Michelle Anthony Mentors Entrepreneur Ashley Kirkwood On How To Scale With Gov’t Contracts + More
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
What's up his way up with Angela Ye. I'm Angela
Yee on our Wealth Wednesday. You know we love Wealth
Wednesday and my partner Stacy Tisdale is here.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Happy Wealth Wednesday everybody, and we are so excited to
continue to bringing it to you for Small Business Month,
Black Small Business Month with two amazing ladies, one of
them you met already, Michelle Anthony, And we've been hearing
so much from all of you about how you want
to learn about government contracts that we asked and she
said yes, Michelle is going to be our guest co
(00:31):
host for the remainder of the month. Thank you so
much for doing.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
That and this month in particular, that's really important for
us because when you say you asked, you asked, is
I asked too? Because I want to learn more about
government contracts as well and how I can make my
way to that one hundred million billion dollar status.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So, yes, the universe. You're talking about the universe, and
what we've been really focusing on is getting everybody out
of the small business hustle mentality that so many of
us are in and thinking about scaling and creating industries.
And that's why we're bringing you these role models. We
already introduce you to Michelle. She is the founder and
(01:12):
CEO of Anthony and Associates, which does all sorts of things.
She started as a courts stenographer and then started multiple
technology companies, energy companies, and has really scaled through government contracts.
And I'm just I don't like to using the term,
but it's like I met her mini me when I
met Ashley Kirkwood. Ashley is absolutely incredible. Your business is
(01:36):
number three sixty on INC five thousand lists, So start
by telling everybody about your business.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So I run a company called Speak Your Way to Cash.
We specialize we're a sales training organization and we really
have a unique niche to help experts to land corporate contracts.
So most of our clients are similar to me. We're
making good money in corporate but did not like being
the only one. Okay, that was my story, So I
left a three hundred thousand dollars corporate law job I
(02:04):
was partner track at a large law firm to start
my own business. And so now we teach entrepreneurs how
to sell to corporations by pitching directly to them. So
I'm excited to learn about the government side of things.
On the corporate side, we really teach them to go
directly to the decision maker and pitch their services. So
if you were an accountant at like an Ernst and
Young or your own firm, you can then sell those
(02:25):
services to organizations, and there's a way to directly pitch
to them. So that's what Speak your Way to Cash does.
That's how we started, was helping entrepreneurs land five and
six figure of corporate speaking, consulting and coaching contracts.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
That's what we did.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yep, and you have a podcast too, right, we do
Speak your Way to Cash, Yes, indeed. And I also
saw you were on Crane Chicago's Business twenty in their
twenties list as well too, so and I always think
it's such a big deal when somebody leaves behind a
successful position, as you both have done, to start your
own thing. And so I commend you both, you know,
(02:57):
for being in that position, because that's really betting on
yourself and a lot of times that's a hard thing
for people to do.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That's not enough for you, Ashley, I mean, you have
an author also, you have a multi million dollar business.
But you told me you're like, I want to hit
the one hundred million dollar mark, and you think government
contracts can help.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
You do that, I do.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
I think you know one of the things that I
know what I know and I know what I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Oh, and so I.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Feel like I know the way. I know how we
would reach that mark if we keep doing what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
The volume that we would have to do.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
But I also understand the largest buyer in the world
is the federal government, and so if we can actually
sell to the largest buyer in the world. As someone
who teaches sales, that makes sense to me, And so
I'm interested to hear is that the avenue that we
should take is at the best avenue for us to take.
And then because we train so many speakers, experts and consultants,
we have already made group of true experts that we
(03:48):
could team with and work with who are incredibly qualified
and already doing this work for private company, so they
can use that as their past performance and proof that
they know how to do the work. And I train
hundreds of these women personally, and we have thousands of
them in our community, and I just think it would
be a missed opportunity if I didn't learn more about
that I've always done well by learning what I don't
know and implementing and utilizing and leveraging what I do.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And so that's why we're here.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And I like that because basically this is a live
coaching session.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It is yes, and we're just gonna watch. Stacy.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I was like, you know what, I would love to
be able to do just because of the information that
Michelle brought to us the last time. There were so
many things that I wanted to do. And I said,
you know what for people listening, and also, you know,
for you to be able to for ask to be
able to sit here and do this live coaching session,
and that's going to help and benefit a lot of
people as well, and then they can delve deeper into
(04:39):
whatever it is that they want to do. But I
know I have questions, so I'm gonna be a fly
on the wall before we.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Get into that. Michelle, you were so successful, you have
multimillion dollar businesses. Why is this important to you? You
said you want to step back and really carve out
this time and give back. Why is that so important
to you?
Speaker 5 (04:58):
It's important to me because the further you go up
this ladder, the fewer people you see that look like you,
and when you understand that if you're able to transfer
knowledge not money, knowledge because if I give you money
and you don't understand how to manage it and to
(05:19):
use it, you will squander it. But if I give
you knowledge and then at money, then I see a
path of success. And that's not done often enough for us.
It wasn't done for me. But I don't have a
hang up about it, you know what I'm saying. I
look at it like this when you talk about the
federal government, like I think I said in the back room,
(05:41):
there's so much money to be made. No person in
this room can make it all, So why not help
others who look like you make it?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And when you think about what you didn't have, it
makes you feel like I would love to be able
to provide that for the next person, and the next
person and the next person successful alone.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Yeah, But you know, because a lot of people they're selfish,
and that's not the way we should be. We should
want to see our sisters and our brothers thrive, not survive, thrive,
and that means give a little of yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Someone's getting those contracts, why can't it be us?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Yeah, they're getting them all day long, every day, very
large contracts.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Rachel, give our audience a sense of what government contracts
did for your business and how you know them so well.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Well, what government contracts did for me was first, there
is a major education that's going to be involved. But
once you learn government contracting, there's no business on this
earth you can't do. That's the beauty that I've learned.
That's why you can hear me say I have an
energy company, I do technology. I just I'm doing a
technology deal right now with a brand new form of
(06:54):
technology that doesn't even require holding or programming. And I
don't have a technology background. But because master government contracting
and business at that level, whatever you talk to me about,
whatever business you bring to me, once I hear the
model and I understand it, I can I can take it.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
I can do it.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
And so that's what it did for me. And look
at how many other people once you understand it. And
like Ashley and I we talked about, I love the law.
Speaker 6 (07:19):
So you know.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Understanding how to use the law to my advantage, because
that's what you have to do. You have to be
strategic and so you can't be afraid of that You
can't allow the law to frighten you. You have to
learn how to use it and embrace it and use
it to your benefit. Because laws are not always there
to punish. There are laws there to just guide you
and keep you along the path, to make sure that
(07:41):
you don't take the wrong path.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Right, So follow the path, don't go against it.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Don't do that at all.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
People in the world have used the law certainly to
their advantage. Almost a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Ashley's a lawyer, and you were top of your class
at Northwestern Western University law school. Why is knowing the
law so important in government contracts?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
I think knowing the law is important in business period
because I hear so many people saying like, oh, well,
I'm a coach that's not regulated.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
That's not true.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Again, it is regularly.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
There's something called the Federal Trade Commission. There is a
government body that regulates how you do this industry. But
the law isn't going to not touch anything. Because when
you get caught up, what do they do They bring
a case, Well, they don't really care about you going
to jail. If it's a civil case.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
What do they get? They get money. So, if you
think about it, it's a business.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
People who don't know the law become victims, especially business owners,
because one they can lose their freedom, they could lose
their license, but more importantly, they end up paying more
than taxes, they end up paying penalties. So if you
don't know the law as a business owner, you will
be paying penalties. A quick example is like, hey, you
all have way up with Angela.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, let's say someone was like, well, I'm going to
be way up with Ashley.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Well, if I go out and do that and I
make money doing that, Angelo could say, oh, Ashley took
my trademark. She ain't gonna just say give it back, though,
She's gonna say, hey, how much did you make using
that trademark? And then she could actually get all of
the money I made using her mark.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
That's the law.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I see Isaac Hayes issuing Donald Trump for using his
estate for using his music during his campaign. But they're
not just telling him stop using it, right, They're saying,
you owe me six million dollars when you did use it.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Yeah, So, like, if you don't know the law, it
doesn't it's not just your people say like ignorance is bliss, No,
ignorance is expensive.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Okay, it's not bliss, it's expensive. It's bliss until you.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Get that knock on the door from the IRS or
the FBI. Then it gets Then it gets expensive, you know.
And so it is not just know the law theoretically,
it's make sure you are within the law so that
you can leverage it. Now, Michelle's like she leveraging the
law to make a ton of money. If you don't
know it, not only can you not leverage it to
make money, it can cost you money. Yes, and we
(09:58):
cannot afford extra bill I don't know about y'all. Maybe y'all,
maybe your audience can afford it. I can't afford extra
bills just for being ignorant, Like I have to make
sure I know what it is. Which is why even
though you know we've had success, we've done some things.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I am.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Michelle will tell you what was I doing, Michelle. I
was asking Michelle every as much as I could get
out of Michelle, and I was like, Okay, tell me
about how can how can my marriage be better?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Okay? How can I ask better? How can my leadership
be better?
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Because I want to I'm not about to meet nobody
that knows as much as this sister right here who's
willing to talk to me and not ask for wisdom.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, let's hear some of those, right, because that's what
this is about, for everybody listening and for myself. You know,
these are the conversations that we want to be able
to eat, chop on and then participate in as well,
because I feel like this can spark in some people
who are some of our listeners. And to be clear,
everyone's not going to do this. But the people who
are sparked and that are going to go out and
(10:52):
do things within the law the right way and take
the time to learn how to do this, they're the
ones that are going to be the ones that will
be able to go online and prosper yes from this lesson.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
So go ahead, Ashley. Why did you want Michelle to
be your coach? And what do you want to ask
her about?
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yes, so let's start from the beginning. Okay, because I've
looked into this, but let's assume I haven't looked into
it at all. Right, what are the first three things
that you need to have in place or whatever number
you think makes sense in order to get started selling
to the government. There's definitely some pre work So is
it registering on sam dot gov. Where should people start
if they're like, okay, I want to do this, what's
the first step?
