September 17, 2025 • 51 mins
Doug is joined by Daniel Poneman, George Hemmingsen and Brandon Globe of Weave Basketball, a player representation and consulting group focused on NIL, showcases and connecting athletes to opportunities.
Subscribe NOW to get the latest All Ball Podcasts! #douggottliebshow
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is
all ball.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
You're about to listen to part two of me and
my guy George. Uh. Of course, Brandon Goebel and the
great Dan Ponham and the Weave guys are going to
join me and we'll talk more about where we are
this this year, this state of recruiting in college basketball,
and we'll get to where we start the part two
(00:35):
of the discussion. In a second last time I started
to inform you about some of our guys. There's another
portion to doing kind of the tears system, which again
is what we're trying to do. Starters were starters make
one things. Rotation guys make something else, bench guys make
(00:57):
some else, Freshmen make something else. Right, that's the that's
the tea your system. But the idea of it is
spreading whatever money you have. If you have fifty thousand,
one hundred thousand, five hundred thousand, million, million, five two million,
doesn't matter, it's still to me you It's hard to
(01:19):
just go after one guy because you become beholden to
that one player and if their attitude isn't perfect, if
they're not that much better than everybody else, you're going
to have inherent jealousy. The other part to it is
if you don't build a deep program, you don't allow
yourself for a bad evol I mean, if you bring
(01:43):
in ten new players, it stands the reason two will
be way better than your thought, and two will be
far worse than your thought. Right, that's just and if
the others, if the other four it was a ten
o'ka four, the R six are exactly what you thought,
which they're not. They'll be varying levels. You're gonna have
a pretty good team. You have a pretty good team.
(02:07):
And so my guess is that it's more along the
lines of two or three are exactly what you want,
two or three are better than you thought, and two
or three are not as good as you thought. And
then there are some somebody will get hurt, somebody mentally
is not all in. But the point to it, and again,
I don't know how it'll work for us, because a
(02:28):
lot of this is you're betting on what somebody else
has and they don't even really know at this point.
But I do think it's fascinating the different ways of
spreading around some of the same money at some of
your same level. Some guys go for one or two
players and then everybody else is filler. Some people try
and pay everybody the same. Some people try a tier system.
(02:49):
There's a bunch of different ways to do it, all right,
let's get back to our discussion with the weave guys.
I think I know when so much of this mass
move bent slows, what has to happen. Take a listen
to part two of my interview here with George Dan Poneman,
(03:11):
Brandy Goebel and the Old Ballpotcast. I'll tell you when
it's gonna change when they shit a guy and then
he leaves anyway. When enough of that happens, you're like,
what's the point of me in recruiting a freshman. I'm
gonna sit him for a year. He's gonna leave anyway.
It's not worth it, Right, That's when it's gonna change.
(03:32):
When you get when you get enough sort of bitterness
over the idea that the freshmen are gonna leave, that's
when I think it happens.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, I mean it's already happening. People just aren't ready
to change their ways. Like coaches are creatures of habit.
They're not taking big risks I mean when we advise
young players who anybody who's not a five star, we
advise him and go a level below your highest offer,
because if you look at high major rosters, the last
three guys in the bench are always freshmen developing and
two of them transfer out. Is how do you develop
(04:02):
if you're not on the floor. So we're already advising
guys based on that reality. It's just going to take
some time for the industry to catch up to that
party is the reality and DP and I think that's
one thing we all do well is teaching them about
the long ark of their career. You know, when we're saying, hey,
you can go to X y Z school, let's look
at the long or you know, five years down the
road what to get there.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And I think that's been one of the special values
that we do at WEAVE is putting that and implementing
that into the players that we do bring in. You know, yes,
you can go get the bag or you can come
down and you know, five years from now you're still
at that maybe making more, yeah, and have a professional career.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
We always tell guys and we bring them in, we
say we look for fit over profit, right, we want
to put in the right fit because long term you
can to get more profit if you start in the
right place. And I know people are going to hear
this and be up in arms like, oh, so you're
bringing guys in with the intention of transferring them.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Shouldn't the intention?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
At least to no one s day is four years
at the same place, no matter what. Either you outperform
at a high major you go to the NBA, or
you underperform you transferred down at a mid major. Either
you overperform and move up, or you underperform you move down.
The four year player is rarely exists anymore. But also
I don't see a problem as long as you're not
transferring three four times. You transfer once. You do two
(05:15):
years at one place, in tiers at another, and we're
making sure our guys are taking the right forces where
they're going to graduate on time. What's wrong with getting
two years at two different places and getting two different
life experiences and two different great teachers as your coaches,
two different sets of teammates.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
But in reality, whether you like it or not, that
is the reality. So we have to react to it.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
We put guys in position where they can produce and
develop and move up rather than sitting on the bench
and watch and end up having to inevitably move down.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Melissa, I have one who I want to make it
my fourth year here. I want them to make it
be for fourth year here. But I get it it's
perdue obviously, is kind of the model for getting guys
I need to stay and then if they have that
extra year. So here's the question, where are we on
the fifth year? Right the d two guys, you have
a fifth year. Nobody knows if JUCO countcy year doesn't
(06:02):
count a year, what that is. But you go back
a year ago and we were told, hey, fifth year
of eligibility is coming. I haven't heard anything on it.
I mean, obviously it's at some point.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
We have a bunch of cases. There's a lot of
cases that are in appeal right now. So the NCAA
goes out and appeals every one of these things that
they lost earlier in the summer. There were some losses
on the player side, and there was even some commentary
from the NCUBA president that you know, oh, we're just
going to keep fighting these look we're winning all that
sort of thing. But the reality is is for every
(06:39):
ten wins, for the nc double A. If there's one loss,
that loss can really set some precedent. And so those
losses now they're in appeals. I think there's this month,
I think there's two or three of them that the
appeal hearings are. I believe PAVIA is included in that
is maybe later at the end of the month here,
(07:00):
but based on those appeals, if those appeals don't win,
now that really starts the wheels turning for hey, we
need to put something in place that will prevent a
whole other series of these from happening. The sad part
is is that the NCAA spent hundreds of millions of
dollars fighting these things and nothing's any closer to any
sort of regularity at this point. So, you know, my
(07:23):
hope is that that, honestly, that these appeals aren't successful
so that it puts the pressure on to make some
rule changes. And you know, I think again, like I think, Doug,
you and I have talked about in the past, that
the eventual reality that provides stability is going to be
that CBA and a lot of this looking a lot
more like European professional sports, and how that looks to
(07:46):
everything else. You know, Title nine and all that is.
There's a million other things going on, but it's really.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
The only thing. But don't have a CBA, right, no.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
No, right, right, But I.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Understand, So there's just sore like for people who are
listening or watching, just so we're clear. Okay, So I
think all of us believe that right now college basketball
is trending more towards the European model, right right, when
you have new team most every year, some guys are
going to stay on that same team for their lifetime,
(08:19):
but many of them are going to be changed out.
Speaker 6 (08:22):
Eventually, we'll have some sort of loan system. Right.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
We're not going to have teams that are you know,
sent down, although that would be interesting right where you're
where you're sent down a league whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Great ratings. One day hopefully we'll have that.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
That would be Believe our game late last year against
Detroit would have everybody would have been watching, right.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
But uh.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
But the problem though is that, Okay, that model doesn't
have a CBA, right, doesn't have all the American labor
laws as well, also doesn't have like one of the
things as people push for, oh they should be employees,
Like I don't see a path for them to be
employees because of I mean, the state school's kind of screwed,
(09:13):
right because you have so many different regulations over state employees.
Right to hire an assistant coach, I got to go
through hoops, you know, unless I do an emergency hire,
and I only have so many emergency hires. Otherwise I
got to form a fucking committee. You know, I got
to go through this process. I gotta go through that process, Like, dude,
you don't have the time to do that when you're
recruiting a basketball player. And then oh yeah, by the way,
(09:36):
then you're gonna you know, there's other parts to it,
but the big thing is at college athletics is a
tax free shelter.
Speaker 6 (09:42):
Right, it's tax exempt.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So if you're gonna then pay you know, all of
these things you're going to do. If they takes away
that tax exempt status because they become employees, now you're
paying tax on stuff, the whole model changes.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
We we have the advantage of the United States versus Europe. Right,
Like in Europe you have all these different countries and rules,
and it's it's impossible to have a CBA in an
environment like that. Over here. It's right now, it's a
little bit of a chicken in the egg thing right
with when the CBA happens or what happens first? Do
we get an employee exempt status? Does that happen before
(10:20):
or after a CBA? You know, what is it that
that ends up protecting what you're talking about right, which
is is there are a lot of other status issues
involved here, for for colleges, or does it come and
take an entirely different look where it's it's really its
own market and it's its own business at that point,
(10:42):
and that's what does that look like? You know, whatever
it's going to look like, we can't describe right now
because it hasn't really been presented on a table yet,
but whatever it's going to look like is very different
than what it is today because all it is today
is a bunch of lawsuits that are just going to
continue on and on and on and on. And know,
we've established it's a market. Markets have rules, and the
(11:02):
very first thing that everybody did when they determined it
was a market was try and restrict that market and
an anti trust situation here in America where we have
protections like that, now everybody goes, wait a minute, we
got we have all these things we want to, you know,
light our torches and grab our pitchforks for on both sides.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And the challenges you talked about with them becoming employees,
those are real, but they're not going to stop it
from happening because the reality is they already are employees,
they're just not classified as such.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
Oh, I think.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Eventually the realities that legality is going to match.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
What why why do you why would you want them
to be concidered employee because.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Then we can have a fair, fair negotiation with the
parties that be right now, the kids are getting railroad,
they're getting screwed. Like the reality is that the House Settlement,
in Trump's Executive Order. You know what, what they just
tried to implement, which I don't think we'll stick, is
these artificial salary restrictions under the guys of oh, they're
doing it for the good of the game and the
(12:01):
good of the player, when in reality, they're doing it
for the good of the administrators. Like I put out
a tweet thread a few weeks ago talks about the
similarities between the House Settlement the Executive Order in Jim
crow right, I use Alabama as an example, and NATO's
is a friend. I love Nato. It's great man, great coach.
I'm not picking on him, but like Nick Saban was
a big champion of these restrictions. Okay, Nick Saban, and
he was at Alabama was making ten million a year,
(12:23):
His staff was making another five or five to seven,
and then you add the basketball staff. Collectively, the football
and basketball staffs were making more than twenty point five
million for fifteen guys, twenty guys, and they're implementing an
artificial salary cap of twenty two point five million for
all of the football, all the athletes combined. They never
had a salary restrictions on coaches. There's no salary restrictions
(12:45):
on eighties president's administrators. They're trying to keep these salaries low,
keep them not classified as employees because ultimately it's better
for business. Greg Sanke wants these caps to be at
twenty point five because the last one he spent players.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
The more money you have within the within the.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
System for the right I'm gonna get the I'm gonna I'm.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
Gonna respectfully disagree with you. Okay. Now, look, first year
is where I will agree.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Is that where there is and obviously not at my level, right,
is at the high level, there are guys that have
been pigs that they make too much money. Now, part
of the reason they do that is they have the
one bad year and they have such a gigantic buyout
that you can't just fucking run them out of town. Okay,
there's a balance there, right, you need to you work
(13:36):
twenty years, and you work towards building a championship program,
and you're a quality coach, you're quality evaluator. You're also
you know, like I'm a CEO. I run a fucking business, right,
I have to balance everything I have.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
I have to have my hands on academics.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I have to have my hands on raising money, you know,
on building a schedule.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
I have all these other.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Things, hiring and firing and adjusting how much which we
spent on analytics, how much we spent on recruiting, how
much we spend on our own travel.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
All these things come under under my purview.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So and I'm responsible for sixteen players and for six
assistant coaches and any manager, so that should be valued more.
