March 27, 2020 • 52 mins
In this episode, Middlekauff explains why Peyton Manning would have been a guaranteed superstar MNF analyst, why his passing on the gig looks like he wants to run a team, why he has questions Matt Rhule's readiness in Carolina based on how they handled the release of Cam Newton and some other early decisions. He also answers listener questions in Middlekauff's Mailbag. Follow John on twitter @JohnMiddlekauff and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content. Subscribe now!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
What is going on everybody? John Middlecoff Threeing Out podcast.
That's me. That's the show, Live from Quarantine, A lot
of quarantine in and a lot of chilling, and uh,
I kind of cracked earlier this week. I can't watch
another movie. I can't watch another television show. I started
(00:30):
watching super Bowls and I watched the O two Super
Bowl and it got me thinking about John Madden was
calling the game. Peyton Manning turned down Monday Night Football,
and I have some thoughts there the Panthers and this
whole Cam Newton saga, them signing Teddy Bridgewater. I want
to like Matt Rule. I mean I do, based on
(00:53):
his opening press conference and just how good he was
in college. I got some questions, you know, I'm not
sure I see what he's cooking up. And then we're
gonna have a long middlecough mail bag at John Middlecoff
is my Instagram handle d MS wide open slide on in.
You're welcome to ask any questions how we interact here
(01:14):
on the show and just fire away I got. I
got so many questions, be a large segment today and uh,
and if you can, you know, I don't know where
you are all over the country or hell of the world.
You're quarantine and leave a little a little review on
Apple or iTunes if you like the show on the
Under the three and Out Under the Three and Out podcast,
(01:35):
I would, uh, I would greatly appreciate that. It's been
uh been a lot of hanging out, a lot of eating.
I've been eating. You know, I naturally kind of work
from home anyway, but I've lost a little bit of
my discipline in this in these quarantine times. But I'm
staying positive. Keep your head up, and we'll just keep
on swinging, baby, Stay quarantined. Stay. Uh. Let's let's stop
(01:59):
this so we can get out of the coronavirus for
the love of God and uh back to some semblance
you know, of reality. But until then, we'll just have
to talk about football here on the podcast. Well we
do that anyway. And I was watching the O two
Super Bowl with John Madden against his former team that
had actually just traded him. I tweeted it out. I
(02:22):
actually think the trade is one of the more underrated
moves in sports history. It was only less than twenty
years ago a coach got traded for two first rounders
to second rounders and eight million. It's insane, and uh,
I understand why John has a big ego. I mean,
if I got traded for two first rounders, two second rounders,
and eight million dollars, if you had inflation, it's probably
(02:43):
like fifteen million dollars. Digs and Hopkins combined went for
less than that. Think about that. So I get it.
But John Madden was on the call, and I'm watching
this game, and I was just kind of drawn in
Skinny tan Al Michaels. The game was at Coal Calm
in San Diego. It was sweet, and Madden was incredible.
(03:04):
I mean, he's He's one of the great true if
you think about it, TV stars in American history. I'm
talking Seinfeld, Ted Dancing with Cheers, uh, Gandel Feenie with
sopranos Like John Madden is easily the most famous famous
UH analyst in the history of sports. Definitely the highest
(03:25):
paid up until Tony Romo. I mean, he was making
eight million back in ninety two the video game. He
was a rock star. But when you watch it, you
go some sometimes football fans on like Twitter, that there's
a reason, like none of the analytical guys have massive
media followings. It's like to be a big television star
talking about football, you gotta kind of play to the
(03:47):
person that doesn't know that much about football. When you
get too niche and you start talking about schemes and play,
it goes over people's head. Now you gotta dive into
what you see. And Tony ro almost probably on the
extreme end of that. But when you watched John Madden,
you just went this guy is awesome. He gave so
much energy. He talked about whams and bams and hitting
(04:09):
people in the mouth and shoving it down people's throats.
It's like, yeah, this is football. And then it would
go to clips of John Madden and he was so excited.
He was actually a little older at this time. I
mean he's still he's still going strong. I don't know strong,
but he's still around now in two thousand twenty. But
on his television career, I think it was down the
home stretch out look fantastic. But he was just a
(04:29):
rock star. And really there's only been two guys since
that have even come close. Obviously John Gruden. I wouldn't
say it was John Madden, but he was damn close.
He was a made four TV just star. He was incredible,
mainly like John Madden played to the casual NFL fan,
the extreme NFL fan like me or if you're listening,
(04:50):
we're gonna watch no matter what. Now we're gonna get
angry at guys like Booger, but we're still watching Monday
Night football. The casual guy, and definitely in Madden's time
was drawn in because of John Madden. John Gruden had
a little bit of that to him. Tony Romo doesn't
necessarily have that. I don't think like people aren't coming
to the game for Tony Romo. He's calling the top
(05:12):
game on Sunday besides Sunday Night Football. It's Jim Nance
is the afternoon national game. Typically over the last decade
it's been the Patriots, the Steelers, Mahomes. I mean, it's
it's the best game of the day. But Romo is
really good. And Romo, like Gruden and like Madden, have
this quality of you know what, I want to hang
with that guy, or damn, I think that guy is
(05:34):
pretty damn cool, or he's just really likable. And that's
one of the things you have to be when you're
on television to be a star is to be likable.
Madden had that to the nth degree. Gruden wasn't far behind,
and clearly Tony Romo has it now. Cann he maintain it?
He's only been doing it for a couple of years.
I think he can because he's naturally just a pretty
likable human being. And I I stumbled upon again, I
(05:57):
can't watch any more television shows. I can't watch to
any more movies. I just want to watch some freaking sports.
So I'm flipping around the channels and I end up
on Peyton's places and it's I had never seen a
lot of Peyton stuff that he's done with ESPN, but
he he did all these historical moments, I guess four ESPN,
these little like fifteen minutes segments, and they put it
(06:18):
together in like an hour long special. One of them
was he got with like Terry Bradshaw and some dudes
for the Raiders and Frank o'harris and they re enacted
the uh, the Immaculate Reception. And then he got with
Joe Montana and Bill Walsh's old office in the museum
at Levi's and they talked about Walsh, and you just
realize Pitton Manning is just a star. And when the
(06:40):
cameras on. He's just great and we all think back
to when he hosted Saturday Night Live, how awesome it
was when he did the scenes of throwing the footballs
at the little kids. I mean, he's just great. He
really is just fantastic. And he turned down Monday Night Football.
I think it was like on Monday of this week,
so this I probably could have done this story on Tuesday,
but we've had so much else going on, and it's
(07:02):
a pretty big blow, you know. I I think you
never truly know till you get a guy on TV,
but I think you know, right sometimes you think, like
Rex Ryan's gonna be really good on TV. I watched
Rex Ryan on TV is terrible and Tony Romo, I
I didn't know he'd be this good. I mean, I
thought it was a pretty big stretch. Jason witten Hell
got the Monday Night game and was it was like
watching paint dry by the second game. Jon Gruden had
(07:24):
it from day one. I don't know if John Madden
quote unquote had it from day one. I was really young,
but clearly he was made for the job. Watching Peyton
Manning just on TV doing non football stuff. Uh, even
though it's related to football, just host a show, host
different segments. He just has that special you know what.
(07:45):
Like he he would have been absolutely incredible and like
Romo and like Madden and like Gruden when he's in
that star mode. Even though he's worth hundreds of millions
of dollars, he's one of the greatest quarterbacks ever. People
like me and you have little to nothing in common
with the guy. He was born into a family whose
(08:07):
dad played in the NFL and was really famous. He
was like the top recruit went to Tennessee, was the
number one. He's a blue chipper of blue Chipper. But
there's this He's able to do this despite being really
famous and over his life. Right when he branded Forever,
h Collin always made fun of him because he picked
these brands a little like shacks like Peyton. There's no
(08:27):
way you're driving a Honda Accord or Peyton. Come on, man,
You're you're not eating Hoggin Dodge cookie and cream ice cream. Uh.
Tom's much more picky right with the brands that he
aligns with ugs uh, like a Rolex or net Jets
or it's just all super high end UH brands. I
was listening to this podcast about Greg Norman, the golfer
(08:50):
No laying up if you're into golf. They have a
great podcast and they just did this oral history of
Greg Norman and the one thing they were talking about
Greg Norman is he was a lot like Tom Brady,
where you see a lot of golf first, it's like Nascar,
and I don't know where I'd fall. If I had
the opportunity people started writing big checks, I probably would
take it. But Greg Norman was very, very picky. It
was all like Brady elite stuff, Range, Rover Land, Rover, Rolex,
(09:15):
his own brand that he vertically integrated into his Reebok
contract and he kind of owns it like Jordan does
the Jordan brand through Nike. Greg Norman did that. For
Peyton Manning was just more like yeah, I'll do whatever,
and it always worked. You would see him pitching these
ads Chicken Palm with Brad Paisley. It's like, God, I
could hang out with Peyton. I really could. I used
(09:38):
to hear stories when I was scouting h from some
buddies that worked for the Broncos. I remember being like,
what's it like Peyton Manning in your building. They're like,
oh my god, he is wearing everyone out. He had
to need special video coordinators, and I mean wearing people
out in a good way. Obviously you're gonna win. But
he was intense, like he had things. He was like
a coach. I mean he had certain it ups that
(10:00):
he needed on certain days. He was your typical player, like,
oh yeah, give me, you tell me what I need.
Peyton knew what he needed was like Belichick of players,
and it was really intense. So I started thinking, why
would he turn this job down? Because he's clearly it
would be an enormous deal. It would be probably the
biggest name. He would be right there in line with Madden, Gruden, Manning.
(10:23):
Because whoever hired and made this think about this, whoever
put Joe testa tour, uh Witten and and then Booker
the boogermore bi mobile and then this year when Witton
bounced because he realized he can say whatever he wants
and listen. I like Jason Witten. I've heard him several
interviews over the years. He is a super high level guy. Honestly,
he his personality. He could be a senator, he could
(10:45):
be a general manager of a team. He is. He's
fifty times more high level than myself. I mean, when
I listen to him jealous, I'm like, I wish I
was more like that guy. Not everyone's made for media.
You gotta just have I don't even know. I don't
even know how to quantify either got it or you don't,
and Peyton has it. I think Peyton would be a
star because of how much he likes football. I wonder,
(11:07):
and a couple of theories I have why he turns
it down. One is I don't think Peyton man like
I can do media guy. I can just watch a game,
jot down some notes, and just let it flow. I
don't know if Peyton Manning is wired like that. I
think going into every game he would spend so much time.
I bet he's loving life right now. He's worth all
this money. He's able to focus his ideas on business.
(11:29):
He's always at like the Denver Nuggets games with his kids.
I think he has a pretty balanced life, and for
probably twenty years he had no balance in his life.
It was football, football, football, football, and then the off
season was family. But it was football football for those
six months during the season. There wasn't like fifty fifty
football and then hanging out with the kids. It was
like nine nine football and then that one kind of
(11:51):
his kids. Just because that's the way he operated. He
had to. And I'm thinking watching him when he's recreating
this video trying to do the immatulate reception with co Harris,
you realize, well, he wasn't a great athlete. He never
had a great arm, you know. Really one of the
points of difference of Peyton Manning was his mind and
his work ethic. He outworked you and he thought you
(12:12):
because by no means was he the most physically gifted.
Rarely even relative to the other quarterback like Tom Brady
has a much better arm than Peyton Manning. I mean,
neither could move that well. But it was all upstairs,
so I wouldn't if he's thinking, listen, if I do
this and they're gonna pay him fifteen sixteen million dollars,
I can't imagine the feeling of someone being like, hey man,
(12:33):
you want to do like a fifteen Monday night football games.
