On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby discuss the back-and-forth comments from Jerry Jones about the security of Jason Garrett’s job, and talk about two candidates who have recently come available. Plus, Patrick Finley from the Chicago Sun-Times stops by to preview the Bears game. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, boys and girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell, a Cowboys community with the
inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to
you from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby.
(00:29):
I think all of us, including the fans, want to
win a damn football game. I don't have to tell
you things a bad everybody knows things about. It's like
holding two handfuls of jello. I am with some brag
as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore. I
want Jason to get it done. It is amazing how
much things could change in a week. Every decision that
I make over the next month will be with an
(00:52):
eye mind to get us in the super Bowl. Now
talks cheap right, say hell with the talking again. I
would normally say you're really smoking something. I normally would
say that, but I'm the older room. This is it, man,
this is what your grandchildren are going to be. Smooka.
But it's got the exclusive skills to get the job done.
So they collectively you can win a SAP for book.
But they're qualified people. I love him. I love him
(01:17):
for the for the man he wants to be, and
I love him for the man that he almost is,
in my opinion, to be coaching in the NFL nexture. Well,
I don't know about you, Bobby, but when I listened
to Jerry Jones over the last week talk about Jason Garrett,
it reminds me a little bit of being a thirty
(01:40):
five year old woman. Now. So when I set out
and if, if, if you can identify with this, you're not.
But stay with me here. When you get to a
certain age, I'm thirty nine, Bobby. Yeah, I know we've
been talking about age a lot today. Yes, I know
you're having mortality issues when you get to a certain age, Jerry,
of course, at seventy seven. So here's where my analogy
comes into play. As a woman, you start to realize, well,
(02:05):
maybe I'm not gonna date the sexiest guy in the room.
Maybe he's not going to be the most spontaneous guy
in the room. But this guy, Jason Garrett, checks a
lot of boxes off for me. He's dependable, he's got
a great college education, he's got a good job, he's
never gonna cheat on me. He brings me flowers every
(02:28):
single year for my birthday. He remembers anniversaries, you remembers
of special moments. And we've got Thursday date night at
Olive Garden. He always gets me breadsticks. And I've enjoyed
a sexy, spontaneous, passionate relationship with a man like Jimmy.
Man Our fights are explosive. In fact, I probably took
(02:49):
some of that trauma from that relationship into my new relationships.
And while there was all these fireworks, man, I finally
got my power back. I know who I am. I
got my mojo back. Do I want to give that
to someone like a Sean Payton out there? When it
just took me so long to get over Jimmy? But
(03:10):
everyone since then has been so vanilla. But at least
I can say Jason is one of the good ones. Now.
I I go home to my parents every year and
I say I'm done with him. He's not going to
get me the ring that I want. We just continue
to date. I'm not getting the ring that I want,
but he's a good guy. I don't know if I
want to get on match dot com and and swipe
(03:31):
right just yet? Are we still talking about Garrett you're
you're seeming to get really personal here. Jay, I'm a
lot of friends that taught to you about their relationships. Bobby,
I'm coming I'm coming from from surveying all my friends,
of course, But that's what it feels like when I
listened to Jerry talk about Jason, it feels like a
man who's settling. But there's been explosive news here on
(03:53):
Tuesday that Carolina Panthers have come up, come out, and
they fired a guy like Ron Rivera, who, by the way,
he did not have his franchise quarterback. He's a coach,
he made the playoffs four of the past six seasons,
coach of the Year twice in that stretch, made it
to the super Bowl, and fired. Yeah, I feel like
there's a couple of ways we can look at that
(04:15):
firing as relates to the Cowboys. It's they're they're not
in a totally dissimilar position. Um. I mean, they obviously
haven't lost their quarterback. But remember that. See, that's the
funny thing to me. He loses his quarterback, he gets fired.
Jason Garrett loses his quarterback. That's the excuse that he
gets to keep his job after going four and twelve. UM.
(04:36):
I do think it's funny though, that you know Ron Rivera.
We've pointed to this before that if you look across
the league, there is one guy that's a lame duck
head coach right now. That's Jason Garrett. Everybody else had
at least an extra year their contract running through. UM. Typically,
when you get to the last year of a deal
like Jason was, teams will either fire or extend at
that point UM. And so Ron Rivera was going to
(04:59):
be one of three coaches in the league who expired
next year, so it was fire extend time. They chose fire.
Those are those are always good coaches to look at
the guys who are heading into a final year as
potential options if you do move on. And those three
Anthony Lynn with the Chargers, a guy who has been
in this building before, was the running backs coach for
the Cowboys years ago. Uh. Ron Rivera a guy who
(05:21):
was interviewed the last time you did a coaching search
and you hired Wade Phillips. The other one is Mike Zimmer.
He has one year left after the season where he'll
get fired or extended likely And all three of those.
It's just interesting the time and as those three or
started to come up, those are all three guys who
have ties to this building. And look at the way
that Mike Zimmer's playing his team is playing for him
up in Minnesota. I mean this is there are a
(05:43):
playoff contending team right now. Uh you know, maybe Anthony Lynn,
I don't I don't know, every right, I don't know
if I don't know if Jerry looks at him the
way that he would cut again, Sean Payton was the
guy that this organization coveted. That makes no secret about that.
That that was in analogy. That was the girl you
loved in high school who got away, Yes got away.
(06:04):
The guy you loved in high school, Yes that got away.
But that's why I continue to say this whole thing
with Morontin Ferrus fascinating to me because while he didn't
have the relationship with management obviously, with this new owner
that Jason has had with Jerry, I mean, we keep
talking about the fact that Jerry truly wants Jason's succeed
because he's his creation. I feel like he's got years invested.
(06:26):
We talked about girls that stick around with guys for
a long time. Well not just an investment, there's a
there's a definite familial bond there for you've invested time
and energy, and sometimes you don't want to go out
there and test the waters because you've got to start
all over. And when we start talking about other teams
in this league, I don't know if Freddie Kitchens is
(06:47):
safe in Cleveland. Shermour doesn't look like he's safe with
the Giants Dan Quinn in Atlanta. So you've got the
Carolina Panthers that are now getting an early jump on
this thing. And when I look at last year, so
sort of like musical Chairs, the Cowboys when they were
furious after that Rams loss, and and I know on
(07:07):
good authority that the Cowboys were sort of I won't say,
doing an official coaching search, but we'll just say that
they were sort of looking under a few rocks too.
I'll put that delicately. They were looking under a few rocks,
without getting into too many details. They were sort of
(07:27):
not stuck necessarily, but they felt like Jason was the
best guy still standing. And I feel like, if if
you're going to truly move on from Jason Garrett, then
I think the argument could be made then you should
just go ahead, name a guy like Rod Marinelli your
interim head coach, and get an early jump because I
(07:49):
do believe that you're going to have other guys out
here that is available, right because there are some sexy
jobs that are open. I think the Giants job is
the most intriguing. And don't for a second think that
maybe Jason Garrett and his agent don't go test the waters.
And if you don't think that Jason Garrett is an
interesting candidate from other teams for other teams, you're kidding yourself. No,
(08:11):
we've We've said before. I think Jason would be a
really attractive option in Washington where there's so much instability,
and it's who can we find that will completely forgot
about Washington? That's another team. And you know Cleveland, if
Freddie Kitchens gets fired, that's a job where people go, wow,
there's a lot of young talent there. You know, maybe
it's kind of a mess, but he is, he's from
(08:32):
the Ohio, Ay, he spent a lot of family. You know,
it's there's there're gonna be options out there. And my
point is as if the Cowboys aren't careful, they're going
to be less standing with a guy that is not
the sexiest candidate, and the guy that made sense, that
was reliable, that was dependable, a guy who at least
got you into the playoffs, uh, consistently. May not have
(08:55):
one of them, you may not have gone deep, you
still get butts in the seat, you still got a
locker room that buys in. You're gonna lose that candidate.
Isn't that so unlike Jerry? Though? I mean maybe not
because we've seen it for nine years, But that's what
historically hasn't that been not necessarily in this little snapshot
we have, but historically, hasn't that been so unlike Jerry
to just well, you know, I'm just gonna this. I
(09:16):
know what I have here, A safe play here. I mean,
that's just so unlike him when you hear him talking
about business deal lanes and and the way he approach.
That's what I think is the craziest thing about it.
And so it's I think they're I think they're reaching point.
I know. I said this at the end of the
last podcast where we were both so exhausted and hoping
it was just a dream that Jerry had talked the
(09:37):
way he did after the game, but he had tears
in his eyes, Bobby, I was standing right in front
of him, and I literally if you could have seen
my expression this whole time, Oh I was, I was,
I was getting ready to the unterlocker, and I had
a clear shot of your befuddled face. I had the
hardest time buying this, but I I'm I'm back to
where I was before. I just I don't know if
(09:59):
I've will leave that his seat is that hot. I
still believe the things lukewarm. And if this team goes
and and gets a few wins and they get into
the playoffs, which is looking like they are since the
Eagles have decided to go and lose with the Dolphins,
I could see Jerry legitimately hanging on to Jason. And
here's what it's gonna get crazy. Jason's price tag is
(10:20):
gonna go up because some of these other teams are
gonna want him, and Jerry is gonna be afraid of
losing his girl. No, I don't like this picture your pain,
and I'll be honest. But here here's here's the thing
that you know, we talked about this a little bit
on the podcast, and I know we talked about it
standing outside the lock before Jerry came down. We all
anticipated angry Jerry after the game right against the Bills.
We all anticipate he's gonna come out. Never pretend to
(10:41):
know what Jerry's thinking, of course never, but that was
the expectation he was going to come out. He was
going to continue the same one because how can you
defend it? So that's my point, how can you defend
keeping Jason another season? Jerry's going to find a way
to do it. The only person apparently, as I was
walking out, I was walking out of the stadium a
you know, one in the morning or whatever time it was.
(11:02):
It wasn't that late, but it was late. And as
I'm walking out, I I saw a blue truck flash
headlights at me and stick their head out and say
be better at your job. And I looked at it
was our friend Brian brought us by the way. We'll
have on our next podcast. He's going to join us
and formerly of Dallas Cowboys dot Com there and we
just talked for a second. I said, you know, I'm
I'm really surprised. I thought we were gonna get angry
(11:24):
Jerry out here. And he smiled. He said no, he said,
we were walking down I was with RT tempting Arian.
Brian do the post game show for the Dallas Cowboys
Radio network and he said, Ari, he was saying, you know,
he's going to be furious tonight and Brian says, nope.
He said, what do you mean No. Brian said, We're
going to get gentler Jerry Jones tonight. I promise. He said,
We've already seen angry Jerry Jones. Jerry's gonna come out
(11:46):
there exasperated and exhausted because it didn't work. And I
think you're gonna see a reflective and he hit it.
He hit it on the hit that that was exactly
what we got. And because of that, because Brian's perspective
was right, that he came out like that, I gotta
feel like he's just in the acceptance phase of this
is I'm losing a thing. Because let me go back
to the relationship analogy. A girl can say to a
(12:10):
guy and threatened time and time again, I want the ring.
I want the ring. I want the ring. She she
dresses sexier, she looks hotter, or she gets angry and
she ices him out. She's called. She's not getting the
response that she's looking for. You know what, typically I've
seen what turns a man is when she is gone
and he sees her on the arm of another man,
(12:31):
and then all of a sudden, his instincts kick in
and he's like, no, wait a minute, somebody else wants
what I've got, what I've had? How do we play
out that analogy? Jason Garrett's agent starts floating that he's
a legitimate candidate for the Carolina job, for the New
York job, and for the Cleveland job. Because you heard Jason.
