Doug is joined by Tarleton State Acting Head Coach Joseph Jones to discuss thriving after taking over after Head Coach Billy Gillespie (medical leave) 4 games into the season, his reaction to being named WAC Coach of the Year, what he learned in his 13-year overseas pro career, and what’s next on his journey, and what his success this year means for his future.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Andy, and welcome in. I'm Doug Gollie. This is all
fall and now that we're into March, right, there's lots
of conversations about all the stupid shit we always talk about, right,
who's in, who's out, who's on the bubble, what coach
is getting fired. We even did that for a podcast
ourselves right where we with Jeff Goodman we talked about
(00:27):
coaching jobs and and and who bet might moving. I
will tell you that at the point of this, uh
this podcast on Monday, March eleventh, when we recorded, when
we dropped it, Porter Mosure. There's lots of internet rumors
that he'll be the coaching to Paul. I've been told
unequivocally that's not gonna happen, So take it for what
(00:53):
it's worth. I've just been told by it from him
from a friend of his that I know listens to
the pod, that that had happened. It is interesting, though,
because Porter had such success loyal in Chicago and he
hasn't had no success in Oklahoma, but last year was
not very good. This year they're going to limp their
way into the NCAA tournament and we'll see, you know.
(01:14):
But he did turn that thing around, but it's not
to the level that it was when Lon Krueger was
there and they went to a five four. Oklahoma is
a job that a lot of people have been successful at,
you know, Billy Tubbs, Calvin Sampson, at John McCleod, even
Jeff Caple though it didn't end well. Remember they were
the number one seed when he had Blake Griffin. They've
(01:36):
they've all had success there and he's yet to achieve
that that peak of success at OU and they're going
the SEC which I don't just may not fit with
how he wants to coach, but I don't think DePaul is.
They may think of themselves as hey, we could become
Creighton where he played, and I'm sure that's ultimately his
dream job. And part of this is that dream is
not coming to Fruition because you know, Greg McDermott resigned.
(02:00):
But I just I've been told that De Paul's not
happening for him, So we'll see. But a guy who
could get a head coaching job is Joseph Jones. Joe Jones.
Now if you remember that name, you're like, how do
I know him from? I know him from? And the
answer is I played at A and M, Like, oh, yeah,
(02:22):
that's right, he did play at A and M. Yeah.
I mean, think about this that they have the longest
winning streak in their Division One history, which is short, right,
at ten games. They have their most wins in conference
history since joined the Whack sixteen wins, most wins since
they've gone to Division One at twenty three in counting.
(02:43):
Now they can't go to the NCAA tournament because the
four year probationary period, which is dumb, is really dumb.
But under Billy Clyde, Billy Gillespie, who of course has
taken a leave of absence from Charlton State in games
decided by seven points or less, they were ten and
seventeen under Billy Clyde. Under Joe Jones, who of course
(03:07):
again remembers the interim coach, and Billy's supposed to come
back next year and just got a contract extension, they're
ten and three this year, right, and they had basically
a completely new roster and twenty three wins is the
most for any interim coach this season, any intercim coach
in the last five seasons. But they won close games
(03:30):
and by the way, in the Ken Palm ratings. They're
number one in luck. I don't know how that's but
it's good to be lucky. It's going to be good.
It's good to be Joe Jones, who's the interm head coach.
And then we have an announcement that we'll get to
in the middle of this conversation. So let's do this. Okay,
the season is starting with practice, right. Did you have
(03:55):
any idea that Billy Clyde had any medical issue taking
place at all?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
No? I didn't. I didn't have any any any idea.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So, uh, you guys are in California when he took
a lead, correct.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, we was getting ready to head to California.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Oh, you getting ready to at So how'd you find out?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Oh? He just told us. Man, he did everything up until,
you know, until we got ready to get on the
plane the next morning. Uh, we had practice. Rode on
on the bus with us. We have early flights. We
have to drive up there the night before to get
ready to you know, to kind of be there.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So where where where is Charleton talking to?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
An hour and a half east of Dallas, my fault,
west of Dallas, West of Dallas, head towards Abilene, Extra
off go down two uh to eighty one straight shot
into Stephenville, Texas.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
How big a town is Stephenville?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I really don't know. It got a four A school
in here? Yeah I know that.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So so wait but he did he when did he
tell you? You guys?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Night? He told us the night before we got ready
to leave, uh next morning?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And how did he tell you were in charge of
the A D? Like? How did that all come to me?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah? He said, he said, I'm you know, I'm gonna
leave it over to you. Just make sure you do it,
do the best job you possibly can. You know, you
gotta be fine.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Then like maybe thirty minutes an hour later, A D
calls calls me and says, uh, you know right now,
you gotta you got you gotta, you gotta take over.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Okay, so what who? Who did you call immediately for
like advice? Like who's you pick up the phone? You like?
He calls people like, man, you I can believe this ship,
I'm like running this program. Who'd you call? I didn't.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I really didn't call anybody. I made a phone call
when I landed in California, I called, Uh, I didn't
call anyone. People start reaching out to me, actually, you know,
because that's when they it's when it came out in
the in the news that he was taking them, you know,
a medical leave, and my phone started blowing up and
they was like, so, who's coaching them? I said, I
(06:04):
am until until until he gets back.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Did you know he wouldn't be back?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
No, I did not know. I did not.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Did you consult with him in terms of your decisions
you were making with what you're doing with the team.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Uh no, he coach comes in, he gives some input.
But when it came down to practice and you know,
game time stuff, that was that was all me and
and and my assistance.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So you land in California again and like two nights
before you were an assistant coach. Now you're the head coach. Okay,
so you got to make what was that like standing
on the sideline at the so Cal Classic as now
the head coach?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It was say, a little bit different because we used
to sitting on the sideline for the last three years
just sitting down. You don't get to stand up there much,
you know. I make it a point to stand up
a little bit more than then normal. So that really
only a difference. Then it's just man you get to make.
You just make decisions. You know, you can always have
(07:07):
an input, give your opinion or advice the coach, but
it comes down when you stand up. It comes down
to decisions you make. So that's sounding a difference.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, it's a It is a big difference. So those
eighteen inches, that's a that's a that's a big move.
So you like, you played for Clyde in college, right,
and then and then you played fourteen years overseas hoops
thirteen years, thirteen years. So here's an honest thing. I
feel like when you first start becoming a head coach,
(07:40):
like like you assistant too for a minute. When you
first start coaching, a lot of times you are the
guy who maybe had the most effect on you. It's
not always what I mean is like when you start coaching,
I don't think I'm Eddy Sutton, right, But there's coaches
along your path that you learn from, you kind of emulate,
(08:01):
and especially early on before you developed kind of your
own voice, your voice is similar to theirs. When you
first started this year, who'd you think that you had
played for that you were most similar to?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I don't know, I don't know. It's a tough one.
You know, I've had some some pretty good coaches, you know,
but being around coach for the last three years, you know,
I think my voice kind of you know, leaning more
towards his. You know. Uh he coached three years in
college and I was assistant here for three years before
you know, before he took the medical lead. And but
you know, just trying. I'm not saying I'm the smartest
(08:37):
guy in the world, but I just try to take,
you know, different stuff from different coaches because a lot
of I've played for a lot of good coaches and
they have always so.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So so give me, give me somebody played for and
give me somebody who take take from them.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You know. Coach Coach Gillespie, you know, he he's a
big influence, you know, I had. I had a coach
in Puerto Rico, call those Gunzales. You know, even though
he was like one or two years older than me,
he still was a pretty good coach.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
You know, what what what about what what about me?
Carlos Gonzalez a really good coach.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Just he you know, he always kept it like, kept
it fun, you know, but was serious a lot of
times too. We were very serious, you know. He made
sure we practiced hard, but you know, once we got
our work done, we had we had a lot of
fun as well. So he just he just was that coach,
a real players coach. You can always get along with him.
(09:30):
You know, never never a situation where it was arguments,
so any kind of you know, any kind of bad
blood within the team. So that I took that up.
I took that a lot. You know, we enjoy playing
for him.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I think that's I think it's an important thing. It's
it's really interesting, you know. I'll give you a couple
of guys I played. So I played for My high
school coach was Andy Ground. He was my second high
school coach. Andy grad played, Uh, I played a little
with JV. I played JV and varsity. My freshman year,
he was my JV coach. He became the varsity had coached,
and he since has gone on to win four straight
(10:04):
four state junior college titles. He's actually kind of retired,
but helping out of high school and a lot of
the way I talk when I coach is him. But
also he had a belief that like every out of
bounds play, he wanted to score on right, you want
to run to score, and he also was somebody who
(10:26):
I felt like would score on the initial action and
then also score on a secondary action. And I think
most coaches try and do one or the other. And
so again it's a thought process of mind. Is like,
especially with young kids, I try and do you score
in the first action, and with older groups you try
and do both. But the other part to it that
(10:48):
I didn't know I picked up from him, and it
sounds like you picked up in Puerto Rico. Is I
kind of feel like the perfect he said players coach
is guys do want discipline, they do want to be coached.
They just don't want to carry over when practice or
the game is over correct correct right, Like that's a
(11:10):
real thing, Like they won't have to You got to
be around each other a lot. And if you're constantly
talking about turnovers or mister Simon's like, they're not gonna
want to.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Be around you, to be around you, no, no, no.
And that's how it was. You know, I had a good,
good relationship with other coaches, but he was the main
one that that you know, as soon as practice o
with Jojoe, what you what you're trying to do? Trying
to get something to eat? Let's go get something to eat.