You can pick whoever you want to do the play
by play with. We we'll pay a fifteen million. So
you do the math. You know, fifteen million will sign
you to a five year contract. You know, what's that
seventy million dollars pays like nah, no, you know, I'm
I'm good. I like, like imagine turned down like seventy five. Hell,
maybe they offered him ten year contract. Tony Romo got
(12:54):
a ten year contract. Who knows, and just saying no,
I'm good and I just wonder if he can't half
asked is the wrong word, But he's worried that he
wouldn't be able to do it without kind of dedicating
his life to diving into both teams, diving into the schemes,
approaching it like a player, and he knows he can't
really turn it off. And that's really grew never turned
(13:16):
it off right. He was notorious for, even when he
did Monday Night football, for still going into that office
at four in the morning watching the tape. And he
was able to kind of keep that lifestyle going in
a media way but still in a coaching way. When
he's made this transition back, I mean, I know people
on the Raider staff that say, you better believe he's
(13:37):
still coming in at four in the morning. They will
tell you I've never been around someone that I think
likes football that much. It makes you question, as a
football coach, do I like football enough, and I think
Peyton Manning has some of that in him where I
I just I think that holds him back. And I
also my other theory would just be he really really
(13:57):
wants to be a GM an L way you know, president,
maybe even a partial owner like a Michael Jordan, but
also picked the players, and he's just keeping his eye
on the prize. He's able to do his own research,
he's able to keep making money with his business ventures,
and he's able to be very flexible. And the one
thing Monday Night football would not allow him to be
(14:18):
able to do is be really flexible, like there is
a set schedule. You're flying in, you know every Saturday
or Friday, start meeting with the coaches. Clearly his film
prep would start, and he wouldn't have the ability maybe
to make his investments to try to grow his portfolio,
so he can come in as you know, one of
those kind of quote unquote part time or minority owners.
(14:40):
I guess it wouldn't be part time. It would be
a you know, less than obviously, no one's gonna give
him a majority stake in a team, and he probably
doesn't have the money, but just give him five and
make him the president of the team, and that that
would be my guest, because he's now turned down Monday
Night Football basically a couple of times. And if he's
not gonna do it now, is he gonna do it
when he's in five six years? And this again, I
(15:04):
would love for him to do it. I think he
would be I think he was made for it. He
would be a superstar. It really speaks to his talents. Right,
He's a great quarterback. I think he could easily run
a team, own a team. I think he'd immediately be
one of the great broadcasters of all time. And it
leaves us with ESPN with where do they go? You
know they want Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, those guys are
(15:26):
playing I think I think money and that football is
kind of screwed. This was This wasn't just their hail Mary.
This was their only shot of being kind of felt
like they were legitimate. Right now, they're just gonna band
aid it year to year until they hopefully they can
get one of these guys. And the hard thing is,
even with Rivers and Breeze, you know they're not gonna
need the money these guys have accumulated hundreds of millions
(15:49):
of dollars. When you factor in endorsements too, especially with
Drew Brees, you know it's gonna be it's gonna be
really difficult. And even Drew Brees, I don't know how
good Drew Brees would be. I mean, he's a great guy.
He just gave him and his wife gave five million
dollars in the Saints. Just a fantastic human being. I
mean a ten out of ten as a human That
doesn't necessarily make you a great media guy. Rivers I
(16:10):
think would be pretty damn good. But I just wonder
if he would just jump right in to do TV,
you know, especially if he plays a couple more years
for the Colts. So it's just one of those what
could have been, because I think Peyton Manning would have
would have immediately been an al Teimer. Let's dive into
the Panthers and they've had a week in my opinion
(16:31):
that has made me go, what the hell are they doing.
I've never been the biggest Cam Newton guy, though I've
always respected his elite talent. He's he's a physical freak.
He's had some moments in the league. His MVP year
he was fantastic, and when he's on, he can go
to battle with any top quarterback in any team. He's
(16:51):
he's elite when he's on. Now he's also off. You know,
ball sale on him. Uh these last couple of years
shoulder foot, major injury questions. But I will say this,
he's accomplished a lot in the NFL, from being the
number one pick to the m v P to be
in the starting quarterback for a team that made the
playoffs countless times. He's on a he was on a
(17:14):
really cheap contract if you're Matt Rule, and listen. When
Matt Rule was hired, I watched his press conference and
it was like Nick Saban meets a church sermon. It
was really impressive. It made you go, damn, I want
to play for that guy. But then you take a
step back and you go, you know, this guy doesn't
have any NFL experience beside one year. Are we sure
(17:34):
he knows what he's doing because he gets rid of
all these older players which are still functional players. If
I was him, I just want to kept Cam Newton
this year. If he's terrible and gets injured again, then
I'll cut him after this year and we're bad and
we go get Trevor Lawrence. What I would not do
is signed Teddy Bridgewater because Teddy Bridgewater is good enough
where you're gonna win five to seven games. You're not
(17:57):
gonna be drafted in the top five, but he's not
good enough in your team to take you to the playoffs. Now,
I get it from a culture standpoint, Teddy's a super
high level guy. He's really impressive individual. People love Teddy Bridgewater.
He also has experience in the division as a backup,
and when you're the backup, you're used to doing a
lot of different things. Well, scout team, with the coaching staff,
(18:18):
you're a big part of the game plan. Right you're
working hand in hand with Drew and Sean Payton. But
you already have that in Cam Newton. He's been this
division for a decade, and I get Cam can wearry out.
He can be a diva sometimes. But I actually think
this was an easy one. When Chip Kelly got the
job in Philadelphia, he kept Mike Vic for a season.
You know why, because you're like, why not? Because you
(18:40):
might actually have something if he has gotten himself healthy.
Now you can tell me, well, the Panthers are gonna
know more about Cam's health than anyone, and I'd say
that's true. But we've seen some videos he was working
out on Instagram with the shirt off. He looks fantastic.
I mean, hell, Cam Newton. I saw Cam Newton working
harder in one video on Instagram that I've seen Baker
Mayfiel two years on social media. So he's got him beat.
(19:04):
But that rule is trying. One thing I thought they
were gonna do is kind of blow it up and
then start over kind of next year, and that's not
exactly what they're doing, especially with Teddy Bridgewater. I also
thought the way they handled this Cam Newton situation, if
you are going to kick him to the curb, which
is essentially what they did, just cut the guy. He
had no trade market. They should have known that. They've
(19:27):
been trying to trade him all off season. No one's
gonna trade for him because the unknown of the injuries
with the Corona it makes it impossible. Because if Cam
had a full bill of health, I do think someone
would have traded a six round pick for him. He
doesn't make very much money at relative to a starting quarterback.
Plus he's basically on a year to your contract and
kind of whatever you want for nothing. It would have
(19:47):
been an easy one, but at this point in time,
no one's gonna trade for him. Yet they dragged it
out all week. Cam Newton, the Carolina Panthers, the majority
of my life have been irrelevant. They had the O
two or oh three season when they made the Super Bowl.
For the gjority of it. They just haven't really mattered.
And Cam Newton is by far. Maybe he's not the
best player. That might be Luke Kickley, might be Julius Peppers,
might be Cam. Whatever, he's easily their most famous player,
(20:11):
and he's easily the most important player in franchise history.
He put that franchise on the map in a big,
big way, made him nationally relevant because because what he is.
At the end of the day, I don't know if
he still is this guy, but he's a superstar to me.
The way you treat that guy on the way out
is not start tweeting last week that you're thinking about
(20:32):
trading him, and you've given him the opportunity to reach
out to other teams either trade him or not and
cut him. But don't do the dog and Pony show
where you end up cutting him a week later. It's
just kind of low level. And this is what happens
when you got Matt Rules from college. Who guess what
happens in college. You can't cut anybody. Your team's your team.
You got Dave Temper, which is probably worried about the
(20:53):
market tanking and his new coach. It doesn't quite understand this.
And I think David Temper and Matt Rule in a
vacuum a really high level guy. But this is situation
dealing with a you know, it's kind of a sensitive
subject when you're cutting a franchise quarterback, someone who's taken
you to places that and made you relevant to a
level that you have and typically been like he does.
(21:15):
He was owed to me, and again you're you're listening
to someone that is not a huge Cam Newton individual
like Cam Newton, Ate John Middle costs favorite player. He
deserved way better than the way they treated him on
the way out. It wasn't that difficult. Just keep it
under wraps. If you can't trade him, cut him like
you did Greg Olsen. He probably should have been cutting
before the free agency open. Now. I get it, it
(21:37):
is a business and they were hoping to trade him,
but you should have had a feel he was gonna
be untradeable with his injuries, and if you're trying to
trade him, you're basically acknowledging you're healthy. And this is
back to why didn't you just roll with him? This year?
You're going with Teddy Bridgewater, You're signing Robby Anderson. It's
like they're getting the whole Temple University alum. It's a
little bit higher level with a signed p J. Walker,
(22:00):
the other guy from Temple that was in the XFL.
It has a little bit of a Chip Kelly feel
to it. It's like, are you just signing these guys
because you know him? Aren't you the culture guy? Aren't
use bolts to send the tempo? Cam's been around Ron
Rivera for nine years, who's an old school hard ass.
They got along fine, They figured it out. They had
no issues. Like, again, if you think Cam is gonna
(22:22):
disrupt your locker room, I don't think that's really been
his issue. Now. Can you act like a diva sometimes
on game day? Sure? But the one thing that never
came out with Ron Rivera's you know, this guy is
a pain in my ass. That's not really how he felt.
Right now, they tried to be smarter about the way
they ran him to tried to change their offense to
protect them a little more football things. But when you
(22:45):
think culture, like did they overvalue culture? Teddy Bridgewater sixty
million dollars? Teddy Bridge was a good backup, great kid.
If you're starting quarterback for sixteen games or three straight years,
you're in no man's land. And I'm no man's land.
So is right off the bat is Matt Rule valuing
(23:05):
character and people that he knows more than just talent
and talent. When I say, like, you can sign talented
players that you don't know, coaches do it all over
the league all the time. Like Kyle Shanahan didn't know DeFord,
they traded for him. Okay, they're starting defensive end. Like,
to be a good coach in this league, you have
(23:25):
to be somewhat uncomfortable being around guys that you don't
know that much about. Obviously, you have done research, you
have reports on them coming out of college. But in
free agency, like, I don't really get it, and I
don't think there really is a plan because now I
think that they're probably thinking, maybe we can be kind
of good. Well, you're not gonna be kind of good
because the Saints are really good. Tampa is gonna be
(23:46):
better than you, and even the Falcons, now they pulled
the coaches names out of a hat and started playing
well at the end of the season, are just better
than you. Two. You're gonna be the worst team in
that division. So if you're gonna be the worst team
in that division, you might as well just be really
shitty and be in position to draft one of these
top two quarterbacks and not in a way where you're
actively trying to tank right now. But it makes no sense.
(24:07):
I can't wrap my head around giving sixty million. I
google that. I never saw the official guaranteed number. But
it doesn't matter. I mean, they're paying Teddy Bridgewater twenty
million dollars a year and they're at least tied to
him this season, and you might as well if you
were gonna get rid of Camp, I would have just
rolled like Kyle Allen and signed case keenum Teddy Bridge.
I just I don't get it. And I think sometimes
(24:30):
with Chip Kelly, these high level guys, they get into
this level that they're not used to, they're not comfortable with,
and they can be overwhelmed and they can do stupid
things and they can put themselves. They can actually take
a step back before they ever take a step forward.
And sometimes if you take several steps back, you're never
able to make up for it. And Matt Rule, I
(24:51):
get he got up six seven year contract, but I
don't know, man, I already I don't have a full
on red flag. But I'm just I'm watching that a
little differently than I would have when he was originally hired. Okay,
let's dive into the middlecoff mail bag first, I just
want to read, uh this tweet by Adam Schefter. It's
(25:13):
just fantastic. Roger goodellson out a memo tonight. I'm recording this.
It's like six o'clock Thursday night. The memo basically said,
the draft is happening, the date is not being changed,
so just proceed as normal given the circumstances. In Roger
Goodell's memo, this is what you haveter wrote that the
draft he served a warning to those around the league
(25:34):
that criticizes the league stands. Goodell wrote, public discussion of
issues relating to the draft serves no useful purpose, and
his grounds for disciplinary action. I love that that That
that to me reminds me a lot of David Stern.
Uh listen, we can all be critical of Roger Goodell
(25:56):
over the years. He's done some stupid things. But that's
that's what the commit term needs to say. Like the
Corona sucks for everybody, We're not changing the draft. Shut
up about it and figure it out. Meanwhile, every five
minutes Adam Silver's leaking something to woad Manfred always screws up.
Say what you want about Roger Goodell the NFL, I
mean it's not all. I mean, he doesn't deserve, you know,
(26:17):
full credit, but he's drawn a line, hard line in
the sand. He's been a part of the greatest economic
growth in league history. Football is now America's pastime and
he's led the pro league. So like the other two
commissioners would die to be at Roger Goodell right now,
his league is the one that Prince cash the other ones.