(12:52):
Jerry even say why I could see him coaching in
the NFL. He didn't say coaching with another team or
coach at the Dallas cow Boys. That's Jerry keeping the
door up. He's playing nice right now. Here's also what
he said. He said, in my opinion, Jason will be
coaching next year, which also does not lend to certainty
that he's going to be here. But he also says
that he's capable of winning a Super Bowl. He's got
(13:13):
all the skills required to win a Super Bowl? Aren't
you looking for that in your head coaching candidate? Yeah,
but I mean as our friend Mike Fisher from one
O five through the fan has labeled Jerry Jerry is
Jerry Poppins. You're going to get two spoonfuls of sugar
with that lie. He's going to sell you sometimes. But
I continue to go back to this, show me a
better candidate right now, that's out there's a proven winner.
(13:37):
Unless Sean Payton was out there on the open market.
Let's talk about Ron Rivera. Is that a better candidate
than Jason Garrett. That is a guy who has been
to a Super Bowl. That is a guy who is
he has been to a super Bowl. But I believe
it is a very similar type of coach in terms
of who he is as a person. My girlfriend Tiffany
Blatman covers the Carolina Panthers couldn't have better things to
(13:58):
say about RODERFERI great guy I know as players who
love him. But as he won a Super Bowl as
a player, he did at least Okay, has he wont
a Super Bowl? That not the ultimate goal, sure, but
I mean already went down as a resume. We're looking
at it. We're looking at a legacy now that's devoid
of even NFC Championship game appearance as though, I mean,
and you're bringing in a whole new coaching staff and
(14:19):
you're and you're hoping that that you're not only going
to just go to the postseason. Cherry wants a win, now,
Montell Now, I will argue that I think the NFC
South is a lot harder than the NFC East when
you look at some of the teams. When you've got
the Saints, the Falcons are our favorite. Note today we
were talking about is the Redskins are currently third in
(14:41):
the draft, which means they have the third worst record
in the NFL and they still have not been eliminated
from the NFC East time. And the NFC East has
been the NFC least. If the Redskins went out and
the Cowboys and Eagles lose out, the Redskins win the division.
Not likely, but you know, it's at least fun to
kick around. But okay, so we'll kick around Ron Rivera.
That's an Christine candidate. Do I think he's the fixed?
(15:02):
Do I think he could super Bowl in the next
two years? That just lets to be clear. Jerry's expectation
is a super Bowl in the next two years. And
I think you're bringing in is to push a group over.
And I think what what keeps Jerry Jones up at night?
Is he feels like Jason gets him close every single year.
And we've seen these new coaching camps we've already talked about.
(15:23):
We we've talked about Mattegge in Chicago, Adam Gaze with
the Jets, Cliff Kingsbury with the Arizona Cardinals, Brian Flores
with the Miami Dolphins. Just because there's been coaching changes
doesn't mean that we've seen a sweeping difference in some
of these teams. You saw it was Sean McVeigh in
his first year, and you've seen it though this year.
As you know, we talked about this with Dave Hellman
(15:44):
a few weeks BacT. Dave pointed this out potentially the
best example of like what would a change look like
in Dallas? Maybe what has happened in Green Bay. A
long tenured coach who over time it's just like he's
not getting done anymore. And then you bring in a
fresh voice, a young, hot shot coach first time and
they come in there and there you know they've found
success again. So that's not Ron Rivera, who's my young
(16:06):
but sexy and new coach that got out. If you're
looking for a palatable change for Jerry a coach like
Jason Garrett. Ron Rivera just on the defensive side. Bringing
in defensive Jason Garrett that's not attractive. Does he bring
North Turner with him? I don't. I mean, the Cowboys
may want to. I don't know that you'd want to
go to North Turner. I don't think Kellen Moore and
(16:28):
John Kitton have been the issue, all right. But here's
the other thing that we've that we've heard and what
I've been told around here. Whoever the next coaches they
want to keep certain personnel in place. Is a seasoned
coach who has a history in the league, who has
a few skins on the wall. Is he going to
want to come in and do it all Jerry's way?
(16:49):
Is he gonna want to retain some of Jerry's personnel
or Jason Garrett's of former coaches personnel? I would guess.
I would guess that if that's the case, that whoever's
being brought in is not necessarily going to have If
it's not Jason, that whoever's being brought in, it's going
to have to be a college coach. Al right, So
now it's not Ron Rivera's And now are we talking
(17:10):
Riley and as Lincoln Riley gonna get you this done
in two years? No, Well see, now here's the other issues.
What's Lincoln done. Here's here's the other interesting issue here.
He got me a national championship. Yet I would imagine
the coaches you would want to carry over, let's just
not knowing who they are. Let's think logically about what
coaches want. I would imagine it's largely on the offensive side.
(17:32):
Mark Colombo has done a good job. I think they've
been really happy with him since he took over for Paul.
Alexander Kitten has been great. I think they like Sanjay
Lawl a lot. I think what we're talking about is
probably they want to keep their offensive staff intact. And
if that's the case, you're probably not bringing in an
offensive coach and telling them to swallow the assistance. You're
probably saying, don't worry about this side of the ball.
(17:53):
We gotta handle that. To me, says they're bringing in
a defensive coach. If they're bringing in somebody to a
place Jason Garrett, and that wouldn't be Lincoln Riley. Who
there there's we We kicked this around a little, but
I'd love your take on this. We've got four head
coaching types generally for head coaching type hires. Occasionally you'll
be Rod Marinelli and you get hired as a defensive
(18:14):
line coach and all of a sudden be the head
coach of the lines. But typically you've got the college
coach is one. You've got the internal promotion, so you
just elevate one of your coaches on staffs, and you've
got I don't believe. So now you've got the um,
the retread head coach, somebody who's been a head coach elsewhere,
maybe had success and retired or didn't have success and
(18:34):
was fired, whatever, Just somebody who's been a head coach before.
And then the hot shot coordinator. Generally it's going to
be one of those four. I gotta feel like if
they're asking a coach to take staff already in place,
that sounds like a college coach to me, somebody who's
not necessarily going to have the relationships at the NFL
level to fill out a whole staff anyway. That would
(18:55):
be easier for them to accept those sort of stipulations.
And so you start aging at college coaches who are
a little more defensive minded. Is that is that not
been in college? Is that Stoops? Is that Bob Stoops?
So you tell the come in here and except this
is intriguing to me just because obviously he's got the moxie,
he's got the experience, he's got skins on the wall. Um.
(19:18):
I think he's a fiery personality who would be interesting
here in Dallas, obviously knows the area well. Uh, but
is most likely? Do you though, do you think do
you think they're gonna want to retread head coach somebody
who's done it before, they'd Goll'm not sold that they're
making a change body. That's the thing I think when
(19:39):
I lay it out, lay it out, because when I
lay it all out, I keep going. When he talks
about the pros and cons list that he has, he
to me is no different than a girl that is
trying to figure out is she going to move on
from the guy that won't give her a ring or
she going to stay with him? Because we just got
so much history. And I've been on match dot com
(20:02):
and it's scary out there, and I've been on a
couple of really crappy dates, and at the end of
the day, it's just such a nice guy. So at
the end of the day, don't you Maybe what I
want is unrealistic, but at the end of the day,
don't you dump the guy who gets you close but
can't finish. The whole thing is just so absurd. I'm
(20:24):
just the reason why it's so absurd is because I
think the fans were literally team Jerry for the first
time since he's been in Dallas. Because it is it
has been ugly for Jerry and Dallas over the years.
My sweet grandmother growing up. Everything that could go wrong,
bad weather, Jerry Jones is problem, like Jerry Jones is
(20:45):
probably they will not. There are people to this day
that will not forgive him for Tom Landry. But last
week who will never But last week I felt like
he literally had public sentiment behind him, and then at
the game you lost it all again. You think that
just felt too weird to him. He's like, jeez, I've
never had this kind of like connected. This is this
(21:06):
is awkward position for me. I'm gonna go back to this.
This is just too weird to have this sort of,
you know, unanimous support for me right now. It's whiplash.
You know, if if you if you're going to set
a mandate, you want to go ahead and just keep
that stove turned up, because then it's you. Then it's
almost like the message isn't well received. It's like, okay,
sure you're gonna leave me fine, Oh yeah, No, it's
(21:27):
it's grounding your kid. And then you let it go
and then they're not gonna, Okay, I'm grounded again. Whatever
you say. It was such an emotional like it was
such an emotion, I'm still not I'm still have PTSD
after it last week, can you recall? And I'm gonna
have to go look and see if there's ever been
a team in existence like this where you're head coach
and you're starting quarterback, don't have contracts setting into the
(21:49):
off season. It is pretty wild that the the inability
seemingly to make decisions on the biggest pieces that they
have here is wild, and and that kind of makes
me wonder if Jerry and Stephen recognize how short this
window is, and so they recognize the importance of each
of these decisions, and so they're just trying to put
(22:10):
them off as long as they can and gather as
much as they can. I'm I'm floored that you've got
your star receiver, your star corner. I mean if they
didn't have but let's say Byron Jones went down with
an injury right now, are they stopping anybody in the secondary?
No Anthony Brown, No Byron Jones, and you're heading into
an off season where he's likely gone. I think you
(22:31):
have nothing at corner, which means you're probably gonna be
rolling out a rookie starter next year at corner, or
some veteran that you're not gonna be able to spend
a ton on because you're going to pay your receiver
and pay your quarterback. You're gonna have to have a
bargain bin corner out there. The way they've put off
some of these decisions is kind of surprising, and yet
the only one they've taken care of realistically is the
one who didn't need to be taken care of for
(22:52):
two more years because you had that control of them.
It's it was as if they did a contract because
they got scared. Like with Zeke, they didn't want to
envision a life without him because there was That's just
how high the optimism and expectations were for this year.
In other words, I think that's a great point. I
think they thought this was the wind this was the year,
and so they needed him here. And I think if
(23:14):
you asked them today, would they have done it at
that time? And a chance, specifically Stephen Jones would have
told you not a chance. In my opinion, I don't
know that for a fact, but I feel like this
team was doing a pretty good job of saying we're
holding out, and unfortunately, you look at DeMarcus Lawrence's contract,
you look at Ezeki Elliott's contract, and it doesn't bode
well for paying Dak what he wants now. And that's
(23:37):
what's unfortunate, because you just have to get really creative
in the way you well because you and I think
what's what's a little unfair about this is we were
talking about this earlier today before we recorded this podcast.
Doak is one of the cheapest most valuable players you've
got on this team, one of the cheapest most viable
players in the league. Yeah, I mean he that's people
(23:58):
talk all the time that if you look at um,
generally the teams that win Super Bowls are teams with
elite quarterbacks, or you're a very good quarterback who's cheap,
and like Russell Wilson before he got Russell Wilson during
the contract, you know, when he was cheap and they
were able to stack talent and pay people, and they
want a Super Bowl before they had to pay him.
