November 27, 2019 • 49 mins
On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby welcome RJ Ochoa from Blogging the Boys to discuss the future of Jason Garrett. Plus, former Buffalo Bills center, and current Bills radio color analyst, Eric Wood stops by to preview the Thanksgiving game. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, Boys and Girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell, a Cowboys community with the
inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to
you from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby.
(00:29):
I'm just really frustrated. I thought we could come up
here and really put together a better effort on all
three phases. When you're general manager, of which I am,
those coaches are out there at my Altamont decision, her
Majesty's pleasure. I don't think there's a game that a
coaching staff has areas that it couldn't do better. I
just don't like it that we've got so many. As
(00:52):
I'm standing here tonight, we just gotta focus on coaching's
balls with counterplan as well as with camp first rule
of leadership. Everything is your thought. There certainly was some
things in the game that we have to get better
app and we're gonna work on that as a staff
and as a football team. Added to we flect leaves,
shoot captain, but again our eyes are forward on Buffalo.
At the end of the day, the buck stops with me,
(01:14):
this has been a relatively uncomfortable year for Jason Garrett, Bobby.
You know, we have had years in the past where
you know, Jason's only had one losing season, but sometimes
his ability to be a successful in game manager has
come under scrutiny. And we just talked about this on
the pod a few episodes ago. Here we are again.
(01:35):
But I think what is standing out to me right
now is, you know, we've often argued and I've often said, yeah,
when people ask me about the hot seat for Jason,
I'm always like it's warm because the way the players
perform from the locker room and Jerry, liking the devil
that he knows, this seat all of a sudden feels
scalding hot. Based on not only is comments on Sunday
(01:58):
after just four point lost the Patriots. I don't care
what Titman says, given the weather, uh, given that you're
going up against a guy like Bill Belichick and Tom
Brady to only lose this game by four points, I
saw a moral victory there, but you also felt like
coaching cost you the game. The fact that Jerry didn't
take his foot off the gas pedal and continued going
(02:21):
after the coaching staff, and I thought the most telling
was him saying that the coaches out there are by
his decision. It felt like, uh, somebody saying like you
you are there at the pleasure of the king, is
what it felt like. This all of a sudden feels uncomfortable.
And I talked to a team source, Bobby, and I asked,
I said, you know, was that just tough talk from
Jerry Jones on the radio? In other words, you're trying
(02:43):
to light a fire. You know, it's like your dad saying,
you know, you're I've had it. You know, you're grounded
for a month, You're the phone's getting taken away, don't
come out of your room. And then two days later
it's you know, it's fine. I was told Jerry is pissed.
That was the words that were used to me via text.
And then I said, what does that mean? It says
(03:03):
I don't know. Was the response back. That is from
a good team source. You know, this brings to mind
that it was just a few weeks ago, and as
I read my text, this was back on October fourteen.
I had asked about Garrett's job security then to a
team source and I was told too early to jump
ship too early to build one too. The thing is,
you can look up and we are thirteen and three
(03:24):
or hell, three and thirteen, So I think right now
it's premature to take either side. But added then circle
back on Monday. That was in October. Here we are
in November, and what's the record now, Bobby. It's six
and five, so not three and thirteen, not thirteen and three,
but it's closer to eight and eight, which eight and
eight is a hell no one wants to have again,
(03:44):
because this is something that you don't want to kind
of just float in the middle. And that's always kind
of been Jason Garrett's reputation, I think from the outside
is that he's an eight and eight coach. He's an
average coach. He's a coach for an average football team.
And I think that they recognize is that. What was
the quote from Jerry after the game, He said something
to the effective this team is too talented for me
(04:06):
to be this frustrated or or something like that. I
don't think an eight and eight coach is going to
cut it anymore. And so if this team comes away
eight and eight or nine and seven, or somewhere along
those lines, I think Jason Garrett's time is probably up
because I think Jerry Jones recognizes this team should be
better than that well, and I think that there's also
some ownership. I think there's some parts when I'm listening
(04:26):
to Jerry talk him taking ownership when he my favorite quote, actually,
I think it's just the best if we play it
for him. This was on one three the Fan this morning.
Only Jerry can sum up what it's like to own
a football team by using Jello as an example. Listen, man,
running one of these football teams, and when you run
it the way that I do and with the help
(04:47):
that I've got, it's like holding two handfuls of Jello,
and about the time you think you've got it, called
crowd over on one part of your hands, it's coming
out the fingers on the and so but I'll tell
you this, Uh, in no way are you listening to
the smallest Miley and in the world. I'm the luckiest
(05:09):
guy on this planet. But what he's essentially saying there
is he spent a ton of money on this roster
in the off season. He went and made it, made
changes at the offensive coordinator position, went and got you
a Sean McVeigh two point oh, was how it was
sold to us and how we were told this thing
was gonna go. Got John Kittner to work with Dak
on his mechanics, which we don't talk about enough. I
think that's an area that Jerry should be proud of.
(05:31):
That's an area that's worked. But I think what he's
frustrated about is I think he's looking back on last
season and going, should I have made the change it? Then?
Should we have brought Jason back on this one year
prove it deal? Because I'm getting the sense that he
feels like, you know, we've been talking about this window
closing for years. His biggest regret, what's his biggest regret?
(05:53):
What does he always say? Bobby oh Um, I'm blanking here.
I'm not talking about just in general. He says one
of his biggest regrets is that he didn't get Tony
Romo a championship. He feels like he wasted the talent
of DeMarco Murray, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and Tony Romoan
didn't get them a ring. We are now we talked
(06:13):
about this the other day. We are now going to
be entering the fifth year of Ezekiel Elliott and Dak
Prescott's career. We are seeing that offensive line, that great
Wall of Dallas sort of deteriorating a little bit, and
I got to think that Jerry's going this window is
getting a lot closer to being shut than I wanted
it to. It was the last year that Troy Aikman
(06:36):
won a Super Bowl was his seventh year in the league.
So by his seventh year in the league, he had
already won three Super Bowls. His troits fourth year in
the league, he won his first Super Bowl. We are
at Dak Prescott's fourth year in the league, and I
think that Jerry is cognizant of he saw how quickly
a young team fell apart when he was able to
build a contender, and I think he's feeling like, you
(06:57):
know what, this is around the time that last team
jailed together, and so I don't have time to waste
on this. If Jerry Ardy is sort of thinking back
to last year's decision and wondering if he made the
right call, that to me almost sounds like Jason's fate
is sealed and this is gonna just run its course
and and short of a Super Bowl, a miracle run
that gets you a super Bowl. I think it is
Super Bowl or bust for Jason's future here. If they
(07:19):
do not make the super Bowl, I don't think he's back.
And I go back on back and forth on this one, Bobby,
because I do respect the hell of the Garrett. I
respect the fact that that locker room. I mean, I've
never once heard this team waiver on this guy, not once,
And even when you go in the locker room there today,
and even when I've gotten these guys off to the
side and privately, they never bag on Jason Garrett. And
(07:42):
I know Dak Prescott loves that guy too. So I
struggle with the fact you bring in in a new
voice of new coaching staff, sometimes that doesn't always work.
And again I always used the Texas football as as
as an example. Didn't quite work down there ever since
she got rid of mc brown. How did Charlie Strong
work out for you? How's Tom Herman worked out for you?
(08:05):
A new voice doesn't always work right, And then I
always go back to this personal connection he seems to
fuel with Jason. Of course his dad, and you know
you had Jed Garrett on the staff, his brother. But
if he was willing to not let Tony Romo compete
for his job, and he was willing to say goodbye
to de Marcus Ware and say goodbye to Marco Murray
and say goodbye to Dez Bryant. I think he's capable
(08:27):
of severing this emotional connection to Jason Garrett. And to
your point, it feels different. It feels different around here.
It does. And I think that this is also not
just the window of this team. I think it's also
Jerry's window of being a day to day, you know,
overseer of what things are doing. And he is getting older. Bro,
(08:49):
he's that guy. I don't know if he's at a
stem transplant. I don't know if he's going to a
low teath center. I have never seen a guy with
more energy. And Jerry Jones and I always go back to,
you know, when we talk about the Ezekiel Elliott signing.
That thing went well into the night. The thing went
until three o'clock, four o'clock in the morning, and then
Jerry was up talking to investors about this Comstock Energy deal.
(09:11):
He rang the bell in the New York Stock Exchange.
I had friends on Wall Street. He said he was
shaking hands and garnering public sentiment for this new risky
business venture. And then he's on the plane the next day,
hopping up on stage and announcing Ezekiel Elliott and this
new contract with the team. Well right behind him, Ezekiel
It goes to get up there, and Ezekiel It kind
of trips on the step and it was hilarious to
(09:33):
me because it was what we see here. I've never
seen a guy was so much energy. I turned thirty
nine this year, and I feel like the wheels are
slowing down Jerry. In the time that I've covered this
team since two thousand three, on and off, he feels
like he's gotten more rejuvenated, more energized. And I feel
like this is like one of those gambles that just
(09:54):
drives the nuts at night. He feels like he's thrown
all the resources. I mean, if you come out here
to this facility, it is world class. He has dumped
all of his money, his emotions, his time, his livelihood
into this team and he has not reaped the benefits
of it since the since the mid nineties. Yeah, and
I and I do think that while he is energetic
(10:16):
and he is you know, always ripped, roaring to go.
I mean, he is nearing eighty, though, and and time
does catch up with everybody. And I think that he
probably just feels like he made a deal with the devil.
That's true, that's right. But I do think he probably
looks at this and goes like, you know, I want
to see this through. And I made this point recently,
and this is where I kind of struggle with this
(10:38):
is that I believe I don't know that if you
believe this, I'll get your thoughts, but I believe that
this core, not every single player, but this general core
of the roster. I think eventually they're going to win
a Super Bowl. Do you think that's gonna happen? I
don't know. If it's this year, I don't know, if
it's four years from now, whatever it may be. There
would be something a little bit Jay and Garrett has
(11:00):
had a huge part in this. He fought for Dak
Prescott that was a big player that he liked. Um,
you know, He's done a lot to kind of build
this culture. And and so for all these frustrations, it
would feel a little like the Colts would in the
Super Bowl without Edgren James, like right after he left.
If this team were to see it come together, come
(11:21):
to fruition without Jason Garrett, because he was such a
big part of I think structure, and I think there
would be a little kind of regret on the part
of everybody that, man, it's it's tough. We couldn't get
this done while Jason was here. People in the building.
I'dent phil for Jason. Honestly, you know, you're supposed to
take emotions out of it and be credible as a journalist,
and I certainly approached this job that way. But you
(11:44):
do form connections with people. And while Jason and I
would say probably don't see eye to eye on everything,
I have always appreciated who he is as a human,
as a person, the way that that he's connected with
his players, his consistency, he's not iranic, he doesn't leak stories,
he's not he's not ego driven. And we see that
(12:07):
in the league. I mean, this league attracts a certain
personality and that's not who Jason is. And I respect that.
And if you talked to a lot of people across
the league, from former players to teammates to coaches, they'll
tell you the same thing. And so I'm not one
of those that celebrates the fact that this has been
a tough year for Jason. I hate it for him.
In fact, I often wonder what it's gonna look like
(12:29):
when he is able to free himself of the handcuffs
that come with coaching an organization like this, the scrutiny,
the the attention. I often wonder what Jason Garrett would
be like with a team like Cleveland. He's from Ohio.
That's a great young team. You don't You don't think
Jarvis Landry, Baker Mayfield and Odell Beckham Jr. Would be
(12:49):
interesting for him to coach or to see what he
could do up in New York. And I think New
York is gonna get the same level of scrutiny. But
I've always thought Ohio would be in Cleveland would be
an interesting team for him. I can see Jason getting
it done one day, and people are gonna say I'm
crazy for saying that, but I believe that about it.