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Well, well, you can't register on sam dot gov until
you actually form a corporation.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (11:35):
So you got to have a corporation.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
You have to have an entity, and you have to
know what you want to do because when you go
on to sam dot gov or even when you form
that entity, the government is going to want to know
what's called your next code inn ai CS. That's the
North American Industry Classification System and it classifies all types
of businesses. So when you when you choose okay, I
(11:57):
want to be have an IT skill, So wan an
IT company. Typically IT there's different areas within IT, but
I'll just use one for like services that's fifty four
to fifteen twelve.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
Fifty four to fifteen eleven. It's like a six digit code.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
So you need to know that because when you form
your corporation, that's what everything is going to follow. Okay,
this is what this company has been formed for. Then
once you form the corporation, then you need to get
your EI in number from the gut from the IRS.
Do you want to have employees or do you not
want to have employees. So that's a decision that you
need to make because that's going to determine whether you
get a ti IN or an ei IN okay, because
(12:36):
an ei in is for employers, so you know, so
ti IN is just your tax identification number, so there's
a difference. So once you get those those preliminary things
figured out in your mind, then there are steps you
go to, like you say, sam dot gov. That's when
you want to register your entity and they talk about
how you want to register your entity. All the things
that you want to be able to say you can
(12:57):
offer to the government. So if you if you can
offer it, well, maybe you want to also offer products
so you can do the services. Okay, I cannot only
provide you professional it support and develop systems and answers
and solutions for you, but also I can create a
product and then so there's a product code that you
need to also identify. So whatever it is you think
(13:17):
you can offer, there are so many and once you
choose those things and you go through that process, then
they're going to go through this whole process where they're
going to verify everything, make sure everything is legit and
eventually they're going to give you something called a cage code,
and that is a code that will follow your business
the rest of.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
The entity's existence.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
The cage code is tied to everything from if you
have to get a security clearance like me, I have
a secret security clearance. So with my clearance, my cage
code is attached to that. Because the government tracks everything
using codes and systems, so you'll be issued this cage
code and every time you win a contract, your cage
code is entered on there. So there's a system that
(13:57):
can go back and tell you all the contracts that
I've been awarded in almost thirty years because I've had
that same cage code number. So then now they have
something called a UEI number instead of you using a
done in Brass Street number because it used to be
done in Bradstreet. Well done in Brass Street lost their contract,
so people didn't know that done in Brass Street all
(14:18):
those years you were being required to have a done
in Brass Street number.
Speaker 6 (14:21):
That was a contract.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Oh wow.
Speaker 6 (14:23):
So the new.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Company that came in and creased, they came in with
a UEI code system and they issued these random UEI
codes now and then, so they're doing it through that process.
So that contract went away and then so done in
Brasstreet gets what they did. They pivoted and went in
a different direction because hey, they have been accustomed to a.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
Very large government contract.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
So they came up with some other things that they
wanted to sell and do. So there is some other
arenas within the government. So you have to always be
willing to keep your mind open because you never know
what's going to happen. But you need to be able
to pivot. You have to be able to pivot. Just
because something changes does not mean you should go away now.
It causes you to to no longer be able to flourish,
to be able to function. So once you get the
(15:07):
identify the company, create the corporation, get your tax ID number,
whichever one is EI in tax id.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
Then when you go to SAM, you have those things
because they're mandatory.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Once you go through that whole process, SAM issues you
the cage code and they issue you your UEI number.
They'll say this entity is registered to do business with
the federal.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Government and it can be any kind of business.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Well, it has to fall within one of those cages, right,
So again you can look it up as the North
American Industry what it's the North American Industry innai C
classification System. And so for example, all you have to
do is say you can google side. Okay, let me
tell you a little bit about the size standard, because
that's important. So when you decide what you want to do,
(15:53):
there's something called a size standard. That's another law. So
the SBA regulates that. SBA is a small business administration.
When the SBA looks at that, so say, when you
choose it, I'm gonna keep going back to that one
that's my top of my head.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
It the cage.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
The next code is fifty four to fifteen eleven or
fifty four to fifteen twelve, whichever point we want to
go with. They'll tell you the average that your company
cannot earn in a five year period to still be
considered small.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
So if you earn the cage code, I mean the
size standard for fifty four to fifteen eleven or twelve,
it's about forty one point five million dollars.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Okay. That's the size standard.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
That's nothing under that is considered small.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
It is considered small.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
So that's why I had to, you know, make sure,
ILL wanted to talk about.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
You know, you may I may have signed contracts that
had billion dollars ceilings on it, but that doesn't mean
that you retain all that you can do up to
that amount of business.
Speaker 6 (16:51):
But a lot of times you're sharing it.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
Because the government will they'll do what they call consolidate
or they'll bundle because they're trying to not have to
do so many little bitty in it, you know, itty
bitty individual contrac Yes, because when you talk to them
and they're moving billions of dollars, those are very small
numbers to them.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, they're very small.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
And with the NAICS codes, one thing I wanted to mention,
when people are looking at it and they're googling it,
you know, double check it with the official website. But
now we have AI, so you all actually can also
put in there like what are all the NAICS codes
and that relate to public speaking or law or it correct,
And so that'll give you a good basis and then
we can go to the government websites and cross track
(17:32):
and make sure it's right.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
One thing you mentioned.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
Oh one second before I forget this, let me give
you a gym. Yeah, when you're choosing that next code,
the SBA is going to when they create your profile,
they're going to say that's your primary next code. Okay,
And so if you choose a next code, another one
is staffing. I started out, I did that for a while.
(17:56):
So fifty six eleven ten is a staffing next code
that's for temporary personnel.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
That next code used to be about seven million dollars.
So if that's your primary next code and you earn
over over seven million dollars within the five year window
that they're they're going to audit to see whether or
not you're still small or not, then if you're coming
to earns over seven million, they'll consider you large.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Wow, and you have to compete with all of the
other you go so you don't qualify for the.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Small is important with very important.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
That's why I'm telling you that because when I first
got into the game, nobody told me. So as I
started understanding, I changed my next code.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
And you can change it at any time. Yes, So
let's say you're reaching that ceiling. You could say like,
all right, now my primary and you'll just have secondaries.
But your primary could be something else.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
You can change it, but they're still gonna look at
your revenues. So yeah, they're gonna look at your revenue,
so you can change it. But what I'm saying is
is when I first started out, no one told me
the importance of reason the right next code because that
gives you a longer window. See, these are the little
It's like when people go get in the A A
program and time to get a business. People say, oh,
(19:03):
I should go get my AD and I tell people, no,
you don't, don't do that. Eight A is another social
economic set aside that the government gives where they'll set
aside contracts up to four million dollars without competition. It's
called a sole source. You're the sole source to provide
that service. Okay, so there's and so those you can
(19:25):
get those without competition, right, so it's huge.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
So if you go and you get several of those
in a row, and your next code, your primary was
fifty six, uh fifty six, eleven ten, and you get
about three or four of those four million dollar ones,
pretty soon you're gonna be already at your at your ceiling.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
You see what I'm saying, Because they're.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Gonna they're gonna average your revenues over the over five years.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Do you recommend that people listening start out and we
go directly for prime contracts or or no? Do you
recommend subcontracting subcontract building your capacity?
Speaker 6 (19:59):
And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
I used to think that people are just being selfish,
and I thought that they were just trying to keep
you down and whateverever.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
But it is very.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Hard to pierce that ceiling as a prime and when
you do, if you if you do not perform, there's
something you can be debarred. There's all there's punishments. There's
something called a se PARS. Any contract over a million
dollars in value, the government has to do a sea
PARS and that is a contract to performance assessment report.
(20:31):
So that's when they're going to assess how you performed
on the contract. So if your ce PARS is not
good then and you and you and you have a
history of not performing. When someone gets ready to issue
new contracts, then they can look at your ce PARS.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So definitely something. So you get a contract and get
a contract, you also have to do the.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
Work you have.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Subcontracting build the track.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
So what subcontract acting does is it gives you the
ability to learn under the umbrella of the Prime because
the Primes report card is what's going to be reported,
not to sub.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So if she became a subcontractor to you.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Correct, they would they would, they would if we didn't perform,
And if Ashley was the reason my company didn't perform,
they don't care that actually, because if you should the
contract to me is the prime.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
That's a good way to.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Make sure I performed. Don't worry every time.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You talk about so much how mentors are so important
and sponsors and the difference, someone will actually step in
it with you. What's a good way for someone to
find primes If someone wants to get into government contracts
and they want to start out as a subcontractor.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
Is there a database to see like how there is
there's there's a database that they use for Primes to
look for subs. Most of the times it's it's challenging,
but there are a lot of conferences that that they
do for government contracting and you can go and meet
and they do what they call matchmaking sessions where you know,
a lot of times it's like, Okay, we're Prime company
(22:05):
and we're looking for some new subs. We need some
fresh subs to work with us and they're always looking
for a new talent. So that's one way of getting
your foot in the door. A lot of it, I've learned.
It's relationships. Okay, it's relationships, and even if it's not
something that you really really want to do long term,
but it'll get your foot in the door. You'll get
a chance to get an education, humble yourself and start there.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
So being physically present at some of these conferences and
getting FaceTime informing those relationships, yes, it is going to.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Be Really I've benefited from relationships from twenty years ago.
It may have took us ten years before we did
some work together, but I kept that relationships positive and
when the time, because the sales cycle can be long, yeah,
with government contract it can be a longer sale cycle.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And what is that sales cycle?
Speaker 4 (22:50):
So if they're starting today and they're doing all the
things that we've discussed to them getting their first even subcontract,
what timeline should people be expecting.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
There's so many things that go on before that right there.
You can't just jump to that. You know, it's according
to whether or not we're talking about what we're doing
from the contractor side, or what is going on on
the government side, because you got both sides at the table,
so I don't know which one you want me to answer.
Because the government has their whole what they call market
research and all of those processes, and they do what
(23:17):
they call they'll issue an RFI or a sources sought
and RFI is a request for information, and then they
may not know you exist. So as I talk with you,
I'm going to tell you how to take your next
code and look for opportunities to respond to a sources sought.
