First, Doug looks at the uncertain hoops future for Bronny James as he recovers after suffering cardiac arrest, and looks at what a potentially stacked post-realignment Big 12 on the hoops side.
Then, he’s joined by NYU Head Coach Dave Klatsky to discuss his hoops background growing up in New Jersey, why he chose to play college ball at Penn, the eye opening jump from HS to DI, the keys to Penn Coach Fran Dunphy’s coaching philosophy, and the experience of playing at the legendary Palestra, and the disappointment of not winning an NCAA tourney game in 3 appearances.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, want to welcome in. I'm Doug Godi. This is
all ball and Man, we got a great guest for
you on this episode, actually this two part episode. David
Klaski joins with me. He's the head coach at NYU,
and I think you'll be impressed by his journey and
also the people who have affected him along the way
(00:28):
and what it's like to finally be a head coach
and have your own team, which he's been able to
do at NYU, one of the prestigious not just universities,
but also programs in Division II basketball. After being an
assistant most recently at Colgate University and then of course
he spent time in the private sector. All those pen
(00:50):
guys with their award and degrees and whatnot. A couple
of quick things though, in regards to basketball, since we
are in the offseason and many of these teams are
getting ready to take their overseas trips, you also had
the Bronnie James incident. Let's start with Bronnie. You know,
as of the time of this recording, nobody knows, you know,
(01:10):
we've seen Bronnie playing the piano. His dad took him
to dinner. Thankfully, he's not hospitalized. Looks all good, but
you know, those of us, especially in Los Angeles, you
grew up here, you remember, and Gathers right, and Gathers
went from me passed out when they played U see
Santa Barbara, and then he missed some games, then got medication,
(01:34):
then was a great player, and then of course tragically died.
Now I'm not like, and if anybody takes us like
I'm painting that as a picture, I have no idea,
nor is it really my business what Bronnie james medical
condition actually is that led to his heart stopping and
having to be having a cardiac arrest. I can only
tell you though that while USC had a player last
(01:55):
year that came back and played, Bronni is different because
one we don't know the medical can do if it's
the same or different too. I mean, like, I love basketball.
I'm sure he loves basketball, but can we be honest
he does not need to play basketball to have an
incredible life, right. And also we're like, do you think
he's going to get insured? Has anybody asked themselves that, like, oh, yeah, yeah,
(02:17):
you can. Like getting cleared is a really hard hurdle,
you know, and hopefully it is a very minor some
sort of medical condition they feel like they can manage
with medication. But I mean, look, it's hard enough to
get cleared when you're, like most of us, you don't
come from much anything. When your dad's a billionaire and
the most famous basketball player playing in the world, it
(02:41):
seems like it's going to be hard to get him cleared.
And then you know, you get people saying, well, you know,
you can get a defibrillator, and yes, there have been
players come back and play with a defibrillator, but all
of these steps make it much much more difficult for
it comeback. Let's just I mean, all you can do
is go like, man, I'm so happy he's okay, and
wait to see. But I do think that while coming
(03:02):
back and playing is a possibility, I think there's an
equal or greater possibility he never plays basketball again. And honestly,
like people will will tell you, I've been a harsh
critic of Ronnie James, I haven't. It's not about Bronnie.
It's about the way in which he's been rated or reviewed.
You know, his yelp is not really accurate for how
(03:26):
he has played or how he's actually evaluated by people
who evaluate it feels like it's a product of a one.
You see a little bit of Lebron and I'm in two.
There are people that want to curry favor with with Lebron.
So the critique is not of Bronnie. I mean you
obviously a critique is game like you do anybody, but
it's more a critique of again, how people talk about
(03:48):
all of those things. As far as conference realignment, Like,
we're on the brink here. Obviously, the Big Twelve feeling
like it's going to expand, and if it expands to
have Arizona in the Big twelve, man, I mean you
want to talk about a murderer's row Arizona, Kansas, Houston.
(04:10):
I think Cincinnati is going to be very very good.
There's the outside possibility of a Yukon joining the league. Again,
let's leave that as an outside possibility. I think that's
a bit of a stretch because the stronger likelihood is
that if the Big Twelve adds more teams, they don't
go east, they go west, And if they leave spots open,
they're not leaving them open for Yukon. It would be
(04:32):
leaving them open for the possibility of like an acc
implosion and the ACC implosion takes place, you know, they'll
go after Virginia Tech to partner with West Virginia. They'll
go after Florida State, you know, to marry them with
Central Florida. I think there's some just some big dogs
there in the ACC that you got to take a
(04:52):
swing at before you go back and settle at Yukon.
And I think Yukon fans know, I love the program,
the fact that you know, they put a ton of
money into baseball. Obviously, basketball is coming off a national championship.
Women's basketball should be back with pageback playing for the
women's team. But just football is not close to being
at that level, and there's the feeling from people in
(05:15):
the league that it'll never be at that level, and
it you know, it's at like it's an anchor. You know,
you don't want an anchor bringing down the football league.
My thought would be, hey, rising tide lifts all ships,
and yeah, maybe that's down in terms of football, but
you know, you have plenty of other opportunities to grow football.
(05:38):
Like I think Arizona State is a would be a
huge win. Arizona State, to me, reminds me kind of
a big ten school. You know, it's in a major
city and a growing city. Unlike some of those Midwest cities.
This is one of the growing metropolis in the United States.
And they you know, they have over one hundred thousand
students on any given year. And the other part to
the Arizona schools, which should not be under sold, should
(06:01):
not be underrated. I think Florida schools have a little
bit of this, but really Arizona schools is every one
of the athletic directors I've talked to said, you know,
we want to be in Arizona, not just because they're
starting to get players in Arizona and it start to
become part of the recruiting conversation. And you know, Phoenix
is a growing market. It also leaks into southern California.
(06:21):
But we have a lums in Arizona. We have a
lums in Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe, you know who retired. They're
powerful lums that retired want to play golf and then
want to donate to their school and now they can
see their school play on a yearly basis right there
in town. So I think Yukon's a bit of a stretch.
I think Arizona has been the most open about wanting
(06:41):
to reach out to be in the league. But I
do think that partnering with Arizona would probably be the
smartest thing and how that affects college basketball. You know,
if you've been paying attention, the state of Arizona, you
know is really really expanding in terms of the number
of prep schools and all of the reach of recruiting
is starting to reach there. You know, over time, Elite
(07:05):
is moving and they're going to have a league of
prep schools right there in Phoenix in the valley as well.
So I think it's a recruiting win. I think it's
a it's an expansion win. And obviously, you know, once
you can get Colorado, that begins the you know Power
five moving to Power five, that changed the dynamic. The
one thing I don't like for Colorado is that without
(07:27):
a Southern California school, that's going to change their recruiting.
And maybe those thoughts are from the past, right, I mean,
like players now will go to places they would never
go to before because it's about nil, not where you
want to play and where you want to stay. But
you know, Spencer Dinwid, he's an LA guy. You know,
(07:48):
and Colorado with their once they got in the pack twelve.
The idea is, we want to we want to get
California kids, California football kids, California basketball kids. Bring them
out to Boulder, you know, Boulders a great spot, very chill.
You know. That changed the dynamic, and I it'll be
interesting to see if the Big Ten can benefit recruiting
(08:08):
wise from getting into southern California, especially considering how all
in on sports the Big Ten is in comparison to
what's remaining in the Pac Ten. So all right, let's
we got some NBA stuff to get to. We'll get
to that in the next pod. I got a chance
to say down with Dave Klasky. He's the head coach
of NYU. Here's his journey Your first memories of basketball aware.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Oh wow, we're going way back. Yeah, I think I
was so My brother was in second grade, which means
I was about four or five, and I remember my
dad throwing me in his first and second grade rec
basketball game, being three years younger and just playing as
(08:56):
hard as I could, Like, I remember the little gym,
village school, the eight foot rims. But uh, that's probably
my first memory of playing the game that I can
like picture, So going back.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
In Greenwich Village, that is it Greenwich Village?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
No, No village school in Homedewn, New Jersey, which is
where I grew up. So random school, random elementary school
in New Jersey that no one except if you're from
home Dell would know about. But that's uh, that's what
came in my mind when you threw that question out there.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
When did you decide like basketball was your jam? And
I say that because you know, specialization starts at a
younger age. Now when was it for you? They like,
this is what I like doing?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Probably not until I was twelve or thirteen. I grew
up playing every sport, but uh, I started to narrow down,
Like I gave up baseball in second or third grade.
I played soccer till eighth grade, but I was I
was pretty good at tennis, so I kind of thought
that would be my But the more life went on,
(10:04):
I just really enjoyed basketball more. So I just took
a turn and just started playing basketbamore. I never thought
I'd played Division one basketball until I was probably a
junior in high school and started to get recruited. But
I knew tennis, I could be good. I just didn't
enjoy the practice. I didn't enjoy private lessons of just
hitting one hundred four hands down the line, hundred four
(10:26):
hands cross court, you know, back so but basketball, even practice,
I just love competing and just the movements of basketball.
So I kind of navigate. Ended up going that way,
And I would say probably twelve or thirteen was when
I really locked in on basketball. I don't want to
say basketball only because I still played tennis all through
high school, but that was when it got serious. I
(10:48):
would say, who's your high school coach, Tom Stead?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
What was he like?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
He's great. I'm still very close to him today. Him
and the assistant, Tom Pushy. Both of those guys their
legends in their own right. Just to both those guys,
they fostered a program of being demanding. But also we
had a great time, like great culture. We were very
successful in high school. We won two state championships at
(11:17):
Little Home Deel High School, which has never been done.
And those guys are a big part. We're still close today.
I'm sure I'll now make them watch this and they'll
get a kick out of seeing their their names mentioned.
But both were great influences on me, both on and
off the court. So still really grateful that I got
a chance to play for them.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
What was his style like as a coach, how'd you
guys play?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
We played pretty free before you were playing free. So
we had like a motion based offense where there's a
lot of passing, cutting and screening, basically positionless basketball. And
you know, I graduated high school and let's say ninety nine,
so this was way before it's time. We were firing threes,
way before everybody knew you could shoot threes, and they
(12:04):
were more valuable. So we had, you know, again, small
small town in Jersey, I was the only Division one player,
and then we had probably four really good Division three
players alongside of me that were just tough as nails.
We were undersized and just got a lot out of
what we were, but it was it was a fun time.
(12:24):
He was a demanding coach, but also he was he
was We were able to be ourselves and express ourselves
and have a good time while we were winning.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
What was your recruiting process, Like, all.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Right, we're going way back here. I like it. So
I was. I played on a really good AU team
called the Central Jersey Hawks, all throughout my life, and
by the time we were sophomores in high school, it
started to become clear we were we were pretty good.
