In the second part of Doug’s interview with George Washington Head Coach Chris Caputo, they break down Kansas cutting down the nets against UNC, the Bill Self vs. Hubert Davis coaching matchup. They also discuss why he followed coach Larranaga to Miami from George Mason, recruiting the portal, and blending his own coaching philosophy with everything he’s learned along the way.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome in. It is ball ball, and we're here coming
off an unbelievable national church. That the kind of game
that I still kind of don't know what happened, right,
You don't know what now you know that thing gets
out of controling such a bit. So here's what I
want to do and bring back. He's the new head coach.
(00:28):
Word Washington. His thoughts. He coached against both these teams,
he saw the running against. So that for their due recap,
the national championship given some person prostitutes is a new
that coach George Washington. Yeah, well, um, I would say
we've never seen that before from Kansas last night. Um.
(00:50):
But then the gentleman who knows you right now saw
it from Kansas. Um. First, let me get to last
let me get to last night. Okay, uh what first?
What do you think of the first tex Yeah? I mean, um,
and I gotta be honest stuck. I was. I was
watching and returning text to people at the same time.
(01:12):
So when Kansas jumps out, UM, I I started to
feel like, Okay, they're they're they're in control and they're
playing you know, I uh what I thought, what I
thought might happen? Um, and then you know to Carolina
is I mean, the guards for Carolina have been so
(01:32):
um Mac has been like like the consistent one obviously,
but I think what's gotten Carolina at the point where
they were so good at the end of the year
is the consistency of guard play. As the season we're on,
they were making big plays, big shots off the dribble,
you know, a lot of freedom that that human I think,
to his credit, gave those guys to go, uh make
plays with the ball, and they were. They're both uh
(01:54):
skillful guys, they can make shots off the dribble, etcetera.
So you started to see some of that with Bacon
just coming back into the game, I think in the
first half ever foul and just being somewhat dominant, and
I'm thinking myself, Jesus, I mean, this is like their
best performance at the right time, you know, even though
they've been playing well, you know, and and and and
Kansas to the other side, that's that first half is
(02:16):
what it looked like against Kentucky where they weren't rebounding,
We're getting beasted on boards, and then they weren't getting
back defensively, and then they just they felt like they
all got spent off offensively. Christian Bron's driving to try
killing Wilson's driving the traffic, and they just look completely discombbedly.
And here's the similarity to the Kentucky game. I I
(02:38):
just to call it on on radio. Was at the
end of the first half. And I don't know if
he was I don't know if he was just trying
to figure out who could play and who couldn't, or
just trying to just take everybody out. But he had
like jail and cool. He he went emptied his bench.
Kind he was trying. Yeah, he was trying. He was looking.
It was just like pushing buttons a little bit um.
(03:00):
And I thought Carolina was playing, and I think Hubert
said it. Carolina was playing extremely hard too. When they
got down whatever it was, how many they all of
a sudden they not defensively and physically Yeah yeah, okay,
So what did you see? Obviously there's an energy change,
but what did you see schematically changed? What What do
you think Bill did adjustment wise in the second would
(03:22):
you notice differently? Yeah? You know, I and again a
preface this by saying, and I was texting a lot
during this time, you know, as you can imagine. But
one thing that stood out is Charles said at halftime
about uh, them going to McCormick and like that wasn't it.
That wasn't the answer, right, and so not not so
(03:44):
much in there. I thought their defense obviously picked it
up and they were able to get some things in transition.
They made a couple of threes that that were critical
to you know, cut the lead, cut the lead, cut
the leaders. But I thought late in the game I
felt really happy for David McCormick because I think they
kept going to him and obviously the huge bucket late
in the game, you know, after he missed it and
(04:04):
got it back, and his confidence level to go I
think it was. I think he may have missed and
rebounded it or they kicked it out and went back
to him, and then his confidence level to go back
to the hook. Like I'm like, damn like good for him,
because I think most guys would have said, oh, I
got it back, let me throw that spread that back
out and get it three. That game had some stuff
I've never seen before, right like puff throws up on
(04:25):
the court. I guess he oh man, he was good,
but he was good. And then all of a sudden
he got hit in the stomach and he like lost
his win and through he throws up on the court.
And then the crazy play where Kansas is up three.
They throw the ball into dewand the point guard who
steps out of bounds not once, but twice. I've never
(04:46):
seen that. I've never seen that ever. Especially it was
it was it was side out. It was it was,
it was. It was a deep side. Yeah. I've been
to a bunch of Bill's practices and a bunch of
Bill shot arounds. And one of the things he does
the shoot arounds. They they're very quick and what they do,
but he makes them practice when he calls odd angle inbounds,
(05:06):
you know, just like different spots so they know where
they're doing and to have a to have a kid
and he's it's only I was second year plane it,
but to step out about the point guard step out
about twice when you throw the ball into I don't
I don't want to see how. I don't see how
we couldn't have given the angle and the way where
he wants up catching it. It was like, yeah, it's
(05:28):
by the way he put in the cycle and play.
Did you see that? You know? Wi you know, everyone
calls it cyclone or whatever, like the old The Warriors
rant it. Fred Hoydberg ranted, I think I would say,
where you you kind of like enter it to the
wing and then it's uh, your biggest up high and
you set like a double back back screen. Okay. So
(05:49):
so so I didn't see that at the stouting power. No, no, no, no,
that it wasn't. That's an Arizona plate. I thought that. Okay.
So Patronik claims that that's his play that he had
with Sean Arizona, and everybody copied. I don't know power
power of the power vibers, but yeah, people, little people
(06:10):
called cyclone. Yeah, yeah. And I hadn't seen that all
you know, I mean not all year, because it's not
like we've watching them all year, but certainly in the
tournament and and you know, when we scouted them, I
never thought and I think McCormick got it blocked or
but I I'm watching it late in the game and
I'm like, oh, he put this in for like he
put it in for the game, Like damn, good for him. Yeah.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
(06:33):
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
Radio dot Com and within the I Heart Radio app
search f s R to listen live. Um, you've been
on that other sideline. Granted is an assistant coach, but
what's that like all of a sudden the momentum switches
like it did feel like Hubert I felt like he
(06:54):
was a little slow to react and call of time
out and try and try and slow that thing down.
But you've you've in there, right, you guys. It was
forty seven fifteen and it was McCormick show for the
He only played five minutes and the second half against
Guess what is that like in terms of you sitting
there wanting to grab coach and now and you you can't.
What's that like? Yeah? I mean I think Look, you know,
(07:18):
people talk a lot of times about adjustments, and you
know the problem is usually what leads up to that
is what turnovers and and miss shots like like we
had if you go back to our game, Um, probably
five open threes Doug like somewhat open, uh, some very
(07:42):
open where like the way to stop the bleeding was
to just make one or two of them, you know,
to keep it, to keep it like Okay, look, we
don't have to lead anymore, maybe they're up to Like
at one point, I think we were up to and
we had like two who opened threes in a row.
Then they took the lead and they go up forty
(08:04):
two and we've got um I won't name names because
I love my guys, so I'm not like trying to
call them out, but they had we had a wide
open one that would have gone like five. Now it's
a two possession game. The problem is when you miss
those shots and right and you start pressing in terms
of like, uh, maybe I'll drive the next one, yeah,
(08:26):
and then and then and then they turn you over
because they're playing hard. But and that's that's kind of
for us. We were up six with the ball to
start the half. We're one of the best teams in
the country and not turning the ball over, and uh,
we turn it over. They get a run out. And
I think in Kansas is case, they're so devastating and
transition as you know that if you if you make
(08:47):
one of those mistakes or there's a long rebound off
of miss or you know the other one is as
a point guard, you know, any time I always say
anytime little guys are at the rim, it doesn't go in.
It's you know, it's a layup, right, So so it's
it's hard to stop the bleeding. I think, you know,
you try to call time outs, you maybe try to
(09:08):
change your defense, maybe you try to put the ball
inside to sort of slow the game down a little bit.
But um, you know it's I mean, there's a reason
why the guys won, you know, his games or something
like he's a really good coach. Okay, so so so
now you have your first head job right now. It's
now you're calling a time match right now, you're making
(09:30):
those calls. What's interesting about Hubert is uh and you
know it from being in leagas law is they didn't
run any of the Carolina stuff. That's not much at all, Right,
I give credit. I mean it's unbelievable. Right, So I mean,
if you go back to when Roy was there, I
can have tould you everything they're running. Right, you got
a box set to go to their shuffle series, right,
(09:51):
everybody knows all their secondaries track out of the first
time out either drun the dribble or you know, it's
the same stuff. So it's it's one thing to be
a different voice in a different face. And to not
having coached before. So other than you go like, hey
we're gonna do a different way. Uh that that that
that's really okay. So how much of what you're gonna
(10:13):
do is what you want to do and how much
of it is will look, I think you gotta be yourself. Um.
So that's the first thing. I think that as we
talked about probably before, like you know, there's things that
are not going to change, right, but there there might
be things based on your personnel that would change. There's
things that you feel very comfortable teaching. I think it's
(10:33):
always better as a coach, right if sometimes the scheme
might be better, but if you're not as comfortable teaching it,
it's not gonna be as good as something that you're
comfortable teaching. The guys will absorb it better. And uh,
you know, in Hubert's case, I mean, he just deserves
so much credit for, um not changing for the sake
(10:53):
of changing, right, because that's not right. But it's very
difficult if it takes a lot of confidence and a
lot of know how, and his staff deserves a lot
of support. The players deserve a lot of credit for
being able to say, hey, we're gonna tweak some things
here that, you know, looking at our personnel, maybe we
feel like it's better for us. And then when they
were not I would say, not winning but early, and
(11:16):
I mean we beat them by twenty seven, and then
I think Wake got him pretty good right after. And yeah,
and uh, I remember Forbes text me because we had
beat Duke, and I think he was playing Duke next.
And then we beat Carolina and he says, hey, thanks
for like beating these historic programs by like in historic ways,
(11:38):
you know, like right before I play them, you know,
if I appreciate that, you know, And uh and so uh, yeah,
I mean he just deserves a lot of credit because again,
a lot of people, especially when you lose that Miami
by twenty seven, you lose that way, you may think
of yourself, Man, did I screw this up? And to
you know, for him to have doubled down on it,
I think they got better within it. It's certainly fit
(11:59):
their person know with manic. You know, Manic was such
a key for them. So I wish I could say
I'm gonna be that smart to do one or the other,
but I think we'll just could figure it out as
we go along. But it was to your point. I'll
give you you'll appreciate this as a basketball junkie, like
what you were saying about Carolina. Coach l used to
give a speech to the team and he said, Hey,
(12:20):
my last game in college was against Carolina. You know
my my our high school coach, played for Frank McGuire
at St. John's. I had coached at Virginia for seven
years against Carolina. At George Mason, you know, we played
Carolina a couple of times, including the n c A tournament. Uh,
you know, now I'm at Miami for X amount of years.