I should make more money than than even without my
any you know, coaching experience, than any of the players.
And I would and everybody knows that. Like, we all
(14:28):
realize that it's just not that we're just not able
to most people aren't able to say it. Now, there's
a limit, right did did did Saban need ten million
dollars a year?
Speaker 6 (14:37):
No?
Speaker 5 (14:38):
No?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Like, dude, you can live very handsomely in Tuscaloosa, Alabama
on four or five million dollars a year and then
there should be annuities, you know, where you get paid
out at the end of certain parts of the deal.
But okay, there's a limit, dp. There just is now
maybe again, even college football, the biggest college football programs
(15:00):
they make like one hundred and fifty a year, right,
make one hundred and fifty million dollars a year in
their stadium and other other revenue. Right, plus they make
the TV revenue. That's the very top. But like at
our level, bro, we're not making that much money. We
just aren't. So the only way to make that money
is for one meter win a league and then get
(15:22):
bought out and then when they use that money or
two to play all these guarantee games, which means we're
gonna get ass kicked like six seven times a year,
and then make that money and then pay it to
the players, and the cycle continues.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
But there's just not that much.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I promise you, there's just there's a limit there. You
have to have fourteen sports, so you gotta pay for
those sports. You gotta have administrations, you got to have
coaches at your level.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You're right, right, at your level is different than the
the SEC, the Big ten, the Big twelve.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Right, we'll see them a conversation.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So let's compare it to European basketball, other pro sports
like Yeah, at the G League and low level European clubs,
there are coaches who make more of them this our players. Okay,
that's fine, But if you get to the NBA, the NFL, MLB,
usually a coach is making you know.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
What the player payroll is.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Now, we have situations in college basketball where coaches aren't
making more than the entire player payroll.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
And you'd, I would say you were right.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
When you say there's a limit to it if the
market hadn't told us otherwise. It's not like the players
are asking for us bigger slice to the TV revenue
or X, Y and Z. They just want the boosters
who want to pay them to be able to pay them.
They're having a heart actually cap to stop people who
want to spend money on winning teams from spending money
like there isn't a limit to because we saw in
this last portal that there is. These people are willing
(16:43):
to spend hand over fists to build good teams.
Speaker 7 (16:46):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Here's what you're going to run into. Okay with that, Okay,
you do run into the those guys. And here's where
it makes coaching really hard. Right, you're coaching at home
and you look across the court and all those guys
that sit course side, they're responsible for all those guys
in the bench. And it takes some brass balls to
(17:21):
sit a guy who's making money, and you know there's
one guy response for that.
Speaker 6 (17:25):
Again, I give you an example. I had a kid
last year.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
He struggled some emotionally and in trying to fit in,
and ultimately he left our program. Right, but super talented.
We weren't paying them a lot. We're paying them a little.
We play a game, and every time we get done
playing a game, I go to one or two of
the bars right next to our arena. There's one called
D two, there's one called the bar go in And
(17:48):
every game they pulled me aside.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
Like, hey man, how come you don't play so and so?
And I was like, have you been to practice?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Now, try to practice one day, right, And finally I
played him in a game and the kid melted down, right.
And then I go to the bar afterwards because I
kind of like have to and they're like, hey man,
now I know you don't play, Like yeah, but it's
so hard to not play guys.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
Who they're paying for, right.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
It's it's you're also and I know the word power, Dan,
because you are there. You're so well read and you
understand the historic elements of it. But you do have
to have a certain power as a coach to play
who you want to play for a myriad of reasons, right,
(18:35):
And when a booster comes in and funnels money to
one or two players, and if that kid is not
acting in that listening, not engaging with teammates, is not
being a good teammates, not being coachable, not running we'll
do whatever they want in key situations, it's really really hard,
and the booster ends up having more power than the coach,
(18:57):
and it doesn't work that way, right, That's what up
and that Let's just say one big school in the
state of Texas where was really well funded, where the
boosters just first they were like, you're you're not playing
the guys we want you to.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
We paid to play.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And then eventually when they didn't like those guys that
were playing or how I.
Speaker 6 (19:15):
Was going, then they cut off the money. They's not
paying the money. There is a certain.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Element to it to where I hear what you're saying
and power becomes like a negative word, like when it
becomes Darkonian.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
But there is a certain power that coaches still have to.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Have in order to make it all work with nineteen
to twenty two year old guys.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, well, I mean it's it's similar to politicians who
are getting paid by lobbyists and then you still have
to do it's right for the public.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
Perfect analogy.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
You might money from this.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Lobbyist, but ultimately that's why you guys get paid get
paid to do.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It's a new part of the job.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
It goes back to what I was saying before about
the power of saying though, the power of knowing what
recruit not to take what person to stand up to
when not to succumb to doing the wrong thing. The
right thing to do is always going to be the
right thing to do. And if you have boosters that
are trying to meddle, they think they know better than
you that that's part of the job to uh, you
know withstand that and like what you're saying are legitimate
concerns from a coaching perspective, but they're not reasons that
(20:11):
this thing won't proliferate.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
It will.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
There's always going to be a new billionaire who just
sold his company who wants to fund his alma mater.
And one point I wanted to touch on that I
would try from the last question was you talked about,
you know, how much money these programs make at the
high end of college football and basketball, and you're right,
a lot of programs aren't profitable as standalone businesses. And
that's a point that people often make, is that you know,
(20:34):
the salaries are outsized because the programs aren't profitable. But
I think the biggest point people are missing the difference
between college sports and pro sports is that in pro
sports they are standalone businesses. In college sports, they are
marketing arms for universities that are multi billion dollar corporations. Right,
So Florida Atlantic makes a final four their applications skyrocket
(20:55):
George winning program is the most effective market going to
be a four year university. So even if the program
itself is losing a little money or breaking even the
university getting millions in.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Value from so much.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And that's why again, even if the programs are losing money,
people are willing to continue to throw money into that
pool to for the program to win games. It's like, again,
this is America. The market should dictate if money is
being spent. And they just put in all these ridiculous
restrictions to stop people from spending money they want to spend.
And it's not going to hold. It's not going to stick.
(21:28):
The damn is going to break. And yes, people will
have to deal with boosters trying to meddle in their program.
And that's your job as a coach to protect your program,
protect your players and not let them meddle. And yes,
there's going to be there's always going to be growing pains.
But this, this ship is moving. It's inevitable. Whether it's
a year, three years, or ten years. This this is
heading towards the heading in the direction of professional sports
(21:50):
and employees and collective bargaining.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
We're going to get there. It's just about how much
we're gonna have to fight to get.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
I don't think there's any doubt that collective bartney is coming.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
They don't apparently have to be employees have collective bargaining.
That's that's what we were told, is that there's a
there's a way to do it, and I think the
question is what's the final number? And then look, there's
other parts to it, right, there's here, here's a question.
Speaker 6 (22:19):
Is there any way.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
To stop the five games into the season, kids playing
well agent pops up in their DM, you know, essentially
polluting the well in terms of where the kid's head
is at. Is there any way to prevent that?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
No, because that happens at all levels of sports. Again,
it's just like you mentioned with the rogue boosters, like
these are not ideal circumstances. There's always going to be
poison well, there's always going to be issues, but that's
not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Like, Yeah,
there's always going to be issues, but what you just
described exist in all levels of pro sports. Every time
(23:02):
I brought a guy to Europe and they work their
way up from the Netherlands to Belgium, to France to Spain.
As soon as they get to a higher level, there's
somebody in their DM, some agent being like, oh your
agent sub oh your agent scuffract I got you to early.
There's always going to be opportunists to steer people in
the wrong direction. And again that's why recruiting for character,
building a culture, having good relationships with your players is
(23:23):
so important. To be able to have real conversations with
your guys about that type of element.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
M George, what's been the most interesting going from the
coaching side to the representation side. What's the most interesting
thing that you didn't know before this season?
Speaker 4 (23:40):
It's a great question. I think the biggest thing.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Just the whole uneducated both sides are on the on
the process and then I ole side. I think that
is even myself learning being on the other side before that.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Give me an example of something that people are uneducated on.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
So first it's you know the financial aspect, all right,
what comes with it? You know, what's the breakdown of
when when ex player sides with Green Bay? Okay, what
all that implies? With everything all right, what NIO is
what is cost of attendance?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Right?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Because they hear nil. But there's other factors that get
to that NIO. Money, you know, cost of attendance, you know,
things like that. So I think that education part of it,
but also the education of, to be honest, the lack
of awareness on a coach or staff where they're.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Like, hey, what player do you have?
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Then they'll they'll okay, send me video right, send me
this where basically we're doing the recruiting forum and breaking
down their film forum, which is fine, but it shows
that some staffs out there aren't doing that extra work
right now where that's why they're there and then doing
their homework on that player. Yes, we are the middleman.
(24:54):
We're here to force that player or encourage them to
go to you know, Green Bay. Now it's up to
the staff to get that job done. And I've seen
a lack of the will and want to on the
coaching side then really you know, with everything on that.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I think that's been the biggest eye opener for.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Me on that that It's it's been very hard because
I was like, did you watch the film? Even though
we'll send the film, did you watch it, did you
dissect it right? And then this? You know, same area,
but it's just on the athlete side. It's just the
education part of it. What comes with then now? And
I know, how does this all work? You know, where's
my fit? Where's my value? Where so many players and
(25:34):
athletes are so uneducated on that side and they just
see dollar sides and we're trying trying to figure out
to teach them about the whole process.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
And if I may see Georgie's praises for a little bit,
when you coached in college for what twenty years? Well,
so do you almost say total his first year as
an agent. I really think George is one of the
five best agents in this business already. And you know,
watching someone from coaching division to and Division three level,
you know, like you said, if you guys have been
(26:03):
at high major their whole career, there used to recruiting
in a certain way, but this is a totally different landscape.
But George, having been a utility man assistant all these
different levels of college basketball, he knows the ins and
outs of how to recruit juco, how to recruit overseas,
how to valuate film, how to find fit. I mean,
he already had that skill set, so now applying that
to the agent side, George's, you know, one of the
(26:25):
most dynamic people I've worked with because he's he's done
it all.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
He's grinded at.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Every level of college basketball. But to his point, like
a lot of people just want us to do their
jobs for them. They want us to tell them who
to take, rather than evaluating who's right for their program.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Brandon, What's uh, what surprised you the most about this,
this soul transformation in the sport?