You've blown that. Time's up on Doc. You and and
(24:21):
I think that And as I reported this week, it
looks like this thing is headed towards a franchise tag,
which is fascinating to me. And I don't think it
has anything to do with they don't believe that Doc
is the guy of the future. I don't believe they
think that Dad isn't their franchise guy. I don't know
what more you could want from a fourth round pick
(24:42):
in Dak Prescott. Would you look at this career season
that he's had, And then when I think about the
the things that he's done off the field and in
that locker room, that's a guy to me that you
throw money at. But it's gotten contentious with he. I'm
being told between his agent and the Cowboys based on
the years that he wants and the number that he wants,
(25:02):
and the Cowboys are exercise exercising their ability right now
to use that franchise tag. And then again they have
the transition tag if they need to use it on
Amory Cooper. I've actually this actually recalls a really good
clip that I think we can actually play real quick
that I think is relevant when you talk about the
contentiousness that exists between the Cowboys and Todd France, who
we go in cancer here we are not we are
(25:24):
going to actually France. France actually told this story a
few years back about how he got Fletcher Coxes deal.
Listen to this. Fletcher cox was a really long process.
It was only basically two years we turned down deals.
I remember they had twenty million dollars on the table
guaranteed for him, and UH coaches were trying to convince
(25:45):
him to take it. Security guy was trying to convince
him to take a teammates whore. I mean, they pulled
out every stop. I had a flight of training camp
to sit down with him to say, think about this.
Who's the only person that makes money on this deal
besides you? And he was like you, I said, and
why am I telling you don't take this deal? But
(26:06):
the team that's writing you a check is telling you
take this deal? And so the light bulb for him
went off. Now he twenty millions a lot of money.
I get it. It's a lot of risk to go
through the season. But he was a first round pick. Ah,
he did have plenty of money saved, so he could
take that risk. And when you weighed the risk versus
reward for what he could potentially get, that was what
(26:27):
we thought he should be getting. It was worth the risk.
Fast forward a year later and he was a sixty
three million dollar guarantee instead of twenty three million dollar
gamble that paid off. So it was a long process.
It was a lot of back and forth. It was contract,
we're done, and we're not talking about anymore. It's back on,
we're not talking about it on and off long, just
a lot of analysis and conversations, back and forth, then
(26:49):
ultimately worked out. I love that your Rainman brain recalls
this situation and how it is interesting that that does
apply to the situation because if I'm Dak, I'm nervous
because right now, especially when you're looking at a potential
coaching change, uh, the possibility of getting tagged and what
that means about my security and you know, I know
(27:09):
we've talked about his insurance policy and his endorsement deals.
I'd be a little nervous, Like when I go into
contract talks with NFL network. I'm sort of always of
the opinion, I don't have network should hear this, But
I'm like, I like the job security, sure, whatever the
deal is, and I you know, I think that with Dak,
I think that the the idea, like of what you're
(27:31):
hearing about, how that he's head into attack. What that's
tells me is there's just not they don't expect anything
to get done in the final month, because if it
doesn't get done in the final month, then he's open
and they're gonna want attack him just so they can
make sure they have control for negotiations. But I would wonder,
and I don't know exactly if you were told this
aspect of it or not, I would wonder if that's
(27:51):
maybe Dak also just being like, you know, this isn't
going anywhere. Let's we got a six and six. We
don't we got four games that we have to focus on,
so we're not going to negotiate in this when it's
not unlike we're focused. That sounds like something he would
That honestly sounds like a perspective where he's like if
somebody comes to him with a contract, often he goes
you know, I don't even want to see any offers
right now. You know, let's just focus on we gotta
(28:12):
knock this and that that does sound like him. I mean,
he's this is the guy who told Pam Oliver earlier
in the season, or the way Pam Oliver relayed in
week two talking about that. You know, he doesn't necessarily
think he deserves X amount of dollars because that's reserved
for guys, for super He's got a very part of
why he works so well here and why I think
Jason Garrett loves him, why I think they fell in
love with him in the pre draft process. He is
(28:32):
that right kind of guy. He's that cliche he's he's
got the mindset they want. He's got such a healthy perspective.
There really isn't there's a confidence about Dak. There's never
been an ego. And that's what I appreciate about it,
because there are a lot of people up there that
would look at the situation and say, look at everything
I've done for you. Your quarterback went down, your backup
quarterback went down, and I took you to a thirteen
(28:52):
and one season my rookie year. I was picked in
the fourth round, thirteen and three, and then when I
when I look at what he's done even with the
Ezeki Elliott suspension, and when I look at the way
that he continues to galvanize his team at six and
six and even last year before they picked up a
Mari Cooper, he didn't have a wide receiver, he didn't
have a solid tight end. He was still getting stuff done.
(29:14):
And so some people will look at this is a
little disrespectful, like, hey, I didn't hold out at camp.
I showed up every day. I haven't said one negative
thing in the press. Stuff hasn't leaked from my camp.
You know, I'm trying to keep the focus on winning games.
That to me, like most people would get you know
that your minds on your money. His his mind has
not been on the money this year. And I think
(29:35):
that that's something that this team has to respect. I
think it's something his teammates respect, or or you know,
you can even look at it and and talk about
that's just an example of his confidence that he potentially
is internally looking at that as all right, I'll go
out there and I'll play and I'll play better in
this price tag is going to go up, and that
he has that confidence to know, I'm confident that I
can play on my rookie deal right here because I
know that I'm going to make exponentially more money having
(29:57):
not done this deal in training camp. And he's a
guy who's stepped out there and has proven it and show.
I mean, the example that I go to from the
last game, and we were talking about it at the time, was,
you know, typically on third and ten, you've got a
guy who's gonna scramble and he's gonna slide or something.
Dac was short of the first town marker. It was
crunch time for them. They didn't end out scoring, kind
(30:18):
of made it irrelevant. But on third and ten, he's
about three yards short and he lowered his head and
you know, bowled over the defensive back to get that
first time. And that's why everyone was celebrating Josh Allen
doing the very same thing in this game against the
Cowboys on Thanksgiving. I'm like, we've been seeing that from
Dak since he got here. That felt like in that moment,
that felt like Dak trying to go like y'all need
(30:39):
to like you need emotion here, something like it was
he wanted to lower the boom and I remember the
very next play was a pastor Randall Cobb and he
caught it, and you know, they come on, let's go,
and then we have you know, Michael Bennett afterwards screaming,
transitioning a little. I guess looking at that, looking at
the emotion, Doc was showing the what Randall cops, you
got these veterans who are doing this. Do you think
(31:00):
they sense there's a lack of intensity there right now
that they're they're needing some those veterans feel we got
a lot of spark under some of these guys that
there isn't that under them right now. I don't know
where it's coming from. And we covered this on our
last pot. I still think it's fascinating. The guy that's
been here for a cup of coffee was so frustrated loudly.
You couldn't understand what he was saying. You just heard
(31:22):
F word every other one and just well, I'm glad
the team is getting bad. And look here's the deal.
This team believes that adversity, like Jerry Jones has told us,
is an opportunity to rewrite a hell of a comeback story.
I hope they listen to this podcast. I hope they
listened to the local radio shows. I hope they listen.
I hope, thank you, our numbers continue to grow. So
(31:44):
it's definitely the guys, a lot of I've got it.
I've got to hope that they take these newspapers and
and everyone mocking this idea that they can somehow turn
the season around and go to the super Bowl, and
they use this as fuel. I hope that we're talking
about something Frint as we get into January. It's just
I just keep going back to the oh and five
against winning teams, their backs for against the Wall, against
(32:06):
the Bills, there was a game they should have stepped
up and been ready out of all of them. It
felt like it should have been Buffalo and they weren't. Yes,
and that's where that was the I think that's why
we all anticipated something from Jerry, because it was like, Okay,
this should have been you know we've seen previously. You know,
heading into the Philly game, there were all these questions
about your coach, and you guys answered him. Heading into
(32:27):
Detroit there was the Tavon Austin thing, and you guys
came out and you know, you busted your tails in
that game and you win the end, it's like, okay,
then only loss. I keep going back to me. The
ugliest loss of the of the season was you kept
it within four points of the Patriots, and then the
Patriots got beat the following week by the Houston Texans.
So if you consider yourself to be a super Bowl
caliber team, you need to be as good as the
(32:49):
Baltimore Ravens, as good as you use in Texans. The
Patriots are. You can penetrate that team. This year they're penetrable.
You you is that a word penetrable? Yeah, because there's impenetrable.
I think impenetrable. Sure, we're going to say it is
they proved that you can beat them, and they kept
this within four points and they didn't get it done. Yeah,
And I think that's the frustrating thing is that, And
(33:10):
then you're killing him because the Cowboys didn't work outside
for that one, and then this week ahead of the
Bears are outside working out. It's just now Buffalo. They
got killed Buffalo. That was beginning to end manhamdle them.
So but it is interesting that we look at those
winning teams they've lost too. They were within That's the
frustrating things that they could have won any of those
(33:30):
other four and they didn't. And that's where it's it's
reflective on the coach. And I do want to bring
up because I know we already mentioned Ron Rivera. You
guys have heard me on this podcast and on Twitter previously.
Like I, I think Chris Peterson makes a ton of sense. Okay,
So that's interesting that you say that because we saw
that he was stepping down he was at Washington, and
(33:54):
that's a concern because it's a step down that makes me, okay,
is he freeing up time or is he he's literally
just he wants to step away. Because if he's want
to step away, then he obviously is canceled. So I
reached out to people that were close to him as
a coach and around the program, and I was told
it is in fact a recharge and reset. I didn't
hear that. I don't know if that is. I know
you've got your heart hung on him, but I do
(34:16):
that to me is just that's it's an interesting world
card theory. If it's not him, then I've got my
new name. Isn't because because I trust Jane's reporting, I'm
a believer in Jane's Later reports. So I'm gonna say
that Chris Peterson's out, and that's gonna make me sad.
So if if Chris Peterson's out, then my new number
one target is Jim Harbaugh. After everything. But see, then
(34:37):
you've got people I said something about her. You please
explain that one to me. I mean, hardball is I
think when you look at what he did at Stanford,
what he did in San Francisco, what he did at
San Diego, I think of San Diego State where he
was before that um. But generally where you look is
he's got the reputation as the guy who comes in
charges a team up for three years and their aunt
(34:57):
and then it's just okay, dude, your bits wearing on
ut now really starting to grade on us. That's I
think that's what the Cowboys need. I think they need
the guy who can get this group charged up for
two to three years. Michigan's not been a great experience.
We can just ignore that one as an outlier and
then we can look at the others. But I mean,
that's a guy who three got you to three straight
(35:18):
NFC Championship games with That's that's a guy who I'd
love the milk chugging cacumant wearing guy up on the
podium every day. That would certainly be fun. But you know,
you know that you know the guy to ask if
the job comes up and we don't ask him. Now,
that's obviously you got to ask me. Jordan list say, hey,
what do you think of Jim? One of Jim Harball's
assistance is on staff here, Greg Jackson, the safety's coach.
(35:40):
I just I'm telling you right now it's feeling and
fans aren't gonna want to hear this. As much as
I've told you that this is as hot as Jerry's been,
that it is inconceivable that he would continue to keep
Jason around this team. He buckle up, folks, I Am
not going to be surprises. You never gave me your
(36:02):
answer that let's say Jason has fired, Let's not even
consider that a possibility. What what is the most likely
do you think college coach promote from within? Retread NFL
coach or hotshot coordinator? Who's the most likely personality type
they bring in retreat NFL coach? So you think they'd
go so like, I mean, let's just think of guys.
