Billy McFarland On His Time In Prison, Fyre Fest 2, Wanting Charity Fight With JaRule, + More
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
What up you guys. It's way up at Angela Yee.
I'm Angela Yee and Billy McFarlane is here with us today.
Now if you don't know who Billy is, he is
the founder of the Fire Festival, which is coming back. Yes,
and we've seen a couple of different documentaries about it.
But you know, you've been through a lot since we
first met. Like you said about seven years ago.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yes, you were in the Fire office seven years ago,
down and Tribeca. Yeah, you said your office used to
be next door, so.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I was actually all right, So let's break it down
from the beginning. Because Fire, when you guys first started,
it was really an app, right.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
We tried to build an app to allow anybody to
book music artists for appearances, so kind of like picture
like an Airbnb or an Uber for talent.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, which was, by the way, a great idea initially, right,
because that's what it was supposed to be first.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
And it was distracted with the festival.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, But I think people don't realize that they just
know the Fire Festival. They don't know that there was
bookings that were already going on, right, So you guys
had our already prior to the.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, before the festival. Yeah, as you know, it's so
hard to book talent, and seven years later it still is. Right, Like,
especially in the music industry, there are so many managers
and agents in various middlemen. So we tried to create
a tech platform that would cut through that and allow
people like me, who was a young entrepreneur to actually
get in touch with and book talent for good business opportunities.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, that's actually why initially was having a meeting at
the office because it was initially just about the app
about booking talent and things like that, and then the
Fire festival idea came up. Now whose idea was that It.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Was actually a high school friend of mine. We literally
took this small four seater airplane to the Bahamas. We
ran a fuel landed on a remote island and we
were there and he said, you should totally do a
music festival here for all of your customers. So it's
his fault, No.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay, well, high school friends, we'll have these grand ideas
exactly and prior to that, because we do know you
as an entrepreneur before actually starting Fire, you've had other
bench before that. Right, where's by the way, after this
all happened. People went back to those ventures and they
were like, oh, he has been a frauds there all
this time. He did X, Y, and Z. But talk
(02:09):
about the ventures that you had as an entrepreneur before
launching fire Sure.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Started my first company in seventh grade. I had three
full time employees at thirteen, and I got in trouble
when one of my employees sent me an invitation to
his wedding. My parents opened up the mail and it's like,
why is this grown man and you're thirteen years old?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Was that business?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I was a web posting company, so I helped local
businesses put their website online. This is back in like
two thousand damn five, so way back in the early
internet days, okay, and fast forward. I really got my
start in New York was building a company called Magnesis,
which was trying to make it black card for young
kids in New York City. Okay, And we created this
like thick hunk of black metal and we would take
your blue Chase card or your Red Bank of America
(02:49):
card and reissue it as this like really cool black
Magneesis card and then had all these benefits and experiences
based around the card. One of them were these private concerts,
and that's kind of how I started meeting all these
music artists, by trying to book talent to perform as
a way to kind of give back to all my customers.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Okay, And I think one of the main things to
understand is that this whole situation didn't start off because
people are like, oh, you know, he was scamming people.
But it started with good intentions. It wasn't like, Okay,
I'm planning to do something not the right way. You
were planning to do something that you thought would be
something innovative and creative. You guys did things even like
(03:24):
with wristbands where you wouldn't have to have cash at
the festival. It would be these wristbands that you could
use to pay for everything while you were there. It
was planes that were bringing people in. But things ended
up going left. Now as you guys were planning this festival,
it felt like one of the one things that I
saw on the documentary was that it was happening too fast,
right And you even were told like, I think you
(03:46):
need to postpone this and do it at a later date.
Why did you not say maybe I should?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I think that was the worst honest mistake I made
was trying to build a city in four months on
a remote island, and I was twenty four years old.
I was like yeah, and wanted it all like now,
and if someone said it takes two weeks, it's not
like ten years from me at that time, right, I
didn't know how to slow down. I didn't know how
to be patient, and I didn't know how to help
listen to help. Ultimately, the crime was actually lying to investors.
(04:11):
It wasn't the festival itself. So even if the festival
was awesome, which clearly it wasn't, I still would have
gone to jail because I lied to investors.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So you valued the company I think at ninety million
or something.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It wasn't worth that so and it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Wasn't worth that. The fact though, that investors really believed
in you at twenty four years old, what do you
think that comes from? Because I know how hard it
is to try to get investors, you know, and just
to be honest. And with everything going on with the
Fearless Fund, shout out to Ariansmment. We were talking about
this today. They have a VC fund that really specifically
targets black women and it's really hard Black women get
(04:44):
the least lowest amount of VC funding, and it's really
hard when we're trying to get money and you know,
get people to invest in us. But you were able
to get people to invest in millions of dollars. What
do you think it is about you that people were
really willing to buy into what it is that you
were doing.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I think the biggest misconception is that I woke up
one day said our company is worth all this money
and people gave me money. That's not how it worked.
I think the crime was actually probably worse than that.
I had businesses since I was a teenager, So I
had built up trust with let's say a dozen or
so investors over literally ten years, and they saw small wins,
they saw small failures along the way, and after ten years,
(05:19):
what it came to them and said, hey, guys, like
this is going to be the biggest business. Yet they
weren't in a position to question me because they had
seen all the work for literally a decade. So I
think what I really did was I abused the trust
that these people had in me. And that's probably worse
than meeting someone like hey, like, here's a fake spreadsheet.
So I think it was more about building a relationship
for ten years, which is fucking hard, and then violating
(05:41):
it all by lying.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, And then you did end up getting sentenced to
go to jail.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yes, and you.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Served four years, is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Serve four years?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And I saw that you actually spend time in solitary
confinement as well, so even in jail, you still were
violator getting in trouble the rule. So talk about slitary
confinement and what that experience was, Like.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I did a podcast from the prison paid phone.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Did you know you couldn't do that?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
It wasn't really against the rules, which actually made it
worse because they didn't know what to do. So okay,
so did the podcast. The trailer came out online, and
an hour after the trailer came out, they came and
grabbed me, like, yeah, this is not happened.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well damn yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So I did seven months in solitary for the podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Seven months.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I think the worst part was like, you didn't break
any rules, but you can't really do this either, so
we're not really sure what to do. So you're just
gonna sit here for a while until you fixed.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Its a long time, seven months. I think they're trying
to make it illegal to make people be in solitary
confinement for periods of time.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I hope, so, I hope so that long.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Now I want to talk to you about your experience there,
your first day going in, when you had to turn
yourself in. What was that like for you? Mentally? Everything
that was going on really hard?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
And I think like my biggest shock of prison was
how behind it is culturally. I think it felt like
you know, the movies from the nineteen forties, where like,
you know, even like the lines for food, it's like
Hispanic people here, white people here, black people here, and
you can't violate that. And like, as someone who grew
up in like as a young kid in New York,
which is probably you know, more liberal than the rest
(07:00):
of the country, like, experiencing that was that was like
the biggest cultural shock for me. I felt like I
was in a movie from eighty years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
And for you going on it like when you know
that day I'm going in, what was going on in
your head.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I didn't know how long it was going to be
when I was arrested, So I think it was more
of the fear of the unknown was probably like the biggest,
the biggest factor, And at that time, I was trying
to survive by the day, like literally with the fire
fest food, wake up in the morning, and if someone
tell me how much money we had to pay our
various employees or vendors that day or else the FESTIVALI
be failed. So I was living in this like do
or die by the day mentality. So I couldn't fathom
(07:35):
like what one year, two years would be. And then
when I was ultimately sentenced to six years, I just
couldn't picture like how long that really was.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You know what I was thinking too at the time
of the festival, because I remember initially talking to one
of the people who actually worked in the office, right,
like I said, I had the meeting, and he was like,
I think, maybe don't come the first weekend, come the
second week Really I know that no, because they did
want me to. Like initially, the conversations were about influencing marketing,
and I want to talk about influencing marketing with you
(08:02):
in a second two because I feel like fire kind
of changed the game when it comes to influencing marketing
and the rules around it. So we'll talk about that
in a second. But you know, he was like, listen,
I want you to come, but I think you should
come to second weekend because it's feeling like a little
I'm not sure what's going to happen. When did you
realize this is kind of snowballing and it's not going
(08:23):
to work.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I think, great question, and like people don't believe me.