Like these are all the things they do, and you
(12:40):
just would write them up and say, we know, you know,
we know, we know what they're going to do. Now,
defending them, stopping them, you know, scoring on them, that's
a whole different deal, you know, but but we know
what they're gonna do. They're very systematic. You know. Ye
take me back, you're at George Mason. What was that
this acsion? Like, what was the decision like to lead
(13:03):
because he didn't remember, he didn't people were forgotten. It
wasn't like you went to the final four and then
he got the Miami offer and then he bolted. That
wasn't the way it took place, right, he stayed. What
was the decision like to leave? Yeah, I mean I
give him a lot of credit. Um, you know, we
we go back to the n c A Tournament in
two thousand eight. Um, we we lost in the championship
(13:25):
game in two thousands and seven and two thousand nine,
I went to an I t and two thousand nine,
two thousand and eleven. I don't think people are really
are best regular season team, Uh probably in uh in
c A history was in two thousand eleven with you know,
Luke Hancock as and uh you know, Ryan Pearson was
player a year in the league and Cam Long was
(13:47):
first team All League and we beat Villanova in the
first round and so you know when the season, um
what we los to Ohio State, uh in the in
the round the thirty two as Solinger and Craft and
those guys, and um, you know, I give coach a
lot of credit. And I just think he could have
stayed at George Mason forever and just been he could
(14:07):
have been Bob McKillop at at George Mason, you know,
and we were having a change in president and president
was a great he's since now passed Alan Merton, but
he's an unbelievable guy and so supportive and really coach
his best friend. And I think coach started to think
about those things. And um, I always wanted to coach
in the a CEC haven't been an assistant there. And
(14:27):
for me it was a wild time. Archie had offered
me the job to go to Dayton with him, and
I had really thought about it. I really believed in
arch and thought he would do a great job at Dayton,
and it was back then it was quite a bit
more money and uh, um, but I was sort of
leaning towards stating because we had a really good team
(14:48):
coming back. And then, believe it or not, the week
of sort of the Miami thing, I interviewed with coach Pettino,
Uh to go to Louisville, and then uh and if
you would coach Donovan to go to Florida And I
was literally on Florida's campus when coach Larnega took the
Miami job and uh, I was driving back from Gainesville
(15:09):
to the Orlando airport to fly to d C. My
bachelor party was that weekend. Believe it or not, we
were getting married in May, my wife Julie and I
and and uh. I remember Billy calling me and said, hey, I, UM,
I heard UM coach Larnea has taken Miami. And I'm like, man,
I don't I don't really know that. And then five
minutes later, like coach Larnega calls is you know, hey,
(15:31):
look if I if I take Miami, which I've been offered, uh,
this would be your situation. And I was like, all right, well,
I have a job no matter what. When I land
where it will be, you know, I have no idea.
And um, you know, as it turns out, you know,
I went to Miami that was like on a Wednesday,
went to Miami that Friday. It never really came back.
So what was a program like when you guys you know, Uh,
(15:56):
I'll give a lot of credit to UM coach Hath
and Histaffy. They we had a nice core of players.
Durant Scott who winds up being the defensive player of
the year, Kenny Kaju was an All Conference player. Um, Yeah,
Trey McKinney Jones who wanted up having a ten day
in the NBA. He was a great guy. H Julian Gamble,
(16:16):
who had been injured all of his career. He wound
up getting a sixty year for US and it was
a great players still playing in Europe. Um, so we
had a great core of players. And uh, I give
I give the staff credit, you know for that. Um. Obviously,
they had never had a winning season in the a
c C. Believe it or not, They've been in the
league about eight years. They had a five hundred year
that made the n c A Tournament, but they had
(16:38):
never had a winning season, and um, you know, there
were some things there that were you know, like I
think needed to be improved in terms of, you know,
the fan base and and things like that, a little
bit of apathy, what have you. But I thought coach
a Staff had done a good job of building the
roster to the point where, you know, as we looked
at it, you're like, all right, this is a team
that could have could have a chance to make the
(17:01):
n c A tournament, uh in the next year or two,
because they've got some pieces. And then obviously we get
Shane Larkin that summer and that changed everything. And the
Shane Mark, the Shane Makin thing. But he was he
was going to DePaul right, Yeah, he was actually at
de Paul believe it or not, that we had recruited
him at Mason. He was at De Paul and in
(17:21):
in summer school essentially gets there and for whatever reason,
I just you know, didn't didn't didn't like it wasn't comfortable.
Um you know, it was a little bit of homesick
because he you know, uh, Barry and Lisa had settled
in Orlando when Barry retired from playing baseball, and so, um,
you know, I think he felt like, man, if I
(17:42):
if I could go to a school in Florida that
was high major, you know, that would be great. Now
these guys that really believed and recruited me at George
Mason are actually in Florida at a high major school. So, um,
you we were able to Uh he called and I
mean it was like Donna chellel our president. She like
the day before school started. We had to go to
her and say, hey, you know, presidentialil like, is there
(18:04):
any chance we can get this guy in school? And uh,
they made it. They made it happen, and obviously the
rest is history because we had a nice core and
then we added the player of the year in the league.
When when when coaches take jobs and you just took
one and you just you discuss admissions. Okay, what are
those discussions really like? Is it? Is it? Hey, I'm
(18:26):
gonna need a favor and here's what what is the
favor within? What reason? Is it? How? How do you
how do you handle it? How do coach there? You know,
how do you handle that discussion with you with a guy?
Because there's like two sides too, right, Like you want
the job on the other hand, you know in the
back of your mind, like I can't winning this job
(18:48):
unless it's unless I'm I'm getting some help here, right,
How do you handle it? Hi? Coach Elhan? Yeah, I
think every institution is different, their their way of looking
at things. Um, I thought, George Mason we had a
good way in the sense that, you know, our admissions
director's philosophy was I don't want to give you like
slots like hey, you have exceptions, per se. I wanna
(19:11):
I want to discuss every student athlete and and let's
look at them and say, like, do we think they
can be successful here? Do do we think they can graduate?
And do we think that they you know, uh, you know,
can do a good job you know academically here? And
so each individual is different, right, and you evaluate those
people as they come. And I think from a coach
(19:32):
to standpoint, you try not have to bring anybody to
two admissions that you don't feel like, hey is serious
about graduating, Because if you get to the point where
you've brought a bunch of guys and they are struggling academically,
you're gonna lose credibility, you know, at the institutional level.
So for us like we we I mean we've graduated
everybody since two thousand and six that we've had other
(19:52):
than the guys who have gone pro early. So I
think you you build up some equity with your admissions
people to say, hey, anybody they bring, h uh, you know,
they've vetted in terms of, you know, how serious their
parents are about academics as you know, Dogum, it's not
like a lot of times when eighteen year olds coming
to school they need to understand the value of all
this stuff. But the supports there and everything like that.
(20:14):
But I think the biggest thing is making sure you
you bring people that you believe are going to be
successful at that place and and and some guys can
be successful here and not elsewhere, and some guys can
be successful elsewhere and not here. You know, what about
you as a recruiter and evaluator, the ability to understand
what an a C C player looks like as opposed
(20:35):
to what a CIA player looks like, and also a
factor in mind, like there's also tears to the a SEC.
You're gonna get the kid to do once unless he's
a secondary list or Carolina or whatever. You know, what's
that process like for you at that point in time
in your career. Yeah, I think there's a little bit
of fear, right You're trying to like, you know, think
(20:55):
to yourself, Man, I'm jumping up a level here. We
had a top twenty five team at George Mason, but
you know, I'm gonna have to really um figure it out,
you know, in terms of what what works, and uh,
you know what we found is is um And obviously
we recruit a couple of mcdonal's Americans at Miami and
a guy like Bruce Brown. It wasn't a mcdonals American
(21:16):
probably should have been. He was a fit with your guy,
and um, yeah, that's a great question. I mean I
think I always felt like in the a SEC there's
a one percenter list the guys that are just they
you know, the Jayson Tatums and Donovan Mitchell, the guys
that you know they're gonna be having their own sneakers
and stuff like that someday. And there's a couple of
(21:36):
those guys throughout ten years that were in the league,
and then I think you've got um everybody else. What
I found is is not that far off from each
other talent wise. The seriousness of approach to becoming a
really good player was the differentiator. You know, like if
(21:57):
you think about and maybe going back to your career
and it was like, you know, hey, there were some
guys probably the Big twelve at that time, or you know,
like you knew maybe guys at Kansas or whatever. But
then everybody else, it was you could figure out who
is positional, size, speed, athleticism, skill would have you who
were the guys that were serious about being really you know,
dave On Reid comes to mind, who plays for the Nuggets.
(22:19):
He was a guy he was like, he had measurables,
he had skill. He was ranked a hundred or something
like that, you know, so it wasn't that much different
than maybe him and the guy who's ranked fifty. You
could kind of toss the coin. But when you could
tell about Dave and was seriousness of approach, like this
is a guy who like wants to be a really
good player, is going to be diligent and all those things.
Ultimately you can win with that guy, and that guy
(22:42):
goes from being number hundred to being drafted and kind
of hanging in the NBA here over the last five years.
So that was the thing for me to sort of understand,
you know. I also thought, there's the world is full
of like going up from CIA or whatever and then
transfer world. The world's full of six to combo guards
that can probably get ten points a game at the
(23:03):
high major level, but can't help you win because who
do they guard if they can't play the point and
they can only guard the point, and you're playing against
Duke and they've got wings that are six six and
six eight and he's six too, what does he guard? Yeah, no,
it's and the people I think they just look at
box scores. I look at total points, and that does
(23:25):
not I actually thought, you know, like, but let me
just go back to last night. Oboji is the m
v P and I thought my cork was great, But
what Obaji did defensively was unbelievable, Like he was remarkable defense.
And that's really hard to quantify for somebody who's not
really intently watching watching the game. Um. So, so you
(23:48):
guys are building it, but what can be taken from
Like you said, you saw mcdonaldall Americans at Miami. This
is not people forget Miamie did not have a basketball
like twenty years right, non existent. Um and those facilities
dice and on campus again, it's not a college for
(24:09):
basketball town. Theer say, what's that? How did you? How
did you get that going? How do you the recruiting
machine going when you don't have a history, when you
have fan support, but it was a crazy fan support
and you're in that league which is murderers, Bro, how
did you get that going? Yeah, it's funny. When coach
took the job, I think he thought it was a
really good league and then all of a sudden we
(24:30):
had Louisville pit Noter Dame and Terracuse. You're like, oh
my god, like this just became a ridiculous league. And
uh no, I listen. I think, um first, as I said,
you gotta get a little lucky, right, you gotta you
gotta get off to a good start, and we had
a core and then we had Shane and all of
a sudden, what I learned is at the mid major level,
(24:51):
a lot of times it was selling what you have
our facility or whatever, you know, our locker room and arena.
You know, when you get to the high major level,
everyone is so focused on being a pro style style
of play and and and development like, and so we
were able to tell this little development story starting with
(25:14):
the guys we inherited. So like Kenny Kaji goes from
being you know, doesn't really play at all, doesn't take
a three, doesn't make a three in his first two
years at Florida to making like sixty three's for us
his senior year, you know. And Shane Larkin goes from
being nine eight on the list to be in the
eighteen pick in the draft, and you start to slowly
build that up and then um, you start to craft
(25:37):
a little bit of like, Okay, this is what our
cel is, this is what this is what we can sell.
And Coach did such an unbelievable job and sort of
galvanizing the community. Uh, we started to get support. Our
administration began to support because they saw the success, and
I think coach became a guy that people looked at
and said, wow, he seems like guys are having fun,
(26:00):
giving a lot of freedom, offensively, great location. And then
I think the transfer thing. You know, we got very lucky.
We win the league and then we lose Shane to
the draft in like sixteen years, and then we got
Angel Rodriguez and Shelton McClellan to sit out, and so
the next group was just okay. We had an okay year,
a great group of guys, but we knew we had
(26:22):
Angel and Shane to all conference players sitting out and
and trying to develop them in the off season. I
mean in the in the in the red shirt year.
You also you also get a chance in practice. Most
guys who transfer, they weren't the go to score, right,
they weren't playing enough wherever they were. That's why they
trans You know, some get in trouble raids, some get homesick,
(26:46):
and of course some transferrupt. Even the transfer up, I
think it helps because you assimilar to the speed athletics
and the morning like every red shirt we ever had
in practice, I've received practice the coach tiles and like
you use everything one of these practices to try and
you know, try and be a killer, go get buckets.
It helps the level of your practice, right, but also
(27:06):
helps that guy kind of because what what what happens
oftentimes is you lose your confidence. You know, you just do.