Who are you think if Dan I think Ron Rivera
(36:24):
would be interesting. Vera, Okay Rivera or I mean some
of the others, John Fox, Jack del Rio. No, if
Dan Quinn gets fired, no, no, not a fit. But
you think Rivera would make some sense. I think he'd
be interesting. I think he's a player's coach. I think
it'd be interesting. Lots of names to kick around. We'll
(36:45):
have a lot of time to continue to kick those around,
and uh, you know, hopefully there's there's Honestly hopefully there's
a win this week, because I don't think that I
can stand hearing exactly how Jerry's going to spend it
if they don't win. I don't know what creative way
I'm gonna be able to tolerat if things he's going
to spend that. See, this is a team that improved
(37:05):
that it can go on a run, and it started
with Chicago. So that's what we're gonna be talking about.
It's beginning to fill like groundhog Day around here though.
Joining us now to preview this game against the Chicago
Bears is Patrick Finley. He covers the Bears for the
Chicago Sun Times. He's also the host of the Hollis
Intrigue podcast, and you can find him on Twitter at
(37:26):
Patrick Finley. Patrick, thanks so much for joining us. So
first question here, you know, we we see a lot
of you know, grumbling about Jason Garrett here in Dallas.
I know Matt Naggy was you know, seeming deity there
last year. It seems like he's coming under a little
bit of fire now. Has the honeymoon wore off for
Matt Maggie there? Yeah, yeah, I think that's safe to say.
(37:47):
I don't think he's disliked by any stretch, and certainly
the Bears don't have an owner claiming that he will
be a coach somewhere in the NFL next year. But uh, yeah,
a little bit. You know, last year they went twelve
and four, Naggy kind of brought fun back. You know,
they started something called Club Dub in the locker room
after the game, where you know, they bring out a
disco ball in uh the speaker system and dance and
(38:10):
and you know he's throwing touchdown passes to tackles and
stuff like that. There really hasn't been that level of
joy this season, but I would say that, especially compared
to some of the other Chicago coaches, I think his
popularity is still pretty high. What has happened? Why has
the honeymoon and the luster and the shine worn off?
For those of us that have not kept a keen
(38:31):
eye on the Chicago and and what they've been dealing
with this season ahead of this game with the Cowboys,
the quarterback hasn't been very good. That's always a good
place to start. Mr. Rbisky. They expect him to take
a leap in his second year with Naggie, and he
really hasn't. He's been more, uh more of a step back, honestly,
although he has looked better in the last two or
(38:52):
three weeks. They've been inconsistent in the run game. David
Montgomery was their highest draft pick last year because they
traded away at first and a set it in previous deals,
including for Cleio mack and and he hasn't really gotten
going the way that they had hoped he would. The
offense just really hasn't found its identity. It's amazing it's December.
Matt Maggie is an offensive mind. You know, they have
(39:15):
all of these weapons, and we really don't know what
they do best on offense yet. And uh, if it's
December and we're wondering, I'm thinking we will probably make
it to January and still wonder the same thing. You know,
the defense is still, you know, one of the top
units in the league. Is that really the only reason
that the Bears are kind of still in any sort
of contention even it's just the defense has scared him.
(39:36):
And if they were getting anything close to above average
production from the offense this year, this would be a
top contending team in the NFC. Yeah. Yeah, I think
that's a good way to put it. You know, Mr
Bisky said after they beat the Giants two weeks ago
that nineteen points wasn't good enough. They just won the
game nineteen to fourteen. But you know, had they at
that time, had they scored nineteen points in every game
(39:57):
they played, I think they would have been eight in
the three nineteen boys. Actually wouldn't be good enough. And
it shows you how that this offense has been that
that that they are where they are. Like you said,
the defense has been really good. Khalil mac is getting
triple team double teamed on every play, so his numbers
aren't quite what he's used to having, but believe me,
(40:18):
he has an impact on every single down. Uh. They
lost in Team Hicks to an injury and Danny Trevathan
to an injury, actually the same one. They both dislocated
their elbows. Hicks could come back next week, but you
will not see him in that Cowboys game because that
the defense has taken a little bit of a step back.
But you know, they're very, very good. They might not
be dangerous the way they were last year when they
(40:40):
let the league in takeaways, but they're still, you know,
top five, top six in the league. When you look
at this Bears team, the Cowboys are oh and five
against winning teams. Is this is this going to be
a situation where it could derail the Cowboys who are
looking to reset here in the month of December, or
do you think that the Chicago Bears will rise occasion
on Thursday Night football. I think we're looking at the
(41:03):
two of the two teams that are really similar to
each other. You know, since the end of September. I
think both teams are three and five. I think the
three wins that each team has are all against garbage teams.
I know that the Bears three wins during that time
they've been against the Lions twice and the Giants once.
So for us, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no,
(41:27):
they you know, they're you know, both of their pass
rushes are great. Um. You know you could argue that
Alan Robinson and Mary Cooper or two of the best
doing it or you know, in that category, in that
top tier right now. But yeah, you know if the Bears,
if the Bears would have won every game they were
favored to win this season, they'd be I think nine
and three. So, uh, the expectation has been there, and
(41:50):
the Bears have let their fans down and themselves down
more often than not. Um, could they do derail the Cowboys? Absolutely?
You know they're at home in you know on a Thursday,
the weather is going to be cold, but I mean
it sets up okay for them. But you know, with
the Bears, we've been saying this. You know, I'll believe
it when I see it. You know, we can make
(42:11):
a games for the Bears with you know, winning a
lot of games this year, and they just haven't been
able to do it. Um. So you know, they've lost
the worst teams than the Cowboys. I'm not sure they've
beaten a team quite as good as the Cowboys since
the Vikings in Week four. This literally is going to
be that Spiderman meme, you know, the two teams looking
at each other, because you could make the same argument
(42:31):
now on the weather. Of course, the Cowboys did practice
three days out here and it's a it's a balmy
sixty degrees out so they are ready for the low
forties that they can expect there in Chicago on Thursday night. Patrick, Yeah,
you're just making me mad. You're making me mad, as
I gonna say, the sun is shining right now that
it's uh somewhere in the high thirties, low forties, and uh,
(42:52):
I'd cut off a couple of different body parts to
get to sixty. Well, I gotta wonder. So the last
couple of weeks ago was a vet issues, uh blocking
up ran Dack's been under some pressure with the Bills.
That was kind of just the straight four with the Patriots.
It was there, you know, exotic blitzes and and things
like that. How would you expect the Bears to play this?
The Bears a heavy blitzing team. Are they going to
(43:14):
just be a team that tries to generate it with
the defensive line? What do they generally have how do
they generally approach pressure? They traditionally don't blitz a lot.
You know that they figured it with Khalil Mac. They
might not talk to but Chuck, But Chuck Pogano has
been more aggressive than Vic Fanchio ever was in You
guys know this. I mean, what makes Vic fanco really
good was masking coverage and rushing for Pogano likes to
(43:37):
bring an inside linebacker or too. In fact, if you
look at the last drive of the Thanksgiving game against
the Cowboys or against the Lions, when the Lions were
actually threatening, they were like at the seven going in
um on third down they did a double mug blitz
and brought to way inside linebackers. And then on fourth
down they did the same thing. So that's not to
(43:57):
say that they will do it regularly against the Cowboys.
It is in their arsenal. In general, I wouldn't expect
too many exotics. You know, maybe a nickelback blitzing you know,
once or twice. But uh, you know, anytime you've got
Khalil Mack, I don't think you need to put up
too much window addressing. So is this just like any
other game for any other team, and that it's gonna
come down to the quarterback? I mean, is this going
(44:17):
to be as simple as if Mitch Drubisky shows up,
the Bears got a good shot. If he doesn't, then
it's gonna be Dallas. Yeah. I mean he's coming off
his best game, um, which you know against the Lions.
Might not be saying a whole heck of a lot,
but you know, this is a guy who a month
ago was just absolutely lost in the woods. And uh,
you know, the Bears still have legitimate questions about whether
he's going to be their quarterback going forward beyond this season. Um.
(44:41):
You know, he's looking to build on this. He's a
guy who confidence matters with him. And you know I
wrote this earlier this week. This is really the first
time all year that he's been able to draw confidence
the old fashioned way from actually having a really good game. Um.
And and we'll see how that helps him. You know,
can the Bears without or in without Mitch playing well,
(45:02):
maybe if they get a takeaway for a touchdown something
like that, but it would take a pretty extraordinary circumstance.
You find yourself in the unique position of being in Chicago,
where you've covered a few coaching changes yourself up there,
namely the recent one when John Fox going with the younger,
sexier candidate and Matt Maaggie. How hard is that to
make that that transition? And for the Cowboys fans out
(45:23):
there that are calling for Jason Garrett's head, perhaps you
can put in perspective change doesn't always equate into success.
Perhaps it doesn't. And you know, as as a reporter,
and I'm sure you guys feel the same way. You know,
the day that somebody gets fired and their entire staff's
got to leave and all of their kids have to,
you know, withdraw from school and go somewhere else, and
(45:45):
and they've got to pack up their house and and
move is not a joyous day. And I've always had
a problem with fans who celebrate it as though they've
won something, because they most certainly have and it's a
sad day all around. You know, you said it, you know,
because you're making a change doesn't guarantee improvement. You know,
I was here from Mark Tressman. You know, he got
fired after the second season that was completely out of control. Uh,
(46:07):
you know, Brandon Marshall was saying and doing stuff and
Martellis Bennett and it was a mess. And so they
brought in John Fox trying to fix that specific problem,
which was to kind of put together a more professional
locker room. And they did that and then Fox Foxes
teams didn't score very well. Um, so then they switched
the offensive guy. And you know, it's Murphy's law, It's
it's the guy you hire is going to be a
(46:30):
d degrees different than the guy you had. And I
think you know, we've seen the Bears do that twice,
where they went from an offensive guy to a defensive
guy back to an offensive guy. Uh. It's not it
doesn't guarantee success by any stretch. Um, but I do
think that there is a feeling in the building when
you know it's inevitable. Uh. That is a very strange
(46:50):
place to play or to be. And to me, what's
so interesting about the Cowboys is, you know, this coaching
change is a possibility, but shoot, they're winning their division
and we can make the playoffs too. I I don't
know how many teams on the planet how that sort
of duality going on at the exaction time. That's why
I keep telling people it is a possibility. I just
refused to count Jason Garrett out next year having covered
(47:13):
this team as long as I have, so you can't
do it. But Patrick Finley does great work for the
Chicago Sun Times covering the Bears. You can check them
out on Twitter at Patrick Fhiley. Thanks so much, Patrick.
We really appreciate your insight. Hey, thank you, guys. I
appreciate it. Alright. Well, we played that quote for you
earlier today where Dak Prescott said talk is cheap, and uh,
you know, you can see what a great lady leader
Dak Prescott is because all of his teammates really took
(47:35):
talk is cheap to heart. And you know, we like
to bring you locker room audio often. There just really
wasn't anybody talking today. And it wasn't, to be fair,
it was it's a Tuesday, but it's a Friday for them,
and that's always a little scant, but there was there
was really nobody wanting to chat with us today. Well,
you've got to let the play on the field do
the talking. And you know the reason why I continue
(47:55):
to say that there is a fighting chance for this team,
it's the guy that we're talking about a potential franchise
tag Dak Prescott, the guy who's done everything that you've
possibly wanted him to do. I believe this team goes
as he goes, and he seems as confident as I've
seen him with his back against the wall. So we'll
see what these cowboys do you on Thursday. And I said,
(48:17):
what a weird couple of weeks it's been around the
Star in frescale. It has indeed, and we will actually
talk to you one more time again before Thursday. We'll
actually have a good preview episode for you that will
release on Thursday as well, so you get us on
back to back days this week. It's gonna be exciting.
