April 30, 2023 • 27 mins
John is talking draft and discusses what was behind Kentucky QB Will Levis falling to the second round, why he’s in a perfect spot to rebound with Vrabel and the Titans, why the Eagles are the perfect landing spot for Georgie DL Jalen Carter, why the Falcons taking Texas RB Bijan Robinson was a headscratcher, and which 1st round picks he liked the most.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The volume What is going on? Everybody's John middlecop three
and out podcast. There's gonna be no mail bag this weekend. Instead,
(00:21):
I'm just gonna do a little add on to talking
with Coward. We obviously did a podcast on Friday, so
I didn't do a Friday podcast. Not gonna do a
mail bag. I just recorded this right basically after the
second round, some thoughts on Will Levitz, some takes that
just expanded on some stuff that we talked about, and
just some other things that kind of hit me throughout
(00:43):
the day on Friday. And yeah, we'll have a much
more expansive draft pod come next week on Monday, but
this will have to do for the weekend. Hopefully everyone
is enjoying the draft. A lot going on of trades,
a lot of players flying around, which it's always fun.
(01:03):
This is a hard to beat this event, it really is.
Even if this is the worst draft of all time,
who cares. I've really really enjoyed it and it's always
exciting to get new players on our team. There's no
way around it. So the Middlecoff Mailbag will be back
next week at John Middlecoff at John Middlecoff as the
Instagram fire in those dms and get your question answered
(01:23):
here on the show at John Middlecoff fire in those dms,
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on YouTube as well, and other than that, I don't
think we have any other housekeeping. So so yeah, let's
rock and roll, baby. But I got to start by
giving a shot out on I'm back right now in
(01:45):
Northern California. I got a family event on Saturday, and
I went to the Kings Warriors game and it was electric.
It was incredible to watch the champs pull out a
win on the road. They're playing literally as I speak.
But I did it because of my friends game Time,
And if you download the game Time app and use
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(02:07):
your first pair of tickets. I went to the game
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(02:29):
at my guys at game time, download the app and
just use my promo code. John very very easy to do.
Love those guys. I think we got to start with
will Levis. A lot of different angles here, I guess
was the most shocking. Two guys did not make it
that went to the green room, the Alabama corner who
(02:50):
I think he went to the Lions came back. Will
Levis obviously did not, but ultimately got drafted with the
second pick in the second round, which typically the thirty
third pick right is the first pick in the second round.
But obviously Miami was docked over some of the Tom
Brady allegations, so it was we only had thirty one
first round picks. I want to start with the Will
(03:14):
Levis bombing interviews and kind of rubbing teams the wrong way.
That was a story that really, you know, Colin and
I myself talked about it that you know, when teams
met with Anthony Richardson, they came out with just positive vibes,
and there's something to be said for positive vibes, and
there's something to be said for whatever reason, for negative vibes.
(03:38):
And there is no disputing that something weird happened because
a guy that size with that arm strength, that would
have been a top five pick after his junior year.
Is head scratching. Now, when I was going to get dinner,
I picked it up a little early, you know, kind
of fasted today ate at about four o'clock, right when
the draft started. I was listening to NFL radio on
(03:59):
my way to pick up some Mexican food. Fantastic dos
coyotes if you're ever in Davis, Sacramento area, and no
free ads, but it's a leaf food. And Pat Kerwin
and the guys on an NFL network or NFL radio
because I wanted if I was going to miss picks.
I was listening to the radio and one of the guys,
I think it was Pat, said that, you know, he
should have gone to the Senior Bowl, Like, you're not
(04:20):
good enough to not go to the Senior Bowl. Justin
Herbert went to the Senior Bowl, Marcus Mariota went to
the Senior Bowl. And then clearly and listen, I have
a hard time with this because I think interviews, if
you're an athlete, if you're a coach, if you're anyone
in any specific industry, talking to other people in your
industry should be the easiest thing you ever do Like
(04:42):
I'm not trying to brag or act like I have
anything in common with a you know, an NFL quarterback.
But when I interviewed with Philly, I got hired on
the spot. Why because I was very at ease talking
with other football guys, just like a lot of times
that impressive players walk by, they're very at ease with
assistant coaches, with gms, with head coaches. Why, football guys
(05:05):
like other football guys, and if you're a good guy,
a normal guy, and not some fraud, it should be
a very very natural environment. It's why most quarterbacks I
think teams are reluctant because it's like they know the
drill that they should be impressive. When they sit down
on the couch and you start talking football, it should
(05:25):
come out very natural. And clearly something was lost in translation.
Now I liked him as a player and I still
do and ultimately, in life, it's not about where you start,
it's about how you finish. Now, like what everyone thought CJ.
Stroud was gonna tumble, and he clearly didn't. Starting high
in the NFL financially is very lucrative. Right, He's going
(05:47):
to sign a four year, thirty thirty five million dollar
contract and Will Lewis will sign a four year, four
or five million dollar contract. So financially there is a
massive gap. And every penny of those three quarterbacks that
were drafting the top four of those four years will
be guaranteed. So it's a big gap in terms of money.
But ultimately, like I was on the radio on the
(06:09):
Raiders station when Derek Carr was drafted in the second
round by the Oakland Raiders, with how much money he's
made since going in the second round. And when you
look at Will Levis, think of where he's going. He
has a top easily top ten head coach in the
NFL and Mike for Abel. He has a quarterback situation
that everyone thinks Ryan Tannehill stinks and his time in
(06:31):
Tennessee is all but over. I don't think it's inconceivable
that Levis definitely is gonna play this year, but could
beat him out, like what are they waiting on? And
the other thing is when you draft a guy high
in the second round, you like the player. And I
watched the clip that the Titans tweeted out and Mike Vrabel.
(06:53):
It was funny because when I think of Mike Vrabel
I think of, you know, kind of an old school
crazy SOB in a football god away, and he told
Will Levis, He's like, listen, I don't want you to
have a chip on your shoulder. I don't want you
to be mad. I want you to be grateful, and
I want you to come in and be a good
teammate and come in and just work hard, just do
(07:14):
all the right things. I don't want you being pissed
off and angry. Come in here with the right mindset.
