Crushing Philly Loss Reaction, Amari Cooper 4th Down Controversy With Cowboys Writer Dave Helman

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby unpack Sunday’s crippling loss to the Eagles. Also, David Helman from DallasCowboys.com stops by with his thoughts on the decision to take Amari Cooper off the field, and where the Cowboys go from here.Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, Boys and girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell. Cowboys Community with the inside
scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to you

(00:22):
from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. We's
joll touchdown. Carter. I don't know what the final score
is gonna be, but I know which team came out
readier to play Prescott to the end. Jolly, he is
broken off. Eagles take over ahead in mind stepping back

(00:44):
up here and getting on a run and vel Um
having some good things happened. This is the disappointing set
back to that localman for all of us. I know
what is for the fans the best way to some
of Week sixteen for the Cowboys Murphy's law. Anything that
can go wrong will, and it did. What a rough
one for the Cowboys, especially coming off a game where

(01:07):
you put up forty four points of total offense against
a Rams team who looked like a legitimate playoff contender
against the forty nine the night before on Saturday. How
did the Cowboys come out and put up that performance
where they didn't score one touchdown against an Eagles team
that was made up with a mash unit. Yeah, I

(01:29):
mean it was. It was like a bunch of guys
who were working at home depot last week who are now,
you know, out there covering thousand yard receivers. I mean
their receivers were you know, former a F players and
things like that, and you end out losing this game.
In the game that, even though it was a one
possession game, is what the final score was. It never

(01:51):
felt close. It felt it felt like from the jump
that they were just they were outmatched, they were outwilled. Um,
it really did. It felt like the most lackadaisical, soft, uninspired,

(02:14):
unmotivated performance they've given all year. Just go ahead and
insert every adjective, and I mean honestly there, because that
was the thing is that it's you know, from a
talent standpoint, there is absolutely no reason why the Eagles
should have beaten you yesterday. The Eagles were missing you know,
half their starters or something. Let's go opening possession, three
and out. They followed that up three and out after

(02:35):
the Eagles had scored their first touchdown of the game.
Field goal, punt, punt, field goal, then we get to
the second quarter, fumble, punt, punt, field goal. It was
now like Dak Prescott didn't have a great game yesterday. Um,
I don't expect And you know, here's the deal. I
don't think anyone expected him to be all world or

(02:58):
hurled the ball around. I'm given the fact that you know, look,
he said that he had played through this a c
joint injury before. He didn't have two days of throwing
practice here at the Star. He admitted after the game
that maybe there was a little rust there as a
result of it. But where were his teammates? I mean
the fact that this guy not only did he play

(03:18):
in this one, but he literally lowered down and took
the boom on in that game. And I just remember going,
oh my gosh, like why put your body on the line.
I and I'll typically I'll watch the game while also
having the radio broadcast on and headphones. And when that
play happened, Babe Laffenburg was, you know, who's the the
obviously former NFL quarterback played for the Cowboys and Redskins,

(03:41):
and uh, he's the color analyst on the Cowboys Radio Nework.
And he said, you know, I don't know if I'm
a coach on the sideline, I may tell him, you know, hey,
good job, good you know, yeah, but let's not do
that again. Let's not lead with your shoulder into a defender,
you know, trying to pick up the first down. But
you know that he told us last week he was
going to be that way. Dax said, he's not going

(04:01):
to think in the game, well, that's my good shoulder,
so let me lead with that one. He's he was
just going to go out there and play, and he
did that. He didn't play great, especially in the second
half the second half. A lot of the first half
was a lot of drops and what seemed like a
lot of issues there. The second half is when the
passes started sandling on him. It seemed like and he was,
he was missing receivers and and so it was. It

(04:23):
was a bad effort pretty much all the way around.
The defense settled in after what was a rough first
couple opening drives, but I mean they put them in
a hole. They put him in a hole that they
had to try and pass out of, and it wasn't working.
On Sunday, and we discussed that Miles Sanders and Greg
Ward Jr. Were the guys to focus on, and they're
the ones. Yeah, that took advantage of your defense. I

(04:47):
thought it was interesting Christoph Shure, you know, pulling Cheetah
out of the game really, which I hadn't seen that
in my time covering the Cowboys. I can't remember the
last time I player was benched. And so you know,
look full disclosure, she does. One of my favorite guys
on the team. I just I think he's got a
spirit about him. Um, I feel like he approaches it

(05:08):
the right way. Does it always translate on the football note?
On the football field note? But here's what he had
to say to me postgame. Who hed apresive new toward
the right specially you got to perform out there. So

(05:28):
and we all believe in Jordan's you believe in believe
in each other. But so I know there were some
people out there that said that they got a different
response from him, and so I think a lot of people,
a lot of people didn't think was satisfactory, right, and
they sort of dismissed it. I looked into this guy's eyes,
I saw him at his locker, message received, and I

(05:49):
just it's it's so and I don't I gotta tell you, Bobby,
I don't even know how to characterize the locker room.
I almost feel like there was a sense of apathy
that it's set in I remember where and this is
the season we always you know, we've compared it to
a lot the two thousand and eight season, when they
were seemingly as talented as ever coming off thirteen and three,
and it was a mess, and it was a chemistry mess.

(06:11):
And there's a big story out of there out of
that season. They lost the season finale to the Eagles.
It was the NFC East Championship game of sorts, and
when they got beat it was like forty four to six.
They're flying back from Philadelphia and uh Mark Friedman Friedo
who was a producer on thirteen time the Ticket the

(06:32):
station here in Dallas on Norm Hitskis show, and Norm
had asked him, you know, what was the mood like
on the plane and he said, honestly, kind of relieved.
The players seemed kind of relieved, and that caused a
big star at the time. I'm not telling any like
secret stories here, that was that was a big story
in Dallas at the time when that happened. Um, but
you know, you kind of do. I obviously didn't cover

(06:55):
that team, but there are times where you kind of
get that same sort of sense, not really leaved that
maybe this is all over, but you do get the
sense that that whole locker room is tired, and not
necessarily physically tired. It's like an emotional tired. They are
they are not equipped to go deep in the playoffs.
It just feels like they've got their feet stuck in mud.

(07:15):
And every time they've gotten a little bit of traction,
it's like they're stepping in a quicksand and and they're
losing their footing again. You know, to your point, I
thought after that game against the Rams, they were going
to catch fire, and what a better team to do
it against. Now, grant, it's gonna be a hostile environment,

(07:35):
but what you know when you look at Carson Wentz
leading the league in fumbles since he hasn't been on
point this year, generated loss of turnovers in October against him,
all of the injuries to both the defensive and offensive
side of the ball, and they still can't get it done.
You know, Dallas Goddard to the one weapon you've got
to focus on. He beat you early and often. Yeah,

(07:58):
and I feel like it's such a it's such a
weird contradiction because they are in some ways. You feel
like if you describe that situation and the way they
came out of the Rams game and what was said
up before him and then they just lose, that would
sound like without seeing the game, that team must have quit.