We made the national Championship, which back then there was
the Nationals. I'm sure you remember this. Uh, there wasn't
(12:59):
a hundred different tournaments. It was won the States. He
went to Nationals and that was where everybody, all the
best teams were. So we made the finals my sophomore
in junior season, we had guys and I'm going to
throw some names up, but I'm sure not many people
can remember these guys, But like Taj Holden played at
Maryland showan Exani played at Rutgers, Andrew Toole, who people
should still be familiar with in the basketball world. Head
(13:22):
coach of Robert Morris played at Elon and then transferred
to penm with me. A guy named Chris Adams played
at Elon, and then we had some stints of Dante
Jones playing with us a year and Rick Appadaca from
Hofstra and he played professionally in Puerto Rico for a
long time, so we knew we had a good team.
And I think for me, probably at the end of
(13:43):
my sophomore year, I started getting some calls, a lot
of ivs, some lower level division ones, it's some high
level division threes. And again I didn't think I was
good enough. I thought it was too small, you know,
to this, to that. But as the seasons went on
and I started getting real recruitment from the Penn's and
(14:03):
the Harvard's and the Yales, I realized that I may
be able to play Division one basketball. So the Penn coaches,
in particular Frand Dumpy and Steve Donna Whue is now
the head coach of Penn, did a really good job
of just being everywhere, like coach Donahue and coach Don
for had a ton of my games. I really liked
the fact that Penn had a tremendous business school. I
(14:25):
had a feeling I was going to get into some
type of finance or business after I was done playing.
So they just did a really good job. I think
I ended up committing before my senior year, so I
was done by probably September or August of September of
going into my senior year locked and loaded for Penn.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
How go with your grades? I mean, because pretty good,
pretty good? I was.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I was probably in on own at that time. Now
now now not so much. Which has harder to is
to get into these academic schools. But I was, I
was like almost all a's taking aps. I don't remember.
I was somewhere around four point I was. I got
a lot of a's and some d's in there. And
(15:12):
then I'm a math guy, so I did really well
in the in the math part of the s A
T and and uh, I was able to find my
way into.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Pen Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
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Speaker 1 (15:34):
Where's that? Where does the academic did you? Was it
a strong push from home, like because it's interesting, you know,
raising kids now as opposed to raising kids then. And
you know, I, uh, I come from a Jewish family
that we There wasn't really a discussion over hey this
(15:56):
teacher is not nice or I don't understand. This was
the get good grades? What if I don't? There is
no don't you like you get good grades? Right? And uh,
my kid's mom she she was a self starter, so
she didn't she was the first one to go to
college in her family. So she's not as much of
(16:18):
a pusher. Right for you, you achieve incredible things academically.
Where's that come from?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
My parents? I think probably similar households. It was academics
come first, and if you have to miss practice, that's
I mean, that was always a threat. I never actually
missed practice, but plenty of times my dad and my
mom would be like, yeah, if you don't do your
work or you don't like do your best, you're you're
not going to practice, Like that's all that matters. You're
not going to be professional. I mean, growing up, I
(16:46):
didn't think I would even play at the level I did,
like I said, So it was it was really just
how our house was orchestrated.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
My older brother went to Penn, I went to Penn,
and my younger sister went to Columbia. So it was,
you know, clearly part of what we were taught and
thought about growing up, but it wasn't in a way.
You know, I've been coaching now at high academic schools
for a little over fifteen years, and you come across
all different types of families, right, You come across the
kids that are just completely pushed by their parents, and
(17:17):
they get free and it's like downhill, right because they
were never self motivated. But I really think about this
and talk about this a lot with people. Somehow my parents,
and maybe it was my parents and my older brother,
they were able to do it in a way that
we were self motivated. Like I wasn't doing it for them,
(17:38):
I was doing it for me. I just wanted to
be better than everybody at school. That was kind of
the reality. I was very competitive. I wanted to be
whatever I did, I wanted to be better than people,
and that included getting to higher math score. That getting
a higher math score. So it is a tricky thing.
I don't know as a parent now, same thing I'm
going through it, Like, all right, how can we motivate
them to want them to be the best they can
(18:00):
be without shoving it down their throats where you know,
as soon as they're old enough, it's gonna they're gonna
almost rebel and do the opposite. So it's the daily fight.
I got little kids now, so I'm in it. But
I think about it all the time. My mom and
dad were able to foster that within us, and can
we do that to them in this generation which is
(18:21):
completely different.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
It is a very different generation. So you show the
Penn how many because and people know like IVY leagues
have jbs, right there was you know, I mean it's
more how many kids they get in than some sort
of number. So how many were in your recruiting class?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
With six in our recruiting class, big class, really good class.
So the two most high profile guys guy named Ugano
and que and Coco Archibong, We're just not IVY League
players at the time they were they were awesome. And
then myself and a guy named Andrew Coates, and another
(19:01):
Dwayne King, then Harold Bailey, so the four of us
and even Dwayne King. Dwayne King was as a recruit
not really an I BELIEVEUE recruit at the time. He
was a little hi, more high profile. But we had
six big class. But like you said, Penn had a
full varsity team and a full JV team. But those
six guys were recruited for varsity only, and then there
(19:21):
might have been one or two that ended up playing JV.
I don't even remember who else was in our class
that played JV. I don't know if there were any,
but it's that's common at ivutes.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So for practice is JB at practice and they're like.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
No, it was. It's a separate entity. Now what pended
back in the day is of the JV guys. They
would get called up for one home game so they
could play.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Now, they didn't always get in, but if we were
up a lot, they'd get in, and it was one
of the cooler moments for them to get in. The
crowd would go nuts, you know, they would they would
dress for one game and they would just would be
rooting for blowouts so they could get in.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Awesome. What do you remember about your friend? Like, I
remember distinctly, I remember pick a ball leading up to
like when I was at Notre Dame, I remember conditioning.
I remember my first practice as well. But what's it
like like a let's say a fall at Penn. You
guys are very good at the time, right, dumf has
(20:21):
it rolling? What is like okay? At a high major school?
I mean I remember Oklahoma State and Notre Dame. Like
Oklham State, for example, we'd run at six in the morning,
then we'd all go have most of us have breakfast together,
go to class whatever in the afternoon. Lift, you play
right and you do that and then you have individual
(20:43):
workouts on other days, like it's a full week of stuff.
And then you know, because you only have we only
have one team and you have like twelve guys and
you have a couple of walk ons, the pickup ball
devolves after like like first week back, everybody's super excited,
new guys kind of you know, trying to everybody's trying
(21:03):
to establish who they are, what they improved on, or
who the new guys are whatever. But then like you
can only play against the same guys so many times
before it just gets fun day. What's it like a penn.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I don't remember exactly that detail. I'm very impressed. I
do remember some of the memories and thoughts that I
had freshman year, and you know, I'll start with just
you come, like you said, you come as a freshman
and there wasn't all the social media, so you didn't
really know that much about everybody. So I remember like
(21:34):
playing pick up those were like the first memories and
just being like I am getting my ask. These guys
are stronger, they're tougher, My moves aren't working, and I
was just like, man, this is hard. And then I
do remember our first like our four man workouts. You
couldn't do full team then, but the four man workouts
(21:55):
being like a little bit of a little bit of
skill work. But then Dump, if you've ever played for Dump,
you know he just wanted he just like that just compete,
like just compete, so we would compete. So I got
through all those and again was ready for the season
to start. And then I remember my first practice and
like he had been involved in the four man workouts,
but he basically just watched and the assistants ran the show.
(22:18):
And then day one I remember he just like it's
Dump like and he's he's he's a politician. He's the
greatest guy ever off the court and on the court.
But I didn't know how intense it was gonna be
my first practice because he recruits you and he's mild
mannered and he speaks softly and slowly with a lot
(22:38):
of substance. And then I get in the first practice
and he's screaming at guys. I'm like, oh my god,
this is this is what college basketball is. This is
this is crazy, Like who is this guy yelling at me?
In day one? And I just remember the game moving
so fast. I had six turnovers in practice, which like
for my game. I ended up leading this the league
(23:00):
and it's just a turnover that. I wasn't a turnover guy.
But I just remember like it was way too hard
for me and Coach Donna you pulled me aside after
the Privy like that's not who you are, Like just
slow down. And now as a coach, I always give
that advice. I'm like, look, your first day or your
first week, it's gonna seem like the game is moving
so fast. It's okay because the game will slow down
(23:22):
even after one week, but especially as you keep playing
in this system and against the same guys. But I
just remember being like, oh my god, this is this
is really hard. What am I getting myself into.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's interesting because it was probably about three weeks in
my first year Notre Dame and another PENG guy, Frean
McCaffrey that's a recruited me to Notre Dames, and I
was just getting my ass kicked. Now. Part of it
was one we didn't really play a style that was conducive,
and our five on five stuff in practice with John
(23:56):
McCleod was like, put twenty six seconds in the clock
and we'll play in half court basketball, because you know,
back then it was a what a thirty five second child, right,
And and I mean we're running like a motion offense.
And you know my chool program same thing. I was
coached by Andy Ground. He went onto windnes State championships
(24:16):
in junior college as well. He's a very good coach.
And so you think my dad was a college coach.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You think you.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Practice at a level of intensity and then you have
no idea. Plus the bodies are so much bigger, you know,
you can't really avoid being screened nearly as well. And again,
like you said, this is the old motion offense days,
and you're just you think you're guardinger guy. Then boom
boom boom. And the guy that I was brought into
like you're going to beat him out, don't worry about it.
He is kicking add more whites to the name, and
(24:44):
he is kicking my like on a daily basis. And
at Notre Dame we had the Blue was the first team,
that Gold was the second team. And I used to
come in every day and my jersey was gold enough.
I would I made up a song on the gold again.
Just came up to play some defense with my friends.
I can't wait to get on the gold again right
like I was. I was, so I was like second team.
(25:06):
Finally I went into Franny and I was like, Franny,
you got to send me home. I suck. I'm just good,
Like I'm sorry. I know you guys thought I was good,
but I clearly can't beat that at more White and
I was supposed to be and he's just kicking my ass.
So I remember, I remember, but but then I remember
(25:27):
a turning once games started. But Penn's so different. Right,
as good as you guys are, you're not playing guarantee
games where you can thump somebody earl year. So what
was as a freshman, what was your early experience like
when games started?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So actually this is again because I was getting my
butt kicked every day by the seniors and the older guys.
