Defergate; Rams Blowout Takeaways; New Kicking Issues; Cowboys Insider Mike Fisher on if Garrett's Still Gone

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby try to figure out what clicked so well for the Cowboys in their blowout win over the Rams. Also, Mike Fisher from 105.3 The Fan in Dallas stops by to talk about whether or not Jason Garrett can salvage his job with the Cowboys. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, Boys and girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys, NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell, a Cowboys community with the
inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to
you from the lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby.

(00:27):
It is hands Dallas to deferm. You want to kick
for the second half? No, no no, no, you don't want
to kick? Do you want to defer? Which which go? Defend?
This is very good. Do you think he got that mad?
Because if they say kicked, I think I'm trying to listen.
If they say kicks in the Rams would have their option,

(00:49):
it would in the second half. But I don't know.
I didn't I couldn't hear so well he said said
we want to kick, Doc said we want to kick,
and then that technically that's all that was said. Technically
but not a technicality. This is all would happened. The
Ramps will get their choice in the second Well, Bobby,
we've done how many podcasts now? In this three game

(01:11):
Losing Streaks six, we have focused on a team that
couldn't beat a winning opponent, a team that struggled miscommunication,
a team that couldn't get on the same page and
play complimentary football. And after that start to the game,
the miscommunication, which is the craziest thing that I've ever witnessed,

(01:33):
or waited for the league to make a decision or
the Cowboys to communicate that to the league. We literally
went into be half not knowing who was going to
receive the ball. It was fun I had. I was
over talking to our friend R. J. O Choa from
blogging the Boys right before half, and he before they
were about to come of the time, he goes, oh,
real quick, what do you want. Let's make it bad?

(01:54):
What do you are they gonna get the ball or not?
Like I mean, that was the kind of discussion, but
he was like, are they gonna get it? This will
be like a fun little rise coming out a halftime,
and it was really confusing. The thing it reminded me
of a little bit, uh not nearly the same with
the call. But there was a game years ago, I
don't know if you remember where. I think it was Thanksgiving.
The Steelers were playing the Lions, and it went into
overtime and Jerome Bettas called heads and the referee flips

(02:18):
it and goes, all right, it is tail or. It
is heads, So Lions you win. And then Jerome Bett
has got I called heads and he goes, no, you
called tales. He goes no, I said, and it was
this mask. And I think Pittsburgh won the game. And
that didn't end up mattering, but it was a big
deal at first, where it's like, how can you not
understand what the call was? And it had that same
sort of weird feeling. Well, and to pull the curtain back,
you and I are sitting in the press box of

(02:39):
Judy Batista, reporter that I respect immensely who was in
the NFL network and you know, has ridiculous connections with
the league in the league office. I'm turning to her, going, wait,
I'm confused. I'm going to play back the audio that
I just saw. I'm gonna playback the video. What are
you seeing here? And then of course Fox goes on
the broadcast and they play this It is Hey, Dallas

(03:00):
has kick kicking it that way? You want to kid
the second half? Okay, you're gonna kick. So I walk
into the locker room. You and I had talked during
that time. Somebody told Dak kick it. Yeah, that was.
That was one of the things when you're playing in
the audio that we were talking about, it's like somebody
there next and one of the other four guys is saying,

(03:22):
kick it. This bizarre exchange. So sometimes when you ask
questions of players in the locker room, there are instances
where they give you a response that you aren't expecting.
DeMarcus Lawrence was standing right next to Dak Prescott while
they're at the field, and literally one of my favorite things,
and if you're listening to this podcast, go back and
watch the video. Johnny Hecker, the putter for the Rams,

(03:43):
his face says it all. He sees the confusion and
he's laughing because he's going, you guys are going to
screw yourselves here, right. It was hilarious. It was pretty
funny too. I mean I've watched it probably six or
seven times. So I go to de Marcus Lawrence and
I say to marcause you were there for the confusion,
what happened, and what he said asolutely floored me. What
did you think of the coin toss? You were right

(04:03):
there next to time. Well, it was my fault. Um, actually, um,
you know, I want to defensive go out first. I
feel like, you know, we had a lot of energy,
you know, when to get it off our chest, and
you know we had something to prove, especially um after
that playoff law so um, I was trying to get
down the dirty and you know the guys came out
ready to play today. Where was the confusion in the right. Well,

(04:24):
we was gonna receive the ball, but I told him
to kick it the fir so. But once you say kick,
I think, uh, that means you're kicking off and you
got to kick off the second half. I don't know,
but we were supposed to say the fur so. You
know that was the look, you know, confusion. But it's
all good. Now. I haven't gotten clarity on this. How

(04:46):
can any player go up there as they're doing the
coin flip and just arbitrarily aside. I know we came
in here ready to receive the ball, but make a change.
I'm feeling it the first Yeah, I mean it did
the way he did described it did kind of have
the sound of like, um, like somebody with a gambling problem.
Like you know, I'm feeling it more bed I'm gonna

(05:08):
put and put the bed down like I'm feeling snake.
Guys here, you know hit me. I'm feeling it like
it was just it was weird how to Markus Lawrence
said it. But I mean that's and not to be
overly critical of DeMarcus Lawrence, but I will say that,
you know, we heard the Mike Gara follow report that
you know, they've really missed Tyrone Crawford. That was their
veteran like really uh, you know, smart savvy guy. And

(05:31):
you know this like Tyrone Crawford was the guy I
know you've had experiences Retyron Crawford has walked up the
guys are talking to him, said stop talking, shut up.
He kept guys aligned, and even de Marcus Lawrence will
say Tyrone Crawford was the guy that they would ride
bikes together to the facility so they could keep and
got that connection. He was always holding guys accountable. And
and d law said, I maybe just last week's out

(05:52):
of a charity event, I maybe haven't been the leader
I should be, you know, stepping up and being that guy.
So maybe in that moment he thought he was being
leader or it's something And I think that's just another
symptom of okay, a little over aggressive, a little bit
too much of fundy law here, we need to just
execute a coin flip. Please, let's keep comments to ourselves.

(06:13):
But as we shout out kick it, and Doc looks
over and goes kick it, and then it's no, defer it.
He goes your kicking, and it was the most bizarre,
like you've never seen confusion on what are we doing here?
Like right out of it we've only had like it's
three o'clock, we've had fifteen hours to prepare today for
what we're gonna say, receiver or defer, and the Marcus

(06:36):
just blurts out kick it. It's so after all that confusion, Bobby,
then we go to the new kicker, because we've talked
about this. They have the tryouts, they decide to hold
on to Brett Mare he has another stinker, and then
they finally like that's it, like we've got to move on.
So they bring in Kai for Bath, a guy that
was here in two thousand eleven, is a rookie and

(06:57):
has been all around the league since, mainly Washington. And yeah,
it's right out of the gate. He kicks the ball
out of the bounds and right after it happened, I
like Jane and I sit next to each other in
the press box obviously, and like right after the kid
goes out of bounds, I like leaned over to Jane.
I was like that, just this feels like we're gonna
like get on the podcast tomorrow and say like, well

(07:19):
it started there and it was all downhill and terrible
for it just had the feeling one of those things
of like, oh gosh, it's gonna be this kind of day.
And and he has he's got a serious hook to
that kick because he kicked it left out of bounds
his first field goal. He's lining up and and it
hooked a little. And when he's kicking the extra point,
the kicker can choose on extra points if they're going