Speaker 5 (26:48):
You know, it's it's probably you deal with the same
thing and we dealt with it in the past before
in il in a different way. But you know where
some of this advice comes from, you know, for players,
and that's been a really difficult thing now when you
inject money into this, because you know, there's a lot
(27:09):
of competing interests, there's a lot of bad advice, there's
a lot of feeling of control that you know, some
some people advisors, whether it's AU coaches, high school coaches,
family members, you know, whatever. You know, I guess I
don't know why I was surprised, but I've been a
little surprised at just how effective some of that really
(27:33):
really bad advice has been in gathering and grabbing the
attention and the buy in of players. And unfortunately, you
just see explosions all over the place where things just
go so horribly wrong because you know, this became this
is a market, this became a business real fast, right,
(27:54):
and and so there's a lot of moving parts.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
There's a lot of.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
Different rules that are changing every day, and there's contracts.
I mean, this is real big boy money. This is
the second highest paid league in the world. Now your
league's not even close to what college pays now. And
all of a sudden, all of these people that in
the past they were always like, oh, you should go
to this school instead of that school because you know whatever. Well,
now when you inject money into that, that advice becomes
(28:18):
more dangerous when it's misplaced and not educated, you know,
like Georgia is saying, the lack of education. So it's
been really interesting to see, you know, certain players and
stuff just kind of really lock in and take that advice.
And it makes your head explode because it's like, hey,
if you were going to the NBA tomorrow, would you
trust Uncle so and so to handle this school? Why
(28:42):
are you letting uncle so and so deal with this decision. Yeah,
it's not a fifty million dollar contract, but it's a
very important decision that could really change the path of
not only your basketball career but your life. You know,
and I know as a recruiter you deal with that
when you get the phone call that you're just like,
oh my gosh, I can't believe this is the person
that I'm having to try and convince my question and
(29:03):
certain things like you're oh.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Boy, Dan real quick.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
To Brandon's point, like that would be another positive of
collective bargaining or players being able to unionize. In the NBA,
the NBA doesn't certify us as agents. The Players Association does.
Their job is to screen agents, make sure we can
pass a really complex test background checks.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
We take classes every year.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
There's a screening process for NBA agents that's done by
the Players Union. The NCAA has tried to propose programs
for certifying agents. But why should the players trust the
NCAAA telling them who.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
To sign with?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Right, But so now there's no baer of entry for agents.
So guys are getting really bad advice from either twenty
two year old kids who are still in college or
their uncle.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Who watches college basketball. Things, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
But I always tell kids in recruiting meetings which other
agents you can feel free to use it. I say,
it's like picking a surgeon, right, we are basketball surgeons.
I've conducted thousands and thousands of heart basketball heart surgeries
over the last twenty years. I'm as skilled a surgeon
as it come. And you're gonna take some guy who
just watched er and he wants to conduct your career surgery.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Good luck with that.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
We have twenty years of reps, Brandon and George of
twenty years of reps, and they're taking dudes who made
a website called themselves in an il agent and they're
going to totally bomb their career. But it also makes
this makes this business interesting. I'm sure it's interesting for you, Doug,
getting from all these Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Then damn what you going to Doug? What are some
things like you asked us, like the things you've learned
as this process that they're out this year dealing with,
you know, on the recruiting side of.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
The agent side, Like what you know the same kind
of question back.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
I think there's a lot uh yeah, with me for
a second, bear with me for a second.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
So the first thing is it is an artificial mark, right,
Like the whole this is what he's worth is an
artificial market. Now, the more you wait, it's a risky thing, right,
you can wait and a guy George, you and I
dealt with the price went up, right a lot of
(31:12):
these guys though, the ask is so big to start
that the price eventually will go down and you just
have to be patient. So I think some of my
opinion is one year in, but I'd actually like to
see how it plays out. We we didn't necessarily aim
for it, but we only have two players that have
(31:34):
representation on our roster, ok, So it's I think we
feel like that's unique. We felt like we could we
could get a little bit more bang for our buck
that way. And frankly, we just didn't have the money
to spend to get to some of these guys that
have representation. But there is especially overseas players you need
(31:55):
you need reps for. So I would rather have a
kid not than a kid wrapped by somebody who's an idiot.
And we do have idiots, right, And you know, I
saw I think the representation side, like, look you got
to tack on fifteen percent to twenty percent because you
(32:17):
know that's it's the real take home money that you
got to kind of figure out what you're what you're
going to spend. I would say that, and we're trying
to kind of figure it out as well. You you
have to have whether it's a theme or you know,
just a couple of bullet points for coach, what what do.
Speaker 6 (32:37):
You want our identity to be?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Because if you just go out and say, Okay, I
got money to spend, I'm gonna try and go get
the best players within that money.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
But you talked about fit DP, it's totally true. Right.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
So for example, for my program, the things I identified
in the Horizon League that we had to do better, Okay,
we said we're a nightclub.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
Twenty one and over. Okay, uh, And then I said,
I valued character and toughness above all else.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Character and toughness because I just didn't think that I
thought we had good character, but I thought the good character.
Those guys that were playing at the end of the
year had great character and they were still playing hard
at the end, even though for most people that wouldn't
be allowed to play hard.
Speaker 6 (33:19):
For that, I valued that and.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Toughness, because you can't accomplish anything in this sport, especially
when you're at a load of mid major if you
don't have and even the high major if you're not
tougher than hell, because it's hard, it's cold, everybody's trying
to win, the game's crazy physical, the officiating sucks. Right,
You got to be mentally and physically fucking tough or
you can't. It doesn't matter all the plays, all the
(33:42):
shit you see on oh watch this double gap drive
and this flare screen, no matter, if the kid's not tough,
it doesn't matter. So again, you'll see my team this
year and will look different. We got to figure out
what we got. We got to figure out how all
goes together. But all those kids have great character and
a really tough and I think that there are teams
that you see that have talent, but it doesn't work
(34:05):
because sometimes you just get a job and you don't
really have you don't have a system, you don't have
a style, you can't identify it, it's too early in
the process, or it's your first time having money, and
then you just kind of put pieces together and it's
it's really hard to get them a fit.
Speaker 6 (34:19):
So that's one thing.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And you see that a lot in football, like I
think Mile Mounter Oaklama State.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
You know why they spent money this year. Why aren't
they any good?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well, because they didn't they had new coaches, they didn't
know exactly how they wanted to play or while they
want to look they just want to increase their talent,
which they did, but they're not a better team.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
Because they have talent, but it doesn't fit together.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
You know, you gotta find ways to save money, and
you gotta find ways to spend money. And you got
to be creative in the contracts. You got to be
creative in the recruiting. You got to separate yourself because
like otherwise, I'm just another white guy with a logo
on my shirt. I tell you to come play for me, right,
(35:02):
what makes you different?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
You know?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
And obviously what makes me different is I have this
big platform. What makes me different is there's not a
gym I go into that people don't know my name.
That people are paying attention to our program way more
than anybody at this level and even the upper level,
mid major level, Like people actually pay attention agreement of
basketball because they're interested and or maybe they don't like me,
it doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
They're paying some attention to it. So you got to lean.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Into whatever differentiates you as a program, right, And then
I'll tell you the other thing I've learned is that
real recruiting still works. Real recruiting still works because the
end of the day, you're always going to be in
the ballpark of somebody that you're in terms of money.
Speaker 6 (35:43):
Right, Yeah, you're gonna lose a kid.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
You know, you're at you're at X and somebody comes
in at two X and there's nothing you can do.
But if they're at one point five X, you know,
or even point seven five X. But the kid feels
a distinct connection with the head coach especially, you're.
Speaker 6 (36:00):
Gonna get that kid. Right. So the idea that recruiting
is just how much money. Some of it is okay, but.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
You gotta have a you gotta have a little swag
to you. You gotta have something that differentiates you. You
gotta be able connect with people. You gotta understand, all, right,
what's the who's advising him, what does he want?
Speaker 6 (36:18):
And then you also have to be willing to say
no right that the power of no right.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
It's got to be like, yeah, I love them, but
it's not gonna work because he got an agent in
his ear. He's not gonna work because he doesn't really
want to be here. And I think that you have
to find guys again. For me, I gotta find guys
that are smart, tough, want to be together. They're only
desires to win and understanding that I want them to
get more money. The best way for them to get
(36:44):
more money is us to win basketball games. And the
best way to win basketball games is to do it
collectively and try and do it our way.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
If you do that, it will all work together and
you'll get paid. And they're not. That's not gonna resonate
with all of them.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
And you've got to be willing on certain guys to
not go like, hey, I could pay more and make
sure I get him Like yeah, but he didn't really
want to be here, so he's not here.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
He's not going to buy in.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
He doesn't buy in knowing does not work for him,
but it doesn't work for the rest of the team,
and it just kills our mojo.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Kills you touched on a great point that I think
there's this fallacy people. You know, I see Twitter trolls
come at me when I make public statements like, oh,
you're just a money grubbing agent. You're just selling kids
to the highest better I would say less than half
of our guys go to the highest money offer, like matters,
real relationships matter, and for us, we don't want our
(37:31):
guy to go.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
To the highest bidder if he's not going to succeed
or he's.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Not going to be happy, because yeah, we get a
little bit more money, but now he's calling us all
year and he's miserable. I'd much rather take less money
and have a kid being a really good, really happy
situation and thriving. Like, lives are better when our clients
and lives are better. Our clients lives are better when
they play for a coach to have a real relationship
with in a winning program and a winning culture. So
most kids don't take at least our kids don't take
(37:54):
just the highest dollar figure. But to your point, like
I think, actually it's funny you should have maybe given
away that seat.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Your your strategy cruiting.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Guys who don't have agentsy genius because ultimately, uh, you're
gon be able to get a lot more value if
guys don't know what their value is. And that's just
taking advantage of of of the market. But you know,
I think the way you just describe recruiting gives me
confidence that you guys are can have a great year
this year, because that's how I built my organization. Right
Like when I brought on George, I could have gone
(38:23):
to Harvard Law School and hired somebody you know, who
has this impressive resume whatever, But like I wanted grinders
who are tough, who are humble, who have compassion, who
are team players, and we're going.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
To overachieve with people who work together.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
And ultimately, like you just said, if you're taking a
bunch of guys who just went to the highest bidder,
you have a bunch.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
Of people are out with themselves.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
If you think want to come together for a greater hole,
you're gonna win. And I think I'll give a shout
out to Eric Oland when he was at UCSD. I
saw them play a few times last year. They won
with one of the lowest budgets in their league because
they found they found the right guys who wanted to
play together and work for something greater than themselves. They
almost be a tournament And that's how I've tried to
build my organization. And that's I think you said, the
(39:03):
power of no, the power of not taking that really
tantalizingly talented player.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Who's not going to be good for your culture. You're
going much better off without of than with them.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Well that's the that's the the big thing. And this
year we don't have any We have no division on transfers.
And and this is not to cast dispersions that any
of the ones we had last year, but part of
the hypotheses or maybe even theory is especially high major kids,
they're coming coming down to our level. Their ex personal
(39:32):
expectations is to dominate, right, but they wouldn't be coming
down to our level if they dominate in college basketball.
And it takes a very very special kid to be
humble enough to know, hey, it didn't work at that
high level and I can eventually make it work here.
There was there was one or two we went after
this year we just didn't get. But that they they
(39:53):
understand that, dude, Horizon Leak's good. It was the nineteenth
rank league last year. Like it is a good hardcore
We're well coached, fucking tough and ruggedly and if you
think you're gonna come in here and just rereck shop
because you went to a power for school and didn't
play like you have it.
