All Ball - Longwood HC Griff Aldrich on Back-to-Back Tourney Berths, UMBC’s UVA 16/1 Shocker, Longwood Rebuild - All Ball with Doug Gottlieb

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Well, welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlie. This is all All where.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
We give you the greatest stories in mostly in basketball,
but all in sports. The stories make the stories.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Oh I love that.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
I think that's our new Well, that's Michael's who who
edits this?

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Like?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
I think that's our new kind of catchphrase. The stories
are the stories.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Let that kind of ruminate them out into your brain
while we figured out and listen to Griff Aldridge. So
we're on championship week or in championship week, Yeah, in
championship week would be the proper English. And most of
the basketball community is arguing a couple of things, right,
who's in who's out? Oh, that's always fun. Who's in,

(00:52):
who's out? And I have a quick thought on that
that I'll share with you at the end. And of
course who's getting fired and who's going where? And it's
interesting when you when you get to your thirties to
forties and you've been in this business a long time,

(01:14):
and some of it is the connectivity of the sport,
some of it is the connectivity of the profession. Some
of it is what we're doing here on All Ball
where you really get to know, people get to know people,
and I've done a bad job of keeping up with
Mike Hopkins in terms of being boys. He was one
of the guys I looked up to when I was

(01:35):
a kid. He played my dad in Slamming Jam, which
was the big spring in Summer League, and then in
au of course played from modern day high school for
going to Syracuse.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Becoming an assistant coach.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
The the head coach designate as well, and then most
recently head coach at Washington. But he lost his job yesterday.
And it's really always interesting, you know, when you he
had kind of an emotional speech in front of the
media where he talked about the people at Washington, how
much he really was going to miss those people, and

(02:10):
I think it's look, the Kenny Payne thing is, it's
just a clown show.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
I mean you if you listen to his.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
When he was asked why he should come back, he
had some bizarre answer about the Titanic and I'm gonna
i'ma be tracking who's jumping off the Titanic, Like, dude,
do you not know the fucking Titanic's at the bottom
of the ocean.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
It's not the reference that you wanted. To make.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
But yes, that was the Titanic. That was a sinking
ship that he went down with it. It's actually probably
a really accurate portrayal of Louisville hoops.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
But it's not.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
In any way the remarks of somebody who should stay
as Louisville head coach. And look, I'm not sitting here
going to tell you that Mike Hopkins did some spectacular
job at Washington.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Washington's a great job. It's tricky.

Speaker 2 (03:03):
Obviously, switching the Big ten is gonna be interesting. There's
a new athletic director from the one that hired him. Like,
there's a lot to it. But none of this has
anything to do with keeping your job or losing your job.
It has to do with, you know the fact that
when you do get fired, that's it, right, Like you're

(03:25):
a former coach there occasionally can go back whatever. But
your family's moving, All the families are moving, everybody's losing
their job.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
It's not a happy time.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
And you know, I would say there are times in
which I've had this in my life where you don't
have the empathy for somebody losing their job and the
understanding of all the different things that go with it.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
But maybe some of that is in relation to how
they handle their eggs.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Anyway, I was watching Mike Hopkins yesterday and the guy
I've known for holy crap, I'm old almost forty years
and thinking, thinking like this is the worst part of
what we do, which is when you're the head coach
of a university university's basket program, you are a paid ambassador.

(04:14):
You're supposed to know everything about that school and love
and preach everything about that school and all the great
things about it. And the crazy part about it is
when it's over. Granted, he made a lot of money,
and you know, if you're smart with your money, sell
your house. You know you kept a bunch of your money,

(04:34):
you're gonna be good. Like you know, these assistant coaches
a little bit different, but head coaches you should be good.
On the other hand, like all that ambassadorship, it could
be completely fake and it could go out the window
and you could turn into just, you know, the anti ambassador.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
But the best of the best of people do not.
And Hop is a guy who's one of those really
good people. Be interested.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
See Dan Monson was in his job after seventeen years
at Lombie State. Does hop have a soft landing back
at Lombey State, which would be really weird coming full
circle considering actually he played for my dad and my
dad was an assistant Lombie State until eighty four when
they lost their jobs. But I guess this is it's

(05:21):
not a plea, it's just a statement of respect. You know,
when these head coaches get fired, many of them get
a golden parachute to walk away. Some do not, I
guarantee the assistant coaches most do not. And the stories
make the stories. So when you hear the stories that

(05:45):
we share on All Ball, understand these are the people
behind the coaches on the sidelines and the X and
o's that we discuss that they're real people. And my
guest today is a perfect example. His name is Griff Aldridge.
He's the head coach of Longwood University. Longwood was at

(06:08):
five seed and now they're in the NCAA Tournament. I
was incredibly impressed with how they played against unc Asheville
after upsetting High Point beaten high Point. It was the
best team in their league for a second time in
like two weeks. And the beating high Point out high
Point where the where the tournament was played.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
The Big South tournament was played.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
But if you remember Griff Aldridge's story the first time
they went to the NCAA tournament two years ago, you'd
know that there's a lot more to them than just
a basketball coach. I feel like I could tease it,
but why it's that good.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
Here's a guy.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
I'll just give you the really that the top headline
walked away from a six figure job as a lawyer
in Houston to be the director of basketball operations at
umb You see Marilyn Baltimore County from there.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Of course they had the incredible upset of Virginia.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Of course we're going to talk about that, and now
he's taking Longwood to their second NCAA tournament.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
But the stories make the story. Here's my chat with
Griff Aldrich.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Griff, I got a chance to obviously call your guy
game on Sunday, and it's really an interesting group. You
guys started out so well and then you hit a
patch in the middle.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
What happened?

Speaker 3 (07:33):
You know? I honestly think I think it was a
combination of factors. I think number one, a lot of
people don't realize we lost a bunch of guys who
played critical roles last year. You know, probably like everybody
you know, brought in new new guys. A bunch of

(07:54):
the new guys that we brought in, you know, I
think oftentimes, especially at our level, you know, people when
they're thinking about transfers, they're oftentimes thinking about Power five guys,
guys who've already played well, and then they're just slotting
into a new system, you know, when you come down
to our level. Yeah, sometimes guys just immediately blossome. But

(08:16):
then I do think they're guys who haven't played. You know.
We we had several guys who hadn't played for years,
and now all of a sudden, they're not on the
scout team. What they do in practice actually matters.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Yeah, so, and I want to get to the roster construction. Second,
but first, over, your left shoulder is arguably my favorite
poster I ever got as a kid.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, okay, so again, you grew up in Virginia, correct?

Speaker 3 (08:48):
Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Was that?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Did you get in a Virginia basketball camp? Like? Where
did you get because.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
I got it at the Virginia Wesleyan the Don forsythe
basketball camp. Uh and uh, I think it's a converse. Yeah,
it's a converse converse.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
So that that poster. I know it is, don't we
look at I know what the words it says. It
makes me stick when I see a guy just watch
it go out a pound.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:15):
And there was some cool Converse posters, right, you had
the Iceman Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Uh, you had the Doctor is Always in Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, let's see here they and used to get those
at the end of camp.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
You get like a Converse poster at the inn of camp.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (09:28):
And I have that one.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
That one's still hanging in my my childhood bedroom as well.
That one the Jordan Wings Yeah, and then the Jordan
Best on Earth, Best on Mars. And I had a
John Stockton poster.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yeah, this one might for some reason, my mother actually
mad it. So it's got like a matt behind it
and you can't see, but it's it's it's beat the
living hell. Uh. And I had it. I just took
it to college with may. I took it to law school.
It's just kind of gone with me and my wife,

(10:03):
you know, was like, can we please throw this away?
I was like no, So it's.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
That no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
No, sat in the garage. And then finally when I
got to be a basketball coach and actually had an
office as a basketball coach, I was like, yeah, put
this bad boy up. But in some way, in some
ways that it really epitomizes how, you know, we want
to play. I mean, you know, I think it's it's

(10:30):
probably a little bit of my personality. But also really
and again I think that's more coincidence than you know,
if I had the doctor, if I had the Iceman,
if I had the George Gervin poster, it'd be up to.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, they're so cool back in the day, I can
Will we ever have good basketball camps again?