(07:40):
to kick in the middle or which hash they want,
and he kicks from the right hash. I think probably
because he recognizes how much that hooks. But I think
that game has a similar problem. I think that'll I
think that's gonna cause some some fun anxiety for Cowboys
fans up. But I mean to be fair, he nailed
all his kicks yesterday, three for three. He was two
for two between in the forty yard range YEP. And

(08:02):
it was interesting. Is Matt Michael Gilkin, who we had
on this podcast a few weeks ago had this fun fact.
Maher was one of five from forty nine and thirteen
games Kai four Bath has made more field goals in
the forty five range and his debut than Brett Maher
had all season. Yeah, pretty pretty terrible. I mean, look,

(08:24):
here's the thing. And I don't want to be too
critical of Brett Maher because it's the kicking position. It's
been done for a week. The guys out of a job.
That's unfortunate, but you know what is. And I like
Brett Maher. I thought he was a nice guy, but
he's you know, he was that was his mo though.
He was the weapon. He had the big cannon leg.
He could always keep you. You know, his value was

(08:46):
late in the game you need to get into field
goal position. You didn't have to get that extra ten
or fifteen yards for him to be potentially in range,
and so there were benefits to him. But yeah, you
would like some more consistency inside of fifty and hopefully
that's what you can get from Kai for Bath well,
And I always when when everyone starts talking about the kickers,
I think a lot of the poor kicker for the
Chicago Bears last year, remember, Yeah, and people were cussing

(09:11):
him out and and my argument was that goes to
the front office, Then that goes to the GM. I mean,
if you keep a liability that you know is a
liability on your team and you don't go and try
and find a replacement, then that's on you, guys. I
don't know if I'm putting that completely on the player
at that point. Yeah, And I mean it's not a
fun life being a kicker when you're a badasset that
nobody really seems to care. And uh, you know, you

(09:34):
can be a guy like famously Scott Norwood, the kicker
for the Bills in the early nineties who were paying
that forty eight yard field goal in the Super Bowl,
and he had been a good kicker up to that point,
and he is just that's all he's remembered for, is
he shanked what at the time was a difficult kick.
A lot of people weren't making forty eight yard kicks
regularly in the NFL back in But you know, it's

(09:55):
it's a tough life for a kicker. Dan Bailey felt
it leaving here and now he's gone on and found
success in Minnesota, and it's seemed to calm down. It's
to me, being a kicker is a lot like being
a reliever in Major League Baseball, Like it feels like
you have no clue from year to year if the
reliever or kicker is going to be good, Like they'll
be great one year and then the next year they

(10:16):
can't do anything. One of my favorite shows that I
watched recently is you You know how much I adore
Mike Leach. I just think he's fascinating and what a
gift if I would ever cover him in the NFL.
But there was a show It's seven College Football and HBO,
and there was like this just brief part about the
kickers were on island. I've talked to coach Leach personally

(10:39):
five or six times, and that's it. It's he's he's
out there with offense and he just kind of lets
me be and he said, go to your thing. That's
essentially what you want from your kickers. Leech doesn't even
know half their names. He doesn't pay attention to them.
You don't want to know the names or pay attention
to them. You just want them to be automatic. You've
got a lot of other things to focus on and
for the Cowboys to bring this full story cool. That

(11:00):
was getting their offense and defense on the same page,
playing complimentary football, and we certainly saw that in their
win the Rams. If there was a game this year
that we would have looked at and thought, all right,
this is where they're going to get their act together,
this would not have been at Like I would not
have anticipated hungry needing to win Rams coming to town
who are finally hitting their stride versus Cowboys who are

(11:23):
a mess and really don't need this win. That would
not have been the game that I would have expected
them to kind of put it all together. But they did,
and they rallied around these veterans. Jason Witten spiking the
ball for the you know, first time in sixteen years.
According to him, says he's gonna need to call his
granddaddy and apologize, but said, you know, I felt I
needed to give a spark, and you know, the Shawn

(11:45):
Lee game was fantastic. We interviewed him after the game,
and you need to if you're listening to this, you
need to go find the interview Jane did with him,
because like we get this shot, we panned down looking
at his uniform, there's blood all over his pants and
he he left it all on the field. He said
as much that, you know, I needed to step up
and and really needed to make an impact today. And
here's that interview. All right, before we get going, can

(12:07):
we just look at your uniform right now? It looks
like you. That's really sort of personifies what the box
score looked like for you. You've been playing in this
league for ten years. This was your first game with
an interception in sack. You missed three straight days of practice.
What got into you? You know, we need to step
up as a defense, and personally I needed to step up.
The last three weeks. We hadn't played like we want

(12:27):
to play, and we really thought our identity was that
was that was a threat. You know, we weren't playing
like we wanted to. We weren't running the ball, and
we finally stepped up and played the way we wanted
to play. All right, we want me through this place.
Second and fourteen one two to go. When you have
that interception? What were you seeing there? Was that from
all of that tape that we see you studying like
in the Amazon Prime video All or Nothing? Yeah, I
mean that's tape. It's my coaches. It's kind of understanding

(12:49):
the situation, the route concepts that they'd like to run,
and being able to get a great break on the
football and see the quarterback and then afterwards trying to
get the ball as close to the goal and as
I could. It's one of those things where you put
that hard work in mentally and physically and hopefully it
shows up. We saw you sort of selfishly, selflessly allow
Layton Vanderesh to shine last year obviously hasn't been here

(13:10):
because of the neck injury. You stepped up once again
this year. How good does it feel to see you
invigorate your teammates the way that you did today. Every
single play you made, the team was so into it,
you felt like it was a spark. Well. I've just
been so blessed to be around this group, and they've
stuck with me through a lot of tough times, through
a lot of injuries, through games that I missed and
I wish I'd played, And I just wanted to come

(13:30):
back this year and help anyway I couldn't try to
help us win football games, um and and that's what
I was able to do today. But I know, you know,
we have more ahead of us. We have more wins.
We want to have bigger things we want to do.
So it's a great win, but we want to move
on the next and keep going. How big is this
game for you guys? You get ready to play Philadelphia
next weekend? Well, it's always a big game, obviously when
you play a division rival, but it's big the end
of the year. Both of us trying to get into

(13:51):
the playoffs. We know it's a big game, and we
got embraced that. Yeah, I just I was so impressed
with Shawn Lee because I had reached out to him
because I was entry sit In doing a sit down
piece the student becomes a teacher, and the piece was
the was Sean Lee, this guy that you know, I
was there what was it? O T A s when
he came off the field and entered himself and all

(14:12):
the media was out there and it was it was
hard to watch. We were at Valley Ranch back then,
and there's been so many years where he's done the
work in the off season, and you know, we even
talked about it this year at Cowboys camp. All the players,
you know, typically ride the plane out to Oxnard. He
has a place out in Santa Barbar where he and
his wife's day and he flew all the way home

(14:33):
to Dallas just to get on the flight and fly
all the way back because he wanted to be part
of the team. You saw the All Or Nothing Special
where it's New Year's Day and shot uh to Shaun Lee,
one of the last guys up here at the facility,
and it's like the saddest thing you've ever seen, final shot,
final seasons over. There's and he's still in there doing

