'The Scheme' Review; Hoops Budgets Hits; Loyola Marymount HC Stan Johnson on Escaping War Torn Liberia, Culture Building

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey, what, I'm welcome in Doug Gottlieb here, and you
have downloaded All Ball, the All Basketball podcast, and um,
I'll give you a couple of quick thoughts on the scheme. Um. Actually,
they're gonna be really quick thoughts. Look, if you're a
basketball guy, you know there's been these runners, hangers, honors,
guys looking to make some cash off some kids for

(00:27):
a long time. It's always been gross to me. Just
is it's always been gross to me, Like we can
have a legit conversation about paying guys not paying guys.
You know, I'm I'm not for it. I don't think
that's what it's all about. I think the gift is
the payment is the education and kind of like the
keys to the kingdom of future wealth, which is a

(00:49):
college degree and the people you're around. But I think
we can all whether or not you think that universities
UM exponentially benefit from the talents of student and athletes.
We can have that to debate. What I think is
not debatable is these guys are gross, Like this is
a fucking clown to me. He just is sorry, Like

(01:11):
I note too, I was reading like comments on Twitter
like how it's like some hero for f the n
c A, Like alright, dude, well, the n c A
actually is the schools. It's not some legislative body that rules,
and we had to figure it out that way. Um.
But you know, you just because if you don't like

(01:31):
a rule or that, that's fine. You don't have to
like the rule. Like get together and get a group
of people and try and change the rule and change
things for the better. But just you know, it's I
just I think it's gross, not just in giving players money.
But to me, what's super gross is like all these
guys take money off the top like it's such as
it really is a scheme and it's slimy. If the

(01:53):
if the players are really worth whatever payments that you're arranging,
then they should get every penny of it, not their parents,
not their friends and death only, not you. But you
know that's what guys do you know, I got a
guy for you, hook me up here. This is not
I don't think that's the blueprint for every basketball player.
I don't like the idea everybody's cheating because I've been
around it, and I do we do some of that.

(02:16):
Some of this exists, sure is the majority. I don't
believe so more than anything these hanger on or runner
dudes that cling to a kid. The kid has all
the talent, You're gonna guide them and you're gonna get
paid along the way. That's just I don't know, it's
just gross to me. I go get your own ship.
If you can play, go fucking play. If you can
become an agent, go get it, get a lot degree,

(02:36):
get certified as an agent. But being some go between,
I'm gonna call guys and hook a guy up, and
I'll get you this guy if you give me a
little bit off the top, Like, that's just gross to me.
Just is so. I watched it and I it just it.
It's popularizing and mainstreaming something that that's existed in the
basketball world, and I've just always kind of found to

(02:58):
be gross. And I don't think, like, let's not associate
every guy who's ever brought a player with them. I
don't think that bringing a player with you in order
to get a college job, or to move from high
school to junior college or whatever. I don't I don't
look whatever it takes, you know, legally for you to
get that opportunity, because that's all you can ask for
in life is an opportunity to show you can do something.

(03:20):
I'm talking about these these guys that they've made a
living out of being a runner, out of being a
hanger on, of being a guy who you know, peels
off a couple hundred bucks to a kid meanwhile, is
getting you know, paid from a several different ends. Uh,
in order to control where that kid goes. Where a
player should go to school should be based upon what's

(03:40):
best for that kid for the now, you know, for
his personality, for his game, for his future. That's what
should be important. And we do, we lose track of it.
We just do. This is a weird hiring season, super
super weird in that there just haven't been a lot
of jobs. And I said this on a radio show.

(04:02):
By the way, you can hear the radio show three
to sixty Eastern twelve or three Pacific every day on
Fox Sports trade of the I Heart Radio app. You
can also download the podcast there. That way you can
get the best stuff best stuff and work a little
bit more condensed. But I've said this before is that
one of the things that we haven't really dug into
is how this is gonna affect college athletics specifically, college basketball,

(04:24):
which doesn't make a ton of money for the university,
and honestly, thankful for, thankfully for, these athletic departments are
not going to have the winter sport kids around for
another year. Not that they didn't want the kids to play,
but more scholarships is more cost and more cost any
year which everybody's gonna everybody's books are gonna be off.
And when when the n c A is used to

(04:45):
paying out over you know, six hundred million dollars and
they're getting two seventy five from insurance, like everybody's gonna
take a hit. No conference tournaments. You're talking about your
athletic department, you know, being off by ten to fifty
into twenty million dollars and they're gonna get less, if
not any, no money from the state, from the school
because everybody's gonna tighten their belt here. So I think

(05:08):
that had to happen where you had to rule those
kids couldn't come back if nothing else for the dollars
and cents of it didn't make sense. Do you wish
guys got a chance to play the n s A tournament? Sure?
Does it re iterate my point that the n c
A Tournament is as are more valuable to the players
than it is to the schools because they need that
promotion to make a name for themselves. Absolutely, it's still

(05:29):
a bummer. It's not cool. And you know now we're
missing a final four. At those final four's, you would
see guys with resumes, there'll be interviews taking place. You know,
in the neighborhood of seventy to a hundred jobs. Head
coaching jobs seem to be open on a yearly basis,
maybe not that many, probably in the variety. Next year
will be a year which you'll see probably a spike.

(05:50):
This year you will not not a ton of jobs open.
But we had Jeff Linder last week he got the
Wyoming job, came up from Northern Colorado. This week we
we have Stan Johnson who is going to join us. Stan,
of course, is a longtime assistant coach, never been a
head coach, played at Southern Utah and at a Midgee
State and we've been friendly over the past decade or so.

(06:12):
I can only tell you that the guy can hoop,
and he's got a young family. He's gonna move from
Marquette from Milwaukee out to Los Angeles, PLA Del Rays
where l m U is located now. Louis La Mery
Mount used to be the home of the NBA Summer
League and they were one of the first to take
advantage of of of transfers. What what what people forget

(06:33):
about louis La Mery Mount is they remember Hank and Bow.
What they forget is uh that Hank and Bow were
together at USC and I believe when they're at USC
they actually won the pack ten before they went on probation.

(06:56):
But both Kimball Hank Gathers. We're not the first big
transfers to land at Loyala Merymount, not even close. It
was actually UM a group before a year before that
team took off for a couple of years. For they
had they had Corey Gains UM. Corey Gains transferred over

(07:18):
from u C l A and the first the first
year that Hank and Bow played they at l m U.
They dominated the w c C. That team had Corey
Gains as their point guard. Corey average seventeen and nine.
Granted those stats were skewed because of the pace of play.
Jeff Fryar was a sophomore that year. He's from Coronel

(07:40):
Mar High School. Still works for kids. Great shooter. Mike
Yost was one of the old heads from the previous regime,
and they had Bow, Kimball and Hank Coash. Imagine a
team in which Jeff Friar, Corey Gains, Mike Yost, Bo Kimball,
and Hank Gathers. Bow and Hank both average twenty two
a game, Yost and Gains average seventeen a game, and
Friar average twelve a game, all on one team. And

(08:01):
they had Enox Simmons coming out the bench. Enoch Simmons. Uh.
The year after Corey Gains finished up end up averaging
I think nineteen a game. So they had so many
dudes who can get buckets, it was it was really
kind of crazy. They had a guy named Mark Armstrong
as well. It came up the bench average about eight
and eight. So they took Corey games from u C

(08:22):
l A. They took Bow and and Hank from USC
and uh, let's roll, Let's let's go play some who right,
And so the the idea of transfers in the w
into the w c C from the Pack twelve or
Pac ten back then. This is not a new idea,
only now everybody's doing it, right, now there's all kinds
of movement in college basketball. It's one of the challenges

(08:43):
to high major, low major, mid major basketball, getting guys
to move up, getting guys to move down in terms
of levels. Do you get grad transfers? Do you get
four year transfers. You're not gonna get a lot of
jucos at l m U. Do you red shirt guys?
Do you play the long game? Do you do the
international thing? So there's all different sorts of ways to
build a program and where you are when you're in

(09:04):
Los Angeles, generally you should recruit all of just recruit
all of l A. You can always be out on
the road without being on the road, still sleep in
your own bed. But you have to know who to pick,
who to recruit from. You gotta recruit all these guys
and then get get some on bounce back. But you
gotta make sure you take the right guys. Kind of interesting.
Let's catch up with Stan Johnson. He's got all of
these challenges. Who to take, how to build, how to

(09:24):
get loyal mere amount back to where they were Because
now you're in the WCC where Gonzaga is a high major,
b y U is is rolling and I think they're
going there. You consider them a high major. They have
though they can't recruit the whole country, the group, they
can recruit as a fervent fan base and there's plenty
of players. I think Mark Pope's brilliant coach. He's gonna