And we've got Thursday date night at Olive Garden. He
(48:37):
always gets me breadsticks.
Hello, boys and girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell, a Cowboys community with the
inside scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to
you from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby.
(00:29):
I think all of us, including the fans, want to
win a damn football game. I don't have to tell
you things a bad everybody knows things about. It's like
holding two handfuls of jello. I am with some brag
as hell, and I'm not gonna take this anymore. I
want Jason to get it done. It is amazing how
much things could change in a week. Every decision that
I make over the next month will be with an
(00:52):
eye mind to get us in the super Bowl. Now
talks cheap right, say hell with the talking again. I
would normally say you're really smoking something. I normally would
say that, but I'm the older room. This is it, man,
this is what your grandchildren are going to be. Smooka.
But it's got the exclusive skills to get the job done.
So they collectively you can win a SAP for book.
But they're qualified people. I love him. I love him
(01:17):
for the for the man he wants to be, and
I love him for the man that he almost is,
in my opinion, to be coaching in the NFL nexture. Well,
I don't know about you, Bobby, but when I listened
to Jerry Jones over the last week talk about Jason Garrett,
it reminds me a little bit of being a thirty
(01:40):
five year old woman. Now. So when I set out
and if, if, if you can identify with this, you're not.
But stay with me here. When you get to a
certain age, I'm thirty nine, Bobby. Yeah, I know we've
been talking about age a lot today. Yes, I know
you're having mortality issues when you get to a certain age, Jerry,
of course, at seventy seven. So here's where my analogy
comes into play. As a woman, you start to realize, well,
(02:05):
maybe I'm not gonna date the sexiest guy in the room.
Maybe he's not going to be the most spontaneous guy
in the room. But this guy, Jason Garrett, checks a
lot of boxes off for me. He's dependable, he's got
a great college education, he's got a good job, he's
never gonna cheat on me. He brings me flowers every
(02:28):
single year for my birthday. He remembers anniversaries, you remembers
of special moments. And we've got Thursday date night at
Olive Garden. He always gets me breadsticks. And I've enjoyed
a sexy, spontaneous, passionate relationship with a man like Jimmy.
Man Our fights are explosive. In fact, I probably took
(02:49):
some of that trauma from that relationship into my new relationships.
And while there was all these fireworks, man, I finally
got my power back. I know who I am. I
got my mojo back. Do I want to give that
to someone like a Sean Payton out there? When it
just took me so long to get over Jimmy? But
(03:10):
everyone since then has been so vanilla. But at least
I can say Jason is one of the good ones. Now.
I I go home to my parents every year and
I say I'm done with him. He's not going to
get me the ring that I want. We just continue
to date. I'm not getting the ring that I want,
but he's a good guy. I don't know if I
want to get on match dot com and and swipe
(03:31):
right just yet? Are we still talking about Garrett you're
you're seeming to get really personal here. Jay, I'm a
lot of friends that taught to you about their relationships. Bobby,
I'm coming I'm coming from from surveying all my friends,
of course, But that's what it feels like when I
listened to Jerry talk about Jason, it feels like a
man who's settling. But there's been explosive news here on
(03:53):
Tuesday that Carolina Panthers have come up, come out, and
they fired a guy like Ron Rivera, who, by the way,
he did not have his franchise quarterback. He's a coach,
he made the playoffs four of the past six seasons,
coach of the Year twice in that stretch, made it
to the super Bowl, and fired. Yeah, I feel like
there's a couple of ways we can look at that
(04:15):
firing as relates to the Cowboys. It's they're they're not
in a totally dissimilar position. Um. I mean, they obviously
haven't lost their quarterback. But remember that. See, that's the
funny thing to me. He loses his quarterback, he gets fired.
Jason Garrett loses his quarterback. That's the excuse that he
gets to keep his job after going four and twelve. UM.
(04:36):
I do think it's funny though, that you know Ron Rivera.
We've pointed to this before that if you look across
the league, there is one guy that's a lame duck
head coach right now. That's Jason Garrett. Everybody else had
at least an extra year their contract running through. UM. Typically,
when you get to the last year of a deal
like Jason was, teams will either fire or extend at
that point UM. And so Ron Rivera was going to
(04:59):
be one of three coaches in the league who expired
next year, so it was fire extend time. They chose fire.
Those are those are always good coaches to look at
the guys who are heading into a final year as
potential options if you do move on. And those three
Anthony Lynn with the Chargers, a guy who has been
in this building before, was the running backs coach for
the Cowboys years ago. Uh. Ron Rivera a guy who
(05:21):
was interviewed the last time you did a coaching search
and you hired Wade Phillips. The other one is Mike Zimmer.
He has one year left after the season where he'll
get fired or extended likely And all three of those.
It's just interesting the time and as those three or
started to come up, those are all three guys who
have ties to this building. And look at the way
that Mike Zimmer's playing his team is playing for him
up in Minnesota. I mean this is there are a
(05:43):
playoff contending team right now. Uh you know, maybe Anthony Lynn,
I don't I don't know, every right, I don't know
if I don't know if Jerry looks at him the
way that he would cut again, Sean Payton was the
guy that this organization coveted. That makes no secret about that.
That that was in analogy. That was the girl you
loved in high school who got away, Yes got away.
(06:04):
The guy you loved in high school, Yes that got away.
But that's why I continue to say this whole thing
with Morontin Ferrus fascinating to me because while he didn't
have the relationship with management obviously, with this new owner
that Jason has had with Jerry, I mean, we keep
talking about the fact that Jerry truly wants Jason's succeed
because he's his creation. I feel like he's got years invested.
(06:26):
We talked about girls that stick around with guys for
a long time. Well not just an investment, there's a
there's a definite familial bond there for you've invested time
and energy, and sometimes you don't want to go out
there and test the waters because you've got to start
all over. And when we start talking about other teams
in this league, I don't know if Freddie Kitchens is
(06:47):
safe in Cleveland. Shermour doesn't look like he's safe with
the Giants Dan Quinn in Atlanta. So you've got the
Carolina Panthers that are now getting an early jump on
this thing. And when I look at last year, so
sort of like musical Chairs, the Cowboys when they were
furious after that Rams loss, and and I know on
(07:07):
good authority that the Cowboys were sort of I won't say,
doing an official coaching search, but we'll just say that
they were sort of looking under a few rocks too.
I'll put that delicately. They were looking under a few rocks,
without getting into too many details. They were sort of
(07:27):
not stuck necessarily, but they felt like Jason was the
best guy still standing. And I feel like, if if
you're going to truly move on from Jason Garrett, then
I think the argument could be made then you should
just go ahead, name a guy like Rod Marinelli your
interim head coach, and get an early jump because I
(07:49):
do believe that you're going to have other guys out
here that is available, right because there are some sexy
jobs that are open. I think the Giants job is
the most intriguing. And don't for a second think that
maybe Jason Garrett and his agent don't go test the waters.
And if you don't think that Jason Garrett is an
interesting candidate from other teams for other teams, you're kidding yourself. No,
(08:11):
we've We've said before. I think Jason would be a
really attractive option in Washington where there's so much instability,
and it's who can we find that will completely forgot
about Washington? That's another team. And you know Cleveland, if
Freddie Kitchens gets fired, that's a job where people go, wow,
there's a lot of young talent there. You know, maybe
it's kind of a mess, but he is, he's from
(08:32):
the Ohio, Ay, he spent a lot of family. You know,
it's there's there're gonna be options out there. And my
point is as if the Cowboys aren't careful, they're going
to be less standing with a guy that is not
the sexiest candidate, and the guy that made sense, that
was reliable, that was dependable, a guy who at least
got you into the playoffs, uh, consistently. May not have
(08:55):
one of them, you may not have gone deep, you
still get butts in the seat, you still got a
locker room that buys in. You're gonna lose that candidate.
Isn't that so unlike Jerry? Though? I mean maybe not
because we've seen it for nine years, But that's what
historically hasn't that been not necessarily in this little snapshot
we have, but historically, hasn't that been so unlike Jerry
to just well, you know, I'm just gonna this. I
(09:16):
know what I have here, A safe play here. I mean,
that's just so unlike him when you hear him talking
about business deal lanes and and the way he approach.
That's what I think is the craziest thing about it.
And so it's I think they're I think they're reaching point.
I know. I said this at the end of the
last podcast where we were both so exhausted and hoping
it was just a dream that Jerry had talked the
(09:37):
way he did after the game, but he had tears
in his eyes, Bobby, I was standing right in front
of him, and I literally if you could have seen
my expression this whole time, Oh I was, I was,
I was getting ready to the unterlocker, and I had
a clear shot of your befuddled face. I had the
hardest time buying this, but I I'm I'm back to
where I was before. I just I don't know if
(09:59):
I've will leave that his seat is that hot. I
still believe the things lukewarm. And if this team goes
and and gets a few wins and they get into
the playoffs, which is looking like they are since the
Eagles have decided to go and lose with the Dolphins,
I could see Jerry legitimately hanging on to Jason. And
here's what it's gonna get crazy. Jason's price tag is
(10:20):
gonna go up because some of these other teams are
gonna want him, and Jerry is gonna be afraid of
losing his girl. No, I don't like this picture your pain,
and I'll be honest. But here here's here's the thing
that you know, we talked about this a little bit
on the podcast, and I know we talked about it
standing outside the lock before Jerry came down. We all
anticipated angry Jerry after the game right against the Bills.
We all anticipate he's gonna come out. Never pretend to
(10:41):
know what Jerry's thinking, of course never, but that was
the expectation he was going to come out. He was
going to continue the same one because how can you
defend it? So that's my point, how can you defend
keeping Jason another season? Jerry's going to find a way
to do it. The only person apparently, as I was
walking out, I was walking out of the stadium a
you know, one in the morning or whatever time it was.
(11:02):
It wasn't that late, but it was late. And as
I'm walking out, I I saw a blue truck flash
headlights at me and stick their head out and say
be better at your job. And I looked at it
was our friend Brian brought us by the way. We'll
have on our next podcast. He's going to join us
and formerly of Dallas Cowboys dot Com there and we
just talked for a second. I said, you know, I'm
I'm really surprised. I thought we were gonna get angry
(11:24):
Jerry out here. And he smiled. He said no, he said,
we were walking down I was with RT tempting Arian.
Brian do the post game show for the Dallas Cowboys
Radio network and he said, Ari, he was saying, you know,
he's going to be furious tonight and Brian says, nope.
He said, what do you mean No. Brian said, We're
going to get gentler Jerry Jones tonight. I promise. He said,
We've already seen angry Jerry Jones. Jerry's gonna come out
(11:46):
there exasperated and exhausted because it didn't work. And I
think you're gonna see a reflective and he hit it.
He hit it on the hit that that was exactly
what we got. And because of that, because Brian's perspective
was right, that he came out like that, I gotta
feel like he's just in the acceptance phase of this
is I'm losing a thing. Because let me go back
to the relationship analogy. A girl can say to a
(12:10):
guy and threatened time and time again, I want the ring.
I want the ring. I want the ring. She she
dresses sexier, she looks hotter, or she gets angry and
she ices him out. She's called. She's not getting the
response that she's looking for. You know what, typically I've
seen what turns a man is when she is gone
and he sees her on the arm of another man,
(12:31):
and then all of a sudden, his instincts kick in
and he's like, no, wait a minute, somebody else wants
what I've got, what I've had? How do we play
out that analogy? Jason Garrett's agent starts floating that he's
a legitimate candidate for the Carolina job, for the New
York job, and for the Cleveland job. Because you heard Jason.