You know, we we we used to meet up, watch
watch watch batch different you know, playoff games and stuff,
(11:38):
watch boxing fights, and it was always a cool gutta
be around. But I know once we got on the court,
you know, that was he was. He was the coach
when I was a player. You know, I respected him
a lot, and you know he made ship may just
wanted to win. We both had the same come and
go that was the win.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So one of the things that assistant coaches do all
the time is they always think, when I get my
own team, I'm gonna do this. What was the biggest
adjustment you made as you started to get comfortable in
being the interneat coach.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Just probably just my you know, just being patient with
the players. You know, as as as an assistant coach,
I think your your your job is to always be
on them for us, trying to have them, you know,
do things a little bit quicker so you can help
the coach out, you know, because the coach got to
think about other things. So you just want the players
to be Hey man, you got to pick it up,
(12:33):
you got to go. You got to make decisions. That's
that's decision faster, because that's what we see the coach
got is trying to worry about how to run the team,
how to how to manage the game. Just you need
to do this a little bit quicker. So I think
being patient, you know, and just letting the players try
to understand, you know, the game, but for for them,
you know. My main goal was not to try to
(12:54):
change up a lot of any a lot of things
because I didn't know if coach was coming back or
when he was coming back, you know, so I didn't
want to. I didn't want to make at all these
changes to something that you know, I'm used to far
as a uh mostly playing professional ball. So I wanted
to make sure I kept its simple, you know. I
plug in a couple of different things every once while
(13:15):
from different plays, you know, in certain situations that we
might do just you know, maybe a ball screening coverage,
something like that. Just trying to mix up a game.
And that's that's that's the only thing I really done.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I feel like those of us when we get to
play overseas, there's just so many different ways in which
they do things right. And again, you don't want to
take all of them, but you take some of them,
And it's great because you it's very different from how
college has traditionally been coached, right, Like I do feel
(13:47):
like I get it end of the day. It's about
you know, ball street at the topic key. But it
does feel like guys that have coached in college, they
keep doing the same things over and over again because
that's how we were coached in college, whereas the guys
that extended periods of time overseas you got a little
bit different player to it. What what what did you
glean most from all your days playing professionally that you
(14:08):
like to bring to the college game.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Just you know, the the most used set that I
think they're using collage now could possibly the horn set. Yes,
you can get so much out of it. So you know,
we coach had a horn set in there, but it
really wasn't you know, just the regular you know, boss
spring roll and pop up of guy pop. So you know,
(14:32):
I put a couple of different variations of it, and
it just from playing and you know we've used it
a lot this year. You know, I want to use ice,
but I don't just I don't think I don't think
the guys understand how to play that boss screen defense.
So but just you know, trying to be a little
bit more up up tempo with things, you know, getting
(14:55):
a little bit more freedom. That's how that's that's the
game I'm used to. You know.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Interesting, I feel like I feel like international rules and
you tell them what you think. If you think differently,
is cool. I love the international rules, I really do.
I don't like the way the international game is officiated,
you know. I want to make sure people understand that.
I think the officiating is terrible, right, the interpretation of
traveling I don't get like. There's lots of things, but
(15:20):
the international rules, you know, like no bask interference, that's great.
I mean your offensive rebound you go get a tip
dug with the ball in the rim. Awesome, awesome, or
you could smack it off with on the rim. I
like that. The reset, the twenty four seconds o'clock, the quarters,
the lack of timeouts you can't call it live ball timeout.
Like all of those things I really like and I
(15:42):
think it creates a better flow to the game that
we that we have. What about your use of timeouts.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm not a time
I got I'm not a time out got I call them,
but you know, I just people always say, may you
got to seek out all your time outs. Yeah, I know,
you know, I call him when I have to just
try to, you know, change up the game. But you know,
my guy's been doing a good good job this year
of uh you know, just staying locked in the game,
(16:12):
and they I haven't had to call them. I haven't
haven't had to call you know, I don't want to
draw up anything that just this is ravaging play because
I don't That's not who I am. Uh. We practice
everything that we do, you know, so you know, the
guys are always prepared. You know. I was talking to
a coach not too long ago. He's like, man, you
got to have this play ready, this play ready. I said,
(16:34):
I really can't just sit here and tell you I
have a go to play. I have to see how
the game is been progressing, what they have been doing,
what I think they might do, and I have plays
ready for that, you know, and that we guys have
been running this whole season. So you know that that's
that's how I've been playing for the past thirteen years.
(16:54):
We didn't have a lot of sets, but you know,
we had plays and they you know, could go against
any any style of defense.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
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Speaker 1 (17:13):
How's the staff been to you been good.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Been good man. The guys been working hard. Man, It's
been fun. They've We've been having a lot of fun.
We've been in jaring, being around each other. You know,
it's never any problems when we traveling, never any problems
when we're in the office. Man, it's been it's been
really fun.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
What about the players. Was there a moment that you
feel like it became your team?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I don't know, God to understand there's been a different
The only thing changed is I've became acting head coach.
That's on thing changed. I still treated the kids the
same way. I still went to study Hall with them
every night. We really while when we had study Hall,
I still ran study Hall. I was still in there
with them every night. So that dynamic and that situation
(18:02):
never changed. I've been there with them just like if
I was assistant coach the whole time. You know, only thing,
you know, I used to go to waits a lot
in the morning, but now, you know, I let guys
take that every once in a while.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Wait wait, she still did the study all but you
don't do the weights.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, ways, I can't. I did it too long and
I'm like, let me just sleep in just a little bit.
But I still I still do the study hall every night,
you know. So I'm still in there with the kids,
listening to everything they going through, you know, helping them
out with anything that they you know, need help on.
So yeah, I'm still doing the study hall.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Okay, how about this the last two years, where did
you sit on the bus?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I said, right at the end of the coaches, right
before the players.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Right right, you're the you're the right, You're still in
the same place, same place, and you didn't do head
coaches always front seat, right Yeah. Yeah, I think the
best part of being the head coach is you never
can be late to the.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Bus, right right, right? That is that is the best.
That's the best. You know. I'll make it a point,
you know, to you know, just make sure the guys
are owned before I come out. I'm like, you know,
I told her, you know, told a couple of coaches.
You know, just let me get give me your heads
up if anybody late, you know, we're going to always
set the time to where we are on time. You know,
(19:26):
we'll leave early. But you know, because if we say
the bus leave it at three forty five, we had
the guys loading up by three thirty. So if I
get okay, everybody in the bus at three thirty, we
out by three, you know, by three thirty five. So
I'm right there ready to go, you know, and we
get some time there. I'm not the guy if we
leave it three forty five. I'm coming down at three
(19:47):
forty five. Now, let's get to the gym. Let's get
set it in.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You know, I get it, But it does, it does.
Being a head coach does allow you to occasionally you
got to take a leak, You forget something in the room.
You don't have to worry about it. It ain't leave without me.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, I don't want to be that guy. I don't
want to be that guy, you know. And I don't know.
I was talking to I was talking to somebody just
the other day and they was like, man, so if
you ever become a head coach, what you're gonna do?
I said, I go back and forth with its far
as should I keep going to study hall with the kids.
It's not for me. I really enjoy, you know, being
(20:22):
in study hall. We do what we do, our work,
the guys who they work. Then for the last ten
fifteen minutes, man, I try to talk to them with life,
no matter what it is, you know, try to give
them some of my experiences, so help them grow up,
you know. So they have somebody that can probably talk to.
And it's been good. It's been good, all right, give
me the.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Okay, So they asked you, a coach, give me the
craziest overseas story. You got. Give me one.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Craziest old seed story. I keep it PG, I keep
it PG. Okay, PG right now. So the crazy old
seed story for me was a situation that me and
j pre Prince was in when we were playing basketball
in Iran and Trump had the he did the band
for the Muslim countries. We was just flying from Iran
(21:12):
to go to Dubai to to renew our visas and
we're supposed to be doing that for baby two to
three days. You know. He put the band on soon
as we touched down Dubai phone it started blowing up,
blowing up, blowing up, you know, Iran can't Trump said
Muslim concert. Muslim coms can come to America. Iran does
the same thing and not sept An Americans. So it
(21:34):
a two day, three day trip turned to a five
day trip and everybody's calling, what you're gonna do, What's
going to happen? Like, what's going on? And we was like,
I have no idea. I just know I brought one
bag to Dubai and all the rest of my stuff
is in Iran. I don't know if I'm going to
ever get to go back to get it or what.
So we ended up staying there five days. Uh. The
(21:57):
president of our team, he ended up calling the Secretary
defense because that was you know, they was teammates on
soccer team back in the day and we were the
only two Americans they were allowed to get a visa
to get back into our ring.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
What was it like playing that ring?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
It was actually it was okay, it was okay. It's
it's different. You know, none of the American stuff worked,
no credit card, no cell phone, nothing, a lot of traffic.
But people are cool, but you know you don't have that.
That was the food food really good. Food is really good.
You know, just don't have no freedom. That's it. You
don't have you don't have that much that freedom. We
(22:33):
had to have a driver and then when we go somewhere,
the driver had to stay with us because you know,
you never know what can happen to you over there.
You say one wrong to me, the government can come, come,
come find you, and they come scoop you up.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
That's crazy. Uh, it's amazing. So my my Dubai story
was I was playing this is well before you It's
two thousand and one, us playing in Russia, and we
had had a break and the team went to train
in Dubai and this is Dubai wasn't as evolved as
it is now. And because I'm one Jewish and two
(23:09):
you know, I had been to Israel a bunch. There's
a bunch of Hebrew writing on my passport and they're like, yo,
they will not let you into the country. Yeah, will
not let you into the country. So so I had
I literally had to stay in perm Russia and one
of like the youth team coach worked me out twice
(23:30):
a day every day like crazy shit running. They I
used to do this thing where they do like you
must have made ten three pointers all right, like nobody
feeding you. You got to go and get it, and
they like time you to see how pass and then
you get a simple water and you go do it again,
and do it again, do it again, and you like
get an hour workout where you're feeding yourself and going
(23:52):
full court and you got to get your own missus.
I'm like, this is crazy. Meanwhile, you know they came
back and those dudes had pictures they did camel rd
hanging out and they practiced hard whatever, but they chilled.
I was like, man, because I had Hebrew on my passport.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
No, I had to get it. I had to get
a whole new passport before I went to Iran because
I played in Israel two years, so I had to
get a whole new passport. In my agent like you
not getting in with that passport. We got to got
to get a new passport.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I'm like, where who did you play for in Israel?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
First year, I was in for the lead good ball
up in the north. Yeah. In the second year we
won championship out with Ruce Line.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
That was pretty cool, right, that was the the you know,
they opened a new arena now, which is really nice.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So when I that year that I played for him.