You go to a place and you think you're really good,
and then you don't play. And most of the time
it's your own fault. You're not playing like I'm not
I'm not omitting that, but whatever it is, you lose
your confidence and that year is needed to assimilate to
(27:28):
the school, to the program at his strength development, but
also regain your confidence. I think it's one of those
um I had a coach tell me it's called the
big called it the billis rule, right because you can
transport you want not sit out that somehow it's a
bad thing. I think we're totally missing the bota on
that that part the portal was. The portal is rough.
(27:49):
But I think that having a guy sit out and
maintain that year, I would. I think it's just pushed
for that. I don't know where the pushback would be.
It feels like more in the media than anything else.
You know, well, the coach leaves that a player, coaching
player or not people, it's not the same thing. Yeah,
And I think there's a question of what's right and
I don't. I'm not. I don't. I don't know what's right.
(28:09):
And I mean, I think the coach lead thing is
funny because I just signed a contract. Like there's there's
some financial repercussions if I just decided to walk away there, right,
but like you have you have you buy it, right
as a player doesn't have to do a playout and
now they don't have to sit out. That doesn't But
on the other hand, yeah, there's there are some benefits
of sitting out. And and my most concerned with graduation.
(28:30):
I feel like, you know, the five years all our
guys it was just they graduated, which is the ultimate
goal here. Who's the best? Give me the Give me
the best story of a guy who when you first recruited,
when he first got there, you're like, yikes. And then
four or five years later he walks and oh, I
mean your quand Newton he was a really good player
(28:53):
from Philly, ultimately scoring in the Philadelphia Catholic League. Um,
I love them, you know, Coach larn Aga, Uh, I
mean it makes you almost here up when you talk
about it. But his mom came out his official visit,
and uh, she was a great lady and she you know,
Jaquan was from Philly, tough, a little bit of a
(29:13):
tough background him, and he was a great kid. And
his mom basically grabbed Mrs Laranagan and Coach Larnagan said like, hey,
I'm not gonna be here and like, no, I know,
like you're you're gonna be in Phillies. No, I have cancer.
You know, I'm I'm I'm probably not gonna be here,
and you need you know, uh, you need you know
if I send Kuan here, you're gonna have to take
(29:34):
care of him. And Jaquan's mom passed away. Um, I
think right before the state championship game, and he went
to practice. He played in the game and won the
state championship and he came to Miami and he scored
about twelve hundred points. We won like a hundred games
in the time he was here. He was a great,
great player for us. And uh, and yet you know,
(29:56):
like Kwan hated school, I'm not gonna if In fact,
it's funny he texted me the other day when we
got the job and said, hey, I'm coming on your staff.
I said, yeah, you're gonna be in charge of making
sure everybody goes to class. And you know he was laughing,
but uh, you know, I don't think there was a
dry eye in the house when we took pictures with
him with his cap and gown from you know, top
fifties school in the country. Uh, you know, the day graduation.
(30:20):
You know. So there's a lot of stories like that,
and you know that's what coach is so good at.
I mean, he's just you know, if I could be
that way for guys, I you know, that would be
that would be the success, right, more of the wins
and losses. You know, I'm saying that people should know
about Jim Laronega that's allowed him to be this successful
(30:42):
for this amount of time in the sport basketballs Well,
I mean, first of all, you know, let's he's got
seven I mean, he should be in the Hall of Fame.
He got seven hundred. He's gonna have seven hundred women's
plus when this is all over, whenever that is, and
he's done it at Poland Green George Mason in Miami,
you think, let's think about that, he's gone to you know,
(31:04):
the final four around the thirty two uh two Sweet
sixteen's Elite eight, Um, you know, just incredible. Uh, there's
nobody that loves basketball more than Jim Ernegie is a
great player. Uh. He he wakes up every day. He
has no hobbies. He likes going to movies. That's about it.
(31:25):
He's a basketball guy. He watches every game. Obviously, his
sons and assistant in the NBA watches like the NBA games,
He watches college games. He just has an incredible thirst
for knowledge, even at his age about you know, about
the game. And uh, that's just nobody that is more
of a basketball guy lifer uh than he. And his
(31:48):
ability to view the game from the perspective probably like
you have, like as a really good player, somebody who's
a good player, Like that's how he views the game.
So I think it's very easy for guys to play
for him if you're a really good player. Jim Roneg
is like the guy you want to play for because
he's viewing it from the lens of of the really
(32:08):
good player. You know, he left Providence. He's like top
five in every category, you know. Um, so yeah, I
mean it's just his his his passion is unmatched for
for basketball. This is not this is not your first
head coaching interview, your first time. You got close. Yeah,
uh if if if a lot of the sister coaches
(32:29):
and this, if you were now that you've accomplished that
you've got the first head coaching job, what would your
advice be going into an interview with a zoo call? Yeah,
and I'm the wrong guy, right because like I, um,
I think being yourself and for me, it was the
only way I could do it. You know, Uh, I'm
(32:52):
much more of conversationalist. I guess like not, I don't
I'm not scripted. I'm probably not like as I don't know.
I didn't come in there with the whole portfolio polished. No, yeah,
I don't know. Pop Paul is yeah, the portfolio. You're
right because I did that once and I walked away
(33:14):
on that wasn't me right as me as this? Yeah,
I mean like I I can I can pretty much
um and I'm not I can pretty much sit in
a room with almost anybody. UM. And I've got friends
in all walks of life and I think that people
know that about me. But uh, if I go in
there and try to uh script something that's that's not
gonna be as good. And uh, I always felt like
(33:38):
if you were yourself, they were either going to like
you or they didn't or they didn't like you, and
that was that. You know, I was never trying to
fool anybody or trick anybody, you know, into into hiring me.
So it was like, it's not arrogant, it's just I'm
not good at not being me, So I just didn't try.
You know, I don't know that that's good advice, by
(33:59):
the way, I'm no, I actually think it's obviously think
I actually think it's fantastic a much because so often
times people want to know, like what's the what's the secret?
And you know, my thing was, whenever I've interviewed it,
I understand there's always going to be fighting theav and coach.
So you try and present to them like Okay, well
(34:19):
here's how it would look and here's how it feels.
But it has to I'm just you know, it's like
it loses who I am and what I am as
a communicator. When it's like you said, like you can
sit around with anybody and talk with anybody and find
some sort of common ground and an ability to have
a conversation and related to why they should be kind
(34:41):
of in on you. Uh, are your parents still alive? Yes,
still alive? You you got the job dad? Mom? I
remember your first your first job was a no page job. Well,
I mean, what do they I mean, like, look, you've
done other things that I'm sure they're excited for. Yeah,
but this is this is twenty years Yeah, everybody's excited.
(35:04):
What was the conversation? Like, are you sure this is
what you want? You know that my parents are like
not like you know, they're the opposite of the current
day basketball parents. You know, they're like not in the
stands telling me what to do whatever, Like, hey, you know,
you got a pretty good at Miami. You sure, sure,
just what you want? And yeah, okay, all right, good,
(35:25):
that's good. My parents are pretty low ky and it's
they're not They won't be coaching me from the stands.
I can promise you that. How do you approach the portal?
What's your portal plan? Like, you know, talking about individual pleasure,
but it's a it's a tricky kind of new rule.
What's your what's your plan? And thoughts are yeah, it's um,
(35:46):
it's a good question. You know, I think without giving
out too many state secrets, I mean, I think there's
some analytics behind how you evaluate some guys. Um. I think, Um,
you know what I do find Doug is what works
for me and probably works for most coaches. Going back
(36:06):
to seriousness of approach, right is like an older guy
who's serious is that guy is probably a little bit
more fun to coach at times? Right? So, um, I
think sometimes but looks sometimes you get It's like it's
like sometimes it's like you have a VCR that somebody
(36:28):
else program right now you have like five that in
previous program. Now at least they play college basketball and
so they understand a lot of stuff. But there's also
you know, we all have different ways of practicing. I
know one, you know there are some programs that that
only plays own you gotta teach guy some programs that
(36:51):
I think you know, so there's lots of difference thing
some level of continuity within your program while making the
portal work for you and not again Stew I think
is is so important. Um And yeah, I think to
your point, like we've been lucky enough where we have
so many good ones. You know that this year that
(37:12):
Charlie Moore, Kim mcgusty, Jordan Miller, like, give me those
guys every every day because they were just such great
guys and worked their butts off, and um, I'm hopeful
that you know some combination evaluating the character, the statistics,
the situation and all that. But how do you how
do you evaluate the character when you have such a
(37:33):
short period of time? Right like you it feels like, yeah,
I mean you do a very deep dive of intel,
almost like the NBA we would evaluate you know. In fact,
there are times with some of them are you know,
we had number of guys in the Big twelve where
I'm calling NBA scouts about them and saying, okay, what
do you what did you see? Remember when we recruited
(37:56):
Sheldon McClellan was a great player one up in the NBA.
Got got hurt, but probably would be in the NBA
today if he if he didn't tears a Killings. Yeah,
he's a great player, so talented. Yeah, yeah, I got
like two thousand points in college on nine shots a game.
You know. It was just a really good player. And
it was with the Wizards. Played a year and then
the second year got hurt in training camp. Toris Achilles
(38:17):
and so um. But I remember having to sit down
with him after we got him. We decided taking him.
Thank god we took him. Um, and I said, hey,
I you know, I talk to some people and I'm
not gonna tell you who, but like, your body language
is terrible. And he's like, what did they look at that? Yeah,
well here's the report from this team X. Like, you know,
we gotta fix this if you think you want to
(38:38):
play in the NBA and all that. So um, yeah,
I think just the amount of quick intel and I
know people say, yeah, it seems like not a lot
of time. But if you've been in the business long enough,
you know who to trust. You can you know one
of the things that is talking to opposing coaches, right like, hey, Doug,
like you played against this guy twice. What do you think,
Oh man, you know you should take him. That type
(38:59):
of thing. Now you can put together staff. What's that process? Like,
how do you go about I'm working on it now? Yeah,
I mean, um, you know, I think you build it
like a team, right, Like you get one guy and
then that okay, we have this. Now we've got to
compliment him with somebody else and compliment the next guy,
you know, things like that. So yeah, I don't think
(39:20):
it's at least for me. It wasn't like, hey, I
got three guys waiting in the wings. They're all showing
up on the first day. Uh. You know, obviously like
recruiting in some ways because the guys that you want,
you know, they have probably they probably have good jobs,
and so you're trying to convince them to come with you.
The good thing is, you know, probably similar to l A. Uh,
there's a million basketball people from d C that want
(39:42):
to come home or you know, be around here. So
not that not that the whole staff will be that
from there here, but it's obviously desirable place because of
the you know, they recruiting base and the location. So
you didn't have like a like a defined list of no, yeah, no,
you have no you have guys. Yeah, you have guys,
and you talk to them, but you're trying build the
best staff for you know, GW might not be the
(40:03):
best staff for somewhere else. You know, is there anything
like h Miller sub I know it's crazy. Yeah, yeah,
it's just I think he used to write down I mean, hey,
this guy needs to play twenty seven minutes. This guy
is gonna play thirty one minutes. This guy is gonna
play twelve minutes, and give it to pastor Knacker whoever
(40:24):
was with him, and and they would stubb coach, I
would say, and I would something was the hardest thing
for the head coach, right because you're you're trying to
especially in the two half game like the four quarters, right,
probably makes it a little bit easier in terms of, hey,
when you're going with guys and things like that. But
because we're we've got these halves, it's it's it's so
interesting to think through that. You know, what do you think?
(40:47):
I think it's probably good. I think the closer we
get to the FEBA game, you know it is probably
a good thing. You know what, I really you know, people,
I really like it's on the offensive rebound, the reset.
It's awesome when you when I coach it, you know,
you don't have time to come out and we set
anything like that, So you coach it too. That's the
best time to hit a dig three to get offensive rebound.
(41:08):
The whole you know, the defense is sunk in, you
kick out, you hit three. It just speed it up.
