First, Doug explains how to fix the unwatchable NBA All-star Game. then, he finishes up his extended conversation with former Bears Director of Player Personnel Josh Lucas to discuss taking the Bears job, why the front office drafted Mitchell Trubisky over Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson, the ups and downs of the Chicago experience, when he knew he needed to seek help for his prescription drug addiction, and his search for a second chance and redemption personally and professionally.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, welcoming up, dog gotli. This is all ball and
you're about to hear part three.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's Josh Lucas an ununbelievable tale of a guy who
grew up really tough background in Ohio.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Some abuse.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Uh, it's just just again like if you listen to
part one and part two, that's tough. But then somehow
made it to Harvard as a football player, got injured,
never really played, became just a grunt in the NFL,
and worked his way all the way up to direct
(00:44):
your player personnel with Chicago Bears. But that's not where
the story ends, and we'll get to all of that
in part three. Let me quickly give you a little
hoop here because we are coming out of the All
Star break and before we get to like talking about
the teams and who's actually going to win and who's
actually any good or whatever, like, how do we reconcile?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Maybe not we, but I don't know, is we? How
do you reconcile the fact that he also has a joke?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So how do we talk about the Ulscar game when
I think everybody who loves basketball just use it as
a complete and total fucking joke, right, Like dude.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I actually do get it. Eighty two games, a lot
of road trips, no matter how much it's We are
staying at great hotels, we are flying on private planes.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And this is not yesterdayear.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
But most of these guys are playing far less than
players played five years ago, ten years ago, definitely.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Fifteen, twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
The conditions are better, the treatment is better, and so okay,
the time off is too short, and like part of
it is a lot of these guys they're so corporate
now that when they play their last game, they immediately
for this week they fight to Indianapolis and they have
meetings and they do things with sponsors, and they have
photo shoots. They jam it all in to like two
(02:15):
or three days, and then they're like, yeah, if I
play a game, I'm just exhausted and I want okay,
So let's figure out a better way to do it.
And I think I figured that All Star weekend is
Pro Bowl and NBA all start with okay, and like, look,
if if you want our time off, everything is a
(02:38):
give and take. Everything is given take. You can't just
do the take and take. You got to do the
given ta Okay, So if you want a longer stretch
of time off for a break than a couple of things.
One you're gonna have to commit to playing more of
the games, and two we're gonna have to jam pack
some of these games together on both sides of the break.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It's doable, but that's the way to do it. And
so what I would.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Propose is you play the All Star Game, you coincide
it with the Pro Bowl, whatever activities there are, and
then that week which is Super Bowl week after the
you know, I go. I know that the NFL has
been alternating, you know where they go one week before
the Super Bowl and then two weeks for the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
When the two weeks for the Super Bowl Pro Bowls
play in the middle, the NFL should just keep.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It at one week in the middle. Or you can
do it when the NFL does the one week and
then the Pro Bowl is afterwards, the Pro Bowl games
or whatever or afterwards. That's when the All Star break
is to the NBA same time, and you give the
stars of the NBA.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You give them the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Off, right, give them that whole week off, Give them
that whole week off, or given the week if the
Pro Bowls before that give that week off the Pro
Bowls after that, you give them the week after the
Super Bowl off.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You get, you give them like a legit like can
they break?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
That's fine, But then what you can't do is like, hey,
now we can't be complaining about playing hard in the
All Star Game.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You know, now we can't.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We just can't do that because look, I've never taken
it seriously, but you can't take it as even an
unseerious basketball team like the Globetrotters play more competitive and
more compelling.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Games than the NBA. No, it's awful.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And I said this on radio, and I mean it, like,
you know what leadership is. It's sorely missing.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
From Lebron James.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I get it, he's thirty nine. He don't want to
play hard now, you know, but this has been a trend.
And you know, where is the NBA star that's able
to get guys to just play? I mean, it's is
it really that hard to play a little bit defense
and we can get other guys in here. You won't
play for two three four minute stretches and then we
(05:00):
can sub you out.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You're not going to get hurt.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Like that whole thing is so stupid. But what you
do is you turn off people instead of turning them on.
And you also have to remember that right now the
NBA is they're negotiating their next media rights deal. So
you're at you know, NBC and Peacock, You're at ESPN
(05:24):
and you're trying to, you know, put things on Disney
Plus you're at Amazon. You're sitting there going like you
guys don't even want to fucking be here or play hard,
want nothing to do with anything. Nobody wants to be
in the dunk contest, like why why would you do this?
And why would anybody watch? And why would I invest
billions of dollars hoping that the ad sales will continue
(05:45):
to pick up when you got a product that they
almost stumb their nose at what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And here's a.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Saying you can use, which I don't. I'm not quoting anybody.
I just I was actually working out one day and
I came up with it. But I'm sure somebody said
it before. Never complain where you from, where you make
your money. And look, we're all guilty.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
If you're in the media, if.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
You do a podcast or you're doing radio, you know
you shouldn't do. You shouldn't complain about either meeting with
a potential client, talking to sales or reading their ads.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Do you know why?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's the lifeblood of what you do, right, Like if
you're we have a lot of this with with college
coaches and complaining about players, administrators, a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
They don't like to do media stuff. They don't like
to do things at boosters like, hey, guess what, that's
what pays all that pays your salary.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
They never complain where you get paid. And if you
the NBA, if you haven't figured out that you're you're
work is a volume play. A volume play because they
don't rate individually all that well. But eighty two games
with thirty thirty teams, you can pool those ratings and
(07:17):
you can sell it for billions of dollars. But if
you only play fifty, it's a lot harder because, I mean,
what's the lifeblood of the NBA or professional sports gambling
and television? Well, nobody wants to watch it if the
stars aren't playing, And how can you bet on it
if you don't know who's playing. But you know what
(07:37):
the NBA does, they can plain where they make their money.
It's a mistake and it's not like it's going to
bring down the league. But it's the reason that the
European players have taken over the league. Thirty percent of
the NBA is European, is because they're not about the
(07:59):
stuff that we're about.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
They're not usually about.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
The glitz and the gland. They don't do the walk
in and have their own clothing design. They just go
out there and fucking hoop and kick our ass paske theball,
positionless basketball. They don't have the speed and athleticism, but
they got the they got the guile and the toughness.
I mean, Giannis can't shoot, he's been the NBA's MVP.
(08:25):
Jokic can't move. He's been the NBA's MVP, and the
finals MVP. So is Giannis. Don't get me wrong, they're
six ten, six eleven, whatever, but they're not about those things.
Our guys are about things not pertain to basketball, all
of them, but many of them about things not pertain
to basketball. And then they complain from.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
When they get paid. Let's get to part three.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Here's Josh Lucas. What's that like to get that You
get that job and you have this secret and now
you're also not that you're in the building every day,
right Whereas when you're a scout, you got to your
own thing, just get your work done. Nobody says nothing
to nobody. Now you've got to be in every day
(09:13):
and you're an executive, terrifying.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
I remember having tears in my eyes on the flight
on the way there to sign the contract, knowing that,
you know, in the back of my mind, I knew
that I needed to stop, but I wasn't quite sure
how I was going to stop. And then once I
(09:37):
got there and that job started to roll, that's when,
like you think you're busy as an area scout, now
you're a personnel director. You're trying to manage people and
you're trying to get all this work done.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
For me.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And it got worse.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
So I needed more medication to make sure I was
getting everything done. So I'm fighting this demon of I
need to stop, and so I kept telling myself, I'll
stop after the draft, you know, once we get some
time down, I'll stop. And I just kept fighting that
demon for it was two and a half years until
(10:17):
after the draft in twenty seventeen. You know, I just
got to the point where it was it was hard
to function. My boss clearly knew that I needed help,
and they they they saved my life. But you know,
Ryan Pace and John Tarpey, the security director of the
Chicago Bears, came to my house and they had an
(10:39):
intervention and said hey, and and I wanted help. I
didn't fight it. In the very next day, I was
in treatment. And that's how you know, that's that's you know,
the only on once you're fully addicted, it's death institution
(11:00):
of jail.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Like no one stops on their own.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
No one just wakes up one day and kicks a habit,
especially in an opioid habit like that.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
And so for me, I.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Was fortunate enough that you know, I'd never gotten any
trouble and obviously I'm still here, that I had people
around me that cared about me and knew I was
struggling and wanted to get me help. And that the
knock on my door on uh, I'll never forget. It
was about ten pm at night, and they came in
(11:30):
and made sure that there was nothing in the house
and came and picked me up the next morning and
took me to treatment.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Treatment. In May of twenty seventeen, I was it was
probably a total of six day weeks total.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
You know, I was a week and locally here in
a detoc center I was. I was away in Austin
Tech for about thirty five days, and then I went
to a kind of an iop situation here for about
five or six weeks until we started back up work,
(12:09):
and so it was a total, right, it was a
total probably like six weeks for that first time.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
What is.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That like you should walk into work the first day
because you already had anxiety. No, you already had they
think they're a fraud.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Imposters roster syndrome out.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, you had that natural imposter syndrome. Now you come
back to work and you had to in your mind
think everybody thinks I'm a drug addict.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
But I think, right, how did you? How did you
deal with that?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
That's you know, the the amount of support that I
had when I was away from from obviously the people
inside the building top to bottom was amazing and and
obviously there was some nerves and and you're concerned.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
About how you're viewed, But the other side of the DOUG,
I was.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Just so relieved that I had gotten help and that
I wasn't controlled and I wasn't living, you know, day
to day being just you know, a prisoner of of
of trying to find medication to get through the day.