They were just opening up that arena. That the last
thing that they had. It wasn't even fully completed yet
we played in it. Still had still doing construction and
while we're playing in it. So and we won the
championship that year in it. So yeah, I had, I
got had some I guess stories about Israel. I loved
(24:57):
it over there and jored it.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Give me, give me one PG one.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
PG one probably had to be the time I thought
I thought I was going to jail because I'm you know,
we had played, we had played in uh in Tel Aviv.
I can't remember who we played against. I go back home,
I go back to Jerusalem and then you know, me
and my guys we come. We come back like hey man,
let's go out, you know, let's have a little fun.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
We come so the team, the team had a bus
and you went all the way back to Jerusalem.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, which is like.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
On a bus, it's like an hour.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Then you turn around like, yeah, now let's go out
and tell tell nothing nothing happens in Jerusalem.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, nothing nothing. So we go back to Tel Aviv
to go out and like it's a heel that you know,
that's coming from going to lead in Tel Aviv and
we rolled next thing. I know, cops, I'm like, I've
had I've been playing in Europe everywhere for a long time.
Cops do not have radar detective radar guns and like, yeah,
(25:55):
you're doing this and doing this and that, and I'm like,
we're just trying to go, you know, we to go
out a little bit. Tell them what team we played for,
and at that point in time, we were doing pretty good.
So they like, well, you know, if you if we
see this car again coming back through in a couple
of hours, whatever, we're going to stop you. So you
gotta make you gotta figure you got to figure it out.
(26:17):
So man, I went to Tel Aviv, we went out,
I had a good time. And one of my other boys,
he was playing for a team, he was playing for
Rishon Jeremy Smith went to Georgia table you spend at
his highse I'm like, nah, I ain't drinking that drive
back because i know for sure they gonna take it.
They're taking the scene.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
So yeah, the best part about playing Israel is when
I was there, we had a guy Jesse Salters, was
like an old head play South Florida, and yeah, I
never forget. He got Thanksgiving party and you know, you
got anywhere from two to four or five Americans on
the first division teams. Second division teams has a couple,
(26:55):
Third division teams have a couple. So we had like
Dick the Americans at a Thanksgiving party, and you just
you felt like you're at home, whereas everywhere else you
go you're really really isolated.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Really isolated, you know, and that was That's a good thing,
but also a bad thing because then you you know, guys, yo,
this you might know this guy. He might have a
beef with one of your other boys because they played
in the game, know, the different country. So now like, okay,
I see you a man, like what's going on? You know,
and it's always but it was fun over there because
(27:28):
you know, I got to meet be with guys that
you know, that I haven't met seen in a long
time since maybe high school, like Germans. He won of
them guys. We played against each other in high school,
you know. Then he went to Georgia Tech and went
to a and m I ain't seen him in a while,
but we was always close, you know, when we went
to camps and stuff. Played each other in high school.
So just you know, be able to kick you to
him for a whole pretty much a year. You know,
(27:50):
it was fun. It was real fun.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, it's an amazing part of the experience. The best
teammate you had overseas was.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Who probably be John's stepherson. We played together in Spain,
two years in Iceland. He from Iceland, though he played
he got he paid for the Mavericks a couple of
years too. So, uh, you know, he's been around, he'd
been around. He was older, he was old. He was
old head when I when I played with him, but
(28:18):
he was you know, still very good, very effective.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
What what what made him so such a good teammate?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
He just you know, I was on a black guy
on the team and he was you know, he just
he played with a bunch of guys like he he
played with uh you know, he played with David Hawkins.
You know, he was just the older guy, been around,
so he knew he understood what was going, you know,
he understood on the court and out the court. So
that's what we That's what that's how we connected a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
What what is that? What is that like? Because like
again it's it's really interesting because in the States, you know,
like I mean again, I don't know. Your experience obviously
is a different place, feels like a really white campus.
But you you, but you do. But you have you know,
you got all the sports teams whatever, you got people,
and you get your teammates. So I'm sure you experienced
(29:10):
some of an m but it's not just the best,
like you're literally the first black person they've ever seen
in life. Yeah, yeah, what's that experience like?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
For me? It was cool. I come from a small town,
so it's not that many people, not many black people
in our town. Everybody's king each other as black most
for the most part. But once you go over there,
you're you know a lot of people start thinking you're African,
you know, so that that's the only difference depending on
what country you go to. You know, I played in
France for three years, prayed in Spain for three years.
(29:41):
You know, I paid in Turkey for one you know, Turkey,
when they see you, you know, black, they think you
you know you you you're African and your Muslim. So
you get a lot of that. But it's just when you.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Know, man, I like I like bacon, I like Va.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I can't give it up. So you know that's that's
you know, that's what you tell them. But you know
they friendly very friendly.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Question but it's still but it's still it's still key,
you know, like like I'm a human being. Like you know,
they're like, but look at you as if you're there's
something out of a out of a out of a
dream run of a movie.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
You because you're black, you're American. You know, they think
you from New York most time. I'm not from New York.
I don't New York is a way a long way
from Texas. You know, I want to go to New York.
I'm not from New York. You can come to Texas,
come to Houston. Yeah, we'll show you good time down
there too. Uh.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
The weirdest jim you ever played in.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
You know, the you know, most of the gym in Israel.
I got the one side like it's high school.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, yes, so I played in one. I played in
one in Russia and mineral and it's called mineral Voda
like translates the mineral water. It's in the South and
they had an American dude who played there forever I
forget his name, old head whatever. He made a bunch
of money and it was the ugliest town ever. And
(31:09):
we go to this gym and it's got a wall
like it felt like a foot from the sidelines, and
then like on the other side there was a couple
of rows of stands, and then in the baseline there
was like probably ten rows of stands, and then they
had like a track balcony that went on the top
and that was like five deep in people standing to
(31:30):
watch the game. And I was like, this shit looks
dangerous as hell. But I'm thinking to myself, like we
had the best team in Rush of the year. I
was there, and we had expensive team and we're playing
in some yanky ass at gim. You're like, damn.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
All right, No, I went and paid one month in
Dominic Republic and going to the gym and you look
up like that's outside, that's it goes a wall, a
big gap, big space, being a roof, you birds flying through,
(32:05):
you know, using the rest of them on the court.
I'm like, what where are we at? But when I
tell you, it was rocking, It was rocking in there.
We sweating this so hot, so humid, but man, the
crowd is into it. Every time you we score, crowd
go crazy. They scored they going crazy. That's probably the
(32:26):
craziest gym I ever you know, played in right there.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
You know, it's interesting. So for people who don't know
and come, I'm wrong, the dr Puerto Rico and Venezuela,
those are like they're like spring pro leagues, right right,
and so and so most dudes do that to a
lot of guys, were guys that were like G League
guys or overseas guys that get cut. It's just a
(32:52):
good way to make quick buck. Well, you can go
Philippines the same way. Right, we can go there. You
don't to stay long. And so, uh, did you play
in Venezuela too.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Or just the pr on D.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
But it's but it's also like you got to produce
right away or they get rid of you too.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And yeah, yeah, no, that's what happened when I first
time went to Puerto Rico. I went down and replaced
a guy in the in the playoffs first round the playoffs.
In the first game was at home, and I'm watching
the first round, the first game of the series, and
I replaced him the next for the next game. I'm
seeing him play, and I'm like, this is a cold word,
(33:33):
y'all bring me in to replace this guy, and I'm
watching the game and he actually paid well, they got
him up out of there the next day. So I'm like,
who am I to say what you can and can't do?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
But just as when you take their apartment, that's here
and ship.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, well, I'm saying, go in there.
You know, they put me in the same apartment. He's
left some things. I'm like, man, I said, should I
mail him back to him? Or what? You know? Did
y'all clean this place first before y'all put me in here?
That's the first that's the first question you asked you.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I don't know, definitely a solid question. Yeah, Like, it's
really interesting how many people want to push the college
thing to become a professional thing. And those are a
lot of people that have never played professional basketball.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Oh no, no, no, they don't. They don't understand the
ruthless business that it is professional basketball. And it really is.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Uh okay, So let me be the first to congratulate
you because at the time of this recording, in five minutes,
it can be announced you're the whack coach of the year. Wow,
that's pretty freaking awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It is.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I mean think about that. From from finding out the
night before you're going on a trip to California to
now all of a sudden you're named the whack coach
the Year. What's that like for you?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Really can't explain it. I'm just I'm happy because the
guy and they played, they busted off for me this year,
you know, and I appreciate them for doing that. But
you know, it's just something I never I didn't think
that would happened to me. You don't think you don't
think about culture of the Year. The only thing you
worry about it is thinking about trying to win championships
(35:14):
and to have to be awarded that, man, it means
I did something good and you know, and somebody, somebody,
somebody had to vote. So I'm I'm happy for that.
I'm ecstatic.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
You are steen as an incredible defensive mind defensive coach. Right.
Part of it is obviously yours of playing, and part
of it is what you focused on since since coach.
If somebody would ask you, like, ay, man, like, what's
what's the secret? What what is your What are your
little things that you like to implement that you harp
(35:47):
on that are important on a daily base because we
always talk about fundamentals offensively, you know when you talking
about basketball like man, every day you gotta work on
passing and cutting and movement and the fundamentals. What are
those fundamental things defensively which have allowed you to be
widely regarded as an outstanding defensive coach?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Just being a staying active, staying active, you ain't take
any places off. And what I like to you know
what I harp on to these guys. These kids don't
like to play defense these days, and that's just part
of it. That is part of basketball now generation, this
generation doesn't like to play defense. So I tell him,
if you don't want to play defense, don't let you
(36:26):
guys catch the ball. Then you'll never have to play defense.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I love that I'd actually told it. I've actually used
that to my sons. My son is little in eighth grade.
He hadn't grown yet, right, so he's like, Dad, I
keeps is showing me. He'show me he's too big for me.
I was like, hey, here's the deal, buddy. If he
doesn't catch it, he can't I just show you.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Right, And I learned the hallway. You know. I pride
myself on defense, and people say, oh, you don't pay
no defense. I learned real quick. We're playing in the
program when I was in college in Houston and were
playing against with Sean Lewis. This is at the time
when with charlottuis at Seattle. You know, so he's good,
you know, and it's in Houston, so they're gonna take
care of him as well. After about two or three
(37:11):
Ice holds at the top of the key, I'm like,
hold on, man, I own him. I don't care where
he had in the court. He's not catching the ball.