But it was the night before the festival was when
I first realized this probably wasn't going to work. A
big storm came in the night before.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Oh that's why I know. The FEMA tents got wet.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
All the times got wet, the mattresses got wet, and
we had our core, like you know, ten people there
who were all more senior, kind of like manager types,
and then I look around and it seems like they
all drank this magic potion and all fell asleep at
exactly the same time, like passed down the couches and
the carpets and the tables. I'm like wow, Like you
could just like literally feel the energy getting dragged out
of the room. And that was the first moment where
(08:57):
I knew this is not going to go as planned.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And then I think you had a lot of artists
that were booked to come and perform. I think blink
one two. Were they the first ones to pull out?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
They were the first ones to cantle.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Okay, so when they canceled, what were your thoughts when
that happened? Where you and were you like? Okay, maybe
we should tell these other artists you know, it's not happening.
And did this is a bunch of questions and did
people get paid?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So I think there were thirty two total artists, good lord.
Thirty of them were paid in full and the last
two were paid for the first weekend, So every artist
is paid. I think we paid like five and a
half ish million to artists to perform, so they were
all they were all paid.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And I kind of remember Kanye was supposed to be there.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
So good music was technically born of the headliners. Okay,
we do not advertise Kanye specifically, but.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
No, listen, I remember I remember some things about cash
being paid, and you know, so.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Back in the back of my bad, my bad days, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I mean, and that would have been a huge, you know,
get for you obviously if that could have potentially happened.
All right, So influence and marketing, So another big story
that came out of this whole festival was that these
influencers ended up. I don't know if they got sued,
but there was a lot of conversations about people getting paid.
I remember they said Kylie Jenner got like two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars for one post. All right, and
(10:11):
so I want to know what your thoughts are now,
because it really did change the game as far as
we've seen it happen with cryptocurrency, where there were certain
celebrities who were endorsing things and they're held accountable for
these products that they're endorsing. So when this happened, a
lot of people were holding these influencers accountable. You guys
had this whole campaign and you had some of the
top people you know, posting on social media with the
(10:34):
most followers. Now, tell me now, in retrospect, when you
think back to how everything happened, you know you're out
on the other side of it. What are your thoughts
about influence and marketing and how that needs to be regulated.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I think it's very hard for talent to judge an opportunity,
right if all these large name investors are on board,
all these large brands are sponsoring it, I don't know
how the talent who sees one hundred opportunities a day
is supposed to do better due diligence than these other
financial partners. Okay, so I think one of the hardest
things for me sitting in jail and like the local sheriff,
(11:04):
I have to come to the federal person to give
me myles. I don't know my court papers once a week,
updating me in the case. I think the biggest surprise
for me was I, at least emotionally, felt like they
were going after the wrong people to you know, sue
an influencer who was paid to do something, and they
saw all these other names who were approving it, like
it's really tough for that person to know better. I
felt bad for the talent when I think the onus
(11:27):
is not on them to do the due diligence to
that level.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
But I guess the hashtag add and regulations like that,
that's all changed now. That is yeah, that was that.
You think that was directly because of I.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Think officially the FDC officially passed a law after but
in reality, this is back in twenty sixteen when we
did the Orange Heild campaign. That was a wild wild
West days of Instagram marketing. Right there weren't all these
micro influencers. There wasn't like TikTok at this scale. There
was a couple of thousand celebrities everybody followed. That was
pretty much like how it worked. Now there's what a
(11:56):
million smaller influencers, so the game is totally changed. I
think the the rules have caught up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Now we all know. Of course, jah Wu Wiship partner.
A lot of people in the hip hop community had
jokes about that with the fire festival and when it
is the last time you guys have even had a conversation.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I think when I was on shortly after I was arrested,
when I was on bail, and yeah, my lawyer is like, you.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Have to stop talking to Okay. So it wasn't anything like.
The conversation wasn't anything where it was he angry. You know, like,
do you hold yourself accountable or do you feel like
because you guys were partners, do you feel like he
is equally responsible or do you feel like, well, the
onus is kind of on you as the person who
conceived this and then brought him on.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I think responsibility definitely on me. I was certainly in
charge of the fundraising, so okay, it wasn't like other
people were like, hey, let's like make up numbers to
raise money like that was that was all on me, right, Yeah,
at the end of the day, it's been tough. Though.
I did call Matt to a like a charity boxing
match to pay back people who are in combat.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I had my first fight ever but five bays Aico
last Thursday. So my head still hurts. And you did win,
by the way, somehow.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
You did get a win. So there's a win right there.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And Joe Rogan was front row and the audience.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
To me about that, So you did this karate com
but how much did you win from that?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It wasn't crazy, It wasn't crazy, wasn't crazy. But I'm
giving a large portion of it back to people who
are owed. I'm giving my full knockout bonus back to
people whore owed. I knew I was going to jail,
and I wanted to get ready for jail. So I
was introduced through a friend to this incredible Muay Thai coach,
which is basically a form of kickboxing.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So you're trying to get ready for jail.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Trying to be ready for jail, you had to do
some on somebody this great coach took me in and
taught me for like six months before jail, and then
as soon as I get out, I call him up
and he's like, if you're gonna do this for a
good cause, I'll help you.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Well, thank god you won. I know you kind of
fight like me, I'm not gonna Now how did they
treat you when you got to jail, because clearly, like
you were, their story was a very celebrity story. So
when you got to jail, people knew who you were.
So how was it as far as interacting with people?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
And actually took me like six months to learn the rules.
It's like, all right, you're supposed to sit here, you're
supposed to walk there. It took me a little bit
to understand that. You know, when in Rome, right after
kind of abide by the cultures that are there. I
think it was fine. I think I met a surprisingly
number of really good people who I didn't expect to meet,
and I think overall, like, if you take away the
(14:21):
people who I hurt, it was definitely the best experience
of my life. But you can't like, yeah, you can't
weigh that with the harm that was caused.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You know, I think people felt the worst for the
people on the island who lost money, you know, the caterer,
and I know they did a fundraiser and did manage
to raise some money, and they did give some of
those funds back to some of the other people, because
there were definitely a lot of people who put their
all into you know, and also people who thought they
were going to make money. So sometimes like when you
(14:49):
know money's about to come in, it's a great thing
for you. But one person also who I feel like
and I don't know if he still works with you
to this day, Andy King.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, we're still in touch. I think Andy did fundraiser
for the Bahamas and raised a ton of money, which
is awesome. But going back to your first point there,
like that was my biggest learning is that fraud is
the victims aren't always clear, right. It's like you might
have invested in you were hurt, but there were ten
people who were relying on you who were hurt because
of that that like I don't know, And initially it
(15:18):
was like, oh, I never met that person or I
didn't know that person, how can they be mad at me?