And at first I was like, brave boll like you're
a chip on your shoulder, edgsob. And then I thought like, well,
from his vantage point as a coach, this guy I
got to get his head right because clearly he thought
he was going top five. And then he tumbles and
then it's coming out. Everyone's just shitting on him, Like
(07:36):
we need to get this guy locked a little because
who knows, he could be our starting quarterback. Maybe we
found a gym, I don't know, but just a fascinating
kind of fall from grace, a fascinating landing spot. And
think about this, Will Levis, who you know, is clearly
not a lock to start, and neither is Anthony Richardson. CJ.
Stroud to me is one dred percent a lock to
(07:58):
be the starter a week. One had to be in
Trevor Lawrence today, who really broke out of a shell
last year. Who has Doug Peterson, Calvin Ridley's coming back
from the gambling suspension, don't wait. I got Will Levison, Tanniel,
I got Anthony Richardson, who's might be a year away
from being a year away. And I got CJ. Stroud
on a team that's terrible, who a lot of people
(08:18):
compare him to a little quicker Jared Goff. This is
who I got to beat. This ain't exactly mahomes Herbert,
you know, this isn't exactly you know, Joe Burrow and
Lamar Jackson. So that division opened him pretty wide up
for old Trevor Lawrence and the Jacksonville Jags and Doug
Peterson Trimbalke. Pretty good spot to be if you're then.
(08:40):
But ultimately, like people fall in the draft, And I
always thought about this because when I got to when
I got hired with the Eagles, you know, two of
our best players were Deshaun Jackson and Shady McCoy. Like
going in the second round does not mean you suck,
does not mean you're some scrub. Google NFL history. A
lot of star players go in the second round. They're
only thirty one or three to two picks every year, right,
(09:02):
depending on you know, weird stuff that happens around the league.
But a lot of teams, like, especially if you're a
certain position, like, aren't going to take that position. So
I think sometimes we kind of freak out about the
whole notion of you know, this guy went picked thirty six.
That's not like you're some undrafted free agent. My man.
They're still guaranteeing you some money, and they still invested
(09:24):
a very, very valued pick in you. So I think
it's will Levis thing is every bit as fascinating as
Anthony Richardson as the CJ. Trout situation. I mean, Bryce
is just going to be the starter. But this is
not some underclassmen, right, This is a guy that a
lot of years of starting experience played in an NFL offense.
You would have to think, especially one of the Titans
(09:46):
like Ryan Tannehill. Now they do have a defensive coach,
wouldn't stun me if Will Levis is the starter Week one?
Not because they think he's, you know, going to lead
them to the promised Land, but might as well find out.
Maybe we suck, maybe we pick it, you know, another
quarterback next year. Malik Willis that experiments died on the
vine pretty fast. Some things that I talked to Colin
about last night. I don't think we got to expand on.
(10:08):
I want to hit on something two things really quick.
The running back thing, I philosophically agree with every single
human being that is. Yeah, I think ninety nine point
nine percent of people are all on the same page.
Don't take a running back in the first round. That
is a core value of anyone that falls football. That
is the right move. Take an old lineman, take a
(10:29):
d lineman, Take a wide receiver, Take whatever running backs
you can find later in the draft, just like I'm
fundamentally kind of against taking guards and centers in the
first round because I feel I can find those guys
later in the draft. Right tackles, left tackles, pass rushers,
d tackles, premium positions. All four it and all four
continue to take them throughout the draft. But I do
think this draft's a little bit of an outlier because
(10:51):
I don't know if you heard, but last night, the
Cowboys who drafted the d tackle from Michigan, who just
that guy feels like a stud. He he only watched
the draft with his mom, and it's just like, that
guy's going to be a good player. Just love his story.
If you get a chance, go to the Cowboys you know, Twitter,
Instagram account. It just seems like a high level guy.
(11:12):
Obviously Naskaker playing on Michigan's d line. But this draft
was terrible, and the Cowboys said last night in their
press conference that they had eleven guys with first round grades.
And I would imagine if you polled NFL teams and
they had to tell you the truth. I think the
average on first round grades in this draft would probably
(11:33):
be like twelve point five or thirteen point five, it'd
be really, really small. So when you think about running backs,
obviously b John Robinson, you know, on many boards, might
have been the second behind Jalen Carter, second or third
best player in this draft. And I think there's a
very good chance that Gibbs, the running back the Lions took,
(11:54):
was also given a first round grade. I've heard a
lot of people compare him to Christian McCaffrey or yeah,
some Christian McCaffrey, Alvin Kamara. He's a very versatile chess piece. Now,
you don't want to take him at seven overall, though
I think it was leaked out that the Lions were
open to doing that, or maybe it was six overall
was their pick. Let's start with the Atlanta Falcons. They
(12:15):
averaged one hundred and sixty yards on the ground last year.
They drafted a fifth round running back out of BYU
who was good. They've drafted Drake London, they drafted Kyle Pitts.
Like offensive skill guys are not their issue. Their problem
is defense and it fucking stinks. So I'm in full agreement.
B John Robinson, stud player, stud guy. Want him on
(12:39):
my team. But when my defense blows and my head coach,
who's also in a play caller, is a great run schemer,
why am I taking B John Robinson? Why don't I,
I don't know, take a defensive lineman, That's what I
would have done, right. I can't fathom taking B John
Robinson in that spot. I really can't. And to win
(13:01):
in the NFC, the physical teams are the best teams, right,
The Eagles, the Niners, the Cowboys. I think the Giants
are building a physical mentality, so why they beat the
Giants in the playoffs, and that's why the beat the
Minnesota Vikings. Excuse me in the playoffs. Physical team. Seattle's
trying to build a bully. It's a physical it's a
heavyweight fighter. They want to fucking knock you out. So
(13:24):
I get the mindset, But that means you got to
be good on defense too. That means you need pieces
on defense too. So I this is not has anything
to do with b John Robinson. I just don't understand
the pick yet. With the Lions, I kind of do
because of the Stafford trade, and once they traded back
to twelve, they got whoever they wanted to take at
twelve and pick thirty four, so they got that. They
(13:48):
ended up taking the running back obviously, but they also
got another pick to go with them, which ended up,
as you if you watched the draft today, was a
tight end. So if I told you with their first
three picks in the top thirty four they got a
running back, a tight end, and a front seven player,
you'd be like, oh, good job, right. But if I
tell you the running back goes first, that's when everyone
(14:09):
freaks out and I talk to teams that you know,
I don't know, might have been in the NFC Championship
or the Super Bowl, and I think we're all in
agreement that the players going in the twenties were better
in the teams because I don't know if anyone knows
if these players are gonna be any good because there
weren't that many highly drafted, highly graded guys in this draft.