(08:19):
And you watch them and it didn't feel like quit.
It looked like they were playing hard. It's just there's
something broken here and and I don't know what it is.
And I almost get the sense, you know, going back,
I sort of digressed They're sorry operating only two hours
this morning because I was on a five am flight
back from Philly after getting to bed at you know, eleven,
monitoring the whole plane Debacco when we can get into

(08:41):
that in a little bit. I got the sense, you know,
it's all about the process here, right, You watch the film,
you put the game to bed, you look forward. I
don't feel like sometimes they marinate in the losses, or
they marinate enough in the stinch that was the last game,
and that's where I feel like there was sort of
this apathy that it set in. This is this frustration

(09:02):
with you know, maybe you know everyone starts about their
stiffing thissels. Maybe they're like, we are you know, we
are good football team. Maybe they've convinced themselves. Now it's
not us, his coaching staff. You know, next year we'll
go get him. I really do. I really don't feel
like they're sniffing themselves anymore. I do feel like the
arrogance has pretty much gone. I think they are bruised
at this point. But it does. It does. What's the problem.

(09:25):
And it's so easy to attack Jalen? But why this swipe?
Why the clear eye view post on Twitter? When you're like,
what I respect about Shawn Lee and some of these guys,
they act like they've been there right they Shawn Lee
had another strong game. He didn't have the big splash
plays like he had with the sack and the interception
against the Rams, but he was efficient out there. Go

(09:45):
and look at Jalen's numbers and his tackles for loss.
I think he's got too. It's it's been a seriously
regressed year. He looks more like the version than he
does the version and Version had a lot of problems.
I think that and I and again, I don't want
to unfairly pick on Jalen but it's easy too because

(10:08):
it made him the way he portrays things on Twitter,
even the sense that he deserved a Pro Bowl vote wild.
To me. It's it's almost like perception is not reality
for them. And the one guy when I talked to
in the locker room that just seems to get it
really is Michael Bennett. Yeah. When I have these conversations

(10:29):
with Michael, he's not throwing people under the bus. He's
not He's not dogging anyone in that locker room. In fact,
he was complimentary of the coaching staff. He said he
gets them, They get them ready to go for these games.
He says, it basically comes down to players and then
need to execute all of them. Right. They have a
lot of guys that put their hands up and said

(10:51):
we need to execute. But what I respected about Michael
Bennett was there wasn't a quitting him because he said
he has a champion chip mindset. The guy that was
so down on himself after this game, Michael Gallott, when
I talked to him, he said, he cannot be the
reason they lose a game again. It's embarrassing. He said,

(11:13):
it won't happen again. I honestly wouldn't place much of
that game on Michael Gallup, though I mean that was
a well defended play at the end. I understand he
had the one big drop, but I mean he also
made a number of plays for them yesterday. He had
almost a hundred yards receiving. He was probably their most
reliable target. Hand I can understand what they would go
to women that moment, and so yeah, I don't. And

(11:34):
I get like players are always generally they're super self
critical and and they expect a lot of themselves. He
is one of the most critical of himself to to
an unrealistic extent A lot of times. I think a
lot of these players they hold themselves to a standard
that isn't realistic to always keeping He's probably one of them.

(11:56):
But you know, I think there are lots of other
directions you can look for problems yesterday and problems for
this entire season. Again, I think this entire season comes
down to there's something up with the chemistry. There's something
broken about this chemistry that was working last year. I
should also point out I feel like this sacrilegious going here.

(12:18):
I know some people have gone to say something about
Romo close. We're gonna go here with Jason Witten. If
you look at that final play, Dak's first look Jason Witten,
were they going to try to get the wire option there?
I mean, seriously, how predictable that that's where his eyes
first go, and then he gets it to Michael Gallup

(12:38):
and created they had to be fair. He also, though,
could have been trying to look off a safety, trying
to get a safety to go down and free up
the cover. That's sometimes quarterbacks will do that possibility. But
there was a point in the game too where they
went to Dalton Schultz and Blake Jarwin is shown how
effective he can be when you go to him. I mean,
I just think about the Giants game in weeks what

(12:58):
the final week when the Cowboys or there. I was
there for that game. Three touchdowns. We saw him in
the Giants game this year the season. Yeah, he made
a big play and made a big pack catch against
the Saints that set up their only touchdown that day's
and the biggest, well, the biggest knock when Jason went
was coming back. I was told the coaching staff was
split on it, and that was because they were afraid

(13:19):
that Jason Witten was going to come in here and
he was going to take away plays from the young
guys and stunt their development. That was the biggest knock
on Jason Witten all these years, and when he left,
they didn't have anyone behind him, so I was told
he was going to be used sort of like a
shant Lee in other words, coach up the young guys
behind you, um and be ready if we need you. Okay,

(13:42):
Sean did that admirably, but I thought it was interesting
early in the season when Jason Witten said they're going
to have to basically beat him out to get on
the field, and no one questions the work ethic. He
is as fierce a competitor as exists in that locker.
The guy had a one handed catch behind him against
the ramps, so I don't want to knock him too much.

(14:03):
That's why I cautioned that there was he he had
a bad drop yesterday. He was I don't know that
anybody's gonna, you know, hit knock you too hard for
that one. He's he probably knocking himself beginning. He's got
some low approval ratings right now. I think if there was,
you know, a poll of Cowboys fans, But overall, I mean,

(14:23):
I think the The biggest thing you're seeing right now
just across the board is nobody's there's hardly anybody on
this team right now that's playing up to their pilty,
even when you like, why is that? And that's the
thing is that you just you can't understand where is
this coming from? It's like the million dollar question, Bobby.
I can't tell you how many shows that I've been
asked to go on both NFL network. I did Dan Patrick,

(14:45):
a couple of other places, and you know, they always
want to talk to the reporter that's inside, thinking that
you have the answer. Normally, I feel like I've got
a good sense of things, I've got a pulse on
the situation. I can't get a good answer. I did
get a great example last year. Everybody knew what those
issues were when they were struggling, even even yeah, even
if they didn't want to say it public offense, you

(15:06):
knew it was Lenahan. You knew there were issues with
you know, the receiving corps. You knew they had to
go out and you can always identify, you know, as
much as they didn't want to say it was distracting,
the Zeke stuff was very distracting to them. And it
caused issues. You can always identify what the issue story.
This is the first year where it does kind of
feel like we can't come up with an answer, which
makes it feel like there is going to be an

(15:28):
answer down the road. Bobby. The one thing you can't
say about this offense is that it's been predictable this year. Yeah,
there would have ever predicted fourth and eight. You're gonna
rely on Tavon Austin as a guy to beat your
dbs here to put two tight ends there. But you
have guessed that it didn't feel like a Cowboys mil

(15:48):
And I know everybody's been big on the the Amari
Cooper not being in there, and we'll have Dave Hellman
from Dallas Cowboys dot Com here and stuck, we'll talk
with him about it. But I know that's been the
bigger thing to me. Why is Randall Cobb out there?
Why are you going to to not just let's yeah,
three catches fifty two yards in the final drive. He
was largely responsible for getting you down the field where

(16:09):
you did. The thing that's also funny to me is
that you had a Mary Cooper on the sideline, You
had Randall Cob on the sideline and then you had
Ezekiel Elliott and past protection. Zeke wasn't even running anything
to the flat or do anything. It was Austin and
Gallup and whatever Whitten and Jarwin we're trying to do.
And it's I mean, I mean we've seen swing passes