Speaker 6 (40:09):
It is crazy. So we wanted kind of that same mentality.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
And by the way, like as much as it sounds
DP like, you know, like it's a philosophy of not
getting guys with agents, it just kind of happened that way,
you know. And then it became guys that we sort
of leaned into, and we felt like we could we
could recruit the crap out of it if we got
in on them early and and and we did things right,
and we were really prepared for it.
Speaker 6 (40:34):
So I don't know, it's gonna be fascinating.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Let me let me ask one one last question while
Brandon falls asleep on us.
Speaker 5 (40:43):
We're here working, buddy, We're here working.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Plays three kids in juco in the time.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Since it's not entirely untrue.
Speaker 7 (40:53):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
App Give me one guy, who do you think give
me a juco? Because you're mister Juco. Give me one
juco and you don't have to jerk me off and
tell me one of my guys. So give me one
guy if you're like this guy's going to have a
really good year at.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
A guy in JUCO right now, or a JUKEI guy
wants in Division one in Division one, oh man.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
I got a few. Yeah, well one guy I'm excited about.
So last year, we.
Speaker 5 (41:37):
Thank you for taking me out of getting in trouble.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Well, obviously guys are represented by Weaver are all awesome,
and they're all done overachieved. Of course, are the best
players in college basketball. But Jeff nwankwot at Oklahoma. He
was coming out of college Juco two years ago and
he got injured last year didn't play, so we kind
of maybe forgot about him.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
But I think he's a potentially future NBA player.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
People forgot about because he had a year out of
the game, But I think he's going a huge year
for Oklahoma. It reminds me a little bit of last year.
I had a client named John Tanja who had trans
from Colorado State, got injured, sat there at Missouri. People
forgot about him, and he ended up having an amazing
year for Wisconsin. I think Jeff could have that type
of year at Oklahoma. We also have Isaac by the way,
(42:20):
Tanji by the way.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
I don't know if you know this. He was in
the freshman B team in high school. Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Team.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Was also on the B team at Evanston Township. So
we have that.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
I think I think your basketball careers went in different directions.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
I was really good for the Chicago j c C.
Mccoby team.
Speaker 6 (42:40):
I was.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
But the other kid I'll mentioned is Isaac Finlandson. He
was a year college. He's going to be at Hawaii
this year.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
And Doug, I'm going to tell you one quick story
about Jeff so that it doesn't hurt your heart to
pay attention to a Sooner this year. But Jeff is
jeffs is. He's a great player, he's you know, he's everything.
But but he's an elite human being. And so we
have this jamboree in Oklahoma in October. You were there.
You were there, sitting up in the windows. And so
(43:14):
I see Jeff. He comes to the event and he
wanted to say hi and catch up on whatever. But
he's got this big box with him. I was like,
what is this. It's full of cell phones, it's full
of like new iPhones and I'm like, what are you doing?
And he's like, oh. A couple of the coaches here
talked about how they had some African players that had
you know, they've come here to play junior college, but
(43:36):
they don't have any cell phones. I went and bought
him cell phones, So I'm going to go give them
to the players. These aren't players he knew. These weren't
even coaches that he played for. Like, he just there's
some kids that are going to be at this event
and they're new here and they don't have phones. So like,
I'm going to go take care of that.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
We'll tell you that that's dissimilar experience with an African
player last year.
Speaker 5 (43:58):
But Jeff's an elite, elite, elite human being, and so
I'm super excited to watch him get after it this
year because I mean, he's he's deserved, he's he's been
through a lot with George.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Give me one guy, but it better not be a
guy I fucking missed because I didn't have enough money.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I think honestly, it's a D two guy Lao Beef
lo Beef, who, Yeah, you just went out a guy,
but I just I just that's the one that really
stands out to me. You know, started at fau went
Division two just Skyrock, and you got to.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Point out, like we had a kid leave us, uh
six practices in the summer, and I love the kid, right,
He's just he's young, he's tough, he's hungry, and he's
so badly want to play. I don't even I don't
know how much he'll play this year. I thought he'd played,
but whatever. He went D two and I'm like, dude,
that's awesome. I go there, great coach, good program, go
hoop and then if you want to come back up,
(44:58):
you come back up.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Yeah. No, I think one too.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
And I think there's one that we just that just
came over and Brendan and DP of Iron is Matisse
who's at New Haven. Do's the one to keep a
real eye on that got in late. That's gonna his
upside is going to be very very special, the one
to really keep an eye on that we did. We'd
already sent you, so you're.
Speaker 6 (45:24):
The film. Thank you.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
Yeah, I didn't have They just just know that means
that we value you to where we share all these
guys with you. We know you can't take them all.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
I think so so so so DP.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
You guys did Ireland England? Right? One are the other?
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Like is there's got to be a player in India.
We actually there's a kid where to guys, where to God?
There's a kid and Iran and we just there's no
way to get emligible.
Speaker 6 (45:51):
There's just none.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
And you know Jerry Smith who's my assistant coach, he
played eleven years overseas, uh until last year or whatever,
and he a former Louisville teammate of his played in Iran.
It's like the best young player in Iran. There's also
there's China. You guys sent us the kid and.
Speaker 6 (46:13):
I don't know what happened.
Speaker 5 (46:15):
We still going through it.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
We got ghosted on that one, right, No, there is
there a player in every country, Like are you guys.
Speaker 6 (46:25):
Gonna go to India? Yeah, I mean that's in in
South Saudi Arabia And that's.
Speaker 5 (46:29):
What we've always done. Like that's how Dan and I
got into this. Really on the international side of things
was as I was helping place players in junior college,
I got a random text, melage message or a DM
from Matt McCallister who said, Hey, I'm the Tanzanian national
team coach and I said, well, there isn't one. He said,
I know, we're building it. You know, he's coached in
(46:51):
high school in Minnesota, and he said, hey, uh, you know,
I'd like to get some of these kids to college.
Do you guys want to come to Tanzania, me and
Dan and run a camp? And we said, sure, guy
from the internet that we don't know, We'll fly to
Dara Salam, Tanzanian run this camp. And the first time
we ever met the guy was in Dara Salaam and
(47:12):
that's where, you know, we found a tiki. But that's
really you know, that's the juice behind this stuff, is
being able to really like it's called undiscovered for a reason. Right.
You know, we've gone to Trinidad Tobago and found a
player from Saint Lucia that's a country of one hundred
and forty thousand people, right that is now playing at
Western Kentucky. You know, we we go and find players
(47:36):
that have never played before. You and I've talked about
the Gideon George story. Gideon never played organized basketball before.
So I really do believe you can go just about
anywhere and if you dig hard enough, you're gonna find
you're gonna find something cool, you know, And that's that's
the really exciting part about this what we do.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
And speaking of Iran, we represent the best Iranian college
basketball player, Parsifala, who is.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
And he has younger brother is really good.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Who again, it's going to be challenging to get over
with you know, current immigration issues, but I mean Parson
was hard enough to get over here.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
But yeah, we have a number of countries.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Where there's like one college basketball player from that country
and we represent and we love finding guys in uncharted territory.
We I do have an idea for our next most
ridiculous adventure yet where we're doing a camp next summer,
but it's I guess I will. No one else is
going to do it. We're the only but we had
(48:32):
an in Fiji. We want to find Tonga and Samoa
because they're traditionally good football players.
Speaker 6 (48:40):
Yeah, he's got to be one.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
He's gotta be.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
One six six undersized power forward in Tonga. Somewhere we
could find and bring over.
Speaker 6 (48:47):
Well, your boy went to Duke was half Samoan.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Right, Jabarry Parker is half Tongan, and that was part
of what gave me the idea Tongans have this incredible
history in the NFL, but really is basketball players. But
I think, you know, uh, we'll find something to repurpose
if we can pull it all well.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Troy Paul Mulu is a close personal friend of mine
and I coached his son, Fatius h Fasius wants to
be a college basketball player, but he will be a
Hall of Fame football player.
Speaker 6 (49:13):
I believe whatever.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
And uh yes, so I mean there's there's now he's
half Samoe and half black and just an absolute stud
and a stud kid.
Speaker 6 (49:24):
He's amazing.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
But there there's definitely gonna be one there. By the way,
I would love to listen if you need. I will
scout the Fiji one.
Speaker 6 (49:34):
If I can.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
D can you get it so that any coach that
cans recruit they get one of those huts that's over
the water. If you guys like walk out of your
hut and you hop in the water and the water's
like crystal clue, blue clear.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
Do you all arranged?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Maybe Troy wants to come and sponsor the camp, but uh,
but yeah, I mean they.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
Get the undiscovered camps.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Like it speaks to like why we do this, Like
a lot of it I just saw, you know, money
in college basketball and jumped in the space. We've been
doing this. I've been doing since I'm fourteen. We do
because we freaking love it. So yeah, we got to
We went to Ireland and ran a camp and we
mentioned a kid. We just placed it in New Haven.
Some kids replaced it. D Two's and Juco's. We're not
making money on these guys. We're doing it because it's
fun to find up and and you know, a kid
(50:18):
thinks his future is going one way, and then Brandon
Doble shows up and next thing you know, he's a
week later on the US college campus on a full scholarship.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
It's still I feel like we had we had uh
Lukashi in Tadorvich. He just touched down last night, right
and he facetimes me from uh from Chicago as he's
getting ready to go to Green Bay, and he's like
tears in his eyes. He's just smile ear to I
can't believe I'm actually in America and get to play
(50:48):
college basketball.
Speaker 5 (50:52):
Get kind of cold.
Speaker 6 (50:53):
January Moore.
Speaker 5 (50:55):
You know, they have tears in their eyes when they
call me because they land in Dallas. They land and whatever,
but then the car is going to you know whatever
town next to an oil rig and they're like, oh
my god, I can't believe this way. Get ready for.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
Good backpack and they're just as yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Oh yeah, guys, I love catching up.
Speaker 6 (51:20):
This is awesome. DP. You gotta go some uh some money.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Obviously, Brandon's in need of a nap and George is
probably gonna be.
Speaker 6 (51:27):
Sending guys that I shouldn't have taken.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
I should have taken and yet I did not, and
I wish I had a spot for You're the best.
Speaker 6 (51:34):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (51:35):
Thanks to be good buddy.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
All Right, that's it for the All Ball Podcast. Cannot
thank my guys from the weave up. Thank you so
much for listening. You're set to download, subscribe, rate, review,
tell your friends about this podcast, which we're back after
back recording him and pump him out out on a
more regular basis. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieve.