You know, they're not gonna let your guard and where
you want to guard him. And he's he's a he's
he's a pretty good basketball player. So it ain't got
the way I wanted to work out every time. So
let me just eliminate the whole deal and don't let
(37:32):
him catch it all.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
When you when you sub, do you say something like
you pull a guy sub of him? Do you say
a guy do you say something to them? You know
the assistants handled you. Let him like walk on by
and just feel your energy, like what's your what are
you like? When you take guys in it out?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
It depends on the situation, and it depends on the guy.
I got it. I got a great relationship with all
the kids, but you know some you know, I kind
of hold him a little bit higher than than others.
So you know, once you but you know, you bring
him off and he's not doing what he's supposed to do.
You know, I tell him, like, you're probably gonna be
here a while. So either you can go down there
(38:10):
sit at the end, or you can go sit in there,
real close to the coaches, you know, and hope that
I look down there and try to put you back
in because but I say different things. But you know,
I say something to him if it's to the if
it's real bad, you know, I show my my true
colors as a player, still a player. He come off,
(38:31):
I'm not shaking your hand or nothing. Man, you're messing
up the game for us. And if I was playing
with you, I would have told Coach some of you
out a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
That's that's real right there.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Playing. I've done that a few times.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
So sure, get him, coach, Get get him the fuck out.
He's killing us him, Get him and for him, he's
gonna be me again, exactly right. Okay, So last thing,
Billy got an extension. Mm hmm, right, but you got
(39:08):
the coach of the year right, right, So how does it?
How does it work? Did you guys all get extended?
Like what what happened when when he got extended?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I think I think we I don't know, I don't
know how it goes, but I think we all got extended.
But I could be wrong. At the end of the day,
it's all who coach, you know, wants to bring back
on his coaching staff. That's what it comes down to
at the school, want to renew contracts, That's that's But
I think that since you're here already and the head
(39:36):
coach gets extended, I would think that everybody gets an extension.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
And your coaching the year, I think that you're pretty good.
But it also has to make you think. I don't
know where you thought you were in your growth curve
as a coach in terms of being ready. But you
have to feel ready now, don't you like to have
your own team?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I feel I feel ready. You know, some people might
say I'm not ready, But at the end of the day,
who knows if they're ready or not until they in
the moment. No one knows. So like I didn't never
think that, you know, you bet I would be a
pretty good basketball player. I stepped on the court. First
game happened, second game happened, third game, and so on.
(40:16):
I kept getting better, kept showing showing that I can
deserve to be on the court. You know, I think
the same thing probably goes into coaching as well, especially
a head coach. You know, it doesn't You don't know
until you really do it. And if people say that,
you know, what I did this year is a you know,
had something to do with that, I would think that, hey, it,
we would be okay, I'll be.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Well, okay. So look, I do think that coaching is different.
But I also think that in terms of preparation playing
thirteen years for all those different coaches and all those
different systems, like.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Like again, I don't want to say that everybody's ready
to coach right after they get done playing, but in
many ways that's just as if not more value for
thirteen years.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I think.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
So I think what you've done both out.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I think I think so because you know, I see
playing those playing those years, I see the game a
little bit different when at times you know and understand,
you know what's what's going on a little bit more.
You know, when I first when I got back into coach.
When I got into coaching, I started seeing a lot
of people running your euro ball screen offense. I'm like,
(41:29):
I ran that every team I played played on. I
know what's gonna happen before it even you know, before
the players developed, just because of the players that you
have on the court, and I know what's gonna I
know what what they're designated to do. You know, you can't.
You're gonna tweak it so much to make it your own.
But for the most part, it's gonna happen the same
(41:50):
thing's gonna happen. The ball is gonna be reversed from
side to side, back, cut, handoff or you know, pitch
and and ball screen, that's gonna it's gonna happen the
same way regardless. So, you know, just seeing that, I
started understanding that, you know, more of the European game
started making its way into college. So I'm like, this
is what I'm used to. I've been playing for thirteen years,
(42:11):
you know, and I've been I played a lot of minutes,
so you know, I've seen it, so I understand it.
My basketball eye is okay enough to see it and
recognize it.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Have you have you made a mistake that you owned
up to to the players.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Oh? Yeah, I have, I have, I have. You know,
it was a couple of games just I don't want
to tell him a secret to what I to my
coaching style, but you know I told him that I
felt like I should have made you know, made made
an adjustment, you know, in the game a little bit
sooner than than than I did. Maybe that would have
(42:53):
helped us, you know, win the game. And ever since then,
I've been I've been.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Look, I can't speak to every okay, but it does
feel like our generation of guys, especially guys that play,
we'll say to a team like, hey, I fucked that up.
Guys listen more when you're more honest with them and
(43:18):
you say like, hey, we all screwed up. I screwed
it up a little bit. You know. Have you noticed
that as well?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah? I know that I noticed that. I noticed that,
and and and the guys you know, they always had
they always have them back when I tell him that. Now, Jojo, man,
that was on us. You know, we could have did
this and did that better. We should have done this,
you know, we did all we didn't listen to you
when you told us this. You know. They they've always
right there, you know, and backed me with when I
when I say that to them, and I and I
(43:48):
tell them same thing. Man, We're gonna all make mistakes.
You know. We can't control everything, but we can try
to get better each and every day and when that day,
and that's what we try to do.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Did you you got you guys have comp cars and assistance.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
No, no, I got my own car.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Even as the interim head coach and now the Coach
of the year. We don't have you with a cop car. Ah.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
No, I'm still I'm still still fishing my big dog.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
What's the big dog? What's what's what's the weapon you're
driving to work?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yukondinalite, bro we got I mean no disrespect to yukondinality.
I've had I've had that myself. Wait, do you have
the okay you kind of such an suv? Yeah, but
we we coach of the year in the whack. We
need somebody, somebody in in town's got to hook you
up with a with a new ride. That's kind of right.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Never know, you never know, I'm not I'm not going
to turn it down. I know that.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
How are you in Texas and you don't have a pickup?
I just never I mean sub is kind of suv,
is kind of a Hooper's pickup. Yeah yeah, have you
owned it? Have you owned a pickup?
Speaker 2 (44:54):
No? I haven't. You know, for the because I lived
in Houston, So you know, when I was coming up
and I played, and he is Houston most time I'm
coming up, that's all the all the Hoopers had escalades
and stuff like that, so you know that's what I seen.
So I'm like, you know, at the enduring that time,
I couldn't afford to escalate, so I said, let me
get the next best thing.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
I think thought, well, uh, that's that's my new have
a new goal. A new goal is to use this
podcast to get the Whack Coach of the Year, the
twenty twenty four Whack Coach of the Year, a new
a new ride, a comp new ride too. You ain't
comeing out of pocket for it. That's got to be
part of the deal. The deal.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
It's unacceptable. And then you're like, you know, you can
sell it to the guys like, hey man, this is
not my car. This is all of our car. You
guys won this for me.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
It is great.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
I'm gonna drive it home.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Yeah, this is you need a ride? Just how let me?
You know, I think I can give you a ride.
I don't think it's against the rules give you a
ride somewhere. So yeah, now you hear about the perks
as as a player. You know all the coaches getting
vehicles and stuff and getting free food. And you know
the hook up I got is I get a couple
of free meals every once in a while. But it's
(46:04):
haven't been a call, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Give it. Give a shout out. Best place to grab
a meal in town is where.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Oh man, that's tough. It's tough. It's just spending what
you want. Ass tech us pretty good, Purple Gold pretty good.
You know, uh take us good for what Mexican food?
Speaker 1 (46:23):
But what like, what's your what's your Meskan food order?
You a torta guy? You a taco guy, you'r a
burrito guy? What do you?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
I'm I'm a I'm a uh pork guy. I like
I like, I like I like.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
In a taco in a burrito jeans.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Most time I'm just you know, on the plate with
some with some with some with some uh chero beans
and rice.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
All right, when you're back home in Houston, where's your spot?
Like every time I roll into Houston, I have to
go here.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Used to be Papa Doos, but now it's uh now
it's it's so many. That's just I just stick with Papados.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Is good. It's a chain, but it's good.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
But that's, you know, because the people don't understand. Like
everybody like soul food places, I'm gonna eat soul food.
I get sold food anytime I want. I grew up
on it. So if if anything, if I'm gonna go somewhere,
I'm gonna go home and let my mom cook for me.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Okay, So when your mom cooks for you and she
knows what you want, what do you what's your soul
food on.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
H I'm a big, I'm a big, I'm a big.
How do they got how do they food? So? Sweet? Potatoes, greens,
u any kind of meat you can be steak, turkey,
you know, not a ham guy like that, but any
kind of meat, chicken. But if she put that in
there and then some cage and cabbage and some corn bread,
(47:56):
I'm set. And then she thought but now the putting
in there and a sweet potato pie, maybe it'll become pie.
I'm all good.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
That's that sounds amazing. That sounds amazing. I'm looking for
the invite. You tell me when you're going. I've never
had Cajun cabbage though, so I don't even know what
that is, Like I've had all the rest.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, yeah, no, my mom. I don't know where she
got it from. She just cooks it and I hate it.
So I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Sounds sounds amazing. Well, you made a proud your coach
of the year. We're gonna get you a new car.
It's gonna be done. Yeah, I appreciate gonna it's gonna
be It's gonna be done. Well. I like watching as
a player. I enjoyed talking to you as a coach
even more. Thanks so much for joining metal Ball.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
He appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
All right, that's it for my conversation with the new
WHAC coach of the Year. Think about that. Doesn't actually
know if he'll be back at Charlton State next year.
Won twenty three games, is the internead coach and hasn't
been told if the contract extension for the head coach
means he gets that check extension. Nonetheless, pretty good in
your resume what he's been able to accomplish, and even
(49:04):
better than we got to know him. It'd be awesome.