So if you're the Lions and you have thirteen first
round picks and Gibbs is one of them, and you
(14:31):
trade back to twelve, why not take them there? Especially
when you know to get there that you got basically
the first pick or second pick in the second round,
and you also got another first round pick because of
the Stafford trade, unlike the Falcons. So in the top
forty five picks the Detroit Lions, I'm defending the Lions,
and I think the Falcons are crazy because ultimately the
(14:53):
Lions had four picks in the top forty five, and
three of those guys you know, would quote unquote be
physical trenches guys separate from the running back. They took
the tight end from Iowa, who you know they needed
a tight end. They easily could have taken a tight
end at twelve, they took the corner from Alabama at
forty five, and obviously in the late teens they took
(15:15):
the linebacker who's a freak athlete from Iowa. So like
I completely understand what the Lions did, I do not
understand what the Atlanta Falcons did. Would be John Robinson.
Can't wrap my head around it. I saw Chris Ballard
say today that this was Friday, No, this would have
been Thursday night at his press conference that I was
(15:38):
kind of bullshit of all the negative stuff that was
coming out about players, and ultimately I think who we
was talking about was just the Lions just took Kendon
Hooker was CJ Stroud and some of the negative dialect
or dialogue around c J Stroud, And honestly, I thought,
(15:59):
like kind of pissed me off. I'm like, that's none
of this matters. C J. Stroud got drafted second overall,
second overall. So all the stuff going on on the
internet about Ryan Clark and Brady Quinn arguing back and
forth about his test score leaking, and here's the thing
with the test score. If you're going to leak the
(16:21):
good test scores, who scored poorly. Now ultimately, like trust me,
if test scores determine where you win life, I'd be
digging ditches. I barely got over a thousand on my SAT.
I hate STANDARDRIDS test. Now I know this is more
of a This isn't a cognitive test in the term
in the sense of you know, ABC and D. This
(16:41):
is more like tapping things to get your reaction time.
But still, like I c J. Stroud clearly was unfazed
by that. Like I said, he just he hasn't signed
it yet, but we'll get a four year, thirty to
thirty five million dollar contract and twenty five to twenty
eight million dollars signing bonus. That's a fact. So all
the fluff about him over the last month is ultimately irrelevant.
(17:04):
And one thing these gms like Ballard have learned to
do is play the media, play their Twitter accounts, and
play their TV appearances like a fucking fiddle. And Chris
Ballard had everyone going will Levis is going to the Colts.
They love will Levis why because it was good business.
Because think about this, they didn't want anyone to jump
(17:25):
them to the Cardinals who were open for business and
take Anthony Richardson, Well, it turns out like Will Levis
tumbled like a rock. He was the actual guy that fell.
And Ballard's like acting like all these people leaking this
stuff are doing it for any other reason than I
don't know, business. That's the business. You've chose, Chris to
(17:47):
put give things to the media which they all take
and run with and listen, I'm guilty. I fell for
some of the stuff they were feeding me and feeding
us and to try to get guys to fall or
have guys not steal your player. So I just think
that that notion is just no who cares what his
test scoring. He's either gonna be good at football or not,
and he's going to be rich because of it. So
(18:09):
I hated that. It actually kind of pissed me off,
and thinking of a guy I've gotten a lot of
dms from like Falcons fans and definitely from Bears fans
of like why didn't we just take Jalen Carter and
and me and Colin talked about this after the first
round one thing the Eagles had and I hammered this home,
(18:30):
not just the SEC guys, but the leadership, the veteran
guys in the room. I remember, like my first or
second year in the NFL, the Giants took JPP and
at the time, he just had some red flags, some
question marks, raw product, and it was like, well they
can handle them. Why in that room. They got tucknoc
(18:50):
whom or in Kiwanuka and they have the infrastructure there
to handle them. I think his rookie year they won
the Super Bowl. And certain organizations are just equick to
handle certain guys and other organizations are not. Jalen Carter
would immediately be the best player in the Chicago Bears.
He would immediately be discussed, if not the best player
(19:12):
in the Atlanta Falcons. That is not the case. He's
not even the best defensive lineman on the Philadelphia Eagles.
He's definitely not the best player. And he's definitely like
all these guys that were on his own team have
been playing for a team that just was in the
Super Bowl. So now they've equipped four Georgia guys the
(19:35):
last two years to be around them, and three of
the four of them no question marks. I mean, Nolan
Smith's character is elite. Dean's character, I think pretty sure
from what I've heard, is elite, and Jordan Davis. I've
never heard anything negative. So three of the four of
them high level guys. He doesn't really have a choice.
Just like at Georgia, he didn't really have a choice,
like you either got to play hard or get out.
(19:57):
So you know, the Eagles are were much more equipped
even the Lions, Like Whden Lions, they could have just
drafted them in the top ten, right and if they
didn't want to trade back, well, think about their operation.
Their best defensive player is going to be a second
year guy. If Aiden Hutchinson was a seventh year guy,
five time pro bowler, and they had some other core
(20:17):
guys they felt really good about, I'd be like, yeah,
that was a missed opportunity. You got Dan Campbell, kind
of a player's coach. That's what I would have done.