You know, and this has been suggested before by people.
I think is that another organization where it might be
(13:09):
interesting to see if he'd be able to operate well
would be take a look at like a team like Washington,
which has sort of the same eccentric, high maintenance ownership
and has probably more than anything else needed a steady hand,
has needed that type of you know, consistency and leadership.
I mean that there are plenty of places where I
think the Jason Garrett model could lead to success. I
(13:31):
just wonder if at this point, not in any sort
of you know, negative way, like things are sour between
him and the players. I just wonder if that message
has gotten as far as it possibly can with this
group of players, and somebody else is going to have
to come in here to push it over the edge.
I just look at it a little bit like Gwyneth
Paltrow and Chris Morton, like there needs to be a
(13:54):
conscious uncoupling. You know, the sparks have faded, there's no
real lust in the relationship anymore. They can be friends
moving forward. It just honestly might be in both parties
best interests. And in the end, Gwyneth gets custody of Apple,
so he would go to the big Apple and take
over the giants. Is that we're going to take the
(14:14):
analogy that far? Well? I mean, then we could get
in the whole analogy about she didn't actually live with
her newly minted husband because they wanted to live in
separate houses for a while. And yeah, and then they
all go on vacation together but out. But I could
see Jason still going on offseason vacations with the Jones family,
even as a coach for another team. So if we
(14:34):
want to go there, yea does. Bryant still sits in
a suite with Jerry at like concerts and stuff. So yeah,
I mean there's no hard feelings there, I guess, but yeah,
I do. It does feel a little bit like the
times running out for Jason Garrett, and I think that
for a lot of guys in that locker room, for
a lot of players, I think that that's starting to
(14:55):
rest with them a little bit like we're running out
of time too. If we want this guy here with us,
if if we believe in him, if this is the
guy we want to be in the foxhole with, we're
running out of time to make sure he's here alright,
well joining us now? Is uh one of my buddies.
It's r J o Choa. He is the r J.
What would be your exact title, You're like, what head
(15:15):
writer something like that, that blogging the boys. I think
you know, the paycheck titles as producer, but it's really
just kind of whatever is necessary. You know, some days
it's different. Some days it's one thing, it's the other.
But it's all fun and that's really what matters the most.
And r J, I feel like we should add to
your byline recent media Darling, you got two shoutouts on
(15:36):
one of my favorite football programs in the morning, Good
Morning Football. I think we've got some quick audio of that. Peter,
do you follow the fan blog blog and the Boys
Cowboys Blog? Absolutely, it's basically like Arrowhead Pride, but for
the Cowboys and these guys hit it hard. The idea
that like well with Dallas and enough of us give
it to Zeke. Let's go through doc. What do you got?
(15:57):
You know what she's going. You're talking about dog with
the Boys, Dallas Cowboys, Dak Prescott. And then I put
Kelly Moore down on here too, because this is the
biggest surprise of me. Now you mentioned blog with the Boys,
and I had a little friendly banter with them. This
is similar. And Dak Prescott will throw on my list,
and you know why I put him with their own list.
(16:18):
He's struggled on the red zone previously guy never thrown
for more than four thousan yard of career, so I
just didn't know what I was gonna get. Well, guess
what we're getting and what we're seeing for Dak Prescott. Yeah,
that was really cool. Um, I appreciate it. Uh. You know,
bt b UH is something that we strive to be
kind of like a hub for people that love the Cowboys,
and so that was really awesome. I mean, those are
two great guys, and I love everything NFL Network and
(16:41):
so it's always fun to see you when stuff makes
it play around the internet. The boys legitimized. I loved it. Well,
we respect the heck out of your work. That's why
I wanted to get you on here because there is
a lot to dissect as it relates to this Cowboys team. Yeah,
and r J, I know you were actually in Foxborough
for that tough loss to the Patriots, and so you
weren't getting a lot of the same live analysis from
the TV and reactions. You were getting unadulterated reactions for yourself.
(17:04):
What were your impressions, I guess, just of how that
game was managed and did you take away from it
leaving that stadium that this was a game that was
on the coaching staff more than anybody else. Or what
were your impressions from that loss? Uh? You know, I um,
it felt slow, I guess being there um certainly. I mean,
I know the weather had a lot to do with it.
Um And it felt I don't know, it felt like
(17:27):
sort of predetermined in a weird way, like you know
it It didn't have the feel of like this is
the moment. You know, even when you know they got
the ball back, you know, with two minutes left and
you thought, maybe this is something that's gonna kind of
turned the wheels around, it wasn't. It didn't materialize. I mean,
it just it felt like they went up there and
they just kind of went through the motions to some degree.
(17:48):
I think the weather had a lot to do with that,
but it, you know, I'll say this, the tripping thing
didn't feel as aggressive live. I think that was something
that the broadcast really sort of pushed over the edge.
But it just felt like something that was going to happen,
and that ultimately did happen. With that being said r J,
I know treyatements on the broadcast that there are no
(18:08):
moral victories. I actually looked at this one as a
moral victory in the sense and a reason that I
continue to maintain that this roster isn't garbage. You went
up to New England in those conditions and you kept
this game within four points, a game that it felt
like they could have won. That to me is what
(18:28):
was the most frustrating about this, And I've got to
think it was the most frustrating to Jerry Jones. I
feel like that's what really drew his ire after this one,
because you didn't feel like the Cowboys weren't necessarily in
this one. They throughout the year, they haven't gotten blown
out of these games. It's just it's the slow starts,
it's the penalties, it's the way they shoot themselves in
(18:48):
the foot. And I think that's why he's laser focused
on the coaching staff, even though today when we're in
the locker room, the players are so quick to take
ownership and say, at the end of the day, they
got to execute the place. What's your takeaway? What are
your thoughts on that? Yeah? So I do think there's
a lot of um hindsight greediness, right because you you
look at it and you say, Okay, we only lost
(19:10):
by four points whatever. And I think to your point,
you know, if somebody had told you know, any Cowboys
fan in June when they were kind of you know,
everybody's looking at the schedule saying, oh, I think they're
gonna win this. We're they're gonna lose that one. They said,
you know, the weather will be horrible in New England
and you'll lose by four points. I think people would say, well, then,
you know the cow was obviously probably played a pretty
close game. I think it's you know, this is a
(19:30):
little greedy because I think it's the way that it happened.
That's why I think people are focused on the details.
I mean, you've you've come into that game with the
number one offense in the NFL by most metrics, and
you don't even score a touchdown. And I know the
weather and the defense had allow to do with that,
but I do think it's the fact that you know
it was there. I think you know, you had a
missed field goal, they had two missed field goals. You
know the fact that the only touchdown of the game
(19:50):
came off of a mistake and a blocked punt. And
so it's one of those things where when you know,
reverse analyze that, you say, well, you know, yeah, the
Cowboys should have won this game. And I think that
it's a level of greed, but it's in this particular case,
maybe a level of fairness because it was such a
game that you know, the Patriots are the Patriots, and
you didn't you didn't run into that. You know, if
Tom Brady throws for four yards and four touchdowns against you,
(20:13):
you just, you know, you kind of swallowed that and
say that's Tom Brady, but he wasn't that person. The
Patriots didn't do anything exemplary. Felt like it felt like
the Cowboys just kind of stumbled over their own seat.
And that's I think where people are most frustrated. This
feels a little bit to me. I don't I don't
know if you'd agree with this, but I'm interested for
your sake. This feels a little bit to me like
for the first time in Jason Garrett's tenure, there's always
(20:35):
been some issue. You know, the defense is porous and
you haven't you know, the Dez should have caught it
type of thing, or or the injuries that happened to
Romo and and and Dez, and there's always some reason
for things. This to me feels like the first year
where the excuses have kind of run out and this
is starting to feel like it's on the coaching staff
and these shortcomings are problems with the coaching staff. Would
(20:58):
you agree that that's kind of the I guess temperature
of this team at the moment. Yeah. I think that
you can probably isolate maybe a season's worth of games
over the last decade to kind of, you know, your
your Garrett mis Q collection, so to speak. I think,
you know, like Arizonaven when the ice stand Bailey is
one of those games, and it feels like there's one
or two of them every year, but this does feel
(21:20):
like the lowest point, and I think it's sort of
the perfect storm and that you know, you had this
opportunity to get this quote unquote signature win that everybody's
looking for. You were on the road in New England,
of all places you were in this game. You were
so close. It was a one possession game, and Jason
Garrett has talked so much about that, how they believe
that you've got to be able to win those in
the NFL, and you know the fact that they keep
(21:43):
it's it's it's one thing to lose, but it's another
thing to lose because of your own self induced decisions.
And I think that people are really looking at the
fourth and seven one and I think I think there
is some nitpicking in that. You know, two weeks against
the Minnesota Vikings, it's, you know, all the criticism is, well,
you decided to run on second and two and art
into and now it's you decided to pass on second
and seven and third and seven instead of making fourth
(22:04):
down manageable so that you could go for it. And
maybe people are a little bit aggressive there, but I
think ultimately they've been worn so thin on Jason Garrett said,
if this had happened in the second or third year
of his tenure with the Cowboys, I don't know that
it's as big of a deal. But because it is
the ninth full season, because it is a contractor because
you know, the division is so up for grabs, and
(22:24):
you are in this position where everybody's you know, so
achy for a Super Bowl, for an NFC Championship Game appearance.
I think it's just reached the boiling points that people
are quicker to lash out than they have been in
seasons past. It is crazy because when you look at
Jason Garrett's record. You know, and I've long argued this,
if Jerry Jones decides to part ways with them because
(22:45):
of who he is, the way that the players continue
to vouch for him, play for him, believe in him,
there are going to be, at least in my opinion,
a handful of teams there to want Jason Garrett is
their head coach. What's different about Dallas is, you know,
I went to the University of Texas. It's sort of
the same thing. It's it's a win now mentality. And
what I think is interesting is that you know, Jerry
(23:06):
is so he is so risky and in business over
the years, but he has been so safe as it
pertains to keeping Jason Garrett as the head coach. But
NFL research had this nugget that came out and honestly,
it just sort of blew my mind. It It's something
that I knew but I sort of needed. Right in
front of me. There are seven coaches since two thousand
and eleven who have been with their current team. Of
(23:27):
those seven coaches, Jason Garrett is the only coach to
not take his team to a Super Bowl. That is
wild to me. I mean, you go down the list,
Ron Rivera is on the list. You know, you've got
Sean Payton hardballs on the list, but the fact that
he hasn't been able to get that done. And when
this is a we've been hearing in Dallas a win, Uh,
(23:47):
the window is closing mentality here. And then you consider
this year r J. I mean, this was a soft
schedule by all accounts. When you look at the front
end of their schedule, you look at the fact they
haven't had any significant injuries. Are really losses of players
to suspension, um, So it's not like you're looking at
the Eagles who lost a quarterback one year or the
offensive line. I think that's what's gotten in Jerry's cross
(24:09):
space more than anything. Like I had already heard how
livid he was after the Rams game when they felt
when they came up short, and I know that there
were some things going on behind the scenes back then.
You know Jerry that the wheels were turning. But then
he allows Jason to come back this year, and everybody
had such high expectations. If you go in that locker
room or j they had high expectations for themselves and
(24:30):
to have this record, I just I don't know about you,
and this is my long way of getting this to you,
but I had been willing to say that Jerry will
continue to stay the course with Jason because every year
he gets them thinking that they're this close, and this
team continues to buy in. It feels different right now,
and to your point, it does feel like there are
more games this year that you can put on Jason
(24:52):
Garrett than you can put on the players. I think
that's what I said. I think the injury and suspension
point is a really good one because you know it's
you know, well, you know we were down Greg Hardy
for part of the season. You know, we we lost
Randy Gregory. I mean, you know this and that. I mean,
obviously the Tony Romo season is sort of the albatross
and all of it. I would even add to that
this season, beyond the fact that it's been an easy schedule,
(25:13):
just on full face value, they've also they drew the
Saints without Drew Brees. You know, they drew the Packers
without Davonte Adams and the Viacings with that Adam feeling.