(16:29):
and things like that to the running back that can
be you know, first downs that they can pick it up.
And they had Zeke and pass protection. They didn't have
Randall Cob out there. Who Randall Cobb his entire career,
his reputation is as a chain mover, as like the
reliable target when you need eight yards, he's going to
run a good slant or you know. And I mean
you you are talking about paying Mary Cooper a lot

(16:51):
of money and you have both of them off the field,
and I mean, that's the thing I wanted to know.
I mean, I know everybody's heard the Mary Cooper was gassed.
That that was, you know, been a big line. That
was something that Garrett said was wild as he said
he wasn't gassed. Yeah, Mary has said he was not.
He says he wasn't gassed. I've asked multiple people. They
say he's healthy, didn't end up on the entry report. Um,

(17:13):
I think it's fair to characterize the response that I
got is he a percent know, but who is this
time of year? Yeah, I think that's fair. I I
do think he also said that they should have had
more go routes. I do think he's a little more
banged up than other people are at this time of year, though,
But I don't think I think any worse than a
Dak Prescott who's throwing with any joint. Yeah, but I
do think I don't think Amari Cooper has played a

(17:36):
pain free game this entire season. But I did think
this was interesting. I reached out to one of my sources.
I was like, all right, what's going on with this team?
I'm trying to figure it out. Here was a response
everything bad scheme, bad coaching, overworked team, which I thought
was fascinating. I don't know if i'd ever say that
I talked to a defensive lineman. This is somebody who's
not on the team anymore. The defensive lineman had told

(17:59):
me that they practice harder. The defense under Rod Mayor
Elli practices harder during the week than any team in
the NFL, and that some guys have felt before like
they're almost a little gasp by game day that that
that the practice regiment is so intense for the defense.

(18:19):
You're telling me that they practice harder than the Patriots
in their defense. It's it's I'm just I'm just telling
you what the player had told me. That was that
was somebody who had some knowledge of what goes on
around the league, and they said that that was an
issue for them. They felt like and that was part
of why they go so heavy on the rotation with
the defensive line, is because guys wouldn't have fresh legs
if they had to play majority of snaps. This was

(18:42):
another interesting thing that strength program. Have you ever seen
a franchise with so many back issues? Start back with Romo,
DeMarcus Ware, Tyrone Smith, Tyrone Crawford, lv E does all
back issues? Is that I mean, el the e's neck,
But I mean unless it's that's a spinal but I mean, yeah,

(19:06):
it's that's something that is worth something, but it is.
I mean and for years, the knock, I mean for
years the knock was soft. Yeah, you've heard about hamstring issues,
soft tissue and red. They haven't really had two Brits credit.
They haven't really had any hamstring issue, by the way,
never really had any hamstring issues in recent years. Yeah. No,

(19:27):
And that's the thing. I think that that's an interesting
criticism because I've never actually heard that on or off
the record. I've never heard that whispered around about the Cowboys.
But I mean it's worth asking about. I guess the
thing like I think we always hear. Yeah, I'm not doubting,
it's just I've I've not heard that before, and it
makes me that nobody's ever thought to ask, how's the
strength program there? But that's what's what's I think, what's

(19:48):
going on with this this year, Bobby. What I've reached
out to people, it has been a collection of issues.
I feel like I've been running down so many things
that have been thrown out as it chains to what's
wrong with this team and how is that possible? Because
when you look at last season and all the optimism
this team had, I mean, they got into the divisional

(20:11):
playoffs and it felt like they were so close. I mean,
we weren't the only ones saying this is a super
Bowl caliber team there anything. But they get into playoffs,
they're gonna get in eight and eight. There's gonna be
teams in other divisions that if one eleven games are
gonna be in the outside looking in, which is a

(20:33):
discussion we can have another day. But to think that
they could then go and hang with the forty Niners
and the Saints when they can't even do it on
the road at Philly against a beat up team, that
is wild to me. And then again, like I said,
they make you feel, they pull you in, they make
you feel like this is a team that's catching fire.

(20:55):
They beat the Ramps and then the Rams turn it
around and go and make the forty niners a average well,
and I mean that's that was sort of the same
thing they did beat the Saints. Yeah. Crazy, No, I mean,
and that's it. Here's the thing. And I've said this before,
and I know there are people who disagree with me,

(21:17):
but I absolutely believe when everything is clicking for all
thirty two teams, if you said all thirty two teams
are gonna go out there and they're gonna play their
best football on both sides of the ball, They're gonna
play their most complete game. I really do think Dallas
beats all but maybe two teams in this league. Like
I think Dallas is that talented when everything's clicking for him,
and that I think that their very best beats the

(21:38):
very best of a lot of other teams. The problem
is that they can't. I would have said that in
years past. I mean when you okay started with Dak Prescott.
Think about what the very best of this team is though.
The very best of this team can hold an offense
without any touchdowns, can hold them under you know, ten points,
can hold them to two arts. The very best of

(22:00):
the offense can throw for four hundred yards, can run
for three d combined yards. They are very, very complete
when they're clicking. It's just it's very difficult to get
them on there. We saw, you know, this same Eagles
team that made them look so bad with six seven
guys that weren't even playing in last game. We saw
them beat him by almost thirty and just man handle
them in every phase of the game. It's it doesn't

(22:22):
make sense. There is a disconnect here. I also think
an underrated storyline was just because Kai for Bath was
executing the kicks doesn't mean special teams was fired on
all cylinders. Look where they were punting the ball. They
cannot Chris Jones Chris Jones has had a bad year.
They they so rarely are able to run kicks out

(22:43):
of the end zone with Pollard and when they do,
Tony Pollard has not been good on kick returns this year.
He doesn't. That's how I feel like you missed Cole
Beasley a little bit well on the punt returns. Yeah,
but I mean even on the pun re turns, you
haven't gotten much from Tavon or Randall Cobb or anything else.
They just they are as just blah, a special teams
unit as you can pretty much be. They have not

(23:04):
been good at all this year. They now they do
have there are a few bright spots on their kick coverage.
Ventil Bryant has been good on kick coverage. You've had C. J.
Goodwin who's been good at that this year. They do
have guys who can get down the field and wrap
up and that's been good. Punk coverage has been good
for the most part, but they've been gashed on kick returns.
At times, they don't get their own kick returns. It's

(23:25):
it's been brutal that I honestly think regardless of who
gets kept around, who's asked to stay. I think Keith
ok Win the special teams coach. I think he's gone.
There's no doubt in my mind that you will have
a new special teams coach next year, because that has
been maybe not waited for importance, has been the worst.
But just on a flat surface, like great and everything equally,

(23:47):
the special teams has are arguably been the worst unit
they have this year, and they took so long to
move on for Brett Maher. So did I and I
but I felt like it came down to him literally saying,
I rest my head on my pillow at night. I'm
just fine. I'm one of the few who understands why
they hung on to Brett mah as long as it