But that's not the case. So I think the Eagles
were uniquely equipped to do that. They really were. You
could argue Seattle, but I think Seattle, you know, kind
of wants to reincarnate the lob operation, which is smart
(20:39):
and just run the ball down your throat with like
seven running backs before I'm gonna hit on a couple
of first round picks that I really liked. That I
didn't get to get through with Colin is God. The
Cardinals are a poorly run organization. Like there are some
every team is talking to players about contracts, you know,
well before free agency, like that's no one tampering, it's
(21:01):
all bullshit. But like when it comes to coaches, you know,
there are pretty just set rules about interviewing coaches, And
that the Cardinals tampered with Jonathan Gannon is one of
the most insane things I've ever seen. And because of that,
the Eagles got their third round pick. Like that's just
that's pretty bad man. That It really is pretty embarrassing
(21:24):
for the Arizona Cardinals, who are a team that I'm
telling you, with Washington now in different ownership's hands, the
league is going to set their sights on the Cards
and the Las Vegas Raiders. Let's get on a couple
of picks that I really liked, first and foremost, the
Bills to get the Utah tight end Dalton Kincaid at
(21:45):
pick twenty five. Like one thing you know they've I
think they've lacked a physical run element to their team,
but I also think that everything When you play in
this freezing cold environment, it's hard for your quarterback to
just throw bombs all the time. It's like Aaron Rodgers
over the years. Once they get to Lambeau in January,
(22:07):
it neutralizes some of their strengths. Just slinging the pill around.
You're not able to do that in zero degrees. Well, Buffalo,
same thing, like, we need to have a physical element
and to me, adding a tight end who comes from
a cold weather place, you know, is the next best
thing behind a running back. I think they drafted a
guard in the second round as well. You just need
(22:29):
guys that are gonna make it easy on your quarterback.
Whether that's a physical runner between the tackles, whether that's
a tight end, whether that's offensive lineman. Not everything can
be you know, Davis and Diggs and just throwing bombs.
It's not the NFL in January. That's not how Tom
Brady won six Super Bowls. Peyton Manning dominated, right, that's
(22:52):
not the way. And I love that pick, I really
just like I love the Cowboys. One thing the Cowboys
are gonna have to do. They're going to catch the Niners.
They've lost the Niners two straight years in the playoffs,
and obviously the Eagles are better than them. Is they
have to continue to match their physicality, and they were
damn close to matching it last year with against the Niners.
(23:13):
I mean they were damn close. Dak screwed them through
those picks, but their defense was right there. So you
had another piece. Well, what does Kyle Shanahan want to do?
Wants to run the ball. What does Brian da Ball
want to do? It's going to want to run the ball.
The Eagles obviously they throw bombs, but the run game,
especially with their quarterback, is a big part of their offense.
(23:34):
So getting Mazie Smith from Michigan, when you think of Michigan,
like they kind of overpowered and shoved around Ohio State
the last couple years, get a tough guy. Love those
back to back picks, really Kincaid Smith, some other picks,
like the Packers have always been a highweight, speed team.
They love swinging for that, and I tend to lean
that way too, Like I get it, I understand it.
(23:56):
They did it last year with Watson out of North
Dakota State and by the end of the season you're like, damn,
this kid can kind of ball. And Lucas van Ess,
I know he didn't start on his team, but One
thing you see every year is Iowa gets like three
or four guys drafted in the first two rounds. They
produce NFL guys did play in the league for a
long time. They might suck on offense, but it is
(24:18):
an NFL operation, the way you train, the way you
prepare the physicality of the team, and definitely defensively. So
kind of like that pick, I really do. I mean,
there are a lot of picks that Gonzales the quarter
from Oregon. I think he's a Colorado transfer breed. Dion Sanders.
(24:38):
One thing I heard, like I had some good teams
were like, yeah, we would not have drafted him and
had to do with confidence. They didn't see like part
of being a really good corner. Like say what you
want about Jalen Ramsey, he might have too much swag,
but his self belief is incredibly high. You know, Dion
is the most notorious ever. This guy just thought he
(25:01):
was the best ever. Richard Sherman Darrell reeves like, you
kind of got to be wired a little different to
play on the outside. One thing I've heard about him
lacks a little self confidence and that turns a lot
of teams off at that position, Like you kind of
have you you have to almost have an inflated belief
in yourself because it's so fucking hard to play out
there on an island. And I know physically he's very,
(25:22):
very talented, but I've heard a lot of teams that
just you know, didn't quite see the guy. Not in
a bad way, but like to play that corner almost
kind of need a guy that, like you, really think
you're that good. Well that they have to or else
they don't have a shot, not in the NFL, not
in the AFC, not against all those wide receivers, not
against all those cornerbacks. It's too difficult. The run of
(25:46):
wide receivers I think was pretty interesting. Jackson Smith, the
TCU guys A Flowers basically went twenty twenty one, twenty two,
Addison went twenty three. You know, I don't know if
you saw, but the forty nine picked up I can't
even remember his name, Brandon Ayuk his fifth year option today.
(26:09):
And I do wonder that if some of these wide
receivers have gone early earlier than they did, and those
teams that really wanted a wide receiver in the early twenties,
if they were going to trade Brandon Ayuk if the
player they wanted was there, because there have been a
lot of talk about could Brandon but Ayuk be moved
And I don't think they were just going to trade
him to trade him for a wide receiver, like they
(26:29):
wouldn't trade Brandon Ayuk to draft Jordan Adison. But if
the right tackle had fallen, you know, with McGlinchey leaving,
I could have seen that, and I do wonder if
that was at play, and listen, I'd keep Brandon Nyuk
and obviously they did. But you got to keep your
options open this league, especially when you got a lot
of highly paid guys. You know, Addison's really good, say
(26:49):
Flowers really good. I didn't love the TCU wide receiver
as much, but my buddies in the league did, So
what do I know. They're on teams that went a
lot of aames and obviously Jackson Smith is a baller.
So love Seattle's draft, as Colin and I talked about,
and yeah, I mean, what a time to be alive.