So when I got back to work, I was excited
to get going.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I was. I was I remember, you know, a feeling
that I got a true.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Second chance and and I knew that I was going
to be able to give more of my true self
and and I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Going to be, you know, operating with an arm tied
behind my back.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
So for me, it was it was more of like
I was excited to get back and get started, and
it's training camp, and you know, it's it was a
it was a good experience, you know, when we when
we got back to work.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
When you so and at that moment, the Bears are good,
all right, playoff team.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Twenty seventeen. So it was it was Coach Fox's third year.
We were kind of turning the corner a little bit.
But you know, obviously it was the first Mitch's first year,
Coach Fox's third year, and you know, we didn't have
a very successful season overall, but you know, obviously building
(14:35):
some important pieces on the defensive side of the ball,
and then obviously we're excited about the first year quarterback
and that falling off season is when we made some
changes and then had the very successful season in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Right, Okay, let's so let's let's do that. Let's let's
discuss the quarterback because that was kind.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Of a big draft.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Why Mitch? Why not Watson? And maybe more importantly one
of my homes for sure?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
So you know, I think for us, you know, just
from grade perspective, just to simplify it, the grades, the
highest grades on the two players were Mitch and Mahomes.
As far as like first round grades, guy, we'd be
willing to select, you know, in the top ten of
the draft. We just didn't have the grades on on
(15:29):
Deshaun from a collective standpoint in the building.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Did you know any of this other stuff?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Because when I talked to a couple of people, they're like,
till we researched it, we didn't know about any of
the other stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Was it strictly football? Was it?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
The character on all three guys were clean that you know,
I think, you know, you'd have to talk to each
person that evaluated them to you know, to get their
opinion on the player.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
I think for me.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I didn't think the instinctive offscript playmaking would be as transferable.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
As it ended up being into the NFL.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
You know, you know, you need to look at like,
you know, like the wow moments he had in college.
Can he do that consistently in the end in an
NFL setting when you're playing against NFL players. That was
the biggest question I had on personally, and obviously was
wrong because he came into the league and was still
able to perform, you know, at an exceptional level off
(16:26):
script making those incredible instinctive athletic plays.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay, and then what about Mahomes? What spook your Mahomes?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
So nothing, obviously, I wouldn't say anything spooked us on Mahomes.
I think it was just more of like being liking
Mitch better, and I think it was we actually tried
to play it safe.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
We felt we felt the floor for Mitch was higher.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
We felt the ceiling for Mahomes was Highler he had
a bigger upside, more physical traits. But we thought there
was less failure with Mitch. You know, with Mahomes coming
from an offense where that quarterback, that system had never produced,
you know, an NFL quarterback very same questions like Mahomes's tape,
the wow moments, like the no look throws, the throws
(17:17):
you know, outside the pocket, sixty yards down the field.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Can you really do that?
Speaker 4 (17:21):
In the NFL, where we thought Mitch was the more
safe option less chance of missing with the defense we
had building, I felt I think collectively we felt like,
let's just we can't miss this pick. And it's at
that conservativeness and not being aggressive ended up causing us
to miss on the pick. And obviously you know the
(17:43):
rest of the story. Mahomes not only can do the
offscript incredible paymaking stuff, but he's also amazing inside the pocket,
playing on time and playing within the rhythm of the offense.
Probably one of the best quarterbacks ever to do it.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
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Speaker 1 (18:09):
When did you know that Mitch.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
The the second year? You know, I think in the
and and Coach Naggies it was Mitch's second year, Coach
Naggie's first year, there was a lot of optimism. Still,
you know, we had the great year Mitch has had
a had a an improvement from his first year. You know,
(18:34):
we obviously went to the playoffs. The game we lost,
you know, you know, playoff game, he throws for three
hundred yards, he takes us down in a two minute situation,
sets us up for a game winning field goal, obviously
the double doink. And I thought there was some optimism
amongst the entire building even going into that offseason. But
(18:56):
then I would say in the third year when there
was more there was instead of another year of progression,
when I saw there was regression. And then you start
seeing the same issues show up over and over again,
because I think when you're as a staff and early
on you think he's going to improve from you. Okay,
(19:18):
he doesn't see things as fast. Well, he will as
he gets more time and as he has more experience
in the NFL. Well, when you're seeing those processing issues
in the third year show up over and over again,
that's when you start to, you know, get that feeling
in your stomach like, oh, this this isn't going the
way that we planned. And then obviously, when you're watching
(19:42):
the other two guys have the success, you know, for
me personally, coming home at night, every night and turn
on the TV and it's a pat Patrick Mahomes commercial.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
You're you know, like, that's hard. It's hard, you know,
I don't. I don't. I don't tell it any differently.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
I don't tell it any differently to anyone. I tell
tell the experience, you know, tell the story to like.
That's a that's a tough deal, you know, it's it's
the chance to get the first franchise quarterback in the
history of the Chicago Bears. Remake this you know, organization
that is so just you know, obviously historical and so
(20:19):
well known, but they've never had that guy. Knowing that
we had a chance to take that guy and it
was right underneath our fingertips. Not only is you know,
not even talking about how good Deshaun Watson is, but
like Patrick Mahomes not only is a great quarterback, it
might be the best quarterback ever to play the game.
(20:40):
And knowing that that was, you know, the decision we
made obviously caused a tremendous amount of you know, pain
and frustration and angry and every emotion you can think of.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Okay, considering your your own emotional issues, how you process that.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yeah, that was it was you know, my my biggest
thing when I got back to work was I thought
I was cured. Like I thought I was good. You know,
these are the few basic things I need to do
to you know, for me, it always comes down to
my mental health condition, Like I always have to make
sure my mental health is in check. When I feel
(21:27):
good mentally, like, I don't have any urge to use
any kind of substances or to self medicate and to
change the way I feel. And for me, I got
back to work, and I was working, and I was
going to meetings every day, and you know, I was
doing the things I needed to do, but I didn't
quite get everything. Like I kind of created my own program,
(21:49):
my own way of you know, staying mentally fit and
staying sober, but I wasn't doing the real work. And
all these pressures start to mount up again. It wasn't
just what was going on at work and us not
having the success that I thought we had, but same
stuff going on back home that's still is an unresolved
(22:10):
to this day. And you know, just in my personal life,
like things started to mount up and to pile up,
and I would didn't reach out for help the way
I needed to you know, this is three years in
in December of twenty and twenty one is when I
(22:31):
is when I relapsed.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And but now that's twenty twenty. So that's where are
we in COVID because COVID was.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Too twenty right?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Did that exacerbate it? Did that make it worse?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
No, COVID was you know, for me, didn't change you know,
my chot. I thought personally from a work standpoint, like
probably the draft that I felt like I knew the
most and like, man I could I wish I could
make every pick in this draft because we just got
(23:09):
set home and alls we did was watch film.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I was just in my house.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
You weren't traveling to pro days, you weren't doing nearly
the amount of you.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Know, combine.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Actually it was after the combine, but like the amount
of stuff that takes you away from your office and
takes you away from the actual film time. So for COVID,
for me, it was you know, a time to just
football grind tape. And I wouldn't say that had a
big impact on you know, where I was mentally or
you know, how it affected sobriety or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
What was what take me through the relapse.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So it did. I was December eighth.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
I believe we were playing you know, that season was
just not a great season.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
We had drafted justin fields.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
We had started out the season playing pretty well, and
then and you know, around mid season, it started to
look as far as our future with the Chicago Bears,
it started to look.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
A little more bleak. I was really having a hard
time dealing.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
With some stuff at home going on with my dad
and my brother, and instead of reaching out for help
and and and doing the things I knew that could
help me, you know, feel at peace and be in
a good place, I started to have that urge again
(24:33):
to change the way I feel, to make myself feel better.