This is All Ball
Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is
all ball.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
You're about to listen to part two of me and
my guy George. Uh. Of course, Brandon Goebel and the
great Dan Ponham and the Weave guys are going to
join me and we'll talk more about where we are
this this year, this state of recruiting in college basketball,
and we'll get to where we start the part two
(00:35):
of the discussion. In a second last time I started
to inform you about some of our guys. There's another
portion to doing kind of the tears system, which again
is what we're trying to do. Starters were starters make
one things. Rotation guys make something else, bench guys make
(00:57):
some else, Freshmen make something else. Right, that's the that's
the tea your system. But the idea of it is
spreading whatever money you have. If you have fifty thousand,
one hundred thousand, five hundred thousand, million, million, five two million,
doesn't matter, it's still to me you It's hard to
(01:19):
just go after one guy because you become beholden to
that one player and if their attitude isn't perfect, if
they're not that much better than everybody else, you're going
to have inherent jealousy. The other part to it is
if you don't build a deep program, you don't allow
yourself for a bad evol I mean, if you bring
(01:43):
in ten new players, it stands the reason two will
be way better than your thought, and two will be
far worse than your thought. Right, that's just and if
the others, if the other four it was a ten
o'ka four, the R six are exactly what you thought,
which they're not. They'll be varying levels. You're gonna have
a pretty good team. You have a pretty good team.
(02:07):
And so my guess is that it's more along the
lines of two or three are exactly what you want,
two or three are better than you thought, and two
or three are not as good as you thought. And
then there are some somebody will get hurt, somebody mentally
is not all in. But the point to it, and again,
I don't know how it'll work for us, because a
(02:28):
lot of this is you're betting on what somebody else
has and they don't even really know at this point.
But I do think it's fascinating the different ways of
spreading around some of the same money at some of
your same level. Some guys go for one or two
players and then everybody else is filler. Some people try
and pay everybody the same. Some people try a tier system.
(02:49):
There's a bunch of different ways to do it, all right,
let's get back to our discussion with the weave guys.
I think I know when so much of this mass
move bent slows, what has to happen. Take a listen
to part two of my interview here with George Dan Poneman,
(03:11):
Brandy Goebel and the Old Ballpotcast. I'll tell you when
it's gonna change when they shit a guy and then
he leaves anyway. When enough of that happens, you're like,
what's the point of me in recruiting a freshman. I'm
gonna sit him for a year. He's gonna leave anyway.
It's not worth it, Right, That's when it's gonna change.
(03:32):
When you get when you get enough sort of bitterness
over the idea that the freshmen are gonna leave, that's
when I think it happens.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Well, I mean it's already happening. People just aren't ready
to change their ways. Like coaches are creatures of habit.
They're not taking big risks I mean when we advise
young players who anybody who's not a five star, we
advise him and go a level below your highest offer,
because if you look at high major rosters, the last
three guys in the bench are always freshmen developing and
two of them transfer out. Is how do you develop
(04:02):
if you're not on the floor. So we're already advising
guys based on that reality. It's just going to take
some time for the industry to catch up to that
party is the reality and DP and I think that's
one thing we all do well is teaching them about
the long ark of their career. You know, when we're saying, hey,
you can go to X y Z school, let's look
at the long or you know, five years down the
road what to get there.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
And I think that's been one of the special values
that we do at WEAVE is putting that and implementing
that into the players that we do bring in. You know, yes,
you can go get the bag or you can come
down and you know, five years from now you're still
at that maybe making more, yeah, and have a professional career.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
We always tell guys and we bring them in, we
say we look for fit over profit, right, we want
to put in the right fit because long term you
can to get more profit if you start in the
right place. And I know people are going to hear
this and be up in arms like, oh, so you're
bringing guys in with the intention of transferring them.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
Shouldn't the intention?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
At least to no one s day is four years
at the same place, no matter what. Either you outperform
at a high major you go to the NBA, or
you underperform you transferred down at a mid major. Either
you overperform and move up, or you underperform you move down.
The four year player is rarely exists anymore. But also
I don't see a problem as long as you're not
transferring three four times. You transfer once. You do two
(05:15):
years at one place, in tiers at another, and we're
making sure our guys are taking the right forces where
they're going to graduate on time. What's wrong with getting
two years at two different places and getting two different
life experiences and two different great teachers as your coaches,
two different sets of teammates.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
But in reality, whether you like it or not, that
is the reality. So we have to react to it.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
We put guys in position where they can produce and
develop and move up rather than sitting on the bench
and watch and end up having to inevitably move down.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Melissa, I have one who I want to make it
my fourth year here. I want them to make it
be for fourth year here. But I get it it's
perdue obviously, is kind of the model for getting guys
I need to stay and then if they have that
extra year. So here's the question, where are we on
the fifth year? Right the d two guys, you have
a fifth year. Nobody knows if JUCO countcy year doesn't
(06:02):
count a year, what that is. But you go back
a year ago and we were told, hey, fifth year
of eligibility is coming. I haven't heard anything on it.
I mean, obviously it's at some point.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
We have a bunch of cases. There's a lot of
cases that are in appeal right now. So the NCAA
goes out and appeals every one of these things that
they lost earlier in the summer. There were some losses
on the player side, and there was even some commentary
from the NCUBA president that you know, oh, we're just
going to keep fighting these look we're winning all that
sort of thing. But the reality is is for every
(06:39):
ten wins, for the nc double A. If there's one loss,
that loss can really set some precedent. And so those
losses now they're in appeals. I think there's this month,
I think there's two or three of them that the
appeal hearings are. I believe PAVIA is included in that
is maybe later at the end of the month here,
(07:00):
but based on those appeals, if those appeals don't win,
now that really starts the wheels turning for hey, we
need to put something in place that will prevent a
whole other series of these from happening. The sad part
is is that the NCAA spent hundreds of millions of
dollars fighting these things and nothing's any closer to any
sort of regularity at this point. So, you know, my
(07:23):
hope is that that, honestly, that these appeals aren't successful
so that it puts the pressure on to make some
rule changes. And you know, I think again, like I think, Doug,
you and I have talked about in the past, that
the eventual reality that provides stability is going to be
that CBA and a lot of this looking a lot
more like European professional sports, and how that looks to
(07:46):
everything else. You know, Title nine and all that is.
There's a million other things going on, but it's really.
Speaker 6 (07:51):
The only thing. But don't have a CBA, right, no.
Speaker 5 (07:56):
No, right, right, But I.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Understand, So there's just sore like for people who are
listening or watching, just so we're clear. Okay, So I
think all of us believe that right now college basketball
is trending more towards the European model, right right, when
you have new team most every year, some guys are
going to stay on that same team for their lifetime,
(08:19):
but many of them are going to be changed out.
Speaker 6 (08:22):
Eventually, we'll have some sort of loan system. Right.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
We're not going to have teams that are you know,
sent down, although that would be interesting right where you're
where you're sent down a league whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Great ratings. One day hopefully we'll have that.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
That would be Believe our game late last year against
Detroit would have everybody would have been watching, right.
Speaker 6 (08:50):
But uh.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
But the problem though is that, Okay, that model doesn't
have a CBA, right, doesn't have all the American labor
laws as well, also doesn't have like one of the
things as people push for, oh they should be employees,
Like I don't see a path for them to be
employees because of I mean, the state school's kind of screwed,
(09:13):
right because you have so many different regulations over state employees.
Right to hire an assistant coach, I got to go
through hoops, you know, unless I do an emergency hire,
and I only have so many emergency hires. Otherwise I
got to form a fucking committee. You know, I got
to go through this process. I gotta go through that process, Like, dude,
you don't have the time to do that when you're
recruiting a basketball player. And then oh yeah, by the way,
(09:36):
then you're gonna you know, there's other parts to it,
but the big thing is at college athletics is a
tax free shelter.
Speaker 6 (09:42):
Right, it's tax exempt.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
So if you're gonna then pay you know, all of
these things you're going to do. If they takes away
that tax exempt status because they become employees, now you're
paying tax on stuff, the whole model changes.
Speaker 4 (09:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
We we have the advantage of the United States versus Europe. Right,
Like in Europe you have all these different countries and rules,
and it's it's impossible to have a CBA in an
environment like that. Over here. It's right now, it's a
little bit of a chicken in the egg thing right
with when the CBA happens or what happens first? Do
we get an employee exempt status? Does that happen before
(10:20):
or after a CBA? You know, what is it that
that ends up protecting what you're talking about right, which
is is there are a lot of other status issues
involved here, for for colleges, or does it come and
take an entirely different look where it's it's really its
own market and it's its own business at that point,
(10:42):
and that's what does that look like? You know, whatever
it's going to look like, we can't describe right now
because it hasn't really been presented on a table yet,
but whatever it's going to look like is very different
than what it is today because all it is today
is a bunch of lawsuits that are just going to
continue on and on and on and on. And know,
we've established it's a market. Markets have rules, and the
(11:02):
very first thing that everybody did when they determined it
was a market was try and restrict that market and
an anti trust situation here in America where we have
protections like that, now everybody goes, wait a minute, we
got we have all these things we want to, you know,
light our torches and grab our pitchforks for on both sides.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And the challenges you talked about with them becoming employees,
those are real, but they're not going to stop it
from happening because the reality is they already are employees,
they're just not classified as such.
Speaker 6 (11:31):
Oh, I think.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Eventually the realities that legality is going to match.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
What why why do you why would you want them
to be concidered employee because.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Then we can have a fair, fair negotiation with the
parties that be right now, the kids are getting railroad,
they're getting screwed. Like the reality is that the House Settlement,
in Trump's Executive Order. You know what, what they just
tried to implement, which I don't think we'll stick, is
these artificial salary restrictions under the guys of oh, they're
doing it for the good of the game and the
(12:01):
good of the player, when in reality, they're doing it
for the good of the administrators. Like I put out
a tweet thread a few weeks ago talks about the
similarities between the House Settlement the Executive Order in Jim
crow right, I use Alabama as an example, and NATO's
is a friend. I love Nato. It's great man, great coach.
I'm not picking on him, but like Nick Saban was
a big champion of these restrictions. Okay, Nick Saban, and
he was at Alabama was making ten million a year,
(12:23):
His staff was making another five or five to seven,
and then you add the basketball staff. Collectively, the football
and basketball staffs were making more than twenty point five
million for fifteen guys, twenty guys, and they're implementing an
artificial salary cap of twenty two point five million for
all of the football, all the athletes combined. They never
had a salary restrictions on coaches. There's no salary restrictions
(12:45):
on eighties president's administrators. They're trying to keep these salaries low,
keep them not classified as employees because ultimately it's better
for business. Greg Sanke wants these caps to be at
twenty point five because the last one he spent players.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
The more money you have within the within the.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
System for the right I'm gonna get the I'm gonna I'm.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
Gonna respectfully disagree with you. Okay. Now, look, first year
is where I will agree.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Is that where there is and obviously not at my level, right,
is at the high level, there are guys that have
been pigs that they make too much money. Now, part
of the reason they do that is they have the
one bad year and they have such a gigantic buyout
that you can't just fucking run them out of town. Okay,
there's a balance there, right, you need to you work
(13:36):
twenty years, and you work towards building a championship program,
and you're a quality coach, you're quality evaluator. You're also
you know, like I'm a CEO. I run a fucking business, right,
I have to balance everything I have.
Speaker 6 (13:48):
I have to have my hands on academics.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I have to have my hands on raising money, you know,
on building a schedule.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
I have all these other.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Things, hiring and firing and adjusting how much which we
spent on analytics, how much we spent on recruiting, how
much we spend on our own travel.
Speaker 6 (14:04):
All these things come under under my purview.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
So and I'm responsible for sixteen players and for six
assistant coaches and any manager, so that should be valued more.