(27:10):
I mean it really is. So I'll I have a
much longer podcast on Sunday from Monday morning, kind of
recapping everything that happened and some more big stories. But
just wanted to come back because no middle cooff mail
bag and hammer this out. Okay, Audios. The volume
The volume What is going on? Everybody's John middlecop three
and out podcast. There's gonna be no mail bag this weekend. Instead,
(00:21):
I'm just gonna do a little add on to talking
with Coward. We obviously did a podcast on Friday, so
I didn't do a Friday podcast. Not gonna do a
mail bag. I just recorded this right basically after the
second round, some thoughts on Will Levitz, some takes that
just expanded on some stuff that we talked about, and
just some other things that kind of hit me throughout
(00:43):
the day on Friday. And yeah, we'll have a much
more expansive draft pod come next week on Monday, but
this will have to do for the weekend. Hopefully everyone
is enjoying the draft. A lot going on of trades,
a lot of players flying around, which it's always fun.
(01:03):
This is a hard to beat this event, it really is.
Even if this is the worst draft of all time,
who cares. I've really really enjoyed it and it's always
exciting to get new players on our team. There's no
way around it. So the Middlecoff Mailbag will be back
next week at John Middlecoff at John Middlecoff as the
Instagram fire in those dms and get your question answered
(01:23):
here on the show at John Middlecoff fire in those dms,
get your questions answered here on the show. We're live
on AMP, Live on app, download Amazon Amp, find it
on YouTube as well, and other than that, I don't
think we have any other housekeeping. So so yeah, let's
rock and roll, baby. But I got to start by
giving a shot out on I'm back right now in
(01:45):
Northern California. I got a family event on Saturday, and
I went to the Kings Warriors game and it was electric.
It was incredible to watch the champs pull out a
win on the road. They're playing literally as I speak.
But I did it because of my friends game Time,
And if you download the game Time app and use
the promo code John, you will get twenty dollars off
(02:07):
your first pair of tickets. I went to the game
because of my friends, had great seats, was close to
the court, rocking and rolling. It was sweet. Can't recommend
him enough, really, can't game Time Download the app there
the official ticketing app of this podcast. If you're going
to go to a game, if you're going to go
to a concert, anything you want to go do, look
(02:29):
at my guys at game time, download the app and
just use my promo code. John very very easy to do.
Love those guys. I think we got to start with
will Levis. A lot of different angles here, I guess
was the most shocking. Two guys did not make it
that went to the green room, the Alabama corner who
(02:50):
I think he went to the Lions came back. Will
Levis obviously did not, but ultimately got drafted with the
second pick in the second round, which typically the thirty
third pick right is the first pick in the second round.
But obviously Miami was docked over some of the Tom
Brady allegations, so it was we only had thirty one
first round picks. I want to start with the Will
(03:14):
Levis bombing interviews and kind of rubbing teams the wrong way.
That was a story that really, you know, Colin and
I myself talked about it that you know, when teams
met with Anthony Richardson, they came out with just positive vibes,
and there's something to be said for positive vibes, and
there's something to be said for whatever reason, for negative vibes.
(03:38):
And there is no disputing that something weird happened because
a guy that size with that arm strength, that would
have been a top five pick after his junior year.
Is head scratching. Now, when I was going to get dinner,
I picked it up a little early, you know, kind
of fasted today ate at about four o'clock, right when
the draft started. I was listening to NFL radio on
(03:59):
my way to pick up some Mexican food. Fantastic dos
coyotes if you're ever in Davis, Sacramento area, and no
free ads, but it's a leaf food. And Pat Kerwin
and the guys on an NFL network or NFL radio
because I wanted if I was going to miss picks.
I was listening to the radio and one of the guys,
I think it was Pat, said that, you know, he
should have gone to the Senior Bowl, Like, you're not
(04:20):
good enough to not go to the Senior Bowl. Justin
Herbert went to the Senior Bowl, Marcus Mariota went to
the Senior Bowl. And then clearly and listen, I have
a hard time with this because I think interviews, if
you're an athlete, if you're a coach, if you're anyone
in any specific industry, talking to other people in your
industry should be the easiest thing you ever do Like
(04:42):
I'm not trying to brag or act like I have
anything in common with a you know, an NFL quarterback.
But when I interviewed with Philly, I got hired on
the spot. Why because I was very at ease talking
with other football guys, just like a lot of times
that impressive players walk by, they're very at ease with
assistant coaches, with gms, with head coaches. Why, football guys
(05:05):
like other football guys, and if you're a good guy,
a normal guy, and not some fraud, it should be
a very very natural environment. It's why most quarterbacks I
think teams are reluctant because it's like they know the
drill that they should be impressive. When they sit down
on the couch and you start talking football, it should
(05:25):
come out very natural. And clearly something was lost in translation.
Now I liked him as a player and I still
do and ultimately, in life, it's not about where you start,
it's about how you finish. Now, like what everyone thought CJ.
Stroud was gonna tumble, and he clearly didn't. Starting high
in the NFL financially is very lucrative. Right, He's going
(05:47):
to sign a four year, thirty thirty five million dollar
contract and Will Lewis will sign a four year, four
or five million dollar contract. So financially there is a
massive gap. And every penny of those three quarterbacks that
were drafting the top four of those four years will
be guaranteed. So it's a big gap in terms of money.
But ultimately, like I was on the radio on the
(06:09):
Raiders station when Derek Carr was drafted in the second
round by the Oakland Raiders, with how much money he's
made since going in the second round. And when you
look at Will Levis, think of where he's going. He
has a top easily top ten head coach in the
NFL and Mike for Abel. He has a quarterback situation
that everyone thinks Ryan Tannehill stinks and his time in
(06:31):
Tennessee is all but over. I don't think it's inconceivable
that Levis definitely is gonna play this year, but could
beat him out, like what are they waiting on? And
the other thing is when you draft a guy high
in the second round, you like the player. And I
watched the clip that the Titans tweeted out and Mike Vrabel.
(06:53):
It was funny because when I think of Mike Vrabel
I think of, you know, kind of an old school
crazy SOB in a football god away, and he told
Will Levis, He's like, listen, I don't want you to
have a chip on your shoulder. I don't want you
to be mad. I want you to be grateful, and
I want you to come in and be a good
teammate and come in and just work hard, just do
(07:14):
all the right things. I don't want you being pissed
off and angry. Come in here with the right mindset.