Hope you enjoyed it. Remember The Doug Gottlieb Show is
daily three to five Eastern trop Too Pacific. Plus we
have a podcast hour. You can listen to it in
podcasts for But tell your friends about this one. This
is a good one thanks to Joe Jones, interead coach
at Charlton State. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball
Andy, and welcome in. I'm Doug Gollie. This is all
fall and now that we're into March, right, there's lots
of conversations about all the stupid shit we always talk about, right,
who's in, who's out, who's on the bubble, what coach
is getting fired. We even did that for a podcast
ourselves right where we with Jeff Goodman we talked about
(00:27):
coaching jobs and and and who bet might moving. I
will tell you that at the point of this, uh
this podcast on Monday, March eleventh, when we recorded, when
we dropped it, Porter Mosure. There's lots of internet rumors
that he'll be the coaching to Paul. I've been told
unequivocally that's not gonna happen, So take it for what
(00:53):
it's worth. I've just been told by it from him
from a friend of his that I know listens to
the pod, that that had happened. It is interesting, though,
because Porter had such success loyal in Chicago and he
hasn't had no success in Oklahoma, but last year was
not very good. This year they're going to limp their
way into the NCAA tournament and we'll see, you know.
(01:14):
But he did turn that thing around, but it's not
to the level that it was when Lon Krueger was
there and they went to a five four. Oklahoma is
a job that a lot of people have been successful at,
you know, Billy Tubbs, Calvin Sampson, at John McCleod, even
Jeff Caple though it didn't end well. Remember they were
the number one seed when he had Blake Griffin. They've
(01:36):
they've all had success there and he's yet to achieve
that that peak of success at OU and they're going
the SEC which I don't just may not fit with
how he wants to coach, but I don't think DePaul is.
They may think of themselves as hey, we could become
Creighton where he played, and I'm sure that's ultimately his
dream job. And part of this is that dream is
not coming to Fruition because you know, Greg McDermott resigned.
(02:00):
But I just I've been told that De Paul's not
happening for him, So we'll see. But a guy who
could get a head coaching job is Joseph Jones. Joe Jones.
Now if you remember that name, you're like, how do
I know him from? I know him from? And the
answer is I played at A and M, Like, oh, yeah,
(02:22):
that's right, he did play at A and M. Yeah.
I mean, think about this that they have the longest
winning streak in their Division One history, which is short, right,
at ten games. They have their most wins in conference
history since joined the Whack sixteen wins, most wins since
they've gone to Division One at twenty three in counting.
(02:43):
Now they can't go to the NCAA tournament because the
four year probationary period, which is dumb, is really dumb.
But under Billy Clyde, Billy Gillespie, who of course has
taken a leave of absence from Charlton State in games
decided by seven points or less, they were ten and
seventeen under Billy Clyde. Under Joe Jones, who of course
(03:07):
again remembers the interim coach, and Billy's supposed to come
back next year and just got a contract extension, they're
ten and three this year, right, and they had basically
a completely new roster and twenty three wins is the
most for any interim coach this season, any intercim coach
in the last five seasons. But they won close games
(03:30):
and by the way, in the Ken Palm ratings. They're
number one in luck. I don't know how that's but
it's good to be lucky. It's going to be good.
It's good to be Joe Jones, who's the interm head coach.
And then we have an announcement that we'll get to
in the middle of this conversation. So let's do this. Okay,
the season is starting with practice, right. Did you have
(03:55):
any idea that Billy Clyde had any medical issue taking
place at all?
Speaker 2 (04:01):
No? I didn't. I didn't have any any any idea.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So, uh, you guys are in California when he took
a lead, correct.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, we was getting ready to head to California.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Oh, you getting ready to at So how'd you find out?
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Oh? He just told us. Man, he did everything up until,
you know, until we got ready to get on the
plane the next morning. Uh, we had practice. Rode on
on the bus with us. We have early flights. We
have to drive up there the night before to get
ready to you know, to kind of be there.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
So where where where is Charleton talking to?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
An hour and a half east of Dallas, my fault,
west of Dallas, West of Dallas, head towards Abilene, Extra
off go down two uh to eighty one straight shot
into Stephenville, Texas.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
How big a town is Stephenville?
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I really don't know. It got a four A school
in here? Yeah I know that.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
So so wait but he did he when did he
tell you? You guys?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Night? He told us the night before we got ready
to leave, uh next morning?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
And how did he tell you were in charge of
the A D? Like? How did that all come to me?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Yeah? He said, he said, I'm you know, I'm gonna
leave it over to you. Just make sure you do it,
do the best job you possibly can. You know, you
gotta be fine.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Then like maybe thirty minutes an hour later, A D
calls calls me and says, uh, you know right now,
you gotta you got you gotta, you gotta take over.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Okay, so what who? Who did you call immediately for
like advice? Like who's you pick up the phone? You like?
He calls people like, man, you I can believe this ship,
I'm like running this program. Who'd you call? I didn't.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
I really didn't call anybody. I made a phone call
when I landed in California, I called, Uh, I didn't
call anyone. People start reaching out to me, actually, you know,
because that's when they it's when it came out in
the in the news that he was taking them, you know,
a medical leave, and my phone started blowing up and
they was like, so, who's coaching them? I said, I
(06:04):
am until until until he gets back.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Did you know he wouldn't be back?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
No, I did not know. I did not.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Did you consult with him in terms of your decisions
you were making with what you're doing with the team.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Uh no, he coach comes in, he gives some input.
But when it came down to practice and you know,
game time stuff, that was that was all me and
and and my assistance.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So you land in California again and like two nights
before you were an assistant coach. Now you're the head coach. Okay,
so you got to make what was that like standing
on the sideline at the so Cal Classic as now
the head coach?
Speaker 2 (06:47):
It was say, a little bit different because we used
to sitting on the sideline for the last three years
just sitting down. You don't get to stand up there much,
you know. I make it a point to stand up
a little bit more than then normal. So that really
only a difference. Then it's just man you get to make.
You just make decisions. You know, you can always have
(07:07):
an input, give your opinion or advice the coach, but
it comes down when you stand up. It comes down
to decisions you make. So that's sounding a difference.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, it's a It is a big difference. So those
eighteen inches, that's a that's a that's a big move.
So you like, you played for Clyde in college, right,
and then and then you played fourteen years overseas hoops
thirteen years, thirteen years. So here's an honest thing. I
feel like when you first start becoming a head coach,
(07:40):
like like you assistant too for a minute. When you
first start coaching, a lot of times you are the
guy who maybe had the most effect on you. It's
not always what I mean is like when you start coaching,
I don't think I'm Eddy Sutton, right, But there's coaches
along your path that you learn from, you kind of emulate,
(08:01):
and especially early on before you developed kind of your
own voice, your voice is similar to theirs. When you
first started this year, who'd you think that you had
played for that you were most similar to?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
I don't know, I don't know. It's a tough one.
You know, I've had some some pretty good coaches, you know,
but being around coach for the last three years, you know,
I think my voice kind of you know, leaning more
towards his. You know. Uh he coached three years in
college and I was assistant here for three years before
you know, before he took the medical lead. And but
you know, just trying. I'm not saying I'm the smartest
(08:37):
guy in the world, but I just try to take,
you know, different stuff from different coaches because a lot
of I've played for a lot of good coaches and
they have always so.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
So so give me, give me somebody played for and
give me somebody who take take from them.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
You know. Coach Coach Gillespie, you know, he he's a
big influence, you know, I had. I had a coach
in Puerto Rico, call those Gunzales. You know, even though
he was like one or two years older than me,
he still was a pretty good coach.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
You know, what what what about what what about me?
Carlos Gonzalez a really good coach.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Just he you know, he always kept it like, kept
it fun, you know, but was serious a lot of
times too. We were very serious, you know. He made
sure we practiced hard, but you know, once we got
our work done, we had we had a lot of
fun as well. So he just he just was that coach,
a real players coach. You can always get along with him.
(09:30):
You know, never never a situation where it was arguments,
so any kind of you know, any kind of bad
blood within the team. So that I took that up.
I took that a lot. You know, we enjoy playing
for him.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
I think that's I think it's an important thing. It's
it's really interesting, you know. I'll give you a couple
of guys I played. So I played for My high
school coach was Andy Ground. He was my second high
school coach. Andy grad played, Uh, I played a little
with JV. I played JV and varsity. My freshman year,
he was my JV coach. He became the varsity had coached,
and he since has gone on to win four straight
(10:04):
four state junior college titles. He's actually kind of retired,
but helping out of high school and a lot of
the way I talk when I coach is him. But
also he had a belief that like every out of
bounds play, he wanted to score on right, you want
to run to score, and he also was somebody who
(10:26):
I felt like would score on the initial action and
then also score on a secondary action. And I think
most coaches try and do one or the other. And
so again it's a thought process of mind. Is like,
especially with young kids, I try and do you score
in the first action, and with older groups you try
and do both. But the other part to it that
(10:48):
I didn't know I picked up from him, and it
sounds like you picked up in Puerto Rico. Is I
kind of feel like the perfect he said players coach
is guys do want discipline, they do want to be coached.
They just don't want to carry over when practice or
the game is over correct correct right, Like that's a
(11:10):
real thing, Like they won't have to You got to
be around each other a lot. And if you're constantly
talking about turnovers or mister Simon's like, they're not gonna
want to.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Be around you, to be around you, no, no, no.
And that's how it was. You know, I had a good,
good relationship with other coaches, but he was the main
one that that you know, as soon as practice o
with Jojoe, what you what you're trying to do? Trying
to get something to eat? Let's go get something to eat.
You know, we we we used to meet up, watch
watch watch batch different you know, playoff games and stuff,
(11:38):
watch boxing fights, and it was always a cool gutta
be around. But I know once we got on the court,
you know, that was he was. He was the coach
when I was a player. You know, I respected him
a lot, and you know he made ship may just
wanted to win. We both had the same come and
go that was the win.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
So one of the things that assistant coaches do all
the time is they always think, when I get my
own team, I'm gonna do this. What was the biggest
adjustment you made as you started to get comfortable in
being the interneat coach.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Just probably just my you know, just being patient with
the players. You know, as as as an assistant coach,
I think your your your job is to always be
on them for us, trying to have them, you know,
do things a little bit quicker so you can help
the coach out, you know, because the coach got to
think about other things. So you just want the players
to be Hey man, you got to pick it up,
(12:33):
you got to go. You got to make decisions. That's
that's decision faster, because that's what we see the coach
got is trying to worry about how to run the team,
how to how to manage the game. Just you need
to do this a little bit quicker. So I think
being patient, you know, and just letting the players try
to understand, you know, the game, but for for them,
you know. My main goal was not to try to
(12:54):
change up a lot of any a lot of things
because I didn't know if coach was coming back or
when he was coming back, you know, so I didn't
want to. I didn't want to make at all these
changes to something that you know, I'm used to far
as a uh mostly playing professional ball. So I wanted
to make sure I kept its simple, you know. I
plug in a couple of different things every once while
(13:15):
from different plays, you know, in certain situations that we
might do just you know, maybe a ball screening coverage,
something like that. Just trying to mix up a game.