And we played the Arizona Cardinals and it was a dreary,
nasty day and Soldier Field just one of those games
where we did everything possible to lose the game instead
of doing everything possible to win the game. And I
(24:55):
just remember driving home that night and made the fatal
mistake of making phone.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Call, and uh it started a.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Two to three week you know, it was almost three
weeks of heavy pain pill use, and and I felt
it right away and knew, you know, it was going
in a direction that could get really serious, really fascinated,
and and you know, December eighteenth, I called in and
(25:26):
uh talked to our HR people with the bears, and said,
you know, I need to get help right away.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Did they did they know? Did they already know?
Speaker 4 (25:36):
I'm sure people, I'm sure people knew. I'm sure people
could sense that something was going on with me in
the building. You know when when when you know you're
you're under the influence, you know, of that type of medication,
obviously you're gonna act different and speak different. And you know,
(25:56):
I'm sure people were aware, but you know.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
It was.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
I'm proud of myself that I asked for help. And
obviously it's it's heartbreaking that the people I let down
and that I didn't do the right thing the first
time and just get help before the relapse happened. But
I knew I couldn't let it go on and risks
the things that could have potentially happened if I would
have kept going. So yeah, that December eighteenth, twenty twenty one,
(26:26):
is when I called in and said, yeah, I need
to get help.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I don't I It's interesting how you look at it
about people you let down I think obviously you don't
want to relapse. But again you talked about the three options.
You're much better off choose the option of getting help
than you are the other two options when you're when
you're so addicted to something so okay. So then what
was that rehab process?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Like, you know, obviously I knew.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Either way, you know, you know, I was in in
jeopardy of you know, not being employed with the Bears anymore,
and and I knew I needed time. That's that's the
one thing I dug that I can remember. It's just
like like I need to figure this out because this
can never happen again. So, you know, I went away
(27:19):
and got help, and you know, by we were only
two or three weeks from season's end, and the season
ended and and our general manager, you know, was fired,
and so I just kind of once I got out
of treatment, I just I just kind of stayed at
home and they waited for the new general manager to
(27:41):
get hired, and then they made the the you know,
they made all the changes on the personnel staff, and
and the Bears were just absolutely unbelievable making sure I
was okay, making sure I had everything I needed, and
and for me. That was the point I decided, you know,
(28:01):
it was it was just time to step away and
just take a year off, make sure that I figure
this out and and get everything under control so when
I re entered the work world and get on with
my life, that I'm in a position where this this
just you know, won't happen again and I have just
(28:23):
a much better.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
A foundation underneath me. So that was.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
It was you know, heartbreaking obviously to see people get
let go, and it was you know, knowing that you know,
I had let a lot of people down. But as
far as timing goes, it was, it was it was
good timing for me to just kind of step away
and take some time away from work.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
When did you feel like you because you're I feel
like you're very different this time, Like it's it's a
When did you feel like that change really took place?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
You know, it.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Wasn't as quick as as.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I probably had hoped for. Really for me, last summer
was when I.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Really started to I feel like, get both components, you know,
as far as accepting things in my life that that
I can't change and control, and and and knowing how
to show up, you know, in my family situation that
(29:39):
really helped stabilize, you know, from a mental health standpoint,
and then from a sobriety standpoint, really understanding you know
that there's a there's a spiritual path, and there's a
service component too, to the whole you know, to the
program that I totally before and really felt started to
(30:04):
feel connected in a much different way last last summer,
to the point where it was like, I can't believe
I've waited, Like I can't believe it took me this
long to get to this point in my life. And
I don't know why it took as long as it did,
(30:24):
and and and you know how I got on, you know,
this path. But the one thing that gave me though,
is a real sense of purpose of man, I can
help a lot of people. Mental health brought me to
my knees where there was no way I could see
a path where I could live a serene, peaceful life.
(30:48):
Drug addiction brought me to my knees where there was
no way I could even envision like waking up and
living my life without the use of some kind of
substance to make me feel okay.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Like I didn't think any of those things.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Were possible, and now I can sit here and tell
you that both those things are entirely possible if you
just reach out, ask for help, and do the work.
You know, there's two components of it. You got to
ask for help, and then you got to you got
to make sure you're doing your end of the bargain.
You know, I'm put in the work in every day
and that's what my life will be for the rest
(31:26):
of my life, is making sure I'm I'm fit spiritually
and and and fit mentally, mentally and physically.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
And I can control that.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
That's the beautiful thing of all this is that that
is the one thing I can control. I can't control
my family situation, you know, I can't control who's going
to hire me or not hire me going forward. But
I know how I can show up every day and
feel good and make sure that anyone struggling, whether it's
mental health or substance abuse, that I can I can
(31:57):
be a resource for them on not only.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
What to do, but to show them that it does work.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
And you can feel like a completely different person if
you ask for help and do the work.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
There is a there's a real component there to the
and I know you're doing Analyst work or the NBC
affiliate in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I know you're doing some work with some NFL teams,
but there has to be.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
At least a portion of for your anxiety or just
the reality that sharing it with me and open forum,
does that hurt your ability to get back into the
NFL even though when cleaning SOB, you're clearly good at
your job and you're experienced and like all of those things.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
So I appreciate you joining me. How do you process that?
How do you process that?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Like you want to help people, You want to share
this so they understand like your mistakes, your successes, failures.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
On the other hand, you also want to get back
in the league. How you trusting?
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Yeah, it's it's obviously, like many things in my life,
something I've just had to come to complete acceptance with.
No only thing I can control is you know, how
I take care of myself and how I show up
every day.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Anyone that hires me.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Going forward, you know, obviously, you know they need to
know about my past and need to know about my history,
and I'm very open about that, and it's obviously scary,
you know, to think that I can finally be at
this point in my life where I could really help
an NFL team out, where I could really help you know,
(33:46):
any network that is looking for people to talk about football.
And at no point in my life I've ever felt
more free mentally and physically where I can contribute and
I might not get might not be able to, but
that's just that's that's just the reality of the situation.
And if that happens, you know, there'll be other areas
(34:06):
in my life where I can show up and you know,
move on and and you know it's I can't be
identified by just being a person who worked in football.
I would love the opportunity, you know, I think it
will happen, and I'll be able to.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Really be able to contribute and help out a team.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Going forward, the next right thing will happen for me,
and and maybe it is and and something and more
of a service you know, related job where it's whether
it's teaching or educating or or helping out people that
are struggling with similar issues as me.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I'm okay with that. I'm totally okay with that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
My perspective would be being incredibly valuable to an NFL team,
not just because of football knowledge, but because you're a
real dude, with real issues that you really addressed, and
we all have.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Them be down.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Some become you addictions that can dramatically change life. Some
are just by leave below the surface that people do
a better job of trying, buying, trying different ways, you know,
to to kind of evolve out of.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
So that'd be my perspective.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
But again that's because I'm a fan of yours and
a friend of yours, and I see that only is positive.
I do know that there are people in this world
that you know, they won't trust now, just won't. You know,
they just think that ecatic and it is a life,
lifelong thing and they would prefer, you know, somebody.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Who didn't didn't have that.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
The problem is that are people that you think don't
have that that do and you just haven't learned about it,
and they haven't figured it out just yet.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
What you said, I totally agree.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
There's regardless of what I try to do professionally, there's
going to be people in that industry that just aren't
even going to give it, given it a thought, to
give me an opportunity because of my past. And you know,
I completely we know that that is the case, and
that's true, But I also know that there's people in
(36:04):
every industry that will be more open minded and as long.
The biggest thing for me is people need to see
me continue to live this way and establish the trust
factor with me that that I'm for real and what
I'm saying, and that I'm passionate about not only my
(36:26):
own you know, health and well being, but passionate about
having an opportunity. Like I went through Harvard, I went
through three different NFL teams feeling like I was an
armhind behind my back, feeling like like this is like
thirty percent of myself. So I know I'm going to
(36:48):
be able to give one hundred percent of myself to
to whoever it is going forward and and whatever that is,
you know, is youet to be determined, but I'm confident
it's going to be. It's something that I'm going to
be able to not only contribute but also help out
a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
One professional, one personal. Let's at professional.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
So you've been a part of two different draftsm drafted
quarterbacks of the Bears build the scene limited success, but
it feels likely they'll move on again new regime to
two very early first round picks and a quarterback heavy draft.
So again professional perspective, you're in that room, Drake may
(37:35):
feel safe. Caleb Williams looks like Mahomes, but they're and
again the same system by the way, for Kayleb Williams
as Mahomes, right exactly, but they're different people and the
sport is different. But again, you like you learn from
the past. So if it was you and they go, Josh,
(38:01):
how much you really think.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Away with it?