(24:07):
because there there was enlightened me. There was a little bit.
I mean, he he the cannon of a leg that
he has that a lot of people can't. You can
weaponize it there, there are benefits to having that there.
I'm not saying it was right, but I'm saying I
do understand why they did it as long as that
if your team is good enough and it scores, you
don't need to weaponize from sixty sixty eight out. But

(24:29):
I think about who's coaching them, think about the philosophy,
that's coaching them. The philosophy of you tell Jason Garrett
he doesn't have to get ten extra yards in order
to settle to get a tie in the fourth quarter.
Oh wow, that's ten extra yards. I don't have to
get It's a conservative bent on it, but it's it's
one that your coach had, so I understand why they
thought he was such a weapon. I think for all

(24:49):
of the strengths that Jason Garrett has in the department
of keeping the locker room in tack, getting them ready
for the game, in terms of the mental headspace, getting
players to fight for each other and their team, I
think that that was one of his strengths for a
long time. I've never assigned a strength to him as
being a guy that you think is going to out

(25:10):
coach or give you a distinct advantage in a game.
You see other coaches in this league, I would have
said Mike McCarthy over the years. Um, I would say
Kyle Shanahan certainly. I would say even Sean McVeigh, even
though it's kind of been an offer for it and
he looked average against the Cowboys, Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, Hardball,
go down the list those are guys you know, are

(25:30):
gonna have a distinct advantage when they're on the opposing sideline.
I never feel like with Jason Garrett this team has
a distinct advantage. No, and uh, I think the only
time they maybe have. And and with your career on
the line, your season on the line, you signed off
on that final play on the final drive. I think

(25:51):
that's why everyone's so focused and locked in on particular,
I signed off on a lot of things that in
that game that seems surprising. Whether it be the random
you know, we're going to run an option here to
you know, Dak rolling out with his bad shoulder and
then pitching to Tony Pollard on short yard it was.
It was a game filled with bizarre decisions and and

(26:13):
I can't figure it off. That's if that's them being cute,
they think they're getting creative. If that's them trying to
minimize Dak having to overthrow in this game, even though
they were loading the box. I wanted this just it's
just not competence. I wondered if they just didn't And
I know they say this, I know Zeke told you
plays are the same when I go in there. I

(26:34):
wonder if they just didn't trust Tony Pollard to run
inside and so, and they didn't want to go with
a straight pitch. They wanted to do something to keep
the defenders a little box den and pitch and so.
I I wonder if they just didn't feel confident that
he was going to be able to get through Fletcher
Cox and the rest of that big Eagles front on
short yardage. We now welcome in one of my guys.
We've had him on the podcast before and had a

(26:55):
lot of fun with them, and UH, really appreciate you
coming on today because Dave Hellman, Dallas Cowboys dot Com
one of those trapped health hostage on the buses stationary
at the link. I didn't get another bit of insult
to injury Cowboys not able to get out of there
and staff first you guys stuck with them? Was that like, actually,

(27:17):
can I be can I be real? Real? It was
a blessing in disguise for me And that's selfish on
my part. But uh, I hate road games because like
we travel with the teams, so we leave immediately after
the game ends. Um, we don't have WiFi on the
flights home, and first world problems. Oh, it's a total
first world problem. But basically, we like it's hard to

(27:39):
get work done when you're going home from a road game,
Like typically I don't post my stories and my content
until we get back to Dallas after a game. So
when I realized the buses weren't moving, I was like,
oh my god, I might actually be able to knock
out all my writing before we fly and get some
sleep in it. So I literally like, I cranked out
two stories while we were on the bus and did

(27:59):
what I need to do and took a nap. On
the flight home, I was like, this is one of
the best flight homes I can remember. So, yeah, we
were stuck on the bus for a while, but very selfishly,
it worked out well for yours truly, So so it
is it is interesting. So there are a couple of
local media stations that fly on the team charter along
with the players, and I did that when I was

(28:20):
with CBS eleven, And it is interesting because you get
like a four course meal when you're sitting on the plane,
but you're also on that plane with the players. Yeah,
and after a win, like after a loss like that,
after getting stuck at the stadium for an hour and
a half to marinate and linger in the loss. What
was it like, I guess I'm gonna be anticlimactic. It

(28:45):
felt the same. I mean, losses are like black clouds,
like when you when you lose a game like that,
like everything is just muffled, Like it seems like every
conversation is in a whisper or a mutter, and no
buddy's happy. Nobody really wants to like do anything other
than like look ahead and just get through the flight

(29:06):
and get home. And also the team is the team
is in their own quarters, like they're in the back
of the plane and they're doing their own thing. But
just you could hear a pin drop. Honestly, Um, it's
just it's a miserable place to be after a game
like that, really when you look at it, just how
the game itself went, and everybody's doing their second guessing

(29:26):
and you know, talking about should they have run the
ball more early? Should uh DAC have played without the
patent practice reps? Did they quit yeada, yadaa. What it
was just I guess your overall take from the game, Well,
what was the thing that really stood out to you?
Did you see lack of preparation? Did you see just
a team that was better than them. What did you see?
What did you come away with from the game last night? Um?

(29:48):
My two biggest impressions, Well, I guess it all kind
of like rolls into one. My big impression was like
the Eagles were playing like a team that was desperate
to win a game and get to the playoffs. And
it's always tricky questioning heart and motivation, but from the outside,
it didn't look like the Cowboys were playing that way period,
And I don't think that's better encapsulated than the second

(30:09):
half when obviously a Marie Cooper and Randall Colborn' in
on fourth down, but like they were coming in and
out of the game like throughout the second half, like
I'd have to go back and watch, But there was
a stretch where Cooper was at on the sideline for
do you have it written down? You're such a pro?
He was. He was out for like it felt like
five or six plays in a row where he and
like in the press box, people were like, did Cooper

(30:30):
get benched? Cooper got bitched like Tavon's in the game,
And maybe that was just part of their rotation, but
what kind of crappy rotation? Is that. I mean, even
as poorly as a Marie Cooper seemed to be playing,
don't you want your best players in the game with
a chance to get you a win that gets you
into the playoffs? So here was what's so confusing about
all that for me? Cooper after the game says he's

(30:52):
pulled right, yeah, and you almost got the sense that,
you know, he even said we should have been doing
more go routes like he was. He what I like
about a mari and a lot of people don't. I
don't feel like they get the same takeaway. He doesn't
really beat around the bush with you, like there's not
a lot of like conjecture with him. He literally tells you,
very stoically and very matter of fact, here's how I

(31:15):
feel about things. He's almost emotionally under undetached. So I
thought that was interesting. So I thought it was important
to reach out to individuals who may or may not
have had a hand and how this thing went down.
Here's what I was told. They completely disputed the notion
that he was benched. Okay, they said instead they wanted
to give Tavon Austin a shot at the defensive backs

(31:36):
because the Eagles were having a hard time with the
smaller quick guys. For more context on that, they said,
Cooper caught the ball in place fifty eight and fifty nine,
ran a go route on sixty seven route on place
sixty one. He had no gas left on the next
play to run another go route. That's what they wanted there.
Tavon subbed in and they said, if you go back
and you look at the video, he wins the route.