(23:39):
So you need to respond to a request for information
if they put that out there. A lot of times
they don't know you exist and they're doing what they
call market research. You're in the marketplace, and if we
get the information from you, then we can consider you,
and then we can even once you provide your information
and what you can do, they may say, hey, we
really like that, you know, when we put out the
response or the solicitation. We want them to be able
(24:02):
to have that capability too. So there's different things that
you can learn how to use those to position you
in a position for an award.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
So they can kind of shape what their actual request
for proposal will be based on what you put in
your instrument.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Okay, I'm going to ask you specific to what Ashley does,
what type of because some people might be listening and
be like, okay, it T it T. But then there's
so many other things that government contacts are looking for
other skills. So say, for what Ashley does, right, what
would be like an example of some type of government
contacts that she could get.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
She could get When you talk about executive leadership training horses,
they are contracts for that wherein you know, different agencies training,
So basically she's falling under the training umbrella. Yeah, you know,
and there are different agencies that have different levels of
training and different types of training requirements. So we talked
(24:57):
about like an SBA. I think we talked about you
wanted to do a program with the SBA for entrepreneurs
and I told her, I said, well, I don't think
I've heard of a specific program like that, But what
I have heard of are other training opportunities that can
get your foot in the door and then you have
(25:18):
to segue over to there, but it gets you.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
In the door.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
So if your training is on HR, if she's able
to tell them, you know, different rules, laws, regulations of
what they need to be in compliance with and we
want to come in and hold a training session for
your your HR department, and then they give her and
it could be a small award. And then once you
get those awards, you just you, just you. I can't
emphasize enough performance. You don't have the option to fail.
(25:45):
We don't have that option.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
What would be considered a small award to me? I'll
give you this, Michelle.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
So when we do our trainings, they started twenty five
thousand dollars for private companies. If we were to go
in the government, how does pricing work, because we do
value based pricing when we sell the corporate for the government,
is it always hourly or how does the pricing structure
need to differ?
Speaker 5 (26:13):
I can't tell you specifically because I don't do what
you do, but I have partners that do. It could
be hourly, it could be what's called a firm fixed price,
where you can tell the government, Okay, you need this training,
whether I make money or I lose money, your price
is going to be.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Five thousand dollars, and you pitch to them the price.
Speaker 5 (26:31):
You can tell them that because what they've done is
they've done their market research and they know what other
people who do what you do, they know what they're charging,
so you can price yourself right out of an opportunity.
So it's very important for you to do the research
to know what your competitors are charging, so that when
you give them a price, your price is not If
your price is too low, they're going to throw you out.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
If your price is too high, they're going to throw
you out.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
They want your price to be right in that they
call it a competitive range, So you're pricing always needs
to be in a competitive.
Speaker 6 (27:01):
Range or else you will not be eligible for award.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
So if twenty five thousand dollars is an average, they
have what they call the government credit card, that's a
micro purchase, so they can issue those contracts to you
all day long on a micro purchase.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
That's how it started.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
I was taking visa in credit card payments from my
court reporting clients when I would go do depositions, when
I would go do hearings.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
And you still went through the bid process and the
proposal process. Even for the micro purchases.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
Sometimes they need at least three people, they need at
least three quotes, and then sometimes in the case of
an emergency, they don't.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
Their soul and.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
There's always something going on in case of an emergency,
so you just it all depends. But again the key
for you is researching to understand what other competitors do
I have in the marketplace, and then what are they charging?
And then if you can understand they're what they're charging,
and then you can make that makes sense based upon
how much you're going to need in order.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
For you to be profitable.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Because the federal government is not in the business of
driving small businesses out of business. Now, they don't want
to overpay, but they want but they want your price
to be fair and reasonable. And then there's something called
the lowest price technically acceptable. That's where the government has
gotten into a lot of trouble when they take the
lowest price technically acceptable that most of.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
The time mean technically acceptable.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
When you prepare your proposal, your proposal has to be
technically acceptable. You have to you have to meet all
of the compliance standards in the solicitation document that they
gave you. So if you do and you answer it
in accordance to what they're looking for, you're technically acceptable.
If you're not, if you miss something, if you leave
something out you will be disqualified as being not technically acceptable.
(28:45):
But when you go to the lowest price technically acceptable,
a lot of times they get garbage.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
This sounds really intimidating.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
It's like, I guess for me, it's not because I'm
very competitive. You got it. You got to think about
your athleticism and the things whatever.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Anything competitive. That's all it is. It's a mind game.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
But is there a database where we can see like
sample proposals so that you get an idea?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Okay, well, what you can do is you can follow
that AI. Yes, yes, you can follow on Instagram, which
is at Michelle Vegan's anthony, and you can hashtag ask Michelle.
We're starting this question, question and answer. But someone Okay,
suppose I'm someone I'm out here listening and I have
(29:30):
a beauty company. I sell hair care products, and I'm
listening to the two of you, and I'm like, gosh's
Ashley Lucky. But she has somebody to walk her through
this process where you're talking about how important it is
to follow the letter of the law, how important all
these things are. Where can someone where can I learn
this stuff without getting myself into trouble because.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
You both do have a background in law.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
In law, well, you need someone to teach you do.
You need someone that has already blazed that trail. And
and you know, when I was in the midl military,
that was one of the things that they would they
would they would say, you know what is you know,
what do you want to do? You know in a situation,
if you have a potential situation that can be harmful,
you want to follow someone who got through that trail already.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
You don't want you don't want to create your own.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
So at the end of the day, it's a willingness,
a willingness to give of yourself. It's not going to
be easy, it's not. But what it is is life changing.
And to me, I was always reared to believe anything
worth having I had to work for it. So for
this I worked for it. And now I've reaped the
(30:36):
fruit of my labor.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And it's second nation more to you now because you
know what the process is like a joke. It's like
once you let in the process and you know how
to do it and you know the right way to
go about it, it becomes easier and easier every time.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
It does.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's kind of like the first time buying a house
and having to get a mortgage and you're like, oh,
this is so difficult. But then you do it again,
and then you do it again and you understand the
process and how it works and the time that it
takes and what you should be bidding and the people
you should be working with, and then it becomes easier
for you.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And think about the time people spend hustling, entrepreneurs really hustling, hustling, hustling,
putting that time and energy into getting a government contract
for your business. It's worth it.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
It is.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
It is life changing because when you when you take
the time to learn and and and not try.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
To take all the shortcuts.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
You know what I'm saying, you want to take. You
want to take some that are reasonable. But at the
end of the day, if this is something you're looking
to change your financial future and your status, if you
make up in your mind that you know what, I'm
going to put my mind to this and I'm going
to do this, it becomes easy. Right. I remember about
five or six years ago I had stepped away. I've
(31:45):
started the company over twice, and because my the first
time I started over.
Speaker 6 (31:50):
It was when.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
I left Virginia to move to Atlanta with my daughters,
and I was like, Okay, well, I think I'm supposed
to go in the ministry or something, so I'm just
going to do that, and I terminated the corporation. And
then like two months later, that's when I heard in
my spirit or no, I'm gonna I'm gonna bless your government.
You were government contracts.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
I never even thought about it like that.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
And then within within thirty to thirty between thirty and
sixty days, at my first one point eight million.
Speaker 6 (32:18):
Dollar contract, I was like, was life changing?
Speaker 5 (32:20):
It was life changing, yeah, but it was something that
I had been doing all this time. I never knew
that the government bought it and that at that at
that level, you see what I'm saying. And so then
after I did that one, my dad and became ill
with cancer, and so I was a if you google
daddy's girl, you're gonna see me. And so I took
(32:43):
care of my dad from the day we found out
till the day God took him home. And then like
six months later, my sister was diagnosed with breast cancer.
I jumped in the fight right behind that with my
sister until God took her home. So I stepped away
from the company. But then in twenty nineteen, I said,
you know what, I'm gonna do this thing one last time.
And when I do this thing, and I let all
(33:04):
my employees go, I went down to zero employees. I did,
and I came back in twenty nineteen and I said, Okay,
I'm gonna do this one more time. And when I
just told myself, regardless of what you see, whatever you hear,
this is it. And when I made my mind, when
we make our minds up, yeah, I'm not kidding you.
(33:25):
It has been NonStop and it's just the truth. If
you make your mind because I knew the potential that
it had.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Right, government contacts aren't going anywhere.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
They're not.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
And when you look at them, if you understand it,
it's some people that have been in place for decades
and they're not going anywhere because the government contracts have
created dynasties for people.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
They created dynasties.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Now, when you say you, cause you've talked about a
variety of verticals that you've been in, do you recommend
for everyone listening in also for us, like if we
were to do government contracts. Would you recommend starting a
separate entity to do it or do it under the
entity you already have. Is there ever a reason why
you'd recommend starting a separate entity.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
It could be a reason that you would start a
second entity. But because this entity has the past performance.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
You need to use that, right Okay.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
And there's a difference between past performance and past experience.
Explain that government sees that differently. So past experience means
Ashley is an attorney. And if you bid on a proposal,
instead of saying that I can show you that I
did a contract for attorney services for the government, I
can show you my past experience that I used in
my civilian realm that I was an attorney. That's your
(34:40):
experience that counts as well as past performance. Means I
have contracts that I've done that work and I perform.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
And you can find my.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Separs government only government contracts or will private corporate contracts?
Speaker 6 (34:52):
Right will? They will take corporate contract.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
And they just want to see your experience.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
They want to see it.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Now.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
If I don't have the experience, could I pull that
experience from a team member that I hire, or how
does that work?
Speaker 5 (35:02):
It's according to the way they write the solicitation sometimes and.
Speaker 6 (35:05):
Then you have to remember, now the government is.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Ran by people, yeah, and people are not perfect, So
you have a lot of issues that go on behind
the scenes with government contracting to so. But you can
allow all of those other things to deter you. I
look at it like this, It's just like a gumbo.
All of that's part of the ingredients in the gumbo.
(35:27):
But the outcome is this gumbo. It's gonna be delicious,
it's gonna be good, it's gonna be what I want.
And as long as I keep my mind there, then
I manifest the outcome that I'm looking for. But if
I get caught up and what's in the middle of
the gumbo that that's not right there, then you don't
get the outcome. So at the end of the day,
it's okay that that there are things in the middle
that you don't like, because at the end of the day,
(35:49):
all I'm thinking about is what I've my outcome, and
as I think of my outcome, it becomes my reality.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
All right. And listen, Ashley, I love that we got
to sit here in each job on this conversation, and
I just want to ask Michelle, if people are dealing
with you after this and coming to you for a mentorship,
will you be able to help with the We're getting
a general idea, but I know as she's going to
need help when it's time for her to start like
doing actually putting her bid in and doing things like
(36:16):
that and figuring out that process. Are you able to
help with that process too? Is that something that you're
going to do or.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
I will help to a degree. You know, I'm only
able to do so much. But I have a team,
and I have other people that you know, it's because
of them I'm successful. So, like right now, my team
is doing everything that I need them to do. They're
working on bits, they're doing those things, they're doing the pricing,
and I just want to take this time to just
give them a shout out. Yes, because I have let
(36:45):
me see, I have Melvin, I have Nikki, I have Sheila,
I have Rita Rita Is.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
They all have nicknames.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
I won't tell you their nicknames, but they all have nicknames.