And yeah, they beat the lines of that Matthew Stafford,
but they drew the Patriots without you know, uh, Philip
dor said, and Mohammedanknew and Jason mccordy, and so those
are the things that you know, it's so frustrating to
consider how they could have lost. And I also think, um,
(25:34):
you know, it hasn't just been and I think this
is where patients for a lot of people is just
so worn out. It's not just that Jason gurd is
potentially losing games to characterize it that way, it's it's
the the aftermath of it has been so strange. I mean,
you know better than anybody that he's normally quite the pro,
you know, behind a microphone and he's he's normally really polished,
(25:55):
and he's normally, you know, really unaffected by whatever is happening.
But it feels like this Eason he's had moments where
he's been a little bit more aggressive, Uh maybe a
little bit more and I don't mean to throw this
word out in a negative context, a little bit more arrogant.
You know. The way he handled the aftermath of the
Vikings loss was very interesting. I know you had pressed
him about the Tavon Austin fair catch thing, and you know,
(26:16):
coming out after this game talking about analytics the way
he has it's it's a really you know, it's an
interesting sort of point that he has maybe reached. You know,
there's clearly, um not the most uh you know, lovable
energy happening there, and for good reason. I mean know
it's a contractor, it's a stressful thing, but this is
you know, it's I think the point that people are
(26:37):
also at is now you're at a stage where the
offensive line is starting to show signs of injury, you know,
and you're not in you know, maybe the beginning of
this window. Now you're people are starting to see an
expiration date on things like that. And so while you
had this team, you had this unit, and you had
all these reasons to be excited about the future, maybe
that's going to be wasted. And that's something that I
don't know that anybody wants to truly and totally realize
(26:58):
because that will mean now you start over in some
other capacities. You know. You bring up an interesting point,
r J. I was thinking about this morning. If I'm
Jason Garrett, I start nixing that Monday morning interview with
Seawan and r J one three the fan. I love
those guys so much, but I feel like Jason keeps
walking into things there after tough losses, because it was
(27:18):
there that he admitted that, you know that Tavon Austin
had the options at fair Catch. It was there that
he admitted that they didn't have the you know, these
analytics in game, and that's what everybody's sort of jumping on.
And it's almost like he's in It's he's by his
own in mission. He's giving people fodder as to why
he is inept at his job. And so if I'm
(27:40):
Jason Garrett, this is just food for thought, and I'm
not trying to to hurt Sean and r J. These
are those are my guys, and I think they do
such tremendous job with these interviews. I'm not doing that
Monday morning anymore. Well, And I mean before you even
hit on that, r J, remember that his exit interview
last year, his very last interview with them at the
end of last year, was letting him mercy over Scott's
coming back and then hold on and Jason, you know,
(28:01):
we haven't made any decisions yet. And so if he
even stretching back to the tail end of last year,
he's had several of these interview gaps there. Yeah, I mean,
and you know, I totally agree. I mean, I think
Sean and Arjer first, you know, r J, the astutely
named ARJ, but uh, you know, they're they're so good
at their job that he is. I don't know, I
think he's kind of hurting your brand a little bit.
(28:21):
J I'm kidding if he's not listening to this because
he doesn't listening to sports, um, but you know, that's
that's never been Jason Garrett though, like he he's so
you know, pristine that I've I've found it very interesting.
You're right, Bobby. The Scottlandahan thing was very interesting at
the tail end of last season, but the this week
has been so specifically interesting because I'm I'm not trying
(28:45):
to call him a liar, but I don't believe for
a second that he doesn't find value in analytics, you know.
I mean, I don't know if he's covering for somebody.
I don't know if he's just bored, if he's just
you know, totally apathetic. But it's seems like to your point, Jane,
there's there's no real merit to acknowledging. Yeah, we we
totally refute something that could help our team. It's a
(29:08):
very strange pattern of behavior that that feels uncommon for
him from what we've seen Fred Deckett, especially a guy
that's Princeton educated, you would think that you want all
the knowledge. Yeah, but then at that point, which really
which which side trump switch? The Princeton educated, high minded
guy or the dug in. Dad's been in football since
(29:28):
the fifties when it was you know, jumbo personnel with running.
I feel like a lot of his thoughts about football
that were built by his dad and from the air.
His dad came up through run counter to what analytics say. Now,
but how crazy is it that you buy in into
the combine? The combine is all about analytics, predictive behavior.
What you expect a linebacker will perform based on the
(29:50):
success of a linebacker with that wingspan, etcetera. So you
buy into that, but you don't buy into this probability.
And it's interesting when he admitted this. I don't know
if you guys listen to Michael Bennett's audio last week
or Jesse Holly when you talked to us, I knew
this team was in trouble when you when they talked
about Belichick before, like literally prepares for every probability. And
(30:12):
then you literally heard Jason Garrett say, we do not
prepare for every probability. That's what I took away from
that this week. It's funny. I remember UM back last November,
Tom Robinson, who is the director of Football Research for
the Cowboys, which is essentially the analytics title UM and
and Tom's a really sharp guy. Tom has been on
staff at Northwestern as a math professor. And I remember
(30:35):
who's on hanging with the boys last year and they
asked him, Shannon Gross asked him as they were going away.
He said, uh, he says one last quick question for you.
He said, should you ever punt on fourth and short?
Or should you just go for it? And Tom Robinson
smiled really big and said, I don't think I'm allowed
to answer that question. Thanks guys, because it probably runs
counter to the type of decisions that they make. But well,
(30:57):
they didn't use the analytics guy either when they Ezekie
elatest continent there that I think that would have said
not to do that, but to stay away from an
I think it's interesting when you look at this, though,
and you start looking at the types of names that
may be in the running if the Cowboys do move
on from Jason Garrett, Urban Meyer, I know, is the
Vegas favorite right now. I don't know that I buy that.
I think that's just a better favorite as all. Um.
(31:19):
But when you start looking at some of these names,
who are some of the names you think could be
in contention? Who do you think we'll start hearing swirling
around this job? But real quick, r J. I mean,
as much as I'm not like the biggest fan of
this urban Meyer thing, when you consider how many Ohio
State guys are on the Saints team, I mean it's
kind of like Ohio State South. Look how well that's
translated from Maybe it's not a terrible thing to have
the Ohio State pipeline down here. Sure, well, I think
(31:42):
the Ohio State you know, urban Meyer idea is interesting
because obviously, you know this um, this particular situation with
the Cowboys involves Jerry Jones, and you know, everybody will
say Jerry is not getting any younger, and so there's
a lot of schools of thought to that. You know,
is Jerry in a win now in pality, is the
window closing whatever? And Urban is this guy who has
(32:03):
this reputation to come in, get his title, get out,
and maybe that accomplishes you know, that sort of short
term goal for Jerry what would be to win another
Super Bowl. So I think that that makes sense from
that capacity. Obviously it's got a lot of you know,
lure to it, and it has a lot of clips
and clamor that would you know, sort of fill a
lot of other Cowboys checkboxes. But I know, Bobby, you
said Chris Peterson, I think that makes sense, especially if
(32:24):
you're gonna you know, sort of camp in with with
Kellen Moore and that have, you know, have that be
the foundation of your offense. I do if I had to,
you know, go to Vegas and figure something out here,
I do think that you know, you're it makes sense
given where the Cowboys organization is that especially with their
brain trusts and their points of leadership. I don't know
that it makes sense to sort of start anew with
(32:46):
a Lincoln Riley, with you know, a young guy. I think,
you know, it makes sense for somebody who's been there
and done that in the NFL, because you know, maybe
if you're the Cowboys, you figure we're so close, We've
we've got all this talent, We've got all these players
under contract. We just need somebody to come in and
kind of the CEO, which is irounded considering that's kind
of Jason Garrett's strength and a lot of capacities, and
I think that that would lend do Jack del Rio,
(33:08):
that would lend to you know, John Fox, I mean,
you know, that would lend the names like Jeff Fisher.
I don't know that. Again, I I don't subscribe to this.
I mean, if I'm in charge here, I don't know
that you know, those are even anybody that I would
want to be interviewed. But I think that that makes
(33:29):
sense for the composition of this team and the composition
of this ownership, because I mean, you look at teams
that have kind of hit the reset button with these
young uh you know, Matt Lafleur and Kyle Shanahan's their
teams that you know, seemingly have a lot of time,
a lot of rope to play with, and so they're
willing to devote some time and some patients. And the
one thing that Cowboys have kind of run out of
(33:49):
is time and patients. They gave it all to Jason Garrett,
and so now you know, they've sort of taken this
ball in ninety nine yards and they need somebody to
get it across the goal line. I don't know that
Robert sala is able to do that. Maybe it is
a retreat guy and somebody who knows you're building, like
Matt Eberfluch. But I mean, I I know that, you know,
the circumstances of the ownership seemed to be a more
(34:11):
relevant factor for the Cowboys than they would any other NFL.
What I love about Matt Eberflus is how much this
team really respected him and how much Rod Marinelli loved
him and Rod supported him. You know, as a head
coaching candidate, I know it's a guy that loves this area.
His daughters are now in college. It would be fascinating
to see a guy like Abra Fluce back here. But
you know, you guys, especially you have really dug in
(34:32):
on this Peterson candidate. Why so. Chris Peterson was the
head coach at Boise State. He when Kellen Moore was
drawn on there Dallas, he brought. He brought Boise State
to prominence. He built a culture there that the Cowboys
have very publicly said they love the mindset and the
mentality of guys that come out of Boise that was
Chris Peterson's creation. Um, so it would be something that
(34:53):
would be a mindset transition here as somebody who, if
you decided to keep Kellen Moore, would be close with
Kellen Moore, has a good relationship up with him, and
they could coach together. Uh. And then I mean he
went on to Washington where Washington had strong recruiting classes
for years but struggled to be above five hundred. And
as soon as he went there, they're turning out Marcus
Peters and Vita Vea and guys are reaching their NFL
potential while they're there. So I think people just view
(35:15):
him as a guy who can help these guys reach
their highest potential, can build a strong culture, and I
just I think it would make a lot of sense
with what Dallas is trying to do to give that
a shot. Bobby has literally been banging his fist on
the table for Peterson. I hope that you're getting that's
that's mine. And now I gotta say, well, we'll wrap
(35:35):
here with just this question. Well we'll go around the
table real quick. R J. I'll let you start. Who
is the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys Week one season.
Oh man, um, you know right now I'll say Jason Garrett. Well, well,
I know, I mean because there isn't there isn't a
dot to connect that makes a lot of sense. A
(35:57):
name that you didn't mention Bobby that you have mentioned
the lot uh certainly off there and stuff is Dan Mullen.
I think that's another name to watch because the most
important in the Cowboys building right now is Jack Prescott,
and so you have to, you know, sort of surround
that with what makes the most sense, that's the most
manageable for him, especially because you're gonna give him a
big time contract. But because there is not this supreme
doctor connect and because at the time that we're having
(36:19):
this conversation, the Cowboys are in first place in the
NFC East. I mean, for all we know, they get
into the tournament, they make some noise, and you know,
while while it does seem like Jason Garrett kind of
has one foot out the door, I mean, the reality
is he has shown an ability or his teams have
at least to kind of bring themselves back in. And
so until that chapter is completely close, it's hard to
(36:40):
discount because it's it's looked this way many many many
times before, and you know the following June, in July,
Jason Garrett is wearing shorts and a shirt out in
ox North, California. So it's it's one of those things
that you kind of you know, you'll you'll believe it
when you see it. But if it's not Jason Garrett,
I'll say this, I would probably I've i you're Chris
Jeterson thing, and that would be my sort of one beat. Okay,
(37:03):
so you've got Jason Garrett, Jane has Jason. If it's
not Garrett, who are you saying? Are you saying Aberflus?