Speaker 6 (38:05):
Yeah, I'm going with the guy that has the skill
set that's so unique and different, and I'm going to
trust that the things that on the tape that you
might be concerned.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
With, you're going to be able to coach and develop.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
So to me, Caleb just has this skill set that
you know, with the the amount of offscript playmaking that's
being featured in our league right now at the quarterback position,
I think he's the most unique guy in this draft
class and he'd be the player that I would select.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You know, is it an over correction because of the
Homes For me?
Speaker 4 (38:42):
You know, it's funny because I'm obviously talking about this
a lot and local media stuff that I'm doing, and
I think about that all of myself, Like you know,
am I am I so paranoid of my own myths.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
On on Patrick and DeShawn.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
And that is the area that I really missed on
that that I'm just being more safe now and going
that way. But you know, the more I watch both
those guys, I I don't feel like it's an over correction.
I feel like he's got this feel and instinct not
only as a passer Doug, but like his running ability.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
That's what people talk about Mahomes all the time.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
And he's not the most athletic quarterback, but he's the
best decision maker and has the best feel for when
to run and when to steal a first down with
his legs. And you see some of that with with
with Caleb. Not that Drake's not an unbelievable prospect in
his own right. I do agree with you, like, and
I've talked to some people in the media and that
(39:43):
that have told me here like I just want the
safe guy. Drake looks like an NFL quarterback. He feels like,
I just want the safe guy. And I tell him
all the time, I'm like, we wanted the safe guy too,
and he got aspired, So it's it'll be an interesting
decision for them. I do think they will take a
quarterback and and let Justin move on to another team.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
And if I had to, if I had to bat
my money on it.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Right now, I think majority of the teams feel that
that Caleb's the number one guy.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
You're you are in a new relationship, You are in
a healthy place personally. For somebody who is in a
relationship with somebody who has anxiety or even to the
level of having an addiction, Like from the other side,
(40:36):
what about your current relationship, how how do you handle
that if you're the spouse, the girlfriend, the boyfriend, the
significant other of somebody who's going through things.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
It's a great question. And I think anyone that.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Is in a relationship with someone who struggles with the
mental health situation or or substance abuse, they have to
do their work as well, and they have to put
in a lot of work if they're going to be
willing to make the relationship work and really understand that,
(41:12):
they need to be able to show up and support,
you know, their partner. But they're not going to be
able to control and fix it.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You know they're not.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
You know, if your partner's got a major depression issue
or a major drinking habit. There's nothing you can do
to make it better. There's nothing you can do to
make them to drink less or to worry more. You
just have to show up, be love and supporting, and
know that your partner has to be the one that
(41:41):
has to want to change and get better and do
the work. And I am extremely fortunate that I'm in
a relationship with a woman who is a life coach
professionally and has taught me more personally in these last
two years. It's taught me as much as I've learned,
(42:01):
you know, with my personal doctors and therapists and and
and and meetings and so forth. So I'm very fortunate
that she has a very good understanding of both situations.
She knows it's on me to make sure I'm doing
the work. If she feels that I'm slipping in any way,
(42:22):
she doesn't overreact, she doesn't try to correct, she makes
sure that I'm aware of it, and and she knows
that I'm the one that has to do my part
to not only make sure that I'm doing okay for myself,
but that I can show up for her and her
needs as well. So it's been a blessing just being
(42:45):
in meeting the person that I met at the time
I met her, very serendipitous, very fortunate.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I couldn't be.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
More grateful for, you know, this relationship that I'm currently
the end. And like I said, I can't, I don't
want to go on too much about it, but I
feel like I got really lucky.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Christmas said, hard time, good time. What's it like for
you this season?
Speaker 4 (43:12):
You know, you know we, you know we it all
comes back to my dad and what's going on at home.
You know, my brother, you know, we we were thick
as thieves and we did everything together. You know, we
would you know, my memory, Doug, and I think you'll
appreciate this is, you know, we would play our basketball
(43:33):
game at the hy you know, somebody would VHS tape it.
We'd come home. The first thing we would do is
throw it in and then we would chart our points,
assists and rebounds like that was us. That's what we
did and everything. And then we went in two completely
opposite directions, which has been you know, extremely painful part
(44:01):
of my life and still to this day currently is
he's struggled with addiction of his own. You know, he's
he's got major mental health issues. He's currently sitting in jail,
and you know, the future doesn't look very bright and
he's he's you know, put a major strain on our
(44:24):
family and my relationship with wanting to be at home
and wanting to be with my dad, and my dad
at seventy three years old, you know, is you know,
he's got dementia and the early stages of it and
isn't moving around as well. So there's this want for
me to be there more and more for him, But
it's very hard for me to be there.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I'm not gonna lie to like, it's very hard.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
For me to walk into my childhood home and even
to sit in there because of all the pain and
sadness that still sits in the house. And that's been
a huge part of this whole story, figuring out how
to show up for my dad and do what I can.
My oldest half brother, Mike I talked about the very beginning,
(45:08):
who's the firefighter in Beechwood, Ohio outside of Cleveland, has
really stepped up and and and been a major help
to be around my dad more as well, especially when
my brother's been sitting in jail for the last several months.
So it's hard I'm not gonna lie like you know,
any anything that involves family when it comes to holidays, Thanksgiving.
(45:32):
You know that when I know, like this is a
huge time where families are getting together, and I know
what's going on in my personal family situation right now.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yeah, I'm sure you can hear it in my voice.
It's it's it's painful and sad, but I am grateful
that I can show up now.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
In a way that I couldn't show up when I
was abusing drugs, and and I can be there and
talk to my dad every single day on the phone
and make sure he needs anything whenever he needs anything.
And I was just home, you know, last week and
got to see him. So it's it's a tough time
and I just got to make sure that I do
(46:16):
what I need to do to be able to show
up for my dad when when he needs me.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Listen, I hope you understand how proud I am to
call your friend because a lot of the parts of
this story I knew some of, not all of, And
then the more I learned, the more I'm just honored
to know you.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
It's reality to you because so many of us have problems.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Myself included, but to push through, to fight it, to
do the work is really honorable. And then to express
the people that you're doing the work, and that's yet
you're not perfect, and all that you've gone through, all
that you felt is I mean, it's the stuff of
real men, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
So I hope you understand.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
From my heart to yours, I just want to express
a ton of love and gratitude for our friendship, but
also respect for.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Who you are, what you've been through, what you've accomplished.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
And I think anybody knows, you know, there's there's definitely
going to be a chapter three. Yeah, so, and I
think you know, this is a good way to get
into the new year, you know, where get it all
out and we get ready and kick ass. Knowing that,
I think I think it's hey, look man, we there
(47:41):
are triggers in all of our lives for things and
and finding ways to operate and ad a friend. And
you say the social jiu jitsu, but I think it's
like personal jiu jitsu, right, like using things against you
to become your strength. And I think it's a fascinating way,
you know, to look at life. But what you're fighting
(48:01):
through is tougher than any football game, and I actually
think it makes you better at your job what eventually
you get your next job.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
And so your friendship means a ton to me, and
the opportunities you've given me this fall to talk sports
and talk ball with you on Thursdays is something I'll
forever be grateful for.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
And even this opportunity here to share my story, I'm great.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Well, listen, I'll just be honest with you. I have
lots of people that are friends much they want to
come on a radio show all the time. They're just
not good at what they do. So, yes, it's because
of our friendship, but it's also because I kind of
think you're awesome at football and expressing it and helping
(48:49):
me understand it.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
And so that's where that one comes from.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
That one's not as much out of friendship as you think.
It's more a I just want to soak up all
that knowledge.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
All right, brother, will listen.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
I'm so happy you're in a good relationship, and thanks
so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Thanks, I appreciate you, all right.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Myn Thanks to Josh Lucas, what an interesting life and
I'm Josh, will join us anytime. Kind of update this
on where he stands with with everything, you know, with
handling his addictions, with his life with football, and with
what's next. And I hope you enjoyed it. I really
appreciate Josh joining us, and of course how a lout
(49:35):
of basketball talk at the start. Remember Doug Gotlieb show
airs daily three to five Eastern.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Twelve too specific.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
You also can get an hour podcast which is totally
unfiltered about all sports.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Pretty cool. Just type in Doug Gottlieb, where have we
got this podcast? You can probably get that one as well.