But like now that I've seen, like it's just not
just the immediate victims, like the sphere of people who
are hurt as much larger. I think that's what makes
the crime so bad.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, I mean it was devastating to see that. It
was sad like when I you know, I definitely watched
both documentaries because it was it was really interesting to
me to see how this whole thing unfolded. I actually
knew people who went there.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Oh really, hey, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
One of my good friends, Jason, he was sending me
like video footage of everything that was happening. He was
actually at the party where there was no water but
lots of champagne. Okay, good, So I know Andy King
got some of the water through, but he was there
and he was showing me. He was sending me footage
of them like partying, dancing. It looked like it was
about to be a good time. And then and he
(16:03):
was like, we're asking for water, but they don't have water. Oh,
they have a champagne And people were like literally dancing
on the tables. But that was before all the festivities
were set to begin. But let's go back to Andy
for a second. When you saw his interview that he
did on that, I think it was was it the
Netflix documentary that he was on. Is that a true story?
You asked him?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
So I learned about this story in jail. When a
prison guard comes up to me, he goes, hey, Billy,
never cost me Billy, So I knew something was wrong
right away. He's like, did you did you pay goutt
it to suck some officials dick for water? And I
look at him like you had ten heads. So he's like,
you could tell me it's okay. So I'm looking at
this guy. I'm all nervous, like what's going on? So
I think it was more of a game with telephone
(16:44):
that got taken the case content an.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
You think, somebody said, and maybe you. I don't know,
but that's a crazy story for people who didn't see it.
Andy King was like, we had to get this Avion
water through. It was going to cost one hundred and
seventy five thousand dollars and Billy was like, I needed
to go down and suck some dick to get this
water through. And he said he went and got some
mouth washed crazy and was ready to do it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Gladly did not happen. Supposedly.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The one thing I will say, you need that man
to work for you no matter what. He is definitely
a person that is and the way that he told
the story, I was like, this is I think absolutely insane.
Now you're trying to do a fire festival too.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
If there were ten Andy King's fire never would have failed.
So we have to do it, make the work.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So Fire Festival Part two. You've already sold tickets.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yes, we did it. We did a pre sale for
Fire Festival too. It's going to be in the Caribbean
next year. We're announcing the date and location this summer.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
The biggest difference this time is that I'm not in charge,
which kind of sucks.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Right, You're not having your hands on the money. It's
not going through.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You can't touch the money. I can't touch the logistics.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Is that regulation or is that you deciding let me
remove myself.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Probably I think it was our concept, but we had
to get it approved. So got it approved. There is
like a third party festival company who all they do
is festivals who's actually in charge. They base like, you know,
half fifty one percent, you know, we have forty nine percent,
and they call the shots. But I still get to
do like the marketing and hopefully some like the wild
adventures on the on site.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Now, some people would have been ashamed after something like
this happened, right, but you have faced it head on
and you've actually you actually did interviews for the Hulu
documentary you know as well, now, Durant, And you got
paid for that because I remember reading.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I got paid for the Hulu doc Yet you got
paid for that.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
So you did you do that because you were like,
I'm getting a check and I need this money to
be able to.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, at the time, I was on bail. I was
going to jail soon and I.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Needed cash, okay, So you needed the cash.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Game like one hundred fifty two undre k whatever it was,
and I needed the money.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So I did an interview, okay. And you know, at
any point did you feel like I need to do
my own documentary from my own point of view?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Absolutely, So we are filming one right now.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Oh Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I did not learn my lesson because I'm not in
charge of it. So it's like a third party company
doing it. But I think they are more fair. Hopefully
they're more fair.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So which one did you like better? Because there was
a debate.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I didn't watch them, you didn't watch it, and watch them.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Would you ever, you can get just too trauma.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
For you to I think I would still focus on
the wrong things, like if someone said something and agree
with it, but oh I didn't say that, or I
didn't do that. I think I'd lose sight of like
what the actual issues were, just get mad about little things.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
So, and you did have the marketing company, fuck Jerry,
Yeah that was working with you. What's your relationship with
them now? Because they did actually one of the document
the Netflix documentary.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, they produced a documentary. I don't like them. I
think they did not They did not do it fairly.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So okay, but you didn't see it, so.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I didn't see it. But you know, we had certain
agreements in place that they didn't live up to in
my opinion.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Okay, well, fair enough. I mean that can't be easy.
But when you think about doing your own documentary, what
angle are you going to take from that?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
So the new documentary we've been doing is basically it
started the day got out of jail and trying to
get back to work. And I think it started with
this dream that I would leave get a phone and
have one hundred people who were going to take my
phone call, and the reality was. It wasn't like that.
There was maybe two or three supporters on the first day.
And it's been two years now, so it's kind of
been this grind to get back to life. I think
we're finally there. We have a good foundation, we have
(20:00):
a real company doing the festival. Our Broadway musical is
getting made, which can be pretty cool. And yeah, we're
getting back to.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I saw that you have a Broadway musical, and that's
another third party.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
That's a third party.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, okay, plays all the time. I just went to
one a couple of days ago. Nice, I went to
go see Home, and I'm about to go see the
Whiz and of course the Notebook and all of those.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
You'll come with me for the first for the first premier.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Book Say What and Why a musical.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think it's pretty cool festival. It's like a mini
festival every day, right.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
And it's going to be rain intense for us.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
They actually have some funny ideas how I can mess
things up like here and there, so it's going to
be cool. But they're like a real Broadway team and
I have very little involvement in that. But it'll be
fun to go to.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
How hard was it for you to find a team
to work with you on the new festival hard.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
It took a year and a half to get there.
I think we had a lot of people interested, and
they were interested for one reason, not because it made
because of the brand name of Fire, And since twenty
sixteen it's been the most talked about music festival in
the world. Obviously mostly negative, but I think people realized
if you could write that, it's really hard to recreate
all of that brand awareness. But ultimately, like you know,
(21:05):
I scared them away, or you know, you know, the
history scared them away, or they weren't only to take
their risk, So it took some time. I think people
want to see me not behave like an asshole when
I got out of jail, and it just took, you know,
building that trust for a year and a half to
get there.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
How are you different now?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I think really focusing on relationships. I loved in like
the pre life before jail. I just like loved having
a lot of people, whether it was employees or friends
or associates, and everything almost felt very like surface level
and transactional, and like going back to the biggest surprise
in prison where I met you three or four lifelong friends.
I think I'm finding more happiness out of like having
(21:42):
a smaller group of people who I really trust rather
than you know, one hundred people who are there for
a good time, as was I right, like, and yeah,
so I think I'm trying to like remove that transactional
like large group of people mentality and just like go
deep with a smaller number.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, because if I think about it, I remember seeing
posts of you taking a lot of to the Bahamas
to get ready for this festival, and there was definitely
a lot of people, yeah, enjoying themselves and coming with you,
And so it does make you look at things differently.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
When found I found self worth by trying to be
cool to a large umber of people, whereas now I'm
trying to find it by being like trusted by ten people,
which I think is like way way cooler.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So there were definitely people who stood by your side
when you went to prison, for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I think the weirdest thing was there was the people
who didn't expect, Like if I had a guess before
this happen, like, hey, if you're going to jail, who
would still be there? I probably would have gotten every
single person wrong who was still there a few childhood friends.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
You know, the one who suggested the festival, and.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I'm not him actually he's ironically God, So that's funny.
Me like a few childhood friends, like a few work friends.
Like it was like a weird definitely a surprising mix.
