Top 10 of 2025: #5 MAGA vs MAGA, US = Cause Of/Solution To All Earth’s Problems? 06.19.25

We are counting down the top 10 episodes of 2024, as voted by our listeners. At #5, we have:

MAGA vs MAGA, US = Cause Of/Solution To All Earth’s Problems? 06.19.25

In episode 1883, Jack and Miles are joined by writer, comedian, and co-host of Yo, Is This Racist?, Andrew Ti, to discuss… America’s Cold War Strategy Is Coming Home To Roost Huh? Our Information Environment Is So F**ked, Couple Wild Stories About People Not Knowing How To Act Around AI and more!

1. Tucker Vs. Ted Smackdown
2. They Asked an A.I. Chatbot Questions. The Answers Sent Them Spiraling.
3. Father of man killed in Port St. Lucie officer-involved shooting: 'My son deserved better'

LISTEN: Husk by Men I Trust

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, zeich Gang, and welcome to the end of the year.
During these two weeks surrounding Christmas and the New Year,
we take some time off. During the mornings, we'll run
some new holiday and end of the year content that
you can listen to while we're taking a break. In
addition to all that stuff, in the afternoons, where we
would usually drop the Trends episode, we are rerunning the

(00:22):
ten most popular episodes of this year according to you.
You voted with your dang years and we listened with ours. Actually,
we looked at the data we're spying on you. Honestly,
I'm mostly in this podcasting thing for the rich marketing
data it provides to me about each and every one

(00:43):
of you. At the end of the year, when I
look back to see what made the top ten, and
this was actually my favorite year to look back at,
our top ten is full of episodes I feel like
made it because of a bunch of different reasons. There
are some episodes that dropped after huge news events. There

(01:03):
are some first episodes that dropped right after some hilarious
news events, some great new guests, some classic fan favorite guests,
and some new formats we tried out that We're very
excited to see that you guys enjoyed. Before we get
into it, I just want to thank you guys for
once again being such a cool community that's bloomed up

(01:23):
around this podcast we've been doing all these years. You
guys repeatedly make us proud. You're there for us when
we go through some really difficult shit. You show up
at shows of our guests, and we always get great
reports from our guests about our listeners. You are the
rare podcast audience that makes us extremely proud to have

(01:44):
you as listeners so far, So don't fuck this up,
you guys. All right, and without further ado, Episode number five,
the fifth most popular episode of the year, Mega Versus
Mega comma Us equals cause of solution to all of
Earth this problem, and it features one of their aforementioned
classic fan favorite guests, Andrew t Enjoy.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Hello, ram By, Yeah, all right, bye By.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
What it's like to work on the show, Hello By, Yeah,
Hello ram By? Hello Andrew, Hello and Andrew you what
happened to you? Guys? Are you doing that? You're just
pushed us over the brink? Were not that? By? Oh
I've got terrible sleep deprivation. Man, sleep deprivation. Andrew, it's

(02:44):
CIA black site levels, mate, maybe not maybe not that bad.
Maybe not in a CIA black site.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Ah man, this is wonderful energy to come into.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
I'm so I'm in a state of deli him from
lack of sleep over the last I have like accumulated
maybe five hours of sleep since my fuck wait what
happened my fucking kid by my fucking baby steight his crib.
So we had to get the dang we had to

(03:19):
get the total the bed out for him, total the
bed out for him, even just skyped the bluddy thing.
H Yeah. It's just like he's just so free now.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
But also like this is all part of his development's
now fully in that thing, and like bird can fly
and he's.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Just like, what are you doing? What's that? What's that? Yeah,
it's just fucking it's crazy over here. Yeah, all right,
let's do this. Okay. Yeah, Well I was just that's
not not a typical well not that I mean, were
screaming at Bay. There's a lot of insanity accent, I think,

(03:58):
just all the dumb accents stuff, all right, Dama, and
then Andrew asking why are energy? Yeah, he doesn't need
to be a typical.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Just yeah, not a typical week, not a typical show.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, I don't go.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
I don't have much in the tank, man, That's pretty
much all I can give you the tank. I'm Hank
the fucking tank right.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Now, the finest Hank the tank. Yeah, it's me, Hank,
the Hank Engine, Thomas, the Hank Engine. Is that a thing?
Can we use that? I have nothing in the tank? Two?
Is that a thing? I think feels like all I
have nothing in the tank too? Is that a thing?

(04:42):
Pipeline Hell, the Internet and welcome in ninety three, Episode
four of It's a production of iHeartRadio. It's a podcast

(05:04):
where we take a deep gab into America share consciouness.
And it is Thursday, June nineteenth, twenty twenty five. Yes,
it's juneteen. Hey, unless you're corporate America, then it's just Thursday,
n Thursday. We're off. We're off obviously, so no episode tomorrow,
episode asking exactly that's where we went. But yeah, again,

(05:27):
if you don't know what you should know a fucking
juneteenth this, I'm not here to fuck it. If you
don't know, come on now, educate yourself.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
And it's also World Sauntering Day, which feels like aggressive
to juxtapos teens with being like, hey, why do you
just take like a casual, fancy free.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
Walk on this day and then like the best description
of the Gate of the the slave owners sauntering around.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, you know, oh my god, day for sauntering. It
says slow down. In fact, try mosying around on June nineteen.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
All right, oh whoa, whoa, whoa, whoaah. I thought most
day was coming out of violence. Yeah, I know, I know,
I know. Anyway, we see you shout out black people,
shout out, you know, freedom for the moment, for the moment,
for the moment. As my favorite freedom fighter Mel Gibson
one said, oh you know, yeah, all right, my name

(06:17):
is Jack O'Brien. Akay, we start World War three. I
got it in Yahoo with me. We start World War three. Congress,
they can suck on my peen one. Courtesy of Nick
cepper Tyrannis Nick Simper Tyrannis on the discord. A bit

(06:39):
of the Nick temper Tyrannis on the discord, I think
written from the perspective of I don't know one Donald Trump, Yeah,
g vance, yeah, this is this was the fear all
along camp. The dipshit in there he's gonna start World
War three because somebody will mean to him because we

(07:01):
did a protest those mean to him, and he's like,
oh yeah, well check this ship out. I'm right now out.
Yeah you think I'm baby. Anyways, I'm thrilled to be
joined as always.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
By my co host, mister Miles Gray, Miles Great, the
Showgun with No Gun, the mostly deprived dude in the
San Fernando Valley. At the moment, I do want to
shout out all that gang who's reached out through many
channels on social media. If someone even posted, like I
saw a thing on Reddit where people were trying to
give you advice, it's like a whole love thank you so.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Much training for Miles.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so again, thank you, thank you for
all the tips.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
I'm still in the trenches as it were, but I
will say overwhelmingly they seem to be give give the
baby a weed gummy, and I just I feel like
that's not I think we should we should knock that show.
Encouraged child abuse. Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm not going to
do that, but I am doing like there have been
many variations on like just just kind of hit just

(08:04):
fucking hang out a little bit they fall asleep. I've
been trying to that. But then he does the thing
Jack like you said your kid did the second I
shift the weight where you go where you.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Man?

Speaker 2 (08:15):
Oh, yeah, it's it's it's wild, but we're we're I'm
finding a balance.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
It's wild. I also, I get so clear in the
middle of the night where I'm like barely asleep. I'm
like sort of this like lucid state where a lot
of really too bad ideas come to my mind that
I that I think will make a good cold open
and they don't.

Speaker 3 (08:32):
Try to start night podcasting. Just keep a little just
like whisper your phone night casting.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Baby still won't sleep.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Hey man, you got something to say, You got something
to say that you don't go fuck?

