May 18, 2023 • 62 mins
In episode 1485, Jack and Miles are joined by writer, investigative journalist, and the host of Drilled, Amy Westervelt, to discuss… We Are About To Cross The Dreaded 1.5C Threshold Of Global Warming, Kirk Cameron is Fighting a War Against Vicious Librarians and more!
- We Are About To Cross The Dreaded 1.5C Threshold Of Global Warming
- Kirk Cameron is Fighting a War Against Vicious Librarians
- A Conservative Publisher Wants to Be the Answer to Liberal Children’s Books. There’s Just One Problem.
- Kirk Cameron is promoting his new children’s book by protesting against other children’s books — and CRT and drag queens and librarians
- Public libraries aren’t censoring Kirk Cameron. He just wants attention.
- Here’s what happens when Kirk Cameron, Jack Posobiec, Sean Spicer, and Libs of TikTok read to children
LISTEN: Mongkok Madness (feat. Henry Wu) by Jianbo
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to eighty seven, episode.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Four of the Warehouse.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is still the production of My Heart Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
I didn't catch any of that. I tried to do
the full Dean scream lead up and then we're watch
to take back to the White House.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
We're gonna watch it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We're gonna watch this take by the Warehouse. Yeah, Dean
just like cranked up on cocaine, had to cram it
in man, the whole the whole book.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well, this is a podcast, Miles. Did you did you
know this? Do you hear about this?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
You see? This is the podcast where we take it
deep to have into America share consciousness. Oh, take a
deep to have into American share consciousness and stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I sound more and more like a carnival.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Or a auctioneer.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Auctioneer. Thank you, We finish each other's sandwich and which Yeah,
Thursday Day, May eighteenth, twenty twenty three, which of course
means eighteenth National Cheese Soup Lay Day, National No Dirty
Dishes Day, Also International International Museum Day, National HIV Vaccine
(01:07):
Awareness Day, National Visit Your Relatives Day, Awareness Day.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, raising awareness that there is one or just the
who work together to find. Oh okay, got a sate
like in vaccine. Yes, you know, it's all about research.
It's all about research, research, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Well, my name is Jack O'Brien AKA. We're going down
down in the second playing rounds, and buddy, we're going
down sadly.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
That is courtesy of make Curi.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh yeah, on the Goody Court make Curory, who said
I don't know enough about sports to take it further,
but Jack was about his sad NBA made.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Me think of sugar. We're going down his sad NBA.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Is my favorite description talking about his sad NBA.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Oh man, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I'm over it or you know, it's one of those
breakups that we're just we've tried too many times and
just moving along. And I'm thrilled to be joined as
always by my co host mister Miles Gram.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Miles break a.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Fresh out of the de fryer. They're reaching temps that
no one's seen, earning no fresh out the d fryer around,
straight to the skin of your pre teen Shout out
(02:42):
to Rayzac on the discord, because yeah, we're talking about
those McDonald's nuggies burning that child.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah. Four four is uh I guess, definitely preteen.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
They're pre four years. You got a rhyme with no
one seen, you know when you say prech attendee, I
don't know. I'm not here to workshop, but I like it. Yeah,
I just refer to my kids as preteens. Now me too,
my baby. Have you got a kid?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Preteen?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Oh? Really three and a half months? You go, hey,
it's technically true. Why you want to know so much
about my kid?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Huh? This? Who's this guy? What are you the cops?
What are you a fucking cop? What are you asking
about my kid? What is real? Age is? Don't worries
a preteen? Move on?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Uh, miles. We're a thrilled to be joined by an
award winning writer, investigative journalist, podcaster, so you know from
her Peabody nominated work on This Land, her investigative climate
podcast Drilled. Please welcome back to the show on a
four year cycle, Amy Western.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Thank you so much for that intro.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
But before we started recording, we were talking about you
were last on May twenty second, twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Crazy Yeah, yeah, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Fact you're like the Olympics and presidential elections, just everything
the world cup drop some Westervelt on rs exactly what's that?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
What's okay? Catch us up in the last four years since?
Are good? Right things?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
What's what's happened lately? Yeah? Oh my god, well, I
I guess the big new thing is that I live
in Costa Rica.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Now you what I mean?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Huanacosta, Okay, yeah, on the Pacific coast. It's nice.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yes, I actually got married there.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
You did?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Where in hako Oh is really nice?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah because my aunt. My aunt
is Costa Rican. So I've been going there since I
was a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got it. Yeah yeah,
but she's from me, She's from the Atlantic, you know
where the black people are at.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I still haven't been to Limon yet. I really want
to go.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Oh it's dope. It's dope.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It's so amazing and the history is so interesting and like, yeah,
I just yeah, I want to go.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Okay, Yes, living there, do you feel like you are
sixty percent less stressed out? That's yeah, Like that's how
I feel every time I leave in America.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, like I work on all the same stuff. I'm
still immersed in all of the like crazy politics and
climate stuff and all of it, but it's like the
context really helps.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah. Yeah, especially in a country too that is like
trying to do right by their own and like part
patch of Earth, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Like my kids are in school here and they had,
like they had the day off a few months ago
for the day that they celebrate getting rid of their
military so they'd have money to pay for like health
care and education. What well, I love this place.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Never mind, I'm not I'm no longer on board.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
No, they'll send a doctor to you if you like
live in a remote place to be like, hey, you're
doing all right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Where they come into my house to get my guns smiles,
Come on.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
That ship, Jack.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Wow, that sounds nice. That sounds really nice. Like I
dream of leaving the US, and then I like part
of me is like yeah, but then you go somewhere
and like wherever you go, there you are, and I'd
be just distressed anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
But you can't run away from your problems Jack.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
But like I lived in Ireland for like a few
months when I was in college, and like I just
remember getting back and just like the ambient stress level
of everybody in line at the airport. Yeah, just like
you can just like sense this, yes, silent, invisible, just
like anger and energy and yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I know. Like the longer I go without going back
to the like when I when I have been here
for like you know, five or six months without going
back to the US, and I go back, it's really noticeable.
It's really like, oh my god, why is everyone such
an asshole to each other?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yes, each other. I think it's just a reflection like
when you're in a place where the government is actively
telling you, like we don't give a fuck about you
or what happens to you. Everyone's just like fuck versus.
If there's just some semblance of like you know, community
or responsibility towards each other, that's right. Just you're laid
(07:48):
back a couple of clicks, it might not be as
lit like with the consumer goods as maybe the US. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, that's the thing is you cannot like I went
to Okay, So last year I was in Guyana reporting
a story and I hung out with this guy who's
a like chef. He you know, used to live in
New York for years and years and was from Guyana.
Moved back home and he and I were talking about
the US, and he's like, do you miss it? Like
you've been gone for a while, now, do you miss
(08:15):
anything about the US? And I was like, you know,
the only thing I miss sometimes is the way that
America like makes it extremely easy to participate in capitalists
right right, Like occasionally, yes, like that convenience is missed,
but otherwise not really. I mean it's it's but yeah,
I think it's you know, everybody is is kind of
(08:35):
having put in the position of having to fight for scraps,
and it leads to this really competitive, you know, individualistic. Yeah,
that is like not healthy for any of us.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Now you got to hustle to keep your health care,
that's right. That does something to your central nervous system
as a human being.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Yeah, well yeah, yeah. The retail therapy is real.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Like there's that scene in White Noise, Like there's a
scene of White Noise where like the family just goes
to the grocery store to like feel whole again, look
at the colors and like let them wash over them.
And that is real to me, Like I I love
a trip to the grocery store and just coast go
to Maso Menos and get there you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Mega super whatever it is, get it.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
They got it. They got it.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But like you can get really good food stuff here
and I don't know whatever, and yeah, you just after
a while, even with my kids like I have my
kids are seven and ten, also preteens.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
And actual preteens. Yeah, I think my three and a
half month year old three and a half month year
old as well a half month year old. Also.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Did you hear how judgy she was when she said
actual our preteens?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Our Wow, yeah, you're six and four preteens.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
But you were saying the first month or something, they
were like, can't we just order it on Amazon? And
I have delivered tomorrow And I'm like, yeah, not a
thing here, guys. Sorry, you're used to it. But now
it's like they don't. It doesn't come up.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
How old were they when you guys moved?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
They were five and eight?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Damn all right, I still got time. I could do it.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It's quite easy to immigrate to Costrica. I just put
that out there. They make it very easy in lots
of different ways.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So yeah, and look, you know that's the fucking you
loved that ship out there. And it's funny too, like
every d I used to, like back when I was
like years ago, my friends would be like, oh, can
I go to Costa Rica? Like when you go, I
want to go with you. Every person that comes with
me ruined, They're ruined.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
After I went to Like, I had to go to
a conference last month in the US, and like I
was on. I was on a bunch of panels, one
of which was actually like a panel that I organized.
And I went to lunch beforehand, and I was like,
I want to walk back from lunch. It's a beautiful day.
And I totally put aviated my ass into being like
ten minutes late for my own panel.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And I was like, what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Man?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And I'm like, I know I wanted to walk after lunch.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Oh here's something you should learn. Yeah, you should learn
about me. I'm on Tico time.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So I'm sorry. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And when you were ten minutes late for your own panel,
your life completely fell apart, right, And.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
That was you know what charming?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Oh weird?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So that you can actually just have a good pace
of life exactly, Yeah, not.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
In my brain. My brain will be like this is it.
This is the end of my life.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, Well, fucking show up. All right, Amy, we're going
to get to know you a little bit better in
a moment. First, we're going to tell our listeners a
couple of the things we're talking about. Uh, we're going
to talk about the one point five celsius threshold of
global warming, which we're going to be crossing in the
(12:07):
next years, the coming days. It'll be like that scene
in the Social Network where they have the big numbers
up on the board and then everybody celebrates and Mark
Zuckerberg threatens to sue somebody. So we're just going to
talk about the general state of climate with Amy. We're
also going to get to a fellow, you know, David v.
(12:28):
Goliaths Amy. You know, Amy takes on the fossil fuel industry,
tells difficult truths about them that they don't want told. Well,
there's another David taken on Golias by the name of
Kirk Cameron, and he has decided to take on Big Librarian.
(12:48):
So get ready for a sordid tale. All of that
plenty more. But first, Amy, we do like to ask
our guests, what is something from your search history?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, this morning I was looking at oil stock prices,
which I feel like is very on free end of it,
but like the less expected one from last night, which
this is embarrassing. I looked at how to make fried
mac and cheese balls because I had a bunch of
leftover mac and cheese, which is both gross but also
delicious really good.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yes, well, so just breadcrumbs basically, just.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
You Okay, you roll them into balls and you freeze
them like you roll leftovers into like little balls. Freeze it.
Then you cover it in egg and breadcrumbs. Yeah, and
then pop into hair Fryernila.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
More cheese, coating that thing like a couple cheese.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I was thinking about that, like
could I wrap a piece of cheese around this before
I fried?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, use the egg as the glue that sticks the
cheese to it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And you were check in the oil stocks just to
see how you was doing. Yes, Yes, are you diversified
because I got X and I got VP y shell baby,
I got them all.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So they're all there, They're all there.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
No.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I wanted to see if there was a really big
ruling in a case I was falling against Exxon, and
I wanted to see if it was the ruling came
out against exon. I wanted to see if it impacted
their stock.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
And it did, so that's why I get. That's why
you weren't in Zurich this winter when I was looking
for you on the slopes and let's she.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Excellent, probably walking home late to this skiing. What is
something you think is overrated?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh blue sky? The new social media? Yes, go on,
just old Twitter. It's old Twitter. It's two thousand and eight,
two thousand an e ish Twitter. And I feel like
I'm not doing anything that makes me think it will
end up differently. So yeah. Also, honestly, I feel like
(15:12):
everyone should just take the opportunity to get the fuck
off of social media, Like it'll be okay, it'll be okay,
and like we're all screwing around trying to find a
cool replacement. But like maybe it's just time to, you know,
talk to people in real life, touch grass as the
youths like to say.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So, where do you find the strangers that you argue with?