Our opening game was against Kentucky out Rup, so it
wasn't like, uh, you know, you walk in, like you said,
a guarantee game or a Division three game. We started
playing against Jamal mcglore. I think Tayshaun Prince might have
(26:04):
been on that team. Saul Smith was my matchup though.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So if you thought you thought that first practice was
something you walk out in the Big Blue Nation and
that was when they had it rolling.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Oh they were rolling, they were rolling, and but we
were good, like we had We had a really good
team returning. They just won the Ivy's and we brought
in this like awesome freshman class, so we battled like
I think we might have been winning at halftime. But
I actually my memory is the opposite because like Mike
Jordan at the time, he was a senior and he
(26:35):
was IVY League Player of the Year for one or
two years and just like a dog, like one of
the best defensive players will have to play against, played
professionally for thirteen years. So he was guarding me every
day in practice. And I got to the game and
it was Saul Smith and like, this is easy. I
don't know m j on me anymore. This is ah,
this is a cake walk. So I actually had like
a little bit different experience. Now, the difference was you
(26:59):
get by him and Jamal mcglore is standing in the
back line, you know, and you're not you're not getting
an shots off. But but that that was a really
fun experience to play at Kentucky and they ended up
beating us by probably ten ten points or so or
I don't even remember how much. But we were in
the game and it was really the competitive and I
I got in, which again I was shocked about. But
(27:20):
I ended up having a very big role that year.
And you know, like you said, once games came around,
then all those things that you're good at that lead
to winning that might not show up in practice start
to show up, like taking care of the ball and
taking good shots and guarding and getting loose balls, like
all those things, which is what I did as a
(27:40):
fifth option on that team was extremely valuable. So I
found a way to get on the court early.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
What was dump like in games.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Dump in games, the intensity was still the same, and
I like, he's now a little bit different of a
coach in this area. He's one of the small artist
guys will ever meet, just in terms of how he thinks.
But uh, he was intense. And you know his best
line that I remember is, you know, if you started
the game poorly, he'd just looked at you and be like,
(28:12):
I wish you would have let me know that you
weren't ready to go, then I would have started somebody else.
And you're like, I thought I was ready, And maybe
not in that tone. Maybe it was a little bit
louder and aggressive as.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Any kid, by the way, ever gone like a coach,
I'm not ready to start start, Jimmy. Things that don't
ever happen, like that that that that adm where the
ball goes out of bounds and it's off the kid
and he turns to the raft and he's like, no,
it was off me. Things that just don't happen, Like
(28:48):
I know they should happen, but they just don't.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
No, he was he was great. I mean he he
was a guy that just got the most out of you.
You played so hard or you didn't play. So that
was that carried over to games, and I think that
was what he did. He got the most out of
his teams and his players.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
How how because like I felt like that was the
magic to coach Suddon was that, you know, I mean
we didn't run anything super special. We had really good players.
I mean we had good, good players and a lot
(29:32):
of them we were we had transfers before transfers really
in vogue, right, But if you tried to find like
what's the secret sauce, it's like you just played way
harder than you ever thought possible, you know, And that
was really it, Like hard and tough and like that's it.
And I do think there's like a that's that's the
(29:55):
secret sauce, especially the college game, like that that's the
secret sauce. Right, Yeah, you got to not turn the
back a ball over. There's a tough to sellment to that,
but there's also a skill element to it. You know,
you got to take good shots, you got to Coaches
got to be demanding to a point, right, and some
of that has evolved and changed, but getting you guys
to play just hard. And I've heard coaches say like, well,
(30:17):
you don't coach effort, Like I frankly that's bullshit, Like
you may not coach it, but you demand it, right.
And so his way, it was just an every day
in practice sort of thing where one there's a little
bit of fear of God in him and I don't
know if dump had this right, where you just I
don't know why, you're just scared to death of the
(30:38):
old man. And then and then you recruit competitive kids
right where they're all out there, you know, we're all
fighting after one bone. And then there's the constant demands
in practice of kind of everybody of just hey, let's
get after it. Let's like harder, harder, play hard, play harder,
play hardists, right, But that was his style. How did
(31:00):
dump get you guys to play at that level in
terms of energy wise?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Very similar to what you just said. I think again,
different errors. And I'd be curious to go to one
of his practices now I went a couple of years ago.
But uh, the fear of the fear of God, of knowing.
You know, he was intense and you wanted to please him.
And it wasn't like it is today. Like he said
some things that that I never took his offensive. It
(31:29):
was like, all right, I got to do better, and
and he had that way of doing that. I use
this example a lot. His way of motivating was he
never demeaned you. He never you know, made you feel
like you were two feet tall. But he like had
this way of driving you to be the best you
could be. And a specific example is like you'd be
(31:50):
on defense and practice and and somebody would get the
ball and they'd go middle on you. We didn't give
up middle at the time.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
And he'd like, hold on, hold on, like David, you
think Dwayne King can get middle on you? See, I
think higher of you than you do, because there's no
way Dwayne King can get middle on you.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
But you clearly don't think as high as I do
about yourself. No chance that happens again. And like you're like, yeah,
how the heck did Dwayne just get middle on me?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
He's not.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
That's not happening again, you know. Like so it was
one of those things where he'd call you out, but
it wasn't in a way that made you It was
it was like making you feel most more so.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
That was that was that was that he said. That
wasn't I've told this story before. It was like our
first day of practice and we would do one on
one contain on the side, right. We did a series
of defensive breakdown drills every day, one on one contained
uh into you know, drive to the seal, which was
the baseline help and then rotate and then we worked
(32:50):
on post double and that stuff. Anyway, so we're playing
one on one contained on the side and you know,
you got to get a stop to get the ball
then for your playoffs, and uh, somebody been scoring. I
think Joe Atkins are too guard. He's been scoring on guys.
So I get out there and I a hold up, coach.
We forced in middle, were forcing baseline? What do you mean?
(33:13):
I go, well, which way are we making him?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Go?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Like guard your man? Like yeah, but I get a coach,
but like there's gonna be help four other guys in
the game. Like where we send. It was like you
guard your man or you come help me coach? Like
that was it? You guard man or you come help
me coach like a coach like like a guard your
(33:36):
man and uh so you know then the guy's place.
I like, yeah, we're for some baseline, we got help,
but like don't ask him that. And that was that
was that was his way, you know, and he would
just he would just it was just very very matter
of fact in a very stern kind of Southern way,
was like, you can't guard your man, just help me coach.
(33:56):
You a college man can't make that open shot? Call
help coach? Like that was that was That was his
way of saying, you're gonna you're gonna sit on the bench.
Come hop? How good was that team?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Pretty good? I'm thinking so that was my freshman year.
I think Ken Palmer goes back that far. I want
to say we were like in the like forty to
seventy range, which was really good. We ended up like
twenty one and seven or twenty one and eight or
something like that, and then lost in the first round
to Illinois. Illinois I think a four to thirteen matchup,
(34:35):
or maybe it was a five twelve. But we had
a really good team, and I think we all were
hoping we could knock somebody off in the tournament, but
it just didn't didn't work out for us.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
The IVY League then very different, right. It was basically
you guys and Princeton because this was before Donahue goes
to Cornell and got them going.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Right, Dartmouth really hasn't been competitive Browns, not really. They're
better now than they've been, but they've never been at
the top of league. And Harvard, of course is before
Tommy and they were never really competing. It was kind
of a two horse race right before yalees Yale's good. Now, right,
(35:19):
What was the IVY League like in terms of it's
got the unique Friday Saturday schedule? Right, there's all these
unique places. You're playing at the Polester, which is like
a palace. Oh, let me just ask you that first
double triple header at the Plestro, What do you remember?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
There's nothing like the Polestra. So I remember on my
recruiting trip going to watch Kansas versus pad Right and
Jeff Boshee and I think Rayful France might have been
on that team, and just being like, holy, this is
this is ninety eight, ninety eight ninety Okay?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
So ninety eight was ninety seven ninety eight? Was you
went in thet seven ninety eight?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I played? It must have been ninety eight ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Okay, So yeah, that team had not Rafe had that's
the guy Kenny Gregory. Yeah, uh, Kenny Gregory.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
Did a young start. I think who is Nick Bradford?
That Teamford Gooden was until the next year. Gooden was
until I played them the next The next year had
three stars. Next year had had Collis and Heinrich and
good Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I remember we played.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
We smacked the ship, We smacked the ship up twice.
But it was only it was only because they were young.
We were like old man and we kicked the ship
out of the We've beat my thirty three and nineteen
good but but ninety all on this. I love this
challenge to it.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
So what was there? Because they beat us that year,
they were the Ryan.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
Robertson, Ryan Robertson, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Ryan Robertson. Who is there, I don't know. I remember
them having a young stad It was Kenny Gregory.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Nikause she was young at that age. Yeah, sophomore.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah. They beat us on a really bad call at
their place, and then they played us. We played them
the big tall championship game in the term, and that
we couldn't school. We were so tired with big I
bet fifty five thirty seven, fourth game in four days,
and and you're playing basically and it's basically like faul Allen.
But and we just got beat. But that's why where
(37:32):
the energy came from the next year for us to
crush them. But yeah, I mean so the thing about
the pleustra and Gallagher where I played was like this
though too. But Pluster the roof is you know, it's
like a cathedral, right. But still those older places that
are smaller, A team like Kansas comes in and god damn,
they look like giants. They look like the biggest dudes
(37:53):
Ever're like, oh god, these spaceship. The court's too small
for them.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
So it looks like, yeah, it's a shame though, you know,
I don't even remember who the coach was back then,
but that would never happen today, Like Kansas would never
go play Penn Williams Rose coach, that was coach. Yeah,
Like when I was there, we had Maryland who ended
up winning the national championship with with Blake and taj
(38:18):
Holden and Baxter, and they came to the Paluster we
got a WME game against Maryland, Like how how cool
is that? That just it doesn't happen anymore because because.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
The play neutral sites, it's just too risky for them.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
But though that's the thing though, it's it's really it's
like such a miss.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
You think, you know, let me hear, why do you
think it's a misconception. I'm going to try and argue
the other side.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I mean now, and obviously it's very case by case dependent, okay,
but for the most part, if you're that good, it
doesn't matter. You're gonna win twenty five to thirty games anyway.
I mean, you know, I mean there's the the one
year where like, oh my god, and if you play
a road game, like it doesn't really hurts you if
(39:03):
you lose a game because you because the other team
played out of their mind. I mean, you gotta be
careful about it, right, Like you're not gonna go like, hey,
we're gonna go play at Southern Illinois and then we're
gonna go, right Like, you gotta be careful.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
That's what I mean. Like, so our pen teams were
always pretty good, yeah, but you are.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
You guys were good, so it didn't hurt your numbers.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Nobody, it didn't.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
And I'm sure you know like Roy Williams did it
every year, but he would do it to take a
kid home.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Right, that's different. Now they do a neutral cord. Now
that game would be played at you know whatever the
town center, right, yeah, whatever that name is now. But
for them, like I'm gonna say, I'm gonna like combine
my pen years in my Coolgate years. Colgate was very good,
Like we were, you know, one hundred ken poum or
one hundred and fifteen kN poms. So you're probably if
(39:48):
you're a top twenty team, you're probably gonna win that game.