The NFL is taken on water by the day. I
(26:40):
call it one of our great economic bubbles right now
in any industry. The NBA, if they don't play the
rest of the season, I mean you you're you're gonna
see the league having to give out loans and some
of their franchises, even some of their bigger franchises, like
the Houston Rockets, they're in shambles because their owner is
deep in one he borrowed money against the team. He
(27:01):
doesn't have any outside help because he privately owns everything.
He's also in the casino business. They're all shut down.
He's screwed. And then you have all the small markets
are in major trouble. So listen, We've all talked a
lot of shit about Roger Goodell over the years. Some
of it was justified, but I gotta give him credits
these last several years, and that's saying, just shut your mouth.
The Draft is happening. We're doing it. And you know
(27:22):
what the draft is gonna do when when they hosted
on the it'll be the highest rated draft in NFL history.
It'll be it might be one of the highest rated
sports events in a long long time, just given how
think about this. It's mark We're about a month away
from the draft. No sports still then none, we don't
have anything. We're just they're all canceled for the foreseeable future. Nothing.
(27:44):
We're just watching Netflix and and HBO and I'm losing
my I got Food Network on in the background. I
can only watch so much news here about the coronas
so many times, I just I just want a game.
I can't wait for the draft. We're obviously gonna talk
a lot about the draft over the UH over the
next month. Thank god for the draft. Okay, was wondering
(28:04):
your thoughts on the Colts offseason moves thus far. Obviously,
on paper, they are better than last season, but it's
what they have done really the best plan for winning
a Super Bowl as soon as possible. I just don't
feel adding a geriatric Philip Rivers Buckner and whatever other
free agent or rookie they acquire this offseason is gonna
be near enough to make the Super Bowl. Are they
delusional with this wind now strategy or do you honestly
(28:25):
think they have a shot at making the ship. To me,
it seems like they will be the same mediocre fringe
playoff position they are always in. Well, I think if
Jacobe Risette stays healthy last year, they are competitive to
get the last wild card spot. When you look at
their division, you go the Houston Texans, which feel like
they win it all the time. If the Colts don't
(28:48):
win it, they got worse. They got rid of their
best player, traded the Clowney's long gone, Wat's a year older,
Watson seems unhappy, and they have no draft picks. So
if it wasn't for the sec around or that came
with David Johnson, they would really have nothing. Now, if
David Johnson is good, it would help them out, but
still they're they're receiving threat Hopkins has averaged. I think
(29:10):
like he had a hundred fourteen catches two years ago
and I think a hundred four last year. And he's
just a dominant blue chip player. So they're worse. The
Jaguars stink. I mean, they are awful. So if I'm
the Colts, I go the Texans. They still got Bill
O'Brien Deshaun Watson. They'll be feisty, but I don't view
them as a playoff team. And then I got the
Titans too, are really good. So can we beat the Titans?
(29:33):
And Steve mcdair and Eddie George ain't walking through the door.
Well maybe Eddie George is and Derrick Henry but we'll
see on Ryan Tannehill solid player, good player. I like Grabel,
I love John Robinson, like that team solid, but I
think they're them in the culture like the same thing.
If Rivers is good and he should be inside the dome,
then you guys got a chance to be pretty good. Really,
that's simple. It's if if the quarterback plays high level
(29:56):
and he can elevate people. Now the weapons, I'd have
to pull up the roster, but t Y has gotta
stay healthy. Um, you know that they're gonna have to
draft a wide receiver. Clearly pick the forty Niners are
gonna use that on a receiver. The culture gonna have
to hit on a second or third round wide receiver.
And even sometimes when we draft a guy that you
(30:16):
know in the second round, think about like Davante Adams,
who's you know, a top seven eight wide receiver in
the league, top six seven whatever. It took him a
couple of years and he was a second round pick. Now.
Juju is another example of the second round pick that
was good right away, but it was a little easier
at Antonio Brown, so we got to kind of ease
into it even though he was productive from the jump.
Michael Thomas like, for every second round pick, that's sweet.
(30:38):
Some guys aren't a sweet, but they're gonna need immediate
like Debo, dk Metcalf with whoever they take in the
second round, they're they're gonna be They're gonna be on
that guy. To god, some of these questions are so long.
They're gonna need that guy to produce. Why doesn't since
he signed Cam and trade back for extra picks and
take to a to a Cam and a few extra
high round lineman sounds like a better yield to me
(31:00):
than just getting burrowed next year, they can move off
Cam handed to us, sort of like Casey moved off
Alex Smith. Think if you were Cincinnati and you picked
up the phone, you called Miami and you said, we
will take We'll give you one, we want five, we
want eighteen, and we want a second round pick this
year in a second round pick next year. And like
(31:21):
you said, Cam and to a not a crazy idea
at all. They're not going to do that. Mike Brown
doesn't think like that, but I can get behind that.
I actually think a flyer on Cam just given you
know what if he is healthy. It's a big if,
but what if he is healthy, Like I would not
just write him off for his career being over. He's
(31:42):
a physical freak. He's had a lot of time off.
He only played in two games. Again. The Instagram video
of him working out, he looks shredded. I'm thinking about
when I finished recording, going to get some ice cream
or something again social distancing. I will go into seven eleven.
Make sure not touch anybody, but kind of feeding something.
Quarantine has got me eating kind of bad. But claint
cam Newton looks good. I don't hate that idea at all,
(32:04):
But the problem is the Cincinnati Bengals are just never
doing that. I listen to your three Now podcasts all
all the time. It's my first favorite podcast. I'm an
Eagles fan. Eagles have interest in Yannick in doc Way,
and he seems to be interested in them. He definitely
wants out of Jacksonville. Eagles still need help with receiver.
What do you think is the monster trade? Eagles trade
(32:25):
Derek Barnett and their first round pick this year and
next year in exchange for Yannick and Jacksonville's number nine
overall pick this year. Yeah, that's not happening. This allows
the Eagles to get Yannick plus Ceede Lamba or Jerry Judy. Yeah.
I mean that's just that's not that's Derek Barnett. This
is not this deal is already kind of off whack.
I don't think the Eagles and how we are in
a position to mortgage like multiple first round picks for Yannick,
(32:47):
even though he's a really good player. I think he
clearly wants enormous money. If you're the Eagles, I think
you just use your pick and you draft a wide receiver.
You know how he's been in on these guys, but
the one thing he consistently does is he doesn't overpay.
And when he got instead of getting Byron Jones and
(33:08):
given him forty million through two years, he got Darius
Slay for basically thirty million dollars or ten million dollars
cheaper a guy that's had more success, and he didn't
have to trade that much. He traded a third and
a fifth round pick. They need their first round pick,
they need their second round pick. That they need the
assets because they need to get younger. So I don't
think how he and the Eagles are in a position
to do a deal like that now. Next year, if
(33:29):
Yannick becomes a free agent, I think they'd be all
over signing him, and he'd be a perfect scheme fit.
But I think you've seen like how he's good at
putting a price tag like we will do this, but
we won't go once I this is the most I'm
gonna pay. And in fairness, like I don't know if
I ever became a GM, if I would have stayed
on that path, which who knows how long that would
(33:50):
have taken me. If ever, I'm not that good at that,
because when I want something, I want something, and I
think the best business deals comes a lot of times
come with patients and no owing when to walk away.
And it's one thing in business. Sometimes in football, you know,
it's not like you're looking at it like a balance sheet.
(34:10):
You're looking at it like I really just want that player.
So while I didn't love the Rams, I thought they
gave too much for Jalen Ramsey, I do get it.
They just this is the best corner in the league.
We get him in our scheme and we'll just him
and Aaron Donald will dominate. Who knows, I'm helped me
and you might have done that deal, But how you
want If all the O T A s are canceled,
(34:30):
do you think this might be the best preseason? Would
would you think coaches would play starters and get more
reps on offensive defense and work things out that they've
done in O T A S. That's a hell of
a question. I haven't thought that. For the problem will
be if there's no O T A S. There is
(34:50):
going to be a huge premium on guy's discipline. You're
gonna have to work out on your own. And one
problem is a lot of jim ms these guys go
to even in the off season are closed right now. Now,
let's face it, when you're rich and famous, you can
get access to stuff. But I still think it's gonna
be difficult. So the typical regiment and these guys are
(35:12):
used to working out with other players, Like if you're
an NFL player, you're gonna work out with the other
other NFL players. I'm not even talking about the workouts
that you do once the offseason activities happen. I'm talking
about right now, the month leading up to Phase one
and then in the summer. These guys don't just go Baker, right,
but most of the league doesn't just go sit on
a beach and drink margarita. Is They maintain that fitness
(35:34):
so when they get back to training camp, they're ready
to hit the ground running. I think it's gonna be
a challenge. You're gonna you might need to spend the
first couple of weeks just working on personal fitness. You
can't put guys in position if they haven't been able
to work out. Now, we're a long ways away from
knowing what's gonna happen in the summer. But that's a
that's a great question. I think we're just in such
(35:55):
uncharted territory. I think everything would be on the table.
But seeing guys play a ton in preseason, if guys
aren't in shape, I don't think they're starters. I don't
think God, I don't think coaches would risk putting their
better players in harm's way. It doesn't make sense, especially
if you hadn't played football basically all year long. Right
if the if the off season is wiped out, that
(36:17):
means all these guys that met at Max are just
working one on one with a trainer, and who knows,
Like that's not your typical you know workout that these
guys are doing because most of these off season activities
the first month is just weightlifting. And usually if whoever
your fellow team, you usually read it, you're like, oh,
it's they got ninety nine participation percentage. Like most teams,
(36:39):
every guy shows up. That's why when Odell doesn't show
up or Tom Brady hasn't showed up, its story because
most teams, every player shows up. Why wouldn't you. You're
gonna give me up. I'm gonna get an incentive bonus
anyway for working out. I'm gonna lift, no matter what
I say it. All the time. Players that skip O
t A s like I I get you got and
Tom Brady gets a little more ladded two. But it's
(37:00):
like you get, you got like a two bonus and
you're working out with your teammates anyway. It is a
team sport. This isn't golf, isn't tennis. Was a Big
Bucks fan growing up. Do you think that Trent Dilfor
or Brad Johnson are good comparisons for Kirk Cousins. Both
one Super Bowls because they had elite defenses, and they both,
to my memory, were not super talented. I can't speak
(37:22):
on Trent Dilfor. I'm not old enough to kind of
remember how talented he was coming in the league. I mean,
I'm a freendent State guy. He clearly was a freak talent,
big arm He's talked about this on other podcasts. I
don't know if he was mature enough went to the
wrong situation. By the time he started playing for the Buccaneers,
he wasn't that talented. Brad Johnson watching that Super Bowl,
(37:43):
I think Kirk Cousins at this point in time is
better than either one of those two guys in their peak.
I think that's fair. Now, if you put Kirk Cousins
on the O two Bucks or the OH one Ravens,
you could win a Super Bowl for sure. So yeah,
is but is he the right comparison for that? I
(38:03):
don't think he is. I think the right comparison for
him is like it's like a Trent Green, remember when
he was with Kansas City, when Dick Vermeil got there
and they were scoring all those points. The physical characteristics
might be a little different. I just mean a guy
that puts up a lot of stats, but it's not
gonna beat anyone in the playoffs. You could argue Trent
reached probably better player. Krikus is gonna make a lot
(38:25):
of money, though, chrik Us is gonna make a boatload
of money for probably two career playoff wins. Uh does
Emanuel Sanders go into the Saints make perfect sense for
both sides. Seeing what Sean Payton has done with Taysom
Hill this past year makes me go crazy with what
can be done with Sanders added to the mix. Yeah,
(38:47):
he's a man of Sanders is a good player. I
mean the forty Niners, I know for a fact wanted
him back. They just had a price point they just
can't afford. And then once they trade to Forest Buckner
for pick, they're just gonna use pick on a receiver.