(14:53):
film work with the season over. And I don't believe
Shawn Lee is not the type of guy he might
I had he turned down the piece. He wasn't interested
in doing this piece where it was the student becomes
a teacher in the way that because he doesn't like
the spotlight. And so I don't believe, like in the
All or Nothing Special, that that was a setup shot
of him. I think the crew was there, they saw
they're like, wow, that's sort of intriguing. I don't feel

(15:15):
like that was no. I don't think the producer saying, hey, Sean,
we know you love film, let's get this sad shot.
He's not the type of guy that agrees to that. Now,
this wasn't the Hills or real world or something where you're,
you know, asking the cast to be in a certain
position so you can get the shot. One of the
things I really remember from All or Nothing, I think
it was It was definitely later in the season, but
Sean was battling injuries and one of the coaches was

(15:37):
talking to him and saying, you know, hey, I don't
know that we want to push this talking about his injury,
and he got a little annoyed. And it's one of
the things that really stands out to me about All
or Nothing. He said, quit trying to get me not
to play, and it was very stern. It was like
knocking up. He loves the game of football, he really does,
and he's one of the smartest guys when it comes
to the football. And I just I really last year

(16:01):
you were talking to Rod Marnelli about him and he
got a little choked up and he said, you guys,
appreciate this, y'all don't understand what a special player you're havin.
You need to appreciate this because when he's gone, you're
gonna miss it. And it's true. And that's why I
wanted to do this piece because it felt like last
year was going to be a Swan song. You could
sort of fill the writing on the wall, and it
was interesting. I had an NFC East team inquire about

(16:23):
Shawn Lee at his situation in Dallas, and you know,
I said, look, it's no different than what I've reported.
You know, obviously late in Vanderes has been been able
to shine. And I had someone say to me, if
he becomes available, I want that guy. We're going to
go after him. There's a lot of stead Sean came
to this facility and he and his agent worked out
a contract that would allow him to come back, and

(16:45):
might I point out they didn't want the details of
that to ever get out. He just again wanted to
do this his way. He didn't want it to be
a distraction. He didn't want to look like he took
a hometown discount or whatever that contract was. And that's
why I respect there. There's a lot of value in

(17:07):
he could have started somewhere. There's a lot of here's
the thing, and I've said this, there are a lot
of people who are upset with Randall Cobb and some
of the way he's played this year, with some of
the drops that he's had. I think overall he's been piece.
But here here's the bigger thing that I said, and
this is what kind of got some pushback on Twitter,
but I said, you know, like I really hope the
Cowboys find a way to bring back Randall Cob because

(17:29):
you really, genuinely, I don't think people understand the nature
of chemistry and the locker room and how important that
is to what they're going to do on the field.
And Randall Cobb has been such a key cog as
as a veteran leader in there, and I think has
done a lot to really foster some positivity on offense
and really helps Sean Lee's that guy on defense, and

(17:49):
I think that you really need those guys. And so
you know, when you hear about teams that are, you know,
asking about Sean Lee and stuff, it's because other teams recognize,
even if he's not the same player he once was,
or they don't know that he can stay healthy, there's
value in that guy being in your locker room. Your
trash is another team's treasure, and he would would a
hundred of percent have been somebody else's treasure this year.

(18:11):
And so I thought it's fascinating that he had the
game that he did after missing three days of practice,
and you know, these guys hear it. I'm sure Sean
Lee is not a big social media guy. He doesn't
strike me as one of those, but he knows the
narrative out there about the fact that he hasn't always
been as healthy as he'd like to be. But it's
not for a lack of effort. You know, We've talked

(18:32):
over the years, he's you know, tried to get over
the hamstring issues and doing things in the off season
to get better. And so that's why I really was
looking forward to talking to a after a game. Uh,
and just how measured and deliberate. He's truly one of
the most intense players that I've ever interviewed or watched.
One of the what I think is Shawn Lee. And

(18:53):
I reflect back all my time covering the Cowboys. I
always remember being at training camp and there's this poor guy,
I don't know if he's an equipment manager. What does
what does that guy do? I don't know what, you know,
referencing the guy that's always sort of running around grabbing
the football. Yeah, yeah, just yeah. I wanted to the
equipment guys. This poor guy didn't have the dummy in
the right spot, and Sean Lee lit him up, eviscerated

(19:15):
him at practice one day because he wasn't in the
position that he wanted him to be on this dummy.
He just literally sort of turned into this jackal mr Hyde.
When he's on the football field, he's insane, and then
when he's away from it, he's like super kind, thoughtful.
I I think whenever anybody's seen an interview with him
or heard an interview with him, he's alway. He's generally

(19:35):
kind of gentle and and a little soft spoken and
really thoughtful, and and you wouldn't have any clue that,
like earlier and O T A S. This year, they're
out there and Jordan Lewis gets flagged during a drill
for pass interference and every other word out of Shawn
Lee's mouth is an expletive and he's looking at the sidelining,
going we can challenge that this year, right, throw the

(19:56):
flag on that, and he's super into And I was
just an O T A S. Practice, That's all Some
of some of my favorite battles used to be Shawn
Lee and de Marco Murray and it surprised people. Shaun's
a talker on the figure, he talks a lot, so yeah,
and to have him have the game that he did,
and you know, his nickname around here is the General.

(20:16):
You could just see it on the sidelines. And then
even today people reacting to some of the highlight videos
that spin move that he put on his Ramps players
and how many it took him took to take him down.
I just thought was big. And you know, we can
also talk about Jason Witten's game. Yeah, well, and before
going to Witnes, I do want to say, like, when
you talk about how important it is, take Dak Prescott,
the guy who's the head of the team, in his

(20:37):
press conference yesterday, says the Shawn Lee interception was he
said that that's probably if you had a camera, and
he said, that's the most excited I've ever been about
to play in football in my life. And he said
because I love seeing that. And Jordan Lewis talking afterwards
saying like that's our captain, we love seeing that, we
love that, and so yeah, I think there was a
lot of joy about Shawn Lee's game, and then additionally
about Jason Witten's game and talking about how he spikes

(20:59):
the ball all and he you know, like we mentioned that,
he said he's never done that, but he wanted to
bring the juice. And I think, well, I think he
was hearing the narratives out there too that, yes, why
is he getting more playing time? Because I was told
heading into the season that there was sort of a
divide in this building because they liked what they were
seeing from Blake Jarwin. I mean, just look at the

(21:19):
final game against the Giants when Darwin had what three
touchdowns in that game? Yeah, And I mean he's made
a lot of big plays here. He's an athletic player,
he's he's an exciting player. And so the argument has
been is Jason Witten on the field prohibiting the development
once again of the younger tight ends behind him. The
biggest problem when Jason Witten left was they hadn't quite

(21:40):
developed any younger talent behind him because he was always
on the football field. You've got to think that our
guy Witten heard some of that, and you can't argue
that that was a tremendous catch. It was almost across
the body, right hand catch. It was behind him. Yeah,
he just he kind of and he said, stuck on
the glove And he said after the game that you know,

(22:00):
you always do those tennis ball drills, which for people
who don't know, a lot of receivers will do these drills.
We're just kind of throwing tennis balls at, you know,
various points and you're supposed to kind of just react
and catch the ball with one hand. And he said,
you always do those tennis ball drills hoping they, you know,
have an impact on the game. And there it was,
and so it was. It was, you know, moving to
his side, having to reach back and just stick in
his palm out and catching it, and he was pumped up.