I'm Doug godlie This is all all
Hey, welcoming up, dog gotli. This is all ball and
you're about to hear part three.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It's Josh Lucas an ununbelievable tale of a guy who
grew up really tough background in Ohio.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Some abuse.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Uh, it's just just again like if you listen to
part one and part two, that's tough. But then somehow
made it to Harvard as a football player, got injured,
never really played, became just a grunt in the NFL,
and worked his way all the way up to direct
(00:44):
your player personnel with Chicago Bears. But that's not where
the story ends, and we'll get to all of that
in part three. Let me quickly give you a little
hoop here because we are coming out of the All
Star break and before we get to like talking about
the teams and who's actually going to win and who's
actually any good or whatever, like, how do we reconcile?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Maybe not we, but I don't know, is we? How
do you reconcile the fact that he also has a joke?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So how do we talk about the Ulscar game when
I think everybody who loves basketball just use it as
a complete and total fucking joke, right, Like dude.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
I actually do get it. Eighty two games, a lot
of road trips, no matter how much it's We are
staying at great hotels, we are flying on private planes.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
And this is not yesterdayear.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
But most of these guys are playing far less than
players played five years ago, ten years ago, definitely.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Fifteen, twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
The conditions are better, the treatment is better, and so okay,
the time off is too short, and like part of
it is a lot of these guys they're so corporate
now that when they play their last game, they immediately
for this week they fight to Indianapolis and they have
meetings and they do things with sponsors, and they have
photo shoots. They jam it all in to like two
(02:15):
or three days, and then they're like, yeah, if I
play a game, I'm just exhausted and I want okay,
So let's figure out a better way to do it.
And I think I figured that All Star weekend is
Pro Bowl and NBA all start with okay, and like, look,
if if you want our time off, everything is a
(02:38):
give and take. Everything is given take. You can't just
do the take and take. You got to do the
given ta Okay, So if you want a longer stretch
of time off for a break than a couple of things.
One you're gonna have to commit to playing more of
the games, and two we're gonna have to jam pack
some of these games together on both sides of the break.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
It's doable, but that's the way to do it. And
so what I would.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Propose is you play the All Star Game, you coincide
it with the Pro Bowl, whatever activities there are, and
then that week which is Super Bowl week after the
you know, I go. I know that the NFL has
been alternating, you know where they go one week before
the Super Bowl and then two weeks for the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
When the two weeks for the Super Bowl Pro Bowls
play in the middle, the NFL should just keep.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It at one week in the middle. Or you can
do it when the NFL does the one week and
then the Pro Bowl is afterwards, the Pro Bowl games
or whatever or afterwards. That's when the All Star break
is to the NBA same time, and you give the
stars of the NBA.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
You give them the Super Bowl.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Off, right, give them that whole week off, Give them
that whole week off, or given the week if the
Pro Bowls before that give that week off the Pro
Bowls after that, you give them the week after the
Super Bowl off.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You get, you give them like a legit like can
they break?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
That's fine, But then what you can't do is like, hey,
now we can't be complaining about playing hard in the
All Star Game.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
You know, now we can't.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We just can't do that because look, I've never taken
it seriously, but you can't take it as even an
unseerious basketball team like the Globetrotters play more competitive and
more compelling.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Games than the NBA. No, it's awful.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
And I said this on radio, and I mean it, like,
you know what leadership is. It's sorely missing.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
From Lebron James.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I get it, he's thirty nine. He don't want to
play hard now, you know, but this has been a trend.
And you know, where is the NBA star that's able
to get guys to just play? I mean, it's is
it really that hard to play a little bit defense
and we can get other guys in here. You won't
play for two three four minute stretches and then we
(05:00):
can sub you out.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You're not going to get hurt.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Like that whole thing is so stupid. But what you
do is you turn off people instead of turning them on.
And you also have to remember that right now the
NBA is they're negotiating their next media rights deal. So
you're at you know, NBC and Peacock, You're at ESPN
(05:24):
and you're trying to, you know, put things on Disney
Plus you're at Amazon. You're sitting there going like you
guys don't even want to fucking be here or play hard,
want nothing to do with anything. Nobody wants to be
in the dunk contest, like why why would you do this?
And why would anybody watch? And why would I invest
billions of dollars hoping that the ad sales will continue
(05:45):
to pick up when you got a product that they
almost stumb their nose at what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And here's a.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Saying you can use, which I don't. I'm not quoting anybody.
I just I was actually working out one day and
I came up with it. But I'm sure somebody said
it before. Never complain where you from, where you make
your money. And look, we're all guilty.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
If you're in the media, if.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
You do a podcast or you're doing radio, you know
you shouldn't do. You shouldn't complain about either meeting with
a potential client, talking to sales or reading their ads.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Do you know why?
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's the lifeblood of what you do, right, Like if
you're we have a lot of this with with college
coaches and complaining about players, administrators, a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
They don't like to do media stuff. They don't like
to do things at boosters like, hey, guess what, that's
what pays all that pays your salary.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
They never complain where you get paid. And if you
the NBA, if you haven't figured out that you're you're
work is a volume play. A volume play because they
don't rate individually all that well. But eighty two games
with thirty thirty teams, you can pool those ratings and
(07:17):
you can sell it for billions of dollars. But if
you only play fifty, it's a lot harder because, I mean,
what's the lifeblood of the NBA or professional sports gambling
and television? Well, nobody wants to watch it if the
stars aren't playing, And how can you bet on it
if you don't know who's playing. But you know what
(07:37):
the NBA does, they can plain where they make their money.
It's a mistake and it's not like it's going to
bring down the league. But it's the reason that the
European players have taken over the league. Thirty percent of
the NBA is European, is because they're not about the
(07:59):
stuff that we're about.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
They're not usually about.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
The glitz and the gland. They don't do the walk
in and have their own clothing design. They just go
out there and fucking hoop and kick our ass paske theball,
positionless basketball. They don't have the speed and athleticism, but
they got the they got the guile and the toughness.
I mean, Giannis can't shoot, he's been the NBA's MVP.
(08:25):
Jokic can't move. He's been the NBA's MVP, and the
finals MVP. So is Giannis. Don't get me wrong, they're
six ten, six eleven, whatever, but they're not about those things.
Our guys are about things not pertain to basketball, all
of them, but many of them about things not pertain
to basketball. And then they complain from.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
When they get paid. Let's get to part three.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Here's Josh Lucas. What's that like to get that You
get that job and you have this secret and now
you're also not that you're in the building every day,
right Whereas when you're a scout, you got to your
own thing, just get your work done. Nobody says nothing
to nobody. Now you've got to be in every day
(09:13):
and you're an executive, terrifying.
Speaker 4 (09:16):
I remember having tears in my eyes on the flight
on the way there to sign the contract, knowing that,
you know, in the back of my mind, I knew
that I needed to stop, but I wasn't quite sure
how I was going to stop. And then once I
(09:37):
got there and that job started to roll, that's when,
like you think you're busy as an area scout, now
you're a personnel director. You're trying to manage people and
you're trying to get all this work done.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
For me.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
And it got worse.
Speaker 4 (09:56):
So I needed more medication to make sure I was
getting everything done. So I'm fighting this demon of I
need to stop, and so I kept telling myself, I'll
stop after the draft, you know, once we get some
time down, I'll stop. And I just kept fighting that
demon for it was two and a half years until
(10:17):
after the draft in twenty seventeen. You know, I just
got to the point where it was it was hard
to function. My boss clearly knew that I needed help,
and they they they saved my life. But you know,
Ryan Pace and John Tarpey, the security director of the
Chicago Bears, came to my house and they had an
(10:39):
intervention and said hey, and and I wanted help. I
didn't fight it. In the very next day, I was
in treatment. And that's how you know, that's that's you know,
the only on once you're fully addicted, it's death institution
(11:00):
of jail.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Like no one stops on their own.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
No one just wakes up one day and kicks a habit,
especially in an opioid habit like that.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
And so for me, I.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Was fortunate enough that you know, I'd never gotten any
trouble and obviously I'm still here, that I had people
around me that cared about me and knew I was
struggling and wanted to get me help. And that the
knock on my door on uh, I'll never forget. It
was about ten pm at night, and they came in
(11:30):
and made sure that there was nothing in the house
and came and picked me up the next morning and
took me to treatment.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Treatment. In May of twenty seventeen, I was it was
probably a total of six day weeks total.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
You know, I was a week and locally here in
a detoc center I was. I was away in Austin
Tech for about thirty five days, and then I went
to a kind of an iop situation here for about
five or six weeks until we started back up work,
(12:09):
and so it was a total, right, it was a
total probably like six weeks for that first time.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
What is.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That like you should walk into work the first day
because you already had anxiety. No, you already had they
think they're a fraud.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Imposters roster syndrome out.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, you had that natural imposter syndrome. Now you come
back to work and you had to in your mind
think everybody thinks I'm a drug addict.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
But I think, right, how did you? How did you
deal with that?
