September 16, 2023 • 30 mins
Doug is joined by Philz Coffee Co-Founder and investor Jacob Jaber to discuss his approach to maintaining quality control while expanding, adapting during COVID, his pick for the G.O.A.T. barista, and vision for the continued growth and success of the business in the coming years.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey, welcome in. I'm dog Gotlie.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is all ball.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
We will get back to who and I'll talk a
little bit about the double transfer conundrum that a lot
of these players and coaches are waiting to find out
if they're there their players are cleared, especially after the
tes Walker issue.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We'll get to that upcoming episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I thought you'd enjoy a continued conversation with Jacob Jaber, who,
of course is the co founder of Philostoffee and now
investor and part of the board there. In this episode,
we'll get to the fact that they went from a
mom and pop to two stores to eighty stores and growing.
How do you how do you maintain the same level quality?
(00:47):
Really hard, right, because I think that's what happens when
you're a coach. You know, is now all of a sudden,
you go from a lower level to a higher level.
You have to hire assistance around, You have to hire
people to help you with the program. How do you
maintain that same level of personal care when you know
you're being pulled in fifty different directions? Fascinating right, Here's
(01:09):
the second part of my conversation with Jacob Jaber, when
did the overall expansion come.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Late like two thousand and thirteen. Twelve actually is when
we started expanding. We had like ten stores. We had
like ten or eleven stores. In twenty thirteen. We were
opening one here, one there, and then we start opening
five a year, then ten a year. Now we have
like eighty.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
What's the feeling like?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
What's the feeling like? So damn fun, hard and fun,
all the things that I wanted at the time, right
like just hard, challenging fun. It was kind of like
reminding me of a game, right, Like when I was
building the care It's like, Okay, you step out from
thirty thousand feet, you're watching the map, you're watching the picture.
(01:57):
You're trying to paint, and if you're so focused on
one corner of the canvas, you're going to miss the
big picture. But if you're not focused on that one
corner of the canvas, it's going to be not good
or not great. So I think that's one of the
things I understood, is this idea of understand the bigger
picture that you're trying to paint and know how to
(02:20):
drop in in different parts of it. Because you're managing
a system you have hundreds of employees, then you have
a thousand employees. So I think that was very natural
for me, and gaming taught me that, not school, and
so for me it was like a game. It was
a lot of fun. And I'm very competitive. I'm very
(02:40):
ambitious from basketball to gaming, and I'm a source sport too.
If i lose, I'm going to talk crap and I'm
going to say play again. I'm not gonna leave until
I win. And i might never win, but I'm not
gonna leave. I'm not gonna lay. That's my and even
today I have that hunger and that drive. So for me,
just the idea of expanding and growth was a great
(03:02):
challenge and then how do you do it with quality?
Made it so much fun.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, so let's let's let's dig in there. Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's also a very competitive market, right, especially compared to
when you started, because you have you have Coffee Bean, Starbucks, Duncan.
And I know they're not all direct competitors, peets. I'm
(03:31):
sure there's there's others that I'm missing right tons, but
but there.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Everybody has kind of their their own thing.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And you're also by the way in you know, you
started in California, northern California where.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It's it's especially competitor.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's all like you're in a small town or in
the Midwest, where you know, you kind of got your
own thing.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
One of the best food places in America, no question.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
So okay, so what in expanding.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I think the first thing is, you guys had this
mom and pop shop, so to feel furniture from home,
literally a family owned business. When you start expanding to
ten stores, what are the things, the absolutes, the non
negotiables you have to have in these stores.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, so it was certainly a lot harder to control
quality right when we had ten stores, to your point,
and by the way, real quick on competition, it's like
some people are motivated by having an enemy and going
after the enemy, and that works for a lot of people,
But for us, we didn't even think about competition. We
(04:48):
were motivated about delighting our customer. And I'm not just
saying that that's not fluff, we really mean it. Like
we were just absolutely like motivated by making sure customers
had the best SA experience. And that helped us in
a very big way because instead of putting our energy
on others, we put our energy on the most important stakeholder,
the customer. So that's that. But honestly, I would drive
(05:13):
around like a madman, visiting stores, checking in on employees,
seeing if they needed help. And when I went into
a store, I didn't walk in with a clipboard and
say you're doing this right, you're doing this wrong, You're
doing I went and I helped them. I developed rapport.
I was relatable because I was a briest to myself.
I got to know them. So on one end, you
(05:36):
want to be really tough and have high standards. On
the other end, these are people and human beings. So
I recognized the importance of knowing their names, building a
relationship with them. And we did such a great job
at hiring that I didn't need to go in and
hammer down. I went in to try to inspire and motivate.
(05:59):
And maybe there are some things that had to correct
here and there, but you know, you go from making
coffee to driving around stores, and that was the thing
the business needed at that time. And then once you
get to fifteen twenty stores, you have to find someone
to manage the ten stores, who manage ten store managers,
and then you got to make sure they're good. That's
(06:20):
one of the hardest positions actually is the store manager
is the most important position of each store. They're like
the fill of the store. But the district manager, who
manages ten stores, that's a very difficult position to find.
It's it's difficult because you need to know how to
bounce around in a very good way. You need to
(06:42):
know how to spend your time. You need to know
how to prioritize, you need to know when to dig in.
You need it, you know, So I think you just adapt.