Do you just kind of find this stranger?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Actually weird, weird little discovery about my corner of Costa
Rica is a whole bunch of really like random libertarians
so here in the last few years, including a lot
of like Alberta Tarsan's billionaires from Canada. So so yes,
I do come. I come across street to argue with
(16:01):
not on the street in real life, in my in
my neighborhood. Sometimes, Yes, that.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Area is interesting because like flying out of San Jose
is very different than flying out of Liu Aia. Oh yeah,
like the airport in Lividia feels like Florida. Yes, Like
when I'm there, I'm like, I'm sorry, where are It's like.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So yeah, yeah, totally. And then you know Tamarindo, which
is like the biggest kind of town outside from Liberia
here is everyone calls it Tama Gringo because it is
so it's like the whitest town.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
And yeah, yes, good sports, that's what brings me down here.
Great sports, fishing.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, so there are all these these people and it's
I had a conversation just last week with someone who
was saying they were from they were from Alberta, Tarzan Skuy,
and he was like, I like it here because it's
because of the freedom. And I was like, oh, you
know what actually enables that freedom. The normal social safety
nets are a good day.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I'm like, how are you with all the vaccine passport
stuff when Costa Rica was on top of that. Because
they were on top of.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
That, they were on top of it, and a bunch
of those people just like couldn't leave the country for
for like a while because not only was cost Rica
on top of it, but also you know, other countries
were asking for for vaccine things too, So yeah, actually
a bunch of those people were effectively housebound. And that's
the thing too. They're like, oh, but I didn't get sick,
and I'm like, yeah, because the rest of the country
(17:31):
got vaccinated. Dude, that's how it works, right, Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, See,
it's just like Twitter, but in real life.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, you can have the same arguments and they aren't
even made up people in your head while you're trying
to go to sleep in the middle of the night.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, what is uh? What something you think is underrated?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I'm so embarrassed to say this out loud. Birds. I
fucking love to watch birds go off.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Birds queen, what amazing birds here. I've heard of these things,
but I actually haven't. So you're you've got a person
who's underrating birds here. I've heard of them, but like,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
They're a little flying dinosaurs. They're little flying dinosaurs. How
dare you?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I yeah, they're reading, Uh what's the book that's about,
like the evolution of how they became so beautiful?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Oh, I don't know. Weirdly, I have, like I rarely
have an obsession with burbs and yet know nothing about them,
Like made it as much obsession with bbs. I need
a T shirt that says I heart Burbs now yes please? Anyway, Yeah,
(18:53):
I like, I really like them. I like watching them,
but I know almost nothing about them. Someone asked me, like,
I had someone visiting the other day and I was like, look,
it's my favorite yellow bird. And they're like, you mean
the blah blah blah. I'm like, I don't know what
it's called. It's like yellow.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, I don't know yellow bird yellow.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I love birds, you know, And I'm picturing that conversation
happening around big bird.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
You're like, I love yellow bird, and they're like big bird.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
You're like, I don't know the.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Tech whatever you call him.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I'm not gonna I'm not going to hit you with
the binomial nomenclature here, but I believe it's just yellow bird.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
A damn My Google search how Birds Got So Pretty
did not did not bring up the book that I
was thinking of. It's like the Birds Evolution The Evolution
of Birds by Sarah Hills. How beauty is making science
the rise of birds. I'll figure it out by the end.
(19:51):
But yeah, it's all about.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Just you know, they they started.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
It's been a steady arms race like how to be
most beautiful bird since they started evolving. And it's like, like.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
So humans won't kill them or.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
No, it's not like that's what I always assumed. It
was like that there must be some you know, survival
of the fittest, like kill or be killed thing to this,
and it's just mating and trying to be the sexiest bird.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
To other amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Ye, I love it. It's all about Yeah, it's all
about being hot and right. That's also why their songs
are so beautiful. It has nothing to do with us.
They don't give a ship yet.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I feel like you're just talking yourself into loving birds
more right now.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
No, I actually I was playing playing character of guy.
Yeah I love birds too. Yeah, it's the one like
with the bower bird that like builds that immaculate like
sex throne sexist. The bower bird like builds like goes around,
(20:59):
gets all these like shiny trinkets and different things like hey, like, hey.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Check this out.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
This is chick old plastic spoon. Like some of the dances,
some of the mating dances.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
That they do.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
It's like four dudes will do a mating dance so
that one of them can mate, and they are like elaborate.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
And that was my One of my favorite Planet Earth
segments too, was on the one all the different birds
and like how they were just all getting down and
then just watching like the disinterested female be like just
fly away, like.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I'm sorry. The Evolution of Beauty, How Darwin's forgotten theory
of mate choice shapes the animal world and us by
Richard oh prum Is.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Okay, don't even have birds in the title.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It has birds, Yeah, verbs, urbsburbsumb birds. Well, let's take
a quick break. We'll come back and talk about some news.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
My favorite Tom Hanks movie, The Burbs, thea Burbs.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And we're back, and so is this climate change story
back in the news. It's like enough, we get it,
am I right?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I remember telling you after Coachella. After Coachella, Jack I
was telling you, like, I'm only about good vibes right now, yes, vibes,
And I didn't want to think about climat change or
whatever it's called. It's so such a bummer, but yeah, man,
one and a half degree is celsius is like something
that stretched me out since I first heard of like
(22:47):
the concept. You know that the Earth is a degree
and a half celsius warmer now than it was on
the back end of the nineteenth century. It's sort of
like a key indicator of potential runaway climate change, which
would lead to increased fires and out and storms and
heat waves and everything we've seen that has been so
fucking horrific and obviously the key number behind many climate
(23:08):
summits and negotiations around emissions, and researchers are now saying
that they expect to see us pass this threshold within
the next few years, like by twenty twenty seven. They
think it's going to happen, And they say there's still time,
and that merely getting to one and a half degree
celsius doesn't mean that the parish agreement is completely futile.
It would have to be sustained, a sustained sort of
increase over twenty years for that to happen. But as
(23:30):
someone who's constantly freaked the fuck out by the chances
of again increased terrible weather events, it fills me with
an impotent rage. Phrase we've been saying quite frequently on
the show. But yeah, like Amy, as someone that's you're
very dialed in on this and all of the machinations
around climate change and climate denial, aside from the fact
(23:50):
that climate change denial is doing its job, how are
you feeling about this, this sort of this news.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It's just it's really frustrated because I feel like, well,
first of all, I think, okay, I feel like we
should say that a lot of like a lot of
the predictions around it happening in the next few years
are also related to the El Nino, right stuff, And
so scientists are like, we'll probably cross it and then
go back, which is good just to you know, give
(24:19):
people a very tiny sliver of the slight breast of
the silver lighting. But but yeah, I mean, aside from that,
every single indication is that we are hurdling towards one
point five degrees and beyond. I mean, since the Paris
Climate Agreement, I don't think anyone has actually kept their commitments,
and we're going the opposite direction on oil and gas development.
(24:43):
That's just the facts. So, I mean, I don't know.
My personal opinion is that the international climate negotiations process
has kind of been broken from the beginning. I mean
there were fossil fuel company is involved in that from
the jump, I mean, from you know, even before the
(25:06):
first they call it the Conference of the Parties cop
which are these like annual global meetings or all of
the leaders get together and they decide on an agreement.
Before that, yeah, exactly. Yeah, So before that, in nineteen
ninety two, there was the Real Earth Summit, which is
where they came up with like, you know, the UN
(25:27):
Framework for Climate Change and how were they were going
to bring everyone together to do this? And there were
oil guys all over that place. They were they helped
to craft some of the language of the UN framing
on climate change and really like with the idea of
you know, we will voluntarily do X, y Z, so
(25:48):
nobody has to regulate emissions, nobody has to make emissions
reductions mandatory, any of that. The closest that we ever
got to doing something that would have that you know,
had some impact was probably the Kyoto Protocol in the
mid nineties, which had binding emissions reductions where you had
to actually you had to actually do something. Since then,
(26:10):
everything's been voluntary. So you know, in Europe there are
countries that are being sued for not regulating their oil
and gas companies to keep them in line with the
Paris Climate Accord, which is very interesting. There was a
case last year in the Netherlands where a court ordered
(26:31):
Shell to like to reduce their missions. They were like,
you guys actually have to reduce emissions across the board
around the world from not just your own operations, but
also the use of your product by like forty percent
in the next ten years or something like that. So
there are like things happening outside of the global kind
(26:53):
of negotiations. But I don't know, I just I feel
like I kind of think it's time, you know, to
just kick the fossil fuel industry out of that whole process.
They've been there the whole time. You know, we're not
getting any closer to actually doing something, and you know,
next year's cop is going to be held by the
(27:13):
United Arab Emirates.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
And is like this is crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
The most fossil fueled of these events to have happened,
so it's getting worse now.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yes, it's covered like it's a solution, like it's a
possible solution every year, and the people who are on
the ground are like, it's it's a oil industry trade show.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
It is. It's exactly that.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah, And I always talk about too, like how outnumbered
representatives from countries are versus the fossil fuel industry. There
are more people here from the fossil fuel industry than
like countries that are at like right now seeing the
worst of climate change exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
But then you also have like at the same time
you have I don't know, we just did the story
in Guyana, which has me thinking a lot about all
of this stuff. Because they're Global South country. They had
no oil industry up until twenty nineteen. So actually the
last time I was here is when they started their
oil industry.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
And what's happening time good news.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, they're now on track to be the number one
like production zone for exonmobile in the world.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
For it to happen that quickly is really unheard of,
and you know, it's but it's really interesting to talk
to some of the politicians there because Guyana was like
a big conservation leader for a long time. They were
one of the first countries that was sort of like
paid by polluting countries to preserve their forests and stuff
like that, and they are like a big eco tourism
(28:41):
destination all of this stuff. But they're like, we have
ninety percent of our population on the coast and it
is that stretch of the coast where ninety percent of
the population lives is going to be underwater by twenty
thirty and we don't have the money to do anything
about that. So we're getting into the oil business. And
I was just like, man, that is the biggest indictment
(29:02):
of the international climates like negotiation system that I can
think of, because like we have put these countries in
the position of being dependent on oil fucking companies. Yeah
to adapt to climate change, right. Yeah, So anyway, I'm
really fun at parties and yeah, I mean I think
(29:22):
that the thing with one point five is like just
to give people again, like a tiny bit of I
don't not necessarily hope, but maybe like fuel to keep going.
It's just that like it's it every percentage of a
degree counts, and everything that we do now will have
an impact on, you know, the viability of the next generation.
(29:47):
And we're not great as humans are thinking about, you know,
being a good ancestor to future generations. But we need
to be because we get there.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I think other civilizations were good at that. Just what
this Western hyper consumerist, hyper capitalism version of humanity, which
is an aberration. It's just a cancer that's taken over
and spread. But it's totally it is bad at that.