But you know, the spread swings a little bit because
you're playing on the road, and if you lose that game,
it wasn't a big enough loss that it made sense
for you if you wont yeah, you're supposed to remember
you lose that game. Like that's that even though the
numbers say it doesn't hurt you, it's the mistique. I think.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
I wish there was a way where they could do
like a some sort of like I don't know the
computer or whatever, but they like you have to play
one game a year where you put your name in
the hat and then it just draws it and just
be random.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
That's great, right, I love it.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
It just be random. But you know, I like, I'm
trying to think. We played played a home and home
with TC when I was at Notre Dame. Do we
play anywhere? Put that Indiana? We got smoked paid Xavier
this back when they played in the CINCINNATAI Gardens and
we beat them. That was a huge win. We played
Loyola of Maryland and beat them. They were not very good.
(40:53):
That was a weird schedule thing that had beat There
had to be somebody we were recruiting or something. We
literally played on the road to.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Low of Maryland's Yeah, that doesn't.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Crazy crazy, But the other thing is like once you
get into college basketball, like that's the stuff you love. Yeah,
playing in these arenas that are quarter full is blah.
I don't I much. I remember playing at TCU, I
remember playing at Xavier. I remember, uh you know, we
played at UNLB twice two years in a row on
(41:25):
the road. That was a great one. I pulled coach
setting aside, we're walking off we beat them two years
in row, and I said, Coach, I don't believe the
team at our levels ever played road games against one
opponent two consecutive years. Like you love Vegas that much?
He's like, son Billy Beno couldn't organize his fist fight.
(41:47):
I was dying. I was dying. Oh shit, I was like, okay, noted.
Was it your senior year. You guys lost Oakland State? Yeah, yes,
at the Garden right at the TV at whatever was
called back then, the Fleet Center maybe or Boston Boston Garden, whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
But yeah, yeah, that was That was probably our best
team when I was a senior. We had an awesome
old team at the time, and then we had a
couple of young guys, like a sophomore Tim Begley, that
was pretty good. So we were we were super excited.
We were we were like the trendy pick that was
a six to eleven game, and and we actually love
(42:30):
the draw. I'm not gonna lie. When it came out,
we're like, this is awesome. We wanted to play Syrus.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
We got Syracuse second game too.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
We wanted Syracuse first round. That's how crazy were because
they played zone and you could not a zone that
they would have smoked us. I don't know they would
have to come out of the zone, I think, but we.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Were Malcahima State was up. That was the national change
was up seventeen at halftime.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Again, yes, but anyway we got we got that drum like,
oh awesome. They haven't won a road game all year.
Like they're young, they're they you know, they play kind
of a grinded out style. And then we got in
the game and Tony Allen I think was able to
guard three of us at one time. And Victor Williams
little point guard. I don't know if you remember one
of it. He just like we had no chance of
(43:11):
keeping him in front.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So between these so freaking quick, so cool. That was
so my senior year. He was his red shirt year. Okay, okay,
And I mean like now he would throw a ball
at least twice a practice that would hit you know
that now they have the rotating boards, but back then
they had the little plastic boards, and he would just
throw a ball to nobody when it hit the boards.
(43:33):
And uh, he was definitely a mid range guy more longer,
but he was. I mean, without any question, I guard
Alan Everson. He's the quickest dude I've ever tried to.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
I believe I would say the same. I never guarded Ai,
but I had no chance to keeping victory, but I
was pretty good defensive player. No chance, no chance. That
was a good game. I mean, it went back and forth.
I think they ended up they ended up winning by
a lot, but it was like a two possession game
with like three minutes left when they made free throws
and we couldn't hit a shot. So disappointing, Like strangely enough,
(44:02):
we had we went three of my four years and
we never won, and I I kind of am disappointed
with that because we had some monster teams. We had
really good teams, and we never could get the either
the matchup or the playing at our peak in the tournament.
We just could never get it done. And it's like,
just looking back, it still haunts me that we couldn't
get it done.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Do you like the ivy league having a tournament now.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
I love it. I love it. I wish we were
all eight teams, honestly. And now I'm in the UAA
in Division three, which is the only Division one, two
or three conference that does not have a tournament, and
I'm pushing and pushing a tournament, but logistically it's a
little bit more difficult in our league. But we had
my junior year, we tied, so in the ivy's back then,
(44:44):
when there was no tournament, if you tied, it didn't
matter the tie breakers. You had a tournament. So we
tied with there was a three way tie with US, Princeton,
and Yale, so Princeton and Yale played first, and then
the winner played US in the finals, so you kind
of had a mini tournament. And I just remember that
chanceampionship game that we played Yale to see who's going
to go to the tournament was electric. It was ridiculous,
(45:05):
and I was like, why would people not want this?
So I'm glad they do it now. There's nothing like
a conference tournament. It's just it's so fun, especially at
the lower levels, where the winner it's like winning in
losing out right, and there's just so much.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
The other side to it, though, is like, if you
win your league, and especially the IVY league's a double
round robin, right, so you play everybody twice. If you
win your league, why do you have to go beat
everybody again?
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Because I believe that the team that should go is
the team that's playing the best in March. So if
you started two and two and this happened to Penn
a couple of years after, or maybe it was the
year after our graduated, they started owing two and it
was like, boo, they're done, but they weren't. They might
have been the best team in the league, but you
just it's a really hard holder to dig out of.
(45:56):
And again I'm not saying that it's not warranted. Whoever
wins the regular season is the best team in the league.
I'm just saying there's something to be said for a
tournament style. You lose, you go home, you win, you're
in come to play. It's what March madness is all
about to a degree. And yeah, you might not always
have the best representative of your league, but playing that
(46:20):
tournament where the stakes are high, the crowds into it,
everybody understands what's going on. It's just it's fun. And
I feel the same way right now in the UAA.
Now ua is a multi bid league, so it's a
little bit different, but it's still the tournament is just
so fun. You watch these games in March of these
lower levels and the gym's past. I love when the
host hosts and the gym's packed and the I like.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
That as well. I think that's I think that's the
appropriate reward for for a winning your league right at
the home game. Yes, no, I like like the Patriot
League has that. I've always always, always loved that.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
It's just so hard to win in Hamilton in March.
Like you know, I think Boston knocked us off three years,
but it's probably a fifteen or you know, close to
twelve to fifteen game winning streak, and it's just there
hasn't really been a close game because we packed the
We packed the house and the fans were crazy. It's
a small gym, and it's just it's a really fun
atmosphere that you don't always get in a fourteen game
(47:17):
regular season, even when it's a big game.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
One last thing about Penn. You know, things are so
different now, right Teams practice in the summer. They practice
the summer obviously had summer tours as well, you have
individual workouts. I really doesn't have any of that, still
doesn't have any of that. What was your what was
your your internships when you're at Penn.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
So my freshman and sophomore summer, I stuck around Philly,
which there's nothing like Philly summers, at least when I
was there, because what would happen is you get the
guys from Drexel, the guys from Temple, the guys from
Saint Jose, they'd all come and we'd play pick up.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
So you didn't everybody play pick up? Didn everybody play
pick up at Drexel, like, well, when I was there.
I was there one summer. I think it was for
Maccabi and uh there was the big run was at
drex left.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
It rotates. I remember playing at Drexel sometimes, I remember
playing at Penn. And the great thing is is if
you didn't have ten like some the way I got
better between my freshman and sophomore years was like king
of Court, playing against guys like Ashley Howard and Lamar
Palmer who was on our team. Uh, and again they
(48:32):
would kicking my butt. But I learned and learned and
just got better, and that's how my defense got better.
That's how my ability to get by got better. But
just all summer just playing against the local Philly guys.
We'd have runs with all different type players, you know,
different schools, pros would come back. So it was great,
it was It was a really good experience. And then
junior summer, I got an internship in New York City
(48:56):
and that was a fun summer too. That was a
little bit different of an experience. But because you're working
a lot of hours and then I just play.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I mean, how did you manage playing ball?
Speaker 2 (49:06):
So I found pickup games wherever I could. That summer
was a little bit different. Like pretty much every summer
I worked on my game. You know, you're getting shots up,
you're working on different things. That summer I was just
competing like I didn't really I didn't really work on
too many skills. Like I just found games and I
used to play. There's like a game at a little
(49:28):
little gym like near Houston and Thompson, and then there
was I used to get I used to go to
the Nayak and play there with a lot of the
x ivy IVY guys and pros. So I'd lift there
and play there and just find like wherever I can
find games. I tried to just get and get out
and play.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
What was your internship?
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I worked for Merrill Lynch in a rotational program where
you sit on a desk for six weeks, then you
rotate it. Not six weeks, probably, uh probably it was
probably eight week's total, so probably two or three weeks
at a time, and you're basically on an eight week interview,
so you're not doing a whole lot, but you're always,
(50:10):
you know, on edge because you're trying to get the
job for the next year. Sure, that was that was
but it was fun like it. I loved it. I
loved it. It's strangely enough, I stayed in the NYU
dorms with one of my teammates and you know, you're working,
you're having a blast. You're twenty twenty one years old,
living in the city. It was fun. It was It was.
(50:31):
It was. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
I mean the I mean the the the actual the walls,
the actual job, the Wall Street job.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
So as you like, you're not you, you weren't allowed
to have any real responsibilities, right, You can't trade, you
can't talk to client. You know, you can't really do
anything because you're not certified. So in essence, you're the
go get guy, right like, hey, I need a coffee,
Go get me a coffee. I need lunch, Go get lunch.