I have Kiara, my daughter Kire. I have Roy, I
have Mike, I have Sean and dwell A. So I
have this this team and then we have partners. As
well that we partner with because you're not going to
always have everything that you need in house, and you
have to be okay with sharing a piece of the
(37:15):
pie because some money is better than no money, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
So, and less stress is always better too, Yeah, money
and stress.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
Yeah, So sometimes we choose which one is going to prime? Okay,
this time, you know what, I'm not gonna prime you prime.
I'll be yourself, you know. And so but all of
those things you're right there going to require additional training.
So what we want to do is create some training
modules and sessions that people can go back to and
they can listen to, and then I'll give them time
(37:44):
to ask me questions. The team is figuring out, Okay,
which day of the month that you want to just
just allow thirty minute segments for this group of people
that just ask you questions, then your next group of people.
Because different people are at different stages, so what I'm
talking to you about someone else may be a little
bit more advanced or less advanced.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
So we want to break all of that.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
Down and see what I can do to help them
understand how to look at their proposals, what to look
for uh, how to understand what the government wrote. See
that's the other piece, understanding what the what is the
government really saying here? And don't read too much in
it and don't read not enough into it. So those
are nuances that that we're going.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
To be able to help people.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
To do the work. Yes, you to do the actual work.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Yes, I can only I can only lead the horse
to water.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
And I am not over there slavery slaving doing all
that slavery work.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
No, you want to reap the benefit, you can do
the work.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
We're just yea.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
Because again, if I work with people, I want to
be able to position them with a with a partner
that's going to give them a contrast. But but so
we're trying to think through how we want to do this,
because you need to perform in the class. If you're
the top performer, you know, I've been thinking about things
like that. If they're the top performer, I need to
have a partner that's already on deck and willing to
(39:09):
be a mentor and say, okay, out of this class
the top performer, then this company's going to take you
under their wing and they're going to make sure that
you get your first subcontract they're gonna you know, I
don't want people to come and listen to me and
they walk away and they just spent their money, they
don't get anything.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah, that's a failure to That's the difference between a
sponsor and a mentor.
Speaker 6 (39:27):
Y yeah, yeah, I don't you know, I'm not here
for that.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
And you do have to be careful about who you
do that for.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
But that is that is the biggest difference to a
sponsor a sponsorship.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I've watched her, Glinda Goodwich, I mean totally totally takes
a steak and everyone and that's why we're honored to
help you build this. And you can hashtag ask Michelle.
You can send questions to Wealth Wednesdays. You can send
I'll follow her on Instagram at Michelle Vegan's Anthony. And
one thing I want you both to touch on people
hear this and they see a million people out there
(39:58):
who say I can help you learn about government contracts.
Beware of bad actors.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
Yes, yes, if they tell you somebody you ask me
about beauty, Okay, the government does purchase and give contracts
in the beauty realm.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
It's okay.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
One of the instances is for like cancer patients. Okay,
say the Veterans Administration. They have to take care of veterans.
So if a veteran gets cancer, the VA will will
buy wigs. They buy wigs, you know. But for someone
saying that they'll pay for your manicure, your pedicure, please
don't give them your money. Please, I beg you don't
(40:38):
do that. You know, you gotta use some reason and
common sense. Yeah, to the government buys it pretty much everything.
But they're not paying for your beauty needs. They're not
doing that. And they're not paying for their staff's beauty needs.
They're not doing that, you know, because that's a waste
of our tax payer dollars. You know, when you start,
you know, doing things of that nature. But like I said,
if there's a medical need or something like that, yes
(41:00):
they do, they will provide that. When you look at
medical products, like if people are in the hospital, there's
a huge, huge volume of business for medical products and
supplies everything from band aids, masks, gloves, you name it,
medical products. But a lot of times, because they can't
do a trillion little small onesie tuoesie contracts, they bundle
(41:24):
them and so once you get in the right relationship
with people who can move it in volume then, and
that means you got to have character. You have to
have character, you have to have integrity. And as you
do that improve yourself. People will give you the chance.
They just will.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
And beware of the bad actor saying they can help
you with government contract Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
Yeah, if it sounds like it's just too easy when
it comes down to government contracting, it is because you're
going to have to put in the work. But if
you make up in your mind and you put in
the work, I promise you you will do well. You
will exceed your own expectations, and a million dollars in
revenue will be something you laugh about.
Speaker 6 (42:05):
It just will.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
About that.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
It will be, you know, because I heard something once
that only three percent of women earn a million dollars
in their business. And that was sad to me. It
was sad to me because we work so hard, and
you know, we drive so much with the engine. And
the other thing I'll say about small businesses, the difference
is we really do drive our government and we drive
our economy. Because the larger businesses can take their money
(42:33):
and they can invest it offshore. They don't care about
whether or not the US has whatever they need, but
it's small businesses. When we get that chance, we go
above and beyond. You know what I'm saying, because we
like Look, we know I got this chance. You heard
me say, you can't not perform. But large businesses they
fail to perform all the time.
Speaker 6 (42:50):
Yea.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
And when you build that reputation that you that go to,
you want to become their go to whenever they have
a problem in their mind. You want them to think
about you. That's what you want to become. But you
can't do that off of somebody else's reputation, off of
somebody else's sweat equity. You have to get your own
and when you do, it will pay you over and
over and over.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Amazing. And Ashley, I can have you leave without telling
us about Black Women Sell Live, just so people who
are listening get to know about that.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
So you know what Michelle said is true. Three percent
of women own businesses make a million dollars. We don't
know the stats exactly for black women owned businesses, but
I know that it's less than three percent, right, And
so what we're doing at Black Women's Sell Live very
simply is we are helping black women learn to sell
in the private contracting space.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
We teach direct outreach.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
So we've landed contracts with Avy Pharmaceuticals, Blue Cross, Blue Shield,
major corporations by reaching out directly, going directly in their
LinkedIn in boxes, going directly through emails, and building relationships
that way, and having a sales conversation, having a sales call,
and then closing the deal. You don't need a large
Instagram following, you don't have to be an influencer for it.
You don't need startup capital, you need a laptop. You
(44:03):
need the ability to have sales conversations, tell people how
they can do business with you, what you're going to
give to them, and then close the sale. But I
found that sometimes, you know, women particularly will be like, well, I.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want
to put myself out there. I don't want to say
too much.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
And so Black Women Sell Live is an assembling of
black women experts, and we're teaching direct sales principles, right messaging,
right audience, right fit. We've worked with thousands of women
entrepreneurs to do this, and it's something that I'm very
passionate about because before I was a lawyer. I actually
did cold calling, So I've done over twenty thousand cold calls.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
I was rejected over ninety times a day.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
And what I found is that once I got to
that ninetieth rejection, I would get so happy because I
was like, this means that's off of the law numbers,
Like I am going to close it deal now, like
I've gotten my rejections in. So the best thing that
ever happened to me was I learned how to properly
handle rejection and nose because once you're not scared of
know you can always go after any opportunity. So at
(45:03):
Black Women Sell Live, we're really teaching women one to
learn who you are for real, not who your business
said you were, not who your auntie and your mama
said you were if that wasn't an appropriate classification of you.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
But you got to know who you are.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Once you know who you are, you can go after
any opportunity, even if it means you may get rejected
and your rejections go down. The better you are at
explaining what you do. So we're gonna teach you write audience,
write fit, and how to sell and close the deal.
And that's what we're doing in October and Atlanta, Georgia
at Black Women's.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Cell Lives and how can people find out about it?
Speaker 3 (45:34):
They can go to black Women sell event dot com.
Speaker 4 (45:36):
And the theme this year, you guys, is black women
the world's strongest superheroes.
Speaker 6 (45:41):
So it's.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Yeah because everyone tells us, you know, take your cape off.
You don't need to be superwomen. But if you put
a cape in your hand, A cape isn't heavy, it's
your thoughts that are heavy. Use that cape to lift
you up, use your superpowers. Don't let your thoughts overwhelm you.
Get a clear head so you can dominate in business
and it won't cost you everything else.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
You love, you too, are perfect. Our whole goal this
month is to get people to stop thinking small yank you.
Oh yeah, thank you both, Thank you, Thank you for
having me a.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Great wealth Wednesday. Thank you guys. I can't wait to
hear about this next one hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yes, you're gonna come back. We have to see how
her advice helped you. Have to come back for sure.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
I will thank you, Michelle.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
I want to you know, thank you and give you
honor for being a trailblazer and being a woman who
I can look to and Jesseee, that is possible.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
You know, You're.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
Decorum, your grace, the piece that you carry with you,
it means a lot as a representative thing. And even
the nuggets you gave us before this incredible. So thank
you guys so much for having us and bringing us on.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Thank you,
What's up his way up with Angela Ye. I'm Angela
Yee on our Wealth Wednesday. You know we love Wealth
Wednesday and my partner Stacy Tisdale is here.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Happy Wealth Wednesday everybody, and we are so excited to
continue to bringing it to you for Small Business Month,
Black Small Business Month with two amazing ladies, one of
them you met already, Michelle Anthony, And we've been hearing
so much from all of you about how you want
to learn about government contracts that we asked and she
said yes, Michelle is going to be our guest co
(00:31):
host for the remainder of the month. Thank you so
much for doing.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
That and this month in particular, that's really important for
us because when you say you asked, you asked, is
I asked too? Because I want to learn more about
government contracts as well and how I can make my
way to that one hundred million billion dollar status.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
So, yes, the universe. You're talking about the universe, and
what we've been really focusing on is getting everybody out
of the small business hustle mentality that so many of
us are in and thinking about scaling and creating industries.
And that's why we're bringing you these role models. We
already introduce you to Michelle. She is the founder and
(01:12):
CEO of Anthony and Associates, which does all sorts of things.