But there have been you know, long surviving civilizations that we're.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
We're good at it, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yeah, the only concept we have of being good ants
I should be like, well I need to accumulate as
much wealth now, yes, to let that maybe behind or
maybe I die with it all in my coffin. I
don't know. I don't know. But that's like the thinking
that you think people do now is sort of like
it's it's a financial future. Yeah, and it's like if
anything else is too abstract. It's not about like, well
(30:41):
I can make decisions now, Like to your point, Amy,
that could can reverberate on some level, right, but it's
we don't think like that.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
No, No, yeah, exactly, Like a lot of a lot
of indigenous cultures had that really baked into everything, you know,
like totally how what we do now will impact this
water source for future generations and this food source and
all of that stuff. And I feel like, yeah, the
world has gotten really far away from, weirdly from the
(31:10):
sorts of behaviors and practices that are conducive to the
sustainability of human life. Like we talk about sustainability, you know,
and it's like, oh, the environment or the trees or
whatever it. Guess, like all of that is very important
and we're part of that. But I don't understand the
like the death wish thing, and I don't think that
most humans have it. I think we're talking about a
(31:31):
very specific group of people who make these decisions and
who and you know, people say things like, well, they're
you know, that's ridiculous because nobody can escape the impacts
of climate change. I don't think that's actually true. I think,
and I don't think that they think it's true. I
think that you have a bunch of people who are like,
(31:52):
I'll just get my spaceship, like freakin' Elon Musk is
on that tip now, you know. It's like Wally right,
and like bunkers in New Zealand and Costa Rica and
they'll you.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Know, they're all buying up beach or like you knows.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
So we've we've talked a little bit about like a
couple of stories in the past few months that have
made me feel somewhat optimistic are the story of how
the Netherlands like made like cut emissions across their country
by like getting rid of cars basically in a lot
of theirs.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
And it made their cities more pleasant.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yes, yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you, is like, yeah,
these are I think the thing that appeals to me
about these two stories like Paris becoming this like amazing
bikeable city, the Netherlands doing that after being like just
traffic choked like the worst versions of American cities, you know,
(32:53):
very decade within the past like fifty years. And I think, like,
I think the thing that a problem we have is
like a lack of imagination, Like what how the solution
to climate change could be cool and could like create
a reality that actually, you know, captures your imagination and
makes the world like a more fun place to be,
(33:16):
Like they turned that highway into a river beach on
the river send like in like that fucking rules. Yeah,
so like yeah, and then there are things like like
we I think we tend to hear a lot about
the vicious cycles and not the virtuous cycles when it
comes to climate. So like I'm just curious, are there
(33:38):
are there other places where you see people like creating better,
more sustainable futures that are actually like more fun or yes.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, well honestly, I feel like every single place that
has done that has has created like a higher quality
of living as a as a result. I mean I
live in a country that very much did that, like
Costa Rica in the seventies, you know, decided not to industrialize,
well actually to undo a bunch of industrialization that it happened,
(34:10):
and to really prioritize protecting the ecosystem in a way.
It's and it's not at all like it forgets about
humans or something. I feel like that's a trope that
you know, a lot of a lot of people think
is true that like you well, a that humans aren't
part of the environment and that and be that if
(34:31):
you care about ecosystems, you don't care about humans. But anyway,
like there's they did a really good job of of
you know, talking to all of the different types of stakeholders,
farmers and you know, fishermen and all of these people
who depended on these resources and figuring out a way
to protect them and to enable everyone to actually enjoy,
(34:54):
you know, being in all of these beautiful natural places
and like it's it's a way better quality of life.
Like New Zealand too, we actually did a whole season
on like a legal concept called rights of nature that
comes from indigenous ideas about kind of how to value
(35:14):
nature and how to think through any decision that you're
making through the lens of like what impacts it will
have on the ecosystem, including humans. But you know kind
of okay, like let's take a holistic view of what
it will mean to build this building or build this
road or whatever. And in New Zealand, they have kind
(35:36):
of baked that into like a sort of a land
back movement with First Nations people there. It's fascinating. So
they restored rights to like a sacred mountain to the
Maori there, and they kind of gave so the mountain
has rights, and then the Maori community has the ability
(35:57):
to protect the mountain's rights because of that, Like they've
turned what had been a national park that wasn't being
looked after, like it was full of trash and people
were kind of dumping on it all the time into
this really, really beautiful place that has all of these
you know, cultural centers and language learning classes and it
has just become like a like a point of pride
(36:21):
for the local community and also someplace for you know,
people in the country to come and visit. And like,
I don't know, I just I feel like there's a
chapter in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report,
the IBCC report, that was like the most wonky title.
I think it was called demand growth Scenarios or something
(36:43):
like that, but the whole point of it was so boring.
But the whole point of it was like looking at
these co benefits of like reducing consumption. Basically, it was
kind of radical for them to say this because it
was like the most anti capitalist like proposal from this
panel of scientists, and they were like, actually, if we
(37:04):
just changed all of these behaviors that are pretty basic.
It's like, you know, making it easier to get around
cities on public transport or walking or biking, shifting diets,
not entirely getting rid of meat, but like just making
them more plant based, right, you know, like a lot
of really basic things. They were like, we could actually
(37:25):
reduce emissions from forty to seventy percent by twenty fifty
just doing those things, not deploying a new technology, not
like waiting for someone to come up with a you know,
giant vacuum that sucks carbon out of the sky, which
seems to be a lot of people's dream right now,
you know, and that it has all of these benefits
(37:47):
for health, for you know, quality of life, for economically
for people it costs less to live in cities like that.
So yeah, I just I feel like there's this ten
for the climate movement to kind of constantly just be
reacting to the oil guys and their friends saying like
they want to take your hamburgers or like they never
(38:09):
want you to travel again or whatever. Instead of being like, no,
we don't. I think the climate people kind of need
to be like, this is what we're talking about, and
just yeah, they're framing altogether.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
More bikes, more bikes.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, I feel like there's a lack of imagination for
how good, you know, a more sustainable future can be.
And then there's a lack of imagination for how evil
and cynical like things actually are. On the corporate side, it's.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
And there's like an over emphasis of how great things
are in this like hyper capitalism. Like, look around, guys,
it's not good. You know, do you feel everyone I
know in the US is super stressed out? No one
is being made happier by you know, the super fast,
(38:59):
convenient capital that that's provided.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
More like isolated and cellularized.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
And yeah, the only.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Thing it's good for is making consumerism like easier.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
It's not good for people. Hyper consumerism is the new
opioid of the masses.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Basically, it doesn't even work. And all we're doing is
just fucking fiending for the next thing.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
And but I have I actually have a proposal that
can tackle climate change and gun control because the Netherlands,
you know, it's a good juxtaposition, they got more bikes
than people over there. Yeah, America got more guns than people.
What we need to do is convert these guns to bikes. Yeah,
(39:46):
and now you're taking guns off the street and you
turn them into bicycles. I think it's win win when
or you just have to like or like always have
to market bikes to be like the new fucking pickup
truck to writ like.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Tires with spikes on them.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah exactly, And we just need like a cool you know,
like like Jack, you're referencing Fast and the Furious sort
of off mic about like how that makes cars look cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, that's like the win win is the like cooler
cities to exist in and they're more sustainable, like better
quality of life and it's sustainable.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Fast and Furious would be like.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
A win lose where it's like cool movie. It does
make gas powered cars look really good. Looks makes them
look too damn cool. So we need more win wins,
like things that appeal to our imagination.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
And there's a bunch of them out there. It's not
like it's not like we have to go create a
bunch of new things. There's like a whole bunch of
stuff out there that already delivers.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, you know, multi wins. Our media does a terrible
job of covering it, right.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
It's also it's so interesting too, like if we just
had protected bike lanes through intersections like that would even help,
Like I feel like especially in La yeah, because that's
where people get hit.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah, and all I feel like.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Just incrementally be like, you know what, we're going to
turn up to intersections a little bit so that the
bike lanes are protected. I'm sure so many more people
would ride bikes, like myself included, because in La some
of these intersections. Man, you're just it's like it's a miracle.
How there's like a just a rapidly increasing like number
of fucked up bike v. Car accidents.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah, London has like built a bunch of like separate
bike paths, like they're like completely separate and like go
around go around intersections, and yeah, they look cool and
they're I don't know, man, yeah, there there are we
I just think there's a hopelessness because they we aren't
given the proper like imaginative ballast to like create the
(41:55):
solutions in our own minds.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yeah, and to think that the solutions are like fees
of there's such a like defeatism, I think, yeah, in
the face of like, yeah, all of the corporate control
and you know, corrupt government stuff and whatever, but you
do see it like at the city and state level, Yeah,
things can happen and so.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, yeah, like Denver had a great like e bike
program that was so popular and yeah, you know that's
been a boon for them, and I just think like
if you have to like even start smaller, like during
the like in the initial parts of the pandemic, I
was really into this web series called Drum and Bass
on the Bike and it was this guy who basically
he's like a DJ, but rigged up speakers and like
(42:39):
a turntable set up to his bicycle and just rode
around blasting drum and bass. And it just grew to
like hundreds of people all on bikes just vibing out
to music. But on bike was that in La No,
it's in England, Like start off in London and then
then you would be like, yo, I'm going to be
in Brighton, I'm going to be in Manchester, I'm being Liverpool, whatever,
(43:00):
and people just will come out just to like first
just kind of vibe because everybody felt so separated. But
I was like, this is genius on another level because
it's not so much about like we're doing the right
thing by the environment or whatever, but like getting people
really into the idea of like getting together being on
bikes and just having like a really good time with that.
And I feel like that's kind of like my fast
(43:21):
and furious of like biking that I see and I'm
like more bad and that.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Exactly, and we need that. Like I always whenever people
ask me like about anything that gives me like optimism
on the climate front, it's always community stuff. It's always
like any like community action because like, a we need
that as like in the US in particular, like really
needs to sort of like figure out community.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
And then and then on top of that, it's also
like it's also how you're going to survive climate change,
you know, like as as we deal with more and
more extreme weather events, like you need to you need
to have neighbors that you can count on, like you
need to live in community with other people, and we
have got to figure that shit out. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
I think Americans tend to who haven't been through a
crisis or a climate crisis or a hurricane, you know,
glued to their screens watching the other people, and they're like,
I bet there's looting crews going around. I would shoot
them so hard. And then people who are actually in
the crisis are like helping each other out, and like
(44:35):
this was actually really cool, Like I learned a lot.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
About my neighbors and like I really respect them.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
A lot more exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, yeah, I just I think it was a podcast
that I was listening to that you were on the
mention that Amy Cony Barrett's dead is a longtime shell exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Like, so that's number two.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Like, so we learned that Brett Kavanaugh's dad was like
the lobbyist who made it possible for Johnson and Johnson
to continue to sell baby powder even though it was
like obviously giving people cancer and right, it's just.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, amazing. And Alito Justice Alito has stock and Conicco Phillips.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
That's another one, Like do they pick these people out
to be Supreme Court justices when they were kids? Are
they just like yeah, they got the agree like pro
oil pro they find them when they're preteens. Yeah, it
is I cynical and complex and it's wild that like
(45:36):
there there isn't more made of that.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Also, I know it's really it's.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
The bad guy. It's really bad.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
The good positive solutions could be really fun and yeah,
it gets ignored.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
A lot, yeah, which it's true.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break, we'll come back,
we'll talk Kirk camera, we'll be right back, and we're back,
and we're back, and Kirk Cameron is back in all
(46:14):
of our minds and hearts. So who's trending? I think
it was last week. Not because there's a new entry
in the Left Behind Cinematic Universe, so though we're all
waiting on the edge of our seats for that, but
due to an o An interview in which he ranted
about how public schools are quote killing God from his home,
which features a barn with a giant crucifix entryway, Like
(46:39):
just the whole side of the barn is a a
crucifix hole that you then like walk through to get through.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
And I hate to be I hate to I hate
to take it to Bible school again like I did
yesterday with the goods American thing. But that's that's just
a cross. It's not a crucifix. Yeah, of Christ on
the Cross. I'm sorry, and I'm sorry Christ. I'm sorry. Christ.