And at first I was like, brave boll like you're
a chip on your shoulder, edgsob. And then I thought like, well,
from his vantage point as a coach, this guy I
got to get his head right because clearly he thought
he was going top five. And then he tumbles and
then it's coming out. Everyone's just shitting on him, Like
(07:36):
we need to get this guy locked a little because
who knows, he could be our starting quarterback. Maybe we
found a gym, I don't know, but just a fascinating
kind of fall from grace, a fascinating landing spot. And
think about this, Will Levis, who you know, is clearly
not a lock to start, and neither is Anthony Richardson. CJ.
Stroud to me is one dred percent a lock to
(07:58):
be the starter a week. One had to be in
Trevor Lawrence today, who really broke out of a shell
last year. Who has Doug Peterson, Calvin Ridley's coming back
from the gambling suspension, don't wait. I got Will Levison, Tanniel,
I got Anthony Richardson, who's might be a year away
from being a year away. And I got CJ. Stroud
on a team that's terrible, who a lot of people
(08:18):
compare him to a little quicker Jared Goff. This is
who I got to beat. This ain't exactly mahomes Herbert,
you know, this isn't exactly you know, Joe Burrow and
Lamar Jackson. So that division opened him pretty wide up
for old Trevor Lawrence and the Jacksonville Jags and Doug
Peterson Trimbalke. Pretty good spot to be if you're then.
(08:40):
But ultimately, like people fall in the draft, And I
always thought about this because when I got to when
I got hired with the Eagles, you know, two of
our best players were Deshaun Jackson and Shady McCoy. Like
going in the second round does not mean you suck,
does not mean you're some scrub. Google NFL history. A
lot of star players go in the second round. They're
only thirty one or three to two picks every year, right,
(09:02):
depending on you know, weird stuff that happens around the league.
But a lot of teams, like, especially if you're a
certain position, like, aren't going to take that position. So
I think sometimes we kind of freak out about the
whole notion of you know, this guy went picked thirty six.
That's not like you're some undrafted free agent. My man.
They're still guaranteeing you some money, and they still invested
(09:24):
a very, very valued pick in you. So I think
it's will Levis thing is every bit as fascinating as
Anthony Richardson as the CJ. Trout situation. I mean, Bryce
is just going to be the starter. But this is
not some underclassmen, right, This is a guy that a
lot of years of starting experience played in an NFL offense.
You would have to think, especially one of the Titans
(09:46):
like Ryan Tannehill. Now they do have a defensive coach,
wouldn't stun me if Will Levis is the starter Week one?
Not because they think he's, you know, going to lead
them to the promised Land, but might as well find out.
Maybe we suck, maybe we pick it, you know, another
quarterback next year. Malik Willis that experiments died on the
vine pretty fast. Some things that I talked to Colin
about last night. I don't think we got to expand on.
(10:08):
I want to hit on something two things really quick.
The running back thing, I philosophically agree with every single
human being that is. Yeah, I think ninety nine point
nine percent of people are all on the same page.
Don't take a running back in the first round. That
is a core value of anyone that falls football. That
is the right move. Take an old lineman, take a
(10:29):
d lineman, Take a wide receiver, Take whatever running backs
you can find later in the draft, just like I'm
fundamentally kind of against taking guards and centers in the
first round because I feel I can find those guys
later in the draft. Right tackles, left tackles, pass rushers,
d tackles, premium positions. All four it and all four
continue to take them throughout the draft. But I do
think this draft's a little bit of an outlier because
(10:51):
I don't know if you heard, but last night, the
Cowboys who drafted the d tackle from Michigan, who just
that guy feels like a stud. He he only watched
the draft with his mom, and it's just like, that
guy's going to be a good player. Just love his story.
If you get a chance, go to the Cowboys you know, Twitter,
Instagram account. It just seems like a high level guy.
(11:12):
Obviously Naskaker playing on Michigan's d line. But this draft
was terrible, and the Cowboys said last night in their
press conference that they had eleven guys with first round grades.
And I would imagine if you polled NFL teams and
they had to tell you the truth. I think the
average on first round grades in this draft would probably
(11:33):
be like twelve point five or thirteen point five, it'd
be really, really small. So when you think about running backs,
obviously b John Robinson, you know, on many boards, might
have been the second behind Jalen Carter, second or third
best player in this draft. And I think there's a
very good chance that Gibbs, the running back the Lions took,
(11:54):
was also given a first round grade. I've heard a
lot of people compare him to Christian McCaffrey or yeah,
some Christian McCaffrey, Alvin Kamara. He's a very versatile chess piece. Now,
you don't want to take him at seven overall, though
I think it was leaked out that the Lions were
open to doing that, or maybe it was six overall
was their pick. Let's start with the Atlanta Falcons. They
(12:15):
averaged one hundred and sixty yards on the ground last year.
They drafted a fifth round running back out of BYU
who was good. They've drafted Drake London, they drafted Kyle Pitts.
Like offensive skill guys are not their issue. Their problem
is defense and it fucking stinks. So I'm in full agreement.
B John Robinson, stud player, stud guy. Want him on
(12:39):
my team. But when my defense blows and my head coach,
who's also in a play caller, is a great run schemer,
why am I taking B John Robinson? Why don't I,
I don't know, take a defensive lineman, That's what I
would have done, right. I can't fathom taking B John
Robinson in that spot. I really can't. And to win
(13:01):
in the NFC, the physical teams are the best teams, right,
The Eagles, the Niners, the Cowboys. I think the Giants
are building a physical mentality, so why they beat the
Giants in the playoffs, and that's why the beat the
Minnesota Vikings. Excuse me in the playoffs. Physical team. Seattle's
trying to build a bully. It's a physical it's a
heavyweight fighter. They want to fucking knock you out. So
(13:24):
I get the mindset, But that means you got to
be good on defense too. That means you need pieces
on defense too. So I this is not has anything
to do with b John Robinson. I just don't understand
the pick yet. With the Lions, I kind of do
because of the Stafford trade, and once they traded back
to twelve, they got whoever they wanted to take at
twelve and pick thirty four, so they got that. They
(13:48):
ended up taking the running back obviously, but they also
got another pick to go with them, which ended up,
as you if you watched the draft today, was a
tight end. So if I told you with their first
three picks in the top thirty four they got a
running back, a tight end, and a front seven player,
you'd be like, oh, good job, right. But if I
tell you the running back goes first, that's when everyone
(14:09):
freaks out and I talk to teams that you know,
I don't know, might have been in the NFC Championship
or the Super Bowl, and I think we're all in
agreement that the players going in the twenties were better
in the teams because I don't know if anyone knows
if these players are gonna be any good because there
weren't that many highly drafted, highly graded guys in this draft.