Speaker 4 (12:48):
That's you know, the the amount of support that I
had when I was away from from obviously the people
inside the building top to bottom was amazing and and
obviously there was some nerves and and you're concerned.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
About how you're viewed, But the other side of the DOUG,
I was.
Speaker 4 (13:11):
Just so relieved that I had gotten help and that
I wasn't controlled and I wasn't living, you know, day
to day being just you know, a prisoner of of
of trying to find medication to get through the day.
So when I got back to work, I was excited
to get going.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I was. I was I remember, you know, a feeling
that I got a true.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Second chance and and I knew that I was going
to be able to give more of my true self
and and I wasn't.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Going to be, you know, operating with an arm tied
behind my back.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
So for me, it was it was more of like
I was excited to get back and get started, and
it's training camp, and you know, it's it was a
it was a good experience, you know, when we when
we got back to work.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
When you so and at that moment, the Bears are good,
all right, playoff team.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Twenty seventeen. So it was it was Coach Fox's third year.
We were kind of turning the corner a little bit.
But you know, obviously it was the first Mitch's first year,
Coach Fox's third year, and you know, we didn't have
a very successful season overall, but you know, obviously building
(14:35):
some important pieces on the defensive side of the ball,
and then obviously we're excited about the first year quarterback
and that falling off season is when we made some
changes and then had the very successful season in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Right, Okay, let's so let's let's do that. Let's let's
discuss the quarterback because that was kind.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Of a big draft.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
Why Mitch? Why not Watson? And maybe more importantly one
of my homes for sure?
Speaker 4 (15:07):
So you know, I think for us, you know, just
from grade perspective, just to simplify it, the grades, the
highest grades on the two players were Mitch and Mahomes.
As far as like first round grades, guy, we'd be
willing to select, you know, in the top ten of
the draft. We just didn't have the grades on on
(15:29):
Deshaun from a collective standpoint in the building.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Did you know any of this other stuff?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Because when I talked to a couple of people, they're like,
till we researched it, we didn't know about any of
the other stuff.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Was it strictly football? Was it?
Speaker 3 (15:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (15:45):
The character on all three guys were clean that you know,
I think, you know, you'd have to talk to each
person that evaluated them to you know, to get their
opinion on the player.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
I think for me.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
I didn't think the instinctive offscript playmaking would be as transferable.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
As it ended up being into the NFL.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
You know, you know, you need to look at like,
you know, like the wow moments he had in college.
Can he do that consistently in the end in an
NFL setting when you're playing against NFL players. That was
the biggest question I had on personally, and obviously was
wrong because he came into the league and was still
able to perform, you know, at an exceptional level off
(16:26):
script making those incredible instinctive athletic plays.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Okay, and then what about Mahomes? What spook your Mahomes?
Speaker 4 (16:34):
So nothing, obviously, I wouldn't say anything spooked us on Mahomes.
I think it was just more of like being liking
Mitch better, and I think it was we actually tried
to play it safe.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
We felt we felt the floor for Mitch was higher.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
We felt the ceiling for Mahomes was Highler he had
a bigger upside, more physical traits. But we thought there
was less failure with Mitch. You know, with Mahomes coming
from an offense where that quarterback, that system had never produced,
you know, an NFL quarterback very same questions like Mahomes's tape,
the wow moments, like the no look throws, the throws
(17:17):
you know, outside the pocket, sixty yards down the field.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Can you really do that?
Speaker 4 (17:21):
In the NFL, where we thought Mitch was the more
safe option less chance of missing with the defense we
had building, I felt I think collectively we felt like,
let's just we can't miss this pick. And it's at
that conservativeness and not being aggressive ended up causing us
to miss on the pick. And obviously you know the
(17:43):
rest of the story. Mahomes not only can do the
offscript incredible paymaking stuff, but he's also amazing inside the pocket,
playing on time and playing within the rhythm of the offense.
Probably one of the best quarterbacks ever to do it.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio
dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search f s
R to listen live.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
When did you know that Mitch.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
The the second year? You know, I think in the
and and Coach Naggies it was Mitch's second year, Coach
Naggie's first year, there was a lot of optimism. Still,
you know, we had the great year Mitch has had
a had a an improvement from his first year. You know,
(18:34):
we obviously went to the playoffs. The game we lost,
you know, you know, playoff game, he throws for three
hundred yards, he takes us down in a two minute situation,
sets us up for a game winning field goal, obviously
the double doink. And I thought there was some optimism
amongst the entire building even going into that offseason. But
(18:56):
then I would say in the third year when there
was more there was instead of another year of progression,
when I saw there was regression. And then you start
seeing the same issues show up over and over again,
because I think when you're as a staff and early
on you think he's going to improve from you. Okay,
(19:18):
he doesn't see things as fast. Well, he will as
he gets more time and as he has more experience
in the NFL. Well, when you're seeing those processing issues
in the third year show up over and over again,
that's when you start to, you know, get that feeling
in your stomach like, oh, this this isn't going the
way that we planned. And then obviously, when you're watching
(19:42):
the other two guys have the success, you know, for
me personally, coming home at night, every night and turn
on the TV and it's a pat Patrick Mahomes commercial.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
You're you know, like, that's hard. It's hard, you know,
I don't. I don't. I don't tell it any differently.
Speaker 4 (19:56):
I don't tell it any differently to anyone. I tell
tell the experience, you know, tell the story to like.
That's a that's a tough deal, you know, it's it's
the chance to get the first franchise quarterback in the
history of the Chicago Bears. Remake this you know, organization
that is so just you know, obviously historical and so
(20:19):
well known, but they've never had that guy. Knowing that
we had a chance to take that guy and it
was right underneath our fingertips. Not only is you know,
not even talking about how good Deshaun Watson is, but
like Patrick Mahomes not only is a great quarterback, it
might be the best quarterback ever to play the game.
(20:40):
And knowing that that was, you know, the decision we
made obviously caused a tremendous amount of you know, pain
and frustration and angry and every emotion you can think of.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Okay, considering your your own emotional issues, how you process that.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Yeah, that was it was you know, my my biggest
thing when I got back to work was I thought
I was cured. Like I thought I was good. You know,
these are the few basic things I need to do
to you know, for me, it always comes down to
my mental health condition, Like I always have to make
sure my mental health is in check. When I feel
(21:27):
good mentally, like, I don't have any urge to use
any kind of substances or to self medicate and to
change the way I feel. And for me, I got
back to work, and I was working, and I was
going to meetings every day, and you know, I was
doing the things I needed to do, but I didn't
quite get everything. Like I kind of created my own program,
(21:49):
my own way of you know, staying mentally fit and
staying sober, but I wasn't doing the real work. And
all these pressures start to mount up again. It wasn't
just what was going on at work and us not
having the success that I thought we had, but same
stuff going on back home that's still is an unresolved
(22:10):
to this day. And you know, just in my personal life,
like things started to mount up and to pile up,
and I would didn't reach out for help the way
I needed to you know, this is three years in
in December of twenty and twenty one is when I
(22:31):
is when I relapsed.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And but now that's twenty twenty. So that's where are
we in COVID because COVID was.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Too twenty right?
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Did that exacerbate it? Did that make it worse?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
No, COVID was you know, for me, didn't change you know,
my chot. I thought personally from a work standpoint, like
probably the draft that I felt like I knew the
most and like, man I could I wish I could
make every pick in this draft because we just got
(23:09):
set home and alls we did was watch film.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
I was just in my house.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
You weren't traveling to pro days, you weren't doing nearly
the amount of you.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Know, combine.
Speaker 4 (23:19):
Actually it was after the combine, but like the amount
of stuff that takes you away from your office and
takes you away from the actual film time. So for COVID,
for me, it was you know, a time to just
football grind tape. And I wouldn't say that had a
big impact on you know, where I was mentally or
you know, how it affected sobriety or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
What was what take me through the relapse.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
So it did. I was December eighth.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
I believe we were playing you know, that season was
just not a great season.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
We had drafted justin fields.
Speaker 4 (23:56):
We had started out the season playing pretty well, and
then and you know, around mid season, it started to
look as far as our future with the Chicago Bears,
it started to look.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
A little more bleak. I was really having a hard
time dealing.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
With some stuff at home going on with my dad
and my brother, and instead of reaching out for help
and and and doing the things I knew that could
help me, you know, feel at peace and be in
a good place, I started to have that urge again
(24:33):
to change the way I feel, to make myself feel better.
