Weekly Zeitgeist 405 (Best of 10/27/31 - 10/31/25)

The weekly round-up of the best moments from DZ's season 412 (10/27/31 - 10/31/25)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello the Internet, and welcome to this episode of The
Weekly Zeitgeist. These are some of our favorite segments from
this week, all edited together into one NonStop infotainment laugh stravaganza. Yeah, So,
without further ado, here is the Weekly Zeitgeist.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Miles.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
We're thrilled to be joined in our third seat once
again by the director, journalists, and hosts behind one of
the great podcasts.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
It is about as.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
I think he put it the first time. He was
on the fact that the world is queerer than many
of us suppose, indeed queer than many of us can suppose.
It's called other world.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
He's called Jack Wagner. To be clear, I did not
say that, but thank you for having me on the show.
It's a pleasure as always to be here. I did
not call my show queer, and if I did, it
would be in a positive way. Yes, yeah, yes, Where
do you get that fake quote? I thought? Man, did
you actually think time?

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Did you actually think I said that I had that
quote and maybe it was something that I thought was
I think it was being used to describe the paranormal Wait,
that's me.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
I said. It's original, it's giving pre nineteen hundred. Yes,
for sure, for sure, for sure, but I'll take it.
I'll take it's a good quote. It's a good quote.
Quote sums up some of my favorite parts of you.
Although you should start doing that to every guest, is
kind of like and see what they do with it
if it's a good quote, Like I mean, sometimes you

(01:36):
might want to take credit. Why not? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, Jack, thank you so much for coming back. You
think you any travels and travails since you were last
we wanted to have you on on the spookiest of weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:49):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
Your podcast is so good. We're gonna end up just
being like, man, you remember that episode?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
I was crazy? Sometimes I might not remember it, which
is the craziest part that's true? Is that real? Dude?

Speaker 1 (02:04):
What is something from your search history that's revealing about
who you are?

Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah, I'm getting something from your search history.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Why is this embarrassing? No, I'm going to answer the question.
It doesn't seem like get his ass smiles. She's where's
mommy tonight? No, my mom. I broke this all by
myself in the role of the two bullies from Hocus Pocus. Yeah, yeah,
it's carved into the back of my head. Dude, it's
not Ernie, it's ice man. The way they took his sneakers, Bro,

(02:35):
that was fucked up.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
I was like my part, I'm like, bro, don't let
them take the second He's like, hey, let me try
him on. I'm like, bro, you need to either teary
a blade on you or to bike the fuck off.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Some don't let them take your shoes.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
They look, he's wearing some new cross trainers. I was like, oh,
so you got Nike to let you do this if
you used.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
The someone Yeah, someone's a Bo Jackson fan talking about
cross trainers.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
But yeah, and they saw him managed to fit a
guy who was clearly a thirty three year old playing
a teenager.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Sorry to keep bringing up bogus focus, but yeah, victory
the tessad. The parents did nothing. Yeah, the parents do well.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
No, the parents were like, he's probably not wearing shoes
as a form of protests.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
They do that, they do qualify as some of the
worst parents in the history of movies.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
I don't know, Uh, yeah, that is true. I don't
know if that's I don't know if it was like
my house or just a like an immigrant people a
color black thing. But if you didn't come home in
the new fucking shoes that were bar for you. There
was a full fucking sit down splaining session.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
To an inquiry. Yeah, fully anyway, sorry, also talking about.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
The wild that they were, like, he's not wearing shoes
in the house. What what's going on? It's like, you
shouldn't wear shoes in the house. He's freaks, disgusting Americans. Anyway,
what's your church history, asshole?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
What's my shoe size? Yeah, what's your shoe size? Asshole?
Get his ass, spike, get his ass ice. Well, I'm
at a ten and then I'm currently sitting on a
ten shoe. Oh Google search was.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
Tavern style pizza because I'm doing a show in Chicago
in December, and i know about the deep dish and
I'm getting there a day early to eat all day,
so extra night of hotel not covered.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
So you're yeah, of course, of.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Course, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. It's a gorgeous It's gorgeous. I
actually like just barely in my room, and not because
I'm exploring the city. It's because I'm just staring at
how beautiful the hotel is. Yeah, which is so nice.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
So wait, you're getting there a day early to just
get your fill of like all the Chicago like classics.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
These beefs, these these deep dishes and these and my
friends from Chicago. And he's like, you know, obviously like
recommended the the pea quads of the world. Then was like,
we we eat tavern style. That pizza is there so
which is a thin, thinner crust, crispy and not cut.

(05:14):
I know you guys know this already. I'm explaining this
to We talked.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
About somebody reverence it and didn't really have a great
idea in my mind, but I I think I had
some idea.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
But I cut me off. If you didn't fucking cut
me off, I would We're learning. Sorry, we're learning. Sorry,
God keep talking. No tell us about it. You don't
talk all right?

Speaker 3 (05:37):
Justin in the chat Chicago Chicago born and bred Aurelio
some of the best tavern style pizza in the Chica.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
There you go, Chicago Land area. Stand up.

Speaker 4 (05:45):
I didn't need to google anything. I could have just
emailed just for all this information.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Has that you stopped doing that.

Speaker 4 (05:52):
But yeah, I know it's getting a little bit. It's
getting really granular. Now you're like Jack Ware, I'm sorry
for what how I just treated you.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
That was crazy. I'm so sorry. It's okay, I'm sorry
for my tone. No, you're forgiven, but I'm never Victor.
Victor just a note here, never have blake back on
the show. Okay, okay, Well, once you tell me who
Victor is, I'll apologize.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
You failed, you failed, your failed, sealed your fate. Fuck.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
I've also, speaking of crossing boundaries, I've asked Victor to
send me multiple pictures of his Victor's dog.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
So I love that dog, adorable dog. I'm all a
beautiful dog.

Speaker 5 (06:29):
Yeah, beautiful, beautiful dog. Beautiful, beautiful a dog. It's a
beautiful dog, one of the most beautiful. You know some
saying like sex as much as I do.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
What what? This dog can breathe underwater for five minutes?
I don't think he knows what a dog is.

Speaker 3 (06:52):
The dog was frozen in nice folks in Times Square
and got out eventually.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
That's David blame, sir, No, that's the dug. Yeah, No,
he's a nasty dog. Where are we at now? So
you googled it? Is it material?