(09:45):
be excellent there. Sat Mary's has been dominant. Um. You know,
they're gonna have to remake themselves yet again going forward
to next year and now you have quality coaches and
investment in Pacific with Damon Steinmeyer has got a lot
of his team back next year. San Francis sco Um
you know is a program which is I think on
the rise in Santa Clara, so little LMU was trying

(10:09):
to kind of crack that code to get back among
at least the middle and maybe challenge the elite. The
hired Stan Johnson, who has never been a head coach before.
Here's my conversation with stand. Be sure to catch the
live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three
pm Easter Noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the
I Heart Radio WAP. He's the new head coach at

(10:30):
Loyal Merrormounts first head coaching gig. He's Stan Johnson, he
joins us down the All Ball podcast. Um, let's let's
let's go back. Okay, let's go back when you were
at Southern Utah. Wasn't Monica your best Monica was the
best player before you? You got to be a scene like,
how did your career with with Southern Utahgo? Yeah, I

(10:53):
plought a lot of balls and Jeff Monica, Uh, you know,
he was a great player. I mean, I don't know
if you remember. We had a team one year. I
think we were We won twenty five games, we lost
Detroy Bill in New York pretty much at the buzzer
against Boston College. And we have two guys that were
just incredible, Jeff Monico and Cred House. Uh, who were

(11:15):
you know, great great players, probably could have played anywhere
in the country. Uh, you know by the time they
were seniors, and you know, I was, you know, the
defensive specialists, the glue guy, the old guy, kind of
a leader on the team. And my job is to
make sure those guys got enough shots in the game.
Monico his freshman year, I got him dunked on by
a desimation pretty pretty nasty. He was chasing me down

(11:39):
at the Old Gallagher I and he was just a freshman.
He's like chasing me down like six ft probably one
sixty at the time. He's gonna be, you know, Johnny
on the spot. I just threw that stuck out the
back wood. He turned around, he got a mouthful and
dozen Mason nuts. It was it was pretty. But from
from that point, obviously his career career took off. How
did you end up at How did you end up there?
How did you up at Southern Etah? That's a crazy

(11:59):
story that he know. I was actually born like very
West Africa. So my mom is an American citizen. A
war broke out, thank god, we had dual citizenship. H
lost everything, packed up our bags, came to the States
with three bags, and we moved to Salt Lake. And
as I was growing up, you know, we my my

(12:19):
family would take trips from Salt Lake to like St.
George and and on I fifteen South you would always
pass Sedither City and something Utah would be on your left.
I remember going, there is no way in hell I
could ever go to school here and live in this town.
And you know what, you gotta be careful what you
say because as my college of my high school career

(12:42):
developed that end up being you know, a great option
for me in the place I felt the most comfortable.
Um and you know staff that really recruited to be
the hardest, so I end up picking something Utah, Okay,
So why did you when you moved? How over you
when you moved? I ten when the war broke out?

(13:03):
What are your what do you remember what you result like?
What are your memories of Liberia? I remember it. I
remember it like it was yesterday. I mean remember everything.
You know, we we lived in My dad was a
mining engineer, so uh, you know, in in in those
countries and third world countries, you either have or you
don't have. There's no middle class. We were fortunate to

(13:24):
have and we lived in a almost a German community
because there was a huge mining company that everybody worked at. So,
you know, I can't remember everything. I remember being in
a place that was so safe you could literally, at
the age of eight, walk from your school to to
your house, regardless of our part was. You know, I

(13:45):
remember the day that the rebels came in to overtake
the country and they had all of us at gunpoint,
our entire school really and again by the grace of God,
we would let go. And I remember uh the American
uh govern that landing a military war plane that could
fit tanks in on a mining script that they had

(14:07):
to create because the airport had been blown up. I
remember getting into that plane and uh, you know, flying
to necessarily owned and then from there to the States.
So I mean, you couldn't make it up. It was
straight out of a movie. Well, and then you you
end up in Salt Lake, of all places, which I
know you when you're around a German community, there's plenty
of white faces. But to be in Salt Lake where

(14:28):
they're all white faces, what was what was that transition?
Remember about the transition in your early teenagers? Yeah, I
mean I mean completely different, you know, even being in
the German community. I mean there's there's more black people
in African Americans than there are you know, Germans. But
you know, you moved to Salt Lake. I remember my
first recess, man first recess. Uh, they're playing basketball and

(14:52):
again I'm probably at that time. You know, Salt Lakes
has grown a lot since then. Thus I'm the only
brother Lee in the school, you know, me and my
little brother probably, So what do you think they think
this guy can play. I'm the first pick. I didn't
know if you were supposed to dribble the ball or
kick the ball. And that was the last time I

(15:14):
was picked, uh first for the entire year. I mean
I was the last pick. And when they got to
the team that had to pick me, was piste off
that they had me. So, you know, I made a
commitment that summer, like I'm gonna learn this game and
I'm gonna get pretty good at it. But the thing
that they taught me was, man, what power that ball
has that a kid from West Africa could connect with

(15:35):
the Caucasian kid from Murray, Utah and built a great bond.
And since then then I just fell in love with
the game. But it was because of those moments. So
who is your guy that recruited you at Southern what assistant?
His name was Bob Law And Bobby Law was a
Southern Utah for a long time. He's at Stins at

(15:55):
cal Paul, he saying, as they stayed, he's now out
of the business, but you know, just a great guy,
you know, someone who made me see it, like, you know,
I was one of his own kids. And uh, he's
actually had a tremendous impact, you know, on my career.
And you know how I see the game in what way?
What about him? Do you is similar? Because he had

(16:19):
he had a knack. Uh you know, do you played,
You've been in a lot of locker rooms. Man, he
had to knock a knack when he when he was
his scout and he was presenting before you went out there.
He had a way to raise your level, you know,
from wherever you were at, he could raise your level,
you know, in a sincere way. He could get you

(16:41):
juiced and pumped up and really really motivated to uh
to go out and play. And that's something that I've
you know, I've I've really taken, you know, the importance
of those moments. You know, you're not gonna win the
game just off share adrenaline at some point. He's got
to be one than that. But I learned the importance

(17:02):
of that, you know, in terms of a guy's psyche
before a game, how important that is getting people off
to a good start. Uh. So that's something I've I've
really taken from him, and I've tried to build on,
you know, my eighteen years of doing this. It's interesting,
I there's a lot of coaches who will say, like you,
you can't coach effort, I completely disagree. I think that's

(17:23):
a huge portion of what you of which you I mean, like, look,
you you know you you coach with Steve Wojahowski, like,
and I understand that the guys are either wired to
play like Woe Joe or not. But it feels to
me like effort is they getting guys to play hard,
whether or not you set out that way or not.
Like that was our thing at Oklahoma State, was like, Hey,
we're just gonna We're gonna it might not be pretty,

(17:45):
we're gonna outplay everybody. You know, We're gonna We're just
gonna play hard. But why do coaches, why do coaches
do this thing where they go like, well, you can't
coach effort, like you absolutely can. Well, I think it's different.
You know, I think you know, if a guy is lazy,
you know in our business, uh, when you should recruit him?
You know, that's different. But if even the guy who
works hard and the guy who has it, there's still

(18:07):
days where you don't feel like it, and on the
days your team doesn't feel like it, on certain games
where they're not given all they're capable of. Absolutely, you
can demand and get that problem, you know. But uh
so I agree with you. You have to coach effort.
You have to get him out of it, because sometimes
what a guy thinks he's giving, he's got more to give.

(18:29):
But like I said, if if a kid is lazy
and he doesn't understand how to work and he doesn't
have that in him, then that's obviously a lot harder
to coach and get out of him than a guy
who understands how to work. But you just have to
hold him to that every single day. I got to uh,
I got to know uh Bill Evans a little bit

(18:49):
at Idaho State right before you got fired. A couple
of years ago. We were in I was in Cancoon
doing a tournament and he was doing like the JV
tournament at Idaho State. And I watched this and practice
and play, and he was super kind to me. Tell
me what you think of my team? Whatever? He coach
you in Southern Utah, you guys had really good success.
What was he like? Coach Evans was a gentleman. You know.