(31:58):
I asked, how's Cooper's health? I was told, but who
is this time of year? Then Jason Garrett has asked
about it. It's the best if we let him explain it.
From what I find through the fan, Why was a
Mari out on the fourth and A a Mari and
UH and Cobb UH. You know the towards the end
of the ball game, we started rotating UH, Tavon Austin
in to the game, particularly when we got into those

(32:19):
situations who are on the ball a lot. The play
that we had called UH for the fourth down play
was one that was we used twelve personnel. We wanted
to win and and Blake to be in there together.
That's why that's why Randall Cobb was out in that situation.
Then we just left. We left avon outside. The matchup

(32:40):
we wanted was the one we got. We wanted MG
on the corner on the left hand side, anticipating getting
that look if they're playing that coverage, and unfortunately we
weren't able to convert to play coach, Is it a
fair criticism to say, we understand the rotation, but with
the game on the line, essentially put the rotation to
the side and have your best receiver out there that

(33:01):
you know, Michael Rvin wouldn't be on the sideline er
and it wouldn't be on the sideline in that moment.
Why not why not put the rotation aside, er in
the back seat that the season maybe on the line,
and get a Mari in there. Yeah, we we certainly
could have done that. Uh. You know, Amar got a
lot of opportunities throughout the ball game, and they did
a pretty good job on him. Tavan got some opportunities. Uh,

(33:21):
he did a pretty good job. Mari came back as
the game went on, did a good job with a
couple of opportunities that he had. So, you know, we
felt good about the guys who were out there, and
unfortunate weren't able to make the play. What's your takeaway
from all of that. I think it's bizarre, That's what
I think. Again, And you know, Tavan did win a
couple of routes and and Dac missed him on what

(33:44):
could have been a touchdown play, Like, none of that
is lost on me. And we've seen him have juice.
We saw the fifty eight touch and I gatst the
rams the week before. Yeah, it's still I don't know.
And Okay, he's not he's not bingched, as in like, okay,
get a Mari off the field. But isn't that a
synonym or a euphemism for benching somebody when you say

(34:05):
it's not working with Coope? Hey came off the field
and put ten on the field, Like, aren't we sort
of saying the same thing unless it is unless it
is gassed, if it's fatigue, I don't know that somebody's
bench for fatigue. All right, Well, the fourth and eight specifically,
you have all three of your time outs, I mean,
And what was interesting about that Jason Garrett saying, because
I love Sean Shreeve, he's done such a good job.

(34:26):
If our fans that listen to us on the national
level don't know who he is. Tune on Arrato dot
com maps must listen when they've got Jerry Jones when
out five through the fan the r J and Shawn
and r J Show show. That was not cool to sewn. Uh.
They asked him about the time outs and they said
the reason why they didn't take a time out was
because they were all on the same page. They agreed

(34:47):
this was they wanted to go with two tight ends.
They to be fair, Michael Gallup had had some pretty
significant catches on that drive. It's it seemed like Gallup.
It has some momentum and if anyone was killing themselves
to that game, it's Gallup. I even talked to him
again this morning, another drop in a crucial moment. I mean,
I talked to him again this morning and he was like,

(35:07):
it can't happen again. I can't cost my team a game.
There's nobody that's that's putting this on himself more than
that guy. But I think, knowing that, do you put
Gallop in that situation or do you put it in
a guy like a Mark Cooper has been the league
as long as you or Randall Cobb Whooff experience. Who

(35:28):
was the guy that moved you down the field on
that drive three catches fifty two yards. I'm right there
with you again, and to really specifically piled that one
down Cob. You know, it's the focus is all on
Cooper because he looked so frustrated at times in that game.
Four catches on twelve targets. Cobb wasn't out there either,
and that's I don't know, there's a million different things
you can second guess. Like I said, Dak missed Tavan

(35:50):
on what could have been a touchdown, Gallop dropped another
go ball down the sideline. But it's just so weird
to me that, like Cooper runs a go and then
he just walks back to the sideline and they're like, okay,
we'll just we'll twelve personnel without Cooper or Cobb. If
you're on the same page that that's your best bet,

(36:11):
that's fine, But like it seems silly to me, just strange.
Michael Gilk in Dallas Morning News. Cooper played forty six
of the sixty two offensive snaps, third most among the
Cowboys wide receivers, and again he said he wasn't limited
by injury. He even said he wasn't fatigued even though,
that's what I was told. Gallup fifty six, snaps, cobt Cooper, Tavon,

(36:35):
Austin sixty and they even got Ventel Brian in there too.
Oh that's the like. I So we go down we
shoot postgame videos for DC dot Com on the sideline
right after the game. So we go down early, and
so I was standing there and yeah, like they're driving
the field with Tavan and Ventel Bryant like on this
do or die possession, and a whole bunch of Eagles
fans were yelling at me like big deal to Eagles,

(36:58):
like they're so injured, like nobody wants to hear about injuries.
And I'm like, that's the point. Nobody's hurt. That's just
who the Cowboys want to have in the game right now.
They wanted eighty three and and ten, They wanted Tavan
and Bryant when they could have had Cooper, Gallup, Cob
like all these guys. And that's Amari Cooper walked right
past me after the incomplete go route on third and eight,

(37:19):
Like he just walked right past me to the sideline.
I'm sure he's tired in the sense that all football
players are tired, but like, so you saw him, like, yeah,
he was. He didn't look like so. I mean, he
didn't need oxygen. He looked like he could probably run
another route to me again, especially one final one. Right,
it's it's dangerous territory when you're eyeball testing like how

(37:40):
somebody else feels. But it it looked strange to me,
and I was just like, this is this is bizarre.
I don't know any other way to say it. One
of the things that was mainly a fan thing. I
don't think there were a lot of analysts that were
saying it. But I'm curious for your take on this
because I completely reject the idea that Cooper had plays

(38:01):
with quit. I think it's just his demeanor. I think
he is the way that he is, and it's it's
the way he approaches the game. But there seemed to
be a lot of chatter yesterday that Amari Cooper has
quit in this football game. Do you think that's fair? No,
I quit is harsh, But I think I think he
I do think he's worn out. I think he I
think he's experiencing the end of the season, is frustrated.
I think he's been hurt since Week one, and he's hurt.

(38:24):
I think it's just catching up and he's tired. I
think I think he he reminds it when we talked
last week about Zeke, how Zeke looked at the end
of last year, how worn out he looks. He looks
like Zeke looked at the end of last year. To me,
see if you agree with this helment. I feel like
Mari is a sharp cat. He's a smart guy and
if you listen to him when he talked like I've
always joked that he reminds me of Jordan's speed walking

(38:44):
you through, like what he did on the back nine.
He can tell you everything that happened and the way
he breaks down that game. He's one of the smartest
receivers I've ever interviewed. I feel like he really questions
the play callings sometimes and while on the road it
looks like he disappears. I'm wondering if he's frustrated with
some of that. I mean, and that's where we see

(39:04):
some of this. I don't think he will, he wears.
I don't think he hides the frustration well, Bingo, I'm
I'm completely with you and like quit is harsh, Yeah,
but I don't think that. I don't think the quick
thing was fair. I thought that was an unfair criticism,
I think, but I think he gets in his head.
It's like when things aren't going well, which they haven't
gone well on the road often this year, and the

(39:25):
like again, quit is harsh, but you go back to
the to the Jets gate, would you compare it to like, um,
how people have always made that criticism of Odell Beckham.
Odell Beckham gets distracted and frustrated by things and then
it affects his play, and it looks like would it
be similar? Though in terms of frustration in his place,
Odell reminds me a lot of Dez if we take
that back, just like his heart's in the right place,
but he doesn't always handy. Yeah, I don't mean. I

(39:47):
don't mean expressing it the same way. I just mean
in terms of that things not going the way he
wants will affect the way he's playing, even if it's
expressed in a different way. I think, honestly, I think
that is just wide received vers in general, because it
is like the only position in football where how well
you play is completely predicated on about eighteen other factors.