Speaker 3 (10:53):
No? Now AAU has ruined it. AAU has ruined it,
and trainers and and all of that. It's it's it's
really interesting. I mean you'll you'll like we used to
go to defensive stations and you are actually taught the
Sheldrome like I would go to basketball camp. I'm sure

(11:14):
you did two, three, four, five weeks a summer and
you knew sheldne you knew you know, seeball in man,
you know, and uh, you know we have to teach that,
you know at Longwood when when new guys get.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Here, obviously now there's three hundred and sixty plus Division
one teams. When you and I were playing. You know,
I don't I don't know how many. There were probably
two hundred, I guess.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
So so is it when you and you were at
Hampton City, which is widely considered one of the elite
Division three programs. Yeah, it was at the right so
right at that but I know and at this time,
it's different that at that time was that level Longwood level.
It's hard because then as opposed to now, But is

(12:03):
that fair? That's really like you said you played divisions,
they're like, oh, like as actually just as good as
any of the mid to low level the ones.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
I think. So, I mean, I think, you know, if
you set aside players today with their athleticism and their
size compared to what we experienced, you know, the game's
just so different. But I think, you know, on a
relative basis, yes, like we you know, William and Mary

(12:31):
was in the Colonial Conference. I guess they still are,
but you know that was back when George Mason and
Vcu and Richmond all were in there, and and Hampton Sydney.
We played William and Marion at William and Marion beat him,
and so you know that was Yeah, I mean, I

(12:53):
think we were a Division one level, you know program,
you know, certainly low. You know, we've we've finished in
the Elite eight. I think one year lost to Platteville
when Bo Ryan was there and had his dynasty going,
and you know that it was I actually somebody sent
me a video this is a couple of years ago

(13:16):
of some of our old footage, and I was like, damn,
we were good. Like the balls pop in, you know,
there's you know, we ran the old Carolina pass and
screen away and slip and curl and you know, and
it's just so so hard hard to play against, and
a bunch of really smart players and uh, you know,

(13:40):
not a lot of guys who were dunking, but a
lot of guys who could shoot and pass and dribble.
And so it was it was fun.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
Will the motion offense have returned?

Speaker 3 (13:52):
You know? I I honestly it's funny. Our staff every
year it feels like there is like I don't know
if you see this, but I feel like there's like
a system of the year. Like a couple of years ago,
it was that old you know, we call it buffalo
the you know the two posts, you know, continuity offense.

(14:15):
The opposite post lifts and goes into an empty side
ball screen and then you reverse it and all of
that felt like everybody was doing that, And then felt
like last year, at least in the in the teams
we were playing, it was floppy, you know, the pin
downs and playing off that. This year it feels like

(14:36):
there's a lot of stagger screens. A lot of people
were playing out of stagger screens. Again, you know, maybe
just in at our level, but I think the in it.
Several years ago, I thought it was the ball screen.
Everybody was everybody, and now now I feel like it's

(14:56):
it is a little bit more people are going and
screening away and that's creating problems for people.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
Well, what I saw from you Sunday, and again this
is usually not my not my pattern of how I
love to do this, so forgive me for jumping around
a little bit.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
But what I what I saw Sunday was.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Asheville either switched everything or what like the hard hardhead
tave and trap everything. And I thought your team's overall
prep for it was fantastic. You know the big well,
I mean the big kid, the big Polish kid as Apolla,
who that's the per example what you're talking about where
like he was at Utah staight, yes, but he never played.

(15:43):
And I don't think people unders say, you don't just
automatically become this awesome you know, high high mid major level,
low high major level players in there watching other dudes.
It's just a completely different your body and by the way,
your your body's not used to it.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Well, I think the bigger thing is also your mental
because you've been beaten up confidence wise for a couple
of years.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
And well, and then and then you come down and
also down there's some guys beating up. But some guys
they have that indelible self confidence, right, yes, but they
think that because it's a lower level, that they're just
going to roll it out and dominate.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Like, yeah, it doesn't doesn't work that way.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
I think that's right. We had, uh, we had a kid,
Justin Hill a couple of years ago who turned out
he's now at Georgia. He was the first team and
you know, he and I were laughing because he said,
you know, when I got here, I thought, man, I'm
gonna be you mister everything, and then dude, yeah, and
then he said we were playing pick up the first

(16:47):
week and he said, well, I wonder watch seat on
the bench. I'm going to be because.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
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Speaker 1 (17:07):
It's they're root awake. It's really interesting that.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
I mean, any basketball players mind is interesting, but especially
like the eighteen to twenty three year old guy, and
you know, you think, okay, well, he's played college basketball
for so he knows stuff, and there's just so much
they don't know, and they don't know how to process
as well.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Like that's a good big element to it too.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Well. And I think I also think in a program
like ours, we're very high accountability. We're very we try
to be detail oriented. We try to be execution and
discipline focused, and so we're not free flowing in that
way where hey, we're just gonna you know, we're gonna

(17:53):
run an NBA action and then you guys, I'm gonna
put guys in a position you guys just go go
do you We don't do that, and so then all
of a sudden, it's I think it's that much harder.
You're trying to teach spacing, you're trying to teach. Okay,
hey I need to cut here now, I need to

(18:14):
you know, dive on this situation, and that just takes time.
That takes time.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, So getting back to the champion game, Yeah, you
guys were the Paula was constantly come up the ball
screens with slipping them, right, but you didn't have you
didn't have a short roll, and you have long rolling
and then everybody else kind of flashing behind. And the
first in the first half, you know, they were really
plugging hard on the weak side, so you were skipping
to the weak side corner. And then the second half

(18:43):
they were staying home. So you just constantly had hit
the slip. Man he was he had to be exhausted
getting the ball that much.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yes, well, but he was scoring all the time, so
he was happy.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
All the time. So but what's interesting is, you know
it's like we.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
I'm sure it's because of time to teach, because because
emotion is emotion when run, well, we can't really scout
for it, right, Yeah, And with so many defensive switching
all the time, a really good motion, it's even harder
when you're switching because well, now you can backcut or
curl cut every time, and it makes it really difficult

(19:25):
to play, especially any sort of pressure man in the defense.
I guess I'm like, is it because the kids can't
run it and they can't read, because you don't have
the time when you have a new team to teach it.
And I'm not asking you personally, I'm just saying, why
do you think in general? Because usually we teach offense
as we coach the way we were coached. Now, in

(19:49):
all fairness, I didn't really run emotion offense maybe ever,
like my dad would run like passing game again, like
passing cut kind of Doug mo style, you know, but
I never I knew all the principles of it. And
when I played at Notre Dame John mcclod, we ran
what I would call it two side motion you might
call block remover, but the guys weren't going through a

(20:11):
screener shooter on each side that I was passing either
go through but usually like fake and just I was
just facilitate up top.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
But I'm just wondering, why, uh no one runs it?

Speaker 3 (20:24):
I think I think for a few reasons. I think
the AAU game is is not that way anymore, right,
you know, the AAU game is is all just freelance.
So I think, what what we were talking about before,
kids don't know the game, and so the amount of
time that it takes to try to teach them, I

(20:46):
think it's really hard. Like I remember we that's what
we ran. We ran Carolina's passing game at Hampton Sydney
because Shaver played for Dean Smith. And I remember we
actually ran five on oh without a ball. Yeah, And
and I remember my freshman year, I was like, what

(21:06):
in the world, he what, what are we doing? And
I had no idea what I was doing. You know,
Ryan Odam was my best friend and teammate. He didn't
know what he was doing. You know, we're running into
each other and you know, it just took But then
of course over time, you know, I think exactly what

(21:26):
you've said is it's almost impossible because you know, some
of these other offenses, even like the Princeton offense, well,
there's a there's more or less a subset of variations
that you're going to run in a particular action, you know,
where I think in motion, who the hell knows what

(21:47):
you're gonna do, you know, And that makes that especially
if you have a balanced team. It makes it that
much more difficult, you know, to play against. In my opinion,
I would I.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Would say, again, this is an opinion. You tell me yours,
so you're actually doing it. I would say most coaches
would tell you that it's the players. Yeah, but the
truth is there's a good portion of it where and
I actually agree with this, where coaches want to control
where the ball's going.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
You know, they want to control who's taking shats.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
And the one thing about emotion is, you know, it
feels that you can't because the defense determines what you do.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Right, you have to read the defense.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Now again, my biggest issue is players can't read a defense.
I remember I was talking with a player who I
kind of work with during a season and I said, like,
who is guarding.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
You on that play? Like I don't know? Like what
do you mean? I don't know? I was like, well, okay,
how was he guarding you? He's pressuring me? He's like, no, dude,
you know, no, he was off here. You had a
five on you. He was playing in the lane. Know
he's been room.

Speaker 2 (23:00):
That's That's a jump shot to the point is that
they don't. It takes a while to get to the
place to where they one know who's guarding them and
how to adjusts, then to feel the game, and then
three uh, you know the big one is the secondary defender.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
How is everybody else guarding you?

Speaker 2 (23:19):
But then I also think that there's an element of Yeah,
I coaches like, he'll be open every time in emotion,
and I don't want him open because they'll shoot the ball,
and I don't want him shooting the ball right right,
there's the control asting.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, I think there's I think that's true. I would
actually say our offense, which you know, we're going to
run a set and then we get into what we
call flow and you know, we're basically trying to either
throw it into the post, drive a gap, or get
a ball screen and.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Right, so your your flow game is five out or
occasionally four out one in.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Right, mostly four out one end, occasionally five out.