She started as a courts stenographer and then started multiple
technology companies, energy companies, and has really scaled through government contracts.
And I'm just I don't like to using the term,
but it's like I met her mini me when I
met Ashley Kirkwood. Ashley is absolutely incredible. Your business is
(01:36):
number three sixty on INC five thousand lists, So start
by telling everybody about your business.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
So I run a company called Speak Your Way to Cash.
We specialize we're a sales training organization and we really
have a unique niche to help experts to land corporate contracts.
So most of our clients are similar to me. We're
making good money in corporate but did not like being
the only one. Okay, that was my story, So I
left a three hundred thousand dollars corporate law job I
(02:04):
was partner track at a large law firm to start
my own business. And so now we teach entrepreneurs how
to sell to corporations by pitching directly to them. So
I'm excited to learn about the government side of things.
On the corporate side, we really teach them to go
directly to the decision maker and pitch their services. So
if you were an accountant at like an Ernst and
Young or your own firm, you can then sell those
(02:25):
services to organizations, and there's a way to directly pitch
to them. So that's what Speak your Way to Cash does.
That's how we started, was helping entrepreneurs land five and
six figure of corporate speaking, consulting and coaching contracts.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
That's what we did.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yep, and you have a podcast too, right, we do
Speak your Way to Cash, Yes, indeed. And I also
saw you were on Crane Chicago's Business twenty in their
twenties list as well too, so and I always think
it's such a big deal when somebody leaves behind a
successful position, as you both have done, to start your
own thing. And so I commend you both, you know,
(02:57):
for being in that position, because that's really betting on
yourself and a lot of times that's a hard thing
for people to do.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That's not enough for you, Ashley, I mean, you have
an author also, you have a multi million dollar business.
But you told me you're like, I want to hit
the one hundred million dollar mark, and you think government
contracts can help.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
You do that, I do.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
I think you know one of the things that I
know what I know and I know what I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Oh, and so I.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Feel like I know the way. I know how we
would reach that mark if we keep doing what we're doing.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
The volume that we would have to do.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
But I also understand the largest buyer in the world
is the federal government, and so if we can actually
sell to the largest buyer in the world. As someone
who teaches sales, that makes sense to me, And so
I'm interested to hear is that the avenue that we
should take is at the best avenue for us to take.
And then because we train so many speakers, experts and consultants,
we have already made group of true experts that we
(03:48):
could team with and work with who are incredibly qualified
and already doing this work for private company, so they
can use that as their past performance and proof that
they know how to do the work. And I train
hundreds of these women personally, and we have thousands of
them in our community, and I just think it would
be a missed opportunity if I didn't learn more about
that I've always done well by learning what I don't
know and implementing and utilizing and leveraging what I do.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
And so that's why we're here.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And I like that because basically this is a live
coaching session.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
It is yes, and we're just gonna watch. Stacy.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I was like, you know what, I would love to
be able to do just because of the information that
Michelle brought to us the last time. There were so
many things that I wanted to do. And I said,
you know what for people listening, and also, you know,
for you to be able to for ask to be
able to sit here and do this live coaching session,
and that's going to help and benefit a lot of
people as well, and then they can delve deeper into
(04:39):
whatever it is that they want to do. But I
know I have questions, so I'm gonna be a fly
on the wall before we.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Get into that. Michelle, you were so successful, you have
multimillion dollar businesses. Why is this important to you? You
said you want to step back and really carve out
this time and give back. Why is that so important
to you?
Speaker 5 (04:58):
It's important to me because the further you go up
this ladder, the fewer people you see that look like you,
and when you understand that if you're able to transfer
knowledge not money, knowledge because if I give you money
and you don't understand how to manage it and to
(05:19):
use it, you will squander it. But if I give
you knowledge and then at money, then I see a
path of success. And that's not done often enough for us.
It wasn't done for me. But I don't have a
hang up about it, you know what I'm saying. I
look at it like this when you talk about the
federal government, like I think I said in the back room,
(05:41):
there's so much money to be made. No person in
this room can make it all, So why not help
others who look like you make it?
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And when you think about what you didn't have, it
makes you feel like I would love to be able
to provide that for the next person, and the next
person and the next person successful alone.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
Yeah, But you know, because a lot of people they're selfish,
and that's not the way we should be. We should
want to see our sisters and our brothers thrive, not survive, thrive,
and that means give a little of yourself.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Someone's getting those contracts, why can't it be us?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (06:21):
Yeah, they're getting them all day long, every day, very
large contracts.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Rachel, give our audience a sense of what government contracts
did for your business and how you know them so well.
Speaker 5 (06:32):
Well, what government contracts did for me was first, there
is a major education that's going to be involved. But
once you learn government contracting, there's no business on this
earth you can't do. That's the beauty that I've learned.
That's why you can hear me say I have an
energy company, I do technology. I just I'm doing a
technology deal right now with a brand new form of
(06:54):
technology that doesn't even require holding or programming. And I
don't have a technology background. But because master government contracting
and business at that level, whatever you talk to me about,
whatever business you bring to me, once I hear the
model and I understand it, I can I can take it.
Speaker 6 (07:10):
I can do it.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
And so that's what it did for me. And look
at how many other people once you understand it. And
like Ashley and I we talked about, I love the law.
Speaker 6 (07:19):
So you know.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Understanding how to use the law to my advantage, because
that's what you have to do. You have to be
strategic and so you can't be afraid of that You
can't allow the law to frighten you. You have to
learn how to use it and embrace it and use
it to your benefit. Because laws are not always there
to punish. There are laws there to just guide you
and keep you along the path, to make sure that
(07:41):
you don't take the wrong path.
Speaker 6 (07:43):
Right, So follow the path, don't go against it.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Don't do that at all.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
People in the world have used the law certainly to
their advantage. Almost a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Ashley's a lawyer, and you were top of your class
at Northwestern Western University law school. Why is knowing the
law so important in government contracts?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
I think knowing the law is important in business period
because I hear so many people saying like, oh, well,
I'm a coach that's not regulated.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
That's not true.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Again, it is regularly.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
There's something called the Federal Trade Commission. There is a
government body that regulates how you do this industry. But
the law isn't going to not touch anything. Because when
you get caught up, what do they do They bring
a case, Well, they don't really care about you going
to jail. If it's a civil case.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
What do they get? They get money. So, if you
think about it, it's a business.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
People who don't know the law become victims, especially business owners,
because one they can lose their freedom, they could lose
their license, but more importantly, they end up paying more
than taxes, they end up paying penalties. So if you
don't know the law as a business owner, you will
be paying penalties. A quick example is like, hey, you
all have way up with Angela.
Speaker 5 (08:57):
Ye.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Well, let's say someone was like, well, I'm going to
be way up with Ashley.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Well, if I go out and do that and I
make money doing that, Angelo could say, oh, Ashley took
my trademark. She ain't gonna just say give it back, though,
She's gonna say, hey, how much did you make using
that trademark? And then she could actually get all of
the money I made using her mark.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
That's the law.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
I see Isaac Hayes issuing Donald Trump for using his
estate for using his music during his campaign. But they're
not just telling him stop using it, right, They're saying,
you owe me six million dollars when you did use it.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
Yeah, So, like, if you don't know the law, it
doesn't it's not just your people say like ignorance is bliss, No,
ignorance is expensive.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
Okay, it's not bliss, it's expensive. It's bliss until you.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
Get that knock on the door from the IRS or
the FBI. Then it gets Then it gets expensive, you know.
And so it is not just know the law theoretically,
it's make sure you are within the law so that
you can leverage it. Now, Michelle's like she leveraging the
law to make a ton of money. If you don't
know it, not only can you not leverage it to
make money, it can cost you money. Yes, and we
(09:58):
cannot afford extra bill I don't know about y'all. Maybe y'all,
maybe your audience can afford it. I can't afford extra
bills just for being ignorant, Like I have to make
sure I know what it is. Which is why even
though you know we've had success, we've done some things.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
I am.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
Michelle will tell you what was I doing, Michelle. I
was asking Michelle every as much as I could get
out of Michelle, and I was like, Okay, tell me
about how can how can my marriage be better?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Okay? How can I ask better? How can my leadership
be better?
Speaker 4 (10:22):
Because I want to I'm not about to meet nobody
that knows as much as this sister right here who's
willing to talk to me and not ask for wisdom.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, let's hear some of those, right, because that's what
this is about, for everybody listening and for myself. You know,
these are the conversations that we want to be able
to eat, chop on and then participate in as well,
because I feel like this can spark in some people
who are some of our listeners. And to be clear,
everyone's not going to do this. But the people who
are sparked and that are going to go out and
(10:52):
do things within the law the right way and take
the time to learn how to do this, they're the
ones that are going to be the ones that will
be able to go online and prosper yes from this lesson.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
So go ahead, Ashley. Why did you want Michelle to
be your coach? And what do you want to ask
her about?
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yes, so let's start from the beginning. Okay, because I've
looked into this, but let's assume I haven't looked into
it at all. Right, what are the first three things
that you need to have in place or whatever number
you think makes sense in order to get started selling
to the government. There's definitely some pre work So is
it registering on sam dot gov. Where should people start
if they're like, okay, I want to do this, what's
the first step?
Speaker 5 (11:29):
Well, well, you can't register on sam dot gov until
you actually form a corporation.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Yep.
Speaker 6 (11:35):
So you got to have a corporation.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
You have to have an entity, and you have to
know what you want to do because when you go
on to sam dot gov or even when you form
that entity, the government is going to want to know
what's called your next code inn ai CS. That's the
North American Industry Classification System and it classifies all types
of businesses. So when you when you choose okay, I
(11:57):
want to be have an IT skill, So wan an
IT company. Typically IT there's different areas within IT, but
I'll just use one for like services that's fifty four
to fifteen twelve.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
Fifty four to fifteen eleven. It's like a six digit code.
Speaker 5 (12:14):
So you need to know that because when you form
your corporation, that's what everything is going to follow. Okay,
this is what this company has been formed for. Then
once you form the corporation, then you need to get
your EI in number from the gut from the IRS.