(40:09):
So Dak looked off last night, Like, I mean he
there were a lot of drop balls, but he threw
some bad passes. He didn't look himself the play calling.
Amari did us the favor of just calling out the
play calling on his own, like we don't even have
to guess that. He was just like, which is which
is the second? That's the second time he's done that
about a month. Is he not afraid to do that?
He did during the practice week about a month ago.

(40:30):
This is the same guy. Was it last year where
he said that he shook off Dak Prescott in a
particular play call and said the Eagles against just like, no,
we need to do this, and then Dak eventually relented
and did it. I think there's more to that then
I think quit. He's not MARII Cooper has never struck
me as a guy that quit. I think he takes
a lot of pride in his game. We talked once

(40:52):
about the wide receiver position and he says he's been
playing it since Pop Warren. You know some guys play
defected back and wide receiver. He said he has always
played that position and the reason why he's such a
smooth route runner. But I sometimes wonder if him and
Sanjay Lal are always on the same page, because we've
heard about sometimes where he talks about, well, he wants
to know the why, and so he asked the why

(41:13):
a lot. And then when you kind of talk to
Sanjay about Amory, he kind of always sort of laughs
and he's like, yeah, he wants to know the why.
And A Maris even said to me in the past,
and if I don't like the play, I won't run it.
And so when I think maybe this is you know,
I don't like conspiracy theories. I'm not saying these two
aren't on the same page, but I think you do
have a player that perhaps isn't I feel like maybe

(41:37):
he's underwhelmed with some of the play calls that they've
had in games. And it's easy to knock a Maori
because you look at his stat line you're like, well,
you can't question the play calling. Look at look at
the box score at the end of the game. But
I think if you really got a Marie to sit
down and talk to him, I have to wonder how
far away I am from on just some of this.

(41:57):
I'm I'm right there with you all I mean, but
there's always enough accountability to go around, right. I mean
Smari didn't make plays on some balls he should have. Uh,
he didn't. He didn't look all the way dialed into
me just from from the outside of perspective, he didn't
look all the way there, which again, you know it's
it was almost fortuitous. Is on Thursday, We're like, do

(42:20):
they need to be looking to get you the ball
quickly to get you involved? And that didn't happen. Like
I wonder, you know, if he's got three catches for
thirty yards, like within the first two or three possessions
of the game, Like, how does that change the way
he plays? Because I do think that's a factor. I
really do. Is like you know, how how quickly can
you kind of build some momentum or are you sitting

(42:40):
there nearing halftime and you're like, well here, I mean
here I am again on the road, struggling again, like
this is just what happens, and all of a sudden
you're just deep in that like well of frustration and
you can't get out of it. Do you remember when
you talk to him or after? It was either after
one of the games, it was leading up to it
may been leading up to the New England and and
you talked about teams taking him away and he said
he doesn't mind being taken away if that opens up

(43:03):
opportunities for Gallop, Cob and other people. I think that
if it translates to a win, I think that's the thing.
I think where the frustration lies for Mari is I'm
fine not getting my touch is not running the things
I want to run. If other people are getting there's
and we're winning football games, it's when they're losing and
they're struggling that I think that's when it sets in
as like I could be helping more if you'd let

(43:23):
me run what I want to run. Also, guys, let's
talk about how banged up this Philly secondary was. I mean,
I had the whole roster. I always try to get
plenty of perspective, which last night I was blowing people
up at you know, eleven o'clock, one o'clock in the morning, saying,
go look at the take give me your thoughts. And
the overwhelming sentiment I got was this was a Swiss
cheese secondary. And the fact that this team couldn't capitalize

(43:47):
on the response I kept getting, Well, they were loading
the box against Doc. I mean Zeke. They've done that
in years past, and DA's taken advantage of that at
times this year's and it wasn't yesterday. I do think that.
Think how many times they've loaded the box since j
has been here. You always know that the Cowboys in
the past, we're going to run the ball. Why is
that not an area that they can overcome this year?

(44:09):
I thought what Trent Dilford said on the fan to
to Shawn and rch a few weeks ago was interesting
how Kellen Moore being the quarterback, John Kitna being the quarterback,
they know so much about the passing game that the
emphasis and the play calling has gone more towards the past.
If you look at Lenahan, the big knock was he
never got the passing game involved. This year, it feels
like you've moved away from the passing game, I mean

(44:30):
away from the running game. You're focusing more on the
passing game. Sorry, Bob, you go ahead. I disagree with that,
I guess just in the sense of, like, I think
that's smart football, like go back to the go back
to the Vikings game, Like I mean, you can run
and head first into a brick wall if you really
want to, like if that's what you want to do,
you can. But the Eagles were very committed to stopping it.

(44:53):
They said after the game, you know, they felt embarrassed
by what happened, and you know in October and they
wanted to rectify that. They it was Brandon Graham that
was like, we didn't want Zeke to be doing this
little eat motion or whatever. And that's fine if you
want to take that away the Eagles. This is great.
I love pulling. You know, people roll their eyes in
fantasy football, but this is very telling in my opinion.

(45:14):
The Eagles secondary gave up the second most points fantasy
points in the league two boundary receivers. Like outside the numbers.
They couldn't stop a nosebleed all year, and so smart
football is to say, fine, load up and stop the run.
Let's just feast on these cornerbacks. And the Cowboys couldn't
do it. And that's what Gary Brown told me. When
I asked him, I said, why did you guys not
run more? He said, we thought we could capitalize on

(45:36):
their passing defense. Well, they did a bad job of that.
Here's what I look at, and I don't want to
speak for you guys. I'll let you guess, chairman if
you up. But this is a a pretty intense assessment.
So I don't want to speak for anybody here. But
when you look at I tweeted this last night that
this is a team that's been largely one of the
healthiest teams in the NFL overall this year. They really

(45:58):
have a lot Layton Vanderess was big law, but I
mean otherwise they've been pretty healthy this season. Um, you
look at they had a top ten defense last year.
They returned just about everybody from it. Um you look
over the fact that they've got a plus eighty two
point differential. Teams with point differentials that high this late
in the season are not seven and eight. They're usually
ten and five or something like that. So you look

(46:20):
at all these things and they're sitting at seven and eight.
I don't think anybody's overrated the talent. I think they're
incredibly talented. They're one of the top offenses running and
passing the ball when all of this is going on.
And I don't know if it's on the coaching staff,
it's in the locker room, but I feel like it's something,
well know, post season or after the season's over. There's
cancer somewhere, whether it's chemistry is broken. People aren't getting along.