Speaker 4 (07:11):
I put it in a smoothie and I gargle it
before I go.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
I have this amazing voice.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Delicious yeahs are are you gonna go to Portillo's? Obviously
that's not like a unique that's like, you know, everyone
goes to Portillo's, but the fucking roast.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Beef and cheddar croissant sandwich is are you kidding me?
Deca dunce?

Speaker 4 (07:34):
Okay, So no hip I think that's a great piece
of advice, no hip factor if you're going to go
do this, you know, so it's like, oh, everyone goes
to Portillo's, then go to then go yeah, you know, if.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Everyone's going, we don't have it, we don't have it here.
So yeah, I don't have it here. Yeah exactly.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
So yeah, I don't have to be mister cool, like, oh,
I found like a hut you know, underneath the Mississippi
River somewhere, you know, like where they anyway, Yeah, exact exactly.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
So you know you're near the Mississippi, the mighty mississipp Yeah,
right through. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
And uh but yeah, so that's what That's what I
was like, I'm trying to figure out what foods I'm
getting myself into. So gonna do deep dish, of course,
gonna do tavern style and do a lot.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Of like pack comedians just do, like trolley Chicago food
jokes like I feel like they go and they look
at it.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Like, hey, I just had just have one of your
great hot dogs with ketchup all over it. Fucking kill
that guy.

Speaker 3 (08:36):
I heard lou mal Naddi's is the best pizza in
all of the land.

Speaker 4 (08:42):
For that reason, I do almost I do almost always
intentionally avoid like a local reference like that, because if
they've been to any comedy show, I'm sure every single
or commenting on something in the room, you know where
if there's like a weird window, it's like, I'm sure
that joke has been made forty five thousand times.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
That's a weird window. Huh. The crowd just goes insane.
That leaded a backflip off her table.

Speaker 5 (09:07):
Yeah, it was great window, so we'll break the window.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Window. Yeah. What is something you think is underrated? Douglas?

Speaker 6 (09:19):
Okay, underrated? This is my hot take is not too cultury,
but New York City beaches. I think, you know, people
are always talking shit about like, oh, Coney Island's dirty
rock Away this or that. I think they're awesome, totally underrated.
I go all the time, even when it's cold, to

(09:41):
rock Away. I feel like like I don't know. I
feel like it's totally a little paradise out there.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
I've I've never I've been to New York a lot,
but I've never gone to the beach. I'm always curious
because I see people at the beach. I see people
with spaghetti on the beach. Yeah, well what spaghetti on
the beach?

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Yeah, it's good to me. Thing.

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Apparently I kept saying, like, Pero going spaghetti, spaghetti on
the beaches out there, But wait, what do you think?
I guess I look at it from an LA perspective,
and I'm like, New York is not an each place,
but its.

Speaker 6 (10:12):
Exactly And there's part of me that's like, great more
for me when I hear stuff like that. So first off,
water's cold in LA. Water's cold in San Diego. Water's
cold here. So anybody who's like, oh, well, you know
it's warmer out in California, You're like, sure, it's generally
the air is warmer, but the water is still cold.
In both places. You're gonna have to wear a wet

(10:33):
suit either way. But there's like a decent breakout here.
It's a great cross training. It for a lot of
different type of waves, like there's great food, like, there's
great energy, and it's also got like a little diy
music scene by the beach, and I just feel like
it's like, oh, definitely something that a lot of people
haven't tapped into who live here, especially I mean obviously

(10:54):
during the warmer months, but even when it's not warm,
just like getting out being near the water. There are
whales that breach out on Rockaway from Like it's like
during the fall, the whales come out. I've served when
there's like porpoise, like schools of porpoise out in New
York and people just like are like New York City.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Beach, that's disgusting. I would never go. And I'm like
cool because we're all images.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Like you walk off the beach and you have like
three different syringes stuck into different parts of your body.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
I just think of like the East River. Is that
why people are just like it's the East River, right
New York.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeahs, some of the best tap water New York City
does shout out to the Ashokun Reservoir.

Speaker 6 (11:37):
Yeah, but yeah, I mean and maybe when the Ramones
were going to rock Away, maybe there was syringes in
the water, but just.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
From them just from that extra explicitly by them. Yeah,
I mean it is. There's a book called The Power
Broker that is about like the building out of a
lot of the beaches and the parkways and the attempt
to democratize all of the things that New York has

(12:04):
to offer by a horrible racist guy named Robert Moses.
But it is cool to see like somebody was just
like at a time when ambitious people went into doing
public works projects and built that whole thing out. It
is pretty inspiring and also a little depressing because it

(12:27):
feels like it takes place in a different universe than yeah,
where we exist now and have to hope that some
tech billionaire tries to develop something in a place that
we want.

Speaker 6 (12:40):
To get maybe Robert Moses will get the Marvel treatment
on a poster or tao if for.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Yeah, so when you're going to the beach of the
winter or you're going to surf, or are you going
like fully clothed to like look out at the water
and feel guilt about killing your friend big pussy because
that's my only experience.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
New York City beaches.

Speaker 6 (13:05):
Yeah, no, I mean it's definitely with the surf intension.
If the waves are too big and above my skill level.
I'll watch people surf, but it definitely has to do
with the surf community there. But the best surf is
in the fall. It's when the hurricanes hit, it's when
the storms are heading and so it's more consistent shaped waves.

(13:26):
In the summer that kind of flattens out and it's
not as good as surf. So yeah, pretty much year round.
But I mean I even last there was like a
really grade ten days stretch last January, and I said it,
I'm going in the wet suit. I'm getting some salt
water and some sunlight. And I went in like thirty
degree weather last year.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Good for you wouldn't be me. You don't feel any
guilt about having killed your your good friend b pussy.
Look he was, he was.

Speaker 6 (13:54):
He was collaborating with the fedst It had.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
To be done.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
That's everyone in New York. Yeah, yeah, passed it. What
is something Danny that you think is overrated?

Speaker 7 (14:09):
Overrated is buying a dog? Like dog breeding? How are
we still doing this in twenty twenty five.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
I wanted to.

Speaker 7 (14:18):
Say that I have a new foster, Luna, who she's
going to pop on camera real quick.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
Dogging?

Speaker 7 (14:27):
Oh, my gosh, she's so cute here, let me see,
isn't she just?

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Is that a dug?

Speaker 5 (14:33):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (14:34):
My dog?

Speaker 7 (14:35):
Wait?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Where said? Sorry? The strap had me up getting months old.