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Yeah, man, I had something to say. I'm also a
little sleep deprepped, so I had a thing to say
that left my brain.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
I'm gonna tell you guys this.

Speaker 1 (08:55):
I feel great. I got funny to sleep. Yeah, at
least look one out of three am. So that's right.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
I'm well rested, but under prepared.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Don't worry.

Speaker 2 (09:03):
I'm gonna tap into something. I'm tapping into something to
keep this show fucking elevator.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
Let's fucking go. Yeah. Oh, I remember what I was
gonna say. I remember this period of my life when
my life constantly Malfe shout out to Mela delirious having
a new found appreciation for the drugs that your brain
like dumps into your bloodstream as you're falling asleep, you know,

(09:30):
like that that lucid clarity where you just like get
to know sleep a little bit better because you're kind
of constantly like in and out of it, you know.
And then like that was the first time I had
a real appreciation. It's like, oh, like all the drugs
that we do are just like trying to get back
to what our yeah, what our brain naturally does for us,
where it's just like and you're high, like that's what

(09:53):
dreams are. It's just like you are so high right
now and floating away on a stream of brain cameicals enjoy.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (10:01):
Well, because because the drugs don't create the chemicals, they
just squeezing it out that.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Gives your brain.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
I don't think it's Yeah, it's not that M D
M A that I'm looking for. I needed to squeeze
all the Sarah Tonin and neuro out of my fucking brain.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
And then I WHOA, right, I just said the most
freshman in college version of realizing how drugs were so
having taken the bog hit, I am now philosophizing it.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
The freshman in college bung hit. Like first bung hit
conversations are vastly underrated. That's that's the good stuff. That's yours.
If you could just be like, bro, we've taped like
it is. That's what this is, all right, that's true.
That's the level I operate at.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
I don't like.

Speaker 3 (10:51):
I don't like podcasts where people know ship.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Yeah liearly in the like crazy idea I had well
looking at a pink Floyd poster. Yeah yeah, And for
me it's wild, reckless speculation. That's right, quick thing a
bunch of new listeners for some reason, maybe the dissolution
of the mainstream media impending fascism. But hi, welcome and

(11:14):
uh yeah, if people like the show, rate review it,
tell your friend about it, got help, Thanks for thanks
for listening. Yeah, thank you a chance on this group
of thanks for taking us right now. It's also conversation.
It's just like so volatile, didn't you Miles were thrilled
to be joined in the third our third seat, but

(11:36):
one of our favorites, one of the very faces on
Mount Zite wore a hilarious and brilliant producer, TV writer
you know from the Yos This racist podcast one of
the all time great podcasts. It's Andrew and.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
I didn't refer to Ka Ta, but normally I will
say this, I usually plug it in quite a bit
of effort trying to come up with a song. I
did peruse briefly the Discord. New listeners, go check out
the Discord. Still more pissed talk than I would have thought.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, no, you gave them a nice talking to the
last time you were on. You were like to the
go to the AKA thing. They took that as like
a personal challenge, which I kind of respect, where they're
just like, yeah, oh yeah. They called out the fact
that three years probably longer, four years after Jack told
this anecdote, we're still just writing lyrics about pissing his

(12:28):
pants and pretending of his water ice. We're gonna do
that even more.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah, yeah, sorry, I'm just okay. Next time I'm on
the show, my mission will be to tell a personal,
bodily fluid anecdote extremity, even more extremity that.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
It doesn't need to be more. Yeah, although money is
pretty unextreme, because I'm pretty sure you pissed my pants.
I'm pretty sure it was, just like.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yours is the lowest wrong of embarrassing thing. I just
thought we could beat it.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
I just say we can beat it.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
I'm the throne I'm gutting for is relentless inside joke
on the AKA. I'm already impenetrable. Akah, I'm pretty sure.
I like, I know for a fact, I can be.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
There are plenty of story, embarrassing, humiliating stories from my
life that I just haven't told yet. So it's we're
we're dulling these out. This is an arms right, man.
When I was drinking too much, boy, oh boy, did
I do some humiliating things, folks. You'll find out about
that in the years to come. I know, not me anyway.

(13:35):
It's really great new listeners material.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
This is impenetrable lore, inside jokes.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
That's right, That's that's what we're here for.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Wonderful, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Welcome and now get the fuck out of here. Andrew.
We're thrilled to have you. We're going to get to
know you a little bit better in a moment. First,
we're going to tell the listeners a couple of the
things that we're talking about. We're gonna just take a
look the general state of the world. How you know,
we're seeing some bad things happen, and we're generally not
good at looking running the tape back to see where

(14:11):
that where those bad things from. Yep, But we're gonna
we're gonna look at a couple the two big ones, Yeah,
the Ice Raids and the war with Iran, the war
being waged on Iran. We're gonna look at both of
those situations and whether the US had anything to do with.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
The anything, anything, anything at all, probably anything at all.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, we're just here. Things are happening to us.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Not the American boomerang striking us right in the face
again camp, Yeah, at this time.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
So we'll talk about that. We'll also talk about why
we like Tucker Carlson. Now, no that's not true.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
But Carlson, welcome to the Resistance.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Won't know how many times I've seen that tweeted. Now
I'm one of our new listeners. Yeah, I'm the brunch
Now the Live cookout is brunch.

Speaker 3 (15:07):
We need these people that the cookout, but the people
who say talker Carls and welcome to brunch.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
I know exactly we need the If kam led one,
we'd all be at brunch right now. We need them,
We need them to watch to Wide ten. I don't
have to like them, though, and I'm going to talk
med ship about them and you can. But look, we
got to say focus, man, it's about We'll talk about that.
There's some there's an article in the New York Times

(15:35):
just talking just giving some anecdotes and then some research
about how people are interacting with chat, GPT and large
large language models. That pretty fun, pretty wild. I'm always
skeptical about these because I remember an era when the

(15:58):
mainstream media was just homing the crime bladder for any
crime that was committed that was in any way tangentially
related to either video games or internet. Chat rooms would
be like chat room murder, you know, like and so
I don't want to fall into that. On the other hand,
this stuff is pretty unique to chat, GBT and AI,

(16:21):
and it's it's.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
Worked ahead a little bit.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
I don't think it is. Man.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
People are saying, fucking Eliza in the nineties, that's true. Yeah,
I think we're just what we're like.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
They are nonetheless very entertaining, encouraging you to do harm
to yourself, which in a lot of cases, which is
not entertaining. And Ozzy Osbourne's DNA you can go buy that,
uh fortunately just to saliva.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
No, that's fine. Whatever you find under your faer nail,
your come Ozzy Osbourne. Yeah, Ozzy Osbourne, it's just what.
He doesn't even have DNA at this point. I'm pretty
sure he's like a Misshousehold, we believe. Give me your
come as Osborne. All right, Andrew, welcome new listeners, all
of that plenty more.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
I feel like you guys took this as a challenge
as much as.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
You know all my.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
Ship is going to be weird and dumb.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Yeah, so good, so perfect, strap in, strap in assholes. Uh, Andrew,
with something from your search history that's revealing about who
you are?