You have to adapt. And this is why you got
to know the big picture, because if you don't know
the big picture, you can't scale right. Like I know
that there's no way we could have gotten to ten
or twenty or thirty or forty fifty stores if I
(07:03):
kept making coffee. I can't make coffee at ten stores
at once. So you gotta And then I got, really,
I just got. I just got obsessed with developing the
playbook the system.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Who's the greatest barrista ever? Who's the one? And you
have to remove yourself and your dad from this?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, besides us, I will say the greatest. So there's
a guy named Greg Matt. Greg Matt was a friend
and early customer of my dad. He's an amazing guy actually,
and Greg started helping us out and working with us
in the very early days. And I've never come across
(07:47):
someone with more passion as much as that, Like he
shared his passion with as the level that we had,
and he's so damn good with customers, and he would
obsess about quality more than I would. And I was like,
that's amazing. So he was great. I mean he was
like us in that sense where he had an owner's
(08:09):
hat on all the time. All the time, he had
an owner's hat on. So and Greg is still you know,
connected and great, we're you know, So that's that's Greg Matt.
I mean there are so many though, to be honest,
There's a guy named Demetrius Dix who was a doctor
and while he was going to middle school, he was
(08:30):
a medical school. It's a barista. This guy was off
the charts Ferry Street, second Store, Verry Street, and oh man,
like this guy had a work ethic better than us.
This guy had an attitude better than us. He was
(08:51):
just amazing. Like just you know what, you know, when
you come across someone's just positive, like positive all the time,
can do attitude not all you know, never that like, yeah, absolutely,
you got it. You know, it's like, you know, one
of the secrets for the young generation. They don't understand
this is I wish every young person would understand this
in life is do more than you're paid for, Do
(09:15):
more than what's expected of you, and good things will
happen over time. Maybe in that not in that moment.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
That that is as an unbelievable sentence.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Okay, so okay, so now we get to the hard part.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yep, let's let's start. Let's start with covid.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
What was covid like when you're running this expanding business
and by the way, the business is all about the
personal touch right now, you can obviously with the app
you could still order right, but the ability to have
personal touch relationship did in a store.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Like all of these.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Things changed dramatically, and you know, so many retails got crushed.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
What was Covid like?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
You know, the few weeks leading up to the shutdown,
on one end, we were like, oh, this shit's gonna pass.
You know, no one knew, right there was so much
uncertainty and then fear and all that stuff, and they
were like, oh, we're probably not gonna have to close down.
And then the week before the shutdown, things started to
get more and then we were all in the office
(10:29):
and the headquarters in the talking about what to do
because the mayor went out and said non essential businesses
need to shut down. Except on one end, we were
like in shock, and the first thing that came to
my mind is how do we not die? So twenty nineteen,
(10:49):
mind you, was an extraordinary year for us. Leading twenty twenty,
the early months extraordinary, like we were doing the best
of our history, and all of a sudden, this dark
storm comes around and up ends the entire business and
ninety percent of the revenue goes away overnight. I'm thinking
(11:14):
about cash in the bank, I'm thinking about people, I'm
thinking about culture. I'm thinking about so many things. And
one of the things we prioritize immediately was people. So
how do we take care of the team and the customers?
And mind you, remember like at this time we all
didn't know the whole world, Like we didn't really know
what this thing was, what it meant, the severity of it.
(11:36):
Like for us, it was more dealing airing on the
side of conservative being conservative because we did not know
the risk, right like, let's say this pandemic had a
mortality or eate of fifty percent, right, Like, thank god
we were conservative, right, so it luckily it didn't and
it was way overblown in many ways. But we don't
(11:57):
need to get into that. We don't need to get
into that.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
But no, but nobody knew at the time.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Nobody knew there was uncertainty. What happens when there's uncertainty,
there's and it's health risk, there's fear right there. You
look back to the nineteen twenties of the past pandemics
and you just don't know, right, So there's a lot
of uncertainty. So we were dealing with uncertainty so very easily. Okay,
we can't control this. We can't control this, BAM immediate
(12:27):
action on all the things we can control. We had
to furlough employees to cut our costs. We had to
take care employees and make sure that you know, during
the time we're closed, how do we support them with
health care and payment. I worked with our operations team
on how do we reopen as quickly as we can.
I want to have it as soon as we close
the stores for a few weeks. The next day I
(12:49):
called up our COO and I was like, we need
a plan right away on how do we reopen And
he was like, but we just closed the store. And
he agreed with me though, he was like he was
fantastic this time. And we came up with a plan
on how do we reopen in a distance healthy? You know,
well they six foot distance and all that stuff, and
(13:09):
we were and then we adapted, and then we reopened
the stores and things were better, but we still were
significantly impacted. Mind you. A lot of our stores not
a lot of them, but a good amount were in
like these office financial districts where nobody went well, not just.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
That you were in.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Like I've been to two of the stores in Chicago,
and I can tell you I traveled during that time.
I traveled some. The next year, I remember traveling. And
it was before we kind of became friends. I told you,
since like Chicago has hit way harder than anything anybody
could realize. Right, you're in Chicago, You're in d C.
(13:48):
You're in San Francisco, and these are these are cities
that were just devastated, annihilated. Yeah, and and still you know,
I think probably this summer, you know, more than I
this summer is like the first real Okay, everybody's we're
kind of sort of back, but you know, it's changed
(14:10):
where people live, right, not as many people live in
the city. They're like, dude, why do I live in
the cudy? So yeah, it was okay, So that's an
incredible part of the story. The next part of the
story is and this is a little bit twenty nineteen,
but I think it's something that, having spoken to other
(14:30):
business owners, I know to be a real thing is
minimum wage is increased, but it's turned to where so
many minimum wage workers are really apathetic towards work, Right,
it's just something they do. They don't And again I'm
(14:52):
speaking in grand terms, maybe not the people you hire, but.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
It's not only hot.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Like I have a friend who runs a business, a
big restaurant in Oklahoma. He's like, it's not just hard
to find people, it's hard to keep people. We actually
give people bonuses for showing up to work. Whereas you're
telling me, and I agree with, like the idea, do
more than you're getting paid for. That's not the mentality
(15:20):
of a majority of people who are looking for work.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
What has that been like?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Because it does feel like the workforce has has adjusted
a great deal.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, well the government hindsight's always twenty twenty, right, But
like the government stimulated the economy in a really big way.