(12:52):
Jerry even say why I could see him coaching in
the NFL. He didn't say coaching with another team or
coach at the Dallas cow Boys. That's Jerry keeping the
door up. He's playing nice right now. Here's also what
he said. He said, in my opinion, Jason will be
coaching next year, which also does not lend to certainty
that he's going to be here. But he also says
that he's capable of winning a Super Bowl. He's got
(13:13):
all the skills required to win a Super Bowl? Aren't
you looking for that in your head coaching candidate? Yeah,
but I mean as our friend Mike Fisher from one
O five through the fan has labeled Jerry Jerry is
Jerry Poppins. You're going to get two spoonfuls of sugar
with that lie. He's going to sell you sometimes. But
I continue to go back to this, show me a
better candidate right now, that's out there's a proven winner.
(13:37):
Unless Sean Payton was out there on the open market.
Let's talk about Ron Rivera. Is that a better candidate
than Jason Garrett. That is a guy who has been
to a Super Bowl. That is a guy who is
he has been to a super Bowl. But I believe
it is a very similar type of coach in terms
of who he is as a person. My girlfriend Tiffany
Blatman covers the Carolina Panthers couldn't have better things to
(13:58):
say about RODERFERI great guy I know as players who
love him. But as he won a Super Bowl as
a player, he did at least Okay, has he wont
a Super Bowl? That not the ultimate goal, sure, but
I mean already went down as a resume. We're looking
at it. We're looking at a legacy now that's devoid
of even NFC Championship game appearance as though, I mean,
and you're bringing in a whole new coaching staff and
(14:19):
you're and you're hoping that that you're not only going
to just go to the postseason. Cherry wants a win, now,
Montell Now, I will argue that I think the NFC
South is a lot harder than the NFC East when
you look at some of the teams. When you've got
the Saints, the Falcons are our favorite. Note today we
were talking about is the Redskins are currently third in
(14:41):
the draft, which means they have the third worst record
in the NFL and they still have not been eliminated
from the NFC East time. And the NFC East has
been the NFC least. If the Redskins went out and
the Cowboys and Eagles lose out, the Redskins win the division.
Not likely, but you know, it's at least fun to
kick around. But okay, so we'll kick around Ron Rivera.
That's an Christine candidate. Do I think he's the fixed?
(15:02):
Do I think he could super Bowl in the next
two years? That just lets to be clear. Jerry's expectation
is a super Bowl in the next two years. And
I think you're bringing in is to push a group over.
And I think what what keeps Jerry Jones up at night?
Is he feels like Jason gets him close every single year.
And we've seen these new coaching camps we've already talked about.
(15:23):
We we've talked about Mattegge in Chicago, Adam Gaze with
the Jets, Cliff Kingsbury with the Arizona Cardinals, Brian Flores
with the Miami Dolphins. Just because there's been coaching changes
doesn't mean that we've seen a sweeping difference in some
of these teams. You saw it was Sean McVeigh in
his first year, and you've seen it though this year.
As you know, we talked about this with Dave Hellman
(15:44):
a few weeks BacT. Dave pointed this out potentially the
best example of like what would a change look like
in Dallas? Maybe what has happened in Green Bay. A
long tenured coach who over time it's just like he's
not getting done anymore. And then you bring in a
fresh voice, a young, hot shot coach first time and
they come in there and there you know they've found
success again. So that's not Ron Rivera, who's my young
(16:06):
but sexy and new coach that got out. If you're
looking for a palatable change for Jerry a coach like
Jason Garrett. Ron Rivera just on the defensive side. Bringing
in defensive Jason Garrett that's not attractive. Does he bring
North Turner with him? I don't. I mean, the Cowboys
may want to. I don't know that you'd want to
go to North Turner. I don't think Kellen Moore and
(16:28):
John Kitton have been the issue, all right. But here's
the other thing that we've that we've heard and what
I've been told around here. Whoever the next coaches they
want to keep certain personnel in place. Is a seasoned
coach who has a history in the league, who has
a few skins on the wall. Is he going to
want to come in and do it all Jerry's way?
(16:49):
Is he gonna want to retain some of Jerry's personnel
or Jason Garrett's of former coaches personnel? I would guess.
I would guess that if that's the case, that whoever's
being brought in is not necessarily going to have If
it's not Jason, that whoever's being brought in, it's going
to have to be a college coach. Al right, So
now it's not Ron Rivera's And now are we talking
(17:10):
Riley and as Lincoln Riley gonna get you this done
in two years? No, Well see, now here's the other issues.
What's Lincoln done. Here's here's the other interesting issue here.
He got me a national championship. Yet I would imagine
the coaches you would want to carry over, let's just
not knowing who they are. Let's think logically about what
coaches want. I would imagine it's largely on the offensive side.
(17:32):
Mark Colombo has done a good job. I think they've
been really happy with him since he took over for Paul.
Alexander Kitten has been great. I think they like Sanjay
Lawl a lot. I think what we're talking about is
probably they want to keep their offensive staff intact. And
if that's the case, you're probably not bringing in an
offensive coach and telling them to swallow the assistance. You're
probably saying, don't worry about this side of the ball.
(17:53):
We gotta handle that. To me, says they're bringing in
a defensive coach. If they're bringing in somebody to a
place Jason Garrett, and that wouldn't be Lincoln Riley. Who
there there's we We kicked this around a little, but
I'd love your take on this. We've got four head
coaching types generally for head coaching type hires. Occasionally you'll
be Rod Marinelli and you get hired as a defensive
(18:14):
line coach and all of a sudden be the head
coach of the lines. But typically you've got the college
coach is one. You've got the internal promotion, so you
just elevate one of your coaches on staffs, and you've
got I don't believe. So now you've got the um,
the retread head coach, somebody who's been a head coach elsewhere,
maybe had success and retired or didn't have success and
(18:34):
was fired, whatever, Just somebody who's been a head coach before.
And then the hot shot coordinator. Generally it's going to
be one of those four. I gotta feel like if
they're asking a coach to take staff already in place,
that sounds like a college coach to me, somebody who's
not necessarily going to have the relationships at the NFL
level to fill out a whole staff anyway. That would
(18:55):
be easier for them to accept those sort of stipulations.
And so you start aging at college coaches who are
a little more defensive minded. Is that is that not
been in college? Is that Stoops? Is that Bob Stoops?
So you tell the come in here and except this
is intriguing to me just because obviously he's got the moxie,
he's got the experience, he's got skins on the wall. Um.
(19:18):
I think he's a fiery personality who would be interesting
here in Dallas, obviously knows the area well. Uh, but
is most likely? Do you though, do you think do
you think they're gonna want to retread head coach somebody
who's done it before, they'd Goll'm not sold that they're
making a change body. That's the thing I think when
(19:39):
I lay it out, lay it out, because when I
lay it all out, I keep going. When he talks
about the pros and cons list that he has, he
to me is no different than a girl that is
trying to figure out is she going to move on
from the guy that won't give her a ring or
she going to stay with him? Because we just got
so much history. And I've been on match dot com
(20:02):
and it's scary out there, and I've been on a
couple of really crappy dates, and at the end of
the day, it's just such a nice guy. So at
the end of the day, don't you Maybe what I
want is unrealistic, but at the end of the day,
don't you dump the guy who gets you close but
can't finish. The whole thing is just so absurd. I'm
(20:24):
just the reason why it's so absurd is because I
think the fans were literally team Jerry for the first
time since he's been in Dallas. Because it is it
has been ugly for Jerry and Dallas over the years.
My sweet grandmother growing up. Everything that could go wrong,
bad weather, Jerry Jones is problem, like Jerry Jones is
(20:45):
probably they will not. There are people to this day
that will not forgive him for Tom Landry. But last
week who will never But last week I felt like
he literally had public sentiment behind him, and then at
the game you lost it all again. You think that
just felt too weird to him. He's like, jeez, I've
never had this kind of like connected. This is this
(21:06):
is awkward position for me. I'm gonna go back to this.
This is just too weird to have this sort of,
you know, unanimous support for me right now. It's whiplash.
You know, if if you if you're going to set
a mandate, you want to go ahead and just keep
that stove turned up, because then it's you. Then it's
almost like the message isn't well received. It's like, okay,
sure you're gonna leave me fine, Oh yeah, No, it's
(21:27):
it's grounding your kid. And then you let it go
and then they're not gonna, Okay, I'm grounded again. Whatever
you say. It was such an emotional like it was
such an emotion, I'm still not I'm still have PTSD
after it last week, can you recall? And I'm gonna
have to go look and see if there's ever been
a team in existence like this where you're head coach
and you're starting quarterback, don't have contracts setting into the
(21:49):
off season. It is pretty wild that the the inability
seemingly to make decisions on the biggest pieces that they
have here is wild, and and that kind of makes
me wonder if Jerry and Stephen recognize how short this
window is, and so they recognize the importance of each
of these decisions, and so they're just trying to put
(22:10):
them off as long as they can and gather as
much as they can. I'm I'm floored that you've got
your star receiver, your star corner. I mean if they
didn't have but let's say Byron Jones went down with
an injury right now, are they stopping anybody in the secondary?
No Anthony Brown, No Byron Jones, and you're heading into
an off season where he's likely gone. I think you
(22:31):
have nothing at corner, which means you're probably gonna be
rolling out a rookie starter next year at corner, or
some veteran that you're not gonna be able to spend
a ton on because you're going to pay your receiver
and pay your quarterback. You're gonna have to have a
bargain bin corner out there. The way they've put off
some of these decisions is kind of surprising, and yet
the only one they've taken care of realistically is the
one who didn't need to be taken care of for
(22:52):
two more years because you had that control of them.
It's it was as if they did a contract because
they got scared. Like with Zeke, they didn't want to
envision a life without him because there was That's just
how high the optimism and expectations were for this year.
In other words, I think that's a great point. I
think they thought this was the wind this was the year,
and so they needed him here. And I think if
(23:14):
you asked them today, would they have done it at
that time? And a chance, specifically Stephen Jones would have
told you not a chance. In my opinion, I don't
know that for a fact, but I feel like this
team was doing a pretty good job of saying we're
holding out, and unfortunately, you look at DeMarcus Lawrence's contract,
you look at Ezeki Elliott's contract, and it doesn't bode
well for paying Dak what he wants now. And that's
(23:37):
what's unfortunate, because you just have to get really creative
in the way you well because you and I think
what's what's a little unfair about this is we were
talking about this earlier today before we recorded this podcast.
Doak is one of the cheapest most valuable players you've
got on this team, one of the cheapest most viable
players in the league. Yeah, I mean he that's people
(23:58):
talk all the time that if you look at um,
generally the teams that win Super Bowls are teams with
elite quarterbacks, or you're a very good quarterback who's cheap,
and like Russell Wilson before he got Russell Wilson during
the contract, you know, when he was cheap and they
were able to stack talent and pay people, and they
want a Super Bowl before they had to pay him.