And that's that's that's the only thing I really done.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I feel like those of us when we get to
play overseas, there's just so many different ways in which
they do things right. And again, you don't want to
take all of them, but you take some of them,
And it's great because you it's very different from how
college has traditionally been coached, right, Like I do feel
(13:47):
like I get it end of the day. It's about
you know, ball street at the topic key. But it
does feel like guys that have coached in college, they
keep doing the same things over and over again because
that's how we were coached in college, whereas the guys
that extended periods of time overseas you got a little
bit different player to it. What what what did you
glean most from all your days playing professionally that you
(14:08):
like to bring to the college game.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Just you know, the the most used set that I
think they're using collage now could possibly the horn set. Yes,
you can get so much out of it. So you know,
we coach had a horn set in there, but it
really wasn't you know, just the regular you know, boss
spring roll and pop up of guy pop. So you know,
(14:32):
I put a couple of different variations of it, and
it just from playing and you know we've used it
a lot this year. You know, I want to use ice,
but I don't just I don't think I don't think
the guys understand how to play that boss screen defense.
So but just you know, trying to be a little
bit more up up tempo with things, you know, getting
(14:55):
a little bit more freedom. That's how that's that's the
game I'm used to. You know.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Interesting, I feel like I feel like international rules and
you tell them what you think. If you think differently,
is cool. I love the international rules, I really do.
I don't like the way the international game is officiated,
you know. I want to make sure people understand that.
I think the officiating is terrible, right, the interpretation of
traveling I don't get like. There's lots of things, but
(15:20):
the international rules, you know, like no bask interference, that's great.
I mean your offensive rebound you go get a tip
dug with the ball in the rim. Awesome, awesome, or
you could smack it off with on the rim. I
like that. The reset, the twenty four seconds o'clock, the quarters,
the lack of timeouts you can't call it live ball timeout.
Like all of those things I really like and I
(15:42):
think it creates a better flow to the game that
we that we have. What about your use of timeouts.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm not a time
I got I'm not a time out got I call them,
but you know, I just people always say, may you
got to seek out all your time outs. Yeah, I know,
you know, I call him when I have to just
try to, you know, change up the game. But you know,
my guy's been doing a good good job this year
of uh you know, just staying locked in the game,
(16:12):
and they I haven't had to call them. I haven't
haven't had to call you know, I don't want to
draw up anything that just this is ravaging play because
I don't That's not who I am. Uh. We practice
everything that we do, you know, so you know, the
guys are always prepared. You know. I was talking to
a coach not too long ago. He's like, man, you
got to have this play ready, this play ready. I said,
(16:34):
I really can't just sit here and tell you I
have a go to play. I have to see how
the game is been progressing, what they have been doing,
what I think they might do, and I have plays
ready for that, you know, and that we guys have
been running this whole season. So you know that that's
that's how I've been playing for the past thirteen years.
(16:54):
We didn't have a lot of sets, but you know,
we had plays and they you know, could go against
any any style of defense.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
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Speaker 1 (17:13):
How's the staff been to you been good.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Been good man. The guys been working hard. Man, It's
been fun. They've We've been having a lot of fun.
We've been in jaring, being around each other. You know,
it's never any problems when we traveling, never any problems
when we're in the office. Man, it's been it's been
really fun.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
What about the players. Was there a moment that you
feel like it became your team?
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I don't know, God to understand there's been a different
The only thing changed is I've became acting head coach.
That's on thing changed. I still treated the kids the
same way. I still went to study Hall with them
every night. We really while when we had study Hall,
I still ran study Hall. I was still in there
with them every night. So that dynamic and that situation
(18:02):
never changed. I've been there with them just like if
I was assistant coach the whole time. You know, only thing,
you know, I used to go to waits a lot
in the morning, but now, you know, I let guys
take that every once in a while.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Wait wait, she still did the study all but you
don't do the weights.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Yeah, ways, I can't. I did it too long and
I'm like, let me just sleep in just a little bit.
But I still I still do the study hall every night,
you know. So I'm still in there with the kids,
listening to everything they going through, you know, helping them
out with anything that they you know, need help on.
So yeah, I'm still doing the study hall.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Okay, how about this the last two years, where did
you sit on the bus?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I said, right at the end of the coaches, right
before the players.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Right right, you're the you're the right, You're still in
the same place, same place, and you didn't do head
coaches always front seat, right Yeah. Yeah, I think the
best part of being the head coach is you never
can be late to the.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Bus, right right, right? That is that is the best.
That's the best. You know. I'll make it a point,
you know, to you know, just make sure the guys
are owned before I come out. I'm like, you know,
I told her, you know, told a couple of coaches.
You know, just let me get give me your heads
up if anybody late, you know, we're going to always
set the time to where we are on time. You know,
(19:26):
we'll leave early. But you know, because if we say
the bus leave it at three forty five, we had
the guys loading up by three thirty. So if I
get okay, everybody in the bus at three thirty, we
out by three, you know, by three thirty five. So
I'm right there ready to go, you know, and we
get some time there. I'm not the guy if we
leave it three forty five. I'm coming down at three
(19:47):
forty five. Now, let's get to the gym. Let's get
set it in.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
You know, I get it, But it does, it does.
Being a head coach does allow you to occasionally you
got to take a leak, You forget something in the room.
You don't have to worry about it. It ain't leave without me.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Yeah, I don't want to be that guy. I don't
want to be that guy, you know. And I don't know.
I was talking to I was talking to somebody just
the other day and they was like, man, so if
you ever become a head coach, what you're gonna do?
I said, I go back and forth with its far
as should I keep going to study hall with the kids.
It's not for me. I really enjoy, you know, being
(20:22):
in study hall. We do what we do, our work,
the guys who they work. Then for the last ten
fifteen minutes, man, I try to talk to them with life,
no matter what it is, you know, try to give
them some of my experiences, so help them grow up,
you know. So they have somebody that can probably talk to.
And it's been good. It's been good, all right, give
me the.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
Okay, So they asked you, a coach, give me the
craziest overseas story. You got. Give me one.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Craziest old seed story. I keep it PG, I keep
it PG. Okay, PG right now. So the crazy old
seed story for me was a situation that me and
j pre Prince was in when we were playing basketball
in Iran and Trump had the he did the band
for the Muslim countries. We was just flying from Iran
(21:12):
to go to Dubai to to renew our visas and
we're supposed to be doing that for baby two to
three days. You know. He put the band on soon
as we touched down Dubai phone it started blowing up,
blowing up, blowing up, you know, Iran can't Trump said
Muslim concert. Muslim coms can come to America. Iran does
the same thing and not sept An Americans. So it
(21:34):
a two day, three day trip turned to a five
day trip and everybody's calling, what you're gonna do, What's
going to happen? Like, what's going on? And we was like,
I have no idea. I just know I brought one
bag to Dubai and all the rest of my stuff
is in Iran. I don't know if I'm going to
ever get to go back to get it or what.
So we ended up staying there five days. Uh. The
(21:57):
president of our team, he ended up calling the Secretary
defense because that was you know, they was teammates on
soccer team back in the day and we were the
only two Americans they were allowed to get a visa
to get back into our ring.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
What was it like playing that ring?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
It was actually it was okay, it was okay. It's
it's different. You know, none of the American stuff worked,
no credit card, no cell phone, nothing, a lot of traffic.
But people are cool, but you know you don't have that.
That was the food food really good. Food is really good.
You know, just don't have no freedom. That's it. You
don't have you don't have that much that freedom. We
(22:33):
had to have a driver and then when we go somewhere,
the driver had to stay with us because you know,
you never know what can happen to you over there.
You say one wrong to me, the government can come, come,
come find you, and they come scoop you up.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
That's crazy. Uh, it's amazing. So my my Dubai story
was I was playing this is well before you It's
two thousand and one, us playing in Russia, and we
had had a break and the team went to train
in Dubai and this is Dubai wasn't as evolved as
it is now. And because I'm one Jewish and two
(23:09):
you know, I had been to Israel a bunch. There's
a bunch of Hebrew writing on my passport and they're like, yo,
they will not let you into the country. Yeah, will
not let you into the country. So so I had
I literally had to stay in perm Russia and one
of like the youth team coach worked me out twice
(23:30):
a day every day like crazy shit running. They I
used to do this thing where they do like you
must have made ten three pointers all right, like nobody
feeding you. You got to go and get it, and
they like time you to see how pass and then
you get a simple water and you go do it again,
and do it again, do it again, and you like
get an hour workout where you're feeding yourself and going
(23:52):
full court and you got to get your own missus.
I'm like, this is crazy. Meanwhile, you know they came
back and those dudes had pictures they did camel rd
hanging out and they practiced hard whatever, but they chilled.
I was like, man, because I had Hebrew on my passport.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
No, I had to get it. I had to get
a whole new passport before I went to Iran because
I played in Israel two years, so I had to
get a whole new passport. In my agent like you
not getting in with that passport. We got to got
to get a new passport.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
I'm like, where who did you play for in Israel?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
First year, I was in for the lead good ball
up in the north. Yeah. In the second year we
won championship out with Ruce Line.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
That was pretty cool, right, that was the the you know,
they opened a new arena now, which is really nice.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
So when I that year that I played for him.
They were just opening up that arena. That the last
thing that they had. It wasn't even fully completed yet
we played in it. Still had still doing construction and
while we're playing in it. So and we won the
championship that year in it. So yeah, I had, I
got had some I guess stories about Israel. I loved
(24:57):
it over there and jored it.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Give me, give me one PG one.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
PG one probably had to be the time I thought
I thought I was going to jail because I'm you know,
we had played, we had played in uh in Tel Aviv.