That that's like your main responsibilities. But on top of that,
(50:59):
you're trying to learn. You're trying to connect, and you're
trying to show everyone how hard work you are and
how smart you are, and without being annoying. Like I
was in the opposite. You know, I was also working
on Wall Street and having interns, and you don't want
somebody sitting next to you asking a million questions, but
you also want somebody you don't want them just sitting
there doing nothing. You have to find a balance. So
(51:22):
that was always a tricky thing, is Okay, how can
I like show that I am inquisitive and want to learn,
but not be too annoying, because you know how annoying
people are when they sit next to you, so you know,
so that was that was basically what you're trying to
do is just meet people network, have them like you,
show that you can do the job and do it
well and are a hard worker. So that's always the
(51:44):
advice I give when people do these internships.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
That's it for part one of Coach KLASKI wait tea here,
how the NYU job came to be and what it's
like for him to uh to be a head coach
for the first time. Oh yeah, and by the way,
like all of these intricate stories about how how Colgate
got it going, how they become so dominant in the
(52:10):
Patriot League, all that's upcoming in the next episode. Reminded
of the Doug Goatlib shows daily three to five Eastern time,
twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Thanks so much for listening. I'm Doug Gotlieb. This is
all ball
Hey, want to welcome in. I'm Doug Godi. This is
all ball and Man, we got a great guest for
you on this episode, actually this two part episode. David
Klaski joins with me. He's the head coach at NYU,
and I think you'll be impressed by his journey and
also the people who have affected him along the way
(00:28):
and what it's like to finally be a head coach
and have your own team, which he's been able to
do at NYU, one of the prestigious not just universities,
but also programs in Division II basketball. After being an
assistant most recently at Colgate University and then of course
he spent time in the private sector. All those pen
(00:50):
guys with their award and degrees and whatnot. A couple
of quick things though, in regards to basketball, since we
are in the offseason and many of these teams are
getting ready to take their overseas trips, you also had
the Bronnie James incident. Let's start with Bronnie. You know,
as of the time of this recording, nobody knows, you know,
(01:10):
we've seen Bronnie playing the piano. His dad took him
to dinner. Thankfully, he's not hospitalized. Looks all good, but
you know, those of us, especially in Los Angeles, you
grew up here, you remember, and Gathers right, and Gathers
went from me passed out when they played U see
Santa Barbara, and then he missed some games, then got medication,
(01:34):
then was a great player, and then of course tragically died.
Now I'm not like, and if anybody takes us like
I'm painting that as a picture, I have no idea,
nor is it really my business what Bronnie james medical
condition actually is that led to his heart stopping and
having to be having a cardiac arrest. I can only
tell you though that while USC had a player last
(01:55):
year that came back and played, Bronni is different because
one we don't know the medical can do if it's
the same or different too. I mean, like, I love basketball.
I'm sure he loves basketball, but can we be honest
he does not need to play basketball to have an
incredible life, right. And also we're like, do you think
he's going to get insured? Has anybody asked themselves that, like, oh, yeah, yeah,
(02:17):
you can. Like getting cleared is a really hard hurdle,
you know, and hopefully it is a very minor some
sort of medical condition they feel like they can manage
with medication. But I mean, look, it's hard enough to
get cleared when you're, like most of us, you don't
come from much anything. When your dad's a billionaire and
the most famous basketball player playing in the world, it
(02:41):
seems like it's going to be hard to get him cleared.
And then you know, you get people saying, well, you know,
you can get a defibrillator, and yes, there have been
players come back and play with a defibrillator, but all
of these steps make it much much more difficult for
it comeback. Let's just I mean, all you can do
is go like, man, I'm so happy he's okay, and
wait to see. But I do think that while coming
(03:02):
back and playing is a possibility, I think there's an
equal or greater possibility he never plays basketball again. And honestly,
like people will will tell you, I've been a harsh
critic of Ronnie James, I haven't. It's not about Bronnie.
It's about the way in which he's been rated or reviewed.
You know, his yelp is not really accurate for how
(03:26):
he has played or how he's actually evaluated by people
who evaluate it feels like it's a product of a one.
You see a little bit of Lebron and I'm in two.
There are people that want to curry favor with with Lebron.
So the critique is not of Bronnie. I mean you
obviously a critique is game like you do anybody, but
it's more a critique of again, how people talk about
(03:48):
all of those things. As far as conference realignment, Like,
we're on the brink here. Obviously, the Big Twelve feeling
like it's going to expand, and if it expands to
have Arizona in the Big twelve, man, I mean you
want to talk about a murderer's row Arizona, Kansas, Houston.
(04:10):
I think Cincinnati is going to be very very good.
There's the outside possibility of a Yukon joining the league. Again,
let's leave that as an outside possibility. I think that's
a bit of a stretch because the stronger likelihood is
that if the Big Twelve adds more teams, they don't
go east, they go west, And if they leave spots open,
they're not leaving them open for Yukon. It would be
(04:32):
leaving them open for the possibility of like an acc
implosion and the ACC implosion takes place, you know, they'll
go after Virginia Tech to partner with West Virginia. They'll
go after Florida State, you know, to marry them with
Central Florida. I think there's some just some big dogs
there in the ACC that you got to take a
(04:52):
swing at before you go back and settle at Yukon.
And I think Yukon fans know, I love the program,
the fact that you know, they put a ton of
money into baseball. Obviously, basketball is coming off a national championship.
Women's basketball should be back with pageback playing for the
women's team. But just football is not close to being
at that level, and there's the feeling from people in
(05:15):
the league that it'll never be at that level, and
it you know, it's at like it's an anchor. You know,
you don't want an anchor bringing down the football league.
My thought would be, hey, rising tide lifts all ships,
and yeah, maybe that's down in terms of football, but
you know, you have plenty of other opportunities to grow football.
(05:38):
Like I think Arizona State is a would be a
huge win. Arizona State, to me, reminds me kind of
a big ten school. You know, it's in a major
city and a growing city. Unlike some of those Midwest cities.
This is one of the growing metropolis in the United States.
And they you know, they have over one hundred thousand
students on any given year. And the other part to
the Arizona schools, which should not be under sold, should
(06:01):
not be underrated. I think Florida schools have a little
bit of this, but really Arizona schools is every one
of the athletic directors I've talked to said, you know,
we want to be in Arizona, not just because they're
starting to get players in Arizona and it start to
become part of the recruiting conversation. And you know, Phoenix
is a growing market. It also leaks into southern California.
(06:21):
But we have a lums in Arizona. We have a
lums in Phoenix, Scottsdale, Tempe, you know who retired. They're
powerful lums that retired want to play golf and then
want to donate to their school and now they can
see their school play on a yearly basis right there
in town. So I think Yukon's a bit of a stretch.
I think Arizona has been the most open about wanting
(06:41):
to reach out to be in the league. But I
do think that partnering with Arizona would probably be the
smartest thing and how that affects college basketball. You know,
if you've been paying attention, the state of Arizona, you
know is really really expanding in terms of the number
of prep schools and all of the reach of recruiting
is starting to reach there. You know, over time, Elite
(07:05):
is moving and they're going to have a league of
prep schools right there in Phoenix in the valley as well.
So I think it's a recruiting win. I think it's
a it's an expansion win. And obviously, you know, once
you can get Colorado, that begins the you know Power
five moving to Power five, that changed the dynamic. The
one thing I don't like for Colorado is that without
(07:27):
a Southern California school, that's going to change their recruiting.
And maybe those thoughts are from the past, right, I mean,
like players now will go to places they would never
go to before because it's about nil, not where you
want to play and where you want to stay. But
you know, Spencer Dinwid, he's an LA guy. You know,
(07:48):
and Colorado with their once they got in the pack twelve.
The idea is, we want to we want to get
California kids, California football kids, California basketball kids. Bring them
out to Boulder, you know, Boulders a great spot, very chill.
You know. That changed the dynamic, and I it'll be
interesting to see if the Big Ten can benefit recruiting
(08:08):
wise from getting into southern California, especially considering how all
in on sports the Big Ten is in comparison to
what's remaining in the Pac Ten. So all right, let's
we got some NBA stuff to get to. We'll get
to that in the next pod. I got a chance
to say down with Dave Klasky. He's the head coach
of NYU. Here's his journey Your first memories of basketball aware.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Oh wow, we're going way back. Yeah, I think I
was so My brother was in second grade, which means
I was about four or five, and I remember my
dad throwing me in his first and second grade rec
basketball game, being three years younger and just playing as
(08:56):
hard as I could, Like, I remember the little gym,
village school, the eight foot rims. But uh, that's probably
my first memory of playing the game that I can
like picture, So going back.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
In Greenwich Village, that is it Greenwich Village?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
No, No village school in Homedewn, New Jersey, which is
where I grew up. So random school, random elementary school
in New Jersey that no one except if you're from
home Dell would know about. But that's uh, that's what
came in my mind when you threw that question out there.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
When did you decide like basketball was your jam? And
I say that because you know, specialization starts at a
younger age. Now when was it for you? They like,
this is what I like doing?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Probably not until I was twelve or thirteen. I grew
up playing every sport, but uh, I started to narrow down,
Like I gave up baseball in second or third grade.
I played soccer till eighth grade, but I was I
was pretty good at tennis, so I kind of thought
that would be my But the more life went on,
(10:04):
I just really enjoyed basketball more. So I just took
a turn and just started playing basketbamore. I never thought
I'd played Division one basketball until I was probably a
junior in high school and started to get recruited. But
I knew tennis, I could be good. I just didn't
enjoy the practice. I didn't enjoy private lessons of just
hitting one hundred four hands down the line, hundred four
(10:26):
hands cross court, you know, back so but basketball, even practice,
I just love competing and just the movements of basketball.
So I kind of navigate. Ended up going that way,
And I would say probably twelve or thirteen was when
I really locked in on basketball. I don't want to
say basketball only because I still played tennis all through
high school, but that was when it got serious. I
(10:48):
would say, who's your high school coach, Tom Stead?
Speaker 1 (10:55):
What was he like?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
He's great. I'm still very close to him today. Him
and the assistant, Tom Pushy. Both of those guys their
legends in their own right. Just to both those guys,
they fostered a program of being demanding. But also we
had a great time, like great culture. We were very
successful in high school. We won two state championships at
(11:17):
Little Home Deel High School, which has never been done.
And those guys are a big part. We're still close today.
I'm sure I'll now make them watch this and they'll
get a kick out of seeing their their names mentioned.
But both were great influences on me, both on and
off the court. So still really grateful that I got
a chance to play for them.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
What was his style like as a coach, how'd you
guys play?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
We played pretty free before you were playing free. So
we had like a motion based offense where there's a
lot of passing, cutting and screening, basically positionless basketball. And
you know, I graduated high school and let's say ninety nine,
so this was way before it's time. We were firing threes,
way before everybody knew you could shoot threes, and they
(12:04):
were more valuable. So we had, you know, again, small
small town in Jersey, I was the only Division one player,
and then we had probably four really good Division three
players alongside of me that were just tough as nails.
We were undersized and just got a lot out of
what we were, but it was it was a fun time.
(12:24):
He was a demanding coach, but also he was he
was We were able to be ourselves and express ourselves
and have a good time while we were winning.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
What was your recruiting process, Like, all.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Right, we're going way back here. I like it. So
I was. I played on a really good AU team
called the Central Jersey Hawks, all throughout my life, and
by the time we were sophomores in high school, it
started to become clear we were we were pretty good.