I don't think it would be eber Flus, but I
think he would be a compelling candidate that they should
take a hard look at. If I was to go say, like,
you know, put down twenty bucks on a name for
head coach week, I'm gonna say it's Mike Zimmer. I
think that I think I think in Minnesota falls short.
(37:24):
I think he's probably done. And they say, well, it's
on the same list. If you look at that list
that I gave you that the seven coaches with their
current team since two thousand eleven, his record is him
and Ron Rivera, have an almost identical record to Jason
Garrett Zimmer, So to me, that's a Laurel movie. I
think Zimmer. I think Zimmer. It's a guy they're familiar with.
It's a defensive minded guy, and I think it's somebody
that they believe has championship pedigree, being that he was
(37:46):
here when they had their nineties. I think in Terrence
new it will come back with him. I think in
the end, familiarity is where they go, whether that's Jason Garrett,
or they go with a former player who's got a
great relationship with Stephen like Jack del Rio, or they
go with Mike Zimmer, who's been in this bill name before,
or you know that one of the other wild card names.
And I know you and I discussed he's going to
be out of a job soon. Dan Quinn a guy
(38:08):
who's coached a team to a super Bowl, guy who
has familiarity with the Seattle concepts, a guy who's known
for being kind of the raw raw like pump guys
up guy. I think dan Quinn would be interesting. It's
just a name. It would um. I buy a lot
of that. I do think it has to be a
familiar name, but you know, Ron Rivera obviously interviewed for
the job in two thousand seven. One wage Phillips got it.
But but I agree with Jane that if you're gonna
(38:29):
do any of that, and I mean, I'm not saying
you shouldn't make a move simply because you can't find
a better one, but that is a lateral move. I mean,
if if the point is comfortability, then I mean, what's
more familiar and comfortable than what's been the situation for
the last decade. R J. We appreciate you, man. You
can follow him on Twitter at r J o Choa
(38:50):
And uh, like I said, he does great work over
blog in the Voice dot com. She's check it out.
R J. I thinks so much. Man. Appreciated. Guys, have
a good and happy Thanksgiving. Thank you well. We were
looking at pretend sual guests to talk to about this
game with the Buffalo Bills, and there is nobody more
qualified that we could think of than Eric would. Eric
was the center for the Buffalo Bills for nine seasons,
(39:10):
retiring after and he is now the color analyst for
the Bills radio team. You can follow him on Twitter
at Ewood seventy. Eric, thanks so much for joining us. Yeah,
my pleasure. So you've been around this organization for a
long time. Eight and three start a lot of people
excited about the potential of the seam, about this defense,
about some of the growth that Josh Allen is shown. Um.
(39:34):
But at the same time, the Cowboys ad into this
game with the Cowboys where both teams have yet to
win a game against a team that's been above five
hundred at the time of the game. Uh, what do
you make of this Buffalo Bills team right now and
and their makeup and their trajectory heading into this stretch
run of the season. Yeah, they they've handled their business
this season. They're eight and three. The only real game
that um, you know, they they played a disappointing performance
(39:57):
and let one slip away was probably the Cleveland game
where they go to and to the two and six
Cleveland Browns and missed two field goals um won a
chip shot and end up losing the game by three points.
But other than that, this team has played extremely consistent
all season long. The defense has been phenomenal. There third
in the year, third in the league in yards per game,
(40:18):
third in yards per play UM their third in the
league and past yards per game third in the league
and points. I mean, they've just been phenomenal. And then
these last couple of weeks. Now, um, it's been against
the Dolphins two weeks ago. Um, but the Broncos last
week came in with the fourth ranked defense in the league,
and the Bill's offense these last two weeks has looked
(40:40):
really well. Uh, they've done a really good job of
putting points on the board. Um, They've they've gone to
more of a no huddle than they were using earlier
in the season, and that seemed to work well for them.
Josh Allen seems extremely comfortable in it. So the Bills
have to like where they're at right now. It's their
best start to a season since x so. UM, you
(41:02):
know Bill's fans are excited, but UM, you know, I
guess everybody. And like you mentioned, with um, both teams
not winning against the team with a winning record on
the year, I guess there's um still some cautious optimism
up in Western New York. I gotta tell you, I'm
personally disappointed that this one's not getting played in Buffalo,
one of my favorite spots to travel and cover a
(41:24):
game for the NFL Network. It is truly. If fans
listening to this podcast haven't been to Buffalo for a game,
it is the real deal. It is as advertised. But
you talked about the excitement. What is Josh Allen doing
there for that fan base? I mean, I I sort
of love that he has reminded New York that they
are in fact the New York team for them. But
(41:45):
what is it that stands out about him as both
a quarterback and a leader in that locker room? Yeah?
I think the people of Buffalo, the fan base, they
absolutely love him, and they love what he brings to
the table. They love who he is in the community.
You mentioned, Um, he made that snark market at the
reporters at MetLife when they said, you know, hey, you
could have been playing in New York. He said, no,
(42:07):
I do I play in New York. I'm the only
team in New York. So Bill's family love, Bill's fans
love what he's all about. UM. What they want to
know is he the franchise quarterback in UM. Coming off
the Cleveland game a couple of weeks ago, a lot
of people were asking questions up there, and and and
when I try to give some perspective up there, he's
(42:28):
twenty two years old. He's getting better and better. Just
be patient with him, and don't don't um live and
die with every decision that he makes. Let him get better,
let him take chances down the field and see what
works and see what doesn't work. In these last two games,
he's played absolutely phenomenal. But um, you know, the first
four games of the season this year, he had the
(42:49):
most turnovers in the NFL. Since then, least turnovers in
the NFL. So he's getting better and better making better
decisions with the football, and um so so fans are
excited about him up there. You know, at times I
feel like myself, um, just knowing how tough it is
to play the quarterback position, especially at a young age
(43:10):
in the NFL. I probably a little easier on him
than even some of the fan bases. But but everybody
up there just wants who's going to be the next
Jim Kelly and and there's been so many quarterbacks sinci
then since they've had a true franchise quarterback, and everybody
just wants Josh to be that guy so bad. And
I think they put so much pressure on him. But um,
(43:31):
I think he's doing a great job. Of just continuing
to get better and better. One of the big questions
about Josh Allen when he was coming out was about
some of his accuracy issues and was he can ever
going to be the type of guy that could be
accurate enough to warrant being one of the top ten selections. Um,
it's been spotty at times, but I know he's he's
greatly improved this year. Belief his completion percentages up by
(43:53):
like eight percentage points this year. And one of the
fun notes we were researching and found out was that
when he completes six of his ass Buffalo's tenan oh,
and when he's under it there three and ten. So
is it as it seems, is this team kind of
how Josh Allen goes? So goes the Buffalo Bills. You know,
I actually referenced that's that on the air last week,
so so I'm with you on it. But but yes,
(44:16):
this season, he's he's above on the year. Last year.
He was a fifties something percent, a fifty six percent
passer last year. So a lot has been made of
the accuracy issues. And another tidbit on that is everyone said,
well he can only throw the deep ball. Well prior
to two weeks ago. He didn't complete a pass this
season that traveled over twenty yards in the air, but
(44:38):
on throws nineteen yards and closer to the line of scrimmage,
he had the highest passer rating in the NFL. So
he he's kind of flipped the script on a number
of different things. Now in the past couple of games,
they've been able to connect on a couple of deep balls,
which helps the art of stats. It helps um, you know,
boost some numbers and all that. But yes, he he's
(44:59):
making better to decisions with the football this year. UM.
And some of the things he's doing is just taking
what the defense gives him. First off coverage, UM, just
taking an easy completion underneath John Brown on the outside
is an absolute burner. Well, at times they'll give him
a ten yard cushion. Well, there was a run play
in the game last week against the Broncos on second
and five, Josh Allen just simply UM slings the ball
(45:21):
to the outside. They convert the first down, and that
it was a run play. But with that kind of coverage,
that's an easy completion, that's an extended handoff. UM. And
And so he's doing better things. UM. In that regard Um,
But but yes, coming out of college, it was you know,
he's got this huge arm um, but he's not accurate enough.
(45:41):
I don't think I don't think anybody understood it what
kind of athlete he was gonna be as well. His
his rushing numbers are also um really good this year,
almost four hundred yards on the ground. Um came into
last game with seven touchdowns on the ground, just having
a great year running the football as well. Well. One
of the guys that the Cowboys fans know pretty well
(46:02):
around here is Cole Beasley. You and him could have
a flow contest for both having awesome blonde locks. Uh.
For fans that aren't familiar with Eric Whig, Yeah, what
has been your impression of Cole so far and how
he's acclimated to that offense in Buffalo and and the
way that he's been able to get involved there with
Josh Allen. Yeah, Cole has had a good season, and
(46:23):
he actually had a phenomenal preseason. I think he had
such a good free season that he garnered a lot
of tension early in the season from opposing defenses, which
really opened it up for John Brown. But Cole Beasley
is a young quarterbacks dream because of what he can
do in the slot in in verse owe coverage. He's
great at finding um spots to sit and then verse man.
(46:47):
He's a matchup nightmare for a lot of nickel corners
UM in the NFL. But last game, UM, the weakness
of the Broncos team. They've had some they've been a
little banged up in the second and they put a
nickel cornerback, a young guy and Duke Dawson on Cole
Beasley and then Cole has six receptions for seventy six
yards in a touchdown on only nine targets. So UM,
(47:10):
Josh Allen Uh and Cole Beasley it seems like since
training camp have had a great relationship and and Cole's
great for for Josh. He's played a lot of football
in this league, UM Coles in his eight years, so
he's able to kind of tell Josh, here's what I'm
looking for. This is what I'm gonna do. You know, UM,
if this is an option route in the in the
DBS outside of me, I went the ball coming to
(47:30):
my inside before I even break. Just know that's where
I'm going in UM. He's been great for him and
I know Cole is looking forward to going back to
Dallas this week, where he played, uh in a number
of games for the for the Dallas Cowboys, and they
chose not to re sign him, and I'm sure he'll
go back to Dallas motivated this week. Yeah. What we
(47:50):
did learn about Cole Beasily during his time here was
he was incredibly competitive, always had an edge to him
and I don't expect him to pull an Eric Wettle
and withhold anything about this Cowboys organs and he might
be the Bill's secret weapon this week, um as it
pertains this game. Hey, Eric, thank you so much for
jumping on the show. We really appreciate perspective and uh
look forward to seeing you guys here on Thanksgiving. Absolutely
my pleasure. Have a great Thanksgiving. Thanks so much. This
(48:13):
is going to be important for the Cowboys. They have
yet to get a win against a team with a
winning record. The Bills come in here with one at
eight and three. The Cowboys quick injury report Laton Vanderish
once again ruled out of this one. Antoine would also
out the defensive tagrapher the Cowboys with an m c
L injury, Marii Cooper, though not on the injury report
for the first time this season, so some positivity, but
(48:35):
the last two weeks they haven't gotten a whole lot
out of out of Marian Uh. You know, the Bills
have struggled at times to stop the ball. That's the
one weakness they've had. You gotta imagine they're gonna load
up against the run and and give some single coverage look.
