through because even with like climate change, I do

(29:20):
think people people will begin to put the pieces together,
no matter how propagandized they are. There's something about seeing
Earth just fuck your shit up that it's hard. Like
I know some people can immediately just turn to conspiracy
theories to try and soothe themselves and cope with the
reality of it, but other times it ends up being
something that just moves you. Like anyway, all that to say, now,

(29:43):
like with all of these changing weather patterns, we are
just constantly seeing all these little pieces of like scientific
research or tools that are being used to keep people
safe just being picked apart. Like so this week, the
Navy is basically unplugging three weather satellites as we approach
p hurricane season in the Atlantic and there are literally
no other substitutes that can offer the kind of essential

(30:06):
data that these that these satellites do. And like in
reading the story, I'm like Oh my god, what yeah,
what are you saying? Like how and like the Pentagon's like, well,
there's a huge vulnerability, there's an IT security issue. These
things have been they're actually past their operational date. It's
they should have only been operating for five years. They've
been up there for ted whatever. So But then like

(30:28):
on the other part of it, like in the article lower,
you see how much how many like researchers scientists are
scrambling to try and fill the gaps right now because
they're like, well, we just lost one of our most
important tools. Now we have to immediately begin problem solving
around how to you know, alleviate the loss of all
that essential data. And it's also again like heartening to

(30:49):
just see people being like, we have to get it done.
But at the same time, this is all being this
is all man made in terms of literally being like, well,
we're just going to take this tool away because it's
part of projective and you know, the more we can
ignore climate change like from a measurable standpoint, then it
goes away. I'm still failing to really connect all of
those dots. I mean, I can see the sort of

(31:11):
wealth redistribution after a disaster that happens in disaster capitalism.
But it's like very like, wow, what do I don't
know what you think. I don't know how you think
this ends up good for everyone if we're unable to
like properly track storms and things like that.

Speaker 1 (31:25):
I agree with you, that's I think also for so
many people, maybe not folks who are as like plugged
into science stuff, but for a lot of people who
like are just like living their lives, like minding their
own business like they were likely or we were likely
unaware of how many system scientific systems have been in
place that we're just not like checking for because they

(31:46):
just exist and they help us, you know, like when
you open your weather app, it's because there's all this
science and technology that's just been operating behind the scenes,
or when you get your vaccine from your doctor or
like whatever. It is, like there's just so much that
has just exist and been put in place, and we're
only finding out the details of it as it gets dismantled.
And then that's extra alarm because you're kind of like,

(32:07):
WHOA this whole time, Like there's been problems, but I
guess there's been fewer problems because we had all this
stuff in place, So what is it going to be
like now.

Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, I remember during the DOGE cuts, So there was
like an interview in one of the major papers with
somebody being like, well, yeah, they can cut the like
funding on that because I just go to weather dot
com to get my weather updates and meteorological reports, and
it's like, where the fuck do you think they're getting
their data from.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
Yeah, it's sort of like that sort of metaphor you
talk about Jack, like wealthy people thinking like they were
born on third or what would you say, they were
born on first or whatever.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
I'm born on third thinking they hit a triple.

Speaker 4 (32:49):
Oh yeah, exactly, born like where we are ambiently just
we're reaping the benefits of scientific research that people just
think it's part of life rather than And it's like
this is centuries of science that have culminated in you
looking at your phone and being like it might rain
on Saturday. That's not just because like God's like, yeah,

(33:11):
you guys have earned this like clairvoyance to predict the weather.
It's all built off the backs of human research, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Like the Internet doesn't just give you information because the
Internet is sentient, like it is put into the Internet
so that you can access it.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I will just say, Miles, you mentioned conspiracy theories, and
I do just have to because conspiracy theories, like the
ones that are out there and known as conspiracy theories
are like, you know, the Left is hiding messages in
our kids heavy metal music by like if you play
it backwards you can hear that. So that's like what

(33:49):
gets conspiracy theories written about is just like fantasies that
like the Left is like steering things behind the scenes somehow. Meanwhile,
like the Koch brothers the past like sixty years, what
they've done is more like comprehensive and like underhanded and
successful than like any wild conspiracy theory, Like they've they've

(34:14):
seeded these like anti scientific values that will kill us
all by like doing things like getting actors to dress
up as the founding fathers and like create the tea
party and shit. Like they've just been quietly like pulling
off this massive conspiracy. But in the United States, like
when a rich, powerful entity like does something, it's not

(34:40):
considered a conspiracy theory. It's just considered like too boring
to like pay attention to.