(19:11):
Coach Evans made no excuses. You know at Southern Utah. Uh,
you know, we had a pretty nice arena, especially for
a school of that that that size and where it's at.
But he was a guy who could get a lot
done with so much less. I mean, think about it, Doug.
We went to the tournament, um, I want to say

(19:34):
two thousand and one. The school has never been there
and since then they haven't been back. I mean, that's
the kind of impact he had. He could whenever you
gave him, he could make the best of it. And
that's you know, that's that's part of being a really
good coach. I mean he was at Ottawa State. Those
were really really really really hard jobs for a lot

(19:57):
of different reasons, and he was able to. I didn't
get the best out of out of both those places,
and eventually sometimes the place just gets you. But he
never made an excuse. He was always consistent, the same
guy every day, and he treated people, uh the right way.
I mean, it didn't matter if you were the janitor

(20:17):
or the president. There was a consistency in terms of
who he was as a human being. You know, just
really really impressive. All right, So you get done playing
and then what was your plan? So you know, I
got done playing and I probably could have you know,
gone over somewhere and made a couple of dollars and
called myself a probe. But I was realistic. I knew

(20:42):
how hard this business is, how hard it is to
get in, and I just knew I wanted to coach,
and I was fortunate enough. Uh, there was a guy
who was an assistant coach for US or Southern Utah
for a year that ended up getting a job at
the Miidji State. So I played three years of stuthn
Utah and read sort of the year so I graduated,

(21:03):
I had tendonitis, bad needs, and uh, you know, he said, today,
let's you can come up here and you know, if
you want to finish your career and just play here,
and you know, maybe you can get into coaching with me.
So I went up there and played one year at
the Middy State. And it's the most northern university in
the United States. Literally, if you can live in the Minsion, Minnesota,
there's nowhere on earth you can't live. You know, forty

(21:25):
below winners, I mean, the lake freezers, over all that stuff.
So I played for him for one year. He offered
me a job. I mean, I remember being in Minnesota
at four and a half scholarships. He's playing me, you know,
ten thousand dollars a year and I'm living in his basement. Um,
and that's how my career got started. And it's been

(21:47):
such a rewarding thing, you know, the god from living
a guy's basement. Remember my dad saying you've got a
college degree, dude, what are you doing? What are you doing?
But that that that beginning to go into a place
like Marquette and then having a chance to get this job. Uh,
there's so much I've taken from that, so much. I've

(22:07):
learned so much. It just makes me so appreciative of
all the opportunities you get. So, Jeff, how do you
say his last name? The coach at MIGI g u
i OT played to Kansas with Larry Brown. Okay, so,
so Jeff, um, what was what was he like as
a coach? Because because I always think and you can

(22:28):
tell me if I'm wrong, it's interesting you said that,
you know, the assistant coach recruited you at at Southern
Utah kind of shaped you in terms of always getting
guys energy. Um, I played for my my first obviously
for my dad, and then my my fresh, my vasty coach,
my fresh years got named Tom McCluskey. He played at
Penn State on Dick Harder. He was. He had some
unbelievable drills. You know, Dick Harter obviously a fanatic. Some

(22:51):
of the stuff I take from him. Then then my
high school, my the JV coach became the high school coach,
and now he's a junior college coach. Any ground and
any ground was great at I don't underneath out of
bounds and some special plays even in a high school,
like we ran really good simple stuff that that all worked.
But it began it kind of um fostered a passion

(23:12):
in me in offensive basketball and in screening and angles
and how and why things work in spacing or whatever. Uh,
what's your take away from guy out in terms of
coaching That that you like, that you that that you remember.
That's awesome, great questions. You know. The thing I got
from him, Doug was, before you can demand from your guys,

(23:37):
they have to know that you love who they are,
not just the jersey, not just because on a given
night they had twenty points. So I like you this night.
You have to pour into him. And if you pour
into them and those kids believe that you sincerely love them.
You're gonna build a trust that regards to what you
do offensively or defensively, there's gonna be greater buying. And

(24:00):
that's the thing I got from him, Like you have
to pour into people. You got a point in their life,
you got a point of their soul. It's got It
can't just be transactional. You know. As a coach, you're
here to transform. And sometimes you're gonna tell them stuff
that they don't want to hear. Sometimes you're gonna be
you're gonna have to be very difficult on them, but
sometimes you're gonna have to put your arm around them
and love them. And that may sound Mickey mouse or whatever,

(24:22):
but that really is the staple now of who I
am and what I believe and what I believe. It takes,
especially in this day and age, to connect with a
kid and to create buy in. So all those things
that we're talking about in terms of basketball, undergrown, underneath,
you know, defense, offensive philosophy, those things work better when

(24:45):
kids knows you care. And that's really what I took
from him. That's a great one. You know, it's one
of things you Eddie setting used to do, or he'd
you every day you come in and you you make
I contact with because we had a we had a
signing sheet. You had to go in make eye contact
with a coach. And we used to think the expression
we used was man, if you fart on campus, they

(25:06):
smell in the office. But they knew who your girlfriend was, right,
they knew your parents, all your situations never and it
was their way of being invested, you know, invested in
your career. All right, From there, you go to Southwest Baptist,
which is in what Bolivar, Missouri? Yeah, that and I
went with the same coach. Okay, so he goes so

(25:27):
he goes what to get closer to home? But is that?
But MIDGI was was D was it D two at
the time? D two? So we went D two the
D two? Why do we go because of the MIDGI state?
We played the league with ten scholarships. We had four
and a half scholarships in that league. We win the
league and Southwest Baptist comes calling for him. It's a

(25:48):
it's a little better job, it's closer to his home.
He's from Kansas, and we go there to take over
that program. So that's why we went there. All right?
What what is what is it like to now, you know,
you gotta start up a program in Missouri. That's that's
D two that you have no connections with. Right at
least she had played there a little bit Warmer, What
was that like? Unbelievable? I mean, we go there and

(26:12):
we take over a program, They're gonna build this new arena,
and you know, they've got all these things kind of going.
We finally have Kim scholarships. But now you're in the
best league in Division two basketball. I mean, it's unbelievable.
It's you know, the guys that are in that league
could play in a lot of places throughout the country.
Most of them are there because they don't have the grades. Well,

(26:33):
we signed a kid, I don't even know if you
will remember this name. There's a uh kid by the
name of Shelton Pace. He played with Kurt Snyder and
Upland High School and and back then, um, you know,
Sheldon was actually the best player on the team. He
didn't have grades how to go, Juco didn't even have
grades in JUCO. We had to help get ineligible just

(26:57):
to be a D two player. So we signed this
hid Shelton Pace, who I'm telling you had he been
in Marquette or Royal and Mermouth, he probably has a
chance to be a legitimate NBA player. His last year
with US, he where we finished. So we took the
job in the second year with Shelton. In his second year,

(27:19):
we finished fifth in the country. He finished his second
to Dee Brown in Illinois for the Bob Couzie Award.
You know, from Southwest Baptist. Again, it was a constant.
It was a remind for me again like you know what,
there's great players everywhere and if you're good, great things

(27:40):
that happened for you. So that experience and going us
out of his practice in two years but in that program,
from from being nowhere to being the fifth rated, fifth
land team in the country, you know that that that
was one of my best moments and experiences you know
in basketball so far. How did you get the north
from there? So after my first year at Southwest Baptist,

(28:06):
I'm on the road and I can't I think it
was in Indianapolis, and I run into Bobby Braswell and
we're talking. I didn't know him, we didn't know me,
but we kind of bumped each other and we're talking,
and uh, we get off the road and right before
school starts, he calls and he has an opening on
his staff. I think, right now, it's almost close to

(28:26):
our August early August, and he called me and he
said to stand, you know I sat with you. Um,
we really don't know each other. I haven't open. I'd
love for you to come to birth Roods. And I'm like,
oh my gosh, you know it's a dream. I I
want to go Division one. I mean, I've been the
D two coach. I've only been coaching for four years.
I can go to North Rids. And then something says
to me, you can't leave here. You can't leave. You

(28:49):
just got here. It's late. It's so late in the year.
This guy's giving you a job. If this was earlier,
you can leave. So I tell Brasles a breast, I
love to come, but I can't this year. I wouldn't
do this to use schools getting ready to start here.
I can't leave him hind and dry. So fast forward
a year. He calls me back and says, listen, I

(29:12):
love how you handle that. I have another opening. I'd
love for you to come. And at that point the
time was right, and I went to Mortorage. Yeah, you
guys had a great year. You're when year there, right,
so we yeah, I get the job. It's um early May,
and we have to sign seven guys from that period

(29:35):
too when school starts seven players. We signed seven guys
and we went on to UH when the big rest
first time in the history of the school. And then
the next year I actually went to Utah on that team. Um.
You know they played Memphis really close in the first
round nt A tournament. Um okay, and what what's what

(29:56):
was Bobby Braswell like as a coach, tremendous, So like
you're asking me where I got from each guy? Bobby
Braswell was the most organized human being I've ever seen
in my life. Literally, I always tell him, even into
this day, I've never met a guy who majors in
the miners. More to the point, like I would come
into his office and you know, bras was very particulous.