So it's going to be a big week for Mark
Cooper to step up in this game, and I look
forward to a lighter podcast. I don't take joy in
these heavy ones, so hopefully we are turning the page
(48:56):
a little bit for Jason Garrett and this team when
we come to you next
Hello, Boys and Girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell, a Cowboys community with the
inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to
you from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby.
(00:29):
I'm just really frustrated. I thought we could come up
here and really put together a better effort on all
three phases. When you're general manager, of which I am,
those coaches are out there at my Altamont decision, her
Majesty's pleasure. I don't think there's a game that a
coaching staff has areas that it couldn't do better. I
just don't like it that we've got so many. As
(00:52):
I'm standing here tonight, we just gotta focus on coaching's
balls with counterplan as well as with camp first rule
of leadership. Everything is your thought. There certainly was some
things in the game that we have to get better
app and we're gonna work on that as a staff
and as a football team. Added to we flect leaves,
shoot captain, but again our eyes are forward on Buffalo.
At the end of the day, the buck stops with me,
(01:14):
this has been a relatively uncomfortable year for Jason Garrett, Bobby.
You know, we have had years in the past where
you know, Jason's only had one losing season, but sometimes
his ability to be a successful in game manager has
come under scrutiny. And we just talked about this on
the pod a few episodes ago. Here we are again.
(01:35):
But I think what is standing out to me right
now is, you know, we've often argued and I've often said, yeah,
when people ask me about the hot seat for Jason,
I'm always like it's warm because the way the players
perform from the locker room and Jerry, liking the devil
that he knows, this seat all of a sudden feels
scalding hot. Based on not only is comments on Sunday
(01:58):
after just four point lost the Patriots. I don't care
what Titman says, given the weather, uh, given that you're
going up against a guy like Bill Belichick and Tom
Brady to only lose this game by four points, I
saw a moral victory there, but you also felt like
coaching cost you the game. The fact that Jerry didn't
take his foot off the gas pedal and continued going
(02:21):
after the coaching staff, and I thought the most telling
was him saying that the coaches out there are by
his decision. It felt like, uh, somebody saying like you
you are there at the pleasure of the king, is
what it felt like. This all of a sudden feels uncomfortable.
And I talked to a team source, Bobby, and I asked,
I said, you know, was that just tough talk from
Jerry Jones on the radio? In other words, you're trying
(02:43):
to light a fire. You know, it's like your dad saying,
you know, you're I've had it. You know, you're grounded
for a month, You're the phone's getting taken away, don't
come out of your room. And then two days later
it's you know, it's fine. I was told Jerry is pissed.
That was the words that were used to me via text.
And then I said, what does that mean? It says
(03:03):
I don't know. Was the response back. That is from
a good team source. You know, this brings to mind
that it was just a few weeks ago, and as
I read my text, this was back on October fourteen.
I had asked about Garrett's job security then to a
team source and I was told too early to jump
ship too early to build one too. The thing is,
you can look up and we are thirteen and three
(03:24):
or hell, three and thirteen, So I think right now
it's premature to take either side. But added then circle
back on Monday. That was in October. Here we are
in November, and what's the record now, Bobby. It's six
and five, so not three and thirteen, not thirteen and three,
but it's closer to eight and eight, which eight and
eight is a hell no one wants to have again,
(03:44):
because this is something that you don't want to kind
of just float in the middle. And that's always kind
of been Jason Garrett's reputation, I think from the outside
is that he's an eight and eight coach. He's an
average coach. He's a coach for an average football team.
And I think that they recognize is that. What was
the quote from Jerry after the game, He said something
to the effective this team is too talented for me
(04:06):
to be this frustrated or or something like that. I
don't think an eight and eight coach is going to
cut it anymore. And so if this team comes away
eight and eight or nine and seven, or somewhere along
those lines, I think Jason Garrett's time is probably up
because I think Jerry Jones recognizes this team should be
better than that well, and I think that there's also
some ownership. I think there's some parts when I'm listening
(04:26):
to Jerry talk him taking ownership when he my favorite quote, actually,
I think it's just the best if we play it
for him. This was on one three the Fan this morning.
Only Jerry can sum up what it's like to own
a football team by using Jello as an example. Listen, man,
running one of these football teams, and when you run
it the way that I do and with the help
(04:47):
that I've got, it's like holding two handfuls of Jello,
and about the time you think you've got it, called
crowd over on one part of your hands, it's coming
out the fingers on the and so but I'll tell
you this, Uh, in no way are you listening to
the smallest Miley and in the world. I'm the luckiest
(05:09):
guy on this planet. But what he's essentially saying there
is he spent a ton of money on this roster
in the off season. He went and made it, made
changes at the offensive coordinator position, went and got you
a Sean McVeigh two point oh, was how it was
sold to us and how we were told this thing
was gonna go. Got John Kittner to work with Dak
on his mechanics, which we don't talk about enough. I
think that's an area that Jerry should be proud of.
(05:31):
That's an area that's worked. But I think what he's
frustrated about is I think he's looking back on last
season and going, should I have made the change it? Then?
Should we have brought Jason back on this one year
prove it deal? Because I'm getting the sense that he
feels like, you know, we've been talking about this window
closing for years. His biggest regret, what's his biggest regret?
(05:53):
What does he always say? Bobby oh Um, I'm blanking here.
I'm not talking about just in general. He says one
of his biggest regrets is that he didn't get Tony
Romo a championship. He feels like he wasted the talent
of DeMarco Murray, Jason Witten, DeMarcus Ware and Tony Romoan
didn't get them a ring. We are now we talked
(06:13):
about this the other day. We are now going to
be entering the fifth year of Ezekiel Elliott and Dak
Prescott's career. We are seeing that offensive line, that great
Wall of Dallas sort of deteriorating a little bit, and
I got to think that Jerry's going this window is
getting a lot closer to being shut than I wanted
it to. It was the last year that Troy Aikman
(06:36):
won a Super Bowl was his seventh year in the league.
So by his seventh year in the league, he had
already won three Super Bowls. His troits fourth year in
the league, he won his first Super Bowl. We are
at Dak Prescott's fourth year in the league, and I
think that Jerry is cognizant of he saw how quickly
a young team fell apart when he was able to
build a contender, and I think he's feeling like, you
(06:57):
know what, this is around the time that last team
jailed together, and so I don't have time to waste
on this. If Jerry Ardy is sort of thinking back
to last year's decision and wondering if he made the
right call, that to me almost sounds like Jason's fate
is sealed and this is gonna just run its course
and and short of a Super Bowl, a miracle run
that gets you a super Bowl. I think it is
Super Bowl or bust for Jason's future here. If they
(07:19):
do not make the super Bowl, I don't think he's back.
And I go back on back and forth on this one, Bobby,
because I do respect the hell of the Garrett. I
respect the fact that that locker room. I mean, I've
never once heard this team waiver on this guy, not once,
And even when you go in the locker room there today,
and even when I've gotten these guys off to the
side and privately, they never bag on Jason Garrett. And
(07:42):
I know Dak Prescott loves that guy too. So I
struggle with the fact you bring in in a new
voice of new coaching staff, sometimes that doesn't always work.
And again I always used the Texas football as as
as an example. Didn't quite work down there ever since
she got rid of mc brown. How did Charlie Strong
work out for you? How's Tom Herman worked out for you?
(08:05):
A new voice doesn't always work right, And then I
always go back to this personal connection he seems to
fuel with Jason. Of course his dad, and you know
you had Jed Garrett on the staff, his brother. But
if he was willing to not let Tony Romo compete
for his job, and he was willing to say goodbye
to de Marcus Ware and say goodbye to Marco Murray
and say goodbye to Dez Bryant. I think he's capable
(08:27):
of severing this emotional connection to Jason Garrett. And to
your point, it feels different. It feels different around here.
It does. And I think that this is also not
just the window of this team. I think it's also
Jerry's window of being a day to day, you know,
overseer of what things are doing. And he is getting older. Bro,
(08:49):
he's that guy. I don't know if he's at a
stem transplant. I don't know if he's going to a
low teath center. I have never seen a guy with
more energy. And Jerry Jones and I always go back to,
you know, when we talk about the Ezekiel Elliott signing.
That thing went well into the night. The thing went
until three o'clock, four o'clock in the morning, and then
Jerry was up talking to investors about this Comstock Energy deal.
(09:11):
He rang the bell in the New York Stock Exchange.
I had friends on Wall Street. He said he was
shaking hands and garnering public sentiment for this new risky
business venture. And then he's on the plane the next day,
hopping up on stage and announcing Ezekiel Elliott and this
new contract with the team. Well right behind him, Ezekiel
It goes to get up there, and Ezekiel It kind
of trips on the step and it was hilarious to
(09:33):
me because it was what we see here. I've never
seen a guy was so much energy. I turned thirty
nine this year, and I feel like the wheels are
slowing down Jerry. In the time that I've covered this
team since two thousand three, on and off, he feels
like he's gotten more rejuvenated, more energized. And I feel
like this is like one of those gambles that just
(09:54):
drives the nuts at night. He feels like he's thrown
all the resources. I mean, if you come out here
to this facility, it is world class. He has dumped
all of his money, his emotions, his time, his livelihood
into this team and he has not reaped the benefits
of it since the since the mid nineties. Yeah, and
I and I do think that while he is energetic
(10:16):
and he is you know, always ripped, roaring to go.
I mean, he is nearing eighty, though, and and time
does catch up with everybody. And I think that he
probably just feels like he made a deal with the devil.
That's true, that's right. But I do think he probably
looks at this and goes like, you know, I want
to see this through. And I made this point recently,
and this is where I kind of struggle with this
(10:38):
is that I believe I don't know that if you
believe this, I'll get your thoughts, but I believe that
this core, not every single player, but this general core
of the roster. I think eventually they're going to win
a Super Bowl. Do you think that's gonna happen? I
don't know. If it's this year, I don't know, if
it's four years from now, whatever it may be. There
would be something a little bit Jay and Garrett has
(11:00):
had a huge part in this. He fought for Dak
Prescott that was a big player that he liked. Um,
you know, He's done a lot to kind of build
this culture. And and so for all these frustrations, it
would feel a little like the Colts would in the
Super Bowl without Edgren James, like right after he left.
If this team were to see it come together, come
(11:21):
to fruition without Jason Garrett, because he was such a
big part of I think structure, and I think there
would be a little kind of regret on the part
of everybody that, man, it's it's tough. We couldn't get
this done while Jason was here. People in the building.
I'dent phil for Jason. Honestly, you know, you're supposed to
take emotions out of it and be credible as a journalist,
and I certainly approached this job that way. But you
(11:44):
do form connections with people. And while Jason and I
would say probably don't see eye to eye on everything,
I have always appreciated who he is as a human,
as a person, the way that that he's connected with
his players, his consistency, he's not iranic, he doesn't leak stories,
he's not he's not ego driven. And we see that
(12:07):
in the league. I mean, this league attracts a certain
personality and that's not who Jason is. And I respect that.
And if you talked to a lot of people across
the league, from former players to teammates to coaches, they'll
tell you the same thing. And so I'm not one
of those that celebrates the fact that this has been
a tough year for Jason. I hate it for him.
In fact, I often wonder what it's gonna look like
(12:29):
when he is able to free himself of the handcuffs
that come with coaching an organization like this, the scrutiny,
the the attention. I often wonder what Jason Garrett would
be like with a team like Cleveland. He's from Ohio.
That's a great young team. You don't You don't think
Jarvis Landry, Baker Mayfield and Odell Beckham Jr. Would be
(12:49):
interesting for him to coach or to see what he
could do up in New York. And I think New
York is gonna get the same level of scrutiny. But
I've always thought Ohio would be in Cleveland would be
an interesting team for him. I can see Jason getting
it done one day, and people are gonna say I'm
crazy for saying that, but I believe that about it.