Speaker 7 (14:44):
She's a little shy right now, mainly because I just
handed her because a podcast.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Right, She's like second, I don't do second podcast. Yeah, sorry,
so a couple of guys with a podcast. I'll turn
my cameras.

Speaker 7 (15:00):
I just got her like two days ago, and fostering her.
She's available through Pups without Borders border everyone. Yeah, they
stop stop breeding dogs. They're all of our shelters here
in La are over capacity.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (15:14):
So, and she's so sweet. Yeah yeah, so you can.
You can find her on my thing. You can find
her on Post without Borders, but also on my account.
I've been posting just the cutest. She took an adorable
bath and just looked like a kangaroo. Honestly, she's like
part dingo. Wow, like American dingo, which is the dog

(15:35):
in Prey. I guess because they're like they wanted an
animal that was indigenous, like to America.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
So oh the movie Prey.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yeah, it's so funny you mentioned fostering. I went outside
to walk my dog and This dude was out in
like near the front of my house and was like hey, David,
and I was like nah, and I kept I kept
it moving. He's like, hey, so it's me Matt.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Is this it?

Speaker 3 (16:00):
And was like I was like what the I'm like, well,
I said wait, bro, what and he's like the dog?
Is this the dog? And I'm like, yeah, this is
my dog. He's like yeah, I saw I'm here. And
I was like, buddy, I'm like, who are you looking for?
And then he said the name's not yes, I'd say David.
And then my fucking neighbor comes out and he apparently

(16:21):
he was fostering a dog, a black dog like mine.
And then I was like, oh, okay, bro, I thought.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
I was like you have to fight or something. I
didn't know what you were trying to do. The guy
coming by like, yo, you got it? Yeah, I'm boy,
what are you doing? Am I holding? That's not anymore?
I don't have that on me right now.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
We will accept Luna as a Halloween story also because
Luna is moon and Moon is spooky.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
I feel like that would be good enough for like
a song about the moon would make it onto a
Halloween playlist like towards the end, amazing. All right, thrilled
to have you here, Danny. We're gonna take a quick
break and then we're gonna come back and talk about
the spooky, a subject of all nuclear weapons testing.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
We'll be right back, and we're back. We're back. And uh.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
You did a couple episodes on WIGE Awards, Yes a
year ago or so, and then a more recent one
where you cover the phenomenon of Zozo and Zaza.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Who I mean, it's funny, it's it is funny, the
aren't The episodes aren't funny, they're scary, but they are spooky.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
I was getting spooked. It's getting downright spooked to listen
to those things. It's kind of like, he reminds me,
have you ever been in a meeting where like someone
zoom bombs it? Yeah, like usually a teenager fuck you,
like just the worst thing they could think of. But
in that that's really funny though, that's.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
Like such a twenty twenty kind of It was a
real zoom boy, it was a it was a real
pandemic thing.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, And that kind of feels like, what's happening. It's
like these two malevolent spirits that keep and so so
here the the thing that is creepy about it is
that you're taught you the format of your shows. You
talk to people who they then tell their story of

(18:31):
this thing that resists sort of explanation happening to them,
and so it's like almost an oral tradition. You get
to hear the story from them. It adds a real
like layer of like I don't know that's this is
like it's hard to deny when people are like, yeah,
so like I was in high school, like this is

(18:51):
the weird shit that I was doing, and then like
this thing started happening. And in this case that like
people were fucking around with Wigi boards and like they
started having these like really dark messages come through and
it was Zozo in the episodes from last year was

(19:12):
like what they kept it kept going zo Zo Zeo,
and like they they didn't realize it at the time,
but like you do the research and this is a
there's a trend across people who fuck around with wigi
boards of like this specific thing happened.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
Oh and Zaza is like a common Ouiji board. It's
like a very common thing, very common. There's like a
movie called I am Zozo that I think is like
not very well reviewed. I think it's like a thirteen
percent rotten tomato situation, but a classic. But yeah, this
is like a massive thing, and you know, I had

(19:47):
heard of it, like I I think I had heard
of like the concept just from being on the internet
or something. But it's totally something that I would completely
laugh at and not want to do on the show. Yeah,
I think you.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Were consciously making up names. Those would not be the
names you came.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Sounds like a fake name that like a thirteen year
old girl she's like trying to write a horror movie
for the first time, like a like a five year
old That lies a lot.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, but it is weird.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
And yeah, I started getting a lot of emails about it,
and then you know, obviously people I ended up interviewing
had like really intense stories that involve this, and apparently
it's really common for something to kind of like take
over on the board and identify itself by this name.

(20:39):
And yeah, I guess that was like where it turned
for me, is when I was starting to talk to
people who like weren't aware that this is a phenomena
that's known and even things that kind of like happened
before the anybody was talking about this at all on
the internet.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, So my read like heading in was more like
I think we were they're super interesting because I do
think like they're you know, like like skeptics will be like, oh,
it's just like people you know, moving the thing on purpose,
and I tend to think it's like more they're moving

(21:15):
it and don't realize they're doing it, and so this
like part of them is being expressed that they don't
have access to or like control over, you know, like
it's like a sort of YOUNGI in like some part
of and in this case it would be like a
shared unconscious because they all have the same name and
like this that is associated with the same like dark energy. Yeah,

(21:39):
which I think like that doesn't explain everything, but I
do think it's easy. Like this comes up a lot
on our show in reference to like the story of
Havana syndrome, where everyone was like, oh, they were making
it up, and it's like, I don't think they were
intentionally making it up, Like I think they experienced those

(22:01):
realities of like a bad thing like getting hit with
a sound beam or being like under attack by some
like invisible force that it turns out as like kind
of physically impossible to have happened.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
But like they I know, I'm sorry to force a detour,
but did they ever find a solution for that? Was
there any closure?

Speaker 1 (22:23):
It's not like officially, but you know, you as documents
have been released the CIA themselves and and like the
different departments, the Pentagon, like prior to the Trump takeover,
all seemed to be like, we don't think there was
any like physical basis for these attacks. And these are
our organizations that would seemingly love a physical basis for

(22:47):
an attack that they could you know, start getting funding around.