I had Spens rule I think that they need an
The other one I like is the offense duway with
offensive best in your parents, you guys competing at the hoop.
I'm okay with the offensive defensive basket aperience. I'm the solar. Yeah,
I agreed. Yeah, I think the other one too is um,
(41:29):
you know, the advance. You know, if we've won a
game because somebody threw it the length of the court
and we tipped it or guy missed a crazy shot
or whatever, that I like not advancing, you know, but
like obviously the advance makes it a little bit more
exciting at the end of the game. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know. I I kind of like it the
way it is, but I'm willing to agree with you.
(41:51):
It's there's so many fun a t as you can run,
there's so many more things that seemed possible. But you're
also like giving a free pass to half the court.
You know that one's that one's side, but but the
other but the other side too. It is And I
know just because my brothers spent the last fears to
the woman's side. Coaches pocket those timeouts because they know
they could because I must save them for advancing. So
(42:13):
sometimes it does actually speed up the game organically, and
that guys are you know, they're hey or women whatever
thinking about those last couple of time outs, whereas the
NBA you have just so many time outs it doesn't
really matter. I don't even know how. It seems like
they get team time outs. They have no they have
no under add of bounds plays, like all their you know,
you know, it's all you know, it's all side it's
(42:35):
all side out. Um, what about So, how do you
want to coach? Like, what are the things that you
want to do? You've been waiting this whole time. They like,
I got my own team. I've been sitting there the
whole time. Just again, you're not giving away trade secrets,
but a couple of things that you want to do
that are unique to George Washington. Yeah, I mean, honestly,
I think I think, again, what we've done at Miami,
(42:59):
I feel like, you know, coaches lead and I've had
a big impact. So I'm not gonna you know, I
don't think I'm gonna change like so drastically. Um, I
think a lot of the things that we've been able
to implement throughout the years, and we've evolved towards uh,
you know, maybe what you did ten years ago you
feel like, you know what, I've found a better way
(43:19):
and and and so yeah, I don't think there's anything
so unique to what I would want to do. UM.
I just think, as as we talked about the other day,
like I think you gotta eliminate losing before you can
start to think about winning, right, and so you know,
trying to trying to be in a situation where you
do things that are you know, playing winning back. I
(43:39):
talked to jeff An Gundi the other day about this,
um a little bit, and I thought he had a
great He's like, hey, as the head coach, like you
can't worry about the other teams. You can't worry about
you know, uh a lot of things like you have
to wear your job is to make sure your team.
Winning basketball doesn't mean you win, but you're playing winning basketball.
What does that mean? You know, taking the ball and
(44:00):
playing hard and defending your position and um, you know, uh,
you know, I a belief that you should play uh,
sharing the ball and playing for each other and those things.
And I know they're big picture things, UM, but it's
like a lot of teams don't do that that's why
they lose. Yes, some things, but I'm just more interested
(44:23):
in how you implement, is the way to implement, way
to follow up there thought of hey, I've always I've
always wanted to do this. Yeah, well, you know, I
think there's a lot of skill acquisition science that's probably
like in the last uh probably only thirty forty years
(44:44):
that have sort of come up. And the one thing
I've always, um, I thought about and now there's a
lot of talk about this. I'm sure you've paid attention
to some of this stuff. Like there are things that
we do in coaching that a lot of people do,
and the only reason why we do them is because
in nineteen fifty, like coach I but did him you
(45:04):
know whatever in nineteen whatever year he coach right, Like
we do this and just because coaches do him right.
And then you start to read the science in the
acquisition piece and you're saying like, hmm, I don't know,
that seems very different than than what we do. And
so I think as a coach, maybe in today's day
and age, you're trying to use some of this research
(45:25):
and some of this science that is now become more
prevalent and say how do we crafty, give me, give
me one thing that drives you crazy that we have
always done that we also do Oh man, I mean
now I'm gonna get myself in trouble. Not h no, no, no, Like, okay,
I hate dummy offense. Um yeah, I mean it's not
(45:48):
to say we wouldn't do dummy offense, but I'm not
a big dummy offense guy. Uh. It's like always teaching
five on five, always teaching five on five, well not
always five on five, but you have to like, this
is a puzzle, this is perception action, right. Uh, You've
got to see the bodies out there to evaluate your
decision making and then five on oh right, it's just
(46:11):
not how the game is played. So you know you
can use five on oh too, you know, install something
or you know, maybe the day of the game to
just kind of move with some pace and get the ball.
But like if you think, again, I'm I've never coached,
well I've coached two games on one on one, so
but but there's there's great coaches that probably do five
and all the time. But I think, um, see pattern recognition.
(46:35):
You have to have the whole pattern for that to happen, right,
So having the I've always found that playing five on
five and and against defense is how guys are able
to perceive and make better decisions. It's interesting. I my
a guy who actually put it heads with as a
coach is named Tron Druker. He coaches I think he
coaches the women's Israeli women's. Actually he was my coach
(46:57):
and me run on. But I am really enjoyed his
act and I enjoyed practices because they're all five and five?
Is it? You know? We played like it was five
and five every day and everything that he put in
because the games played five on five game Yes, yeah,
And I think you make it great. It's way more
fun to play. And and then the you know, the
question is you know, the older of the coach, the
(47:18):
more they stopped at, how much do you stop that
you correct? But you can also when you're I love
that when you're pluting something in you can show them
not just the what, but also the why. You know,
so don't have to conceptualize the why. They can see
the why. Is that a fair estimation? What you can say? Yeah?
I think the best example I can give it. I
read this in a book by Doug Lemof who's author's
(47:40):
written a bunch of teaching books. Tonight, I'm sure people
listening to this podcast and maybe heard of him or
listen to him or read his book about coaching. But
they brought these uh chess masters in, like ten chess masters,
and they had ten chess boards out there, and then
they and they asked them to look at the chess
boards for like ten minutes, and they left the room.
(48:00):
And then they brought in like novice chess players, and
they asked them to look at the chess boards, and
and then they asked them to leave the room, and
they came back and said, hey, can you recreate the boards?
So of course who did a better job, right, the
chess masters? And so people would say, oh wow, they
at least they got photographic memories and all that. We'll
hold on a second. What the boards were aligned? As
(48:21):
we're great chess matches in history, like what those pieces
look like in that particular great chess match in history. Right.
Then they came in and they did it again, and
they did h randomly selected pieces all over the boards.
They brought the masters in, they left, they brought the
novice in, they left, they came back. Who did it better.
(48:44):
Nobody did it better. There was no distinction because the
masters have this long term memory base that they can
draw from pattern recognition, things that they've seen. But once
you ran themized it, nobody knew the difference. It's the
reason why you can watch plays that you've seen and
(49:06):
you know what they are, and somebody who kind of
knows basketball he can't name what they are. So it's
the same thing with the players. If we've only got
half the chessboard out there, will they will they will?
They encoded in their long term memory long enough you know,
I don't know, Probably not okay, So I like it.
So dummy, offense, aren't giving you one more? One more threre? Like,
oh my goodness, Oh my goodness, Um, are you gonna
(49:31):
run line? Are you gonna like? I've seen? Like conditioning
that he the exception of Christmas break. We never conditioned practically.
If you've got hard nothing practice, you don't need it.
Some coaches are some coaches are conditioning nuts, you know,
some guys, I think guys, Yeah, John was how I
used to sprit to to get water. Four quarters of
(49:52):
practice and at the end of one quarter you had
to run and then you water and you do at
the end of all four Yeah, well one interesting one. Again.
I don't know if I was doing as you're bringing
up all these sort of uh you know, sort of
idiosyncrasy videosyncrasies of coaching. Like one time we used to
do this a little bit, and somebody sort of suggested
(50:14):
it made sense, like should you have halftime of practice? Yeah, halftime,
You have half time in the games. Wouldn't you just
have halftime and practice, like, hey, we go for if
we're gonna practice an hour and a half, like at
forty five minutes, like we're gonna go sit down somewhere
and watch film or talk or whatever. The problem is
again you get into the logistics. It's all good in theory, right,
but as a player, now I gotta get you loose again.
(50:38):
So we're not practicing for an hour and forty five minutes.
If we sit down, we gotta probably get up and
do something to get loose again. Line lapses one that
could go that could go away. You know if I
never did two line lamps again, Oh, two line laps
right right, I've actually done this in practice everything I
used to do that to get pumped up. All right,
let's cool, let's go down. Let's go down. Uh three man,
(51:00):
we've three man? I mean, when do you do that?
Throwing it to the wig and then ran behind the guy? Like,
I don't know, Um, three on two, two to the two?
I want, how many times in your career have you
come down and it's been three guys and then two
guys right in the middle of the lane and then
you threw it and then somebody went there and threw
it right back, Like, I don't know. I'm just asking
(51:24):
questions I don't have. I don't have any. You're a
great play like, I mean, yeah, you want to recreate
something that you're gonna you're gonna see I do like
three on three on three, I love on four and
four on four. I think those are always always fun
and always fun and concluded, Um, okay, what about scheduling
your idea of scheduling get expectations the league? How the
(51:44):
league schedules? Um, you have you budget, but I guess
it's all part of your new job. What's your thoughts
on how you want your schedule? Well, you know, the
A ten has a scheduling policy that I need to
learn a little bit. In fact, I'm on a call
today about it. So I need to wrap my brain
around a little bit. I think for everybody in scheduling
these days, Um, you know we got two at large
(52:08):
bids at George Mason and which is you know, not
that easy to do, right and uh, Eric Conchole you
can ask him about he did our schedule at George Mason.
And you know, we were obviously trying to figure out
the r p I and how to get our best
RPI and some of it is your lead right the
CIA our last year there when when we we won
(52:28):
fifteen straight games in the regular season and won the league.
But you know Old Dominion got in and lost a
butler at the buzzer, we beat Villanova and VCU, who
finished fourth, went to the final four, So like the
league was great, um, But now I think for everybody
trying to understand the net and and and and so
did those predictive metrics and how they play into uh,
(52:51):
you know, getting in the tournament or having a good
net or having a good r p I. Is everyone's
sort of trying to learn that right now. So I
can't speak intelligently on that piece because I think everybody's
trying to think it through you know, last thing, what
do you want? Um, when I see your team play
in for seven eight months? What should I walk away
(53:12):
from the gym Our Bucks Center. I've been there a bunch, right,
it's really I mean historic in that sense. Yeah, it's
the Smith Center. It's Smith Center. But they have the
red chair for for red which is awesome. You know
that does the red chair in the stands. Yeah, that's
that's very cool. So what do I what should I
walk away? Year one? Saying about your prob Yeah, I
(53:34):
would just say that we, um, we play really hard.
I know it's just cliche. Uh. We we defend and
we play for each other, take good shots. Alright. See
yesterday it was day one you got on the court
with the fellas. Day two is what a bunch of
more administrative things, all the different things you have to do,
(53:55):
and then also getting on the court again today. So
that's the best part of the day. Everything else is
you know, hectic, but when you're on the court, obviously
you you know, you enjoy it. Everything else is the job, right, Yeah,
you know, honestly, everything else is what you get paid for.
It's it's like they say this in morning radio, like
you're not actually getting paid to the show. You're getting
paid to get up every day, right, and you're not
(54:17):
actually getting paid to coach. You're getting paid for all
of the other stuff. It's a it's a great way
to look at it. I agree. Well, thanks to the
inside and last night. I love the storytelling and you've
been incredibly genterous for your times. Thank you so much, Doug,
I appreciate brother. Thanks so much. All right, there you
(54:37):
go by the all ball in the books. You know,
the really interesting guy getting a brand new job and
your perspective that you didn't get anywhere else. Remember listen
to dougall and Show daily on the I Heart Radio
app Radio dot com or Serious Sex m to seventeen
the meantime, remember somebody want on Somebody find interesting in
(54:58):
our question you want to answer? Feel free reach out
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and tell a friend he'll be afraid to reach you.