And we played the Arizona Cardinals and it was a dreary,
nasty day and Soldier Field just one of those games
where we did everything possible to lose the game instead
of doing everything possible to win the game. And I
(24:55):
just remember driving home that night and made the fatal
mistake of making phone.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Call, and uh it started a.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Two to three week you know, it was almost three
weeks of heavy pain pill use, and and I felt
it right away and knew, you know, it was going
in a direction that could get really serious, really fascinated,
and and you know, December eighteenth, I called in and
(25:26):
uh talked to our HR people with the bears, and said,
you know, I need to get help right away.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Did they did they know? Did they already know?
Speaker 4 (25:36):
I'm sure people, I'm sure people knew. I'm sure people
could sense that something was going on with me in
the building. You know when when when you know you're
you're under the influence, you know, of that type of medication,
obviously you're gonna act different and speak different. And you know,
(25:56):
I'm sure people were aware, but you know.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
It was.
Speaker 4 (26:01):
I'm proud of myself that I asked for help. And
obviously it's it's heartbreaking that the people I let down
and that I didn't do the right thing the first
time and just get help before the relapse happened. But
I knew I couldn't let it go on and risks
the things that could have potentially happened if I would
have kept going. So yeah, that December eighteenth, twenty twenty one,
(26:26):
is when I called in and said, yeah, I need
to get help.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I don't I It's interesting how you look at it
about people you let down I think obviously you don't
want to relapse. But again you talked about the three options.
You're much better off choose the option of getting help
than you are the other two options when you're when
you're so addicted to something so okay. So then what
was that rehab process?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Like, you know, obviously I knew.
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Either way, you know, you know, I was in in
jeopardy of you know, not being employed with the Bears anymore,
and and I knew I needed time. That's that's the
one thing I dug that I can remember. It's just
like like I need to figure this out because this
can never happen again. So, you know, I went away
(27:19):
and got help, and you know, by we were only
two or three weeks from season's end, and the season
ended and and our general manager, you know, was fired,
and so I just kind of once I got out
of treatment, I just I just kind of stayed at
home and they waited for the new general manager to
(27:41):
get hired, and then they made the the you know,
they made all the changes on the personnel staff, and
and the Bears were just absolutely unbelievable making sure I
was okay, making sure I had everything I needed, and
and for me. That was the point I decided, you know,
(28:01):
it was it was just time to step away and
just take a year off, make sure that I figure
this out and and get everything under control so when
I re entered the work world and get on with
my life, that I'm in a position where this this
just you know, won't happen again and I have just
(28:23):
a much better.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
A foundation underneath me. So that was.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
It was you know, heartbreaking obviously to see people get
let go, and it was you know, knowing that you know,
I had let a lot of people down. But as
far as timing goes, it was, it was it was
good timing for me to just kind of step away
and take some time away from work.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
When did you feel like you because you're I feel
like you're very different this time, Like it's it's a
When did you feel like that change really took place?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
You know, it.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Wasn't as quick as as.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
I probably had hoped for. Really for me, last summer
was when I.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
Really started to I feel like, get both components, you know,
as far as accepting things in my life that that
I can't change and control, and and and knowing how
to show up, you know, in my family situation that
(29:39):
really helped stabilize, you know, from a mental health standpoint,
and then from a sobriety standpoint, really understanding you know
that there's a there's a spiritual path, and there's a
service component too, to the whole you know, to the
program that I totally before and really felt started to
(30:04):
feel connected in a much different way last last summer,
to the point where it was like, I can't believe
I've waited, Like I can't believe it took me this
long to get to this point in my life. And
I don't know why it took as long as it did,
(30:24):
and and and you know how I got on, you know,
this path. But the one thing that gave me though,
is a real sense of purpose of man, I can
help a lot of people. Mental health brought me to
my knees where there was no way I could see
a path where I could live a serene, peaceful life.
(30:48):
Drug addiction brought me to my knees where there was
no way I could even envision like waking up and
living my life without the use of some kind of
substance to make me feel okay.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Like I didn't think any of those things.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
Were possible, and now I can sit here and tell
you that both those things are entirely possible if you
just reach out, ask for help, and do the work.
You know, there's two components of it. You got to
ask for help, and then you got to you got
to make sure you're doing your end of the bargain.
You know, I'm put in the work in every day
and that's what my life will be for the rest
(31:26):
of my life, is making sure I'm I'm fit spiritually
and and and fit mentally, mentally and physically.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
And I can control that.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
That's the beautiful thing of all this is that that
is the one thing I can control. I can't control
my family situation, you know, I can't control who's going
to hire me or not hire me going forward. But
I know how I can show up every day and
feel good and make sure that anyone struggling, whether it's
mental health or substance abuse, that I can I can
(31:57):
be a resource for them on not only.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
What to do, but to show them that it does work.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
And you can feel like a completely different person if
you ask for help and do the work.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
There is a there's a real component there to the
and I know you're doing Analyst work or the NBC
affiliate in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I know you're doing some work with some NFL teams,
but there has to be.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
At least a portion of for your anxiety or just
the reality that sharing it with me and open forum,
does that hurt your ability to get back into the
NFL even though when cleaning SOB, you're clearly good at
your job and you're experienced and like all of those things.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
So I appreciate you joining me. How do you process that?
How do you process that?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Like you want to help people, You want to share
this so they understand like your mistakes, your successes, failures.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
On the other hand, you also want to get back
in the league. How you trusting?
Speaker 4 (33:06):
Yeah, it's it's obviously, like many things in my life,
something I've just had to come to complete acceptance with.
No only thing I can control is you know, how
I take care of myself and how I show up
every day.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Anyone that hires me.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Going forward, you know, obviously, you know they need to
know about my past and need to know about my history,
and I'm very open about that, and it's obviously scary,
you know, to think that I can finally be at
this point in my life where I could really help
an NFL team out, where I could really help you know,
(33:46):
any network that is looking for people to talk about football.
And at no point in my life I've ever felt
more free mentally and physically where I can contribute and
I might not get might not be able to, but
that's just that's that's just the reality of the situation.
And if that happens, you know, there'll be other areas
(34:06):
in my life where I can show up and you know,
move on and and you know it's I can't be
identified by just being a person who worked in football.
I would love the opportunity, you know, I think it
will happen, and I'll be able to.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Really be able to contribute and help out a team.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
Going forward, the next right thing will happen for me,
and and maybe it is and and something and more
of a service you know, related job where it's whether
it's teaching or educating or or helping out people that
are struggling with similar issues as me.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I'm okay with that. I'm totally okay with that.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
My perspective would be being incredibly valuable to an NFL team,
not just because of football knowledge, but because you're a
real dude, with real issues that you really addressed, and
we all have.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Them be down.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Some become you addictions that can dramatically change life. Some
are just by leave below the surface that people do
a better job of trying, buying, trying different ways, you know,
to to kind of evolve out of.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
So that'd be my perspective.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
But again that's because I'm a fan of yours and
a friend of yours, and I see that only is positive.
I do know that there are people in this world
that you know, they won't trust now, just won't. You know,
they just think that ecatic and it is a life,
lifelong thing and they would prefer, you know, somebody.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Who didn't didn't have that.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
The problem is that are people that you think don't
have that that do and you just haven't learned about it,
and they haven't figured it out just yet.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
What you said, I totally agree.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
There's regardless of what I try to do professionally, there's
going to be people in that industry that just aren't
even going to give it, given it a thought, to
give me an opportunity because of my past. And you know,
I completely we know that that is the case, and
that's true, But I also know that there's people in
(36:04):
every industry that will be more open minded and as long.
The biggest thing for me is people need to see
me continue to live this way and establish the trust
factor with me that that I'm for real and what
I'm saying, and that I'm passionate about not only my
(36:26):
own you know, health and well being, but passionate about
having an opportunity. Like I went through Harvard, I went
through three different NFL teams feeling like I was an
armhind behind my back, feeling like like this is like
thirty percent of myself. So I know I'm going to
(36:48):
be able to give one hundred percent of myself to
to whoever it is going forward and and whatever that is,
you know, is youet to be determined, but I'm confident
it's going to be. It's something that I'm going to
be able to not only contribute but also help out
a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
One professional, one personal. Let's at professional.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
So you've been a part of two different draftsm drafted
quarterbacks of the Bears build the scene limited success, but
it feels likely they'll move on again new regime to
two very early first round picks and a quarterback heavy draft.
So again professional perspective, you're in that room, Drake may
(37:35):
feel safe. Caleb Williams looks like Mahomes, but they're and
again the same system by the way, for Kayleb Williams
as Mahomes, right exactly, but they're different people and the
sport is different. But again, you like you learn from
the past. So if it was you and they go, Josh,
(38:01):
how much you really think.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Away with it?