They've come up with rules and regulations and you know,
the try. I guess on one end, they're trying to
(15:53):
do the right thing, because again there was so much uncertainty,
but they they you know, incentives, behaviors, and I think
the unintended the unintended consequence of the stimulus and the
regulations change the incentive structure so that you actually can
(16:20):
still get paid without having a work and that's bad
and and and and I'm not even speaking from an individual.
That's actually not good for people. Now, I want to
separate this from people that there are people that had
COVID and health issues and all, Like you've got to
(16:40):
support people on one end, No.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
No, I I absolutely, But but there is something completely
unhealthy to the mentality, Like.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
There's people taking advantage. Yeah, easy to take advantage of
the system, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Right, right, and and you know, and and again.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
This is a lot I believe it's a lot like
many of the things the government did in terms of COVID,
Like they had the best intentions at heart. Yeah, the
best intentions at heart in terms of, you know, giving
people money so that they could just get by when
they're not working with everything, Like all of those are good,
are well intentioned, Yeah, but they're they're whatever your well
(17:18):
intentions are.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
There's a percentage of people that take advantage.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Of it and maybe not even took advantage of it
as much as it changes the mentality like this is.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, I agree, and this is.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
A real thing.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Like we I've talked about this with professional athletes before.
How do you and this is kind of a little
bit even your kids, how do you create the hunger
and desire to make it when you've made it and
your kids, Like, all you want for your kids is
to be in a better school, a better house, a
(17:49):
better life than you had. On the other hand, you
want them to still have the desire for more yep,
you know, and and a passion to make their kids'
lives better when they got it. But they got it
pretty good, so you know, I mean, how many It's
actually the thing I marveled at with Steph Curry, which
is like that dude's hungry to be great even though
(18:13):
he grew up that was a pro private schools, counter
to so many of us who have frankly kind of
soft kids, and we have soft kids because their lives
are way easier than them.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I just get I agree with that. There's a great
quote which you've probably heard, other people have probably heard,
which is like hard times create strong people. Strong people
create good times. Good times create weak people. Weak people
create hard times. Yeah, and I love that. It's exactly
(18:45):
what you're saying. I think, like, like you can't, like
we need to teach resiliency, you know, we need to
embrace hardships, because the fact is life is difficult. It's hard,
and the goal should not be happiness. The goal should
be joy, The goal should be community. That you'll get
(19:07):
happiness as a result of these things. But you know,
Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's partner, has a great saying is
if you want to be happy in life, lower your expectations.
And on one end, I completely agree with that, like
lower your expectations on life, like don't expect anything from life,
you know, So I like, I like this tension between
having high expectations for yourself and your friends and your
(19:30):
community and your family, but at the end of the day,
have low expectations in terms of what you should expect
back from life, and I think that's a good way
to live because then you're not sitting there expecting things
from people. It's like, oh, I did this, I expect that.
That's not a healthy way to Let's not that's not
the right mindset. The right mindset is to be grateful.
It's to to to try to have a positive attitude,
(19:54):
to do the right thing. You know, when no one's watching,
is very important. People with kindness, no matter where they come,
for how they look like, just you treat people well,
that's like very important to us. But yeah, I think
it's just very interesting how COVID has upended many dimensions
(20:14):
of life and culture. Or maybe it's actually revealed things
in some ways. So I'm not so sure, but what
I will say is that incentives matter. We were very
fortunate because our team members were absolutely amazing and supported
us as much as possible through the process. It was
hard for them, it was hard for us, but you know,
(20:35):
we worked through it together. So we were lucky in
that respect. But resiliency.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
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Speaker 2 (20:53):
It's like, you don't want people to be bullied and humiliated.
On the other hand, you do wanted them to be pushed.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
And and and sometimes obviously less it's short of bullying,
short of humiliating amid how do you what motivates people?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, you know, can you only motivate through positive affirmation?
Somewhat that helps, but sometimes, you know, sometimes being picked
last in the playground or you know, not getting a
participation trophy, sometimes that's a real thing that motivates.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, how do you deal with that with kids? So
if you see a young one who didn't win, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I'm not great at it because I'm.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
More old school.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So I run a basketball program, and what I try
and do is I try and my whole idea is
to teach the why. You know, how I teach basketball.
It's the why, not the what, and how. I teach
how we how we should feel about things. It's the
why not the what. And what I mean by that
is like, hey, why do we win or why do
(22:04):
we lose? And if it's the well, we just didn't
make shots. Generally, that's not the case. But if it is,
it's like, Okay, well why did we make shots? Did
we not take good shots? Have we not been working enough?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
You know?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Are the guys that are taking the shots not the
right guys because they haven't they haven't worked hard enough.
You know, you shouldn't feel bad if you miss shots
when you.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Have them in practice.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Just can't because you're asking something of your body, which
is nearly a possible. You know, Steph Curry is the
greatest shoutar we've ever seen. He doesn't mean make half
his shots. Yeah, so uh, but if you're allowed to
be upset, if you know you practice these shots, you
usually make these shots, and you just work, they're in
and out.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
You're just unlucky. I try and teach the why why
do we win?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Why we lose? What can we take from this experience?
What we got to do to get better? But we
got to be what it looks like, you know, and
and trying to do long a And I can do
that because I'm not doing I'm not running a program
for money.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
You know, it's a money loser for me because the
time spend.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And I can do it because you know, I've tried
to surround myself with kids and parents who are my
kind of people. Yeah, but it's not easy, but I
think it's to me in sports is teaching the why.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I think you always tell me, Like at a young age,
he said, I want to show you the good, the bad,
and the ugly. I don't want to lie to you.