But you know, you have to respect those who did that.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Now, as far as you're a personal financial situation, what
is that like for you?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Now? Yeah, it's definitely tough. So every month I have
to pay back to restitution, which were the investors who
are lost, and then there are probably twenty people who
aren't counted in that restitution too that it make miss
you every month. So it's like there's a lot of
people out there. Do half my time as marketing work,
so I help like brands, some young artists with their marketing.
The other half the times all working in the fire projects.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Speaking of Witch, let's talk about this Sleepy Hallow and
Chef G. You are the one that brought them out
for this Trump rally in the Bronx. Is that true? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I think, like I just love bringing different people together,
and all my best moments in life, like outside of
the mistakes were made when people from different backgrounds and
different experiences came together. Those are the best ideas, those
are the best relationships.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Please explain to me how that happened, though, Like, what
was that conversation like, because as we know, Donald Trump
himself has a lot going on when it comes to court,
and you know, for me personally, that's a scary thing
to me. So I want to know what that conversation
was like for you to get them to come out
where they are already supportive of Trump and you were like, look,
let's go do this rally, you know, And I want
(23:52):
to know.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
The Trump rally was the first time a president's has
done a rally in the Bronx since Ronald Reagan. So
I thought it was kind of like this historic call.
Whatever your politics are, it's probably this historical New York moment,
and I think a great way to capitalize and kind
of make history was to bring you know, New York
rap to the Bronx. There were probably thirty five artists
(24:15):
who asked me to come to that rally.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Really, so well, I think people are so enamored with
Donald Trump still, especially given everything that's been happening, and
you know, we just saw this whole hush money trial
and he was just convicted and found guilty and a
lot of things that he said and done in the past.
But what is it that you think leads people to
(24:37):
believe that, you know, he is the person they would
win to rally behind.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I think I'm not educated enough on the politics side,
but on the cultural side, like people like being part
of history is exciting, and like there is a movement.
I think people aren't happy with, you know, how things
have gone over the past couple of years, and they
want to be heard. So if you can go and
go to a rally, or if you can go get
to online and you can be heard, I think it's
(25:01):
a great opportunity for a lot of artists and like
it helps him amplify their message. But I was shocked.
I think I made a couple of phone calls then
my literally my phone blew up, and there was dozens
of artists who really wanted to share their.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Support, Like who else wanted to show that I'm not going.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
To drop people don't want to, but I think like
every single drill artist in New York was wanted to
be there.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Oh wow, that is very interesting to me. So you
still live in New York now?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I still live in New York.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yes, okay, So what are the restrictions and the rules
for you when it comes to traveling, when it comes
to what you can and can't do?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
You still have probation of probation. I can't leave New
York without permission. So like, for example, the fight last
week was in Austin, so I did to get permission
to go and fight. Okay, and then I think another
year or so left the probation.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Okay, are you going to fight again?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I'm definitely gonna fight again. I'd love to fight. Job
rule like that fight would pay so many people back,
Like you have no idea the kind of money that
would raise for the Bahamas or restitution. I would give
every penny of it back.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Did you ask him to reach it?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I called him out of academics his podcast like a
year ago. I'm like hating response and.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
The other thing that you did though. I saw you
saying that you would love for fifty cents to perform.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Fifty has to reform at fire for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Now you don't think that's something that's gonna make Ja
rul be like that's you know, because that's obviously poking
a bear, you know how much they don't like each other.
That leads me to believe that you don't like ja Rule.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I'm not going to say that, but I think you know,
fifty cent, you have an open invitation to come and
perform a fire too.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Oh my gosh, fifty Sorry, no, we never fight fifty
so you think it could be rule?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I think fifty centold train me for the job, roll fight.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Oh my gosh, Well, listen, what else do you have
going on? Because I saw you also post something marketing
deal that you closed that was something big.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, I just doing a lot of marketing work to
pay the bills. Uh yeah. Fire Festival is more like
the long term game for better or worse. It's helping
a lot of like venture capital backed companies and a
lot of startups with their marketing stuff. But really excited
for fire too. I'm excited to get back into the
pit and fight again.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I'm excited to take you to the Broadway musical when
that when that air? Gosh?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
All right, so let's talk about so everything that we
talked about, So you have a Broadway musical coming doesn't
have a title.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yet, I don't think so, at least didn't tell me so.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Okay, fire Festival the musical, I guess it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
The documentary is called After the Fire.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Okay? Oh, after the Fire is the documentary? How far
along is that?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Wrapping it up now? I think the fight was probably
the closing scene for that first season of The Duck Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So then you have the marketing obviously, you have the
Fire Festival too happening. You're going to announce that this summer.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
When is it taking place next year in the Caribbean?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Okay? Next year in the Caribbean? Okay? And then what else?
Did we miss? Anything else?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Pretty much?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It all right, Well, that's a lot going on for
you right now. So it's going to be interesting to
see the whole bounce back. But I was really interested
to see I saw on a podcast you were also
talking about how you view people in prison too now
after having been there and personally met people, yes, who
you just feel like a lot of times, like you said,
people get backed into a corner and they do things,
(27:50):
you know, and that definitely has changed your perception.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
No matter who you are, if you are desperate, like
you are going to make a mistake and I don't
care educated, not educated, rich, poor like a despert person
those stupid things, And unfortunately, most people in prison were
desperate and they made a mistake, whether it was selling
drugs or you know, committing fraud, and like it's like
hard to say which is worse at that point. And
I think like society probably has that wrong. I think
(28:14):
most of the critics, if they were in the same
shoes as the people who I met in prison, but
are probably done the same thing.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You can't even say what you would do sitution worse. Right, Yeah,
people's circumstances do matter a lot. What does your family
think about all of this? You know, when you're a
family gatherings, you know, when they see you, what do
they say.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Super tough. I'm from like a suburban New Jersey town,
not inside the city, so they don't, like, they don't
have exposure to the prison world. They don't have exposure to,
you know, the music world. They don't have exposure to
the fighting world. So a lot of it just.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Seems to everybody.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, exactly, it's like a little little out of the
ordinary from no matter what we do. So I've already
confused them enough.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
All right, Well, good, well, thank you so much for
joining us. This was an interesting conversation for me, just
because it does feel like you do have remorse for
the people who did suffer. I will say, when everything
was happening, I think that people didn't feel bad for
people who bought the tickets because they're like, oh, these rich,
you know, mostly white people got on a plane, paid
all this money to go someplace and it didn't work out.
(29:12):
And so I think people did but we did feel
remorse for the people who suffered from the island, who
had kind of put their all into it, because it
kind of was like they were calling it the Hunger Games. Yeah,
you know, for people that were out there and it
was hard for people to get off the island, you know,
when they were second. But I did see you say
that some people got married and hooked up.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It's just crazy. I met three people, like randomly in
the streets who said they met at fire Festival and
got married because of it, like one of the invityment
of their wedding.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh my god. Well, you know, people can make.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Good but the most important I hate to pick favorites,
but I think the Behavians who who are owed and
worked like that is my priority. My god, I probably
spend most of my week discussing and dealing with that.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Can you go there?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I don't know. I definitely would need permission from the
US side to travel internationally. I'm not sure about the
Bahama side.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Would you want to go?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
As soon as my probation is up, we'll go, okay,
all right?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
A year, yeah, all right, Well, thank you so much
for joining us today. I'm going to be paying attention
to everything that you're doing. All right, don't let us down. Billy.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
At the next fire office, he'll be there to open
it back up.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
The oh god, I might be bad luck right, Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It's way up up
What up you guys. It's way up at Angela Yee.
I'm Angela Yee and Billy McFarlane is here with us today.
Now if you don't know who Billy is, he is
the founder of the Fire Festival, which is coming back. Yes,
and we've seen a couple of different documentaries about it.