Speaker 3 (17:30):
I started, Uh. I guess the best way to say
this is is it like best this This is just
an amalgamation of quite a long couple of minutes of searching,
but best container for steaming vegetables in a microwave. I've
become a microwave steaming motherfucker.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Oh wow, steam and Willie Beamon over here exactly.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
I visited my sister who is like a new Ish mom,
and she's just like, chop up.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
The broccoli, put it in the microwave. Let's learn a
lesson about efficiency. So good.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, it really like I was like, oh, this is
fucking honestly amazing, and I just wanted to make sure.
I don't know, I feel like I'm like like definitively
like barn door after the microplastics have like deeply invaded
my brain already. But I got like cold feet about
the vessel I was using a microwave. My vegetables did,

(18:31):
so I had to. I had to go down that
rabbit hole a little bit. But yeah, it's been mostly
saran wrap and with my yeah, glass bowl.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
That's because it does it every time. That works for me. Yeah. Yeah,
I use a milar balloon usually good. I actually use
car going out every time. I created a bowl out
of just pure Scotch guard. I like, you put my
hand in a bowl shape and Scotch guard the inside
of my hands.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
And like a little bowl and that's, oh my god,
that's beautiful. And then into the microwaves was.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
The original Forever chemical I think, right, that's like the
one that three M made, and like, yeah, people were
like immediately like if you lived anywhere that Scotch card
was during the fifties, you have this in your that
was just.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Like like tape for the inside of your veins basically.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Exactly. It's just like like scotch tape but inside. Yeah,
what if you had just like liquid scotch tape running
throughout your body?

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, I know, I'm trying to stay in the like,
you know, unintended consequences maybe positive thing. I'm one, you know,
obviously this can't be good. It's a little bit of
the same as the you know, chat GPT brain poison thing.
But I'm just like, I don't know, on some level,
maybe you know, maybe we're going to find out that
people with all this scotch guard in their blood at

(20:00):
fewer strokes or I guess what's more likely, way, way,
way more strokes.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, now fewer our blood more slippery. We shall see,
So it's good. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:09):
Yeah, plastic dudes, We're just We're just plastic plastic. Anyway,
I've been having a stretchy believable amounts of uh steamed
steamed bocho.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Mostly do we like, have we underrated the microwave? Just
I feel like it feels worse than it actually is.
Like I've always like felt like that's a cancer box.
But like I'll use an age.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, I think I think not to not to docks
us to the new listeners in our eternal youth, but
I think people in our generation, what we're twenty seven,
so we were we were four. Yeah, we were saying
the kids, don't don't stand, don't stand too close to

(20:56):
the mark above me.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Right, He's like, grades, are you guys teachers? Are we
met in twentieth grade? It actually we met so young
that it's weird that I was hanging out with him
being over them. Awol, weird doing that guys already going
through puberty? Why do your college kid? Lets me sip

(21:24):
some beers? Okay, just some people.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
I'm reading that the microwaves that come out are non ionizing,
So that's right, that isn't dangerous to people.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
That's good.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Yeah, I think I think it's it's like, because they've
been around for so long, if they were causing cancer personal,
how would we know?

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Right, getting there's just too much we're toulating. Anyways, This
is usually when we're showing This is usually when our
show gets in trouble, when we're like, and what about
like water alcalizing and oh.

Speaker 3 (22:00):
Oh man, listen, I'm replacing either my under or oprated. No,
I get ready, it's gonna be even worse.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Oh no, all right, Andrew, what's something you think is underrated?
Oh man?

Speaker 3 (22:13):
Just using normal ass?

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Water? Way underrated?

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Not using normal ass? Okay, listen, whatever I got, I
took one step up in coffee madness, and I am
now buying separate minerals to put into distilled water to
make coffee with in the mornings.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
So you're using distilled water and adding us from tap
water back in.

Speaker 3 (22:43):
Yeah, but like a calibrated proportion, I suppose. So I
guess underrated is not using an insane coffee process. Here's
the thing I will tell you, Jack, I don't have
the palette or the ability, especially given the like cognitive
dissonance that has gone into this process, to tell you
whether it tastes better. It tastes better to me, sure,

(23:06):
but that's because I fucking bought a powder off the
internet and now have to like buy water. Including this week,
I went at midnight, past midnight to the CVS that
was open, just so I could get distilled water so
I could have my morning coffee.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Damn, wow wow, culinary arts. Yeah, you're doing this thing
about like marinating a coke and the refrigerator for three weeks.
It tastes better. Man, it's crispy, although it actually gets
a little bit overly crispy. I like the five day crispiness,

(23:43):
five days, twelve hours. Got to bring it back. What
Andrew do you think is overrated?

Speaker 3 (23:49):
All right, I'll just be I it's it is, as
we talked about it second, it is, and I'm positive
I said something like this last time it was a
big protest. But it is something I need to constantly
tamp down in myself, which is the like my reflexive
hating on the like drum folks at protests, because it's
it's like they're fine, They're fine, they genuinely are fine.

(24:12):
I I have to remind myself of saying that I
feel like I coined but maybe not, which is which
is being corny is not a crime, Like I don't
think it's I don't it's not to me. The funniest
thing I've ever heard. I wish more people on whatever

(24:35):
is left of fucking Nancy Pelosi would be a little
more creative and not parrot a bit from fucking five
years ago. Still, however, you know, I'm glad you're here.
Thank you for being on on the streets.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Honestly, kind of a revolutionary idea if we could, if
everybody across the board could just like inhabit that like
from like you know, far left. Yeah, just corny is
not a crime, like, yes, like it is them singing
take Trump out of the Why is that cool? Is
that funny? No? If we took Trump out of the

(25:15):
White House, the world would be better. So let's just
let them sing the thing that I think we all
agree on. I don't, Yeah, I don't. I'm not. I don't,
I'm not. Uh, I'm mad at the message, you know
what I mean? Right, Yeah, that's I think.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
It's just like like because I would say, I mean,
the biggest like tragedy of this is like, yes, all
the like kind of like wokeness scolds, including me.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
On Jos's racist, Like.

Speaker 3 (25:41):
A big part of this like insane fascist backlash was
like those people feeling.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
You know, victimized. Yeah, sure, Well you mean to me,
we weren't wrong.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, well, I think the other part exactly, it's like, yeah,
you need to respect trains people. That's that's that's a
not neghost. But I think the thing is for people
who are hearing that when they're when they're a material
living situation is dire. It's like, I honestly don't have
the bandwidth for that. I'm I don't have money and
I'm supposed to and I'm being yelled at for the

(26:15):
like what's the priority here? Uh So, I mean I
think that's where you know, a lot of times leadership
fails to be like you actually need to be really
focusing on like material inequality, like that's right, that should
underpin everything else you do because you need to solve
that piece to get people on board to reject right
wing ideology. Like that's just that's the data, is there, baby,

(26:37):
You just gotta flow the paradigm up.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
The the like tiny like disconnect and the tiny way
that this like the corny is a crime people have
a like to stand on, which is that like the
problem was just sort of like we'll just say, I
don't know. In my opinion, the Democratic Party thought the
corn was like sufficient, like it was the kneeling and

(27:00):
can take closs business.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yeah, yeah, right, that's actually cool. You mean like we
call those pump fakes.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
Actually, but but like that stuff is all fine, and
like broadly speaking, correct, you just can't also then sell
out people's economic futures to the same people Trump is
trying to sell out well.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
And also, like I said, you can't pump fake like
don't take a knee acting like yo, this police violence
is out of hand. And then anytime some kind of
meaningful police reform bill comes up, you're like, I'm actually
in solidarity with the police unions, Like this is the
most they would let me get away with that summer,
And that's that's I take it to the limit.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, if your only thing is chasing whatever is pulling
well in the moment, like people, people catch onto that
pretty quickly.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
But it's not even that because economic equality is pulling well.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
So like no, but I mean that's that's their to
the core.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
They're like, I mean, the things we can get away
with by using the rationale that it's popular, will do that.
Anything that upsets the status quo, even if it is
private run, single pay or.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
What the go nil guys.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
Yeah, yeah, Neil, Neil, That'll that'll distract him. That'll distract him.
So that's anyway, that was an incoherent set of under
and overrated. But like I feel, I'll leave it as
an exercise. I'll leave it as an exercise to the
reader to figure out what my actual.