We made the national Championship, which back then there was
the Nationals. I'm sure you remember this. Uh, there wasn't
(12:59):
a hundred different tournaments. It was won the States. He
went to Nationals and that was where everybody, all the
best teams were. So we made the finals my sophomore
in junior season, we had guys and I'm going to
throw some names up, but I'm sure not many people
can remember these guys, But like Taj Holden played at
Maryland showan Exani played at Rutgers, Andrew Toole, who people
should still be familiar with in the basketball world. Head
(13:22):
coach of Robert Morris played at Elon and then transferred
to penm with me. A guy named Chris Adams played
at Elon, and then we had some stints of Dante
Jones playing with us a year and Rick Appadaca from
Hofstra and he played professionally in Puerto Rico for a
long time, so we knew we had a good team.
And I think for me, probably at the end of
(13:43):
my sophomore year, I started getting some calls, a lot
of ivs, some lower level division ones, it's some high
level division threes. And again I didn't think I was
good enough. I thought it was too small, you know,
to this, to that. But as the seasons went on
and I started getting real recruitment from the Penn's and
(14:03):
the Harvard's and the Yales, I realized that I may
be able to play Division one basketball. So the Penn coaches,
in particular Frand Dumpy and Steve Donna Whue is now
the head coach of Penn, did a really good job
of just being everywhere, like coach Donahue and coach Don
for had a ton of my games. I really liked
the fact that Penn had a tremendous business school. I
(14:25):
had a feeling I was going to get into some
type of finance or business after I was done playing.
So they just did a really good job. I think
I ended up committing before my senior year, so I
was done by probably September or August of September of
going into my senior year locked and loaded for Penn.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
How go with your grades? I mean, because pretty good,
pretty good? I was.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
I was probably in on own at that time. Now
now now not so much. Which has harder to is
to get into these academic schools. But I was, I
was like almost all a's taking aps. I don't remember.
I was somewhere around four point I was. I got
a lot of a's and some d's in there. And
(15:12):
then I'm a math guy, so I did really well
in the in the math part of the s A
T and and uh, I was able to find my
way into.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Pen Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.
Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio dot com
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listen live.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Where's that? Where does the academic did you? Was it
a strong push from home, like because it's interesting, you know,
raising kids now as opposed to raising kids then. And
you know, I, uh, I come from a Jewish family
that we There wasn't really a discussion over hey this
(15:56):
teacher is not nice or I don't understand. This was
the get good grades? What if I don't? There is
no don't you like you get good grades? Right? And uh,
my kid's mom she she was a self starter, so
she didn't she was the first one to go to
college in her family. So she's not as much of
(16:18):
a pusher. Right for you, you achieve incredible things academically.
Where's that come from?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
My parents? I think probably similar households. It was academics
come first, and if you have to miss practice, that's
I mean, that was always a threat. I never actually
missed practice, but plenty of times my dad and my
mom would be like, yeah, if you don't do your
work or you don't like do your best, you're you're
not going to practice, Like that's all that matters. You're
not going to be professional. I mean, growing up, I
(16:46):
didn't think I would even play at the level I did,
like I said, So it was it was really just
how our house was orchestrated.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
My older brother went to Penn, I went to Penn,
and my younger sister went to Columbia. So it was,
you know, clearly part of what we were taught and
thought about growing up, but it wasn't in a way.
You know, I've been coaching now at high academic schools
for a little over fifteen years, and you come across
all different types of families, right, You come across the
kids that are just completely pushed by their parents, and
(17:17):
they get free and it's like downhill, right because they
were never self motivated. But I really think about this
and talk about this a lot with people. Somehow my parents,
and maybe it was my parents and my older brother,
they were able to do it in a way that
we were self motivated. Like I wasn't doing it for them,
(17:38):
I was doing it for me. I just wanted to
be better than everybody at school. That was kind of
the reality. I was very competitive. I wanted to be
whatever I did, I wanted to be better than people,
and that included getting to higher math score. That getting
a higher math score. So it is a tricky thing.
I don't know as a parent now, same thing I'm
going through it, Like, all right, how can we motivate
them to want them to be the best they can
(18:00):
be without shoving it down their throats where you know,
as soon as they're old enough, it's gonna they're gonna
almost rebel and do the opposite. So it's the daily fight.
I got little kids now, so I'm in it. But
I think about it all the time. My mom and
dad were able to foster that within us, and can
we do that to them in this generation which is
(18:21):
completely different.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
It is a very different generation. So you show the
Penn how many because and people know like IVY leagues
have jbs, right there was you know, I mean it's
more how many kids they get in than some sort
of number. So how many were in your recruiting class?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
With six in our recruiting class, big class, really good class.
So the two most high profile guys guy named Ugano
and que and Coco Archibong, We're just not IVY League
players at the time they were they were awesome. And
then myself and a guy named Andrew Coates, and another
(19:01):
Dwayne King, then Harold Bailey, so the four of us
and even Dwayne King. Dwayne King was as a recruit
not really an I BELIEVEUE recruit at the time. He
was a little hi, more high profile. But we had
six big class. But like you said, Penn had a
full varsity team and a full JV team. But those
six guys were recruited for varsity only, and then there
(19:21):
might have been one or two that ended up playing JV.
I don't even remember who else was in our class
that played JV. I don't know if there were any,
but it's that's common at ivutes.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
So for practice is JB at practice and they're like.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
No, it was. It's a separate entity. Now what pended
back in the day is of the JV guys. They
would get called up for one home game so they
could play.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Now, they didn't always get in, but if we were
up a lot, they'd get in, and it was one
of the cooler moments for them to get in. The
crowd would go nuts, you know, they would they would
dress for one game and they would just would be
rooting for blowouts so they could get in.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Awesome. What do you remember about your friend? Like, I
remember distinctly, I remember pick a ball leading up to
like when I was at Notre Dame, I remember conditioning.
I remember my first practice as well. But what's it
like like a let's say a fall at Penn. You
guys are very good at the time, right, dumf has
(20:21):
it rolling? What is like okay? At a high major school?
I mean I remember Oklahoma State and Notre Dame. Like
Oklham State, for example, we'd run at six in the morning,
then we'd all go have most of us have breakfast together,
go to class whatever in the afternoon. Lift, you play
right and you do that and then you have individual
(20:43):
workouts on other days, like it's a full week of stuff.
And then you know, because you only have we only
have one team and you have like twelve guys and
you have a couple of walk ons, the pickup ball
devolves after like like first week back, everybody's super excited,
new guys kind of you know, trying to everybody's trying
(21:03):
to establish who they are, what they improved on, or
who the new guys are whatever. But then like you
can only play against the same guys so many times
before it just gets fun day. What's it like a penn.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I don't remember exactly that detail. I'm very impressed. I
do remember some of the memories and thoughts that I
had freshman year, and you know, I'll start with just
you come, like you said, you come as a freshman
and there wasn't all the social media, so you didn't
really know that much about everybody. So I remember like
(21:34):
playing pick up those were like the first memories and
just being like I am getting my ask. These guys
are stronger, they're tougher, My moves aren't working, and I
was just like, man, this is hard. And then I
do remember our first like our four man workouts. You
couldn't do full team then, but the four man workouts
(21:55):
being like a little bit of a little bit of
skill work. But then Dump, if you've ever played for Dump,
you know he just wanted he just like that just compete,
like just compete, so we would compete. So I got
through all those and again was ready for the season
to start. And then I remember my first practice and
like he had been involved in the four man workouts,
but he basically just watched and the assistants ran the show.
(22:18):
And then day one I remember he just like it's
Dump like and he's he's he's a politician. He's the
greatest guy ever off the court and on the court.
But I didn't know how intense it was gonna be
my first practice because he recruits you and he's mild
mannered and he speaks softly and slowly with a lot
(22:38):
of substance. And then I get in the first practice
and he's screaming at guys. I'm like, oh my god,
this is this is what college basketball is. This is
this is crazy, Like who is this guy yelling at me?
In day one? And I just remember the game moving
so fast. I had six turnovers in practice, which like
for my game. I ended up leading this the league
(23:00):
and it's just a turnover that. I wasn't a turnover guy.
But I just remember like it was way too hard
for me and Coach Donna you pulled me aside after
the Privy like that's not who you are, Like just
slow down. And now as a coach, I always give
that advice. I'm like, look, your first day or your
first week, it's gonna seem like the game is moving
so fast. It's okay because the game will slow down
(23:22):
even after one week, but especially as you keep playing
in this system and against the same guys. But I
just remember being like, oh my god, this is this
is really hard. What am I getting myself into.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's interesting because it was probably about three weeks in
my first year Notre Dame and another PENG guy, Frean
McCaffrey that's a recruited me to Notre Dames, and I
was just getting my ass kicked. Now. Part of it
was one we didn't really play a style that was conducive,
and our five on five stuff in practice with John
(23:56):
McCleod was like, put twenty six seconds in the clock
and we'll play in half court basketball, because you know,
back then it was a what a thirty five second child, right,
And and I mean we're running like a motion offense.
And you know my chool program same thing. I was
coached by Andy Ground. He went onto windnes State championships
(24:16):
in junior college as well. He's a very good coach.
And so you think my dad was a college coach.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You think you.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Practice at a level of intensity and then you have
no idea. Plus the bodies are so much bigger, you know,
you can't really avoid being screened nearly as well. And again,
like you said, this is the old motion offense days,
and you're just you think you're guardinger guy. Then boom
boom boom. And the guy that I was brought into
like you're going to beat him out, don't worry about it.
He is kicking add more whites to the name, and
(24:44):
he is kicking my like on a daily basis. And
at Notre Dame we had the Blue was the first team,
that Gold was the second team. And I used to
come in every day and my jersey was gold enough.
I would I made up a song on the gold again.
Just came up to play some defense with my friends.
I can't wait to get on the gold again right
like I was. I was, so I was like second team.
(25:06):
Finally I went into Franny and I was like, Franny,
you got to send me home. I suck. I'm just good,
Like I'm sorry. I know you guys thought I was good,
but I clearly can't beat that at more White and
I was supposed to be and he's just kicking my ass.
So I remember, I remember, but but then I remember
(25:27):
a turning once games started. But Penn's so different. Right,
as good as you guys are, you're not playing guarantee
games where you can thump somebody earl year. So what
was as a freshman, what was your early experience like
when games started?
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So actually this is again because I was getting my
butt kicked every day by the seniors and the older guys.