(22:23):
He was excited. And I think that was rejuvenating for
the whole roster because I think the players in that
locker room, the young players in that locker room, they
all really respect Jason Went and they all really respect
Shawn Lee. And I mean, those are your two really
long standing veterans on both sides of the wall. So
for them to be such big pieces of this coming
together and this bounce back, I think really does a

(22:44):
lot to kind of help. As Zeke said, the morale,
as he said after the game, our morale was low,
and I think that was a big boost morale to
see those guys being a big part of what they
were doing. And look, we just sound more excited in
this podcast talking about this game, because as I said,
I think we've done six or seven of these. We're
talking about a change in coaching. We will leieve it.
There's talent on this roster that they haven't been able

(23:06):
to put it together. Why is that happening? Why is
de fenceman as abysmal as they've been? What has happened
to the run game? And it seems as though, you know,
as Jerry Jones said it yesterday in the post game,
it's just what the doctor ordered. It is crazy, though,
when you think about just the identity of this team,
the passing game, the deep shots, those are the exciting place, right.
We've seen it from Randall Cobb, We've seen it from

(23:27):
Michael Gallup, We've seen it from a Marie Cooper. It
was wild to me that combined, you saw over three
hundred yards of total offense from rookie Tony Pollard and
Ezekiel Elliott and then the Cowboys when you look at
the receiving corps, Mariy Cooper, Michael Gallup, Randall Cobb combined
for twenty two yards on three catches, and that's partly
because Randall Cobbs one catch went from negative three yards

(23:50):
would have been twenty five. It was just coop and gallop.
But yeah, no it was. But we're not factoring in
Tavon Austin. I mean, who had a big play and
a big play and former team and you remember how
how chippy he was when they made that trade. Yeah, yeah,
and he was a trade, right. He didn't around the draft,
and I remember him coming in and we've seen dynamic

(24:13):
plays from him in training camp, right. He last year
Sunday Night Football, he had the big touchdown catch to
open the game against the Giants. He's you see it
at times. He is explosive and and it's but we
see him typically. I think the fans see him on
special teams and he's not exactly giving you a lot there.
And then, of course there was the fair catch situation

(24:33):
with the Vikings a couple of weeks ago that led
to questions about accountability from Jason Garrett. So I think
he probably appreciated the fact that he got that done.
I know Jason Garrett is a huge fan of table
On Austin was probably excited that he had that for
himself as well. They they love, they love that Tavon
Austin can give you those explosive plays you know from
time to time. But again, one of the big things

(24:56):
locker matters, locker culture matters. That is a guy that
is in his short time here a year and a half,
everybody in the locker room loves Tavon Austin, from coaches
to players, everybody. He is such a fun guy. He's
always smiling. I remember, you know, approaching the locker last year,
I said, I just really appreciate how excited you get
during the games. I just want to say that, and
he said, yeah, people always ask me, you know why

(25:16):
I'm always smiling. He said, if if you know where
I come from, you'd be smiling too to be in
this position. And so he's just it was a good
day for a lot of good people. I think, you know,
to see Jason Sean, it was. It was an uplifting game.
And when you go into that locker room post game,
we had said, you know, they don't need this game
for their playoff chances, but when you see how relieved
everybody was and how happy everybody was the locker, they

(25:38):
definitely needed that game, because look, when you're around this
team and you cover them as much as we do,
you feel for him because you you it's not this
team that's like giving up on each other or giving
up on themselves. So you saw it there, but it
was almost like, why can't you guys get it together
against some of these teams that you, in theory should beat.

(26:00):
But then of course you look at the Buffalo Bills
the way they played they're now in the playoffs. Um,
you look at the Patriots, you know that's that's one
of the Then you look at the Vikings the way
they've kept their self alive. I mean, really, just the
last three weeks have been before this game, we're really
the only disappointing straight when you look at some of
the other games they lost, they were losing close games.

(26:22):
But I think that overall they you have to believe
in their ability to hang with some of these teams.
It's just been in the last three weeks where people
are kind of like, alright, what's happening. This is kind
of entering disaster territory because like the Rams on Sunday,
you almost couldn't afford to lose. Not so much about
the mathematical equation. They couldn't afford to lose because the

(26:44):
morale was beginning to slip, and when their backs were
against the wall and their coach was on the hot seat,
they weren't getting it done. And so you started to think, well,
if that doesn't motivate you, what will. But we did
see that turn against a really at football team. You
can get a team that's hungry and that was hungry
and needed it. And then against one of the lead's

(27:06):
brightest offensive minds and Sean McVeigh all of a sudden,
Kellen Moore and Jason Garrett and staff, yeah step up.
And dare I say they out coached him? Yeah, I
think you can say that. And I think I mean
Jerry Goff wasn't having his best day. No, Todd Gurley
incredibly limited, No Cup was which a non factor. He
didn't even get a chance to mention yet a guy

(27:27):
who stepped up early and was setting the tone and
making some stuffing play. Good to see Antoine Woods back
on the field and making plays that mattered early for
setting the tone and stuffing Todd Gurley. And how about
Xavier Suaphilo, Yeah, handling Aaron Donald that he did everybody
on that offensive line stepping up, but I think especially
Suephilo is the one that would catch people off guard,

(27:47):
knowing what type of players the Rams have on the interior.
So I mean, really a great game all the way around.
And like I said, you could you could feel it
in the locker room post game. They were happy. They
were like genuinely happy that they had won this game
and kind of turned it. And it wasn't the I know,
we kind of wondered if they were going to be
a little, you know, a little full of themselves when
we're walking. It wasn't that. It was just genuine like

(28:09):
we're happy, We're so glad that we won this game.
Let's take this, let's build on this. It felt there
was a sense of humility, there was a sense of relief,
and there was a a feeling of true optimism. And
I gotta tell you, I might be guilty of this
great We're about to bring Mike Fisher in here, and

(28:29):
we'll have to the way that Jerry Jones walked into
that locker room after the Bill's loss and came out
a different human than he was pre uh pre Bills
game and believed that adversity right, help helps try the
hell of a comeback story. I may or may not
have also entered that portal and believe that if this

(28:53):
team continues to play the way they did against the Rams,
perhaps not just entered that portal. I'm and you all
to know. She's responsible for planting the idea in Jerry's
head because as Jerry's walking out of the locker room,
we're going in there to interview Sean Lee, she goes, Hey, Jerry,
hell of a comeback story. And Garry was all about it.
It was a little tongue in cheek. I said, there's

(29:17):
the redemption game. You believe in second chances. I'm just saying,
if you look at the way the forty Niners lost
to the Falcons, you look at the way the Cowboys
have played the Saints, and the Saints have lost to
the Falcons, anybody in the NFC can be beat this year.
That is true. I think there is a possibility that

(29:37):
if the Cowboys, like I said, played the way that
they did yesterday, there's a chance. And not only is
there a chance that they can make a run. Prempared
for the possibility, j Z Garrett may come back. A
guy that has some insight into the mind of Jerry Jones.
Is my buddy Mike Fisher. Cowboy fans know him well.