Speaker 4 (34:45):
Yeah, and I think again, depending on your perspective, they'll
be like, well, that's their right as business people to
do things that help their business. I'm like, that's not
what they're I mean, yeah, they are helping their business.
But the knock on effects here that like we're absolutely
going to experience the degradation of the vi because of that.
Oh okay, sure. And like this next headline that showed

(35:05):
up too, that there are almost twenty states that have
Republican weather control bills moving through their state legislatures right now.
This is again, this is now Republicans being like, all right,
we need bills that will prevent the government from using
airplanes to spray chemicals and do weather control on us.

(35:26):
And you're like, I'm sorry, Like okay, So one of
these things right that Marjorie Taylor Green and Tim Burkett
have introduced called the Clear Skies Act. We talked about
it like maybe a month ago again, quote, which would
outlaw forms of geo engineering and hit alleged weather modifiers
with penalties of up to one hundred thousand dollars for
each violation and potential prison sentences of up to five years.

(35:48):
It's not a conspiracy theory. Pennsylvania State Senator Camera Bartolota
Republican who co sponsored legislation our legislation in her state, said,
all you have to do is look.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Up weather modifiers.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, I'm actually in the process of looking up them.
I'm not quite seeing what they're talking about.

Speaker 4 (36:05):
Well, it's like if you see contrails, they're like, that's it. Yeah, yeah,
but then what but what are you again? I don't
even know how they can prove anything is happening, because
every time these freaks talk about it, they're pointing to
like a sentence and a Pentagon report that they are like,
that's that's an area of interest is to study weather modification.
And they take that as the Pentagon has weather modifying

(36:27):
weapons that they use to modify the weather to attack people,
and then they're going to attack their own country with
the weather.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
I just think I think I did hear about this,
like in a different context where folks are like, you know,
environmentalists who are like, that's true, the emissions of fossil
fuels do.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Modify the weather.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Those should be stopped because it does harm people.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
So just outlaw that.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Let's like, let's pass these bills and make sure that
it's comprehensive.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Those contrails you see up there coming off of fossil
fuel power jets that are flying through the air. Huh wait,
look about that? What do you think about that? I'm
hearing a lot more people talk about this idea of like,
I'm just kind of banking that someone smart's going to
figure out the climate change thing. And I think one
of the things that scientists are looking into are like

(37:19):
weather modification, temperature modification, like spraying salt water, like ocean
water into the air to try and deflect sunlight, to
like see what that's going to look like. And I
feel like these conservative forces are acting like an immune
system already, just like preparing people to freak out over

(37:40):
any idea that would involve like trying to cool the environment,
which again I'm not saying that's necessarily the right path,
but it's just like there's no way even if somebody
comes up with a strategy that's like harmless and going
to cool the environment, they won't be able to do
it because of shit like this.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
I feel like it's mister Freeze, it's doctor Freeze from Batman.
They're like, you know what, you know, you know where
this kind of stuff you've seen snow piercer, Yeah, and like, meanwhile,
like the EPA right now, which is a huge thing
this week, they're basically revoking the scientific basis for United
States climate regulations. So this is like the in two
thousand and nine, there is a declaration that determined quote,

(38:22):
carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases endanger public health and welfare.
And basically this endangerment finding is the whole basis for
our laws to be like, yeah, we can't do that,
can't do that stuff because it's bad, because it's affecting
us negatively in a measurable way. Meanwhile, the head of
the EPA, Lee's Elden, says, like this sort of scientific

(38:45):
basis is quote the holy grail for climate change religion,
and that rescinding this declaration will usher in, like he said,
just a new age of American prosperity aka fossil fuel fuckfest.
But when you read reports now about how the fossil
fuel industry is operating, they're not drilling more than they
were under bite, and like that whole idea of like

(39:06):
the drill baby, drill prosperity sort of gospel, like that's
not actually in practice doing anything or remotely close to
providing the sort of prosperity that everyone believes it will
be on the right. So it's just very There's.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
A lot of like job opportunities, economic stimulation that exists
in electrifying America and moving away from fossil fuels. There's
like an entire green economy that is waiting to like
get started if we if we have leaders that allow
it is sustainable, it is long term. It would transform