You've blown that. Time's up on Doc. You and and
(24:21):
I think that And as I reported this week, it
looks like this thing is headed towards a franchise tag,
which is fascinating to me. And I don't think it
has anything to do with they don't believe that Doc
is the guy of the future. I don't believe they
think that Dad isn't their franchise guy. I don't know
what more you could want from a fourth round pick
(24:42):
in Dak Prescott. Would you look at this career season
that he's had, And then when I think about the
the things that he's done off the field and in
that locker room, that's a guy to me that you
throw money at. But it's gotten contentious with he. I'm
being told between his agent and the Cowboys based on
the years that he wants and the number that he wants,
(25:02):
and the Cowboys are exercise exercising their ability right now
to use that franchise tag. And then again they have
the transition tag if they need to use it on
Amory Cooper. I've actually this actually recalls a really good
clip that I think we can actually play real quick
that I think is relevant when you talk about the
contentiousness that exists between the Cowboys and Todd France, who
we go in cancer here we are not we are
(25:24):
going to actually France. France actually told this story a
few years back about how he got Fletcher Coxes deal.
Listen to this. Fletcher cox was a really long process.
It was only basically two years we turned down deals.
I remember they had twenty million dollars on the table
guaranteed for him, and UH coaches were trying to convince
(25:45):
him to take it. Security guy was trying to convince
him to take a teammates whore. I mean, they pulled
out every stop. I had a flight of training camp
to sit down with him to say, think about this.
Who's the only person that makes money on this deal
besides you? And he was like you, I said, and
why am I telling you don't take this deal? But
(26:06):
the team that's writing you a check is telling you
take this deal? And so the light bulb for him
went off. Now he twenty millions a lot of money.
I get it. It's a lot of risk to go
through the season. But he was a first round pick. Ah,
he did have plenty of money saved, so he could
take that risk. And when you weighed the risk versus
reward for what he could potentially get, that was what
(26:27):
we thought he should be getting. It was worth the risk.
Fast forward a year later and he was a sixty
three million dollar guarantee instead of twenty three million dollar
gamble that paid off. So it was a long process.
It was a lot of back and forth. It was contract,
we're done, and we're not talking about anymore. It's back on,
we're not talking about it on and off long, just
a lot of analysis and conversations, back and forth, then
(26:49):
ultimately worked out. I love that your Rainman brain recalls
this situation and how it is interesting that that does
apply to the situation because if I'm Dak, I'm nervous
because right now, especially when you're looking at a potential
coaching change, uh, the possibility of getting tagged and what
that means about my security and you know, I know
(27:09):
we've talked about his insurance policy and his endorsement deals.
I'd be a little nervous, Like when I go into
contract talks with NFL network. I'm sort of always of
the opinion, I don't have network should hear this, But
I'm like, I like the job security, sure, whatever the
deal is, and I you know, I think that with Dak,
I think that the the idea, like of what you're
(27:31):
hearing about, how that he's head into attack. What that's
tells me is there's just not they don't expect anything
to get done in the final month, because if it
doesn't get done in the final month, then he's open
and they're gonna want attack him just so they can
make sure they have control for negotiations. But I would wonder,
and I don't know exactly if you were told this
aspect of it or not, I would wonder if that's
(27:51):
maybe Dak also just being like, you know, this isn't
going anywhere. Let's we got a six and six. We
don't we got four games that we have to focus on,
so we're not going to negotiate in this when it's
not unlike we're focused. That sounds like something he would
That honestly sounds like a perspective where he's like if
somebody comes to him with a contract, often he goes
you know, I don't even want to see any offers
right now. You know, let's just focus on we gotta
(28:12):
knock this and that that does sound like him. I mean,
he's this is the guy who told Pam Oliver earlier
in the season, or the way Pam Oliver relayed in
week two talking about that. You know, he doesn't necessarily
think he deserves X amount of dollars because that's reserved
for guys, for super He's got a very part of
why he works so well here and why I think
Jason Garrett loves him, why I think they fell in
love with him in the pre draft process. He is
(28:32):
that right kind of guy. He's that cliche he's he's
got the mindset they want. He's got such a healthy perspective.
There really isn't there's a confidence about Dak. There's never
been an ego. And that's what I appreciate about it,
because there are a lot of people up there that
would look at the situation and say, look at everything
I've done for you. Your quarterback went down, your backup
quarterback went down, and I took you to a thirteen
(28:52):
and one season my rookie year. I was picked in
the fourth round, thirteen and three, and then when I
when I look at what he's done even with the
Ezeki Elliott suspension, and when I look at the way
that he continues to galvanize his team at six and
six and even last year before they picked up a
Mari Cooper, he didn't have a wide receiver, he didn't
have a solid tight end. He was still getting stuff done.
(29:14):
And so some people will look at this is a
little disrespectful, like, hey, I didn't hold out at camp.
I showed up every day. I haven't said one negative
thing in the press. Stuff hasn't leaked from my camp.
You know, I'm trying to keep the focus on winning games.
That to me, like most people would get you know
that your minds on your money. His his mind has
not been on the money this year. And I think
(29:35):
that that's something that this team has to respect. I
think it's something his teammates respect, or or you know,
you can even look at it and and talk about
that's just an example of his confidence that he potentially
is internally looking at that as all right, I'll go
out there and I'll play and I'll play better in
this price tag is going to go up, and that
he has that confidence to know, I'm confident that I
can play on my rookie deal right here because I
know that I'm going to make exponentially more money having
(29:57):
not done this deal in training camp. And he's a
guy who's stepped out there and has proven it and show.
I mean, the example that I go to from the
last game, and we were talking about it at the time, was,
you know, typically on third and ten, you've got a
guy who's gonna scramble and he's gonna slide or something.
Dac was short of the first town marker. It was
crunch time for them. They didn't end out scoring, kind
(30:18):
of made it irrelevant. But on third and ten, he's
about three yards short and he lowered his head and
you know, bowled over the defensive back to get that
first time. And that's why everyone was celebrating Josh Allen
doing the very same thing in this game against the
Cowboys on Thanksgiving. I'm like, we've been seeing that from
Dak since he got here. That felt like in that moment,
that felt like Dak trying to go like y'all need
(30:39):
to like you need emotion here, something like it was
he wanted to lower the boom and I remember the
very next play was a pastor Randall Cobb and he
caught it, and you know, they come on, let's go,
and then we have you know, Michael Bennett afterwards screaming,
transitioning a little. I guess looking at that, looking at
the emotion, Doc was showing the what Randall cops, you
got these veterans who are doing this. Do you think
(31:00):
they sense there's a lack of intensity there right now
that they're they're needing some those veterans feel we got
a lot of spark under some of these guys that
there isn't that under them right now. I don't know
where it's coming from. And we covered this on our
last pot. I still think it's fascinating. The guy that's
been here for a cup of coffee was so frustrated loudly.
You couldn't understand what he was saying. You just heard
(31:22):
F word every other one and just well, I'm glad
the team is getting bad. And look here's the deal.
This team believes that adversity, like Jerry Jones has told us,
is an opportunity to rewrite a hell of a comeback story.
I hope they listen to this podcast. I hope they
listened to the local radio shows. I hope they listen.
I hope, thank you, our numbers continue to grow. So
(31:44):
it's definitely the guys, a lot of I've got it.
I've got to hope that they take these newspapers and
and everyone mocking this idea that they can somehow turn
the season around and go to the super Bowl, and
they use this as fuel. I hope that we're talking
about something Frint as we get into January. It's just
I just keep going back to the oh and five
against winning teams, their backs for against the Wall, against
(32:06):
the Bills, there was a game they should have stepped
up and been ready out of all of them. It
felt like it should have been Buffalo and they weren't. Yes,
and that's where that was the I think that's why
we all anticipated something from Jerry, because it was like, Okay,
this should have been you know we've seen previously. You know,
heading into the Philly game, there were all these questions
about your coach, and you guys answered him. Heading into
(32:27):
Detroit there was the Tavon Austin thing, and you guys
came out and you know, you busted your tails in
that game and you win the end, it's like, okay,
then only loss. I keep going back to me. The
ugliest loss of the of the season was you kept
it within four points of the Patriots, and then the
Patriots got beat the following week by the Houston Texans.
So if you consider yourself to be a super Bowl
caliber team, you need to be as good as the
(32:49):
Baltimore Ravens, as good as you use in Texans. The
Patriots are. You can penetrate that team. This year they're penetrable.
You you is that a word penetrable? Yeah, because there's impenetrable.
I think impenetrable. Sure, we're going to say it is
they proved that you can beat them, and they kept
this within four points and they didn't get it done. Yeah,
And I think that's the frustrating thing is that, And
(33:10):
then you're killing him because the Cowboys didn't work outside
for that one, and then this week ahead of the
Bears are outside working out. It's just now Buffalo. They
got killed Buffalo. That was beginning to end manhamdle them.
So but it is interesting that we look at those
winning teams they've lost too. They were within That's the
frustrating things that they could have won any of those
(33:30):
other four and they didn't. And that's where it's it's
reflective on the coach. And I do want to bring
up because I know we already mentioned Ron Rivera. You
guys have heard me on this podcast and on Twitter previously.
Like I, I think Chris Peterson makes a ton of sense. Okay,
So that's interesting that you say that because we saw
that he was stepping down he was at Washington, and
(33:54):
that's a concern because it's a step down that makes me, okay,
is he freeing up time or is he he's literally
just he wants to step away. Because if he's want
to step away, then he obviously is canceled. So I
reached out to people that were close to him as
a coach and around the program, and I was told
it is in fact a recharge and reset. I didn't
hear that. I don't know if that is. I know
you've got your heart hung on him, but I do
(34:16):
that to me is just that's it's an interesting world
card theory. If it's not him, then I've got my
new name. Isn't because because I trust Jane's reporting, I'm
a believer in Jane's Later reports. So I'm gonna say
that Chris Peterson's out, and that's gonna make me sad.
So if if Chris Peterson's out, then my new number
one target is Jim Harbaugh. After everything. But see, then
(34:37):
you've got people I said something about her. You please
explain that one to me. I mean, hardball is I
think when you look at what he did at Stanford,
what he did in San Francisco, what he did at
San Diego, I think of San Diego State where he
was before that um. But generally where you look is
he's got the reputation as the guy who comes in
charges a team up for three years and their aunt
(34:57):
and then it's just okay, dude, your bits wearing on
ut now really starting to grade on us. That's I
think that's what the Cowboys need. I think they need
the guy who can get this group charged up for
two to three years. Michigan's not been a great experience.
We can just ignore that one as an outlier and
then we can look at the others. But I mean,
that's a guy who three got you to three straight
(35:18):
NFC Championship games with That's that's a guy who I'd
love the milk chugging cacumant wearing guy up on the
podium every day. That would certainly be fun. But you know,
you know that you know the guy to ask if
the job comes up and we don't ask him. Now,
that's obviously you got to ask me. Jordan list say, hey,
what do you think of Jim? One of Jim Harball's
assistance is on staff here, Greg Jackson, the safety's coach.
(35:40):
I just I'm telling you right now it's feeling and
fans aren't gonna want to hear this. As much as
I've told you that this is as hot as Jerry's been,
that it is inconceivable that he would continue to keep
Jason around this team. He buckle up, folks, I Am
not going to be surprises. You never gave me your
(36:02):
answer that let's say Jason has fired, Let's not even
consider that a possibility. What what is the most likely
do you think college coach promote from within? Retread NFL
coach or hotshot coordinator? Who's the most likely personality type
they bring in retreat NFL coach? So you think they'd
go so like, I mean, let's just think of guys.
Who are you think if Dan I think Ron Rivera
(36:24):
would be interesting. Vera, Okay Rivera or I mean some
of the others, John Fox, Jack del Rio. No, if
Dan Quinn gets fired, no, no, not a fit. But
you think Rivera would make some sense. I think he'd
be interesting. I think he's a player's coach. I think
it'd be interesting. Lots of names to kick around. We'll
(36:45):
have a lot of time to continue to kick those around,
and uh, you know, hopefully there's there's Honestly hopefully there's
a win this week, because I don't think that I
can stand hearing exactly how Jerry's going to spend it
if they don't win. I don't know what creative way
I'm gonna be able to tolerat if things he's going
to spend that. See, this is a team that improved
(37:05):
that it can go on a run, and it started
with Chicago. So that's what we're gonna be talking about.