(29:58):
You can find him on Twitter it Fish Sports, and
he's always what I call this great storyteller as you
get him onto the fish. Yes, these great nuggets are
so easy to digest. Yeah, it's crowded in that Jerry
Jones brain where we hang out, isn't it. It is?
And you've covered him years, yeah, far longer than I have.
I'm not trying to date you, but I'm I'm What

(30:19):
I'm saying is you have perspective on Jerry, makes sense
of the emotional roller coaster that has been Jerry Jones
in the last couple of weeks as it applies to
his head coach Jason Garrett. I'm sure in real life
he's a good poker player. If we actually had cards,
he could probably kill us in poker, I suppose. But
he's when it comes to truth and lies, he's a
terrible poker player. You can see it right in his

(30:40):
steely blue gray eyes what he really means. Uh And
and I even think he enjoys the game. Uh So
he'll throw out an Easter egg the other day He's
on wonder Fire through the Fan and the question is
about the Oklahoma coach Lincoln Riley, and he gives an
answer about Matt rule of Baylor. Why, well, there's a
there's as and why because because he's interested in Matt

(31:02):
rule of Baylor too. So he throws the easter egg out.
He thinks it's fun. He swears on the radio, fully
knowing that you can't swear on the radio, but he
does it anyway on purpose. I just think I think
one of the great things about Jerry, and not everything
is great about him, but one of the great things
about Jerry is the the entertainment value that he brings
to us. And as he's so entertained by himself too,

(31:26):
that doubles up. And to your point, he even I
loved is it mission to Corey and Kevin on one
of five through the Fan that even him throwing out
the cuss words, getting dumped the things that he said
a controversy. We got some mileage out of there. Ye
all right, So where do you think he's at with
Jason Garrett? You know, I had reported and we've talked
about this that there have been some real I would

(31:49):
say it's not a full blown coaching search. Diligence, it's
a look and see. It's due diligence, it's surveying the landscape.
He baited the fish pole. He wanted to see if
he could get the big fish. She didn't necessarily get
the big fish, not this fish, no intended. But in
the absence of Sean Payton and Bill Belichick, could you

(32:11):
see him really moving on from Jason Garrett after this season?
If they win a divisional game, you have to say
publicly what what Jerry and Stephen even Stephen even more
crisply has said, which is no. You have to say
that we believe in Jason. We've always believed in Jason.
We're always going to believe in Jason. That's what you
have to say. But the idea of it's a coaching

(32:31):
search but kind of not is half pregnant. A coaching
search is a coaching search, even if you already have
one that you love, if you're married and you love her,
what you're thinking about cheating, You're thinking about cheating. It's
almost cheating. Jimmy Carter would say it was cheating, Okay,
you had an affair of the heart that the Jones
family is having an affair of the heart on Jason Garrett.

(32:53):
This is going to be new for you because I
know that you are happily married to Marsha and you
would never download Bumble on your phone. Not Bumble is
a dating app, but this is the equivalent of them
downloading Bumble and they're just looking to see what's in
the area. They've set the parameters. They want to thirty six,
they want blondes, they want no no, no no, because

(33:14):
they have one. This is an Ashley Madison account that
they've opened they're looking for. I'm not naive, Yeah, but
I don't know. Here's where I'm coming from. This is
I'm just curious. I've started this prepared for the possibility
because he I feel like he wants to see Jason

(33:36):
Garrett get it done. He believes in the fairy tale.
He believes in the story of ag Ending. Jason is
his creation. And when Jason gets a win like he
did sort of this redemption game of sorts against the Rams,
that against an offensive genius that led to them going
and getting the Kellen Moore, he gets that done last night,
they go on a run and then let's just assume

(33:58):
they were able to win the Divisional championship, all right?
Would he go out there and roll the dice and
reboot next season when once again his guy has gotten
him close again? What if his guy knows that the
time's up. What if Garrett, as much as the Jones Is,
realizes ten years is a long time to say the

(34:18):
same message to the same building, to the same fan base.
And I think that's in the back recesses of Jason
Garrett's mind that Jason Garrett and Carolina might not be
a bad idea. I'm glad you brought that up, because
I believe that he is going to go out there
and his market value has begun to rise, and I
think there's a part of him maybe real saying to him,

(34:39):
you know, Jason, we don't have kids in school here.
We can pick up and move on, and what might
it be like if we were unchanged. They love New York,
as you know, just as a couple. They love New York,
and he's got New York ties there as she does.
They went to school there. Um, Carolina is lovely. In
football season, but okay, so again, the interest, the excitement

(35:02):
about Jason starts to grow. He starts winning some games,
the players never left him. These other organizations are going well.
Jason Gere's the type of guy we might like for
an organization. Does Jerry get scared of losing him to
an NFC East opponent? I say no. Uh. If Jason
Garrett beats me every once in a while, because he's
the coach of the Redskins, I can live with that.

(35:22):
If I've gone out and replaced him, who somebody with
somebody who for the time is better forget Bill Belichick,
who's better forgetting even Sean Payton. Although I'm not sure
why we're so quickly forgetting Sean Payton. I know that
you're mad okay um and NFL Network and an Ian
rap report, and you are all on the same page here.

(35:45):
I believe you. But he was pretty locked in last year.
You didn't going anywhere last year, and you still called
him and played footsie with him, went to call him again.
There was an assumption, I believe on the Cowboys as
a way was described to me that perhaps there was
buy out in his existing deal, right, And so while
they did a look see, I think Sean also thought

(36:10):
I got a lot of antonomy down here, Mrs Mrs Benson,
trust him so does Mickey Loomis. He and he's the
president of New Orleans. Golden got no doubt. But you know,
it's like Nick Saban trying to leave Alabama, but someday
he might. I just don't think that was that was
just speaking of Saban. That's funny. I think it's parcels
think I think he comes here towards the end of

(36:31):
his career. So I think I think Sean Payton comes
here at the end of his career. That's my point,
so do I. But but Pat, don't he brought that
name up to me that he said he thinks given
a call to Saban would make some sense. Saban's near,
you know, he's upper sixties. Maybe he's tired of the
Alabama thing they're starting. They're not nearly the team. They
were lost the game this year, I believe you know,
they're not. They're not in the College Football Playoff. And

(36:53):
what does Nick Saban have left to check off his
box except some success at the NFL. That's the only
blemish on his record. And so don't he was sitting
there's saying that he wondered if if when they cast
that wide net. As I know you've used the term,
why not just call? Why not see? I wrote on
Cowboys si dot com that that my view of what
their view should be is have you ever seen Jerry's house?

(37:14):
It's the finest house. Have you ever met Jerry's wife, Gene?
She is the finest person. She's literally the most flawless
human you've ever met. Uh, Jerry Jones. Somehow this facility
where and it's the finest, finest, it's the finest. His
helicopter is the finest, His yacht is the finest. Why
wouldn't you want the finest coach? Why would the one
thing in your life it's not the finest be your coach?