Speaker 2 (22:50):
Because I heard compelling explanations on both sides of it.
Like I first encountered it as something that was just
complete nonsense. It was like evil CIA people having like
maybe internalized guilt for the horrible things they do at work. Yeah,
but uh, you know, uh, but that I've also heard
some stuff that was really compelling on the other side,

(23:12):
Like there's I listened to it like a series where
it interviewed some people who had experienced it in a town.
Isn't really intense, But anyway, you can continue with your point.
I didn't mean I just I think that that's true.
I think that they experienced harrowing things. I think I
think the power of the unconscious mind is like the
great underrated force of people's existence. And I think like

(23:35):
ritual and you know, all these things that we don't
really make room for officially, as like mattering in our world.
In a lot of cases, like are ways of accessing that.
And I think I just think that people are like,
if it's their own conscious mind, then it's like skeptic
skeptic view not interesting. And I think that's actually like

(23:58):
really interesting that like that that's kind of what's going on.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
But there are definitely parts of the story that would
make it like impossible for that. Like there's one part
where it predicts that they're at like a high school
movie screening on a football field, and it is like
it predicts that the projector is about to go down

(24:22):
and it does.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah. Yeah, There's a ton of stuff like that. And
I mean also the fact that in that story this
occurred before this whole Zozo thing was like a trend,
like a decade before. Yeah. And then the other thing
is like the basis for poo pooing wigiboards as they say,
it's like the ideo motor effect. It's like this idea

(24:43):
that like microscopic muscle movements in a group can like
guide the thing the plan chet. But and that's you know,
like the idio motor effect is like a real thing.
I'm pretty sure it's been like proven to exist. But
if you look at the word like z O, like
z is all the way at the end, oh is

(25:05):
not equally the at the end on the opposite side,
it's like one earlier. So I just think, like if
you guys, if like, like I know, people explain it
away by saying like, oh, it's just sort of like
in the downtime between you know, the radio motor effect
spelling out a word, people just kind of like go
to the side to side pattern and hit that. I'm like,
I just don't think it would hit z O or

(25:27):
z A for that matter, Right, it's two specifics things
from each other. Yeah, it's too common. It's too common.
I would expect to see other patterns of that sort.
And that's sort of what I I kind of come
to those conclusions a lot on the show, where I'm
very open to looking at it both ways, but sort
of like, well, I would expect to see more like

(25:48):
I'm same same with like the hat man stuff, right,
the hat man stuff. The hat Man is this very
common shadow figure that people see oftentimes in sleep prolysis,
but people see it not during sleep paralysis. It's just
the shadow shadow man that looks like he's wearing like
a wide brimmed hat and sometimes he has red eyes.

(26:10):
There's like another thing that I would have laughed at
and thought was corny until I realized, like how common
this is.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
And it's like a localized thing because I mean, I've
I see it. It's all over the place, right, So,
and that's kind of what makes it sort of interesting.
It's not just like, well, these group of kids over
here said when they're fucking around with ambient or something.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
It's like, no, this is it. Oh yeah, there's that too. Yeah,
the benda dryl thing. But but yeah that. And then
in sleep paralysis there's like a few common things people see.
The other one is like the old Hag, which is
like this woman sitting on you. And then this is
sort of the same thing, but like the mayor the
night This is like the origin for the term nightmare.

(26:50):
Is this thing sitting on you and holding you down.
But anyway, there's like, is it a horse? The mayor
is a horse? I think at one point it was
like a horse, yeah, kind of like demon thing. I
think that's what it might have been. Damn. But yeah,
it's a really old term. But they're like pretty much
every culture has a similar thing to this, and they're

(27:11):
all similar looking, like seeing this old woman on you
or in the case of the hat man, how widespread
that is? So circling back to the unconscious talk, if
it was just like the human unconscious whatever that means,
by the way, right generating this, you'd expect to see
a lot more variation, especially throughout time and culture. Like

(27:33):
I'd be very very surprised, you know, I just said
that the whole the origin of the term nightmare comes
from this phenomenon. You you would expect going back that
far that like fears would change enough. Why would we have.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Like why wouldn't it be uh tesla? You know, that's
what we get around. We don't get around in uh
on horses anymore. We get around, so like, wow, why
would it still be a horse? Why would it be
a guy with a big hat that like is out
of style people wear anymore?

Speaker 2 (28:02):
I would expect to see more like micro trends with it,
if that makes sense. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and between cultures
and stuff, so yeah, that's those are the kind of
things that interest me, you know. And and those two
things I did laugh off at first, but then kind
of reluctantly dug into them, like, oh, this is pretty
interesting actually and frightening. So I don't really know what

(28:25):
it is. It's funny that I I mean, I think
it's sort of a stupid name. I wanted to think
of another name for that episode besides Zaza, like it
killed me call it. But that's like, I don't know,
I think that's interesting though, when it's a scary thing
that like I'm you know, I'm I'm normally somebody that
would think it's completely stupid, but the story is compelling

(28:45):
enough that like pulls me to the other side, right,
And it's kind of a goofy sounding name, but this
is that I guess that makes it scarier in a way.
You're like, not Zaza. It is like something that like
you would kind of laugh at it first, you know, totally.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
I mean, I think that's kind of like the experience
of listening to your show, like I remember Last time
You're on was kind of like I think you were
just getting into like the Them series of episodes, and
like I'm I'm I'm very skeptical, Like I'm I'm one
of those people who like even though like Japan I'm Japanese,
there's like very rich ghost like you know, spooky culture

(29:25):
there that I'm like, nah, I'm not, I'm not seeing
any of this stuff. But like in listening to your show,
because I mean, like I remember when you're on last time,
you're sort of like I don't necessarily believe in everything
or at all. It's more just like it's it's really
interesting to hear these people describe these events that have
happened and that them experience them. Yeah, and them one

(29:47):
is by far one of the most fucking out there
things I've ever heard in my life. If you like,
give like a you know, like a three line description
of it so people kind of understand what I'm about to,
like get into here and real quick.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Before you were, before before we started recording, you were
had to answer a text message. I have to assume
it was from one of the interdimensional.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah, how do you know? How do you know? I
will say, interesting timing. The girl from that series is
visiting right now. She's in town. Some of the meta
in person, Yeah, a soul by meetup man. You could
look up. Yeah, maybe you'll see her walking around the neighborhood.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Yeah, but I mean yeah, like sort of give a
light breakdown, because I think it's really interesting to listen.
Whether or not you believe in this stuff or skeptical,
I think it's the The experience.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Of listening to it for me was very interesting. I'm
glad you liked it. Basically, it's about this girl in
Norway who is kind of feeling off and basically one
night while she's in college, sees this strange looking like
man in her room, almost like a ghost but not quite.