Do not smite this podcast.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
But it's just so impractical, Like it must be so
hard to keep that like warm in the winter time.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It looks like if the kool aid man was Christian
and he busted through your barn, He's like, oh yeah,
like the shape it was just like a very jit cross.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
It's like a two to three story tall hole in
the side of his barn.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
But since the end of twenty twenty two, he has
been actively promoting his new book, As You Grow, which
huh sounds harmless enough. I think we can give it
a pass yep, but that as that might indicate this
motherfucker is still using growing pains puns. It's about a
tree and how those of us who don't believe in
(47:47):
God will burn for all eternity.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Hell yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
The description on Amazon boasts that it was written by
the Ledge Dairy Kirk Camera Legend, Legen Legion like fucking
mt We've talked about the publisher Brave Books before. They're
trying to like create a right wing marvel cinematic universe
(48:19):
for children like children books like all the books are
set in a magical land of freedom.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Island is shockingly unfree. You will be.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Surprised to learn their locations such as car A Lago Coast,
car A Lago.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
There's also a place called Wigamore Woods. What's Wigamore is
that for like the white people who think they're black,
like all the wiggers hang out over there. That might
they might have that in their books. I don't know,
some must all these Okay, whatever, cool, let's go to
Freedom Island.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, there's talking animals and conservative buzzwords, and that seems
to be about it. But so he was making headlines
last year when his book launched, claiming that he has
been banned from holding readings of his book by woke
public libraries. Huh, because first of all, is there anyone
(49:17):
anyone more victimized than white Christian former TV stars trying
to promote their latest vanity project, Like, oh absolutely, it's
so hard for them. And also, is there a scarier
villain than librarians?
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I mean that you Encounts on Human Rights talked about
this about how the problem white Christian former TV stars
are really really we really need to bring more attention
to their plight.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
They're protected group. But his war with librarians mainly is
him piggybacking on all the bigotry and hate directed at
drag Queen's story hours using it to promote his book
are doing that Books featuring l g B t Q
plus characters are terrifying and a step towards totalitarianism.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Wow, not like not like burning and banning books that's
not a step towards.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
The I don't see any historical reference point for that
that would make sense at all. This is what he's
probably saying, Yeah, toward totalitarian acceptance.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yes, he denied that he's just trying to make headlines
and sell his book and claimed that librarians were starting
a war with him.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Librarian said, who is Kirk Cameron?
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yes? Wait, so how did they start this war? Because
they people drove to his house and threw dog shit
on his door and said, don't fuck with the library.
I mean the fact that the hole that his door
is a giant cross shaped hole would make it super
easy to throw dog shit in there. But yeah, he So.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
His version of wade them waging war on him is
that he asked for and he didn't just ask for
like a slot to read his books to kids at
the libraries, and his agencies email the libraries. They mentioned
that Cameron also wanted to lecture children about the quote
harmful effects of woke ideology, specifically critical race theory and
(51:25):
the transgender agenda.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Transgender, the transgender.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
What the fuck? It's like, it's so obvious, like he's
just drafting off of like the culture warship for.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Him, but that that letter was specifically written to like
outrage the people who get box. And then there was
libraries like one in Providence, Rhode Island very politely declined
the offer because they are They were like, hey, we're
like super queer friendly and that like your messaging just
(52:04):
like would not align with the community.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
Whoa and what so yeah what words of war fighting words?
Messaging does not quite align?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Is the library really called Rochambeau?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah? Wow, I love that.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Okay, so that was that was the That was the
killing of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Yes, little prince hip,
So then tell me, tell me how the invasion of Poland.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
I think I'm mixing my World War II eyes up.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Another library received Cameron's request in New York and responded
to the message by and like, try try to remain
calm as you hear this act of aggression, sending a
link to the online application for presenting a library program.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
They're like, Oh, you want to read at our library? Oh?
Just like here, here's where's the form, which they do
to every request of this type. And the publisher did
not submit an application oh, censorship. Yes, And then so
he sent a letter about the transgender agenda, the transgender.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
And thank you, thank you jfkgenda.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
And the library declined extremely politely, and Kirk Cameron threatened
legal action. No, and the library director directed them to
a request for a room rental.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Okay, do it in fine, you can have access to
the library, but just do it in your own little room.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Of This is the thing that is like pissing me
off the most about all of these these guys being like,
I'm my free speech rights are being you know, curtailed
or whatever, Like, no one guarantees you an audience, bro,
That is not what the First Amendment says, speech, not
free reach. Like, get a grip. I don't understand it.
I thought they all had pocket constitutions they should read them.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, but that is that's what they want. That's what
Elon Musk wants. Ye'll keep firing people until every one
of his tweets gets to every Twitter more traction than
the supermom.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
But so he he did that, then booked the room,
but then complained, and this is like a subtle form
of warfare. Complained because his event wasn't on the website calendar,
even though a Plato playdate was.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Come on. Plato play date is like a is like
a headline event for a library.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's the Night of Long Knives. I feel
like that's like promoting the Plato playdate. So in March,
he appeared at a Brave Books library, reading with other
illustrious children's authors such as Jack Pasobiac, Oh my God,
Sean Spicer, the Lips of TikTok person, and like twenty
(55:04):
people showed up and crew and they were like apparently
really embarrassed by that. I'm like, for twenty people for children?
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Wait when was the book reading? I don't know. It
was like looks like it was ten thirty am on
a Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Right, oh Wednesday morning. Yeah, weren't they in school?
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Yeah, children were in school, but they were taking out
twenty children and twenty five adults showed up.
Speaker 3 (55:28):
What the plan it? Do you even know the concept
of your audience?
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Like?
Speaker 3 (55:34):
Where are they? There are in their mind they're all
being homeschooled because they're not getting indoctrinated with the woke
ideology in public schools or something. Sure, great, great time y.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yeah, but they again, it's the free speech not free
reach point, that's a that's a great saying, they say.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Exactly, Like, I just I don't know every single time
someone is like, but my idea is should have a
large audience.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
No people don't like them though, Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Yeah, your whole thing is you hate pizza, exactly like
your audience. You just I don't know who the fuck
I'm being surpressed? Yeah, just because everything I'm saying is
so wildly unpopular. Why won't it catch on?
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (56:24):
It worked for me. But then it's like always funny
because you think these people are like it worked for Hitler, right,
why can't it was killing it doing the same material
right now? Yeah, no one likes it? What the fuck
is this? But it's true.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Everybody has a persecution complex, like including like NBA players,
Like everybody like thinks because because it's like an optical
illusion created by our attention economy where you like hear
every bad thing that is ever said about you, and
your brain only hears the bad things and not the
good things, and so everybody thinks they're being persecuted. And yeah,
(57:06):
the right is probably the biggest defender. Yeah, good luck
to you, because they do actually suck as opposed to
Joe LMB, who a lot of people like, but like
one guy says he sucks and he's like nobody believed
in me from the jut right actually sucks at what
they're doing. So they're probably hearing a lot more of it.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
All right, Well, Amy, it's been such a pleasure having
you on the daily Zeikegeist.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Thank you so much for having me again. I'll see
you guys in four years four.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
Type four later. Where can people find you? Follow you
all that good stuff I have?
Speaker 2 (57:47):
Let's see a bunch of stuff on drilled dot media.
That's where like the podcast and related writings and stuff are.
I also write regularly for The Guardian and The Intercept
and then I am on Twitter still at Amy Westervelt.
Speaker 3 (58:02):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying?
Speaker 2 (58:07):
Oh my god, have you guys seen I know that,
Like we were talking about the writer's strike and how
you know it's a bummer that all the TV channels
are switching to like nonscripted reality TV. But have you
seen Jury Duty?
Speaker 3 (58:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (58:23):
My god, it's so good.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
I love.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
No no.
Speaker 1 (58:31):
About son in law?
Speaker 3 (58:33):
Yeah, now, dude, biodome.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
Yeah, Jury Duty killed me.
Speaker 3 (58:39):
The streaming shows, yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
Yeah, yes, yes, it's so good. I thought it was
so good and also like, yeah, just just sort of
like endearing and very watchful. So yeah, that's the thing
I binged most.
Speaker 1 (58:52):
Recently, Miles Where can people find you? Is there a
work of media you've been enjoying.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
At based web sites at Miles of Gray. If you
like basketball talk and you want to hear more about
Jack Sad NBA, can check us out on our NBA podcast,
Miles and Jack got Mad Boosties or Sad Boosties in
this week's episode. And if you like ninety day Fiance,
catch me and Sophia Alexandra out on our ninety day
show for twenty Day Fiance. It's amazing a couple of
(59:22):
meets I like because we were talking about you know,
AI or and then the workers strike. This one is
from Carl Sharro at Carl Remarks tweeted, humans doing the
hard jobs on minimum wage while the robots write poetry
and paint is not the future I wanted. Yeah that
felt real, real, Yeah that was spot on. And then
(59:43):
Taylor K Phillips at Take k Phillips tweeted, literally, no
one understands something more completely than a woman in a
meeting who starts a question with so just so I
understand Yeah, turns out yeah, yeah, totally amazing.
Speaker 1 (59:59):
You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien
tweet I've been enjoying at marxist in five to one three?
Is that Dayton Ohio.
Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
The five to one three tweeted.
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Just screencap of an article that said, these entitled millennials
are cheering for a housing market crash. Millennials are actually
cheering for a housing market crash on Twitter so they
can afford a home. It seems the very image of entitlement.
And you just tweeted gaslight me, daddy, you're entitled because
(01:00:33):
you want to be able to afford a house at
some point in your life.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Mm hmmm, uh huh yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
This is like this kind of goes in line with
a lot a lot of things I've heard so many
are read more articles like millennials are actually doing better
than gen X and boom yeah mm hmm. And you're like,
just because the dollar amounts are like higher in certain respects,
like I'm sorry, okay, sure, let's go on.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
At this stage after like a decade of like hyper inflation.
Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Yeah, I tried to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I just have a chart that I have to show
my bloomer mom like once a year to remind her that,
like where shows, Yeah, like cost of living in wages.
I'm like, see that gap, See how the gap cames growing?
You know, she's like whoa, because every time I see her,
she's like, I don't understand what people we were extended.
Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
I'm like, yeah, it almost seems like an unbelievable reality
to be in, right from your perspective, that's what?
Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Yes, all right, Well, you can find me on Twitter
at Jack Underscore Obrian. You can find us on Twitter
at daily Zegeist. We're at the Daily Zekeeist on Instagram.
We have a Facebook fan page or website daily zekeist
dot com where we post our episodes and our footnope
or we link off to the information that we talked
about today's episode, as well as the song we think
(01:01:52):
you might enjoy, Miles, is there a song that you
think people might enjoy?
Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
Yeah, I was just listening to this rapper from from
the UK, bro jambo j I, a n b O
Chinese Vietnamese British rapper with like a prime style. This
this track is called monkowk Madness m O n g
Kok Madness Uh and it's just dope. Get into it.
(01:02:18):
Uh Jambo coming at you well.