But you know, you've been through a lot since we
first met. Like you said about seven years ago.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yes, you were in the Fire office seven years ago,
down and Tribeca. Yeah, you said your office used to
be next door, so.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I was actually all right, So let's break it down
from the beginning. Because Fire, when you guys first started,
it was really an app, right.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
We tried to build an app to allow anybody to
book music artists for appearances, so kind of like picture
like an Airbnb or an Uber for talent.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, which was, by the way, a great idea initially, right,
because that's what it was supposed to be first.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
And it was distracted with the festival.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, But I think people don't realize that they just
know the Fire Festival. They don't know that there was
bookings that were already going on, right, So you guys
had our already prior to the.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah, before the festival. Yeah, as you know, it's so
hard to book talent, and seven years later it still is. Right, Like,
especially in the music industry, there are so many managers
and agents in various middlemen. So we tried to create
a tech platform that would cut through that and allow
people like me, who was a young entrepreneur to actually
get in touch with and book talent for good business opportunities.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, that's actually why initially was having a meeting at
the office because it was initially just about the app
about booking talent and things like that, and then the
Fire festival idea came up. Now whose idea was that It.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Was actually a high school friend of mine. We literally
took this small four seater airplane to the Bahamas. We
ran a fuel landed on a remote island and we
were there and he said, you should totally do a
music festival here for all of your customers. So it's
his fault, No.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay, well, high school friends, we'll have these grand ideas
exactly and prior to that, because we do know you
as an entrepreneur before actually starting Fire, you've had other
bench before that. Right, where's by the way, after this
all happened. People went back to those ventures and they
were like, oh, he has been a frauds there all
this time. He did X, Y, and Z. But talk
(02:09):
about the ventures that you had as an entrepreneur before
launching fire Sure.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Started my first company in seventh grade. I had three
full time employees at thirteen, and I got in trouble
when one of my employees sent me an invitation to
his wedding. My parents opened up the mail and it's like,
why is this grown man and you're thirteen years old?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Was that business?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I was a web posting company, so I helped local
businesses put their website online. This is back in like
two thousand damn five, so way back in the early
internet days, okay, and fast forward. I really got my
start in New York was building a company called Magnesis,
which was trying to make it black card for young
kids in New York City. Okay, And we created this
like thick hunk of black metal and we would take
your blue Chase card or your Red Bank of America
(02:49):
card and reissue it as this like really cool black
Magneesis card and then had all these benefits and experiences
based around the card. One of them were these private concerts,
and that's kind of how I started meeting all these
music artists, by trying to book talent to perform as
a way to kind of give back to all my customers.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Okay, And I think one of the main things to
understand is that this whole situation didn't start off because
people are like, oh, you know, he was scamming people.
But it started with good intentions. It wasn't like, Okay,
I'm planning to do something not the right way. You
were planning to do something that you thought would be
something innovative and creative. You guys did things even like
(03:24):
with wristbands where you wouldn't have to have cash at
the festival. It would be these wristbands that you could
use to pay for everything while you were there. It
was planes that were bringing people in. But things ended
up going left. Now as you guys were planning this festival,
it felt like one of the one things that I
saw on the documentary was that it was happening too fast,
right And you even were told like, I think you
(03:46):
need to postpone this and do it at a later date.
Why did you not say maybe I should?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I think that was the worst honest mistake I made
was trying to build a city in four months on
a remote island, and I was twenty four years old.
I was like yeah, and wanted it all like now,
and if someone said it takes two weeks, it's not
like ten years from me at that time, right, I
didn't know how to slow down. I didn't know how
to be patient, and I didn't know how to help
listen to help. Ultimately, the crime was actually lying to investors.
(04:11):
It wasn't the festival itself. So even if the festival
was awesome, which clearly it wasn't, I still would have
gone to jail because I lied to investors.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
So you valued the company I think at ninety million
or something.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It wasn't worth that so and it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Wasn't worth that. The fact though, that investors really believed
in you at twenty four years old, what do you
think that comes from? Because I know how hard it
is to try to get investors, you know, and just
to be honest. And with everything going on with the
Fearless Fund, shout out to Ariansmment. We were talking about
this today. They have a VC fund that really specifically
targets black women and it's really hard Black women get
(04:44):
the least lowest amount of VC funding, and it's really
hard when we're trying to get money and you know,
get people to invest in us. But you were able
to get people to invest in millions of dollars. What
do you think it is about you that people were
really willing to buy into what it is that you
were doing.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
I think the biggest misconception is that I woke up
one day said our company is worth all this money
and people gave me money. That's not how it worked.
I think the crime was actually probably worse than that.
I had businesses since I was a teenager, So I
had built up trust with let's say a dozen or
so investors over literally ten years, and they saw small wins,
they saw small failures along the way, and after ten years,
(05:19):
what it came to them and said, hey, guys, like
this is going to be the biggest business. Yet they
weren't in a position to question me because they had
seen all the work for literally a decade. So I
think what I really did was I abused the trust
that these people had in me. And that's probably worse
than meeting someone like hey, like, here's a fake spreadsheet.
So I think it was more about building a relationship
for ten years, which is fucking hard, and then violating
(05:41):
it all by lying.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, And then you did end up getting sentenced to
go to jail.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yes, and you.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Served four years, is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Serve four years?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And I saw that you actually spend time in solitary
confinement as well, so even in jail, you still were
violator getting in trouble the rule. So talk about slitary
confinement and what that experience was, Like.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I did a podcast from the prison paid phone.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Did you know you couldn't do that?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
It wasn't really against the rules, which actually made it
worse because they didn't know what to do. So okay,
so did the podcast. The trailer came out online, and
an hour after the trailer came out, they came and
grabbed me, like, yeah, this is not happened.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Well damn yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So I did seven months in solitary for the podcast.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Seven months.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
I think the worst part was like, you didn't break
any rules, but you can't really do this either, so
we're not really sure what to do. So you're just
gonna sit here for a while until you fixed.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Its a long time, seven months. I think they're trying
to make it illegal to make people be in solitary
confinement for periods of time.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
I hope, so, I hope so that long.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Now I want to talk to you about your experience there,
your first day going in, when you had to turn
yourself in. What was that like for you? Mentally? Everything
that was going on really hard?
Speaker 2 (06:39):
And I think like my biggest shock of prison was
how behind it is culturally. I think it felt like
you know, the movies from the nineteen forties, where like,
you know, even like the lines for food, it's like
Hispanic people here, white people here, black people here, and
you can't violate that. And like, as someone who grew
up in like as a young kid in New York,
which is probably you know, more liberal than the rest
(07:00):
of the country, like, experiencing that was that was like
the biggest cultural shock for me. I felt like I
was in a movie from eighty years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
And for you going on it like when you know
that day I'm going in, what was going on in
your head.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
I didn't know how long it was going to be
when I was arrested, So I think it was more
of the fear of the unknown was probably like the biggest,
the biggest factor, And at that time, I was trying
to survive by the day, like literally with the fire
fest food, wake up in the morning, and if someone
tell me how much money we had to pay our
various employees or vendors that day or else the FESTIVALI
be failed. So I was living in this like do
or die by the day mentality. So I couldn't fathom
(07:35):
like what one year, two years would be. And then
when I was ultimately sentenced to six years, I just
couldn't picture like how long that really was.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You know what I was thinking too at the time
of the festival, because I remember initially talking to one
of the people who actually worked in the office, right,
like I said, I had the meeting, and he was like,
I think, maybe don't come the first weekend, come the
second week Really I know that no, because they did
want me to. Like initially, the conversations were about influencing marketing,
and I want to talk about influencing marketing with you
(08:02):
in a second two because I feel like fire kind
of changed the game when it comes to influencing marketing
and the rules around it. So we'll talk about that
in a second. But you know, he was like, listen,
I want you to come, but I think you should
come to second weekend because it's feeling like a little
I'm not sure what's going to happen. When did you
realize this is kind of snowballing and it's not going
(08:23):
to work.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
I think, great question, and like people don't believe me.