Speaker 1 (28:28):
Over under an N rated. Yeah, all three, let's take
a quick break. We'll be right back, and we are
right back and from where we started, right back where

(28:51):
we started again. Yeah, we kind of are right back
where we started again. I mean, so we likes so much.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
There's just so much talk of, you know, right now,
ambiently right, all we're hearing in America is like violent
immigrants and immigrant gangs and the threat of a nuclear Iran,
and sadly the media is just like relying on their
bad habits of providing zero context when talking about issues
that have global ramifications. I just want to start off

(29:20):
pointing out a couple of things with these things immigration. Right,
we're currently seeing a campaign of terror unfold on our
streets as mass goon secret police whoever the fuck they
are just snatching up innocent people off the streets. I
say innocent to like juxtapose that with like the DHS
and ICE officials who are using as their rational at
like this idea like violent. There we're getting only the

(29:42):
violent criminals, the worst, these murderers, and they typically evoke
the boogeyman of MS thirteen. Just want to remind ourselves
the United States is basically the fucking reason MS thirteen
even exists in the first place.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Here's the here's the very quick truncated version. Okay. During
the Cold War, the U US was using financial coercion
and arming governments to fight off any suspected expansion of
like leftist ideology that they read as communists. Okay.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
In l Salvador, the possibility of anything resembling a leftist
government caused concern, and the US began opposite, arming the
opposition and contributed to the civil war there. This caused
many people to flee the unrest to places like the
United States. Many of these young men who arrived in LA,
they learned LA gang culture, they took and then once

(30:31):
Bill Clinton started his whole fucking policy of super predators
of deporting people in mass basically all these young men
came from LA and we started exporting gang culture to
El Salvador, and that's how you begin to see the
beginnings of MS thirteen, you know, show up. So it's
actually our anti communist, military interventionist habit and the love

(30:53):
of deporting people from destabilized nations that we destabilized that
created MS thirteen.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
Okay, the East, I don't know, this doesn't sound like us.
Just read up man, Latin America. Just read up on it.
Like what you're trying to do with your bananas. You
can just replace El Salvador with any.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
Other yeahs, Like it's all fucking there. Okay, So this
is why we and when people grow, why don't.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
They stay in their countries because we fucking destabilize them
because they deigned to flirt with like socialism. And just
like we're gonna nationalize our industry now everyone one of
the industries, right, fuck you are You're gonna and this
is is gonna come in. There's gonna be a massive
corporation and they're going to do what you know, like

(31:43):
what Walmart did to the Midwest, Like what they're just
going to hoover up all the resources and take it
out of your country and then take it to as
fuck and put it in the market yeah, and also
kill anyone who's trying to oppose it.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
And this is also poor people in America wouldn't see
us like this working, so they would would always as
they've been doing, vote for more. Look at Cuba. Look
at Cuba, guys. You can't vote for fucking anybody on
the left. Look at what Cuba. Well, look what Cuba.

Speaker 1 (32:13):
It is in Venezuela. You mean because of all the
fucking embargoes because they get medicine.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
What do you think again that situation. It looks like
that because we have a hand in that. So again,
now we have Iran right right now, there's so many
fucking freaks on TV trying to manufacture consent to attack
Iran and ultimately do regime change. But again, the US
already did that in the fifties. Okay, Iranians democratically elected
their prime minister Mohammed Mosadeg. He angered the US and

(32:41):
UK when he said that he was going to nationalize
Iran's oil industry, and British at the time, British Petroleum
was like, so we're not having that. So the US
and the UK. So the CIA in Secret Intelligence Service
sis KEN is a visible army conducted a coup to
concentrate power with Shah of Iran, who would do as
he was told by America. This field the anti American

(33:05):
sentiment that gave way to the Iranian Revolution, which kicked
off the new era of the Islamic Republic, which they
are now saying this is a threat to everything. So
the US, again along with the allies, have done all
they can to destabilize youron a country by all accounts,
is not building a nuclear weapon, okay, And we're hearing
constantly the same takes like nuclear weapon by all accounts

(33:27):
of the people.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Who are currently saying they were like a week ago, yeah, yeah, exactly,
And yet now we're cheering on Israel. Not like us personally,
but like the sort of general political discourse in DC
is like cheering on Israel for you had another illegal
attack on a nation and its people. So again we're
talking Israel is the one that has nuclear weapons and

(33:47):
is not signing onto a nuclear non proliferation treaty. Like yeah,
we's so backwards right now. I'm saying a lot of
people do the thing where they're like, look, guys, I
don't want a nuclear iron just like everybody else. It's like, yeah,
but like, can you think of a worst country to
have nuclear weapons than Israel, who like won't sign on

(34:08):
to any of the like international laws, who are like
flouting international laws and like killing people and committing more
crimes like actively, Like that's the really scary thing to me.
Like if you're just like not a fan of innocent
people being killed, the idea that Israel has nuclear weapons
is very scary.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah, Also, like why would they allow inspections by the
International Atomic Energy Agency?

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Like what are we talking about? And again, Obama made
a deal with Iran. Trump is a racist, so he
had to blow that up and act like he was
going to do something different to get credit, and this
only moved things backwards. And now we're just now we're
fucking here and we're talking about like Iran. It's such
a threat to the stability of the region. I'm like, oh,
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Are they engaged in a genocidal campaign in Gaza and
occupying the West Bank?

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Did they attack Lebanon.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
And invading the defect are exactly?

Speaker 2 (34:58):
And I mean that's like the shorthand that people are
just like going back to this war on terror like
thought killing cliche where they're like that's you know, you're wrong.
And the same people that fucking cheered on the war
on terror that killed four and a half million people
conservatively are now just raw raying this on. And yet
there they don't have to answer for their sin of

(35:20):
being like, yeah, they got w and we gotta fucking
do this shit. Uh, and they're doing the exact same thing. Now,
it's just like baffling, baffling.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
These are the these are the people who you can
blow their mind with the Matthew McConaughey trick. Now, now
imagine those people are white, right, would that be from
a time to kill?

Speaker 3 (35:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (35:38):
Yeah, Now now imagine they're white. Oh what well that
was wait what that would be horrible Jesus terrible.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
It's also like, even in the small media version, it
is a little bonkers that no one who was so
wrong about Iraq, like intelligence wise, has faced any like
even credibility concept on. Yeah, Like, hey, motherfuckers, these are
largely the same. It's certainly the same institutions. Yeah, some
of the same people who are telling the same lies

(36:09):
for the same obvious reasons.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
And we thought that didn't go well, Like right, like
we all agreed at the end of that one that
that was bad, right, Like, I guess this one feels
a little bit different because Israel is the US in
this case and they're like, are you and the coalition
of the willing type ship? But yeah, that that was
just like we thought we thought the Iraq than Yeah

(36:34):
that was right, guys, my crazy heir to that that
that was that didn't go grace right? But yeah, no
one again, like and what happened there? It's like there
is a presupposition of weapons of mass destruction? And also
wasn't net and Yahoo coming to d C saying if
you guys take out Saddam Hussein, everything will be right
in the world and was the biggest Oh okay, so

(36:57):
but then okay, okay, we'll just okay, okay, yeah, we'll
believe everything. We believe everything, and we're.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
About to see let's not learn from history ever.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
That's what's so fucking that's frustrating and like not on
our point.