Do you want to have employees or do you not
want to have employees. So that's a decision that you
need to make because that's going to determine whether you
get a ti IN or an ei IN okay, because
(12:36):
an ei in is for employers, so you know, so
ti IN is just your tax identification number, so there's
a difference. So once you get those those preliminary things
figured out in your mind, then there are steps you
go to, like you say, sam dot gov. That's when
you want to register your entity and they talk about
how you want to register your entity. All the things
that you want to be able to say you can
(12:57):
offer to the government. So if you if you can
offer it, well, maybe you want to also offer products
so you can do the services. Okay, I cannot only
provide you professional it support and develop systems and answers
and solutions for you, but also I can create a
product and then so there's a product code that you
need to also identify. So whatever it is you think
(13:17):
you can offer, there are so many and once you
choose those things and you go through that process, then
they're going to go through this whole process where they're
going to verify everything, make sure everything is legit and
eventually they're going to give you something called a cage code,
and that is a code that will follow your business
the rest of.
Speaker 6 (13:34):
The entity's existence.
Speaker 5 (13:35):
The cage code is tied to everything from if you
have to get a security clearance like me, I have
a secret security clearance. So with my clearance, my cage
code is attached to that. Because the government tracks everything
using codes and systems, so you'll be issued this cage
code and every time you win a contract, your cage
code is entered on there. So there's a system that
(13:57):
can go back and tell you all the contracts that
I've been awarded in almost thirty years because I've had
that same cage code number. So then now they have
something called a UEI number instead of you using a
done in Brass Street number because it used to be
done in Bradstreet. Well done in Brass Street lost their contract,
so people didn't know that done in Brass Street all
(14:18):
those years you were being required to have a done
in Brass Street number.
Speaker 6 (14:21):
That was a contract.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Oh wow.
Speaker 6 (14:23):
So the new.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
Company that came in and creased, they came in with
a UEI code system and they issued these random UEI
codes now and then, so they're doing it through that process.
So that contract went away and then so done in
Brasstreet gets what they did. They pivoted and went in
a different direction because hey, they have been accustomed to a.
Speaker 6 (14:44):
Very large government contract.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
So they came up with some other things that they
wanted to sell and do. So there is some other
arenas within the government. So you have to always be
willing to keep your mind open because you never know
what's going to happen. But you need to be able
to pivot. You have to be able to pivot. Just
because something changes does not mean you should go away now.
It causes you to to no longer be able to flourish,
to be able to function. So once you get the
(15:07):
identify the company, create the corporation, get your tax ID number,
whichever one is EI in tax id.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
Then when you go to SAM, you have those things
because they're mandatory.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Once you go through that whole process, SAM issues you
the cage code and they issue you your UEI number.
They'll say this entity is registered to do business with
the federal.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Government and it can be any kind of business.
Speaker 5 (15:28):
Well, it has to fall within one of those cages, right,
So again you can look it up as the North
American Industry what it's the North American Industry innai C
classification System. And so for example, all you have to
do is say you can google side. Okay, let me
tell you a little bit about the size standard, because
that's important. So when you decide what you want to do,
(15:53):
there's something called a size standard. That's another law. So
the SBA regulates that. SBA is a small business administration.
When the SBA looks at that, so say, when you
choose it, I'm gonna keep going back to that one
that's my top of my head.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
It the cage.
Speaker 5 (16:12):
The next code is fifty four to fifteen eleven or
fifty four to fifteen twelve, whichever point we want to
go with. They'll tell you the average that your company
cannot earn in a five year period to still be
considered small.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Okay, okay.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
So if you earn the cage code, I mean the
size standard for fifty four to fifteen eleven or twelve,
it's about forty one point five million dollars.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Okay. That's the size standard.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
That's nothing under that is considered small.
Speaker 6 (16:38):
It is considered small.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
Okay.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
So that's why I had to, you know, make sure,
ILL wanted to talk about.
Speaker 5 (16:42):
You know, you may I may have signed contracts that
had billion dollars ceilings on it, but that doesn't mean
that you retain all that you can do up to
that amount of business.
Speaker 6 (16:51):
But a lot of times you're sharing it.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
Because the government will they'll do what they call consolidate
or they'll bundle because they're trying to not have to
do so many little bitty in it, you know, itty
bitty individual contrac Yes, because when you talk to them
and they're moving billions of dollars, those are very small
numbers to them.
Speaker 6 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, they're very small.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
And with the NAICS codes, one thing I wanted to mention,
when people are looking at it and they're googling it,
you know, double check it with the official website. But
now we have AI, so you all actually can also
put in there like what are all the NAICS codes
and that relate to public speaking or law or it correct,
And so that'll give you a good basis and then
we can go to the government websites and cross track
(17:32):
and make sure it's right.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
One thing you mentioned.
Speaker 5 (17:35):
Oh one second before I forget this, let me give
you a gym. Yeah, when you're choosing that next code,
the SBA is going to when they create your profile,
they're going to say that's your primary next code. Okay,
And so if you choose a next code, another one
is staffing. I started out, I did that for a while.
(17:56):
So fifty six eleven ten is a staffing next code
that's for temporary personnel.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Right.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
That next code used to be about seven million dollars.
So if that's your primary next code and you earn
over over seven million dollars within the five year window
that they're they're going to audit to see whether or
not you're still small or not, then if you're coming
to earns over seven million, they'll consider you large.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
Wow, and you have to compete with all of the
other you go so you don't qualify for the.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Small is important with very important.
Speaker 5 (18:27):
That's why I'm telling you that because when I first
got into the game, nobody told me. So as I
started understanding, I changed my next code.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
And you can change it at any time. Yes, So
let's say you're reaching that ceiling. You could say like,
all right, now my primary and you'll just have secondaries.
But your primary could be something else.
Speaker 5 (18:42):
You can change it, but they're still gonna look at
your revenues. So yeah, they're gonna look at your revenue,
so you can change it. But what I'm saying is
is when I first started out, no one told me
the importance of reason the right next code because that
gives you a longer window. See, these are the little
It's like when people go get in the A A
program and time to get a business. People say, oh,
(19:03):
I should go get my AD and I tell people, no,
you don't, don't do that. Eight A is another social
economic set aside that the government gives where they'll set
aside contracts up to four million dollars without competition. It's
called a sole source. You're the sole source to provide
that service. Okay, so there's and so those you can
(19:25):
get those without competition, right, so it's huge.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (19:29):
So if you go and you get several of those
in a row, and your next code, your primary was
fifty six, uh fifty six, eleven ten, and you get
about three or four of those four million dollar ones,
pretty soon you're gonna be already at your at your ceiling.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
You see what I'm saying, Because they're.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Gonna they're gonna average your revenues over the over five years.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Do you recommend that people listening start out and we
go directly for prime contracts or or no? Do you
recommend subcontracting subcontract building your capacity?
Speaker 6 (19:59):
And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 5 (20:01):
I used to think that people are just being selfish,
and I thought that they were just trying to keep
you down and whateverever.
Speaker 6 (20:07):
But it is very.
Speaker 5 (20:09):
Hard to pierce that ceiling as a prime and when
you do, if you if you do not perform, there's
something you can be debarred. There's all there's punishments. There's
something called a se PARS. Any contract over a million
dollars in value, the government has to do a sea
PARS and that is a contract to performance assessment report.
(20:31):
So that's when they're going to assess how you performed
on the contract. So if your ce PARS is not
good then and you and you and you have a
history of not performing. When someone gets ready to issue
new contracts, then they can look at your ce PARS.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So definitely something. So you get a contract and get
a contract, you also have to do the.
Speaker 6 (20:54):
Work you have.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Subcontracting build the track.
Speaker 5 (20:59):
So what subcontract acting does is it gives you the
ability to learn under the umbrella of the Prime because
the Primes report card is what's going to be reported,
not to sub.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
So if she became a subcontractor to you.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
Correct, they would they would, they would if we didn't perform,
And if Ashley was the reason my company didn't perform,
they don't care that actually, because if you should the
contract to me is the prime.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
That's a good way to.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
Make sure I performed. Don't worry every time.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
You talk about so much how mentors are so important
and sponsors and the difference, someone will actually step in
it with you. What's a good way for someone to
find primes If someone wants to get into government contracts
and they want to start out as a subcontractor.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
Is there a database to see like how there is
there's there's a database that they use for Primes to
look for subs. Most of the times it's it's challenging,
but there are a lot of conferences that that they
do for government contracting and you can go and meet
and they do what they call matchmaking sessions where you know,
a lot of times it's like, Okay, we're Prime company
(22:05):
and we're looking for some new subs. We need some
fresh subs to work with us and they're always looking
for a new talent. So that's one way of getting
your foot in the door. A lot of it, I've learned.
It's relationships. Okay, it's relationships, and even if it's not
something that you really really want to do long term,
but it'll get your foot in the door. You'll get
a chance to get an education, humble yourself and start there.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Right.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
So being physically present at some of these conferences and
getting FaceTime informing those relationships, yes, it is going to.
Speaker 5 (22:34):
Be Really I've benefited from relationships from twenty years ago.
It may have took us ten years before we did
some work together, but I kept that relationships positive and
when the time, because the sales cycle can be long, yeah,
with government contract it can be a longer sale cycle.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
And what is that sales cycle?
Speaker 4 (22:50):
So if they're starting today and they're doing all the
things that we've discussed to them getting their first even subcontract,
what timeline should people be expecting.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
There's so many things that go on before that right there.
You can't just jump to that. You know, it's according
to whether or not we're talking about what we're doing
from the contractor side, or what is going on on
the government side, because you got both sides at the table,
so I don't know which one you want me to answer.
Because the government has their whole what they call market
research and all of those processes, and they do what
(23:17):
they call they'll issue an RFI or a sources sought
and RFI is a request for information, and then they
may not know you exist. So as I talk with you,
I'm going to tell you how to take your next
code and look for opportunities to respond to a sources sought.