I should make more money than than even without my
any you know, coaching experience, than any of the players.
And I would and everybody knows that. Like, we all
(14:28):
realize that it's just not that we're just not able
to most people aren't able to say it. Now, there's
a limit, right did did did Saban need ten million
dollars a year?
Speaker 6 (14:37):
No?
Speaker 5 (14:38):
No?
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Like, dude, you can live very handsomely in Tuscaloosa, Alabama
on four or five million dollars a year and then
there should be annuities, you know, where you get paid
out at the end of certain parts of the deal.
But okay, there's a limit, dp. There just is now
maybe again, even college football, the biggest college football programs
(15:00):
they make like one hundred and fifty a year, right,
make one hundred and fifty million dollars a year in
their stadium and other other revenue. Right, plus they make
the TV revenue. That's the very top. But like at
our level, bro, we're not making that much money. We
just aren't. So the only way to make that money
is for one meter win a league and then get
(15:22):
bought out and then when they use that money or
two to play all these guarantee games, which means we're
gonna get ass kicked like six seven times a year,
and then make that money and then pay it to
the players, and the cycle continues.
Speaker 6 (15:33):
But there's just not that much.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I promise you, there's just there's a limit there. You
have to have fourteen sports, so you gotta pay for
those sports. You gotta have administrations, you got to have
coaches at your level.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You're right, right, at your level is different than the
the SEC, the Big ten, the Big twelve.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Right, we'll see them a conversation.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
So let's compare it to European basketball, other pro sports
like Yeah, at the G League and low level European clubs,
there are coaches who make more of them this our players. Okay,
that's fine, But if you get to the NBA, the NFL, MLB,
usually a coach is making you know.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
What the player payroll is.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Now, we have situations in college basketball where coaches aren't
making more than the entire player payroll.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
And you'd, I would say you were right.
Speaker 2 (16:21):
When you say there's a limit to it if the
market hadn't told us otherwise. It's not like the players
are asking for us bigger slice to the TV revenue
or X, Y and Z. They just want the boosters
who want to pay them to be able to pay them.
They're having a heart actually cap to stop people who
want to spend money on winning teams from spending money
like there isn't a limit to because we saw in
this last portal that there is. These people are willing
(16:43):
to spend hand over fists to build good teams.
Speaker 7 (16:46):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Here's what you're going to run into. Okay with that, Okay,
you do run into the those guys. And here's where
it makes coaching really hard. Right, you're coaching at home
and you look across the court and all those guys
that sit course side, they're responsible for all those guys
in the bench. And it takes some brass balls to
(17:21):
sit a guy who's making money, and you know there's
one guy response for that.
Speaker 6 (17:25):
Again, I give you an example. I had a kid
last year.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
He struggled some emotionally and in trying to fit in,
and ultimately he left our program. Right, but super talented.
We weren't paying them a lot. We're paying them a little.
We play a game, and every time we get done
playing a game, I go to one or two of
the bars right next to our arena. There's one called
D two, there's one called the bar go in And
(17:48):
every game they pulled me aside.
Speaker 6 (17:50):
Like, hey man, how come you don't play so and so?
And I was like, have you been to practice?
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Now, try to practice one day, right, And finally I
played him in a game and the kid melted down, right.
And then I go to the bar afterwards because I
kind of like have to and they're like, hey man,
now I know you don't play, Like yeah, but it's
so hard to not play guys.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
Who they're paying for, right.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
It's it's you're also and I know the word power, Dan,
because you are there. You're so well read and you
understand the historic elements of it. But you do have
to have a certain power as a coach to play
who you want to play for a myriad of reasons, right,
(18:35):
And when a booster comes in and funnels money to
one or two players, and if that kid is not
acting in that listening, not engaging with teammates, is not
being a good teammates, not being coachable, not running we'll
do whatever they want in key situations, it's really really hard,
and the booster ends up having more power than the coach,
(18:57):
and it doesn't work that way, right, That's what up
and that Let's just say one big school in the
state of Texas where was really well funded, where the
boosters just first they were like, you're you're not playing
the guys we want you to.
Speaker 6 (19:11):
We paid to play.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
And then eventually when they didn't like those guys that
were playing or how I.
Speaker 6 (19:15):
Was going, then they cut off the money. They's not
paying the money. There is a certain.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Element to it to where I hear what you're saying
and power becomes like a negative word, like when it
becomes Darkonian.
Speaker 6 (19:30):
But there is a certain power that coaches still have to.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Have in order to make it all work with nineteen
to twenty two year old guys.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, well, I mean it's it's similar to politicians who
are getting paid by lobbyists and then you still have
to do it's right for the public.
Speaker 6 (19:43):
Perfect analogy.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
You might money from this.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
Lobbyist, but ultimately that's why you guys get paid get
paid to do.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
It's a new part of the job.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
It goes back to what I was saying before about
the power of saying though, the power of knowing what
recruit not to take what person to stand up to
when not to succumb to doing the wrong thing. The
right thing to do is always going to be the
right thing to do. And if you have boosters that
are trying to meddle, they think they know better than
you that that's part of the job to uh, you
know withstand that and like what you're saying are legitimate
concerns from a coaching perspective, but they're not reasons that
(20:11):
this thing won't proliferate.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
It will.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
There's always going to be a new billionaire who just
sold his company who wants to fund his alma mater.
And one point I wanted to touch on that I
would try from the last question was you talked about,
you know, how much money these programs make at the
high end of college football and basketball, and you're right,
a lot of programs aren't profitable as standalone businesses. And
that's a point that people often make, is that you know,
(20:34):
the salaries are outsized because the programs aren't profitable. But
I think the biggest point people are missing the difference
between college sports and pro sports is that in pro
sports they are standalone businesses. In college sports, they are
marketing arms for universities that are multi billion dollar corporations. Right,
So Florida Atlantic makes a final four their applications skyrocket
(20:55):
George winning program is the most effective market going to
be a four year university. So even if the program
itself is losing a little money or breaking even the
university getting millions in.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
Value from so much.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
And that's why again, even if the programs are losing money,
people are willing to continue to throw money into that
pool to for the program to win games. It's like, again,
this is America. The market should dictate if money is
being spent. And they just put in all these ridiculous
restrictions to stop people from spending money they want to spend.
And it's not going to hold. It's not going to stick.
(21:28):
The damn is going to break. And yes, people will
have to deal with boosters trying to meddle in their program.
And that's your job as a coach to protect your program,
protect your players and not let them meddle. And yes,
there's going to be there's always going to be growing pains.
But this, this ship is moving. It's inevitable. Whether it's
a year, three years, or ten years. This this is
heading towards the heading in the direction of professional sports
(21:50):
and employees and collective bargaining.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
We're going to get there. It's just about how much
we're gonna have to fight to get.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
I don't think there's any doubt that collective bartney is coming.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
They don't apparently have to be employees have collective bargaining.
That's that's what we were told, is that there's a
there's a way to do it, and I think the
question is what's the final number? And then look, there's
other parts to it, right, there's here, here's a question.
Speaker 6 (22:19):
Is there any way.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
To stop the five games into the season, kids playing
well agent pops up in their DM, you know, essentially
polluting the well in terms of where the kid's head
is at. Is there any way to prevent that?
Speaker 2 (22:39):
No, because that happens at all levels of sports. Again,
it's just like you mentioned with the rogue boosters, like
these are not ideal circumstances. There's always going to be
poison well, there's always going to be issues, but that's
not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Like, Yeah,
there's always going to be issues, but what you just
described exist in all levels of pro sports. Every time
(23:02):
I brought a guy to Europe and they work their
way up from the Netherlands to Belgium, to France to Spain.
As soon as they get to a higher level, there's
somebody in their DM, some agent being like, oh your
agent sub oh your agent scuffract I got you to early.
There's always going to be opportunists to steer people in
the wrong direction. And again that's why recruiting for character,
building a culture, having good relationships with your players is
(23:23):
so important. To be able to have real conversations with
your guys about that type of element.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
M George, what's been the most interesting going from the
coaching side to the representation side. What's the most interesting
thing that you didn't know before this season?
Speaker 4 (23:40):
It's a great question. I think the biggest thing.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
Just the whole uneducated both sides are on the on
the process and then I ole side. I think that
is even myself learning being on the other side before that.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Give me an example of something that people are uneducated on.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
So first it's you know the financial aspect, all right,
what comes with it? You know, what's the breakdown of
when when ex player sides with Green Bay? Okay, what
all that implies? With everything all right, what NIO is
what is cost of attendance?
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Right?
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Because they hear nil. But there's other factors that get
to that NIO. Money, you know, cost of attendance, you know,
things like that. So I think that education part of it,
but also the education of, to be honest, the lack
of awareness on a coach or staff where they're.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Like, hey, what player do you have?
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Then they'll they'll okay, send me video right, send me
this where basically we're doing the recruiting forum and breaking
down their film forum, which is fine, but it shows
that some staffs out there aren't doing that extra work
right now where that's why they're there and then doing
their homework on that player. Yes, we are the middleman.
(24:54):
We're here to force that player or encourage them to
go to you know, Green Bay. Now it's up to
the staff to get that job done. And I've seen
a lack of the will and want to on the
coaching side then really you know, with everything on that.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
So I think that's been the biggest eye opener for.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Me on that that It's it's been very hard because
I was like, did you watch the film? Even though
we'll send the film, did you watch it, did you
dissect it right? And then this? You know, same area,
but it's just on the athlete side. It's just the
education part of it. What comes with then now? And
I know, how does this all work? You know, where's
my fit? Where's my value? Where so many players and
(25:34):
athletes are so uneducated on that side and they just
see dollar sides and we're trying trying to figure out
to teach them about the whole process.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
And if I may see Georgie's praises for a little bit,
when you coached in college for what twenty years? Well,
so do you almost say total his first year as
an agent. I really think George is one of the
five best agents in this business already. And you know,
watching someone from coaching division to and Division three level,
you know, like you said, if you guys have been
(26:03):
at high major their whole career, there used to recruiting
in a certain way, but this is a totally different landscape.
But George, having been a utility man assistant all these
different levels of college basketball, he knows the ins and
outs of how to recruit juco, how to recruit overseas,
how to valuate film, how to find fit. I mean,
he already had that skill set, so now applying that
to the agent side, George's, you know, one of the
(26:25):
most dynamic people I've worked with because he's he's done
it all.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
He's grinded at.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Every level of college basketball. But to his point, like
a lot of people just want us to do their
jobs for them. They want us to tell them who
to take, rather than evaluating who's right for their program.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Brandon, What's uh, what surprised you the most about this,
this soul transformation in the sport?
Speaker 5 (26:48):
You know, it's it's probably you deal with the same
thing and we dealt with it in the past before
in il in a different way. But you know where
some of this advice comes from, you know, for players,
and that's been a really difficult thing now when you
inject money into this, because you know, there's a lot
(27:09):
of competing interests, there's a lot of bad advice, there's
a lot of feeling of control that you know, some
some people advisors, whether it's AU coaches, high school coaches,
family members, you know, whatever. You know, I guess I
don't know why I was surprised, but I've been a
little surprised at just how effective some of that really
(27:33):
really bad advice has been in gathering and grabbing the
attention and the buy in of players. And unfortunately, you
just see explosions all over the place where things just
go so horribly wrong because you know, this became this
is a market, this became a business real fast, right,
(27:54):
and and so there's a lot of moving parts.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
There's a lot of.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
Different rules that are changing every day, and there's contracts.