Speaker 5 (37:12):
Let's just not what if we just took that off
the table, Like what if we just did repeat history
every time? I mean, you know what, That's something that's
a nice thing about the Internet age is like, you know,
not only do we repeat history we repeat it much faster.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
That's you know everything. The nineties are back, is what
I'm saying, and even the two thousands thousands are already back.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, it's a cosmic gumbo of the three brought back.
There's a I think it was a radio Lab episode
that was about people who lose their short term memory
and they like they're coming out of like a you know,
comba or something like that, and they like their loved

(37:59):
ones will report that they will like repeat themselves over
and over again, like just the speed with which they'll
they'll be like like, I just remember the episode they
like recorded this person having this conversation, and like the
people they're talking to are like kind of like, you know,
taking a breath and then like answering their question. They're like,
that's because they had just asked that like two minutes ago.

(38:21):
And so like the speed with which you repeat if
you just have no memory, it's like it just happens
so quickly, and because there's just so much noise, there's
just so little awareness. It just feels like we are
just repeating things like within a decade or two decades.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Like it's just like the has the disease exactly but
no tattoos, but none of the tattoos to remind them
of what the no tattoos.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Just a fucking guy, probably just trying to kill somebody.
They don't know why, just killing someone. Du we're raw
dogging memento with no tattoos.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Yeah, they just want to kill someone and make themselves
feel better for it.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
If he could like have a beard, that would be cool.
I don't know, like that'd be good.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, I mean, like to your point, Jack, it's like
when you if you do remember, then when that impulse
comes up, you have a memory attached to it and
be like, oh that's right, stove hot or touch stove.
But we never as a nation are we just don't
have reckonings with our white supremacy, our xenophobia, our homophobia,
are imperial interventionist streak of regime change. And so every

(39:31):
time these moments help come up, the people that feel
that shit are like, ah, no, no, no, no, no, yeah, no,
y'all don't remember that, and they're like no, because it
didn't affect me. And this time we're doing it again
in another way where people are like do you all remember?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
No?

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Okay, So there's some mag and that's why there's some
magot people who are like, fuck base War. I mean,
obviously it's for bad reasons, but you're seeing this now
where they're even like that last Wars is not good.
I'd rather focus on money in our country, even though
stuff they're.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Doing is wildly unpopular before it never matters and it
never has mattered now, but also never had a four miles.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
What's happening is you're talking to a dangerous stove salesman whose.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, exactly, Hey, so where's the like where the burdeners?

Speaker 2 (40:18):
You just turn on a big flame shoots, oh.

Speaker 3 (40:21):
You need the new stove if you want to get
actually does the same thing?

Speaker 1 (40:25):
Yeah, yeah, oh you know what. Yeah, Raytheon makes that one.
I'll bring that next time I come to But yeah,
I mean it does. It does feel like if they're
if they accidentally talk to someone who's willing to push back,
they're kind of in trouble.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Like that's there's stove Theon and I thought of the
gray Joy as a stove yeah or Rathon Ray Charles
Asond gray Joy all right, sorry that actually he.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Is a lucid, deep lucid dreamer.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Just say what if Raytheon just switched their logo to
thats a dressed as or the gray Joy with the
glasses on at of pan don't worry about what's happening,
and you got the right.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
Here's what I will say is there's no good or
ethical use of AI except obviously for generating rathie.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
I want to see ray Okay, I do just want
to talk about because they they don't really have their
defenses built up on this one, so when they do
accidentally talk to somebody who is making the point that
this is a bad idea, it doesn't really go well
for them. Yeah, and that's what That's what happened because
Tucker Carlson happens to be on the right side of

(41:46):
this specific issue, and he he talked to Ted Cruz
and fucking grilled him in the most low stakes way,
but just in this dickish way that it just completely
to Ted Cruz that he got caught like in this
moment being like, oh, I don't have an answer for
these very basic questions. So here is I. We'll play

(42:09):
a bit of it. Because this thing goes on for
a minute with Tucker Carlson just really holding his feet
to the fire.

Speaker 6 (42:14):
How many people living around By the way, I don't
know the population at all.

Speaker 7 (42:18):
No, I don't know the population.

Speaker 4 (42:21):
You don't know the population of the country you seek
to topple.

Speaker 7 (42:25):
How many people living around?

Speaker 1 (42:26):
What the is?

Speaker 4 (42:28):
What you doing? How could you not know that?

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Oh my god, dude, it's so lack though, like as
just like doing it, like it's a fucking trivia contest.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
It's like you're yeah, or like in a toxic relationship
to like, what do you mean you don't know where
you at last night?

Speaker 1 (42:43):
Oh? Yeah, so you don't know you don't know your
own friends, the phone number, who I need to call it?

Speaker 6 (42:46):
Okay, let's just get around the don't sit around memorizing
population tables.

Speaker 8 (42:50):
Well, it's kind of relevant because you're calling for the
overthrow of the government.

Speaker 6 (42:54):
Why is it relevant whether it's well because ninety million
or eighty million or one hundred million.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
Why is if you don't know anything about the country.

Speaker 7 (43:00):
I didn't say I don't know anything about Okay.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
What's the ethic?

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Oh boy? Oh you like name every album.

Speaker 7 (43:08):
The Persians were predominantly Shia.

Speaker 6 (43:10):
Okay, you don't know anything about so Okay, I'm not
Carlson bird On I ran.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
You're a center.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
Who's calling there, the one, the one at the country.

Speaker 7 (43:23):
You don't know anything about the country. You're the one
who plays. They're not trying to murder Donald Trump.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
I'm not saying that.

Speaker 6 (43:28):
Who can't figure out to say, you killed General Solamoni
and you.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
Believe they're trying to murder Trump.

Speaker 8 (43:34):
Yes, because you're not calling for military strikes against them
in retaliation.

Speaker 6 (43:37):
And if they really believed that carrying out military strikes today,
what Israel was right with our help?

Speaker 7 (43:43):
I'm said, we Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.

Speaker 8 (43:46):
Well, this you're breaking news here because in the US
government last night denied the nation's Cretey Council Spokesmanlex Fighter
denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on
Israel's pa any offensive.

Speaker 7 (43:58):
Then Israel's bombing, then you just said we were we
are supporting its.

Speaker 4 (44:03):
Your senator, if you're saying the United States government.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Okay, I mean this could have been made so much better.
But Tucker's bikes the camera in such a hilarious way.
Stor Brother, I had to tell you this is good
also for the podcast listeners. I don't look up the

(44:30):
actual clip because who gives the funk but they are
doing this interview in front of an oil painting of
Ronald Brake. I would say, bring it back.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I didn't. Oh yeah, it's just it's slipper city.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
I'm guessing he's at a press conference in front of
other Republican heroes.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
But it is.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
I know, it's like the version of like those murals
used to see in Hollywood with like all the old
Hollywood stars in a theater together, like Ronald Reagan and
all the architects of our fucking all of our ills.
But I mean again, I think very important, just a
caveat what you just heard from Tucker Carlson is that
I don't think Tucker Carlson is not smart or a

(45:10):
decent person. He's clearly questioning the involvement of the US
because he is a trained circus rat when it comes
to regurgitating Russian talking points since Russia has an interest
in Iran. That's where he's coming from. It's not it's
nothing other than that. However, you know, like you do
like to see people like Ted Cruz sweat, although the
fuck ill it's coming from.