(23:39):
So you need to respond to a request for information
if they put that out there. A lot of times
they don't know you exist and they're doing what they
call market research. You're in the marketplace, and if we
get the information from you, then we can consider you,
and then we can even once you provide your information
and what you can do, they may say, hey, we
really like that, you know, when we put out the
response or the solicitation. We want them to be able
(24:02):
to have that capability too. So there's different things that
you can learn how to use those to position you
in a position for an award.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
So they can kind of shape what their actual request
for proposal will be based on what you put in
your instrument.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Okay, I'm going to ask you specific to what Ashley does,
what type of because some people might be listening and
be like, okay, it T it T. But then there's
so many other things that government contacts are looking for
other skills. So say, for what Ashley does, right, what
would be like an example of some type of government
contacts that she could get.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
She could get When you talk about executive leadership training horses,
they are contracts for that wherein you know, different agencies training,
So basically she's falling under the training umbrella. Yeah, you know,
and there are different agencies that have different levels of
training and different types of training requirements. So we talked
(24:57):
about like an SBA. I think we talked about you
wanted to do a program with the SBA for entrepreneurs
and I told her, I said, well, I don't think
I've heard of a specific program like that, But what
I have heard of are other training opportunities that can
get your foot in the door and then you have
(25:18):
to segue over to there, but it gets you.
Speaker 6 (25:20):
In the door.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
So if your training is on HR, if she's able
to tell them, you know, different rules, laws, regulations of
what they need to be in compliance with and we
want to come in and hold a training session for
your your HR department, and then they give her and
it could be a small award. And then once you
get those awards, you just you, just you. I can't
emphasize enough performance. You don't have the option to fail.
(25:45):
We don't have that option.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
What would be considered a small award to me? I'll
give you this, Michelle.
Speaker 4 (25:58):
So when we do our trainings, they started twenty five
thousand dollars for private companies. If we were to go
in the government, how does pricing work, because we do
value based pricing when we sell the corporate for the government,
is it always hourly or how does the pricing structure
need to differ?
Speaker 5 (26:13):
I can't tell you specifically because I don't do what
you do, but I have partners that do. It could
be hourly, it could be what's called a firm fixed price,
where you can tell the government, Okay, you need this training,
whether I make money or I lose money, your price
is going to be.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Five thousand dollars, and you pitch to them the price.
Speaker 5 (26:31):
You can tell them that because what they've done is
they've done their market research and they know what other
people who do what you do, they know what they're charging,
so you can price yourself right out of an opportunity.
So it's very important for you to do the research
to know what your competitors are charging, so that when
you give them a price, your price is not If
your price is too low, they're going to throw you out.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
If your price is too high, they're going to throw
you out.
Speaker 5 (26:54):
They want your price to be right in that they
call it a competitive range, So you're pricing always needs
to be in a competitive.
Speaker 6 (27:01):
Range or else you will not be eligible for award.
Speaker 5 (27:03):
So if twenty five thousand dollars is an average, they
have what they call the government credit card, that's a
micro purchase, so they can issue those contracts to you
all day long on a micro purchase.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
That's how it started.
Speaker 5 (27:18):
I was taking visa in credit card payments from my
court reporting clients when I would go do depositions, when
I would go do hearings.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
And you still went through the bid process and the
proposal process. Even for the micro purchases.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
Sometimes they need at least three people, they need at
least three quotes, and then sometimes in the case of
an emergency, they don't.
Speaker 6 (27:37):
Their soul and.
Speaker 5 (27:37):
There's always something going on in case of an emergency,
so you just it all depends. But again the key
for you is researching to understand what other competitors do
I have in the marketplace, and then what are they charging?
And then if you can understand they're what they're charging,
and then you can make that makes sense based upon
how much you're going to need in order.
Speaker 6 (27:59):
For you to be profitable.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Because the federal government is not in the business of
driving small businesses out of business. Now, they don't want
to overpay, but they want but they want your price
to be fair and reasonable. And then there's something called
the lowest price technically acceptable. That's where the government has
gotten into a lot of trouble when they take the
lowest price technically acceptable that most of.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
The time mean technically acceptable.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
When you prepare your proposal, your proposal has to be
technically acceptable. You have to you have to meet all
of the compliance standards in the solicitation document that they
gave you. So if you do and you answer it
in accordance to what they're looking for, you're technically acceptable.
If you're not, if you miss something, if you leave
something out you will be disqualified as being not technically acceptable.
(28:45):
But when you go to the lowest price technically acceptable,
a lot of times they get garbage.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
This sounds really intimidating.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
It's like, I guess for me, it's not because I'm
very competitive. You got it. You got to think about
your athleticism and the things whatever.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Anything competitive. That's all it is. It's a mind game.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
But is there a database where we can see like
sample proposals so that you get an idea?
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Okay, well, what you can do is you can follow
that AI. Yes, yes, you can follow on Instagram, which
is at Michelle Vegan's anthony, and you can hashtag ask Michelle.
We're starting this question, question and answer. But someone Okay,
suppose I'm someone I'm out here listening and I have
(29:30):
a beauty company. I sell hair care products, and I'm
listening to the two of you, and I'm like, gosh's
Ashley Lucky. But she has somebody to walk her through
this process where you're talking about how important it is
to follow the letter of the law, how important all
these things are. Where can someone where can I learn
this stuff without getting myself into trouble because.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
You both do have a background in law.
Speaker 5 (29:51):
In law, well, you need someone to teach you do.
You need someone that has already blazed that trail. And
and you know, when I was in the midl military,
that was one of the things that they would they
would they would say, you know what is you know,
what do you want to do? You know in a situation,
if you have a potential situation that can be harmful,
you want to follow someone who got through that trail already.
Speaker 6 (30:13):
You don't want you don't want to create your own.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
So at the end of the day, it's a willingness,
a willingness to give of yourself. It's not going to
be easy, it's not. But what it is is life changing.
And to me, I was always reared to believe anything
worth having I had to work for it. So for
this I worked for it. And now I've reaped the
(30:36):
fruit of my labor.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
And it's second nation more to you now because you
know what the process is like a joke. It's like
once you let in the process and you know how
to do it and you know the right way to
go about it, it becomes easier and easier every time.
Speaker 6 (30:48):
It does.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's kind of like the first time buying a house
and having to get a mortgage and you're like, oh,
this is so difficult. But then you do it again,
and then you do it again and you understand the
process and how it works and the time that it
takes and what you should be bidding and the people
you should be working with, and then it becomes easier
for you.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
And think about the time people spend hustling, entrepreneurs really hustling, hustling, hustling,
putting that time and energy into getting a government contract
for your business. It's worth it.
Speaker 6 (31:14):
It is.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
It is life changing because when you when you take
the time to learn and and and not try.
Speaker 6 (31:21):
To take all the shortcuts.
Speaker 5 (31:23):
You know what I'm saying, you want to take. You
want to take some that are reasonable. But at the
end of the day, if this is something you're looking
to change your financial future and your status, if you
make up in your mind that you know what, I'm
going to put my mind to this and I'm going
to do this, it becomes easy. Right. I remember about
five or six years ago I had stepped away. I've
(31:45):
started the company over twice, and because my the first
time I started over.
Speaker 6 (31:50):
It was when.
Speaker 5 (31:50):
I left Virginia to move to Atlanta with my daughters,
and I was like, Okay, well, I think I'm supposed
to go in the ministry or something, so I'm just
going to do that, and I terminated the corporation. And
then like two months later, that's when I heard in
my spirit or no, I'm gonna I'm gonna bless your government.
You were government contracts.
Speaker 6 (32:10):
I never even thought about it like that.
Speaker 5 (32:11):
And then within within thirty to thirty between thirty and
sixty days, at my first one point eight million.
Speaker 6 (32:18):
Dollar contract, I was like, was life changing?
Speaker 5 (32:20):
It was life changing, yeah, but it was something that
I had been doing all this time. I never knew
that the government bought it and that at that at
that level, you see what I'm saying. And so then
after I did that one, my dad and became ill
with cancer, and so I was a if you google
daddy's girl, you're gonna see me. And so I took
(32:43):
care of my dad from the day we found out
till the day God took him home. And then like
six months later, my sister was diagnosed with breast cancer.
I jumped in the fight right behind that with my
sister until God took her home. So I stepped away
from the company. But then in twenty nineteen, I said,
you know what, I'm gonna do this thing one last time.
And when I do this thing, and I let all
(33:04):
my employees go, I went down to zero employees. I did,
and I came back in twenty nineteen and I said, Okay,
I'm gonna do this one more time. And when I
just told myself, regardless of what you see, whatever you hear,
this is it. And when I made my mind, when
we make our minds up, yeah, I'm not kidding you.
(33:25):
It has been NonStop and it's just the truth. If
you make your mind because I knew the potential that
it had.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Right, government contacts aren't going anywhere.
Speaker 6 (33:35):
They're not.
Speaker 5 (33:36):
And when you look at them, if you understand it,
it's some people that have been in place for decades
and they're not going anywhere because the government contracts have
created dynasties for people.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
They created dynasties.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Now, when you say you, cause you've talked about a
variety of verticals that you've been in, do you recommend
for everyone listening in also for us, like if we
were to do government contracts. Would you recommend starting a
separate entity to do it or do it under the
entity you already have. Is there ever a reason why
you'd recommend starting a separate entity.
Speaker 5 (34:10):
It could be a reason that you would start a
second entity. But because this entity has the past performance.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
You need to use that, right Okay.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
And there's a difference between past performance and past experience.
Explain that government sees that differently. So past experience means
Ashley is an attorney. And if you bid on a proposal,
instead of saying that I can show you that I
did a contract for attorney services for the government, I
can show you my past experience that I used in
my civilian realm that I was an attorney. That's your
(34:40):
experience that counts as well as past performance. Means I
have contracts that I've done that work and I perform.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
And you can find my.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
Separs government only government contracts or will private corporate contracts?
Speaker 6 (34:52):
Right will? They will take corporate contract.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
And they just want to see your experience.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
They want to see it.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Now.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
If I don't have the experience, could I pull that
experience from a team member that I hire, or how
does that work?
Speaker 5 (35:02):
It's according to the way they write the solicitation sometimes and.
Speaker 6 (35:05):
Then you have to remember, now the government is.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
Ran by people, yeah, and people are not perfect, So
you have a lot of issues that go on behind
the scenes with government contracting to so. But you can
allow all of those other things to deter you. I
look at it like this, It's just like a gumbo.
All of that's part of the ingredients in the gumbo.
(35:27):
But the outcome is this gumbo. It's gonna be delicious,
it's gonna be good, it's gonna be what I want.