So Emmanuel Sanders is a legitimate starter on a super
Bowl team. He was. He came to the Niners and
(39:08):
had a huge in the forty Niners and not making
the Super Bowl last year, or would not have if
Emmanuel doesn't show up now. He is an older player,
he doesn't really have an injury history. He just has
one major injury in the Achilles. But I thought with
the Niners he looked fantastic. So you put him with
Jared Cook, with Kamara, with Taysom Hill, with Michael Thomas,
who I think some people forget had like a hundred
(39:31):
nine catches last year. Like seriously, he had a hundred
forty eight catches he's a monster. So you put him
with Cook and Breeze, Yeah, they should. And he's really
the other thing about a manually's really smart football smart.
So the transition with no offseason, I don't think it'll
be that difficult. Who do you see the Niners taking
at thirteen? If they stay at thirteen, I think they
(39:54):
go a couple of routes. I think receiver is the
thing that makes the most sense. It would be Rugs Judy.
I don't think Ceedee Lamb makes that much sense for
them because they already have debo. Now you could argue,
just get Deebo Sea Bowl, Ceedee Lamb and just start
rocking and rolling with Kittle. But I also think defensive line,
you can never have enough defensive lineman. They just traded Buckner.
(40:15):
If a sweet defensive lineman's there, I wouldn't complain about
drafting one, especially when you also have picked thirty one
and you can take a wide receiver there. So as
the forty show last year they traded or they took
Deebo Samuel in the second round. He was one of
their best players this year. The good thing with the
draft when you have depth at a position and you
have multiple picks high in the first or second round,
(40:37):
you can wait. You know, you don't need to force
a need if you have a better player on your board,
you know, rated like a corner. The Niners need a corner.
Richards two years old and he's going into his last
year of his contract. The opposite corners Emmanuel Moseley, who's
an undrafted free agent. So I don't know enough about
this corner draft. I'm gonna have to text around. But
(40:58):
if there's a corner that justifies thirteenth overall pick, I
think that could easily do that. Big fan of the podcast,
I'm a diehard Browns fan, and I'm curious about they're ineptitude.
Their failures go back to the Learner family, like a
dozen different regimes. Were they all just bad groups? Or
is it really easy as that bad of a note
(41:19):
or is it really just as easy as they have
had a bad ownership. I remember Phil Savage telling me,
who's with the Jets? Now? Who was the GM there?
With the Learners? The Learners were just never around. They
just didn't really care about football. Uh So, I just
think you had much more pressure on the GM. I mean,
Phil will tell you he just hired the wrong coach
Romeo Cornell. You can't win Romeo Cornell. If you hired
(41:42):
the right coach, maybe they win. Uh. This this new
ownership and Jimmy Haslum, I think he's just too big
of a micro manager. You know, you've had the opposite
ends of the spectrum. The Learners just didn't give a
ship at all and had nothing to do with anything,
and then you have Jimmy Haslum that just has his
hands in like the practice squad. There's gotta be a balance,
(42:03):
and I think the best organizations, you know, the one
I have that i've worked for, the Eagles, I think
Jeffrey Lury is a great balance. He knows what's going
on in the draft, but he's not telling you who
to draft. He knows what's going on in free agency,
but he's not telling you who to sign. And I
see it here with the Niners. Like listen Jed the
debacle of Jim Harbaugh. That that was bad and that
was really ugly. But I defend Jed in the sense
(42:25):
of he just kind of stays out of their way,
but whatever they need, he gives them, And I think
that's good owners have that all around the league. Look
at the teams that consistently win. I think Robert Kraft
is a good balance. I think the dude in Minnesota
does a good job. Uh. I think, uh, you know,
Jerry's kind of unique. Clearly, Paul Allen was Seattle whatever
(42:46):
they needed. With Pete Carroll. With John Schnyder, he's around,
or he was, I mean before he passed away, but
he's not. You can't have an owner telling you who
to sign, and I think some of these owners do that.
The Steelers, I mean, actually most of the ownership in
the NFL is pretty high level. Big Falcons fan. With
all the attention Tampa's getting, and it is justified, but
(43:07):
everyone's saying it's a two team race between them and
the Saints. My question, do you think the Falcons can
make it a three team race or even with Carolina,
the NFC South could be far deeper. Yeah, I don't
think Caroline is gonna be very good. My question on
the Falcons is, let's see, they trying to think of
some of their moves. So they they let Austin Hooper
walk and they get Hayden Hurst, so maybe that becomes
(43:30):
a wash. I mean, Austin Hooper is probably better player.
They still got Julio, they still got Calvin Ridley, they
got Maddie Ice, they signed Todd Gurley, which who knows.
Their defense was much better in the second half and
for the most part last year they scored points early
in the season. It was they couldn't stop anybody because
their defense was atrocious. They do have talent on the team. Uh,
just thinking of the roster. They don't have a great
(43:51):
pass rusher. They do have team speed in their secondary.
Didn't they released Esmond true font Uh the middle linebacker
they've had for a while. Dion Jones a good player. Yeah,
I mean I would say Tampa I have more faith.
I think Bruce Arians a better coach than dan Quinn.
That to me is a huge element. Let's even say
Maddie Ice and Matt and Tom Brady in two thousand
twenty are the same player. I just I have more
(44:13):
faith in Bruce Arians than I do dan Quinn. That
being said, like dan Quinn's had successful teams, had playoff teams.
So yeah, I don't think we can just discount the
Falcons as being some you know, slap team next year,
like a six seven win team. I think if it
all goes right, they could win nine ten games. Obviously
need a good draft. I've been listening to your podcast
(44:34):
since the first time it showed up on the Herd Feed.
I wish you were the talent that replaces Coward when
he was on vacation back a few months ago. I
remember you mentioned you growing up and followed the teams
you could watch. I was born in Puerto Rico. I
started to follow sports in the late seventies. The game
of the week always was the Yankees and cable TV
the Boston feed. So I became a Yankees, Boston Celtics
and the San Fransco forty Niners fans. Those are my teams.
(44:57):
Uh So now on TV all I had is the
New York market. Funny, now I'm a Yankees, Nicks, and
New York Giants fan. To finish, I agree with you
that kids follow players and not teams. So this was
just a nice little note. I appreciate it. Yeah, I
do think it depends where you live. If you live
in certainly, if you grow up in New York, you're
(45:18):
gonna grow up for the New York teams. If you
grew up in the Bay Area, l A, You're gonna
be a Dodger Laker fan or a Niner Warrior fan.
To me, if you grew up in certain areas that
like North Dakota, you might just gravitate to who's winning,
you know, kids basketball. I think it's a little more national.
I mean, I grew up, I was born in eighty four.
A lot of people are getting on me because they
(45:39):
sell Parcels one with the same quarterback twice. People like
Jeff Hussteller. He he Phil Sims got hurt. It's like, okay, guys,
I'm sorry. Some of my eighties history is a little
hit or miss. I feel confident talking anything nineties four,
so I you know, I try to expand. I'm not
Belichick historian here, but you're right, he won with two quarterbacks.
You know, I'm thirty five, not sixty. My bad. I
(46:02):
got a lot of people on me. Middlef Parcels won
with two different quarterbacks. Your theory is wrong. Like, okay,
I get it. Big fan cal Paul Alum, I like it.
Sacramento Guy Rockland also a huge Eagles fan. I love
the interview with Howie. I was curious if you think
realistically going to take in the first round of the draft.
I know The most early mocks have the Eagles taken
Henry Ruggs, but after his forty at the combine, I'm
(46:24):
sure he won't be available. I got a quick hot
take Henry Ruggs goes in the top ten. Do you
think the Eagles will take the next best wide receiver
Justine Jefferson or best player available. Most mocks are showing Jefferson,
but a situation reminds me a lot of taking Nelson,
nagailor late in the first Yes, I think Jefferson is
a better player than Nelson, but I don't like the
idea of taking a fourth best wide receiver that early
when the draft is so deep at wide receiver. Maybe
(46:46):
they can get a middle linebacker, O line, D line.
What are your thoughts? Yeah, I think you can never
with them. Linebacker has to be an option. Maybe Kenneth
Murray from Oklahoma. They need more team speeded linebacker. They
have a million defensive line right MILLI Malik Jackson's coming back.
They just signed the guy from Pittsburgh Fletcher still there.
They have Derek Barnett their offensive line. They drafted the
(47:08):
kid from Washington State last year's taken over for Jason Peters.
I don't necessarily agree with taking the fourth best wide
receiver in a draft, even if it's a deep wide
receiver draft, because if if it's a good wide receiver draft,
think about the draft it was Mike Evans draft. It
was like Mike Evans, Brandon Cooks, Odell Beckham Jr. I
(47:30):
think DeAndre Hopkins. That might have been the year before.
But they were like four or five really good wide
receivers in that draft, and the fourth guy like, that's fine.
Like if the fourth guy is good, the fourth guy
is good, and sometimes on your board, the fourth wide
receiver off the board is the second guy off your board.
But I would I would say historically the Eagles have
(47:52):
never taken a middle linebacker that high UH defensive line,
offensive line. They always believe in that, and wide receiver
they've had Jeremy Mack Whinn Nelson didn't was not that great,
Deshaun was an early second round pick. I just and
you asked, also, do you think there's any chance for
Joannick I I don't really think that's an option. We
(48:12):
got a lot of questions here, Jeez, Louise, Okay, this
might be the last one. We're almost a fifty minutes,
love the pod and for perfectly time to f bombs,
keeping me saying, while being stuck in the firehouse, with
the Niners being so close to winning at all, why
not just keep Buckner and tag and trade him next year.
I know they got great value for him and would
probably get less next year, but with all the injuries
we had, were eight minutes away from number six, why
(48:35):
not just let it roll short window we do have,
especially with the projected cap going up. Also, what are
your thoughts on the Niners bringing in Sue saw it
against the run um Well, Sue, some of these are
old Sue obviously resigned with Tampa. I think the thing
is anytime you get a player on any on any
one of your teams, and I think Belichick's had a
(48:55):
good example of this, and you get to a position
you're like and Brandon Cook's probably bad because ample because
he traded him for a first round pick, But you
get a guy the Bucker was beloved, and he's a
really really good player. To me, he's like a B
plus a minus player. He's not an A A plus.
If Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald are a plus is
it's like Fletcher Cox's nay, he in his peak. Maybe
(49:18):
Fletcher's not anymore. He's not on that level. Chris Jones
probably an A A minus. He's a tick below Chris Jones.
But if you go, you know, I don't feel comfortable
giving this guy huge money and someone offers you pick thirteen,
I'm with you if the best option you could have
got was like pick eight, because you're like, well, I'm
not gonna get a player as good as the Force Buck.
(49:39):
But if I get picked thirteen in a draft that's
freaking loaded and three quarterbacks are gonna go on the
top ten, Meaning if I'm at thirteen, I'm gonna get
the tenth best non quarterback, and if Jordan Loves somehow
goes in that area, I might get the ninth best
non quarterback. I Also, you can always trade back off
thirteam to like twenty, to gain like multiple second round picks.
It gives you so many is they didn't have any picks,
(50:01):
and one thing is gonna need is some cheap labor
because next year they're gonna have to pay Fred Warner,
probably extend Richard Sherman. Uh, they just paid Eric Armstead.
They gotta pay George Kittle. They're gonna need to buy
a couple of players in free agency. They already don't
have that much cap space. I I think it was
as simple as they just sometimes what did uh Don
(50:22):
Corleone say, once upon our Vito corleons once something. I'm
gonna make him an offer he can't refuse. You get it.
You get offered the thirteenth pick, Like, how many non
quarterbacks would you not trade for the pick? Kittle? Uh,
Michael Thomas, Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack. You start going around
(50:43):
the league non quarterbacks, it's a short list, you know.
If you told me trying to think of a good
player and a good team. Let's think of a team
in the in the a f C Championship. Who's the
Titans best player? You trade Derrick Henry in a heartbeat
for pick thirteam? Uh? The Chief EEFs obviously wouldn't a
non quarterback. They trade Kelsey pick at this point in
(51:07):
time and Kelsey is years old. You can turn that now.
Maybe just because they're in this window to try to
win some Super Bowls. The Packers would they trade DeVante
fort pick? Probably not any other players? Aius gone for
pick and I love Zadarius Smith. But it's just the
thirteenth pick is a very very powerful pick, and I
(51:29):
think it would just make any team in the league
for basically any one of their non quarterbacks beside maybe
players in the league that would make you think about it.