I mean, this is real big boy money. This is
the second highest paid league in the world. Now your
league's not even close to what college pays now. And
all of a sudden, all of these people that in
the past they were always like, oh, you should go
to this school instead of that school because you know whatever. Well,
now when you inject money into that, that advice becomes
(28:18):
more dangerous when it's misplaced and not educated, you know,
like Georgia is saying, the lack of education. So it's
been really interesting to see, you know, certain players and
stuff just kind of really lock in and take that advice.
And it makes your head explode because it's like, hey,
if you were going to the NBA tomorrow, would you
trust Uncle so and so to handle this school? Why
(28:42):
are you letting uncle so and so deal with this decision. Yeah,
it's not a fifty million dollar contract, but it's a
very important decision that could really change the path of
not only your basketball career but your life. You know,
and I know as a recruiter you deal with that
when you get the phone call that you're just like,
oh my gosh, I can't believe this is the person
that I'm having to try and convince my question and
(29:03):
certain things like you're oh.
Speaker 4 (29:06):
Boy, Dan real quick.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
To Brandon's point, like that would be another positive of
collective bargaining or players being able to unionize. In the NBA,
the NBA doesn't certify us as agents. The Players Association does.
Their job is to screen agents, make sure we can
pass a really complex test background checks.
Speaker 4 (29:23):
We take classes every year.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
There's a screening process for NBA agents that's done by
the Players Union. The NCAA has tried to propose programs
for certifying agents. But why should the players trust the
NCAAA telling them who.
Speaker 4 (29:35):
To sign with?
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Right, But so now there's no baer of entry for agents.
So guys are getting really bad advice from either twenty
two year old kids who are still in college or
their uncle.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Who watches college basketball. Things, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
But I always tell kids in recruiting meetings which other
agents you can feel free to use it. I say,
it's like picking a surgeon, right, we are basketball surgeons.
I've conducted thousands and thousands of heart basketball heart surgeries
over the last twenty years. I'm as skilled a surgeon
as it come. And you're gonna take some guy who
just watched er and he wants to conduct your career surgery.
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Good luck with that.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
We have twenty years of reps, Brandon and George of
twenty years of reps, and they're taking dudes who made
a website called themselves in an il agent and they're
going to totally bomb their career. But it also makes
this makes this business interesting. I'm sure it's interesting for you, Doug,
getting from all these Yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
Then damn what you going to Doug? What are some
things like you asked us, like the things you've learned
as this process that they're out this year dealing with,
you know, on the recruiting side of.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
The agent side, Like what you know the same kind
of question back.
Speaker 6 (30:41):
I think there's a lot uh yeah, with me for
a second, bear with me for a second.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
So the first thing is it is an artificial mark, right,
Like the whole this is what he's worth is an
artificial market. Now, the more you wait, it's a risky thing, right,
you can wait and a guy George, you and I
dealt with the price went up, right a lot of
(31:12):
these guys though, the ask is so big to start
that the price eventually will go down and you just
have to be patient. So I think some of my
opinion is one year in, but I'd actually like to
see how it plays out. We we didn't necessarily aim
for it, but we only have two players that have
(31:34):
representation on our roster, ok, So it's I think we
feel like that's unique. We felt like we could we
could get a little bit more bang for our buck
that way. And frankly, we just didn't have the money
to spend to get to some of these guys that
have representation. But there is especially overseas players you need
(31:55):
you need reps for. So I would rather have a
kid not than a kid wrapped by somebody who's an idiot.
And we do have idiots, right, And you know, I
saw I think the representation side, like, look you got
to tack on fifteen percent to twenty percent because you
(32:17):
know that's it's the real take home money that you
got to kind of figure out what you're what you're
going to spend. I would say that, and we're trying
to kind of figure it out as well. You you
have to have whether it's a theme or you know,
just a couple of bullet points for coach, what what do.
Speaker 6 (32:37):
You want our identity to be?
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Because if you just go out and say, Okay, I
got money to spend, I'm gonna try and go get
the best players within that money.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
But you talked about fit DP, it's totally true. Right.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
So for example, for my program, the things I identified
in the Horizon League that we had to do better, Okay,
we said we're a nightclub.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
Twenty one and over. Okay, uh, And then I said,
I valued character and toughness above all else.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Character and toughness because I just didn't think that I
thought we had good character, but I thought the good character.
Those guys that were playing at the end of the
year had great character and they were still playing hard
at the end, even though for most people that wouldn't
be allowed to play hard.
Speaker 6 (33:19):
For that, I valued that and.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Toughness, because you can't accomplish anything in this sport, especially
when you're at a load of mid major if you
don't have and even the high major if you're not
tougher than hell, because it's hard, it's cold, everybody's trying
to win, the game's crazy physical, the officiating sucks. Right,
You got to be mentally and physically fucking tough or
you can't. It doesn't matter all the plays, all the
(33:42):
shit you see on oh watch this double gap drive
and this flare screen, no matter, if the kid's not tough,
it doesn't matter. So again, you'll see my team this
year and will look different. We got to figure out
what we got. We got to figure out how all
goes together. But all those kids have great character and
a really tough and I think that there are teams
that you see that have talent, but it doesn't work
(34:05):
because sometimes you just get a job and you don't
really have you don't have a system, you don't have
a style, you can't identify it, it's too early in
the process, or it's your first time having money, and
then you just kind of put pieces together and it's
it's really hard to get them a fit.
Speaker 6 (34:19):
So that's one thing.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And you see that a lot in football, like I
think Mile Mounter Oaklama State.
Speaker 6 (34:24):
You know why they spent money this year. Why aren't
they any good?
Speaker 1 (34:27):
Well, because they didn't they had new coaches, they didn't
know exactly how they wanted to play or while they
want to look they just want to increase their talent,
which they did, but they're not a better team.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
Because they have talent, but it doesn't fit together.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
You know, you gotta find ways to save money, and
you gotta find ways to spend money. And you got
to be creative in the contracts. You got to be
creative in the recruiting. You got to separate yourself because
like otherwise, I'm just another white guy with a logo
on my shirt. I tell you to come play for me, right,
(35:02):
what makes you different?
Speaker 4 (35:05):
You know?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
And obviously what makes me different is I have this
big platform. What makes me different is there's not a
gym I go into that people don't know my name.
That people are paying attention to our program way more
than anybody at this level and even the upper level,
mid major level, Like people actually pay attention agreement of
basketball because they're interested and or maybe they don't like me,
it doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 6 (35:24):
They're paying some attention to it. So you got to lean.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Into whatever differentiates you as a program, right, And then
I'll tell you the other thing I've learned is that
real recruiting still works. Real recruiting still works because the
end of the day, you're always going to be in
the ballpark of somebody that you're in terms of money.
Speaker 6 (35:43):
Right, Yeah, you're gonna lose a kid.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
You know, you're at you're at X and somebody comes
in at two X and there's nothing you can do.
But if they're at one point five X, you know,
or even point seven five X. But the kid feels
a distinct connection with the head coach especially, you're.
Speaker 6 (36:00):
Gonna get that kid. Right. So the idea that recruiting
is just how much money. Some of it is okay, but.
Speaker 1 (36:08):
You gotta have a you gotta have a little swag
to you. You gotta have something that differentiates you. You
gotta be able connect with people. You gotta understand, all, right,
what's the who's advising him, what does he want?
Speaker 6 (36:18):
And then you also have to be willing to say
no right that the power of no right.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
It's got to be like, yeah, I love them, but
it's not gonna work because he got an agent in
his ear. He's not gonna work because he doesn't really
want to be here. And I think that you have
to find guys again. For me, I gotta find guys
that are smart, tough, want to be together. They're only
desires to win and understanding that I want them to
get more money. The best way for them to get
(36:44):
more money is us to win basketball games. And the
best way to win basketball games is to do it
collectively and try and do it our way.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
If you do that, it will all work together and
you'll get paid. And they're not. That's not gonna resonate
with all of them.
Speaker 4 (36:56):
It's not.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
And you've got to be willing on certain guys to
not go like, hey, I could pay more and make
sure I get him Like yeah, but he didn't really
want to be here, so he's not here.
Speaker 6 (37:04):
He's not going to buy in.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
He doesn't buy in knowing does not work for him,
but it doesn't work for the rest of the team,
and it just kills our mojo.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
Kills you touched on a great point that I think
there's this fallacy people. You know, I see Twitter trolls
come at me when I make public statements like, oh,
you're just a money grubbing agent. You're just selling kids
to the highest better I would say less than half
of our guys go to the highest money offer, like matters,
real relationships matter, and for us, we don't want our
(37:31):
guy to go.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
To the highest bidder if he's not going to succeed
or he's.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Not going to be happy, because yeah, we get a
little bit more money, but now he's calling us all
year and he's miserable. I'd much rather take less money
and have a kid being a really good, really happy
situation and thriving. Like, lives are better when our clients
and lives are better. Our clients lives are better when
they play for a coach to have a real relationship
with in a winning program and a winning culture. So
most kids don't take at least our kids don't take
(37:54):
just the highest dollar figure. But to your point, like
I think, actually it's funny you should have maybe given
away that seat.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Your your strategy cruiting.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Guys who don't have agentsy genius because ultimately, uh, you're
gon be able to get a lot more value if
guys don't know what their value is. And that's just
taking advantage of of of the market. But you know,
I think the way you just describe recruiting gives me
confidence that you guys are can have a great year
this year, because that's how I built my organization. Right
Like when I brought on George, I could have gone
(38:23):
to Harvard Law School and hired somebody you know, who
has this impressive resume whatever, But like I wanted grinders
who are tough, who are humble, who have compassion, who
are team players, and we're going.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
To overachieve with people who work together.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
And ultimately, like you just said, if you're taking a
bunch of guys who just went to the highest bidder,
you have a bunch.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
Of people are out with themselves.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
If you think want to come together for a greater hole,
you're gonna win. And I think I'll give a shout
out to Eric Oland when he was at UCSD. I
saw them play a few times last year. They won
with one of the lowest budgets in their league because
they found they found the right guys who wanted to
play together and work for something greater than themselves. They
almost be a tournament And that's how I've tried to
build my organization. And that's I think you said, the
(39:03):
power of no, the power of not taking that really
tantalizingly talented player.
Speaker 4 (39:07):
Who's not going to be good for your culture. You're
going much better off without of than with them.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Well that's the that's the the big thing. And this
year we don't have any We have no division on transfers.
And and this is not to cast dispersions that any
of the ones we had last year, but part of
the hypotheses or maybe even theory is especially high major kids,
they're coming coming down to our level. Their ex personal
(39:32):
expectations is to dominate, right, but they wouldn't be coming
down to our level if they dominate in college basketball.
And it takes a very very special kid to be
humble enough to know, hey, it didn't work at that
high level and I can eventually make it work here.
There was there was one or two we went after
this year we just didn't get. But that they they
(39:53):
understand that, dude, Horizon Leak's good. It was the nineteenth
rank league last year. Like it is a good hardcore
We're well coached, fucking tough and ruggedly and if you
think you're gonna come in here and just rereck shop
because you went to a power for school and didn't
play like you have it.