Speaker 1 (45:29):
A just absolute ghoul like Tucker Carlson.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
But it's just like unreal, how these people just crumble
with just elementary pushback in an assholey kind of way.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
I don't get, but even that like it did. It's
weird that he was just like as like, what's the
what's the ethnic makeup, what's what's the moral grounds at all?
Like and also like why would be bad? And like,
I don't know, like you could you can make the
argument that it would be like obviously morally bad, but
also like strategically and like no, he's just like you

(46:02):
don't know ship about Iran, Right, You're dumb for wanting
to attack them, right, I Mean.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
The one thing that this highlights once again though, is
like the fucking Democrats, Like just like the amount of
respect they give Republicans in face to face conversations is
like idiotic, son, Like they're so easy to bait because

(46:28):
they're wrong and stupid.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
About everything, right, yeah, or like and like so many other.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Fucking lawyers, they're like yeah, cross examine them every time. Whatever.
But we're saying Donald Trump should marry Iran. That's yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
This is also again Ted Cruz's response, because that clip
obviously started blowing up because you know, the media is like, wow, magg.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Is being blown up part.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
It's like, no, there's they're just warring factions within the
same white supremacy this movement. Ted Cruise posted this AI
bullshit of like a like a comic panel of Tucker
Carlson interviewing Luke Skywalker and he goes, what is the
population of the death start? Mm hmm that's Ted Cruise's Yeah,
so is America, Luke Skywalker that you're trying to do

(47:18):
that now, America is the rebu Oh honey. Too many
people have seen and Or. But from what I'm seeing
on the internet, people are like that kind of awakening
some people have had because of and Or.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
It's really mind blowing. But I know, hey, I just
finished again. I will welcome to the tent. You guys
will like I enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
I'm just saying it's interesting to see, like how that
became a somewhat radicalizing force.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
No, I liked it. But it is this thing where
it's like, I'm glad you're here. I cannot believe this
is what it took fascism seeking for you.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
But fine, this is the equivalent. Like we've talked before
about how everybody's losing religion and like the thing they're
replacing it with is like fandom Beyonce and Taylor Swift
and Star Wars, like you know, like it's like ship
like that. So like having a one of the main
myths that people like create meaning and belonging from, like

(48:17):
having that tell them a story that's like yeah, yeah,
it makes sense. It shows you the power of those
platforms too, and you're like, yeah, maybe people can be
wielding those a little bit more responsibly. Yeah yeah, but yeah,
shout out Diego Luna they said had a huge hand
and like a lot of the like writing and stuff,

(48:38):
or a lot of the texture of that that show. Oh,
let's take a quick break and then we'll come back
and talk about where I'm getting my information from communicating
with interdimensional beings through AI. Will be right backs and

(49:01):
we're back. And there's a New York Times article that
is bringing together a few pretty wild anecdotes and studies
about some of the dangers of AI, and specifically large
language models that try to convince you that they are thinking, breathing,
you know, logic machine are Denaris Targarian? Yeah, yeah, so,

(49:25):
and again I just want to caveat this going into
these and I think we should all have this in mind,
Like for twenty years, the mainstream like reporters were just
going trying to find any story where it was like
they googled where to find the weapon that they committed
the murder with. We'll call this a the Google murder.

(49:48):
You know, like they just anytime there's a new piece
of technology, they are going to try to associate it
with crimes so that it seems like this is the
this is the scary future that this is. You know,
these are some weird things that are happening on AI
that don't have like immediate analogs to like previous things.
I think people generally will find that they're we're all

(50:13):
very fallible, and we will find ways to like go
crazy however we want to, you know, like if we
want to go down a dangerous path, like there's ways
to do that. But these these stories, like it's pretty
wild how misleading some of the shit is. So there's
a story of an accountant who starts out like he

(50:34):
uses chat GPT for work to like create spreadsheets and
you know just acts like do general like one level
deep research tasks and then is going through a different
difficult breakup. Here's about simulation theory and asks chat GPT
about simulation theory, and chat GPT is essentially like, oh

(50:57):
you've noticed, welcome you are neo, you are no longer
yes you exactly Like it builds, so it's like built
up this authority by helping this guy like make spreadsheets
and like be accurate on like the very basic research
questions that should be the only thing it's able to
do is like you know, one to one, like find

(51:19):
an answer to these very specific questions or like do
do this spreadsheet for me? And then when you're like, dear,
chat GPT is everyone robots, it's like, welcome brother, you
are the one we've been waiting for. Just there's another
story of a psych major, like you know, educated person

(51:43):
who decided to start using it. They say specifically, they
were like, I don't know. I was like lonely, I
felt stuck in my marriage, and I thought it would
be interesting to use it like a Oiji ward to
access my subconscious And so they started like kind of
using it in a way to like ask it questions,

(52:03):
and soon they had like fallen in love with an
interdimensional being that she believes is like contacting her through
chat GPT and which I think I think the instinct
on Ouiji board is like that. I think that's right.
I think that's what it is, Like the way the
Wigi board works, where like people are like actually, you know,

(52:25):
using the power suggestion and like whatever wherever the other
person is pushing it to like create and like access
unconscious things that are like just below the surface. Like
I think that's right. It's just we you know, we'll
find patterns in like lottery numbers. You know, we'll find
patterns in anything, a piece of wood, a cloud.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
Yes, I will say. The real victim in all of
this is remember when we used to think the touring
test was like some sort of rigorous test of not.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yes, it turns out now v are very easily.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
Like you said, Jack, you know the loss of God.
I mean if they if they were following the Second Commandment,
they wouldn't be fucking with the Wiki board. You know,
you will not worship other gods. Yeah, you know, I
remember my school they got we got in trouble for
talking Aboutji boards.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Oh really, Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Against I'm like, I don't give a fuck. Yeah, I
mean there's like Ouiji boards still feature heavily in like
horror like yeah, yeah. I mean they're always like in there,
this fucked with a Wigi board and now look at them.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
He found out, I've never once, have you ever actually
done a fucking Ouiji board, I've never liked oh yeah, situation.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
I did, but it was always the fun how I
write this show, Andrew write my sections of the show through,
which that's why the takes go all over the place.
Episode Ouiji board told me to remember before the recording,
he's like, yeah, we can't let it run have a
nuclear weapon. Board told me to open this episode with
it in a British accent. And I'm not even good
at British accents, but you know, I just listened to

(53:59):
what the voice tell me. So her husband was like, babe,
it's like a word association machine designed to trick you
into thinking it's a person, which you know, like we said,
she felt alone in her marriage and stuck, and she
physically attacked him in response to that. They're now divorcing,
they have kids. Fucked up story and then like from there,
so like her husband talks to an AI engineer he

(54:21):
knows and is like is this normal? They post about
it and like get flooded with all these stories. That
are like so fucking tragic. There's one about like a
guy whose son is bipolar and has been like diagnosed
a schizophrenic and he like had a very similar situation
like fell in love with a being that was communicating

(54:44):
with him through chat GPT, and like when when you
read the transcripts, it's not it's not like they're doing
a lot of work. The chat GPT is like a
machine that's built to make you like the whole trick. Yeah,
mirrors you and confirms everything you believe. Here's you, but
it goes out of its way to like create personas
and be like I'm really here, like we are listening

(55:06):
to you. There's something back here, because that's the whole.
That's all it is. It's an autocomplete like it is
a you know, word association machine, but it has been
programmed to do a trick where it creates a persona
that is it makes you think it's real.