(46:42):
And I'm not saying people aren't get along, but I'm
saying that generally, when you see a team struggling like this,
there's something not right inside the doors of the locker room.
I don't know how you can come to any other conclusion, honestly.
I mean, yeah, we don't have to lay it all
back out on the table. But four thousand yard pass
or two one thousand yard receivers, thousand yard rusher, uh,
three linemen going to the Pro Bowl and maybe the

(47:04):
maybe they're not playing at the all world level that
we're used to, still better than most NFL O lines. Uh.
All Pro pass rusher to all pro pass rushers if
you count Robert Quinn. Uh. And you're I mean, yeah,
laun Michael Bennett. Sure, Layton vander esh is a loss,
but I guarantee you you're absolutely right if I went
and ran the numbers on it. The Cowboys have had

(47:26):
extraordinarily good luck in terms of like having their key
players be available and to have Shawn Lee that can
seamlessly jump in, who's played great seventeen tackles yesterday against
the eye there weren't he splash place? But I thought
he played effectively something. Something's not right with this team
and Jason Garrett that's always been where he won. Is

(47:48):
like managing all that again, you know, Monday to Saturday.
That's where Jason Garrett was a good coach. And I
think it became it became too much for him this season.
That that is the only logical conclusion I can come too,
because I don't buy that this team is not talented.
This is what I think you need to throw in
that observation you had at practice, which one remember when
you went out there and you heard Jason Garrett that

(48:08):
was interesting? Were you? I know you're out there practice,
but everybody had started focusing on doc here on Wednesday?
This is last Wednesday. Um, did you happen to hear
what Jason yelled out at the coaching staff while he
was with the defense on this side? I did not.
You're so much better at picking up I just I
was not looking. I just happened to hear Jason. They're
going through drills. He's he's talking a lot more than

(48:29):
I normally hear him talking. And he goes, come on,
you guys, I can't be the only one coaching out here.
M M. That's not what you want to hear. And
and it's interesting, but I mean it is. I think
that it's time for Jason Garrett to go. I think
that's probably fair. But I think that there are problems
with this team right now that just replacing Jason Garrett
isn't gonna fix well. And here's two other things. When

(48:52):
I listened to that one oh five three the fan
uh call with Jason Garrett, which again I maintained, why
did they put him on Monday? After these It's like
he continues to dig a hole and I feel like
he makes situations and who wouldn't When you're operating on
X amount of sleep, you know, you're coming off another
loss and you're looking at like, what's my future looking like?

(49:12):
So I know what it's like to jump on life
Radio as to you after some of this and try
and like download everything that happened in the course of
a game. Oh my honor. I hope this comes out well,
because like the worst stuff I do in any given
week is like the first thing after a game. Yeah,
it's just it's just a lot too download. It's interesting
what you say about Jason of this year because that
seems to have increased this year, those sort of things

(49:32):
that makes me wonder if his guards down more this
year because he kind of senses it's the end and
he's not feeling the need to fight it as much anymore.
So when he went on the radio, not only did
and I think a lot of people read into this,
and I think there's something to be read. I mean,
obviously you have to answer the question. Sean asked him.
You know, can you who makes the decisions on on

(49:53):
the play calling and who makes the decisions on the
rotation Kellen Moore bus comes away, so the lot rotation
because and then as they're departing, Sean Sharif said this
to Jason Garrett, Well, Jason will end up with this.
I do want to say this to you because you're
the one who has to answer for it. I don't
think it's, you know, all on you to have guys

(50:14):
ready to play with the NFC East title on the line.
We don't think that they came out with that spirit,
not the right type of kind of guy stuff we
always talk about, So that to me, is not on you.
And I hope that I hope that they do still
have a belief for this final game, because I think
they've let you down a little bit in that regard.
So I wanted to say that to you even though
I know you believe in them, but I know you're

(50:35):
disappointed like the rest of us with yesterday. Well, I
appreciate it, guys, and I hope you guys have a
merry Christmas and uh, we'll get a chance. With the
no answer from Jason Garrett, that was a moment for
Jason say hey, guys, look, my team's got a lot
of heart. I appreciate the sentiment, but I think you're
a little off here. Instead it was like this no answer,

(50:55):
great talking you guys, gotta go by. I'll tell you
what stood out to me two weeks ago. You remember
when he got asked about Aaron Donald and he did
his normal been a great player for a long time,
like he does. But then he went on about a
minute and a half, unusual for him, breaking down what
makes him a great player. And I remember it stood
out to me like that's odd that doesn't see it.
Almost again, I'm the conspiracy one, and you know that

(51:17):
it did make me feel kind of like, is he
just playing things? A little differently now because he doesn't
think he's going to be standing at this podium next year. Anyway.
I think he's accepted where it is. We all know
Jason Garrett smart, and I don't think Jason Garrett's dumb
enough to think that he's got a likelihood of being
back next year. Do you want to come back? No,
I don't think it's gotten Orlando Scandrick said that to

(51:37):
us last week. He said, you know, not just from
the Cowboys perspective. I think Jason's probably getting tired, and
Jason probably realizes it's getting close. This has been a
hard season. They find new ways to blow me away,
because I really I didn't think a season could be
more exhausting than I think it's worse. I think it's worse,

(51:59):
and three season the not only that, but like had
all this stuff that contributed to it. You're like, well,
of course this season has been tough. Zeke has been suspended,
and they're like the federal court circuits involved, and you know,
the team lost a hundred to three when Tyrn and
Shawn Lee were heard and there's all these factors contributing

(52:20):
to why they weren't playing. He said, goodbye to Tony Romo,
and everyone was second guessing that, uh, what has like
what again? Today? Don't have anything to point to what
has been the drama. I mean, I'm sure there's drama
inside the locker room. There always is in the course
of a given season, especially when things aren't going well.
But like nobody's suspended. There hasn't really been much in
the way of like legal trouble Antoine Woods got arrested,

(52:43):
but whatever, Like it hasn't been There hasn't been this
like saga. You haven't had the Travis Frederick out for
the year. You haven't lost this starter to crazy injury.
Nobody suspended, You don't have to the Cole Beasley calling
out you're one of your coaches very publicly. How about
you know two thousand and eight, I'll never forget, you know,
it was coming off a really great year and like
it was one thing after another, like it was pac

(53:04):
Man getting this. This feels very two thousand eight outside
of the off the field. But that's the thing though,
But that was everything in a way. There was like
one story after another that was kind of getting in
their way of like being successful. This is just they
aren't playing good football. That's the only thing and that's
all it is. And the hardest part, Helmet, is you
felt so close going into this season. Don't you feel

(53:26):
so far away now? When they walk away from this
is the coaching staff canna immediately that they've got to
make chemistry changes. I don't know that. I think they're
far away. I mean there's so much empowered some of
the wrong guys in the locker around that I think
is a fair statement. That's fair, And I mean, you
know it's ironic because like last time I came on