Speaker 6 (40:09):
It is crazy. So we wanted kind of that same mentality.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
And by the way, like as much as it sounds
DP like, you know, like it's a philosophy of not
getting guys with agents, it just kind of happened that way,
you know. And then it became guys that we sort
of leaned into, and we felt like we could we
could recruit the crap out of it if we got
in on them early and and and we did things right,
and we were really prepared for it.
Speaker 6 (40:34):
So I don't know, it's gonna be fascinating.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Let me let me ask one one last question while
Brandon falls asleep on us.
Speaker 5 (40:43):
We're here working, buddy, We're here working.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
Plays three kids in juco in the time.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Since it's not entirely untrue.
Speaker 7 (40:53):
Be sure to catch live editions of The Doug Gottlieb
Show weekdays at three pm Eastern noon Pacific on Fox
Sports Radio in the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
App Give me one guy, who do you think give
me a juco? Because you're mister Juco. Give me one
juco and you don't have to jerk me off and
tell me one of my guys. So give me one
guy if you're like this guy's going to have a
really good year at.
Speaker 5 (41:19):
A guy in JUCO right now, or a JUKEI guy
wants in Division one in Division one, oh man.
Speaker 4 (41:27):
I got a few. Yeah, well one guy I'm excited about.
So last year, we.
Speaker 5 (41:37):
Thank you for taking me out of getting in trouble.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Well, obviously guys are represented by Weaver are all awesome,
and they're all done overachieved. Of course, are the best
players in college basketball. But Jeff nwankwot at Oklahoma. He
was coming out of college Juco two years ago and
he got injured last year didn't play, so we kind
of maybe forgot about him.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
But I think he's a potentially future NBA player.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
People forgot about because he had a year out of
the game, But I think he's going a huge year
for Oklahoma. It reminds me a little bit of last year.
I had a client named John Tanja who had trans
from Colorado State, got injured, sat there at Missouri. People
forgot about him, and he ended up having an amazing
year for Wisconsin. I think Jeff could have that type
of year at Oklahoma. We also have Isaac by the way,
(42:20):
Tanji by the way.
Speaker 6 (42:21):
I don't know if you know this. He was in
the freshman B team in high school. Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Team.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
Was also on the B team at Evanston Township. So
we have that.
Speaker 6 (42:33):
I think I think your basketball careers went in different directions.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
I was really good for the Chicago j c C.
Mccoby team.
Speaker 6 (42:40):
I was.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
But the other kid I'll mentioned is Isaac Finlandson. He
was a year college. He's going to be at Hawaii
this year.
Speaker 5 (42:51):
And Doug, I'm going to tell you one quick story
about Jeff so that it doesn't hurt your heart to
pay attention to a Sooner this year. But Jeff is
jeffs is. He's a great player, he's you know, he's everything.
But but he's an elite human being. And so we
have this jamboree in Oklahoma in October. You were there.
You were there, sitting up in the windows. And so
(43:14):
I see Jeff. He comes to the event and he
wanted to say hi and catch up on whatever. But
he's got this big box with him. I was like,
what is this. It's full of cell phones, it's full
of like new iPhones and I'm like, what are you doing?
And he's like, oh. A couple of the coaches here
talked about how they had some African players that had
you know, they've come here to play junior college, but
(43:36):
they don't have any cell phones. I went and bought
him cell phones, So I'm going to go give them
to the players. These aren't players he knew. These weren't
even coaches that he played for. Like, he just there's
some kids that are going to be at this event
and they're new here and they don't have phones. So like,
I'm going to go take care of that.
Speaker 6 (43:53):
We'll tell you that that's dissimilar experience with an African
player last year.
Speaker 5 (43:58):
But Jeff's an elite, elite, elite human being, and so
I'm super excited to watch him get after it this
year because I mean, he's he's deserved, he's he's been
through a lot with George.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Give me one guy, but it better not be a
guy I fucking missed because I didn't have enough money.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I think honestly, it's a D two guy Lao Beef
lo Beef, who, Yeah, you just went out a guy,
but I just I just that's the one that really
stands out to me. You know, started at fau went
Division two just Skyrock, and you got to.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Point out, like we had a kid leave us, uh
six practices in the summer, and I love the kid, right,
He's just he's young, he's tough, he's hungry, and he's
so badly want to play. I don't even I don't
know how much he'll play this year. I thought he'd played,
but whatever. He went D two and I'm like, dude,
that's awesome. I go there, great coach, good program, go
hoop and then if you want to come back up,
(44:58):
you come back up.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Yeah. No, I think one too.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
And I think there's one that we just that just
came over and Brendan and DP of Iron is Matisse
who's at New Haven. Do's the one to keep a
real eye on that got in late. That's gonna his
upside is going to be very very special, the one
to really keep an eye on that we did. We'd
already sent you, so you're.
Speaker 6 (45:24):
The film. Thank you.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
Yeah, I didn't have They just just know that means
that we value you to where we share all these
guys with you. We know you can't take them all.
Speaker 4 (45:32):
I think so so so so DP.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
You guys did Ireland England? Right? One are the other?
Speaker 1 (45:40):
Like is there's got to be a player in India.
We actually there's a kid where to guys, where to God?
There's a kid and Iran and we just there's no
way to get emligible.
Speaker 6 (45:51):
There's just none.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
And you know Jerry Smith who's my assistant coach, he
played eleven years overseas, uh until last year or whatever,
and he a former Louisville teammate of his played in Iran.
It's like the best young player in Iran. There's also
there's China. You guys sent us the kid and.
Speaker 6 (46:13):
I don't know what happened.
Speaker 5 (46:15):
We still going through it.
Speaker 1 (46:18):
We got ghosted on that one, right, No, there is
there a player in every country, Like are you guys.
Speaker 6 (46:25):
Gonna go to India? Yeah, I mean that's in in
South Saudi Arabia And that's.
Speaker 5 (46:29):
What we've always done. Like that's how Dan and I
got into this. Really on the international side of things
was as I was helping place players in junior college,
I got a random text, melage message or a DM
from Matt McCallister who said, Hey, I'm the Tanzanian national
team coach and I said, well, there isn't one. He said,
I know, we're building it. You know, he's coached in
(46:51):
high school in Minnesota, and he said, hey, uh, you know,
I'd like to get some of these kids to college.
Do you guys want to come to Tanzania, me and
Dan and run a camp? And we said, sure, guy
from the internet that we don't know, We'll fly to
Dara Salam, Tanzanian run this camp. And the first time
we ever met the guy was in Dara Salaam and
(47:12):
that's where, you know, we found a tiki. But that's
really you know, that's the juice behind this stuff, is
being able to really like it's called undiscovered for a reason. Right.
You know, we've gone to Trinidad Tobago and found a
player from Saint Lucia that's a country of one hundred
and forty thousand people, right that is now playing at
Western Kentucky. You know, we we go and find players
(47:36):
that have never played before. You and I've talked about
the Gideon George story. Gideon never played organized basketball before.
So I really do believe you can go just about
anywhere and if you dig hard enough, you're gonna find
you're gonna find something cool, you know, And that's that's
the really exciting part about this what we do.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
And speaking of Iran, we represent the best Iranian college
basketball player, Parsifala, who is.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
And he has younger brother is really good.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
Who again, it's going to be challenging to get over
with you know, current immigration issues, but I mean Parson
was hard enough to get over here.
Speaker 4 (48:09):
But yeah, we have a number of countries.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Where there's like one college basketball player from that country
and we represent and we love finding guys in uncharted territory.
We I do have an idea for our next most
ridiculous adventure yet where we're doing a camp next summer,
but it's I guess I will. No one else is
going to do it. We're the only but we had
(48:32):
an in Fiji. We want to find Tonga and Samoa
because they're traditionally good football players.
Speaker 6 (48:40):
Yeah, he's got to be one.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
He's gotta be.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
One six six undersized power forward in Tonga. Somewhere we
could find and bring over.
Speaker 6 (48:47):
Well, your boy went to Duke was half Samoan.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
Right, Jabarry Parker is half Tongan, and that was part
of what gave me the idea Tongans have this incredible
history in the NFL, but really is basketball players. But
I think, you know, uh, we'll find something to repurpose
if we can pull it all well.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Troy Paul Mulu is a close personal friend of mine
and I coached his son, Fatius h Fasius wants to
be a college basketball player, but he will be a
Hall of Fame football player.
Speaker 6 (49:13):
I believe whatever.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
And uh yes, so I mean there's there's now he's
half Samoe and half black and just an absolute stud
and a stud kid.
Speaker 6 (49:24):
He's amazing.
Speaker 1 (49:25):
But there there's definitely gonna be one there. By the way,
I would love to listen if you need. I will
scout the Fiji one.
Speaker 6 (49:34):
If I can.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
D can you get it so that any coach that
cans recruit they get one of those huts that's over
the water. If you guys like walk out of your
hut and you hop in the water and the water's
like crystal clue, blue clear.
Speaker 4 (49:48):
Do you all arranged?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Maybe Troy wants to come and sponsor the camp, but uh,
but yeah, I mean they.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
Get the undiscovered camps.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
Like it speaks to like why we do this, Like
a lot of it I just saw, you know, money
in college basketball and jumped in the space. We've been
doing this. I've been doing since I'm fourteen. We do
because we freaking love it. So yeah, we got to
We went to Ireland and ran a camp and we
mentioned a kid. We just placed it in New Haven.
Some kids replaced it. D Two's and Juco's. We're not
making money on these guys. We're doing it because it's
fun to find up and and you know, a kid
(50:18):
thinks his future is going one way, and then Brandon
Doble shows up and next thing you know, he's a
week later on the US college campus on a full scholarship.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
It's still I feel like we had we had uh
Lukashi in Tadorvich. He just touched down last night, right
and he facetimes me from uh from Chicago as he's
getting ready to go to Green Bay, and he's like
tears in his eyes. He's just smile ear to I
can't believe I'm actually in America and get to play
(50:48):
college basketball.
Speaker 5 (50:52):
Get kind of cold.
Speaker 6 (50:53):
January Moore.
Speaker 5 (50:55):
You know, they have tears in their eyes when they
call me because they land in Dallas. They land and whatever,
but then the car is going to you know whatever
town next to an oil rig and they're like, oh
my god, I can't believe this way. Get ready for.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
Good backpack and they're just as yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Oh yeah, guys, I love catching up.
Speaker 6 (51:20):
This is awesome. DP. You gotta go some uh some money.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
Obviously, Brandon's in need of a nap and George is
probably gonna be.
Speaker 6 (51:27):
Sending guys that I shouldn't have taken.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
I should have taken and yet I did not, and
I wish I had a spot for You're the best.
Speaker 6 (51:34):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 5 (51:35):
Thanks to be good buddy.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
All Right, that's it for the All Ball Podcast. Cannot
thank my guys from the weave up. Thank you so
much for listening. You're set to download, subscribe, rate, review,
tell your friends about this podcast, which we're back after
back recording him and pump him out out on a
more regular basis. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Doug Gottlieve.
This is All Ball
Host
Doug Gottlieb
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com