The sucker sending along to somebody because Chris is awesome.
I'm Doug Goby and this is all gone
Welcome in. It is ball ball, and we're here coming
off an unbelievable national church. That the kind of game
that I still kind of don't know what happened, right,
You don't know what now you know that thing gets
out of controling such a bit. So here's what I
want to do and bring back. He's the new head coach.
(00:28):
Word Washington. His thoughts. He coached against both these teams,
he saw the running against. So that for their due recap,
the national championship given some person prostitutes is a new
that coach George Washington. Yeah, well, um, I would say
we've never seen that before from Kansas last night. Um.
(00:50):
But then the gentleman who knows you right now saw
it from Kansas. Um. First, let me get to last
let me get to last night. Okay, uh what first?
What do you think of the first tex Yeah? I mean, um,
and I gotta be honest stuck. I was. I was
watching and returning text to people at the same time.
(01:12):
So when Kansas jumps out, UM, I I started to
feel like, Okay, they're they're they're in control and they're
playing you know, I uh what I thought, what I
thought might happen? Um, and then you know to Carolina
is I mean, the guards for Carolina have been so
(01:32):
um Mac has been like like the consistent one obviously,
but I think what's gotten Carolina at the point where
they were so good at the end of the year
is the consistency of guard play. As the season we're on,
they were making big plays, big shots off the dribble,
you know, a lot of freedom that that human I think,
to his credit, gave those guys to go, uh make
plays with the ball, and they were. They're both uh
(01:54):
skillful guys, they can make shots off the dribble, etcetera.
So you started to see some of that with Bacon
just coming back into the game, I think in the
first half ever foul and just being somewhat dominant, and
I'm thinking myself, Jesus, I mean, this is like their
best performance at the right time, you know, even though
they've been playing well, you know, and and and and
Kansas to the other side, that's that first half is
(02:16):
what it looked like against Kentucky where they weren't rebounding,
We're getting beasted on boards, and then they weren't getting
back defensively, and then they just they felt like they
all got spent off offensively. Christian Bron's driving to try
killing Wilson's driving the traffic, and they just look completely discombbedly.
And here's the similarity to the Kentucky game. I I
(02:38):
just to call it on on radio. Was at the
end of the first half. And I don't know if
he was I don't know if he was just trying
to figure out who could play and who couldn't, or
just trying to just take everybody out. But he had
like jail and cool. He he went emptied his bench.
Kind he was trying. Yeah, he was trying. He was looking.
It was just like pushing buttons a little bit um.
(03:00):
And I thought Carolina was playing, and I think Hubert
said it. Carolina was playing extremely hard too. When they
got down whatever it was, how many they all of
a sudden they not defensively and physically Yeah yeah, okay,
So what did you see? Obviously there's an energy change,
but what did you see schematically changed? What What do
you think Bill did adjustment wise in the second would
(03:22):
you notice differently? Yeah? You know, I and again a
preface this by saying, and I was texting a lot
during this time, you know, as you can imagine. But
one thing that stood out is Charles said at halftime
about uh, them going to McCormick and like that wasn't it.
That wasn't the answer, right, and so not not so
(03:44):
much in there. I thought their defense obviously picked it
up and they were able to get some things in transition.
They made a couple of threes that that were critical
to you know, cut the lead, cut the lead, cut
the leaders. But I thought late in the game I
felt really happy for David McCormick because I think they
kept going to him and obviously the huge bucket late
in the game, you know, after he missed it and
(04:04):
got it back, and his confidence level to go I
think it was. I think he may have missed and
rebounded it or they kicked it out and went back
to him, and then his confidence level to go back
to the hook. Like I'm like, damn like good for him,
because I think most guys would have said, oh, I
got it back, let me throw that spread that back
out and get it three. That game had some stuff
I've never seen before, right like puff throws up on
(04:25):
the court. I guess he oh man, he was good,
but he was good. And then all of a sudden
he got hit in the stomach and he like lost
his win and through he throws up on the court.
And then the crazy play where Kansas is up three.
They throw the ball into dewand the point guard who
steps out of bounds not once, but twice. I've never
(04:46):
seen that. I've never seen that ever. Especially it was
it was it was side out. It was it was,
it was. It was a deep side. Yeah. I've been
to a bunch of Bill's practices and a bunch of
Bill shot arounds. And one of the things he does
the shoot arounds. They they're very quick and what they do,
but he makes them practice when he calls odd angle inbounds,
(05:06):
you know, just like different spots so they know where
they're doing and to have a to have a kid
and he's it's only I was second year plane it,
but to step out about the point guard step out
about twice when you throw the ball into I don't
I don't want to see how. I don't see how
we couldn't have given the angle and the way where
he wants up catching it. It was like, yeah, it's
(05:28):
by the way he put in the cycle and play.
Did you see that? You know? Wi you know, everyone
calls it cyclone or whatever, like the old The Warriors
rant it. Fred Hoydberg ranted, I think I would say,
where you you kind of like enter it to the
wing and then it's uh, your biggest up high and
you set like a double back back screen. Okay. So
(05:49):
so so I didn't see that at the stouting power. No, no, no, no,
that it wasn't. That's an Arizona plate. I thought that. Okay.
So Patronik claims that that's his play that he had
with Sean Arizona, and everybody copied. I don't know power
power of the power vibers, but yeah, people, little people
(06:10):
called cyclone. Yeah, yeah. And I hadn't seen that all
you know, I mean not all year, because it's not
like we've watching them all year, but certainly in the
tournament and and you know, when we scouted them, I
never thought and I think McCormick got it blocked or
but I I'm watching it late in the game and
I'm like, oh, he put this in for like he
put it in for the game, Like damn, good for him. Yeah.
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
(06:33):
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Fox sports
Radio dot Com and within the I Heart Radio app
search f s R to listen live. Um, you've been
on that other sideline. Granted is an assistant coach, but
what's that like all of a sudden the momentum switches
like it did feel like Hubert I felt like he
(06:54):
was a little slow to react and call of time
out and try and try and slow that thing down.
But you've you've in there, right, you guys. It was
forty seven fifteen and it was McCormick show for the
He only played five minutes and the second half against
Guess what is that like in terms of you sitting
there wanting to grab coach and now and you you can't.
What's that like? Yeah? I mean I think Look, you know,
(07:18):
people talk a lot of times about adjustments, and you
know the problem is usually what leads up to that
is what turnovers and and miss shots like like we
had if you go back to our game, Um, probably
five open threes Doug like somewhat open, uh, some very
(07:42):
open where like the way to stop the bleeding was
to just make one or two of them, you know,
to keep it, to keep it like Okay, look, we
don't have to lead anymore, maybe they're up to Like
at one point, I think we were up to and
we had like two who opened threes in a row.
Then they took the lead and they go up forty
(08:04):
two and we've got um I won't name names because
I love my guys, so I'm not like trying to
call them out, but they had we had a wide
open one that would have gone like five. Now it's
a two possession game. The problem is when you miss
those shots and right and you start pressing in terms
of like, uh, maybe I'll drive the next one, yeah,
(08:26):
and then and then and then they turn you over
because they're playing hard. But and that's that's kind of
for us. We were up six with the ball to
start the half. We're one of the best teams in
the country and not turning the ball over, and uh,
we turn it over. They get a run out. And
I think in Kansas is case, they're so devastating and
transition as you know that if you if you make
(08:47):
one of those mistakes or there's a long rebound off
of miss or you know the other one is as
a point guard, you know, any time I always say
anytime little guys are at the rim, it doesn't go in.
It's you know, it's a layup, right, So so it's
it's hard to stop the bleeding. I think, you know,
you try to call time outs, you maybe try to
(09:08):
change your defense, maybe you try to put the ball
inside to sort of slow the game down a little bit.
But um, you know it's I mean, there's a reason
why the guys won, you know, his games or something
like he's a really good coach. Okay, so so so
now you have your first head job right now. It's
now you're calling a time match right now, you're making
(09:30):
those calls. What's interesting about Hubert is uh and you
know it from being in leagas law is they didn't
run any of the Carolina stuff. That's not much at all, Right,
I give credit. I mean it's unbelievable. Right, So I mean,
if you go back to when Roy was there, I
can have tould you everything they're running. Right, you got
a box set to go to their shuffle series, right,
(09:51):
everybody knows all their secondaries track out of the first
time out either drun the dribble or you know, it's
the same stuff. So it's it's one thing to be
a different voice in a different face. And to not
having coached before. So other than you go like, hey
we're gonna do a different way. Uh that that that
that's really okay. So how much of what you're gonna
(10:13):
do is what you want to do and how much
of it is will look, I think you gotta be yourself. Um.
So that's the first thing. I think that as we
talked about probably before, like you know, there's things that
are not going to change, right, but there there might
be things based on your personnel that would change. There's
things that you feel very comfortable teaching. I think it's
(10:33):
always better as a coach, right if sometimes the scheme
might be better, but if you're not as comfortable teaching it,
it's not gonna be as good as something that you're
comfortable teaching. The guys will absorb it better. And uh,
you know, in Hubert's case, I mean, he just deserves
so much credit for, um not changing for the sake
(10:53):
of changing, right, because that's not right. But it's very
difficult if it takes a lot of confidence and a
lot of know how, and his staff deserves a lot
of support. The players deserve a lot of credit for
being able to say, hey, we're gonna tweak some things
here that, you know, looking at our personnel, maybe we
feel like it's better for us. And then when they
were not I would say, not winning but early, and
(11:16):
I mean we beat them by twenty seven, and then
I think Wake got him pretty good right after. And yeah,
and uh, I remember Forbes text me because we had
beat Duke, and I think he was playing Duke next.
And then we beat Carolina and he says, hey, thanks
for like beating these historic programs by like in historic ways,
(11:38):
you know, like right before I play them, you know,
if I appreciate that, you know, And uh and so uh, yeah,
I mean he just deserves a lot of credit because again,
a lot of people, especially when you lose that Miami
by twenty seven, you lose that way, you may think
of yourself, Man, did I screw this up? And to
you know, for him to have doubled down on it,
I think they got better within it. It's certainly fit
(11:59):
their person know with manic. You know, Manic was such
a key for them. So I wish I could say
I'm gonna be that smart to do one or the other,
but I think we'll just could figure it out as
we go along. But it was to your point. I'll
give you you'll appreciate this as a basketball junkie, like
what you were saying about Carolina. Coach l used to
give a speech to the team and he said, Hey,
(12:20):
my last game in college was against Carolina. You know
my my our high school coach, played for Frank McGuire
at St. John's. I had coached at Virginia for seven
years against Carolina. At George Mason, you know, we played
Carolina a couple of times, including the n c A tournament. Uh,
you know, now I'm at Miami for X amount of years.