Our opening game was against Kentucky out Rup, so it
wasn't like, uh, you know, you walk in, like you said,
a guarantee game or a Division three game. We started
playing against Jamal mcglore. I think Tayshaun Prince might have
(26:04):
been on that team. Saul Smith was my matchup though.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
So if you thought you thought that first practice was
something you walk out in the Big Blue Nation and
that was when they had it rolling.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Oh they were rolling, they were rolling, and but we
were good, like we had We had a really good
team returning. They just won the Ivy's and we brought
in this like awesome freshman class, so we battled like
I think we might have been winning at halftime. But
I actually my memory is the opposite because like Mike
Jordan at the time, he was a senior and he
(26:35):
was IVY League Player of the Year for one or
two years and just like a dog, like one of
the best defensive players will have to play against, played
professionally for thirteen years. So he was guarding me every
day in practice. And I got to the game and
it was Saul Smith and like, this is easy. I
don't know m j on me anymore. This is ah,
this is a cake walk. So I actually had like
a little bit different experience. Now, the difference was you
(26:59):
get by him and Jamal mcglore is standing in the
back line, you know, and you're not you're not getting
an shots off. But but that that was a really
fun experience to play at Kentucky and they ended up
beating us by probably ten ten points or so or
I don't even remember how much. But we were in
the game and it was really the competitive and I
I got in, which again I was shocked about. But
(27:20):
I ended up having a very big role that year.
And you know, like you said, once games came around,
then all those things that you're good at that lead
to winning that might not show up in practice start
to show up, like taking care of the ball and
taking good shots and guarding and getting loose balls, like
all those things, which is what I did as a
(27:40):
fifth option on that team was extremely valuable. So I
found a way to get on the court early.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
What was dump like in games.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Dump in games, the intensity was still the same, and
I like, he's now a little bit different of a
coach in this area. He's one of the small artist
guys will ever meet, just in terms of how he thinks.
But uh, he was intense. And you know his best
line that I remember is, you know, if you started
the game poorly, he'd just looked at you and be like,
(28:12):
I wish you would have let me know that you
weren't ready to go, then I would have started somebody else.
And you're like, I thought I was ready, And maybe
not in that tone. Maybe it was a little bit
louder and aggressive as.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Any kid, by the way, ever gone like a coach,
I'm not ready to start start, Jimmy. Things that don't
ever happen, like that that that that adm where the
ball goes out of bounds and it's off the kid
and he turns to the raft and he's like, no,
it was off me. Things that just don't happen, Like
(28:48):
I know they should happen, but they just don't.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
No, he was he was great. I mean he he
was a guy that just got the most out of you.
You played so hard or you didn't play. So that
was that carried over to games, and I think that
was what he did. He got the most out of
his teams and his players.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
How how because like I felt like that was the
magic to coach Suddon was that, you know, I mean
we didn't run anything super special. We had really good players.
I mean we had good, good players and a lot
(29:32):
of them we were we had transfers before transfers really
in vogue, right, But if you tried to find like
what's the secret sauce, it's like you just played way
harder than you ever thought possible, you know, And that
was really it, Like hard and tough and like that's it.
And I do think there's like a that's that's the
(29:55):
secret sauce, especially the college game, like that that's the
secret sauce. Right, Yeah, you got to not turn the
back a ball over. There's a tough to sellment to that,
but there's also a skill element to it. You know,
you got to take good shots, you got to Coaches
got to be demanding to a point, right, and some
of that has evolved and changed, but getting you guys
to play just hard. And I've heard coaches say like, well,
(30:17):
you don't coach effort, Like I frankly that's bullshit, Like
you may not coach it, but you demand it, right.
And so his way, it was just an every day
in practice sort of thing where one there's a little
bit of fear of God in him and I don't
know if dump had this right, where you just I
don't know why, you're just scared to death of the
(30:38):
old man. And then and then you recruit competitive kids
right where they're all out there, you know, we're all
fighting after one bone. And then there's the constant demands
in practice of kind of everybody of just hey, let's
get after it. Let's like harder, harder, play hard, play harder,
play hardists, right, But that was his style. How did
(31:00):
dump get you guys to play at that level in
terms of energy wise?
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Very similar to what you just said. I think again,
different errors. And I'd be curious to go to one
of his practices now I went a couple of years ago.
But uh, the fear of the fear of God, of knowing.
You know, he was intense and you wanted to please him.
And it wasn't like it is today. Like he said
some things that that I never took his offensive. It
(31:29):
was like, all right, I got to do better, and
and he had that way of doing that. I use
this example a lot. His way of motivating was he
never demeaned you. He never you know, made you feel
like you were two feet tall. But he like had
this way of driving you to be the best you
could be. And a specific example is like you'd be
(31:50):
on defense and practice and and somebody would get the
ball and they'd go middle on you. We didn't give
up middle at the time.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
And he'd like, hold on, hold on, like David, you
think Dwayne King can get middle on you? See, I
think higher of you than you do, because there's no
way Dwayne King can get middle on you.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
But you clearly don't think as high as I do
about yourself. No chance that happens again. And like you're like, yeah,
how the heck did Dwayne just get middle on me?
Speaker 3 (32:18):
He's not.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
That's not happening again, you know. Like so it was
one of those things where he'd call you out, but
it wasn't in a way that made you It was
it was like making you feel most more so.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
That was that was that was that he said. That
wasn't I've told this story before. It was like our
first day of practice and we would do one on
one contain on the side, right. We did a series
of defensive breakdown drills every day, one on one contained
uh into you know, drive to the seal, which was
the baseline help and then rotate and then we worked
(32:50):
on post double and that stuff. Anyway, so we're playing
one on one contained on the side and you know,
you got to get a stop to get the ball
then for your playoffs, and uh, somebody been scoring. I
think Joe Atkins are too guard. He's been scoring on guys.
So I get out there and I a hold up, coach.
We forced in middle, were forcing baseline? What do you mean?
(33:13):
I go, well, which way are we making him?
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Go?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Like guard your man? Like yeah, but I get a coach,
but like there's gonna be help four other guys in
the game. Like where we send. It was like you
guard your man or you come help me coach? Like
that was it? You guard man or you come help
me coach like a coach like like a guard your
(33:36):
man and uh so you know then the guy's place.
I like, yeah, we're for some baseline, we got help,
but like don't ask him that. And that was that
was that was his way, you know, and he would
just he would just it was just very very matter
of fact in a very stern kind of Southern way,
was like, you can't guard your man, just help me coach.
(33:56):
You a college man can't make that open shot? Call
help coach? Like that was that was That was his
way of saying, you're gonna you're gonna sit on the bench.
Come hop? How good was that team?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Pretty good? I'm thinking so that was my freshman year.
I think Ken Palmer goes back that far. I want
to say we were like in the like forty to
seventy range, which was really good. We ended up like
twenty one and seven or twenty one and eight or
something like that, and then lost in the first round
to Illinois. Illinois I think a four to thirteen matchup,
(34:35):
or maybe it was a five twelve. But we had
a really good team, and I think we all were
hoping we could knock somebody off in the tournament, but
it just didn't didn't work out for us.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
The IVY League then very different, right. It was basically
you guys and Princeton because this was before Donahue goes
to Cornell and got them going.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Right, Dartmouth really hasn't been competitive Browns, not really. They're
better now than they've been, but they've never been at
the top of league. And Harvard, of course is before
Tommy and they were never really competing. It was kind
of a two horse race right before yalees Yale's good. Now, right,
(35:19):
What was the IVY League like in terms of it's
got the unique Friday Saturday schedule? Right, there's all these
unique places. You're playing at the Polester, which is like
a palace. Oh, let me just ask you that first
double triple header at the Plestro, What do you remember?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
There's nothing like the Polestra. So I remember on my
recruiting trip going to watch Kansas versus pad Right and
Jeff Boshee and I think Rayful France might have been
on that team, and just being like, holy, this is
this is ninety eight, ninety eight ninety Okay?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
So ninety eight was ninety seven ninety eight? Was you
went in thet seven ninety eight?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
I played? It must have been ninety eight ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Okay, So yeah, that team had not Rafe had that's
the guy Kenny Gregory. Yeah, uh, Kenny Gregory.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
Did a young start. I think who is Nick Bradford?
That Teamford Gooden was until the next year. Gooden was
until I played them the next The next year had
three stars. Next year had had Collis and Heinrich and
good Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I remember we played.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
We smacked the ship, We smacked the ship up twice.
But it was only it was only because they were young.
We were like old man and we kicked the ship
out of the We've beat my thirty three and nineteen
good but but ninety all on this. I love this
challenge to it.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
So what was there? Because they beat us that year,
they were the Ryan.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
Robertson, Ryan Robertson, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Ryan Robertson. Who is there, I don't know. I remember
them having a young stad It was Kenny Gregory.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Nikause she was young at that age. Yeah, sophomore.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Yeah. They beat us on a really bad call at
their place, and then they played us. We played them
the big tall championship game in the term, and that
we couldn't school. We were so tired with big I
bet fifty five thirty seven, fourth game in four days,
and and you're playing basically and it's basically like faul Allen.
But and we just got beat. But that's why where
(37:32):
the energy came from the next year for us to
crush them. But yeah, I mean so the thing about
the pleustra and Gallagher where I played was like this
though too. But Pluster the roof is you know, it's
like a cathedral, right. But still those older places that
are smaller, A team like Kansas comes in and god damn,
they look like giants. They look like the biggest dudes
(37:53):
Ever're like, oh god, these spaceship. The court's too small
for them.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
So it looks like, yeah, it's a shame though, you know,
I don't even remember who the coach was back then,
but that would never happen today, Like Kansas would never
go play Penn Williams Rose coach, that was coach. Yeah,
Like when I was there, we had Maryland who ended
up winning the national championship with with Blake and taj
(38:18):
Holden and Baxter, and they came to the Paluster we
got a WME game against Maryland, Like how how cool
is that? That just it doesn't happen anymore because because.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
The play neutral sites, it's just too risky for them.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
It makes no sense.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
But though that's the thing though, it's it's really it's
like such a miss.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
You think, you know, let me hear, why do you
think it's a misconception. I'm going to try and argue
the other side.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I mean now, and obviously it's very case by case dependent, okay,
but for the most part, if you're that good, it
doesn't matter. You're gonna win twenty five to thirty games anyway.
I mean, you know, I mean there's the the one
year where like, oh my god, and if you play
a road game, like it doesn't really hurts you if
(39:03):
you lose a game because you because the other team
played out of their mind. I mean, you gotta be
careful about it, right, Like you're not gonna go like, hey,
we're gonna go play at Southern Illinois and then we're
gonna go, right Like, you gotta be careful.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
That's what I mean. Like, so our pen teams were
always pretty good, yeah, but you are.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
You guys were good, so it didn't hurt your numbers.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Nobody, it didn't.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
And I'm sure you know like Roy Williams did it
every year, but he would do it to take a
kid home.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Right, that's different. Now they do a neutral cord. Now
that game would be played at you know whatever the
town center, right, yeah, whatever that name is now. But
for them, like I'm gonna say, I'm gonna like combine
my pen years in my Coolgate years. Colgate was very good,
Like we were, you know, one hundred ken poum or
one hundred and fifteen kN poms. So you're probably if
(39:48):
you're a top twenty team, you're probably gonna win that game.