(39:42):
the world and it would decrease debt. It would I mean,
it's just like it's the best choice. But it is
all become very political, Like having a healthy thriving planet
in at least America today has become political, and so
we're fighting with each other more than we're doing anything.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
All those jobs sound like they would redistribute money away
from fossil fuel executives and the people who currently have
all the money down to people who don't have the
money right now, which we're we just have to take
en up. We need our economists to take another look
at that. One. That sounds like socialism to me.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
I mean, I agree with that, but also we have
examples of you know, like the wealthiest man in the world,
like his company makes electric stuff, right, yeah, you know,
so it's like it's not you know, I would like
to see like money trickle down to the people, but
it's it's still going to be capitalism, even if it's green.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4 (40:41):
I mean, yeah, I mean I was every time I
read those pieces too, like about our energy generation. Like,
the part that makes me feel better is like we're
also in the era of like explosive renewable energy development too,
Like we're fully developing that, not necessarily in the United States,
but abroad a lot of countries are like, well we
fucked with science. What I mean.

Speaker 2 (41:03):
Now, that is something Miles. You talk about the brain drain.
That's something that I've heard about in a couple of articles.
But of course the Trump administration has assured me that
that's not a thing and nothing to be worried about.
But as a scientist, doctor Grant, is that's something that
you're seeing evidence of, you know, America being openly hostile
towards science and scientists. Does that have any impact potentially

(41:26):
that you could foresee?

Speaker 3 (41:27):
It definitely does.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
And I don't want to kind of exaggerate the brain
drain in America because I think it's still at a
place where it's potential there's potentially a brain drain. Like
there's a lot of countries around the world that have
a real deal of brain drain, right, Like a lot
of developing nations where like if people are able to
achieve a certain amount of education, they leave for Western countries.
And it's way more, you know, than what we've got

(41:51):
going on. But I can even say from my personal experience,
Like in February, weeks after the Trump administration took office,
like I got multiple emails from universities outside of the
United States inviting me to consider a position at their
university for science. And like the letters, I mean, I

(42:13):
don't want to put anyone on blast, but the letters
were essentially saying like, obviously there's no way you can
do conservation science under the current regime, but we will
support you. We will be innovative. You don't have to fundraise,
you know, your family is welcome. You could have students.
I mean, like your dreams could come true. Come on over.
It was explicit that not only did they want me

(42:36):
and people like me, but they knew that me and
people like me needed to continue our important work for
the world, and the rest of the world is ready
for that. I mean I've met like here and there,
I've been recruited for jobs. So this was like like
super direct and kind of speaks to a potential brain drain, right, Like,

(42:57):
I mean, we've read about other scholars from top universities
who have taken positions and other international universities just because
they will not accept what their universe, how their university
is adapting, you know, to the Trump administration, or they're
afraid that they won't last there because of resources.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
Right. Yeah. Every time I read about that, it's like
it feels like sports were like a team here is
It's like, hey, their star players are unsettled. Maybe yeah, yeah,
and then suddenly they're like, oh you knew about me.
They're like, oh yes, yes, yes, it's been very interested
in your work for a very long time. In terms
of like because I hear brain drain and I sort

(43:39):
of get all the smart people leave, What can you
help me someone who is dumb really kind of wrap
my head around like what those like what the domino
effects are? Like I get that, Yeah, all of this
research now is happening elsewhere, so then maybe we're not
the first to it, and maybe that has some kind
of financial thing. But also like existential. What does that

(44:00):
mean for like our quality of life when all of
our top minds just head for the exits.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
Well, I mean, I will say, like examples from other
countries that they that are not the United States, it
means that, you know, kind of economic development within that
country really stalls, right, So like the innovation and yeah,
the innovation that is that has the potential that country

(44:25):
in stalls. But also even the educators, right because if
people who experience extreme education leave for a different country,
then the educators themselves are also like kind of subpar
or you know, and so then the people educating the kids.
Like it's just like this constant cycle that a lot
of countries can stay in. I can't say for the

(44:47):
United States because the United States has been number one
and a lot of different things for you know, a century.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
And so driven by breakthroughs from people who weren't born
in the United States thank.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
You hello, Yeah, And so it's it's difficult to say
what it would be. I will offer something a bit
hopeful when it comes to climate science, environmental science, or
wildlife conservation work. I think that if the work is
being done somewhere, that that moves the planet forward. Because

(45:18):
a lot of issues are not about America, like America's
part of North America, a continent, Like the lines are invisible,
they're made up, Like the political boundaries aren't real, and
so like, if the work is being done somewhere, it
impacts the planet in.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
This solar system.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Like it's like the extent the scale of the issues
is large, but the scale of the like American political
systems influence on this is much smaller. So I often
find myself being like, you know what, Like sure I
have you know, dear friends, and I went to grad
school with who I had just spent time with, who
are Like I was working at the White House just

(45:59):
moments ago my eyes, and now I'm being recruited to
work in France on these exact same issues that impact
the planet, you know. So I'm encouraged that there are
jobs waiting for people somewhere.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
Right, because it's not like science is done.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Yeah, not everyone has the ability to like just make
that huge change and work elsewhere, right, So like not
everyone can take those opportunities, but I'm encouraged that the
work can still go on.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
Yeah, all right, we should take a quick break. We'll
come back, we'll talk about something stupid. Instead, we'll be right.