But it was the night before the festival was when
I first realized this probably wasn't going to work. A
big storm came in the night before.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Oh that's why I know. The FEMA tents got wet.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
All the times got wet, the mattresses got wet, and
we had our core, like you know, ten people there
who were all more senior, kind of like manager types,
and then I look around and it seems like they
all drank this magic potion and all fell asleep at
exactly the same time, like passed down the couches and
the carpets and the tables. I'm like wow, Like you
could just like literally feel the energy getting dragged out
of the room. And that was the first moment where
(08:57):
I knew this is not going to go as planned.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
And then I think you had a lot of artists
that were booked to come and perform. I think blink
one two. Were they the first ones to pull out?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
They were the first ones to cantle.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Okay, so when they canceled, what were your thoughts when
that happened? Where you and were you like? Okay, maybe
we should tell these other artists you know, it's not happening.
And did this is a bunch of questions and did
people get paid?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So I think there were thirty two total artists, good lord.
Thirty of them were paid in full and the last
two were paid for the first weekend, So every artist
is paid. I think we paid like five and a
half ish million to artists to perform, so they were
all they were all paid.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And I kind of remember Kanye was supposed to be there.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
So good music was technically born of the headliners. Okay,
we do not advertise Kanye specifically, but.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
No, listen, I remember I remember some things about cash
being paid, and you know, so.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Back in the back of my bad, my bad days, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
I mean, and that would have been a huge, you know,
get for you obviously if that could have potentially happened.
All right, So influence and marketing, So another big story
that came out of this whole festival was that these
influencers ended up. I don't know if they got sued,
but there was a lot of conversations about people getting paid.
I remember they said Kylie Jenner got like two hundred
and fifty thousand dollars for one post. All right, and
(10:11):
so I want to know what your thoughts are now,
because it really did change the game as far as
we've seen it happen with cryptocurrency, where there were certain
celebrities who were endorsing things and they're held accountable for
these products that they're endorsing. So when this happened, a
lot of people were holding these influencers accountable. You guys
had this whole campaign and you had some of the
top people you know, posting on social media with the
(10:34):
most followers. Now, tell me now, in retrospect, when you
think back to how everything happened, you know you're out
on the other side of it. What are your thoughts
about influence and marketing and how that needs to be regulated.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I think it's very hard for talent to judge an opportunity,
right if all these large name investors are on board,
all these large brands are sponsoring it, I don't know
how the talent who sees one hundred opportunities a day
is supposed to do better due diligence than these other
financial partners. Okay, so I think one of the hardest
things for me sitting in jail and like the local sheriff,
(11:04):
I have to come to the federal person to give
me myles. I don't know my court papers once a week,
updating me in the case. I think the biggest surprise
for me was I, at least emotionally, felt like they
were going after the wrong people to you know, sue
an influencer who was paid to do something, and they
saw all these other names who were approving it, like
it's really tough for that person to know better. I
felt bad for the talent when I think the onus
(11:27):
is not on them to do the due diligence to
that level.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
But I guess the hashtag add and regulations like that,
that's all changed now. That is yeah, that was that.
You think that was directly because of I.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
Think officially the FDC officially passed a law after but
in reality, this is back in twenty sixteen when we
did the Orange Heild campaign. That was a wild wild
West days of Instagram marketing. Right there weren't all these
micro influencers. There wasn't like TikTok at this scale. There
was a couple of thousand celebrities everybody followed. That was
pretty much like how it worked. Now there's what a
(11:56):
million smaller influencers, so the game is totally changed. I
think the the rules have caught up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Now we all know. Of course, jah Wu Wiship partner.
A lot of people in the hip hop community had
jokes about that with the fire festival and when it
is the last time you guys have even had a conversation.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
I think when I was on shortly after I was arrested,
when I was on bail, and yeah, my lawyer is like, you.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Have to stop talking to Okay. So it wasn't anything like.
The conversation wasn't anything where it was he angry. You know, like,
do you hold yourself accountable or do you feel like
because you guys were partners, do you feel like he
is equally responsible or do you feel like, well, the
onus is kind of on you as the person who
conceived this and then brought him on.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I think responsibility definitely on me. I was certainly in
charge of the fundraising, so okay, it wasn't like other
people were like, hey, let's like make up numbers to
raise money like that was that was all on me, right, Yeah,
at the end of the day, it's been tough. Though.
I did call Matt to a like a charity boxing
match to pay back people who are in combat.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I had my first fight ever but five bays Aico
last Thursday. So my head still hurts. And you did win,
by the way, somehow.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
You did get a win. So there's a win right there.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
And Joe Rogan was front row and the audience.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
To me about that, So you did this karate com
but how much did you win from that?
Speaker 2 (13:13):
It wasn't crazy, It wasn't crazy, wasn't crazy. But I'm
giving a large portion of it back to people who
are owed. I'm giving my full knockout bonus back to
people whore owed. I knew I was going to jail,
and I wanted to get ready for jail. So I
was introduced through a friend to this incredible Muay Thai coach,
which is basically a form of kickboxing.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So you're trying to get ready for jail.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Trying to be ready for jail, you had to do
some on somebody this great coach took me in and
taught me for like six months before jail, and then
as soon as I get out, I call him up
and he's like, if you're gonna do this for a
good cause, I'll help you.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Well, thank god you won. I know you kind of
fight like me, I'm not gonna Now how did they
treat you when you got to jail, because clearly, like
you were, their story was a very celebrity story. So
when you got to jail, people knew who you were.
So how was it as far as interacting with people?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
And actually took me like six months to learn the rules.
It's like, all right, you're supposed to sit here, you're
supposed to walk there. It took me a little bit
to understand that. You know, when in Rome, right after
kind of abide by the cultures that are there. I
think it was fine. I think I met a surprisingly
number of really good people who I didn't expect to meet,
and I think overall, like, if you take away the
(14:21):
people who I hurt, it was definitely the best experience
of my life. But you can't like, yeah, you can't
weigh that with the harm that was caused.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You know, I think people felt the worst for the
people on the island who lost money, you know, the caterer,
and I know they did a fundraiser and did manage
to raise some money, and they did give some of
those funds back to some of the other people, because
there were definitely a lot of people who put their
all into you know, and also people who thought they
were going to make money. So sometimes like when you
(14:49):
know money's about to come in, it's a great thing
for you. But one person also who I feel like
and I don't know if he still works with you
to this day, Andy King.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah, we're still in touch. I think Andy did fundraiser
for the Bahamas and raised a ton of money, which
is awesome. But going back to your first point there,
like that was my biggest learning is that fraud is
the victims aren't always clear, right. It's like you might
have invested in you were hurt, but there were ten
people who were relying on you who were hurt because
of that that like I don't know, And initially it
(15:18):
was like, oh, I never met that person or I
didn't know that person, how can they be mad at me?