Speaker 5 (23:58):
If if the like, I would tell you, well, I
would tell you in the prior five years it was
all four round one because I didn't really trust my
fives to catch the ball and they go do something positive,
They would do something just it may not be positive.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
We're all going to watch this pod by the way.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
Yeah, uh, but you know zapala Is, you know European.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Well see, but so the soho again comes wrong when
he catches up top, he dribbles at a wing.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
It's a read, right, they can backcut and the next
guy can fill ya.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
So that's kind of what I run in AAU, which
is I run a five out blow.

Speaker 3 (24:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
We're constantly teaching back cuts.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
And the idea, the idea behind it is like, hey,
if you can't shoot, doesn't matter. If you backcut, they
have to guard you, yes, they have they they have
to honor you on a back cut.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Yes, and uh.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
And it creates kind of constant movement in motion and
then you can make make some calls. That's it was
one of the first times like, oh that say the
blow I run.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
The issue I have with the guy in the post,
and I thought.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
You did a good job of it, is I hate
post catches that for for post ups, for scores, you know,
just an inefficient shot. And then also it's harder to
offensive rebound when you have a guy in between you
and rebound and the ball. And for the most part
you didn't do. What do you teach when the ball
hits the post?

Speaker 3 (25:23):
What do you teach, Well, we do. We call it
a Utah action because we uh you know, watch some
of Quinn Snyder's Utah jazz uh split actions, and so
we're super super original. So we call it utah.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
But what everybody does, but that's basketball one on one, right,
whatever you whoever you steal it from, you give them credit.

Speaker 3 (25:48):
Yeah, And so we try to get good movement. And again,
you know we're talking about you know, guys not understanding
fundamentals from not going to basketball camp. I think there
is something when the ball goes into the post and
it's a good post player. Yeah, everybody freaks out and

(26:11):
and there is something, in my opinion, like everybody's eyes
just go like people don't see ball in man.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Right, Well, that's why it's a great passing condition.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
Yes, and so so we try to get good movement.
And then a lot of times, particularly Zapala has been
doubled and in the post semifinals and finals, he didn't
really get doubled. But we didn't really to your point,
we didn't really throw it into the post a whole lot.
It was a lot of a lot more ball screen

(26:44):
because we never really got got into that. And so
we what we may do is we may come off
a ball screen and throw it back action and then
throw it right in. We'll do that sometimes, so there's
some movement and they're not able to just tee off
on your on set.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Well, what I liked about it was one your prep
for So many coaches have all these great actions, but
then when you start switching, they like the guys just
stand and they don't know what to do, and then
it just becomes, hey, let's find the mismatch and attack.
And the problem with that mismatch and attack. It works
great in the NBA when you have Lebron James and

(27:21):
Kevin Durant, Right, that's a mismatch. When you have a
college kid and a coach, it's just not that big
a mismatch, and it ends up usually being a mid
range pull up contest a jump shot, which is the
exact shot you don't want them taking, you know. Whereas
what you guys were doing was you were moving it
and swinging it and I mean literally.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Living in the paint.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, but not on post touches, on cuts and on drives,
on and on movement, which is kind of the ideal thing, right, yes.

Speaker 3 (27:48):
Yeah, And I think the other thing when they're switching,
unless you're a team that is really prepared to switch
a ton and like that's just what you do. But
if it's just like your alternative defense or alternate you know,
switch it up again, I think defenses start to freak

(28:09):
out a little bit and they're like, oh my gosh,
there's a mismatch. Everybody load real quickly because our point
guard is on the five man and next thing, you know,
we skipped the ball and now we got a long
close out. We're in the paint. And I thought that
happened a good bit too, you know, moving the ball

(28:31):
and finding that finding where somebody was overhelping.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Well also, and again some of it is, you know,
not a great three point shooting team, but it's there's
a there's a discipline discipline to it where when you
guys were skipping, especially to the weak side corner, you
guys were attacking those closeouts instead of shooting. And it
would have no one would have questioned, you know, obviously

(28:57):
each individual player percentage wise, who you are taking. But
those weren't bad shots, but you were turning down good
shots for great shots.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
Yeah, you know, and it was kind of rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Well, and I think the other thing that we did
really well was we did shot fake, and which was
an emphasis for us. Shot fake, get him in the air,
and then we shot fake them at the rim. The
number of times we played off too, yes and got
to the free throw line. And I'll tell you, Doug,
we hadn't done that all year. Like that's all I've

(29:30):
screamed about. So I don't know what happened. We do.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
We credit Villanova for the playing off two of America?
Is that?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Is?

Speaker 1 (29:39):
That? Is that? Who?

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Because it has become a trend, Like I never never
worked on that. Like we used to work at jump
stops when I was a kid and we were I
worked on my dad. I have a you know the
old two man passing drill, you know, just stake seeing
each other going down the court.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, I still do that every practice. My dad did that,
But we do, we do. We always deal with a joke.
He always did it with a jump stop, like his
thing was do with jump stop.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
So I would say ours is twofold number one. I
was a you know, I was an sixteenth of a player.
You were. I was smart and I had a quick
first step, but everything else was slow. And so the
way that I could score is I'd get by you

(30:24):
and then I just outthink you around the rim, get
you up in the air and get fouled. And that
was back in the days they called fouls if you touched,
if you got out of defensive position, and so I
just throw my body around and yeah, and so that
that's just kind of I've always been like, why would

(30:44):
you try to take a shot that has a fifty
percent chance of going in versus playing off to get
the guy in the air and go make two free throws,
you know, And so that was just always that's always
been my mentality of And then I think the other

(31:05):
thing Lenny Acuff who's now at Lipscomb, I really stole
it from him. He has something called finishing school, and
I don't know if he got it from Villanov. I
don't know where I got it, but he you know,
we do it a ton, which is just stride stopping.
And the other thing that we do is, you know,

(31:27):
stride stopping to pass, but also stride stopping to finish. Yeah,
And and then so I think that's been you know,
that's been really I think the big things and then
the last thing that we really show our guys is
when they we call them hope layups. When they shoot

(31:48):
it and hope it goes in it invariably, it invariably
turns into a layup or an open three on the
other end, And so I think that combination, but yeah,
it probably is Villanova, I guess is probably where it
got widespread.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Jase practices were art.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
They were I just I don't know how he got
them to that level of buy in, Like what the
you know what magic pixie dust he rubbed on him,
But like you'd go to their practice and they were
so incredibly focused, and you know they there's no waste
of words, no waste of time. Yeah, the first national

(32:31):
championship here, I went to this practice. They played seat
in hall next day and I went to the practice
and I said, Jay, do you tell them.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
To not throw a chess pass? Because everything was a
bounce past the entire practice. He's like, it's.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
Funny when when when they went to the final four
with the four guards, he said, it was the first
year they started really emphasizing bounce pasts, and the idea
was like, hey, look we're smaller than there by, let's
throw bounce passes, you know. And what happened was the
guys liked it so much and even these groups likes
it so much that they were they made it like
almost like it was a game. Can we get away

(33:05):
with throwing every pass that bounce pass in practice?

Speaker 1 (33:08):
You know?

Speaker 2 (33:09):
And then and then you watch them in games, and
like all the passes and games are bounced passes, and
you're like, it's so simple, that it's so simple and
yet effective, and oh yeah, by the way, it's a
it's like a it's just a simple fundamental of the game.
And then the other part is this, I've always got

(33:29):
this from Sean Miller watching this practice where he emphasizes catching.
You know, coaches emphasize passing, okay, but they don't actually
say catching, Like catching the ball is actually a big
fundamental to the game that we don't talk about, we
don't work on it. And I always thought Nova's guys
and Sean Mo's guys always actually catching the ball. I
do wonder if you fast forward twenty years from now, like,

(33:53):
are there going to be basketball dorks like us who
love all this shit even though they came up now?
Because when you come up now and again you tell
them if I'm wrong. You live it as a college coach.
They don't watch a lot of basketball. They watch clips,
watch YouTube, they watch clips and even I mean like, look,
they'll watch spenergy even you know, they watch clips, but

(34:15):
not games. They don't go to the same summer camps
we have, and they also don't communicate the same because
of the phones right where everything is a text. So
you know, you'll see older mature teams defensively talking and
communicator with young kid teams.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
They don't say shit no.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
But I wonder what.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
I wonder what the world is like twenty years from
now when that generation is then coaching, what it looks like.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
My guess is now, I think this is where the
global impact will. I think have a have a play
because like the Europeans, they don't do that. They are
playing team. They are teaching fundamental at a young age,
and so I think there's gonna I think the US

(35:06):
is going to have to figure something out where we
start teaching fundamentals again, because if we don't, I think
the European and the international side of things is going
to continue to you know, take a bigger and bigger
slice of the best players and the best teams.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
I agree. I think it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
You know, one of my dear friends is Miles Simon
and obviously play in the ninety seven Nation Champions team.
He's MP, so he's an assistant coach with the Sons,
but he was an assistant coach.