Speaker 5 (46:36):
Back and we're back. We're back.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
Let's talk about Andy Byron, the CEO from the coldplate
kiss cam incident. So he stepped down Astronomer company. Is
that what it's called? Yestronomer quickly tried to say face
by hiring Chris Martin's ex Gwyneth Paltrow to be their
temporary spokesperson. Just had a video. I've been hired on

(47:12):
a very temporary basis to speak on behalf of the
three hundred plus employees at Astronomer. I don't know like
what they were trying to like communicate, basically, like stop
asking him questions.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
Hold on, we got to see this.

Speaker 6 (47:27):
Thank you for your interest in Astronomer. Hi, I'm Gwyneth Paltrow.
I'm oh, no, a very temporary basis to speak on
behalf of the three hundred plus employees it Astronomer. Astronomer
has gotten a lot of questions over the last few days,
and I wanted me to answer the most common ones.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Oh my god, what's that?

Speaker 4 (47:48):
Actual?

Speaker 6 (47:48):
The best place to run a patchy airflow?

Speaker 4 (47:51):
Okay, all right, all right, no, sorry, Gwyneth. I mean
part of me is like I get like sort of
the Internet culture of it all, but this also just
seems like so transparently, like like a dumb like, let's
try and let's try and make this like a fun
thing really quick and pey Gwyneth Paltrow, who knows how
much money for that?

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Hyeah right, exactly wow, because she's famously consciously uncoupled from
the villain in this story. If you ask me, Coldplay
lead singer Chris Martin, who fucked up by calling out
that those people were acting weird. He should have just
kept it moving and been like, oh, never mind, nothing
to see there. Let's find another couple who might be

(48:34):
in love with one another, who are actually holding each other.
There are widespread rumors that Byron is planning on suing
cold Play for emotional distress and invasion of privacy. Quote.
He didn't consent to being filmed or publicly humiliated. He
thinks Coldplay made him a.

Speaker 4 (48:49):
Meme Andy and he come he did. Come on, We
got to know things like reasonable expectations of privacy. These
are legal concepts. Do you have a reasonable expectation of
privacy when you're in the middle of a fucking stadium
show in public? No, he's like, what about my legal

(49:11):
right to creep on the low that's being violated? I
have to sue, do you this is this is like
a rumor? Is it happening? Because there's so there's been
so many fake updates about this story, like did you
did you read the supposed reply from his wife?

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Was that not a real?

Speaker 3 (49:27):
No?

Speaker 4 (49:28):
It read like a yeah, it read like some shit
like you know Olivia Pope would saying scandal.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
It did read like it was scathing.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
Yes, yeah, but people were like a lot of people
like I had to go to Snopes to be like
is this real, and they're like no.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Wait, am I to jump in on this part? Oh yeah,
yeah yeah, Well I mean I was gonna say, like,
part I imagine this has happened before, like at a concert,
at a sporting event, whatever it is, like like some
could be sitting at home watching a sporting event and
see the kiss came and be like no way, Like
I imagine it's happened before. It just happened to this guy

(50:08):
who has like money and power, and he's embarrassed. I mean,
it's really freaking embarrassing, Like TikTok went crazy. That's embarrassing.
But like dealing with your emotions of being publicly humiliated
and embarrassed. Like that's different than someone like committing a

(50:30):
crime against you, right, like like there's something illegal, right,
Like it sucks, like his life is temporarily ruined, yes,
and also like that's anyway I like like there's just
something you know, Like they say, like men will do
anything except go to therapy, like men will sue coldplay,

(50:50):
except like repair the trust in their family like relationships.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
To articulate your needs to a partner or yeah, I
think the money and power of that guy and like
the head of HR for his company, like is such
an important part of the story that frequently gets left out.
Like as this is being covered, people are like, well,
you don't technically have the right, and like they're comparing it.
So they're comparing it to this story that happened to