(30:52):
She's obviously freaked out, has a lot of really strange
physical sensations as well around this time, and tries to
power on with her life, but is ultimately just kind
of having anxiety about it and tweaking as you would expect.
So she calls her mom and hopes that her mom
will calm her down, tells her like, I saw this thing,

(31:14):
like I'm feeling all this stuff blah blah blah. But
instead of her mom calming her down. She was like,
I was afraid this was going to happen, and was like,
they're talking to you now, She's like what there we
go yep. But so she's like what And so her mom,
you know, tells her very briefly that she's been communicating

(31:35):
with these beings for like a long time and is
essentially like, come home to visit and we'll talk. And
at that point she finds out that the mom and
a girl from the mom's gym have been communicating with
what they think are interdimensional beings for a substantial amount
of time I forget how long. Yeah, And to make

(31:56):
to make it stranger, this girl from the gym is
the same age as soul Vi, and her and the
mom have like become very close to the point where
there she becomes like a third sister to them essentially.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, and like kind of doppelganger is or like they
have like a lot of.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Between them. Yeah. Yeah, So it's like and it gets
weirder from there, right, Yeah, it's to me, it's all
I always like that like start to the story is
what locked me in early on, and especially meeting soul Fi.
I'm like, I one hundred percent believe this girl. I mean,
it's not even a question of belief, you know, you
meet her and talk to her. It just like she's

(32:32):
a very straightforward person, right This clearly happened to her
and she doesn't know what it is.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
But that's the thing that like really fucked me up
about it now, because again I was like, I'm sure
there's got to be a way to explain all this,
But then I was trying to look deeper as to
what was pulling me in despite being so like logical,
when I like, when I listen to things like this,
and there is something I think because we live in

(32:57):
this like super dumbed down, like deeply disconnected world right now,
like our current like world, this modern world we're completely
disconnected from like you know, the land, from each other,
like our history and things like that, that to hear
somebody describe these sort of paranormal phenomena or experiences in

(33:19):
a way like sort of calls to something like that
there's something there's like there's a spirituality that we've lost
on some level as human beings that even if I
believe Soulvie, are not hearing this person speak about these
things that can't be explained that they don't understand. Is
like pulling at something I think much deeper, like in

(33:40):
the human experience that we just completely lack now, like,
especially because that's what colonialism does to most people, like
completely it's those things are seen as like pagan or
savage or whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
And the ritual and spirituality out of things, and it's
just like, this is a materialist universe. Here are the
laws that explain it. We know everything, more mystery to work.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Exactly, And I think there's a yearning on some level
that it surely just can't be all of this just
tangible shit. On some level, even if you're religious or
not that like, there is something that we feel on
a deeper level that we can't quite explain. And I
think that's why I really enjoy listening to the show
is because even then, even if I'm like, I don't
know if this actually happened, but the sensation of hearing

(34:23):
a person sort of sincerely describe a thing, whether they're
like very talented liars or just people who are really
being very sincere, there's just something that is undeniable that
I realize. I'm like, oh, man, like there's something about
it that is like I don't know like healing, or
there's a yearning that I didn't understand, like I had
deep within me, which is like trying to find sort

(34:45):
of like these sort of threads to something like that
isn't just tangible and just explainable like everything else has been.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
In mind, I like, I really really like that reaction,
And that's actually kind of like what I hope the reaction.
I hope people have to the show, or was hoping
they would have. And I think it's what why I
like this stuff, you know, where I wasn't super into it,
but I do think like when you hear something like that,
I find it comforting in a way, like it kind

(35:14):
of can make you feel small and like remind you that, oh, yeah,
we really don't know anything still, right, and especially when
like the world is crazy or your life is crazy
or anything. Just things feel out of control so often
in life, you know, I think there's there's an odd
comfort to uh, hearing the most extreme version of that

(35:36):
and being reminded like, oh yeah, like not only is
the world completely out of control, like it's always been
out of control, like we don't know anything, We're just
like kind of powerless, you know, And that's fine. It's
it's comforting knowing that there are these great, great mysteries
that maybe we'll understand one day, but it's okay to
not know because I mean, so I think I've served

(35:58):
my life being a skept like a real skeptic on uh,
supernatural things, And yet I wear specific hats or don't
wear specific hats based on what, like how a basketball
team that I like has performed, which is just I
think to your point about powerlessness, It's like that is
the thing I am completely unable to control, and so

(36:20):
I like invent this stupid way that I can control
it and like believe it with my body and not
my mind. But like fully, like I'm like, fuck, I
did something wrong on right.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Well, yeah, that's what's interesting too, because I remember like
a lot of people to like shows like yours or
other shows dealing with like paranormal phenomenas, Like they're people
who so deeply want to just explain why it isn't
like and it's just like and it's an unequivocal no,
this is fucking nonsense, And like I get that sort
of desire, But I think that's why I like I.

(36:52):
That's what I found very interesting about listening to the episode.
It's not me necessarily trying to figure out like where
are the where are the holes in this story, because like, sure,
I can be very analytical about those kinds of things,
but I think again, it's the idea of just that
that there is something we just can't explain and it's
and sure, maybe it's manifesting in these people saying like

(37:14):
I'm experiencing X, Y or Z, but like even knowing
someone is experiencing that, there's something like intoxicating about it too,
And I think maybe that could just be because I've
been I'm such a deep skeptic about stuff like this
where I find myself not having to be like does
this confirm my beliefs or does it completely blow them up?
I'm like finding this middle thing which it's like, no, man,

(37:35):
like there's something just much deeper, even if it's about
like it's not maybe necessarily interdimensional beings communicating, but we've
shut ourselves off to something that like I'm trying to
figure out how to reconnect to and not in like
a magical way, but just something that's a little bit
more outside of what is you know, sort of academically described.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Yeah, no, absolutely and I will say this, like, well,
first of all, as the host of this show and
somebody who wants people to just be able to like
listen and relax and like not being able to not
try to disprove everything. It is obviously frustrating, like that
type of personality who's like wants to quickly disprove things.
But I will also say that, like a lot of
this stuff, even if you don't like believe it all

(38:16):
the way, like a lot of times, like I don't
have a way to disprove it, and I try, right,
A lot of people are comfortable disproving something by just
like saying some bullshit and being okay with it not
being complete. Right. A lot of the ways people disprove
these things is just like throwing out some fucking stupid

(38:37):
shit they heard on Wikipedia or like a podcast one
time and just being like, oh, it's like this effect,
you know, like I heard about that one time. It's
like all right, And then if you really if you
really apply it and like pick it through, it doesn't
make sense, like wouldn't hold up in court, right, Like
you couldn't if you actually had to disprove it, like
up to the standards of like a jury, you know,

(38:58):
that would not work. Often times, there's all sorts of
weird little things people toss around, like mold. The person
had like black mold in their house. Maybe maybe it's
black mold in their house.