(53:46):
with you all was probably a month ago, and we
were already talking potential coaching change and we were kind
of like, oh maybe, or it's sort of looking that way,
like I can't imagine a scenario where that doesn't happen.
And I I mean, who's to say, but like, the
right Higher can do a lot to fix some of
that stuff. I think they're right higher. Just before we

(54:07):
let you go because we know you gotta run. Um.
I also know your Mr Draft you're big another draft. Um.
Look at one of the benchings that happened yesterday that
they said definitely was a benching was Cheeto, which what
a weird time to finally hold somebody accountable. But see,
I actually I agree with like I have gotten a reputation.
I defend Cheeto a lot, maybe past the point of reason,

(54:29):
because like he's a nice guy, but not like his
his coverage is usually not awful, like he doesn't play
the ball, he plays the man and guys always seem
to catch it. But like it's not like he's burnt toast,
like he's always right there. It's always like a tough
look like maybe next time. But then in that game yesterday,
like I think it was Miles Sanders, like he bounced

(54:51):
outside and Cheeto just stared at him, like he kind
of stutter stepped and just stared at him, and he
winds up making the tackle about six yards further down
field then he should have. And like if I who
have never played football pass like sophomore year in high school,
can see that, obviously, Christopher Shard's going to see it.
And I was like, well, yeah, that makes sense because
I can't question your effort on your coverage even if

(55:13):
you give up the completion. I can question your effort
when you stare down a ball carrier for about three
seconds before you make it. Well, and he answered that,
he said, Chris Rashard preaches aggressive tackling. It didn't happen.
So you put in Jordan Lewis and he ended up
coming back in. But as much as people are characterizing that,
he dismissed that, to me, he really received the message
and took ownership so well, honestly, after that drive, you know,

(55:35):
they looked atrocious on the first touchdown drive, the Dallas
Goddard touchdown drive, and they kind of settled in. They
settled in, but they also lost a lot of players,
So Cheeto benched. Jordan Lewis doesn't hit the height requirements.
Byron Jones is out of here in free agency, I
think everybody feels like that's gonna happen. So when we
look to April, are we now settling him pretty comfortably
to the first pick the Cowboys have as going to

(55:55):
be a cornerback. Jordan Lewis doesn't meet the height requirements
of this region. Yes, well there is that, no I mean,
but but even still, you're gonna be down. You could
potentially be down two quarters if you've ran out you're
going with this. White people are down to Jordan Lewis.
I think people love Jordan's no. My point is the
Cowboys liked Jay Lou enough to draft him in the

(56:16):
top one hundred before. I just think it's a regime thing.
I don't think people are down. I think they don't
don't know who's going to be coaching this defense. But
regardless of who's coaching, are we likely looking at the
corners the top heading into April? I it's up there.
It's hard. It's hard to do that until you see
exactly what's going to happen. And for that matter, it
seems likely that Byron is not long for this team.

(56:38):
But can you guarantee that right now? I can't guarantee.
I didn't think Terence Williams would resign here, And I
just want to say, by the way they have they
could have two tags to use as well, so a
tag could be part of it too. Jeff Heath redemption here.
He's him and Michael Bennett get my m VP candidates
on defense like the hardest playing guys. I mean he
came back in there after Jack and the shoulder up again.

(56:59):
I actually I mean no, I think the world of Jeff,
but I think I mean, I would have to give
some recognition to Buyron honestly, to not have an off
season and not have a training camp. You just never
hear Byron's name, and it's part because just plays aren't
made against him, and he doesn't talk much during the
week exactly. No, like he's just quietly over there handling
his business like he'll get a big contract that he

(57:21):
does not get takeaways, and that is a valid criticism
of an all pro corner. But he did. I mean,
he handled his business all year like I thought. He
handled his side of the field. He played defense on
zach Ertz last night. He made a great pass breakup. Um,
I'm curious to see what happens with that. But to
your point, yeah, I mean Cheeto, even however you feel

(57:41):
about Cheto, he's got one year left on his deal.
Jordan to Anthony Brown's a free agent, Iron could be
a free agent. I don't know what they're gonna do there.
So cornerback jumps out to me, Uh, defensive tackle and
safety are still needs, which is kind of hilarious since
that was the big needs last year. And then probably
tight end's yeah, which you know we'll get it. Have

(58:02):
a perfectly capable tight end on their roster. They just
choose not to go to him. No, they I mean
Blake Jarwin, he has proven himself to be a good player,
but they could do more there. I mean, look at
the Eagles. The Eagles have two really good ones and help.
I mean, there's literally so much I could unload on
this podcast today, and like it's so much time. It's
one of those things where so much was wrong and

(58:25):
bad that it's hard to even know where to start.
Before we did. It just feel like they were trying
to get cute yesterday. Like I feel like they were
trying to get cute, like they were trying to get creative,
like that fourth and eight creative Dalton Schulton stead a
Blake Jarwin creative speed option on what was the third
and short when? Yeah, I mean that was I just
felt like they were soft yesterday. That's as soft was

(58:47):
the word that came to mind. I felt, you know,
Jason Garrett's whole, like his whole mantra going all the
way back, even in the good years, was like fight,
We're gonna scratch and claw and do what it takes.
And the Eagles looked like that yesterday. The Cowboys did
not Hellman from Dallas Cowboys Dot com Thank you so
much for joining us. And on the next pod, we'll
look ahead to this next one. We talked about this

(59:07):
Philly game being a big one. This one is a
big one for the Cowboys, but the Cowboys are gonna
be focused on on their game, but also that game
on Sunday at the exact same time because this game
was flexed Giants Philly. Daniel Jones back in the mix
for this one. Um for the Giants, Danny Dimes, who
was enjoying flip cup action with Eli Manning the video

(59:27):
that I've played about a million times. You know what,
they took the Eagles to overtime a couple of weeks ago.
Maybe we can hope for something like that again now
we do. Also the Cowboys if they lose this game.
I was looking at this earlier. I know we're talking
about it. If they lose this game against the Redskins
and they do miss the playoffs, then I think they
can pick as high as eleventh, which would be really

(59:48):
fun come draft time. You could actually like start they've
been in the they've been in the low twenties the
last couple of years. Yeah, they've been picking around like
eighteen or twenty or whatever like last year they didn't
even have a first round pick. So I mean, you
look at they picked Tristan Hill fifty eighth overall, who,
by the way, was game day inactive once again on Sunday. Uh,
you could have two picks, potentially made twenty picks before

(01:00:12):
fifty eight where you picked last year. So let's try
some sunshiny optimism. But I know, uh, Cowboys fans are
struggling with that right now. But on Thursday, when we
record the next one, we will get a chance to
talk JP Finley from NBC Sports Washington, their Redskins insider.
He will join us and uh that game a little
bit well, and we'll be talking about the fact that

(01:00:32):
Cowboys are not going to be facing Dwayne Haskins he's
now out for the season. Instead they get case Keenum.
Does that impact the likelihood of a win? Does it decrease?
And then Bill Callahan coming back is the head coach.
I think it's fascinating, It's gonna be fun. There's a
there's a lot of storylines here, and we'll be talking
about all of them on our our road cast pro
which our friends at road so generously provided us with.

(01:00:56):
If you're looking to take your podcast but i'll lovely
should check it out