But you know, the spread swings a little bit because
you're playing on the road, and if you lose that game,
it wasn't a big enough loss that it made sense
for you if you wont yeah, you're supposed to remember
you lose that game. Like that's that even though the
numbers say it doesn't hurt you, it's the mistique. I think.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
I wish there was a way where they could do
like a some sort of like I don't know the
computer or whatever, but they like you have to play
one game a year where you put your name in
the hat and then it just draws it and just
be random.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
That's great, right, I love it.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
It just be random. But you know, I like, I'm
trying to think. We played played a home and home
with TC when I was at Notre Dame. Do we
play anywhere? Put that Indiana? We got smoked paid Xavier
this back when they played in the CINCINNATAI Gardens and
we beat them. That was a huge win. We played
Loyola of Maryland and beat them. They were not very good.
(40:53):
That was a weird schedule thing that had beat There
had to be somebody we were recruiting or something. We
literally played on the road to.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Low of Maryland's Yeah, that doesn't.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Crazy crazy, But the other thing is like once you
get into college basketball, like that's the stuff you love. Yeah,
playing in these arenas that are quarter full is blah.
I don't I much. I remember playing at TCU, I
remember playing at Xavier. I remember, uh you know, we
played at UNLB twice two years in a row on
(41:25):
the road. That was a great one. I pulled coach
setting aside, we're walking off we beat them two years
in row, and I said, Coach, I don't believe the
team at our levels ever played road games against one
opponent two consecutive years. Like you love Vegas that much?
He's like, son Billy Beno couldn't organize his fist fight.
(41:47):
I was dying. I was dying. Oh shit, I was like, okay, noted.
Was it your senior year. You guys lost Oakland State? Yeah, yes,
at the Garden right at the TV at whatever was
called back then, the Fleet Center maybe or Boston Boston Garden, whatever.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
But yeah, yeah, that was That was probably our best
team when I was a senior. We had an awesome
old team at the time, and then we had a
couple of young guys, like a sophomore Tim Begley, that
was pretty good. So we were we were super excited.
We were we were like the trendy pick that was
a six to eleven game, and and we actually love
(42:30):
the draw. I'm not gonna lie. When it came out,
we're like, this is awesome. We wanted to play Syrus.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
We got Syracuse second game too.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
We wanted Syracuse first round. That's how crazy were because
they played zone and you could not a zone that
they would have smoked us. I don't know they would
have to come out of the zone, I think, but we.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Were Malcahima State was up. That was the national change
was up seventeen at halftime.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
Again, yes, but anyway we got we got that drum like,
oh awesome. They haven't won a road game all year.
Like they're young, they're they you know, they play kind
of a grinded out style. And then we got in
the game and Tony Allen I think was able to
guard three of us at one time. And Victor Williams
little point guard. I don't know if you remember one
of it. He just like we had no chance of
(43:11):
keeping him in front.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
So between these so freaking quick, so cool. That was
so my senior year. He was his red shirt year. Okay, okay,
And I mean like now he would throw a ball
at least twice a practice that would hit you know
that now they have the rotating boards, but back then
they had the little plastic boards, and he would just
throw a ball to nobody when it hit the boards.
(43:33):
And uh, he was definitely a mid range guy more longer,
but he was. I mean, without any question, I guard
Alan Everson. He's the quickest dude I've ever tried to.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
I believe I would say the same. I never guarded Ai,
but I had no chance to keeping victory, but I
was pretty good defensive player. No chance, no chance. That
was a good game. I mean, it went back and forth.
I think they ended up they ended up winning by
a lot, but it was like a two possession game
with like three minutes left when they made free throws
and we couldn't hit a shot. So disappointing, Like strangely enough,
(44:02):
we had we went three of my four years and
we never won, and I I kind of am disappointed
with that because we had some monster teams. We had
really good teams, and we never could get the either
the matchup or the playing at our peak in the tournament.
We just could never get it done. And it's like,
just looking back, it still haunts me that we couldn't
get it done.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Do you like the ivy league having a tournament now.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
I love it. I love it. I wish we were
all eight teams, honestly. And now I'm in the UAA
in Division three, which is the only Division one, two
or three conference that does not have a tournament, and
I'm pushing and pushing a tournament, but logistically it's a
little bit more difficult in our league. But we had
my junior year, we tied, so in the ivy's back then,
(44:44):
when there was no tournament, if you tied, it didn't
matter the tie breakers. You had a tournament. So we
tied with there was a three way tie with US, Princeton,
and Yale, so Princeton and Yale played first, and then
the winner played US in the finals, so you kind
of had a mini tournament. And I just remember that
chanceampionship game that we played Yale to see who's going
to go to the tournament was electric. It was ridiculous,
(45:05):
and I was like, why would people not want this?
So I'm glad they do it now. There's nothing like
a conference tournament. It's just it's so fun, especially at
the lower levels, where the winner it's like winning in
losing out right, and there's just so much.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
The other side to it, though, is like, if you
win your league, and especially the IVY league's a double
round robin, right, so you play everybody twice. If you
win your league, why do you have to go beat
everybody again?
Speaker 2 (45:33):
Because I believe that the team that should go is
the team that's playing the best in March. So if
you started two and two and this happened to Penn
a couple of years after, or maybe it was the
year after our graduated, they started owing two and it
was like, boo, they're done, but they weren't. They might
have been the best team in the league, but you
just it's a really hard holder to dig out of.
(45:56):
And again I'm not saying that it's not warranted. Whoever
wins the regular season is the best team in the league.
I'm just saying there's something to be said for a
tournament style. You lose, you go home, you win, you're
in come to play. It's what March madness is all
about to a degree. And yeah, you might not always
have the best representative of your league, but playing that
(46:20):
tournament where the stakes are high, the crowds into it,
everybody understands what's going on. It's just it's fun. And
I feel the same way right now in the UAA.
Now ua is a multi bid league, so it's a
little bit different, but it's still the tournament is just
so fun. You watch these games in March of these
lower levels and the gym's past. I love when the
host hosts and the gym's packed and the I like.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
That as well. I think that's I think that's the
appropriate reward for for a winning your league right at
the home game. Yes, no, I like like the Patriot
League has that. I've always always, always loved that.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
It's just so hard to win in Hamilton in March.
Like you know, I think Boston knocked us off three years,
but it's probably a fifteen or you know, close to
twelve to fifteen game winning streak, and it's just there
hasn't really been a close game because we packed the
We packed the house and the fans were crazy. It's
a small gym, and it's just it's a really fun
atmosphere that you don't always get in a fourteen game
(47:17):
regular season, even when it's a big game.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
One last thing about Penn. You know, things are so
different now, right Teams practice in the summer. They practice
the summer obviously had summer tours as well, you have
individual workouts. I really doesn't have any of that, still
doesn't have any of that. What was your what was
your your internships when you're at Penn.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
So my freshman and sophomore summer, I stuck around Philly,
which there's nothing like Philly summers, at least when I
was there, because what would happen is you get the
guys from Drexel, the guys from Temple, the guys from
Saint Jose, they'd all come and we'd play pick up.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
So you didn't everybody play pick up? Didn everybody play
pick up at Drexel, like, well, when I was there.
I was there one summer. I think it was for
Maccabi and uh there was the big run was at
drex left.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
It rotates. I remember playing at Drexel sometimes, I remember
playing at Penn. And the great thing is is if
you didn't have ten like some the way I got
better between my freshman and sophomore years was like king
of Court, playing against guys like Ashley Howard and Lamar
Palmer who was on our team. Uh, and again they
(48:32):
would kicking my butt. But I learned and learned and
just got better, and that's how my defense got better.
That's how my ability to get by got better. But
just all summer just playing against the local Philly guys.
We'd have runs with all different type players, you know,
different schools, pros would come back. So it was great,
it was It was a really good experience. And then
junior summer, I got an internship in New York City
(48:56):
and that was a fun summer too. That was a
little bit different of an experience. But because you're working
a lot of hours and then I just play.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
I mean, how did you manage playing ball?
Speaker 2 (49:06):
So I found pickup games wherever I could. That summer
was a little bit different. Like pretty much every summer
I worked on my game. You know, you're getting shots up,
you're working on different things. That summer I was just
competing like I didn't really I didn't really work on
too many skills. Like I just found games and I
used to play. There's like a game at a little
(49:28):
little gym like near Houston and Thompson, and then there
was I used to get I used to go to
the Nayak and play there with a lot of the
x ivy IVY guys and pros. So I'd lift there
and play there and just find like wherever I can
find games. I tried to just get and get out
and play.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
What was your internship?
Speaker 2 (49:47):
I worked for Merrill Lynch in a rotational program where
you sit on a desk for six weeks, then you
rotate it. Not six weeks, probably, uh probably it was
probably eight week's total, so probably two or three weeks
at a time, and you're basically on an eight week interview,
so you're not doing a whole lot, but you're always,
(50:10):
you know, on edge because you're trying to get the
job for the next year. Sure, that was that was
but it was fun like it. I loved it. I
loved it. It's strangely enough, I stayed in the NYU
dorms with one of my teammates and you know, you're working,
you're having a blast. You're twenty twenty one years old,
living in the city. It was fun. It was It was.
(50:31):
It was. It was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
I mean the I mean the the the actual the walls,
the actual job, the Wall Street job.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
So as you like, you're not you, you weren't allowed
to have any real responsibilities, right, You can't trade, you
can't talk to client. You know, you can't really do
anything because you're not certified. So in essence, you're the
go get guy, right like, hey, I need a coffee,
Go get me a coffee. I need lunch, Go get lunch.
That that's like your main responsibilities. But on top of that,
(50:59):
you're trying to learn. You're trying to connect, and you're
trying to show everyone how hard work you are and
how smart you are, and without being annoying. Like I
was in the opposite. You know, I was also working
on Wall Street and having interns, and you don't want
somebody sitting next to you asking a million questions, but
you also want somebody you don't want them just sitting
there doing nothing. You have to find a balance. So
(51:22):
that was always a tricky thing, is Okay, how can
I like show that I am inquisitive and want to learn,
but not be too annoying, because you know how annoying
people are when they sit next to you, so you know,
so that was that was basically what you're trying to
do is just meet people network, have them like you,
show that you can do the job and do it
well and are a hard worker. So that's always the
(51:44):
advice I give when people do these internships.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
That's it for part one of Coach KLASKI wait tea here,
how the NYU job came to be and what it's
like for him to uh to be a head coach
for the first time. Oh yeah, and by the way,
like all of these intricate stories about how how Colgate
got it going, how they become so dominant in the
(52:10):
Patriot League, all that's upcoming in the next episode. Reminded
of the Doug Goatlib shows daily three to five Eastern time,
twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Thanks so much for listening. I'm Doug Gotlieb. This is
all ball
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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