Speaker 3 (39:09):
It's just like, right, there's the fact that even someone
is experiencing the world like that. I think it's just
very Yeah, I would still be interested, but yeah, I
mean there's things like that that get tossed around as
if we even fully understand those and Jack not to
I'm not picking on you at all. I do this too,

(39:29):
But like I hear a lot about people saying like, oh,
it's just their unconscious playing tricks on them. It's like, well, dude,
that's not even we don't even know what the unconscious
mind is yet or the limitations of it, so it's
like that doesn't really I'm not satisfied with that explanation ever.
That gets tossed around a lot. It's like, well, we
don't know the function, the complete functions of the unconscious mind,

(39:53):
how it exists. We don't know if it's completely internal.
There's people who think that it could be partly external.
I think that it could come from somewhere else that
opens things up, that opens the floodgates.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, it's like young believed that there was like a
shared unconscious that we like had access to that exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
Yeah, that's kind of my interest in it is that
it's so unknown and which is just as magical the
concept of shared unconscious and then have been going about
to sort of bring all that to it.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Yeah, it's one of those things where like, uh, it's
sort of like the one oh one level is being
the Reddit atheist who just is like, oh, it's all fake.
But when you kind of like dig deeper, you kind
of like come out through the other side. At one
point you could kind of like keep digging through to
the other side over and over again with this stuff,
which is interesting. But yeah, like unconscious stuff, I mean

(40:48):
even bringing it back to the Ouiji board, it's like
if it is everybody's unconscious, like they're the movement on
the plan chet kind of like reaching this flow state
like that is actually what spiritualists would say is the
key to unlocking it, right. Yeah, the people who create
like basically popularize the wage aboard and like they don't
actually the spiritualists don't use that anymore. But like that

(41:11):
era that era of time is like what birth this
like the talking board. But yeah, those people that believe
it one hundred percent would say that that is the key,
like the group working together and that shared exactly. I
think it's so powerful and interesting. Yeah, it's it's cool.
I mean, and the longer you think about it, the

(41:31):
more you scratch your head with this stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Two of the characters like predict using Luigi, like predict
the day the exact day that like one or the
you know, uh Zozo predicts the exact day that their
boyfriends are both going to break up with them, And
I thought that was funny, so wild, Like.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
I forgot this either way, it's so interesting. I forget
if it made it into the episode or not. But
when she told me that, I was like, do you
think there's a chance that you guys just broke up
with you because you were addicted to playing with the
right We're obsessed with it? But like that is what
I think.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
It's like a drug where you're like connecting with this
thing in a way that is not available to you
in any in any other way. So like what whether
it's something outside or inside, I think it's you know,
powerful and interesting I'm way more powerful than anybody is
anyone who's doing it, like being like it's just their
unconscious mind making playing tricks on them that yeah, it's

(42:28):
not dismissive like that actually makes it more interesting to me,
I think.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, But with the Them series, people want clean answers.
There's a certain type of person that would want like
a clear answer to that, and they go looking for it.
I wanted to disprove that one I'm not disproven. I
thought I was going to that confident I would find something.
I would like turn over enough stones that I would

(42:52):
find clue right like, but I have not really even
formed a theory in my mind that like a hypothetical
way to disprove it all. I'm just kind of lost,
which is so spooky to me. And uh, yeah, I
don't know, that's what I mean. Same with the people
in it. They don't really know what it is whether.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
I think that's why I like even just like I
would have when I was listening to IM, like I
can't wait to hear what the answer is. But then again,
as again, like the sensation of listening to it isn't
necessarily that I'm thinking of it, Like logically it's more
I'm I think it's because because I'm skeptical that part
of that, like there's a certain cynicism that comes along

(43:34):
with that. Not that it's like bad or anything, but
this helped thaw that a bit and was just maybe
it's just for pure entertainment or pleasure that I could
just go, well, we don't know everything, and that's interesting
and I like it, and I'll keep it there.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
It's not I'm not going up calling.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
My mom and be like, yo, mom, we got to
get right with these interdimensional beamsat hear the clicking sounds
I'm making with my mouth, and I think that.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Sort of uncanny thing you're talking about of like the
experience of listening to the show is like the we
used to only learn and pass information on via the
oral tradition, and like that is learning like hearing things
as people experience them through their experience, and like that's
what I think is so powerful about the show, is

(44:15):
that like it's reconnecting you with like that way of
experiencing these things that you know, we we were just
like yeah, but written tradition better, and it's like no,
you're cutting out a whole, very compelling way of learning
about human experience.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Yeah, and I think like to kind of close out
the whole skepticism thing. You know, people who believe that
there's explanations for everything, it's just we simply don't would
be I would love to know if we did have
an explanation, like, let's just say for ghosts, Like people,
there are people who legitimately believe that, like ghosts have

(44:53):
been disproved and like like whether it's infrasound or you know,
mold poisoning or something, there are people who think that's
like case closed, this is what it is. It's just
simply not the case. And what I always say in
terms of that is, like, if there really was some
way to make a person see a ghost, I would

(45:13):
love to know. I would love to patent it. Should
you imagine the haunted house? You could do? Can you
imagine the bag from the Universal Studios contract? If I
figured out, like there's a sound frequency I could play
to like vibrate somebody's brain in a way that they
see a ghost. All right, I'm patenting that you won't.
You won't hid the podcast again, bro, I'll be James.

Speaker 3 (45:36):
Raytheon would be knocking at your door before Universal Studio. Absolutely, yeah,
let's take a quick break.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
We'll come back. We'll be right that sure, and we're back.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
And I wanted to talk about the ghost face mask
for Scream because.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
I we we have in the past looked at the
and it maybe we still will.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
They were we're kind of running out of time this week,
but didn't even do the like trending top top costumes
of the year thing. It's always been a bit of
bullshit where it's like, you know, they're just finding the
ones that are like popping up and in the news
so that they can like and then it's a mixture
of that with like it'll be like Spider oh yeah, yeah,

(46:31):
well Spider Man, but the like truly you know, we
we have thousands of trigger treaders come to our house
every year for the past six years, we've lived here
in a place that like has very like constant trigger treaters,
and without fail, every year, the most popular costume is

(46:54):
the Scream, the ghost faith mask. Like that is it.
And it's like, I don't know, I was a little
bit surprised, Like I don't know, I knew the screen
movies were popular, but it's like from eight starting at
age four up people are just wearing Scream masks. So
I feel like there's just something about that mask that

(47:16):
really connects with the national share consciousness. Like I've always
thought that Michael Myers is the scariest, coolest Halloween mask. Yeah,
but Scream demolishes Michael Myers in terms of like popularity.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
So I think I got it. I got some ideas.
I think maybe yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
So yeah, And on Wikipedia, Wikipedia can confirm since the
appearance of ghost Face and Scream, the costume has become
the most worn and sold costume for Halloween in the
United States.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Douglas, you a Halloween fan? Do you dressing?