I can't remember who we played against. I go back home,
I go back to Jerusalem and then you know, me
and my guys we come. We come back like hey man,
let's go out, you know, let's have a little fun.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
We come so the team, the team had a bus
and you went all the way back to Jerusalem.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Yeah, which is like.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
On a bus, it's like an hour.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Then you turn around like, yeah, now let's go out
and tell tell nothing nothing happens in Jerusalem.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, nothing nothing. So we go back to Tel Aviv
to go out and like it's a heel that you know,
that's coming from going to lead in Tel Aviv and
we rolled next thing. I know, cops, I'm like, I've
had I've been playing in Europe everywhere for a long time.
Cops do not have radar detective radar guns and like, yeah,
(25:55):
you're doing this and doing this and that, and I'm like,
we're just trying to go, you know, we to go
out a little bit. Tell them what team we played for,
and at that point in time, we were doing pretty good.
So they like, well, you know, if you if we
see this car again coming back through in a couple
of hours, whatever, we're going to stop you. So you
gotta make you gotta figure you got to figure it out.
(26:17):
So man, I went to Tel Aviv, we went out,
I had a good time. And one of my other boys,
he was playing for a team, he was playing for
Rishon Jeremy Smith went to Georgia table you spend at
his highse I'm like, nah, I ain't drinking that drive
back because i know for sure they gonna take it.
They're taking the scene.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
So yeah, the best part about playing Israel is when
I was there, we had a guy Jesse Salters, was
like an old head play South Florida, and yeah, I
never forget. He got Thanksgiving party and you know, you
got anywhere from two to four or five Americans on
the first division teams. Second division teams has a couple,
(26:55):
Third division teams have a couple. So we had like
Dick the Americans at a Thanksgiving party, and you just
you felt like you're at home, whereas everywhere else you
go you're really really isolated.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Really isolated, you know, and that was That's a good thing,
but also a bad thing because then you you know, guys, yo,
this you might know this guy. He might have a
beef with one of your other boys because they played
in the game, know, the different country. So now like, okay,
I see you a man, like what's going on? You know,
and it's always but it was fun over there because
(27:28):
you know, I got to meet be with guys that
you know, that I haven't met seen in a long
time since maybe high school, like Germans. He won of
them guys. We played against each other in high school,
you know. Then he went to Georgia Tech and went
to a and m I ain't seen him in a while,
but we was always close, you know, when we went
to camps and stuff. Played each other in high school.
So just you know, be able to kick you to
him for a whole pretty much a year. You know,
(27:50):
it was fun. It was real fun.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, it's an amazing part of the experience. The best
teammate you had overseas was.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Who probably be John's stepherson. We played together in Spain,
two years in Iceland. He from Iceland, though he played
he got he paid for the Mavericks a couple of
years too. So, uh, you know, he's been around, he'd
been around. He was older, he was old. He was
old head when I when I played with him, but
(28:18):
he was you know, still very good, very effective.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
What what what made him so such a good teammate?
Speaker 2 (28:24):
He just you know, I was on a black guy
on the team and he was you know, he just
he played with a bunch of guys like he he
played with uh you know, he played with David Hawkins.
You know, he was just the older guy, been around,
so he knew he understood what was going, you know,
he understood on the court and out the court. So
that's what we That's what that's how we connected a lot.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
What what is that? What is that like? Because like
again it's it's really interesting because in the States, you know,
like I mean again, I don't know. Your experience obviously
is a different place, feels like a really white campus.
But you you, but you do. But you have you know,
you got all the sports teams whatever, you got people,
and you get your teammates. So I'm sure you experienced
(29:10):
some of an m but it's not just the best,
like you're literally the first black person they've ever seen
in life. Yeah, yeah, what's that experience like?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
For me? It was cool. I come from a small town,
so it's not that many people, not many black people
in our town. Everybody's king each other as black most
for the most part. But once you go over there,
you're you know a lot of people start thinking you're African,
you know, so that that's the only difference depending on
what country you go to. You know, I played in
France for three years, prayed in Spain for three years.
(29:41):
You know, I paid in Turkey for one you know, Turkey,
when they see you, you know, black, they think you
you know you you you're African and your Muslim. So
you get a lot of that. But it's just when you.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Know, man, I like I like bacon, I like Va.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
I can't give it up. So you know that's that's
you know, that's what you tell them. But you know
they friendly very friendly.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Question but it's still but it's still it's still key,
you know, like like I'm a human being. Like you know,
they're like, but look at you as if you're there's
something out of a out of a out of a
dream run of a movie.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
You because you're black, you're American. You know, they think
you from New York most time. I'm not from New York.
I don't New York is a way a long way
from Texas. You know, I want to go to New York.
I'm not from New York. You can come to Texas,
come to Houston. Yeah, we'll show you good time down
there too. Uh.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
The weirdest jim you ever played in.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
You know, the you know, most of the gym in Israel.
I got the one side like it's high school.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Yeah, yes, so I played in one. I played in
one in Russia and mineral and it's called mineral Voda
like translates the mineral water. It's in the South and
they had an American dude who played there forever I
forget his name, old head whatever. He made a bunch
of money and it was the ugliest town ever. And
(31:09):
we go to this gym and it's got a wall
like it felt like a foot from the sidelines, and
then like on the other side there was a couple
of rows of stands, and then in the baseline there
was like probably ten rows of stands, and then they
had like a track balcony that went on the top
and that was like five deep in people standing to
(31:30):
watch the game. And I was like, this shit looks
dangerous as hell. But I'm thinking to myself, like we
had the best team in Rush of the year. I
was there, and we had expensive team and we're playing
in some yanky ass at gim. You're like, damn.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
All right, No, I went and paid one month in
Dominic Republic and going to the gym and you look
up like that's outside, that's it goes a wall, a
big gap, big space, being a roof, you birds flying through,
(32:05):
you know, using the rest of them on the court.
I'm like, what where are we at? But when I
tell you, it was rocking, It was rocking in there.
We sweating this so hot, so humid, but man, the
crowd is into it. Every time you we score, crowd
go crazy. They scored they going crazy. That's probably the
(32:26):
craziest gym I ever you know, played in right there.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
You know, it's interesting. So for people who don't know
and come, I'm wrong, the dr Puerto Rico and Venezuela,
those are like they're like spring pro leagues, right right,
and so and so most dudes do that to a
lot of guys, were guys that were like G League
guys or overseas guys that get cut. It's just a
(32:52):
good way to make quick buck. Well, you can go
Philippines the same way. Right, we can go there. You
don't to stay long. And so, uh, did you play
in Venezuela too.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Or just the pr on D.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
But it's but it's also like you got to produce
right away or they get rid of you too.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
And yeah, yeah, no, that's what happened when I first
time went to Puerto Rico. I went down and replaced
a guy in the in the playoffs first round the playoffs.
In the first game was at home, and I'm watching
the first round, the first game of the series, and
I replaced him the next for the next game. I'm
seeing him play, and I'm like, this is a cold word,
(33:33):
y'all bring me in to replace this guy, and I'm
watching the game and he actually paid well, they got
him up out of there the next day. So I'm like,
who am I to say what you can and can't do?
Speaker 1 (33:45):
But just as when you take their apartment, that's here
and ship.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, well, I'm saying, go in there.
You know, they put me in the same apartment. He's
left some things. I'm like, man, I said, should I
mail him back to him? Or what? You know? Did
y'all clean this place first before y'all put me in here?
That's the first that's the first question you asked you.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I don't know, definitely a solid question. Yeah, Like, it's
really interesting how many people want to push the college
thing to become a professional thing. And those are a
lot of people that have never played professional basketball.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Oh no, no, no, they don't. They don't understand the
ruthless business that it is professional basketball. And it really is.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Uh okay, So let me be the first to congratulate
you because at the time of this recording, in five minutes,
it can be announced you're the whack coach of the year. Wow,
that's pretty freaking awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
It is.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
I mean think about that. From from finding out the
night before you're going on a trip to California to
now all of a sudden you're named the whack coach
the Year. What's that like for you?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Really can't explain it. I'm just I'm happy because the
guy and they played, they busted off for me this year,
you know, and I appreciate them for doing that. But
you know, it's just something I never I didn't think
that would happened to me. You don't think you don't
think about culture of the Year. The only thing you
worry about it is thinking about trying to win championships
(35:14):
and to have to be awarded that, man, it means
I did something good and you know, and somebody, somebody,
somebody had to vote. So I'm I'm happy for that.
I'm ecstatic.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
You are steen as an incredible defensive mind defensive coach. Right.
Part of it is obviously yours of playing, and part
of it is what you focused on since since coach.
If somebody would ask you, like, ay, man, like, what's
what's the secret? What what is your What are your
little things that you like to implement that you harp
(35:47):
on that are important on a daily base because we
always talk about fundamentals offensively, you know when you talking
about basketball like man, every day you gotta work on
passing and cutting and movement and the fundamentals. What are
those fundamental things defensively which have allowed you to be
widely regarded as an outstanding defensive coach?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Just being a staying active, staying active, you ain't take
any places off. And what I like to you know
what I harp on to these guys. These kids don't
like to play defense these days, and that's just part
of it. That is part of basketball now generation, this
generation doesn't like to play defense. So I tell him,
if you don't want to play defense, don't let you
(36:26):
guys catch the ball. Then you'll never have to play defense.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
I love that I'd actually told it. I've actually used
that to my sons. My son is little in eighth grade.
He hadn't grown yet, right, so he's like, Dad, I
keeps is showing me. He'show me he's too big for me.
I was like, hey, here's the deal, buddy. If he
doesn't catch it, he can't I just show you.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Right, And I learned the hallway. You know. I pride
myself on defense, and people say, oh, you don't pay
no defense. I learned real quick. We're playing in the
program when I was in college in Houston and were
playing against with Sean Lewis. This is at the time
when with charlottuis at Seattle. You know, so he's good,
you know, and it's in Houston, so they're gonna take
care of him as well. After about two or three
(37:11):
Ice holds at the top of the key, I'm like,
hold on, man, I own him. I don't care where
he had in the court. He's not catching the ball.