Like these are all the things they do, and you
(12:40):
just would write them up and say, we know, you know,
we know, we know what they're going to do. Now,
defending them, stopping them, you know, scoring on them, that's
a whole different deal, you know, but but we know
what they're gonna do. They're very systematic. You know. Ye
take me back, you're at George Mason. What was that
this acsion? Like, what was the decision like to lead
(13:03):
because he didn't remember, he didn't people were forgotten. It
wasn't like you went to the final four and then
he got the Miami offer and then he bolted. That
wasn't the way it took place, right, he stayed. What
was the decision like to leave? Yeah, I mean I
give him a lot of credit. Um, you know, we
we go back to the n c A Tournament in
two thousand eight. Um, we we lost in the championship
(13:25):
game in two thousands and seven and two thousand nine,
I went to an I t and two thousand nine,
two thousand and eleven. I don't think people are really
are best regular season team, Uh probably in uh in
c A history was in two thousand eleven with you know,
Luke Hancock as and uh you know, Ryan Pearson was
player a year in the league and Cam Long was
(13:47):
first team All League and we beat Villanova in the
first round and so you know when the season, um
what we los to Ohio State, uh in the in
the round the thirty two as Solinger and Craft and
those guys, and um, you know, I give coach a
lot of credit. And I just think he could have
stayed at George Mason forever and just been he could
(14:07):
have been Bob McKillop at at George Mason, you know,
and we were having a change in president and president
was a great he's since now passed Alan Merton, but
he's an unbelievable guy and so supportive and really coach
his best friend. And I think coach started to think
about those things. And um, I always wanted to coach
in the a CEC haven't been an assistant there. And
(14:27):
for me it was a wild time. Archie had offered
me the job to go to Dayton with him, and
I had really thought about it. I really believed in
arch and thought he would do a great job at Dayton,
and it was back then it was quite a bit
more money and uh, um, but I was sort of
leaning towards stating because we had a really good team
(14:48):
coming back. And then, believe it or not, the week
of sort of the Miami thing, I interviewed with coach Pettino,
Uh to go to Louisville, and then uh and if
you would coach Donovan to go to Florida And I
was literally on Florida's campus when coach Larnega took the
Miami job and uh, I was driving back from Gainesville
(15:09):
to the Orlando airport to fly to d C. My
bachelor party was that weekend. Believe it or not, we
were getting married in May, my wife Julie and I
and and uh. I remember Billy calling me and said, hey, I, UM,
I heard UM coach Larnea has taken Miami. And I'm like, man,
I don't I don't really know that. And then five
minutes later, like coach Larnega calls is you know, hey,
(15:31):
look if I if I take Miami, which I've been offered, uh,
this would be your situation. And I was like, all right, well,
I have a job no matter what. When I land
where it will be, you know, I have no idea.
And um, you know, as it turns out, you know,
I went to Miami that was like on a Wednesday,
went to Miami that Friday. It never really came back.
So what was a program like when you guys you know, Uh,
(15:56):
I'll give a lot of credit to UM coach Hath
and Histaffy. They we had a nice core of players.
Durant Scott who winds up being the defensive player of
the year, Kenny Kaju was an All Conference player. Um, Yeah,
Trey McKinney Jones who wanted up having a ten day
in the NBA. He was a great guy. H Julian Gamble,
(16:16):
who had been injured all of his career. He wound
up getting a sixty year for US and it was
a great players still playing in Europe. Um, so we
had a great core of players. And uh, I give
I give the staff credit, you know for that. Um. Obviously,
they had never had a winning season in the a
c C. Believe it or not, They've been in the
league about eight years. They had a five hundred year
that made the n c A Tournament, but they had
(16:38):
never had a winning season, and um, you know, there
were some things there that were you know, like I
think needed to be improved in terms of, you know,
the fan base and and things like that, a little
bit of apathy, what have you. But I thought coach
a Staff had done a good job of building the
roster to the point where, you know, as we looked
at it, you're like, all right, this is a team
that could have could have a chance to make the
(17:01):
n c A tournament, uh in the next year or two,
because they've got some pieces. And then obviously we get
Shane Larkin that summer and that changed everything. And the
Shane Mark, the Shane Makin thing. But he was he
was going to DePaul right, Yeah, he was actually at
de Paul believe it or not, that we had recruited
him at Mason. He was at De Paul and in
(17:21):
in summer school essentially gets there and for whatever reason,
I just you know, didn't didn't didn't like it wasn't comfortable.
Um you know, it was a little bit of homesick
because he you know, uh, Barry and Lisa had settled
in Orlando when Barry retired from playing baseball, and so, um,
you know, I think he felt like, man, if I
(17:42):
if I could go to a school in Florida that
was high major, you know, that would be great. Now
these guys that really believed and recruited me at George
Mason are actually in Florida at a high major school. So, um,
you we were able to Uh he called and I
mean it was like Donna chellel our president. She like
the day before school started. We had to go to
her and say, hey, you know, presidentialil like, is there
(18:04):
any chance we can get this guy in school? And uh,
they made it. They made it happen, and obviously the
rest is history because we had a nice core and
then we added the player of the year in the league.
When when when coaches take jobs and you just took
one and you just you discuss admissions. Okay, what are
those discussions really like? Is it? Is it? Hey, I'm
(18:26):
gonna need a favor and here's what what is the
favor within? What reason? Is it? How? How do you
how do you handle it? How do coach there? You know,
how do you handle that discussion with you with a guy?
Because there's like two sides too, right, Like you want
the job on the other hand, you know in the
back of your mind, like I can't winning this job
(18:48):
unless it's unless I'm I'm getting some help here, right,
How do you handle it? Hi? Coach Elhan? Yeah, I
think every institution is different, their their way of looking
at things. Um, I thought, George Mason we had a
good way in the sense that, you know, our admissions
director's philosophy was I don't want to give you like
slots like hey, you have exceptions, per se. I wanna
(19:11):
I want to discuss every student athlete and and let's
look at them and say, like, do we think they
can be successful here? Do do we think they can graduate?
And do we think that they you know, uh, you know,
can do a good job you know academically here? And
so each individual is different, right, and you evaluate those
people as they come. And I think from a coach
(19:32):
to standpoint, you try not have to bring anybody to
two admissions that you don't feel like, hey is serious
about graduating, Because if you get to the point where
you've brought a bunch of guys and they are struggling academically,
you're gonna lose credibility, you know, at the institutional level.
So for us like we we I mean we've graduated
everybody since two thousand and six that we've had other
(19:52):
than the guys who have gone pro early. So I
think you you build up some equity with your admissions
people to say, hey, anybody they bring, h uh, you know,
they've vetted in terms of, you know, how serious their
parents are about academics as you know, Dogum, it's not
like a lot of times when eighteen year olds coming
to school they need to understand the value of all
this stuff. But the supports there and everything like that.
(20:14):
But I think the biggest thing is making sure you
you bring people that you believe are going to be
successful at that place and and and some guys can
be successful here and not elsewhere, and some guys can
be successful elsewhere and not here. You know, what about
you as a recruiter and evaluator, the ability to understand
what an a C C player looks like as opposed
(20:35):
to what a CIA player looks like, and also a
factor in mind, like there's also tears to the a SEC.
You're gonna get the kid to do once unless he's
a secondary list or Carolina or whatever. You know, what's
that process like for you at that point in time
in your career. Yeah, I think there's a little bit
of fear, right You're trying to like, you know, think
(20:55):
to yourself, Man, I'm jumping up a level here. We
had a top twenty five team at George Mason, but
you know, I'm gonna have to really um figure it out,
you know, in terms of what what works, and uh,
you know what we found is is um And obviously
we recruit a couple of mcdonal's Americans at Miami and
a guy like Bruce Brown. It wasn't a mcdonals American
(21:16):
probably should have been. He was a fit with your guy,
and um, yeah, that's a great question. I mean I
think I always felt like in the a SEC there's
a one percenter list the guys that are just they
you know, the Jayson Tatums and Donovan Mitchell, the guys
that you know they're gonna be having their own sneakers
and stuff like that someday. And there's a couple of
(21:36):
those guys throughout ten years that were in the league,
and then I think you've got um everybody else. What
I found is is not that far off from each
other talent wise. The seriousness of approach to becoming a
really good player was the differentiator. You know, like if
(21:57):
you think about and maybe going back to your career
and it was like, you know, hey, there were some
guys probably the Big twelve at that time, or you know,
like you knew maybe guys at Kansas or whatever. But
then everybody else, it was you could figure out who
is positional, size, speed, athleticism, skill would have you who
were the guys that were serious about being really you know,
dave On Reid comes to mind, who plays for the Nuggets.
(22:19):
He was a guy he was like, he had measurables,
he had skill. He was ranked a hundred or something
like that, you know, so it wasn't that much different
than maybe him and the guy who's ranked fifty. You
could kind of toss the coin. But when you could
tell about Dave and was seriousness of approach, like this
is a guy who like wants to be a really
good player, is going to be diligent and all those things.
Ultimately you can win with that guy, and that guy
(22:42):
goes from being number hundred to being drafted and kind
of hanging in the NBA here over the last five years.
So that was the thing for me to sort of understand,
you know. I also thought, there's the world is full
of like going up from CIA or whatever and then
transfer world. The world's full of six to combo guards
that can probably get ten points a game at the
(23:03):
high major level, but can't help you win because who
do they guard if they can't play the point and
they can only guard the point, and you're playing against
Duke and they've got wings that are six six and
six eight and he's six too, what does he guard? Yeah, no,
it's and the people I think they just look at
box scores. I look at total points, and that does
(23:25):
not I actually thought, you know, like, but let me
just go back to last night. Oboji is the m
v P and I thought my cork was great, But
what Obaji did defensively was unbelievable, Like he was remarkable defense.
And that's really hard to quantify for somebody who's not
really intently watching watching the game. Um. So, so you
(23:48):
guys are building it, but what can be taken from
Like you said, you saw mcdonaldall Americans at Miami. This
is not people forget Miamie did not have a basketball
like twenty years right, non existent. Um and those facilities
dice and on campus again, it's not a college for
(24:09):
basketball town. Theer say, what's that? How did you? How
did you get that going? How do you the recruiting
machine going when you don't have a history, when you
have fan support, but it was a crazy fan support
and you're in that league which is murderers, Bro, how
did you get that going? Yeah, it's funny. When coach
took the job, I think he thought it was a
really good league and then all of a sudden we
(24:30):
had Louisville pit Noter Dame and Terracuse. You're like, oh
my god, like this just became a ridiculous league. And
uh no, I listen. I think, um first, as I said,
you gotta get a little lucky, right, you gotta you
gotta get off to a good start, and we had
a core and then we had Shane and all of
a sudden, what I learned is at the mid major level,
(24:51):
a lot of times it was selling what you have
our facility or whatever, you know, our locker room and arena.
You know, when you get to the high major level,
everyone is so focused on being a pro style style
of play and and and development like, and so we
were able to tell this little development story starting with
(25:14):
the guys we inherited. So like Kenny Kaji goes from
being you know, doesn't really play at all, doesn't take
a three, doesn't make a three in his first two
years at Florida to making like sixty three's for us
his senior year, you know. And Shane Larkin goes from
being nine eight on the list to be in the
eighteen pick in the draft, and you start to slowly
build that up and then um, you start to craft
(25:37):
a little bit of like, Okay, this is what our
cel is, this is what this is what we can sell.
And Coach did such an unbelievable job and sort of
galvanizing the community. Uh, we started to get support. Our
administration began to support because they saw the success, and
I think coach became a guy that people looked at
and said, wow, he seems like guys are having fun,
(26:00):
giving a lot of freedom, offensively, great location. And then
I think the transfer thing. You know, we got very lucky.
We win the league and then we lose Shane to
the draft in like sixteen years, and then we got
Angel Rodriguez and Shelton McClellan to sit out, and so
the next group was just okay. We had an okay year,
a great group of guys, but we knew we had
(26:22):
Angel and Shane to all conference players sitting out and
and trying to develop them in the off season. I
mean in the in the in the red shirt year.
You also you also get a chance in practice. Most
guys who transfer, they weren't the go to score, right,
they weren't playing enough wherever they were. That's why they
trans You know, some get in trouble raids, some get homesick,
(26:46):
and of course some transferrupt. Even the transfer up, I
think it helps because you assimilar to the speed athletics
and the morning like every red shirt we ever had
in practice, I've received practice the coach tiles and like
you use everything one of these practices to try and
you know, try and be a killer, go get buckets.
It helps the level of your practice, right, but also
(27:06):
helps that guy kind of because what what what happens
oftentimes is you lose your confidence. You know, you just do.
You go to a place and you think you're really good,
and then you don't play. And most of the time
it's your own fault. You're not playing like I'm not
I'm not omitting that, but whatever it is, you lose
your confidence and that year is needed to assimilate to
(27:28):
the school, to the program at his strength development, but
also regain your confidence. I think it's one of those
um I had a coach tell me it's called the
big called it the billis rule, right because you can
transport you want not sit out that somehow it's a
bad thing. I think we're totally missing the bota on
that that part the portal was. The portal is rough.