(51:18):
a guy who like dozed off during a Yankees Red
Sox game and ESPN just like started like lingering on
him with the camera and the two like commentators just
started roasting his ass and like we're just like, Wow,
this guy must be a fun guy to bring to
the game, and like, well, I wonder what's going on

(51:38):
with it? But like it didn't take off, Like it
didn't become a meme where everyone was like, Aha, that
guy is fucking sleeping.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
What a loser.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
He brought a lawsuit and they ultimately sided with ESPN
because I feel like courts in America are just a
way to side with the people who have the more
money and power in a lot of cases.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
But also it's like, I mean, I don't know, I
do not know about the law, but I feel like
if you read the fine print when you buy your
ticket to the game, like somewhere there says like things
are going to be recorded, like so you're opting into this,
you know. And anyway, like there was remember I remember
in the oh she's like twenty twenty four or some

(52:20):
part of the campaign. I forget who is campaign, but
I think it's like maybe a Kamala Harris like event,
and like there's all this rhetoric about like childless cat ladies, right,
like she's childless and blah blah blah, and like I forget.
I think like like she was refuting that and she
was like and we're not childless cat ladies or something,

(52:41):
and they like flashed to the woman, a random woman
in the audience, like just because they're everything she says,
they're going to flash to the audience. But like it
was like I don't know, it was on my TikTok
for a while. Lad like, wait a second, are looking
at me?

Speaker 5 (52:57):
Why?

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Right?

Speaker 2 (53:00):
And even if we are childless cat Ladies back to
the woman, you know, and.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Yeah, one of those things where it's like I don't
know if you're at a public thing that's being filmed
for national television or for whatever, like like you have
to I don't know. I just can't imagine. It's not
in the fine. But that doesn't mean you can't be
mad as hell. You can be really upset about it.
You could be like furious. You can release a statement

(53:29):
saying I feel violated. I feel that like express your feelings, right,
and that's okay, but like trying to like recreate how
society does concerts. I think, I personally think just taking
it too far. Also like you'repeating on your wife and
so like, and.

Speaker 2 (53:47):
Then made it so evident in your response. I do. Yeah,
Just like I know there's like legalities involved that I'm
not like the person to answer, but just like in
the court of public opinion, making fun of somebody for like,
which is like very vulnerable and like could be a
sign of il and like they're just going to town
on his ass. Like it feels much different than like

(54:10):
a CEO, like we've talked before, Like I do connect
this to like the Luigimanngioni story, the submarine implosion, and
like all these things that are bubbled the Epstein, like
the obsession with Epstein thing, all these things that are
like bubbling up in the news where there's something that
implicates or embarrasses the wealthy and the powerful, and there's

(54:35):
just this like uproar of like attention and fascination and
obsession with it, and the media is just like, huh, anyways,
I guess they like embarrassing people. And it's like, no,
they like embarrassing CEOs.

Speaker 5 (54:48):
They're mad.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Everybody is furious at people with power because they know
what they're doing to the fucking world around us, like
they and it's just this oblivion. This is like feigned
obliviousness by the mainstream media.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
And I will say, all the examples you gave are real,
and they're all very male centered, right, Like it's like
this man did this, this man experience this, this man,
this man this man, this man, and so like, I
believe that as a woman in today's society, like my
attention is mainly elsewhere, but also as a woman in
today's society, like like women generally are like more compassionate,

(55:30):
like more community centered, like like I always try to
envision like a near future where like, you know, women
are the people in power and society. Like I'm not
saying that things might be very different, but but if
you think about like the way the media is like
about like capitalizing on the embarrassment of folks, It's like

(55:51):
it's kind of like a hyper masculine like let's hurt people,
Let's make people feel bad, Let's like stick it to them.
Let's like, oh, like CEOs are probably mablematic like instead
of solving the problems, let's hurt them, you know. And
so like like I'm all about like the problems, like
I want to like deconstruct all of these systems right

(56:13):
and rebuild them. But I also like hate to see
people feeling sad or bad or hurt or embarrassed. And
I think that there's so many ways that we could
we as a society, could go about these things in
another way. And I also believe that people love to
see love and happiness in the media, right like when
like suddenly there's some story that is like lovely, you know,

(56:36):
or like that's why people go to like cute animals and.

Speaker 3 (56:38):
Stuff like that, like like it's just better.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
And so I wish that that being good to each
other like would rise to the top a little more
than being nasty to each.