(30:18):
He was on top of everything. Doug, you bring the
Scott report, it's neatly done, and you know he would
look over it and he would, you know, serve like
Doug Gottlie uh twenty six points a game, five rebounds,
eight assists, he'll he'll he'll pass by that goaes Hey Johnson, Johnson,
you missed the comma. I'm like, miss the comma? Did

(30:39):
you see the Doug eight? You know you're worried about
the comma. But he was so into the two little things.
You know, uh, when pregame meal comes out the exact
minute where the bus is parked. His whole deal was
we can win forty to fifty percent of our games
just on being organized. And Matt has stuck with me.

(31:01):
You know how organized you have to be in order
to get the best out of your team, your program,
your organization. And I'm so thankful when I stopped, because
that's why brows are so good at Northridge. You know Northwridge,
you don't have a whole lot, but here's the organization.
It was why he was able to be I mean

(31:22):
for the longest time, the longest turnument after American coach
in America that the organizational pieces is what I stole
from brass Um. Okay. So then you go with Jim
Boiling at Utah, now boiling obviously, Okay, how first, how
did you get the job? I've got jobs just you

(31:42):
know again, it's funny, man, when you it's amazing sometimes
when you just work and you put your head down,
good things can happen. That's kind of always been my philosophy.
But I've learned that you have to you have to
network a little more, and I've learned that a little
later in my career. But so I'm at cash State,
the Meetest Hills, and you remember they used to have
all those big I'm working at North Rids that summer. Um.

(32:06):
I'm walking in the door as Jim's coming in. Jim
just got the job, so I've got our North Ride
stuff on and I and I shake his hand. We're
coming in at the same time, and I say, hey, man,
I'm from Salt Lake. Congratulations, you're gonna love that place.
You've got a great program, you're inheriting. The people are awesome.
They love basketball. Really, that's the gist of our conversation.

(32:26):
I go down and sit and we don't talk again. Well,
fast forward a year. My phone rings and it's boiling
and he's already done some background check on me, and
he sits. Then you know, I have a you know,
Marty Wilson has left, He's gone a Pepperdine. I'd like
to talk to you about this job. And I want
you to know, like a year ago, I can tell
you exactly what you were wearing and what you were doing.

(32:51):
He said, you had tackie pants on, you had a
white shirt tucked in. I watched you sit during that
entire event by yourself, took notes. You weren't really talking
to anybody. I was evaluating you and I didn't even
know you. And that really stuck with me. And I've
done some research on you now and this is where
we're at. So let me just think about that. And

(33:11):
I told our guys all the time. Now, you know,
wherever I've been, you never you were always being evaluated.
You know, you don't know who's watching, who's looking. And
I've lived that. I mean, for a guy to for
a year later to tell me the color slacks and
the type of shoes I had on in the polo,
and to tell me what I was doing at this event,
that really stuck with me. And I mean, that's that's

(33:34):
how I got that job. What was boiling? Uh? Like
there there, there's there's a lot to boiling. I liked Jim,
I interacted some, I did some of the games. I mean,
I do know that that that he I was told
he wore some dudes out with the like who had
to collect the cell phones on the road. He was
he was one of the first to collect the cell
phones on the roney. Yeah, yeah, one of us did.

(33:57):
I can't remember who did. But you know, Jim is
one of my best friends in the business. I mean,
we are type. You know, there's been so many times,
even the very coach of the Bulls, he's he'll come
down here before the season and you know, we'll stay
with our staff and talk defense. And I mean he's
a giver that way. I taught people all the time,
like you see him on the sideline, especially in college,

(34:18):
and he he's the most caring human being I've ever
been around. The guy would literally take off his shirt
for you. But you don't really get to you wouldn't
know that unless you get to really know him. But
really really intense. And it's intense that he comes from
his love of the game and his love for his players.
I mean, but he's he was an intense guy. And uh,

(34:41):
the thing I love most about Jim, you know, he
taught me about game prep. You know, he has a
football mindset. How you prep for a game. You know
your offensive package, how you implant, how you implement a
defensive system. I mean it was next level. I mean
our defense. You know when I was there, was was
off the charts. Uh. His terminology, you know, everybody's speaking

(35:02):
the same language. You know, his his basketball I Q um,
it's as good as anybody I've I've been around. Um
And uh yeah, you know Jim, I mean you had
to be tough to play there, and you have to
be tough to play for him, because that's that's really
who he is. You know, it's interesting I did uh

(35:24):
that year, his his third year, I think you're still there.
His third year, you guys were very good, played out
in Hawaii and um, yeah, he struggled. And but your
first game was against Butler. Now this is Butler. The
year after they went to the National champions and they
went again. They went again, They lost to Yukon. They
couldn't couldn't score. And he was like one of the

(35:46):
first ones that says, like, what do you think of Butler?
And I was like, Jim, I think they're like crazy physical.
He's like, listen to me, that's the most physical fucking
team on earth. He goes, they look like look like
choir boys and they hit you like sailors. He's like,
you don't let don't let the don't let the clean cut.

(36:06):
Like you wait, they're gonna kick our ass tomorrow. I
remember he's telling me, you have those quick practices and
meetings whatever. They're gonna kick our Our kids are not
ready for Butler or whatever. And sure enough, and then
I think you guys got your ass kicked by him.
He walks by the table, was like told you. He
goes that, that's one of the toughest teams I've you know,
most physically tough teams I've ever seen. And he goes, you,
you watch, I bet they I bet they go to

(36:29):
He said something flippant, like at the hotel, Like, I
bet they go another final four. They got the championship game.
Good championship game. Um, yeah, he's he's an interesting he's
if there was one thing that could have helped him,
could have could have saved him, you go, like, we
would have done this, It would have ended up better
because it started out hot as can be right. He

(36:51):
replaces Jack o Letty and he's doing great rolling. Um,
if you could have, if you could could have, if
is there a butterfly? If at moment where if we
would have done this, this, this, and this might not
have happened. What would have been Yeah, you know what
I think, you know the thing I've learned from that
experience to be answer you, I mean, there's so many
things you can do better. And much as much as

(37:12):
that sucked, especially it sucked for me because that's home, man,
Like that's home. There there's nothing worse than getting fired
in your hometown. And and that really scarred me for
a long time. It scarred Jim. You know, we we
poured a lot into that place. You know, we could
have done a lot of things better. But but but

(37:33):
the one thing that I would say that we should
have and could have if we could hit rewind, is
we should have found a way to stay old, you know,
like we were rolling the year we won the league,
I think it was. But from that time, that seed
that was the highest seed in the history of the
Mountain West Conference, right, that was back we had I

(37:54):
had I had my brother on a couple of weeks ago,
maybe radio, I'm not sure it was. I think it
was known as pot and he was telling me about
like people forget you go back to two thousand and nine,
two Mountain West never got good Monster League, I mean
Pros after Pros, great coaching. But what we did is
we try. I mean we lost our top seven guys

(38:17):
off that team, right, and we went young. You know,
we went really young, and we were going to try
to build back up. So like when you saw us,
we were a young team. You know, if I could
have gone back, we would have found ways to stay
old and had some older guys waiting that could step
in and play. And we didn't really have that. I

(38:40):
do think had we survived, you know, one more year,
the year they let him go up, we had one
more year, we had a good team coming back and
we were going to have a chance to do it.
But in this day and age, man, you you have
to find ways, especially when at a place like that
where the expectations are so high, You've got to find

(39:00):
ways that to stay old. And uh, we we could
have done that. Uh, I had a lot better. And
you know I think that personal, you know, as an
assistant coach and for him, because Jive is fantastic and
uh he's a terrific basketball coach. Uh. You know, again,
if anybody who's worth the assault and worked their way,

(39:21):
I think you look in word and said, you know
what could have done better? And that's your advice. I
would have given him, not certain something I would have done.
We know, I know, and you think I think, I
think what coaches thinking. You tell me from on, But
coaches think that if they tell the world, hey, we're
super young, that everybody will understand you can't win with
young players. But they just don't. They they're like, well
he's every young, but they but you know, it's like

(39:43):
and in that league, especially any league now, but really
in that league especially because I would say the Mountain
West back then it was transfer central, right, I mean,
like even j J O'Brien, who you guys had, it
was a freshman transfers he goes to Santa Us State.
It was, it became it was a transfers haven. So
if you're playing with true freshman, true sophomores, other teams

(40:04):
have fourth fifth sometimes you know, six year dudes. You know,
you're playing against legit men. They're just better. They're older,
they're bigger, they're better, they're more experienced, and it's really
really hard. Yeah. Part then, yeah, thinking about j j
Olbrian jj Olbriant was a monster that's what I'm saying.
Like that we had in one more year, so we
had Will Kleiberg. I don't know if you on that team.
Williberg left and he went to Iowa State. He was

(40:26):
the best player, like junior college, I think college American. Right. Yeah,
we were just we were just we were we were
young and playing against men and we didn't have time.
And okay, that's on us and on that um. We
could have done a better job for him that way.
So you get fired, you're in your hometown. Uh what happens?