(37:35):
Because it's like the Texas Longhorns. A lot of people
don't want that job either, because there's so much meddling
down at Texas. I always compare the Texas Longhorns to
the Dallas Cowboys. Okay, but then then let Bill Belichick
say no thanks. Now. See, here's where I do believe
that if a Bill Belichick or Sean Payton, or even
a Nick Saban for that matter, came in, I believe
Jerry and Stephen might hands off because they respect that

(37:59):
they don't have to. My crow managed the thing. You remember,
you're talking about the jelly, the jello. Got one thing.
He's like holding two fists and jello in your hands
right when he got one over here, held and squeeze
out the other man. He also uses the p's on
a plate. You ever heard p's on a plate? But Dad,
he used to tell me, it's like trying to balance,
but he's on a plate. Think about a bunch of
p's on a plate. They don't They don't balance. So

(38:20):
but it's his way of saying that I know better
than everybody around here, and I've got to micromanage. He
might macro manage. Jimmy Johnson took one of the fistfuls
of jello. Correct. Bill Parcels took one of the fistfuls
of jello. Correct. Jason Garrett holds some of the jello
around here. So does Will McClay, so does Stephen. I
don't think the the Bill Belichick to Dallas or some

(38:41):
of these other guys would ever get Jerry off the radio. No,
but that's what they would prefer, because then it doesn't
look like one voice. You know. That's Akman's big thing.
And we he and I talked the other day for
like two hours. One he's he doesn't hate the jones Is.
He's not anti cowboys. He just thinks one voice. He
thinks the way that Jimmy Johnson did it. And he's
talking about one voice. When we say we're having a

(39:02):
kicking tryout, we're having one because Troy lived it. Troy
lived the difference. Troy saw the different whereas here and Jane, Jane, Bobby,
you guys were here every day for three weeks. We're
having kicking trials. No, we're not. We're having tryouts. Yes
we are. We don't need tryouts. We're fine. My head
sleeps fine when I it hits the pillow at night,
says Brett Maher after kicking balls out of bounds and

(39:24):
sideways and off his own forehead. Then they had a
kicking try out with three guys that are XFL kickers,
and finally they brought in for Bath, who's an actual kicker.
It took took him three weeks of dancing in circles
because they didn't have one voice. Okay, let me ask
you this. You cover the Mavericks to how much different
is this than what Mark Cuban does with his team too?
For a long time Mark Cuban was the general manager

(39:46):
of the Mavericks. I mean he I remember when I
covered the team, He's doing pregame interviews on his elliptic
on a stair stepper. Well, you're literally catching sweat with
I'm not kidding. I heard the story or Mike there,
and he was heavily involved, and he's still heavily involved
as the owner. But but Donnie Nelson is the general

(40:09):
manager and Rick Carlile ones the basketball team, and they're
the better for it. The organization's better for it. But
Rick has sort of earned that respect to Here's where
I come down on this, though, I'd be more willing
to believe that Jerry's just not going to be able
to walk away from Jason if we hadn't. You know,
three years ago watched him walk away from Tony and

(40:29):
two years ago watched him walk away from Dez Bryant,
and and those were battles that Mark lost where he
I just I just keep coming back to the fact
that the players still love him. If the players went
to Jerry, because Jerry's got that open line of communication
with a lot of these guys, if the players came
to Jerry like they came to him and said this

(40:50):
isn't working. Or I think there were some people who,
God forbid, I create lastem me here. I think there
were some people that maybe said Tony wasn't jelling with
all the players in the locker room the way that dacted,
which is very fair. I don't think there's any players
going to Jerry and saying Tony's not Jason's the reason
that we're being held back. Do you think Jason went
and Shawn Lee are going to Jerry and saying that no,

(41:12):
may I interject, don't go to the players. The owner
doesn't go, but he does. You know that, don't that
that's that's their department. But see, I think he looks
at it just the way that he looks at when
he puts pepsi products in all of the the businesses
around here. He's talked about it when he's out in

(41:32):
the street. He's getting feedback from people, no question. I
think he gathers feedback from everybody, but maybe sometimes too
much for But I mean, your your quarterback room also
loved Wade Wilson and you fired him two years ago,
and Dak Prescott wouldn't said Wade Wilson is the problem either,
and I think that's actually pretty much. I think he's

(41:52):
I think he's made those but you know, and to
that idea, I think this is the interesting that regardless
of what they do with this, you're saying that you
shouldn't go to the players. That probably not. But you know,
one of the big points that had gone on when
it was discussing Dak's contract extension this off scene was was, well,
you don't know what coaches coming in here, and maybe
that coach doesn't want that Dak Prescott, and my whole

(42:15):
thing has been your new coach isn't picking your quarterback.
I think your quarterback is gonna be a part of
picking your new coach. And so regardless of whether that
should be done, I think Dak Prescott is going to
have a big say, and maybe not Jason's return, because
I think the Jones are realizing like that decision has
just gotta come down to them, But the next guy
coming in here is going to be I'm telling you
right now, Dak has told me before, and that's that's

(42:37):
why I think. That's why I think the Joneses are
I think the Jones are reaching a point where they
know that this is the decision that they have to make.
We we talked about that with Charles Robinson a couple
of weeks ago, that it feels like some of these
bigger decisions Dak Prescott, a Marii Cooper's contract, Jason Garrett's contract,
they are pushing these off as long as they came
because I think they are such tough internal decisions for
them in terms of what they want to do. And

(42:58):
then oddly enough, you get like Zeke, a guy that
isn't coming up for two years and they knock it out,
and Jay Len, a guy that's not coming up for
two years and they knock it out. I think that
they're really I think the fact that he even got
into a lame duck year says they're really genuinely considering
he may not be the guy along term, consider the
possibilities they can't find somebody. What what would hit saw

(43:19):
the pros list? Jason does give me a percentage of
what you think a percentage of Jason Garrett's the head
coach week one next year, because I would say five
if they go and win, well just from right now,
but not just from at this moment, what would you
say the odds are okay, And if they get to

(43:39):
the NFC title game, I'll bump my five from five
to ten. Okay. See, I think I think if they
get to an NFC title, I think they got to
get to a super Bowl. I just think weird as
we're discussing that Jerry listens to this and listens that
we're saying he might not give enough authority to a
coach to have real muscle here, but he'll give it
to Deak Prescott. He's given it to year olds. No,

(44:01):
but I'm saying it's it's to the locker room that
if he has a true walkabout coach, which is what
a lot of people have said that Jason is. He's
a CEO manager of the team. If they're still a
vote of confidence from his employees, they still want to
go and maximize their goals, meet their quotas because of
their fearless leader. Isn't that a guy that you want

(44:22):
in there? I thought, I think this is a good
week to feel this way because they just beat a
good Rams team. They spanked him and Garrett pushed some
right buttons. Except for the coin flip that the cut
up video last week, the Saturday Night speech all that stuff.
They are saying their coach got them prepared to play.

(44:43):
But but the inmates can't run the asylum. The players
shouldn't get a vote. Otherwise you have anarchy. I agree
with you and all merits. My only point is in
the if you had told me Sean Payton, give me
the options Sean Payton and Jason Garrett. That's clear cut
for me. I'll check Jason Garret click cut for me.
You put Ron Rivera, you put Mike McCarthy, you put

(45:05):
Riley Lincoln, Riley, Matt Rule Urban Meyer even for that matter,
on the table. I go back to the devil that
you know. Okay, but it's time. Barring a barring massive
success this year which you could build on for the future,
it's time. It's time. This marriage cannot be saved now.