Speaker 4 (56:49):
Other's No, I think, like to that point about talking
about like what the issues are, it's because we have
such most Americans aren't able to like really articulate any
level of class conscientess. So we get stuck at.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
The ooh, the CEO because.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
We're not talking enough about how we are exploited for
our labor by the hyper wealthy, and we are still
divided along these like the political lines and things and
completely missing the forest for the trees in which it's
like it's class consciousness, that's community. We all need to
be looking upward, you.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Know, not to make it about me and my work,
but exactly what you're saying shows up in wildlife conservation
in terms of the people or the communities that are
like against it. And let's use the United States as
an example. I often if I'm traveling like I have
spent fifteen years studying bears in rural North America, and

(57:44):
if I'm traveling to places where like, oh, there's bears,
or potentially this could be good bear habitat, and there
are folks, let's say, cattle ranchers, you know, in rural
parts of the West who live there, who are against
like protecting habitat or or just changing things to make
it better for wild animals. It almost always comes down

(58:07):
to class issues, to the fact that they are paycheck
to paycheck, to the fact that their kids don't want
to take over the family business of running cattle and
instead want to go to a city or go to
college and like do something else. Like it's the fact
that like America used to support farmers in a different
way than they do now. It's the fact that their

(58:28):
land is so degraded they don't know if they can
have another harvest. Like it's so much easier to get
angry at a grizzly bear or a wool or a
mountain lion than it is an economy, you know, or
a system that is failing you. And so you know,
I find that, like, you know, I've worked all over
the world and where there are the biggest wildlife conservation

(58:49):
issues is also where there's poverty, and it doesn't matter
if it's like rural white Americans or parts of you know,
East Africa where I've been, but that matters, and like
places where there's very well resourced communities, Like it's really
easy to talk about like saving animals, right, It's very
easy to be like, hey, like if we do this,

(59:10):
it'll like help the ecosystem and save these endangered species.
And people are like, right on, I'm in you know,
and so anyway, I agree with you that they like
we are not even as scientists, We are not trained
to discuss the like big picture issues right that are
impacting these small decisions about like how to help a

(59:31):
population off beirs right, right.

Speaker 4 (59:33):
Exactly, because yeah, like the big macro argument about it
is when like we're still I mean at least the media,
the mainstream media that most people consume every day, is
not equipped to actually inform people about so yeah, like
to the point, we'll get very stuck on these like
microscopic sort of controversies that feel like winds for like
working people because then like, well, at least this rich

(59:54):
asshole's suffering because I'm suffering, And that's like, these are
the wins we carve out because the real ones. We
don't have enough leaders that are able to articulate what
that fight is and where our attention should be. So again,
it's like, I'm sure this is like the kind of
shit the Koch brothers love. They're like, yeah, bro, more
of this man, the more they're like being like this
fucking guy. And rather than get people getting together, it's like,

(01:00:17):
should working people like be against the hyper wealthy and
use our leverage as the workers to like withhold our
labor to sort of maybe get some concessions from this
society that demands so much from us, but we get
so little in return. I don't know, pH fuck it.
This guy's at the Colplait concert.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Cheat look at him, look at how stupid his facebooks.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
And I think that's an easier, I think process for
people to engage in, because it's engaging because it's immediate.
The feeling is immediate, The shot in Freud is immediate.
To think of like dismantling the systems, like oppressive systems
like capitalism is very abstract and I think requires a
lot more, a lot more education and sort of like experience,

(01:00:57):
or not necessarily experience, but just to understand like, oh,
this is a completely different kind of process and fight
that we're going up against rather than like can we
get hajas at the rich people?

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Yeah, because lived in this system for so long at all,
I feel like to a lot of people, it just
feels unrealistic that there would we don't even have the
imagination to have the idea of like what it would
look like to even like push back against that capitalist system.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Yeah, so what both of you are saying, we're tired.
We like we want a laugh or we want something
that like we can just joke around about we as
a society. And then also we were Yeah, we're born
into Every single person on this planet Earth was born
into like this system and has zero examples of, you know,

(01:01:44):
like how to transform it. You know, there has been
some societal transformation that's happened in the last century which
has been like incredible, you know, but like forward thinking,
I mean, we're in a mess, and we're like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
A lot of people are just doing their best. A
lot of people are just doing their best.

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
And and I think because like we're so consumed with
just having to toil to survive a lot of those
bigger picture issues, like it's we just don't have the
bandwidth to really consider, and I think that's we always
talk about it. That's what the lockdowns did for a
lot of people, where like yeah, for a second, the
machine got turned off and people were like, wait, what

(01:02:23):
the fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
I think it's either that or we need a zombie apocalypse.
Those are the two only options we.