Speaker 6 (47:51):
I like Halloween? I dressed up as a Bavarian chocolateeer
this year, and before that I was a pineapple. Nothing,
nothing too scary. I keep it light on Halloween, but
nothing is scarier than a three foot child in a
Scream costume.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
Scream or Michael Myers too, Oh either or true foot
Michael Myers is hilarious.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Michael Myers.

Speaker 6 (48:14):
I saw that at UCB one time, and that was
a great show.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
My my Harold team. Michael Myers.

Speaker 6 (48:23):
Yeah, but no, I mean there is something. It's I
think it comes back to Van goh, the of it all.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
It is monk.

Speaker 6 (48:33):
Yes, it's memordial, it's deep. No, everyone has felt the
scream in their heart and so yeah, that's what I
feel like.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
I feel like it's connecting because so one of the
theories of like masks is that, like, you know, like
Michael Myers is the most neutral mask. It's like it's expressionless,
and I feel like that's what's scary about it, you know,
is it's just this like blank face that you can
both that both it's like creepy to have something stalking

(49:04):
you that like never makes an expression, but also you
can project whatever onto it, you know, like you can
project your own scary feelings. Where scream is like the
or the ghost face mask is the opposite of that.
It is the most expressive facial expression like possible, and

(49:25):
they just really like nailed it with Yeah. I mean
they so a lot of people point out, like you did,
they do seem to be borrowing from the Edward Monk Scream,
which is a famous painting because from the time I
was painted in the late nineteenth century, I think it
symbolized the existential angst and anxiety that people were facing

(49:49):
with the onset of the the technical the Industrial Revolution, Wait.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Till World War One? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, with World War One the face. The face seems
to be saying, coming from a deep existential horror and
asking the question, what's up.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
World War one? World War one? Dude, dang influenza fuck?

Speaker 3 (50:14):
I mean, I don't know if to me the reason
I think the Scream mask is the least scary of
the masks, and that's why it's so the embrace is
so easy because you look at it and it looks
kind of like a It looks like a decoration you see,
like when Disney makes Disneyland look all spooky like and

(50:34):
it's one of the ghosts where it's like, oh, it's
a ghost and it's like scary, but it's not like menacing.
And I think a lot of it comes from like
the film, so like.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah, it is like ironic too.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Like that's another thing that people have pointed out that
it's like post you know, Scream is a very postmodern
movie where it's commenting on horror movies and the rules
of horror movies, and like they have literal characters inside
it talking about the rules of horror movies and so
like the mask is both like can can be seen
as like expressing horror, but it can also it almost

(51:05):
seems like it's mocking. Yeah, like it exactly sarcastically being like,
oh no, like doing a Kevin from Home alone.

Speaker 2 (51:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (51:14):
And in the movie, I think there's even a bunch
of jump scares that end up being a haha, I
was messing with you man yea in the movie, and
I think that actually helps it be scarier because you
don't know when it's gonna be the real one. And
there's so many parts in the movie where people are like, Okay,
stop messing around, come on, take it off, and then

(51:34):
it's like, oh no, watch.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
You yeah right, oh no, it's the guy with the
very specific voice changer.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
I mean the like I feel like that Michael Myers
feels like otherworldly almost, and you know his character is otherworldly,
like he kind of can't be killed and it's just
this like force of evil that keeps.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Coming from you for you.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Where's the screen movies which are like the most that
the most of the box office of any like slasher
horror movies. I think the first three ones, at least,
the bad guys are always just like on some Scooby
Doo shit.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
You know, it's.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
Always just like I've pulled off the mask and revealed
that it's you know, a real person from the movie
with a grudge and a complicated backstory doing this because
they've yeah, usually they've been ruined by the world.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
But I do feel like that is, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
There's something very human about both who the killers actually
are in the screen movies, but also like the mask
is like kind of very like embracing human emotion and
human horror and.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
You know, all of that.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
So there's like, which makes sense like that at a
time when we've like kind of mostly I think left
behind the idea that like there is another worldly horror
that is going to do us in like that it's
the devil that's going to do it, and now we're
just like people are bash. Yeah, that like makes sense
that this would be the mask we go with.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
I think there's like a comfort argument too, because think
about all the shitty, fucking rubber masks that we were
subjected to in the eighties and nineties prior to Scream,
and they were like stinky inside of basketball smelling rubber
faces or like I mean, they're still popular now, but
like a lot of them.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Were like those in my near future unfortunately.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
And like a lot of like the like scary ones
were like fucked up and kind of scary. You're like, oh, bro,
if I like, if I had that in my room,
I just wouldn't want to really look at it, you know.
And the scream mask a little more comfortably, were like
a black hood of put the mask on, and it's
I think again, it's just the fact that it's less menacing.
I think appeals to children, and because it's not like

(53:44):
it's not bloody or anything or has like you know,
like it's like a mutant face or whatever. It's like
silly ghost mask. But also the scream like to your point,
Douglas is because like you know, Billy Loomis and whatever
the fuck Math the other guy was called in the
first movie, he's like teenagers fucking around with the mask.
It kind of has that like so sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,

(54:05):
sorry sorry sorry sorry. Yeah, Victor's given it to me too.
Sorry for the spoilers. I should have said that it
wasn't Billy Loomis, But like, I think there's like a
fun to it that also makes it unpredictable, you know
what I mean, or like you don't like, so it
really is, like Mike Myers is like you can kind
of project your own intent on it.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
It's the scream.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
The ghost face mask starts from a place that feels
a little more innocent, and then from there it's like,
it's really up to you.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
How fucked up you want this thing to be?