Appreciate everyone listening. Stay safe, stay inside, stay quarantined. Flatten
the curve so we get back to life and keep
your head up, enjoy life, enjoy the weekend, and uh
(51:50):
stay safe. God bless
What is going on everybody? John Middlecoff Threeing Out podcast.
That's me. That's the show, Live from Quarantine, A lot
of quarantine in and a lot of chilling, and uh,
I kind of cracked earlier this week. I can't watch
another movie. I can't watch another television show. I started
(00:30):
watching super Bowls and I watched the O two Super
Bowl and it got me thinking about John Madden was
calling the game. Peyton Manning turned down Monday Night Football,
and I have some thoughts there the Panthers and this
whole Cam Newton saga, them signing Teddy Bridgewater. I want
to like Matt Rule. I mean I do, based on
(00:53):
his opening press conference and just how good he was
in college. I got some questions, you know, I'm not
sure I see what he's cooking up. And then we're
gonna have a long middlecough mail bag at John Middlecoff
is my Instagram handle d MS wide open slide on in.
You're welcome to ask any questions how we interact here
(01:14):
on the show and just fire away I got. I
got so many questions, be a large segment today and uh,
and if you can, you know, I don't know where
you are all over the country or hell of the world.
You're quarantine and leave a little a little review on
Apple or iTunes if you like the show on the
Under the three and Out Under the Three and Out podcast,
(01:35):
I would, uh, I would greatly appreciate that. It's been
uh been a lot of hanging out, a lot of eating.
I've been eating. You know, I naturally kind of work
from home anyway, but I've lost a little bit of
my discipline in this in these quarantine times. But I'm
staying positive. Keep your head up, and we'll just keep
on swinging, baby, Stay quarantined. Stay. Uh. Let's let's stop
(01:59):
this so we can get out of the coronavirus for
the love of God and uh back to some semblance
you know, of reality. But until then, we'll just have
to talk about football here on the podcast. Well we
do that anyway. And I was watching the O two
Super Bowl with John Madden against his former team that
had actually just traded him. I tweeted it out. I
(02:22):
actually think the trade is one of the more underrated
moves in sports history. It was only less than twenty
years ago a coach got traded for two first rounders
to second rounders and eight million. It's insane, and uh,
I understand why John has a big ego. I mean,
if I got traded for two first rounders, two second rounders,
and eight million dollars, if you had inflation, it's probably
(02:43):
like fifteen million dollars. Digs and Hopkins combined went for
less than that. Think about that. So I get it.
But John Madden was on the call, and I'm watching
this game, and I was just kind of drawn in
Skinny tan Al Michaels. The game was at Coal Calm
in San Diego. It was sweet, and Madden was incredible.
(03:04):
I mean, he's He's one of the great true if
you think about it, TV stars in American history. I'm
talking Seinfeld, Ted Dancing with Cheers, uh, Gandel Feenie with
sopranos Like John Madden is easily the most famous famous
UH analyst in the history of sports. Definitely the highest
(03:25):
paid up until Tony Romo. I mean, he was making
eight million back in ninety two the video game. He
was a rock star. But when you watch it, you
go some sometimes football fans on like Twitter, that there's
a reason, like none of the analytical guys have massive
media followings. It's like to be a big television star
talking about football, you gotta kind of play to the
(03:47):
person that doesn't know that much about football. When you
get too niche and you start talking about schemes and play,
it goes over people's head. Now you gotta dive into
what you see. And Tony ro almost probably on the
extreme end of that. But when you watched John Madden,
you just went this guy is awesome. He gave so
much energy. He talked about whams and bams and hitting
(04:09):
people in the mouth and shoving it down people's throats.
It's like, yeah, this is football. And then it would
go to clips of John Madden and he was so excited.
He was actually a little older at this time. I
mean he's still he's still going strong. I don't know strong,
but he's still around now in two thousand twenty. But
on his television career, I think it was down the
home stretch out look fantastic. But he was just a
(04:29):
rock star. And really there's only been two guys since
that have even come close. Obviously John Gruden. I wouldn't
say it was John Madden, but he was damn close.
He was a made four TV just star. He was incredible,
mainly like John Madden played to the casual NFL fan,
the extreme NFL fan like me or if you're listening,
(04:50):
we're gonna watch no matter what. Now we're gonna get
angry at guys like Booger, but we're still watching Monday
Night football. The casual guy, and definitely in Madden's time
was drawn in because of John Madden. John Gruden had
a little bit of that to him. Tony Romo doesn't
necessarily have that. I don't think like people aren't coming
to the game for Tony Romo. He's calling the top
(05:12):
game on Sunday besides Sunday Night Football. It's Jim Nance
is the afternoon national game. Typically over the last decade
it's been the Patriots, the Steelers, Mahomes. I mean, it's
it's the best game of the day. But Romo is
really good. And Romo, like Gruden and like Madden, have
this quality of you know what, I want to hang
with that guy, or damn, I think that guy is
(05:34):
pretty damn cool, or he's just really likable. And that's
one of the things you have to be when you're
on television to be a star is to be likable.
Madden had that to the nth degree. Gruden wasn't far behind,
and clearly Tony Romo has it now. Cann he maintain it?
He's only been doing it for a couple of years.
I think he can because he's naturally just a pretty
likable human being. And I I stumbled upon again, I
(05:57):
can't watch any more television shows. I can't watch to
any more movies. I just want to watch some freaking sports.
So I'm flipping around the channels and I end up
on Peyton's places and it's I had never seen a
lot of Peyton stuff that he's done with ESPN, but
he he did all these historical moments, I guess four ESPN,
these little like fifteen minutes segments, and they put it
(06:18):
together in like an hour long special. One of them
was he got with like Terry Bradshaw and some dudes
for the Raiders and Frank o'harris and they re enacted
the uh, the Immaculate Reception. And then he got with
Joe Montana and Bill Walsh's old office in the museum
at Levi's and they talked about Walsh, and you just
realize Pitton Manning is just a star. And when the
(06:40):
cameras on. He's just great and we all think back
to when he hosted Saturday Night Live, how awesome it
was when he did the scenes of throwing the footballs
at the little kids. I mean, he's just great. He
really is just fantastic. And he turned down Monday Night Football.
I think it was like on Monday of this week,
so this I probably could have done this story on Tuesday,
but we've had so much else going on, and it's
(07:02):
a pretty big blow, you know. I I think you
never truly know till you get a guy on TV,
but I think you know, right sometimes you think, like
Rex Ryan's gonna be really good on TV. I watched
Rex Ryan on TV is terrible and Tony Romo, I
I didn't know he'd be this good. I mean, I
thought it was a pretty big stretch. Jason witten Hell
got the Monday Night game and was it was like
watching paint dry by the second game. Jon Gruden had
(07:24):
it from day one. I don't know if John Madden
quote unquote had it from day one. I was really young,
but clearly he was made for the job. Watching Peyton
Manning just on TV doing non football stuff. Uh, even
though it's related to football, just host a show, host
different segments. He just has that special you know what.
(07:45):
Like he he would have been absolutely incredible and like
Romo and like Madden and like Gruden when he's in
that star mode. Even though he's worth hundreds of millions
of dollars, he's one of the greatest quarterbacks ever. People
like me and you have little to nothing in common
with the guy. He was born into a family whose
(08:07):
dad played in the NFL and was really famous. He
was like the top recruit went to Tennessee, was the
number one. He's a blue chipper of blue Chipper. But
there's this He's able to do this despite being really
famous and over his life. Right when he branded Forever,
h Collin always made fun of him because he picked
these brands a little like shacks like Peyton. There's no
(08:27):
way you're driving a Honda Accord or Peyton. Come on, man,
You're you're not eating Hoggin Dodge cookie and cream ice cream. Uh.
Tom's much more picky right with the brands that he
aligns with ugs uh, like a Rolex or net Jets
or it's just all super high end UH brands. I
was listening to this podcast about Greg Norman, the golfer
(08:50):
No laying up if you're into golf. They have a
great podcast and they just did this oral history of
Greg Norman and the one thing they were talking about
Greg Norman is he was a lot like Tom Brady,
where you see a lot of golf first, it's like Nascar,
and I don't know where I'd fall. If I had
the opportunity people started writing big checks, I probably would
take it. But Greg Norman was very, very picky. It
was all like Brady elite stuff, Range, Rover Land, Rover, Rolex,
(09:15):
his own brand that he vertically integrated into his Reebok
contract and he kind of owns it like Jordan does
the Jordan brand through Nike. Greg Norman did that. For
Peyton Manning was just more like yeah, I'll do whatever,
and it always worked. You would see him pitching these
ads Chicken Palm with Brad Paisley. It's like, God, I
could hang out with Peyton. I really could. I used
(09:38):
to hear stories when I was scouting h from some
buddies that worked for the Broncos. I remember being like,
what's it like Peyton Manning in your building. They're like,
oh my god, he is wearing everyone out. He had
to need special video coordinators, and I mean wearing people
out in a good way. Obviously you're gonna win. But
he was intense, like he had things. He was like
a coach. I mean he had certain it ups that
(10:00):
he needed on certain days. He was your typical player, like,
oh yeah, give me, you tell me what I need.
Peyton knew what he needed was like Belichick of players,
and it was really intense. So I started thinking, why
would he turn this job down? Because he's clearly it
would be an enormous deal. It would be probably the
biggest name. He would be right there in line with Madden, Gruden, Manning.
(10:23):
Because whoever hired and made this think about this, whoever
put Joe testa tour, uh Witten and and then Booker
the boogermore bi mobile and then this year when Witton
bounced because he realized he can say whatever he wants
and listen. I like Jason Witten. I've heard him several
interviews over the years. He is a super high level guy. Honestly,
he his personality. He could be a senator, he could
(10:45):
be a general manager of a team. He is. He's
fifty times more high level than myself. I mean, when
I listen to him jealous, I'm like, I wish I
was more like that guy. Not everyone's made for media.
You gotta just have I don't even know. I don't
even know how to quantify either got it or you don't,
and Peyton has it. I think Peyton would be a
star because of how much he likes football. I wonder,
(11:07):
and a couple of theories I have why he turns
it down. One is I don't think Peyton man like
I can do media guy. I can just watch a game,
jot down some notes, and just let it flow. I
don't know if Peyton Manning is wired like that. I
think going into every game he would spend so much time.
I bet he's loving life right now. He's worth all
this money. He's able to focus his ideas on business.
(11:29):
He's always at like the Denver Nuggets games with his kids.
I think he has a pretty balanced life, and for
probably twenty years he had no balance in his life.
It was football, football, football, football, and then the off
season was family. But it was football football for those
six months during the season. There wasn't like fifty fifty
football and then hanging out with the kids. It was
like nine nine football and then that one kind of
(11:51):
his kids. Just because that's the way he operated. He
had to. And I'm thinking watching him when he's recreating
this video trying to do the immatulate reception with co Harris,
you realize, well, he wasn't a great athlete. He never
had a great arm, you know. Really one of the
points of difference of Peyton Manning was his mind and
his work ethic. He outworked you and he thought you
(12:12):
because by no means was he the most physically gifted.
Rarely even relative to the other quarterback like Tom Brady
has a much better arm than Peyton Manning. I mean,
neither could move that well. But it was all upstairs,
so I wouldn't if he's thinking, listen, if I do
this and they're gonna pay him fifteen sixteen million dollars,
I can't imagine the feeling of someone being like, hey man,
(12:33):
you want to do like a fifteen Monday night football games.