Speaker 3 (01:02:29):
Have for I don't want that. I don't want a
zombie apocalypse.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Like every so often, I like, see, I don't really
watch a lot of those movies, but if I do,
I don't know. Like I watched Sinners obviously, and like
you know, most of the time, I was distracted by
how incredible the movie was. But like every so often,
I was like, what would I do? You know, Like
if there was that, I'm like, I wouldn't cover myself

(01:02:56):
with garlic and lock myself away, Like I don't want
no problems.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
I do not. I don't know what I would.

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
I would like like hitch a ride in a car
and go far away. I don't want a zombie apocalypse.
I am like not equipped for that. I don't I
don't want to fight.

Speaker 2 (01:03:11):
I do think a zombie apocalypse is our answer to
like trying to get a walkable city. That's what That's
why people fantasize about zombie apocalypses. They're like, what if
like we just like had could like walk everywhere and
just like but in big groups, but in big groups
like create community.

Speaker 1 (01:03:28):
Interests.

Speaker 4 (01:03:29):
Zombie horde as the news nature like there's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Always that scene where there's like a deer in the
house or something like that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:35):
People are like, god, that would be so tight.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Well, doctor ray Wyn Grant, such a pleasure having you
as always on the daily Zeiitgeist. Where can people find you,
follow you, watch you all that good stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
I'm so happy to say, well, first, thank you for
having me, because it's really awesome to chit chat with
you guys and be very opinionated with you. I appreciate that.
And there's I'm very fortunate to say there's a lot
of places where you can find me so I host.
You know, season four of my all time favorite podcast

(01:04:10):
is out. It's called Going Wild to Doctor ray Win Grant.
You can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts.
It's hit podcasts with crazy stories that will blow your
mind from people who work with wild animals, including myself.
You can also find me every Saturday morning on NBC
on the television show a co host which is called
Mutual Omaha's Wild Kingdom Protecting the Wild. So if you

(01:04:33):
want to see me like swimming with sharks or like
you know, releasing bald eagles or playing with spider monkeys
and rainforests, that is.

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
A place to go.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
You can also find me on social media at ray
Win Grant across all platforms. And I have a book.
I have a wonderful book that I'm really proud of.
It's called wild Life by Me ray Win Grant, and
the hardcover has been out since last year and the
paperback comes out next month. So lots of ways to
buy me and learn about my work.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Go check it all out.

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
Was Swimming with Sharks school?

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
So cool? So cool? I mean so one of the
goals we had for this episode of Wild Kingdom was
to really show people that like sharks are afraid of people,
like great white sharks on down like they like, you know,
shark attacks are rare and there's usually a reason behind them,
but sharks just exist. There's gazillions of them mountain the ocean,

(01:05:32):
and they are afraid of people. Who did this also
with our wolf episode, We're like wolves are afraid of people,
We'll prove it by being with them. And so swimming
with sharks, I mean, we obviously didn't have bait, you know,
with us, there was nothing to eat, and so we
were in the middle of the Caribbean Ocean off of

(01:05:52):
the Bahamas I guess the Atlantic Ocean off of the Bahamas,
and found a spot where they were doing some data
collection on all kinds of sharks and we were in
the open ocean, deep.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Water with sharks.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
It was it was a little scary, but it was
also super super cool, amazing. Sharks don't eat every day also,
so it's like, anyway, I have like all these shark facts,
but like if they're full, they're just mining their own business,
swimming around like they just they're not like these like attackers,
you know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
I know. Yeah, every I feel like every year during
the Shark Week, we always do our usual. Shame on you,
Steven Stielberg.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
Yeah, have you seen.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
The Shark Week stuff they put out this year? Dancing
with the Sharks, Dancing with Sharks.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
No, it So do not consume a lot of wildlife
content in my free time.

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
This is not even wildlife. That that's that's a that
is so that's euphemistic to even call this wildlife. This
is this is like nonsense.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Oh it is wild.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
Yeah, it is a wild it's a wildlife we're living
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
Man. Is there a work of media that you've been
enjoying beyond your own? Of course?

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Yeah, I think this counts Beyonce.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
Mm hmmm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
I think enough said like, she obviously sings, but she
is more than that. Like her and her tour and
her brand is like extremely visual and provocative in the visuals.
And I was able to see her on tour a
couple of times this year and h.

Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
And saw multiple Cowboys. Wait you saw multiple Cowboy Carter shops?

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
I did?