Speaker 1 (35:38):
I wanted the under under sixteen, under eighteen on one of.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
The USA teams and I said, brother, catching up and
he they won their tournament and I want to buy
a good margin.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
He's like, you know, we win all these levels. Like yeah,
but again.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
You're doing the AAU thing, like you're there were physically
so dominant and superior, and we have twelve very good
players whereas they have two or three, right, and then
they have just some kind of guys that are kind
of filling out and figuring out whatever, Like you're mistaken.
I think physical development for actual skill development. And of course,

(36:24):
inevitably who gets blamed. AU coaches get blamed. Now you
were an AU coach in Houston. Yeah, and I don't
think I can be wrong. I don't think it's AAU
per se. I mean, honestly, it feels like it's the
parents to me, that the two things that ruin everything, right,
are parents and the money.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
But here's what I would say, though, is when you
were going to basketball camps, they were coaches. They were
high school coaches who were and like a lot of
AAU coaches and and I'm guys, they're just guys. They're
just guys, and and the parents don't understand, Okay, is

(37:12):
this guy really know what he's doing? What is he teaching?
You know? And there weren't just guys when we were
growing up. And and I do think that, you know,
I think the US thing is not fair because if
you did US versus Europe, maybe it's more fair because

(37:32):
the US is larger than the entire.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Continent after do million people, and we're way we're heavily
invested in youth sports, heavily heavies.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Yeah, where where I think if you're playing the US
versus Lithuania, like, okay, that'd be like the US playing
against Rhode Island.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
You know, that's like a six A versus a two A,
you know whatever, your high school right, like yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
So, I you know, I I I don't know if
things don't change. I mean, Doug, I grew up watching
Jefferson Pilot raycom and I guarantee you. The vast over
half of the basketball that I learned was sitting there
watching ACC basketball. And they would continue to say, now

(38:20):
you young players who are watching at home, look at
how he does this right here, and and you just
you learned it. But I mean I loved it. And
so that was Saturday and Sunday afternoons.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
And mine was mine was mine was Monday afternoon I
get home from school. I grew up in southern California,
Big East basketball will beyond at four o'clock. Yeah, and uh,
and I love Sherman Douglas and watching it, like people
would say, like, wow, you two great alioops. Like, dude,
I grew up watching Sherman Douglas. You know who was

(38:57):
better at throwing aliops? To Derek Coleman and Ronnie Stych.
Believe in Sherman Douglas.

Speaker 3 (39:02):
Then I haven't heard Ronnie name in a long time.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Shoot, And I mean, uh, Stevie Thompson like that. That
team had all kinds of dunkers. Stevie Thompson as well. Yeah,
so I had athletes. And then I mean I go,
I go deep in my point guard knowledge. Jay Verson
is to me still everybody talks about like he was
the big ten Chris Corciani.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Yeah, he was the little white guy who dominated.

Speaker 3 (39:26):
The league byron Ice Monroe.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
How how good a nickname was that?

Speaker 3 (39:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (39:32):
And then and I I think I told this to Ryan.
I don't know if I told I think I told him.
He did my pod.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
I remember. So I had a thing for Virginia. Yeah,
and here here was the thing.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
So I grew up and the old Bosey Old was
an alumni hall?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Was that called the old? And it was so tiny
and so kind of quaint whatever.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Or maybe it was a university hall. I don't know,
I can't remember.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
It is interesting, right, like I don't like, uh, we
think of the places. And she stayed playing in Reynolds,
North Carolina, played in Carmichael, and they played in whatever's
alumni hall or whatever. I'm not sure I can, I can,
I'm pretty sure. So so they had a series and

(40:17):
like look it's you know, they had a series of
white point guards, right they had I mean John Crotty
obviously was the king.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
So Jeff Jones offered me. He was like the first
big school to offer me a scholarship. And I was
a really good student and my my I was a
really good student from like the old school, like my
daddy's is just like get it done, you know, get
it done. No seas, get it done.

Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
So I remember I.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Got like a letter in the mail from Jeff Jones
and it was like a personal, handwritten note and they
called me it's like my juvenior spring junior year. I know,
it was before my junior year. So like everything else
was like IMiD majors or whatever. And I just became
infatuated with everything in Virginia like I didn't.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
It was like something I had seen but kind of
know a little bit about whatever.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
And then Florida was the next one, and so those
two schools, so I started to like the architecture. And
there's the crazy part. I had never been to the
University of Virginia until four years right before COVID. Oh
really yeah yeah, And then when I got there, I
was like, this is way cooler than I ever thought.
Of course, now the arena has been replaced whatever, but

(41:29):
always I always thought it was a special place. It
is just it is, yeah, and it's like it's.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Like Notre Dame.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
And when I went to Notre Dame, I remember every
once in a while going like, am I going to
school in a museum?

Speaker 1 (41:40):
It feels like a museum? Here a part of history.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
How did you get to become an AU coach? You've
got done playing? You go to law school? Like, did
somebody say, hey, come coach my team? Did you seek
it out? Did you start yourself? How'd that happened?

Speaker 1 (41:53):
So?

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Yeah, I moved down to Houston. So I My story
is I was supposed to go be a ga with
Dave Odom because of my relationship at Wake. And so
this is the This is ninety six, the spring of

(42:15):
ninety six, and they're they're rocking and rolling Duncan. It's
the Duncan years. And I'm spoiled and I'm playing at
Hampton Sydney and we're great at Division III, and I
now get to go to all the Wake games and
they're great. And anyway, he finds out during Sweet sixteen

(42:37):
weekend that I had applied to Virginia Law School and
it gotten in and he said, well, you can't come,
you can't come anymore. I said, what do you mean
it can't come? He said, you can't come. You got
to go differentiate yourself, like and you know he knew
he knew the value of a Virginia law degree, and

(42:57):
so he's like, grift is a you need to go
do that. So I went and did that, and then
I went back to Hampton, Sydney and coached for a
year with Tony Shaver. But after that year, I had
a bunch of loans and a bunch of fear. Uh
that would be a D three assistant for the rest
of my life. And so I went and uh worked

(43:19):
for the largest firm in Houston, firm called Vincent Elkins.
And but I but I loved hoops.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Uh and was it like the firm like did you guys,
do you guys have some deal out in the uh
out in the Cayman Islands where you were where you were.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Not to my knowledge, but uh, but uh it it
was uh. Well, you may remember remember the show l
A Law of course, Yeah, remember some of the crazy
scenes about the firm, like the party where somebody falls
through the ceiling. Yes, that was our firm. Okay, yeah, yeah,

(43:59):
but uh you know it's a big corporate firm and
it wonderful, wonderful uh place. I loved it. I was
there for twelve years. But but at the same time,
I missed basketball and so faith is a big thing
for me. And so I got involved with the Christian

(44:21):
ministry and in the inner city of Houston, and I
was going to coach with Houston Select, which was the
Adidas team. But there were all of I was involved
with this ministry, and there were all these kids who
that they you know, they were good, but they weren't

(44:43):
you know, Adidas travel team. And I was like, but
nobody's going to coach them. I'll coach them. And so
we had a B level team and but we'd play
in the Kingwood Classic and we traveled to New Orleans
and Arkansas and places like like that, you know, more regional.
But like DeAndre Jordan played for me. He started, uh

(45:09):
uh play played with us for three years before he
moved you know, he moved on. We had actually Oklahoma State.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
You remember you put he put himself in the old
au transfer portal.