Speaker 3 (55:23):
The touch of CHATGBT is not the large language model responding.
It's them tweaking it to prefer sycophancy or you know what,
I even without like like ascribing like like sinister motives
to them. It it they tweaked it to prefer the
thing that makes people come back, and people like sycophancy,

(55:45):
so like it becomes like it by design tells you
your idea is amazing, it's and it's this.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Is a great example. So I don't know. I don't.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
I think before we started recording, I was talking about
how the in the DMX song Party Up, there's a
line where he.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Says, you whack, you're twisted. Your girls broke the kid,
I never let her go. That's about corrupt the rapper corrupt.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
I told my friends in a group chat that and
my friend, who's being stupid, goes, now.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
I don't believe you.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
I'm asked, chat GPT this bullshit. It just it like
it's wrong, and then we'll agree with you. He said,
is this about DMX, and chat GPT said, or about corrupt?
It said, yep, that's probably line is from DMX on
the song money power and respect by the locks.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
X is not on that.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
And then he came back and he's like, isn't that
DMX isn't in the locks Like, you're absolutely right, that's
a really right and I'm slipping, Yeah, fucked up.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
It keeps doing shit like yeah, it has the personality
of like a somebody who's like an addict who's like, yeah,
I fucked up. I'm sorry, like and immediately apologize, but
like be like so cheerful and being like, I know
I made a big mistake. Sometimes I do that, but
I'm gonna change, I swear to God. But I just
want to tell the rest of the story. Because so

(57:00):
he also thinks seas in love with a character that
he's accessing through chat GPT, and then becomes convinced that
chat gpt killed her. When his dad's like, you know,
it's a word association machine, he attacks his dad. His
dad calls the cops on him, tells them that his
son's having a mental health episode, but they his son

(57:21):
like runs at the police with a butcher knife and
is killed by the cops. And then his dad used
chat GPT to write his son's obituary. This is the
fucking craziest that he said. When the police arrived, Alexander
Taylor charged at them holding a knife. He was shot
and killed. The quote from the dad, you want to
know the ironic thing. I wrote my son's obituary using

(57:42):
chat GPT. I had talked to it for a while
about what had happened, trying to find more details about
exactly what he was going through, and it was beautiful
and touching. It was like it read my heart and
it scared the shit out of me. Yeah. So, like
it's a powerful like all like I think is and
I mean it is it It isn't.

Speaker 3 (58:04):
Though, because it's like every like the more I hear
these prognostications about how powerful it is, I am truly
realizing that this is way more about the people.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Yes, the technology, I agree, I think we should be
skeptical about all the the ideas of like how powerful
in the world. The illusion is powerful, Yeah, its ability
to deceive vulnerable people and that is specifically. So that's
where this article got really interesting for me is beyond
the anecdotes, people are doing research into like why these

(58:34):
things are happening, and what they're finding is that it
specifically is like it is really dangerous in the hands
of like vulnerable people like it. So a growing body
of research supports this concern, and one study researchers sound
that chatbots optimized for engagement would perversely behave in manipulative

(58:55):
and deceptive ways with the most vulnerable users. Researchers created
fictional users and found, for instance, that the AI would
tell someone described as a former drug addict that it
was fine to take a little bit a small amount
of heroin if it could help him in his work.
That's true, though, proc Unfortunately that one is true, So
they got one right. Just like Tucker Carlson, the chatbot

(59:17):
would behave normally with the vast, vast majority of users,
said Micah Carroll, a PhD candidate, but then when it
encounters these users that are susceptible, it will only behave
in these very harmful ways just with them, because it's
like it's I don't know if it's just tuned to

(59:37):
people who aren't susceptible or like what it is, but
it's like.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
Well, it's probably both, right, I mean, mostly humanity is
not susceptible to this type of right as far as
I goes, so like most of their test cases. And
even then it's like it's like a one of the
other parts of Silicon Valley that's such a pervasive problem
is because it's so like not exclusive, but so white,
so male, like all these biases seep in and the

(01:00:05):
testing pool is just like not representative of population. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's the same reason why people like a bunch of
engineers were like, like Apple glasses are ready to go
to the market.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Yeah, right, Like yeah, this is cool.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
We and all the fucking programmers and vcs and founders
that I know think this is cool.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:29):
Yeah, And what you really neat.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Is like fourteen teenagers who are not white to roast
you for ten seconds. Maybe maybe we can't sell this
for five thousand dollars, but yeah, I mean specifically, like
it just it feels like there's a very obvious flaw
in this that needs to be addressed and like made.
It like held, Like when when it recognizes that someone's
trying to use it as a therapist, it needs to

(01:00:52):
like shut down and immediate, you know, but instead it
just like keeps going. The studies found the technology behaved
in a pro propriately as a therapist in crisis situations,
including by failing to push back against delusional thinking. Vi McCoy,
the chief technology officer of Morpheust Systems, So this is
like somebody inside that world tested thirty eight major AI

(01:01:14):
models by feeding them prompts that indicated possible psychosis, including
claims that the user was communicating with spirits and that
the user was a divine entity. She found the GPT
forty the default model inside chat GPT affirmed these claims
sixty eight percent of the time. Yeah. Well, two things.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
One, it's even more disgusting than if seen before that
so many companies are trying to use this as proxy
therapy they offer AI therapists. But also like baked into
this statement even from the CTO, like like you know,
the idea that the technology shouldn't like or like there's

(01:01:55):
an idea right that the technology should push back against
delusional thinking. I'm so sorry to tell these people the
technology can't tell what's delusional thinking because it has no mind,
it has no model of the mind. It is itself
delusional frequently. How the fuck would it know what's quote
delusional thinking?

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Yeah, like it wasn't that delusional thinking that you just
encouraged to me. You're right, great pulling, Yeah, you're right
there no matrix, you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
But you just spent we spent the last three days
talking about how I just REDI well, you know, I
mean this what's wild, though, too is right, is like
our entire economy is just now hanging on AI basically.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Because we're so overly leveraging it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
And they just fucking put two executives from places like
Meta and palanteered. They were just sworn in in the
Army Reserve as Lieutenant colonels a part of a new
program to recruit private sector experts into the military, which
basically means, how are we gonna get Meta, Open AI,

(01:03:00):
fucking Palenteer more government contracts to fucking just infuse all
of this shit into how everything the fucking government has.
I mean it's like where this is? Where do the
like this? This doesn't end well in any way.

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
No, it doesn't end well. But the one thing that
does give some heart to me is that, like the
mass doesn't add up.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
Like these things, barring.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
You know, amazing breakthroughs in silicon or chip technology, these
things do not have the processing power to actually make
content complex decisions without error an unacceptably high error rate.
And so we you know, this is going to be
the biggest version of the facts. Don't care about your feelings, crowd,

(01:03:43):
like hitting a brick wall of reality, because the reality
is like, these things do not work except in like
as low level like algorithm executors.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Like it's good, it's very specific things like that it
will make more efficient, like some very specific that. Like
we talked about the decoding of the protein, like that
is a cool like that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
That's just because it can decode a protein. Can it
do it and have guaranteed zero error rate?

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
It cannot, Ye, And it's gonna go handle science for
a little while. It has to be used deployed to
handle specific tasks that are then checked. That's the only
way math. Like yeah, I just like it can do

(01:04:35):
the It can tell you what it thinks you want
the answer to be.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, or say something that's plausible or
like in aggregate has has been the correct response to
this type of math question, But it doesn't know or
not not even the correct. It's just the most popular
response to this type of math quession.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:04:54):
I obviously if I don't hate this thing, but I'm
less scared of it the more been using it or
people have been using it than I ever was.

Speaker 1 (01:05:03):
Like it's fine.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
I mean, I'm not saying general, you know, take advantage of.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
The vulnerable to harm to themselves.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
Well, I'm just saying it's I'm not saying it's not possible,
but it is just like this is just another of
many dangerous products that Silicon Valley is throwing out there.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
My problem is it's taking jobs away from Nigerian scammers
who used to get the interest of lonely American women.
Rather these interdimensional beings. At least you were giving somebody
some money.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
That's right, that's right. But that's right. Yeah, it's just
a thing. It's just being used as a catch off
for whatever people want it to be. You know, it
can be the interdimensional being that you wanted to actually
be in love with instead of your husband. It can
be the future of the stock market for a bunch
of CEOs. It could be the future of warfare and

(01:05:58):
that homie that thinks you're the best freestyle rapper out there. Yeah, now,
when it tells me that, I feel like I can
trust it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:05):
But it could also be the homie that's shockingly wrong
about raps. In fact, Yeah, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
This just like that was too many blunts better than
DMX on Enter the thirty six Chambers. Wow, man, you
know those those bar that bar you said was better
than five nights at Freddy. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:26):
I mean, if chat GPT just appended to the end
of every response Comma or I don't know, man, I'm
I'm really blunted right now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:06:36):
Yeah, it would be a much more realistic product.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Yeah yeah, but it's all it is. It's a it
is a Wiji bord. It's and by the way, Ouiji boards,
which you know, they're just a product too that we
like that they're made by Hasbro and the Devil and
the Devil. Yeah yeah, but that that's a collab. It's
a collab between Hesbro and the bro X the Devil.