But like now that I've seen, like it's just not
just the immediate victims, like the sphere of people who
are hurt as much larger. I think that's what makes
the crime so bad.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, I mean it was devastating to see that. It
was sad like when I you know, I definitely watched
both documentaries because it was it was really interesting to
me to see how this whole thing unfolded. I actually
knew people who went there.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Oh really, hey, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
One of my good friends, Jason, he was sending me
like video footage of everything that was happening. He was
actually at the party where there was no water but
lots of champagne. Okay, good, So I know Andy King
got some of the water through, but he was there
and he was showing me. He was sending me footage
of them like partying, dancing. It looked like it was
about to be a good time. And then and he
(16:03):
was like, we're asking for water, but they don't have water. Oh,
they have a champagne And people were like literally dancing
on the tables. But that was before all the festivities
were set to begin. But let's go back to Andy
for a second. When you saw his interview that he
did on that, I think it was was it the
Netflix documentary that he was on. Is that a true story?
You asked him?
Speaker 2 (16:23):
So I learned about this story in jail. When a
prison guard comes up to me, he goes, hey, Billy,
never cost me Billy, So I knew something was wrong
right away. He's like, did you did you pay goutt
it to suck some officials dick for water? And I
look at him like you had ten heads. So he's like,
you could tell me it's okay. So I'm looking at
this guy. I'm all nervous, like what's going on? So
I think it was more of a game with telephone
(16:44):
that got taken the case content an.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
You think, somebody said, and maybe you. I don't know,
but that's a crazy story for people who didn't see it.
Andy King was like, we had to get this Avion
water through. It was going to cost one hundred and
seventy five thousand dollars and Billy was like, I needed
to go down and suck some dick to get this
water through. And he said he went and got some
mouth washed crazy and was ready to do it.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Gladly did not happen. Supposedly.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The one thing I will say, you need that man
to work for you no matter what. He is definitely
a person that is and the way that he told
the story, I was like, this is I think absolutely insane.
Now you're trying to do a fire festival too.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
If there were ten Andy King's fire never would have failed.
So we have to do it, make the work.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So Fire Festival Part two. You've already sold tickets.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yes, we did it. We did a pre sale for
Fire Festival too. It's going to be in the Caribbean
next year. We're announcing the date and location this summer.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
The biggest difference this time is that I'm not in charge,
which kind of sucks.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Right, You're not having your hands on the money. It's
not going through.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You can't touch the money. I can't touch the logistics.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Is that regulation or is that you deciding let me
remove myself.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Probably I think it was our concept, but we had
to get it approved. So got it approved. There is
like a third party festival company who all they do
is festivals who's actually in charge. They base like, you know,
half fifty one percent, you know, we have forty nine percent,
and they call the shots. But I still get to
do like the marketing and hopefully some like the wild
adventures on the on site.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Now, some people would have been ashamed after something like
this happened, right, but you have faced it head on
and you've actually you actually did interviews for the Hulu
documentary you know as well, now, Durant, And you got
paid for that because I remember reading.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
I got paid for the Hulu doc Yet you got
paid for that.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
So you did you do that because you were like,
I'm getting a check and I need this money to
be able to.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yeah, at the time, I was on bail. I was
going to jail soon and I.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Needed cash, okay, So you needed the cash.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Game like one hundred fifty two undre k whatever it was,
and I needed the money.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
So I did an interview, okay. And you know, at
any point did you feel like I need to do
my own documentary from my own point of view?
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Absolutely, So we are filming one right now.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Oh Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
I did not learn my lesson because I'm not in
charge of it. So it's like a third party company
doing it. But I think they are more fair. Hopefully
they're more fair.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So which one did you like better? Because there was
a debate.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
I didn't watch them, you didn't watch it, and watch them.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Would you ever, you can get just too trauma.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
For you to I think I would still focus on
the wrong things, like if someone said something and agree
with it, but oh I didn't say that, or I
didn't do that. I think I'd lose sight of like
what the actual issues were, just get mad about little things.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
So, and you did have the marketing company, fuck Jerry,
Yeah that was working with you. What's your relationship with
them now? Because they did actually one of the document
the Netflix documentary.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, they produced a documentary. I don't like them. I
think they did not They did not do it fairly.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
So okay, but you didn't see it, so.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
I didn't see it. But you know, we had certain
agreements in place that they didn't live up to in
my opinion.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Okay, well, fair enough. I mean that can't be easy.
But when you think about doing your own documentary, what
angle are you going to take from that?
Speaker 2 (19:38):
So the new documentary we've been doing is basically it
started the day got out of jail and trying to
get back to work. And I think it started with
this dream that I would leave get a phone and
have one hundred people who were going to take my
phone call, and the reality was. It wasn't like that.
There was maybe two or three supporters on the first day.
And it's been two years now, so it's kind of
been this grind to get back to life. I think
we're finally there. We have a good foundation, we have
(20:00):
a real company doing the festival. Our Broadway musical is
getting made, which can be pretty cool. And yeah, we're
getting back to.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I saw that you have a Broadway musical, and that's
another third party.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
That's a third party.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, okay, plays all the time. I just went to
one a couple of days ago. Nice, I went to
go see Home, and I'm about to go see the
Whiz and of course the Notebook and all of those.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
You'll come with me for the first for the first premier.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
Book Say What and Why a musical.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I think it's pretty cool festival. It's like a mini
festival every day, right.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
And it's going to be rain intense for us.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
They actually have some funny ideas how I can mess
things up like here and there, so it's going to
be cool. But they're like a real Broadway team and
I have very little involvement in that. But it'll be
fun to go to.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
How hard was it for you to find a team
to work with you on the new festival hard.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
It took a year and a half to get there.
I think we had a lot of people interested, and
they were interested for one reason, not because it made
because of the brand name of Fire, And since twenty
sixteen it's been the most talked about music festival in
the world. Obviously mostly negative, but I think people realized
if you could write that, it's really hard to recreate
all of that brand awareness. But ultimately, like you know,
(21:05):
I scared them away, or you know, you know, the
history scared them away, or they weren't only to take
their risk, So it took some time. I think people
want to see me not behave like an asshole when
I got out of jail, and it just took, you know,
building that trust for a year and a half to
get there.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
How are you different now?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
I think really focusing on relationships. I loved in like
the pre life before jail. I just like loved having
a lot of people, whether it was employees or friends
or associates, and everything almost felt very like surface level
and transactional, and like going back to the biggest surprise
in prison where I met you three or four lifelong friends.
I think I'm finding more happiness out of like having
(21:42):
a smaller group of people who I really trust rather
than you know, one hundred people who are there for
a good time, as was I right, like, and yeah,
so I think I'm trying to like remove that transactional
like large group of people mentality and just like go
deep with a smaller number.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, because if I think about it, I remember seeing
posts of you taking a lot of to the Bahamas
to get ready for this festival, and there was definitely
a lot of people, yeah, enjoying themselves and coming with you,
And so it does make you look at things differently.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
When found I found self worth by trying to be
cool to a large umber of people, whereas now I'm
trying to find it by being like trusted by ten people,
which I think is like way way cooler.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
So there were definitely people who stood by your side
when you went to prison, for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
I think the weirdest thing was there was the people
who didn't expect, Like if I had a guess before
this happen, like, hey, if you're going to jail, who
would still be there? I probably would have gotten every
single person wrong who was still there a few childhood friends.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
You know, the one who suggested the festival, and.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
I'm not him actually he's ironically God, So that's funny.
Me like a few childhood friends, like a few work friends.
Like it was like a weird definitely a surprising mix.
But you know, you have to respect those who did that.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Now, as far as you're a personal financial situation, what
is that like for you?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Now? Yeah, it's definitely tough. So every month I have
to pay back to restitution, which were the investors who
are lost, and then there are probably twenty people who
aren't counted in that restitution too that it make miss
you every month. So it's like there's a lot of
people out there. Do half my time as marketing work,
so I help like brands, some young artists with their marketing.