(40:51):
We get fired? And I'm just you know, I just
explained to you how my career was going, right. I
mean it's like you win, you go here and win,
you go here and win, and you get this false
it's like a false cress. You know, you think you're
at the peak, you know what, And I started getting
this single. Oh man, you know what. Look, I mean,

(41:11):
good things just happened. I'm never gonna get fired. I
mean we're good. We just went wherever I go. We win.
It's like, get ready to humble yourself. Bro. Not only
you're gonna get fired, You're gonna get fired in your hometown.
And then you you realize. It was my first wake
up call to the business. Like the minute you get fired,
it's like you have some sort of disease that people

(41:35):
will catch if they talk to you, will come next
to you, and you realize very quickly who's with you?
And I'm amazed during that experience, guys, I've never even
really talked to you know. At that point, I think
that's when the relationship with with your brother and I
started to grow. Like I knew him but didn't like

(41:56):
you start all of a sudden, guys start reaching out
and looking out for you, and so that was interesting.
But I I interviewed for like five or six jobs,
I'm not kidding you, and uh I missed out on
four of them, literally to the head coach's best friend,
or at least that's what I was told every time
I got the call saying no. So I get I

(42:17):
don't know how many knows and I'm on my last leg. Man,
I've got a young kid. Um I think we had
actually had we had two kids at that time. One
was a little baby. They're both babies. Insurance is getting
to run out. I hear that Drake has an opening,
and somebody gets me kind of lined up with Mark Phelps.

(42:37):
So I called Phelps and we're talking and Phelps said, Hey, Stan, listen, man,
I'd like to bring you in, but um, I don't
know if I can. I have another guy i'm bringing
in for an interview. I think I'm set with him.
I'm only going to bring in one. And I'm getting
ready to put down on my phone and something said,
do not let this dude off the phone. This is
it for you, and I just said to him, I said, Mark, listen, man,

(43:00):
if you bring me in, it will be the best
thing you've done in your entire life. I'm just asking
you for a chance. It was literally that, and he said, uh,
I don't know, man, Maybe i'll call you back. Like
two hours lady called me back and said that really
hit me. I want to bring you in. I went
and interviewed with him and got the job. But I

(43:21):
don't know where I would have been had that not happened.
You know, you can get out of his business really quick. Um.
So that was my next step from from Utah to joke.
It's interesting. I had just had a I just texted
a buddy of mine who is on staff with a
major a big school, and they just lost lost a coach,

(43:44):
and I said, who is he bringing in? He's like,
I don't know. I said, is he gonna move you up?
He's like, I don't know. We've asked now, we haven't
really talked about that. And I was like, can I
give you some advice? It's like, sure, My advice is
walking to his up sucking office and tell him, Hey, man,
I want the job. I know how do you work?
I know what you want. I can do it. Just
do it. I don't know if he's gonna do it,
but it's like, you know, it's one of those things. Look,

(44:05):
I've gotten myself. There was one of the three places
I worked where they didn't dig that. But generally, you know,
like sometimes you don't only have to walk to take
the horse to water to make them drink. You actually
have to open their mouth, pour the water and close
their mouth and make them swallow sometimes and they go,
wow that water is this is pretty good? Okay? So
you go and you're you're at Drake the Bulldogs Des Moines, Iowa.

(44:28):
Mark Phelps is the coach. What was he like? Mark
was great? You know, Mark was was great? Mark? Uh,
you know I got there. I think Mark had already
been there three or four years, if I'm not mistaken,
So you've already had a lot of time. And that
that's the other thing. Sometimes, you know, when you're at
a place like you talk and you lose a job,

(44:49):
especially when you're a young guy and you're start, you
don't always go up, so sometimes you're gonna go lateral.
Maybe I can take a step back, or you get
back into a situation where it's not may be the greatest.
And so I'm going to Drake. Mark has already been there.
Mark has done a good job there, And my first
year there, I think outside of that team that went
to the tournament, we set the wind bark. I mean,

(45:11):
I think he was like he won the most games
of any coach at Drake. So we did some great things.
I was there two years, and you know, for for Drake,
we did some great things. But at the end of that,
you know, two years, all of a sudden, now he's
there five or six years, and you know how that goes,
and the a d wants to make a change. Uh

(45:33):
So she she made a change there and I actually
interviewed with her for the job, which was weird enough,
and they ended up hiring Ray Jackaletti and she and
straight enough you were part of the staff to replaced
him at Utah, right, like it's all now we've gotten
then diagram with the circles. By the way, I think

(45:56):
it was your last year you guys played Greg was
at cal I had just moved back out to the
West coast. You played him in the Anaheim Convention Center.
And and and Brett Nelson was on that staff too,
wasn't he? And right it was with us, Yeah, and
we had a we had a nice team, uh really
nice team and a great team coming back and again

(46:18):
they so they made the switch, and you know it's funny.
And so Ray get there and Ray's like, hey, stare
And you know, the one thing I always appreciated about
you was you were so gracious with me after you
guys replaced us. You know, I would tell Ray all
the time, Ray, you left us in great guys. You know,
this thing is on solid ground. And we had a
great starting We had two great starting blocks. But isn't

(46:40):
that amazing? So fast forward how many years now he's
the coach and maybe because of those conversations, he's, hey,
will you stay with me? You know, so I told
Ray I would, but you know, if something came along,
you know, I would have to entertain that. And certainly,
like a week later, you know, her called me and
asked me to go to Arizona. Right, you guys, get

(47:01):
get fired at Drake right here you are. You're the
kiss of death right two straight jobs to strap kidding? Uh?
How did you? How did you end up at Arizona State? Um? So, actually,
you know, like I said, so I knew Ray Ray
and I Ady wants me to stay at Drake. So
I agree to stay. I'm probably whip him for a

(47:23):
week or so and my phone rings, I'll never get it.
A Saturday and I'm in the our facility there Drake
and a tope Syndeck on the other line and he
just has lost Dric to Fullerton and he's like, hey, Stan,
I you know I've got this opening. I would love
for you to come out here and uh, you know,

(47:45):
just visit with me. You know, I'd love for you
to be a part of my staff. And I'm my coach.
I just told these guys are going to stay. And
you know, so the more I thought about him, like
you know what you owe yourself this opportunity. So I
went to Phoenix, of which I knew was a trap
because if I went, it was over. I went and
sat with him and one on the tour of the place,

(48:06):
and and you know, I end up taking a job.
So I'm with Herb at Arizona State. Okay, Now Herb
syndic is it's it's weird, Like he's such a brilliant
guy and brilliant coach. Um, and in spite of his
success at NC State, he was never kind of their guy, right, Um,

(48:29):
he had success in my Ohio before that. He's obviously
now building something. But at Santa Clara you'll have to
compete against him. Um, he's you know Carnegie Mellen, you know,
like super bright, super genius dude. And I believe, like
Rick Pettino almost like idolizes him. Like Rick Pettino who

(48:49):
used to be on his staff, thinks he's just a
brilliant but their styles are so very different. What was
what's syndic? Like he's outstanding, Doug. I mean, for of all,
he is a complete gentleman, you know, I mean I've
not been around um a better person. You know when
you talk about somebody with a pure heart, Uh, somebody

(49:12):
who's in it for all the right reasons. UM, that's HERB.
And you met that with just ultra intelligence, I mean
crazy intelligence, you know, freaky to the point. You know.
Doug Collins and I got really close, and Doug would
come over all the time because he has a home
in Phoenix, and Doug would come my office. And if

(49:33):
you like stand, you've got to get HERB to simplify.
So I would go in there. We're going there like, okay, coach,
you gotta you know the zone offense. I know you
think like that, but let's let's really stify that. He's like, okay,
I can he come back? And it'd be the most
complex thing you've ever seen. And in his mind it

(49:54):
was so simple. But he's just so bright, so intellig
j But he taught me really what it was like
to be a CEO, how you run a program, how
to be efficient with your time. Um, you know, how
to not only coach basketball, but all the other parts

(50:15):
of the program UH that or needed to be addressed
in order UH to achieve great success, whether that's you know,
in the community, organizing the plans or that uh with
your games and your boosters, organizing the plan or that
how you how do you control your messaging? Uh? He
was he was just the next level with that stuff.