(27:49):
But I think that having a guy sit out and
maintain that year, I would. I think it's just pushed
for that. I don't know where the pushback would be.
It feels like more in the media than anything else.
You know, well, the coach leaves that a player, coaching
player or not people, it's not the same thing. Yeah,
And I think there's a question of what's right and
I don't. I'm not. I don't. I don't know what's right.
(28:09):
And I mean, I think the coach lead thing is
funny because I just signed a contract. Like there's there's
some financial repercussions if I just decided to walk away there, right,
but like you have you have you buy it, right
as a player doesn't have to do a playout and
now they don't have to sit out. That doesn't But
on the other hand, yeah, there's there are some benefits
of sitting out. And and my most concerned with graduation.
(28:30):
I feel like, you know, the five years all our
guys it was just they graduated, which is the ultimate
goal here. Who's the best? Give me the Give me
the best story of a guy who when you first recruited,
when he first got there, you're like, yikes. And then
four or five years later he walks and oh, I
mean your quand Newton he was a really good player
(28:53):
from Philly, ultimately scoring in the Philadelphia Catholic League. Um,
I love them, you know, Coach larn Aga, Uh, I
mean it makes you almost here up when you talk
about it. But his mom came out his official visit,
and uh, she was a great lady and she you know,
Jaquan was from Philly, tough, a little bit of a
(29:13):
tough background him, and he was a great kid. And
his mom basically grabbed Mrs Laranagan and Coach Larnagan said like, hey,
I'm not gonna be here and like, no, I know,
like you're you're gonna be in Phillies. No, I have cancer.
You know, I'm I'm I'm probably not gonna be here,
and you need you know, uh, you need you know
if I send Kuan here, you're gonna have to take
(29:34):
care of him. And Jaquan's mom passed away. Um, I
think right before the state championship game, and he went
to practice. He played in the game and won the
state championship and he came to Miami and he scored
about twelve hundred points. We won like a hundred games
in the time he was here. He was a great,
great player for us. And uh, and yet you know,
(29:56):
like Kwan hated school, I'm not gonna if In fact,
it's funny he texted me the other day when we
got the job and said, hey, I'm coming on your staff.
I said, yeah, you're gonna be in charge of making
sure everybody goes to class. And you know he was laughing,
but uh, you know, I don't think there was a
dry eye in the house when we took pictures with
him with his cap and gown from you know, top
fifties school in the country. Uh, you know, the day graduation.
(30:20):
You know. So there's a lot of stories like that,
and you know that's what coach is so good at.
I mean, he's just you know, if I could be
that way for guys, I you know, that would be
that would be the success, right, more of the wins
and losses. You know, I'm saying that people should know
about Jim Laronega that's allowed him to be this successful
(30:42):
for this amount of time in the sport basketballs Well,
I mean, first of all, you know, let's he's got
seven I mean, he should be in the Hall of Fame.
He got seven hundred. He's gonna have seven hundred women's
plus when this is all over, whenever that is, and
he's done it at Poland Green George Mason in Miami,
you think, let's think about that, he's gone to you know,
(31:04):
the final four around the thirty two uh two Sweet
sixteen's Elite eight, Um, you know, just incredible. Uh, there's
nobody that loves basketball more than Jim Ernegie is a
great player. Uh. He he wakes up every day. He
has no hobbies. He likes going to movies. That's about it.
(31:25):
He's a basketball guy. He watches every game. Obviously, his
sons and assistant in the NBA watches like the NBA games,
He watches college games. He just has an incredible thirst
for knowledge, even at his age about you know, about
the game. And uh, that's just nobody that is more
of a basketball guy lifer uh than he. And his
(31:48):
ability to view the game from the perspective probably like
you have, like as a really good player, somebody who's
a good player, Like that's how he views the game.
So I think it's very easy for guys to play
for him if you're a really good player. Jim Roneg
is like the guy you want to play for because
he's viewing it from the lens of of the really
(32:08):
good player. You know, he left Providence. He's like top
five in every category, you know. Um, so yeah, I
mean it's just his his his passion is unmatched for
for basketball. This is not this is not your first
head coaching interview, your first time. You got close. Yeah,
uh if if if a lot of the sister coaches
(32:29):
and this, if you were now that you've accomplished that
you've got the first head coaching job, what would your
advice be going into an interview with a zoo call? Yeah,
and I'm the wrong guy, right because like I, um,
I think being yourself and for me, it was the
only way I could do it. You know, Uh, I'm
(32:52):
much more of conversationalist. I guess like not, I don't
I'm not scripted. I'm probably not like as I don't know.
I didn't come in there with the whole portfolio polished. No, yeah,
I don't know. Pop Paul is yeah, the portfolio. You're
right because I did that once and I walked away
(33:14):
on that wasn't me right as me as this? Yeah,
I mean like I I can I can pretty much
um and I'm not I can pretty much sit in
a room with almost anybody. UM. And I've got friends
in all walks of life and I think that people
know that about me. But uh, if I go in
there and try to uh script something that's that's not
gonna be as good. And uh, I always felt like
(33:38):
if you were yourself, they were either going to like
you or they didn't or they didn't like you, and
that was that. You know, I was never trying to
fool anybody or trick anybody, you know, into into hiring me.
So it was like, it's not arrogant, it's just I'm
not good at not being me, So I just didn't try.
You know, I don't know that that's good advice, by
(33:59):
the way, I'm no, I actually think it's obviously think
I actually think it's fantastic a much because so often
times people want to know, like what's the what's the secret?
And you know, my thing was, whenever I've interviewed it,
I understand there's always going to be fighting theav and coach.
So you try and present to them like Okay, well
(34:19):
here's how it would look and here's how it feels.
But it has to I'm just you know, it's like
it loses who I am and what I am as
a communicator. When it's like you said, like you can
sit around with anybody and talk with anybody and find
some sort of common ground and an ability to have
a conversation and related to why they should be kind
(34:41):
of in on you. Uh, are your parents still alive? Yes,
still alive? You you got the job dad? Mom? I
remember your first your first job was a no page job. Well,
I mean, what do they I mean, like, look, you've
done other things that I'm sure they're excited for. Yeah,
but this is this is twenty years Yeah, everybody's excited.
(35:04):
What was the conversation? Like, are you sure this is
what you want? You know that my parents are like
not like you know, they're the opposite of the current
day basketball parents. You know, they're like not in the
stands telling me what to do whatever, Like, hey, you know,
you got a pretty good at Miami. You sure, sure,
just what you want? And yeah, okay, all right, good,
(35:25):
that's good. My parents are pretty low ky and it's
they're not They won't be coaching me from the stands.
I can promise you that. How do you approach the portal?
What's your portal plan? Like, you know, talking about individual pleasure,
but it's a it's a tricky kind of new rule.
What's your what's your plan? And thoughts are yeah, it's um,
(35:46):
it's a good question. You know, I think without giving
out too many state secrets, I mean, I think there's
some analytics behind how you evaluate some guys. Um. I think, Um,
you know what I do find Doug is what works
for me and probably works for most coaches. Going back
(36:06):
to seriousness of approach, right is like an older guy
who's serious is that guy is probably a little bit
more fun to coach at times? Right? So, um, I
think sometimes but looks sometimes you get It's like it's
like sometimes it's like you have a VCR that somebody
(36:28):
else program right now you have like five that in
previous program. Now at least they play college basketball and
so they understand a lot of stuff. But there's also
you know, we all have different ways of practicing. I
know one, you know there are some programs that that
only plays own you gotta teach guy some programs that
(36:51):
I think you know, so there's lots of difference thing
some level of continuity within your program while making the
portal work for you and not again Stew I think
is is so important. Um And yeah, I think to
your point, like we've been lucky enough where we have
so many good ones. You know that this year that
(37:12):
Charlie Moore, Kim mcgusty, Jordan Miller, like, give me those
guys every every day because they were just such great
guys and worked their butts off, and um, I'm hopeful
that you know some combination evaluating the character, the statistics,
the situation and all that. But how do you how
do you evaluate the character when you have such a
(37:33):
short period of time? Right like you it feels like, yeah,
I mean you do a very deep dive of intel,
almost like the NBA we would evaluate you know. In fact,
there are times with some of them are you know,
we had number of guys in the Big twelve where
I'm calling NBA scouts about them and saying, okay, what
do you what did you see? Remember when we recruited
(37:56):
Sheldon McClellan was a great player one up in the NBA.
Got got hurt, but probably would be in the NBA
today if he if he didn't tears a Killings. Yeah,
he's a great player, so talented. Yeah, yeah, I got
like two thousand points in college on nine shots a game.
You know. It was just a really good player. And
it was with the Wizards. Played a year and then
the second year got hurt in training camp. Toris Achilles
(38:17):
and so um. But I remember having to sit down
with him after we got him. We decided taking him.
Thank god we took him. Um, and I said, hey,
I you know, I talk to some people and I'm
not gonna tell you who, but like, your body language
is terrible. And he's like, what did they look at that? Yeah,
well here's the report from this team X. Like, you know,
we gotta fix this if you think you want to
(38:38):
play in the NBA and all that. So um, yeah,
I think just the amount of quick intel and I
know people say, yeah, it seems like not a lot
of time. But if you've been in the business long enough,
you know who to trust. You can you know one
of the things that is talking to opposing coaches, right like, hey, Doug,
like you played against this guy twice. What do you think,
Oh man, you know you should take him. That type
(38:59):
of thing. Now you can put together staff. What's that process? Like,
how do you go about I'm working on it now? Yeah,
I mean, um, you know, I think you build it
like a team, right, Like you get one guy and
then that okay, we have this. Now we've got to
compliment him with somebody else and compliment the next guy,
you know, things like that. So yeah, I don't think
(39:20):
it's at least for me. It wasn't like, hey, I
got three guys waiting in the wings. They're all showing
up on the first day. Uh. You know, obviously like
recruiting in some ways because the guys that you want,
you know, they have probably they probably have good jobs,
and so you're trying to convince them to come with you.
The good thing is, you know, probably similar to l A. Uh,
there's a million basketball people from d C that want
(39:42):
to come home or you know, be around here. So
not that not that the whole staff will be that
from there here, but it's obviously desirable place because of
the you know, they recruiting base and the location. So
you didn't have like a like a defined list of no, yeah, no,
you have no you have guys. Yeah, you have guys,
and you talk to them, but you're trying build the
best staff for you know, GW might not be the
(40:03):
best staff for somewhere else. You know, is there anything
like h Miller sub I know it's crazy. Yeah, yeah,
it's just I think he used to write down I mean, hey,
this guy needs to play twenty seven minutes. This guy
is gonna play thirty one minutes. This guy is gonna
play twelve minutes, and give it to pastor Knacker whoever
(40:24):
was with him, and and they would stubb coach, I
would say, and I would something was the hardest thing
for the head coach, right because you're you're trying to
especially in the two half game like the four quarters, right,
probably makes it a little bit easier in terms of, hey,
when you're going with guys and things like that. But
because we're we've got these halves, it's it's it's so
interesting to think through that. You know, what do you think?
(40:47):
I think it's probably good. I think the closer we
get to the FEBA game, you know it is probably
a good thing. You know what, I really you know, people,
I really like it's on the offensive rebound, the reset.
It's awesome when you when I coach it, you know,
you don't have time to come out and we set
anything like that, So you coach it too. That's the
best time to hit a dig three to get offensive rebound.
(41:08):
The whole you know, the defense is sunk in, you
kick out, you hit three. It just speed it up.
I had Spens rule I think that they need an
The other one I like is the offense duway with
offensive best in your parents, you guys competing at the hoop.