And he said, wherever you go, build a church, but
know that there's good, bad and ugly. Be exposed to
all of it at a young age, because this is
real life and there's always going to be good, bad
and ugly. But again, build a church wherever you go.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I love them. What what does he think of the company?
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I mean, he's very proud of what we've built. And
he has maybe a thousand customers phone numbers. They text him,
they talk to him, They love him because my dad
just made friends with everybody. If you walked into the
store and he saw you sitting there on your laptop,
and he saw someone sit next to you with their laptop,
(24:16):
he walk up to you and say, why are you
guys sitting like a plant. You're sitting three feet away
from each other. You haven't even introduced yourself. What kind
of what is this? Hi, what's your name? What, he'd
introduced people, he'd connect people. You know, that's just kind
of just kind of his thing. He loved, he loved,
he loves people, and so he you know, he's he's
(24:40):
loved by the employees, he's loved by customers, and he's
very proud of what we built and it's very important
for him to make sure we keep going in the
right way, we don't forget where we came from.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
What is what's the ceiling for the couple?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Well, I think it's just about I like this idea
of like getting better and getting bigger. It's good to
keep getting better and sometimes to get better, just don't
do stupid stuff. There's another great quote by Charlie Munger.
I'm a fan of this guy anyways. He says avoiding
stupidity is more important than seeking brilliance. So he had
(25:19):
this great story where he was in wartime. His job
was they didn't have the technology back then. His job
was to monitor the skies because there was all the
pilots and planes flying around and weather could kill them.
So his job was to make sure the pilots who
were flying did not die. So he was unsure how
(25:41):
to approach the job. But what he decided to do
is he took a blank piece of paper and he
wrote down all the ways on how he can kill
the pilots in the air. So he literally wrote down
ten ways or whatever it was. Here's all the ways
I can kill the pilots. And he said, the only
thing I did was avoid those things and it worked.
(26:03):
So just avoid being stupid is actually brilliant.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
What about for you? What's that's the dream? You're You're, You're, you're, you're,
you're fifty. What does it look like?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Honestly? Like healthy family. Uh, that's thriving and happy and
having a good community around me. Phill's continue. I'm not
running the day to day anymore. I'm still on the board, chairman,
founder and all that, but we have a good team
in place managing the day to day but making sure
PHILLS reaches its fullest potential. I'm doing a lot of
(26:40):
like investing and building. So I love small businesses, and
there's a lot of small businesses out there. You know.
It's like there's that Italian deli that's been around for
twenty years. There's two or three shops and they're always packed.
They have fans not customers. And it's like, man, there's
be so many more of these wonderful Italian deli shops.
(27:03):
How can you go in and help these founders grow?
Kind of like what we did with Phils. So I
love this idea of getting to know the best small
businesses out there, out there, food, beverage, retail, brick and motor,
and just trying to figure out how to help them,
help them grow. And that can come in a variety
of ways. But that's what I've been doing. I've been
(27:24):
developing great relationships with great founders. Some of them have
all these different situations. Sometimes they want to retire, sometimes
they need help sometimes, you know. And the funny thing is,
like I grew up in Silicon Valley, right, and everybody's
in technology and entrepreneurs and they have huge ambitions and goals.
(27:45):
There's a lot of business owners out there that don't
want to grow. They just this is a lifestyle for them.
They want to keep doing their craft and that's cool
and that's great. So growth isn't always the best answer.
The best answers to enjoy what you're doing and love
what you're doing and be around good people. And I
(28:07):
think that's It's as simple as it. Like, honestly, you
know what fun it at fifty, it'd be nice to
be sitting down at a nice dinner with a glass
of wine with family. That's it. That's like, those are
the best moments, right, So how do you have more
good moments and less bad moments? You have more good
moments by having good energy, and you reduce the bad
(28:29):
moments by staying away from bad energy. So just more
good energy, less bad energy. If I like someone they
have good energy, I spend more time. If I don't
like it, I avoid. So avoid the stupid stuff and
try to just focus on the good stuff. But keep
your expectations tempered, because you know, it's like when there's
(28:49):
a vacation coming up in a month, everyone's looking forward
to it is excited. It's like, it's okay to not
have something to look forward to. Be okay with that.
And I think that's when you have more joy in
your license.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Hey man, you've been incredibly generous from your time. It's
a remarkable story you too.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
This has been fun. Why don't we get to play
ball whenever?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Whenever we'll play basketball. We can play pick a ball.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Oh no, basketball, I want to play basketball with you.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Let's all right, we're gonna play basketball. I'm gonna set it.
I'll text you. I'll set it up.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Text me one day. I would love that.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Okay, I've gotten back to where I'm playing a couple
of times times a week.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I want to see this, uh kind of awkward. Awkward.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
But I'm a little bit better now, I'm a little
bit more.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
But I want to.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
But it's effective. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter as
long as it goes in. Yeah, exactly, as long as
it goes nobody nobody cares. As long as it goes in,
and and then the and then the big thing is
is adults, we don't get hurt. Yeah, we don't get
hurt and have a couple and have a couple of coffee.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
That sounds amazing, Jacob, thanks so much, man.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Of course, all right, Jacob was awesome with this time.
That was I learned so much.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
And of course it makes you want to go get
a cup of coffee when you're just thinking about it,
especially with his love and passion for what he did,
plus love the idea of his dad knowing everyone's name,
everyone's story and telling them to not sit at the
same table with somebody else with the laptop and instead
of introduce themselves, it's just successful. People are successful for
(30:19):
a recent winners win as coaches like to say, thanks
so much for listening and Rand on the Doug gotlib
shows daily three to five Eastern called two Pacific. You
could listen on the iHeartRadio Act as well. I'm Doug Gotlieb.