(50:37):
But Herb did in the way where you always felt
like you were working with him and not for him. Um,
who is your who is your? Who is the get
that you're most prideful in recruiting in Arizona State? That
I'm most prideful in recruiting. Yeah, like I saw like

(50:59):
like you know when you talked to coaches, coaches, it's
not necessarily the best player, it's just a guy that
you saw that you believed in that You're like, yeah,
I saw this when nobody else did. That's an easy
one for me. We there was a kid. So when
I got the job, you know, we had a heat
Carson and I heard been there for a while and
we needed to really we needed to add to him

(51:20):
and Jordi Vascensky are our big kid in order to
give ourselves a chance to be a tournament team. And
I remember a buddy of mine from D two calling
me and say hey, sending me an email saying there's
this kids to kill mckisick up here, and you know
in in in Washington, and you need to You've gotta

(51:43):
you've gotta look at this kid. So he says in
a highlighting the kids is a freak athlete. Well, you know,
you do your background check and uh, you know as
a high school kid, he had had it, you know,
an issue. Um, he made a he made a bad choice,
but that choice really affected him. I mean he couldn't
go to his his scholarship and a a division at a

(52:07):
Junior college Division one school Juco D one got taken away.
He's got to go to school up in the Northwest,
and uh, you know those schools, they don't have scholarship.
So he's got to get a job. At some point.
He's homeless. And I'm like, you know, what is my
first year here. I don't know if I can bring
this to the table. So I ignore it for a

(52:29):
week and someone was just army. I came back to
and I brought it to herb and we take it
to the A D and he says, you know what,
let's bring him in and let's let's let's see what
he's like. And we bring this kid in Shakil McKissick.
And he's just a beautiful kid, war class athlete, I mean,
could really jump, has all the you know, the talent

(52:49):
is just a little row we add into that mix
and he ends up being, uh, you know, a huge
part of our success. But even greater than that as
a senior year, he's that much better. Now he's overseas
and one of the big leagues over there, making a
lot of money, and his whole life has changed because
of that. Yeah, you know, I'm grateful for that that

(53:12):
I took the chance and I came back and gave
a guy a chance like that, because who knows where
he would have been, you know, had had somebody not
put their neck on the line for him. So that
that's the one guy there that I'm I'm so prideful
and so thankful that we took I say, so, now
you're working for a guy and Herb Syndics. You know,

(53:34):
between Sean Miller like you, you go all around the country.
Herb Syndics got guys that have have worked for him.
So I'm sure now you're thinking, head coach, head coach,
head coach, how did you get to Marquette? So I'm
with her, and then again I'm with her. Hers been
there forever, I think, you know. When I was with her,
we was working for two years. My first year, we

(53:56):
we we get that team back to the tournament. We
kind of third in the Act twelve. We come back
with one of the youngest teams in Fact twelve. The
following year, I think we finished like this. We were
picked ninth. In December, we heard signed an extension. We
get to the n I t and at the end

(54:17):
of the year they decided to make a change. So, uh,
you know, her losing his job b a d there again.
He asked me to stay. He says, hey, whoever I
interviewed with his job, one of the things that we're
going to ask h him and they have to keep you.
And he was a man of his word. He did that.
They actually hired Bobby Hurley, and uh, you know, so

(54:39):
coach Early and I were probably together for two or
three weeks um, but you know, the Marquette thing came along,
and uh, you know my I just I just felt
like it was going to be the best fit for
for my family. And we ended up coming to Marquette.

(55:00):
And and you know, Marquette has been you know, I've
said it it, it's been the icing on the cake
for my career. I mean, so you have been unbelievable.
So people, so is it in the kind of places places?
So all right, so Marcus Howard was going to Arizona State,
then he goes to Marquette, Is that all you Well? Yeah,

(55:23):
I mean we had a tremendous relationship and Marcus and
I you know, really connected when he when he obviously
committed dressed there and then he just had a belief
in me and he came across the country because of
that relationship. Um. And you know, I mean it's amazing
to think the guy from Arizona, how Parentti he was,

(55:47):
was able to skip all those those schools in between
Marquette and and Zona to come here. He Um. He
fascinating kid, right because he's only seventeens freshman year, is
super young and obviously becomes you know, the Big East
all time scoring leader. Um. But I'm just wondering what
it's like to coach a guy who is so tied

(56:09):
to you, right, like he got Woe Joe and you
know O Joe is he's cut from the same cloth,
not just of his parents he's tough dude, but but
of of coach k Um. But when you have a
guy that you're that tied to his assistant coach. Did
he allow you to coach him? Right? Because you're like
in his corner, you're his guy, But he's got a

(56:30):
player like that has to allow themselves to be coached
by everybody, even the guy he's closest to. Did Marcus
allow that? Yeah? Absolutely? And you know what I I
mean with Marcus, I probably you know, I usually coached
the bigs. So even in his time here, Marcus and
I in terms of you know, that type of relationship

(56:50):
on the court, you know, the other guys touched him
and and we're with him, and that was I thought
that was better that way because that allowed other people
have to get closer to him. You know, I'm really
not a guy I don't believe in my recruit. You know,
we have the relationship, but I want everybody to have

(57:10):
the same kind of relationship. And I think Marcus would
tell you even though yeah, you know we we were close. Um,
you know, he shares a very strong relationship with the
rest of our staff, and h he allowed other people
to to to really coach him like he needed to
be coached. All right, You've always hooped wherever you've gone,

(57:31):
still hoops Stale State in shape early on at Marquette.
You guys had just a ridiculous hooping staff right, Oh
my gosh, Doug, I'm talking about some battles man Chris Carroll,
Steve Wozerhowski, Justin Gaine an NC State, Travis er Um,

(57:55):
I mean I'm missing I'm missing Guyton, I mean Bretton Nelson. Uh.
We we had so many dudes that could play. And no,
I mean we played every day for a long time.
We played every day to a hundred, every day to
a hundred. And I'm not talking about your casual knights

(58:16):
picked up every day to a hundred. You don't have
to end down the ball, so if the ball goes
through the net, you just take it out and you go.
And I'm talking about when that thing got to to
the fourth quarter and it was you know, ninety two.
Those games ended up putting another thirty minutes on it
because of the fouls and the physicality. I mean, you

(58:38):
would come home and people your families be like, dude,
are you coaching basketball or you playing? Why are you limping?
Why are you looking like this? But we we had
some heated, heated battles. Okay, so when Wojo did did
he carry over those negative feelings into work. Right. That's
the one thing is like you start playing pickup ball, dude,

(59:00):
you work with and and you play with the same guys,
you're on opposite teams, and you've got really competitive good dudes.
Did would you ever like have a bad day, catch
a bow, not make a shot, get beat, argue with
the call, and then you guys go to practice and
he's in and he's in a shitty mood. No, we
never We never took that. And I'll give everybody that.

(59:22):
I mean, we had some crazy competitive, uh in your
face games, but once we walked out of that door,
it was over. And everybody did a really really good
job of of understanding that. And who was terrific that way? Uh,
there was no heart feelings. Now when we came back
the next day, we may bring that back in, but

(59:44):
that that never went into our daily life and daily
work or anything like that. What separates would you as
a coach? You know, the greatest compliment I can give
him is, you know he brings it every day as
a coach and and and in practice, Like I've not
been around a guy whose energy from the beginning of

(01:00:06):
practice in terms of when the year starts to the end. Literally,
if you walked in and Retten me into our practice
and you didn't you didn't know what time of the the
year was, you would have no idea. You would think
it's the first day of practice. He was terrific that way,
and that's really hard to do. They had that level
of energy and passion every single day. Uh was ultra,

(01:00:30):
ultra impressive. You know, he brought it every single day
in practice. Um, you know, just an impressive, impressive feat
Did you, guys? I guess my only question? Last year
you lost six of your last seven. I I saw you, guys.
I thought you were tremendous team, the Houser Boys, and um,
you know, I I liked you know, THEO John's development

(01:00:51):
as well. You know, everybody only talks about Marcus, but
it was this year's team was surprisingly good and then
again losing six out of seven. Did you did you
leave too much on the practice floor this year? I
think you probably overachieved most of the year and then
people kind of started to figure you out a little bit.
Um but but but why do you think end of
the years struggles Outside of the fact it's a good league,

(01:01:12):
will coach league everybody's playing that league, but struggled two
different years. Yeah, we'll start backwards, you know. I think
this year, I mean we got to a point where
we were really rolling. I think we got to let's say,
like nine foot in the country and we went to
Villa Nova got beat by one, uh, and then came
home and Creighton, you know, was just on a roll

(01:01:34):
and got us uh and we we we got into
a point this year where we really you know, we
had we were struggling to score, you know in some regards,
and then our defense, you know, in those last few
games were not as good. And I mean you look
at those games. Sometimes there's just literally the one possession games.