You can pick whoever you want to do the play
by play with. We we'll pay a fifteen million. So
you do the math. You know, fifteen million will sign
you to a five year contract. You know, what's that
seventy million dollars pays like nah, no, you know, I'm
I'm good. I like, like imagine turned down like seventy five. Hell,
maybe they offered him ten year contract. Tony Romo got
(12:54):
a ten year contract. Who knows, and just saying no,
I'm good and I just wonder if he can't half
asked is the wrong word, But he's worried that he
wouldn't be able to do it without kind of dedicating
his life to diving into both teams, diving into the schemes,
approaching it like a player, and he knows he can't
really turn it off. And that's really grew never turned
(13:16):
it off right. He was notorious for, even when he
did Monday Night football, for still going into that office
at four in the morning watching the tape. And he
was able to kind of keep that lifestyle going in
a media way but still in a coaching way. When
he's made this transition back, I mean, I know people
on the Raider staff that say, you better believe he's
(13:37):
still coming in at four in the morning. They will
tell you I've never been around someone that I think
likes football that much. It makes you question, as a
football coach, do I like football enough, and I think
Peyton Manning has some of that in him where I
I just I think that holds him back. And I
also my other theory would just be he really really
(13:57):
wants to be a GM an L way you know, president,
maybe even a partial owner like a Michael Jordan, but
also picked the players, and he's just keeping his eye
on the prize. He's able to do his own research,
he's able to keep making money with his business ventures,
and he's able to be very flexible. And the one
thing Monday Night football would not allow him to be
(14:18):
able to do is be really flexible, like there is
a set schedule. You're flying in, you know every Saturday
or Friday, start meeting with the coaches. Clearly his film
prep would start, and he wouldn't have the ability maybe
to make his investments to try to grow his portfolio,
so he can come in as you know, one of
those kind of quote unquote part time or minority owners.
(14:40):
I guess it wouldn't be part time. It would be
a you know, less than obviously, no one's gonna give
him a majority stake in a team, and he probably
doesn't have the money, but just give him five and
make him the president of the team, and that that
would be my guest, because he's now turned down Monday
Night Football basically a couple of times. And if he's
not gonna do it now, is he gonna do it
when he's in five six years? And this again, I
(15:04):
would love for him to do it. I think he
would be I think he was made for it. He
would be a superstar. It really speaks to his talents. Right,
He's a great quarterback. I think he could easily run
a team, own a team. I think he'd immediately be
one of the great broadcasters of all time. And it
leaves us with ESPN with where do they go? You
know they want Drew Brees, Philip Rivers, those guys are
(15:26):
playing I think I think money and that football is
kind of screwed. This was This wasn't just their hail Mary.
This was their only shot of being kind of felt
like they were legitimate. Right now, they're just gonna band
aid it year to year until they hopefully they can
get one of these guys. And the hard thing is,
even with Rivers and Breeze, you know they're not gonna
need the money these guys have accumulated hundreds of millions
(15:49):
of dollars. When you factor in endorsements too, especially with
Drew Brees, you know it's gonna be it's gonna be
really difficult. And even Drew Brees, I don't know how
good Drew Brees would be. I mean, he's a great guy.
He just gave him and his wife gave five million
dollars in the Saints. Just a fantastic human being. I
mean a ten out of ten as a human That
doesn't necessarily make you a great media guy. Rivers I
(16:10):
think would be pretty damn good. But I just wonder
if he would just jump right in to do TV,
you know, especially if he plays a couple more years
for the Colts. So it's just one of those what
could have been, because I think Peyton Manning would have
would have immediately been an al Teimer. Let's dive into
the Panthers and they've had a week in my opinion
(16:31):
that has made me go, what the hell are they doing.
I've never been the biggest Cam Newton guy, though I've
always respected his elite talent. He's he's a physical freak.
He's had some moments in the league. His MVP year
he was fantastic, and when he's on, he can go
to battle with any top quarterback in any team. He's
(16:51):
he's elite when he's on. Now he's also off. You know,
ball sale on him. Uh these last couple of years
shoulder foot, major injury questions. But I will say this,
he's accomplished a lot in the NFL, from being the
number one pick to the m v P to be
in the starting quarterback for a team that made the
playoffs countless times. He's on a he was on a
(17:14):
really cheap contract if you're Matt Rule, and listen. When
Matt Rule was hired, I watched his press conference and
it was like Nick Saban meets a church sermon. It
was really impressive. It made you go, damn, I want
to play for that guy. But then you take a
step back and you go, you know, this guy doesn't
have any NFL experience beside one year. Are we sure
(17:34):
he knows what he's doing because he gets rid of
all these older players which are still functional players. If
I was him, I just want to kept Cam Newton
this year. If he's terrible and gets injured again, then
I'll cut him after this year and we're bad and
we go get Trevor Lawrence. What I would not do
is signed Teddy Bridgewater because Teddy Bridgewater is good enough
where you're gonna win five to seven games. You're not
(17:57):
gonna be drafted in the top five, but he's not
good enough in your team to take you to the playoffs. Now,
I get it from a culture standpoint, Teddy's a super
high level guy. He's really impressive individual. People love Teddy Bridgewater.
He also has experience in the division as a backup,
and when you're the backup, you're used to doing a
lot of different things. Well, scout team, with the coaching staff,
(18:18):
you're a big part of the game plan. Right you're
working hand in hand with Drew and Sean Payton. But
you already have that in Cam Newton. He's been this
division for a decade, and I get Cam can wearry out.
He can be a diva sometimes. But I actually think
this was an easy one. When Chip Kelly got the
job in Philadelphia, he kept Mike Vic for a season.
You know why, because you're like, why not? Because you
(18:40):
might actually have something if he has gotten himself healthy.
Now you can tell me, well, the Panthers are gonna
know more about Cam's health than anyone, and I'd say
that's true. But we've seen some videos he was working
out on Instagram with the shirt off. He looks fantastic.
I mean, hell, Cam Newton. I saw Cam Newton working
harder in one video on Instagram that I've seen Baker
Mayfiel two years on social media. So he's got him beat.
(19:04):
But that rule is trying. One thing I thought they
were gonna do is kind of blow it up and
then start over kind of next year, and that's not
exactly what they're doing, especially with Teddy Bridgewater. I also
thought the way they handled this Cam Newton situation, if
you are going to kick him to the curb, which
is essentially what they did, just cut the guy. He
had no trade market. They should have known that. They've
(19:27):
been trying to trade him all off season. No one's
gonna trade for him because the unknown of the injuries
with the Corona it makes it impossible. Because if Cam
had a full bill of health, I do think someone
would have traded a six round pick for him. He
doesn't make very much money at relative to a starting quarterback.
Plus he's basically on a year to your contract and
kind of whatever you want for nothing. It would have
(19:47):
been an easy one, but at this point in time,
no one's gonna trade for him. Yet they dragged it
out all week. Cam Newton, the Carolina Panthers, the majority
of my life have been irrelevant. They had the O
two or oh three season when they made the Super Bowl.
For the gjority of it. They just haven't really mattered.
And Cam Newton is by far. Maybe he's not the
best player. That might be Luke Kickley, might be Julius Peppers,
might be Cam. Whatever, he's easily their most famous player,
(20:11):
and he's easily the most important player in franchise history.
He put that franchise on the map in a big,
big way, made him nationally relevant because because what he is.
At the end of the day, I don't know if
he still is this guy, but he's a superstar to me.
The way you treat that guy on the way out
is not start tweeting last week that you're thinking about
(20:32):
trading him, and you've given him the opportunity to reach
out to other teams either trade him or not and
cut him. But don't do the dog and Pony show
where you end up cutting him a week later. It's
just kind of low level. And this is what happens
when you got Matt Rules from college. Who guess what
happens in college. You can't cut anybody. Your team's your team.
You got Dave Temper, which is probably worried about the
(20:53):
market tanking and his new coach. It doesn't quite understand this.
And I think David Temper and Matt Rule in a
vacuum a really high level guy. But this is situation
dealing with a you know, it's kind of a sensitive
subject when you're cutting a franchise quarterback, someone who's taken
you to places that and made you relevant to a
level that you have and typically been like he does.
(21:15):
He was owed to me, and again you're you're listening
to someone that is not a huge Cam Newton individual
like Cam Newton, Ate John Middle costs favorite player. He
deserved way better than the way they treated him on
the way out. It wasn't that difficult. Just keep it
under wraps. If you can't trade him, cut him like
you did Greg Olsen. He probably should have been cutting
before the free agency open. Now. I get it, it
(21:37):
is a business and they were hoping to trade him,
but you should have had a feel he was gonna
be untradeable with his injuries, and if you're trying to
trade him, you're basically acknowledging you're healthy. And this is
back to why didn't you just roll with him? This year?
You're going with Teddy Bridgewater, You're signing Robby Anderson. It's
like they're getting the whole Temple University alum. It's a
little bit higher level with a signed p J. Walker,
(22:00):
the other guy from Temple that was in the XFL.
It has a little bit of a Chip Kelly feel
to it. It's like, are you just signing these guys
because you know him? Aren't you the culture guy? Aren't
use bolts to send the tempo? Cam's been around Ron
Rivera for nine years, who's an old school hard ass.
They got along fine, They figured it out. They had
no issues. Like, again, if you think Cam is gonna
(22:22):
disrupt your locker room, I don't think that's really been
his issue. Now. Can you act like a diva sometimes
on game day? Sure? But the one thing that never
came out with Ron Rivera's you know, this guy is
a pain in my ass. That's not really how he felt.
Right now, they tried to be smarter about the way
they ran him to tried to change their offense to
protect them a little more football things. But when you
(22:45):
think culture, like did they overvalue culture? Teddy Bridgewater sixty
million dollars? Teddy Bridge was a good backup, great kid.
If you're starting quarterback for sixteen games or three straight years,
you're in no man's land. And I'm no man's land.
So is right off the bat is Matt Rule valuing
(23:05):
character and people that he knows more than just talent
and talent. When I say, like, you can sign talented
players that you don't know, coaches do it all over
the league all the time. Like Kyle Shanahan didn't know DeFord,
they traded for him. Okay, they're starting defensive end. Like,
to be a good coach in this league, you have
(23:25):
to be somewhat uncomfortable being around guys that you don't
know that much about. Obviously, you have done research, you
have reports on them coming out of college. But in
free agency, like, I don't really get it, and I
don't think there really is a plan because now I
think that they're probably thinking, maybe we can be kind
of good. Well, you're not gonna be kind of good
because the Saints are really good. Tampa is gonna be
(23:46):
better than you, and even the Falcons, now they pulled
the coaches names out of a hat and started playing
well at the end of the season, are just better
than you. Two. You're gonna be the worst team in
that division. So if you're gonna be the worst team
in that division, you might as well just be really
shitty and be in position to draft one of these
top two quarterbacks and not in a way where you're
actively trying to tank right now. But it makes no sense.
(24:07):
I can't wrap my head around giving sixty million. I
google that. I never saw the official guaranteed number. But
it doesn't matter. I mean, they're paying Teddy Bridgewater twenty
million dollars a year and they're at least tied to
him this season, and you might as well if you
were gonna get rid of Camp, I would have just
rolled like Kyle Allen and signed case keenum Teddy Bridge.
I just I don't get it. And I think sometimes
(24:30):
with Chip Kelly, these high level guys, they get into
this level that they're not used to, they're not comfortable with,
and they can be overwhelmed and they can do stupid
things and they can put themselves. They can actually take
a step back before they ever take a step forward.
And sometimes if you take several steps back, you're never
able to make up for it. And Matt Rule, I
(24:51):
get he got up six seven year contract, but I
don't know, man, I already I don't have a full
on red flag. But I'm just I'm watching that a
little differently than I would have when he was originally hired. Okay,
let's dive into the middlecoff mail bag first, I just
want to read, uh this tweet by Adam Schefter. It's
(25:13):
just fantastic. Roger goodellson out a memo tonight. I'm recording this.
It's like six o'clock Thursday night. The memo basically said,
the draft is happening, the date is not being changed,
so just proceed as normal given the circumstances. In Roger
Goodell's memo, this is what you haveter wrote that the
draft he served a warning to those around the league
(25:34):
that criticizes the league stands. Goodell wrote, public discussion of
issues relating to the draft serves no useful purpose, and
his grounds for disciplinary action. I love that that That
that to me reminds me a lot of David Stern.
Uh listen, we can all be critical of Roger Goodell
(25:56):
over the years. He's done some stupid things. But that's
that's what the commit term needs to say. Like the
Corona sucks for everybody, We're not changing the draft. Shut
up about it and figure it out. Meanwhile, every five
minutes Adam Silver's leaking something to woad Manfred always screws up.
Say what you want about Roger Goodell the NFL, I
mean it's not all. I mean, he doesn't deserve, you know,
(26:17):
full credit, but he's drawn a line, hard line in
the sand. He's been a part of the greatest economic
growth in league history. Football is now America's pastime and
he's led the pro league. So like the other two
commissioners would die to be at Roger Goodell right now,
his league is the one that Prince cash the other ones.