This is all ball
Hey, welcome in. I'm dog Gotlie.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is all ball.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
We will get back to who and I'll talk a
little bit about the double transfer conundrum that a lot
of these players and coaches are waiting to find out
if they're there their players are cleared, especially after the
tes Walker issue.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We'll get to that upcoming episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I thought you'd enjoy a continued conversation with Jacob Jaber, who,
of course is the co founder of Philostoffee and now
investor and part of the board there. In this episode,
we'll get to the fact that they went from a
mom and pop to two stores to eighty stores and growing.
How do you how do you maintain the same level quality?
(00:47):
Really hard, right, because I think that's what happens when
you're a coach. You know, is now all of a sudden,
you go from a lower level to a higher level.
You have to hire assistance around, You have to hire
people to help you with the program. How do you
maintain that same level of personal care when you know
you're being pulled in fifty different directions? Fascinating right, Here's
(01:09):
the second part of my conversation with Jacob Jaber, when
did the overall expansion come.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Late like two thousand and thirteen. Twelve actually is when
we started expanding. We had like ten stores. We had
like ten or eleven stores. In twenty thirteen. We were
opening one here, one there, and then we start opening
five a year, then ten a year. Now we have
like eighty.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
What's the feeling like?
Speaker 3 (01:36):
What's the feeling like? So damn fun, hard and fun,
all the things that I wanted at the time, right
like just hard, challenging fun. It was kind of like
reminding me of a game, right, Like when I was
building the care It's like, Okay, you step out from
thirty thousand feet, you're watching the map, you're watching the picture.
(01:57):
You're trying to paint, and if you're so focused on
one corner of the canvas, you're going to miss the
big picture. But if you're not focused on that one
corner of the canvas, it's going to be not good
or not great. So I think that's one of the
things I understood, is this idea of understand the bigger
picture that you're trying to paint and know how to
(02:20):
drop in in different parts of it. Because you're managing
a system you have hundreds of employees, then you have
a thousand employees. So I think that was very natural
for me, and gaming taught me that, not school, and
so for me it was like a game. It was
a lot of fun. And I'm very competitive. I'm very
(02:40):
ambitious from basketball to gaming, and I'm a source sport too.
If i lose, I'm going to talk crap and I'm
going to say play again. I'm not gonna leave until
I win. And i might never win, but I'm not
gonna leave. I'm not gonna lay. That's my and even
today I have that hunger and that drive. So for me,
just the idea of expanding and growth was a great
(03:02):
challenge and then how do you do it with quality?
Made it so much fun.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Okay, so let's let's let's dig in there. Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's also a very competitive market, right, especially compared to
when you started, because you have you have Coffee Bean, Starbucks, Duncan.
And I know they're not all direct competitors, peets. I'm
(03:31):
sure there's there's others that I'm missing right tons, but
but there.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
Everybody has kind of their their own thing.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
And you're also by the way in you know, you
started in California, northern California where.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
It's it's especially competitor.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's all like you're in a small town or in
the Midwest, where you know, you kind of got your
own thing.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
One of the best food places in America, no question.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
So okay, so what in expanding.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I think the first thing is, you guys had this
mom and pop shop, so to feel furniture from home,
literally a family owned business. When you start expanding to
ten stores, what are the things, the absolutes, the non
negotiables you have to have in these stores.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Yeah, so it was certainly a lot harder to control
quality right when we had ten stores, to your point,
and by the way, real quick on competition, it's like
some people are motivated by having an enemy and going
after the enemy, and that works for a lot of people,
But for us, we didn't even think about competition. We
(04:48):
were motivated about delighting our customer. And I'm not just
saying that that's not fluff, we really mean it. Like
we were just absolutely like motivated by making sure customers
had the best SA experience. And that helped us in
a very big way because instead of putting our energy
on others, we put our energy on the most important stakeholder,
the customer. So that's that. But honestly, I would drive
(05:13):
around like a madman, visiting stores, checking in on employees,
seeing if they needed help. And when I went into
a store, I didn't walk in with a clipboard and
say you're doing this right, you're doing this wrong, You're
doing I went and I helped them. I developed rapport.
I was relatable because I was a briest to myself.
I got to know them. So on one end, you
(05:36):
want to be really tough and have high standards. On
the other end, these are people and human beings. So
I recognized the importance of knowing their names, building a
relationship with them. And we did such a great job
at hiring that I didn't need to go in and
hammer down. I went in to try to inspire and motivate.
(05:59):
And maybe there are some things that had to correct
here and there, but you know, you go from making
coffee to driving around stores, and that was the thing
the business needed at that time. And then once you
get to fifteen twenty stores, you have to find someone
to manage the ten stores, who manage ten store managers,
and then you got to make sure they're good. That's
(06:20):
one of the hardest positions actually is the store manager
is the most important position of each store. They're like
the fill of the store. But the district manager, who
manages ten stores, that's a very difficult position to find.
It's it's difficult because you need to know how to
bounce around in a very good way. You need to
(06:42):
know how to spend your time. You need to know
how to prioritize, you need to know when to dig in.
You need it, you know, So I think you just adapt.
You have to adapt. And this is why you got
to know the big picture, because if you don't know
the big picture, you can't scale right. Like I know
that there's no way we could have gotten to ten
or twenty or thirty or forty fifty stores if I
(07:03):
kept making coffee. I can't make coffee at ten stores
at once. So you gotta And then I got, really,
I just got. I just got obsessed with developing the
playbook the system.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Who's the greatest barrista ever? Who's the one? And you
have to remove yourself and your dad from this?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, besides us, I will say the greatest. So there's
a guy named Greg Matt. Greg Matt was a friend
and early customer of my dad. He's an amazing guy actually,
and Greg started helping us out and working with us
in the very early days. And I've never come across
(07:47):
someone with more passion as much as that, Like he
shared his passion with as the level that we had,
and he's so damn good with customers, and he would
obsess about quality more than I would. And I was like,
that's amazing. So he was great. I mean he was
like us in that sense where he had an owner's
(08:09):
hat on all the time. All the time, he had
an owner's hat on. So and Greg is still you know,
connected and great, we're you know, So that's that's Greg Matt.