(01:01:54):
I mean, we lose the one point game at home
to the paul Um oh no polls in the road.
Well yeah, now we lose too Province at home on
uh you know it goes an overtime. You lose a
one point game there. Uh, you lose a one point
game at at at Villanova. So you know, we we

(01:02:14):
had I think our problem this year down the stretch
was finding a consistent second and third guy to to
to really help Marcus. You know, so we really we
we struggled. You know that way. I felt like the
year before, you know, after we lost at Villanova and
such a we had a chance to win the win

(01:02:36):
the regular season title at Villanova last year and you know,
it was the first time in a long time Marquette
had been back in that situation. It was the first
time our guys had been in that situation, and we
didn't handle it well. You know, we took that loss again.
I think it was a one possession game, and we
really let that affect us. Uh, you know, the next

(01:02:59):
couple of games and this gig is good, you do that,
and all of a sudden, now you're second guessing yourself.
You know, we play at home again the last night,
last day of the season against Georgetown because Villa Nova
gotten beat and we had a chance to to beat
Georgetown at home to have a share of the league
title and give Patrick Ewing and their team all the

(01:03:20):
credit done. They played so good. I mean Ken Joe
and I mean they're backcourt McClung. They made everything. I
mean we went back and you watched the film. I
mean they made everythty single shot, tough shots. Uh, we
just got on the you know, on the on the
on the raw end of the deal. But um, I

(01:03:42):
don't know if I attribute that to practice. I think,
you know, war Joe has gotten so much better, you know,
shortening practice and being shot and being Chris. I think
you know, two years ago it was a team that
hadn't been there and got a little tight. I think
this year it was a team when people start to
figure out and they start to take away your second
and third guy, you know, not having enough consists and

(01:04:05):
see that way to to finish our close games like
that fair enough? Um, okay, so you guys, this thing
ends in strange fashion, right like you're in New York
and ready for the Big East Tournament and all of
a sudden it's over. So Marcus Howard's career is over.
Weird fashion. Um, take me through the process, which you know,

(01:04:27):
I think a lot of people thought the l m
U job might come open. It took a couple of
extra days. They did lose. Really three of the three
starters didn't play all years. So some people thought that
that Craig their their A D would maybe retain him
for a year. He decides not to. Um, take me
through the process from your perspective that led you to
get the job. Well, of course, of all, there's a

(01:04:49):
lot of things. And you know all this. You've been
in there as long as anybody. And I tell people
this all the time, and I've been in other jobs, like,
there's so much that goes into getting a job, right, Doug.
I mean, there's so many different factors, and when you're
a candidate, you don't know you can't control it that.
You don't know what alumni will booster or what boost

(01:05:10):
going the shots, what what I mean, what what pressure
there is on the ease president. There's there's so many
moving pieces. Um, So I'm fortunate enough to get it,
but I'm also realistic to know that there are so
many guys that could have that job, so many guys
who are qualified, so many guys who are really good.

(01:05:31):
So it's a humbling feeling and and and I don't think, oh,
look at me, I'm that good. No, there's a lot
of guys that could have I'm very fortunate. You know,
I thought guys all the time, and I said it
to you earlier. I've learned that in this business you
have to put yourself out there a little bit. I've
always been a guy. I'm just gonna put my head
down and work. I'm gonna put my head down and
work that. Those are the guys I grew up around.

(01:05:53):
That's what I was taught. But the last few years
I've been so fortunate I've been invited to different consortium's
coaching deal. There's a deal called the Next Chair, which
replaces you know what used to be Villa six or
whatever that was for you know, whoever they considered to
be some of the higher end assistant coaches or what
have you. So I go to this event last summer

(01:06:15):
in Charlotte and part of the event they do this
deal where you speed date and you know, there's three
different rows and there's coaches on each row and administrators
across you. Well, you never change your role. You're staying there,
but you change seats. You just stay on that and
on my role happened to be correct pitness and we
had a five minute conversation. Again, I'm not sitting there

(01:06:38):
and nobody in the room sitting there going home. The
person I'm talking to, he's gonna have a job. You're
just going through the exercise. And we did that, and
throughout that, you know, the day and a half, I
probably had a chance to spend twenty minutes or twenty
minutes with him total, not thinking that a year from
now he may have an opening and you know your
phone's gonna ring and he wants to talk to you

(01:06:58):
about the job. But that's that's really what happened. So
my that crazy day when they started to shut everything
down and cancel tournament games, and you know, I got
a call that day from a prom saying, hey, they
got you on the list and they'd like to talk
to you. And that's where it started. When did you

(01:07:18):
find out you had When did he tell you you
got the job? So I think it was Friday night,
And again, you know how this goes. It calls me
and I've gotten calls like that, and well you don't
get it, and you know, I picked up, and you
know he's I'm going right there. So we're talking and

(01:07:39):
he's like, uh, you know, we're down to stretch here,
and you know, um, we love them for you to
be our coach. I'm thinking he's trying to let me off,
so you're not even I wasn't ready for that moment.
But even when you accept it, Uh, there's so much
that has to go through. Now your agent gets involved
with the school lawyer and they're they're working out the

(01:07:59):
contract deal. So that that wasn't done until about two
in the morning Saturday morning. That's kind of when it
became official. Um, you know the next day in terms
of the contract. Who's your first call? Well, my dad,
my parents, you know. See see dadd you told me

(01:08:21):
I'm wasting my degree at but Midji State. Now look
at me, Oh, what's funny. You know, it's funny. I
didn't have to do it then because I've been telling
that because my dad he will read up on even
if I'm at market, and I was honesty. It's like
all of a sudden, now, oh you're on the train.
Now he could tell you everybody we're recruiting and what
people are saying. So he's been invested. But my dad,

(01:08:41):
you know, like all of us, and you can attest
to this. You know, they start to get old and
luckily he's uh, he's got good health and my parents
are healthy, thank God. But you know, every time, you know,
he would come and visit me, and he just always say, man,
I just prayed to God, you know I'll be around
to see that day, you know, And I actually get
an emotional thinking about it because you know what, man,

(01:09:03):
we've been through a lot, and uh, I've been through
a lot, and I've watched my dad, uh, you know,
lose his entire life, you know, to a war and
come here and start at the bottom of his company
and and retires as a CEO. So to be able
to share that moment with him, you know that your

(01:09:23):
son is you know, it's gone from the midjiy state
to having a chance to lead a program and you
can experience that. You know, it's It's something I'll never forget. Man,
it was awesome. It's very pretty amazing, um elm used.
An interesting job. It's a beautiful campus. I told Craig,
I said, look like everybody makes this big deal, but Pepperdine.

(01:09:44):
Pepperdine is incredible. But Pepperdine, you can't There's five ten
million dollar houses around, so you're not really interacting. And
there's you know, it's not like whereas playa Like there's
a cool little area where you know your staff can
actually live and walk on the campus or ride a
bike to campus. There's places to get something to eat,
like Malibu's Like, it's just unbelievable, bluff. Have you ever

(01:10:07):
been to campus by the way with this thing good glasses.
So uh, we talked about Loyal Marymount and how they
used to host all these tournaments back in the day.
When I was in Utah, we go there at a
tournaments ghirston watch Games Park, Gross the Street. I te
Ghost and I'm like, does this place you even have
a campus? And I would leave right So I went

(01:10:28):
there a week ago because we have five guys there.
I just want to get in front of them, meet
with them, talking to him, and I got out, but
I went. I went in Rock Campus for the first time,
and I'm going, you have got to be kidding me.
I know it may be one of the most dug
and I'm not saying this for like a recruiting thing

(01:10:50):
right now that you're mong with you the most impressive,
incredible places I've seen. When you get to the bluff
and you're sitting top of l A and the beaches
to your left and in the city see your right,
that's I mean, it blew me away. No, it's unbelofod.

(01:11:11):
It's unbelievable, like like look that that old league, that
whole league, like San Diego. You can see the water
from USD St. Mary's it's like out of a it's
like out of a summer camp book or whatever. It's
a beautiful campus, right, it's got a bunch of but
but little literally nobody knows about. And I think one
reason is because there's one of the entrances. If you're
going to the Hurston the gym, you come in from

(01:11:31):
play you take a right, you park of the gym,
and then you leave. You don't go through campus. But
when you go through campus, like, oh my god, this
is amazing, it's really really amazing. And then I don't
know if you know this, but down just below the
bluff in Playa, you any of the tech companies. YouTube
has got a place there. That's where the Clippers are
building their their new facility. Like you're you're literally you

(01:11:53):
can take a driver, hit it off the bluff and
hit some of the biggest companies from you know, eBay
to Facebook to YouTube. We got a studio over there.
Like it's it's actually in a very very cool up
and coming area and it's like two minutes from the beach,
like it's a and no one knows and no one
and I think a big and no one knows because
they haven't haven't been good. Right, Well, that's that's what

(01:12:16):
we gotta do. You know, we gotta we've gotta get
to the point where people know. And that's you know,
that's one of my biggest jobs. And we've we've got
to do a good job even before we can get
to the ws of of of putting in things in
place where people go from you know, get curious too
interested to commit it. And I'm trying to get people