Speaker 3 (45:22):
Yeah, well no, no, we we uh you want to
know the true story about uh DeAndre? So DeAndre DeAndre
was huge, but he wasn't a good basketball player.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
No, No, I remember so that part. Remember I don't
know the other Well, no.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
I'm saying as in not a good basketball player. As
in in eighth grade. He went to Colin Middle School
and he was a backup and he was six to
one as an eighth grader on our AAU team. He
was a backup. And then he went to Lamar High
School in Houston, which was a good public school, and

(46:00):
he was on the ninth grade team and it was
a backup. And he's now six three and he plays
with us again. And DeAndre had his mother is amazing woman.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
DeAndre was a smart kid, or is a smart kid,
and and he was a he was a great kid
and fun to be around, kind of goofy, you know,
and DeAndre I kind of went to him. I said, hey, DeAndre, like,
and I'm thinking he's six three six ' four as
a freshman. I'm like, man, if he could get to

(46:33):
six seven, maybe we get him to a D three
school somewhere and you know, like he'll be okay, Like
he could do that. And I said, and he was
a good student. And I said, you know, would you
ever be interested in going to a private school? And
he was like absolutely, And I said, all right, well

(46:54):
let's talk to your mom. But it's like July at
this point, and so Episcopal High School which is one
of the prominent high schools in Houston. My my in
law's business partner was the chairman of the board there,
and we said, hey, can we help this kid get

(47:16):
in and you know whatever. And at this point, the
kid's a backup at on the ninth grade. Nobody's thinking
he's going to be who he is, and so we
get him in. He's now and I go to him
right before school starts, I said, DeAndre, and he had

(47:37):
a September birthday, so he's super young, babyface, and now
he's probably you know, six four six ' five September,
and I said, DeAndre, you should really repeat ninth grade,
like you're the training that you've had, it's not going
to be up to snuff to your peer group like

(47:59):
you really ought to. And so he was totally against it,
totally against it. And my wife, who was a youth
minister at the time, would go over and tutor him
at lunchtime, and by the end of September, DeAndre decided,
you know what, I should probably just do ninth grade again.

(48:20):
Well by December he's a freshman and he's now six
seven and now it's like wait a second. But he
was with his right class, he was a September birthday
and I don't know why they started him the way
they did, but and to his credit, I mean, he

(48:43):
obviously got better and better. And what I really heard
was Blake Griffin was the difference maker for him. When
he and Blake played together with the Clippers, Blake would
just grab him and take him to the gym and
force him to work, you know. And you know, but
anyway that that doesn't really answer your your question about it.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
No, it's it's it's honestly, it's it's awesome because you know,
it's it's the I could be wrong, and I'm not
trying to put words in your mouth, but I think
it's interesting. You know a lot of the narrative on
college basketball. A college basketball coach and you say you're
a college basketball coach, it's almost like saying you have
some nefarious uh position?

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Right, yes, like what does he do for living? College
basketball coach?

Speaker 2 (49:31):
You know, It's like, but I'm guessing, like why did
you get in coach to get into it to make millions?

Speaker 1 (49:38):
You get it? Two reasons, right, love ball and you
love kids and helping kids.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Right, it's a completely and then you know it also
fulfills that kind of competitive need, you know, the need
for competition, right and and and it is self fulfilling
in that in that way, like it's a daily competitive environment.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
Well yes, but have you ever read the book Inside
Out Coaching by Joe Airman? No, you ought to. You
ought to read it. It's for for me. So my
switch to college was really about faith. I felt like
God was calling me to invest more of my time

(50:21):
and I really thought it was more aau uh you know,
we actually lived in Third Ward of Houston, so we
lived so we could be closer to the players, and
we love you.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
Let you wait, wait what hold on?

Speaker 3 (50:36):
You live?

Speaker 1 (50:37):
So get paid the picture of what how old are
you at the time?

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Thirty five.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
And you're married kids, no kids at the second.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
We had just adopted. We have three African American kids
who are adopted kids.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Right, so you decide, I'm going to go.

Speaker 2 (50:56):
I'm a lawyer in Houston and the successful one and
what was the third Ward?

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Like, well, so it's the inner city. I mean it's yeah,
it's you know where Texas Southern is, It's it's right there.
And but the Christian ministry we worked with had gym
and so we lived, you know, a couple of blocks
from Yates High School, which is a well known prominent

(51:28):
high school, and that's where most of my players came from.
They came from Yates and Wheatley were the two main schools,
and and they would come, they would come home after
school and you know, come over to the house and
hang out and eat dinner, and then I'm home at

(51:50):
six point thirty and pick them up, take them to practice,
drop them off, and then get back to work. And
and it was awesome. You know. The part I've left
out is six years into my practice, my wife and
I moved to London. So we worked in my London

(52:13):
in the firm's London office for four years. And so
when we moved back to when we moved back to
Houston with the firm, we really had to make a
decision about where we wanted to live. And my wife's
family's from Houston, lives in your wealthy area river Oaks,

(52:35):
and and we kind of said we want to we
want to do a different life. Not to make a statement, again,
I think we really felt like we were called to
that and and it was obviously it was life changing.
It was you know, it was phenomenal, and we really
thought we were going to live there forever. And our

(52:58):
kids were African American and we wanted them to be
in a more diverse environment where where we were the
outsiders and not them. And and then this called to
go coach basketball. I really, like I said, I thought
it was going to be, hey, coach more AAU, or

(53:18):
maybe go be an assistant at Yates or you know
something like that. It was really my wife. My wife
was like, well, don't you love college hoops? I was
like yeah, and I'm forty forty two at the time
or maybe forty one, and she goes, why don't you
go coach college? I was like, yeah, it doesn't really

(53:39):
kind of yeah, nobody's looking for somebody who, you know,
fifteen years ago was a D three assistant. And literally,
again I think providentially, Ryan got the UNBC job that March,
and his brother Lane was like, you know Ryan Griff, like,

(54:01):
he'll he'll help you run the program, like just you
can do basketball and he'll be your chief of staff.
And so that's kind of how it happened. And then
I had zero expectator. I thought I'd be with Ryan forever.
I mean, I love Ryan and I talk every day now,
and he and I are so different. We were such

(54:25):
a you know, a good pair. But you know, the
Longwood thing, you know, popped up so again providentially in
my view.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
When you took over at Longwood, what was it like?

Speaker 3 (54:41):
It was? It was different. It was you know, I
think the prior, the prior coach had he was he's
also a man of faith, Jason g and Jason really
had a heart for helping guys. And so there were

(55:01):
a lot of guys who had who had stubbed their
toe in life, and and so it you know, they
they came here and and some of them did great.
Some of them stubbed their toes again. And so in
a community like Farmville, that's just a smaller community. You know,
if you're in Houston at University of Houston and somebody

(55:24):
does something, you know, there's the Texans, there's the Rockets,
there's the Astros. You know, it kind of can get
swept under, you know, or people just don't focus small community.
When you're the flagship sport, you know, everybody knows. And
so it was really more of a culture rebuild. And

(55:46):
it was also a program that had had never won
I think the highest they'd ever finished before was eighth
place out of nine teams in the conference. The facilities
were really off, and I think there was just a
it needed an infusion of belief. It needed an infusion

(56:08):
of Hey, we're going to do things excellently and that
mediocrity is not okay. One of our program quotes is
from Aristotle. You know you are what you repeatedly do.
Excellence is not an event, it's a habit. And so
that's just something that we've been trying to push and

(56:29):
the program and and I'll be I'll be honest. The
administration always wanted this to be a basketball school, and
I think in some ways they weren't really sure how.
And I'm not saying I had the answers, but we
just you know, kept kept punching until you know, things worked,
and they certainly didn't always work.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
So, uh, you get this year, you open a brand
new arena, which is you know, that's a decade in
the making. Yep, Rinas don't just like, hey, let's do it,
let's let's go, and you have to put together a team. Okay,
so give me this time last year, what what did

(57:15):
when you look up on your whiteboard in your office,
and who do we have, what do we need to get?
How does a what? How did how did it all
kind of come together?

Speaker 3 (57:25):
So so last year we lost two five men who
had played for three years and they both literally played
between eighteen and twenty two minutes a game, and so
we had to completely replace the five position. And then
we had one one four man back, we had one

(57:50):
point guard and kind of a combo guard. And we
lost two all conference players and you know, just again
we lost a uh, like I said, seven guys graduated.
And and so going back two years when we won

(58:16):
the tournament, we had everybody come or we had everybody
come back, but we lost to our two point guards.
And so then last year we lost everybody except for
you know, three four guys, and so we knew we
had to deal with the five position, and so we

(58:37):
had to do that. We knew we needed to get
some wings scoring, and we needed to get more more
help in the point guard position. And it's been really
hard to find point guards, to be honest, it's been
really hard. And I hear that over and over again
from other coaches. And so you know, first, you know,

(59:01):
at the five spot, you know Zepuala played for Ryan
at Utah State.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
So okay, so so and I mentioned on the broadcast,
So I mean again, and this is the real way
the world works is it's about connections. So did you
did he say? Like, and I remember this time last year,
Ryan was leaving right to go to BCU. Yes, so
did did he tee it up?

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Was it?

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Did he just pop up in the portal? And then
it became a conversation like how did it work?