You know, they're not gonna let your guard and where
you want to guard him. And he's he's a he's
he's a pretty good basketball player. So it ain't got
the way I wanted to work out every time. So
let me just eliminate the whole deal and don't let
(37:32):
him catch it all.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
When you when you sub, do you say something like
you pull a guy sub of him? Do you say
a guy do you say something to them? You know
the assistants handled you. Let him like walk on by
and just feel your energy, like what's your what are
you like? When you take guys in it out?
Speaker 2 (37:48):
It depends on the situation, and it depends on the guy.
I got it. I got a great relationship with all
the kids, but you know some you know, I kind
of hold him a little bit higher than than others.
So you know, once you but you know, you bring
him off and he's not doing what he's supposed to do.
You know, I tell him, like, you're probably gonna be
here a while. So either you can go down there
(38:10):
sit at the end, or you can go sit in there,
real close to the coaches, you know, and hope that
I look down there and try to put you back
in because but I say different things. But you know,
I say something to him if it's to the if
it's real bad, you know, I show my my true
colors as a player, still a player. He come off,
(38:31):
I'm not shaking your hand or nothing. Man, you're messing
up the game for us. And if I was playing
with you, I would have told Coach some of you
out a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
That's that's real right there.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Playing. I've done that a few times.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
So sure, get him, coach, Get get him the fuck out.
He's killing us him, Get him and for him, he's
gonna be me again, exactly right. Okay, So last thing,
Billy got an extension. Mm hmm, right, but you got
(39:08):
the coach of the year right, right, So how does it?
How does it work? Did you guys all get extended?
Like what what happened when when he got extended?
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I think I think we I don't know, I don't
know how it goes, but I think we all got extended.
But I could be wrong. At the end of the day,
it's all who coach, you know, wants to bring back
on his coaching staff. That's what it comes down to
at the school, want to renew contracts, That's that's But
I think that since you're here already and the head
(39:36):
coach gets extended, I would think that everybody gets an extension.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
And your coaching the year, I think that you're pretty good.
But it also has to make you think. I don't
know where you thought you were in your growth curve
as a coach in terms of being ready. But you
have to feel ready now, don't you like to have
your own team?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
I feel I feel ready. You know, some people might
say I'm not ready, But at the end of the day,
who knows if they're ready or not until they in
the moment. No one knows. So like I didn't never
think that, you know, you bet I would be a
pretty good basketball player. I stepped on the court. First
game happened, second game happened, third game, and so on.
(40:16):
I kept getting better, kept showing showing that I can
deserve to be on the court. You know, I think
the same thing probably goes into coaching as well, especially
a head coach. You know, it doesn't You don't know
until you really do it. And if people say that,
you know, what I did this year is a you know,
had something to do with that, I would think that, hey, it,
we would be okay, I'll be.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Well, okay. So look, I do think that coaching is different.
But I also think that in terms of preparation playing
thirteen years for all those different coaches and all those
different systems, like.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
You know.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Like again, I don't want to say that everybody's ready
to coach right after they get done playing, but in
many ways that's just as if not more value for
thirteen years.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I think.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
So I think what you've done both out.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I think I think so because you know, I see
playing those playing those years, I see the game a
little bit different when at times you know and understand,
you know what's what's going on a little bit more.
You know, when I first when I got back into coach.
When I got into coaching, I started seeing a lot
of people running your euro ball screen offense. I'm like,
(41:29):
I ran that every team I played played on. I
know what's gonna happen before it even you know, before
the players developed, just because of the players that you
have on the court, and I know what's gonna I
know what what they're designated to do. You know, you can't.
You're gonna tweak it so much to make it your own.
But for the most part, it's gonna happen the same
(41:50):
thing's gonna happen. The ball is gonna be reversed from
side to side, back, cut, handoff or you know, pitch
and and ball screen, that's gonna it's gonna happen the
same way regardless. So, you know, just seeing that, I
started understanding that, you know, more of the European game
started making its way into college. So I'm like, this
is what I'm used to. I've been playing for thirteen years,
(42:11):
you know, and I've been I played a lot of minutes,
so you know, I've seen it, so I understand it.
My basketball eye is okay enough to see it and
recognize it.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Have you have you made a mistake that you owned
up to to the players.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Oh? Yeah, I have, I have, I have. You know,
it was a couple of games just I don't want
to tell him a secret to what I to my
coaching style, but you know I told him that I
felt like I should have made you know, made made
an adjustment, you know, in the game a little bit
sooner than than than I did. Maybe that would have
(42:53):
helped us, you know, win the game. And ever since then,
I've been I've been.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Look, I can't speak to every okay, but it does
feel like our generation of guys, especially guys that play,
we'll say to a team like, hey, I fucked that up.
Guys listen more when you're more honest with them and
(43:18):
you say like, hey, we all screwed up. I screwed
it up a little bit. You know. Have you noticed
that as well?
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Yeah? I know that I noticed that. I noticed that,
and and and the guys you know, they always had
they always have them back when I tell him that. Now, Jojo, man,
that was on us. You know, we could have did
this and did that better. We should have done this,
you know, we did all we didn't listen to you
when you told us this. You know. They they've always
right there, you know, and backed me with when I
when I say that to them, and I and I
(43:48):
tell them same thing. Man, We're gonna all make mistakes.
You know. We can't control everything, but we can try
to get better each and every day and when that day,
and that's what we try to do.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Did you you got you guys have comp cars and assistance.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
No, no, I got my own car.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Even as the interim head coach and now the Coach
of the year. We don't have you with a cop car. Ah.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
No, I'm still I'm still still fishing my big dog.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
What's the big dog? What's what's what's the weapon you're
driving to work?
Speaker 2 (44:15):
Twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (44:17):
Yukondinalite, bro we got I mean no disrespect to yukondinality.
I've had I've had that myself. Wait, do you have
the okay you kind of such an suv? Yeah, but
we we coach of the year in the whack. We
need somebody, somebody in in town's got to hook you
up with a with a new ride. That's kind of right.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Never know, you never know, I'm not I'm not going
to turn it down. I know that.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
How are you in Texas and you don't have a pickup?
I just never I mean sub is kind of suv,
is kind of a Hooper's pickup. Yeah yeah, have you
owned it? Have you owned a pickup?
Speaker 2 (44:54):
No? I haven't. You know, for the because I lived
in Houston, So you know, when I was coming up
and I played, and he is Houston most time I'm
coming up, that's all the all the Hoopers had escalades
and stuff like that, so you know that's what I seen.
So I'm like, you know, at the enduring that time,
I couldn't afford to escalate, so I said, let me
get the next best thing.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
I think thought, well, uh, that's that's my new have
a new goal. A new goal is to use this
podcast to get the Whack Coach of the Year, the
twenty twenty four Whack Coach of the Year, a new
a new ride, a comp new ride too. You ain't
comeing out of pocket for it. That's got to be
part of the deal. The deal.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, yeah, it's unacceptable.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
It's unacceptable. And then you're like, you know, you can
sell it to the guys like, hey man, this is
not my car. This is all of our car. You
guys won this for me.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
It is great.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
I'm gonna drive it home.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Yeah, this is you need a ride? Just how let me?
You know, I think I can give you a ride.
I don't think it's against the rules give you a
ride somewhere. So yeah, now you hear about the perks
as as a player. You know all the coaches getting
vehicles and stuff and getting free food. And you know
the hook up I got is I get a couple
of free meals every once in a while. But it's
(46:04):
haven't been a call, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Give it. Give a shout out. Best place to grab
a meal in town is where.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Oh man, that's tough. It's tough. It's just spending what
you want. Ass tech us pretty good, Purple Gold pretty good.
You know, uh take us good for what Mexican food?
Speaker 1 (46:23):
But what like, what's your what's your Meskan food order?
You a torta guy? You a taco guy, you'r a
burrito guy? What do you?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
I'm I'm a I'm a uh pork guy. I like
I like, I like I like.
Speaker 1 (46:37):
In a taco in a burrito jeans.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
Most time I'm just you know, on the plate with
some with some with some with some uh chero beans
and rice.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
All right, when you're back home in Houston, where's your spot?
Like every time I roll into Houston, I have to
go here.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Used to be Papa Doos, but now it's uh now
it's it's so many. That's just I just stick with Papados.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Is good. It's a chain, but it's good.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
But that's, you know, because the people don't understand. Like
everybody like soul food places, I'm gonna eat soul food.
I get sold food anytime I want. I grew up
on it. So if if anything, if I'm gonna go somewhere,
I'm gonna go home and let my mom cook for me.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Okay, So when your mom cooks for you and she
knows what you want, what do you what's your soul
food on.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
H I'm a big, I'm a big, I'm a big.
How do they got how do they food? So? Sweet? Potatoes, greens,
u any kind of meat you can be steak, turkey,
you know, not a ham guy like that, but any
kind of meat, chicken. But if she put that in
there and then some cage and cabbage and some corn bread,
(47:56):
I'm set. And then she thought but now the putting
in there and a sweet potato pie, maybe it'll become pie.
I'm all good.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
That's that sounds amazing. That sounds amazing. I'm looking for
the invite. You tell me when you're going. I've never
had Cajun cabbage though, so I don't even know what
that is, Like I've had all the rest.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, yeah, no, my mom. I don't know where she
got it from. She just cooks it and I hate it.
So I love it. I love it.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Sounds sounds amazing. Well, you made a proud your coach
of the year. We're gonna get you a new car.
It's gonna be done. Yeah, I appreciate gonna it's gonna
be It's gonna be done. Well. I like watching as
a player. I enjoyed talking to you as a coach
even more. Thanks so much for joining metal Ball.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
He appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
All right, that's it for my conversation with the new
WHAC coach of the Year. Think about that. Doesn't actually
know if he'll be back at Charlton State next year.
Won twenty three games, is the internead coach and hasn't
been told if the contract extension for the head coach
means he gets that check extension. Nonetheless, pretty good in
your resume what he's been able to accomplish, and even
(49:04):
better than we got to know him. It'd be awesome.
Hope you enjoyed it. Remember The Doug Gottlieb Show is
daily three to five Eastern trop Too Pacific. Plus we
have a podcast hour. You can listen to it in
podcasts for But tell your friends about this one. This
is a good one thanks to Joe Jones, interead coach
at Charlton State. I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball
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