The NFL is taken on water by the day. I
(26:40):
call it one of our great economic bubbles right now
in any industry. The NBA, if they don't play the
rest of the season, I mean you you're you're gonna
see the league having to give out loans and some
of their franchises, even some of their bigger franchises, like
the Houston Rockets, they're in shambles because their owner is
deep in one he borrowed money against the team. He
(27:01):
doesn't have any outside help because he privately owns everything.
He's also in the casino business. They're all shut down.
He's screwed. And then you have all the small markets
are in major trouble. So listen, We've all talked a
lot of shit about Roger Goodell over the years. Some
of it was justified, but I gotta give him credits
these last several years, and that's saying, just shut your mouth.
The Draft is happening. We're doing it. And you know
(27:22):
what the draft is gonna do when when they hosted
on the it'll be the highest rated draft in NFL history.
It'll be it might be one of the highest rated
sports events in a long long time, just given how
think about this. It's mark We're about a month away
from the draft. No sports still then none, we don't
have anything. We're just they're all canceled for the foreseeable future. Nothing.
(27:44):
We're just watching Netflix and and HBO and I'm losing
my I got Food Network on in the background. I
can only watch so much news here about the coronas
so many times, I just I just want a game.
I can't wait for the draft. We're obviously gonna talk
a lot about the draft over the UH over the
next month. Thank god for the draft. Okay, was wondering
(28:04):
your thoughts on the Colts offseason moves thus far. Obviously,
on paper, they are better than last season, but it's
what they have done really the best plan for winning
a Super Bowl as soon as possible. I just don't
feel adding a geriatric Philip Rivers Buckner and whatever other
free agent or rookie they acquire this offseason is gonna
be near enough to make the Super Bowl. Are they
delusional with this wind now strategy or do you honestly
(28:25):
think they have a shot at making the ship. To me,
it seems like they will be the same mediocre fringe
playoff position they are always in. Well, I think if
Jacobe Risette stays healthy last year, they are competitive to
get the last wild card spot. When you look at
their division, you go the Houston Texans, which feel like
they win it all the time. If the Colts don't
(28:48):
win it, they got worse. They got rid of their
best player, traded the Clowney's long gone, Wat's a year older,
Watson seems unhappy, and they have no draft picks. So
if it wasn't for the sec around or that came
with David Johnson, they would really have nothing. Now, if
David Johnson is good, it would help them out, but
still they're they're receiving threat Hopkins has averaged. I think
(29:10):
like he had a hundred fourteen catches two years ago
and I think a hundred four last year. And he's
just a dominant blue chip player. So they're worse. The
Jaguars stink. I mean, they are awful. So if I'm
the Colts, I go the Texans. They still got Bill
O'Brien Deshaun Watson. They'll be feisty, but I don't view
them as a playoff team. And then I got the
Titans too, are really good. So can we beat the Titans?
(29:33):
And Steve mcdair and Eddie George ain't walking through the door.
Well maybe Eddie George is and Derrick Henry but we'll
see on Ryan Tannehill solid player, good player. I like Grabel,
I love John Robinson, like that team solid, but I
think they're them in the culture like the same thing.
If Rivers is good and he should be inside the dome,
then you guys got a chance to be pretty good. Really,
that's simple. It's if if the quarterback plays high level
(29:56):
and he can elevate people. Now the weapons, I'd have
to pull up the roster, but t Y has gotta
stay healthy. Um, you know that they're gonna have to
draft a wide receiver. Clearly pick the forty Niners are
gonna use that on a receiver. The culture gonna have
to hit on a second or third round wide receiver.
And even sometimes when we draft a guy that you
(30:16):
know in the second round, think about like Davante Adams,
who's you know, a top seven eight wide receiver in
the league, top six seven whatever. It took him a
couple of years and he was a second round pick. Now.
Juju is another example of the second round pick that
was good right away, but it was a little easier
at Antonio Brown, so we got to kind of ease
into it even though he was productive from the jump.
Michael Thomas like, for every second round pick, that's sweet.
(30:38):
Some guys aren't a sweet, but they're gonna need immediate
like Debo, dk Metcalf with whoever they take in the
second round, they're they're gonna be They're gonna be on
that guy. To god, some of these questions are so long.
They're gonna need that guy to produce. Why doesn't since
he signed Cam and trade back for extra picks and
take to a to a Cam and a few extra
high round lineman sounds like a better yield to me
(31:00):
than just getting burrowed next year, they can move off
Cam handed to us, sort of like Casey moved off
Alex Smith. Think if you were Cincinnati and you picked
up the phone, you called Miami and you said, we
will take We'll give you one, we want five, we
want eighteen, and we want a second round pick this
year in a second round pick next year. And like
(31:21):
you said, Cam and to a not a crazy idea
at all. They're not going to do that. Mike Brown
doesn't think like that, but I can get behind that.
I actually think a flyer on Cam just given you
know what if he is healthy. It's a big if,
but what if he is healthy, Like I would not
just write him off for his career being over. He's
(31:42):
a physical freak. He's had a lot of time off.
He only played in two games. Again. The Instagram video
of him working out, he looks shredded. I'm thinking about
when I finished recording, going to get some ice cream
or something again social distancing. I will go into seven eleven.
Make sure not touch anybody, but kind of feeding something.
Quarantine has got me eating kind of bad. But claint
cam Newton looks good. I don't hate that idea at all,
(32:04):
But the problem is the Cincinnati Bengals are just never
doing that. I listen to your three Now podcasts all
all the time. It's my first favorite podcast. I'm an
Eagles fan. Eagles have interest in Yannick in doc Way,
and he seems to be interested in them. He definitely
wants out of Jacksonville. Eagles still need help with receiver.
What do you think is the monster trade? Eagles trade
(32:25):
Derek Barnett and their first round pick this year and
next year in exchange for Yannick and Jacksonville's number nine
overall pick this year. Yeah, that's not happening. This allows
the Eagles to get Yannick plus Ceede Lamba or Jerry Judy. Yeah.
I mean that's just that's not that's Derek Barnett. This
is not this deal is already kind of off whack.
I don't think the Eagles and how we are in
a position to mortgage like multiple first round picks for Yannick,
(32:47):
even though he's a really good player. I think he
clearly wants enormous money. If you're the Eagles, I think
you just use your pick and you draft a wide receiver.
You know how he's been in on these guys, but
the one thing he consistently does is he doesn't overpay.
And when he got instead of getting Byron Jones and
(33:08):
given him forty million through two years, he got Darius
Slay for basically thirty million dollars or ten million dollars
cheaper a guy that's had more success, and he didn't
have to trade that much. He traded a third and
a fifth round pick. They need their first round pick,
they need their second round pick. That they need the
assets because they need to get younger. So I don't
think how he and the Eagles are in a position
to do a deal like that now. Next year, if
(33:29):
Yannick becomes a free agent, I think they'd be all
over signing him, and he'd be a perfect scheme fit.
But I think you've seen like how he's good at
putting a price tag like we will do this, but
we won't go once I this is the most I'm
gonna pay. And in fairness, like I don't know if
I ever became a GM, if I would have stayed
on that path, which who knows how long that would
(33:50):
have taken me. If ever, I'm not that good at that,
because when I want something, I want something, and I
think the best business deals comes a lot of times
come with patients and no owing when to walk away.
And it's one thing in business. Sometimes in football, you know,
it's not like you're looking at it like a balance sheet.
(34:10):
You're looking at it like I really just want that player.
So while I didn't love the Rams, I thought they
gave too much for Jalen Ramsey, I do get it.
They just this is the best corner in the league.
We get him in our scheme and we'll just him
and Aaron Donald will dominate. Who knows, I'm helped me
and you might have done that deal, But how you
want If all the O T A s are canceled,
(34:30):
do you think this might be the best preseason? Would
would you think coaches would play starters and get more
reps on offensive defense and work things out that they've
done in O T A S. That's a hell of
a question. I haven't thought that. For the problem will
be if there's no O T A S. There is
(34:50):
going to be a huge premium on guy's discipline. You're
gonna have to work out on your own. And one
problem is a lot of jim ms these guys go
to even in the off season are closed right now. Now,
let's face it, when you're rich and famous, you can
get access to stuff. But I still think it's gonna
be difficult. So the typical regiment and these guys are
(35:12):
used to working out with other players, Like if you're
an NFL player, you're gonna work out with the other
other NFL players. I'm not even talking about the workouts
that you do once the offseason activities happen. I'm talking
about right now, the month leading up to Phase one
and then in the summer. These guys don't just go Baker, right,
but most of the league doesn't just go sit on
a beach and drink margarita. Is They maintain that fitness
(35:34):
so when they get back to training camp, they're ready
to hit the ground running. I think it's gonna be
a challenge. You're gonna you might need to spend the
first couple of weeks just working on personal fitness. You
can't put guys in position if they haven't been able
to work out. Now, we're a long ways away from
knowing what's gonna happen in the summer. But that's a
that's a great question. I think we're just in such
(35:55):
uncharted territory. I think everything would be on the table.
But seeing guys play a ton in preseason, if guys
aren't in shape, I don't think they're starters. I don't
think God, I don't think coaches would risk putting their
better players in harm's way. It doesn't make sense, especially
if you hadn't played football basically all year long. Right
if the if the off season is wiped out, that
(36:17):
means all these guys that met at Max are just
working one on one with a trainer, and who knows,
Like that's not your typical you know workout that these
guys are doing because most of these off season activities
the first month is just weightlifting. And usually if whoever
your fellow team, you usually read it, you're like, oh,
it's they got ninety nine participation percentage. Like most teams,
(36:39):
every guy shows up. That's why when Odell doesn't show
up or Tom Brady hasn't showed up, its story because
most teams, every player shows up. Why wouldn't you. You're
gonna give me up. I'm gonna get an incentive bonus
anyway for working out. I'm gonna lift, no matter what
I say it. All the time. Players that skip O
t A s like I I get you got and
Tom Brady gets a little more ladded two. But it's
(37:00):
like you get, you got like a two bonus and
you're working out with your teammates anyway. It is a
team sport. This isn't golf, isn't tennis. Was a Big
Bucks fan growing up. Do you think that Trent Dilfor
or Brad Johnson are good comparisons for Kirk Cousins. Both
one Super Bowls because they had elite defenses, and they both,
to my memory, were not super talented. I can't speak
(37:22):
on Trent Dilfor. I'm not old enough to kind of
remember how talented he was coming in the league. I mean,
I'm a freendent State guy. He clearly was a freak talent,
big arm He's talked about this on other podcasts. I
don't know if he was mature enough went to the
wrong situation. By the time he started playing for the Buccaneers,
he wasn't that talented. Brad Johnson watching that Super Bowl,
(37:43):
I think Kirk Cousins at this point in time is
better than either one of those two guys in their peak.
I think that's fair. Now, if you put Kirk Cousins
on the O two Bucks or the OH one Ravens,
you could win a Super Bowl for sure. So yeah,
is but is he the right comparison for that? I
(38:03):
don't think he is. I think the right comparison for
him is like it's like a Trent Green, remember when
he was with Kansas City, when Dick Vermeil got there
and they were scoring all those points. The physical characteristics
might be a little different. I just mean a guy
that puts up a lot of stats, but it's not
gonna beat anyone in the playoffs. You could argue Trent
reached probably better player. Krikus is gonna make a lot
(38:25):
of money, though, chrik Us is gonna make a boatload
of money for probably two career playoff wins. Uh does
Emanuel Sanders go into the Saints make perfect sense for
both sides. Seeing what Sean Payton has done with Taysom
Hill this past year makes me go crazy with what
can be done with Sanders added to the mix. Yeah,
(38:47):
he's a man of Sanders is a good player. I
mean the forty Niners, I know for a fact wanted
him back. They just had a price point they just
can't afford. And then once they trade to Forest Buckner
for pick, they're just gonna use pick on a receiver.
So Emmanuel Sanders is a legitimate starter on a super
Bowl team. He was. He came to the Niners and
(39:08):
had a huge in the forty Niners and not making
the Super Bowl last year, or would not have if
Emmanuel doesn't show up now. He is an older player,
he doesn't really have an injury history. He just has
one major injury in the Achilles. But I thought with
the Niners he looked fantastic. So you put him with
Jared Cook, with Kamara, with Taysom Hill, with Michael Thomas,
who I think some people forget had like a hundred
(39:31):
nine catches last year. Like seriously, he had a hundred
forty eight catches he's a monster. So you put him
with Cook and Breeze, Yeah, they should. And he's really
the other thing about a manually's really smart football smart.