(01:12:38):
curious and then I want to get them really interested
and I want to get them committed. And that's not
only just players. That's our that's our community, that's our alumni,
that's our university, that's our students. Um, that's that's a
big part of of of this job. And you know,
it's something that I'm really committed in doing because that's
how you build a program. And uh, we gotta get

(01:13:00):
to that point where where people care. Um what it
would just say, because I mean I find Wojoe to
be a phenomenal dude. I know, he promoted Dwayne Killings
Whill he'll be a head coach probably next year. Brett
got a job at holy Cross, which is that he'll
turn that thing is gonna take a while because they're
running Princeton and he wants play the opposite style. But
you know, wo, Joe has got a really good sense
of this thing. What what did he say when you

(01:13:21):
when he told him you're taking the job. Oh he
was happy, you know, I mean, Wolves and I've been together,
you know a long time, you know, five years, and
his business is long. I think he was really happy.
He obviously he understands who I am, knows who I am,
uh understands is a fit. But more importantly, you know,
he understands how hard good jobs already to get. These

(01:13:41):
jobs are hard, so hard to get any jobs alred
to get uh, and to get one that kind of
fits my personality and who I am and a place
that you know, I feel like I can have an
impact on. He was a static for me. Um, I got,
I got two more than I know. You gotta go
out here, I hear from the background. Okay, number one,

(01:14:02):
did did you watch did you watch the documentary the
um what's it called? Scheme? The Scheme? I have not yet.
I know that was on yesterday, but I've been so
tied up, so hopefully tonight, no problem. Here's the question
that matters. I get I get frustrated because people in

(01:14:24):
my business think everybody cheats. Everybody cheats, right, that's what
they say. Everybody cheats. Yeah, what's a big deal. Everybody cheats.
Blah blah blah blah blah blah. You've been a part
of it your entire life since you left to go
to Southern Utah to becoming a coach and obviously now
on the Division one level for close to fifteen years. Right, Um,

(01:14:46):
if somebody says everybody cheats, you're in the business. You've
been a recruiter, you had. You got Marcus Howard to
leave Phoenix at seventeen years old and come to Marquette
because the all time we meaning a scoring leader. Is
that in any way an accurate statement that everybody cheats? No,
absolutely not. I don't believe that. I actually think, Um,
there are a lot more people who do it right

(01:15:07):
than those who don't do it right. And you know,
I've worked for what seven or eight different coaches. I've
been at seven or eight different places, and you know who,
no one who in which I've worked with have ever
functioned that way, No assistant coach that I've ever been
allowed to There are funds in that way so to
make a blanket statement like that, you know, I think

(01:15:29):
is it's um, it couldn't be further from the truth.
You know, we we have there are so many good
people that do it right in our business. But like
anything else, anytime somebody does something wrong, we we tend
to want a group entire population in there. Uh. But

(01:15:49):
that that certainly has not been the case of my
career and what I've seen. Obviously, there are people who
do that. That that's in any business. You know, there's
a lot of businesses what people aren't doing things right,
and that's not in collegion sports. But I wouldn't mischaracterize
everybody in in the banking world or our wall streets

(01:16:10):
has been guys who do it wrong. I think it's unfair. Uh.
We have a lot of good people, and we have
a lot of good people who do it right. And
I've been lucky to just be around those types of people.
I like, I have have two more now, okay, uh
a Stan Johnson coach team, how do you when you
want somebody to walk out of Gherston, which even before
the tournament's just you know that place used to host

(01:16:31):
NBA Summer League, you know, before the Longbie State. It
was at l m U. You know, guys used to
always play pick up all there. That that was because
it's a great location and really nice Jim. But when
somebody walks in and it's gonna be a process, that
league is a bitch because you got going. Zaga buy
used rolling. Now St. Mary's has got it going in
the middle of the league. Between San Francisco and we
talked about Santa Clara like that Pacific and what Damon

(01:16:54):
Stodomer has done, that's a that's a It used to
be everybody fighting for third place. Now it's it's fighting
even lower than that because it's so good. But when
somebody walks in and then walks out of Gherston and
says he just stand Stan Johnson coach, team, what do
you want them to say? Well, there's there's there's a
couple of things. One, I hope people when they see
us they say, well, that's a well conditioned team. I

(01:17:16):
hope they'll say, man, that's a well prepared team. And
I hope they'll say that it is a freaking competitive team.
And the thing I told our guys is we're gonna
do three things outside of that. We're gonna be unselfish.
That means we have gotten over ourselves. That is controllable.
We're gonna be unselfish. When people watch us play, they're

(01:17:37):
gonna see that ball moving, They're gonna see us protecting
each other defensively. We're gonna be a team that's connected again.
We have to do the little things right before we
can get to the big team. The big things. To me,
we can lead the league in high fives and buck slaps,
and people see us, they should see a connected team,
guys that like each other, that care about each other,

(01:17:57):
that look out for each other, and then a relentless man.
I want a team that attacks. I want a team
that puts people on their heels. I want a team
that when you play Loyal and Murmouth, you may beat us,
but even in beating us, we're gonna break you and
get you to the point where, you know what, I
don't want to play them again. That's what I want.

(01:18:18):
And everything I just said to you are things that
we can control. I haven't said anything, but man, we're
gonna bang a bunch of threes and all that. We
want to get to that point. But we have to
master and be good at the little things, dominating the
little things, and controlling the things that we're capable of,
and all six of those things I just mentioned we're

(01:18:39):
capable of regardless of talent. So I hope when people
watch us they can see that. And for me this year,
especially as I try to build this thing and create
it the way I want it, that's what I'm evaluating.
You know. We have to get that right because if
we get that right, we'll get the talent in time,
we'll get the right pieces to play in the right system.
But that culture piece for l MU and that identity piece,

(01:19:04):
that has to be right. Um, as we begin this
thing to go down this road. Uh okay, So this
the coronavirus has canceled the Big East Tournament, which stinks.
Cancel the NT tournament stinks. Right now, we'd all be
getting ready to go to the final four and there'll
be a lot more jobs open. But everybody be hitting
you up like no, no, I got my staff right.
On the other hand, here you're about to move with

(01:19:27):
your family cross country from Milwaukee to UH to Los Angeles. Um,
there's there's gotta be the silver lining has got to be. Normally,
a coach takes his job a and see his wife
and kids for a month. That's not the case. Here,
give me, give me one thing you're doing around the
house outside of trying to build a program off a
cell phone that you never thought you'd be doing this

(01:19:50):
time of year. Now you're gonna give me in trouble
because literally, that's all I've been doing for the most you.
I'm sure you're getting evil. Would you get off the phone?
Oh man, thank you, thanks a lot. That's all right. Listen,
we're all we're all getting it. You're like trying to
work like really, you know, I mean, you know, just

(01:20:10):
just the fact that I could sit here in my
house and start to piece this thing together and you
have your family around, like you said, that would never
have happened. You know, we'd be gone. I mean, my
kids are doing homework. I can see that they're running
around here. They can come in here and listen to
my calls, they can sit on the cows, they can

(01:20:30):
you know, they can feel like they're a part of
what's happening. You know, that's pretty cool because that probably
would not have happened until June, you know, or July,
and then they show up and you're on the road again.
So that's been the cool part to make them feel like,
you know, they're they're a part of what's going on here.
Um as we you know, take this new adventure. Well listen,

(01:20:55):
what they can do is you can all on your
way out of town, take all those jackets, give him
down the good will or just light a match because
it got it got really it gets really cold in
in play a del Rey a couple of times a year,
gets into the forties, maybe high forties or fifties. So
I just, yeah, I hope you hope be prepared for

(01:21:15):
the car. I hope be preparing for the cold coming
from Milwaukee, you know, and uh that that it does,
it gets down to occasionally to the high forties. Well
you do know in Milwaukee when it's forty three people
out playing golf, no question, that's like summer out here. Yeah.
Well listen, Hey, great catching up, congrats, congrats on the gig,
and I look forward when you finally do touchdown in

(01:21:37):
l A again, let's catch up in person. Thanks so
much for joining me. Yes, thanks. Be sure to catch
the live edition of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at
three p m. Easter noon Pacific what a great story
right starts in Liberia and ends in Pla del Ray
at least for now as the head coach of l
m um My. Thanks to Stan Johnson, all of that,

(01:21:59):
all that time, time that he put in to give
us this, uh, this interview. Hope you enjoyed it as well.
Make sure you send it off to a friend, you
tweeted out, you put it on Facebook. This is a
great way to learn from coaches at different levels of
different levels of experience and what they're thinking and guys
they learned from kind of along the way. I appreciate
you downloading, subscribing, and rating this podcast. Make sure you

(01:22:21):
tell a friend about it and uh continue on with us.
Thanks so much. We've got more up coming for you.
I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball

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