And as long as I keep my mind there, then
I manifest the outcome that I'm looking for. But if
I get caught up and what's in the middle of
the gumbo that that's not right there, then you don't
get the outcome. So at the end of the day,
it's okay that that there are things in the middle
that you don't like, because at the end of the day,
(35:49):
all I'm thinking about is what I've my outcome, and
as I think of my outcome, it becomes my reality.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
All right. And listen, Ashley, I love that we got
to sit here in each job on this conversation, and
I just want to ask Michelle, if people are dealing
with you after this and coming to you for a mentorship,
will you be able to help with the We're getting
a general idea, but I know as she's going to
need help when it's time for her to start like
doing actually putting her bid in and doing things like
(36:16):
that and figuring out that process. Are you able to
help with that process too? Is that something that you're
going to do or.
Speaker 5 (36:23):
I will help to a degree. You know, I'm only
able to do so much. But I have a team,
and I have other people that you know, it's because
of them I'm successful. So, like right now, my team
is doing everything that I need them to do. They're
working on bits, they're doing those things, they're doing the pricing,
and I just want to take this time to just
give them a shout out. Yes, because I have let
(36:45):
me see, I have Melvin, I have Nikki, I have Sheila,
I have Rita Rita Is.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
They all have nicknames.
Speaker 5 (36:54):
I won't tell you their nicknames, but they all have nicknames.
I have Kiara, my daughter Kire. I have Roy, I
have Mike, I have Sean and dwell A. So I
have this this team and then we have partners. As
well that we partner with because you're not going to
always have everything that you need in house, and you
have to be okay with sharing a piece of the
(37:15):
pie because some money is better than no money, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
So, and less stress is always better too, Yeah, money
and stress.
Speaker 5 (37:23):
Yeah, So sometimes we choose which one is going to prime? Okay,
this time, you know what, I'm not gonna prime you prime.
I'll be yourself, you know. And so but all of
those things you're right there going to require additional training.
So what we want to do is create some training
modules and sessions that people can go back to and
they can listen to, and then I'll give them time
(37:44):
to ask me questions. The team is figuring out, Okay,
which day of the month that you want to just
just allow thirty minute segments for this group of people
that just ask you questions, then your next group of people.
Because different people are at different stages, so what I'm
talking to you about someone else may be a little
bit more advanced or less advanced.
Speaker 6 (38:03):
So we want to break all of that.
Speaker 5 (38:04):
Down and see what I can do to help them
understand how to look at their proposals, what to look
for uh, how to understand what the government wrote. See
that's the other piece, understanding what the what is the
government really saying here? And don't read too much in
it and don't read not enough into it. So those
are nuances that that we're going.
Speaker 6 (38:25):
To be able to help people.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
To do the work. Yes, you to do the actual work.
Speaker 6 (38:31):
Yes, I can only I can only lead the horse
to water.
Speaker 5 (38:36):
And I am not over there slavery slaving doing all
that slavery work.
Speaker 6 (38:41):
No, you want to reap the benefit, you can do
the work.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
We're just yea.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
Because again, if I work with people, I want to
be able to position them with a with a partner
that's going to give them a contrast. But but so
we're trying to think through how we want to do this,
because you need to perform in the class. If you're
the top performer, you know, I've been thinking about things
like that. If they're the top performer, I need to
have a partner that's already on deck and willing to
(39:09):
be a mentor and say, okay, out of this class
the top performer, then this company's going to take you
under their wing and they're going to make sure that
you get your first subcontract they're gonna you know, I
don't want people to come and listen to me and
they walk away and they just spent their money, they
don't get anything.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah, that's a failure to That's the difference between a
sponsor and a mentor.
Speaker 6 (39:27):
Y yeah, yeah, I don't you know, I'm not here
for that.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
And you do have to be careful about who you
do that for.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
But that is that is the biggest difference to a
sponsor a sponsorship.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I've watched her, Glinda Goodwich, I mean totally totally takes
a steak and everyone and that's why we're honored to
help you build this. And you can hashtag ask Michelle.
You can send questions to Wealth Wednesdays. You can send
I'll follow her on Instagram at Michelle Vegan's Anthony. And
one thing I want you both to touch on people
hear this and they see a million people out there
(39:58):
who say I can help you learn about government contracts.
Beware of bad actors.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
Yes, yes, if they tell you somebody you ask me
about beauty, Okay, the government does purchase and give contracts
in the beauty realm.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
It's okay.
Speaker 5 (40:15):
One of the instances is for like cancer patients. Okay,
say the Veterans Administration. They have to take care of veterans.
So if a veteran gets cancer, the VA will will
buy wigs. They buy wigs, you know. But for someone
saying that they'll pay for your manicure, your pedicure, please
don't give them your money. Please, I beg you don't
(40:38):
do that. You know, you gotta use some reason and
common sense. Yeah, to the government buys it pretty much everything.
But they're not paying for your beauty needs. They're not
doing that. And they're not paying for their staff's beauty needs.
They're not doing that, you know, because that's a waste
of our tax payer dollars. You know, when you start,
you know, doing things of that nature. But like I said,
if there's a medical need or something like that, yes
(41:00):
they do, they will provide that. When you look at
medical products, like if people are in the hospital, there's
a huge, huge volume of business for medical products and
supplies everything from band aids, masks, gloves, you name it,
medical products. But a lot of times, because they can't
do a trillion little small onesie tuoesie contracts, they bundle
(41:24):
them and so once you get in the right relationship
with people who can move it in volume then, and
that means you got to have character. You have to
have character, you have to have integrity. And as you
do that improve yourself. People will give you the chance.
They just will.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
And beware of the bad actor saying they can help
you with government contract Yeah.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
Yeah, if it sounds like it's just too easy when
it comes down to government contracting, it is because you're
going to have to put in the work. But if
you make up in your mind and you put in
the work, I promise you you will do well. You
will exceed your own expectations, and a million dollars in
revenue will be something you laugh about.
Speaker 6 (42:05):
It just will.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
About that.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
It will be, you know, because I heard something once
that only three percent of women earn a million dollars
in their business. And that was sad to me. It
was sad to me because we work so hard, and
you know, we drive so much with the engine. And
the other thing I'll say about small businesses, the difference
is we really do drive our government and we drive
our economy. Because the larger businesses can take their money
(42:33):
and they can invest it offshore. They don't care about
whether or not the US has whatever they need, but
it's small businesses. When we get that chance, we go
above and beyond. You know what I'm saying, because we
like Look, we know I got this chance. You heard
me say, you can't not perform. But large businesses they
fail to perform all the time.
Speaker 6 (42:50):
Yea.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
And when you build that reputation that you that go to,
you want to become their go to whenever they have
a problem in their mind. You want them to think
about you. That's what you want to become. But you
can't do that off of somebody else's reputation, off of
somebody else's sweat equity. You have to get your own
and when you do, it will pay you over and
over and over.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Amazing. And Ashley, I can have you leave without telling
us about Black Women Sell Live, just so people who
are listening get to know about that.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
So you know what Michelle said is true. Three percent
of women own businesses make a million dollars. We don't
know the stats exactly for black women owned businesses, but
I know that it's less than three percent, right, And
so what we're doing at Black Women's Sell Live very
simply is we are helping black women learn to sell
in the private contracting space.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
We teach direct outreach.
Speaker 4 (43:41):
So we've landed contracts with Avy Pharmaceuticals, Blue Cross, Blue Shield,
major corporations by reaching out directly, going directly in their
LinkedIn in boxes, going directly through emails, and building relationships
that way, and having a sales conversation, having a sales call,
and then closing the deal. You don't need a large
Instagram following, you don't have to be an influencer for it.
You don't need startup capital, you need a laptop. You
(44:03):
need the ability to have sales conversations, tell people how
they can do business with you, what you're going to
give to them, and then close the sale. But I
found that sometimes, you know, women particularly will be like, well, I.
Speaker 3 (44:15):
Don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want
to put myself out there. I don't want to say
too much.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
And so Black Women Sell Live is an assembling of
black women experts, and we're teaching direct sales principles, right messaging,
right audience, right fit. We've worked with thousands of women
entrepreneurs to do this, and it's something that I'm very
passionate about because before I was a lawyer. I actually
did cold calling, So I've done over twenty thousand cold calls.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
I was rejected over ninety times a day.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
And what I found is that once I got to
that ninetieth rejection, I would get so happy because I
was like, this means that's off of the law numbers,
Like I am going to close it deal now, like
I've gotten my rejections in. So the best thing that
ever happened to me was I learned how to properly
handle rejection and nose because once you're not scared of
know you can always go after any opportunity. So at
(45:03):
Black Women Sell Live, we're really teaching women one to
learn who you are for real, not who your business
said you were, not who your auntie and your mama
said you were if that wasn't an appropriate classification of you.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
But you got to know who you are.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
Once you know who you are, you can go after
any opportunity, even if it means you may get rejected
and your rejections go down. The better you are at
explaining what you do. So we're gonna teach you write audience,
write fit, and how to sell and close the deal.
And that's what we're doing in October and Atlanta, Georgia
at Black Women's.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Cell Lives and how can people find out about it?
Speaker 3 (45:34):
They can go to black Women sell event dot com.
Speaker 4 (45:36):
And the theme this year, you guys, is black women
the world's strongest superheroes.
Speaker 6 (45:41):
So it's.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Yeah because everyone tells us, you know, take your cape off.
You don't need to be superwomen. But if you put
a cape in your hand, A cape isn't heavy, it's
your thoughts that are heavy. Use that cape to lift
you up, use your superpowers. Don't let your thoughts overwhelm you.
Get a clear head so you can dominate in business
and it won't cost you everything else.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
You love, you too, are perfect. Our whole goal this
month is to get people to stop thinking small yank you.
Oh yeah, thank you both, Thank you, Thank you for
having me a.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Great wealth Wednesday. Thank you guys. I can't wait to
hear about this next one hundred million dollars.
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Yes, you're gonna come back. We have to see how
her advice helped you. Have to come back for sure.
Speaker 3 (46:20):
I will thank you, Michelle.
Speaker 4 (46:21):
I want to you know, thank you and give you
honor for being a trailblazer and being a woman who
I can look to and Jesseee, that is possible.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
You know, You're.
Speaker 4 (46:28):
Decorum, your grace, the piece that you carry with you,
it means a lot as a representative thing. And even
the nuggets you gave us before this incredible. So thank
you guys so much for having us and bringing us on.
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Thank you,
Way Up With Angela Yee News
Host
Angela Yee
Show Links
Official WebsitePopular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.