You know, and this has been suggested before by people.
I think is that another organization where it might be
(13:09):
interesting to see if he'd be able to operate well
would be take a look at like a team like Washington,
which has sort of the same eccentric, high maintenance ownership
and has probably more than anything else needed a steady hand,
has needed that type of you know, consistency and leadership.
I mean that there are plenty of places where I
think the Jason Garrett model could lead to success. I
(13:31):
just wonder if at this point, not in any sort
of you know, negative way, like things are sour between
him and the players. I just wonder if that message
has gotten as far as it possibly can with this
group of players, and somebody else is going to have
to come in here to push it over the edge.
I just look at it a little bit like Gwyneth
Paltrow and Chris Morton, like there needs to be a
(13:54):
conscious uncoupling. You know, the sparks have faded, there's no
real lust in the relationship anymore. They can be friends
moving forward. It just honestly might be in both parties
best interests. And in the end, Gwyneth gets custody of Apple,
so he would go to the big Apple and take
over the giants. Is that we're going to take the
(14:14):
analogy that far? Well? I mean, then we could get
in the whole analogy about she didn't actually live with
her newly minted husband because they wanted to live in
separate houses for a while. And yeah, and then they
all go on vacation together but out. But I could
see Jason still going on offseason vacations with the Jones family,
even as a coach for another team. So if we
(14:34):
want to go there, yea does. Bryant still sits in
a suite with Jerry at like concerts and stuff. So yeah,
I mean there's no hard feelings there, I guess, but yeah,
I do. It does feel a little bit like the
times running out for Jason Garrett, and I think that
for a lot of guys in that locker room, for
a lot of players, I think that that's starting to
(14:55):
rest with them a little bit like we're running out
of time too. If we want this guy here with us,
if if we believe in him, if this is the
guy we want to be in the foxhole with, we're
running out of time to make sure he's here alright,
well joining us now? Is uh one of my buddies.
It's r J o Choa. He is the r J.
What would be your exact title, You're like, what head
(15:15):
writer something like that, that blogging the boys. I think
you know, the paycheck titles as producer, but it's really
just kind of whatever is necessary. You know, some days
it's different. Some days it's one thing, it's the other.
But it's all fun and that's really what matters the most.
And r J, I feel like we should add to
your byline recent media Darling, you got two shoutouts on
(15:36):
one of my favorite football programs in the morning, Good
Morning Football. I think we've got some quick audio of that. Peter,
do you follow the fan blog blog and the Boys
Cowboys Blog? Absolutely, it's basically like Arrowhead Pride, but for
the Cowboys and these guys hit it hard. The idea
that like well with Dallas and enough of us give
it to Zeke. Let's go through doc. What do you got?
(15:57):
You know what she's going. You're talking about dog with
the Boys, Dallas Cowboys, Dak Prescott. And then I put
Kelly Moore down on here too, because this is the
biggest surprise of me. Now you mentioned blog with the Boys,
and I had a little friendly banter with them. This
is similar. And Dak Prescott will throw on my list,
and you know why I put him with their own list.
(16:18):
He's struggled on the red zone previously guy never thrown
for more than four thousan yard of career, so I
just didn't know what I was gonna get. Well, guess
what we're getting and what we're seeing for Dak Prescott. Yeah,
that was really cool. Um, I appreciate it. Uh. You know,
bt b UH is something that we strive to be
kind of like a hub for people that love the Cowboys,
and so that was really awesome. I mean, those are
two great guys, and I love everything NFL Network and
(16:41):
so it's always fun to see you when stuff makes
it play around the internet. The boys legitimized. I loved it. Well,
we respect the heck out of your work. That's why
I wanted to get you on here because there is
a lot to dissect as it relates to this Cowboys team. Yeah,
and r J, I know you were actually in Foxborough
for that tough loss to the Patriots, and so you
weren't getting a lot of the same live analysis from
the TV and reactions. You were getting unadulterated reactions for yourself.
(17:04):
What were your impressions, I guess, just of how that
game was managed and did you take away from it
leaving that stadium that this was a game that was
on the coaching staff more than anybody else. Or what
were your impressions from that loss? Uh? You know, I um,
it felt slow, I guess being there um certainly. I mean,
I know the weather had a lot to do with it.
Um And it felt I don't know, it felt like
(17:27):
sort of predetermined in a weird way, like you know
it It didn't have the feel of like this is
the moment. You know, even when you know they got
the ball back, you know, with two minutes left and
you thought, maybe this is something that's gonna kind of
turned the wheels around, it wasn't. It didn't materialize. I mean,
it just it felt like they went up there and
they just kind of went through the motions to some degree.
(17:48):
I think the weather had a lot to do with that,
but it, you know, I'll say this, the tripping thing
didn't feel as aggressive live. I think that was something
that the broadcast really sort of pushed over the edge.
But it just felt like something that was going to happen,
and that ultimately did happen. With that being said r J,
I know treyatements on the broadcast that there are no
(18:08):
moral victories. I actually looked at this one as a
moral victory in the sense and a reason that I
continue to maintain that this roster isn't garbage. You went
up to New England in those conditions and you kept
this game within four points, a game that it felt
like they could have won. That to me is what
(18:28):
was the most frustrating about this, And I've got to
think it was the most frustrating to Jerry Jones. I
feel like that's what really drew his ire after this one,
because you didn't feel like the Cowboys weren't necessarily in
this one. They throughout the year, they haven't gotten blown
out of these games. It's just it's the slow starts,
it's the penalties, it's the way they shoot themselves in
(18:48):
the foot. And I think that's why he's laser focused
on the coaching staff, even though today when we're in
the locker room, the players are so quick to take
ownership and say, at the end of the day, they
got to execute the place. What's your takeaway? What are
your thoughts on that? Yeah? So I do think there's
a lot of um hindsight greediness, right because you you
look at it and you say, Okay, we only lost
(19:10):
by four points whatever. And I think to your point,
you know, if somebody had told you know, any Cowboys
fan in June when they were kind of you know,
everybody's looking at the schedule saying, oh, I think they're
gonna win this. We're they're gonna lose that one. They said,
you know, the weather will be horrible in New England
and you'll lose by four points. I think people would say, well, then,
you know the cow was obviously probably played a pretty
close game. I think it's you know, this is a
(19:30):
little greedy because I think it's the way that it happened.
That's why I think people are focused on the details.
I mean, you've you've come into that game with the
number one offense in the NFL by most metrics, and
you don't even score a touchdown. And I know the
weather and the defense had allow to do with that,
but I do think it's the fact that you know
it was there. I think you know, you had a
missed field goal, they had two missed field goals. You
know the fact that the only touchdown of the game
(19:50):
came off of a mistake and a blocked punt. And
so it's one of those things where when you know,
reverse analyze that, you say, well, you know, yeah, the
Cowboys should have won this game. And I think that
it's a level of greed, but it's in this particular case,
maybe a level of fairness because it was such a
game that you know, the Patriots are the Patriots, and
you didn't you didn't run into that. You know, if
Tom Brady throws for four yards and four touchdowns against you,
(20:13):
you just, you know, you kind of swallowed that and
say that's Tom Brady, but he wasn't that person. The
Patriots didn't do anything exemplary. Felt like it felt like
the Cowboys just kind of stumbled over their own seat.
And that's I think where people are most frustrated. This
feels a little bit to me. I don't I don't
know if you'd agree with this, but I'm interested for
your sake. This feels a little bit to me like
for the first time in Jason Garrett's tenure, there's always
(20:35):
been some issue. You know, the defense is porous and
you haven't you know, the Dez should have caught it
type of thing, or or the injuries that happened to
Romo and and and Dez, and there's always some reason
for things. This to me feels like the first year
where the excuses have kind of run out and this
is starting to feel like it's on the coaching staff
and these shortcomings are problems with the coaching staff. Would
(20:58):
you agree that that's kind of the I guess temperature
of this team at the moment. Yeah. I think that
you can probably isolate maybe a season's worth of games
over the last decade to kind of, you know, your
your Garrett mis Q collection, so to speak. I think,
you know, like Arizonaven when the ice stand Bailey is
one of those games, and it feels like there's one
or two of them every year, but this does feel
(21:20):
like the lowest point, and I think it's sort of
the perfect storm and that you know, you had this
opportunity to get this quote unquote signature win that everybody's
looking for. You were on the road in New England,
of all places you were in this game. You were
so close. It was a one possession game, and Jason
Garrett has talked so much about that, how they believe
that you've got to be able to win those in
the NFL, and you know the fact that they keep
(21:43):
it's it's it's one thing to lose, but it's another
thing to lose because of your own self induced decisions.
And I think that people are really looking at the
fourth and seven one and I think I think there
is some nitpicking in that. You know, two weeks against
the Minnesota Vikings, it's, you know, all the criticism is, well,
you decided to run on second and two and art
into and now it's you decided to pass on second
and seven and third and seven instead of making fourth
(22:04):
down manageable so that you could go for it. And
maybe people are a little bit aggressive there, but I
think ultimately they've been worn so thin on Jason Garrett said,
if this had happened in the second or third year
of his tenure with the Cowboys, I don't know that
it's as big of a deal. But because it is
the ninth full season, because it is a contractor because
you know, the division is so up for grabs, and
(22:24):
you are in this position where everybody's you know, so
achy for a Super Bowl, for an NFC Championship Game appearance.
I think it's just reached the boiling points that people
are quicker to lash out than they have been in
seasons past. It is crazy because when you look at
Jason Garrett's record. You know, and I've long argued this,
if Jerry Jones decides to part ways with them because
(22:45):
of who he is, the way that the players continue
to vouch for him, play for him, believe in him,
there are going to be, at least in my opinion,
a handful of teams there to want Jason Garrett is
their head coach. What's different about Dallas is, you know,
I went to the University of Texas. It's sort of
the same thing. It's it's a win now mentality. And
what I think is interesting is that you know, Jerry
(23:06):
is so he is so risky and in business over
the years, but he has been so safe as it
pertains to keeping Jason Garrett as the head coach. But
NFL research had this nugget that came out and honestly,
it just sort of blew my mind. It It's something
that I knew but I sort of needed. Right in
front of me. There are seven coaches since two thousand
and eleven who have been with their current team. Of
(23:27):
those seven coaches, Jason Garrett is the only coach to
not take his team to a Super Bowl. That is
wild to me. I mean, you go down the list,
Ron Rivera is on the list. You know, you've got
Sean Payton hardballs on the list, but the fact that
he hasn't been able to get that done. And when
this is a we've been hearing in Dallas a win, Uh,
(23:47):
the window is closing mentality here. And then you consider
this year r J. I mean, this was a soft
schedule by all accounts. When you look at the front
end of their schedule, you look at the fact they
haven't had any significant injuries. Are really losses of players
to suspension, um, So it's not like you're looking at
the Eagles who lost a quarterback one year or the
offensive line. I think that's what's gotten in Jerry's cross
(24:09):
space more than anything. Like I had already heard how
livid he was after the Rams game when they felt
when they came up short, and I know that there
were some things going on behind the scenes back then.
You know Jerry that the wheels were turning. But then
he allows Jason to come back this year, and everybody
had such high expectations. If you go in that locker
room or j they had high expectations for themselves and
(24:30):
to have this record, I just I don't know about you,
and this is my long way of getting this to you,
but I had been willing to say that Jerry will
continue to stay the course with Jason because every year
he gets them thinking that they're this close, and this
team continues to buy in. It feels different right now,
and to your point, it does feel like there are
more games this year that you can put on Jason
(24:52):
Garrett than you can put on the players. I think
that's what I said. I think the injury and suspension
point is a really good one because you know it's
you know, well, you know we were down Greg Hardy
for part of the season. You know, we we lost
Randy Gregory. I mean, you know this and that. I mean,
obviously the Tony Romo season is sort of the albatross
and all of it. I would even add to that
this season, beyond the fact that it's been an easy schedule,
(25:13):
just on full face value, they've also they drew the
Saints without Drew Brees. You know, they drew the Packers
without Davonte Adams and the Viacings with that Adam feeling.