(45:26):
And now here's the love. The love. The love is
on the surface. They've drawn up the divorce papers, but
I feel like they're having second thoughts. I'm just telling you, okay,
and if someone who's been married Jane, I don't know
what your story has in your relationship with your fitbit,
I don't know what. Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say,
you think you think Ian's report about rapport like that

(45:46):
to Jason felt like he saw Jerry's fitbit spike in
it four in the morning and he was like, what
is this now? Were you on the cover of People magazine?
Or am I overrating it? But she was. But but
I do know this, don't remarry your ex spouse. So
once you know and the Jones is, no, they know

(46:07):
it's time that don't make the mistake of remarrying their spouse.
I just don't. I just don't know if they want
to get back out there on the dating scene. Here.
Here's here's my question. Bringing back another Dallas easier. It's
easier when you've got another lady. You're going to move
on to bringing back another Dallas Mavericks analogy for which,
for those of you who don't follow the Mavericks, which
I'm sure we have lots of Cowboys fans who don't

(46:28):
hallow Mavericks, the Mavericks reputation for years has been Chris
Paul might come here. Never mind, Chris Paul's not coming here.
Oh DeAndre Jordan m No, never, and he's a Cowboys fan.
I take some of the blame for that. Dallas Basketball
dot Com just in general, just in general, that's the
way it's gotten. So even though we like to talk
about the finest things, if if they are making a

(46:49):
coach in search at the end of it, is there
a possibility that then it's oh Urban Meyer Lincoln righty. No,
actually it's Jack del Rio. No, actually it's Dan Campbell,
it's John Talks. Is that ability? Okay? All I know
is relating that to what Jana said. If the reason
that Jason Garrett has brought back, and he knows it's
the reason is we couldn't find anybody better, that's what

(47:10):
happened last year. But but Garrett had a contract at
the time. There was no reason for Garrett to at
five million dollars, what's gonna do? Get his feelings too hurt?
But I don't want to be where you don't want me.
I agree they don't want Jason Garrett back. Bad enough,
fair enough. But do you not think that he's invested

(47:32):
enough in these guys. Here's what I think if I was,
if I was chasing Garrett's agent, I'd start firing out
warning shots. You already you already felt like it with
the giants, they which they did do. They fired out
a warning shot and everybody laughs at it. By the way,
I'd start Cleveland because he's got family in Ohio. You
know that might be interesting. He's got young guys like

(47:54):
Baker Mayfield and you know the Jarvis Leander, and they
need a little they need to be settled there. Oh
b J. You know that you've got reports of players
telling Cliff Kingsbury come get me. You know last weekend
you got Carolina Redskins. You got Redskins. Can you imagine
losing Jason Gerrs things? To me, like I've said, that
would make the most sense in the world, because that's
a team that needs a Jason Garrett. That's an organization

(48:15):
that needs a steady hand that can deal with all
sorts of person giants. Would be the perfectly and exposed.
That's a good part of that story is true. And
he could have handled the media there because he's not
going to give you any material. And the beauty of
the Redskins is if they went eight and ate, they'd
throw him a parade. They put him up in the
old Ring of RFK Ring of Honor. Dan Snyder's a

(48:36):
Jerry Jones type owner or an aspiring yeah, inspiring for
twenty five years he's aspired to be Jerry Jones's Orlando
Scandrick will tell you the facilities just don't match. Colt
Beasley said they were great. That was the Bills. I'm
I'm just hesitant to think that the Cowboys can't do better,
and I'm hesitant to think that they haven't done better

(48:58):
for nine. But movie, here here's the here's the point
that I and we had. I don't think I've said
this on the air yet. I know we've had this,
and I've made this point too off air when we've
talked about it. Is that if you would have asked
Jerry or even just your average Cowboys fan, is Doug
Peterson a difference maker? When he got hired in Philly,
they would have laughed and said, that's not a guy
to take you to super And then he did it,
and he took a team that was missing stars. I

(49:19):
don't think thinking that you aren't sure if he's better
than in the organization though too sure, but people made
you know. They do this in Philadelphia a lot like
we've done. Another former player in the organization who's saying
the guy is not getting done anymore. Basically in Troy
Aikman and guy who's they had in Philadelphia, they had
Andy Reid and they had you know, fat guy Fridays

(49:40):
and everybody gets to eat in burrito. Then comes Chip Kelly, Yeah,
Chip Kelly, and he says, we're getting rid of fact
guy Friday burritos. We're going to have protein shakes on Tuesday.
And that's your college guy and his system. And how
well did that do in the NFL? And now here
comes a new guy. So there are no magical answers.
I agree, they're almost are no magical guys. It's why
you you see, over the course of fifty years, when

(50:02):
I have a task master as a coach, then he
gets fired, He's replaced by an avuncular Wade Philips guy.
Then in four years he gets fired, he's replaced by
a scholarly guy. Then in four years he gets fired,
and we go back to the taskmaster. Okay, but Fisher,
can we agree that while the window has been closing
for years now we're entering the fifth season of Ezekiel
Elliott and Dark Prescott and sort of this new era

(50:23):
of cowboys. Is it fair to say that the cowboys
in Jerry's mind and the coach the hires or whether
he says it, Jason need to get a Super Bowl
done within a two year span or the next coach
would get fired. That's what he's hiring for. Yeah, just
in general type of coach type a window that Jerry's
looking at us two years. Yeah. Jerry started saying this

(50:46):
now about five years ago at training campany Go was
the first time I hear him said, Uh, James, ain't
got time to have a bad time. And I turned
into a country song. Ain't got time to have a
bad time. He's perfect. But that was five years ago.
He seventy two. Now he's seventy seven. I guess he's
got a little less time. But my point is less
about Jerry's time and more about one of these What

(51:07):
does he always say his biggest regret is with Tony
Rome on them he wasted their youth, he wasted their years.
I can't get That's the thing though, I think that
I think Jason right now, Jason's position in the organization
may feel a little bit at this point to them
like we're wasting Zeke and dacs youth. But he could
potentially get them into the playoffs again. And and as

(51:29):
Jerry said, he's just what three years removed from coach
to the I'm not saying I agree with all this,
but I'm giving you all of that. When he talks
about that legal pad in the pros and cons, these
are all the pros on Jason's side, and there's a
lot of cons on the I don't know what I'm
getting from some of these other guys. But here's the
biggest the biggest con on Jason Garrett is this. Now,

(51:51):
that's only when Isaiah Thomas talks to Trip. It's out
of gas. It's out of gas with the public. It
might be out of gas to the public. But was
it out of gas with the players when they at
the Rams? Not this week, but it wasn't. It was
against Buffalo, Chicago and Minnesota. Okay, but let's see where
they if they if they use that steam from Jason
Garrett to go and win a divisional championship, can you

(52:14):
still walk away from I'm just saying, can Jerry then
walk away and say I'm going to go with the
Here here's what I would have said that. Here's what
I'll say is that if you look at last year
when they were sitting at three and five, if I
would have thrown out the scenario and said, what if
Jason can get him to ten and six? What if
Jason can get them to win a home playoff game?
What if Jason get him to the division around? Wouldn't
you have then thought, well, then, yeah, I think Jerry's

(52:34):
gonna sign him to extension. And they didn't do it.
They flirted with another girlfriend there. Their bar is much
higher with him this deep into it, I think, and
also they need different results. This concept that we wasted
Tony Romo's time is based on Jerry's belief that Tony
Romo is Tom Cruise, the greatest flyer pilot of all time.
They didn't waste Tony Romo's time. They did their best.