The other half the times all working in the fire projects.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Speaking of Witch, let's talk about this Sleepy Hallow and
Chef G. You are the one that brought them out
for this Trump rally in the Bronx. Is that true? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I think, like I just love bringing different people together,
and all my best moments in life, like outside of
the mistakes were made when people from different backgrounds and
different experiences came together. Those are the best ideas, those
are the best relationships.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Please explain to me how that happened, though, Like, what
was that conversation like, because as we know, Donald Trump
himself has a lot going on when it comes to court,
and you know, for me personally, that's a scary thing
to me. So I want to know what that conversation
was like for you to get them to come out
where they are already supportive of Trump and you were like, look,
let's go do this rally, you know, And I want
(23:52):
to know.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
The Trump rally was the first time a president's has
done a rally in the Bronx since Ronald Reagan. So
I thought it was kind of like this historic call.
Whatever your politics are, it's probably this historical New York moment,
and I think a great way to capitalize and kind
of make history was to bring you know, New York
rap to the Bronx. There were probably thirty five artists
(24:15):
who asked me to come to that rally.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Really, so well, I think people are so enamored with
Donald Trump still, especially given everything that's been happening, and
you know, we just saw this whole hush money trial
and he was just convicted and found guilty and a
lot of things that he said and done in the past.
But what is it that you think leads people to
(24:37):
believe that, you know, he is the person they would
win to rally behind.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
I think I'm not educated enough on the politics side,
but on the cultural side, like people like being part
of history is exciting, and like there is a movement.
I think people aren't happy with, you know, how things
have gone over the past couple of years, and they
want to be heard. So if you can go and
go to a rally, or if you can go get
to online and you can be heard, I think it's
(25:01):
a great opportunity for a lot of artists and like
it helps him amplify their message. But I was shocked.
I think I made a couple of phone calls then
my literally my phone blew up, and there was dozens
of artists who really wanted to share their.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Support, Like who else wanted to show that I'm not going.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
To drop people don't want to, but I think like
every single drill artist in New York was wanted to
be there.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Oh wow, that is very interesting to me. So you
still live in New York now?
Speaker 2 (25:22):
I still live in New York.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yes, okay, So what are the restrictions and the rules
for you when it comes to traveling, when it comes
to what you can and can't do?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
You still have probation of probation. I can't leave New
York without permission. So like, for example, the fight last
week was in Austin, so I did to get permission
to go and fight. Okay, and then I think another
year or so left the probation.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Okay, are you going to fight again?
Speaker 2 (25:42):
I'm definitely gonna fight again. I'd love to fight. Job
rule like that fight would pay so many people back,
Like you have no idea the kind of money that
would raise for the Bahamas or restitution. I would give
every penny of it back.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Did you ask him to reach it?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
I called him out of academics his podcast like a
year ago. I'm like hating response and.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
The other thing that you did though. I saw you
saying that you would love for fifty cents to perform.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Fifty has to reform at fire for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Now you don't think that's something that's gonna make Ja
rul be like that's you know, because that's obviously poking
a bear, you know how much they don't like each other.
That leads me to believe that you don't like ja Rule.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
I'm not going to say that, but I think you know,
fifty cent, you have an open invitation to come and
perform a fire too.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Oh my gosh, fifty Sorry, no, we never fight fifty
so you think it could be rule?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I think fifty centold train me for the job, roll fight.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Oh my gosh, Well, listen, what else do you have
going on? Because I saw you also post something marketing
deal that you closed that was something big.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah, I just doing a lot of marketing work to
pay the bills. Uh yeah. Fire Festival is more like
the long term game for better or worse. It's helping
a lot of like venture capital backed companies and a
lot of startups with their marketing stuff. But really excited
for fire too. I'm excited to get back into the
pit and fight again.
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
I'm excited to take you to the Broadway musical when
that when that air? Gosh?
Speaker 1 (26:54):
All right, so let's talk about so everything that we
talked about, So you have a Broadway musical coming doesn't
have a title.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yet, I don't think so, at least didn't tell me so.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Okay, fire Festival the musical, I guess it makes sense.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
The documentary is called After the Fire.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Okay? Oh, after the Fire is the documentary? How far
along is that?
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Wrapping it up now? I think the fight was probably
the closing scene for that first season of The Duck Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So then you have the marketing obviously, you have the
Fire Festival too happening. You're going to announce that this summer.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
When is it taking place next year in the Caribbean?
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Okay? Next year in the Caribbean? Okay? And then what else?
Did we miss? Anything else?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Pretty much?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
It all right, Well, that's a lot going on for
you right now. So it's going to be interesting to
see the whole bounce back. But I was really interested
to see I saw on a podcast you were also
talking about how you view people in prison too now
after having been there and personally met people, yes, who
you just feel like a lot of times, like you said,
people get backed into a corner and they do things,
(27:50):
you know, and that definitely has changed your perception.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
No matter who you are, if you are desperate, like
you are going to make a mistake and I don't
care educated, not educated, rich, poor like a despert person
those stupid things, And unfortunately, most people in prison were
desperate and they made a mistake, whether it was selling
drugs or you know, committing fraud, and like it's like
hard to say which is worse at that point. And
I think like society probably has that wrong. I think
(28:14):
most of the critics, if they were in the same
shoes as the people who I met in prison, but
are probably done the same thing.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
You can't even say what you would do sitution worse. Right, Yeah,
people's circumstances do matter a lot. What does your family
think about all of this? You know, when you're a
family gatherings, you know, when they see you, what do
they say.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Super tough. I'm from like a suburban New Jersey town,
not inside the city, so they don't, like, they don't
have exposure to the prison world. They don't have exposure to,
you know, the music world. They don't have exposure to
the fighting world. So a lot of it just.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Seems to everybody.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Yeah, exactly, it's like a little little out of the
ordinary from no matter what we do. So I've already
confused them enough.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
All right, Well, good, well, thank you so much for
joining us. This was an interesting conversation for me, just
because it does feel like you do have remorse for
the people who did suffer. I will say, when everything
was happening, I think that people didn't feel bad for
people who bought the tickets because they're like, oh, these rich,
you know, mostly white people got on a plane, paid
all this money to go someplace and it didn't work out.
(29:12):
And so I think people did but we did feel
remorse for the people who suffered from the island, who
had kind of put their all into it, because it
kind of was like they were calling it the Hunger Games. Yeah,
you know, for people that were out there and it
was hard for people to get off the island, you know,
when they were second. But I did see you say
that some people got married and hooked up.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
It's just crazy. I met three people, like randomly in
the streets who said they met at fire Festival and
got married because of it, like one of the invityment
of their wedding.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Oh my god. Well, you know, people can make.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Good but the most important I hate to pick favorites,
but I think the Behavians who who are owed and
worked like that is my priority. My god, I probably
spend most of my week discussing and dealing with that.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Can you go there?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I don't know. I definitely would need permission from the
US side to travel internationally. I'm not sure about the
Bahama side.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Would you want to go?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
As soon as my probation is up, we'll go, okay,
all right?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
A year, yeah, all right, Well, thank you so much
for joining us today. I'm going to be paying attention
to everything that you're doing. All right, don't let us down. Billy.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
At the next fire office, he'll be there to open
it back up.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
The oh god, I might be bad luck right, Thank
you so much.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
It's way up up
Way Up With Angela Yee News
Host
Angela Yee
Show Links
Official WebsitePopular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com