I'm okay with the offensive defensive basket aperience. I'm the solar. Yeah,
I agreed. Yeah, I think the other one too is um,
(41:29):
you know, the advance. You know, if we've won a
game because somebody threw it the length of the court
and we tipped it or guy missed a crazy shot
or whatever, that I like not advancing, you know, but
like obviously the advance makes it a little bit more
exciting at the end of the game. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know. I I kind of like it the
way it is, but I'm willing to agree with you.
(41:51):
It's there's so many fun a t as you can run,
there's so many more things that seemed possible. But you're
also like giving a free pass to half the court.
You know that one's that one's side, but but the
other but the other side too. It is And I
know just because my brothers spent the last fears to
the woman's side. Coaches pocket those timeouts because they know
they could because I must save them for advancing. So
(42:13):
sometimes it does actually speed up the game organically, and
that guys are you know, they're hey or women whatever
thinking about those last couple of time outs, whereas the
NBA you have just so many time outs it doesn't
really matter. I don't even know how. It seems like
they get team time outs. They have no they have
no under add of bounds plays, like all their you know,
you know, it's all you know, it's all side it's
(42:35):
all side out. Um, what about So, how do you
want to coach? Like, what are the things that you
want to do? You've been waiting this whole time. They like,
I got my own team. I've been sitting there the
whole time. Just again, you're not giving away trade secrets,
but a couple of things that you want to do
that are unique to George Washington. Yeah, I mean, honestly,
I think I think, again, what we've done at Miami,
(42:59):
I feel like, you know, coaches lead and I've had
a big impact. So I'm not gonna you know, I
don't think I'm gonna change like so drastically. Um, I
think a lot of the things that we've been able
to implement throughout the years, and we've evolved towards uh,
you know, maybe what you did ten years ago you
feel like, you know what, I've found a better way
(43:19):
and and and so yeah, I don't think there's anything
so unique to what I would want to do. UM.
I just think, as as we talked about the other day,
like I think you gotta eliminate losing before you can
start to think about winning, right, and so you know,
trying to trying to be in a situation where you
do things that are you know, playing winning back. I
(43:39):
talked to jeff An Gundi the other day about this,
um a little bit, and I thought he had a
great He's like, hey, as the head coach, like you
can't worry about the other teams. You can't worry about
you know, uh a lot of things like you have
to wear your job is to make sure your team.
Winning basketball doesn't mean you win, but you're playing winning basketball.
What does that mean? You know, taking the ball and
(44:00):
playing hard and defending your position and um, you know, uh,
you know, I a belief that you should play uh,
sharing the ball and playing for each other and those things.
And I know they're big picture things, UM, but it's
like a lot of teams don't do that that's why
they lose. Yes, some things, but I'm just more interested
(44:23):
in how you implement, is the way to implement, way
to follow up there thought of hey, I've always I've
always wanted to do this. Yeah, well, you know, I
think there's a lot of skill acquisition science that's probably
like in the last uh probably only thirty forty years
(44:44):
that have sort of come up. And the one thing
I've always, um, I thought about and now there's a
lot of talk about this. I'm sure you've paid attention
to some of this stuff. Like there are things that
we do in coaching that a lot of people do,
and the only reason why we do them is because
in nineteen fifty, like coach I but did him you
(45:04):
know whatever in nineteen whatever year he coach right, Like
we do this and just because coaches do him right.
And then you start to read the science in the
acquisition piece and you're saying like, hmm, I don't know,
that seems very different than than what we do. And
so I think as a coach, maybe in today's day
and age, you're trying to use some of this research
(45:25):
and some of this science that is now become more
prevalent and say how do we crafty, give me, give
me one thing that drives you crazy that we have
always done that we also do Oh man, I mean
now I'm gonna get myself in trouble. Not h no, no, no, Like, okay,
I hate dummy offense. Um yeah, I mean it's not
(45:48):
to say we wouldn't do dummy offense, but I'm not
a big dummy offense guy. Uh. It's like always teaching
five on five, always teaching five on five, well not
always five on five, but you have to like, this
is a puzzle, this is perception action, right. Uh, You've
got to see the bodies out there to evaluate your
decision making and then five on oh right, it's just
(46:11):
not how the game is played. So you know you
can use five on oh too, you know, install something
or you know, maybe the day of the game to
just kind of move with some pace and get the ball.
But like if you think, again, I'm I've never coached,
well I've coached two games on one on one, so
but but there's there's great coaches that probably do five
and all the time. But I think, um, see pattern recognition.
(46:35):
You have to have the whole pattern for that to happen, right,
So having the I've always found that playing five on
five and and against defense is how guys are able
to perceive and make better decisions. It's interesting. I my
a guy who actually put it heads with as a
coach is named Tron Druker. He coaches I think he
coaches the women's Israeli women's. Actually he was my coach
(46:57):
and me run on. But I am really enjoyed his
act and I enjoyed practices because they're all five and five?
Is it? You know? We played like it was five
and five every day and everything that he put in
because the games played five on five game Yes, yeah,
And I think you make it great. It's way more
fun to play. And and then the you know, the
question is you know, the older of the coach, the
(47:18):
more they stopped at, how much do you stop that
you correct? But you can also when you're I love
that when you're pluting something in you can show them
not just the what, but also the why. You know,
so don't have to conceptualize the why. They can see
the why. Is that a fair estimation? What you can say? Yeah?
I think the best example I can give it. I
read this in a book by Doug Lemof who's author's
(47:40):
written a bunch of teaching books. Tonight, I'm sure people
listening to this podcast and maybe heard of him or
listen to him or read his book about coaching. But
they brought these uh chess masters in, like ten chess masters,
and they had ten chess boards out there, and then
they and they asked them to look at the chess
boards for like ten minutes, and they left the room.
(48:00):
And then they brought in like novice chess players, and
they asked them to look at the chess boards, and
and then they asked them to leave the room, and
they came back and said, hey, can you recreate the boards?
So of course who did a better job, right, the
chess masters? And so people would say, oh wow, they
at least they got photographic memories and all that. We'll
hold on a second. What the boards were aligned? As
(48:21):
we're great chess matches in history, like what those pieces
look like in that particular great chess match in history. Right.
Then they came in and they did it again, and
they did h randomly selected pieces all over the boards.
They brought the masters in, they left, they brought the
novice in, they left, they came back. Who did it better.
(48:44):
Nobody did it better. There was no distinction because the
masters have this long term memory base that they can
draw from pattern recognition, things that they've seen. But once
you ran themized it, nobody knew the difference. It's the
reason why you can watch plays that you've seen and
(49:06):
you know what they are, and somebody who kind of
knows basketball he can't name what they are. So it's
the same thing with the players. If we've only got
half the chessboard out there, will they will they will?
They encoded in their long term memory long enough you know,
I don't know, Probably not okay, So I like it.
So dummy, offense, aren't giving you one more? One more threre? Like,
oh my goodness, Oh my goodness, Um, are you gonna
(49:31):
run line? Are you gonna like? I've seen? Like conditioning
that he the exception of Christmas break. We never conditioned practically.
If you've got hard nothing practice, you don't need it.
Some coaches are some coaches are conditioning nuts, you know,
some guys, I think guys, Yeah, John was how I
used to sprit to to get water. Four quarters of
(49:52):
practice and at the end of one quarter you had
to run and then you water and you do at
the end of all four Yeah, well one interesting one. Again.
I don't know if I was doing as you're bringing
up all these sort of uh you know, sort of
idiosyncrasy videosyncrasies of coaching. Like one time we used to
do this a little bit, and somebody sort of suggested
(50:14):
it made sense, like should you have halftime of practice? Yeah, halftime,
You have half time in the games. Wouldn't you just
have halftime and practice, like, hey, we go for if
we're gonna practice an hour and a half, like at
forty five minutes, like we're gonna go sit down somewhere
and watch film or talk or whatever. The problem is
again you get into the logistics. It's all good in theory, right,
but as a player, now I gotta get you loose again.
(50:38):
So we're not practicing for an hour and forty five minutes.
If we sit down, we gotta probably get up and
do something to get loose again. Line lapses one that
could go that could go away. You know if I
never did two line lamps again, Oh, two line laps
right right, I've actually done this in practice everything I
used to do that to get pumped up. All right,
let's cool, let's go down. Let's go down. Uh three man,
(51:00):
we've three man? I mean, when do you do that?
Throwing it to the wig and then ran behind the guy? Like,
I don't know, Um, three on two, two to the two?
I want, how many times in your career have you
come down and it's been three guys and then two
guys right in the middle of the lane and then
you threw it and then somebody went there and threw
it right back, Like, I don't know. I'm just asking
(51:24):
questions I don't have. I don't have any. You're a
great play like, I mean, yeah, you want to recreate
something that you're gonna you're gonna see I do like
three on three on three, I love on four and
four on four. I think those are always always fun
and always fun and concluded, Um, okay, what about scheduling
your idea of scheduling get expectations the league? How the
(51:44):
league schedules? Um, you have you budget, but I guess
it's all part of your new job. What's your thoughts
on how you want your schedule? Well, you know, the
A ten has a scheduling policy that I need to
learn a little bit. In fact, I'm on a call
today about it. So I need to wrap my brain
around a little bit. I think for everybody in scheduling
these days, Um, you know we got two at large
(52:08):
bids at George Mason and which is you know, not
that easy to do, right and uh, Eric Conchole you
can ask him about he did our schedule at George Mason.
And you know, we were obviously trying to figure out
the r p I and how to get our best
RPI and some of it is your lead right the
CIA our last year there when when we we won
(52:28):
fifteen straight games in the regular season and won the league.
But you know Old Dominion got in and lost a
butler at the buzzer, we beat Villanova and VCU, who
finished fourth, went to the final four, So like the
league was great, um, But now I think for everybody
trying to understand the net and and and and so
did those predictive metrics and how they play into uh,
(52:51):
you know, getting in the tournament or having a good
net or having a good r p I. Is everyone's
sort of trying to learn that right now. So I
can't speak intelligently on that piece because I think everybody's
trying to think it through you know, last thing, what
do you want? Um, when I see your team play
in for seven eight months? What should I walk away
(53:12):
from the gym Our Bucks Center. I've been there a bunch, right,
it's really I mean historic in that sense. Yeah, it's
the Smith Center. It's Smith Center. But they have the
red chair for for red which is awesome. You know
that does the red chair in the stands. Yeah, that's
that's very cool. So what do I what should I
walk away? Year one? Saying about your prob Yeah, I
(53:34):
would just say that we, um, we play really hard.
I know it's just cliche. Uh. We we defend and
we play for each other, take good shots. Alright. See
yesterday it was day one you got on the court
with the fellas. Day two is what a bunch of
more administrative things, all the different things you have to do,
(53:55):
and then also getting on the court again today. So
that's the best part of the day. Everything else is
you know, hectic, but when you're on the court, obviously
you you know, you enjoy it. Everything else is the job, right, Yeah,
you know, honestly, everything else is what you get paid for.
It's it's like they say this in morning radio, like
you're not actually getting paid to the show. You're getting
paid to get up every day, right, and you're not
(54:17):
actually getting paid to coach. You're getting paid for all
of the other stuff. It's a it's a great way
to look at it. I agree. Well, thanks to the
inside and last night. I love the storytelling and you've
been incredibly genterous for your times. Thank you so much, Doug,
I appreciate brother. Thanks so much. All right, there you
(54:37):
go by the all ball in the books. You know,
the really interesting guy getting a brand new job and
your perspective that you didn't get anywhere else. Remember listen
to dougall and Show daily on the I Heart Radio
app Radio dot com or Serious Sex m to seventeen
the meantime, remember somebody want on Somebody find interesting in
(54:58):
our question you want to answer? Feel free reach out
on Twitter at album show, Instagram, aat album Show with
Doug Golbaum, Showl fan page on Facebook. Thanks so much
for listening to Murder download rate, write a review you
and tell a friend he'll be afraid to reach you.
The sucker sending along to somebody because Chris is awesome.
I'm Doug Goby and this is all gone
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