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
The Daily zeitgeis is production of by Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Radio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
That is going to do it for us this morning,
back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and
we will talk to you all then Bye bye bye
Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to eighty seven, episode.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Four of the Warehouse.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
This is still the production of My Heart Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:10):
I didn't catch any of that. I tried to do
the full Dean scream lead up and then we're watch
to take back to the White House.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
We're gonna watch it.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
We're gonna watch this take by the Warehouse. Yeah, Dean
just like cranked up on cocaine, had to cram it
in man, the whole the whole book.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Well, this is a podcast, Miles. Did you did you
know this? Do you hear about this?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
You see? This is the podcast where we take it
deep to have into America share consciousness. Oh, take a
deep to have into American share consciousness and stuff.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I like that.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
I sound more and more like a carnival.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Or a auctioneer.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Auctioneer. Thank you, We finish each other's sandwich and which Yeah,
Thursday Day, May eighteenth, twenty twenty three, which of course
means eighteenth National Cheese Soup Lay Day, National No Dirty
Dishes Day, Also International International Museum Day, National HIV Vaccine
(01:07):
Awareness Day, National Visit Your Relatives Day, Awareness Day.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yeah, raising awareness that there is one or just the
who work together to find. Oh okay, got a sate
like in vaccine. Yes, you know, it's all about research.
It's all about research, research, all right.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Well, my name is Jack O'Brien AKA. We're going down
down in the second playing rounds, and buddy, we're going
down sadly.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
That is courtesy of make Curi.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Oh yeah, on the Goody Court make Curory, who said
I don't know enough about sports to take it further,
but Jack was about his sad NBA made.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Me think of sugar. We're going down his sad NBA.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Is my favorite description talking about his sad NBA.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Oh man, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I'm over it or you know, it's one of those
breakups that we're just we've tried too many times and
just moving along. And I'm thrilled to be joined as
always by my co host mister Miles Gram.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Miles break a.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Fresh out of the de fryer. They're reaching temps that
no one's seen, earning no fresh out the d fryer around,
straight to the skin of your pre teen Shout out
(02:42):
to Rayzac on the discord, because yeah, we're talking about
those McDonald's nuggies burning that child.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah. Four four is uh I guess, definitely preteen.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
They're pre four years. You got a rhyme with no
one seen, you know when you say prech attendee, I
don't know. I'm not here to workshop, but I like it. Yeah,
I just refer to my kids as preteens. Now me too,
my baby. Have you got a kid?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Preteen?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Oh? Really three and a half months? You go, hey,
it's technically true. Why you want to know so much
about my kid?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Huh? This? Who's this guy? What are you the cops?
What are you a fucking cop? What are you asking
about my kid? What is real? Age is? Don't worries
a preteen? Move on?
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Uh, miles. We're a thrilled to be joined by an
award winning writer, investigative journalist, podcaster, so you know from
her Peabody nominated work on This Land, her investigative climate
podcast Drilled. Please welcome back to the show on a
four year cycle, Amy Western.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Thank you so much for that intro.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
But before we started recording, we were talking about you
were last on May twenty second, twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Crazy Yeah, yeah, I can't believe it.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Fact you're like the Olympics and presidential elections, just everything
the world cup drop some Westervelt on rs exactly what's that?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
What's okay? Catch us up in the last four years since?
Are good? Right things?
Speaker 2 (04:28):
What's what's happened lately? Yeah? Oh my god, well, I
I guess the big new thing is that I live
in Costa Rica.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Now you what I mean?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Huanacosta, Okay, yeah, on the Pacific coast. It's nice.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Yes, I actually got married there.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
You did?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Where in hako Oh is really nice?
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah because my aunt. My aunt
is Costa Rican. So I've been going there since I
was a kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got it. Yeah yeah,
but she's from me, She's from the Atlantic, you know
where the black people are at.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I still haven't been to Limon yet. I really want
to go.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Oh it's dope. It's dope.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It's so amazing and the history is so interesting and like, yeah,
I just yeah, I want to go.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Okay, Yes, living there, do you feel like you are
sixty percent less stressed out? That's yeah, Like that's how
I feel every time I leave in America.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Yeah, like I work on all the same stuff. I'm
still immersed in all of the like crazy politics and
climate stuff and all of it, but it's like the
context really helps.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah. Yeah, especially in a country too that is like
trying to do right by their own and like part
patch of Earth, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Like my kids are in school here and they had,
like they had the day off a few months ago
for the day that they celebrate getting rid of their
military so they'd have money to pay for like health
care and education. What well, I love this place.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Never mind, I'm not I'm no longer on board.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
No, they'll send a doctor to you if you like
live in a remote place to be like, hey, you're
doing all right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Where they come into my house to get my guns smiles,
Come on.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
That ship, Jack.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Wow, that sounds nice. That sounds really nice. Like I
dream of leaving the US, and then I like part
of me is like yeah, but then you go somewhere
and like wherever you go, there you are, and I'd
be just distressed anywhere else.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
But you can't run away from your problems Jack.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
But like I lived in Ireland for like a few
months when I was in college, and like I just
remember getting back and just like the ambient stress level
of everybody in line at the airport. Yeah, just like
you can just like sense this, yes, silent, invisible, just
like anger and energy and yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I know. Like the longer I go without going back
to the like when I when I have been here
for like you know, five or six months without going
back to the US, and I go back, it's really noticeable.
It's really like, oh my god, why is everyone such
an asshole to each other?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yes, each other. I think it's just a reflection like
when you're in a place where the government is actively
telling you, like we don't give a fuck about you
or what happens to you. Everyone's just like fuck versus.
If there's just some semblance of like you know, community
or responsibility towards each other, that's right. Just you're laid
(07:48):
back a couple of clicks, it might not be as
lit like with the consumer goods as maybe the US. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, that's the thing is you cannot like I went
to Okay, So last year I was in Guyana reporting
a story and I hung out with this guy who's
a like chef. He you know, used to live in
New York for years and years and was from Guyana.
Moved back home and he and I were talking about
the US, and he's like, do you miss it? Like
you've been gone for a while, now, do you miss
(08:15):
anything about the US? And I was like, you know,
the only thing I miss sometimes is the way that
America like makes it extremely easy to participate in capitalists
right right, Like occasionally, yes, like that convenience is missed,
but otherwise not really. I mean it's it's but yeah,
I think it's you know, everybody is is kind of
(08:35):
having put in the position of having to fight for scraps,
and it leads to this really competitive, you know, individualistic. Yeah,
that is like not healthy for any of us.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Now you got to hustle to keep your health care,
that's right. That does something to your central nervous system
as a human being.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Yeah, well yeah, yeah. The retail therapy is real.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Like there's that scene in White Noise, Like there's a
scene of White Noise where like the family just goes
to the grocery store to like feel whole again, look
at the colors and like let them wash over them.
And that is real to me, Like I I love
a trip to the grocery store and just coast go
to Maso Menos and get there you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Mega super whatever it is, get it.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
They got it. They got it.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
But like you can get really good food stuff here
and I don't know whatever, and yeah, you just after
a while, even with my kids like I have my
kids are seven and ten, also preteens.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
And actual preteens. Yeah, I think my three and a
half month year old three and a half month year
old as well a half month year old. Also.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Did you hear how judgy she was when she said
actual our preteens?
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Our Wow, yeah, you're six and four preteens.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
But you were saying the first month or something, they
were like, can't we just order it on Amazon? And
I have delivered tomorrow And I'm like, yeah, not a
thing here, guys. Sorry, you're used to it. But now
it's like they don't. It doesn't come up.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
How old were they when you guys moved?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
They were five and eight?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Damn all right, I still got time. I could do it.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
It's quite easy to immigrate to Costrica. I just put
that out there. They make it very easy in lots
of different ways.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
So yeah, and look, you know that's the fucking you
loved that ship out there. And it's funny too, like
every d I used to, like back when I was
like years ago, my friends would be like, oh, can
I go to Costa Rica? Like when you go, I
want to go with you. Every person that comes with
me ruined, They're ruined.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
After I went to Like, I had to go to
a conference last month in the US, and like I
was on. I was on a bunch of panels, one
of which was actually like a panel that I organized.
And I went to lunch beforehand, and I was like,
I want to walk back from lunch. It's a beautiful day.
And I totally put aviated my ass into being like
ten minutes late for my own panel.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And I was like, what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Man?
Speaker 2 (11:17):
And I'm like, I know I wanted to walk after lunch.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Oh here's something you should learn. Yeah, you should learn
about me. I'm on Tico time.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So I'm sorry. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And when you were ten minutes late for your own panel,
your life completely fell apart, right, And.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
That was you know what charming?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Oh weird?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
So that you can actually just have a good pace
of life exactly, Yeah, not.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
In my brain. My brain will be like this is it.
This is the end of my life.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, Well, fucking show up. All right, Amy, we're going
to get to know you a little bit better in
a moment. First, we're going to tell our listeners a
couple of the things we're talking about. Uh, we're going
to talk about the one point five celsius threshold of
global warming, which we're going to be crossing in the
(12:07):
next years, the coming days. It'll be like that scene
in the Social Network where they have the big numbers
up on the board and then everybody celebrates and Mark
Zuckerberg threatens to sue somebody. So we're just going to
talk about the general state of climate with Amy. We're
also going to get to a fellow, you know, David v.
(12:28):
Goliaths Amy. You know, Amy takes on the fossil fuel industry,
tells difficult truths about them that they don't want told. Well,
there's another David taken on Golias by the name of
Kirk Cameron, and he has decided to take on Big Librarian.
(12:48):
So get ready for a sordid tale. All of that
plenty more. But first, Amy, we do like to ask
our guests, what is something from your search history?
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Well, this morning I was looking at oil stock prices,
which I feel like is very on free end of it,
but like the less expected one from last night, which
this is embarrassing. I looked at how to make fried
mac and cheese balls because I had a bunch of
leftover mac and cheese, which is both gross but also
delicious really good.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yes, well, so just breadcrumbs basically, just.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
You Okay, you roll them into balls and you freeze
them like you roll leftovers into like little balls. Freeze it.
Then you cover it in egg and breadcrumbs. Yeah, and
then pop into hair Fryernila.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
More cheese, coating that thing like a couple cheese.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I was thinking about that, like
could I wrap a piece of cheese around this before
I fried?
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, use the egg as the glue that sticks the
cheese to it.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
And you were check in the oil stocks just to
see how you was doing. Yes, Yes, are you diversified
because I got X and I got VP y shell baby,
I got them all.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So they're all there, They're all there.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
No.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I wanted to see if there was a really big
ruling in a case I was falling against Exxon, and
I wanted to see if it was the ruling came
out against exon. I wanted to see if it impacted
their stock.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
And it did, so that's why I get. That's why
you weren't in Zurich this winter when I was looking
for you on the slopes and let's she.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Excellent, probably walking home late to this skiing. What is
something you think is overrated?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Oh blue sky? The new social media? Yes, go on,
just old Twitter. It's old Twitter. It's two thousand and eight,
two thousand an e ish Twitter. And I feel like
I'm not doing anything that makes me think it will
end up differently. So yeah. Also, honestly, I feel like
(15:12):
everyone should just take the opportunity to get the fuck
off of social media, Like it'll be okay, it'll be okay,
and like we're all screwing around trying to find a
cool replacement. But like maybe it's just time to, you know,
talk to people in real life, touch grass as the
youths like to say.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
So, where do you find the strangers that you argue with?
Do you just kind of find this stranger?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Actually weird, weird little discovery about my corner of Costa
Rica is a whole bunch of really like random libertarians
so here in the last few years, including a lot
of like Alberta Tarsan's billionaires from Canada. So so yes,
I do come. I come across street to argue with
(16:01):
not on the street in real life, in my in
my neighborhood. Sometimes, Yes, that.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Area is interesting because like flying out of San Jose
is very different than flying out of Liu Aia. Oh yeah,
like the airport in Lividia feels like Florida. Yes, Like
when I'm there, I'm like, I'm sorry, where are It's like.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So yeah, yeah, totally. And then you know Tamarindo, which
is like the biggest kind of town outside from Liberia
here is everyone calls it Tama Gringo because it is
so it's like the whitest town.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
And yeah, yes, good sports, that's what brings me down here.