I mean there are so many though, to be honest,
There's a guy named Demetrius Dix who was a doctor
and while he was going to middle school, he was
(08:30):
a medical school. It's a barista. This guy was off
the charts Ferry Street, second Store, Verry Street, and oh man,
like this guy had a work ethic better than us.
This guy had an attitude better than us. He was
(08:51):
just amazing. Like just you know what, you know, when
you come across someone's just positive, like positive all the time,
can do attitude not all you know, never that like, yeah, absolutely,
you got it. You know, it's like, you know, one
of the secrets for the young generation. They don't understand
this is I wish every young person would understand this
in life is do more than you're paid for, Do
(09:15):
more than what's expected of you, and good things will
happen over time. Maybe in that not in that moment.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
That that is as an unbelievable sentence.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Okay, so okay, so now we get to the hard part.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Yep, let's let's start. Let's start with covid.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
What was covid like when you're running this expanding business
and by the way, the business is all about the
personal touch right now, you can obviously with the app
you could still order right, but the ability to have
personal touch relationship did in a store.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Like all of these.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Things changed dramatically, and you know, so many retails got crushed.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
What was Covid like?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
You know, the few weeks leading up to the shutdown,
on one end, we were like, oh, this shit's gonna pass.
You know, no one knew, right there was so much
uncertainty and then fear and all that stuff, and they
were like, oh, we're probably not gonna have to close down.
And then the week before the shutdown, things started to
get more and then we were all in the office
(10:29):
and the headquarters in the talking about what to do
because the mayor went out and said non essential businesses
need to shut down. Except on one end, we were
like in shock, and the first thing that came to
my mind is how do we not die? So twenty nineteen,
(10:49):
mind you, was an extraordinary year for us. Leading twenty twenty,
the early months extraordinary, like we were doing the best
of our history, and all of a sudden, this dark
storm comes around and up ends the entire business and
ninety percent of the revenue goes away overnight. I'm thinking
(11:14):
about cash in the bank, I'm thinking about people, I'm
thinking about culture. I'm thinking about so many things. And
one of the things we prioritize immediately was people. So
how do we take care of the team and the customers?
And mind you, remember like at this time we all
didn't know the whole world, Like we didn't really know
what this thing was, what it meant, the severity of it.
(11:36):
Like for us, it was more dealing airing on the
side of conservative being conservative because we did not know
the risk, right like, let's say this pandemic had a
mortality or eate of fifty percent, right, Like, thank god
we were conservative, right, so it luckily it didn't and
it was way overblown in many ways. But we don't
(11:57):
need to get into that. We don't need to get
into that.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
But no, but nobody knew at the time.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Nobody knew there was uncertainty. What happens when there's uncertainty,
there's and it's health risk, there's fear right there. You
look back to the nineteen twenties of the past pandemics
and you just don't know, right, So there's a lot
of uncertainty. So we were dealing with uncertainty so very easily. Okay,
we can't control this. We can't control this, BAM immediate
(12:27):
action on all the things we can control. We had
to furlough employees to cut our costs. We had to
take care employees and make sure that you know, during
the time we're closed, how do we support them with
health care and payment. I worked with our operations team
on how do we reopen as quickly as we can.
I want to have it as soon as we close
the stores for a few weeks. The next day I
(12:49):
called up our COO and I was like, we need
a plan right away on how do we reopen And
he was like, but we just closed the store. And
he agreed with me though, he was like he was
fantastic this time. And we came up with a plan
on how do we reopen in a distance healthy? You know,
well they six foot distance and all that stuff, and
(13:09):
we were and then we adapted, and then we reopened
the stores and things were better, but we still were
significantly impacted. Mind you. A lot of our stores not
a lot of them, but a good amount were in
like these office financial districts where nobody went well, not just.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
That you were in.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Like I've been to two of the stores in Chicago,
and I can tell you I traveled during that time.
I traveled some. The next year, I remember traveling. And
it was before we kind of became friends. I told you,
since like Chicago has hit way harder than anything anybody
could realize. Right, you're in Chicago, You're in d C.
(13:48):
You're in San Francisco, and these are these are cities
that were just devastated, annihilated. Yeah, and and still you know,
I think probably this summer, you know, more than I
this summer is like the first real Okay, everybody's we're
kind of sort of back, but you know, it's changed
(14:10):
where people live, right, not as many people live in
the city. They're like, dude, why do I live in
the cudy? So yeah, it was okay, So that's an
incredible part of the story. The next part of the
story is and this is a little bit twenty nineteen,
but I think it's something that, having spoken to other
(14:30):
business owners, I know to be a real thing is
minimum wage is increased, but it's turned to where so
many minimum wage workers are really apathetic towards work, Right,
it's just something they do. They don't And again I'm
(14:52):
speaking in grand terms, maybe not the people you hire, but.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
It's not only hot.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Like I have a friend who runs a business, a
big restaurant in Oklahoma. He's like, it's not just hard
to find people, it's hard to keep people. We actually
give people bonuses for showing up to work. Whereas you're
telling me, and I agree with, like the idea, do
more than you're getting paid for. That's not the mentality
(15:20):
of a majority of people who are looking for work.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
What has that been like?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Because it does feel like the workforce has has adjusted
a great deal.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Yeah, well the government hindsight's always twenty twenty, right, But
like the government stimulated the economy in a really big way.