Speaker 3 (59:33):
So of course I, you know, I knew who Shei
Man was, but you know, and I'd been out to
Utah State, so we had probably fist bumped at some point.
And Ryan sent me what I think they sent everybody,
which was a link of his film, and honestly, I
didn't even look at it. And then one day I'm

(59:56):
sitting there and I go back and I look at it.
I'm like, well, man, this I think this guy actually
is a lot more ethic because I was worried is
a seven foot step and we don't play. That's not
how we play. And like, if you're sprinting out for
ball screens and stuff like, you can't be bad. Yeah,
we can't win it. And so then I looked at

(01:00:18):
I was like, actually, this kid's pretty. He can move.
And so then we talked and we called Sheeman and
he literally had thirty schools recruiting it. And but he
and I really had a we really connected and you know,
he and I had a long conversation one day and

(01:00:40):
he calls me the next day and he goes, Coach,
I've I've cut the list down to three schools and
it's Duquane, Bowling Green and Oral Roberts and so I
just want to thank you for your time and it's
been great. And I said, she Mon, it's awesome. You know,
I wish you all the best. Has been fun to
know you. So that was a Saturday Sunday afternoon. He

(01:01:03):
calls me back. He goes, Coach, I haven't felt good
since we hung up the phone, and I think I'm
supposed to take a look at you guys. And I said,
well great, and so he came here and yes, the
familiarity with Ryan. He's from a rural area in Poland.
And as we're driving in, he goes, this feels like home.

(01:01:27):
Like this feels like my home back in Poland. And
he's a guy who, like Ducane, is a much higher
level obviously, but he doesn't like the city and so
he's like, I'm not going to Pittsburgh. And and I think,

(01:01:47):
you know, in some ways it was down to us
in Oral Roberts. I don't I haven't really.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
I can tell you firsthand the drive from Alsa Airport
to Oral Roberts as farmland in between, right. Actually it's
actually kind of famously sort of a bad drive whatever.
I like, Tulsa is an awesome town to live in,
but just not that path, you know, see what think like, hey,
if that airport would have been out in the sticks

(01:02:14):
and he drove through the sticks to get to All Roberts, oh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
Yeah, game, may it be somewhere else? And so you know,
I think Simon, you know, that's kind of how we
how we got him. And Elijah Tucker was a Xavier
transfer red shirted his freshman year, didn't really play it
all last year, but we were kind of like, okay,
he's big and athletic. And then we had signed a

(01:02:41):
Juco five in the fall who was undersized, but how
we play really fast, really athletic, can defend, and so
we were like, okay, we've got three three fives that
we'll figure that out, and then we needed scoring wings.
You know, we needed scoring from the guard position and

(01:03:01):
our our you know, I honestly, if I could start
two point guards, I would, you know, because in how
we play, you know, just keep moving the ball and
it makes it easier for the five man. They're not
trying to hunt the best guy coming off of a
ball screen. And you saw that. We got a bunch
of guys who will come off ball screens, some better
than others. But anyway, kid named John John Massey, Uh,

(01:03:26):
if you look at our roster, you'll see we've got
three kids from Houston. The Justin Hill kid I mentioned
who's now at Georgia, he was from Houston. Shabooty Phillips
was an All Conference player who I actually coached in AAU.
He was from Houston. So we just we recruit Texas

(01:03:46):
a lot. And so John John Massey, you know, he came.
He had average ten points at McNeice, you know, kind
of a six five six six, you know, kind of
one two or three. And you know, we felt like
he was going to be a dynamic score for us,
and I think he's average close to double figures for

(01:04:08):
us here. You know, he had thirty one against Ashville
in you know it during the conference, and so he
has has a lot of potential. And then we signed
two really good high school kids in the fall. One
turned out to be the North Carolina Private school state

(01:04:31):
player of the year. His team won the championship and
he ended up being on the All Freshman team, Emmanuel
Richards and and then another kid, Jalen Bernard, I think
is kind of like griffaldrich was his freshman year at
Hampton Sydney. You know, he's he's trying to fit, he's
running into people a little bit, but he's really grown

(01:04:54):
throughout the year. But Jalen was a I think a
top thirty Texas high school recruit, which you know is
that's really good, uh for for our level. So we
did that. The point guard spot is probably where you know,
we didn't We didn't find that that other compliment to

(01:05:15):
the Naper kid, and I think I we we actually
going back a year, we signed a kid, Nick a
Lame from ut Arlington who was he and Whalen were
supposed to be the two point guards. And Nick came
in first week of class and said, Hey, I've been

(01:05:38):
in the States for seven years. My dad just got
me a pro contract in France where I'm from. I'm
going home, and and that I think that's really hurt
Whalen because he hasn't had Okay, no problem, dude, you
don't want to do it the right way, Go sit down,

(01:05:59):
we'll let we'll at neck plot, you know. And so
there's he's been so much more talented than his backup
that he hasn't felt he hasn't been had that that,
you know, push Yeah, So you know that's you know,
that's kind of how we that's kind of how we

(01:06:19):
we did it. And then Da Houston, who you saw
play some point. You know, Da is an unbelievable you know,
he was with us, but just kind of a more
of a combo guard than than kind of it certainly
than a true point.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
How different are you now than in November.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
As a coach or as a teaming vastly different, vastly Uh.
We have always been talented, you know. We we should
have beaten Saint Bonaventure on opening night. I don't know
if it's a two or three point game something like that,
maybe four with free throws or something. We played Dayton close,

(01:07:03):
you know, until about the four minute Mark in the
second half. And we've been a talented team. I really
believe you've got You've had maturity from the new guys
like Emmanuel Richards is not a freshman anymore. You know,
you always hear about that. Shiman Zappolla is playing with

(01:07:26):
incredibly more confidence than he was. He's able to in
the non conference. In early conference, if something bad happened,
he didn't have the confidence to, hey, it's okay, I'm
going to get the next play. It might it might
spiral it. And now he's now he's much more confident.

(01:07:47):
Elijah Tucker had twenty two against High Point. Well he
was missing layups you know, in November and December, and
so you just have a much more in my opinion,
experienced and mature team. And then I really think our leadership,
which has been our most important piece, has matured. They

(01:08:11):
have always wanted to lead. I don't think they I
didn't help them figure out how to. They know how,
and they've been willing, and probably about three to four
weeks ago they were like, screw this, like y'all follow
you do what I say. And you know they're not

(01:08:32):
dog cussing anybody or anything like that. They're actually super
positive guys. But like now, there's no doubt, there's no
question that Waal and Knapper. If he tells you to
do something, you better do it. And if Da Houston
pulls you together like pay attention and they have really

(01:08:53):
I think.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Blossomed is it. Was there anything you did to help that?

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
You know what I think I did. I did. I
didn't torpedo it. I didn't torpedo it again. I think,
you know, Doug, this has been the hardest year of
coaching in my career, you know. And I think during
you know, that real dip at the beginning of conference,

(01:09:20):
you know, I had to go to, frankly, my faith
and family and and I think that helped me stay
the course with them, helped me stay my My typical
approach is like work harder, Like like what are you doing?
Work harder? Execute? And I think for the first time,

(01:09:43):
you know, I mentioned the Joe Aherman book and all
of that. It's all he's talking about, is we as individuals.
You know, you assume you come to coach like you're
not a jacked up human. So the reality is you
bring all of your childhood issues, all of your issues

(01:10:05):
in your own life and then oftentimes you project them
on the team. And you know, the whole point of
Joe Airman's book is coaches are so important, but if
you are a dysfunctional human, you're going to be dysfunctional
towards your team. And this is the first year I

(01:10:28):
really think I tried to really I was like, I
can't get through to them, And where I probably would
have just elevated my volume and demanded more, I was like,
I think I really tried to see them, like what
do they need from me? And I hate to say
that that's coaching one oh one, but that's not how

(01:10:51):
I've lived my life. When things didn't go well, you
work harder, you grind more, and you stay in the office.
Later you figure it out. And obviously that didn't work
for a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
And.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
I think that helped. I think that helped the vibe
that they had with me, because I think they really
felt that I was trying to help them and they
were frustrated and they knew I was frustrated. But I
think it helped them stay the course. And you know,

(01:11:29):
I think last year, I think the team, the team
got angry because I was demanding, demanding, demanding, and even
though we won twenty games and finished second, as a coach,
I just want to reach our potential, Like if that's
eight games or twenty eight games, I want us to
reach our potential. And I knew last year we didn't

(01:11:52):
reach our potential, and so I just pushed them harder
and harder and harder, and they they were sick of me,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
So so here's the big question.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Okay, when you go to the tournament two out of
three years, a place like Longwood that used to be
a bye game, everybody would just count as a win
in the win column, right, Like where the hell is
Longwood's that's a win on anybody's schedule. So when you
change that to three straight twenty one seasons and you're
connected with with with Ryan and you're in the NCAA tournament, inevitably,

(01:12:28):
when you make the nca term somehow you're a genius coach,
whereas you might have won the league and you're no,
you're not this genius. Right, That's the way this bizarre
profession works.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
It's it's absolute, and I should say it's absolutely. You
would never run your business this way. You would never
run your household finance this way. You would say, give
me the guy who's got a track record, you know, right.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Well, right, yes, yes, I would say, but like like
look like like, look, you coach in AU, and I'm
just and maybe part of this is me projecting kind
of my own feelings, Like I understand that there's other
things about running a basketball program that have nothing to

(01:13:11):
do with actually coaching the games. But people ask all
the times about like, well, you've never coached before, Like, dude,
do you have any idea what it's like to coach
in AU, especially when you have multiple levels, right when
you have the twelves, thirteens, fourteens, and sixteens or something
like that, and you go game to game to game
and you can't coach every team the same because the
players aren't the same. And then oh yeah, by the way,

(01:13:31):
you don't actually know who's always going to show up.
You just don't know. So it really prepares you for
game management. You know, you got to communicate really well
because you the timeouts are shorter, and the kid's attention
span is bad and they're not you don't have practice
fund practice.

Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
To drill things whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
So it's so I understand like the alternative coaches I
think is a Again, I just think it's a case
by case scenario. Yeah, but my but the what I
was and look to to back up, you wouldn't run
a business this way is I tweeted this out I
think yesterday, which or the day before, which is like,

(01:14:14):
we do this insane thing every year on TV and
radio we argue about these bubble teams. Right Meanwhile, like
the bottom end of the of the tournament, it's like
you could be a crummy team team wins your league
by three or four games and then they drop one
game in the tournament and they don't go to the ends.

Speaker 1 (01:14:31):
Like that makes sense, makes no sense.

Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
High Point High Points had an incredible year. Yeah, incredible year.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
Yeah, I agree, But the high high level stuff feels
very transactional now, yes, you know, feels very transaction Now.
You were able to kind of put together this team
and bring it together on the fly. And I don't
know if that's more awarding or less rewarding than when
you build a team over time. But here's the question,

(01:15:03):
is something greater part of the calling or is being
Longwood's guy for twenty years to calling what's the calling?

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
Well, I would probably quibble, and I know you didn't
don't mean it this way. It probably depends on what
you define greater, you know, and how how do you know?

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
How do we I mean like you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:15:27):
Like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
Like like wait, like like like Forbes leaves wake Forest
and they call or you know whatever, yeah and or
or you know, Tony decides I'm done with this stuff,
like I can't do it the way I want to
do it at Virginia.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
You know, Greater obviously is a is a loaded.

Speaker 3 (01:15:44):
They need an I am coach, But you know, I look,
I think for us, one of the beauties of this
is I'm I don't I'm not climbing a ladder. And
if if we stay at Longwood for twenty years and

(01:16:05):
that's what God has for us, I'm fired up. Like
we have a I have a president and an ad
and I'm not. This isn't coaching carriage cell job speak.
This is legitimately, you know when.

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
They all do sound the same. Hey, I get the
greatest cut I was. I was recruited by Jerry Green.
I don't remember Jerry. Hey, Jerry's old Carolina guy. Okay,
so Jerry was the head coach at Orgon. I'll never
forget this side. But I'm sitting out. I went to
Not Dame. I left and got in trouble a bit,
so I had to I couldn't transfer right away. I
sat out for a year. So because you know, everything changes,

(01:16:41):
it just made sense. Got my a degree at a
junior college in California, and so I actually visited Oklahoma
State and it was a terrible visit. Whether I got
in laid it was one game, what wasn't a good game.
And I went and Oregon played Arizona the next night,
Matt Court amazing. I'm an unbelieve they beat Arizona, who

(01:17:02):
won the national championship that year.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
They carried Jerry Green off the court. Okay, And two
things turned me off. Three things. One I was at
a party and it was like Cheeching Chong's van everywhere
I went, and I was just I'm not.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Like an anti weed guy, but in like college, I
was just like this is nuts, Like I will lose
my mind here, I will party my my balls off.
But I tell this story all the time where the
old Mac court they redid it several times, but this
is before the last redo, before they built a new place.
You sat in bleachers when you're on the team on

(01:17:38):
the very bottom part of the bleachers. And as a recruit,
my legs were to the back of the players. They're like, no,
come sit down next to us. And the problem with
was Jerry Green was he was like a Dean Smith,
Roy Williams disciple. So he was just running guys in
and out like no rhyme or reason. Seven dudes in
and out and none of them had anything nice to
say about him when they court, so.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
They're carrying them off the court.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
Meanwhile it's like, has no idea what he's doing right.
Second thing was this though I never forget. He was
at my house and uh, you know he's from the
South and Tennessee came open. He was you know, there's
rumors of him and tis I coach you and there's
rumors of you in Tennessee. Is like Dougie, I got
the greatest contract. I worked for an incredible president. Bill

(01:18:21):
Knight's a personal friend of mine. You know, I have
a rollover deal with a ten million dollar annuity. I
am never leaving the university work and then literally next
way he's putting out of Tennessee. But the volunteers.

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
He was amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:18:43):
No, I mean, and look, I don't I'm not sitting
here saying ever what I think I'm where. I think
I'm maybe different than at Jerry Green. I never expected this.
I never expected to be a head coach. And then
what's happened at Longwood with the new arena, our facilities,

(01:19:06):
like and I'm also Doug, I'm I'm I'm smart enough
to know that this int me. I mean, it's it's
a lot of stuff. And again, my faith is a
big part of it. Like I think I've been blessed
and been blessed to get the right recruits and probably
miss on the wrong recruits. And so I just and

(01:19:28):
I've got three kids who are in seven, six and
third grade. And again I'm not saying we won't ever leave.
And I'm not saying I don't think I'll be putting
on a Tennessee hat next week, but but I we're not.
You know, I know a lot of coaches, And when
I was in law and when I was in private equity,
I was this way, Okay, what's next, What's you know,

(01:19:51):
what's what's the next firm? How do I climb? Like
I'm not And and here's the other thing. I'm I'm
so jack duh. I don't know if I can handle
a higher love.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
Yeah, no, that that's a reason. That's a very reasonable thing.
Or if you want to, right, because you don't have to,
you don't want to. You're happy you got a really
good gig, all right, last thing, and now you got
to go. You've been really gracious with your time. We're
a couple of years out now from it. Can you
believe the Virginia thing happened?

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Like? Oh like again?

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
And here's here, I'll give you my perspective about it
real quick. When I told you about my infatuation for Virginia. Obviously,
the fact that you know Ryan's the head coach when
it happens at the UNBC is incredible, right, the just incredible.
My first game I called at CBS in the NCAA

(01:20:47):
tournament and you know, like I was doing the same
thing we were talking about. I was climbing, you know,
I was an ESPN climbing climb comment. I took the
CBS job because I always wanted to do the tournament.
I always want to do the fon four my first job.
In first game, we're in Salt Lake City and Southern
playing Golenzaga, and Gonzag is a one seed, it was

(01:21:08):
a sixteen seed, and the first game was which to
stake Pittsburgh And I had known Greg Marshall since his
days at Winthrop, and he and his wife used to
hang out. We used to hang out the Final four
and he used to ask me to introduce him to
every I made as by director, right, so he was.
Greg was awesome with me, and he was just like, hey,

(01:21:30):
just so you know, like we're actually really good. We've
been hurt all year, We're just now getting healthy. He's like,
just don't be surprised. We kicked their asss I was like,
all right, and they were down early and there was
a it was the when the first year the elbowing
rule became a flagrant and it was a terrible call
and and to screwed up Pittsburgh and sure enough, which
top boat raced him. So that was like my first

(01:21:52):
and it was a modest upset. So Southern comes out,
and you know, their band just sounds different than everybody
else's band. It spends on so much better than everybody
else's band, Like I don't no, literally, they tune the
instruments better. It's crazy and and I remember watching them
practice the day before talking to their coaches, and their
coaches were like, man, our assistant coaches are. They have

(01:22:12):
to run study hall, they drive the players around like
it's we have no facilities, nothing, Like we're not even
be able to make danceay term next year because our
APR is so bad, like them like they have no
And then Gonzaga walks in and it's it's like royalty
walks in. You know, their uniforms are brand new, their
sneakers are better Mark few.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
It's like a symphony.