Speaker 1 (54:30):
Yeah, and to be killed by something that's making the
scared face that you're making is kind of like it's
mocking you, you know what I mean. The origin this
is a quote from a Slash Film article from I
think this is what.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Yeah. Wes Craven, or one of the makers behind the film.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Say they were doing a location scout for like one
of the places they shot it. They saw this mask
it must have presumably it was around Halloween, and we're like,
what about this? And then this quote says no one
could agree on a mask. And I remember we were
in a location scout and we found ghost face in
a box of stuff in a garage. Weird that you
were location scouting and just like just muddling through their shit.

(55:11):
Wes Craven immediately looked at it and said, this is
like the famous screen painting, and so we took that
to our production and we said, riff on this, make
something like this. They must have done twenty different designs,
every one of them was rejected by the studio, and
finally we were like, why don't we just get the
rights to the mask? And we have a drawing in

(55:31):
the dock of like what some of the things they
did looked like. And they look like fucking garbage pail kids.
They look like shit, it's so bad. Yeah, really great.

Speaker 6 (55:42):
Half the brain exposed like no, yeah, and not as breathable.
I mean, to Miles's point, children love a breathable mask,
and these would have been a rubber basketball shit hole.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Yeah exactly, yes, steam steam cook your dome wearing a
fucking dumb anyway. Wait, so who's the person who has
the right That person must be fucking raking into Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
It was like somebody from a Halloween mask creator who
like got the got the rights. Yeah, so fun World
a company called fun World that did like a series
of masks. So the screen mask was meant to like
kind of be flowy and spooky and like go with
your standard ghost sheet costume, and so like its eyes

(56:23):
were like a little bit more like wavy.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
Yeah, turn that cund outfit. The clan outfit into a
ghost outfit with yeah, exactly, ghost up. This clan outfit
basically got all these damn clan outfits I do. But
the origin story. First of all, the house that they
were scouting was apparently a house from a famous Hitchcock
movie that I'm not that familiar with, Okay, Hitchcock's Shadow

(56:50):
of a Doubt. And they found it in.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
A box, Like this is how it would exist in
a Goosebumps tale of a haunted mask that like comes
out to like possess people. Is like, they find it
in a box in a garage somewhere, nobody knows who
like designed it, and they're just like try and like
copy this, and its power is just like so undeniable
that it can't be altered and that it goes from

(57:13):
like that garage box to like movie screens to literally
like every other face on Halloween night. Like if you know,
we were talking to Douglas, we had the host of
a podcast called Other World on earlier this week and
just talking about like the way that these ideas, whether
they're like from the unconscious or like these powerful energies

(57:37):
can like come out and like if if ghost Face
is like representing something real or like otherworldly or like
unconscious or something like if that's secretly the face of Zozo.
To people who listen to that episode trying to get out,
it has like so profoundly and thoroughly won and like
in a way that is exactly how it would happen

(57:57):
in like a Goosebumps book. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, but yeah,
the somebody got real real lucky. Apparently the TV show
tried to like alter it because they didn't have the
rights like there, and so MTV made the decision to
redesign the mask for the new series, and it sucks.

(58:18):
It's just it's like a neutral mask from like the theater,
but it with like a blowjob mouth, like a mouth
made to get.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
It looks so it looks like something from like, uh,
what's the word on, like the time of like Cortisans
in Italy or something like a weird Morcelin. It's like
not scary. It looks like it looks like bad decor
in an old person's house.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
I can't be scared by like things that like any
horror movie that happens in the like deep in that period,
like a different period of history, Like I just can't
it doesn't scare me. Like there there's that uh I forget,
like one that took place in Venice that I think
had Kenneth Brana attached a couple of years back that

(59:04):
Oh god, I don't know, man, I don't give a
fuck about this. Yeah, I mean just talking in Venice. Yeah,
just I think just show them trying to go to
the bathroom back then. That's horrifying enough.

Speaker 6 (59:17):
No, like maybe the Phantom of the Opera would wear this,
you know, as he's approaching in the catacombs or something
like that. I say, just give fun World the money.
I mean, they nailed it. They fucking ate with that one.
They nailed it.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
They channeled something deep and dark about humanity, maybe by
copying one of the most famous paintings of the past
three hundred years, but the original Emo King, Original Emo King,
the Scream paint.

Speaker 3 (59:45):
Wow, this is so people are so into the original
mask that apparently fun World started altering it a little
bit that there were like change dot Org petitions. We're like,
bring back the first generation mask and people are saying
the original molds are gone, but I'm sure you can
make another one, because.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
So the original you can't even find the og.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
I think if you look for like there, no, there
are plenty, I think there. I think this is for
people who are so in like. There have been different iterations.
The one we see right now is obviously readily available,
but I think there's a different one that people are like, No,
I want this. The Gen one is what I keep
seeing on the internet. Bring back the Gen one mask.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Jesus, wow. The Schnyder cut of masks.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
There's apparently a couple scenes, I think the in the
first scream where it was pre them negotiating the rights
to get the original mask, and so there you can
see that the mask is like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
A little bit altered. It was like the version that
they were going to go with if they couldn't get
the rights.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
Oh dude, the Gen one. Okay, Gen one is different
than the one we see in the movie. This is
Gen one with like sort of more triangularish eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
Yeah. That one sucks. Shit, it looks too Yeah. That
one looks like if like I was hanging out with
Michael Jackson, I did too many mushrooms. Yeah yeah, why
is it smiling? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Yeah, I mean the original, the one that showed up
in the movie is fucking great. And yeah, that's that's
the one that I ride for. And that's the one
that it seems like everybody is obsessed with. And the
crusette of Halloween masks. You only need one. You have
it your whole life. You're scary, your whole life.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
Yeah, seasoned, you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Know this mask has been seeping microplastics into the faces
of this family for three generations now, and it's now
your turn.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Ye, and now we're all a little quirky.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
I think the first year that we did Halloween here
and like we saw so many screen masks. I was like,
oh yeah, I think there's like a.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
Scream reboot coming. Wow, that's really like it must be
popular with people.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
And it's only grown since then, Like it's just like
more and more, and now there's like a lot of them.
You can like press a little button and it like
sprays blood onto the mask.

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Oh yeah, those on it. That's that's too much dip
on your chip. Yes, it's simple, too much tip on
your chip.

Speaker 7 (01:02:03):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
Say all right, that's gonna do it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
For this week's weekly Zeitgeist, please like and review the show.
If you like the show, uh means the world de Miles.
He he needs your validation, folks. I hope you're having
a great.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Weekend and I will talk to him Monday.

Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
Bye.