Speaker 6 (38:05):
Yeah, I'm going with the guy that has the skill
set that's so unique and different, and I'm going to
trust that the things that on the tape that you
might be concerned.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
With, you're going to be able to coach and develop.
Speaker 4 (38:19):
So to me, Caleb just has this skill set that
you know, with the the amount of offscript playmaking that's
being featured in our league right now at the quarterback position,
I think he's the most unique guy in this draft
class and he'd be the player that I would select.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
You know, is it an over correction because of the
Homes For me?
Speaker 4 (38:42):
You know, it's funny because I'm obviously talking about this
a lot and local media stuff that I'm doing, and
I think about that all of myself, Like you know,
am I am I so paranoid of my own myths.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
On on Patrick and DeShawn.
Speaker 4 (38:59):
And that is the area that I really missed on
that that I'm just being more safe now and going
that way. But you know, the more I watch both
those guys, I I don't feel like it's an over correction.
I feel like he's got this feel and instinct not
only as a passer Doug, but like his running ability.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
That's what people talk about Mahomes all the time.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
And he's not the most athletic quarterback, but he's the
best decision maker and has the best feel for when
to run and when to steal a first down with
his legs. And you see some of that with with
with Caleb. Not that Drake's not an unbelievable prospect in
his own right. I do agree with you, like, and
I've talked to some people in the media and that
(39:43):
that have told me here like I just want the
safe guy. Drake looks like an NFL quarterback. He feels like,
I just want the safe guy. And I tell him
all the time, I'm like, we wanted the safe guy too,
and he got aspired, So it's it'll be an interesting
decision for them. I do think they will take a
quarterback and and let Justin move on to another team.
Speaker 3 (40:06):
And if I had to, if I had to bat
my money on it.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
Right now, I think majority of the teams feel that
that Caleb's the number one guy.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
You're you are in a new relationship, You are in
a healthy place personally. For somebody who is in a
relationship with somebody who has anxiety or even to the
level of having an addiction, Like from the other side,
(40:36):
what about your current relationship, how how do you handle
that if you're the spouse, the girlfriend, the boyfriend, the
significant other of somebody who's going through things.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
It's a great question. And I think anyone that.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
Is in a relationship with someone who struggles with the
mental health situation or or substance abuse, they have to
do their work as well, and they have to put
in a lot of work if they're going to be
willing to make the relationship work and really understand that,
(41:12):
they need to be able to show up and support,
you know, their partner. But they're not going to be
able to control and fix it.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You know they're not.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
You know, if your partner's got a major depression issue
or a major drinking habit. There's nothing you can do
to make it better. There's nothing you can do to
make them to drink less or to worry more. You
just have to show up, be love and supporting, and
know that your partner has to be the one that
(41:41):
has to want to change and get better and do
the work. And I am extremely fortunate that I'm in
a relationship with a woman who is a life coach
professionally and has taught me more personally in these last
two years. It's taught me as much as I've learned,
(42:01):
you know, with my personal doctors and therapists and and
and and meetings and so forth. So I'm very fortunate
that she has a very good understanding of both situations.
She knows it's on me to make sure I'm doing
the work. If she feels that I'm slipping in any way,
(42:22):
she doesn't overreact, she doesn't try to correct, she makes
sure that I'm aware of it, and and she knows
that I'm the one that has to do my part
to not only make sure that I'm doing okay for myself,
but that I can show up for her and her
needs as well. So it's been a blessing just being
(42:45):
in meeting the person that I met at the time
I met her, very serendipitous, very fortunate.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I couldn't be.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
More grateful for, you know, this relationship that I'm currently
the end. And like I said, I can't, I don't
want to go on too much about it, but I
feel like I got really lucky.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Christmas said, hard time, good time. What's it like for
you this season?
Speaker 4 (43:12):
You know, you know we, you know we it all
comes back to my dad and what's going on at home.
You know, my brother, you know, we we were thick
as thieves and we did everything together. You know, we
would you know, my memory, Doug, and I think you'll
appreciate this is, you know, we would play our basketball
(43:33):
game at the hy you know, somebody would VHS tape it.
We'd come home. The first thing we would do is
throw it in and then we would chart our points,
assists and rebounds like that was us. That's what we
did and everything. And then we went in two completely
opposite directions, which has been you know, extremely painful part
(44:01):
of my life and still to this day currently is
he's struggled with addiction of his own. You know, he's
he's got major mental health issues. He's currently sitting in jail,
and you know, the future doesn't look very bright and
he's he's you know, put a major strain on our
(44:24):
family and my relationship with wanting to be at home
and wanting to be with my dad, and my dad
at seventy three years old, you know, is you know,
he's got dementia and the early stages of it and
isn't moving around as well. So there's this want for
me to be there more and more for him, But
it's very hard for me to be there.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I'm not gonna lie to like, it's very hard.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
For me to walk into my childhood home and even
to sit in there because of all the pain and
sadness that still sits in the house. And that's been
a huge part of this whole story, figuring out how
to show up for my dad and do what I can.
My oldest half brother, Mike I talked about the very beginning,
(45:08):
who's the firefighter in Beechwood, Ohio outside of Cleveland, has
really stepped up and and and been a major help
to be around my dad more as well, especially when
my brother's been sitting in jail for the last several months.
So it's hard I'm not gonna lie like you know,
any anything that involves family when it comes to holidays, Thanksgiving.
(45:32):
You know that when I know, like this is a
huge time where families are getting together, and I know
what's going on in my personal family situation right now.
Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yeah, I'm sure you can hear it in my voice.
It's it's it's painful and sad, but I am grateful
that I can show up now.
Speaker 4 (45:55):
In a way that I couldn't show up when I
was abusing drugs, and and I can be there and
talk to my dad every single day on the phone
and make sure he needs anything whenever he needs anything.
And I was just home, you know, last week and
got to see him. So it's it's a tough time
and I just got to make sure that I do
(46:16):
what I need to do to be able to show
up for my dad when when he needs me.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Listen, I hope you understand how proud I am to
call your friend because a lot of the parts of
this story I knew some of, not all of, And
then the more I learned, the more I'm just honored
to know you.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
It's reality to you because so many of us have problems.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Myself included, but to push through, to fight it, to
do the work is really honorable. And then to express
the people that you're doing the work, and that's yet
you're not perfect, and all that you've gone through, all
that you felt is I mean, it's the stuff of
real men, you know.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
So I hope you understand.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
From my heart to yours, I just want to express
a ton of love and gratitude for our friendship, but
also respect for.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Who you are, what you've been through, what you've accomplished.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
And I think anybody knows, you know, there's there's definitely
going to be a chapter three. Yeah, so, and I
think you know, this is a good way to get
into the new year, you know, where get it all
out and we get ready and kick ass. Knowing that,
I think I think it's hey, look man, we there
(47:41):
are triggers in all of our lives for things and
and finding ways to operate and ad a friend. And
you say the social jiu jitsu, but I think it's
like personal jiu jitsu, right, like using things against you
to become your strength. And I think it's a fascinating way,
you know, to look at life. But what you're fighting
(48:01):
through is tougher than any football game, and I actually
think it makes you better at your job what eventually
you get your next job.
Speaker 3 (48:08):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
And so your friendship means a ton to me, and
the opportunities you've given me this fall to talk sports
and talk ball with you on Thursdays is something I'll
forever be grateful for.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
And even this opportunity here to share my story, I'm great.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Well, listen, I'll just be honest with you. I have
lots of people that are friends much they want to
come on a radio show all the time. They're just
not good at what they do. So, yes, it's because
of our friendship, but it's also because I kind of
think you're awesome at football and expressing it and helping
(48:49):
me understand it.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
And so that's where that one comes from.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
That one's not as much out of friendship as you think.
It's more a I just want to soak up all
that knowledge.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
All right, brother, will listen.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
I'm so happy you're in a good relationship, and thanks
so much for joining me.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Thanks, I appreciate you, all right.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Myn Thanks to Josh Lucas, what an interesting life and
I'm Josh, will join us anytime. Kind of update this
on where he stands with with everything, you know, with
handling his addictions, with his life with football, and with
what's next. And I hope you enjoyed it. I really
appreciate Josh joining us, and of course how a lout
(49:35):
of basketball talk at the start. Remember Doug Gotlieb show
airs daily three to five Eastern.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Twelve too specific.
Speaker 2 (49:41):
You also can get an hour podcast which is totally
unfiltered about all sports.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Pretty cool. Just type in Doug Gottlieb, where have we
got this podcast? You can probably get that one as well.
I'm Doug godlie This is all all
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