And yeah, they beat the lines of that Matthew Stafford,
but they drew the Patriots without you know, uh, Philip
dor said, and Mohammedanknew and Jason mccordy, and so those
are the things that you know, it's so frustrating to
consider how they could have lost. And I also think, um,
(25:34):
you know, it hasn't just been and I think this
is where patients for a lot of people is just
so worn out. It's not just that Jason gurd is
potentially losing games to characterize it that way, it's it's
the the aftermath of it has been so strange. I mean,
you know better than anybody that he's normally quite the pro,
you know, behind a microphone and he's he's normally really polished,
(25:55):
and he's normally, you know, really unaffected by whatever is happening.
But it feels like this Eason he's had moments where
he's been a little bit more aggressive, Uh maybe a
little bit more and I don't mean to throw this
word out in a negative context, a little bit more arrogant.
You know. The way he handled the aftermath of the
Vikings loss was very interesting. I know you had pressed
him about the Tavon Austin fair catch thing, and you know,
(26:16):
coming out after this game talking about analytics the way
he has it's it's a really you know, it's an
interesting sort of point that he has maybe reached. You know,
there's clearly, um not the most uh you know, lovable
energy happening there, and for good reason. I mean know
it's a contractor, it's a stressful thing, but this is
you know, it's I think the point that people are
(26:37):
also at is now you're at a stage where the
offensive line is starting to show signs of injury, you know,
and you're not in you know, maybe the beginning of
this window. Now you're people are starting to see an
expiration date on things like that. And so while you
had this team, you had this unit, and you had
all these reasons to be excited about the future, maybe
that's going to be wasted. And that's something that I
don't know that anybody wants to truly and totally realize
(26:58):
because that will mean now you start over in some
other capacities. You know. You bring up an interesting point,
r J. I was thinking about this morning. If I'm
Jason Garrett, I start nixing that Monday morning interview with
Seawan and r J one three the fan. I love
those guys so much, but I feel like Jason keeps
walking into things there after tough losses, because it was
(27:18):
there that he admitted that, you know that Tavon Austin
had the options at fair Catch. It was there that
he admitted that they didn't have the you know, these
analytics in game, and that's what everybody's sort of jumping on.
And it's almost like he's in It's he's by his
own in mission. He's giving people fodder as to why
he is inept at his job. And so if I'm
(27:40):
Jason Garrett, this is just food for thought, and I'm
not trying to to hurt Sean and r J. These
are those are my guys, and I think they do
such tremendous job with these interviews. I'm not doing that
Monday morning anymore. Well, And I mean before you even
hit on that, r J, remember that his exit interview
last year, his very last interview with them at the
end of last year, was letting him mercy over Scott's
coming back and then hold on and Jason, you know,
(28:01):
we haven't made any decisions yet. And so if he
even stretching back to the tail end of last year,
he's had several of these interview gaps there. Yeah, I mean,
and you know, I totally agree. I mean, I think
Sean and Arjer first, you know, r J, the astutely
named ARJ, but uh, you know, they're they're so good
at their job that he is. I don't know, I
think he's kind of hurting your brand a little bit.
(28:21):
J I'm kidding if he's not listening to this because
he doesn't listening to sports, um, but you know, that's
that's never been Jason Garrett though, like he he's so
you know, pristine that I've I've found it very interesting.
You're right, Bobby. The Scottlandahan thing was very interesting at
the tail end of last season, but the this week
has been so specifically interesting because I'm I'm not trying
(28:45):
to call him a liar, but I don't believe for
a second that he doesn't find value in analytics, you know.
I mean, I don't know if he's covering for somebody.
I don't know if he's just bored, if he's just
you know, totally apathetic. But it's seems like to your point, Jane,
there's there's no real merit to acknowledging. Yeah, we we
totally refute something that could help our team. It's a
(29:08):
very strange pattern of behavior that that feels uncommon for
him from what we've seen Fred Deckett, especially a guy
that's Princeton educated, you would think that you want all
the knowledge. Yeah, but then at that point, which really
which which side trump switch? The Princeton educated, high minded
guy or the dug in. Dad's been in football since
(29:28):
the fifties when it was you know, jumbo personnel with running.
I feel like a lot of his thoughts about football
that were built by his dad and from the air.
His dad came up through run counter to what analytics say. Now,
but how crazy is it that you buy in into
the combine? The combine is all about analytics, predictive behavior.
What you expect a linebacker will perform based on the
(29:50):
success of a linebacker with that wingspan, etcetera. So you
buy into that, but you don't buy into this probability.
And it's interesting when he admitted this. I don't know
if you guys listen to Michael Bennett's audio last week
or Jesse Holly when you talked to us, I knew
this team was in trouble when you when they talked
about Belichick before, like literally prepares for every probability. And
(30:12):
then you literally heard Jason Garrett say, we do not
prepare for every probability. That's what I took away from
that this week. It's funny. I remember UM back last November,
Tom Robinson, who is the director of Football Research for
the Cowboys, which is essentially the analytics title UM and
and Tom's a really sharp guy. Tom has been on
staff at Northwestern as a math professor. And I remember
(30:35):
who's on hanging with the boys last year and they
asked him, Shannon Gross asked him as they were going away.
He said, uh, he says one last quick question for you.
He said, should you ever punt on fourth and short?
Or should you just go for it? And Tom Robinson
smiled really big and said, I don't think I'm allowed
to answer that question. Thanks guys, because it probably runs
counter to the type of decisions that they make. But well,
(30:57):
they didn't use the analytics guy either when they Ezekie
elatest continent there that I think that would have said
not to do that, but to stay away from an
I think it's interesting when you look at this, though,
and you start looking at the types of names that
may be in the running if the Cowboys do move
on from Jason Garrett, Urban Meyer, I know, is the
Vegas favorite right now. I don't know that I buy that.
I think that's just a better favorite as all. Um.
(31:19):
But when you start looking at some of these names,
who are some of the names you think could be
in contention? Who do you think we'll start hearing swirling
around this job? But real quick, r J. I mean,
as much as I'm not like the biggest fan of
this urban Meyer thing, when you consider how many Ohio
State guys are on the Saints team, I mean it's
kind of like Ohio State South. Look how well that's
translated from Maybe it's not a terrible thing to have
the Ohio State pipeline down here. Sure, well, I think
(31:42):
the Ohio State you know, urban Meyer idea is interesting
because obviously, you know this um, this particular situation with
the Cowboys involves Jerry Jones, and you know, everybody will
say Jerry is not getting any younger, and so there's
a lot of schools of thought to that. You know,
is Jerry in a win now in pality, is the
window closing whatever? And Urban is this guy who has
(32:03):
this reputation to come in, get his title, get out,
and maybe that accomplishes you know, that sort of short
term goal for Jerry what would be to win another
Super Bowl. So I think that that makes sense from
that capacity. Obviously it's got a lot of you know,
lure to it, and it has a lot of clips
and clamor that would you know, sort of fill a
lot of other Cowboys checkboxes. But I know, Bobby, you
said Chris Peterson, I think that makes sense, especially if
(32:24):
you're gonna you know, sort of camp in with with
Kellen Moore and that have, you know, have that be
the foundation of your offense. I do if I had to,
you know, go to Vegas and figure something out here,
I do think that you know, you're it makes sense
given where the Cowboys organization is that especially with their
brain trusts and their points of leadership. I don't know
that it makes sense to sort of start anew with
(32:46):
a Lincoln Riley, with you know, a young guy. I think,
you know, it makes sense for somebody who's been there
and done that in the NFL, because you know, maybe
if you're the Cowboys, you figure we're so close, We've
we've got all this talent, We've got all these players
under contract. We just need somebody to come in and
kind of the CEO, which is irounded considering that's kind
of Jason Garrett's strength and a lot of capacities, and
I think that that would lend do Jack del Rio,
(33:08):
that would lend to you know, John Fox, I mean,
you know, that would lend the names like Jeff Fisher.
I don't know that. Again, I I don't subscribe to this.
I mean, if I'm in charge here, I don't know
that you know, those are even anybody that I would
want to be interviewed. But I think that that makes
(33:29):
sense for the composition of this team and the composition
of this ownership, because I mean, you look at teams
that have kind of hit the reset button with these
young uh you know, Matt Lafleur and Kyle Shanahan's their
teams that you know, seemingly have a lot of time,
a lot of rope to play with, and so they're
willing to devote some time and some patients. And the
one thing that Cowboys have kind of run out of
(33:49):
is time and patients. They gave it all to Jason Garrett,
and so now you know, they've sort of taken this
ball in ninety nine yards and they need somebody to
get it across the goal line. I don't know that
Robert sala is able to do that. Maybe it is
a retreat guy and somebody who knows you're building, like
Matt Eberfluch. But I mean, I I know that, you know,
the circumstances of the ownership seemed to be a more
(34:11):
relevant factor for the Cowboys than they would any other NFL.
What I love about Matt Eberflus is how much this
team really respected him and how much Rod Marinelli loved
him and Rod supported him. You know, as a head
coaching candidate, I know it's a guy that loves this area.
His daughters are now in college. It would be fascinating
to see a guy like Abra Fluce back here. But
you know, you guys, especially you have really dug in
(34:32):
on this Peterson candidate. Why so. Chris Peterson was the
head coach at Boise State. He when Kellen Moore was
drawn on there Dallas, he brought. He brought Boise State
to prominence. He built a culture there that the Cowboys
have very publicly said they love the mindset and the
mentality of guys that come out of Boise that was
Chris Peterson's creation. Um, so it would be something that
(34:53):
would be a mindset transition here as somebody who, if
you decided to keep Kellen Moore, would be close with
Kellen Moore, has a good relationship up with him, and
they could coach together. Uh. And then I mean he
went on to Washington where Washington had strong recruiting classes
for years but struggled to be above five hundred. And
as soon as he went there, they're turning out Marcus
Peters and Vita Vea and guys are reaching their NFL
potential while they're there. So I think people just view
(35:15):
him as a guy who can help these guys reach
their highest potential, can build a strong culture, and I
just I think it would make a lot of sense
with what Dallas is trying to do to give that
a shot. Bobby has literally been banging his fist on
the table for Peterson. I hope that you're getting that's
that's mine. And now I gotta say, well, we'll wrap
(35:35):
here with just this question. Well we'll go around the
table real quick. R J. I'll let you start. Who
is the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys Week one season.
Oh man, um, you know right now I'll say Jason Garrett. Well, well,
I know, I mean because there isn't there isn't a
dot to connect that makes a lot of sense. A
(35:57):
name that you didn't mention Bobby that you have mentioned
the lot uh certainly off there and stuff is Dan Mullen.
I think that's another name to watch because the most
important in the Cowboys building right now is Jack Prescott,
and so you have to, you know, sort of surround
that with what makes the most sense, that's the most
manageable for him, especially because you're gonna give him a
big time contract. But because there is not this supreme
doctor connect and because at the time that we're having
(36:19):
this conversation, the Cowboys are in first place in the
NFC East. I mean, for all we know, they get
into the tournament, they make some noise, and you know,
while while it does seem like Jason Garrett kind of
has one foot out the door, I mean, the reality
is he has shown an ability or his teams have
at least to kind of bring themselves back in. And
so until that chapter is completely close, it's hard to
(36:40):
discount because it's it's looked this way many many many
times before, and you know the following June, in July,
Jason Garrett is wearing shorts and a shirt out in
ox North, California. So it's it's one of those things
that you kind of you know, you'll you'll believe it
when you see it. But if it's not Jason Garrett,
I'll say this, I would probably I've i you're Chris
Jeterson thing, and that would be my sort of one beat. Okay,
(37:03):
so you've got Jason Garrett, Jane has Jason. If it's
not Garrett, who are you saying? Are you saying Aberflus?