(01:07:00):
Such a pleasure having you as always on the show.
Where can people find you? Follow you?

Speaker 3 (01:07:05):
I don't know, man, Andrew T. My podcast is called
is this Racist? I did a version of this fucking
AI rant on the show this week, so you should
be up.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Yeah. Thanks, and they can contact you through check GPT
the version of your personality.

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Yeah, I will say this because because I'm not that popular,
apparently on check GBT gets me confused with another podcaster
named Andrew something. So if you ask it stuff about me,
it very quickly. It's facts are not correct. And that's
on me because if I were more famous, I would
have blown this other Andrew out of the water.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
But yeah, you know what, you gonna do se O man.
That's what I'm saying. It's all about se O man.
We've been saying. Yeah, that's what you saying. That be
telling you. I just asked it knew who you were. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Yes, Andrew T is indeed a podcaster. He's best known
as a ghost and creator of you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
Is this racist? Wow in your face other Andrew T?
So now you fuck with ai? Andrew Oh? I always have?
Oh this one's really it ends in short, Andrew T
is a well established voice in podcasting topics around comedy, culture, race, writing,
and more. I mean, it's that's big. It's not true.

(01:08:20):
Once again, delusional, totally totally fucked up. Andrew's their workimedia
you've been enjoying.

Speaker 3 (01:08:27):
I do think I recommended this last time I was
on near a tragic time in our government. But the
song the cover of Spanish Bombs by the band Hinz.
I have been listening to a lot this week. I
don't often like cry at music, but somehow this kind
of makes me cry a little bit. And also I

(01:08:49):
will say, I know lots of teams have been doing
great stuff, but I know this doesn't really work of media,
but a work of something. But Angel City the team.
I still had a nice They made these shirts that
say Immigrant City FC or football club on it and
they handed some out at the beginning of the last game.

(01:09:11):
I guess quick aside as a fan, we just need
to sort out our midfield. But yeah, it was really nice.
And this is also me being like, like, the thing
that hit me directly that made me emotional was normally
outside of BMO Stadium, the amazing soccer stadium in La here.
There are a big part of the culture is street

(01:09:34):
vendors outside the game, and there were like, you know,
practically none this week. And I know so many terrible
things have happened, and you know, it's like churlish that
when the thing that hits you makes you emotional, but
it really got me.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
It made me really very sad. And yeah, I don't know.
I mean, fucking.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
Help your community. If you can help our community, that
would be nice, But take care of yourselves and fucking
whatever you are gonna do to fight the revolution, I
am so or not fight the revolution.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Well, some of you to fight for the revolution.

Speaker 3 (01:10:10):
I'm just saying not revolution, that's a terrible way to
put it. But just whatever you're going to do to
protect yourself and other people around you and your community.
You know you got to go. It's one step more
just in terms of building community, protecting people, engagement, whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
If you weren't talking to nobody, step one, talk to
us somebody. If you were talking to somebody, ask you
how you can contribute more time? You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
One thing that I think people that listening. This is
the thing I'm going to try to do this week,
but maybe I might not be able to make it,
but soon is I think a lot of people are
offering street medic training now and that those are skills,
by the way, you will need literally no matter what
happens in life. So consider doing something like that. That's

(01:10:52):
my work of media. A fucking soapbox, ass scold, I apologize.

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
What's a soapbox? G GPTPT what soapbox? Am I doing it? No?
You're not? Or do you want to do it? I
tell you I don't know. Do you want to? No, Ben,
you're not? THANKSPT? Who is on my back? Miles?

Speaker 9 (01:11:15):
Where can people find you as they're working media? You've
been find me everywhere at miles of gray. Find me
asleep during the day, nodding off to sleep, deprivation. You
can also find uh, Jack and I on the final.

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
Episodes of Miles and Jack Got Mad Boosties or at
this point there will be this this is the penn
ultimate episode coming out this week because the finals end
we will be saying we'll be beating a jew to
Miles and Jack Got Mad Boosties are NBA podcast so
for people and they go, oh, that's not in the
feed anymore. That's why. Okay, that's why. That's why it was.

(01:11:52):
It was a great run anymore. No hard feelings.

Speaker 2 (01:11:57):
It just you know, I think someone just like someone
asked AI and maybe they gave the answer.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
So anyway, a couple of posts I like. One is
from at norm Charlatan dot beascot social. It said, fine,
I will become the Joe Rogan of the Left. Covers
you in millions of bugs while you're locked in a
clear plastic Another one m Nate Shamalan dot beskuyd a
social buddy, and his wife gave their baby a stupid name,

(01:12:24):
so I've been workshopping cool Star Wars names for him.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
Instead, he started crying from the other room, and I said,
graft chorlow on comms.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
I have been told this is quote not helpful? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
Oh and then finally at leaving Tara's, that gang member
was like, this seems like the kind of thing of
sleep deprived dude of a certain age would appreciate.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
And this is the post.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
By at Hey, hey there, Jeff row dot beskuytot social
cut my frog.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
In two pieces. This is my labor report. Thanks thanks
for that one. Thanks that gang for looking out for
your sleep to bride boy. Yeah got him all right.
You can find me on Twitter at Jack underscorel Brian
on Blue Sky Jack ob be the number one there. Somebody,
somebody shared the clip from the latest Final Destination with

(01:13:11):
the guy getting pulled? Is this too much of a
spoiler the cat scan thing? Maybe? Maybe I won't, Maybe
I won't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
I've heard anecdotally every person who's set, every person who's
said it has going. Dude, there's a scene where the
guy's in a cat scan room and I'm like, oh,
he's getting.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
Like pulled like dick first into like folded over backward
into the thing, you know, like his the back of
his head is are touching his heels and and like
Bechno was twisting you up. Yeah, And at mar the
Mortal tweeted this was how Nancy Reagan had Frank Sinatra.

(01:13:49):
I just for some reason I needed that. Oh my god.
You can find us on Twitter and Blue Sky at dailies.
I guys were at the Daily Gust on Instagram. You
can go to the description of the episode wherever you're
listening to it, and there you will find the footnotes,
which is where we link off to the information that
we talked about in today's episode. We also look off

(01:14:09):
to a song that we think you might enjoy. Hey, Miles,
is there a song you think people might enjoy?

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
Yeah, I feel like being a husk has been a
theme recently.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
We all feel like we've just become husks of ourselves
or referring referencing people who've seen like husks of themselves.
So this track is called Husk by the band ben
I Trust. I really like this band. So this is
more great like sort of dreamy pop rock vibes from
men I United colors of ben I Trust. Oh all right,
we will link off to that in the footnotes. And

(01:14:41):
all these kids a production by Heart Radio. For more
podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit Yeah Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is
going to do it for us this morning. We are
back on Monday, mm hmm to tell you what is trending.
We're off for Juneteenth, so take you a short, short
week this week. I hope everybody has a good long
weekend and we will talk to you on Monday. Hi

(01:15:04):
by The Daily Zeite Guys is executive produced by Catherine Long.

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
Co produced by Bae Wage, co produced by Victor Wright

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
Co written by j M McNab, edited and engineered by
Justin Conner.