(52:58):
People do that to the Mavericks too. Boy, they wasted
Dirk Division. No, they didn't. They want a championship and
they tried to win ten others what you wanted to do,
It just didn't work. The Cowboys did everything they could
for Tony Romo, and I hope he did almost everything
he could for them almost So we've we've asked just
about everybody that's recently, like you give me your name,
who throw me a name that you think head coach?

(53:19):
Week one The reason that Urban Meyer is attractive to
me is not because he's not a loon, because he is.
He's a loon. Uh. The reason that Urban Meyers attractive
of me is he he won't come here and say,
here's my twelve guys that I'm hiring, here's my staff.
He won't come here and say, Jerry, get out of
my way. I know how to do the NFL. He'll

(53:39):
need Jerry, he'll need Stephen, he'll need Will McClay. And
when they tell him we'd sure like you to keep Colombo,
Kellen and Chris, he'll say, fine, I've known those guys
for years, because he probably has. Whereas if you hire
Matt Rule or interview Matt Rule like the Jets did
last year, Matt Rule is gonna say, i'd love the job.
Here's my fifteen guys in bringing, which is why Matt
Rule didn't take the Jet. That's and I admire him

(54:01):
for that. And that's gonna happen this year too. If
the NFL team, he's gonna say, I'm gonna leave these
three at Baylor, I'm taking these ten. Could couldn't that
name also be then with those stipulations, because this is
the name I keep onder Matt couldn't that name also
fit Bob Stoops. Yes, it's weird that he would. He's
here in Dallas. Why why did he bother going to

(54:22):
the XFL. I think he was signaling in general to
people that he was ready to go back to coach. See.
I'm more on I'm more on Fisher side. I feel
like Urban needs them more than they need him right now.
Even but even even he admits he's kind of worn
out his welcome on the college ranks, and he's talked

(54:42):
about how intriguing this NFL deal is for him. In
the account, I mean, he is openly politicking for this church.
I also believe that because he has relations with the
Ezekiel Elliott that Jalen Smith is one of his guys.
He tried recruiting him. He knocked through Dan mullen, right,
and so I feel like he'd be the disciplinarian of

(55:02):
sorts that you would want to come in here and
has skins on the wall. I would bet I would
bet with how young this team is and how make
blue chip players have, I bet Urban Meyer knows the
vast majority of players on this roster. I bet you
know that he's met their families, and he knows them. Really,
I bet she knows the vast majority of every player
on every roster in the NFL today, but especially a

(55:23):
team like Dallas where Will McClay has always prioritized big
school players. All right, So my point is if that
if they were going to legitimately move on, that's the
one that makes the most sense to me. But I
also feel like it would be a short term relationship probably,
But that's okay because then maybe Shawn's done. Come in here,

(55:44):
Barry Switzer your super Bowl and get out. Yeah, hey,
let's have Tom Landry be here for thirty years. That's dead.
The other thing about yeah, do you guys agree that
Cowboy fans some of them are always going to go, oh,
I'm still pining for coach Landry? Yes, But I also
think that Cowboys fans don't seem to understand that. And
he's not a bad guy at all. So I don't

(56:05):
mean this, but Jason Garrett's not just like the boy
scout like he like, that's what he puts out. But
Jason garrettle cuss and screamed at people, and the only
guy that actually got this done. Why hasn't there been
a concerted effort to just go to Jimmy and say
Jimmy was the secret sauce. Yeah, that would work. The
relationship obviously isn't good. Um. In fact, I bet you

(56:25):
my relationship with Jimmy is better than the jones really
is down deep. And that ain't saying much. But I
thought they'd mended fences, you know, for for TV and
or your hatching. I would love it. And listen, Jimmy,
if you're listening, I'm just kidding. I don't want to
get sued, and I'm just kidding, Michael, Michael Bennett, listens.
Apparently you're awesome, Jimmy, awesome sauce. If I was the

(56:47):
Joneses for public relations persons reasons at least, I'd hire
Jimmy Johnson as a consultant and then I'd really listened
to him. That's my point. I'm with you. It would
look great and he would sound great, and he really
does know what he's doing. Jimmy, I say, Merry Christmas,
go go call uh. You want to go pull somebody
out of the booth like you did with Parcels and
fears that go called Bill Cower, Go called Tony Dungy

(57:11):
is a lovely person. I do think it's unfortunate, though,
that Troy and Jerry can't sit down and talk, because
I do think there's some merits to some of Troy's arguments.
I mean, as broadcasts have been pretty matter of fact,
and he did give them credit where they were where
credit was due yesterday. He also talked about the fact
that if they kept some steam and some minimum here,

(57:32):
momentum here, he does believe that this is a team
that could do some pretty incredible things. And I'll tell
you this, the reason they're not going to sit down
to lunch among the many others, is this is what
one person who would just go watch football life. Yeah, yeah,
one person who would be at that launch if they
hadn't said they already know what each of them thinks.
Jerry already knows what Agman thinks. He says it every Sunday.

(57:53):
Aman knows already what Jerry thinks. Jerry's doing it every
Sunday for years, and and not to say that, I
don't think those two have a bad relationship at all.
Like Jerry and Troy are still I think Jerry respects
a level of honesty as long as it's fair well,
and I mean, like I said, Don Van Note about
a couple of weeks ago, said that Troy is one

(58:13):
of the few people Jerry really does listen to. Jerry
may not like take his advice on like who's gonnah,
But I mean I think Jerry does. Let me interject this,
their their relationship is not what you would like it
to be. You dream of mommy and Daddy staying married
and they're not married. Well, he talked, well, if you
watch again football life, Troy very candidly talked about how
he concussions was one thing, but it was also he

(58:35):
was sort of tired of the way that Jerry was
running the organization and he almost came out of the
booth to go playing for the Eagles. Um See, I
think Jerry wishes that Troy would be a loyal cowboy
like Michael. That's exactly That's exactly what they would say
if they were sitting here. That's exactly what Aikman thinks.
It's exactly what Jerry thinks. Neither one of them are wrong.
But Aikman's like, I can't do that, that's not my job,

(58:57):
and Jerry's like, but I've but I've been loyal to you,
can't you be loyal to me? So that there's a
separation that exists there. It's it's not the reason that
Troy Agman will never be the general manager of the Cowboys,
because even if they got along great, he would never
be the general manager of the Cowboys because he would
need Jerry to step way aside. He would want to

(59:17):
take charge of football operations. He would want to hire
his own right hand man who has more experience than him.
Will McClay would therefore say, well, what's my role. I'm
not I'm not staying here right, I already got two guys.
I mean now I got five, so that that marriage.
I'm sorry little Junior in Little Cissy, but mommy and
Daddy are not getting back together Troy and Jerry ever

(59:38):
story time with Fish Fish. I could have you on
this podcast for hours at a time. We hope that
you will come back. Well, I missed three radio shows.
Why I was doing your really all right? Well, we
look forward to uh revisiting with you again on the
subject of the Cowboys and the drama that has unfolded

(59:59):
over the years. Since you are such a historian of sorts,
Hopefully we'll talk about this, uh Cowboys win over the
Eagles and then them getting into the playoffs on our
next podcast and then again we'll continue to kick around
the future of Jason Garrett here and there, Yes and again.
As we mentioned last week, thanks to our friends at
the road for the Roadcaster Pro that we recorded this

(01:00:20):
on today. This is an Ashley Madison account that they've opened.
They're looking for I do I know what that is too,