So the transition with no offseason, I don't think it'll
be that difficult. Who do you see the Niners taking
at thirteen? If they stay at thirteen, I think they
(39:54):
go a couple of routes. I think receiver is the
thing that makes the most sense. It would be Rugs Judy.
I don't think Ceedee Lamb makes that much sense for
them because they already have debo. Now you could argue,
just get Deebo Sea Bowl, Ceedee Lamb and just start
rocking and rolling with Kittle. But I also think defensive line,
you can never have enough defensive lineman. They just traded Buckner.
(40:15):
If a sweet defensive lineman's there, I wouldn't complain about
drafting one, especially when you also have picked thirty one
and you can take a wide receiver there. So as
the forty show last year they traded or they took
Deebo Samuel in the second round. He was one of
their best players this year. The good thing with the
draft when you have depth at a position and you
have multiple picks high in the first or second round,
(40:37):
you can wait. You know, you don't need to force
a need if you have a better player on your board,
you know, rated like a corner. The Niners need a corner.
Richards two years old and he's going into his last
year of his contract. The opposite corners Emmanuel Moseley, who's
an undrafted free agent. So I don't know enough about
this corner draft. I'm gonna have to text around. But
(40:58):
if there's a corner that justifies thirteenth overall pick, I
think that could easily do that. Big fan of the podcast,
I'm a diehard Browns fan, and I'm curious about they're ineptitude.
Their failures go back to the Learner family, like a
dozen different regimes. Were they all just bad groups? Or
is it really easy as that bad of a note
(41:19):
or is it really just as easy as they have
had a bad ownership. I remember Phil Savage telling me,
who's with the Jets? Now? Who was the GM there?
With the Learners? The Learners were just never around. They
just didn't really care about football. Uh So, I just
think you had much more pressure on the GM. I mean,
Phil will tell you he just hired the wrong coach
Romeo Cornell. You can't win Romeo Cornell. If you hired
(41:42):
the right coach, maybe they win. Uh. This this new
ownership and Jimmy Haslum, I think he's just too big
of a micro manager. You know, you've had the opposite
ends of the spectrum. The Learners just didn't give a
ship at all and had nothing to do with anything,
and then you have Jimmy Haslum that just has his
hands in like the practice squad. There's gotta be a balance,
(42:03):
and I think the best organizations, you know, the one
I have that i've worked for, the Eagles, I think
Jeffrey Lury is a great balance. He knows what's going
on in the draft, but he's not telling you who
to draft. He knows what's going on in free agency,
but he's not telling you who to sign. And I
see it here with the Niners. Like listen Jed the
debacle of Jim Harbaugh. That that was bad and that
was really ugly. But I defend Jed in the sense
(42:25):
of he just kind of stays out of their way,
but whatever they need, he gives them, And I think
that's good owners have that all around the league. Look
at the teams that consistently win. I think Robert Kraft
is a good balance. I think the dude in Minnesota
does a good job. Uh. I think, uh, you know,
Jerry's kind of unique. Clearly, Paul Allen was Seattle whatever
(42:46):
they needed. With Pete Carroll. With John Schnyder, he's around,
or he was, I mean before he passed away, but
he's not. You can't have an owner telling you who
to sign, and I think some of these owners do that.
The Steelers, I mean, actually most of the ownership in
the NFL is pretty high level. Big Falcons fan. With
all the attention Tampa's getting, and it is justified, but
(43:07):
everyone's saying it's a two team race between them and
the Saints. My question, do you think the Falcons can
make it a three team race or even with Carolina,
the NFC South could be far deeper. Yeah, I don't
think Caroline is gonna be very good. My question on
the Falcons is, let's see, they trying to think of
some of their moves. So they they let Austin Hooper
walk and they get Hayden Hurst, so maybe that becomes
(43:30):
a wash. I mean, Austin Hooper is probably better player.
They still got Julio, they still got Calvin Ridley, they
got Maddie Ice, they signed Todd Gurley, which who knows.
Their defense was much better in the second half and
for the most part last year they scored points early
in the season. It was they couldn't stop anybody because
their defense was atrocious. They do have talent on the team. Uh,
just thinking of the roster. They don't have a great
(43:51):
pass rusher. They do have team speed in their secondary.
Didn't they released Esmond true font Uh the middle linebacker
they've had for a while. Dion Jones a good player. Yeah,
I mean I would say Tampa I have more faith.
I think Bruce Arians a better coach than dan Quinn.
That to me is a huge element. Let's even say
Maddie Ice and Matt and Tom Brady in two thousand
twenty are the same player. I just I have more
(44:13):
faith in Bruce Arians than I do dan Quinn. That
being said, like dan Quinn's had successful teams, had playoff teams.
So yeah, I don't think we can just discount the
Falcons as being some you know, slap team next year,
like a six seven win team. I think if it
all goes right, they could win nine ten games. Obviously
need a good draft. I've been listening to your podcast
(44:34):
since the first time it showed up on the Herd Feed.
I wish you were the talent that replaces Coward when
he was on vacation back a few months ago. I
remember you mentioned you growing up and followed the teams
you could watch. I was born in Puerto Rico. I
started to follow sports in the late seventies. The game
of the week always was the Yankees and cable TV
the Boston feed. So I became a Yankees, Boston Celtics
and the San Fransco forty Niners fans. Those are my teams.
(44:57):
Uh So now on TV all I had is the
New York market. Funny, now I'm a Yankees, Nicks, and
New York Giants fan. To finish, I agree with you
that kids follow players and not teams. So this was
just a nice little note. I appreciate it. Yeah, I
do think it depends where you live. If you live
in certainly, if you grow up in New York, you're
(45:18):
gonna grow up for the New York teams. If you
grew up in the Bay Area, l A, You're gonna
be a Dodger Laker fan or a Niner Warrior fan.
To me, if you grew up in certain areas that
like North Dakota, you might just gravitate to who's winning,
you know, kids basketball. I think it's a little more national.
I mean, I grew up, I was born in eighty four.
A lot of people are getting on me because they
(45:39):
sell Parcels one with the same quarterback twice. People like
Jeff Hussteller. He he Phil Sims got hurt. It's like, okay, guys,
I'm sorry. Some of my eighties history is a little
hit or miss. I feel confident talking anything nineties four,
so I you know, I try to expand. I'm not
Belichick historian here, but you're right, he won with two quarterbacks.
You know, I'm thirty five, not sixty. My bad. I
(46:02):
got a lot of people on me. Middlef Parcels won
with two different quarterbacks. Your theory is wrong. Like, okay,
I get it. Big fan cal Paul Alum, I like it.
Sacramento Guy Rockland also a huge Eagles fan. I love
the interview with Howie. I was curious if you think
realistically going to take in the first round of the draft.
I know The most early mocks have the Eagles taken
Henry Ruggs, but after his forty at the combine, I'm
(46:24):
sure he won't be available. I got a quick hot
take Henry Ruggs goes in the top ten. Do you
think the Eagles will take the next best wide receiver
Justine Jefferson or best player available. Most mocks are showing Jefferson,
but a situation reminds me a lot of taking Nelson,
nagailor late in the first Yes, I think Jefferson is
a better player than Nelson, but I don't like the
idea of taking a fourth best wide receiver that early
when the draft is so deep at wide receiver. Maybe
(46:46):
they can get a middle linebacker, O line, D line.
What are your thoughts? Yeah, I think you can never
with them. Linebacker has to be an option. Maybe Kenneth
Murray from Oklahoma. They need more team speeded linebacker. They
have a million defensive line right MILLI Malik Jackson's coming back.
They just signed the guy from Pittsburgh Fletcher still there.
They have Derek Barnett their offensive line. They drafted the
(47:08):
kid from Washington State last year's taken over for Jason Peters.
I don't necessarily agree with taking the fourth best wide
receiver in a draft, even if it's a deep wide
receiver draft, because if if it's a good wide receiver draft,
think about the draft it was Mike Evans draft. It
was like Mike Evans, Brandon Cooks, Odell Beckham Jr. I
(47:30):
think DeAndre Hopkins. That might have been the year before.
But they were like four or five really good wide
receivers in that draft, and the fourth guy like, that's fine.
Like if the fourth guy is good, the fourth guy
is good, and sometimes on your board, the fourth wide
receiver off the board is the second guy off your board.
But I would I would say historically the Eagles have
(47:52):
never taken a middle linebacker that high UH defensive line,
offensive line. They always believe in that, and wide receiver
they've had Jeremy Mack Whinn Nelson didn't was not that great,
Deshaun was an early second round pick. I just and
you asked, also, do you think there's any chance for
Joannick I I don't really think that's an option. We
(48:12):
got a lot of questions here, Jeez, Louise, Okay, this
might be the last one. We're almost a fifty minutes,
love the pod and for perfectly time to f bombs,
keeping me saying, while being stuck in the firehouse, with
the Niners being so close to winning at all, why
not just keep Buckner and tag and trade him next year.
I know they got great value for him and would
probably get less next year, but with all the injuries
we had, were eight minutes away from number six, why
(48:35):
not just let it roll short window we do have,
especially with the projected cap going up. Also, what are
your thoughts on the Niners bringing in Sue saw it
against the run um Well, Sue, some of these are
old Sue obviously resigned with Tampa. I think the thing
is anytime you get a player on any on any
one of your teams, and I think Belichick's had a
(48:55):
good example of this, and you get to a position
you're like and Brandon Cook's probably bad because ample because
he traded him for a first round pick, But you
get a guy the Bucker was beloved, and he's a
really really good player. To me, he's like a B
plus a minus player. He's not an A A plus.
If Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald are a plus is
it's like Fletcher Cox's nay, he in his peak. Maybe
(49:18):
Fletcher's not anymore. He's not on that level. Chris Jones
probably an A A minus. He's a tick below Chris Jones.
But if you go, you know, I don't feel comfortable
giving this guy huge money and someone offers you pick thirteen,
I'm with you if the best option you could have
got was like pick eight, because you're like, well, I'm
not gonna get a player as good as the Force Buck.
(49:39):
But if I get picked thirteen in a draft that's
freaking loaded and three quarterbacks are gonna go on the
top ten, Meaning if I'm at thirteen, I'm gonna get
the tenth best non quarterback, and if Jordan Loves somehow
goes in that area, I might get the ninth best
non quarterback. I Also, you can always trade back off
thirteam to like twenty, to gain like multiple second round picks.
It gives you so many is they didn't have any picks,
(50:01):
and one thing is gonna need is some cheap labor
because next year they're gonna have to pay Fred Warner,
probably extend Richard Sherman. Uh, they just paid Eric Armstead.
They gotta pay George Kittle. They're gonna need to buy
a couple of players in free agency. They already don't
have that much cap space. I I think it was
as simple as they just sometimes what did uh Don
(50:22):
Corleone say, once upon our Vito corleons once something. I'm
gonna make him an offer he can't refuse. You get it.
You get offered the thirteenth pick, Like, how many non
quarterbacks would you not trade for the pick? Kittle? Uh,
Michael Thomas, Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack. You start going around
(50:43):
the league non quarterbacks, it's a short list, you know.
If you told me trying to think of a good
player and a good team. Let's think of a team
in the in the a f C Championship. Who's the
Titans best player? You trade Derrick Henry in a heartbeat
for pick thirteam? Uh? The Chief EEFs obviously wouldn't a
non quarterback. They trade Kelsey pick at this point in
(51:07):
time and Kelsey is years old. You can turn that now.
Maybe just because they're in this window to try to
win some Super Bowls. The Packers would they trade DeVante
fort pick? Probably not any other players? Aius gone for
pick and I love Zadarius Smith. But it's just the
thirteenth pick is a very very powerful pick, and I
(51:29):
think it would just make any team in the league
for basically any one of their non quarterbacks beside maybe
players in the league that would make you think about it.
Appreciate everyone listening. Stay safe, stay inside, stay quarantined. Flatten
the curve so we get back to life and keep
your head up, enjoy life, enjoy the weekend, and uh
(51:50):
stay safe. God bless
Host
John Middlekauff
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Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.