They've come up with rules and regulations and you know,
the try. I guess on one end, they're trying to
(15:53):
do the right thing, because again there was so much uncertainty,
but they they you know, incentives, behaviors, and I think
the unintended the unintended consequence of the stimulus and the
regulations change the incentive structure so that you actually can
(16:20):
still get paid without having a work and that's bad
and and and and I'm not even speaking from an individual.
That's actually not good for people. Now, I want to
separate this from people that there are people that had
COVID and health issues and all, Like you've got to
(16:40):
support people on one end, No.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
No, I I absolutely, But but there is something completely
unhealthy to the mentality, Like.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
There's people taking advantage. Yeah, easy to take advantage of
the system, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Right, right, and and you know, and and again.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
This is a lot I believe it's a lot like
many of the things the government did in terms of COVID,
Like they had the best intentions at heart. Yeah, the
best intentions at heart in terms of, you know, giving
people money so that they could just get by when
they're not working with everything, Like all of those are good,
are well intentioned, Yeah, but they're they're whatever your well
(17:18):
intentions are.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
There's a percentage of people that take advantage.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Of it and maybe not even took advantage of it
as much as it changes the mentality like this is.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah, I agree, and this is.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
A real thing.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Like we I've talked about this with professional athletes before.
How do you and this is kind of a little
bit even your kids, how do you create the hunger
and desire to make it when you've made it and
your kids, Like, all you want for your kids is
to be in a better school, a better house, a
(17:49):
better life than you had. On the other hand, you
want them to still have the desire for more yep,
you know, and and a passion to make their kids'
lives better when they got it. But they got it
pretty good, so you know, I mean, how many It's
actually the thing I marveled at with Steph Curry, which
is like that dude's hungry to be great even though
(18:13):
he grew up that was a pro private schools, counter
to so many of us who have frankly kind of
soft kids, and we have soft kids because their lives
are way easier than them.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I just get I agree with that. There's a great
quote which you've probably heard, other people have probably heard,
which is like hard times create strong people. Strong people
create good times. Good times create weak people. Weak people
create hard times. Yeah, and I love that. It's exactly
(18:45):
what you're saying. I think, like, like you can't, like
we need to teach resiliency, you know, we need to
embrace hardships, because the fact is life is difficult. It's hard,
and the goal should not be happiness. The goal should
be joy, The goal should be community. That you'll get
(19:07):
happiness as a result of these things. But you know,
Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's partner, has a great saying is
if you want to be happy in life, lower your expectations.
And on one end, I completely agree with that, like
lower your expectations on life, like don't expect anything from life,
you know, So I like, I like this tension between
having high expectations for yourself and your friends and your
(19:30):
community and your family, but at the end of the day,
have low expectations in terms of what you should expect
back from life, and I think that's a good way
to live because then you're not sitting there expecting things
from people. It's like, oh, I did this, I expect that.
That's not a healthy way to Let's not that's not
the right mindset. The right mindset is to be grateful.
It's to to to try to have a positive attitude,
(19:54):
to do the right thing. You know, when no one's watching,
is very important. People with kindness, no matter where they come,
for how they look like, just you treat people well,
that's like very important to us. But yeah, I think
it's just very interesting how COVID has upended many dimensions
(20:14):
of life and culture. Or maybe it's actually revealed things
in some ways. So I'm not so sure, but what
I will say is that incentives matter. We were very
fortunate because our team members were absolutely amazing and supported
us as much as possible through the process. It was
hard for them, it was hard for us, but you know,
(20:35):
we worked through it together. So we were lucky in
that respect. But resiliency.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
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Speaker 2 (20:53):
It's like, you don't want people to be bullied and humiliated.
On the other hand, you do wanted them to be pushed.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
And and and sometimes obviously less it's short of bullying,
short of humiliating amid how do you what motivates people?
Speaker 3 (21:13):
Right?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Well, you know, can you only motivate through positive affirmation?
Somewhat that helps, but sometimes, you know, sometimes being picked
last in the playground or you know, not getting a
participation trophy, sometimes that's a real thing that motivates.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, how do you deal with that with kids? So
if you see a young one who didn't win, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
I'm not great at it because I'm.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
More old school.
Speaker 3 (21:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
So I run a basketball program, and what I try
and do is I try and my whole idea is
to teach the why. You know, how I teach basketball.
It's the why, not the what, and how. I teach
how we how we should feel about things. It's the
why not the what. And what I mean by that
is like, hey, why do we win or why do
(22:04):
we lose? And if it's the well, we just didn't
make shots. Generally, that's not the case. But if it is,
it's like, Okay, well why did we make shots? Did
we not take good shots? Have we not been working enough?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
You know?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Are the guys that are taking the shots not the
right guys because they haven't they haven't worked hard enough.
You know, you shouldn't feel bad if you miss shots
when you.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Have them in practice.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Just can't because you're asking something of your body, which
is nearly a possible. You know, Steph Curry is the
greatest shoutar we've ever seen. He doesn't mean make half
his shots. Yeah, so uh, but if you're allowed to
be upset, if you know you practice these shots, you
usually make these shots, and you just work, they're in
and out.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
You're just unlucky. I try and teach the why why
do we win?
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Why we lose? What can we take from this experience?
What we got to do to get better? But we
got to be what it looks like, you know, and
and trying to do long a And I can do
that because I'm not doing I'm not running a program
for money.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
You know, it's a money loser for me because the
time spend.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
And I can do it because you know, I've tried
to surround myself with kids and parents who are my
kind of people. Yeah, but it's not easy, but I
think it's to me in sports is teaching the why.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It's hard.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
I think you always tell me, Like at a young age,
he said, I want to show you the good, the bad,
and the ugly. I don't want to lie to you.