Great sports, fishing.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yeah, so there are all these these people and it's
I had a conversation just last week with someone who
was saying they were from they were from Alberta, Tarzan Skuy,
and he was like, I like it here because it's
because of the freedom. And I was like, oh, you
know what actually enables that freedom. The normal social safety
nets are a good day.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
I'm like, how are you with all the vaccine passport
stuff when Costa Rica was on top of that. Because
they were on top of.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
That, they were on top of it, and a bunch
of those people just like couldn't leave the country for
for like a while because not only was cost Rica
on top of it, but also you know, other countries
were asking for for vaccine things too, So yeah, actually
a bunch of those people were effectively housebound. And that's
the thing too. They're like, oh, but I didn't get sick,
and I'm like, yeah, because the rest of the country
(17:31):
got vaccinated. Dude, that's how it works, right, Yeah. Anyway, Yeah, See,
it's just like Twitter, but in real life.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, you can have the same arguments and they aren't
even made up people in your head while you're trying
to go to sleep in the middle of the night.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, what is uh? What something you think is underrated?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
I'm so embarrassed to say this out loud. Birds. I
fucking love to watch birds go off.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Birds queen, what amazing birds here. I've heard of these things,
but I actually haven't. So you're you've got a person
who's underrating birds here. I've heard of them, but like,
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
They're a little flying dinosaurs. They're little flying dinosaurs. How
dare you?
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I yeah, they're reading, Uh what's the book that's about,
like the evolution of how they became so beautiful?
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Oh, I don't know. Weirdly, I have, like I rarely
have an obsession with burbs and yet know nothing about them,
Like made it as much obsession with bbs. I need
a T shirt that says I heart Burbs now yes please? Anyway, Yeah,
(18:53):
I like, I really like them. I like watching them,
but I know almost nothing about them. Someone asked me, like,
I had someone visiting the other day and I was like, look,
it's my favorite yellow bird. And they're like, you mean
the blah blah blah. I'm like, I don't know what
it's called. It's like yellow.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah, I don't know yellow bird yellow.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I love birds, you know, And I'm picturing that conversation
happening around big bird.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
You're like, I love yellow bird, and they're like big bird.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
You're like, I don't know the.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Tech whatever you call him.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I'm not gonna I'm not going to hit you with
the binomial nomenclature here, but I believe it's just yellow bird.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
A damn My Google search how Birds Got So Pretty
did not did not bring up the book that I
was thinking of. It's like the Birds Evolution The Evolution
of Birds by Sarah Hills. How beauty is making science
the rise of birds. I'll figure it out by the end.
(19:51):
But yeah, it's all about.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Just you know, they they started.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
It's been a steady arms race like how to be
most beautiful bird since they started evolving. And it's like, like.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
So humans won't kill them or.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
No, it's not like that's what I always assumed. It
was like that there must be some you know, survival
of the fittest, like kill or be killed thing to this,
and it's just mating and trying to be the sexiest bird.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
To other amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Ye, I love it. It's all about Yeah, it's all
about being hot and right. That's also why their songs
are so beautiful. It has nothing to do with us.
They don't give a ship yet.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
I feel like you're just talking yourself into loving birds
more right now.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
No, I actually I was playing playing character of guy.
Yeah I love birds too. Yeah, it's the one like
with the bower bird that like builds that immaculate like
sex throne sexist. The bower bird like builds like goes around,
(20:59):
gets all these like shiny trinkets and different things like hey, like, hey.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Check this out.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
This is chick old plastic spoon. Like some of the dances,
some of the mating dances.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
That they do.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
It's like four dudes will do a mating dance so
that one of them can mate, and they are like elaborate.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
And that was my One of my favorite Planet Earth
segments too, was on the one all the different birds
and like how they were just all getting down and
then just watching like the disinterested female be like just
fly away, like.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
I'm sorry. The Evolution of Beauty, How Darwin's forgotten theory
of mate choice shapes the animal world and us by
Richard oh prum Is.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Okay, don't even have birds in the title.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It has birds, Yeah, verbs, urbsburbsumb birds. Well, let's take
a quick break. We'll come back and talk about some news.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
My favorite Tom Hanks movie, The Burbs, thea Burbs.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
And we're back, and so is this climate change story
back in the news. It's like enough, we get it,
am I right?
Speaker 3 (22:27):
I remember telling you after Coachella. After Coachella, Jack I
was telling you, like, I'm only about good vibes right now, yes, vibes,
And I didn't want to think about climat change or
whatever it's called. It's so such a bummer, but yeah, man,
one and a half degree is celsius is like something
that stretched me out since I first heard of like
(22:47):
the concept. You know that the Earth is a degree
and a half celsius warmer now than it was on
the back end of the nineteenth century. It's sort of
like a key indicator of potential runaway climate change, which
would lead to increased fires and out and storms and
heat waves and everything we've seen that has been so
fucking horrific and obviously the key number behind many climate
(23:08):
summits and negotiations around emissions, and researchers are now saying
that they expect to see us pass this threshold within
the next few years, like by twenty twenty seven. They
think it's going to happen, And they say there's still time,
and that merely getting to one and a half degree
celsius doesn't mean that the parish agreement is completely futile.
It would have to be sustained, a sustained sort of
increase over twenty years for that to happen. But as
(23:30):
someone who's constantly freaked the fuck out by the chances
of again increased terrible weather events, it fills me with
an impotent rage. Phrase we've been saying quite frequently on
the show. But yeah, like Amy, as someone that's you're
very dialed in on this and all of the machinations
around climate change and climate denial, aside from the fact
(23:50):
that climate change denial is doing its job, how are
you feeling about this, this sort of this news.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
It's just it's really frustrated because I feel like, well,
first of all, I think, okay, I feel like we
should say that a lot of like a lot of
the predictions around it happening in the next few years
are also related to the El Nino, right stuff, And
so scientists are like, we'll probably cross it and then
go back, which is good just to you know, give
(24:19):
people a very tiny sliver of the slight breast of
the silver lighting. But but yeah, I mean, aside from that,
every single indication is that we are hurdling towards one
point five degrees and beyond. I mean, since the Paris
Climate Agreement, I don't think anyone has actually kept their commitments,
and we're going the opposite direction on oil and gas development.
(24:43):
That's just the facts. So, I mean, I don't know.
My personal opinion is that the international climate negotiations process
has kind of been broken from the beginning. I mean
there were fossil fuel company is involved in that from
the jump, I mean, from you know, even before the
(25:06):
first they call it the Conference of the Parties cop
which are these like annual global meetings or all of
the leaders get together and they decide on an agreement.
Before that, yeah, exactly. Yeah, So before that, in nineteen
ninety two, there was the Real Earth Summit, which is
where they came up with like, you know, the UN
(25:27):
Framework for Climate Change and how were they were going
to bring everyone together to do this? And there were
oil guys all over that place. They were they helped
to craft some of the language of the UN framing
on climate change and really like with the idea of
you know, we will voluntarily do X, y Z, so
(25:48):
nobody has to regulate emissions, nobody has to make emissions
reductions mandatory, any of that. The closest that we ever
got to doing something that would have that you know,
had some impact was probably the Kyoto Protocol in the
mid nineties, which had binding emissions reductions where you had
to actually you had to actually do something. Since then,
(26:10):
everything's been voluntary. So you know, in Europe there are
countries that are being sued for not regulating their oil
and gas companies to keep them in line with the
Paris Climate Accord, which is very interesting. There was a
case last year in the Netherlands where a court ordered
(26:31):
Shell to like to reduce their missions. They were like,
you guys actually have to reduce emissions across the board
around the world from not just your own operations, but
also the use of your product by like forty percent
in the next ten years or something like that. So
there are like things happening outside of the global kind
(26:53):
of negotiations. But I don't know, I just I feel
like I kind of think it's time, you know, to
just kick the fossil fuel industry out of that whole process.
They've been there the whole time. You know, we're not
getting any closer to actually doing something, and you know,
next year's cop is going to be held by the
(27:13):
United Arab Emirates.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
And is like this is crazy.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
The most fossil fueled of these events to have happened,
so it's getting worse now.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yes, it's covered like it's a solution, like it's a
possible solution every year, and the people who are on
the ground are like, it's it's a oil industry trade show.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
It is. It's exactly that.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah, And I always talk about too, like how outnumbered
representatives from countries are versus the fossil fuel industry. There
are more people here from the fossil fuel industry than
like countries that are at like right now seeing the
worst of climate change exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
But then you also have like at the same time
you have I don't know, we just did the story
in Guyana, which has me thinking a lot about all
of this stuff. Because they're Global South country. They had
no oil industry up until twenty nineteen. So actually the
last time I was here is when they started their
oil industry.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
And what's happening time good news.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, they're now on track to be the number one
like production zone for exonmobile in the world.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
For it to happen that quickly is really unheard of,
and you know, it's but it's really interesting to talk
to some of the politicians there because Guyana was like
a big conservation leader for a long time. They were
one of the first countries that was sort of like
paid by polluting countries to preserve their forests and stuff
like that, and they are like a big eco tourism
(28:41):
destination all of this stuff. But they're like, we have
ninety percent of our population on the coast and it
is that stretch of the coast where ninety percent of
the population lives is going to be underwater by twenty
thirty and we don't have the money to do anything
about that. So we're getting into the oil business. And
I was just like, man, that is the biggest indictment
(29:02):
of the international climates like negotiation system that I can
think of, because like we have put these countries in
the position of being dependent on oil fucking companies. Yeah
to adapt to climate change, right. Yeah, So anyway, I'm
really fun at parties and yeah, I mean I think
(29:22):
that the thing with one point five is like just
to give people again, like a tiny bit of I
don't not necessarily hope, but maybe like fuel to keep going.
It's just that like it's it every percentage of a
degree counts, and everything that we do now will have
an impact on, you know, the viability of the next generation.
(29:47):
And we're not great as humans are thinking about, you know,
being a good ancestor to future generations. But we need
to be because we get there.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
I think other civilizations were good at that. Just what
this Western hyper consumerist, hyper capitalism version of humanity, which
is an aberration. It's just a cancer that's taken over
and spread. But it's totally it is bad at that.