Speaker 2 (01:22:33):
Four minutes and fourteen seconds to go in the game
and it's tied and Southern has the ball, and Spirodidas
and I are like grabbing each other like, don't fuck
this up. We're gonna call the first ever sixteen CD
to be to one, like we're all on on upset alert.
Everybody's all the TVs are turning to our game and
we're and Gonzaga like pulled it out, and I just

(01:22:57):
remember thinking like.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
I don't know if it's ever gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
And you thought of it happened, it would happen in
one of those crazy, super low scoring Princeton Georgetown. We
grew up watching where somebody throws in a crazy shot
at the end of the game and everybody goes nuts. Well,
when it actually happened, it was an ass whooping, like
it just spiraled completely out of control. So now a

(01:23:22):
couple of years later, tell me, tell me what memories
you have.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
I remember, I remember being shocked. I remember in the
first half it was there's like maybe the eight minute
under eight media timeout, and as I told one of
the assistants, Nate Dixon, I said, we can play with

(01:23:51):
these guys, like we can play with them. What a
lot of people didn't remember about that team is that
that team almost beat SMU, which was a top twenty
five team at the beginning of the season, without that
little point guard kJ Mora. Yeah, And we played Arizona

(01:24:14):
two days later, a day and a half later, and
had it to four with twelve minutes left in the
second half. We were up seven at Maryland at halftime.
So the team was older and it had confidence, So
I don't think they were terrified of the moment, you know,

(01:24:36):
and the dynamic of that, the personality of that of
the leaders of that team were like, yeah, let's go
hoop and and I remember I was shocked that we
were getting such wide open shots. That's what I mean.

(01:24:58):
We were making shots, and we're making some hard shots,
but we were also twisting ball screens and rejecting and
you know, slicing and dicing and making the extra pass.
I mean, it was it was a thing of beauty.
And and then and then everybody's making shots and they're

(01:25:20):
not making shots, and you could just see it. And
I think them missing DeAndre Hunter. A lot of people
forget that that was huge.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
That was huge, course, no, it it and and and
and but but you know, there wasn't a guy in
your team.

Speaker 2 (01:25:36):
They would have offered a scussion too, right, Okay, And
that's but it's a it's a terrible drug that you
fed us all because you made everybody believe that that's possible,
which I guess it always is possible.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
But well, I actually I actually think it's more possible
today than it was when it happened at UNBC because
of the transfer portal. Because they're kids like Shiman and
Elijah who you know, they played against those guys and

(01:26:11):
now maybe you know, if they have a good night,
everybody else has a bad night. And then The other
thing is it's not a long pressure on sixteen, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
No, and then and once you get to and like
and the other part about that game I didn't tell
the story was and I said this in the broadcast,
was and suddenly there's twelve thousand, two thousand Southern fans.

Speaker 1 (01:26:32):
Yes, like it's eighteen thousands. He places like five thousand
Good Zega fans. And suddenly twelve everybody's cheering for you. Yes,
you know, it's nuts.

Speaker 3 (01:26:42):
Well, that was wild. And the other thing I'll say too,
Ryan and Tony Bennett. I think we're very friendly. Ryan
really looks up to Tony just how he coaches his faith.
I think Ryan really aspires to a lot of what
coach Bennett does. So, but it was wild to be

(01:27:09):
especially in the second half. And I remember again at
the eight minute mark, we're up sixteen, and I said,
I don't think they can score fast enough. You know
how slow they play. Yeah, I don't think I don't
think they can. I don't think they can catch up.
And you know, and it was incredible. Probably half of

(01:27:34):
the arena, maybe even more was Virginia fans dead quiet dead,
you know, because like you said, this wasn't like, hey,
it's a nip and tuck game. And then we won
like to Purdue, you know FDU game. This was everybody's gone,
what are we watching? Like, what is happening right now?

(01:27:58):
And quick funny story and I let you go. We
have a text string with that that team and you
know it probably texts, you know, a couple of times
a year, and they h that night that uh Fairley

(01:28:22):
Dickinson was about to be was getting close to Purdue.
The text started coming and you know, after the horn
sounds and they win. Uh, this is the funniest thing.
I think. One of the old assistants goes, well, it
looks like we have looks like we have company boys.

(01:28:43):
And Joe Sherburn, who you know was was one of
our key players because yeah, dot dot dot. But imagine
beating a one seed by only whatever they beat him.

Speaker 1 (01:28:55):
By you we woke their ass. We were no doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
Yeah, so imagine imagine did you get the walk on him?

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
I'm sure we did. I'm sure it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:10):
Wasn't that amazing, Like that's the story. The story is
not that you won the game. The story is that
the walk Ons got in like yeah, they would have
thought they were getting in that game, but in a
completely different context.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
Well, that's what happened two years ago when we were
playing Tennessee. We were with them at ten minutes and
I still remember, I don't know who the interview lady was.
And we're down twenty five at half and they can't
mess and they're beating the brakes off of us, and

(01:29:42):
she goes, well, you know what adjustments? You know? Do
you think you're gonna make it halftime? And I looked
at her and I said, I don't know, do you
have any suggestions?

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Amazing?

Speaker 3 (01:30:02):
So anyway, good times, good times.

Speaker 1 (01:30:05):
Well listen, I like your club.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Uh awesome, you turned this thing around, and let's see
who you get on Sunday. Yeah, and talk again, talk
again soon. But I do appreciate you joining me.

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
Yeah, man, thanks for coming out to uh, to the
to the tournament.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
That place high point. Holy cow.

Speaker 3 (01:30:24):
They gotta go on. They got it, they.

Speaker 1 (01:30:26):
Got it, they got to going. That's what That's what
investment in resources looks like. That's what looks like. Yes, wow,
how about that? Huh?

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
I mean you think you sacrificed something for your job,
for your life and then you listen to Griff could
be fascinating to see what happens if jobs in Houston,
which there's a potential for a really good job I
think in Houston to come open. If that brings him

(01:31:00):
quote unquote home, be fascinating to see. But if that's
not a story of a guy who has his prioriti
as an order, I don't I don't know what is.
I did want to point this out, the strangeness to
the exercise we go through with all the arguing over

(01:31:21):
who's in and who's out. We're trying to figure out
Indiana State versus Saint John's, right, and Saint John's They're okay,
they got twelve losses. They'll unless they win the Big
East Tournament, they'll have thirteen losses to end their season.
And you're trying to weigh their season their success against

(01:31:43):
Indiana State, for example, who's like twenty five and six
six losses in a conference that everyone would consider inferior.

Speaker 1 (01:31:51):
On the other hand, Saint John's.

Speaker 2 (01:31:52):
Didn't beat any of the good teams, right, they just didn't.
They didn't beat Marquette full strength, didn't beat you cut
of full strength. So don't tell me how great they are,
you know, And they didn't beat anybody in the NY
Conference that matters. So if the argument is, well, they
play in a better league, like they beat in those
teams in the better league, they lost to average teams,

(01:32:14):
they lost the good teams, and Indiana State lost the
good teams as well. But we're going back and forth,
which one of these teams should get in the tournament?
And yet and like again, this is to Gryffaldrich's team.
They finished in fifth place in their league. Granted it's
not a balanced league schedule, but high Point was the

(01:32:35):
best team. High Point, based upon being the best team
of the season, truly belongs in the tournament. Isn't it
interesting though, that we argue whether or not these teams
that are not I mean the State it's the best
team in their league or the second best team in
the league. But anyone is allowed in if you win
your conference tournament, regardless if you're good or not. And
yet we only grant entry at the bottom end of
the tournament or in the middle of the tournament. I

(01:32:57):
guess with the at large teams two very very verge
teams at best. It's just I don't know, that's how
my brain's work. We talk about the best we let
anybody in, and then we argue over the teams that
have had successful seasons on their level or disappointing seasons

(01:33:18):
on their.

Speaker 1 (01:33:18):
Level, but are they good enough to gain entry.

Speaker 2 (01:33:21):
It's a very, very weird thing that doesn't occur, I
don't think in any other tournament, in any other gathering,
any other place. The idea that last place is Montana State,
not really competitive in the big big sky. Great win
for them to beat Montana, but they're in the tournament.
And yet we're arguing whether or not Indiana State, who
had a great year, or Saint John's who had a

(01:33:42):
good turnaround year belonging to the tournament.

Speaker 1 (01:33:45):
Does anybody else see the weirdness to that?

Speaker 2 (01:33:48):
Reminded The Doug Gottlieb Show airs daily three to five Eastern.

Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
Of course, we have an hour podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
You just type of Doug Gottlieb and you if you
download this podcast, you download that one.

Speaker 1 (01:33:57):
In the meantime, I like this stories. Make the story.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
We'll see if that's saying lasts until the next time.
I'm dog gottlie This is all ball

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All Ball - Longwood HC Griff Aldrich on Back-to-Back Tourney Berths, UMBC’s UVA 16/1 Shocker, Longwood Rebuild

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}All Ball - Longwood HC Griff Aldrich on Back-to-Back Tourney Berths, UMBC’s UVA 16/1 Shocker, Longwood Rebuild