It's beginning to fill like groundhog Day around here though.
Joining us now to preview this game against the Chicago
Bears is Patrick Finley. He covers the Bears for the
Chicago Sun Times. He's also the host of the Hollis
Intrigue podcast, and you can find him on Twitter at
(37:26):
Patrick Finley. Patrick, thanks so much for joining us. So
first question here, you know, we we see a lot
of you know, grumbling about Jason Garrett here in Dallas.
I know Matt Naggy was you know, seeming deity there
last year. It seems like he's coming under a little
bit of fire now. Has the honeymoon wore off for
Matt Maggie there? Yeah, yeah, I think that's safe to say.
(37:47):
I don't think he's disliked by any stretch, and certainly
the Bears don't have an owner claiming that he will
be a coach somewhere in the NFL next year. But uh, yeah,
a little bit. You know, last year they went twelve
and four, Naggy kind of brought fun back. You know,
they started something called Club Dub in the locker room
after the game, where you know, they bring out a
disco ball in uh the speaker system and dance and
(38:10):
and you know he's throwing touchdown passes to tackles and
stuff like that. There really hasn't been that level of
joy this season, but I would say that, especially compared
to some of the other Chicago coaches, I think his
popularity is still pretty high. What has happened? Why has
the honeymoon and the luster and the shine worn off?
For those of us that have not kept a keen
(38:31):
eye on the Chicago and and what they've been dealing
with this season ahead of this game with the Cowboys,
the quarterback hasn't been very good. That's always a good
place to start. Mr. Rbisky. They expect him to take
a leap in his second year with Naggie, and he
really hasn't. He's been more, uh more of a step back, honestly,
although he has looked better in the last two or
(38:52):
three weeks. They've been inconsistent in the run game. David
Montgomery was their highest draft pick last year because they
traded away at first and a set it in previous deals,
including for Cleio mack and and he hasn't really gotten
going the way that they had hoped he would. The
offense just really hasn't found its identity. It's amazing it's December.
Matt Maggie is an offensive mind. You know, they have
(39:15):
all of these weapons, and we really don't know what
they do best on offense yet. And uh, if it's
December and we're wondering, I'm thinking we will probably make
it to January and still wonder the same thing. You know,
the defense is still, you know, one of the top
units in the league. Is that really the only reason
that the Bears are kind of still in any sort
of contention even it's just the defense has scared him.
(39:36):
And if they were getting anything close to above average
production from the offense this year, this would be a
top contending team in the NFC. Yeah. Yeah, I think
that's a good way to put it. You know, Mr
Bisky said after they beat the Giants two weeks ago
that nineteen points wasn't good enough. They just won the
game nineteen to fourteen. But you know, had they at
that time, had they scored nineteen points in every game
(39:57):
they played, I think they would have been eight in
the three nineteen boys. Actually wouldn't be good enough. And
it shows you how that this offense has been that
that that they are where they are. Like you said,
the defense has been really good. Khalil mac is getting
triple team double teamed on every play, so his numbers
aren't quite what he's used to having, but believe me,
(40:18):
he has an impact on every single down. Uh. They
lost in Team Hicks to an injury and Danny Trevathan
to an injury, actually the same one. They both dislocated
their elbows. Hicks could come back next week, but you
will not see him in that Cowboys game because that
the defense has taken a little bit of a step back.
But you know, they're very, very good. They might not
be dangerous the way they were last year when they
(40:40):
let the league in takeaways, but they're still, you know,
top five, top six in the league. When you look
at this Bears team, the Cowboys are oh and five
against winning teams. Is this is this going to be
a situation where it could derail the Cowboys who are
looking to reset here in the month of December, or
do you think that the Chicago Bears will rise occasion
on Thursday Night football. I think we're looking at the
(41:03):
two of the two teams that are really similar to
each other. You know, since the end of September. I
think both teams are three and five. I think the
three wins that each team has are all against garbage teams.
I know that the Bears three wins during that time
they've been against the Lions twice and the Giants once.
So for us, yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no,
(41:27):
they you know, they're you know, both of their pass
rushes are great. Um. You know you could argue that
Alan Robinson and Mary Cooper or two of the best
doing it or you know, in that category, in that
top tier right now. But yeah, you know if the Bears,
if the Bears would have won every game they were
favored to win this season, they'd be I think nine
and three. So, uh, the expectation has been there, and
(41:50):
the Bears have let their fans down and themselves down
more often than not. Um, could they do derail the Cowboys? Absolutely?
You know they're at home in you know on a Thursday,
the weather is going to be cold, but I mean
it sets up okay for them. But you know, with
the Bears, we've been saying this. You know, I'll believe
it when I see it. You know, we can make
(42:11):
a games for the Bears with you know, winning a
lot of games this year, and they just haven't been
able to do it. Um. So you know, they've lost
the worst teams than the Cowboys. I'm not sure they've
beaten a team quite as good as the Cowboys since
the Vikings in Week four. This literally is going to
be that Spiderman meme, you know, the two teams looking
at each other, because you could make the same argument
(42:31):
now on the weather. Of course, the Cowboys did practice
three days out here and it's a it's a balmy
sixty degrees out so they are ready for the low
forties that they can expect there in Chicago on Thursday night. Patrick, Yeah,
you're just making me mad. You're making me mad, as
I gonna say, the sun is shining right now that
it's uh somewhere in the high thirties, low forties, and uh,
(42:52):
I'd cut off a couple of different body parts to
get to sixty. Well, I gotta wonder. So the last
couple of weeks ago was a vet issues, uh blocking
up ran Dack's been under some pressure with the Bills.
That was kind of just the straight four with the Patriots.
It was there, you know, exotic blitzes and and things
like that. How would you expect the Bears to play this?
The Bears a heavy blitzing team. Are they going to
(43:14):
just be a team that tries to generate it with
the defensive line? What do they generally have how do
they generally approach pressure? They traditionally don't blitz a lot.
You know that they figured it with Khalil Mac. They
might not talk to but Chuck, But Chuck Pogano has
been more aggressive than Vic Fanchio ever was in You
guys know this. I mean, what makes Vic fanco really
good was masking coverage and rushing for Pogano likes to
(43:37):
bring an inside linebacker or too. In fact, if you
look at the last drive of the Thanksgiving game against
the Cowboys or against the Lions, when the Lions were
actually threatening, they were like at the seven going in
um on third down they did a double mug blitz
and brought to way inside linebackers. And then on fourth
down they did the same thing. So that's not to
(43:57):
say that they will do it regularly against the Cowboys.
It is in their arsenal. In general, I wouldn't expect
too many exotics. You know, maybe a nickelback blitzing you know,
once or twice. But uh, you know, anytime you've got
Khalil Mack, I don't think you need to put up
too much window addressing. So is this just like any
other game for any other team, and that it's gonna
come down to the quarterback? I mean, is this going
(44:17):
to be as simple as if Mitch Drubisky shows up,
the Bears got a good shot. If he doesn't, then
it's gonna be Dallas. Yeah. I mean he's coming off
his best game, um, which you know against the Lions.
Might not be saying a whole heck of a lot,
but you know, this is a guy who a month
ago was just absolutely lost in the woods. And uh,
you know, the Bears still have legitimate questions about whether
he's going to be their quarterback going forward beyond this season. Um.
(44:41):
You know, he's looking to build on this. He's a
guy who confidence matters with him. And you know I
wrote this earlier this week. This is really the first
time all year that he's been able to draw confidence
the old fashioned way from actually having a really good game. Um.
And and we'll see how that helps him. You know,
can the Bears without or in without Mitch playing well,
(45:02):
maybe if they get a takeaway for a touchdown something
like that, but it would take a pretty extraordinary circumstance.
You find yourself in the unique position of being in Chicago,
where you've covered a few coaching changes yourself up there,
namely the recent one when John Fox going with the younger,
sexier candidate and Matt Maaggie. How hard is that to
make that that transition? And for the Cowboys fans out
(45:23):
there that are calling for Jason Garrett's head, perhaps you
can put in perspective change doesn't always equate into success.
Perhaps it doesn't. And you know, as as a reporter,
and I'm sure you guys feel the same way. You know,
the day that somebody gets fired and their entire staff's
got to leave and all of their kids have to,
you know, withdraw from school and go somewhere else, and
(45:45):
and they've got to pack up their house and and
move is not a joyous day. And I've always had
a problem with fans who celebrate it as though they've
won something, because they most certainly have and it's a
sad day all around. You know, you said it, you know,
because you're making a change doesn't guarantee improvement. You know,
I was here from Mark Tressman. You know, he got
fired after the second season that was completely out of control. Uh,
(46:07):
you know, Brandon Marshall was saying and doing stuff and
Martellis Bennett and it was a mess. And so they
brought in John Fox trying to fix that specific problem,
which was to kind of put together a more professional
locker room. And they did that and then Fox Foxes
teams didn't score very well. Um, so then they switched
the offensive guy. And you know, it's Murphy's law, It's
it's the guy you hire is going to be a
(46:30):
d degrees different than the guy you had. And I
think you know, we've seen the Bears do that twice,
where they went from an offensive guy to a defensive
guy back to an offensive guy. Uh. It's not it
doesn't guarantee success by any stretch. Um, but I do
think that there is a feeling in the building when
you know it's inevitable. Uh. That is a very strange
(46:50):
place to play or to be. And to me, what's
so interesting about the Cowboys is, you know, this coaching
change is a possibility, but shoot, they're winning their division
and we can make the playoffs too. I I don't
know how many teams on the planet how that sort
of duality going on at the exaction time. That's why
I keep telling people it is a possibility. I just
refused to count Jason Garrett out next year having covered
(47:13):
this team as long as I have, so you can't
do it. But Patrick Finley does great work for the
Chicago Sun Times covering the Bears. You can check them
out on Twitter at Patrick Fhiley. Thanks so much, Patrick.
We really appreciate your insight. Hey, thank you, guys. I
appreciate it. Alright. Well, we played that quote for you
earlier today where Dak Prescott said talk is cheap, and uh,
you know, you can see what a great lady leader
Dak Prescott is because all of his teammates really took
(47:35):
talk is cheap to heart. And you know, we like
to bring you locker room audio often. There just really
wasn't anybody talking today. And it wasn't, to be fair,
it was it's a Tuesday, but it's a Friday for them,
and that's always a little scant, but there was there
was really nobody wanting to chat with us today. Well,
you've got to let the play on the field do
the talking. And you know the reason why I continue
(47:55):
to say that there is a fighting chance for this team,
it's the guy that we're talking about a potential franchise
tag Dak Prescott, the guy who's done everything that you've
possibly wanted him to do. I believe this team goes
as he goes, and he seems as confident as I've
seen him with his back against the wall. So we'll
see what these cowboys do you on Thursday. And I said,
(48:17):
what a weird couple of weeks it's been around the
Star in frescale. It has indeed, and we will actually
talk to you one more time again before Thursday. We'll
actually have a good preview episode for you that will
release on Thursday as well, so you get us on
back to back days this week. It's gonna be exciting.
And we've got Thursday date night at Olive Garden. He
(48:37):
always gets me breadsticks.
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