I don't think it would be eber Flus, but I
think he would be a compelling candidate that they should
take a hard look at. If I was to go say, like,
you know, put down twenty bucks on a name for
head coach week, I'm gonna say it's Mike Zimmer. I
think that I think I think in Minnesota falls short.
(37:24):
I think he's probably done. And they say, well, it's
on the same list. If you look at that list
that I gave you that the seven coaches with their
current team since two thousand eleven, his record is him
and Ron Rivera, have an almost identical record to Jason
Garrett Zimmer, So to me, that's a Laurel movie. I
think Zimmer. I think Zimmer. It's a guy they're familiar with.
It's a defensive minded guy, and I think it's somebody
that they believe has championship pedigree, being that he was
(37:46):
here when they had their nineties. I think in Terrence
new it will come back with him. I think in
the end, familiarity is where they go, whether that's Jason Garrett,
or they go with a former player who's got a
great relationship with Stephen like Jack del Rio, or they
go with Mike Zimmer, who's been in this bill name before,
or you know that one of the other wild card names.
And I know you and I discussed he's going to
be out of a job soon. Dan Quinn a guy
(38:08):
who's coached a team to a super Bowl, guy who
has familiarity with the Seattle concepts, a guy who's known
for being kind of the raw raw like pump guys
up guy. I think dan Quinn would be interesting. It's
just a name. It would um. I buy a lot
of that. I do think it has to be a
familiar name, but you know, Ron Rivera obviously interviewed for
the job in two thousand seven. One wage Phillips got it.
But but I agree with Jane that if you're gonna
(38:29):
do any of that, and I mean, I'm not saying
you shouldn't make a move simply because you can't find
a better one, but that is a lateral move. I mean,
if if the point is comfortability, then I mean, what's
more familiar and comfortable than what's been the situation for
the last decade. R J. We appreciate you, man. You
can follow him on Twitter at r J o Choa
(38:50):
And uh, like I said, he does great work over
blog in the Voice dot com. She's check it out.
R J. I thinks so much. Man. Appreciated. Guys, have
a good and happy Thanksgiving. Thank you well. We were
looking at pretend sual guests to talk to about this
game with the Buffalo Bills, and there is nobody more
qualified that we could think of than Eric would. Eric
was the center for the Buffalo Bills for nine seasons,
(39:10):
retiring after and he is now the color analyst for
the Bills radio team. You can follow him on Twitter
at Ewood seventy. Eric, thanks so much for joining us. Yeah,
my pleasure. So you've been around this organization for a
long time. Eight and three start a lot of people
excited about the potential of the seam, about this defense,
about some of the growth that Josh Allen is shown. Um.
(39:34):
But at the same time, the Cowboys ad into this
game with the Cowboys where both teams have yet to
win a game against a team that's been above five
hundred at the time of the game. Uh, what do
you make of this Buffalo Bills team right now and
and their makeup and their trajectory heading into this stretch
run of the season. Yeah, they they've handled their business
this season. They're eight and three. The only real game
that um, you know, they they played a disappointing performance
(39:57):
and let one slip away was probably the Cleveland game
where they go to and to the two and six
Cleveland Browns and missed two field goals um won a
chip shot and end up losing the game by three points.
But other than that, this team has played extremely consistent
all season long. The defense has been phenomenal. There third
in the year, third in the league in yards per game,
(40:18):
third in yards per play UM their third in the
league and past yards per game third in the league
and points. I mean, they've just been phenomenal. And then
these last couple of weeks. Now, um, it's been against
the Dolphins two weeks ago. Um, but the Broncos last
week came in with the fourth ranked defense in the league,
and the Bill's offense these last two weeks has looked
(40:40):
really well. Uh, they've done a really good job of
putting points on the board. Um, They've they've gone to
more of a no huddle than they were using earlier
in the season, and that seemed to work well for them.
Josh Allen seems extremely comfortable in it. So the Bills
have to like where they're at right now. It's their
best start to a season since x so. UM, you
(41:02):
know Bill's fans are excited, but UM, you know, I
guess everybody. And like you mentioned, with um, both teams
not winning against the team with a winning record on
the year, I guess there's um still some cautious optimism
up in Western New York. I gotta tell you, I'm
personally disappointed that this one's not getting played in Buffalo,
one of my favorite spots to travel and cover a
(41:24):
game for the NFL Network. It is truly. If fans
listening to this podcast haven't been to Buffalo for a game,
it is the real deal. It is as advertised. But
you talked about the excitement. What is Josh Allen doing
there for that fan base? I mean, I I sort
of love that he has reminded New York that they
are in fact the New York team for them. But
(41:45):
what is it that stands out about him as both
a quarterback and a leader in that locker room? Yeah?
I think the people of Buffalo, the fan base, they
absolutely love him, and they love what he brings to
the table. They love who he is in the community.
You mentioned, Um, he made that snark market at the
reporters at MetLife when they said, you know, hey, you
could have been playing in New York. He said, no,
(42:07):
I do I play in New York. I'm the only
team in New York. So Bill's family love, Bill's fans
love what he's all about. UM. What they want to
know is he the franchise quarterback in UM. Coming off
the Cleveland game a couple of weeks ago, a lot
of people were asking questions up there, and and and
when I try to give some perspective up there, he's
(42:28):
twenty two years old. He's getting better and better. Just
be patient with him, and don't don't um live and
die with every decision that he makes. Let him get better,
let him take chances down the field and see what
works and see what doesn't work. In these last two games,
he's played absolutely phenomenal. But um, you know, the first
four games of the season this year, he had the
(42:49):
most turnovers in the NFL. Since then, least turnovers in
the NFL. So he's getting better and better making better
decisions with the football, and um so so fans are
excited about him up there. You know, at times I
feel like myself, um, just knowing how tough it is
to play the quarterback position, especially at a young age
(43:10):
in the NFL. I probably a little easier on him
than even some of the fan bases. But but everybody
up there just wants who's going to be the next
Jim Kelly and and there's been so many quarterbacks sinci
then since they've had a true franchise quarterback, and everybody
just wants Josh to be that guy so bad. And
I think they put so much pressure on him. But um,
(43:31):
I think he's doing a great job. Of just continuing
to get better and better. One of the big questions
about Josh Allen when he was coming out was about
some of his accuracy issues and was he can ever
going to be the type of guy that could be
accurate enough to warrant being one of the top ten selections. Um,
it's been spotty at times, but I know he's he's
greatly improved this year. Belief his completion percentages up by
(43:53):
like eight percentage points this year. And one of the
fun notes we were researching and found out was that
when he completes six of his ass Buffalo's tenan oh,
and when he's under it there three and ten. So
is it as it seems, is this team kind of
how Josh Allen goes? So goes the Buffalo Bills. You know,
I actually referenced that's that on the air last week,
so so I'm with you on it. But but yes,
(44:16):
this season, he's he's above on the year. Last year.
He was a fifties something percent, a fifty six percent
passer last year. So a lot has been made of
the accuracy issues. And another tidbit on that is everyone said,
well he can only throw the deep ball. Well prior
to two weeks ago. He didn't complete a pass this
season that traveled over twenty yards in the air, but
(44:38):
on throws nineteen yards and closer to the line of scrimmage,
he had the highest passer rating in the NFL. So
he he's kind of flipped the script on a number
of different things. Now in the past couple of games,
they've been able to connect on a couple of deep balls,
which helps the art of stats. It helps um, you know,
boost some numbers and all that. But yes, he he's
(44:59):
making better to decisions with the football this year. UM.
And some of the things he's doing is just taking
what the defense gives him. First off coverage, UM, just
taking an easy completion underneath John Brown on the outside
is an absolute burner. Well, at times they'll give him
a ten yard cushion. Well, there was a run play
in the game last week against the Broncos on second
and five, Josh Allen just simply UM slings the ball
(45:21):
to the outside. They convert the first down, and that
it was a run play. But with that kind of coverage,
that's an easy completion, that's an extended handoff. UM. And
And so he's doing better things. UM. In that regard Um,
But but yes, coming out of college, it was you know,
he's got this huge arm um, but he's not accurate enough.
(45:41):
I don't think I don't think anybody understood it what
kind of athlete he was gonna be as well. His
his rushing numbers are also um really good this year,
almost four hundred yards on the ground. Um came into
last game with seven touchdowns on the ground, just having
a great year running the football as well. Well. One
of the guys that the Cowboys fans know pretty well
(46:02):
around here is Cole Beasley. You and him could have
a flow contest for both having awesome blonde locks. Uh.
For fans that aren't familiar with Eric Whig, Yeah, what
has been your impression of Cole so far and how
he's acclimated to that offense in Buffalo and and the
way that he's been able to get involved there with
Josh Allen. Yeah, Cole has had a good season, and
(46:23):
he actually had a phenomenal preseason. I think he had
such a good free season that he garnered a lot
of tension early in the season from opposing defenses, which
really opened it up for John Brown. But Cole Beasley
is a young quarterbacks dream because of what he can
do in the slot in in verse owe coverage. He's
great at finding um spots to sit and then verse man.
(46:47):
He's a matchup nightmare for a lot of nickel corners
UM in the NFL. But last game, UM, the weakness
of the Broncos team. They've had some they've been a
little banged up in the second and they put a
nickel cornerback, a young guy and Duke Dawson on Cole
Beasley and then Cole has six receptions for seventy six
yards in a touchdown on only nine targets. So UM,
(47:10):
Josh Allen Uh and Cole Beasley it seems like since
training camp have had a great relationship and and Cole's
great for for Josh. He's played a lot of football
in this league, UM Coles in his eight years, so
he's able to kind of tell Josh, here's what I'm
looking for. This is what I'm gonna do. You know, UM,
if this is an option route in the in the
DBS outside of me, I went the ball coming to
(47:30):
my inside before I even break. Just know that's where
I'm going in UM. He's been great for him and
I know Cole is looking forward to going back to
Dallas this week, where he played, uh in a number
of games for the for the Dallas Cowboys, and they
chose not to re sign him, and I'm sure he'll
go back to Dallas motivated this week. Yeah. What we
(47:50):
did learn about Cole Beasily during his time here was
he was incredibly competitive, always had an edge to him
and I don't expect him to pull an Eric Wettle
and withhold anything about this Cowboys organs and he might
be the Bill's secret weapon this week, um as it
pertains this game. Hey, Eric, thank you so much for
jumping on the show. We really appreciate perspective and uh
look forward to seeing you guys here on Thanksgiving. Absolutely
my pleasure. Have a great Thanksgiving. Thanks so much. This
(48:13):
is going to be important for the Cowboys. They have
yet to get a win against a team with a
winning record. The Bills come in here with one at
eight and three. The Cowboys quick injury report Laton Vanderish
once again ruled out of this one. Antoine would also
out the defensive tagrapher the Cowboys with an m c
L injury, Marii Cooper, though not on the injury report
for the first time this season, so some positivity, but
(48:35):
the last two weeks they haven't gotten a whole lot
out of out of Marian Uh. You know, the Bills
have struggled at times to stop the ball. That's the
one weakness they've had. You gotta imagine they're gonna load
up against the run and and give some single coverage look.
So it's going to be a big week for Mark
Cooper to step up in this game, and I look
forward to a lighter podcast. I don't take joy in
these heavy ones, so hopefully we are turning the page
(48:56):
a little bit for Jason Garrett and this team when
we come to you next
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