And he said, wherever you go, build a church, but
know that there's good, bad and ugly. Be exposed to
all of it at a young age, because this is
real life and there's always going to be good, bad
and ugly. But again, build a church wherever you go.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I love them. What what does he think of the company?
Speaker 3 (23:56):
I mean, he's very proud of what we've built. And
he has maybe a thousand customers phone numbers. They text him,
they talk to him, They love him because my dad
just made friends with everybody. If you walked into the
store and he saw you sitting there on your laptop,
and he saw someone sit next to you with their laptop,
(24:16):
he walk up to you and say, why are you
guys sitting like a plant. You're sitting three feet away
from each other. You haven't even introduced yourself. What kind
of what is this? Hi, what's your name? What, he'd
introduced people, he'd connect people. You know, that's just kind
of just kind of his thing. He loved, he loved,
he loves people, and so he you know, he's he's
(24:40):
loved by the employees, he's loved by customers, and he's
very proud of what we built and it's very important
for him to make sure we keep going in the
right way, we don't forget where we came from.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
What is what's the ceiling for the couple?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Well, I think it's just about I like this idea
of like getting better and getting bigger. It's good to
keep getting better and sometimes to get better, just don't
do stupid stuff. There's another great quote by Charlie Munger.
I'm a fan of this guy anyways. He says avoiding
stupidity is more important than seeking brilliance. So he had
(25:19):
this great story where he was in wartime. His job
was they didn't have the technology back then. His job
was to monitor the skies because there was all the
pilots and planes flying around and weather could kill them.
So his job was to make sure the pilots who
were flying did not die. So he was unsure how
(25:41):
to approach the job. But what he decided to do
is he took a blank piece of paper and he
wrote down all the ways on how he can kill
the pilots in the air. So he literally wrote down
ten ways or whatever it was. Here's all the ways
I can kill the pilots. And he said, the only
thing I did was avoid those things and it worked.
(26:03):
So just avoid being stupid is actually brilliant.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
What about for you? What's that's the dream? You're You're, You're, you're, you're,
you're fifty. What does it look like?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Honestly? Like healthy family. Uh, that's thriving and happy and
having a good community around me. Phill's continue. I'm not
running the day to day anymore. I'm still on the board, chairman,
founder and all that, but we have a good team
in place managing the day to day but making sure
PHILLS reaches its fullest potential. I'm doing a lot of
(26:40):
like investing and building. So I love small businesses, and
there's a lot of small businesses out there. You know.
It's like there's that Italian deli that's been around for
twenty years. There's two or three shops and they're always packed.
They have fans not customers. And it's like, man, there's
be so many more of these wonderful Italian deli shops.
(27:03):
How can you go in and help these founders grow?
Kind of like what we did with Phils. So I
love this idea of getting to know the best small
businesses out there, out there, food, beverage, retail, brick and motor,
and just trying to figure out how to help them,
help them grow. And that can come in a variety
of ways. But that's what I've been doing. I've been
(27:24):
developing great relationships with great founders. Some of them have
all these different situations. Sometimes they want to retire, sometimes
they need help sometimes, you know. And the funny thing is,
like I grew up in Silicon Valley, right, and everybody's
in technology and entrepreneurs and they have huge ambitions and goals.
(27:45):
There's a lot of business owners out there that don't
want to grow. They just this is a lifestyle for them.
They want to keep doing their craft and that's cool
and that's great. So growth isn't always the best answer.
The best answers to enjoy what you're doing and love
what you're doing and be around good people. And I
(28:07):
think that's It's as simple as it. Like, honestly, you
know what fun it at fifty, it'd be nice to
be sitting down at a nice dinner with a glass
of wine with family. That's it. That's like, those are
the best moments, right, So how do you have more
good moments and less bad moments? You have more good
moments by having good energy, and you reduce the bad
(28:29):
moments by staying away from bad energy. So just more
good energy, less bad energy. If I like someone they
have good energy, I spend more time. If I don't
like it, I avoid. So avoid the stupid stuff and
try to just focus on the good stuff. But keep
your expectations tempered, because you know, it's like when there's
(28:49):
a vacation coming up in a month, everyone's looking forward
to it is excited. It's like, it's okay to not
have something to look forward to. Be okay with that.
And I think that's when you have more joy in
your license.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Hey man, you've been incredibly generous from your time. It's
a remarkable story you too.
Speaker 3 (29:07):
This has been fun. Why don't we get to play
ball whenever?
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Whenever we'll play basketball. We can play pick a ball.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Oh no, basketball, I want to play basketball with you.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Let's all right, we're gonna play basketball. I'm gonna set it.
I'll text you. I'll set it up.
Speaker 3 (29:19):
Text me one day. I would love that.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Okay, I've gotten back to where I'm playing a couple
of times times a week.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
I want to see this, uh kind of awkward. Awkward.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
But I'm a little bit better now, I'm a little
bit more.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
But I want to.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
But it's effective. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter as
long as it goes in. Yeah, exactly, as long as
it goes nobody nobody cares. As long as it goes in,
and and then the and then the big thing is
is adults, we don't get hurt. Yeah, we don't get
hurt and have a couple and have a couple of coffee.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
That sounds amazing, Jacob, thanks so much, man.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Of course, all right, Jacob was awesome with this time.
That was I learned so much.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
And of course it makes you want to go get
a cup of coffee when you're just thinking about it,
especially with his love and passion for what he did,
plus love the idea of his dad knowing everyone's name,
everyone's story and telling them to not sit at the
same table with somebody else with the laptop and instead
of introduce themselves, it's just successful. People are successful for
(30:19):
a recent winners win as coaches like to say, thanks
so much for listening and Rand on the Doug gotlib
shows daily three to five Eastern called two Pacific. You
could listen on the iHeartRadio Act as well. I'm Doug Gotlieb.
This is all ball
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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