So if you're the Lions and you have thirteen first
round picks and Gibbs is one of them, and you
(14:31):
trade back to twelve, why not take them there? Especially
when you know to get there that you got basically
the first pick or second pick in the second round,
and you also got another first round pick because of
the Stafford trade, unlike the Falcons. So in the top
forty five picks the Detroit Lions, I'm defending the Lions,
and I think the Falcons are crazy because ultimately the
(14:53):
Lions had four picks in the top forty five, and
three of those guys you know, would quote unquote be
physical trenches guys separate from the running back. They took
the tight end from Iowa, who you know they needed
a tight end. They easily could have taken a tight
end at twelve, they took the corner from Alabama at
forty five, and obviously in the late teens they took
(15:15):
the linebacker who's a freak athlete from Iowa. So like
I completely understand what the Lions did, I do not
understand what the Atlanta Falcons did. Would be John Robinson.
Can't wrap my head around it. I saw Chris Ballard
say today that this was Friday, No, this would have
been Thursday night at his press conference that I was
(15:38):
kind of bullshit of all the negative stuff that was
coming out about players, and ultimately I think who we
was talking about was just the Lions just took Kendon
Hooker was CJ Stroud and some of the negative dialect
or dialogue around c J Stroud, And honestly, I thought,
(15:59):
like kind of pissed me off. I'm like, that's none
of this matters. C J. Stroud got drafted second overall,
second overall. So all the stuff going on on the
internet about Ryan Clark and Brady Quinn arguing back and
forth about his test score leaking, and here's the thing
with the test score. If you're going to leak the
(16:21):
good test scores, who scored poorly. Now ultimately, like trust me,
if test scores determine where you win life, I'd be
digging ditches. I barely got over a thousand on my SAT.
I hate STANDARDRIDS test. Now I know this is more
of a This isn't a cognitive test in the term
in the sense of you know, ABC and D. This
(16:41):
is more like tapping things to get your reaction time.
But still, like I c J. Stroud clearly was unfazed
by that. Like I said, he just he hasn't signed
it yet, but we'll get a four year, thirty to
thirty five million dollar contract and twenty five to twenty
eight million dollars signing bonus. That's a fact. So all
the fluff about him over the last month is ultimately irrelevant.
(17:04):
And one thing these gms like Ballard have learned to
do is play the media, play their Twitter accounts, and
play their TV appearances like a fucking fiddle. And Chris
Ballard had everyone going will Levis is going to the Colts.
They love will Levis why because it was good business.
Because think about this, they didn't want anyone to jump
(17:25):
them to the Cardinals who were open for business and
take Anthony Richardson, Well, it turns out like Will Levis
tumbled like a rock. He was the actual guy that fell.
And Ballard's like acting like all these people leaking this
stuff are doing it for any other reason than I
don't know, business. That's the business. You've chose, Chris to
(17:47):
put give things to the media which they all take
and run with and listen, I'm guilty. I fell for
some of the stuff they were feeding me and feeding
us and to try to get guys to fall or
have guys not steal your player. So I just think
that that notion is just no who cares what his
test scoring. He's either gonna be good at football or not,
and he's going to be rich because of it. So
(18:09):
I hated that. It actually kind of pissed me off,
and thinking of a guy I've gotten a lot of
dms from like Falcons fans and definitely from Bears fans
of like why didn't we just take Jalen Carter and
and me and Colin talked about this after the first
round one thing the Eagles had and I hammered this home,
(18:30):
not just the SEC guys, but the leadership, the veteran
guys in the room. I remember, like my first or
second year in the NFL, the Giants took JPP and
at the time, he just had some red flags, some
question marks, raw product, and it was like, well they
can handle them. Why in that room. They got tucknoc
(18:50):
whom or in Kiwanuka and they have the infrastructure there
to handle them. I think his rookie year they won
the Super Bowl. And certain organizations are just equick to
handle certain guys and other organizations are not. Jalen Carter
would immediately be the best player in the Chicago Bears.
He would immediately be discussed, if not the best player
(19:12):
in the Atlanta Falcons. That is not the case. He's
not even the best defensive lineman on the Philadelphia Eagles.
He's definitely not the best player. And he's definitely like
all these guys that were on his own team have
been playing for a team that just was in the
Super Bowl. So now they've equipped four Georgia guys the
(19:35):
last two years to be around them, and three of
the four of them no question marks. I mean, Nolan
Smith's character is elite. Dean's character, I think pretty sure
from what I've heard, is elite, and Jordan Davis. I've
never heard anything negative. So three of the four of
them high level guys. He doesn't really have a choice.
Just like at Georgia, he didn't really have a choice,
like you either got to play hard or get out.
(19:57):
So you know, the Eagles are were much more equipped
even the Lions, Like Whden Lions, they could have just
drafted them in the top ten, right and if they
didn't want to trade back, well, think about their operation.
Their best defensive player is going to be a second
year guy. If Aiden Hutchinson was a seventh year guy,
five time pro bowler, and they had some other core
(20:17):
guys they felt really good about, I'd be like, yeah,
that was a missed opportunity. You got Dan Campbell, kind
of a player's coach. That's what I would have done.