But there have been you know, long surviving civilizations that we're.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
We're good at it, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Yeah, the only concept we have of being good ants
I should be like, well I need to accumulate as
much wealth now, yes, to let that maybe behind or
maybe I die with it all in my coffin. I
don't know. I don't know. But that's like the thinking
that you think people do now is sort of like
it's it's a financial future. Yeah, and it's like if
anything else is too abstract. It's not about like, well
(30:41):
I can make decisions now, Like to your point, Amy,
that could can reverberate on some level, right, but it's
we don't think like that.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
No, No, yeah, exactly, Like a lot of a lot
of indigenous cultures had that really baked into everything, you know,
like totally how what we do now will impact this
water source for future generations and this food source and
all of that stuff. And I feel like, yeah, the
world has gotten really far away from, weirdly from the
(31:10):
sorts of behaviors and practices that are conducive to the
sustainability of human life. Like we talk about sustainability, you know,
and it's like, oh, the environment or the trees or
whatever it. Guess, like all of that is very important
and we're part of that. But I don't understand the
like the death wish thing, and I don't think that
most humans have it. I think we're talking about a
(31:31):
very specific group of people who make these decisions and
who and you know, people say things like, well, they're
you know, that's ridiculous because nobody can escape the impacts
of climate change. I don't think that's actually true. I think,
and I don't think that they think it's true. I
think that you have a bunch of people who are like,
(31:52):
I'll just get my spaceship, like freakin' Elon Musk is
on that tip now, you know. It's like Wally right,
and like bunkers in New Zealand and Costa Rica and
they'll you.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Know, they're all buying up beach or like you knows.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
So we've we've talked a little bit about like a
couple of stories in the past few months that have
made me feel somewhat optimistic are the story of how
the Netherlands like made like cut emissions across their country
by like getting rid of cars basically in a lot
of theirs.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
And it made their cities more pleasant.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yes, yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you, is like, yeah,
these are I think the thing that appeals to me
about these two stories like Paris becoming this like amazing
bikeable city, the Netherlands doing that after being like just
traffic choked like the worst versions of American cities, you know,
(32:53):
very decade within the past like fifty years. And I think, like,
I think the thing that a problem we have is
like a lack of imagination, Like what how the solution
to climate change could be cool and could like create
a reality that actually, you know, captures your imagination and
makes the world like a more fun place to be,
(33:16):
Like they turned that highway into a river beach on
the river send like in like that fucking rules. Yeah,
so like yeah, and then there are things like like
we I think we tend to hear a lot about
the vicious cycles and not the virtuous cycles when it
comes to climate. So like I'm just curious, are there
(33:38):
are there other places where you see people like creating better,
more sustainable futures that are actually like more fun or yes.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, well honestly, I feel like every single place that
has done that has has created like a higher quality
of living as a as a result. I mean I
live in a country that very much did that, like
Costa Rica in the seventies, you know, decided not to industrialize,
well actually to undo a bunch of industrialization that it happened,
(34:10):
and to really prioritize protecting the ecosystem in a way.
It's and it's not at all like it forgets about
humans or something. I feel like that's a trope that
you know, a lot of a lot of people think
is true that like you well, a that humans aren't
part of the environment and that and be that if
(34:31):
you care about ecosystems, you don't care about humans. But anyway,
like there's they did a really good job of of
you know, talking to all of the different types of stakeholders,
farmers and you know, fishermen and all of these people
who depended on these resources and figuring out a way
to protect them and to enable everyone to actually enjoy,
(34:54):
you know, being in all of these beautiful natural places
and like it's it's a way better quality of life.
Like New Zealand too, we actually did a whole season
on like a legal concept called rights of nature that
comes from indigenous ideas about kind of how to value
(35:14):
nature and how to think through any decision that you're
making through the lens of like what impacts it will
have on the ecosystem, including humans. But you know kind
of okay, like let's take a holistic view of what
it will mean to build this building or build this
road or whatever. And in New Zealand, they have kind
(35:36):
of baked that into like a sort of a land
back movement with First Nations people there. It's fascinating. So
they restored rights to like a sacred mountain to the
Maori there, and they kind of gave so the mountain
has rights, and then the Maori community has the ability
(35:57):
to protect the mountain's rights because of that, Like they've
turned what had been a national park that wasn't being
looked after, like it was full of trash and people
were kind of dumping on it all the time into
this really, really beautiful place that has all of these
you know, cultural centers and language learning classes and it
has just become like a like a point of pride
(36:21):
for the local community and also someplace for you know,
people in the country to come and visit. And like,
I don't know, I just I feel like there's a
chapter in the most recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report,
the IBCC report, that was like the most wonky title.
I think it was called demand growth Scenarios or something
(36:43):
like that, but the whole point of it was so boring.
But the whole point of it was like looking at
these co benefits of like reducing consumption. Basically, it was
kind of radical for them to say this because it
was like the most anti capitalist like proposal from this
panel of scientists, and they were like, actually, if we
(37:04):
just changed all of these behaviors that are pretty basic.
It's like, you know, making it easier to get around
cities on public transport or walking or biking, shifting diets,
not entirely getting rid of meat, but like just making
them more plant based, right, you know, like a lot
of really basic things. They were like, we could actually
(37:25):
reduce emissions from forty to seventy percent by twenty fifty
just doing those things, not deploying a new technology, not
like waiting for someone to come up with a you know,
giant vacuum that sucks carbon out of the sky, which
seems to be a lot of people's dream right now,
you know, and that it has all of these benefits
(37:47):
for health, for you know, quality of life, for economically
for people it costs less to live in cities like that.
So yeah, I just I feel like there's this ten
for the climate movement to kind of constantly just be
reacting to the oil guys and their friends saying like
they want to take your hamburgers or like they never
(38:09):
want you to travel again or whatever. Instead of being like, no,
we don't. I think the climate people kind of need
to be like, this is what we're talking about, and
just yeah, they're framing altogether.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
More bikes, more bikes.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, I feel like there's a lack of imagination for
how good, you know, a more sustainable future can be.
And then there's a lack of imagination for how evil
and cynical like things actually are. On the corporate side, it's.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
And there's like an over emphasis of how great things
are in this like hyper capitalism. Like, look around, guys,
it's not good. You know, do you feel everyone I
know in the US is super stressed out? No one
is being made happier by you know, the super fast,
(38:59):
convenient capital that that's provided.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
More like isolated and cellularized.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
And yeah, the only.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Thing it's good for is making consumerism like easier.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
It's not good for people. Hyper consumerism is the new
opioid of the masses.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
Basically, it doesn't even work. And all we're doing is
just fucking fiending for the next thing.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
And but I have I actually have a proposal that
can tackle climate change and gun control because the Netherlands,
you know, it's a good juxtaposition, they got more bikes
than people over there. Yeah, America got more guns than people.
What we need to do is convert these guns to bikes. Yeah,
(39:46):
and now you're taking guns off the street and you
turn them into bicycles. I think it's win win when
or you just have to like or like always have
to market bikes to be like the new fucking pickup
truck to writ like.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Tires with spikes on them.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Yeah exactly, And we just need like a cool you know,
like like Jack, you're referencing Fast and the Furious sort
of off mic about like how that makes cars look cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
Yeah, that's like the win win is the like cooler
cities to exist in and they're more sustainable, like better
quality of life and it's sustainable.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Fast and Furious would be like.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
A win lose where it's like cool movie. It does
make gas powered cars look really good. Looks makes them
look too damn cool. So we need more win wins,
like things that appeal to our imagination.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
And there's a bunch of them out there. It's not
like it's not like we have to go create a
bunch of new things. There's like a whole bunch of
stuff out there that already delivers.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
Yeah, you know, multi wins. Our media does a terrible
job of covering it, right.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
It's also it's so interesting too, like if we just
had protected bike lanes through intersections like that would even help,
Like I feel like especially in La yeah, because that's
where people get hit.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Yeah, and all I feel like.
Speaker 3 (41:11):
Just incrementally be like, you know what, we're going to
turn up to intersections a little bit so that the
bike lanes are protected. I'm sure so many more people
would ride bikes, like myself included, because in La some
of these intersections. Man, you're just it's like it's a miracle.
How there's like a just a rapidly increasing like number
of fucked up bike v. Car accidents.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
Yeah, London has like built a bunch of like separate
bike paths, like they're like completely separate and like go
around go around intersections, and yeah, they look cool and
they're I don't know, man, yeah, there there are we
I just think there's a hopelessness because they we aren't
given the proper like imaginative ballast to like create the
(41:55):
solutions in our own minds.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Yeah, and to think that the solutions are like fees
of there's such a like defeatism, I think, yeah, in
the face of like, yeah, all of the corporate control
and you know, corrupt government stuff and whatever, but you
do see it like at the city and state level, Yeah,
things can happen and so.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, yeah, like Denver had a great like e bike
program that was so popular and yeah, you know that's
been a boon for them, and I just think like
if you have to like even start smaller, like during
the like in the initial parts of the pandemic, I
was really into this web series called Drum and Bass
on the Bike and it was this guy who basically
he's like a DJ, but rigged up speakers and like
(42:39):
a turntable set up to his bicycle and just rode
around blasting drum and bass. And it just grew to
like hundreds of people all on bikes just vibing out
to music. But on bike was that in La No,
it's in England, Like start off in London and then
then you would be like, yo, I'm going to be
in Brighton, I'm going to be in Manchester, I'm being Liverpool, whatever,
(43:00):
and people just will come out just to like first
just kind of vibe because everybody felt so separated. But
I was like, this is genius on another level because
it's not so much about like we're doing the right
thing by the environment or whatever, but like getting people
really into the idea of like getting together being on
bikes and just having like a really good time with that.
And I feel like that's kind of like my fast
(43:21):
and furious of like biking that I see and I'm
like more bad and that.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
Exactly, and we need that. Like I always whenever people
ask me like about anything that gives me like optimism
on the climate front, it's always community stuff. It's always
like any like community action because like, a we need
that as like in the US in particular, like really
needs to sort of like figure out community.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
And then and then on top of that, it's also
like it's also how you're going to survive climate change,
you know, like as as we deal with more and
more extreme weather events, like you need to you need
to have neighbors that you can count on, like you
need to live in community with other people, and we
have got to figure that shit out. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
I think Americans tend to who haven't been through a
crisis or a climate crisis or a hurricane, you know,
glued to their screens watching the other people, and they're like,
I bet there's looting crews going around. I would shoot
them so hard. And then people who are actually in
the crisis are like helping each other out, and like
(44:35):
this was actually really cool, Like I learned a lot.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
About my neighbors and like I really respect them.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
A lot more exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
Yeah, yeah, I just I think it was a podcast
that I was listening to that you were on the
mention that Amy Cony Barrett's dead is a longtime shell exactly.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Like, so that's number two.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Like, so we learned that Brett Kavanaugh's dad was like
the lobbyist who made it possible for Johnson and Johnson
to continue to sell baby powder even though it was
like obviously giving people cancer and right, it's just.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Yeah, amazing. And Alito Justice Alito has stock and Conicco Phillips.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
That's another one, Like do they pick these people out
to be Supreme Court justices when they were kids? Are
they just like yeah, they got the agree like pro
oil pro they find them when they're preteens. Yeah, it
is I cynical and complex and it's wild that like
(45:36):
there there isn't more made of that.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
Also, I know it's really it's.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
The bad guy. It's really bad.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
The good positive solutions could be really fun and yeah,
it gets ignored.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
A lot, yeah, which it's true.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah, all right, let's take a quick break, we'll come back,
we'll talk Kirk camera, we'll be right back, and we're back,
and we're back, and Kirk Cameron is back in all
(46:14):
of our minds and hearts. So who's trending? I think
it was last week. Not because there's a new entry
in the Left Behind Cinematic Universe, so though we're all
waiting on the edge of our seats for that, but
due to an o An interview in which he ranted
about how public schools are quote killing God from his home,
which features a barn with a giant crucifix entryway, Like
(46:39):
just the whole side of the barn is a a
crucifix hole that you then like walk through to get through.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
And I hate to be I hate to I hate
to take it to Bible school again like I did
yesterday with the goods American thing. But that's that's just
a cross. It's not a crucifix. Yeah, of Christ on
the Cross. I'm sorry, and I'm sorry Christ. I'm sorry. Christ.