Speaker 4 (01:07:31):
Okay, doctor Ray.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Okay, listen. My first concert ever in my whole life
was Destiny's Child when I was fifteen. Wow, so like
and they were like fifteen, I don't know the same age,
and so yeah, I don't miss a show. But anyway,
that's what comes to mind first, is I'm like, all
about Beyonce.

Speaker 4 (01:07:52):
Did you think I saw the Cowboy Carter tour and
I saw Jack when I came back, I said Jack
smoking is back, because she.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Was like smoking cigarettes and rocking.

Speaker 4 (01:08:02):
But like, yeah, I was like, okay, cigarettes are back'll
Beyonce slow clapped. It was I was like nudging my watch,
cigarettes They're back. I'm telling you, Beyonce.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
Just she just see her doing no vape?

Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
No no, no, no, no, none of that. Did you
did you hear about the things but that the hard
drive got stolen at that Atlanta show with all her
music on it? She had music, Yeah, and I wonder
what that process. Yeah, I mean probably yeah, the CI whatever,
the Beyonce c i A probably was on that. And
immediately they're like, yeah, this person has probably got a
handsome check or something.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Or belongs to the intelligence community, you know, yeah, exactly.
Quote Ala Costa miles where can people find you as
their working media? You've been enjoying.

Speaker 4 (01:08:49):
Find me everywhere at miles of Gray, find me talking
about ninety day fiance on four twenty day fiance with
Sophia Alexandra a couple. You know, this one is just
really good. This is just a post on blue Sky
at Rusty five four Sky on social It's a it's
a quote from Martin L. Dart and says did you know.

(01:09:09):
Why do you know why we can fly a helicopter
on Mars but we can't keep the lights on in
Texas because scientists are in charge of Mars and Republicans
are in charge of Texas. Get it? Republicans just like understanding, right,
Like you know when you when you center that the
results can be Really it's like, we can fly a helicopter.

(01:09:29):
What about y'all? What are y'all doing? Non scientists? I
can't keep light on?

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
Lights are off.

Speaker 4 (01:09:35):
I'm making money though, I'm making money though.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
Tweet I've been enjoying ringworm on Twitter. Tweeted every crew
has the one homie who always gets whipped cream on
the tip of his nose when you go out for milkshakes.
It's just true. Find me on Twitter, check Underscore BRN
on Blue Sky, Jack o B the number one. You
can find us on Twitter and Blue Sky at Daily

(01:09:58):
zeike spread the Daily zeikeist on in Instagram. You can
go to the description of this episode wherever you're listening
to it, and underneath the show description you will find
the footnote but which is where we link off to
the information that we talked about in today's episode. We
also link off to a song that we think you
might enjoy, Miles, is there a song that you think
people might enjoy?

Speaker 4 (01:10:17):
Just more sweaty dance music. I'm just I gotta move.
It's summer. You just you want to listen to stuff
that gets your shoulders loose your body?

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Can recommend Beyonce?

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
I mean yes, obviously, now you said she's a singer.
I was only familiar with her acting work from the
Austin Power sequel or she has.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
More than that?

Speaker 4 (01:10:37):
Did you see the hip hopera Karma?

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
There was also?

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Wasn't there that like thriller that she did?

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
I mean, as far as my fandom goes, I have
not seen all of her movies.

Speaker 2 (01:10:49):
You have only seen the Austin Powers movies. Those are
the only movies I've seen that was with obsessed with?

Speaker 4 (01:10:55):
Yes. Yeah, anyway, so we're gonna got on this track
from like the sort of electronic duo Bicep, and it's
called It's from this. The titles very convoluted. It's Chroma
eight Tangs because the album is called Chroma eight and

(01:11:16):
then like they're using this naming convention like we're dealing
with like files and anyway, it's dope though it's sweaty,
it's gonna be something. It makes you kind of feel
like every time I hear it, I feel like I'm
watching like a movie with like some like futuristic dance
club where there's a bunch of like future alien gangsters
and stuff in there. But it's it's got like this.
I don't know crime equality twist that I really like.
So anyway, this is BICEP with Chromah eight tangs.

Speaker 2 (01:11:39):
All right, we will look up to that in the
footnotes for the production by Heart Radio. For more podcasts
from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's gonna
do it for us this morning. We are back this
afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we will
talk to you all then.

Speaker 4 (01:11:54):
Bye bye. The Daily Zeite Guys is executive produced by
Catherine Law.

Speaker 3 (01:11:59):
Co produced by by Wang, co produced by Victor Wright,
co written by J. M mcnapp, edited and engineered by
Justin Conner

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
H