But that's not the case. So I think the Eagles
were uniquely equipped to do that. They really were. You
could argue Seattle, but I think Seattle, you know, kind
of wants to reincarnate the lob operation, which is smart
(20:39):
and just run the ball down your throat with like
seven running backs before I'm gonna hit on a couple
of first round picks that I really liked. That I
didn't get to get through with Colin is God. The
Cardinals are a poorly run organization. Like there are some
every team is talking to players about contracts, you know,
well before free agency, like that's no one tampering, it's
(21:01):
all bullshit. But like when it comes to coaches, you know,
there are pretty just set rules about interviewing coaches, And
that the Cardinals tampered with Jonathan Gannon is one of
the most insane things I've ever seen. And because of that,
the Eagles got their third round pick. Like that's just
that's pretty bad man. That It really is pretty embarrassing
(21:24):
for the Arizona Cardinals, who are a team that I'm
telling you, with Washington now in different ownership's hands, the
league is going to set their sights on the Cards
and the Las Vegas Raiders. Let's get on a couple
of picks that I really liked, first and foremost, the
Bills to get the Utah tight end Dalton Kincaid at
(21:45):
pick twenty five. Like one thing you know they've I
think they've lacked a physical run element to their team,
but I also think that everything When you play in
this freezing cold environment, it's hard for your quarterback to
just throw bombs all the time. It's like Aaron Rodgers
over the years. Once they get to Lambeau in January,
(22:07):
it neutralizes some of their strengths. Just slinging the pill around.
You're not able to do that in zero degrees. Well, Buffalo,
same thing, like, we need to have a physical element
and to me, adding a tight end who comes from
a cold weather place, you know, is the next best
thing behind a running back. I think they drafted a
guard in the second round as well. You just need
(22:29):
guys that are gonna make it easy on your quarterback.
Whether that's a physical runner between the tackles, whether that's
a tight end, whether that's offensive lineman. Not everything can
be you know, Davis and Diggs and just throwing bombs.
It's not the NFL in January. That's not how Tom
Brady won six Super Bowls. Peyton Manning dominated, right, that's
(22:52):
not the way. And I love that pick, I really
just like I love the Cowboys. One thing the Cowboys
are gonna have to do. They're going to catch the Niners.
They've lost the Niners two straight years in the playoffs,
and obviously the Eagles are better than them. Is they
have to continue to match their physicality, and they were
damn close to matching it last year with against the Niners.
(23:13):
I mean they were damn close. Dak screwed them through
those picks, but their defense was right there. So you
had another piece. Well, what does Kyle Shanahan want to do?
Wants to run the ball. What does Brian da Ball
want to do? It's going to want to run the ball.
The Eagles obviously they throw bombs, but the run game,
especially with their quarterback, is a big part of their offense.
(23:34):
So getting Mazie Smith from Michigan, when you think of Michigan,
like they kind of overpowered and shoved around Ohio State
the last couple years, get a tough guy. Love those
back to back picks, really Kincaid Smith, some other picks,
like the Packers have always been a highweight, speed team.
They love swinging for that, and I tend to lean
that way too, Like I get it, I understand it.
(23:56):
They did it last year with Watson out of North
Dakota State and by the end of the season you're like, damn,
this kid can kind of ball. And Lucas van Ess,
I know he didn't start on his team, but One
thing you see every year is Iowa gets like three
or four guys drafted in the first two rounds. They
produce NFL guys did play in the league for a
long time. They might suck on offense, but it is
(24:18):
an NFL operation, the way you train, the way you
prepare the physicality of the team, and definitely defensively. So
kind of like that pick, I really do. I mean,
there are a lot of picks that Gonzales the quarter
from Oregon. I think he's a Colorado transfer breed. Dion Sanders.
(24:38):
One thing I heard, like I had some good teams
were like, yeah, we would not have drafted him and
had to do with confidence. They didn't see like part
of being a really good corner. Like say what you
want about Jalen Ramsey, he might have too much swag,
but his self belief is incredibly high. You know, Dion
is the most notorious ever. This guy just thought he
(25:01):
was the best ever. Richard Sherman Darrell reeves like, you
kind of got to be wired a little different to
play on the outside. One thing I've heard about him
lacks a little self confidence and that turns a lot
of teams off at that position, Like you kind of
have you you have to almost have an inflated belief
in yourself because it's so fucking hard to play out
there on an island. And I know physically he's very,
(25:22):
very talented, but I've heard a lot of teams that
just you know, didn't quite see the guy. Not in
a bad way, but like to play that corner almost
kind of need a guy that, like you, really think
you're that good. Well that they have to or else
they don't have a shot, not in the NFL, not
in the AFC, not against all those wide receivers, not
against all those cornerbacks. It's too difficult. The run of
(25:46):
wide receivers I think was pretty interesting. Jackson Smith, the
TCU guys A Flowers basically went twenty twenty one, twenty two,
Addison went twenty three. You know, I don't know if
you saw, but the forty nine picked up I can't
even remember his name, Brandon Ayuk his fifth year option today.
(26:09):
And I do wonder that if some of these wide
receivers have gone early earlier than they did, and those
teams that really wanted a wide receiver in the early twenties,
if they were going to trade Brandon Ayuk if the
player they wanted was there, because there have been a
lot of talk about could Brandon but Ayuk be moved
And I don't think they were just going to trade
him to trade him for a wide receiver, like they
(26:29):
wouldn't trade Brandon Ayuk to draft Jordan Adison. But if
the right tackle had fallen, you know, with McGlinchey leaving,
I could have seen that, and I do wonder if
that was at play, and listen, I'd keep Brandon Nyuk
and obviously they did. But you got to keep your
options open this league, especially when you got a lot
of highly paid guys. You know, Addison's really good, say
(26:49):
Flowers really good. I didn't love the TCU wide receiver
as much, but my buddies in the league did, So
what do I know. They're on teams that went a
lot of aames and obviously Jackson Smith is a baller.
So love Seattle's draft, as Colin and I talked about,
and yeah, I mean, what a time to be alive.
(27:10):
I mean it really is. So I'll I have a
much longer podcast on Sunday from Monday morning, kind of
recapping everything that happened and some more big stories. But
just wanted to come back because no middle cooff mail
bag and hammer this out. Okay, Audios. The volume
Host
John Middlekauff
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