Do not smite this podcast.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
But it's just so impractical, Like it must be so
hard to keep that like warm in the winter time.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It looks like if the kool aid man was Christian
and he busted through your barn, He's like, oh yeah,
like the shape it was just like a very jit cross.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
It's like a two to three story tall hole in
the side of his barn.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
But since the end of twenty twenty two, he has
been actively promoting his new book, As You Grow, which
huh sounds harmless enough. I think we can give it
a pass yep, but that as that might indicate this
motherfucker is still using growing pains puns. It's about a
tree and how those of us who don't believe in
(47:47):
God will burn for all eternity.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
Hell yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
The description on Amazon boasts that it was written by
the Ledge Dairy Kirk Camera Legend, Legen Legion like fucking
mt We've talked about the publisher Brave Books before. They're
trying to like create a right wing marvel cinematic universe
(48:19):
for children like children books like all the books are
set in a magical land of freedom.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Island is shockingly unfree. You will be.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Surprised to learn their locations such as car A Lago Coast,
car A Lago.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
There's also a place called Wigamore Woods. What's Wigamore is
that for like the white people who think they're black,
like all the wiggers hang out over there. That might
they might have that in their books. I don't know,
some must all these Okay, whatever, cool, let's go to
Freedom Island.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, there's talking animals and conservative buzzwords, and that seems
to be about it. But so he was making headlines
last year when his book launched, claiming that he has
been banned from holding readings of his book by woke
public libraries. Huh, because first of all, is there anyone
(49:17):
anyone more victimized than white Christian former TV stars trying
to promote their latest vanity project, Like, oh absolutely, it's
so hard for them. And also, is there a scarier
villain than librarians?
Speaker 3 (49:34):
I mean that you Encounts on Human Rights talked about
this about how the problem white Christian former TV stars
are really really we really need to bring more attention
to their plight.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
They're protected group. But his war with librarians mainly is
him piggybacking on all the bigotry and hate directed at
drag Queen's story hours using it to promote his book
are doing that Books featuring l g B t Q
plus characters are terrifying and a step towards totalitarianism.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Wow, not like not like burning and banning books that's
not a step towards.
Speaker 3 (50:15):
The I don't see any historical reference point for that
that would make sense at all. This is what he's
probably saying, Yeah, toward totalitarian acceptance.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
Yes, he denied that he's just trying to make headlines
and sell his book and claimed that librarians were starting
a war with him.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Librarian said, who is Kirk Cameron?
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yes? Wait, so how did they start this war? Because
they people drove to his house and threw dog shit
on his door and said, don't fuck with the library.
I mean the fact that the hole that his door
is a giant cross shaped hole would make it super
easy to throw dog shit in there. But yeah, he So.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
His version of wade them waging war on him is
that he asked for and he didn't just ask for
like a slot to read his books to kids at
the libraries, and his agencies email the libraries. They mentioned
that Cameron also wanted to lecture children about the quote
harmful effects of woke ideology, specifically critical race theory and
(51:25):
the transgender agenda.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Transgender, the transgender.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
What the fuck? It's like, it's so obvious, like he's
just drafting off of like the culture warship for.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
Him, but that that letter was specifically written to like
outrage the people who get box. And then there was
libraries like one in Providence, Rhode Island very politely declined
the offer because they are They were like, hey, we're
like super queer friendly and that like your messaging just
(52:04):
like would not align with the community.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
Whoa and what so yeah what words of war fighting words?
Messaging does not quite align?
Speaker 2 (52:15):
Is the library really called Rochambeau?
Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah? Wow, I love that.
Speaker 2 (52:22):
It's amazing.
Speaker 3 (52:25):
Okay, so that was that was the That was the
killing of the Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Yes, little prince hip,
So then tell me, tell me how the invasion of Poland.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
I think I'm mixing my World War II eyes up.
Speaker 3 (52:37):
But yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Another library received Cameron's request in New York and responded
to the message by and like, try try to remain
calm as you hear this act of aggression, sending a
link to the online application for presenting a library program.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
What the fuck?
Speaker 1 (52:56):
They're like, Oh, you want to read at our library? Oh?
Just like here, here's where's the form, which they do
to every request of this type. And the publisher did
not submit an application oh, censorship. Yes, And then so
he sent a letter about the transgender agenda, the transgender.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
And thank you, thank you jfkgenda.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
And the library declined extremely politely, and Kirk Cameron threatened
legal action. No, and the library director directed them to
a request for a room rental.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Okay, do it in fine, you can have access to
the library, but just do it in your own little room.
Speaker 2 (53:47):
Of This is the thing that is like pissing me
off the most about all of these these guys being like,
I'm my free speech rights are being you know, curtailed
or whatever, Like, no one guarantees you an audience, bro,
That is not what the First Amendment says, speech, not
free reach. Like, get a grip. I don't understand it.
I thought they all had pocket constitutions they should read them.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yeah, but that is that's what they want. That's what
Elon Musk wants. Ye'll keep firing people until every one
of his tweets gets to every Twitter more traction than
the supermom.
Speaker 2 (54:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
But so he he did that, then booked the room,
but then complained, and this is like a subtle form
of warfare. Complained because his event wasn't on the website calendar,
even though a Plato playdate was.
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Come on. Plato play date is like a is like
a headline event for a library.
Speaker 1 (54:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's the Night of Long Knives. I feel
like that's like promoting the Plato playdate. So in March,
he appeared at a Brave Books library, reading with other
illustrious children's authors such as Jack Pasobiac, Oh my God,
Sean Spicer, the Lips of TikTok person, and like twenty
(55:04):
people showed up and crew and they were like apparently
really embarrassed by that. I'm like, for twenty people for children?
Speaker 3 (55:11):
Wait when was the book reading? I don't know. It
was like looks like it was ten thirty am on
a Wednesday.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Right, oh Wednesday morning. Yeah, weren't they in school?
Speaker 1 (55:23):
Yeah, children were in school, but they were taking out
twenty children and twenty five adults showed up.
Speaker 3 (55:28):
What the plan it? Do you even know the concept
of your audience?
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Like?
Speaker 3 (55:34):
Where are they? There are in their mind they're all
being homeschooled because they're not getting indoctrinated with the woke
ideology in public schools or something. Sure, great, great time y.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yeah, but they again, it's the free speech not free
reach point, that's a that's a great saying, they say.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Exactly, Like, I just I don't know every single time
someone is like, but my idea is should have a
large audience.
Speaker 1 (55:59):
No people don't like them though, Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (56:06):
Yeah, your whole thing is you hate pizza, exactly like
your audience. You just I don't know who the fuck
I'm being surpressed? Yeah, just because everything I'm saying is
so wildly unpopular. Why won't it catch on?
Speaker 2 (56:23):
Exactly?
Speaker 3 (56:24):
It worked for me. But then it's like always funny
because you think these people are like it worked for Hitler, right,
why can't it was killing it doing the same material
right now? Yeah, no one likes it? What the fuck
is this? But it's true.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
Everybody has a persecution complex, like including like NBA players,
Like everybody like thinks because because it's like an optical
illusion created by our attention economy where you like hear
every bad thing that is ever said about you, and
your brain only hears the bad things and not the
good things, and so everybody thinks they're being persecuted. And yeah,
(57:06):
the right is probably the biggest defender. Yeah, good luck
to you, because they do actually suck as opposed to
Joe LMB, who a lot of people like, but like
one guy says he sucks and he's like nobody believed
in me from the jut right actually sucks at what
they're doing. So they're probably hearing a lot more of it.
Speaker 2 (57:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (57:29):
All right, Well, Amy, it's been such a pleasure having
you on the daily Zeikegeist.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Thank you so much for having me again. I'll see
you guys in four years four.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
Type four later. Where can people find you? Follow you
all that good stuff I have?
Speaker 2 (57:47):
Let's see a bunch of stuff on drilled dot media.
That's where like the podcast and related writings and stuff are.
I also write regularly for The Guardian and The Intercept
and then I am on Twitter still at Amy Westervelt.
Speaker 3 (58:02):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (58:03):
And is there a work of media that you've been enjoying?
Speaker 2 (58:07):
Oh my god, have you guys seen I know that,
Like we were talking about the writer's strike and how
you know it's a bummer that all the TV channels
are switching to like nonscripted reality TV. But have you
seen Jury Duty?
Speaker 3 (58:22):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (58:23):
My god, it's so good.
Speaker 3 (58:24):
I love.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
No no.
Speaker 1 (58:31):
About son in law?
Speaker 3 (58:33):
Yeah, now, dude, biodome.
Speaker 1 (58:36):
Yeah, Jury Duty killed me.
Speaker 3 (58:39):
The streaming shows, yeah.
Speaker 2 (58:42):
Yeah, yes, yes, it's so good. I thought it was
so good and also like, yeah, just just sort of
like endearing and very watchful. So yeah, that's the thing
I binged most.
Speaker 1 (58:52):
Recently, Miles Where can people find you? Is there a
work of media you've been enjoying.
Speaker 3 (58:58):
At based web sites at Miles of Gray. If you
like basketball talk and you want to hear more about
Jack Sad NBA, can check us out on our NBA podcast,
Miles and Jack got Mad Boosties or Sad Boosties in
this week's episode. And if you like ninety day Fiance,
catch me and Sophia Alexandra out on our ninety day
show for twenty Day Fiance. It's amazing a couple of
(59:22):
meets I like because we were talking about you know,
AI or and then the workers strike. This one is
from Carl Sharro at Carl Remarks tweeted, humans doing the
hard jobs on minimum wage while the robots write poetry
and paint is not the future I wanted. Yeah that
felt real, real, Yeah that was spot on. And then
(59:43):
Taylor K Phillips at Take k Phillips tweeted, literally, no
one understands something more completely than a woman in a
meeting who starts a question with so just so I
understand Yeah, turns out yeah, yeah, totally amazing.
Speaker 1 (59:59):
You can find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien
tweet I've been enjoying at marxist in five to one three?
Is that Dayton Ohio.
Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
The five to one three tweeted.
Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Just screencap of an article that said, these entitled millennials
are cheering for a housing market crash. Millennials are actually
cheering for a housing market crash on Twitter so they
can afford a home. It seems the very image of entitlement.
And you just tweeted gaslight me, daddy, you're entitled because
(01:00:33):
you want to be able to afford a house at
some point in your life.
Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Mm hmmm, uh huh yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
This is like this kind of goes in line with
a lot a lot of things I've heard so many
are read more articles like millennials are actually doing better
than gen X and boom yeah mm hmm. And you're like,
just because the dollar amounts are like higher in certain respects,
like I'm sorry, okay, sure, let's go on.
Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
At this stage after like a decade of like hyper inflation.
Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Yeah, I tried to.
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I just have a chart that I have to show
my bloomer mom like once a year to remind her that,
like where shows, Yeah, like cost of living in wages.
I'm like, see that gap, See how the gap cames growing?
You know, she's like whoa, because every time I see her,
she's like, I don't understand what people we were extended.
Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
I'm like, yeah, it almost seems like an unbelievable reality
to be in, right from your perspective, that's what?
Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Yes, all right, Well, you can find me on Twitter
at Jack Underscore Obrian. You can find us on Twitter
at daily Zegeist. We're at the Daily Zekeeist on Instagram.
We have a Facebook fan page or website daily zekeist
dot com where we post our episodes and our footnope
or we link off to the information that we talked
about today's episode, as well as the song we think
(01:01:52):
you might enjoy, Miles, is there a song that you
think people might enjoy?
Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
Yeah, I was just listening to this rapper from from
the UK, bro jambo j I, a n b O
Chinese Vietnamese British rapper with like a prime style. This
this track is called monkowk Madness m O n g
Kok Madness Uh and it's just dope. Get into it.
(01:02:18):
Uh Jambo coming at you well.
Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
The Daily zeitgeis is production of by Heart Radio. For
more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Radio app Apple Podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
That is going to do it for us this morning,
back this afternoon to tell you what is trending and
we will talk to you all then Bye bye bye
The Daily Zeitgeist News
Hosts And Creators
Jack O'Brien
Miles Gray
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